Transcript of NFL Writer Michael Silver, Jayden Daniels Is Incredible, The Jags Are Dead, College Football Talk + Guys On Chicks

Hey, Part of My Take, listeners. You can find every episode on Apple podcast, Spotify or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. On today's Part of My Take, we have a great, great interview with Michael Silver. He's got a new book out called The Why is Everything: Talking football, the Shana Hand Coaching tree, some awesome stories of behind the NFL. He came in studio. Really, really interesting. He's been obviously in the game for a very long time. We're going to talk Monday Night Football. Pft was in the house. We're going to talk college football Wednesday. We got a lot to get to there. Hot seat, cool thrown, guys on Chicks, pack show for you. It's all Brought to you by our friends at DraftKings. Can't make bets, make picks this NFL season with DraftKings pick six. Which wideout scored more than two TDs? Which QBs threw for less than 350 yards? Which D-Lyman had more than two sacks? Now, if you I think you can pick who will do that before kickoff, you got to play Pick 6 from DraftKings, an official daily fantasy partner of the NFL. It's super simple to get started.

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Okay, let's go.

Hey, football guy, but Dino.

A-w-h.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Welcome to Part of My Take, presented by DraftKings.

Use DraftKings right now, Picksix app, and use code take. That's code take for new customers to play $5 on your first Pick6 set. Get $50 in Pick6 credits only on DraftKings Picksix. The crown is yours. Today is Wednesday, September 25th, and PFT, Jaden Daniels is incredible.

I don't want to get ahead of myself here.

Get ahead of yourself.

I don't want to get ahead of myself.

Get ahead of yourself.

He's so good.

He's so good.

He's so good.

Pft is holding a Championship belt.

Yes. I'm not going to get ahead of myself. It's a long season, and it's too soon to say anything definitive about him. But what I saw last night made me feel emotions that I have not felt in my cold, dead football heart in decades. It was awesome. It was so fun to watch. It's not just like the throw we had to Terry at the end was one of the craziest throws I've ever seen in the face, getting destroyed in the pocket and threw it on a dot to Terry, dropped it in the bucket. I'm happy for Terry, too, most of all, because he's had some-They showed the graphic.

I think that was his 11th quarterback he's got a touch down pass from.

Yeah, there's been some bad names on that list, some real bad names on that list. It was an incredible moment. That throw was obviously great. But what really got me excited about Jaden, I heard some people calling it J CORE Stadium now. It might be called J-CORE. Oh. Yeah. So he won the LSU off. We'll get to the bangles a little bit. I think they'll be fine. I don't. But what got me the most excited about Jaden was how he handled third downs, fourth downs. He was cool. He was directing guys around. He was calm in the pocket, finding guys downfield on second downs, picking up like six, seven yards to make third down easier. I think that's the best game I've ever seen a quarterback play for my team.

He played a perfect It was a perfect game. It was a perfect game. Every big play that you needed, whether it be run or pass, because he mixed in runs, but it wasn't like, Oh, he's just running. It was just timely, perfect runs and then big time passes. Yeah, it It was an incredible game to watch. He was out of this world good.

And eyes downfield while he's scrambling to the side. So the linebackers can't come up too far and commit. So he's going to take those yards when they're there with his feet, or he's going to find somebody downfield. It was so fun being at that game. I was screaming my head off. The Bangles fans, by the way, City of Cincinnati, awesome people. Love the Bangles fans. They were bummed out, obviously, because their team didn't look great on defense. But there were no punts, no turnovers. It was the first time that's happened since when? I I don't know. Last week? No. No punts and no turnovers in the same game.

Oh, both sides. For both sides. The commanders did it last week.

I want to say like 40 years, 50 years, something like that. And then the commanders did that. I don't think the commanders have ever done that. Two games in a row with no punts and no turnovers is just insane. So it feels like I'm watching a different sport. Now, I have to get better as a fan because I'm not used to winning. I'm not. So I got to figure out how to win with class. That's a very good point, Big Cat. I didn't even pack a second Washington shirt to wear on the plane ride home the next day, which is a rookie move. I know Chiefs fans are really good at this. When they travel for a game, you got to pack a victory shirt to wear through your opponent's airport the next day. I didn't even have it. I didn't have a victory shirt.

I think there's levels to it. You got to start with your victory shirt. I think you also have to figure out the victory koozie because that's one. Pre-gaming at a bar, you got to put on... You get the beer, throw on the chief's koozie. Yeah, there's all kinds of accoutchouments that you need.

I'm not used to this. He's making all this better. I'm building a winning culture for myself as a fan right now.

It was so much fun to watch. Every pass was perfect.

You know what the best part was? It's just the feeling last night and then this morning, waking up and watching every single highlight compilation. I was downloading all these YouTube videos for the plane ride home. Even the foreign ones that are spoken in the robotic British voice where they don't really have the rights to it and it's still pictures. And it's just narrating what happened during those still pictures. I was watching those. I was reading every article about Jaden. I was overdosing on Jaden Daniels. I OD'd on JD. You should.

He was so good, it completely overshadowed the fact that Trevor Lawrence might stink. That's very true. That's how good Jaden Daniels was.

Yeah, he might stink. I think Shad Khan said before the season, this is the best team that the Jaguars have ever assembled. To me, that does not sound good for Doug Peterson.

But sticking on your game, yeah, Jaden was out of this world Good. Cliff Kingsbury called a perfect game. I do think the Bengals are in trouble.

Their defense is not good at all.

Their defense, I think they have some injuries because I was reading Bengals fans getting upset. Trey Hendrix Obviously was playing, but I think they were on their seventh, eighth, and ninth defensive linemen. But here's why the Bengals, I think, are in trouble. One, their defense feels like it's a very big problem that is going to be hard to fix. Also, Only six of the 225 teams that started 0-3 in the Super Bowl era have made the playoffs. One of them, famously, was my Pinky team in 2018, the Houston-Texans. So 2.4% chance of the Bengals, statistically, making the playoffs.

Does it help there's an extra game? Does that matter?

It might. It might matter.

I also think- Statistics major there, Hank.

I'm going to look this up. Yeah, that's very insightful, actually. I didn't mean to actually. I'm just going to say that was very insightful, Hank. But if you look at their schedule, I'm going to do a Pete Prisco on you. It's all about the schedule. It's not easy at all. They have an easy schedule. Oh, they do? Yeah, the Panthers. Are the Panthers easy? Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton, revenge game.

Ravens. That's a tough place to play in Carolina now. It is. They got the brown bags off their heads.

Keep pounding. I did see that Dave Canales tweeted out Keep and then went dot, dot, dot. I don't think he's allowed to say Keep pounding. It's part of his covenant. Then they got the Giants, the Browns, the Birds, Raiders.

Ravens again, Chargers.

I I think they have one of the easier schedules in the NFL.

But the problem is when you start 0-3 and you have to get the 10 wins, you can't have another fluke bad game. You can't have another unfortunate Chief's ending of the game. The margin for error now is so thin for the bangles.

But this is also what the bangles do. It's true.

The only reason I think it's different- They did get robbed on the no pass interference. Yes. Wait, again?

No, sorry. That was the The Falcons. The Chiefs got the pass interference. Yes, the Falcons. They didn't get the pass interference. The Chiefs didn't get a pass interference.

I'm not going to write off the bangles because Joe Burrows, Joe Burrows, and that offense is elite. I just think it feels different because I don't know where the fixes are on defense. The only fix I have for the bangles is Joe Burrows has to change his hair color. You can't be 0-3 with that hair. We love Joe, but I think he deep down knows it.

That was a very popular sentiment in the section I was in. He was like, Get rid of the frost tips, Joe.

That's a 3-0 hair.

You can't lose. You got to cut your hair They showed him going into his coach's office after the game. He didn't go to the locker room. He walked straight into the coach's office with Zack Taylor, and they had a chat about something. He should just walk right into the barbershop right afterwards and be like, No, can't take it off. You can't lose with frost tips.

Or like Diet Jet Black.

Yeah, go Goth.

Yeah. It's sad around here.

He's in his sad boy era right now. Yeah, it was... God damn, it was a fun game to be at.

I mean, it had to have been so much fun.

Before the game, I was lucky. I I had a couple of beers with the mayor of Cincinnati, Aftab Pureville. Nice.

The guy who killed Harambe?

No, he took over after. He's the one that covered up the death of Harambe. Got it.

But you met with him before back in the day, right?

Back in the day, yeah. I don't know anything about his politics. He's a cool guy. Had a fun time drinking beers with him. We made a bet because I love the good mayor's bets where they do the dorkiest bets ever.

Did you get us Harambe's Ashes?

No, I didn't. I should have. Oh, PFT. My initial plan was to ask him for all the documents surrounding the death and subsequent cover up of Harambe. But the bet was if the bangles one, he was going to get my mega jeans. Oh, nice. Because he loves the Jinko look. He loves the wide legs. Then if the commanders one, he had to buy me a full case, 24 skyline chili cans. Oh, wow. He was shipping some Skyline Chili to the office.

I never saw that coming, that you were trying to get Skyline Chili.

I got forced in this bet. Yeah, damn. I guess we have to eat some Skyline Chili in a little bit. That's so much Skyline chili. I have a hypothetical question. People are trying to drive wedges in between certain people on this podcast based on quarterbacks.

I would like to talk about that.

The question of the week. Hank, do you have a noise for that?

Oh, you almost... That was so close. You just edged us. You literally edged us with the nerd nugget of the week.

Do it again. Okay, the question of the week. I'll ask Hank. Hank, I want to be respectful of everybody on this podcast. Always. But right now, if you're starting a franchise and take everything like age, contracts, all that stuff into account. Coaches? Yeah. No, just straight up the player. Just the player. Would you rather have Jaden Daniels or Jelen Hertz?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what everyone wants to know right now.

I like this question, BFT. Be honest. Be honest.

Contracts matter. Max, don't interrupt the question of the week ever again. Yeah.

Don't fucking do that. You knew what that was doing. You knew-I didn't.

I didn't realize.

Because everyone wants to know the real question, and you guys don't talk about the real question. No, no.

I'll talk about the real question. You guys don't want to talk about the real question. You look like the fucking Kool-Aid man in the booth. That's what Memes just said to me. You're ruining the question of the week, Max.

Philly's. I don't have a chance.

The answer is Philly's. Who would you rather have? Can we have that as a graphic? Would you rather have Jaden Daniels or Jalen Hertz answer Philly's?

Who would you rather have Jaden Daniels or Jelen Hertz?

If it's contracts in Jaden Daniels, but just purely because of the contract.

What about no contracts?

No contract. Jelen Hertz has more experience.

More experience, yeah.

That's a fair point. More winning experience.

Max, would you like to ask the real question?

What do you say to the haters, Big Cat?

I say that I- Let's say that the bears have done it again. I say I'm in a fucking no-win situation because if I respond to them, they're going to say that I'm just trying to cope. When in reality, PFT and I have known each other for a very long time. We've been doing this show for a very long time. I consider him one of the closest people in my entire life. He was at that game. His His quarterback history is just as bad as the Bear's quarterback history. He watched Jaden Daniels perform like that. I felt nothing but happiness for him. Now- Nothing? Yes. Can you let me finish, Henry? Sorry. Now, this is partially Because I am completely undeterred with Caleb Williams. If I were deterred at all, I would probably have a different feeling. I am undeterred. I think Caleb Williams is great. I think he's going to be great. I know people want to fucking nitpick and say, L-O-L, bears. Three weeks of the season, he's a bust. That's fine. They could do that. Me, when I put my head on my pillow at night, I'm like, Caleb Williams is fucking awesome.

Why can't we both have awesome quarterbacks? The only part of the PFT situation right now that I'm jealous of, and I will be fully transparent for, is Cliff Kingsbury can call a hell of a game as an offensive coordinator, and I got a fucking dumb, dumb, poopy brain in Shane Waldrin. The commanders without Dan Snyder seem like they're running an organization correctly. The bears still have their head up their ass. So it's not that I think Caleb Williams is... I feel that Caleb Williams is going to be great. I still think the bears are a big problem.

I agree with that. I think they're both going to be great. I think they're both really good.

People can't. I can't. James Daniels is so good. If I say it, people are like, Oh, you're just coping. But this is my true sentiment, so I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. They want me to be mad about something I'm not mad about.

Here's the issue. If you get Now, going down to the offensive coordinator situation, Cliff Kingsbury, he was Caleb Williams' offensive coordinator last year at USC. He obviously knows what he's doing with talented quarterbacks. Your offensive coordinator now was hired because he was the guy that would take a job in essentially a lame duck Matt Iberflus era. Yes. So if you had started over again and fired Matt Iberflus this offseason, then you would have a good offensive coordinator. We could. That's a leap. You You could potentially have a good offensive head coach.

Yeah, potentially.

Yes. But the fact- Hypothetically. The fact that they didn't fire Matt meant that Iberflus had to go out there and make phone calls, be like, Hey, I really need you to help me turn this thing around or else we're all going to be fired next year. Could you maybe move to Chicago? Don't buy, but rent a house.

Then have a clip where they announced it live at a Super Bowl press row, and Jackson Smith Najibba, who is live, was like, Oh, they hired him?

Yeah, good luck with that.

Yeah, his former wide receiver.

Listen, I stand with Big Cat. Despite what Big Cat may have thought a couple of weeks ago, I am rooting very hard for Caleb Williams. I believe you. I bet on Caleb Williams big time last week. I've seen the throws and the plays he can make. He's going to be a very good quarterback.

He just had the most passing yards for a bear's quarterback since Brian Hoyer in 2016. I don't know what... I mean, the Hanks of the world, the trolls of the world, they're literally going to not... If I say this, they're going to be like, There's no way this is how he's I don't know what else to say. I was very happy for PFT. He deserves happiness. That was awesome to watch.

Can I just... I just want to talk about how good he is again.

I would tweet, Jaden Daniels is incredible, or Jaden Daniels, what a throw, and just all my reply is like, You're so salty. I was like, What? What do I need to do? How do I correct it?

I don't know. Just say, He's so good. He is so good. There we go. He's so good.

The thing is, everybody knows him. In my power rankings today, he was, Jaden Daniels is incredible, Washington Ten Commanders next to me.

Okay, so also having a tiny bit of success, and I fully realize this is one game, and I'm not going to overreact, and I'm not going to get ahead of myself. But now I can't wait for... I don't like that. Look, the tongue came out.

Hangs tongue came out. Put your fucking tongue back in your mouth.

He's like Steph Curry when he's about to put up a three from the moon. Hank's got a troll thought that he would like to ruin the podcast with.

Mj's tongue and Hank's tongue, two most famous tongues. Not a troll thought.

Just a thought because you said it's been a long time. Maybe Steven Chase. Years, whatever. You did have an electric run with a quarterback. Taylor Haneke? Not too long ago.

Francis Patrick?

Rg3. Rg3 versus the Vikings. Primetime game, electric.

Oh, this is mean.

I'm just saying like- Listen, go back in your words. Is that not... That was a similar situation.

Hater Hank.

What are you talking about? But that was a 2D QB, unbelievable game, great performance.

You look like you have the QB in the future. What do you mean unbelievable game? It was an unbelievable season. That's the reason from RG3.

It was very good that season.

But okay, Hank, two things can be true.

You said that you haven't felt this in a long time, but did you not feel the same way with RG3?

That's over a decade ago. Okay. That's twelve years ago.

But did you not feel the same way?

Listen, two things can be true. One, Hank's a piece of shit troll. I mean, that's just a fair thought.

I also think he said multiple decades.

Yeah, he did.

No, he definitely did. You won't let me even say point two. That's how big a troll you're being. My point two is- So troll. Hank is actually correct. Yes. There's a lot of similarities between Jaden Daniels and RG3. They're both electric athletes. Jaden is already more developed as a pocket passer than RG3 was. His deep ball is incredible. Learn ball, Hank. Yeah, learn ball, please. Oh, and by the way, Taylor Brett, the cornerback on the bangles, he is the... Who's the LeBron stopper? Dylan Brooks? Yeah. Lance Stevenson. He's like the Dylan Brooks of the NFL. He loves talking shit before games. It's crazy. He was right about Xavier worthy. He was, but he also So didn't have a great game against the Chiefs. I think he gave up a big touch on that game. But he was talking shit about the offense. He did have that crazy interception. The interception was the same.

Bangles fans are going to get mad that we didn't say that.

Yes, but he's also addicted to talking shit. Correct. So he talked shit about the college-style offense, simple offense, and then he got cooked. Back to Hank. Yeah, the troll. There's a ton of similarities. There are a lot of similarities between the I'm in right now and where I was in 2012, mentally. The difference is, I think that Jaden is built to last in the NFL. As long as we don't fuck him up with a weird, creepy injury, I think what I saw from him last night, that tells me I got 12 years of happiness.

I think the organization helps.

No Dan Snyder. That's the answer. No Dan Snyder. I was just trying to clarify what your multiple decades comment was.

Thanks for asking for a clarification. I know we're grass guys, but I'm thinking just like, please maybe just bulldoze the thing and put in some really good turf. Keep them healthy. Split grass, whatever. Because we can't figure out how to keep a grass field healthy for people. I also don't appreciate Max's little grin. Like, he knows that I'm getting too happy.

No. Commanders are top of the NFC East, buddy.

Yes, they are.

Yes, they are.

And I- Wave up at him.

No, I wish Jaden Daniels was not in the NFC East. I'm willing to say that. He looks good. He looks very good. I wish he wasn't in the NFC East. That That is the biggest compliment I can get.

Yeah, I appreciate that. And what I feel a little bit is maybe one day, Eagles fans will hate the commanders again. Maybe one day, Cowboys will hate the commanders again. I was thinking that.

It was TV, too. It was Monday Night Football. What? You had Jaguar's Bills on TV1?

It was a blowout. You were watching Love, Actually? No. Yeah. I was watching. You were doing Smoochy Face on to Love, Actually?

No.

Or were you watching? The only answer you could say right now is Monday Night Raw. No. You weren't watching Monday Night Raw?

Never watched Monday Night Roll on my way. Were you watching Southern House or whatever? No, I was watching a movie.

I was watching Twisters. It was a fine movie.

That's pretty sick. You didn't see it in theaters?

But I was watching it on my laptop.

Oh, that's TV2?

Yeah, I don't have two TVs.

Which TV3? Your phone?

Tv3 would be phone.

Correct.

Well, actually, to be honest, it was Philly's. Then the Philly started to put it away. Then it was-I love it.

You're overlooking us. I love it.

What? No.

Is Jay on He's overlooking it. Is Dylan Hertz the third best quarterback in the NFC East now?

Well, if we're doing the question- Hank doesn't think so. Which quarterback would you take given the salary, age, all that?

Yes, I would take Jane Daniels.

Thank you. Thank you, Max. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Any rookie can be.

On a rookie quarterback? Yeah.

On a rookie contract? But yeah, I don't know. It's one game, but he's the best quarterback in that division, maybe even in the entire league. It's one game. I'm not going to get ahead of myself.

He's right about the one game.

It was a perfect game.

How many touch downs did he score against the Giants? He's right about the one game.

How many drives?

How many touch downs did he score against the Giants?

How many punts did he have against the Giants? That's a real question we should be asking ourselves. Two games in a row, no punts, no interceptions either.

Yeah, no, he looks very, very good, and I do think he's going to be a very, very good quarterback. I'm also excited- But he scored zero touch downs against the Giants.

Okay, well, that was a long time ago. That was last week. Weeks ago. Weeks ago. Decades ago.

Yeah, just as many. Weeks. No, Jaden Daniels looks incredible.

I'm excited to also get mad at hypothetical quarterback lists now, too.

What did you say earlier before Hank interrupted you? You said that You said that you're very excited about something.

Yeah, I'm excited about getting angry. Yeah, life, everything. I'm excited about getting angry at people that I think are slightly disrespecting my quarterback, becoming full stand.

What is your schedule looking like? What's your projection now after last night? You think it's soupy?

No, not thinking it's soupy. You off? I did fire off a tweet at 3:00 AM as I got back from the casino. I had a couple of cocktails, C. J. Abrams style. I I said that I think he's going to win a Super Bowl in the next five years. I think he is.

I like it.

Maybe even two. But Yoffs this year. Love that. We're thinking Yoffs. Yoffs is realistic. I do think that the bangles can make the Yoffs given their schedule. I think Well, Lué Maruno, how do you say his name? Yeah, you got it. Annarumo. He's so good. He's going to-Coach A. He's going to figure something out.

I don't know if they have the dudes. They lost some guys on defense.

Yeah, and then Trent Brown going down was bad, too.

Bad. Best tattoo ever. Two girls sucking him off on his arm. We should talk about the other game real quick. Josh Allen is incredible. I know people will be like,. He's a leader for the MVP right now. He basically... He beat the Jaguars in 30 minutes. Trevor Lawrence helped to beat the Jaguars. He looked bad.

Commanders had a perfect game. Josh Allen had a perfect half. Yeah. And the game was over. It was over.

I mean, Tomar Hamlin picked off Trevor Lawrence, and it was over. But Josh Allen He was toying with them. I'm very happy for Bills fans that the angst of having to reset the roster and everything, you have Josh Allen. Josh Allen is what a franchise quarterback looks like. We've said it a million times, just because he's not Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean he is the second best quarterback in the NFL, and this is why you see it.

It probably is addition by subtraction, losing Diggs. Oh, definitely. And Gabe Davis, who you never knew if he was going to actually be alive week to week basis.

Yeah, Keion Coleman got a countdown.

Keion Coleman. It feels like Josh has turned a brand new page, clean slate for this team, so he doesn't have any of that excess baggage that he used to have. And so now he's just going out there. He's like, I have to win these football games. And also, Cooke is looking really good at running back.

Cooke looks awesome. Shaq here looks awesome.

And as the games get further into the season, gets colder, they're going to lean on that running game. And Joe braided loves to lean on the running game when works. They're not going to abandon it. I think that the bills are for real.

Yeah, it looks awesome.

It was braided at five touch downs to five different players is a sign of a great team and a great quarterback.

And yeah, just Josh Allen, just seeing the game better than anyone right now. He is the leader for the MVP, I think, odds-wise. I mean, he's playing better than Mahomes through three games. Trevor Lawrence might suck. Now, I haven't thought Trevor Lawrence suck because it's the Jaguars, and also he was really good at Clemson, and that guy's somewhere. When he did the spin to nowhere, that was the first time where I was like, Oh, no.

Or the pick to tomorrow.

I mean, the pick was to tomorrow, but the spin to nowhere- Picked off by a dead guy. Bad pics happened. That was a really bad pick. But the spin to nowhere made me... That was a Sam Darnold seeing Ghost moment, where he's literally just... He spun to nowhere. It just made it worse for him.

Yeah. And so I I feel like he's- He got to spun into his own guy. Yeah, it was...

I don't know. I feel bad for chaps. This is an ugly situation. And then we did get to see Mac Jones' first play, fumble, which was very funny. It was perfect. I just punched it out of his hand. I don't know where to go if you're the Jaguars.

Yeah, it seems like-London.

Yeah, go to London.

You're right. When the owner says before the season starts that this is the most talented team he's ever assembled, then that means that it's on the head coach. That means that Doug Peterson-is not long for this world. Might not be. Bring Urban back?

I don't know. It was also one of those games you've seen a lot of- Nothing would look weirder than Bill Belichick. That's the weirdest fit ever.

I just wanted to say that. In a Jaguar's outfit on the sideline.

What he's doing with the Cowboys is so funny. Have you seen that? No. He does McAfee every week, and he just is over-complementary about how well the team is built and they have all the players and all the tools. It's just like they need something to figure it all out. But he's just openly essentially applying for the job being like, Their roster is really constructed great. They have all the tools.

He's got a little bit of Hank Lockwood in. He's got some of that troll going. When he was talking about the Falcons on the Manning cast and saying, Yeah, he's one of those guys that they got in trouble for because they tampered with him. He's just going to scorch. I got a text from Chaps. I just read it right now because I think he sent it during the game and I was drunk and preoccupied. He was in hell. He said, Oh, yeah, same thing. It's cool that Trevor Lawrence is the first guy picked off by a former corpse. Oh, yeah. So Demar is back.

Yeah, Demar is back. Happy for Demar. First interception.

Very happy for Demar.

I love the double Monday night football, double header Monday night football. I know we had a discussion, but that was exactly why, because the Bills Jags game was over in 10 minutes and the Commander's Bengals game was awesome. If we had just Bills Jags, that would have been a really disappointing Monday night.

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to have- We had a backup plan. I like having the standalone because it's good to just... Especially after watching all your screens all day on Sunday, it's good to have one game that we can all focus on together. But if there's a blowout, it's good to have the backup plan. This was a great backup plan.

We have it again next week.

Who do we got?

I believe- Lion Seahawks. Yeah, Lion Seahawks should be great. Then I think it's Dolphins, which is actually good because if they could ever do flex scheduling to schedule it this way, it would work where you're like, This is the game that's going to be a bummer, and this is the game that It should be great. Titans, Dolphins, bummer. But then Seahawks, Lion's to save the day. That will be great. It's like you just basically start your Monday Night Football a little bit early, and you get the Lion Seahawks, which It's going to be awesome.

Yeah, it's going to be a very fun game.

Okay. Should we talk a little college football before we do Hot Seat, Cool Throne, then get to our interview? Let's talk. I don't know where we want to start. We could start... Actually, you know what? Let's start with Tennessee. Tennessee goes down to Oklahoma, throttles Oklahoma. It's very weird watching Oklahoma play football without a good offense, but that's not taking anything away from Tennessee's defense because it feels like Tennessee finally has a defense.

Yeah, and it also feels like the backup quarterback that they put in is probably going to be the starter for Oklahoma. He looked a lot better. What's his name?

Fuck. He was shifty.

He was twice as good as the starter. So I think Oklahoma will improve based on that. But yeah, Tennessee is for real. And Oklahoma, officially Michael Hawkins.

Jackson Arnold was the one who got benched.

So Oklahoma, they're supposed to be SEC now.

Yeah.

They ain't SEC. Not yet. No. It's weird. It is very strange.

I mean, it's all strange. On Friday night, I watched a vaunted ACC matchup of Stanford versus Syracuse.

That's so crazy, isn't it? So crazy.

So Tennessee is for real.

They have some big-time games coming up.

I'm excited because it does feel like Tennessee under the Hypel era. Who Hypel seems like a pretty good dude. He He had a video where it was nice. It was touching because he obviously went to Oklahoma. Venables was his coach. All these things got fired from there. He had a video where he's like, It meant I know you guys brought a little extra juice for me. The social media guy was doing a memes angle because he was just standing underneath Hypele's double chin.

I've thought this about Hypele for a little bit. He desperately needs a beard.

Dude, I don't know if a beard could save it. The problem is he was a A really good quarterback and was very skinny then.

Yeah, he was very athletic. Now, great coach. Yeah. Great coach. His offenses are fun. If you're a Tennessee fan, you're probably... He's the exact perfect coach that you would want, I think, because he's such a college head coach. Yes. He runs such a college offense. You're not going to be in danger of him leaving for the NFL, I don't think. Yeah. Because it's not going to translate.

I guess it just depends on money.

Money, probably. But I'm saying there There are a lot of dumb owners that would probably make that gamble. But he's an awesome, awesome head coach, and I think that what he's put in is pretty repeatable.

Yeah, I'd agree.

Obviously, Nico is a game changer.

Nico's awesome. Nico's awesome. I'm buying Tennessee stock.

Also, the clip, if you're a Tennessee fan, you're just Tennessee porn, the Payton Manning coming out with Morgan Juan in a full Tennessee Jersey with the pants and helmet was... I'm not a Tennessee fan or Payton Manning fan, really, but that clip was hilarious.

What was Morgan wearing?

Probably just, I don't know.

I think he just wears a jersey every time.

The Harrison Bucker jersey every time.

Yeah, he wears a jersey every single time. All right. Speaking of coaches, Josh Hype, we have two coach things I wanted to talk about. One was your JMU almost got Mac Brown resigned, but he didn't, which is one of the funniest things. So JMU put 70 on UNC.

Hung 70 on.

70. They got paid to hang 70 on.

A first half, 50 burger. Yeah.

And they lost so bad that Mac Brown, after the game, told his team in the locker room that he was retiring. And everyone believed it. And then after the game, there was someone from inside the UNC program said he's not retiring. He will be in the office tomorrow and getting back to work. That source said Saturday night, going in and having a normal Sunday.

Sometimes you just got to say things. He just says it. Sometimes you just got to say it, and then you have almost a post-nut clarity afterwards. You're like, Oh, that was stupid. I shouldn't quit. He's driving home. He's like, I really like getting paid. I like being the head coach.

He said afterwards, he said he was disappointed in himself in his reaction by saying that he was going to resign, which I'm all for. I think it's a hilarious reaction. I think that's if you get beat by that bad, just being like, You know what, guys?

I'm done.

Especially when you're old.

Yeah, when you're old. Because it's like, You guys are going to kill me, so I'm quitting. I think in a weird way, he definitely wasn't doing this on purpose, but it's like the Phil Jackson move of you've got a bad team, and now the entire story is about Mac Brown, and it's not about his players.

He also said he clarified afterwards that he didn't fully resign. He said, If you all don't feel like I'm the leader you need, then I'll go do something else. Then everyone was like, No, we still want you to coach. So he rallied the troops after a 70-point loss.

Yeah, he quit, and then the team elected him coach again. Correct. Named him coach. Which tells you He hasn't lost the locker room yet.

Is he the interim coach now?

I think he's the interim coach, Mac Brown. Taking over for Mac Brown. Then the team will decide whether or not to promote him full-time. But yeah, that was an ass-kicking. I think J. M. U. Is really good. I thought this was going to be a down year. I think they're going to be right there competing for the Sun Belt.

Yeah, they look really good. Beating a team that bad to have a coach fake resign, that's got to feel awesome.

It's pretty good. Their offensive coordinator at J. M. U. Is awesome, isn't he, Hank?

Dean Kennedy, a situate kid. I've known him forever. He's two years older than me. He's my sister's age. That's scary. That was when I came in and I was watching that game.

But Hank knows someone who's an offensive coordinator. He's running your team's offense, and he knows Henry Lockwood.

Yeah, he's a stud. I mean, that was-Absolute stud. It's the Holy Cross effect. I was doing some research after because I was like, Dean Kennedy, offensive coordinator of JMU. But he went with the Holy Cross coach. He was there.

Bob Chesney.

And now he's a JMU killing it. People are saying he might be looking at some NFL offers. Who?

Who I'm not saying that.

Me just right now. People.

The other- We're people. So the other coach story was Hugh Fries being an absolute idiot yet again. He had a double whammy. He had a ex-player, Bo Wallace, come out and just say he's the most selfish guy ever. It's always the quarterback's fault. It's never his fault. And then he said on Monday, I love Sam Pitman, and I hope he wins the rest of his games. But I'm telling you the hard truth is we play Arkansas nine more times. We beat them nine times. And that's what's hard to take.

That's loser talk.

They lost 24 to 14 in his quarterbacks through four interceptions, including Hank Brown. Sorry, Hank. He was the next up, Hank.

Yeah, Hugh Fries. I feel like the rope's running a little thin. I think they're getting a little sick of old Hugh Fries down there in Auburn.

Well, I think also Hugh Fries, not that any of these guys are good losers, but Hugh Fries has won a lot everywhere he's been, and getting used to losing, he's not going to deal with it well.

No. I mean, he won from a hospital bet. Yeah.

That was a funny Auburn. It feels like they're in a tough, tough spot. Basically, they just need to lose by two to Alabama in the Iron Bowl. They're like, All right, we're building something.

It'd be an ultimate football guy move if instead of inspiring your team from coaching from a hospital bed, you actually dig your own grave and put up a headstone, and then you're in a casket with an iPad and you're coaching. You guys have killed me. I like that. I like that. God, save my life, boys.

We should probably talk about the big Michigan win, which was old school, smash-mouth football that didn't work for the entire second half. So Michigan beat USC. So Michigan starting Alex Orgy, who can't throw. And they were like, We're just going to run the ball. Usc, they were down early, made some good adjustments to halftime. Going up to the final three minutes, Michigan had nine yards and zero first downs in the second half. And then Khalil Mullings had a 63-yard run, and Michigan survived. And now, I know it's obviously a cliché, but it is very funny that USA's first game in the Big Ten, and you could basically say, Well, they just punched you in the mouth and played bully ball. Those soft California boys couldn't handle it.

Yeah, they couldn't handle the fullback at the end. That was a good block by the fullback.

Holy shit. Max Brettison.

Yeah. He gave him the old chicken wing and post them up almost. Yeah. Michigan, you can spend this very easily and be like, Yeah, we beat you playing old-school Michigan football. But you probably got a little bit lucky at the end, too.

Yeah, because that was a play where they just couldn't do anything, and then they broke a couple of tackles. But you know what? You know what you say? If you're a Michigan fan, a response to what you just said, we leaned on them.

Lean on them.

You lean on them until they break.

They got tired.

You keep running the ball until they break.

It was California Vegan legs. Didn't have the fast twitch. Alex Orgie was seven for twelve for 32 yards after being named the starter. But that might be the formula for Michigan. Just maybe even Don't let him pass the ball. What's the point of having 32 yards passing? Just have zero yards.

I felt like they were going to maybe put in Davis Warren again, who had thrown three picks against Arkansas State last week, and they were still like, No, we'll go with Alex Orgie here.

Did you hear this one? You hear about this? You've seen this?

You read about this?

No, tell me. They call him Orgy because when he's on the field, you got to put eight dudes in the box.

Oh, nice. That's a lot of dudes in the box.

That's a lot of dudes. It's an Orgy.

Yeah, that is. Well, that's a gang bang.

That's a good point.

Yeah, that's not an Orgy. That's definitely not an orgy. Okay.

Yeah. You got to clean that up. Yeah, I'll clean it up. We're still workshopping that one.

All right. Last story I had. I don't know what else you had, PFT, but Travis Hunter should be the Heisman. Thank you. Maybe it's because I bet on him preseason, but Travis Hunter should be the Heisman.

Thank you. That was the other thing I wanted to talk about. I said that on Twitter during the game, and then everybody was like, Well, he is the front runner for the Heisman. No, he's not. No. He's not even close to being the front runner for the Heisman. But if you look at what the Heisman trophy is supposed to be, he is the best football player in college football.

The best football player in college football, maybe the best football. If you said best football player alive right now, you could maybe say that.

I think Jaden's got him.

Travis Hunter, and I think he gets a little knock on it because people have Deion fatigue and all that stuff. If you actually voted for Heisman, how it should be voted, best player, not how every award now gets voted on, which is essentially best team's quarterback, which happens in the NFL and in college football, which sucks. Travis Hunter should be your Heisman trophy winner because he is the best football player in college football. He is averaging 131 snaps per game. 131 snaps per game.

He ranks fourth amongst all receivers with 37 catches and six with 472 yards.

And he's also on defense, has allowed 11 receptions for 75 yards in 142 coverage reps.

It's crazy how good he is. He's show hey for football. And what he did at the end of the game was insane. He forced the fumble at the goal line, won them the game.

Pft, he forced the fumble at the goal line to win them the game, but he also had seven catches for 130 yards. And on the forced fumble, that was his 144th snap of the night.

It's crazy. Now, you could say, is this sustainable? Will he be able to play this many snaps? I think it might be because the haters out there- I know he got hurt last year, but it's fucking insane that a dude He is one of the best wide receivers in college football and the best cornerback in college football.

How is he not the Heisman?

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. He is the Heisman. He should be the Heisman winner. But the haters out there like Brandon Walker, would say it's not sustainable. I think Brandon Walker doesn't know college football. That's Deon fatigue. That's why he's not our college football expert on this show. Yes, that's true. But yeah, Travis Hunter is the best player in college football. But Brandon did walk me through a mental exercise, I think he's right, which is just close your eyes and think about an undefeated SEC team. How is the quarterback of that team not going to win the Heisman Trophy?

I mean, if it's Jelen Milrow.

Jackson Dart, he'd probably win it.

What if it's Quinn yours and he missed a few games?

That's a good point.

That could easily happen.

Do you think if Texas runs the table, it could be Arch?

No, I don't think you're going to lose your job. The Mannings even came out and said it, which of course, they did. They're like, We believe in the process. We believe you can't lose your job to an injury. Very classy.

Very classy them, yeah. I think that they're going to bring yours back unless Arch lights up a real SEC defense. If yours is out long enough, and I'm not talking about Mississippi State, I mean a real SEC defense, if Arch Manning lights them up, then I could see Sark saying, We can't really go back right now.

They could also do like a Jalen Hertz to a thing.

Well, Arch does have... I He does open up the game because his legs.

That's what I'm saying, but they might have the option where it's like, if things are going south, throw Arch in, turn it around.

He did have one bad... He had a bad interception to start the game, maybe because I bet over 13.5 points in the first quarter, and I was watching intently. But then he came back and was awesome.

But also, so back to Colorado real quick. They just play the craziest games all the time.

The Hale Mary, I've never seen anything like it. Dave Aranda, he was going to be fired probably if he won this game. It doesn't really matter. He's running out in Baylor. How do you have back-to-back Hale Marys that both one was completed, the other should have been completed, where you have one guy on a receiver?

Yeah, it was bizarre. But that's what Colorado does. They play in these crazy, crazy endings. It's so much fun. It's so much fun to watch. Then you have the Deon factor, which is if you love them or if you hate them, it's going to be very interesting. It does feel like the Netflix reboot of Tebo Mania. Yeah. They just win. They're just somehow against, yeah, sometimes some bad teams.

I think the winning might- The winning is going to come to an end. Turn this weekend because it feels like I think they're going to UCF, and they're pretty good this year. And then they have some Big 12 Oh, shout out, by the way, Utah, back to their old tricks, Kam Rising. I can't quit him. Kam Rising, they wouldn't tell us if he was going to play or not, and then he played once that. That's just what they do. Kyle Winningham loves... He's addicted to injury reports It's being vague with Kam Rising, specifically.

Keep him guessing. Yeah. We got some good games coming up this week, too.

Oh, yeah. Georgia Bama.

Georgia Bama. I like Bama.

I haven't decided yet.

I don't think Georgia- Pass. Does Georgia have the horses, Big What's that? Specifically in offense.

Yeah, I pass.

Okay. I passed.

I'm passing. Hank. I'll give you an answer on Friday.

You watch a lot of college football. Georgia.

You're taking Georgia? Yeah. Do you know where the game is being No. Bama. You're taking Bama.

Georgia. Okay.

What about the shit guy getting off easy?

Oh, yeah. Burrito guy. So this is just the new trend. We touched on on Sunday, but-Florida State. Florida State won. Yeah, I know. Florida State did win. They beat Cal.

So the guy who said there was the curse of the guy.

Yeah.

That would have been such a great loss, too. Cal was like the memes going into the game. Cal Twitter is awesome. They were going to turn to Calhassie, and they were making these AI-generated images of a bear at the gates of the stadium, confiscating people's guns.

Yeah. Cal Twitter has been so funny because they just leaned into all of the clichés about the University of California, Berkeley. They said they were going to rename it Woke Campbell Stadium. It was this dope Campbell Stadium. When they beat Auburn a few weeks ago, they said that they renamed... It's no longer War Eagle. It's like peace, diversity, and inclusion, Eagle. It's so funny.

They They said that they were going to turn. It was not going to be a checkerboard pattern like Tennessee does, but that Florida State was going to have a rainbow in the crowd. If you're sitting in certain rows, you have to wear a blue shirt, indigo violet. It was very funny.

It was great. It was great. Great week of college football, though. Great week of college football. Yeah. Love college football. Anything else from college football. Travis Hunter should be the highsman. Everyone should tell two people. If everyone tells two people, that's a lot of people we've told.

Yeah, pay it Yeah.

Again, this has nothing to do with what we did. Did you bet him?

What's his odds right now? He should.

20 to 1. I just looked as you were saying.

I will bet him. I will bet him before this episode comes out.

Bet it. He should be. We did it last year with Jaden Daniels.

I know exactly. That's what I was going to say.

We don't know the power of this podcast. I'm not saying that we got Jaden Daniels as a high as him, but we didn't heard it.

Yeah. We should make sure it's to say Travis Hunter should be the high as him. Yeah.

And just every week, even If he has a bad game, he's just like, Well, he played 130 snaps. No one else did that. Okay, let's do Hot Seat Cool Throne. Then we'll get to our awesome interview with Michael Silver in his new book on the NFL. Hot Seat Cool Throne brought to you by Coors Light. College football is never short on intrig, especially when they're iconic rivals. But you can add to the excitement on Saturdays. Coors Light teamed up with DraftKings for the free-to-play college football pick-em pools where you pick winners for a chance to win big. When the rivalries heat up, it's time to choose to chill and then reach for an ice-cold Coors light. When you're looking to keep it chill, there's only one beer to choose Coors light, the mountains on the bottles and cans even turn blue when your beer is cold. Coors light is mountain cold refreshment. Coors light is cold lager, cold-filtered, cold package. When the college football rivalries you're watching heat up, choose chill with Coors Light and DraftKings. Get Coors Light to the straight to your door with Instacart by going to corselight. Com/take21 plus. Eligibility restrictions apply.

Avoid wear prohibited. See terms at draftkings. Com/coorslight. Pick them, celebrate. Responsibly Coors Brewing Company Golden Colorado. Hank, how's he going to talk?

How's he? He's Erling Holland.

Oh, soccer.

We're talking footie.

Talking footie. Did you guys see this? No. Man City beat Arsenal.

Okay.

And Erling Holland, they scored, which I liked, but people were very upset with him. He took the ball out of the goal and was running back, and then there's a defender basically standing in the box facing the other way, and he just threw the ball at the back of his head, an Arsenal guy.Oh, okay.I like that.No easy buckets. Yeah, people were fired up. There was a little scuffle after the game. That shit. People were calling him a scumbag. But I think it's like if you're one of the best players in the world, that's what you do. Yeah.

It would be an honor to have somebody throw a ball at my head if I was beating the shit out of them.

Yeah. No, It was the... Erling Holland won and then just threw it at the back. Oh, Holland?

Yeah, he threw it in his head.

The other guy. He was insult to injury. Okay.

Classless, that's what you're saying.

I like to move. More bad blood than soccer.

Yeah, listen, Man City, you got to stand up for It's a gritty scrappy neighborhood in London, and the people that live there-Beetles are from there. Yeah, they probably like having a player like that who will embody the culture of their city. Agreed.

I have another one. Travis Kelsey.

Oh.

This, I think, is also Contract? No, I think, and I don't really have the hate that I had for the Chiefs when the Patriots were good. But I think it's easier to say that people are getting on Travis Kelsey, hasn't had a good start of the year. They're saying he was going to retire if he didn't have a podcast. But I think when you're the Chiefs and you're back-to-back champs and you know who you are, it doesn't matter that much.

Mahomes has not played great.

But they're still winning. And as long as Travis Kelsey is healthy in the playoffs, he's going to be fine. Correct. They're going to be fine. Yeah, he'll be okay. But I think it's more maybe the Swifties, them getting involved and being like, Why isn't Travis playing well? Is creating a narrative. And they're showing shots of him on the sideline looking sad.

So is it Mahomes' fault?

There's a lot. Wait, no.

Hold on. I would like to do a message real quick. Swifties, are you listening to this? Yes, you are because you're a big-time AWL.

This usually goes well.

Swifties, let's talk heart-to-heart. You love me. I love you. Pnv will I'm not going to pretend that never happened. Travis Kelsey is being blackballed by the Kansas City Chiefs. They're basically shutting him out. They're not letting him play. They're not letting him score. They're not letting him be great. The The name and culprit behind all this is one Matthew Nagui. Okay? Go find him. Actually, don't do that. That's bad. Matt Nagui was the problem. Swifties. I went a little too deep there. They actually are listening to this right now.

My theory, Swifties, is that Brittany is telling Patrick not to throw the ball to Travis anymore because he's a liberal.

Oh. But I thought, Isn't Brittany... She's She's back with T. Swift.

Oh, she's back with T. Got it. T. Rump.

Oh.

Tiana? I think Trump told Brittany to tell Patrick to not throw the ball to Travis Kelsey because he's a liberal.

Again, though, I don't know if we're clear if Trump hates Taylor Swift or not.

You might like her.

This tweet just said, I hate Taylor Swift. That could mean anything.

In a six-year-old teasing way, he might love her.

Gum in her hair.

Yeah.

I like this. Chicks love that. So the Swifties are mad. I like this.

I think the...

It's fucked up. The Swifties, literally, they've done one football season. They've won a Super Bowl. Yeah. I'm going to stop right here.

She exudes the excellence. I did see, and it's like, I think that he was going to retire if he didn't have a podcast. It's a funny, ridiculous narrative, but you might laugh.

Yeah, that is funny. Okay, good job. Oh, Cool Throne.

My Cool Throne is Celtics, NBA. I saw this quote. Celtics had... There was a bunch It was Media Day. I was just- You have to say the Jalen Brown quote. Taking it all in. What the Jalen Brown Pistons one?

Jalen Brown said about the Pistons, We're going to play through Payton. Let him go for 30. Play through Sam. Let him shoot 10 threes tonight. We're going to still win the game. That is the most disrespectful thing you could say about another team just being like, Yeah, our often is going through Payton Pritchard tonight.

We're just a stacked team. They're a deep team. They did all the pictures with the Olympics guys. Jason Tatum was more upfront, being like, Yeah, it pissed me off that I didn't play. I was mad. He basically said he's like, No one was happier about the Olympics than Joe Missoula because he knew that he was going to be able to use that as motivation. Of course. They asked Missoula if he enjoyed celebrating the summer as a champion. He said, I didn't really enjoy the summer. I enjoyed the parade, which I can agree with. The parade was great.

That's the highlight of the summer. Yeah, me too. Spending time with Hank.

But yeah, it's just great. It's great when your team is coming off a championship and it's gearing back up. You get the I can't wait for that. I don't really have the excitement of a Championship potential team with the Patriots, but it's good that Celtics are back.

How was Tateam Zora?

It was great. He's got some new shoes that are releasing. That were awesome.

I was going to ask you about the shoes.

He got the All-Star MVP, tattoo?

He also got a tattoo of himself.

Oh, really?

That's his kiss the trophy.

Big time aura.

I was going to ask you about the shoes.

The shoes are so sick. I'll be getting a pair.

Okay. I did not- These shoes suck. Hank, we had a picture pulled There's also one that's way more green and blue. Yeah, that one.

Fire. Pft.

No, Hank, the way I would talk about these shoes is by saying they look like a pair of shoes that I would wear. Correct.

The way you were about to say it, Hank, was crazy.

That's... Pft comes in with purple shorts, a T-shirt that doesn't match the purple shorts, a brown T-shirt, and those shoes.

If they send them to PFT for free, he'll wear them. That's his barometer of what he wears.

Those are the type shoes, exactly the type of shoes I would wear. Yeah. That's not good.

Yeah, they're hot.

Good job, Hank. Thanks. Pft.

All right. Hot seat, cool to run. Great job. I don't know if I can follow that up. Hank had two hot seats. He was on fire. My hot seat is Penn State students because you got called out twice by Bert Bilema, coach of Illinois.

4-0 Illinois.

4-0 Illinois. Ranked Illinois. Ranked Illinois. They won the tie against Nebraska last week. Bert said that Nebraska is a tougher environment than Penn State, than Happy Valley. And then he doubled down on it by saying that they're going to be doing a whiteout. And he said, bringing the whiteout energy, whatever the hell that means. So he's fired up.

Well, James Franklin said that. James Franklin in his postgame said that I need the-Whiteout energy?

I need the whiteout energy. Yeah, but then-What is Brett doing?

Yeah, I mean, they're also 17 and a half point dogs.

But then he whatever the hell that means.

Well, I mean, that's just what James Franklin said. He was just like... James Franklin said it at his postgame press conference. He was like, Next week's a big game. I need the fans to come out. I need whiteout energy.

Does that mean that they're going to cover up their mistakes? That is a Penn State thing.

No, you see in college football, Penn State has this tradition where they do the whiteout one game a year.

The whole stadium is white.

It's a really big thing in college football.

I'm well aware of the whiteout, Max. We've discussed it on this show, how you guys burn your whiteouts on lame games.

Minnesota last year.

That's Fox's fault. Fucking Big Ten kickoff is big noon kickoff is bullshit.

Okay. But I guess he's kicking the hornets nest. We'll see what happens. No.

I will. Yeah.

What?

You want to finish that?

If Penn State loses, you'll shove a burrito up your ass? No.

Want to finish that sentence?

If Penn State loses, you have to tear a statue down somewhere.

What? No. I'm not saying any I'm not really-Fillies.

That's your answer.

I'm going to be worried about that right now. Then my cool throw is just lists in general, because with the Diddy stuff coming out. Hank has been deep in it. Yeah, Hank is really deep into it. Would you ask me, do I think Tom Hanks is involved?

No, he said no. His direct quote was, What are your thoughts on Tom Hanks, PFT?

Yeah, I don't know. He's a good actor. Forrest Gump rocked. That's pretty much the start. Oh, Captain Phillips was good, too. Actually, he's been in a lot of good stuff, but there's some speculation that there's going to be lists coming out about-They never come out, though. Who is at the freak parties. The list never come out. They never come out. They tell you that there's a list, and it's a distraction so that you can come up with your own fan fiction, like a fan fiction, like a lore universe that you make up and you're like, Here's who's going to be on this list.

There'll be some fake lists that come out. It'll look like real lists.

I think there's already been some fake lists that come out. But yeah, there's some weird stuff. What's crazy about the Diddy thing is you can go back and watch Diddy, like admitting to be a weirdo in real time. Everybody was just like, Yeah, Diddy's crazy.

It's crazy that everyone knew this. I feel like I was the last to know. I had no idea.

You think we'd known about Biggie? What? He might have killed Biggie. I heard that.

Oh, no.

Is that your theory? Street's just saying.

Yeah, I don't think the list will ever come out. They never do.

But they love making you think that there's a list that's going to come out. Yes.

Also, other celebrities have been coming out, denouncing denounced.

I denounced him as well. I denounced P. D. D. D.

Denounced this podcast, denounced as Hank.

I think Theo came out with something that was like, I had nothing to do with P. D. D. Or any of his parties. Which is a weird thing. It makes you think that.

Meek Mill, the funny Meek Mill who's like-Yeah, he's going through it. He's in a million pictures videos. He definitely was in P. D. Circle, tweeted like, I'll pay 100 grand if someone could figure out why I'm always getting brought up with the P. Ditty stuff.

It's like, I would like to defend our- You've been with him for five years. I would like to defend, maybe this is a mistake, but there's that one video that's going around where Diddy does a cheers with Jay Z and a bunch of people and Leonard Furnett somehow in it. That always makes me laugh, play off Lenny. I'm going to back play off Lenny.

Yeah. Until proven otherwise.

Until proven otherwise. Yeah.

He's our friend. Also Meek Mill- That was a Rock Nation brunch, not a Diddy party.

Oh, there we go. Boom. Back play off Lenny.

For the record, Meek Mill is 100% straight. His When I got a girl around me, I'm fucking her twice a day. Oh, hell, yeah. Ask some of your favorites. Pussy don't control me, but it's like a high. One love to the gay people, but that juicy pussy, do it for me. I done ran red lights to get that feeling. You all weird on here. Hell, yes. Suck on that one, haters.

That is sick.

That's the greatest thing you can ever say. That's a sick quote.

That's so sick. That's what reminds me of the old Diplo tweet, Doing girls is cool, but doing work lasts way longer, more fulfilling.

I like that. Doing Girls. You remember when Mike Piazza had a press conference to announce that he was straight? Yep. That was funny. That was funny.

All right, my hot seat is anyone who's ever bashed Dylan Raiola because I'm all the way in on him now. He's got a brother who committed to Nebraska, Daten Raiola, and he looks like Jackson Mahomes. Are you serious? In this one picture, he looks like Jackson Mahomes, PFT, and now it's the funniest thing I've ever fucking seen. I'm all in on these guys.

That's what I was wondering.

When he dropped the Jackson Mahomes, I'm like, Fuck, yes. It went from this is weird to I'm all in. I'm sorry for everything I've said. If this guy can start doing it, if Daten Reola, can start doing TikToks and looking more and more like Jackson Mahomes, it is one of the funniest things that's going on the internet.

I wonder if Dylan is making his brother participate in his fantasy world and telling him how to dress, you have to look like this guy, or if it's just natural.

It could definitely be.

That would be so funny.

Yeah, I'm all the way in. Then my Cool Throne is- Don't let Mr..

Willa Drive a car. That's all I'll say. Yes, that's true.

Dominic is his name. He played in the NFL, and he was a fucking mean, mean guy. Player, that is. Center. My Cool Throne is Memes. Memes, you're on my Cool Throne. Because you see Rodgers on McAfee? He said that the report that there was chaos in the locker room for the Jets before the season was from Hassan Reddick's agent, which now makes more sense. So that was just never a true story. Hassan Reddick's agent basically planned that to try to create chaos. I even saw there was a guy who said, When it first came out, a random Jets fan said, Shut up, bitch, and then @torydandy, the guy's the agent's name, and then the agent blocked him right away. That's proven guilty in the court of the internet.

So no problem?

No, it was Hassan Reddick's agent. No problem. Aaron Rodgers also might have leaked that ex-agent.

Fired.

Oh, he did? That's what Aaron Rodgers said. That was the exact quote. He said ex-agent. He said former agent. Oh, so you might be back. Might be all the way back. Oh, you're double cool thrown. So people think Aaron Rodgers might have leaked that and stuff's going on behind the scenes, but nobody's actually reported anything.

Shout out to Hassan Redik because it sounds like he's a very loyal guy. His agent was costing him millions of for not playing, and he didn't fire him until right now.

It feels like his agent was like, I know what we'll do. We'll say the locker room is bad, and they'll give you all the money.

That'll be good.

This will definitely work. My master plan. My genius plan. Okay, should we get to our interview? Great interview. Michael Silver in Studio with his new book talking about football. Before we do that, The Farmer's Dog, the days are warmer, the walks are longer. One easy way to help your dog shine this season is with fresh healthy food from The Farmer's Dog. The Farmer's Dog makes real fresh dog and delivers it right to your door. Recipes are delivered by a vet nutritionist made from real meat and veggies and portion just for your dog, making it easy to say goodbye to burnt brown balls and feed your dog real food with real benefits. It's smart, healthy pet food. You can feel good about feeding your pup. It's the best option for dogs of all life stages because it's not kibble, it's not Kangoo, it's real healthy food. The Farmer's Dog isn't just fresh, high-quality food. They also send food pre-proportioned, specifically for your dog, based on their unique needs. Stella is a farmer Farmers Dog. Blake is a Farmer's Dog. We love Farmer's Dog. The Farmer's Dog released a new commercial telling the story of a dog's unconditional love for its human and reminds us that no matter what happens in our day, we can always feel good about doing our best for our canine companions, especially through feeding them Farmer's Dog.

Check it out on their Instagram at theFarmer'sDog and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog. Com/pmt. Plus, you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog. Com/pmt to get 50% off. That's thefarmersdog. Com/pmt. We're also brought to you by our friends at Amazon. Thursday Night Football is on prime video this Thursday. Cowboys going up to MetLife Stadium, playing the Giants. Join now Michael's Kirk Herb Street and Kaylee Hartung as these NFC East teams meet up. Coverage begins at 07:00 PM Eastern with football's best party, TNF Tonight Live from MetLife Stadium. Not a prime member, not Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30-day risk-free trial, and you can cancel at any time. It is the Cowboys at the Giants, 07:00 PM Eastern on Thursday Night Football, and it's on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See amazon. Com/amazon. Com/amazon. Com. On Prime for details. All right, here he is, Michael Silver. Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest. In studio, it is accomplished NFL writer, Big Jay journalist, Mike Silver, Michael Silver. Drinking buddy. Drinking buddy. There's some questions we got to get to about Hugh Jackson, but let's talk about your new book, which is called The Why is Everything: A Story of Football Rivalry and Revolution.

It's out on hard cover October first. I'm going to buy it on Kindle. Just so you know, I just want to get that out there. I know it's a little cheaper on Kindle, but that's how I consume books. I just wanted to just let that out there.

I think any way you want to consume, add As we established the first night we met, any consumption, we're not judging. Yeah, it works.

Yeah, audiobooks, that's fine. Now, can you say, I read a book when you listen to the book?

It's like the reporter trick where you say, I talk to Jared Goff, but really, we texted. Sometimes I'll go, Well, we've communicated, or Jared Goff said, but I think I talked to is skewing it. I think you just go, That book was great. I loved every second of it.

I enjoyed that book. Yeah, I loved every second of it. I enjoyed it. All right, so the Why is Everything is the name of the book. So let's start with the Why. Why did you decide to write this book?

Well, I'm old. Go back to me covering the 49ers as a young beat writer. Mike Shanaehan showed up as George Seyfort's offensive coordinator, really trying to resurrect his career. What year was this? 1992. And He'd been fired by Al Davis ingloriously after a couple of years as a young head coach. He'd been fired by Dan Reeves in Denver and accused of insubordination. Basically, he and John Elway, Dan Reeves charged, had gone behind the head coach's back. It was this big scandal. So he was a broken man. And meanwhile, Joe Montana hurts his elbow. Steve Young is there. And even though the rest of the country is like, God, this guy's an incredible quarterback, everyone in San Francisco is like, he's not Joe. He runs too much. He doesn't read defenses. It's a mess. He literally won the passing title, and fans would be like, Get rid of him. He stinks. Mike Shanaher taught Steve Young that offense in a way that changed Steve Young's career, changed Mike Shanaher's career, and vaulted Mike Shanaher to the head coaching job in Denver, where he took that Bill Walsh offense and did Outside Zone. Now you have the modern Shanaher offense.

And so then we pick up in Washington. I've always been fascinated by that coaching staff in the early 2010s with Mike Shanaher. And no one in football history is going to look back and go, Wow, the early 2010 Redskins. What an incredible run.

We had 10 weeks with RG3 that were pretty good.

Thank you.

But in the football community, that's always been this mind-blowing thing, what they did. They took a guy who had no pro-style experience or linked to it in RG3. They took their existing offense and morphed it into a pistol on the fly and caught everybody off guard. I mean, you remember, they gained a third of their passing yards that season on one play called Drift, where he fakes a handoff, turns, throws blindly over where the linebackers would be, but the linebackers have come up. He was the rookie of the year, not Andrew Luck, not Russell Wilson. It was revelatory. So, yes, the dysfunction of the Redskins ultimately took that staff down. And Mike Shana had down, but it was seismic. And so the five people on the cover are Kyle Shana had, who was the Office Coordinator, and fellow assistants, Sean McVay, Matt Lafleur, Mike McDaniel, and Raheem Morris. And obviously, They are now all in very prominent positions. That's the jumping off point, but then you get all the petty and the rivalry and the dysfunction and the love occasionally. You know these guys. I've known these guys for so long, and I've been around it and been out drinking with them and heard all of their various idiosyncratic ways of looking at things.

I've just always felt like something's going on here. They're doing it a different way. What they did with RG3 to, instead of just say, This is our system and we're going to run it, but just deconstruct and think in an abstract way, really goes against the tenets of old-school meathead football, which really permeated the NFL for so long, which was, We do it because it works. It's what Bill Walsh did. Why do we call it the Flanker? I don't know. That's what Bill Walsh called it. So they ask why a lot, and then want to be able to explain why to their players constantly.

It's interesting because this book basically is why the NFL is the way it is today, because it's whatever it is, a quarter 15% of the head coaches all are part of this system and everything that's come off of it.

And really more because Kevin O'Neill, Zack Taylor, Robert Sala. You really could make a case it's like a third.

Yeah, there's a coaching tree. The coaching tree is crazy.

Yeah. Tomeco Ryan, although on the defensive side.

Yeah, Dabiko Ryan and Bobby Sloick. Bobby Sloick.

He was on that staff, too, wasn't he?

He was. Shane Waldron.

That's great.

Shane Waldron. Probably rough start for Shane Waldron this year, but I think he's a shrewd guy who will figure it out.

It does feel like NFL offense has changed so much that year, and it rippled across the league, like you said. I don't think that we've had an offensive innovation that's been that pronounced since 2012, have we?

No. The innovation off that immediately was McVeigh speeding it up and then going 11 personnel and using the receivers as blockers on the outside. But they've had to innovate from that. It really was a way of thinking, though, that has now permeated the NFL more, which is instead of We have always done it this way, it's, Let's just deconstruct everything and be willing to innovate and be creative from a starting out point and The willingness to do that is definitely new.

Yeah, amongst these guys, let's get to some of the juicy stuff. Amongst these guys in this room, it seems like it was a very collaborative effort, and they all root for each other. I know they've done podcasts together, they've done media together. At the time, were there any rivalries between these two, or was it all just like, Okay, let's work towards this common goal?

Well, first of all, there's a chapter in there called enemy Friends, which is how Rahim Morris describes Kyle and Sean, and enemy first for a reason. They're friends, but they definitely have... There's an edge to it. There was a big falling out with Kyle and Matt Lafleur that I get into that is an incredible story that is centered around the drama leading into that draft, the night of the draft when they took Trey Lance. One of the… Zack Wilson, two. Trey Lance, three. Anyway. But yeah, in Washington, I liken it to… I'm in Northern California. Imagine Silicon Valley in the early days, and you've got Steve Jobs and Andy Grove and all these visionaries at one company, Young, hustling, all rushing, Hey, what if we try this? No, I got this idea, where it was encouraged to make these suggestions, and they'd all run to Kyle Shanaher, and he'd decide what to use and what not to use. It was a collaboration and a healthy competition back then.

It's fascinating because these are always just going back to coaching staffs when you had... I think the The other one is the packers in the '90s when they had what, Gruden, Andy Reid, and all these guys on the staff. Andy Reid. Andy Reid. Going back in these time capsules along the NFL and you look at these coaching staffs, you're like, Holy shit. They had this type of brainpower that then goes out and spreads everywhere in the NFL. My curiosity about how we've evolved in the NFL is, why did it take so long for everyone else to catch up and be like, Hey, these guys are really smart. Is it just an organization failure across the league where it's like, We want to do the thing that's always been done, and now this new age shit is scary? It feels like we're there now where everyone's starting to think outside the box. But there's a little bit of tension that goes along with anything new.

Yeah, and they have flaws. Kyle Shanaher has a very brusque style that wasn't very conducive to bonding with players. He's gotten a lot better. They were very sure of themselves and sure they were right and didn't really like hiding that. That could be cool if it's working. But the other element of this, and I know Eric will be excited, but the dysfunction seemed to find them, right? You had them all at Washington. Well, enough said, right? Dance Night or et cetera. Then Kyle goes to Cleveland. Talk about our Hugh Jackson Association. A lot of people have gotten caught up in that hell hole. He famously fought his way out after a year. Remember, that was the Ray Farmer texting scandal. The general manager was texting assistant coach Dawa Loggins to tell Kyle, among other things, You should play Johnny Madzell, right? Kyle had Mike McDaniel write up a 32-point memo of reasons he should be let out of his contract, and it ultimately worked. Holy shit. Then he goes to Atlanta, and after that first year with Matt Ryan in Atlanta, there's a question about whether he's going to get fired by the Falcons. They end up having this summit meeting in Southern California, which is described in the book.

It's been called... Matt Lafleur called it our Kumbaya sessions. Somebody called it marriage counseling. But basically, They're gathering at Tom House and Adam Dadeo's place.

And who's gathering?

This is Matt Ryan, Kyle Shannehan, who are the two guys who need to work stuff out. Dan Quinn and Matt Lafleur, the quarterback coach, with these two quarterback gurus, Tom House and Adam Dadeo, that Matt Ryan's working out with. Famously, a few things were said, but at one point, Tom House is trying to describe Matt Lafleur's role as getting caught in the middle between Kyle Shana and Matt Ryan. He says, Matt, you're the taint.

That's a good analogy.

No one wants to be the taint.

That's fascinating, though. That tension that works, and then you get success out of it because having that meeting, they get to the Super Bowl. Obviously, they were up 25 in the Super Bowl. Hard to do.

Hard to do.

Is that true? It's hard to be up 25 points in the Super Bowl. They were winning the You could say that Dan Quinn is a Super Bowl winning head coach.

He was winning by 25.

I heard it was 28 to three.

Yes. Matt Ryan wins an MVP, and that launches Kyle Shanaan and then Matt Lafleur, right? Yes. That meeting obviously worked.

It really did. So, yes, eventually, they have all ascended, and now they just fight it out amongst each other and try to keep their prodigies. I mean, look what the Saints are doing. That's a Kubiak.

That's another- He's part of the tree as well.

Yeah. But in Washington, that RG3 year, even amid the rest of the league being blown away and defense is not being able to stop it. So you'll remember the Cleveland game that year? Yep. Kirk Cousins. Rg3 gets hurt. And now, Kirk Cousins, who they'd also drafted that year, which was a Kyle Shanaher favorite pick, has got to play in Cleveland, and they run a more traditional Shana Hadd offense game plan with a lot of boots, the fake handoff and the rollout. And Kirk Cousins goes wild in that game, and they win. So now, here's the postgame scene. Dan Snyder barrels through the locker room, goes right past Kirk Cousins, who is having this glorious moment, almost steps on him to get to Robert Griffin and say, Hey, don't worry. It's okay. You're still my guy. Kirk is just standing there. It's super awkward. While this is happening, RG2, Robert's father, who was very involved, has managed to somehow get in the locker room and he's all over Mike Shana had. Man, why didn't you call any running plays? Mike's like, He can run on those boots. He just chose to throw out. We want to run those plays with Robert.

Robert comes too early, probably because he's threatened by that.

All in for year two. I remember that.

Yeah. That playoff game where he ends up tearing up the knee, and that's the beginning of the end was horrible. But in most people's minds, well, he'll get surgery and they'll come back and they'll build on this and it'll be amazing. There's a scene in the book where Mike Shanaher, at the end of that season, because of how he feels about Robert, because he thinks Dan Snyder is so invested in believing that Robert's really a pocket passer, and we're going to change him, and we're going to show, and he's my guy, Mike Shanahert ends up recommending to Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen, the GM, and the other owners, We should trade Robert now. We know he's not really what people think he is. The league is going to catch up, and it's not going to work out the way you think. His value is amazing. We might get back the three ones we gave up, and we can play with Kirk. Mike Shanahert has it all figured out. He's like, This is the best idea ever. It did not go over well.

In retrospect, that would have been a good play. That would have gotten a lot of people on their ass if they'd done that. It seems insane to actually do something like that after you win Rooky of the Year, though.

It would have been viewed as insane, in fairness, even by me. But those are the type of moves, too, where you're thinking ahead, where a Belichick was famous for it.

Get rid of guys a year early instead of a year late and stay ahead of the curve.

Here's Another weird thing. Peyton Manning was free before that 2012 season, coming off the next surgeries. Mike Shanaher absolutely had interest, and Payton was going to be in Denver anyway meeting with the Broncos. They set up a meeting at Mike Shanahan's house with Mike and Kyle. Kyle, who is a football nerd and thinks Payton is the all-time best at the line of scrimage, the general, he's so fired up. Mike Shanahern flies to the Bahamas to meet with Dan Snyder, presumably on his very small boat. I'm sure it's tiny. They're off on the boat. Kyle's in his office prepping for his meeting with Payton Madding. He's so excited. They both get in the air. Mike is flying to Denver from the Bahamas. Kyle is flying from Dulles. While they're in the air, and this is pre-good Wi-Fi, Bruce Allen, at Dan Snyder's behest, trades with the Rams way before the draft for all those pics. Now we know they're picking RG3. Kyle lands, finds out about it. He's like, Oh, well, there's obviously no meeting. Mike says, No, no, no. We We could still get Payton Roberts for the future. Kyle preps. Peyton comes to the house.

He and Kyle watch film for a couple of hours. They're totally vibing. It's the greatest meeting ever. Kyle's so fired up. Peyton leaves and Kyle says, Dad, do you really think we still have a chance to get him? Mike goes, No.

We're drafting Robert.

So he just let Kyle down easy. Yeah. So, yeah, history could have been way different.

There's just so many sliding doors moments for my happiness that we're going over right now. Things could have been so different.

Then the funny thing is, 2013 is one of the all-time dysfunction junction seasons. That was my first season at NFL Network, and I was doing Thursday nights at halftime, and then game day morning with Ian Rappaport. I was being like his Mourt, may he rest in peace, for his Adam. We were all over the Redskin dysfunction, and I remember laughing. I'm like, Dan Snyder is used to dealing with Jim Zorn. He has no idea about the Mike Shana had ability to navigate this feud. He ends up getting fired, and Mike goes in for his exit meeting with the other owners. He says, Okay, I'm going to give you guys some advice. Take it or leave it. You need to trade Kirk Cousins. They're like, Huh? He goes, There's no coach who's going to come in here and believe, ultimately, that Robert is better than Kirk Cousins. Trade him because it's going to be an issue.

It's going to be a problem. That's fascinating. Are you surprised that Mike Shanahan never got another job? Because it does feel like he's such an innovator and such an accomplished coach that You'd think a team would want him. I remember even, I think it was 2015-ish. '15 maybe? '15 or '16, when the bears hired John Fox, he was a name that was being thrown around. It's like, why is this guy who knows so much about football, who has all this incredible resume, why has he not gotten another job?

Yeah, I agree with you. He did talk to the Raiders of all teams at one point, Postal, and the Niners. He should be in the Hall of Fame right now. There's no question. I hope this book helps make that case. There is something at 49er headquarters referred to as the Shana Cam, which basically means Mike Shana needs to watch meetings and practice ASAP virtually. That's awesome. Some people think he's the Shadow GM. I think that's an exaggeration, but this is incredible. Because I was doing this book full force, I spent a bunch of time with him in May and June of 2022. And so in those conversations, I would ask about Trey Lance, of course, and Jimmy, and he kept talking about Brock Purdy because he'd seen some mini camp tape. I was like, God, He's weirdly into Brock Purdy, but whatever. He's the 260-second pick. Now, they open against the bears. It's Trey Lance's first game as the unquestioned starter. The day before, I go to Mike Shana Hans' room, and I'm sitting up there, and I'm asking him about Trey Lance, and he again brings up Purdy, and he says, When you have a guy like that in your building, you don't let him out.

I'm like, Are we talking about thinking? So he still got it.

Yeah, this is why I'm saying, how is he not... Like, Brock Purdy is a guy who it took him going to a Super Bowl for everyone to be like, Okay, maybe he's actually really good. Mike Shanaher, before he even takes a snap, the NFL is like, This guy is going to be good.

And in fairness, even Kyle, who's great at this, didn't really know what he was. Obviously, I don't know if Mike thought all this before the draft to this degree, but when I was seeing him, he'd seen a few of the OTA tapes, and he was just like, I don't know. Then meeting the kid, he's just for all the... He looks like he's going to class at Iowa State, right? The backpack. He's very polite and very personable. I don't know if you guys I haven't met him yet. We haven't. I think you'll really like him, but he's a Stone Cold killer, too.

That's fascinating. Why hasn't a team hired Mike Shannon as a GM?

I think if I'm in the rare position where I have receipts. I have this on tape. He's talking about Brock Purdy in June of 2022. That's so nuts. Like he's an elite NFL starting quarterback. That's incredible.

But it also sounds like his son's the head coach. It'd be hard to hire him as a GM for another team. The 49ers essentially got just a great asset that's going to work for free for them.

What if the Harbaughs and the Shana Hans somehow all got crossed up?

I I think the Harbaughs would murder them. If there was an actual family rivalry, I'd take Jim Harbaugh over any of those guys. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it would be hard for me to imagine a less tense atmosphere than a Harbaugh family versus any other family competition in anything. True alphas.

Yeah.

You spent a lot of time around the league. I know that you were around New Orleans. You knew what was going on during Bountygate. I feel like that's something that we don't talk about enough anymore. It hasn't been forgotten, but we don't talk about it as much as we used to besides the Kevin James movie. What was your knowledge of Bounty Gate as it happened and how it came out in all that aftermath?

Well, I did get caught up in it, and it's funny because this story is going to ultimately lead to Jeff Fisher, who I know we share an affinity for. We love, yes. Before I was too close to Hugh Jackson, I was also too close to Jeff Fisher, who also got turned into a cartoon character by America. You did, yeah. It's 2012. Greg Williams has already left to go to the St. Louis Rams as their new defensive coordinator, a couple of years removed from the Super Bowl. Sean Payton has been suspended, along with Greg Williams and others, because the NFL has decided that they have evidence that the Saints, I would say, allegedly, based on the evidence now, we're paying players explicitly to injure opponents. This is as the concussion lawsuit is going on, and the NFL is looking for a way desperately to say, Man, we care about health and safety. They had some other issues with Sean Payton. Great stories that don't have to do with that. It was already weird. It's also Tom Benson. I think you could do that to Tom Benson easier than you could do it to Robert Kraft or Jimmy Jones.

Easy owner to pick on. So Sean Payton gets suspended for a year. While this is all going on, I learn of the existence of this audio tape that documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphalon had in his possession. He was working at the time with Steve Gleason on what ultimately became a documentary because he'd been diagnosed with ALS, a former Saints player. Steve Gleason was a guest of the team in this meeting before a playoff game against the 49ers in 2011, 2011 season. Greg Williams is caught on audio tape saying things like, kill the head and the body will die. Greg Williams is one of those guys that if you take him literally, I relate. If you take him literally, it doesn't go well. He's very over the top. He says things for effect. But he did seem to, according to Pamphalot, be literal in that he made the money sign with his hands at one point, I got the first one, meaning, I'll pay that fine, which would cross the line. It was the smoking gun the NFL felt it needed to show the world, See, this is out of control in New Orleans. I get ready to write this blockbuster story for Yahoo Sports.

Unfortunately, I had just finished with Jeff Fisher in Indy at the Combine, asking and receiving permission be in the Ram's war room in the upcoming draft, which is a big get for Yahoo and me. I'm all excited. Now, Jeff Fisher's defensive coordinator is going to be even more disciplined because there was a chance that suspension was going to get reduced. I'll never forget. When Jeff called me back, I had to tell him what was going on. He just goes, How bad? I go, Well, given that it's Greg, it's about as bad as you can imagine. At At that point, I just assumed that if not Jeff, his owner or somebody would say to him, We're not letting that guy in our draft room. He just ruined our life even more. But amazingly, Jeff calls and says, When are you coming out? He said, Why don't we have dinner the night before? So now we're outdoors in Clayton, Missouri, having dinner, drinking wine. He's telling me about what they're going to try to do in the draft. By the way, that was the Michael Brocker's Brian Quick draft, where they got two cute. I was there, wanted Bobby Wagner, but thought, Let's get him with the second of our two picks in this round because we want to get Isaiah Peed, the immortal running back, and then lost Bobby Wagner to the Seahawks.

Jeff says to me with a twinkle in his eye, I want you in the room, but I also want you to have a workstation and for times where we really need to have a sensitive conversation to kick you I do have a vacant office, and literally, I set up shop for three days in Greg Williams' vacant office somehow after breaking the kill the head body. Oh, my God.

We're going to get back to Michael Silver in a second. He's brought to you by Bluechew. You can have better sex with Bluechew. Bluechew is the original brand offering chewable tablets. These erection-enhancing tablets help men achieve stronger, harder, and longer-lasting erections for sexual activities, and it's all done from the comfort of home. With Blue Chew, say goodbye to performance anxiety. Say hello to stronger, longer lasting erections. These chewable tablets have the same active ingredients that you'd find in Viagra, Cialis, and Lovitra, but in chewable form and at a fraction of the cost. Blue Chew is all about having confidence when it comes time to perform and having healthy, happy, and healthy relationships. Blue Chew subscriptions include a free online consultation, 24/7 medical support, and delivery straight to your door every single month. Chew it and do If you want more confidence in the bedroom, use code PMT for your first month for free. You get a free month in your first month at bluechew. Com, promo code PMT. Check them out. Thank you to Bluechew for sponsoring this pod. The interview is also brought to you by Wolfs, streaming September 27th on Apple TV+. It's a new action-comedy movie, starring George Clooney and Brad Pitt, streaming on Apple TV+ on September 27th.

The story takes It's placed all on one wild night in New York City. You got George Clooney, you got Clooney and Pitt. They start as two rival fixers who are both called in to help cover up the same crime. Over one explosive night, they'll have to set aside their petty grievances and their egos to finish the job. What does it mean to be a wolf? It means three things. A wolf solves any problems, a wolf leaves no loose ends, and a wolf usually works alone. But not this time. Wolfs, streaming September 27th on Apple TV+. Now, here's more Mike Silver. Back to Bounty Gate, though, the smoking gun that you said. In a team meeting, he said, Kill the head, the snake will die, or whatever, the body will die. Then he says, I got the first one. Does the money sign implying, I'll pay for your fine if you hit the quarterback too hard. Yes. I think almost every defensive coordinator around the league has said and done stuff like that in meetings, at least at the time. Maybe they've been more careful since then. What was it about Greg Williams in particular that made NFL target the Saints?

I think it was Sean Payton. There had been another scandal that had quietly gone away because of the arbitration clause that kept it from being public. But there was a scandal. That involved missing pills at the Saints facility, Vicodin, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. But there were a lot of pills missing, and there was some word or accusation that Sean Payton had been involved in that and trying to cover that up. I think there was a general feeling that Roger Goodell believed These guys are out of control. Sean, who I love, was Bill Parcell's train, so there was the secrecy and the the weirdness in general. Again, it was Tom Benson, someone you could make an example of. There was another incident during one of the London games at Wembley, where they did a walk through the day before, and the security people told Sean Payton, You guys are going to come out before the game, and you guys are going to go through this tunnel. You know how NFL coaches are. It's gospel. That is the tunnel. We were told. And on game day, when they tried to go through the assigned tunnel, it had been changed, and they really wanted Sean to go a different way, and he didn't want to.

I believe the story goes that he just pushed through a security official, may have been a British security official, not like he beat him up, but it got a little physical. And that got back to Roger, and I think that was another instance where he was like, This guy. Again, it's disturbing to me in that they did a Mueller Report independent commission thing to try to prove that they had it. They used Paul Tagliabeou, of all people, the former Commissioner who was a lawyer. The report was not real friendly to the NFL. It was like, There's this audio from a game where somebody, was it Bobby? Somebody allegedly says, Give me my money, Bobby. But it's not really clear that that's exactly what he It was flimsy evidence at best. Or that he said it.

It was a witch hunt.

If you're a Saints fan, you go, They had it out for our team. And again, there were some other reasons that might have been true. If you're a cynic like me, who then went to work for the NFL, all. But if you're a cynic like me, you say, They were looking at an existential threat with the head trauma, which they were culpable for. They had to beat their chest and show the world, We care about players' safety.

We care about safety. Let's do 17 games, but we care about safety.

That's for 17. Yeah, it's playing random stadiums across the world that are not good playing surfaces. Yeah, right. We care about safety.

Oh, World Cup we're hosting? Fifa needs grass?

Oh, yes, FIFA. Yeah, right.

Let's change it to grass. Right. Oh, NFL guys? No, sorry.

Yeah. You were talking about that Ram's War Room. I don't think about this guy at all, but it sounds like that's the same draft that they drafted Michael Sam.

No, I actually repeatedly got in the Ram's War Room because I was a friend of the coach. You're such a good guest. Yeah, I was a guest. Now at netflenetworknetfl. Com, I was there the year they took Michael Sam. They had two picks at the end of the seventh round. Michael Sam had been the SEC Defensive Player of the Year. To a casual fan or to someone like me, even, it was like, Well, that guy's going to get drafted. He's an edge rusher who was the player Defensive Player of the Year in the best conference. But scouts didn't love him for football reasons. And so he was also openly gay. The NFL had never had an openly gay player, and things have changed a lot. But at the time, that felt super heavy. So Jeff Fisher is on the phone as their picks are coming in the seventh route, and he looks a little serious, and he hagues up, but he stands up. And the Rams one of those war rooms that everybody's in. Like the Patriots, it would be like Bill Belichick, Scott Pioly, and only two other people. Maybe we'll let the running backs coach come in for five minutes.

But the Rams are like, It's the scouts, it's ownership, it's all the front office people and me. Jeff tells the room with Pick 240, whatever, We are taking Michael Sam from Missouri. And people get chills because it's history. And at that point, you're pretty far ahead of the telecast. So we have a few minutes to be the only ones who know, like this is going to be cool and it's historic, and we're waiting and waiting, and the pick gets officially turned in. So now we know it's happening for sure. We're waiting and waiting, and then the pick is made. And it's like everybody's just look at each other like, We were there. It's pretty cool. Right. Well, then they cut They had cameras on Michael Sam in his house. I don't know if you remember this, but Michael and his boyfriend at the time, I think his name was Veto, celebrated the moment, and there was a cake, smushed face, licking off of fingers situation going on. It definitely changed the vibe in the Ram War Room, not judging in a homophobic way as much as just, Yeah, that's not very football. It just flared people out.

I'm not even sure of the person who said it, and I don't want to ID him. But one person broke the tension by saying something the effect of Damn. Usually, you got to be in the league a minute before you start getting the white bitches.

What a story. Oh, man. All right, so I got a big football question for you. Someone once told me, and it stuck with me ever since, that in the NFL, there are a handful of teams that are actively trying to win a Super Bowl, organizations that are actively trying to win a Super Bowl, doing the right things, investing in the team. And then there's 20 organizations that basically are saying, Hey, if we catch lightning in a bottle, cool, but otherwise, we're just going to print money. Is that a fair, accurate thing to say?

Yeah, and it's been a thing. And so it's weird because for all my lefty, Berkeley, Grateful Dead, all my heritage, I'm super free market on the NFL. I'm Adam Smith, right? I used to call these old owners, Pollet Bureau bosses, because they would stand in their breadline and they would take their guaranteed TV revenue, which guarantees you a profit. The NFL has a lot of communist-like sensibilities. Worst, she'll be first, the draft, the schedule, the salary cap, they control costs, they share all the revenue. There was not a lot of incentive back in the day to market. The bears are traditionally undermarketed. The Chicago bears. The Raiders just were like, Why would we market? Where are the Raiders? The bangles still And so, Eddie DiBardelow, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, ended up being the new guard of owners who got it a lot more entrepreneurial and started hustling. And there was this famous owner meeting where Jerry Jones says to Mike Brown, I'm so touched that you want to name your stadium after your late father. That's really awesome. But because you won't take a It's a gaming rights deal, I have to subsidize you on this revenue sharing thing.

I tend to be on the side of those more aggressive owners. You would think in such a highly competitive industry, everyone wants to win desperately. There's some guys who want to win desperately, but they don't know how, and they sabotage, like Dan Snyder, David Tepper. But then there's some people who are just acting like they want to win because every once in a while, they will.

Yeah, they catch, Oh, we got lucky with this quarterback or this random year happened. Then we'll just have everyone live off that for the next 10, 20 years. Right.

If you're a fan, you want your owner to... I did owner rankings at si. Com and yangoo. Com for years and years. What I really valued the most was aggressive pursuit of revenue and aggressive spending to try to get wins. Dan Snyder having players on his helicopter is well intentioned, but it screws the authority of the coach and messes it up. But if you have the best facilities, if you pay your assistant coach as well, if you are- Scouting Department, all those things where it's like there just seems to be a lot of organizations, and I'm probably speaking about the team I root for here, very much so, where it's frustrating knowing the further we've gotten into this job, the more we've seen it, it's frustrating to know that a lot of these organizations just don't give a fuck.

They honestly are fine every five years, ripping off 10 wins and being like, That was cool.

I don't believe that there is more undermarketed entity in American commerce than the Chicago Bears. I mean, the Chicago Bears. I don't know if people know, in this city, the Bulls had that amazing run.

Yeah, but it's a football town.

The Cubs are the Cubs, but it's a football down. Yeah, it is. When the bears, in '85, it engulfed everything.

They've been living off it since. It's that lightning in a bottle where it's like, Hey, We aren't going to do all the steps. We'll do a couple of the steps here and there. If we're good for a couple of years, oh, awesome. But then it never is sustainable. The sustainable greatness of some of these organizations because, yeah, okay, the Cowboys have not won a Super Bowl since the '90s. They've still been in the mix pretty much every year. It's hard to win championships, but being in the mix and actively trying to win playoff games matters.

I've been a Jerry Ryder die for so long, but I'm starting to wonder now. I know he's always He told me, This is all I care about. I just want to win. But his actions the last few years, he could have got Sean Payton.

Well, this is the weird part. We talk about this a lot on the show about Jerry Jones. Because of how he dealt with his coaches in the '90s, we think he's one way. He kept Jason Garrett for way too long. So he actually is, weirdly, one of those way too loyal, I don't want to change guys.

Yeah, or I don't want to pay guys not to coach.

But we think about the '90s and we think about Jimmy Johnson. We're like, Oh, he'll get rid of a guy in a second if he has a problem with him.

I I feel like there have been two inflection points that he could have had Sean Payton, and he knows Sean Payton, in his mind, would have been the guy. He didn't do it. Then is there anyone on Earth that, with respect to Mike McCarthy, who's done a lot of good things in this league, after the first quarter and a half of that playoff game against the packers, is there anyone reasonable on Earth who would have been like, Man, Jerry Jones fired Mike McCarthy and tried to get Mike Vrabel or Bill Belichick? No one would have said, Wow, Jerry Jones is too rapished.

Yeah, he didn't give him enough time. Yeah, right. That would have made perfect sense.

Why do you think that is? Why do you think that Jerry chose to remain loyal to McCarthy? Especially when you say the name Belichick, Belichick being out there seems It seems like it would have been the ultimate Jerry Jones move, right? Correct. Why do you think he remained loyal to him?

It's a great question. I need to have a longer conversation with Jerry, preferably with him buying the Red Wine, which he tends to do, and he has a little bit more flushed-out taste than I do. But it just makes me think that he has changed because the Jerry I've always known and defended on this, of course, but you're right in the Jason Garrett thing. He let that go a long time. Way too long. And Wade.

Yeah, and Wade. Yeah, right. He has become one of those owners that's like, I like what I like, and I'm not going to rock the boat.

Also, I don't to pay. I always have said to Jerry, You do better with powerful coaches. Everyone thinks Jerry wants to walk all over people. But even Switzer had some juice. Jimmy, Barry, and Parcells, which was a total clash. I have a great story on that one. But Jerry did better when strong people were in charge. There's a story where, you know how Parcells was, wanted to run everything. The cowboys are flying out to play the Patriots, and they're staying either in Providence or closer to Providence than Boston. Of course, the assumption is the plane is flying to Providence, and the busses will be there, and they'll go to the hotel. Late in the flight, it becomes clear to Parcells that they're going to Boston, which makes no logistical sense until he learns that the Joneses have dinner plans with the crafts, and they don't want to go from Providence. They're not taking a bus. So the plane is going to land in Boston. And Bill, who cared a lot about such things, went up and let Jerry have it. And Jerry smiled and said, I think the quote was, Well, Bill, when you buy your own team, you can have the plane go where you wanted to go.

I love it. There is a certain type of billionaire, and I think that there are owners in the NFL that are definitely doing things the right way, but those middling franchises and some of the bad ones, there are some owners that are super competitive, but that doesn't translate to what they actually... The steps that you have to take to winning football games, they take more pleasure in the petty stuff, like getting small victories over the other owners. If they find there's another owner that really likes this coffee shop, they're going to do everything they can to have that coffee shop next to their house closed down.

Billionaires are absolutely petty, as we've seen. You know what, guys? I'm thinking I might... I let go of owner rankings because they hired me for eight years. Yeah, I'd like to see it.

Should we bring it back?

Yeah, I would love to see it.

Yeah, because it is fascinating, and it also is a really good... From a fan perspective, it's a really good way to see where you land.

I got the greatest feedback because there were people in Buffalo who said, If you come to the city, I will fight you in defense of Ralph Wilson. I'm like, Really? That's why you're going to fight me? But the best were, you You ranked Bill Bidwell number 30 in your owner rankings. I defy you to name two owners that are better or that are worse than Bill Bidwell. There's no way he shouldn't be 32. But yeah, lots of arguments.

But these are good things. It's like the blind pole that has started about the facilities. It shines light on it where teams are being... That's an ownership ranking in its own right where it's like, Hey, here's where they're chipping out. That's good stuff. Fans They should know if their owner is not doing everything to win. Yes.

What I liked is that I got very personal and punitive. These people are not used to being criticized. It's one thing if I... Kyle Shana had to read stuff in this book and want to strangle me, perhaps. But Kyle Shana had is used to, as am I and you, we're all used to being criticized brutally. I think we tend to be able to filter that. But I don't think Mike Mike Brown was used to that.

Who, by the way, has done ownership rights to- He's been better. Naming rights. Well, he's done naming rights to his stadium because he had to pay Joe Burrow.

I will give this to Mike Brown. Everyone else would have fired Zack Taylor after year two. Because he's cheap or has a philosophy. He got lucky because he's cheap. Yeah, but in that case, they got to the Super Bowl and almost won it.

Sometimes not firing a coach is the best thing that you can do. Correct. Back to that Washington DC stuff. If you were to do your ownership power rankings right now, Do you know who the top five would be?

That's a great question. I should have prepped on that. I think that I am a big believer that the crafts are great owners, but they're in a weird position. I'm heartened by the way the Patriots are playing, actually. They're playing harder than I thought, and it looks cooler so far. But I'd really have to deconstruct and take a look because in most Most of them, the Crafts and the Joneses were right there. Jeffrey Loury. Jeffrey Loury would be very, very high. Green Bay. Yeah, Green Bay is weird because they're going to change CEOs coming up. So that's interesting.

Would the Hunts or they just got lucky because it got Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid. Because the blind pole is very interesting that the facilities there- Murders them. Gets killed. You're like, Dude, you're Patrick Mahomes. You should do whatever he wants to make his life great.

My favorite story with the Hunts I'm out with Derek Thomas, the late great Hall of Fame edge rusher who was one of the great social animals in NFL history in an era where it was different and we didn't have cell phone cameras. Also, they didn't have to stay in hotels the night before home games. Marty Schontheimer didn't make them. We even had some Saturday nights. I love it. Watch the Tupac Bruce Seldon fight at his house the night before a game, not Tupac. Excuse me, the Mike Tyson-Bruce-Selden fight the night Tupac was shot at his house with one of my buddies, one of his buddies, and Kid from Kid & Play of house party fame, who was on fire with the commentary. But Derek and I, early on, he was this big JFK conspiracy buff, and it stemmed because his father had been a fighter pilot who was shot down in Vietnam and killed. And so Derek's whole belief was that the war continued because JFK was assassinated to continue the Vietnam War leading to the death of my father. And so he was very, very down the rabbit hole on that. And he started talking about some of the theories publicly, and I finally went and researched it, and I'm like, Lamar Hunt, your owner, is like one of the people in this theory that would be one of the people who put out the hit.

Is that a little awkward? So we started having that conversation. That's awkward because I've seen owner-player stuff go really bad, like T. O. With the pushups and and all that, but that's a different level.

You might have indirectly killed my father.

Yeah, and the president.

Yeah, and a president.

That's wild. I also heard that you've, speaking of guys that you've spent a lot of time with where they benefited from not having camera phones around, you hung out with Dennis Rodman in Vegas.

Well, I did a book with him. There was this Sports Illustrated story. I got there in 1994, and in May of '95, when he was still with the Spurs, they were in a playoff series with the Lakers, I got sent down to LA, and a four-day, three-night, three-state bender ensued. It was amazing. I turned it into this cover story where he's got the bird on his shoulder and the metallic hot pass, this iconic SI cover that I wrote in real-time at his house in San Antonio as he engaged in activities with a stripper while there were these wild birds squawking. So there was a lot of noise, and I did manage to focus and write this story. But yeah, I spent a lot of time with Dennis here. But that first night in LA, when we went out, they eliminated the Lakers. I met him during the day at the shoot-around. Wasn't clear we were going to do anything. They eliminated the Lakers. He immediately walked off the court and told me, Let's go. We ended up at a club in West Hollywood with some celebrities. I'm 29, he's 34. I'm like, Well, I could drink with any 34-year-old.

I mean, I could drink. Yeah, we know. You've seen. I was pouring out shots under the table soon after it was Goldschluss Dager and Jägermeister. He drank me out of the table. But at one point, he took me outside and he started to talk about a lot of things, including Madonna, who was the most famous woman of the world, and he had been dating. He said, Very Openly, she wanted to have my baby. The quote, I think, was, She has ways of making you feel like King Tut. Robin was basically, as we went to San Antonio, then Vegas, then tried to go to Phoenix to watch Game 7 of the other series, Courtside. But that got derailed. We ended up back in San Antonio. As all this is happening, I was just going to go home straight from Vegas. I had so much good stuff, and I was going to fly to Oakland. We're having this emotional goodbye at the airport. He looks at me as I'm walking away, and he goes, Bro, what are you doing? I'm giving you the grade. Stay with me. And he was right. I just turned around and went to his gate and talked my way out of that plane and went back to Texas.

It was before, cell phones were really reliable, and I had told my wife, Hey, I'm coming home. When we got to Texas, I had to call her as Dennis and I were walking to his truck. Can you imagine the voice I was using? Yeah. It's like, So, honey, I'm in Texas. I get off the phone and he'd go, Oh, bro, who Who wears the pants in this family? Who wears the pants? Okay, well, story comes out. No, story doesn't come out. Story gets filed. I fly home. They open against the Rockets Monday in San Antonio, I believe, or maybe in Houston. No, it was in San Antonio, and I'm still exhausted. The story has been fact-checked. It's not coming out until Wednesday, but it closes Monday night. I'm just getting ready to the game. I get a call like an hour and 15 minutes before the game. He's like, Bro. I'm like, What are you doing? Are you at the arena? No, bro. I'm at home. He goes, You got to do something for me. I go, What? He goes, Bro, you got to take that Madonna shit out of there. I go, Who wears the pants, dude?

Oh, that's beautiful.

Then literally, he three-way called, and he was going to have me talk to Madonna and explain to her that he also said some nice things. She's going to kill me. I'm laughing, and it goes to answering machine, not voicemail, answering machine. It's like, Hey, it's M. I'm not here. Leave a message. And then here's me leaving a message for Madonna. Don't be too mad, Madonna.

That's incredible.

That's a great touching moment, though. You're about to give up on the party and go home, and Dennis Robin is like, Come on, man. Just party with me one more Let's get it.

Yeah, it was really touching because on the flight, he says to me, So what are you doing after this? After this story? I said, They actually have me doing this NASCAR thing. It was this weird black and white NASCAR cover story. He goes, Well, it isn't going to be like this. I go, No. He goes, It's never going to be like this. He was right. I knew.

Yeah, you've always been chasing that.

I was on the How could he with John Elway in his hotel after his last game? He won Super Bowl MVP. He's got a cigar in one hand and a beer in the other, and he's telling me everything. I write that story for Sports Illustrated all night. I've had moments where I'm like, This is surreal. But it was never like that.

What about fact-checking when it comes to going out and partying with Dennis Rodman? How do you remember all the quotes and stuff that you're getting over the course of the night? Because they do trust, and you are a fun guy to hang out with.

Yeah, it's such a great question because how we were classically trained Journalism, capital J, a lot of things, by the way, don't be the story, don't inject yourself. I'm like, I'm too arrogant for that. But SI, we had time. It was due 9:00 AM Monday morning, usually, or sometimes 9:00 AM Sunday morning. So you could deconstruct and go back and check it. But there are a lot of fine lines. Interestingly, doing the book with Rodman, I did back-to-back books with Rodman and Kurt Warren, very different books and experiences. But doing the book with Rodman was wild because his thing was, You have to come here and rage and get in my orbit. And after an undetermined amount of time, we'd be on twin treadmills at the Burdo Center. It'd be like, Take out that paper, Gorda. Then it would be amazing. But my wife would be like, How long are you going to be gone? I'd be like, I just don't know. Yeah, right.

I might get kidnapped. It's a fair question for her to ask you, too, if you're writing a story and you're typing as Dennis Rodman's Having Sex, Well, There's a Bird.

Yeah. But he was amazing. The book came out, and we had gone out in Chicago to a place called Manhole. Okay. Manhole suggests that it would be a bar frequented by dudes who are into dudes, which is what it was. But one of the people, and in fact, big screen TV of hardcore porn with dude on dudes at the bar. But there was a friend of his called Mimi that went out with us who was a voluptuous Marilyn Monroe lookalike with a sultry voice who had been named Michael and was in some form of transition, undetermined, but was Mimi. In the book, as Dennis, I talked about Mimi, and I said, I had been with Mimi a few times, innocently, meaning I'd been out with Mimi. But he goes on Howard Stern, and Stern's going… He's like, You've been with Mimi? Dennis just went with it. He just goes, A lot of people been with transsexual, bro. They just don't realize it.

Incredible. Well, Mike, this has been awesome. The book, The Why is Everything: A Story of Football, Rivalry, and Revolution. Buy it on Amazon. I have one last question, rowback question, robackquestion, robackk. Com. Promo code take. 20% off your first purchase, Q-zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. I have to ask Grateful Dead question, how many shows have you been to? I know we've talked about it privately. How many shows have you been to total?

Well, we're only counting Jerry Grateful Dead. Yes. Because I went to Jerry Band and Kingfish, and obviously, anything since '95 doesn't count. We did it, my buddy and I. I think it's 60. I went to Cal from '83 to '88, so they just played so much, Kaiser. It was mail order tickets or buy one outside. It was 15 bucks. It's so weird because we look back now and we're like, We should have gone more. But we also knew. I think I wonder the same. We knew in that moment we're seeing not just history, but that Jerry, it was just a different thing that was going on. How many did you get to?

Well, I'm too young to have gone to a true Grateful Dead because I'm 39. I've been to every iteration, basically, since Phil Lesh and Friends in the early in 2000s. Nice. You got to see peak Brent.

I love Brent. I saw peak Brent. I love Brent. I know you and I are aligned on that. That is my wheelhouse. Jerry almost died in '86 and went into a diabetic coma. They took months off. He had to relearn how to play the guitar. Dennis McNally, their longtime publicist who was very close, has told me that he always felt Jerry, after that, was a great pitcher who'd lost his fastball. Still amazing and hit moments, but the speed, it just wasn't... If I had a wheelhouse, I would say, Brent, once he started rounding into form, let's say, 82 to Diabetic Coma, which is summer of '86. But it's all. It's all one song.

Do you have a relationship with Aaron Rodgers?

Yeah, I just actually did two columns on him. One of them, I went out to Jersey and hung with him during training camp. He's a Cal guy. I met him coming out of Cal. He almost gave me my life quest, which is to see my team go to the Rose Bowl, which I think we all agree is even harder. But he's been really good to me over the years. I think we probably diverge now on some certain things. I saw you guys at Tahoe. I saw him going in there. It was a great interview. My favorite part was when you were talking about the doctor's assessment of the Achilles, and you said something to the effect of… So you were just trying to get them to make it seem like you could come back.

Yeah, he was. He did it for the whole season. He took the Jets hostage a little bit.

But you guys did pretty well, right? Yeah.

He's an interesting cat. I didn't like him forever because he obviously tortured me. But now that he's on the Jets, I'm watching him play now is It's fun being like, Oh, he's doing the same tricks where he gets everyone off sides and throws a touch down there. Lazard. It's like, I can't be mad about this anymore.

I see Christian McCafree in that nighter locker room constantly. As a Cal guy, I love them. But I've always regret it because I was doing this story on Ed McCafree for SI, and they only had two kids at the time. Ed is a great dude, but not a great quote. But his wife Lisa is Hilarious. She's the one whose dad was an Olympic spreader. She said, In the story, Ed and I are breeding fast white guys, which turned out to be true. It's in the SI story. You can look it up. We're in their kitchen, and the two boys are running around, Max and Christian. I can remember the scene vividly. I've always kicked myself that I didn't sweep the leg because, yes, I probably would have done some jail time, gotten my ass kicked, and it would have been frowned upon, probably would have got fired. But God, it would have saved me so much misery. We didn't tackle that guy for three years.

It was terrible. He was so good as Stanford. All right, well, Mike, thank you so much. It's been awesome, man. We really appreciate you coming by, and everyone go buy the book. It's football history. You're reading football history as it happens, too. That's the cool part about the book is it's not only history, but it's still going on.

I totally appreciate it. I feel like this adds to our origin story because we always have the Blues bar and Jeff Garlington desperately trying to keep us from feuding.

Yeah, well, you kept on saying Hugh Jackson got screwed. It's like he won one game in two years.

You can say a lot of things about Hugh Jackson, and you can say a lot of things about me, but at least please say that I'm a good friend. You are a good friend.

Yeah, you are. You're actually too good of a friend. It's argumentable that I am too good of a friend.

We get that same criticism. We have guys that are our guys, and we will defend them to the ends of the earth. People get mad.

My favorite part of the whole thing was Jeff was very We're very close. Jeff was giving me that look like, you are not allowed to not... You and I were already cool, but he was just giving me like, You're not allowed to not be cool with this guy.

I kept on just pressing you about you.

But he was also coming at you. But my favorite part was, You got so mad, and then you said, I could get Jared Goff not to speak to you.

Yeah, that's right. I was going to cut you off.

Jeff's like, I don't think that's true.

He told me after. He's like, No, you couldn't. I was like, Yeah, I took a bluff.

But I I did love the energy. I remember, I stepped back. I was like, Wow, this guy doesn't play.

But if we bring Oner in Rankings back, I will literally credit this moment because I've toyed with him in my head.

I would love it. But I will probably unveil it to you guys first. I like that.

People deserve to know. All right.

Well, thanks so much, Mike. Appreciate it so much.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, Mike. Mike Silver was brought to you by Chevy.

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All right, let's wrap up. Guys on Chicks. Henry, hit us.

I've been talking to this guy for some time, and I recently learned all his friends call him The Roach. I really don't like the name, especially when one of his friends yell, How's your roach? Which I don't really understand at all. While I really don't like it, it's a strange reason to stop talking to him since I do like him. So should I ask him to drop the Roach tag or just try to embrace it, thanks?

That's a scummy nickname, yeah.

It's not good. It's either a bug or it's the end of a joint.

Yeah, he might be a pothead.

That would be better.

Yeah, he should lie to you and tell you it's because he used to smoke a lot of weed.

I don't do that shit anymore. It's a badass thing, maybe, to go Roach.

Yeah, Roach. But Roach is a guy that you call in once every other month to hang out when you really want to go slumming. Roach is not a guy that you would trust to be your best man at your wedding.

It'd be an usher.

Yeah.

She'd be like, Here, hand out these. And he'd probably forget.

Yeah.

My girlfriend She recently asked me about the typical placement of men at a urinal when she saw an Instagram video. She did not understand the concept. I explained it to her like each urinal is its own parking spot, and you as a person are the vehicle trying to park. I had her tell me where she would park herself if it was a parking lot and mimic the video. It still did not make sense to her. Did I explain it wrong or is she dumb?

You usually want to give...

If you have an extra space, you take the extra space.

No, parking spot It makes sense. You would never park next to someone if there's two open spaces. Yeah. I do. I mean, every now and then, it's funny if you have a full empty and you go stay next to someone.

Yeah, you go right next to the guy. One time, I was at the Serious XM Studio, and Ed Sheeran was taking the lead at the urinal. Wait, the Ed Sheeran? Yeah, Ed Sheeran. But it was like he was starting to blow up. It was 2015. Holy fuck. You know who it was, though? I did not know who it was until later. But we ended up peeing at the same Right next to each other at the urinal.

Shut the fuck up.

I lied. We both did not end up peeing. I was peeing, and I was peeing full stream. Then poor Ed couldn't squeeze out any pee, so he really was trying to pee, and he started spitting into the urinal. I dominated him at the urinal, and then he had to do the fake flush. He flushed the urinal like he peed, but he didn't pee. Then he washed his hands like he peed. He did not pee, and then just left sad. I knew he still had to pee, but he couldn't do it because he was intimidated.

How have you Who told us this?

I don't know. That's insane. It's a wild story.

Yeah, parking space, though. That works.

It's actually a great analogy. Yeah.

Hi. My boyfriend told me to text this number. I saw his fantasy football team name is Hawk Tua spit on my Chub. I think it's weird to have a sexual name, but he insists it's a normal thing, and it's just funny because there's a guy named Tua and a guy named Chub on his team. Should I be concerned?

You should be concerned because it's unoriginal.

Yeah, I think we predicted right when the Hawk Tua video came out, that was going to be the top fantasy name.

But you name your team. Everyone's named Hawk Tua.

You name your team before you.

But he added a little extra with the Chubb. On this Chubb.

Does he have Chubb, too? What is he doing with his IR spot?

He's got a shitty team. That's the big red flag. He's very bad at fantasy football.

My fantasy team name has just been Jim Bob Cooter for the past 10 years.

Respect.

Just no pun, just his name.

I've decided that I'm just going to start naming my fantasy teams because everyone's like, Oh, you got to change your name every year. I'm going to start naming my fantasy teams like I'm six years old. So my fantasy team name is the Scorpions.

That's pretty cool. Yeah, isn't it? Or you could name your team just a real name. That's Bob. Yeah.

I also you can do- I just said I did that.

Jim Bob Cooter.

Yeah, but just give it one first name.

Yeah, but you're trying to do sexual. You're doing sexual.

Yeah, but it's Jim Bob Cooter.

But the Cooter is why you named it Jim Bob.

It's a funny name, Jim Bob. Jim Bob is also a funny first name.

Some colleagues, you can just do an emoji. So one year, I was just a wolf.

That's pretty sick. Badass. Mine's Danuchi Maine.

Nice. Yeah, I would highly recommend, though, just go back to being like a seven-year... Like next year, you know what I'm thinking right now? I might change one of my team's names to the firetrucks.

I just realized we basically just do fantasy football names every Sunday for Boomers.

That's true.

Yes, that's exactly what we do. That's exactly what we do.

There's probably a lot of people with fancy names from Boomers.

Yeah. Remind us to do the Hawk to a Joke this week on Boomers. Yeah. It's about time.

She's topping us in the charts.

Actually, talk to us is a monster.

But neither of those two players are going to play this week.

It would have been awesome. Yeah, but we should do it. It would have been perfect last week because it was Hawks, Dolphin. It would have been Hawk to a... Shit. Damn.

Damn.

We'll never get that moment back.

Okay. Hank, last one.

This one said, Hey, Moudang cat, PFT, commanders in autumn of Hank. My boyfriend and his friends a weekly schedule FaceTime every Friday night. He says it's their time to catch up and cook up something in the lab for sports for the weekend. They just end up taking shots of beer every time the song changes for hours. This means we can never go out on Fridays as a couple, and I have to leave the house if I don't want to hear them screaming about fancy football or the Mount Rushmore Dipping Sauces. Is this normal guy bonding? I feel like this is just an excuse to get drunk. Should I be concerned? And will I ever get my boyfriend back for Friday nights? This guy was in a frat.

Was this email from 2020? Thank Yeah. Moudang. Moudang supremacy shirts.

Where is Moudang?

Moudang Supremacy. China? China?

It feels like an app.

Maybe Taiwan.

It feels like a sci-up.

I love Moudang. Have you guys seen Pesto?

That's how they get you. Have you seen Pesto?

No. Who is Moudang for maybe the-Moudang is a Pygmy hippo that is the cuteest fucking hippo ever.

I think Pygmy hippo. I don't know. Little Baby Hippo.

I think it's Pygmy.

Laura sent me that shirt last week, and then she told me that the Philly's NLE's Championship shirt was also in that box. Unfortunately, I couldn't touch it until today.

Okay, that makes sense. I was so mad. So go buy Moudang. The cuteest. Pesto is a Penguin that is a baby Penguin That is two times the size of his parents.

It's a giant. It's a unit.

Yeah, but baby penguins are furry. So he looks different. It's cool. Pesto is awesome.

Yeah, Pesto is pretty.Pesto rocks. Listen, I like Mudang. I enjoy the pictures.Sounds like you don't. Moudang, but it seems like everybody loves Moudang, and it's a little convenient that it might be Chinese propaganda.

That's fine. I don't care.

Okay.

This guy, this is a COVID email. She just emailed from COVID. That was 2020.

Yeah. Getting a group of guys organized for a FaceTime that often was wild.

I remember doing it a few times with my friends when COVID was happening, and it was nice. But as soon as we were able to go outside, which was three weeks later, we were like, All right, that's over.

Yeah, it's really strange to schedule this on a Friday, too. Yeah. And just get drunk staring at your screen.

Yeah, very weird.

Had to be a frat.

Yeah, had to be a frat. Okay, good show, boys. Good show. Friday, we're going to do NFL Week 4. Excited. Yeah. Let's finish with numbers.

Five, nine, three, five.

Eighteen. Eleven. Number five.

Pft and memes, you ever gotten this?

No, I haven't, but I'm about to get it. I'll never get it. I got to put five. Jane Daniels.

Six. Oh.

Was that nine?

Oh, nine. Let's go. Shit. You said nine?

Hank, yeah.

Oh, shit.

Fuck you, Hank. Oh, damn. That turned.

God damn it.

You fucking suck. In your face, be it?

Drick me, sucks.

Damn. Good job, Hank.

Nine daughter, baby.

Nine.

Hell, yeah.

Happy for you. Very happy for you, Hank. Thanks.

It feels good to win.

What was it?

What did you do, Max? What? Winner. I win. And then you lost.

That's actually the mark of a true winner, the way that Hank reacted. He was just like, Cool.

Yeah, cool. Oh, nice. Nine.

Yeah, you got to talk some shit. Love you guys.