Sehr gut, sehr gut, sehr gut! Sehr gut? WISO Steuer ist sehr gut. Das sagen ganz viele. Cool! Wer sagt das? Stiftung Warentest, Computerbild, Fokus Money, Chip, Finanztipp. Such dir was aus. Mega! Aber das ist doch bestimmt kompliziert. Nö! Einfach Foto von der Lohnsteuerbescheinigung machen und fertig. Klingt sehr gut. Ist sehr gut. Hol dir dein Geld zurück mit WISO Steuer. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by PayPal. You know a clutch move when you see one. A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal. Well, imagine if your wallet could pull off moves like that. That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Viater, and save offers before you check out. Earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points. Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers. Start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewardsterms. Credit card points subject to issuers' terms and conditions. Podcast live here on Netflix. Rob Mahoney is with me. We're coming off Game 3, Spurs-Knicks. Wanted to mention you can hear Rob on the Prestige TV podcast.
You can hear him on the Ringer NBA Show as well, on Group Chat. Uh, I have new rewatchables that went up actually tonight. It's From Hell Month, Rob, and we did Single White Female. Not sure where you stand on that movie.
I'm anti Single White Female as a concept. You know, the impersonation into potential murder. I can't say I'm for it.
Well, we loved it and we went over 2 hours talking about it. Okay. Game 3, which I think if the Knicks lost, we were gonna dub the Trump game. And yet after watching, watching, uh, what the Spurs did today, I gotta say I have no dog in this race. I'm so impressed by the Spurs. They, I actually thought that there was a real possibility they were gonna do this today 'cause there was so many good signs from the first two games. This is a team with a lot of pride, a lot of, lot of chutzpah. It's the second youngest Finals team we've ever had. The first youngest Finals team came back from 0-2 and won in the '77 Finals. They showed them in the huddle before the game, Rob, and They seem loose, they're doing their dancing stuff. And it, and it was like just unintimidated by the moment. Meanwhile, every single celebrity on the planet is there. Even though this turned into a rock fight, I was wildly impressed with them. So let's start there. What are your Spurs thoughts coming outta the gate?
I also thought they could win this one. I mean, games 1 and 2 were so tight. It was a classic case of this is the NBA Finals, so there are huge takeaways from very, very slim margins. The, the turnover at the end of Game 2 was catastrophic. Like, that could have been a career-altering play. It could still be a series-altering play. We'll see how it all shakes out. But they were there, that close to begin with. They were doing enough positively to be super competitive over the first 2. And I thought in this one in particular came out with a lot of clarity in their offensive game plan in terms of, like, the Knicks have been playing incredible defense, but even the best defensive game plans come at a cost. Like, you're giving up something somewhere. And you could see, I would say with Castle and Fox specifically, they knew the weak side read before it even really sprang open. And so that gave me a lot of confidence that like, okay, this team knows what they're doing. The moment I shook up a little bit is that end of second quarter Knicks resurgence where I was like, oh no, is, is it just going to be like this where New York scores at the end of every like late clock opportunity where they have responses for every conceivable run?
That's just who they've been in these playoffs. Fortunately for the Spurs, they got, I mean, absolutely saved by a late Stephon Castle 3. And De'Aaron Fox going one-on-one against OG Anunoby, which is like playing tug-of-war with a Doberman. Like, I, I, I don't, I want no part of that matchup or anything related to it.
Yeah. The, it turned into a rock fight near the end and I couldn't tell if it was the tension of the crowd and the energy of the building and just how long the night was, you know, and everybody taking so long to get in there and every piece of that, how hard everyone was playing. But it felt like neither team could get any shot they really— the Spurs were starting plays with 6 seconds left, 45 seconds, 45 feet from the basket. You mentioned there were the— I wrote down that the Castle lucky bailout 3 was in my notes. Monster block. That was after 2 San Antonio blocks. Brunson scores. Mm-hmm. And it feels like, oh my God, this is— we've been here before with the Knicks. And Brunson, I mean Castle bails him out there. And then Fox. So I texted you with 8, 8 minutes left. And I asked you, do we see Fox again? 'Cause he had come out and they were playing Harper with Castle. I think they were playing Bassau and Champagny and Wemby. Yeah. And I was 50/50 whether we'd see Fox again. He wasn't, seemed like he, he just has lost confidence in his 3.
Wasn't really attacking the basket like he usually does. And I didn't know if we'd see him again, but we saw him again and then he made the biggest shot of the game.
Never found confidence in the 3 though. And for a moment I thought the defining play of him coming back was that possession where he passed up an open 3 to drive into OG and fall over. And it was like, oh, like that was where you could feel some of the tension. You could feel some of the potential Spurs implosion. But not only did he come up with that huge shot, he had like a, a possession saving block on KAT during that one, like Knicks possession that wouldn't end. And they kept maybe, maybe fouling, maybe blocking KAT, who's to say? And then also I thought he had some really good driving kicks too. Stuff, for shots that just didn't fall. Like some of the cleanest looks the Spurs ended up getting down the stretch.
Yeah.
Were triggered by De'Aaron Fox of all people.
There's some weird Spurs coaching stuff still that I don't really totally understand. But the thing I love that they did today, they staggered the timeouts. I'm almost positive Wemby didn't come out of the fourth quarter and there was, I think at least two challenges. There was a timeout that he took right after a challenge.
Yeah.
And I think he was just trying to use the timeouts So he never had to take Wemby out. And that fourth quarter felt like it went on for 45 minutes. Wemby ended up finishing with the 32, 8, and 6 with the 3 blocks. And I, I thought seemed pretty fresh down the stretch. Now the Knicks in the second half, I, I think they had at least 10 offensive rebounds. 'Cause there was a, for the first like hour of this game, each team only had one offensive rebound 'cause everything was going in. Yeah. And then it turned into more of a rock fight and the Knicks started to really hurt them. But I thought Wemby seemed a lot more fresh down the stretch. I still think fundamentally the fact that the, the Spurs had that pad, really, they were always up 6, 8, 5, 7, 10, 6. And so when their offense really went sideways, it was okay. I wonder what happens in a Game 4 if this is a 2-point game with 3 minutes left. I still don't really know what the Spurs play is in that situation. Like, what do you see from them?
When it gets really slow down, half court, crowd standing, what's their play? Because we know what it is for the Knicks.
I would say some of the most successful stuff for them to just dial up has been like pretty simple, like staggered screens, Wemby and a second screener, and Castle or Fox can come off of that action. And, and you'll see like multiple Knicks when that happens end up gravitating toward Wemby and then like Devin Vassell will be wide open in the corner on the wing. So you can get like good action out of that. And frankly, I think it's like a little cleaner for them than some of the other stuff that they try to draw up. Or I mean, the possession that led to that Stephon Castle bailout 3 was just, they were just trying to run a handoff with Victor Wembanyama and he got jammed up. I, I, this was not like the best cat game or the most sterling cat game, but I thought he did as well challenging Wemby's jumper. Yeah. Like in this one than maybe from anyone I've ever seen defend Victor Wembanyama. How many possessions do we see, see Wemby leave his feet? And have to just pass out to somebody 'cause he couldn't get the shot off over Cat.
And so they were able to jam him up in a way that I don't think you can just run iso for Wemby or dribble handoff for Wemby. I think it has to be slightly more complicated than that.
Which is what happened at least 3 times down the stretch where it seemed like he just had the ball with 30 feet from the basket. Yeah. Under 10 seconds left, figure it out. And I don't really think he's that kind of player. Castle, you know, who, who, Was huge. Who answered the usage rate critics, myself included, in the first half. Yeah, he was like 7 for 8, but he was attacking the basket. And I wrote that in my notes in the first half, like sometimes this'll happen with players when they're awesome early. This always used to be the Celtics with Marcus Smart. If Marcus Smart was awesome in the first quarter, it's like, ah, are we gonna pay for that later? Maybe so. When he, when he is taking 10 field goals in the fourth quarter, 'cause he was hot 2 hours ago. But Castle, I thought for the most part played, played a much smarter game than I thought he played in Game 2. I still think he has the ball just more than I want if I'm a Spurs fan. When you have these other 2 point guards that have great handles and are real point guards, but this is how they do it.
Well, how, how do you want it to shake out then? Because our confidence was wavering in De'Aaron Fox at points in this game. We were just talking about how you can't just give the ball to Victor Wembanyama 30 feet from the basket. I guess it's Dylan Harper by default that you want a little bit more of.
Who wasn't perfect today, even though I thought he swung the game in the second quarter. Thought in the second half he got a little, I got this-y and had a couple like reckless drives. I think he finished with 13, but his rebounding, I mean, he does so many good things. I feel one of the things I noticed, I've noticed this when I used to play pickup, when lefties guard other lefties, they kind of, it's like they have the kryptonite for the other lefty because they know how the lefty moves. And I, I think with Harper, when he defends Brunson, he, he just seems really comfortable on him. And I wonder if we're gonna see that more, because Castle has done a good job on him too. But, uh, I, I— how many minutes did Harper play today? I— to me, he has to be— so he was 32. Yeah, 32 seems to be where they've landed with him. Um, I'll be interested to see if they bump that at any point, because they tried Carter-Bryan out. He came out guns blazing. He was guarding KAT, which I wanted to see. Made a 3 and then all of a sudden turned into a human bowling ball.
So he only played 3 minutes.
The guns were always blazing with Carter-Bryant. Like, he really only has the one gear.
Carnett played 9 minutes, -3, which is really good for him. 5 rebounds. And Keldon Johnson, they tried to get going. He was +14. He was at least, yeah, being physical. But Harper is really, I think, the only bench guy they can trust. And then We didn't even mention this yet, and we should, because I can just tell you from all the text fans I was getting from my Knicks fan friends, furious about the officiating, like asking me, knowing I'm a neutral observer, like, are you watching this? Are you seeing this? I thought Wemby throwing Brunson down was bad. I couldn't believe they didn't call that. It's worth mentioning that every time the Knicks challenge a call, it's in their favor because it was a bad call. So that's definitely happened. But for the most part, I thought it was pretty even. I don't— what did you think?
I thought this was yet another incredibly physical game. And if you're going to point at any game in the series where the Knicks got a raw deal officiating-wise, I would say it's Game 2. This one, other than the Wemby shove on Jalen Brunson, I don't, I don't remember a ton of plays that were incredibly egregious. I'm sure if we go back with the microscope that we can find some, but I thought a lot of people were being held and shoved and pushed basically at all times. Yeah, that's just kind of the game it was.
My buddy Jim Grady, who I've known since I was 15 years old, NBA fucking sucks. The refs are doing everything in their power for the Spurs. Wouldn't be throwing elbows. This is annoying. Just really like this was every Knick fan I know is sending me some variation of the same thing. They did go into the penalty almost immediately in the fourth quarter. Yeah. Like there was one moment they had 5 fouls. And the Spurs had zero. And if that had been the Celtics, I would've been losing my mind.
But, but so much of that was frustration too. Like the Knicks, they came out in the fourth quarter. I mean, really for most of the second half, their offense, everything was so difficult. The Spurs were picking up Brunson really high. They were making him work every step of the way. And you could just tell, not even by, you know, like Brunson's shooting efficiency, which is fine, like his scoring was fine. It's more about how many dribbles, how many moves, how much did it tax him just to create literally anything? And he has to do so much for the Knicks.
Yeah, when he came out, so that was the second, they had a 42-point second quarter, the Knicks, but he comes out and it, it's 33-22 after the first quarter. But Alvarado and Clarkson coming together shift the energy and it's a 2-point game. And I thought they were really effective. Yes. And they got the crowd into it in a different way. And as you said, really Brunson-centric, which is usually everybody's least favorite version of the Knicks. And not to blame him, but it was just, it was just a lot of dribbling. Yeah. The fourth quarter was different. I didn't feel like it was as Brunson-centric. I just thought the Spurs played, I thought the level they went to defensively, and if you're gonna complain about the refs, I get it. I would do the same thing if it was Celtics. But just know that the reason the Spurs won that game was their defense was outta control. Yeah. The second half, I thought It went higher and higher and higher, and it was even like they were, they were trapping Towns with 2 guys, getting over to the corner guy, getting over to the corner pass to the other side.
Like, it was fucking crazy to watch. So I think that's fair, right? The defense won the game.
Okay. Completely connected, completely on a string. And I, I'll say this too for the Spurs, like, it's not a coincidence that Julian Champagny is not on the floor for critical stretches of the 4th quarter. He's like the closest thing that Jalen Brunson has to a target out there. Yeah, he, I thought even he did fine. And, and really across the board, the Spurs in switches were so competitive and so physical with Brunson where, yeah, he's gonna get his points and like Jalen Brunson has become one of the most inevitable scorers in the league. But they did such a great job with the high pickup point, with the constant pressure, just wearing down, wearing down, not just him, but the flow of the offense. And the Knicks are better than pretty much anybody at continuing to find stuff late in the clock.. But if you just make 'em pull rabbits out of the hat over and over and over, like eventually they're gonna come up empty.
Yeah. You, after the second quarter, you have OG and Hart have 30 points combined. They're 10 for 12. Yeah. The Knicks are up 7 and it felt like they only played well for like 5 minutes. And I'm at halftime going, holy shit. Like, this is gonna be a sweep. 'Cause there's, I was talking to somebody today who mentioned the Spurs-Lakers 2001. Where first 2 games are in, in San Antonio, I think. Really close games. Spurs lost both of them. And then in the last 2 games, the Lakers just descended and pummeled them and kicked their ass. And the question is like, are we going this way or are we going, you know, the '77 Blazers comeback way? I did a thing on my pod yesterday about when a series flips, usually there's some sort of trigger for the flip. What was the trigger tonight for you? What, what changed other than the Spurs just actually took care of, of business in the fourth quarter? Did you feel like something was different about the game?
I think a lot of it was the Spurs offense. I think it, it wasn't constant, and I don't think the Spurs are gonna be that kind of team in the series at any point. The Knicks defense is too good. The Spurs are still too young and a little bit imprecise, but I thought they did a great job. Really establishing and looking for and being patient with getting Wemby around the basket early, with being a little bit more deliberate as far as what the Knicks were giving up on the weak side, like we mentioned earlier. And then also, like, I, there were just moments in this game where for the first time all series, it felt like the Knicks defense was actually behind in its rotation, where the Spurs were getting ahead of it and you could tell the Knicks were just like a step or an entire rotation behind and guys were getting pretty clean, wide open shots because of the Spurs ball movement. That felt really new. And, and that's the kind of thing where sometimes over the course of a series, you just pick up on the patterns, right? Of like how teams are defending, how they're rotating, what they're giving up.
I think the Spurs might be a little more in tune with that right now, but even that stuff can change pretty quickly.
I agree with everything you said. I would add this. It felt like after playing this Nick style for 2 games, they did a much better job on the fast break transition stuff tonight. Mm-hmm. That they just were more ready for it. It felt like they were back and it just felt like the Knicks, even though the game was more high scoring, it felt like the, the shots and the points the Knicks were getting were just kind of harder shots. Like, like Anunoby and Hart, Hart, they were basically allowing to shoot. If I'm in the Spurs and I'm looking at that second half especially, I thought they missed a lot of wide open shots. I don't know what the, what were they at, 12 for 36 from 12 for 34 from 3, the Spurs. How many of those were contested? Like Harper missed, I don't know how many, how many hard 3s did Harper take? He took 1 for 8, right? Yeah. Fox was 0 for 5. So it's 13 3s. I bet 12 of those were wide open.
And some of the passes too. Like they're giving all 3 of those guards a lot of room to fire if they want to.
Yeah. So if I'm the Spurs, I'm like, dude, we won that game and we didn't, we didn't even Hit all the open threes we had. Yeah. We keep, we actually have a level to go higher than the level we played. If I'm the Knicks, I'm looking at the officiating and maybe that with the, from a Brunson standpoint, so he was 35 minutes, but how do I not put as much miles on him during a game? Mm-hmm. I mean, part of it was his fault because when Castle, with that play reviewed when he knocked Brunson over, which was not a flagrant, but Castle really, or Branson really tried to sell it and he kind of almost hurt himself with the exaggerated flop. Like he flew back so hard, he like landed on his tailbone. I was like, oh my God, this could be our first semi-flop injury. Not that Castle didn't foul him. But I think they have to figure that piece out. Let's talk about the crowd and the Trump stuff. So I had, I knew a bunch of people out there. They said definitely loud, crazy, especially end of the second quarter. And then some quiet moments too.
There's a lot of people at that game that probably, that might've been one of their few games of the year. Sure. Because of the prices, which I think we saw happen during the Warriors stretch as we hit the Curry era. You've, that incredible old Warriors crowd would kind of shift. Yeah. And was still really good, but not as good.
They went from the, you know, the Oracle Warriors to the VC Warriors pretty quickly. They pretty quickly, very different energy.
Yeah, so the crowd seemed like it was good, but it wasn't— I, I didn't think the Spurs were affected. And this was one of the things I said last night, like, the OKC crowd where it's just, it's at this for 3 hours. Like, you're not gonna beat that from a, from a loud standpoint. So atmosphere was great, but to me, the Spurs, even though they're young, answered the questions. Like, we like it, we're fine, we're here.
And if anyone looked tense out of the gate, I would say it was the Knicks with some of the early turnovers. Totally. Like, they took a minute to settle in and they certainly did. But the Spurs didn't miss a beat. Like they, they seemed ready to compete. They seemed ready for it. Were not daunted by, you know, Celebrity Row, all the pageantry with President Trump there. Like I gotta say, the getting booed so loudly mid national anthem when they put Trump on the jumbotron, I've never seen it before. I mean, God bless you MSG. Come on. We're just, we're, we're really doing it.
So the, the Knicks fans in general. I think felt like they were invincible after Game 2, and this was, this was the unnatural act that could flip the game. Not that Trump was going as much as the circus that comes with that. Yeah. And people having to get there hours and hours before the game and, you know, just basically disrupting the entire process of a finals game, which is usually pretty chaotic anyway. We've both been to a bunch of finals, like it's abnormal. It's, you have to get there super early. Everything's tougher. All the security stuff is, is way bigger. Like the warmups, there's a million people on the court. It already feels like a circus. So that definitely added in. I was, I did wonder if that was gonna affect the flow of the game. What it seemed like to me, which you, you said earlier, was like the Knicks, I don't think they seemed nervous, but they had so much adrenaline. They almost didn't look like the Knicks for like the first quarter. Yeah. Like they just seemed kind of, kind of overcharged and then they settled down.
But probably more out of character moments within this game for them than at any point in this series so far. And so if you're thinking that this could be a sea change moment for the Spurs, that would be the proof of it right there, that you finally kind of rattled this seemingly unrattleable team.
Well, they know, they know they have 6 guys they can trust. They have figured out this Wemby timeout strategy to kind of keep him on the floor a little bit more when it actually matters. They know they're getting wide open threes. So I think they, now they're just gonna compa— and they used, they did some stuff with Towns that I thought was different than what they did the first two games. Like they did use Castle on him. Yep. They tried Bryan on him a couple times. They tried different people. They trapped him. They, it seemed to me like they kept trying to mix things up on him so that he never felt really comfortable. The Bridges thing was huge for them though, because he got the two fouls almost immediately. Never got going. 28 minutes, 2 points. And that was their best, you know, their best shooter. Which game was that? Game 1 or Game 2? He had that one breakout game.
I think he was, he was great in Game 2 though, too, as well though, like playing with the bench and gave them some, a really critical lift in that one. Like they need Mikael Bridges. It's, I know that's a pretty straightforward thing to say, but particularly during those stretches where Brunson and or Towns are out, he's one of their most reliable ball handlers. It can't all be José Alvarado and Somehow Jordan Clarkson, like I, I'm still right shocked that we got honest to goodness positive Jordan Clarkson minutes in the NBA Finals. LeBron James couldn't get that out of him in the Finals, yet here the Knicks are. I wouldn't bet on that happening again. Like they need Mikael in those stretches more than anything to be a ball handler, to be a shooter, to be a facilitator for their offense too.
Two get, two days from now we're playing again. Wednesday, who does that help more?
I don't know. I, do you see a tilting advantage just based on that timeline? I feel like that's a pretty neutral one.
The only thing I would say is the Wemby piece. Just from what we saw in the last series with the, when there was the one day rest between the games, like he had a couple games in that OKC series, which were just strange where he just seemed, yeah, like he had concrete sneakers on. I, I, I thought he was incredible. I mean, we probably should have talked about him earlier than just now. I thought he was really good tonight. Yes. Like he was, 'cause the, the Knicks now know not to challenge him on certain things. So whatever, he had 3 blocks, but he, they're just so aware of him at all times. And I thought he was prowling. They really figured out a way to kind of unleash him all over the place. They were hiding him on different guys. I think they learned their lesson with trying not to put him out 25 feet from the basket on Towns too much. And then offensively, he was near the basket in the first 3 quarters way more than, than he used to be. So I thought he actually could have had even more than 32 points.
He missed— they had the 3 taken away. He missed a couple shots around that. That easily could have been a 40-point game for him.
I think not only the timeout stuff you mentioned in terms of just finding ways to keep him on the floor for longer stretches, but finding ways to decrease how much he has to do all the time. Turned out to be really important. Like, you saw the Spurs mixing a little zone. You saw him, like, experiment, which is like, what happens if we have Wemby on Landry Shamet in the corner? Mikal Bridges in the corner? OG Anunoby in the corner? How do we keep him out of the action? And then on offense, how do we make it so that when he goes to set a screen, he doesn't have to go from the block all the way up to half court every single time to set a high ball screen because Stephon Castle's having a hard time getting it across the line or whatever? Like, Those are little things, but when you pile 'em up over 40 minutes, all of a sudden you're fresher in the fourth quarter. All of a sudden he has more to give you down the stretch and he, he can be more assertive getting to the basket over and over and over because you make these other parts of his life a little bit easier.
Brunson, 83 points, 81 shots in 3 games.
It's pretty fucking good. Yeah, I, I did find myself a little surprised by KAT has been awesome, but the prevalence of Karl-Anthony Towns should be the Finals MVP if the series ended today, coming off of 1 and 2. I get it. I understand the logic. I just don't know how we fall into it so soon after, like, the Andre Iguodala Steph stuff, where it's like, do you, do you reward the guy who drafts off the attention, or do you reward the guy who creates the attention? And Jalen Brunson draws everyone's eyes. Everyone's focus when he is on the floor. Like he's scoring this much despite being clearly the number one item in the scouting report and getting all of the defensive focus, but also the traps that we've seen throughout this series. Like he, I don't know how he does this frankly. And I, I remain just shocked and amazed at how impressive he is night to night.
You are preaching to the choir, Rob. I'm glad on, on two topics. One, I look, I know we all have to make content. We all have to come up with angles and do topics. We cannot have segments about who's the Finals MVP after 2 games in a 4, in a game where you have to win 4 to win the series. Not to mention the series might extend past 4 games.
Mm-hmm.
I'm just, it's unacceptable. You could say, wow, Towns is playing like a Finals MVP, but yeah, you just can't do it. So that's one thing. Stop. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to engage with it. Stop. Second, what you just said about Brunson and the Curry-Iguodala thing is one of my passion points in life. The best player should always win Finals MVP unless something fucking crazy happened. Yeah. Right. If like Curry-Iguodala is a good example and I think Curry should have won it either way, but it's like, yeah. All they're doing is worrying about him for 6 games. There's all of these positive effects that just come from having this guy that's this good out there. You have to be the MVP. I felt the same way about Tatum 2 years ago. Yeah. Brown took it, but Tatum did the most on the Celtics. Like he should have won Finals MVP. He was the best guy in the deciding game and had the biggest responsibility. And for some, you know, the dumbest was when Parker won in '07. I, I think that one actually makes me madder than Iguodala. Where Duncan's just the best guy.
He's the reason they won the title. He's the reason they've— and, but Parker had a hot series against a, a crappy Finals team and it's like our Finals MVP is Tony Parker. It's like Tim Duncan's the most important guy in the league. What are we doing?
That's probably some offense-defense bias too with, you know, like the guard who's driving a lot of stuff naturally gets a lot of attention as those things go. Yeah. So there's, there's a lot in play with Tony Parker for sure.
Yeah. Let's, let's settle it now. Brunson and Wemby are the two best guys in this series. Yeah. And whoever wins, they should win the MVP.
I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Karl Towns, I'm not trying to drag KAT through the mud. He's been amazing. Thought he was great defensively again today, despite Wemby getting some impressive numbers. I don't think he has scored a basket in the fourth quarter for the entire series yet.
It's like, is that true?
He certainly, certainly scoreless in the fourth tonight, and I believe he was in games 1 and 2 as well.
Well, ironically, Finals MVP has not moved. Brunson and Wemby are the two favorites. Sprints, it's even for the series itself. The Knicks are now -184 on FanDuel. So Game 4, Wednesday night, which was gonna be exciting either way. It was either gonna be the classic, somebody's up 2-1. Game 4s are always amazing. Mm-hmm. They're usually my favorite game of the series unless there's a Game 7. So we either had the Knicks trying to win their first Finals in 53 years, or we have this awesome setup for Game 4. If you had to guess the biggest tweak one of the two teams is gonna make, what is it? Because I'd probably leaning toward the Knicks side on, on the tweak.
I don't know that we're gonna see any dramatic tweaks though.
Like I, you think we're in, these are our cards.
I think these are mostly the cards. I, I think the lineups are gonna remain the same. I think the coverages and the matchups are gonna remain mostly the same. It's gonna be little stuff, right? It's gonna be like, Like one little tweak in this game that I thought made a big difference was in the first quarter, especially when Wemby would go up to set ball screens, he would actually set a screen versus doing his little like, I'm gonna hold out my hands and sort of hip check you maneuver. And it turns out making contact on a screen really helps. And then all of a sudden the Spurs, the guards are getting downhill and it's driving the entire offense. So there's gonna be stuff like that, right? Like little things that pop on film in that regard. I would think for the Knicks specifically, it is How, how do you create some airspace for KAT during those stretches where the offense gums up? How do you make it so, I mean, this is, this is what's hard when you want to give the ball to Towns and run all this off-ball action that's been working so well for the Knicks in these playoffs.
If the defense and the Spurs are good enough to do this, can somehow batten down all the hatches and keep all those guys under wraps, you're just like bleeding clock as he stands there with the ball sometimes. And so it's like, how do you get a little more free and clear movement where there's something popping up and you're not driving all of those possessions into 20-plus seconds on the shot clock?
Yeah, that makes sense. I would say Shamet, 23 minutes tonight, was a -20, was 1 for 8, 1 for 7 from 3. Probably a quicker trigger for him next time would be— I was really surprised Bridges didn't play more in the fourth quarter. And I thought, I actually thought he had 5 fouls. Yeah. And I was texting with Knicks fan friend of mine who said he had 5, and I looked it up and he had 4 and he finished with 4. But, uh, I don't know. It's, I think, right. I think Game 4 to me is a ride with our guys game. This is a, all, all 5 of those guys are gonna be at 40 or around 40 minutes with, and then the bench will fill in the rest. But I think that's, that would be my prediction with the, especially 2 days off until the Saturday game.
I think it makes total sense to ride with your guys at this point. I would just argue that Landry Shamet is one of their guys. Like he, he's, he's a hero of New York. He's earned the right to be on the floor in these moments. And yeah, he, I, I wouldn't say this was his best game by any stretch, but they do need his gravity. They do need the attention that he draws. McHale can do a lot of those things too. And so if that's the trade-off, yeah, I agree. It, it can be a little steep sometimes.
So what would you tell the Knicks fans right now who were up 2-nothing in the Finals, coming off a miracle win in Game 2 with an emotional Game 3 that was the hardest ticket probably in the history of the NBA, I'm guessing. And now it's 2-1 and Game 4 is on Wednesday and all those old skeletons are starting to pop out of the poltergeist pool again. What, what would be, how would you calm them down?
I would tell the Knicks, not that they need this reassurance, but in any game I expect, in any close game, I expect them to win. Like, I expect Jalen Brunson to pull every like crazy one-footed fadeaway that he needs to make in order to keep these games competitive. OG Anunoby had a crazy corner 3 to trim this thing to winnable late. The Spurs needed both the Castle jumper and the Fox jumper just to win this one. Yes, the margins are thin. Yes, crazy things can happen under those circumstances, but every indicator says this is a very, very close clutch time kind of series, and the Knicks are the clutch time kings of these playoffs. So what, what reason would we have to doubt them even after a game like this?
That's fair. And if I'm the Spurs, if I, my Spurs fans, I know a few of them too. The series should be 1.5 to 1.5.
I don't think it works that way.
Well, it doesn't. So you lo— you lost the half. You're down 2-1.
Yeah.
You were up double figures in all 3 games. You had the lead in the last 2 minutes of all 3 games. Mm-hmm. Your, your young team actually kind of came through with some big moments and ramped up the defense in a really, really special way in the second half and feels like it's getting better and is now used to the speed. Of the Knicks and the Finals and just all of it. And seems like a, just in a better place than they were in Game 1 when they just seem like, whoa, whoa, the Finals is fast. Wow, look at this. I thought they handled the speed the right way today. So I'm this person, I'm like, fuck it, man. We have 5 and 7 at home, right? We just need to get back to 7 somehow. We just need to win 2 of the next 3 and then 7's at our house.
We just, we need a 2-2, all road wins going into a Game 5. Like that's all we can hope for at this point.
I wonder if that's ever happened. I would hope. Oh, I guess that's happened in '77. 'Cause that's what, oh no. Yeah, that's what happened in '77. Portland won the second 2. Oh no, that was in Portland though. Yeah, no, I don't think that's, I don't think that would ever have happened.
Seems pretty unlikely. I mean, there've been plenty of like 0-2 series that have flipped and reversed course in the NBA Finals. Like Mikael Bridges has been a part of one of them. You know, the, the Mavs did it against the Heat in '06. They were up 2-0 and blew that series. So it's like it has happened, but usually you're home for the first part. Exactly. That's the thing. It's, it's the all road wins for now 3 and potentially 4 games. But even that's getting ahead of ourselves.
So I, I've been saying this all playoffs, Rob, I don't, I don't think home court matters like it used to, even though it's fun to go to the games. Even this home court, even Mariska Hargitay's home court, even when you have Larry David sitting next to Bob Kraft and Ari Emanuel and Mark Shapiro, and then you have, what do you have, Chalamet next to Spike Lee with Safdie. Yeah, this was, this was a real like BS Pod rewatchables murder. Tina Fey was there. Yeah, there, there was incredible Tina Fey's next to Tracy Morgan. I was, I thought for sure we'd get Lorne Michaels tonight.
Maybe for Game 4.
I saw Irving Azoff under the basket. It was like all the OGs and the new, you know, Dolan, who I think usually watches from the stands. Mm-hmm. But if Trump's like, I'm coming, it's the president. Yeah. You kind of can't say no. Um, so now he's in a suite and I'm sure he's like, oh, I would've had better luck if I was in my seats.
But getting cucked in your own building to go sit with Donald Trump is, is tough.
It is tough. Um, But I think from, from the home court standpoint, I don't know what's different about it. I always felt like when I was growing up and especially like being a Celtic fan and some of the games we had, like, I just felt like if it was a must-win game, we were winning.
Yeah.
And we would, we could affect the refs. It just, you would have the momentum. It was just the way it went. And the stats back it up. Like for years and years it was 90, 95%. And now we see all this time, you just go into somebody else's house and you can win whenever you want. I don't really understand it.
I don't, I don't know what is tilted other than clearly there's just like a lot of great competitive balance and talent around the league, but why that would explain the shift in home court advantage, I don't exactly know. Maybe it is just like travel has improved the most.
Is it the 3-pointers?
I think the 3s help, but this didn't feel like a game that was swung by Spurs hot shooting, you know?
No, I'm just trying to think of all the different reasons that could swing. 3-pointers would be one.
Yep.
The travel being so much better, you know, than it was in the '70s, '80s, and really through the '90s. The fact that we know more about our bodies when you're on the road and things to do and not do. Yeah. Maybe don't have, you know, steak and fried chicken and cheeseburgers at 3:30 in the morning.
Might be part of it.
We know that stuff.
You think DoorDash has saved or has squashed home court advantage? It's like, it's too reliable to get a Chipotle bowl now. You can't. You don't have to worry about the Michael Jordan, like, stomach virus from pizza anymore, right?
Well, you have that, and then you have, you know, when you think about the way all the shooting motions were different in the '70s and '80s, and your guy's doing this, and now everybody's off an assembly line with the way they shoot. That's true. So the technique is more reliable than it used to be. I mean, the thing that almost killed the Spurs tonight were the free throws.
Oh my gosh.
And yet down the stretch, they went 10 for 10. And then Castle, I wish we had mentioned this earlier. We've both been in the building when somebody has huge, huge free throws. The most famous ones I ever remember from this was the two that Kawhi had during, right before the Ray Allen shot.
Oh yeah.
He missed the first one, he made the second one. But the, sometimes when it's like you have to make both of them and you're on the road and the crowd can go to this level and it almost feels like they're invading the guy's body, it's so loud.. And you're, when you're in there watching and you're like, I don't understand how he is gonna make these. Like, this is the most pressure I've ever seen anyone in my life. And Castle, who they ran the play for, they inbounded to Fox, he threw it right back to Castle. That was their guy. And he fucking drained him. And it was awesome.
I feel like we, we have mentioned a lot the shot that he hit to kind of like give the Spurs the winning cushion and maybe not enough about, I mean, his physicality on these drives is unbelievable. And he, he's so elusive. Like he's kind of constantly in a state of Eurostep as he gets to the basket. Like, yeah, always decelerating, always kind of challenging you to stay down and not jump so he can bait you into a foul. I just thought his drives were exceptional, especially in the first half, but late they needed him too. Like they needed somebody who could bust through even tough competitive perimeter defense. And when the game is officiated this way, Stéphane Cascone absolutely do that. Like he, he will dish out as much punishment as he will take and he will somehow convert a lot of those opportunities.
He does this one move that I'm not positive I've ever seen anybody do consistently before. When he goes right, he drives right in the chest and takes a step, and usually you stop because there's a guy there. Yep. But then he just takes like this delayed second step and just puts it up anyway. And like one time they blocked it today, but there are other times when it just— I don't know how he does it, but he's just— you can't— he's almost like a running back who moves the line forward every time he goes into the line. On those drives, he's never losing the contact. He's always like going toward the basket. I thought he was great today. I did. I was a little concerned about his 2011-12 range, Westbrook range, kind of.
He's got a little of that.
Little like, I got this, guys. And it's like, no, no, not this time. You know, but he was great today.
And not just that I got this, guys, but he is good right now. He's playing, he's playing tremendous defense on Brunson in particular on the ball, but like really, really high level stuff. And he'll come up with huge rebounds, huge hustle plays. He's doing all that. He will also at one point in literally every game commit one of the dumbest fouls against a 3-point shooter you have ever seen in your life. And so like you just have to live with it and you just have to accept that in the balance OG Anunoby is gonna get 3 free throws, but you're gonna get all this great defense and this great driving and this important scoring. He just does so much for them.
Yeah, it's like, I feel the same way about, uh, my dog Murph. We were having a great day today. Yeah, preparing. I was preparing for Rewatchables tomorrow, taping, preparing for this pod. It's a wonderful day. And then all of a sudden he just walked right into the pool and it's like, why'd you do that? And he's like, I don't know. I don't know why I did it. Um, but it was a special day and I didn't let it mar the day for me. There you go. Um, so yeah, I think we hit everything. Prediction for Game 4.
Do we have to if we've We've just been wrong in these entire playoffs.
I did not make an official prediction. I did bet on San Antonio today, but I had a FanDuel bet, which I think I lost 'cause I think Harper missed the steal. But I didn't, I honestly had genuinely had no idea what was gonna happen tonight. There was like 5 different scenarios and I would've believed all the scenarios, including San Antonio just getting waxed. Yeah. And at halftime I wasn't exactly racing to live bet the Spurs, right? Down 7, it felt like the Knicks kind of had it. So, so there'll be no Trump. It'll be a lot easier to get into game 4. Yes. A lot less of a circus. And if I'm the Knicks, I'm hoping Wemby's a little more tired than he was today.
Could be. I, if, if forced to pick, I think the Knicks will win game 4. I don't feel great about it. I think they'll win Game 4. As someone who would love to see a 2-2 Game 5, I hope that's not the case, but I don't know. I just, I have come to respect so much about the way New York answers basically any challenge and their resourcefulness in terms of their playmaking and the way that they will tap into, like, I just fully expect Mikal Bridges to come up with like 18 critical points in Game 4 and KAT to be a really important playmaker again and Landry Shamet's shooting to come back on track. It's just kind of what they've done. So So if, if, if I have to choose, I think that's what's probably going to happen. But honestly, who, who can trust any of our predictions at this point?
Do we pour one out? I'm not gonna actually pour one on my desk for the Knicks. April 23rd was their last loss. It's now June 8th. Wow. June 8th. Uh, 15th anniversary of the day we launched Grantland, by the way. Shout out to June 8th. Congrats. But, uh, thanks. Um, no longer exists, but it was a great site that I love very much. But yeah, April 23rd to June 8th. Legendary streak. Here's, this is not a prediction, but this is what I think will be the key to Game 4. I think that Spurs open threes are gonna be even more open in Game 4. I think from what you've seen, when you look at, what do we have? We had Fox 0 for 5, Castle 2 for 5, Harper 1 for 8. Keldon Johnson wouldn't shoot any of them. Champagny and Vessel were 6 for 11. I just think they give those guards those threes and play off the ball, go way under the picks. Mm-hmm. And guys, we don't think you can make these, knock 'em down for us. And if the Spurs knock 'em down, they're, they're gonna go back 2-2. And if they don't knock 'em down, they're gonna be down 3-1.
Yeah.
That is kind of the crunch when the Spurs do play their 3 guards together and, and they, they seem to like closing that way, at least for part of the fourth quarter in crunch time, if not the entire time. It's good ball handling. A lot of ball handling. But if all three of those guards are not defended, and I would say at minimum they're not defended in the way that Vassell and Champagny are, like the Knicks hug those shooters a little bit more than they do Fox and Harper and Castle. But having two of those guys off the ball, if you're gonna play all three guards together, that's a, that's a lot of crunch. I, I do, I don't think it's an accident that the Spurs, even though they have all that ball handling and they were able to make some things happen, also didn't have any real flow in terms of like getting an actual downhill drive that then kicked out into something on a lot of those possessions.
And they were playing way off. Harper was kind of in front of the Knicks bench down the stretch. They were just playing way off him. Yeah. And they didn't really care if he shot and they wanted to funnel him toward Towns anyway. Spurs only had 8 turnovers and 28 assists.
That's the one. I think the 16 turnovers in Game 2, all that driving, all of that play, like working through pressure. 8 turnovers is just unbelievable stuff for them.
Shout out to Steve Kerr, who loves nothing more than a lot of assists and low turnovers on a box score. I'm sure he's gonna look at this tomorrow and be like, wow, 28 and 8. That's wonderful. I love it. But yeah, if they're gonna have less than 10 turnovers and they're gonna have 32 free throws, you're probably gonna assume they're gonna win. All right, Rob Mahoney, what, what TV show am I? What TV show? Oh, Doc Rivers texted me and wanted to mention that they finally pulled the Wemby on Josh Hart. Yeah. That he was pushing for that the whole series. Uh, what TV show should we watch between Game 3 and Game 4?
Uh, definitely Widow's Bay, which is great. Although it seems like you have more mixed impressions so far.
I'm gonna give it one more episode. I'm 2 in.
You know what's starting right now though that definitely has my attention is this Cape Fear, uh, remake on Apple TV.
Saw both. Saw both episodes.
Oh, just you wait for 3. Uh, yeah, things, things are getting very spicy, very interesting. If you like a little bit of trash in your TV, which Cape Fear certainly is, I just think you're gonna have a great sweaty Georgian time with it. So come on, come along for the ride for that.
Well, we're doing From Hell rewatchables right now, and the show does check some of my boxes. Most importantly, the really stupid either father, mother, or both Um, and in this case, both of them are really stupid and just seem oblivious to a lot of things that are happening, which I always enjoy.
You got dumb— you got dumb parents, you got outright stalking, you have a lot of like ominous dead animals. I mean, what more could you ask for?
You've severed digits. Yeah, it's good. I would— when I saw they were making it, I was like, ah, why? Why are we— come on, why? Why are we— but then Scorsese's an EP. Yeah. Um, they got, uh, They got, um, Anton Chigurh. Yeah. He's the lead guy. Good to see him again. He must've survived the car accident. Um, but yeah, no, it was good. I liked the first 2 episodes. All right, Rob Mahoney, this was a, a true pres— pleasure and a privilege to stay up late with you. Likewise. After Game 3. We're gonna take a break and we're gonna come back with, uh, your friend Kyle Mann. We're gonna talk a little NBA draft right after this. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. My favorite NBA Finals moment ever. Well, I have two. One was when I was 6 years old and I went to the famous triple overtime game in 1976, Boston versus Phoenix, that the Celtics won and became, I still think, the most famous NBA game of all time. It's either that or, uh, one of the Jordan games. I like to claim it as the most famous since I was there.
But the other one was, uh, Game 5, 1984 Finals, 2-2 Lakers-Celtics.. And it is so hot in the Boston Garden that people are passing out in the stands. Everyone's sweating all over the place. The Lakers are taking oxygen on the bench and Larry Bird unfazed. I think he had 35 points, 20 rebounds, was just awesome. And won the game, gave them a 3-2 lead. They won in 7. And that is my favorite Finals game ever. There's a lot of great moments. I was lucky to be there, by the way. There's a lot of great moments on the court, but the best ones are served cold, just like Michelob Ultra right here. A superior light beer that's only 95 calories. Yeah, 95 calories. Even better, they're getting people closer to the game with a chance to win tickets, custom merch, and much more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 25-26, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at mcglobeultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details. It's finally here, the NBA Finals, Spurs versus Knicks.
Each game I've been looking at the matchups and sharing my favorite picks from FanDuel Sportsbook on my Twitter feed. Usually a same-game parlay, usually tied to If you think one of the sides is gonna win, here is what I think the roadmap would be. So we'll see. I, I definitely have 48 hours to think about what happened in Game 3 and how that might affect Game 4. Stay tuned on Wednesday for the pick. When I bet, I bet with FanDuel, a brand I trust. It's easy to build NBA bets on FanDuel. Super duper easy. Easier each year. 2026, the easiest year it's ever been. I know I'm getting great odds, payouts on my parlays, boosts every day. And I'll get my winnings instantly. FanDuel, play your game. All right, J. Kyle Mann is here from The Ringer. He is on the Ringer NBA show. He is one of the many good people that help with our Ringer NBA draft guide, which I love. We're 2 weeks away plus a day, Kyle Mann. This is some draft. I've changed my opinion on the order of the top 4 17 times. I have no idea who's going 5th or picking 5th.
I have no idea what OKC is gonna do with 12 and 17. We have no idea if the Bucks are gonna have 10 and 13 if they trade Giannis in time. What, what's the biggest up in the air subplot to you that's not one of the top 4 picks?
Oh, I mean, yeah, you said you've changed yours at 17 or I'm, I'm probably gonna, if, if I can be shy of like 25 changes at the top, that'll be good. But aside from that, I can't, cause I'm, I'm I'm gonna state some strong opinions that I have that might still change. I think the biggest thing, and I think this is probably, you've been doing this longer than I have, but inevitably you start, you start thinking about the playoff lens. Yeah. Specifically if you think of, you know, being in the NBA as, you know, a poker table where there's a buy-in, you know, like what does it cost to sit down at this table? What is it, what does it take? I think that these playoffs specifically, like if you just watch the Thunder and the Spurs and you imagine those teams are gonna be around for, How long some form of those teams dominated by these big guards, these incredible rangy bigs. I think how this affects these guards at the top, because we have talked about this, this assumed order where we're like, well, you know, the next guys that you got to take.
And you look at every mock draft, it's like, you got to take one of those guards. You have to do it. There's a gun to your head. And the more that I watch these playoffs and I see guys like, you know, Shai or Stephon Castle or Dylan Harper bulldozing every living, breathing human in front of him, I'm like, Who, who, who is not going to get picked on is a question that I've asked myself a lot when I watch these guys. When I watch a Kingston Flemings, who I love, when I watch a LeBaron Phylon, who I love, or when I watch a Darius Acuff, you know, who I like a lot. I have problems with Acuff we can talk about, but that's the biggest thing I've been thinking about is like, who's not going to get picked on? Because in the playoffs, man, the links of your chain, if you have one that's weak, you got a big problem. And I, and that's kind of what's been on my mind with these guards lately.
And also, where have we gone wrong in the past? And I think Castle is a great example where you only have one year to watch a guy. He's on a great team that didn't really need his offense that much. He was relegated to a role. People overlooked some stuff with him, especially the pedigree, and he ends up going fourth, which is just nuts. When you go back and you look at that draft now, it's insane. I look at Mara like that. The center, which I've seen in different mock drafts. He'll be in like the mid-teens in some, and like people will be like, well, I just don't think there's any way he's not a top 10 pick with what we're watching, with how many guards are in this draft. And you can't tell me that every team needs a guard. At some point, somebody from 8 to 10 is either— that's picking in those spots or is going to try to trade up to those spots because they don't really need a guard. Like OKC is a great example. OKC doesn't need another guard. But they need somebody like Mara, is somebody that could actually potentially play for them and give them Hartenstein insurance.
So I just feel like he's going 8 to 10, and I feel like one of these guards is going to drop because this is what we've seen, the cluster theory. I've seen 5. I looked at a mock today. I think it was, it was Sam Vecini on— is it Vecini or Vecini? I screw this up. Sam Vecini. I'm sorry, Sam.
Unless he hasn't corrected me his first 3 years of YouTube.
No, that's Sam.
That's my pronunciation dyslexia. Um, Sam Vecchini had Phylon, I think, dropping out of the top 15. It's gonna happen with one of these point guards, and we're gonna think it's crazy when it happens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, think about it. How many teams are like, all right, this is an awesome draft, this is a real pedigree pick, and I don't need a guard? Why do I have to take Phylon? Um, I don't know. I just think weird stuff's gonna happen when we get out of the top 4. And that's before we get into all the trade-up, trade-down stuff, which I think is really in play this year.
Well, this might interest you 'cause you're the, you're one of the basketball reference filter, you know, aficionados. I know you love to go on these dives. I did. I went on, I went on last 5 playoffs. So going back to, you know, the, the Warriors, sorry to bring this up, but the Warriors win over the Celtics in '22. Yeah. I hope I'm not fired for doing that. But over 100 minutes played for guards who are 6'2" or under. Some of these guys were listed at like 6'4". We saw that there was some, you know, smoke and mirrors with that.. But the players who are productive at that size in the playoffs for multiple games, for a heavy minute load, it's not a long list. You're talking about guys who kind of get cups of coffee, who are quick in and outs. I mean, you could go down into the Schroeders, into the Monte Morris's, into the, you know, Fred VanVleet's, but really you're talking about high-impact players. It's Steph Curry, obviously it's Peyton Pritchard, who, you know, Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, Tyrese Maxey, Ja Morant. And if you kind of go through and look at those guys, it's like, well, what's the common denominator there?
I think it's that you, if you're going to be that size, you need to have a superpower. I mean, yeah. And, and the question I've been asking myself is like, could we see those superpowers when these guys were coming out, or did we just miss them? You know, with Brunson, I think there were some things that we missed, even though I liked him, like some of the things that were going to translate for him. Uh, Peyton Pritchard, I think I missed a lot of with him, his ball handling. Uh, you as a Celtics fan, what do you— his handling really is his superpower, right? He's become a good shooter, Is there anything else that you would say?
I would say the one-on-one skills. I just think we fucked up the Brunson thing and I, I'm 99.9% sure I went kind of haywire about it during the draft that he fell out of the first round just because he was just a pure awesome point guard. Like you couldn't tell me he wasn't a rotation guy for somebody. And I didn't like, that just seemed like a classic overthink. But I see your point with the size though. Curry I wouldn't count 'cause I think Curry is, at least— I've stood next to him. He's at least 6'3". I don't know what he's listed at, but I don't know. He found—
I thought he was at least—
I thought he was at least 2 inches taller than me. But I also feel like he's a little stronger. Like, I, I don't— Acuff to me is the one for this conversation, because if you're taking him, you better think he is a really, really high-end special offensive guard. That's the only way you can justify putting him in the top 7. You have to think he's like a 25-8, 40% 3-point shooter. Really uncoverable at the end of games where teams are gonna have to trap him. That, that would be like the roadmap for him being worth that pick. 'Cause defensively it's not gonna be there.
Well, I think the line of questioning you have to go into with Acuff is we all kind of know about the defensive stuff that's been well documented. If you watch him there, you could pick at him for the physical issues where it's like, I've kind of wondered if he's laterally very mobile, if he's gonna— he's not like a super vertical athlete, things like that. He's gonna get attacked. You know, Brunson is good of a player. Brunson's very competitive defensively and he still gets attacked. He does what he can. You kind of have to ask yourself, is this, you know, something that was a bug of, of this Arkansas team this past year where he carried one of the biggest offensive loads in the country?
They—
he was the only guy on their team that was capable of making like a consistent good decision. He ran that team. And did he have to kind of rest on, on defense at times? Davonta kind of had the same thing going on at BYU.
Yeah.
Or is it something that he could just choose to— and we're overrating this, you know, we're maybe leaning into this too much.
No, we're not overrating it. We're not overrating it.
Just ask some questions.
Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's a fair question, but the question is is the other stuff so good you just, just put it on the side. Everybody's got some flaws, right? Castle, even Castle, who I love, has that kind of Westbrook side where he's a little outta control at, at the worst possible times. And that's his flaw. I get more worried about a guy like Brown. And Brown has creeped up. He's creeped up to 5 in the conversation. For the Clippers, because the Clippers are basically like, we're not taking a point guard. We just went all in on Garland. So unless we trade back, it's either Wagner or Brown or Burris. It's going to be one of those three. And you're higher on Brown than most. You really like— I don't know, you seem like you at least really like the ceiling.
Are you doing the Louisville thing to me?
Well, you like the idea of him. I just— but you, you also recognize the red flags.
I've kind of like worked through my cautious optimism with him through this offseason because this— the regular season was just weird, man. I mean, like, he, he was— he— you could go into the speculation about why that stuff happened. I'm not willing to like openly just like— you, if you're gonna do that, you have to like throw people personally under the bus. I don't— I'm not gonna go that direction at like right now. But like, if you watch him, his consistency as a shooter Can he get to the rim and score? I mean, those are the two basic things. And if you're going to be the player type that he is and have big struggles in that area, and then also, are you going to be, you know, vulnerable defensively? I think those three things are very much up in the air with him right now. And if you, if you look at— I've compared him to— he's, he's definitely in the, like, phylum of Anfernee Simons and Keonte George for me, which is Your face said a lot there. If he's gonna be an inefficient skinny guard who can't get to the rim and he's streaky from 3, that's an archetype that's— it's— you're gonna at best gonna be like, be like the third scorer on a team, I think, right?
It's hard to be the primary if you're gonna be that, that type of player.
My weaknesses when I— and I feel like I've been good at evaluating the draft for over the years. I think my— I've had more hits than misses. My two weaknesses are when there's not enough kind of, kind of data slash tape on a guy and you're projecting like somebody like Wiseman. I just completely missed on Wiseman. There was basically didn't play any games and you're just basically looking at the, the prototype of him versus what he actually did. The other one that kills me over and over again is the raw talent could go either way guy. I just tend to discount those guys. They make, they make me nervous. Like to me, I would just, I know Burris is gonna be good. I'm positive. I don't know how good he is. I don't know if he can be a lead guard that can run your offense. 'Cause we, we would've said with Castle, even the stuff he was doing in the two OKC games without Fox and with a compromised Harper, like, I don't think anybody would've predicted he could've done that two years ago. And I wonder with Burris, like, I know that's a, like, he's a prototypical two.
Is he ever gonna be able to beat people off the dribble? I'm just betting on that dude. I'm betting on the competitiveness. I think he has the right size. And I think we always forget this with these young guys, like the stuff they're missing now might not be stuff they're missing 5 years from now. You know, they're gonna work on this and they're gonna try to get better and better at the things they're not good at. I'm betting on that, guys. So if I'm the Clippers and it's between Wagler and Burris, and I know Wagler has the higher pedigree, I would just rather trade picks with Sacramento, pick up an asset, and take Burris at 7. I think that's a smarter move.
Yeah. If you look at the, these finals and you look at the Western Conference Finals, I've circled back, I've liked Burris the whole process, but I've, I've I felt pretty validated in liking him a lot and having him high watching these playoffs. 'Cause I think if you just, if you look at how you're building teams, I mean, if you have any kind of a weakness, if you look at just even like the Knicks and the Spurs, the Spurs have a few weaknesses that the Knicks are picking at, you know? And the Spurs came into this series looking at the Knicks thinking there were some weaknesses that have turned out not to be. So I just think, and I've watched Burrys and looked at these series and thought to myself, I could see, I could have seen him logging big minutes, not just minutes, like being seriously on the floor a lot in that Thunder Spurs series or this Finals. And if you look at some of these other guys, I'm not sure about that with Mikal Brown. You know, I'm not sure about that with Darius. It could happen 'cause Brunson is kind of in the same mold as, as, as, as Darius Acuff.
But I'm pretty sure about Burrys being on the floor in major—
I'm all in on Burrys. And Acuff, the problem with him is You worry that 20 years from now he's a Darius Acuff was a problem. He's one of those guys. And he basically played in 5 playoff games the first 5 years of his career, but has this incredible 5-minute Twitter. Kaffee in seiner besten Form mit der neuen Qubo One Kapselmaschine von Chibo. In jeder Qubo-Kapsel steckt Spitzenkaffee aus besonderen Anbaugebieten.
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His passing is pretty special for his size.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Like his passing is pretty special. Like unusual. I just like him. And if like if I'm at Atlanta at 8, I'm really thinking about it because I don't really— I just committed to— I committed to Dyson, $25 million a year. I paid Alexander Walker. I have Jalen Johnson. So at that point, I'm either if I go back in and I re-sign McCollum, which I think they're probably gonna do, I don't really need a point guard combined with the fact that the point guard hit or miss rate is pretty high. Whereas like a center, I felt the same way a couple years ago with, with Clingan, who everybody seemed just hesitant to take in the top 10 for some reason. It's like, why? This guy's, you know, this guy's potentially a premier rim defender and a really good rebounder. Like worst case scenario, this is a guy that's, gonna be a $25 million a year player if he pans out. And I feel the same way about Amar. I just, I just can't see him dropping outta the top 10 with how few centers there are.
Yeah, he's, he's one of those, there's this funny phenomenon that happens whenever phenomenon, it's just a funny thing that happens whenever I'm watching a player, a cert, like today I was watching Bruce Thornton from my Ohio State who's a little puck scoring guard that you may learn about, you may not. He's one of these guys that may make it, we'll see. But he's kind of a bowling ball. But they were playing Michigan and I was keeping an eye on Bruce Thornton and I kept getting distracted by Mara. Yeah, I was trying to focus on Thornton, but there was a play where Mara was on the short corner on the right side and he got double-teamed and he reached blind around the double team and whipped it with his left hand to the opposite corner on a dime. And I was just like, God, like, it's hard to focus when the 7'3"— and you talk about Klingin, Mara's bigger than Klingin. He's huge. So if it's— we've entered this time too where You know, I always say with Wimby, you can't fight fire with fire with him because there just is no one his size. But Maura is a better mover than I think he gets credit for.
He tries to dunk everything. He's not— he's got kind of a— he's got kind of a shot put, you know, baby hook thing that he does around the rim, but he tries to dunk everything. He's defensively really competitive. I think for the Hawks, you'd be presenting some like spacing, spacing questions because you'd have Daniels out there and Jalen Johnson and, you know, but they'd be big and they would just kind of bludgeon people. So I mean, and defensively I think he's going to be pretty good. So I'm, I'm with you on Mar. I'm, I have him in the teens right now, but that could change.
But how, how high before it becomes offensive to you? Like anything higher than 8 would be pretty stupid, I think, right?
That'd be tough. I think 8's like, yeah, it's around there because there's, I mean, it's not a sure thing because we talk about Malačić last year who I, I had big reservations about, and it's like he had some moments this year, but it's not a sure thing with him. It's, it's those guys, how well they move in space. Because I think Klingon didn't get enough credit for how well he could sit down and move in space either. So yeah, is Maher going to be that good? I'm not so sure. But it's, it's tricky for those guys to survive in space.
Better in college. Well, Phylan's the guy who's gonna go 5 to 7 picks later than he should, and it's gonna be stupid, and he's gonna have a big chip on his shoulder. I'm just telling people that's gonna happen now. Um, the Tennessee kid has been circulating in the top 10.
And again, as always, I thought you were trying to provoke me over text with that the other day.
Well, as always, these kids are right around the age of my, my son and my daughter, and I'm more sensitive than ever about being mean about NBA prospects. But like, there was a Brooklyn story the other day about they might be interested in, in Amen as, as high as 6, and I, I just think that would be insane. It. And I get it. It's pedigree from high school. He was one of the top guys heading into college. Season wasn't as good as you thought, but I just, I can't picture him in the, in either of the three, either of the two conference finals we watched or the finals we're watching now. I just don't think he plays.
No. Yeah. It, it, him getting, he's a perceived shot maker who's incredibly streaky. Can he get to the spots he likes to get to? Um, he's really, really rough around the rim, and I was shocked by that report. On the one hand, I was shocked, and when I saw who it was attributed to in terms of the team that was thinking about it, I was like, this makes no sense. I would not do this. Granted, they're thinking that, okay, that makes sense. Um, the thinking of putting him next to Jaegar, who I like with conditions— like, I like Jaegar in certain narrow conditions. Like, if you're gonna have a guy who can and I want to get guys who are as unconditional as possible, like you would fit in as many situations as are possible. I don't want to have a role player that I have to have these very narrow circumstances that they work in. And if I'm going to take 5 playmaking players who are all rough shooters one year and then take a 6'9" guy who can't get to the rim and is a shaky spacer the next year, I don't understand, because that was in the tweet, wasn't it, that Yegor and Nate Ayment like fit together.
I don't see that at all. I don't, I don't think that makes sense at all.
Don't use your picks this year to make up for some weird strategies of the year ago. I do think that's a trade-down team with OKC though, and I don't know what their appetite is for trading backwards, but if I could get 12 and 17 and I could get more stuff from OKC beyond that and basically make them pay 140 cents on the dollar, I would really think about that. Yeah. Because I like this draft a lot and I think as we said, like there's gonna be a couple guys that fall,. And at 12 and 17, you might get a guy who, one, one guy at least who ends up better than the guy at 6. I normally don't like those trades, but I think this is such a unique draft. As long as you're not trading outta the top 4, anywhere from 5, 17, like who the fuck knows? It's gonna be like every other draft. The big things that are shifting is there's Boozer momentum in a real way now that he might end up just going first. I think as everybody looks at these tapes and the advanced metrics, the comparisons to guys from over the years, it's just like, all right, maybe we don't overthink this.
This guy is a 23-11 in the pros for 10 straight years. What's wrong with that?
Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you, talk me through your Friday night when I initially sent that to you and Tate and House, where I was, I was sitting over dinner and I just did like a thousand-yard stare where I was thinking for a minute. My wife's, you know, waving her hand in front of my face like, what are you thinking about? I was thinking about Boozer where I had this epiphany where I was like, man, if the Wizards want to be a serious team in short order and make all the— not that you need to think about the players you have always, but in this case you would check both boxes. Uh, he would make every player that they have right now better instantly. I think he'd help Sar. I think he'd make Trey Johnson, Kaishon George, Bob Carrington, all those dudes, he'd make them better. Well, I mean, that was the conclusion I came to initially. Did you— were you feeling that way and then you came to it, or how did that go down?
I didn't love the March Madness watching him where it just felt like he was one of those, let me put my head down and ram into the door over and over again guys. Right? Yeah. They were there. I didn't understand why he didn't have a 15-footer yet. But then the more I thought about it is, well, in 3 years from now he probably will. Right? So we've seen him be able to like bully his way to different spots. We've seen him be able to shoot from distance and he'll probably add the other thing. The playmaking, the rebounding, like the feel for the game. Like he's always in the right spots and he's just, it's a weird thing to say. It's a weird thing to say as like a scouting report thing, but he just feels like a guy who's just been in big basketball games like his entire fucking life. Like, and he's just seen it all. He's not a, you know, there's some late bloomer guys that make it, but in his case, like, I just don't think he's gonna be phased. I could totally see him in the last month of basketball we watched and all of these different things.
Like you could argue like, If he was on the Spurs, that's the perfect guy you would want for them at the 4 next to Wemby, right? So I, I've been thinking a lot because I do think the Bantz is gonna go first regardless of how we try to talk the Boozer thing into his head. I just think he's gonna go first. I think Danny's such a wild card at second and there's no way to predict it and it's gonna come down, he's gonna take all the input from everybody, but it's ultimately gonna come down and he's gonna be watching these guys. And he's gonna hone in on some sort of specific thing that he's been able to do over and over again. He did it with Tatum, he did it with Brown, he did it when he was gonna take Durant. He over and over again, he looks at like the high-end talent guys and just is able to project them. And you would think it's gonna happen with Peterson, but I, I think there's too many red flags. I don't, I think he's gonna stay away from Peterson and I could see him taking Boozer at 2 would be my, That would be like my minus 130 bet right now.
I might be wrong, but I really think they're gonna take Boozer. I do. I don't— I can't explain it. I think they're gonna take Boozer at 2.
You think the Jazz are going to take Boozer? That would be interesting, based on what— because that would be going with what we were talking about, like just taking a guy because you like him. Because at 3, 4, 5, the Jazz— I mean, you went out of your way to get Jaren Jackson, and you have Lowry Markkanen, you have Kessler, you You know, Ace Bailey. I was thinking about Ace Bailey though. What do you think the compare and contrast there is? Situate like his situation last year at 5. I mean, remember, it's easy to forget.
And what did he do? They went for the talent, right?
And they were just— they were like, yes, we know there's a lot of noise around that. Ainge just has a way of just being like, I'm not— I kind of feel like he has a way of not being as bothered by some of that stuff, right? Like he just kind of was— weren't there kind of questions about Tate? Tatum having distraction around him too when he was coming in where people are like, I don't know, you know, you're, you probably remember that better, but I feel like I remember hearing things about that with Tatum when he was coming in.
Well, think about when they disappeared, but think about when they did the Tatum move. They already had Jaylen Brown and they had Hayward, right? So it's like, and when it, when they did the trade down and they were going to take Tatum, it was like, well, this is weird. They're going to take another wing. How many wings do you need? But His attitude was, this is where basketball's going. I don't think you can have enough wings. We're gonna have awesome wings out there all the time. We'll have at least two, we'll play three together, and that's how we're gonna think. So that's why with the Boozer thing, I can't shake the feeling I have in my gut that he's just gonna be like, well, we have too many forwards and like we don't have enough guards. Well, is it a bad thing to have size and shooting all over the place and interchangeability and you know, if marketing would be the piece that I guess you would, you could potentially trade or move or move for a guard. But I think it's way harder to find good forwards than good guards right now.
Yeah, I mean, ball, yeah, forwards with the skills that Boozer has, skills, forwards is a premium, you know. His dad also is, I don't know.
Well, that's the other thing, they, they're under the hood with Boozer. They're under the hood with Boozer and DeBansa. They know those kids. They know the families, like they, they know those guys would be happy in Utah, which is a whole other piece. And Peterson's like such a wild card. And so the, the season he had was weird. What am I bringing in? What if he doesn't like it here? What happened to him last year? What was that creatine thing? You know, the, it, if he takes Peterson, then that will make me think Peterson is gonna be awesome because that would mean Danny's like, I've overlooked all these other red flags. I'm not gonna take this guy that I know is gonna be good. Because I think this guy might be Kobe, right? So if he, if they take him second, I, I feel like he would have to have landed on that. And I know it's like his son's there, Austin, and the owner's there. I know it's not gonna be Danny's call, but they're gonna, he's too good at this. Like at some point, if he, if he's convinced on a certain guy, that's gonna, I think, be the guy they take.
I think of the top 3 guys, I mean, Peterson's personality on, on his team and his dynamic with his teammates is obviously the most in question. And this year, you know, after the year that we just saw, Boozer, you never hear a word about him as a teammate. Uh, DiBansa, I mean, DiBansa, I, I haven't heard anything like that. I mean, you know, I know his dad's really involved, he's a real no-nonsense dude, um, but I haven't heard anything like— you, you just don't hear the same things about those two guys as opposed to Peterson. So, um, I mean, Peterson is—
bad stuff about Peterson, there's just like, yeah, they— this is a pick that could make or break. Well, I think Fultz, who's a completely different story and a completely different guy, is a good prism to look at this. Like, you miss that Fultz pick and don't take Tatum, that sets you back 5 years, you know? And you're betting on somebody that wasn't physically 100% and, you know, maybe wasn't wired the same way Tatum was, and it worked out the way it did. So with Peterson, I think the Peterson one is the toughest dilemma in a long time with the high school tape versus what happened in the past year. And I don't know, I don't think there's a right answer. I don't think somebody can be 5 years from now like, I told you, like, there's no way to know. It's too separate because that high school tape we've talked about is some of the best high school tape I've ever seen of a guard. And maybe Danny would watch that and go, uh, but the thing is, If Boozer goes 2, is Memphis really going to take Peterson 3? Because that would be weird too.
Like, I think that— I really think there's a chance Peterson would go 4. And we— and Gavone was on somewhere, was saying like Peterson is the best prospect in this draft, he should go first. I don't know, I could see him going 4th too. It's such a hard one to, uh, to target.
I'd go ahead and take him if I'm Memphis. I mean, you think Howard and Peterson together? Why not? What's the— was— is there something that you What are you worried about with him? I mean, he could come in and be your best player the way he wants. They have some guys there already.
I mean, if you think about Edith, Wilson, the most Memphis guy possible other than maybe Boozer.
I would say Boozer is the most Memphis guy. I think he has a lot of Memphis to him too. Yeah, uh, Wilson doesn't strike me— I mean, we're just, we're, you know, putting the personality of our franchise on a guy. I mean, Wilson doesn't strike me as much as, as Memphisy, but Wilson's the interesting one because you'll hear people—
well, I was talking with Wilson, I was just talking about the guy fucking gives a shit and tries his ass off. And that's like kind of the culture they've tried to build over the last 20 years.
I think all these guys do though. It's— that's the thing. It's just, I think, you know, Peterson—
you can't say that about Peterson. That, that's— I mean, he was just dis— he was just leaving games and not coming back. Like, I don't know. I know weird shit was going on in the but that's still a red flag for me.
And I polled some people about the creatine thing, and they acted like that was not, not kind of flimsy. I, I heard some, some responses to that. Yeah. Um, I— he's the most talented shot maker in the draft, and I think he's the most talented scorer in the draft. I don't— it's not close. But that, like we've talked about, you know, he— you can't just draft a guy for talent, because if we were just drafting people for talent, it's your personality, your— how you jive with your teammates. All those things matter, um, you know. And so, you know, I watched in Kentucky at a high school event, I watched AJ and Darren go head-to-head, and Darren was better, like, pretty clearly. Not even close. I mean, kind of dominated. And, and you hear stories from people who have watched many of those matchups and said Darren won every single time. What do you think about that? You know, it's like, he's, he's going to be an elite dribble pull-up shooter. I think he'll be able to play off the ball. He great middle game. He's a great athlete. Is he like a super duper elite athlete?
I don't know, but he's a very good one. And, uh, I think he's a good passer. I think at times guys have to make shots for your numbers to look good. At times Kansas—
sounds like you're back in on him.
Well, this is, this is the, this is the maddening thing about these, this top 4, is that I have gone back and forth over and over again. Right now I'm kind of sitting at, I kind of think I would take Boozer 1. I know House wants his, his shot making, you know, sexy score, something to be excited about for the future. I think the most, I'll say it again, I think the most efficient, direct, straight line way for the Washington Wizards to be a great basketball team is to take Boozer first. And I think they'd be good. They'd be serious. They'd be like playing possibly by next year. I think that that could be possible for them.
Wow. You don't agree? No, I, DeBansa reclass— I'm at the mode now with the research where I'm like doing reclassifying research, how DeBansa reclassified after 8th grade. And he's actually, I think he's 10 or 11 months older than Flag.
I think they're like a month apart if I'm not mistaken.
Is that what it is?
Hold on.
Yeah. So Flag, Flag's December 2006. Oh, you're right. Flag's August Flag's a month older than the Dabansa. Yes. That's what it is. Yeah. Okay.
Um, do you worry about that much though? Because I'm, you know, as, as a parent, these little boys, I mean, I, you know, we, you have that conversation about when you start, cause I used to think that was a big deal and you talk with their kindergarten teachers. It's just lamer than you think. It's like some people, I mean, if you think your son's going to be an athlete, I guess it depends on when they move them from grade to grade. But I don't know, I'm like, Burrys is a little bit older. That doesn't—
he is the second year guy, but people are holding that against Burrys.
If he would— if he were a sophomore, would you give a shit? Like, I just don't— I don't care about that. Like, I, you know, it's not like they're—
I didn't say I cared either way. I'm saying I'm at the point of the research where I'm doing the deep dive on other guys that have reclassified over the years, and it's like, I see, and it's like, uh, oh, Josh Jackson. He was a reclassifier.
I think Caleb's similar to Josh Jackson, right?
I mean, I don't know.
Or not Josh Jackson. I'm thinking of Josh Smith from the Hawks. Little similarity there.
Well, regardless, I would be excited to have the 4th pick in this draft, and I don't normally say that because you're getting the chip on the shoulder guy and other people are making the decision for you. And you might end up with the best guy anyway. And this has to be one of the only drafts I can remember like that. Like, I wouldn't even felt that way with the Paolo Ceccibari draft. This one, it's like, fuck, might be, you might be all right at 4. Washington taking Boozer at 1 would be the funniest outcome for a variety of reasons. Not to mention the Bansa going to Utah too immediately. And then nobody knowing what's gonna happen after that. Your predictions, 1 through 4 right now, 2 weeks away. What do you have?
What, what will happen? What will happen? Not my opinion.
Your prediction of the top 4.
I think AJ will go first. I think the Jazz will take Peterson. I've heard they like Peterson. I've heard Danny likes Peterson. I mean, we'll see how credible that is.
I don't believe that, 'cause I don't— Danny doesn't reveal anything. Okay.
Uh, and then, uh, let's see.
So Peterson, Utah, and then you would have Boozer third.
Yes. He makes so much sense with the Grizzlies too.
I mean, that's an unbelievable outcome for, for outcome for Memphis.
Coward, Boozer, Edy, Cam Spencer. Like that, uh, it's hilarious that I'm saying Cam Spencer fourth, but no, I mean, they got an interesting group of guys. Like, I, I think that'd be fun. Um, And then Caleb with the Bulls is— that's a blast.
I like it. Caleb with the Bulls is really fun, right? Him, uh, Boozelis, and, uh, and Giddey just kind of going up and down. Unfortunately, all the guards that they let go in February would not be there. Um, what about our guy, uh, Yaxel at 11 with Golden State?
He might not make it to 11. I've heard, I mean, I've heard talk of him as high as like 7. So I mean, that could— I haven't checked Sam's latest one. I didn't know where he had him, but, uh, people like—
he would fit.
They have a lot of 4s. I mean, that's, that's the thing with Golden State. Um, he could shoot the ball, he would fit the way that they like to play. I could see that happening.
Um, no, I was thinking Morrow would be a great one for them if they ended up with 11. Right? 'Cause the passing to me makes it, makes me think that the passing and the pedigree of being in big games makes me wonder if that's a fit with them. Yeah. And you have, you have to think about who you're going against. 'Cause you know, if they do think they have a chance to get LeBron in July, which I think they will, that's still my prediction. I've stood by it for 2 months. Then you have to think like, well, what do we need? Yaxel for if we're gonna have LeBron playing like that same kind of 3-4 type of minutes, right? So, um, anybody dropping for you? Flemings, is there a chance he drops out of the top 10, or is he right where he was before?
He's climbing for me, actually. Um, I, I liked a lot of this stuff with him, and so, and at the end of the day, you bet on people. That's kind of— that gets lost in this, you know. These, these guys, yeah, these guys are— as much as people love to throw the analytics out there and, you know, live life in a spreadsheet when it comes to the draft. Um, you listen to Kingston Fleming's talk, I've just been blown away impressed with how, uh, sophisticated he is. I'll say who he reminds me of a little bit. It's not one-to-one, but he gives me some real Halliburton vibes when I listen to that kid talk. And you look at the way he gets on and off the ball, the speed, the like, we're not quite sure where, how he scores at the next level stuff that was talked about with— he's not the same level of passer The odd shot. There are a lot of parallels between those two guys, and he just seems like he'd just be a quality add. He's really strong. He might get picked on, but I like Kingston Fleming. He's climbing for me.
People like Johnson too is the other one that everybody likes in the interviews and the workouts, who's seems like he's climbed into the mid-teens. And then Lopez has dropped. Lopez was being thrown around in like that 7'11" range for, uh, brief second, and now it seems like he's out of the lottery. Well, we'll see what happens. Maybe next week, come back on. We could discuss again. Okay. We'll see if anything changes. This is right around— I feel like there's going to be a big trade too soon because like Giannis, I just, I don't think that gets super close to the draft. My guess is if there's a big trade, it would probably be after game 4. Before Game 5. I think the league likes to clear out the first 4 games of the Finals, and it's kind of a wink wink with the teams. But I feel like if there's gonna be a big trade, I could see it be closer to the end of this week. And then, you know, Milwaukee having a chance to get potentially 10 and 13, not to mention some of those other Miami guys, like, that's not bad in this draft.
They might, you know, they had 2 swings at it here. The other one that I forgot was that Charlotte has 14 and 18.
That's, that's a big deal, right? Especially with the guys who might be there.
Yeah. So you could either say, fuck it, we'll just stay here and we'll get 2 swings of this, or try to move up if you're super excited about somebody. All right, Kyle, man, we'll see how this goes. Um, you've been enjoying the playoffs. Oh my God, we're recording this before Game 3. A-, B+? What's your grade for the playoffs?
Uh, I, I would say my excitement level specifically for You know, these last 3 series has been up there with some of my highest excitement. This, this finals in particular, I'm, I'm just like moonwalking around during the day. Just can't wait. Just 'cause, uh, I don't, I, I don't, I'm not a fan of either team, so I have nothing to lose and I just get to enjoy it. So yeah, it's been, it's been great.
I think for me though, it's been really fun to watch the Knicks and San Antonio just as basketball teams for different reasons. The Knicks, 'cause they've played so beautifully together and San Antonio. I just like the guys in their team. I really enjoy the experience of, uh, of watching them, which I haven't always said with the contenders.
You know, I had— I thought of something on a walk today that I wanted to run by you because you— I think you mentioned it in the mailbag. It's really strange that like the top 6 guys— I went back and was looking at the teams— we have young cores where guys are like really clustered together in terms of age. You the historian, how common is it to have a core that is all hitting their prime at the same time.
They're like the next guy.
Yeah.
Their top 6 guys I looked at it are like a year. They're all born within a year and 4 months of each other or 2 years and 4 months of each other. For the Knicks. Yeah. Yeah. They're all hitting their prime. That's really, is that, I don't feel like that happens a lot.
It's pretty unusual. I, I don't remember what the ages were with the Knicks in the late '60s, early '70s, but I feel like they were all around the same because their careers seem to end all around the same times. But usually you end up with like a situation like Dallas where you have, you know, you have vets, you have like the older Jason Kidd type, but then you have like Chandler and Kerr around the same time. And yeah, but there, there's a little bit more of a mix. The, the weird thing with, with San Antonio, the cluster of the younger guys, like even somebody like Carter Bryant being 19, being like the 9th man on the team. You know, they don't have like that 34-year-old old guy bringing them out, old gunslinger, or like even like the Steve Kerr on 2003. They don't have any of those guys. Fox seems like the vet, and Fox is 2018 draft, you know? So yeah, it is pretty unusual. But part of it is because they didn't make the trade in February that I think they maybe would have made if they felt like this was going to happen.
Like, I, I do feel like they probably would have gotten some sort of physical stretch for some, just some sort of flexibility at that spot that they just, you know, I think they thought they were a year away. Um, yeah. All right, Kyle Mann, we'll see you before the draft. Thanks for coming on.
My pleasure.
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob Mahoney. Thanks to Kyle Mann. Thanks to Gahoun Eduardo as well. And I'm going to be back with you live after Wednesday's Game 4 with a very special guest. See you then. Must be 21+ in President's Select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18+ in President's District of Columbia, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or Call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867.
Join The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Rob Mahoney LIVE to react to the Spurs taking Game 3 against the Knicks in the NBA Finals (1:15). Then, J. Kyle Mann comes on to break down the top prospects and the best fits ahead of the NBA draft (48:00).
Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle Mann
Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers
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