Transcript of "Tim Robbins"

Guys, it's so hot outside. Is anybody else hot? I'm so hot. I need a glass of water or something. I need something to cool off. You know what's gonna make me cool off? A new episode of Smartless!

Woo!

Smartless.

Smartless. Smartless.

Hey guys.

Hey.

Hey. Hey. Hey.

Hey. Will's in Italy. Oh my gosh, Will, what time is it in Italy?

Nobody knows.

It's time for a campari. Cue the music.

It's a problem for tomorrow, no?

So Will, have you run into our back of the theater critic?

Oh, everybody here. What a podcast.

Look at this guy. What a body on him. Nobody knew. I see him on the Italian beaches.

No way, if he's 56, I'll eat my hat.

But, uh—

What part of Italy? We did have— We had, uh— We're up in, uh— We're on the Italian Riviera right now. And let me tell you something. It is fantastico.

That's a Portofino.

Portofino just drove up here today. Just drove up. Was at a wedding in Tuscany. Sure. But I did have a guy the other day came into the room to look at something with the AC and couldn't— with the light and couldn't fix it. I wouldn't go out. And he said, uh, that's a problem for tomorrow.

No, with a, with a little smile like that too. It's too hot to fix today.

You know what? And it was, it was a problem for tomorrow.

Isn't that so different? It's so different than us.

I know. What do you mean you can't fix it here?

Yeah, they take all of August off. Europe does.

It's so good. It's so, so good. What about you, JB? How's, how's the, uh, how's the city treating you right now?

The city is all right. The heat has gone down to 85 and 90% humidity as opposed to 95 and 90% humidity.

Are you shooting outside?

Yeah, yeah, on a farm. Not a lot of shade, but it's okay. It's great. I'm losing water weight, you guys. You know how I love that. And Shawnee, how are things for you?

And Sean, what's it going— just barely tread— going from the bedroom to the office and back up to the bedroom?

Yeah, that's it, back up.

Try not to sprain your ankle going in and out of the kitchen?

Nope.

Hey, have you had any more s'mores dates with yourself?

I had a couple s'mores of them.

Oh, Sean has been up early. I was up early. Anything to update us on in your life, Sean?

Yeah, I did. Oh yeah, I did a— just last night I did a— with my friend Todd Stasiewicz, who was an actor I went to college with him. And we— he hosted a D&D night, a Dungeons and Dragons night. But I haven't played Dungeons and Dragons in like since I was like 10 years old.

Since you lost your virginity?

Yeah, because you're 56. Yeah, I mean, it adds up if you think about it. If you look at it, the math adds up.

Wasn't it kind of him to like throw in the surprise in that sentence? Like, I haven't played since I was 10.

Can you believe it?

Nor has anyone else.

No, but we really did. It was so fun. I mean, it was— I think Stranger Things really brought that game back.

So what is it with that? I never did play it when I was 10. It is— it's a role-playing thing, right? And you sort of—

all improvised. Yeah.

So, but do you roll dice to find out who can— who gets the shield, who gets the sword?

Well, like, who gets— and like damage and like how much damage you did. Like, did you survive their hit or did you—

Is that just based on how hard you roll or?

Yeah, I know, it was really fun.

Are higher numbers more damage?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, it is.

Okay. But you know what it's like? It's like playing a video game, but with your mind.

Oh, okay. So you really get carried, you really just get taken away into a different place.

Wait, I heard this joke.

You get carried away. Amazing. Your mind can go.

So fun.

Do you want to hear a good joke? A new pun joke? A dad joke?

Yeah, I've been getting my money's worth out of, uh, out of, uh, what did the sushi say to the bumblebee? Wasabi.

Oh, good.

Everyone's been enjoying that around set.

Have they been telling you they enjoyed it when you're the boss?

Well, I see it on their face.

Yeah, sure. Oh, that's a good one, boss. The guy, hey, hey, has Jason hit you with that 4 fucking times too?

Yeah.

He thinks I'm a PA. I'm a fucking driver.

Over and over again.

You got a freshie for me?

All right, so let's hear it. Hey, you guys. Oh, God, this is awful. The new— the guy who invented cough drops died yesterday.

Oh, no.

Yeah, there's not going to be any coughing at his funeral.

All right, I'll take that. I'll take that.

I mean, yeah, they'll love that. The only— yeah, the only— and this is not a criticism, Sean.

I love you. No, it's funny.

You know what it is? It's just that you say cough and cough and You say cough in the setup.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, but the cough— Oh, right. Cough drop. Well, the guy—

By the time you say it's just—

Throat lozenges, maybe that's better.

I don't know. Listen, let's open up a suggestion line for peeps if they want to do like a punch-up line on Smart Lock. And they can punch up our jokes.

We got a table together.

Punch-up line, please hold. Punch-up line, please hold.

Tell you who doesn't need a punch-up. Here we go. Here we go. This is the segue for Smart Lock.

I can tell you it's a female. I heard whispering earlier. She sounds like she's got a pretty whisper voice.

Okay, well, aren't you gonna be surprised? And no, he's gonna get a great chuckle out of this because he's, he's an Academy Award-winning actor, uh, Academy-nominated director. JB, he has made some great films, and I don't use that term lightly.

He is David Lean.

He's done iconic roles. And I'm gonna go backwards on the Kenneth Branagh as an actor. I'm gonna go backwards on— I'm not gonna lead with some of his most famous rules because you're just gonna know immediately because he's just done some of the most iconic films of all time. But I'm gonna say things like Jacob's Ladder, The Incredible Bull Durham. I'm gonna say The Player, Mystic River, and Shawshank Redemption. Guys, it's Tim Robbins!

Tim!

Oh my God, Tim Robbins!

Welcome, Tim Robbins!

This is really exciting.

So who, who was the female whisperer? Was there any—

uh-huh.

She's just off camera.

No, it's basically someone, because I'm an idiot with technology, someone that they sent from—

You and me both.

Apple to help me set up the microphone.

Yeah, us granddads have trouble with it. You have a smartphone, don't you? You're not still using like a flip phone, are you?

No, rotary.

Oh no.

Portable rotary.

I brought the wrong cable.

Right, how do you carry that with you everywhere you go?

Yeah, I know, and you have to find— there's fewer and fewer places to plug in.

Yeah.

Uh, Tim, man, I feel like it's so overdue having you here. First of all, let me just say that.

Thank you.

It is so overdue. It's great to have you, man. It's great.

Such a big fan of yours.

Um, yeah. Where— well, JB says, where are you? What part of the world are you in? East, West Coast?

Uh, West Coast right now.

West Coast.

Oh, in Los Angeles?

Um, yes.

Don't give him an address, Tim. Don't tell him where.

I can't give you my quadrant.

No, Dungeons and Dragons, uh, setup.

He's gonna show up with his golden die. Yeah, I knew he was gonna ask you to roll.

Roll for damage.

Knock on the door. Are we doing a barbecue?

Yeah.

Have you ever played Dungeons Dragons, Tim?

You know, that's what I missed. I was more, you know, that kind of long-form nerdy kind of game. Mine was Strat-o-matic Baseball.

Ooh, tell me about that. You're talking to a baseball, um—

I didn't play, but I'm aware of it. Tell us a little bit about it.

It's really cool. You know, it's a long, long game, but you know, you play 9 innings and you pick your teams and, you know, basically there's a roll of the dice and a multi-sided dice— die that determines whether it's a hit or, you know, a strikeout or a grand slam, you know, whatever. It's very complicated.

Do you pick real players? You say you pick your teams.

Yeah, we pick real players, yeah. I haven't played for a while. Back in the day when Cal Ripken was on his long streak. Sure. You know, his— I don't think anyone's ever gonna break that record of consecutive times played without missing a game. We kept Cal out of the game.

1,400 games or something?

We kept Cal out of the game.

You kept him out?

Yeah, we kept him out of the game.

Just to spite him.

Yeah, yeah, just to spite him. It was Cal won't play.

But Billy was in there.

We ended the streak.

Yeah. What about fantasy baseball? Do you play that at all?

I don't know.

Cool it, JB.

Sorry.

Are you a fantasy guy?

Yeah, he's up at 4 AM.

I'm like the— I'm the commissioner of my league. It's, um, really, it's my Dungeons and Dragons dork, uh, stuff.

Can you be bought?

I could, sure. Everybody's got their price.

Anybody—

everybody on my team's up for sale except the Dodgers.

Wait, so Tim, were you— are you— so you— I, I'm gathering by the fact that you played that that you were a lifelong baseball fan, and I, I mentioned Bull Durham, which I saw in the theater twice. I love that movie. I know it was a million years ago. It's an iconic movie. It's one of the great sports movies. It's not just about sports. It's about so much more and about— So when you— I guess you were a big baseball fan. So when you got the chance to play— And that character you played, what was his name?

Nuke?

Was that his name?

Yeah. Ebi Calvin "Nuke" Lelouch.

Yeah. I mean, were you— Was that a role, when that came your way, were you— Do you remember the process of getting that? Were you stoked to get that, to play that part? Oh, are you kidding me?

Me. You know what the weird thing was? That I got cast in another baseball movie the same time, Eight Men Out, that John Sayles was directing. And, um, I love John Sayles. So it was, you know, I had to make a decision, and I'm glad I made the one I did because it kind of shifted everything for me, uh, in life. Um, I was so psyched. I mean, I had— I did, I did the audition section, and then I got the— my My callback was basically, "You gotta come play some baseball, throw the ball with Kevin Costner." Oh, wow. And so they wanted to see if I could throw. He didn't want to have to fake any of that stuff.

And could you?

So I had played all my life, and I was mostly third base. And so I had a pretty good arm, but I didn't know the mechanics of the pitching. So I had to go, you know, earlier and— try to put that together.

Did you end up becoming a fairly decent pitcher? Did you learn a couple of pitches?

I did. I got it up to 85.

Wow.

Wow.

No control at all. No control at all.

Threw it into the stands.

When he hits the bull, that was basically me. But I could throw it pretty fast.

And how were you as a hitter?

Pretty good.

Could you get around on an 85-mile-an-hour pitch?

No way. No, no. Oh, no, no. I didn't play. I grew up in Manhattan, so we didn't have a lot of baseball fields.

Right. You had show leagues.

Yeah, we had concrete playgrounds, so we played softball. Gotcha. And so mostly softball. And so I could hit a softball. I could hit very well. And I still play a little bit.

Do you really?

Yeah. I play first base now, you know.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, yeah.

'Cause it's easy. It's easier.

Tell us about that. Is that just your buddies? Is that like a— is it a show league? Is it, um— How are you doing that?

Usually just friends, you know, get together. There's some regular leagues. When I'm on the East Coast, there's a game I get involved in. It's— I play hockey that way, too.

Still?

Roller hockey.

Oh, my God.

We can get so hurt.

Yeah, I have a game every Sunday out here that I'm missing for this.

You're playing roller hockey, Tim?

Roller. I used to play ice. I haven't played ice for a while, but I play roller hockey every Sunday.

Tim, I used to play on the Upper West Side for— I played ice hockey, and then when I moved to New York, I used to play up on 84th Street, and there's a school between Amsterdam and Columbus, and they paved it, and then for some reason, it wasn't open for, like, 6 months, and all these Canadian guys that I knew and a bunch of American guys, we played every— we played all day. All day Saturday and Sunday, like right when rollerblades came out, like '91, '92.

So nice.

And we— and I lived by the Holland Tunnel, and I would skate uptown with my stick all the way up the Upper West Side. It was the best, through cars and shit.

You know, Tim, Scotty, my husband, was a goalie in an adult ice hockey league in New York at a place called Sky Rink, and he played you guys.

Sure.

No way.

Yeah, in the '90s. Scotty's team played your team, and he said, Uh, he said he took a beast of a shot. You took— you threw the— you took a shot on him. It was great, but he blocked it. Is that why? I want a small world.

Scotty, Scotty the Civ. Do you remember Scotty the Civ? Scotty the Civ. Isn't that wild?

What a small world.

Wow, that's crazy.

That's— I remember Scotty.

Goldies are a special breed, by the way.

They sure are. There's—

well, I used to be a goal— I used to be a goalie. I was a goalie growing up. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Wouldn't you agree there's something different about them? The kind of weird—

It's like the catcher in baseball. It's usually the brains of the bunch.

Yeah.

Well, there's always that thing they always say that goalies are the best skaters on the team because they have to be really nimble. I don't know if that's necessarily true, but I think that goalies, you know, they're spending a lot of time— think about it. Even in soccer, too, they spend a lot of time on their own, and then all of a sudden they got to kind of perform. They're the king of their own little domain, you know what I mean? So they have to have a certain temperament.

I don't know.

What about injury? Are you worried about injury? I'm worried anytime I get active, like, you're going to blow out a hamstring or a lower back. I mean, you know, we're not 25 anymore.

Yeah, but were you ever like that before, or is it age that's telling you that or bringing that fear?

No, I was— JB's sneaky. Not sneaky. He's very athletic, I will say. I've seen him hit a softball out of the park, and he's a heck of a golfer. Um, but he does pull it. He'll pull a muscle now, you know, pulling Greek yogurt out of the fridge.

So yeah, you know, it starts to wear on you after a while.

But anyway, um, no, I, I, I, I, I don't worry about it. I don't worry about it. I, I, I have injured myself and it just means you have to sit for a while, you know.

But you're, you're not legging out ground balls, are you?

Oh no.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I went, I went the last time I played Chelsea Piers of— Sorry, go ahead, Tim.

No, I was gonna say, yeah, I leg them out as fast as I can, but I'm not, you know, gonna tear a muscle for it.

Have you guys ever tried to not say, when you're talking over each other and someone says, "Go ahead," have you ever tried not to say, "Oh, yeah, no, I was just gonna say"? You can't do it.

Yeah, you can't.

If somebody says, "Go ahead," You don't just go ahead.

It's always the—

Yeah, yeah, no, sorry, I was just gonna say, I'm telling you, try to do a week without that. You can't do it.

It doesn't work with an edit either.

It's true.

Like if they edit out the interruption.

Yeah, right.

It doesn't work with the edit. You know, I've been curious about this, you know, I listen to this show and I love it. And has it ever gone wrong?

Oh yeah.

Like when you, like the surprise guest is actually someone that's, one of the other two hate or has had a bad relationship with or some kind of— Yes. You don't have to say names. Don't have to say names.

Well, I tell you what, Tim, it's funny you ask because I got not in trouble, but about 6 months ago, guys, I did this guy's podcast in the UK, this really funny dude, Romesh. He's a hilarious dude. And I mentioned that a couple of— that we had had a couple of guests that didn't go so great. Everybody I knew asked you guys, right? And asked me who I was talking— I didn't say who, but we had a couple that didn't go so good. So shit hot.

Give us the names now, Will.

Yeah.

It's just us.

But we have had— Yeah. And you have, as you know, I mean, it's— we all kind of are in— we do the same. We work with a lot of people and we know a lot of people and we know— and there's a lot of crossover. And there are certainly times where you have people who are hurt feelings or whatever.

And there are times where you have people on who you're like, "Yeah, I got a history with this person." But it's never gone wrong, like the reason the episodes have not aired is not because there was anything contentious or something like that. It's more just like, "Eh, that was sort of like not really a flowing interview," and just to protect the guest mostly. It's like, they don't need that out there, you know, where they were sort of tight or we were tight, and it's just not an entertaining thing, and so we just scrap it. We do so many of these things.

And we also— Sorry, I was demanding to say that— Yes, good. That we always, once we get on, I think that you guys chime in too, that we want— I always want it to go well. Like, I want it to go— I'm always rooting for the person, no matter who it is. I want it to be good.

Yeah. Always is.

Yeah.

I just was— I was curious about, like, two of you don't know who the next guest is gonna be.

Correct.

So what if, like, you had an affair with somebody—

That was previously undisclosed.

And it ended poorly.

Yeah.

Guess what? We're way too close. We know each other's—

We know everything.

—dead bodies and everything. So when there is somebody that we know the other person has mentioned before as maybe not being their favorite person, we will sort of break our little rule and say, "Hey, man, I was thinking about having such-and-such on. Are you guys good?" Yeah, yeah.

I'm not gonna tell you when, But yeah. We don't say when. And people do ask. We legit— the other two legit don't know who the other per— who the guest is going to be on that day. So there is, as JB says, there might be like down the road, like, as you're like, hey. But we never let them know.

I like that element of surprise about it. I think that's a good thing.

Well, what's funny is, and we know this, is the audience knows who's on because we advertise who the upcoming guest is.

So we're the only two idiots that don't know.

It's just for us, I guess.

It's just to save the homework. Right. And we will be right back.

And now back to the show.

Tim, so let's— so I mentioned Bill Durbin. You auditioned for that. And talk a little bit about— so you grew up— I mean, your parents were musicians, right? You grew up in the city. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And your folks were musicians. And so when did you know that you, well, weren't going to go in the family business necessarily, be a musician, and that you were going to go go, but you were going to perform, you know, as an actor.

I probably got the bug from watching my dad on stage with his group, the Hiwomen. He was a folk musician. And I remember specifically, not very clearly, but a responding— the audience responding to him saying something and laughing. I felt that was like, like the entry point. That was the moment my 3-year-old or 4-year-old self was like, "Mm, I want that." Yeah. Yeah. So he became, you know, he went out on the road till 1965 with them. And they made several albums together. I had the music bug though, too, as well. Acting, I started in grade school, but music, I also had it, and I actually— I'm glad you bring that up because I've been working the past couple weeks on some mixes of some concerts I've done. I have a band called the Rogues Gallery Band. Whoa. Really? And we occasionally will perform live. We've done tours of Europe and the United States, and we recorded several of those shows. So I'm mixing a couple of them right now. I'm opening a kind of new website performance kind of platform where— What's the website? It's timrobbins.com. Okay. And it'll be launching—

How did you come up with the name?

I fed it through an AI computer to tell me what would be the best. Sure. Best available.

What do you— do you play guitar and sing, or are you—

I play guitar and sing, and I write most of the songs. We do some covers, but usually covers that are, you know, really not well-known songs. The Rogues Gallery started as a band put together by Hal Wilner, and it was Originally, the albums they made were about sea shanties with all kinds of different guests, guest artists. And Hal was such a genius and one of the angels in my life. He used to work at Saturday Night Live.

Yeah, I was going to say.

You knew Hal, right? Yeah, yeah.

Not well, but I knew him a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm on this new site. I don't want to call it a website because it's sort of like—

It's a destination. It's an experience.

Yeah, whatever.

It's my— Portal. It's a portal.

Basically, it's my way of like—

Stop saying portal.

My portal. That's good. Portal. Tim Robbins portal. I have a storage unit that that I have so much stuff in and I want to get rid of. That's what they're for. So I was looking through some boxes in there and I found some old videotapes of— I used to mess around on sets with old-school video camera. You know, the ones where you could load the entire video cassette in?

Yeah, the VHS thing. Sure.

You'd shoot behind-the-scenes stuff of projects you were on?

Yeah, but it would be more like stories that I was making up, right? Like, so I have one from Howard the Duck. Yeah. And so I made up a story about, you know, what was this intrigue that was happening on the set of Howard the Duck. And I did two with Howard the Duck. I did one that was about this actor that goes to set and everybody hates. And the other was about this place called Kitty Land that we were filming at. And it was this location we kept going back to because there was always a shot that they needed. And so you thought you were finished with Kitty Land, and it would not end. I was on that movie for 6 months. It was supposed to be 3. And the last 6 weeks of it were the ultralight sequence. Which is like maybe 5 minutes in the film. So, so it was pretty extraordinary. So I was going a little crazy, and so I had this video camera and I had friendships with the crew members, and we would, you know, just make shit up.

And so you sat there and you were, you were watching this video, uh, after going through your, your storage unit, and like, yeah, so I said, I want to put that out there.

I want— this is— this— I think people would like this. I also have all these interviews with people like, you know, Johnny Cash and Kurt Vonnegut and Harry Belafonte. And I, you know, I've never released them.

Wow. Did you remember these or did they just come back to you as you were going through the storage unit and you started seeing all these tapes? Did you sit down and have like a weekend of going down memory lane? That must have been really kind of powerful.

Those journeys can be powerful and dangerous too. Right. Old versions of ourselves.

You can get lost in that stuff.

I know. I know. Means, and what did I— what was I thinking? And so you have to give a listen and, uh, make sure that you weren't an idiot at the time that you were doing this. Um, but I think there's some good stuff here, and, and the people that have been working with me are, you know, they're the ones kind of driving. They were like, why aren't you doing anything with this stuff?

So these are up on timrobbins.com, or you're in the process of doing that?

No, it's— it won't be up till September 1st. Oh, okay.

Yeah, but that's like a visual, you know, people say, you know, you should write, write a book, you know, but like, this sounds like a kind of like a visual. I mean, Really cool.

Multimedia. TimRobbins.com is a multimedia experience. It's a portal. Exactly. It's a portal.

Thank you, guys. This is my marketing team. All right. What else can we call it? I've got this thing called Robbins Radio, which is going to be my live shows, my father's show, my father's albums, and my brother, who is a film composer, his scores. And it'll be, you know, kind of on a kind of random play. Yeah. Continuous when you come to the website.

Dude, that's cool.

Yeah, I'm excited by it. It is like a living archive. I'm— there's— but it's also just— it's also just been a lot of fun to do. Yeah. And at the same time, I am actually writing a memoir, so it's all just coalescing, and I'm trying to find stuff that might be interesting.

Do you have a name for the memoir yet?

No, I don't. Say timrobbins.com.

No, poor Tim Robbins.

Timrobbins.com.

Timrobbins.com speaks on paper. Yeah.

Now, Tim, you used music in— I was just thinking about—

sorry, Sean.

I was— The Life and Times of Timrobbins.com.

Yo, that's good.

Oh, that's really good. And it'll drive people to the website.

They'll buy the book and the website's right there on the COVID By the way, you open the book and it's just a hyperlink to the website.

It's a QR code. It's a one-page.

Oh my God, it's so good. Oh, you would be so cheap to make. The publisher would be stoked. Do you think you— I was just thinking about your dad and the Highwaymen.

No, wait, the Highwaymen, wasn't that Bob Dylan? No, that was— no, I think you're thinking of the Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings Highwaymen.

Willie Nelson might have been in that. And that's not it?

No, that was the— No, this was in the early '60s. Okay. Which is before your time. Sure. Barely. It was, yeah, 1960 to '65 were their years.

Okay. But you took, I was thinking about the, I think the first film you directed was Bob Roberts, right? Am I right in that? Yes. And that was about a guy, which is a great movie, about a guy who, he's like a right-wing politician, but he uses folk music to kind of sell what he's doing. And it was like a confluence of, this guy kind of used media and personality. And if in a lot of ways it was very sort of prescient, if you think about it, considering where we are these days. Unfortunately. I mean, it was a little— Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty— Can you— Do you ever think— Have you thought back on that over these last years and gone like, "Wow, we were— We kind of predicted the way politics might go in terms of the celebrity aspect of it"?

Yeah, you know, it's— yes, it's weird. But it's also— I was looking, you know, going through all this stuff, realizing that at the time when I was doing press for it, I was also— in some of the interviews, they were saying, is this, you know, is this— because the coming election was George Bush Sr. versus Clinton when it came out. And so the press was asking, you know, Is this movie about Bush? And I said, well, he's actually in the film, you know, there's clips of him in the film. But it also could be about, you know, the Gore Vidal character too, you know, it could be about why change doesn't happen. And so when Bill Clinton was playing his saxophone on Arsenio Hall, I was like, hmm, that's kind of Bob Roberts-y too. Yeah. So at the time I said, you know, it could be either. I don't know. I really don't know. So as time has gone on, it's become kind of, you know, very prescient as far as the current administration. But I personally am not a happy guy with either. I got to say, there got to be better ideas and better, you know, better motivation for people to vote for Democrats.

They have to get their stuff together.

They really do. Yeah, I think there's a lot of shortcomings. No shortage of shortcomings.

I've learned at 65, you know what I did is I realized I have to retire from something, right? Right. And I didn't want to stop acting. I didn't want to stop directing or writing. So what I retired from was was the anxiety, the daily anxiety of opposing something. Oh, that's good. The idea that you can find your worth and purpose and virtue by hatred is this terrible, terrible idea. And the idea that you— if the source of your hatred is this particular person you don't know, it's even a worse idea. You're battling a concept or an idea or a philosophy You're not dealing with an individual. Right. And so, there's so— I feel like there's too many people that wake up agitated about political figures.

And then they use that as a fuel to get through the day.

That's so true. On either side. And it's not a good way to start your day if you're— the first thing you're doing is doom-scrolling about something that will make you feel better about your political beliefs. You know, you might try a little yoga or you might try a little exercise or take a bike ride or—

Totally, because I always say that— I have this discussion with Scotty all the time. You can watch it all day long on TV or read about it online or whatever, but there's nothing you can do about it necessarily. We have the power to vote. Yeah. And we have the power to protest, but to actually, you know, my friend Maria Shriver, she always said one of the greatest quotes ever. She's, if anybody's complaining about any of it, she goes, "I totally agree. So what are you doing about it?" Yeah. Right. And it stops people in their tracks.

Well, here's the thing. This is what I learned was that, "What are you doing about it?" Well, about 15 years ago, I had that epiphany of like, "What are you doing about it?" And I started working in spaces where I could make a difference. So, with my nonprofit, with the Actors Gang. So, I put a lot of attention into how can I expand the programs that we have, the education programs, that we go into schools that do not have theater programs and we introduce them to theater. The prison project that we have that goes into California state prisons. Wait, what is that? It's a rehabilitation program that we've been doing for 20 years now.

Through like, theater and acting and stuff like that?

It's basically— I made a documentary about it, actually.

I know, that's why I asked. I feel like I saw it.

It's called 45 Seconds of Laughter, and it will be coming Yeah. Um, to Criterion in November. Oh, then I saw something else. Yeah. Um, you may have seen it. We've screened it around. It went to the Venice Film Festival and to New York Film Festival. No, what we do is we don't go in, as some groups do, and I think that's valid too, but we don't go in to do a production. We don't, you know, try to make a production. What we do is we do a 7-day intensive workshop to train them which is basically in the four states of emotion that we have. And we introduce these states of emotion, but first we introduce the characters they will be playing them in. So we create a distance between their expression of emotion and their personal story. So we use the commedia dell'arte. So you have the rich old man who wants to marry off his beautiful daughter who's in love with a young man. He wants to marry her off to one of his business associates. It's a tale as old as time. It's done in every culture. It's told in every culture. I saw it in Bali in a town square.

So, but the reason is it keeps the characters simple and, you know, stock kind of characters, and then we try to get them to genuinely portray emotions through these characters. And— Wow. So what happens is they get in touch with emotions that they have kept dormant or suppressed for many, many years. Survival in prison is one emotion. It's anger. It's about keeping safe on the yard. You have to project an image of anger. And so when they start playing these other emotions, some of them tell us that they haven't been, you know, allowed to be sad or in fear or happy for years. And so it allows them this place. The other great thing about it is when we set a program up, we ask the prison to give us people from different sections. Like, it has to be integrated with different gangs, different, you know, so they're all in the same room. And what we find out happening is this bond that happens in the room between them when they're sharing emotions together and looking in each other's eyes and realizing that they have a lot more in common than they thought.

I mean, imagine if we could do that for people who aren't in prison. I mean, just—

Yeah. That's what set me on this path of, like, if I can— if these guys can do it, we can do it. You know, we can't— we don't— we have created our own yard where you have segmented populations that stick together. Mm-hmm. And if anyone crosses over the line, it's at their own detriment. Right. And that's the way it is now in our society. Right. If you say anything that might be sympathetic to what you view as the other side— Yeah. You're done. You're out. You're done. You're condemned. You're— and it's— listen, it's a terrible way to build a movement. Let's just put that— put it that way. When a good organizer walks into a room to organize a movement, they have— the main objective is to find out what all these different people have in common. Right. There's going to be— they have to walk in knowing they're not all going to agree with them. So what can we agree on? On, right? It seems like the opposite now. It seems like in order to get to save your position in a, in a certain community, you have to act in a certain way.

And if you act outside of that, then you're kicked out of the community.

Yeah, that's right.

And that's on both sides, by the way. That's not a, that's not a partisan thing. That, that's something that happens on both sides. And that's not a, that's not a good way to build a I totally agree. Because basically you're making people— you're saying you have to agree with me or you're done. And then so people learn very quickly, oh, well, I shouldn't talk. I shouldn't say anything. I won't say anything. I, even though I don't agree with what they're saying, I'm not going to say it. And so that's not an alliance. That's fear that's causing that. So. Right.

We'll be right back.

And back to the show.

Tim, did you get involved with the prison stuff when you did— 'Cause I was thinking about Dead Man Walking, which was your second film, which is so different from Bob Roberts in every way. Is that when you first started getting involved with that or becoming really aware of that?

I was kind of aware of it growing up. I had friends that went to jail, so it wasn't like It was one of those, you know, "There but for the grace of God go I." I had maybe different parents or different upbringing that kept me away from that. And then I did some work with some prison organizations back in New York when I first, you know, after Bull Durham. But then I did Shawshank and then Dead Man Walking. So I was around that space more and more. And one of the things I— you know, one of the prison guards on Shawshank said to me was, you know, I asked, what would you do to change things if you could? You know, and these are salt-of-the-earth Republican, conservative Ohio kind of prison guards. And The guy said, "You know, you gotta legalize drugs, 'cause what we have is we have people coming in for possession for a year, and they're winding up becoming better criminals." Basically, they call it "crime school." The prison guards were calling it "crime school." And so, basically, they said, "You know, there's no GED programs, no job training. Those are year waiting lists." this.

So these kids come in and they have to survive in a— with violent offenders, and they basically are training criminals. So you gotta either, either legalize it or create a separate prison.

And did they, uh, since then, they— there has been movement there, right? It certainly legalized marijuana, uh, to a large extent. Yes, yes.

I don't know if it's that way in Ohio.

Okay. Yeah. I made a far inferior prison film called Let's Go to Prison. Tim, if you ever get a free afternoon— Prison film!

That's a wild picture! Yeah, and by the way, Tim, I love that you just rattled off those movies that are such huge iconic— I know, Shawshank. Your friends that were in prison must have watched you in Shawshank and be like, "Wait, how did he break out? I gotta take some notes.

I gotta figure that out." People must still stop you on the street about Shawshank. It is one of the iconic— I mean, it's always at the top of people's lists when people go like, "What's your favorite movie?" Shawshank's always there.

Yeah, that's a real beautiful thing.

Bull Durham, right next to it. Yeah. I was gonna ask you what today you get stopped for mostly when you go to the store or you're out in public. I was gonna guess Shawshank Redemption or Bull Durham, but then I was like, but Silo, which I watch and you're fucking brilliant on. Which, by the way, season 3 is coming.

I know, I can't wait.

Tim, when you showed up on— I had no idea you were in that. And I— 'cause it's— we're sci-fi nerds, right? Dungeons Dragons, everything sci-fi. And I watched, I was just like, your performance is just incredible in that. Thank you. Yeah, I really love the show. Do people stop you now, like nerdy kind of—

Yeah, yes, nerdy and others too, yeah. It's— a lot of people are seeing it. It's really nice. That's cool. It's such a good show. Rebecca Ferguson is a great actress.

She's amazing on it. So good.

I've had a blast on it. You know, I was shooting over— We were shooting over in London, so it was, you know, a real human experience, let's put it that way. Yeah. 10-hour days, you know, never going over because there's never any weather. You know, it's always in the silo. Everything is in the silo. Right, right. Right.

You know, it was—

and I actually now can talk because this is airing in mid-August. I've been under a kind of a gag order, shut the hell up kind of thing about the show because I wasn't supposed to be in season 3. Oh. Uh-huh.

It's funny, Sean just ordered a gag, but that's a different— okay.

Also coming in August. Also coming in August. I can't wait. They're backordered.

Did you get the ball option too, Sean?

Yeah, of course I did. And I paid extra to get it here sooner, but—

Does that come in Hello Kitty style? Of course.

And Dora the Explorer. Uh, um, what happened? What was the—

I just want to say a little bit more about Silo. Yeah. That, um, we would— You know, the thing about human is that it allows the crew to have lives, right? Right. If you're working 10-hour days on rolling lunches and everyone knows they're gonna get home for dinner with their kids, it creates a happy crew. Absolutely. You get people that, you know, the younger people, they have time for a date. You know, it's not driving you into the ground, you know? And I really— I was really inspired by that. You know, that's Graham Yost, the executive producer. That's his achievement, that he created a great group of people, and he created an environment that wasn't oppressive, that, you know, we tend to take for granted now. You know, we just know, "Oh, we're gonna go 12, 14, you know, 16 to get the day," you know. And I've done it as an actor and as a director, and I never stopped to think, really, until I worked with Clint Eastwood, when we had, like, 6-hour days, 7-hour days. 10-hour days. Like, sometimes— most of the time we were out by lunch. Wow. Because you would only do one take on everything.

Wow. But it created a discipline and a more family. It created, uh, um, this idea that we used to have, I think, in the business of this can be really fun.

Yeah. Uh, what about directing, Tim? Do we get to see, uh, some more of your great directing anytime soon?

Well, as a matter of fact, yes. I'm working on what that is on the long term. Yeah. I've got— I'm writing a couple scripts right now, which I'm kind of reluctant to jinx, right? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

I'd love to see you write one that you star in and direct about somebody doing what you were talking about earlier, about, you know, figuring out how to not be so sort of tribal with their beliefs and practices and passions and things like that and trying to be more sort of inclusive. And you're the kind of guy that could handle something as, you know, kind of nuanced and delicate as that.

Well, thank you. Where's the conflict? We need that story. Where's the conflict?

Well, there could be a bag of money and a gun, you know. I mean, yeah.

Perfect. Perfect. We got it.

Yeah, I remember, Tim, I don't know if you remember this. You probably don't, but Everybody asks, how did you meet Jason, Sean, and Will? How did you guys all meet? We met playing poker. I mean, we kind of knew each other before that, but we really started hanging out when we were playing poker. I was like 27, 28, 29, and you would come over and play poker too sometimes with us. At Cage's house. Yeah, Kyle Gass. Yes. That was so wild for me who just got off the boat from Chicago. I'm like, I'm playing poker with Tim Robbins. Told all my friends, it was so cool. I just loved it. It was so wild for me. But you probably don't remember.

I do remember those games. Yeah, yeah. Yes, absolutely. But there was an element at Cages that, you know— Oh, sure. Would lead one to forget. Yeah.

You'd have to crack a window every once in a while.

This dude, for the listeners, should know that this dude had a— in his living room was dominated by a custom-made 12-man poker table. Right.

And he was the bank as well, which served as a kitchen table, the kitchen counter, the dining room.

Sean, one of the first times that you came, Sean came in and I think you went all in on like 3 of your first 5 hands and you took them out and then you were like, oh my God, it's so late. Remember it was Tuesday nights. It was often Tuesday night. You'd be like, oh, I got to go. And everybody's like, you're not going anywhere.

Yeah, that was our night. I'm like, oh, okay. Yes. Like, great.

They want me to stay. I had a running Friday night poker game on Silo. Oh, really? And Common was the— you know, he was that guy that walks in and goes, I've never played this before. Uh-oh. And all of a sudden— and by the way, he wasn't bullshitting. He hadn't. You know, he'd be— and of course, the cards are going to drop on him. Yeah. And he would win almost every time. It was insane.

Now, were you playing Texas Hold 'Em or dealer's choice? Texas Hold 'Em.

Yeah. God, I remember those games.

Will, how do you remember Tuesdays? Like, it was Tuesday.

I know. I just thought about the same thing as soon as he said that.

Crazy. There were a couple of people who came in who had first night luck too. Richter did. Andy Richter did one time. And then I remember, remember, Eddie Miles came in and did the same thing. And, uh, yeah, I don't know. Tuesday night—

But Common went into the second and third night, and, you know, I won the first week, hands down, right? And I realized I can't win every week. You know, I can't do this. Not a good look, yeah. So I kind of was an idiot the second night, and that's when Common won, and then he went on a string, like 3 or 4, 5. Till Rebecca showed up in the last poker game, and she won. Oh, that sounds like fun, man. First night, yeah.

You always shoot in London the whole time, Silent? Sala, yeah.

Yeah, I was over there for 3 years, really. I mean, back and forth, but a lot of time over in London in the past 5 years.

How do you like living over there?

I loved it. I love it. But I'm going to love anywhere I'm living right now. It's like, why not think that every place you're in is the best place in the world? Yeah. Right. Right? There's so much to do in London. There's also a lot to complain about. Out. But I was just like, well, how crazy is my life? How great is my life that I'm being forced to live in one of the world's great cities for like almost 3 years?

Will doesn't like it much.

Will's not a big fan. I love it. I love London.

You know that.

I love London. I want to ask— I was just thinking about this before we let you go, Tim, and JB, kind of for you too a little bit, because I remember we were working on my thing with Bradley. I would ask, like, You guys, as actors who are also directors, have such a luxury of working with directors and really good directors. Um, and we get to do that as actors, but also then to have— to do that as directors, you get to observe and have that experience with a lot of great directors. How did working with directors as an actor then influence you as a director? It must have, right?

Absolutely. You get it. Yeah. You know it. So you know what they're going through. You know what their process is. One thing I've also understood is the actor will give you the truth. They will— If you're directing someone and you go in with an idea that you know how the scenes should be played, that's a bad idea because you're cheating yourself from— —two really good artists that are gonna interpret something. And oftentimes, when they can't say a line or they keep messing up a line, it means the line needs to be changed. It's— they're the truth through line. The director has to modulate their performances so that it fits into what they're trying to construct. But, you know, deep respect for actors because they're gonna tell you a lot. And hopefully they'll tell you in a way that is not upsetting a set or something. You know, hopefully you have a good relationship and that you can find as much as you can out from them and then guide it towards what your truth is.

Yeah, that's really well said. The tricky part sometimes is that the director is somewhat obligated, and I would say it's sort of required that they come in with a plan such that Everyone who is obligated to follow them has something to follow, and there's a strategy to get the call sheet done that day and everything. But oftentimes, that plan can be at odds with, like what you're saying, Tim, about how the actor might have a completely different idea or perspective or interpretation of what the scene is about and how it should be played. That could be at odds with some of the plans for the camera work and whatnot that have been in effect for months through— through prep and tech scouts and all that stuff. So, it's— There's a balance to strike there that's often somewhat tense because it's the day you have to shoot it, and there's not a lot of room for reinterpretation.

Right, and that's where you— That's where your talent as an actor, when you're directing, comes in.

Exactly. Exactly, to try to talk them into your way. Yeah, exactly.

Do you guys remember good— Do you guys remember moments where you did, uh— a scene where you're directing a scene and an actor did something that so surprised you in the best way that you were like, "Fuck yeah!" Yes, absolutely.

Like, mind-blowing stuff sometimes. You know, it's like— No, it's like— It's that moment where you go, "We don't have to shoot this scene anymore. This is done. This is like—

That truth has been laid down." Or you don't need coverage of the other actor because this actor is killing it here. I'm just gonna want to watch them listen and talk.

Yeah, the guy's like, wait, wait a second, are you turning around?

No, no, we got it, we're done, we got it.

Oh man, uh, Tim, we've taken up way too much of your time, man. What a pleasure, dude. My pleasure.

Yeah, it's very nice of you to come and talk to us.

My pleasure. Yeah, and, uh, Silo season 3— Silo season 3 is happening, it's coming, uh, it's, it's on.

Is it? It's on right now.

It's on right now.

You may or may not be in it.

Well, I— now I'm I wasn't in it till the end of July. And now we're somewhere in August. And the truth has been revealed. I'm actually alive. And I really love this show. I really stand by it 100%. It's a great, great show. Great writers, great actors, great everything. Crew, everything was so beautiful about it. About it. I love that at this stage of my career, I can go to a set and really kind of fall in love again with people in that old way you had when you were young. You know, you walk on a set and you're like, "Oh my God, this is the best thing ever." I felt that about these people on Silo. I felt it. That's great. That's so great. I love that. Such a great crew.

Well, Silo Season 3, TimRobbins.com. It's a multimedia portal. We've been through that.

Coming September 1st.

Yeah, coming September 1st. Very good, very good. Uh, Tim, you're just, you're just a, you're a, you're an icon.

You're the best. And, and thanks for the inspirational words today. Some of those really, really cool stuff. Thank you. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

Yeah. All right, thanks, dude. Enjoy your day. Bye, buddy. The great Tim Robbins. Great Tim Robbins.

The, the movies he's been in.

I know, we didn't really talk. I, I— did you, did you guys see Arlington Road? Road?

Oh wow, no, I did not. I wanted to.

Good movie. I don't think I've ever—

I mean, I, I haven't seen it such a long time, but I remember loving that movie. He plays some like psychotic or some— it's like it's about a small town that turns on them, or he turns on them.

What about Jacob's Ladder?

Wait, did you see it? It sounds like you didn't even see it.

I did, and I loved it, but I have— I haven't seen it in decades. It was so—

Jacob's Ladder was one of the greatest movies. I have not seen it for years and years and years. I don't know if it holds up, but man, I bet you it does.

And with him in War of the Worlds, did Did you see War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise? And, uh, Spielberg film, right?

Yeah, yeah, really good.

He was so good, dude.

Uh, dude, think about, uh, The Player, right? Yeah, remember how groundbreaking that was? The Player was amazing.

What the fuck did we just talk about for an hour? I know, cover any of this shit.

I know, sorry, I gotta drive that fucking interview. No, but he was, he was, he was teaching us stuff about life, man.

Yeah, just open up your mind, Sean.

I love that we're talking.

Who are you mad at?

Yeah, I love that we fan out after he leaves.

I know, I know. I know.

Well, we did it because— We get shy. Yeah. I know, we get shy.

I know, 'cause I'm like Shawshank Redemption, right? Like, you remember that?

I've seen that movie 100,000 times.

God, is that so good. And Dead Man Walking.

What a director. By the way, Dead Man Walking is a such a good film.

I think Sean Penn won the Oscar for that, didn't he?

He did. He did, yeah. I remember when my dog had cancer and I was taking him for his last walk around before we put him down. And I said to his face, I said, "It's dead dog walking." I felt so bad.

And he laughed. He laughed, didn't he laugh? Oh, he laughed.

In that way he used to laugh. Oh, the laughter.

Aw, poor little Buzzy. Remember Buzzy?

And he was also in— I was thinking about the other film that he was in.

There it comes.

There it comes. Well, I— You could always hear when the little turn off the highway Where— let's get to the off-ramp, Willie. What's the name of the off-ramp today?

It's so sweaty. What is it? Yeah, and do you remember that one film? Yeah, what's this? He had a great part in that movie. Bye, Fidelity!

Oh God, that is terrible. Bye!

Hot guy for the day.

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