Transcript of Dave Portnoy, Country Singer Zach Top, World Cup Bracket, Phil Mickelson In One + Mt Rushmore Of American Attractions Foreigners Should See

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Stella Blue Coffee is more than just great coffee, it's coffee with a purpose. Introducing We Brew to Rescue, a nationwide campaign using proceeds from our new ready-to-drink cans to help fund 1,000 pet adoptions this year. Every can you crack open helps a real pet find a real home. Simple as that. Made with 100% Colombian coffee, each 11-ounce can delivers smooth, drinkable energy with a boost of protein. Available in espresso, café mocha, and espresso sweet cream. Built for mornings, long days, and everything in between. Drink Stella Blue, fuel your day, and help save a pet's life. You can follow our progress in real time throughout the campaign by watching the adoption tracker on our site. Grab yours now at StellaBlueCoffee.com, Amazon, and select retailers nationwide. On today's Pardon My Take presented by DraftKings, we've got our boss Dave Portnoy on the show, second time being on Pardon My Take. He's got a new book out that you should go buy right now, Cancel Me If You Can. You can buy it on Amazon, you can buy it in bookstores, out this week.

Awesome interview with him, just talking about the history of Barstool, BVT, sliding doors moments, some mean stuff towards Hank from Dave. I'll just say it right now, some really mean stuff, but also very funny. We also have Zach Topp, country music star Zach Topp in studio. Great time with him. We're going to do the Mount Rushmore of attractions, American attractions Europeans should visit. When they come to view our beautiful land. That was obviously because of the World Cup and Freddy La7. We're going to do who's back of the week. We're going to talk some World Cup. We got some NBA free agency imminent, and we're going to get to all of that. But first, we have new sponsor alert, our great friends at TickPick, who got Memes, Che, and Zach to the clinching game in San Antonio to watch the Knicks win their first title. In 53 years. That's the kind of stuff TickPick does. It's not just the best site because they have the, the fee-free pricing, uh, and they have great seats. You can see the views when you, when you go on the app. They have the price freeze, you can lock in a price when you decide.

They have credit boost, which you receive TickPick credit when you buy. They are the best app by far, but they also provide you moments that are lifelong moments, like memes Zach and Che going to that Knicks championship. TickPick is also the official fan experience partner of 4 NFL franchises, so they have exclusive VIP on-the-field experiences available on TickPick. We actually were talking to TickPick because we brought them on as a new sponsor. We're really pumped about it. These guys are awesome. They're like stoolies, they're regular dudes. And one of the things we talked about is how can we get Max to be one of the flag holders for an Eagles game? So we're going to try to do that. Hopefully Max doesn't fall under the flag, but TickPick, they are the best in the business. We love them and we're going to be riding for them. You see also Jerry O'Connell, he— I think he went to another thing.

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that was, by the way, TickPick is so great, they just, they just co-opted Jerry O'Connell. They're like, Jerry O'Connell, you're also going to go to stuff. So TickPick is the best, best in the business. Fans know the best memories start with the best prices. So like I said, you get the seat view, you can see exactly where you're sitting, you get the price freeze. So so you can lock in the price while you decide. You get the credit boost, so you receive TickPick credit when you buy. It's all there, so check out tickpick.com or download the app today. TickPick.com or download the app today. Okay, let's go. Welcome to Part of My Take, presented by DraftKings. The crown is yours. Today is Monday, June 29th, and boys, it's knockout stage time. We are, uh, on vacation this week, but we will have new shows every Monday, Wednesday— or Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Friday will be Dungeons and Dragons. Wednesday will be Dingers Only, and today our boss Dave Portnoy joins us, which was an awesome, awesome interview that everyone should listen to. But before we get to that, we got to talk some World Cup. Are we excited?

Knockout stage time, PFT.

We got a bracket. That's all I care about. And, uh, and getting a look at the bracket kicks ass. Yeah, I'm excited. I, I still go back to what I thought, like, the, the second that we got scored on, um, by Turkey in the last minute. Don't really care at all that we lost that game. That game, I keep thinking about it, that game means less than nothing to us. And I actually liked what, what Poach said after the game. He was just like, yeah, why are we acting like this is the end of the world? That loss means absolutely nothing. No one's going to remember what you did in that third game. We already advanced first in our group.

I'm pumped.

I'm pumped.

I don't think that Belgium's that good. I'll say it. Maybe I'm looking past Bosnia and or Herzegovina, but I love it. And Senegal, you know what, Senegal is not bad either. So like, you're gonna have to beat good teams. So I guess we're gonna find out if we're a good team.

Did you, did you buy your, your plane ticket to San Francisco for Wednesday?

I do have my plane ticket to San Francisco. I'm going in and out, uh, Wednesday, flying out there Wednesday morning, flying out Wednesday night.

Love it, love it. That's dedication. Um, yeah, it's— so we had the, the third, the third round, or the third round of the group stage, which we've talked about at length, that they changed the way that the tiebreakers work, so a lot of them didn't mean anything. But we did have the rare, uh, the, the tie-off between Algeria and Austria on Saturday night, which was incredible theater because it was basically going into the game, if both teams tied, or I mean if they tied each other, then they both advanced. If, uh, one of them won the game, then Iran would have gotten in. Uh, so there was no reason for either of them. And it also added that If Algeria tied, they got the third seed, which would've been a better path than the second, which is against Spain. And we had two goals in stoppage time because they didn't— they broke the tiebreak. They, they broke the, the tie pack that they were having. It was incredible. That was very cool. And we also had Messi score another goal. I think that's seven World Cup games in a row. So he just keeps doing it.

Ronaldo did absolutely nothing. It's been fun. It's been fun.

That, that the end of that game with Portugal and Colombia was bullshit too. We've got a lot of offsides discourse making its way back. I think that soccer is one sport that we can say the VAR, it makes a lot of stuff worse.

Yeah.

The offsides on the VAR is so much worse. Like you've got a guy's cleat like poking out and they're, they're calling that offsides. Is it, is it dumb for me to say like this, the, this is the simplest thing in the world to fix. It's just your shoulders. That's what we think of for offsides, right?

Yeah.

It's where your shoulders are. That's where the human body is. If your shoulders are past the other dude's shoulders, then that's offsides. And if not, then you're onside. It seems very, very simple to fix. But that was bullshit. Colombia got absolutely hosed. I think the fix is in.

It was the toe.

Yeah, it was the toe.

It was the toe. It was the second best VAR offsides. We, like a few years ago, we had Lukaku, had his dick was offside. It's literally just his penis and they showed the shield. The shield technology is cool. That makes it feels like it was made for dummies like us. We're like, oh yeah, look at that shield right there. Oh yeah, look, his toe's past it. But yeah, Ronaldo's, I mean, he's an absolute bum. I think we can all agree, right, Zach?

I would say I disagree with the offside call with the pinky toe, but we're throwing around bum. It's just kind of, you know, that's not true.

Mm-hmm.

He—

so the Portugal coach—

you have to like dumb it down and say pinky toe. It was just like, just like toe. I mean, listen, I think we can all agree that Ronaldo is washed up and that he should not have been— he should not be advancing to the knockout stage. Um, but to, to diminish the nature of the toe offside, I think was a little childish, Zach.

I will say, yeah, he— I don't know about if anyone's less deserving than anyone else to advance. But the free kick going straight to the keeper didn't look the best. You don't want to see that.

Like, that's like, yeah, yeah.

He—

so Portugal in the group stage had, they used 22 different players. They rotated everyone on the team. Everyone took a break except Ronaldo, the 41-year-old who demands that he plays every single minute. And he's back. He's back. He's— Zach, are you—

if they—

if Ronaldo loses in and plays the way he's been playing in the first round of the knockout stage, will the 'I'm back, I'm back' against Uzbekistan be one of the funniest clips in history?

I will say in that game, he was so double back though. You know, in a vacuum, that game he was back.

I will say it's going to be a tough look.

Today I clicked on one Ronaldo slander post and I just got force fed them. And I was just peppering Zach with them. The, the I Show Speed jumps over Ronaldo clip where it's just, it's perfectly set up where I Show Speed's like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm doing it. Then he jumps over a trash can.

Oh.

Just chef's kiss.

Perfect.

Insane vertical from Speed.

Yeah.

The, the funniest story I thought of the weekend with the World Cup was what happened with Uruguay. So Uruguay, they got eliminated. They were in a very, very easy group. Uruguay, traditionally, you know, pretty good country, pretty good soccer country. They get eliminated. And then at the end of the game, they just go fucking nuts. They just start fouling everybody. They start tackling from behind. They've got this dude with a man bun that's like attacking the referee who's giving them red cards and kicking them out. The referee actually like squared up with the dude from Uruguay for a second, was like, let's fucking go. I thought that they were going to fight. So after all this happens with Uruguay, they cancel their private charter flight home and they say, you guys figure out how to get back to Uruguay on your own. You're a disgrace to the country. You don't deserve to have a private flight home. Good luck. Godspeed. We'll see you in 4 years. I love that. I love the— you know what that should be like? That's the real test of whether or not a country deserves to advance to the knockout stage.

If they care that much about soccer that they actually take away their flight home. Yeah. FIFA should step in and be like, all right, you know what? We reserved one extra spot. We didn't tell anybody. There's one extra spot. You guys earned the— I truly love soccer spot in the knockout bracket.

Mm-hmm.

I—

so my, my funniest story from this weekend was— and we're going to get to it. With Dave, you know, the rise of Barstool and the history of Barstool. I call this the Barstoolification of, uh, of regular media. Did you guys see this woman, um, this reporter in LA, ABC 7 in Los Angeles, Abigail Velez? She at the watch party, uh, when we lost to Turkey, she went on a rant and she said the next round Team USA will play Bosnia next Wednesday. And one thing about Bosnia, I could not point out where it is on a map. I don't know the first thing about Bosnia and I don't want to know because Team USA, we're back, we're better. Better than ever. She then had to issue an apology and get like, she was chastised and run through the gutter by the media. And I'm like, we have said far, far worse on this show every single episode. I stand with you, Abigail. I don't know where the fuck Bosnia is on a map.

She kind of forgot where she was. Like, like, like in a second, I, I know where it is only because it's the country that gets ocean cucked by Croatia. So Croatia, yeah, I know it's the sea that goes around Bosnia. That's like Bosnia is the pearl inside the hand.

Yeah, general area. Listen, if not knowing where a country is on a map, just watch Drop a Pin Donnie and Uncle Chaps going around the office, they would have the entire Barstool office in jail. I don't think anyone gets any of these right. But yeah, it was just— yeah, I felt so bad for her because I was like, she got what? She got swept up in the moment. She was just talking a little shit.

Yeah, she forgot like where she was and, and what airwaves she was— this wasn't like, like an Instagram Live thing that she was doing, uh, and she probably does have some Bosnian people that watch. She's LA, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, so there's probably some Bosnian people in LA that got upset about it. It's like, well, whatever, Bosnia, like, do so. That's why we play the game.

Yeah, yeah, win, and then, and then, and then you can have respect.

But until that happens, one thing about Bosnia, only thing I know about them, uh, is that they rotate who their president is every 8 months.

Oh, that's kind of cool.

Yeah, which I actually don't hate that idea. It's just like, they all suck, so let's just keep them, keep them going in and out.

What's going on with Herzegovina? It feels like every time someone says it, they half the time they, they just forget to add the Herzegovina. It's like not fair. Great question.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think I was actually going to— I was going to kick that one to Hank, but it's bullshit.

No, that's the reason you were making fun of me is because I was like Bosnia or whatever. And you're like, oh, Herzegovina. How do you not know Herzegovina? But then any time anyone talks about it, they just say Bosnia.

Yeah, they— Herzegovina is just getting slept on. I—

you know what?

Yeah, I'm personally playing Herzegovina on Wednesday.

Yeah.

Fuck Bosnia. Not the Abigail Velez way. But like, fuck them, I'm just going against Herzegovina. I'll just choose Slovenia. You guys choose Bosnia. Yeah, choose one.

Again, I, I'm, I'm doing this out of respect for the Italians. They knocked the Italians out. It's not right that Italy's not in the World Cup for like the 5th consecutive time.

Wait, who knocked the Italians out?

Bosnia did.

Bosnia.

That's what I'm saying.

I was alive.

Yeah, but yeah, that's what I'm saying. So Max, we, we got you, dude.

We got you. 5 consecutive times, that's bullshit.

You just keep saying Bosnia. What about Herzegovina?

It's her—

it's her—

it's B&H.

What about it?

I like when they abbreviate it. It looks like it just says bit—

that big good.

You're not respect— you're not respecting Herzegovina.

I do respect Herzegovina. I'm just saying I respect Italy and I want to have their back, Max. So out of respect for you, this is, this is what the United States is going to do.

Italy won a World Cup in our lifetime.

Yeah, that's a long time ago. So it was 20 years ago.

Hang a banner. And penalty— probably did.

Yeah, because, because you guys won a World Cup because your, your star—

I'm American, but I also, I also support—

was so vulgar that he made Zinedine Zidane lose his mind and headbutt you.

I couldn't name—

I'm looking up Herzegovina right now on that team.

What's that, Max?

I was gonna say, I don't think I can name one player on that Italy team, but I'm pretty sure Buffon was the goalkeeper.

Yeah, I think he was. I think it was Materazzi. He said, he said, Zidane, your sister's an Algerian whore. And then Zidane threw a headbutt into his chest and got a red card.

I remember watching him walk off by the trophy to that, uh, to, to you know, to the locker room. All right, Herzegovina. The biggest, the biggest city in Herzegovina is Mostar. That's kind of cool. Mostar. What's going on in Mostar?

Mostar, it's like WorldStar for Yugoslavia.

Yeah, it looks kind of cool. All right, Mostar's coat of arms is cool too.

All right, I got no problem with Bosnia or Herzegovina.

I'm going— well, you do have a problem with Herzegovina because you haven't mentioned them once, so I'm gonna— I'm respecting Herzegovina. That's what I'm doing.

I say fuck them both.

Hank, how are you? How are you? How are you feeling about— oh, by the way, shout out Canada. They were the first team to win in the knockout stage against South Africa.

Are—

I had a thought.

This—

if we're just gonna go down this road of maybe, uh, offending different countries, whatever Is every, every Canadian soccer player just wishes they were a hockey player, right?

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. That's not, that's not offensive. Like, I was just like, I was pumped for me. Like, that's cool. I kind of want to see, you know, Canada's our friend. Oldie, shout out Oldie, shout out Biz. But yeah, the whole time, like, are they, are they just kicking the ball around being like, fuck, I wish I, I wish I was just a little bit better skating backwards?

I think no. Before every game, they're like, I hope they take the hose out there and just wet it down, make it, make it a little soupy for us. They definitely— you a million percent do hope that you, uh, become a hockey player. Even if you're really, really good at soccer, you like that, you treat that with shame, you hide that from people. Like, you— your dad walks in the backyard and he sees you like juggling a soccer ball, he's like, what the fuck is this? What are you doing, Hank?

America though, that, that's not the case in America. Our, our soccer players are—

no, it definitely is in America too. No, America is just the same but for football. Yeah, or basketball or baseball, probably more. It's just more because there's one sport in, in, uh, in, in Canada. Also, Canada shouldn't have been wearing—

they should do—

we, we talked about this. We went on, uh, Men in Blazers postgame on Thursday night, PFDN, and we had some gripes about the World Cup, which a bunch of them we said, but the, the NBA City Connect of the World Connect— of the World Cup is bullshit. Like, Germany was wearing, uh, like Miami Dolphins jerseys, and then Canada wearing all black. Like, give me some red. What are we doing? You got to wear your— you got to wear the, the, the regular— like, this is the color of our country. That's what has to be worn in the World Cup.

Yeah.

And I, I do think that we're going to just completely forget those blue uniforms that we wore on Friday. We're never— we should never wear those. Just wear the, uh, wear the red and white American flag stripes.

That's true.

America's uniform. Canada should have like primary red, maybe like a maple leaf on it. You know, their coach is an American for Canada. He's a guy from the United States, Jesse Marsh. We wanted him. We didn't get him. We got Poach. And now it sounds like we're going to offer Poach a 4-year extension.

Let's go.

You don't want to let—

we got—

we were— you got to make him say no.

And we're not—

don't let him out of the country.

Did you see that? Where he makes the boys run, we ran the most uh, miles in the first— in the group stage out of any country.

I love that.

Yeah, we're just working.

That's that defense. That's the defense.

I think that's bad, right?

Well, no, it's probably good.

He's a dog.

But is it bad?

We need them to be rushed.

It's not.

Yeah, it's not bad. It's not bad. No, no, this is— this is good shit. That's what we do. I told you it was Tibbs, right? He's soccer Tibbs. And you just got one tournament to play.

Regular season, Tibbs left and they wanted—

and they won a and shit.

Max, you're not listening to me. Tib's problem was he coaches the entire regular season like it's the playoffs. That's fine if the entire regular season is the playoffs, which is what the World Cup is.

He just did the group stage— he did the group stage like the group stage was regular season, especially the third game that meant nothing, and he was coaching it like the playoffs.

Well, yeah, he was coaching the third game with like 9 backups in like it was a playoff. Yeah, but that's like— yeah, yeah, because he wanted to win. I think he wanted to get, uh, Pulisic like a little run out there. So he's coaching like playoffs, which I like. I think that's good for like a World Cup. What, what are we talking about? It's like 8 games, 8 games, coaching balls to the wall. I think it's— if you have the athletes to do it, it's good. I tried to describe what he was doing, uh, like turbo Big Ten football, like on the kickoffs. If you watch everything that we've done in the history of the U.S. soccer program. All you have to do is look at the kickoffs and how we've changed in the last 2 years to show what Poach is doing. So on our kickoffs, we would always like pass the ball, pass it back, retain possession, because their mentality was always, we can't lose the game if they don't have the ball, they can't score if they don't have the ball. So we're just going to kick it around back here, and then maybe if we see something juicy downfield, we'll boot it the fuck down there and we'll try to run onto and get a good chance.

That's what we've done. For 40 years in this country. Now with Poach, every kickoff we have, first thing we do, we coffin corner. We send it dead to the corner. We try to pin them in the last like 5 yards so they have a throw-in because we figured out that it's better, it's more advantageous for them to have the ball in their defending third while we put pressure on them than it is for us to have the ball in our defending third. Like that, that makes you closer to a goal because if you can turn it over, and they're third, then you're like 2 passes away from scoring a goal. What do we do on the first kickoff against Turkey? The fucking ball hit the corner flag and settled in. It was like the perfect Torrey Taylor coffin corner punt that we started. So yes, we're going to run more because we're playing swarming defense the entire time. That's the entire premise of our team is they get the ball in the first 4 seconds, get a fucking turnover because that's when you can score.

Right, but we did say— we started the show saying that Poach said that he didn't care about winning that game and that game doesn't matter, but then he coached like it matters.

Well, yeah, because that's a system that you play. Like, yeah, okay, it doesn't matter if we have our backups doing that and they're not as good and we lose. That's true, that doesn't matter.

Like, no, but you didn't want Pulisic to play.

I did not, but I'm also a loser because I've got in the back of my head ghosts of Robert Griffin III going out there when he shouldn't be out there and his knee tearing into like pulled pork. So yeah, I did not want him to play, but he did. And like, I got— I am 0% concerned with what happened with Turkey. That has no effect on how optimistic I am moving forward. What does have a small effect is like maybe having to play against Belgium and then Spain. But like I said, if you're going— if you're going to be a good team, you have to beat good teams at some point.

That was the— remember we talked about it a few weeks or it was one week ago. When everyone was like, look at our path. And it's like, no one, no group has finished. I think every single favorite won their group. So it was like, we're always going to have to play really good teams. I'm ready for the challenge. I feel bad for those countries. I feel bad for Bosnia and Herzegovina. I feel bad for Belgium and Senegal. I feel bad for Spain and whoever the fuck they have to play. They're all going to get a whoop-ass.

Portugal, probably.

Portugal.

I would love, I would love to play Ronaldo. Zach, who are you going to root for if it comes down to USA versus Spain in the quarterfinals?

Portugal.

Oh yeah, sorry, USA versus Portugal in the quarterfinals.

Oh, the United States.

Okay.

Yeah, it's for country, man. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Okay, that's it.

Hank, what do you think about any— do you have any, any thoughts on the World Cup?

No.

Cape Verde. I'm all in on Cape Verde. Underdog story.

Yeah.

Maybe not all in.

What happened?

Maybe over here. No, no, no, no, no.

What happened?

The, the—

there might have been an incident.

Best player, just look up on Twitter. The best player might have been alleged to rape a translator.

Oh no. So maybe not all the way.

Listen, one of my, one of my best friends growing up Cape Verdean, like grew up around him and his family. Like they're all, you know, very proud Cape Verdeans. So I was like happy for him and his family. Like, yeah, it's a crazy story. Super small island. Like, again, like I, I'm just saying this because I grew up. But yeah, that, that—

yeah, listen, material change. It's just that you picked one team. Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Do we want to, do we want to pick a winner right now that we have, we have a bracket. Tonight, you can bet on all of it on DraftKings. DraftKings, win or go home.

That's it.

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Ends July 19th. Terms at dkng.co/audio. Okay, let's look at it real quick. Uh, The favorites to win the whole thing right now are France at +350, Argentina +400. Do you guys have a bet, maybe a long shot one that you like? We did the— what's the thing we're doing? King of the Cup. And, uh, me, Zach, and I have Spain. So we have Spain as our pick. Who do you guys—

Croatia. We have Croatia.

Okay.

Love Croatia.

US 30 to 1. Why not? Why not us? Well, the 9th best odds.

Hmm.

England. Oh, England maybe having to play Mexico in Mexico would be electric.

Yeah. So that's the other thing about Canada is because they finished, I think, second of the group, they don't have any more games in Canada, so they have to play the rest of the time in the United States. But yeah, England against Mexico at that altitude. England has looked pretty bad. Really bad outside of like a couple, couple lucky efforts that they've had. I like, I mean, France is chalk, but I like France a lot. I also think that Brazil is going to have a cakewalk to the Final Four.

Yeah.

All right. Well, go bet it right now on DraftKings.

All right.

Other stories. Phil Mickelson. What can we say about Phil? Phil Tracker is staying steadfast in his defense of Phil Mickelson. So there was an article that came out, uh, on Friday. Alan Shipnick wrote an extensive article about Phil Mickelson basically getting kicked out of two other clubs and, uh, making advances on people. The, the craziest story, uh, from the whole thing was that Phil was paying, uh, a kid in the— in one of his golf clubs $500 to drive around with his phone, uh, drive the whole course. So that— because his wife was tracking him on his phone and she could see like, oh, he's going to, you know, hole 7 here. Yeah, it was a crazy story. Phil feels like— feels like things aren't going well for Phil right now.

Walls might be closing in on Phil a little bit. It wasn't just the kid. It was like everybody at that club, other members too. He was known for going up to them and just being like, hey, I'm just going to leave my phone in your cart for a couple of hours. Hope that's cool. I thought the craziest part was him hanging out with Pat Perez and his wife, and then Pat Perez gets up to go to the bathroom, and then Phil just takes out his phone, allegedly, and shows it to Pat Perez's wife. And it's just a picture of Phil naked with a boner. I think they said, like, was he flexing or smiling? He was flexing one arm and then holding his boner with— so that's surprising. He was flexing. He's a flop guy. That's what we know about him. But he showed it to her, and then Pat Perez comes back from, from the bathroom and he just acts like nothing happened. Embrace debate, is that cool? Like, to show your buddy's wife a picture of your dick if you're flexing?

Uh, I'd say no. I'd say not cool. That's not a pro move. Uh, also makes me uncomfortable the fact that like Phil definitely like had multiple pictures like that and he's like, he had to go through and be like, all right, which one is the best? Which one is my show show my friend's wife at the dinner table picture. That's the primo boner flex Phil picture that he had ready. Do you think he had it favorited on his like pictures so he could pull it up real quick?

Yes, yes, 100% for sure. And it like— he definitely went through others, like get— he went through a phase to get the angle right too.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, he probably spent a couple hours like doing portraits, flexing. That's just such a— that's just such a pose, like flexing, holding your dick.

It's crazy.

Something for everybody in that picture.

Yeah, it's crazy. The, the story was nuts. Um, I don't know how much of it's true, but it seemed like, you know, there was some extensive reporting on it. Feels like Phil has, uh, maybe burned a few too many bridges at this point of his career.

And then, yeah, it reminded me of the fact that the PGA Tour went out of their way to say that all the guys coming back from LIV, like, there will be exceptions made for people, and they, they went out of their way to exclude Phil from falling under that category when they said, like, you have to be a major champion 2022 or more recently, which was directly because of Phil. So I, I feel like the rumors have been out there for a while, and now Something happened. He didn't pay off the right guy. And, and people are talking.

Did I guess the only, there's no spin zone or like if any of this is true, it's not like defending Phil, but I would say that the, the one thing that popped in my head was like, as fierce as fierce rivals could get, Phil and Tiger probably would have a good time hanging out with each other at this point. Right? Like they might be the only two guys that they have left.

Yeah, I mean, maybe Phil, like, saw what Tiger was doing off the course, and then he said, like, to get to be able to beat Tiger, I have to act like Tiger. And so then he became like, yeah, he's like, if you, if you're gonna, if you want to commit to it, Phil, you have to commit to it fully. And that's like the deal with the devil that he made to start winning majors.

Yeah, but yeah, it's, it's crazy. The two of our, the two, the two of our, like, uh, childhood golf stars have kind of ended up in similar spots.

Yeah, I mean, there's just no way. That was kind of my thought too, is like, there's no way that the stars of current— like, this is not coming out in 20 years. Like, they—

Scotty, they—

Phil and Tiger were, you know, the best of the best, and they were just absolutely insane while doing it. But because they were so— everyone loved them. It's like, yeah, Phil and Tiger, like, literally like the two favorite— like, everyone's favorite people.

Yes, it was Phil versus Tiger for a lot of those years.

It's, it's the funniest possible sport to have the two best in the world be complete and utter scumbag perverts. Yeah, like you would not think that about golf either, but now I do.

Now I do think that about golf because they've like almost branded it that way. They've shaped the game forever.

Yeah, except for our guys.

Yeah, no, our guys are good guys. Listen, our guys are good guys. Fucking good guys. I did.

I do think it has—

what are you gonna say?

I was gonna say, do you think it has anything to do with like the nature of golf is all about being a gentleman? Like every, every single thing about the sport, you have to be polite. You wear a tucked-in shirt, you wear your belt, you wear a polo shirt, you're not allowed to smash lockers. Everything about the sport is rooted in like being very polite and almost uptight. Do you think that that it represses you? And so then if you're really good at the sport, then it makes you more likely to just go fucking buck wild when you're not playing golf.

Yeah, shout out.

Hey, you grow up in a, in like a repressive household, you're gonna be that guy that ends up acting out when you get out.

Yeah, when you get cool. Yeah, when you get cool and have money. Uh, shout out our, our good friend Brooks though, because, uh, did you see this? Made me laugh. I was scrolling Instagram earlier today and His lovely wife Jenna Sims had an Instagram reel that had like a video of their house and it says, things I did, things I do to afford a home in Portugal. And then it just pans to Brooks and says, him. That's good humor. That's good humor.

Yeah, I love that.

Good shit right there. I laughed out loud when I saw that. So, okay, what else? Oh, Grayson Allen is a Hornet. The Hornets now just are like, hey, you know what, we're going to sell tickets by getting Duke and UNC. We re-signed Kobe White and we're going to get Grayson Allen, and that's how we're going to get some, you know, we're going to sell tickets.

Honestly, not a bad idea.

Yeah.

Oh, although I don't, I don't hate the idea. Like, imagine if Philly had done that with Villanova.

Yeah, they would have won a title. That would have been nice. Although they They did, they did have like a very good fun year and then they were just like, yeah, let's blow it all up. Um, right. What else, what else did you guys see? Oh, is Michael Block in every tournament, Hank?

This guy, Senior Tour, he's Senior Tour.

No, is he playing at Travelers though?

No.

Oh, these were just clips that I saw, Blocky being Blocky.

He's, he, he just turned 50 so he can play in Senior Tour events. John Daly also was like, he, he shot like 8-under on on Friday and was like leading the tournament at one point. So I was like, there was some Senior Tour vibes, buzz. Yeah, Block Party, dude. He was— he's— I did see that clip and I was like, I checked the leaderboard and he like, he wasn't even— I mean, he finished like 7th, but I was like, thought it was like he won the tournament.

I was like, that's electric. It's like Michael Block hits, hits a chip within 2 feet and then does a Fortnite dance and it's the Chris Paul meme, like hits a 3 to cut the lead to 50. That's just—

I got a feeling like Block is gonna play every Champions Tour event. Like, he's gonna just be full-time.

People hate on Block. I don't get the hate.

I got no problem with him. He's a hilarious guy.

He just kept popping up and I was like, what's going on here? I thought that was my fault because I thought it was Travelers. I was like, how did he get into the Travelers? That was more why I was asking. Yeah, I was like, how the fuck is he just getting exemptions into these tournaments? Okay, so he's just gonna be playing that, which Listen, if you could compete in that, it's probably so much fun.

Yeah.

Who—

there's one guy who wins all of them, right? The German guy. Was— he wins all of them.

Uh, yeah, he's, he's old now though.

Was it Langer?

Yeah, I think it was Bernard Langer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was just dominating every single time.

Phil played one event in that, won like, like won by like 10, and then started LIV. Yeah, he was like, I'm not doing— he's like, I'm Senior Tour's not it.

Last thing I had before we do who's back memes. I know you're a winner now, but there were two clips this week that were just LOL Mets that we should probably address. Would you like to address them?

Which ones?

Well, the first was when the Mets were playing the Cubs and the Cubs hit a home run and then it was like pan to just all the— that one was not— that was just time and place, whatever. Norway just rowing. That was just more funny. That wasn't really the Mets' fault. Carlos Mendoza gets fired as the Mets manager and they're doing an on-field report talking about it for like what, SNY? And Mr. Met is just like doing the Dougie behind the reporter while he's talking about Carlos Mendoza getting fired.

Listen, Mr. Met's just trying to have a good time.

Congrats on the wildcard, Max.

Thanks, you too.

Thank you, appreciate that.

Congrats, guys, on the wild cards. Uh, Max, I got a question for you.

You did start that.

Yeah, I did, I did.

Yes, great.

I like it. Whatever.

I like, I like the trend. It's, it's a good thing we got going.

Yeah, just, it's a good way to just always know what the standings are.

I know. Uh, I got a question for you, Max. Is this something that I had just forgotten about Bryce Harper, or is this like a new thing that's come to light publicly, that when he flips people off, he flips with his ring finger?

No, it had nothing to do with flipping anyone off.

What? But he clarified that he flashed his ring finger at the fans who were chanting expletives at him in right field, not his middle finger. And then there's a picture that he wants to win a ring this year. Oh, because he wants to get a ring?

Yeah, that's somehow worse.

We're, we're focused on getting a ring this year.

Wait, that's— so I thought you were gonna say like, because is he— is Bryce Mormon?

Mormon? Yeah.

I thought you were gonna say something like, you know, he's Mormon, he doesn't want to— you know, it's a kid's— you know, they're, they're heroes to kids. Yeah, that would have been fine, like lame but fine. He's doing it because he wants to win a ring this year.

The goal is to win a ring. The focus is on winning a ring. So we—

you—

everyone has to just ask.

Going like this?

Yeah, we got to remind everyone. I mean, he's— Bryce is on fire right now. He's literally on fire.

It's just the funny part was it was against the Nats. And yeah, I know that our bullpen stinks and Bryce—

Well, you lost 3 games when you give up 15 runs in 3 games in the 9th inning. Yeah, 98% chance of winning all 3 of those games. It was a—

he said the bullpen was bad.

He said that, Max. We've got, I think, 24 blown saves this year, and no other team has more than 16. Yeah, I know it's a terrible— but we're still like a year and a half, 2 years ahead of schedule. We can fix the bullpen eventually.

I just had to say it was a historic 3 games.

It does, it does suck. And yes, the, the, the Phillies actually, Max, The Nats were up 5-0 against the Phillies, and I texted you and the entire group, congrats on scoring a million runs in the 9th inning later on and winning this game. And then you guys won 10-5 after scoring 5 runs in the 9th inning like an hour later. So I know, I know how bad. But the weird thing was, it was a game with Bryce against the Nats, and he flips him off with the ring finger, and Bryce left DC. And then the year after he left, we got a ring. That's what I was so confused about.

Remember when you were giving me shit about talking about Italy winning a ring like 20 years ago?

Yeah, who cares?

Well, Bryce does because he goes like this.

Yeah, he cares about now.

He's talking about the future.

You're talking about the past. We're talking about the present.

The past is for cowards and losers. Mike Dick.

I just, I, I honestly didn't know the story behind the ring, so I want to ask. Thank you for—

yeah, yeah, that's what we do.

I appreciate you asking, PFT, because I'm—

thank you.

I'm not gonna— you know what, we're on vacation this week. Max is about to get married. I'm not gonna judge. Yeah, I'm gonna hold on.

That's what you're doing this week right here, Max. Oh, one of these, Max.

Get it, dude.

Ring on it. You should be all in, fucking locked in on getting that ring, Max.

Where's your ring?

Uh, I took it off this week because I What? I felt weird seeing everyone being like, oh, welcome, welcome to the wedding. I'm already wearing a wedding ring, so I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, okay, let's do Who's Back of the Week, then we get to Mount Rushmore, Dave, Zach Top. Uh, Who's Back of the Week is brought to you by Twisted Tea. Summer's here and so is the Twisted Tea Summer Party Pack. Twisted Tea is a refreshing hard iced tea made with real brewed tea and 5% alcohol. They also have a new Summer Party Pack pack has a brand new Twisted Lemonade. That's— you got to be having a Twisted Lemonade 4th of July weekend. It's a refreshing hard lemonade made with real lemons. It's only available in their new party pack, so grab it while you can. Whether you're hanging out at the bar, hitting the lake or beach for a weekend, or day drinking with friends, Twisted Tea is here— is there to turn your day up a notch and make a good time a great time. Keep the good times going all day and all summer long. Keep it twisted. Grab a refreshing Twisted Tea today. Okay, who's back of the week, Hank?

Who's back of the week is stats and analytics being for losers.

Yeah.

Bobby Marks came out and said that, you know, I had an analytics guy tell me we view Jaylen Brown as the 7th best player on a team, not in the league, on a team, like out of a, you know, 12-man roster. And then Jalen Brown went on a tweet spree just being like, state your sources, which is the shirt he wore, you know, to the Celtics championship parade. He's always adamant about, you know, sources should come out and state your source, which I agree with. If you're going to say a source told me, state your source. And he said, roll the ball. I know these guys better than me on both ends. Who does he work for?

Hmm.

So Jalen Brown, I want, I just want, I want I know it still might not happen, but I, Jaylen Brown is going to be on a revenge tour this year and I want him on the Celtics.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think that—

go ahead, PFT. No, no, go.

I was just going to say, if that analytics person actually does work for an NBA team, I guarantee you that his team sucks.

Yeah.

Like nobody can be that dumb to think that Jaylen, but then, then the guy that, that made that comment. Clarified and said like, yeah, that's crazy that the analytics guy said this. That was kind of the whole point of him saying it. But when you isolate it and you just turn into that one quote, then it looks like everyone's talking shit about Jaylen Brown, when in reality I thought it was more that guy saying this one analytics guy is so stupid that he said that.

Dan, is there a chance that you and Jalen Brown are way overreacting because he was— this guy was actually talking about Team USA, a team that Jalen Brown didn't make the roster. So saying he's the 7th best player on Team USA would actually mean that he has Jalen Brown ranked higher than everyone else.

Was it about Team USA?

I don't know.

You're going to have to— I don't know.

Could be.

Who's deciding?

If it was on Team USA, that's a completely— that was my point. Like, if you're saying 7th best player in the NBA, like, that's one thing, right?

But he didn't make Team USA, so maybe he was like, dude, he should have been the 7th best player on Team USA.

I mean, that, that's clear that they would have said that because that's a, that, that's a non-story. If they're talking about Team USA, that's just a, that's up for debate. Obviously those guys are the best players in the league. If people want to rank them, you know, 4th, 7th, 10th, whatever, that would be a non-story.

Well, unranked right now for Jaylen Brown. Right, right. Because he wasn't on the roster.

You ever— do you ever worry that like maybe Jaylen Brown just needs to like go, go like enjoy life somewhere? Like just go be happy and take a break from the internet? He seems locked in on what all the, all the haters are saying about him at all times.

Coming from you and Big Cat, like, what are you talking about?

I was trying to defend Jaylen Brown.

Like, I am too. I think he's a great player. You just got to stop listening to everybody.

Are you on the internet every day?

It's not a great time.

Our job isn't to dribble basketball, dude, with our right hand only.

I, I, I, I think Jaylen Brown enjoys his life a lot. And I don't like, I think if people again, like you guys are crazy. Like we're about to interview Dave. He's the same way. It's like if people are talking, they just want to shit about you. You're not just going to, everyone says like, yeah, I'm just going to not ignore it, ignore it, ignore it. You guys would not ignore it. He's not ignoring it. He's a, he's a proud guy. He wears his heart on his sleeve. I'm happy that he's passionate about it.

I just want him to be happy. That's the thing.

He—

dude, he is an NBA champion.

Do you know who did ignore it?

Who?

Memes? Jalen Brunson.

Jalen Brunson has a podcast.

He did ignore it though.

He has— he literally— he talks—

he—

why, why does Jalen Brunson need a podcast then? By your example of Jalen Brown, why is he getting—

probably trying to get Josh Hart to not have to fly like economy.

Also, like having a podcast, that means that you've— you have to have friends to do a podcast. Jalen Brown just streams on his own. Oh, you stream with you?

Everyone, this is crazy.

I just wanted to be happy. In this statement, it was crazy. The funniest part about this, Hank, we are— we're actually on your side. It is insane that anyone would say that he's the 7th best player on an NBA team He's going to be the best or second best player depending on what team you pick. I don't think you can pick a team that you'd be— I actually don't think you could pick a team that you'd be the third best. He's, he's, he's best or second best on every single NBA team.

Yeah.

What team would he be third best on?

None. None. I don't have one.

I don't, I don't really have one off the top of my head.

I don't, maybe the Wizards, but I don't know. Maybe, uh, probably the Lakers.

What, Austin Reeves and Luka?

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess that's a good point. That's a good one. Yeah.

Oh, Pistons. Okay, so Pistons, Cunningham, Tobias Harris.

Yeah, it was a crazy comment, Hank. Do you think he's still, do you, where do you think, where's your confidence in him playing for the Celtics?

Same as it was when I said my stance a few weeks ago. Like, I have convinced myself in my mind that he's coming back, and I'm staying there. That's where my mind is going to stay.

We did have a very—

I'm fine.

Obviously, like, there's reports and rumors, and there's a— we'll see. Worst case scenario is it happens when I'm on an island for Max's wedding, and that's— I'm just gonna— I'm gonna ignore that even being a possibility. Yeah, you can't have that vibe in your head. Going into a vacation.

That would be best case. You can just pretend like it didn't happen.

Worst case is he goes to the Jazz because, uh, our good friend can't pick up any type of, uh, normal human interactions or social clues. Stephen Che sent me, PFT, and Hank a text being like, here's my reasoning. I think Jalen Brown's gonna get traded to the Jazz. Here's the bet. You can bet on him playing for the Jazz. Hank just left the convo. He's like, why would you send— he's like, I was just trying to help a buddy out.

Jay's been weird on Twitter with— he just does a different hypothetical trade every single day.

Yeah, that's what these NBA freaks do.

Yeah.

Oh, I think Hank, Jalen Brown, that was a crazy comment from Bobby Marks. You happy?

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, unless he was talking about Team USA, state your source, you know. Yeah, okay. PFT, who's your who's back?

Uh, my who's back of the week is quarterback rankings. Actually, NFL rankings in general, because, uh, Prisco dropped his Hot 100. I don't know if you had a chance to read it. It was the most football guy Prisco move ever. Because he was completely oblivious to the fact that, like, I think he dropped it during a World Cup game, during a United States World Cup game. He's like, this is quarterback ranking season time, this is when we sit down, we get, we get into fights. And he had Caleb and Jayden Daniels back to back, love it, rankings, to try to get the conversation going. Uh, I didn't see too much conversation about— so this is me doing a good friend a favor and getting the conversation going about it, because I think that's what he was trying to do. Do you know, guess what numbers he had them at?

Top 100?

Yeah.

All players or just QBs? All players.

All players.

I'm going to say he had them in the 30s.

No, no, not Pete.

Not Pete.

Where do you have him? He wants to see him do it again. Uh, Caleb.

70.

Okay.

Jaden Daniels, 69.

Okay. Where's Drake May?

Uh, I did not— I, I just saw those two back to back and I thought it was funny that he put— he ranked them both so low. Got it. Then I opted out of that column from then on. I can look it up and we can embrace true debate on it, uh, if you wanted to get into it. Let's see, Pete.

I'll start. You look it up, I'll start my who's back. Okay, my who's back is the city of Philadelphia. Uh, did you guys see— yeah, yeah, did you guys see the poop incident?

Sometimes people gotta go, dude.

The Noah Kahn, uh, who's a very popular, uh, singer-songwriter, had a show.

Where was it?

Was it the Link or was it I don't know where it was.

At Citizens Bank Park.

It was, it was at the bank. And apparently, uh, some fan pooped everywhere. And Noah Khan had to tweet after being like, hey everyone, if you gotta shit— like, listen, I'm a guy, I've shit my pants. He said, if you have to poop at a show, please dear God, just go to the bathroom. I've pooped my pants as much as the next 29-year-old, but you guys gotta understand, there's a venue worker out there with a thousand-yard stare after dealing with that.

That.

So yeah, Philadelphia, way to show out. Sorry for partying.

Nice work.

Sorry.

Yeah, that— great, great follow-up. Sorry for partying.

Sorry for partying.

Sometimes you gotta shit and you don't want to miss stick season.

God forbid. Imagine that guy, like, you're already so embarrassed, you're already like, that was a terrible night, I pooped my pants and everyone in my section. And then the guy you went to see the big star you went to see play music tweeted about you pooping everywhere.

Do you think that guy just like squatted where he was at and like there was enough people around him that were standing that he thought he could get away with it?

No, I think he's probably just so fucked up. He just started shitting.

Somebody wrote it up.

What do you mean?

Somebody wrote up the description of what happened to it. So, uh, this is what it said. The person who did this was one row in front of me in Section AA. I guess they didn't want to miss a couple songs, use the bathroom, so they just straight up shit themselves. Mind you, not liquid or anything, in case anyone thinks this was an accident. And they started picking actual pieces of poop out of their butt and put it on the floor. Now, are you guys ready for a plot twist? Because what I heard from you guys was a little bit sexist earlier. Yeah, she started trying to waffle stomp the turds and act like nothing happened. It was a girl that did this, allegedly.

The—

oh, how is it a girl?

Wasn't there a rumor about some, uh, some like famous actor as like he shits in the, in the, in the tub every time he goes to a hotel?

I don't know.

Oh yeah, I think that, that made the rule, the, the rounds about somebody. Who was that?

Wait, he is Sylvester Stallone. It was just like this, this famous actor, just every time he goes to a hotel, he just shits in the tub and just like, and just tries to shove it down the drain. Oh, okay. What did you find where Drake May is?

Well, what's Sylvester Stallone, by the way? According to Reddit, there's, there's a, there's a rumor. It's an open secret in Hollywood that when Sylvester Stallone stays in hotels, he always leaves he's literal shit in the shower.

Such a ridiculous rumor. Oh, that's like when you can't, like, you can't come back for, like, I don't even know.

The toilet's right there. There's nothing that is closer to the toilet.

I wanted, on the record, I, I believe, I love Sly. I believe that he does not do this. Uh, I have his back. But like, it's such a specific rumor that it's like impossible to go against. Do you know what I mean? That's so specific. Like, this one guy, he takes a shit in every single— and waffle stomps the drain.

It's like the, uh, the, the Richard Gere rumor. So, yeah, so crazy specific that it stuck around.

Yeah. All right, what do you got for Drake?

I did find— I did find Drake May. Drake May, he clocks in, uh, just behind Trevor Lawrence and— or just ahead, excuse me, of Trevor Lawrence And Justin Herbert at 61.

Oh, Prisco is so obsessed with Trevor Lawrence and smart.

And then Jared Goff is 57, Jordan Love is 51.

Okay, that's crazy. Okay, yeah, if Prisco knows how to get the people going, good for him.

This is his way.

He—

you're— it's very funny. Baker?

No Baker?

No, he loves Baker.

Baker at 80.

80? Baker is 80? Doesn't sound like he loves him that much.

Baker's gonna have a bounce back here. He's not injured anymore.

You get healthy. Yeah, play fast, play good. Yeah.

Sam Darnold, uh, 72.

Okay, Super Bowl winner, elite. All right, Zach, finish this off.

Uh, my Who's Back of the Week this week was going to be, uh, off to Texas because we had a Major Four this weekend. Anybody's catching clips from Major Four?

No, no, no worries if not. I can't say I did.

That's completely understandable. I know we had a lot of sports going on, World Cup, golf, but when it comes to virtual sports, uh, Optic Texas finished second every other major this year and they're finally able to break through and get the win over— it went to a game 7 situation, map 7 against LA Thieves.

And who—

Optic Texas is your team?

No, Optic Texas is a professional team based out of Texas. That you root for?

You root for them?

I, I would like to see the Thieves win, but I just felt like— I mean, they're back because they won after coming second 3 times in a row, so I'm just gonna respect the win.

Okay.

You were— you wore an OpTic Texas champion shirt to the EA event?

Yeah, because you got to respect— you gotta respect, like, you respect glory, Hank, you know?

So just whoever wins the championship, you're buying their shirt?

No, that's back-to-back titles is good, and then you want to support an industry where like there's not always the most going through it, man. I want to see the industry being around for a long time. So you support everybody when it comes to—

so whoever wins, you buy their shirt.

That's what I'm saying.

Respect greatness.

Hunt greatness. Yeah. All right, give us another one, Zach. That one sucked. Give us another one.

Uh, another who's back of the week this week. I guess we're gonna respect—

that's gonna crush him, right?

You, you saying that he like— that he's gonna— he's gonna be up at night tonight.

No, exactly.

He's completely correct. —like, it was— they were barely back, I guess. We'll take it back. It was only the 4th major tournament, kind of like golf. It definitely wasn't a major. And 18,000 people in the arena was in Paris, France.

Uh, oh, is that the one that Bush was at?

They, they were at the Challengers version of that, and they came in 3rd. They got knocked out by, I think, like the 14th or 17th seed. It was tough. See, I ride with Bush. Yeah, they came in 3rd, but I mean, it was, it was a rough day.

All right, listen, I take it back, Zach. You listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't like what you like, but like I need to give us another. Who's back?

All right, who's back of the week? Uh, free kicks. Most electric goal, I think, of the tournament so far is Messi's free kick.

Oh, I like what you're doing here. I like what you're doing. See, this is a good news back. Why was it so electric, Zach?

I just think it was, it was fantastic.

It was a great goal. Describe it to us. What did the goalie do? All right, so there are some reports online saying that maybe the goalie started buffering.

I don't agree with those, but there is a conversation out there that the goalie, I don't know if he's got like a crypto account that may have spiked overnight or a relative who got pardoned, but I don't believe any of those takes. Those are all people online, usually behind faceless accounts that may say that Messi kind of got the nod and he just, he was close, but he didn't get there.

It was, it was, it was really, you know what? I don't think it was the reaction of the goalie. The goalie was way out of position for that shot. Like, he put himself behind the wall, so that's where he fucked up. Or maybe that's where he was getting the, the late-night deposits hitting the account. He was standing right in the center of his 3-man or 4-man wall that he had set up right in front of him. And then of course he's not going to be able to see the ball.

It, it didn't look good from the goal, from the goal angle. It was like the, the Cal Ripken All-Star Game home run. Kind of feel to it. But listen, goal's a goal.

You kind of wonder why he's that far off the post. But yeah, it goes— goal, you're right. And I mean, if we take all the conspiracy out of it, free kicks are the fun— like, the funnest way to watch people score. Okay, now this goals— and that's—

you were sick, Zach. That was an A+. Who's back? That's how you fight. That, that's how you fight back with the Ronaldo-Messi stuff. Because it was a— I— it was not the most beautiful goal I've seen. When the— when, when the goalie could have like maybe just fallen down to right and stopped it.

I think he made a choice. He may have made a choice right there in that moment.

I don't know.

There's a couple angles where you don't believe it, but then there's like one or two where it's like, oh, he just sold. Like, he just—

oh my goodness.

Maybe, maybe he just— business decision because that ball was coming in so hot.

Yeah. No, it wasn't though. But it was not— it wasn't coming in that hot. Oh, all right, let's get to Mount Rushmore, and then we got an awesome interview with Dave week and a great interview with Zach Topp in studio. And, uh, like I said, Wednesday we will see everyone, uh, for Dingers Only, interview with John Smoltz, and a little recap of whatever happens for NBA free agency. Okay, before we get to Mount Rushmore, this segment is sponsored by Microsoft 365 Copilot. What if you could add an AI assistant to your work without leaving your workflow? Built into Microsoft Word, Excel, and Outlook, Copilot works where you work, helping you do more in the apps you already use. In Word, Copilot helps turn scattered notes into a first draft. In Excel, it generates insights from your data. In Outlook, it cuts through the notes to get you up to speed faster. The apps you know go further with Copilot. Learn more at m365copilot.com/work. Okay, boys. Mount Rushmore. Mount Rushmore. What's the— what's the prompt? Mount Rushmore of attraction— U.S. attractions that a foreigner would see. Mount Rushmore of—

well, it was on Zach's list. Okay. I can read what it said on Zach's list.

So verbatim of the topic, it's going to be Mount Rushmore of American attractions for foreigners to visit.

Okay, great. Great. I love that. All right.

So we don't know what the updated score is.

No, because we're taping this on Thursday. Well, actually, it's 2-1 Turkey A. Yes, that is the updated score right now. Yep. All right. So I think it's me, Max, and Memes up first.

And then, and then Henry.

And then Henry and Zach. But respect. Mad respect for Zach. Zach and Henry. Why are you mad at Zach right there before this started?

Before it started? Yeah. I mean, this is— I guess we didn't talk about it in Fyre Fest, but Zach and I did— played EA College Football 27 on stream, and we're teammates. Like, he had his— he just— horrible video game etiquette.

Horrible, horrible. He's correct. Why? I had a lapse in judgment. There's a lot going on.

I was up. There's 40 seconds left. I could have run the clock out. We're playing a game. We're streaming. Even, even if we weren't streaming, it's like you got to keep going. You know, I'm not just going to run the clock out. Threw an interception. Mm-hmm. Zach then— and I stood up and walked away and out of, out of disgust because it was a pick 6. Zach decided to run the ball out and down himself on the 1. To milk the clock. Why? To not even give me a chance to score with like 20 seconds left.

He was playing to win. Got it.

Oh, no, that's not— Yeah, you play to win the game.

But Hank already— I could have—

The game was over.

Hank already set the precedent.

Yeah, you should have trusted him. He's a snake.

Yeah. No snake in the grass.

It wasn't a gentleman's move. Hank had an amazing first quarter, 30 in the first.

The patronizing, whatever. Exactly.

What was the halftime score?

Uh, off top of my head, don't remember. It was a close game though. 40—

was this the one that Hank was up 30-7? Yeah, in the first. He lost 43-42.

It's a great game, both sides.

Yeah, so that, that actually makes a difference too. It's like if it's a massive comeback that you have, I feel like you have to seal the deal at the end.

Yeah, streets would be talking about it forever. Yeah, there's a lot.

He kicked the field goal instead of—

but he had a moment to make history and he made history.

Did you center it?

He didn't center it. Oh, okay. Didn't center it. Still got it through the uprights though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hell yeah. Good dub.

And then right before me and Zach were brainstorming, got a call that my car got broken into. So didn't really have much of a brainstorming session. And Zach's— I think, I think, I think this might just go Zach.

Zach's list is— Okay. Now, unbelievable. On the text thread, Hank didn't say that his car got broken into. Hank texted the group thread, hold on a second, I just got robbed. And so I saw that on my phone. I jumped off the couch and I was sprinting sprinting through the foyer to get outside. And then Hank came strolling in like whistling. I'm like, what's going on? Are you okay?

What's going on?

And Hank was like, oh yeah, it's just my car. Somebody got into my car.

They— yeah. I was like, someone broke into your car. Come out here. And then I saw like a, like all my gym clothes were scattered on the ground and my heart sank because your, your golf clubs.

Yes.

Your kids were in there. Basically.

I don't know if my kids are, it's like, I don't know what, what the relationship is. It's your co-parents. Yeah. My, my, yeah. My, yeah. My wife was in the car and thank God she was just in there all rested, untouched, unbothered. So that— then I did—

I did—

that might have been because there were righties. Yeah, true. Imagine if they took a quick look and they're like, ah, fuck it.

Are you a little bit insulted that they looked at your clothes and they were like, I don't want this shit?

I mean, it's my gym clothes, it was gym bag. So I And they— and I had like 2 yardage books, which I— they're, they're valuable to me, not to anyone else, but like they just threw them, which I appreciated because I still have them. Hank, I have something else to say.

Yeah.

Have you seen the footage yet? No. Have you? I think you're giving these, these robbers too much credit about the technology that they were using. Oh, they were just going from cars to see which was open and yours was open.

Oh, oh, sorry. I wasn't the one that— I didn't— I didn't— Big Cat was one that brought up the tech.

Well, because you said your car was locked.

My car —auto.

I thought auto lock. It does auto lock if my key fob's in my pocket.

They were just going down the way checking cars to see if they were open and they got to yours.

There's car hops. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. We don't victim shame.

Max just victim shamed the fuck out of me.

All right. Let's go. Let's do this Mount Rushmore. Give us a prompt one more time.

Prompt is American attractions. Wait. Let me get—

my bad. Let me get the exact one.

So it's American I said this Mount Rushmore is American attractions. Okay. Yeah. That you would want to— attractions for foreigners to visit. It was visit, not see.

I want to make sure. American attractions for foreigners to visit.

That makes zero difference. See and visit is the same thing. Okay. Fair. Okay. Ready? Yep. We're doing number 2. We're doing it. We're ripping it. Rip it. All right. Rip it. SEC football game.

That's a good one. All right. College football game.

Yeah. Yep. Got it. You got to get down south, different culture, get their minds blown by. Yeah, they're like, wait, this is a school? Yeah. Like, just thinking about foreigners going to Death Valley on a Saturday night or, you know, Between the Hedges, Georgia-Alabama, something like that. What?

You're right.

That's between.

What was that? What was that sound?

I was me thinking.

Between the Hedges is Auburn. The way they have hedges in Georgia, too.

I believe they have hedges and they might even have some hedges in Oxford. It's small.

It's been a long day. What? No, they do have hedges. No, they have hedges in Georgia.

That was— that sound was Hank being like, oof, I was not thinking this way.

All right, who's up?

We got to brace. We're up. Brace, brace.

We're going to go with the Super Bowl. Okay. It's America's greatest game. It's the greatest game in the world. It's our biggest event. You get to see performances like Bad Bunny and you get to see the Super Bowl.

Yeah. The reason why we didn't pick Super Bowl is because it's probably going to be in Europe soon enough because of you. Yeah.

So I was about to say they've never had them in Europe, but they're like kind of desensitized. Like a while ago they would have been like, what is this game? This is crazy. Now it's like, yeah, we see, you know, 6 games a year because of Commissioner Lockwood. So it's just another football game.

I don't know what— like, it's crazy what I didn't make the choice for them to start doing international games. I just support their choices.

Super Bowl is pretty expensive. That was, that was also one of the reasons why we're like, oh, it's tough.

I didn't know there was a price limit on this. Yeah. All right. Okay. PFT.

Okay. My, my 1-1 is to a shooting range to go fire guns. Okay. They fucking love it. When you take them to go shoot guns. I had a bunch of guys that would stay with me, like we'd get teammates that would come over from Australia, and the first thing they wanted to do in Texas was let's go shoot some fucking guns like Americans. And then they'd just be like, yeah, this is great, I love this. So I'm gonna go shooting range, number 1. And then number 2, I'm gonna go amusement or water park. Okay. They love that shit too. Okay. They eat it up.

We, we found out a fun fact in researching Mount Rushmore. There's a Disneyland in France. No idea. I had no idea. We were like, we threw out Disney and then we looked it up. I'm like, oh shit, they got one.

I didn't know that. That's bullshit too. They shouldn't be allowed to.

I agree.

We were shocked.

Like, what the fuck is that? That's ours.

Tell you what they don't have is water slides.

I think the difference is there's quite a few Disney Worlds around the world. There's a Disneyland only in California. Got it.

But Disney World is the—

I know, no, no, I think you have that.

Disney World is Florida.

I think, I think they have a couple of Disneyland around the world. And then, okay, because I thought, I thought the same thing. But then, yeah, Disneyland Paris.

Yeah. Mickey swap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That should, that shouldn't be allowed. Out. I think we can all agree on that. Okay, Hank and Zach.

Zach. Zach. Zach, anything you want. Let's go. What do we think, Hank? I think whatever you like the most in this list. Air-conditioned room. There's some great choices on here.

Okay, I would like to take Magic City. All right.

I had Strip Club on my list too.

Yeah. Yeah. I was happy you guys didn't take it because we were walking into the room to to brainstorm and he goes Magic City out loud when Max and Memes heard it. And I was like, but then I think I heard Max say like, we're not taking it.

I will say I think some Europeans may be disappointed when they realize the things that you can't do. Yeah, strip clubs are so much better overseas.

Oh, good point.

Pepper hot though.

Yeah, you guys, you guys got to get to the right rooms.

You guys are in the wrong room.

Zach, have you been to Magic City?

No, no, not at all. I haven't been to a lot of like U.S.

monuments, but I still can appreciate them for sure. Yeah. I think we got a lot on our list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would go 12-4. No. Okay.

Fine. Okay. I think 12-5.

I mean, I do like 12-5.

I think we definitely go 12.

Yeah. All right. All right. So our first pick will be— although we next pick. Well, What? What? First pick, 12th.

Okay, you say the Vegas Strip.

Yeah, Las Vegas.

All right.

You say Las Vegas. Vegas. Vegas. Vegas. Vegas. You got to go to Vegas. It's— it is Vegas is maybe the most American city we've got because it's just— we just do it to excess. It's everything. Everything to excess. Okay, now we got a problem. What are we going to do? There's so much. We got so much on our list. Which one do you think could get back to us? I think 5 might be able to get back to us. Okay.

Yeah, I think. All right.

I actually agree. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. With the guy sitting next to you, I agree. Okay.

Which one?

Bass Pro Shop is our next one. I'm going to go Bass Pro Shop. They don't have that.

Just say Bass Pro Shop. They don't have— I mean, a Bass Pro Shop. I heard Bass Pro Shop, a Bass Pro Shop.

We actually wrote down Bass Pro Shop Pyramid. So I have that right here as 4. I don't—

I don't think you did. I don't think you wrote Bass Pro Shop Pyramid.

Okay, so actually we can show— we'll show you the list after. Yeah, we have a screenshot. So here's a screenshot. Bass Pro Shop. I think Bass Pro Shop Pyramid is a magical place.

It is a wonderful place.

And it's not—

you don't—

was it in Europe?

Oh yeah. As a matter of fact, it's right here.

Yes, we will show them.

Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking kidding me. Bass Pro Shop, was it on my list? It was the first.

That's why I said the PFD. That's why I said, yeah, I was like, the guy sitting next to you, it might not get back to us.

It's a good place. I believe you. I believe you.

There you go. Look over it, over my hand.

Top, top-wise.

There you go. Yeah, that's a screenshot, not a text message.

Just a screenshot.

Bass Pro Shop here. Okay, Hank— or sorry, Zach. It's my pick. You never know with these guys.

We are going to take— You got this. Waffle House.

Okay. Yeah. Good pick.

Good pick. Good pick.

It's— it's— you get everything. You get some great food. Yep. Some great action. You never know what's going to happen.

I think we got a good Mount Rushmore going, boys.

Kumbaya. Yeah, this is really solid. This is some good stuff.

I love some kumbaya between the boys. Yeah.

You love to— yeah, you do.

Hank's giving me the face. You just victim-blamed.

You literally just interrupted, made a point that was completely unnecessary. Necessary to the story just to shame me.

Well, yeah, that was—

that was how it was at Kumbaya, like 10 minutes ago.

Yeah, that was so long. Yeah.

But it also like—

and Memes just kept saying, you got to say it, you got to say it.

Yeah. Memes, a piece of shit.

You were like, I locked my fucking door and then we saw the video and like, yeah, whatever. Hey, can I say at least like it actually is in a weird way better that they aren't using the technology? That's true. Yeah, that's a great point. Like, it just—

I didn't know about the technology. Like, I— there, like, is your car locked? I was like, it locks when I like—

yeah, I mean, I thought it would be a little shy because you'd have to be like really close, but yeah.

But I didn't know about the technology. I wasn't like going around.

Oh, I'm watching the video right now. They, they do— they take out the 7-iron and they realize it's a lefty and they put it back.

How the hell did no one send me this footage?

No, that was— he made that up.

I made that up. Made that up. See, that was more fucked up than what I did. That's so funny.

That was more fucked up. It just took a couple Just took a couple of practice swings.

Oh, Hank, these doors open up so smooth they barely even touch. Sick-ass car, dude. The guy— I think the guy used one finger and the door just opened up for him.

Oh, man. Okay, who's up? Oh, PFT. I'm up. I think so. Waffle House.

Wait, did you say— All right, I'm lost in this.

You fucked up.

I'm lost in this.

You fucked up. I'm going to go rodeo.

Oh, that's a good pick.

That is a good— they love rodeos.

That wasn't on our list, but that's a good pick.

It's like the most American thing they can think of is to go to a rodeo. And for my last one, this is really— there's like 3 ones that I want to take.

I know there's a lot of honorable mentions.

Oh, shit. Okay. And somebody already took Bass Pro Shop Pyramid. Yeah.

Yeah, good check. Way to go. That was a quick VAR.

Yeah, listen, I had my challenge, I got to use it. Yeah. Uh, Buc-ee's.

Okay, okay, we had it, we had it.

Buc-ee's. And, and they're just amazed by it being a grocery store and a gas station with like 40 toilets and the amount of stuff that you can buy there. Yep. They, they just love that shit. They eat it up. Pretty much all, pretty much all of our gas stations I've feel like are just so much better. Our gas stations are better than every store they have.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right.

Hank, Zach, we would like to take the Daytona 500 infield.

Oh, nice. Nice.

You're going to get American racing. You're going to get, you know, all kinds— again, all kinds of action. Action that is so American. They're going to remember it all.

Yeah. We played the last round very well. Yeah, but I now I kind of want to take 11 instead. Yeah.

Come on.

Yeah, that was on our list.

11. Good.

11 was on our list.

11. 5. I had 11.

Like, we went, oh, saying that we wanted 5, but we're also very—

we're tainted group.

I think for both of those things you can say that. Yeah.

So right now we have SEC football game, Vegas, Bass Pro Shop pyramid.

I think 5 rounds it out nicely, but 11 is nice.

This number is good. Can I just call my number? 5 has something to do with food. Yeah.

Oh yeah. The way that Max is talking. I mean, yeah. I mean, there's no one else that's going to take the pick.

Max is getting so passionate about it. Yeah.

We knew this pick was going to come back. Yeah.

I'm good with 5 or 11.

I think it's a strong, strong, strong decision. Oh, Memes, pull the trigger. Let's go. Come on, Mimsy. Mm. Numbers, Mimsy, just say it. Mm. I'm just staring at 11. Just say it. Whichever one you want, just say it. And then we're going to go so strong with it. Chili's. Okay, great pick. Okay, great pick. Chili's. I mean, it's just so much food and the menu is just so good. It's just—

I tell you what, I had 2 restaurants on my list. Chili's was not one of them.

Yeah, we—

I mean, listen, But Chili's is all over. Yeah, it's all over America. Yeah.

The bottom of the chips. Chili's is a worldwide brand, by the way. It's everywhere. Yeah, it's in Europe. 29 countries. OK, 29.

That's not a lot of countries, dude. Latin America, Middle East, Asia, parts of Europe.

That's parts of Europe is barely—

which parts are we talking? Chili's.

Chili's is— come on. Is America. Come on. I'm talking—

it's a worldwide brand.

I find you want to say it's an illegal pick that.

No. No.

Well, that's— if that's the argument.

No, no, no, I'm not.

No, no, you're bringing—

it's like if like, yeah, you have to have two people object to it, two teams object.

I'm not objecting.

I'm happy with, with Chili's.

Keep Chili's on our board.

I love Chili's. Chili's. Yeah, you could go to France and have it.

Chili's would suck in France. It's just—

that's awesome.

I think I had Chili's in Lafayette. I'm not joking.

It might have been There are no official Chili's Grill and Bar locations in France.

Paris, Texas, maybe. Sure, there are locations in Europe, U.S. military base. Ha!

In your face.

You can't if you're— many in Europe are primarily, but no, Europe, Germany, only in U.S.

military bases. Ah, gotcha, bitch. It looks like there might be one in Romania, but—

oh, okay, you're gonna go to Romania to go Hank asked Copilot.

That should be— that should be Hank's punishment. If him and Zach— Romania Chili's— go to the Romanian Chili's.

Listen, Chili's— I mean, I don't think that Europeans are getting the amount of food that you get at Chili's anywhere in Europe. It's everything. Yeah.

The, like, beef in the skillet queso is made out of horse.

Yeah. Yeah. But bottomless baguette could rip.

Yeah, that's a different, different beast.

Bloomin' baguette.

All right. What do we got that we missed?

We said, what's Copilot got?

Do you have it?

You want to read it off?

We had to change. We had. Yeah, I got it. Okay, give it to us. What did Microsoft Copilot give us? Statue of Liberty. Okay. Golden Gate Bridge. Okay. Grand Canyon.

And it's pretty big. Yeah.

Las Vegas Strip.

Trip. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, sure.

Here we go.

Rose Bowl. Yeah. I mean, yeah. When you said Rose Bowl, it's like, yeah, Rose Bowl would be nice. Yeah. I had Monster Truck Rally. Yeah. Medieval Times was one of my restaurants.

That would be good. That's just their history.

Yeah. That's what would make it so awesome is if, like, you took a European to our Medieval Times. Yeah. We're like, we want— I want to educate you on, on your own country's history.

Yeah, Wawa would be good. Rough and Rowdy.

Rainforest Cafe.

Yeah, Rainforest Cafe is a good— R.I.P. Gasparilla.

Cheesecake Factory is another one where it's just like the menu is just— that would blow their minds. Oh, God. Costco. Costco. Nice. Costco. Sam's Club. Wrigley. Bill's Mafia Tailgate.

That was the other one we were debating between.

Yeah. Yeah, Bills. But, you know, we had SEC football. Bills Mafia tailgate would be pretty sick. Although I feel like maybe they, they probably have some— uh, the Sphere. Yes, it would be great. Sphere.

My whole problem with the Sphere is like, you don't get this, you don't really understand the Sphere until you go to the Sphere.

Yeah, that's what Max kept saying.

Yeah, like, I wouldn't have said that pick until I went to the Sphere. Yeah.

And so it's like, I was pretty like aware that the Sphere was a mind-blowing place Yeah, but you don't—

but it's not— you don't get it. You don't get into— you don't get it, bro.

Well, no, you do get it because you've been—

yeah, I mean, you're just arguing against a pick that wasn't taken.

Yeah, you're just arguing to argue.

You guys are bullying me.

What else? I mean, New York City probably is on there.

Yeah, just Philly. Go see Philly.

Foreigners have loved Philly.

What would you—

Zach said Houston pool party. I think you— or anywhere on the Fourth of July.

Okay, I like that.

Yeah, Houston pool party specifically.

That's a pretty good one.

They got those videos where everybody jumps in at once, one after another. It's like the biggest— it's like the whole party doing a cannonball. And also Fourth of July, just pretty much anywhere on the Fourth of July is a great time.

That's a pretty good one. Which— what would you guys say would be like the more bucket list best place for European? Madison Square Garden or Wrigley?

To get married?

No, just go visit.

Uh, I would say probably—

I would probably—

it depends on the European. It depends on what country.

It's in New York. Yeah, that's true. But take out New York.

I mean, that's a big part. That is MSG. I'd say probably the biggest part. I don't know.

I would rather go to Wrigley, but for an international person, I feel like New York City, they'd want to go to MSG. Yeah. Is it a miss that no one picked Mount Rushmore?

No, I thought about that. No, no, I don't think so. It's a bit— it's a rock. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's close to nothing. Like, I don't think you see Mount Rushmore and then you're like, fuck, I'm— now what? Now? Yeah. Is there Chili's nearby?

Yeah, probably.

And then you're like, fuck yeah, let's go to Chili's.

Chili's. They should probably put like a restaurant or a bar at the top of Mount Rushmore.

Always doing something.

What is always doing something? Doing something. Sorry. Daytona Beach. Just like that whole thing. Margaritaville. Margaritaville. We thought of Guy Fieri's. We're just trying to find Guy Fieri. The key attraction being Guy Fieri.

Just go on a Triple D tour. That would be sick. That would be awesome. Honestly, I would. Yeah. Yeah, that would be sick.

The Grit sign in Youngstown, Ohio.

Yeah, legendary. Mm-hmm.

Big Texan, home of the 72-ounce steak.

Yep, that's right. Yep. I had hibachi. Amarillo, Texas. Hibachi.

Hey, you did have hibachi. What else did you have? You were firing them off. Utah at night. Yeah, Utah game at night. D.C. That'd be cool to see. Washington, D.C. Peppermint Hippo. Mall of America. Yeah, that, that will blow your piece. We're doing honorable mentions. You don't have to like— this is— we're just throwing shit out there and you're still fighting them. None of these are picks. Fair. What do you say?

What do you say? Riled up, dude. Like, I think Hank— I mean, Zach beating you in video games got you fired up.

You're on edge right now. I would say any sort of combination fast food restaurant. Like what? Combination? If you go combination. Thank you. If you go to the combination Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, we had a McTaco Hut in my town growing up, which is rare because some of those companies aren't even part of the same like parent group.

No, that's insane.

Yeah. The McTaco Hut was every time, like if there was an exchange student, we'd be like, you got to go to the McTaco Hut and their minds would be blown. Another thing that would blow their minds is just going to like a 7-Eleven and looking at the different flavors of sports drinks. Yep. And they're like, we just have the one.

Yeah, the P.T., I know you've been to this and I have as well. Texas State Fair. Texas State Fair. Pretty crazy. That would, that would blow their minds.

Yeah, they fry everything, fry everything.

And just like the amount of, you know, just— and then there's a football game that goes on. Yeah, it's just a— that is a purely Americana scene that you can't get anywhere else.

Nathan's hot dog eating contest.

Yeah, we're talking about that. It's not— it's kind of a bummer. I love watching on TV, but like in person, it's like hot and you're in a crowd. And Fourth of July, you should be like in a pool.

That's—

yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I just remember being competing in it and then like being like, please just get me anywhere but here right now. That was also because I was stuffed with hot dogs. All right. Good Mount Rushmore, boys.

Yeah. Should we have said the World Cup? No.

Uh, no, no, because it's currently happening. No, they have soccer.

Pick.

Yeah, but it's currently happening.

It would have been bad picks everywhere.

Just thinking.

No, it's all right.

World Cup's going on. No, it's all right.

Honorable mention.

We're good. Oh, oh, we could have said though, sports related, uh, a Stanley Cup parade, because that is very American. Yeah, right. Championship parades. That only happens in America. Yep. So that would be a good one.

Got it.

Yeah, yeah. Hey, fours up. Fours up, guys. Fours up. All right, good Mount Rushmore. For. Okay, before we get to Dave Portnoy, a quick word from our friends at Nutrafol. Most game-changing grooming products are just hype. What's different about Nutrafol is that it's actually built like a real game plan. Physician-formulated and clinically tested, Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist-recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over 1.5 million people. Nutrafol has formulas built for men at different life stages. Nutrafol Men for guys 18 to 49, and the new Nutrafol 50+, which is the first product of its kind specifically made for men over 50. Grows visibly thicker, fuller hair in 3 to 6 months. Nutrafol is the official hair growth partner of Major League Baseball. These are guys who perform at the highest level, and they trust Nutrafol to stay on top of their hair game. Start Nutrafol today and make the hat optional. Visit nutrafol.com and enter promo code PMT for $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping. Find out why Nutrafol is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code PMT. That's nutrafol.com, promo code PMT.

We also are brought to you by our friends at Jose Cuervo. When Cuervo enters, every moment just gets better. You find yourself in the center of the dance floor. You can't help but stand up and high-five those around you at the game, The room reacts like it just got the same text at the same time. You stop checking the time. Suddenly small talk escalates to laughing so hard you can barely catch your breath. That's the Cuervo effect. A signal everybody understands, a moment that anyone can join, and a good time that just grows. All you have to do is keep it Cuervo. Okay, here he is, Dave Portnoy. Okay, we now welcome on a very, very special guest. He's our boss. It is Dave Portnoy, second time on Pardon My Take, first time since I think 2017. Uh, I remember I was on the first time. It was the— I, I remembered it was Championship Sunday. I think it was the year that it was Jaguars-Patriots, and we had a fan or a writer from every team because remember we had Aaron Nagler for the Packers. Um, so yeah, that was the last time, But Dave has a book.

It is out as you're listening to this. Cancel Me If You Can. Go buy it now. Buy it in a bookstore. Buy it on Amazon. Buy it everywhere. Just buy it. Buy it. Buy it. Just buy it. You don't have to read it. We're not telling you you have to read it.

I've even looked at ways that you can rig buying it.

I haven't been able to figure it out. What do you mean? I mean, you could buy a shitload. No, you can't.

Like, they— so politicians buy their own books to do this, like, and they get kicked out. Like, Ted Cruz got booted because he bought his own. You're not supposed to do it. Some people, like, uh, the guy from California did it for his book. He bought— the Governor Newsom bought like a ton of them, and then if you donated, he gave you. Yeah, but they're supposed to kick you out if they find you doing that.

What about, what about if you use like—

it's too finer, by the way. He's like, I tried to buy them all, but they limit you.

Oh yeah, I was gonna say, what if you just do like a shell company and we just send Mincy like with a U-Haul truck around the nation just loading up the boxes?

I thought about the recent Mincy debacle with the treadmill because as much as Mincy sucks, he somehow did sell quite a few brick watches. Yeah. I don't know how he did that, but he did. So I debated just tell, like, go sell a million of these fucking books however you can. And like, that'll buy you a decade.

I feel like Mincy driving like over bridges through tunnels with a massive U-Haul is going to raise a lot of questions. Law enforcement. Yeah, he's gonna get pulled over like everywhere.

He would actually sell some books for you because he would just— if you told him that, he would just go to every Widespread Panic show, which he's probably going to anyway. There's probably not a ton of overlap. He would just be selling it. Like, you'd be like, you'd be like, buy a nitrous balloon, buy a Dave Portnoy Cancel Me If You Can book.

And then you got to get in the back of the truck because I don't know how many like books bookstores hold either. Like, I think there's 10. So you're really going to make your dent online, but they do limit you, I think, on how many you can buy at once because they don't want people rigging with these rankings.

Why don't we promise just like a personal thank you video from Mincy if you get the combo? If you get the Portnoy Part of My Take combo? I know it's across different publishers. That's true. I try to pre-order both. Yeah, then how about, how about Mincy, you, you like take a screenshot, you send that to Mincy, tag him him and he will send you a personalized thank you video.

I'm down for that. I'm down for anything to move the books. It's, uh, it's more— and as I, I'm talking to Dan, it, it, pound for pound, the least profitable endeavor in the history of endeavors. Yes. Again, I don't even understand how the book companies make money.

Yeah, I— it's, it's so— all right, so we— because it's funny because, you know, Dave, obviously we— it's weird we have a guest on who we know so well and who's our and I talk to you, you know, every other day. But we— it's weird that we went through the same process of the book at the exact same time because we wrote our book, you wrote yours. Are you at least happy that you did it now that it's done, even though it did suck?

Yeah, I, I'm happy it's over because I do feel like the Barstool story is pretty crazy and remarkable and probably not a similar version— like, there'll be other stories, but it's unique.. And to have what I think is a fairly accurate memoir of it, I think it's cool. Like, I'm glad I have it. I would never have agreed to do it in the first place if I thought it was going to take the course it did. And Francis wrote a good book. People think I'm trying— like, Francis wrote a good story book. It just wasn't mine or ours. It was different. And like that, his probably works more for like a movie or whatever. He wrote in his style, but it was like like just not accurate. And my blood would— I still, when I— so in the book, we did the audio, and Austin can attest to this, like I'm reading it, and when I read a Francis line, because it's probably 95% me and 5% like still his lines, I just get so mad when I read his line. Like, motherfucking Francis, I'd never fucking say that in the audio. It's like, this fucking— who— how'd this get in there?

I mean, so, uh, But it is, to answer your question, I, I think it's good. I think there's new stuff in there. Um, it's nuts because you wrote it all.

Like, you— I, I joked to you because it was, I was like 3, 3 months ago or so. I, I think there was a 3-week stretch where we didn't talk, and I think that, that was the first time that had happened in like 13 years. And I was like, what, what is— like, this is weird. And then I realized, oh shit, he's just locked in And Austin, your assistant, said that he, he taught you how to put your phone on do not disturb and that changed your life.

Yeah, that was a while ago. Yeah, yeah, I, I, it probably took me 5, 6 months, 8 hours a day. Like, I was just grinding. And it's, it's— Francis was super helpful. He gave me the outline. Like, he and I did a ton of interviews, so he had the chapters, he had everything. I followed that outline. But I just rewrote everything in. And then as you're going, there's so much more that pops into your head that, oh, this should be in there. You're trying to make it funny. Like, the back of my head, it's like, could this be a movie, a TV show? Like, I want to make it entertaining, um, but accurate. So it, it, you know, writing sucks. Like, we used to write all the time, and even writing a blog for me, a couple paragraphs to get it in a way I was happy, would take me hours. So yeah, it was a long, exhausting process, but I am glad it's over.

Yeah, for us it was— I mean, it was partially you do want to make it funny, but it's also more than that. You want to make it interesting, which is very different from blogging sometimes. Like, with a blog, you, you know, you're cracking your jokes, you might try to make a couple points if you want to, but in this you're like, you're trying to make the memoir interesting and exciting for somebody to read. And when, when I was going back and writing stuff, I'm sure Big Cat feels the same way, we uncover things that we hadn't thought about out in the last like 6, 7 years, and it makes you think and consider those a little bit more. When you're writing, are there a couple sliding doors moments that you had not remembered or that you kind of uncovered for yourself? We were like, hey, if this had gone a slightly different way, things would have been much different.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is known, um, and that's part of the issue with the book for me. It's like we're so open there's like very few things and you want new tidbits. With you guys, I think— and it's interesting because when I'm doing these interviews, I've started, I'm really curious what people think. Like, did you like the book? And obviously it's hard for somebody to be like, no. But the things they're asking me about aren't necessarily what I expected.

Um, what are they asking you?

There, there are a lot of people are early days. Like, it was like, oh, I'm fascinated by like the newspaper days of you grinding. Uh, Renee always gets brought up, like, they— that relation, because we're still, like, getting along and, and super friendly. So that fascinates people. But the sliding door moment— and I don't— I think it's well known if you follow us— and I would say the most important moment in the overall where we are now is still you guys and the ESPN thing falling apart. Like, to me, that was the moment that realigned kind of everybody and kind of forced us down the path where, all right, it's going to be us kind of together. That, that is a huge moment. There's other early things, but in our current state, I don't think we're like the behemoth if ESPN didn't ironically like create a common enemy for all of us to unite against. Yeah, I'd agree with that because it did.

It was really like in our writing our book, and then, you know, you showed us like, you know, what, what you wrote about, uh, us. We, we got to read a little bit of it.

Which, by the way, my publisher is so fucking literal. So I— for the people at home, I wrote the PMT chapter, sent it to everybody, be like, here it is, like, I just want you guys to get eyes on it because it's an honest perspective from my end of it. And there's a lot of stuff with PFT in it and our relationship in the beginning. Our editor is so literal, they want me to change it because I said PFT hasn't read it. They're like, well, he has read it. I'm like, yeah, but you didn't read it before I wrote it. Like, they thought I now couldn't publish it because you had read it before it's actually out the day it's published. That's how literal my editor was.

That's, that's unreal. Because, because other people had seen it, they're like, this doesn't count.

I said, you guys read it. Because some of the things I asked, like, do you have— my editor on the legal side, like, if I, I say, uh, like, somebody was trashing us 24/7, they're like, you can't say that. I'm like, what do you mean? They literally slapped at some point. Yes, it was that war consistently, like no sarcasm at all. That's crazy.

Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you let me read what you were— I actually thought it was very, very fair. I thought it was a great description of kind of like what our relationship is and where we stand and how like we have this loyalty to each other. And I did not realize at the start you were under the impression that we got into a big fight the first time that we met. Yes. I thought it was just two guys talking and then I read it.

I was like, Yeah, yeah, this story I remember it. Like, I, I went to Gaz, he was at the bar, I go, this guy fucking hates me, hates me. I'm like, he may not come, I don't know. And then you went back because we had the back and forth. You're like, I think I already signed when this happened. I'm like, I don't think so. I was like, I was like, he may not come here, he really hates my guts. Yeah, so we had a different perspective on how real that was.

Yeah, I guess the story was Dave and I had a conversation, uh, Right. It was— I had made my intention clear that I was going to go to Barstool. We had sealed it over a handshake. We went out to dinner at— what's that? What's that? House of Prime Rib.

House of Prime Rib in San Francisco in 2016, right after Chernin had purchased us.

And that's as good as any contract as far as I'm concerned. We had second slices together and that binds us. But at that party, Dave and I had a conversation and it was about the size 6 joke, the skinny jeans joke. 'Cause like, coming from my background, 'cause I did not grow up like a stoolie like other people had, and I was just like, let's hear what Dave has to say about it. He was like, it was a joke. And then my response to that was like, I bet you wish the joke was funnier since it caused you all this like back and forth and all this headache over the years. And then I thought that we were good and that like we just a couple guys sharing a laugh, having a direct conversation about it. And to the point where like the next day I texted you, I Like, was like, yo, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be like that. hey, that was a great dinner, thanks for, uh, thanks for the invite, looking forward to working with you. I didn't realize that you and Gaz were like, I, I don't think this guy wants to work here.

Yeah, yeah, I— because, and again, they're coming from two different worlds. So that is a, a, a, a joke that is brought up to me by every person. It's the first thing. If you don't like me, you go back to that joke and be like, this guy's the worst, he's the Antichrist, he's pro-rape. And it's like, the new guy who was coming from a world of people who didn't like us I'm like, he, he hates my guts. And it really— I mean, you were firmly a Dan hire. Like, you did— like, I— we had really no relationship. You guys forged it. I'm like, man, this fucking guy does not like me.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, we talk about in our book as well, but like, there was a little bit of, uh, like a Jets and the Sharks, West Side Story with PFT joining us. Um, but it's interesting because the, the chapter that you wrote, your, your account of BVT, I think is— everyone should go, who's listening to this right now, should go buy the book just for that. Um, but it's— I think back about it and like, it is crazy, the— from Churning to like after BVT, we all moved to New York and the plan was that like everything was gonna grow and it's just, we never planned for Pardon My Dish Show to grow so much faster, so quickly. Yes. Versus everything else. And that's where like the weird tension came in because it just— it happened so fast. It was like we blinked, it's like, oh fuck, this thing is massive right now.

It happened so fast. And there was that inherent, like, we like PMT but we hate Barstool, which it's like, they are Barstool. And especially for me, it's like, Dan's been with us forever, it's fucking Hank. Like, yeah, PFT is new, but it's Barstool. So to be like, you don't like— and there's always been a little bit of— and it all in the end melted together. Like, I'm an instigator. You guys both during that time, you're like, we prefer to just turn the other cheek. I don't do that. I never have. But it ends up like building each other because people find it. It's like there is the crossover. But yeah, it was a tense— I put that in the thing. I honestly don't know if there's a civil war. I think I used in the book if it was like the new— I think— I forget what I've written it so far ago. I haven't read it. But the, uh, The Anchorman, like, if we all threw Hank like a wrench, who he was gonna start hitting. I was like, who are you gonna fight for, Hank?

Because he'd probably just kill himself. It was really— I can't do it. Yeah, yeah, I can't do this right now. But yeah, and then it's, it's funny because obviously everyone knows a lot of the story, but like, for people who are like, oh yeah, we, we like PMT but we don't like Barstool, the— a big, big portion of the PVT blowing up was was Dave and I doing a gambling show to like 5,000 people back in like 2013 that we would do every single week, which was Pick 'Em, right?

It's like that. Yeah, the Ponder stuff, yes, it's very on brand. Like, I didn't even remember we said it. I remember the blog when she took a kind of shot at us for Ray Rice because we're like, this guy's crazy, how do you get 4 games? Like, how can you guys defend when you do this? But like, people were blaming us for blowing it up, but that was like core Barth. There was no intent. We were just shooting the shit quickly, and, and it's like we didn't even remember. That is like— we say it about everybody. I kind of said it to— before we started, I got in a fight with a PBS lady. It's like she brought up, um, we sold— she's— she just— people say stuff to me like it's a fact. Like, you're sexist. She said that to me. I'm like, I don't think I am. I'm like, well, you sold when Tiger Woods had this controversy, sinking putts, nailing sluts. That's sexist. And I'm like, I think it's a joke. And by the way, he was actually like banging prostitutes. But like, I'm talking about Summer House right now and this guy Wes being a man whore.

Nobody cares. Like, that to me doesn't make me sexist. That's a clear joke about Tiger Woods. And it's like kind of Barstool, but it's everybody. Like, you can find any group that we've talked about and made jokes It's all about intent. And I'm pretty confident in our intent that we try to make people laugh. I told that size 6 skinny jean, what they cut off when I'm like, I would never make that joke if I knew it was going to offend people. Like, I wouldn't make it now, but the goal was to laugh. Like, I was never trying to be offensive. I never would.

So does that— did that PBS lady know about the Big Ben shirt?

Thank God she didn't. I was gonna say, thanks. Oh my God, that was a thousand times worse. I still occasionally will see somebody wearing that. No way. Yeah. Oh, do you talk—

I don't even know if we can say— no, I'm not gonna say. Do you talk about like the, the, the merch side of it? Is, is Welker in the, in the book? Is it? Yeah, because it's a big part of like Barstool's growth and how we got to where we are is like we had to sling some merch.

Totally. I— and that's what always has caused— and I have a line in there, um, like I think they say in The Godfather, it's not personal, it's business. Like Well, when the business has been your life for 20 years and it's basically kind of like you, when people attack Barstool, it's like you're attacking me. So, and I think that is something about the book people have read. I hate when people, and I'm sure you guys too, like, oh, they just put up TNA or like the lowest hanging fruit. It's like, we have really smart, intelligent, funny people and we worked our fucking asses off for a long time. And even Like, the inside of Barstool, as everyone— we're far more left than, like, right. And but people see me if I'm on Fox News or whatever, um, and they just don't look under the hood. And they don't even look under the hood on things I've said. It's just you, you fixate on something.

So, and by the way, what you just said, like, that, that has obviously evolved for me too, especially after the BVT thing, where it's now— I, I agree. Like, when, when someone says something bad about Barstool, it's not— I can't just be like, oh, that's okay. Like, no, no, you're— that's like my whole life. That's literally like, I'll someday, many, many years from now, retire. This is all I'll be known for is like this. So it's like there's nothing else I have. So when someone's like, oh yeah, I read this in the New York Times, like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like, that's, you know, I said it in the last page of the book. It was actually the only time I'm like, that's crazy. I have now— I'm going to be 50. I will have been doing this for half my life. Like, half my existence I've been doing Barstool. So yeah, I take offense if somebody's like, like Barstool sucks or this, that's like, well, that's— you're attacking my entire life. Yeah, yeah.

I do think you can win some people over. It's not, it's not a complete lost cause all the time. And on that note, I'm curious, do you think that you and LeBron just got off on the wrong foot? Like, if LeBron and you hung out maybe for half an hour, no cameras, I think you guys would actually end up like shaking hands at the end, be like, all right, all right, I'm glad we got that off our chest. I kind of you.

Yeah, well, I've always said you can win me over, like, easy. Like, if you came to the internet invitation— there's different types of hate. Like LeBron and Goodell— like, when I bought that thing for Goodell to go to his basement for Monday Night Football, that probably would have ended the beef. The Business Insider and people have come for, like, my life. I would never— like, I could sit down with them forever. Never. But the LeBrons and the sports people, definitely like we could probably get over, even though I still hate him. But yeah, I'm sure all you have to do is, hey, I sneaky like Barstool, I'd like him back.

Yeah, like I'm a Stoolie. Be like, if he's like, I watch pizza reviews, it's over.

No.

Yeah, what if he was like, I hate Barstool but I love Fasoli? That's probably—

that's 25% there. I think I, I, I, I think I would probably like him back. Fasoli depends who— if he's like Mincy, no. Fasoli, probably yes. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you put in the book, how much money you've lost gambling in your life? Because that's always— you didn't? Because that's— I always in my head I'm like, hey, uh, someday if I have to write like a personal book, I'll just— that will just be what I do is I just, I just calculate it all.

I, I don't know what the number is and I don't want to know, but we wouldn't be here without— correct— the other side of it. Correct. So that, that at least is good. But no, I, I didn't put that in. Are It's—

yeah, it is one of those things that if you even stop— like, right now you're thinking about it a little bit, and it's probably like, I can't—

I directed it into horses, which is better. Yeah, it was more expensive, and at least I have something to show for it at the end of the day. Are you—

are you prepared for them to, in like 5 years, make you do like an updated book and be like, never, I'll never do an updated book?

Like, I— we have had a couple meetings about like turning it into a TV show or movie. And people are asking why did I want to do the book. It's like, you guys, and I don't know what the answer is for you guys, when a lot of things don't excite me anymore, it's like, all right, cool. But for some reason, it's made my age, like the thought of seeing like a book and like walking through the airport and your book's like in the store, ego, like I thought that was really cool. And I didn't realize how much work. And maybe it turns into like, I think the Barstool story is clearly like built for like a TV— well, more of a movie. It has everything you need for it. Yeah, crazy story. So that's kind of what convinced me. I wasn't going out of my way looking for it. Like, we got UTA, they pitched it. I'm like, oh yeah, this sounds, this sounds cool. But again, no, no conception of what we— I mean, I don't know if Austin's— this clip of me trying to read the audiobook. Oh yeah, I didn't know we had access to it, but I can't read.

Like, I just can't.

It's not easy.

But by the way, the answer for reading it off, like a little Kindle—

no, I did paper. I had to print the whole thing out.

I, I was doing the laptop.

I had a stack of papers, Dave, because I had to literally go with my finger and do that. And we also— you needed a Jerry. Jerry O'Connell should have just read your book for you. He would have done it because he was a lifesaver for us.

Some of the, some of the book book. If you listen, you're gonna be like, he is so mad that he's doing this. I can't wait to listen. Here's just— Austin says there's like an hour there.

We put in the mic. Put in the mic.

Put in the mic. Are you doing the reading yourself?

Yes. Uh, I'm just gonna read it.

I charged, uh, scratch that.

I think there were two things.

I'm not a Gil, uh, uh, but Jamaica's true. That makes sense. What happens if just something doesn't make sense? There are definitely moments when I thought, what the fuck did I get myself into here? Kind of like reading this book. I'd be broke. My mother makes a spectacular dessert called sour cream cake. Technology has never been my forte, nor is reading. More than double your equation. It was all hands, all deck, both guys. It's on and on. It's like, take out any of those.

So like gibberish.

I couldn't— it's just this little Kindle and it's hours. I, I was like, I fucking hate my agents. How could they ever fucking think I'd want— I was— I hate it. I actually have dyslexia a little bit.

Yeah, really? Like diagnosed?

Diagnosed. Yeah, like good things backwards. I think that's where I get all my name— no, not diagnosed. Yeah, self-diagnosed.

Oh yeah, self-diagnosed. But to answer you, we did our book because I think, I think honestly maybe PFT, uh, has a different opinion, but like 10 years snuck up on us. Like, yeah, it was like almost like we got a call and they're like, hey, we're checking in on this book, because they had pitched it to us before. We had done meetings before about a book and I was like, wait a second, we're about to be 10 years. What happened?

I— so I, I got pitched to write book about sports conspiracies. And I was like, I think I would like to write a book now. Um, but I'm not going to write this. We haven't written the, the Part of My Take book yet. Uh, so I went to Big Cat. I was like, hey, I got pitched to write this book and I wanted to know if you had any interest in doing a book. And Big Cat was like, well, it's been 10 years. This now should be the time, right, that we do the Part of My Take book. And it's interesting, we even had Hank write a chapter.

What actually, Dave, I don't think you guys fucked me, by the way, with the timing of your book. Like, which is very personal, but like, of all the times, like, I've never written book, you've never written book, and we decide to drop a book like 3 weeks apart, right? It's incredibly stupid.

Yes, very dumb.

Uh, but it's, it's, it's 8 weeks apart.

But yes, but yes, but that's all the people are saying. They're like, why? What is happening? I, I don't know.

I don't think was we didn't know. I thought you were doing your book. I— there was a miscommunication. I knew you're doing your book. I thought for some reason it was coming out like 2 months ago. Yeah. So I was like, I thought there was like a 4-month gap.

It is very funny that like the 2 least likely people to be writing a book, it's like us and then you writing a book, and we're both doing at the exact same time. Yeah, something in the water. Yeah, something weird happened there. But in, in our book, obviously Hank writes a little bit, so we're trying to get Hank to become a New York Times bestselling author. Author, I don't know that I've talked to you about your first impressions of, uh, of young Henry Lockwood and what kept him coming back, because I know that he was fired, he came back a couple times, the resume might have been, uh, embellished just a little bit. So I don't know, do you have anything in your book about Hank? Oh yeah, Hank's in the book.

Uh, yeah, I mean, he, he, he was like a helpless blob of a human. I mean, there's that picture of him from like, um, Milton's pimple look, and he had like ketchup all over him. He's wearing like sweats. And, and really what happened with Hank was Gaz was still the same exact guy he is now. So I would have Paul, "Hey Gaz, you got to do something. We need this, we need that." And Gaz, the supreme delegator, would tell Hank to do it. And Hank was brand new, and I was screaming at Hank. And finally I'm like, why am I even yelling at this guy? He's brand new. He clearly is a helpless human Like, he has no life skills. He— his school was not even real that he put on the resume. And so I'm like, Gaz, you're going to have to figure this out and get rid of Hank. So I have to yell back at you. So Hank was fired, and I think Gaz told him, just keep coming, which he did. And they slowly grew into the role. But, you know, I've told the story. I think it's in there when Hank— Hank went through his phase of trying to catch the drone out of the air, like he wasn't letting it land, and it, like, chopped his finger off.

And we took him to the ER. And he— I must have been on speakerphone. His mother's like, I told you not to trust Dave Portnoy. I can hear that. I'm like, right here.

Yeah, he— I— the, the Hank first day being—

I don't remember how he ended up with you guys.

He just— he— Hank and I were like doing a bunch of stuff. Like, we would travel. He would come with me whenever I did a trip. So like, we did the Blackhawks like LA trip. We uh, the Tampa trip in the Stanley Cup Final, he would come out to Chicago and do videos with me. So he kind of became my guy, and then we would go do trips together. We did the Bro Show together, and then it was like, I, I want— I need a producer. I know he can do it. And, and that— no, he could do it at that time.

Well, yeah, exactly.

Like, yeah, well, we didn't know we could do The Pocket, but Hank was— we put it in our book, but Hank was about to leave Barstool.

He was, he was, yeah, he was one foot out the door on the Dixie tour because I told, I mean, you probably, I don't know if you remember it, but like you, you flipped out on me on the Dixie tour because we didn't pick up Feidelberg from like the airport, which wasn't my decision, but like you, you just let me have it. And I like kind of made up my mind. I was like, I don't, I think when this tour ends, like I might be done. And then we did that road trip.

Where were you gonna go?

I was— I was—

no fucking way. I was— I was— cut tickets at the UMSA. No, no, no.

I was on fucking tour at all these schools with like the hottest girls in the world, and I was 21, and I was like, I can still go back to school. Like, if I ever have a chance to go back to school and just be a fucking kid with like all these people around, like, this is it. And I told Big Cat that on that road trip.

It was the LCS day when we went Chicago and, uh, in New York back and forth.

There was like a week because that, that happened. There was a week where I like made up my mind. Like, I talked to like Caleb and Ben about it. I was like, this is what I'm gonna do, this I'm gonna do. Like, in my mind I was like, this is done.

But you were staying through the troll when you were, uh, being an asshole to us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't believe that.

No, Dave, I had— wait, it's in our— like, he said to me he was thinking about leaving and he was very serious, and I told him because it was right in that sweet spot. Well, that's where you had told me and Kevin about the Chernin investment. So I told Hank, I was like, look, this guy's buying Barstool, like, things are going to change a little bit. We're going to have more money, we're going to do different things, we're all going to live together. Uh, so that was like part of the reason why he's like, all right, I'll stick it out. There was also—

you talk about it in your book, uh, Dave— but this was a time, and like, me and Big Cal were close, and this was like the Gchat gang, where like there was real tension with you, Dan, and Kevin, and like you talk about it in your book, but I like, Dan, you know, me and Big Cat on these trips, like I would, I would hear stuff, we'd talk about it, like, and so on that road trip was me, Dan, and Kevin, and I was like, this is, these two are gonna get it more than anyone, where I'm like, hey, I'm kind of done, this is what I'm thinking, and they both were like, no, like, we're, you know, this turning thing's gonna happen, but that, I thought I was gonna be talking to two people that were like feel the same way, kind of. And it was the, the opposite. Yeah.

Wherever you got to stay, you, Hank, to think that you deserve— unbelievable. I don't believe you would have had the guts to leave. And I've heard so— at that point you were just a useless little blob still. I've heard so many people, when it's— they get yelled at or whatever, be like, I'm gonna not re-sign here. And you know what, they, they're the first person in the re-sign line. I don't know if I believe you.

This is before contracts. I, I mean, it is what it is, but How are you?

What school? What was your fake school? What school do you think I'm getting into?

I would—

I was gonna go to like a film school. Like, I was gonna like, I don't know, USC or Emerson or something. I had— I had enough experience doing production. Like, I would like USC, like Southern California.

You think you can hit the USC?

I thought so. That's crazy. I do remember.

Can we admit? Southern Cal, that's like one of the hardest schools to get into.

I had a full year at a film program and I had 2 years of experience filming.

Northern Cal wasn't even in business.

It was when I went there.

I have a certificate of, uh, uh, what was it? Not a degree.

GED? No, I was just gonna go to Southern Cal. Okay. You're gonna go to Harvard.

Again, I was at all these schools every week.

We were like at these schools. I was like, I fucked up not going to like a big school.

No, so Hank, in Hank's defense, in that moment moment, it did suck for him because it was the Dixie Tour, which there was no real plan for it. And it was Caleb, Busboy Benny, and what was the other kid? Yeah, yeah. And you didn't— and, and Dave, this is something that, like, you're, you're one of the fairest guys in business. You're, you're fair to all your employees, but you also, if you know you can yell at someone who can take it, you will give it to them. Oh yeah. And if you don't know someone, you'll kind of just leave them alone. So Hank was in a spot where you didn't know Caleb, Busboy Benny, or Yev. You knew Hank. So Hank was just getting all the shit for their mistakes, and he was like, I can't do this anymore.

Yeah, that's fair how that would go, for sure. And Caleb, like, I yelled at him one time for like screwing up a picture with Bieber, and he tried to like beat me up at a Super Bowl party. Uh, but no, Hank definitely in the— I mean, Hank was sort of my guy for a little bit, so they get yelled at for sure. Yeah, I just don't believe this theory that Hank was going to be like, oh, I'm done with Barcelona, I'm going to USC. Like, that is—

you might have stopped the next Spielberg.

That would have been a heavy, heavy dose of reality.

Hank going to USC and being like, I've got, I got 2 years of experience, uh, filming wet t-shirt contests at universities across the—

you should, you should apply to USC right now. Actually, you probably would get in now.

Yeah. Are we gonna have to dig up his resume that he used? It's in our book. Yeah, it's misspellings, fake schools.

The school was real, it just got unaccredited after I left.

All right, I'm gonna go to USC. I thought I was— I wasn't gonna go at you as hard of you that, uh, South Carolina— I don't know what their deal is, but I think USC is like one of the hardest. That's where everyone's cheating to get in. Yeah, yeah, the documentary.

And I would assume it's like literally just nepotism hires of everyone in Hollywood.

Wow. And it was gonna be USC.

I just knew if there was ever a clean break, it was gonna be after that tour. Because I was like, what, when this tour ends, like, am I just gonna go back to the office? Like, I didn't— it was—

and that was a— that was it. And Hank brings up a good point, like, the Churnin— the Churnin investment came at the perfect time.

That also was a sliding door, uh, moment. 100.

Because Kevin and I were in this weird spot where we were working really hard and, like, loving our jobs, but Dave had started to make money. We were making like big money, and it was like, are we just gonna blog forever? Because like Dave has Barstool. If he sells Barstool, he's— he can walk off in the sunset. What are we? Uh, and then Churning came along and it was like, okay, now we have a real thing that we can go for.

100%. Yeah, and that came out of the left field. Like, we weren't looking for it. It was through, uh, Jared Lorenzen. Yeah, so without a doubt, uh, that— there's been so many I mean, and people always ask that, and I think any business, like, there's been a whole ton of luck. Like, it's the right people in the right place to take advantage of the luck and the breaks, and we did. But the Churnin thing was huge. The ESPN, a lot of big moments.

So I mean, after the Churnin thing, the other big moment I would say would be when they legalized gambling, 100% sports gambling. So like, if, if sports gambling doesn't get legalized, what do you think Barstool looks like from that moment on? Obviously we've been doing everything, you know, for years. So there's a lot of stuff that's not going to change. But I mean, that was a big opportunity. So like, without that, where do you see the company going?

Yeah, I thought I'd be done at Barstool. Like, we were— I was coming up on the 5 years at Chernin. Um, I put in the book, I didn't even— I, I didn't even look back. I hadn't renegotiated with Chernin. I was making $400 grand a year, like, and I never got more from them. And in hindsight, I think it's a little insulting, like, how big the company had been, that they're never like, hey, You're killing it. Like, maybe you shouldn't be making what you made when you signed it. And then their offer to me was, I think, like $2 million a year or something, which I thought— this is kind of like at the height of like my personal brand and everything. It was like very insulting. It's like, I can go do this in a second. So I didn't think I would stay. I don't know what would happen with Barstool. Barstool. I don't know what they would have done with you guys' contracts, but I think I probably would have been on my own. Yeah, which—

that would have been a civil war, which would have sucked.

Yeah, I don't even know if it's civil war. Like, I had no animosity or anything to Barstool. Like, I could go just retrench in Boston and like get my own deals and kind of do— I wouldn't like necessarily—

civil war, I mean more like I wouldn't want to work for them without you.

Yeah, right, right, right.

You know what I mean? Like, I would go with you. I'd be like, I'm not working for Churning Company without Dave Yeah, what you see now a little bit, Dan, too, in PFT, to a great—

it's like one of the weird spots during the churning years for me is I am involved in negotiating contracts. Theoretically, I'm like management, so the better deal for the company is better, but I'm also talent, so it's like not good for me either because when mine's up, it's like I want to get a deal. So yeah, the— it— if without the gambling thing it probably doesn't— it doesn't all happen in the end of the Churn. And I mean, I like Kerns. I think they're gonna be a little bit like, oh, we didn't know Dave felt this way about how that all ended. But I didn't love the way our— our— like, I didn't love the way it all ended with Churn. I thought there was too much negotiation and too much like, I guess, not thank you, we just made you a boatload of money, and we all have to work our asses off, by the way, and aren't getting paid up front. So I was a little I guess it was eye-opening.

Yeah, how business is done. And, and nobody's your friend.

Like, I think we are unique in that we really do try to do right by people, but that is not like— if someone invests in you, they're, they're trying to get every nickel out of you. And that surprised me a little.

That's one thing I covered too, from my perspective, is like the negotiation process and talking to people at different companies and having to go through that experience to, to really understand the vibe from them and really understand what it would be like working for somebody else, as opposed to like here at Barstool. It's, it's quite literally the best place to work. It is. It's the best environment in terms of a boss. I've told everybody this, like, you are a great boss to have. You trust your employees to go out there and do their job, which is very rare. You don't have micromanagement. And yeah, it feels like, uh, there's a lot of risk out there if you were to go— anytime you sign a business deal. And when you signed with Penn, I'm sure that there were some things that they promised that didn't end up being like exactly what they said at the time because they're trying to impress the shareholders and all that. And then when they, when they sell the company back to you for a dollar, um, do, do they make that offer to you or do you say, hey, look, I hear you, you might need me to buy it back?

That, that's all covered in it, but which I thought would be the biggest story of the book. That was, that was my offer to them basically being like, all right, well, we're gonna have to figure out a way to make this happen. You you guys are going ESPN. I'm not going to go really quietly into the night. So how do we make this work where you guys get what you want, we got what you want? I mean, and even to the, the what you just said of like how Barstool works and over the years, and sometimes I get a step, take a step back. I'm not great at it, but that's why me and Michael Klein butted heads instantly because he comes in from an agent world and I'm like, I, I've been working my ass off to get to this point. I don't always have the answers. Like, I don't necessarily have how are we going to make money. It's like I know, and, and it doesn't always work, but with the employees, like, just trust me, like, I will take care of you, I'll do the right thing. I'm not sure what that looks like.

And then he comes in from nowhere, and I'm just like, who the fuck is this guy?

And it is, it is funny that you're saying this because, like, the, the business stuff that, like, churn in, you know, you in your book that maybe didn't end well, and there is a business world out there where everyone is cutthroat. And I think it's been to our benefit that we are the reverse. Through the years and wars. Because you— and it's in your book— you showed me incredible loyalty when dealing with Chernin and like that whole process when Chernin sold to Penn. And then I in turn, like, Penn didn't really expect me to have the loyalty that I had to you when Penn, you know, that, that fell apart. And it's like, I don't think people really expect to deal with business people like we have on our side, where we're like, no, we're just gonna like, fuck you guys, we're just gonna stick together.

It's the number one— what has made us viable over 20 years, or 20-plus now. And this is probably the same as sports when you look at it. You guys, PMT, and myself could all make more money probably on our own if we drop the idiots and it's just like, we're gonna take the most we can get and, and just that's it. That's all we care about. You guys could have made more on your own. I could have, but we haven't. So when you have the top breadwinners— and we lose some, not everyone does that, like Color Daddy, Boss, and those— and you can't blame them, they took the biggest things. But we have enough where everyone can be paid pretty well, enjoy their jobs, and, and it— but if you guys were like, I need the most, I need the most, it wouldn't work. Like, it just— the whole thing would fall apart. Apart at the seams and we wouldn't have the company we have. So, and that also is what I know, Dan, at times drives you crazy, has certainly driven me crazy. Oh yeah. Is you sometimes get the feeling like the Nicky Smokes of the world may not get that, or like, yeah, or people being like, we want raises.

Like, the raises people ask for in our world, they come in, it's like, I, I think I'm due like a 100% raise.

Like, what? I, I, I actually apologized to Dave last year at Saratoga because I like, now that I've had to dip my toe into this and deal with people's contracts and deal with all these, like, people— everyone wants, you know, more. Every single person wants more. I was just— and being that, that push and pull of, like, kind of the boss, kind of talent— I apologize to Dave. I was like, I get it. Like, I get why you, you were pissed at people. I get why.

Even, like, Netflix— Rosillo, he couldn't believe that I asked him if you want to do the Netflix. I'm like, you don't have to do it. It's your podcast. He, he was, like, over the moon. He's Like, you're asking me if I want to do it? Like, yeah, of course, it's yours. Yeah, like, we let people— like, even as you guys know, Netflix, I thought it's a great deal, no-brainer, but if you guys were like, we're not doing it, it's like, all right, we're not doing it, even though I think it was the right move. So people have— once you, once you have a thing, it's your thing, and we try to do it together.

Yeah, that— I mean, that was one of those things where it was like, Netflix, the money is incredible, and it's, uh, something that we do to be able to employ lots of other people that work here. 100%. Uh, Hank.

Hank has a bunch of questions.

Not a bunch, I got a few. I, I, the book was great. I obviously enjoyed the whole thing. I read— I, so obviously everything from after I was there, I know a lot of it, so I kind of skimmed through. But the first, I don't know, 10 chapters are great. Like, I love— I've always loved the early days of Barsuul. How'd you read it?

Yeah, how did you get a book before anyone else?

Awesome. I got like the— oh, preparation. I'm always prepared. Did you read read—

did you read Don Quixote yet?

No. Uh, but I— and I knew like my— the— some of my favorite Barstool stories, the Angel of Barstool, and obviously Ian White, like the guy that basically started the website back in the day. The one I didn't know about, and like I feel like is maybe the biggest sliding door person of all time in the history of Barstool, is Aaron Boyce.

Oh yeah, yeah. So Aaron Boyce, this is like right when we started I went to the printer of the newspaper and I had my buddy DiPietro have this like crazy elaborate design and I just sent all the articles like as Word documents. I'm like, all right, let's print the newspaper there. And they looked at me like I was crazy. They're like, you need to put this into a newspaper format. One of my best friends at the time from Swanscott, this kid Brian Hayes, his wife, his friend's wife worked in the newspaper business. And just got laid off at like the same company I was trying to print at. So he's like, she may be able to help you. This was days before it was supposed to start. It's like, oh yeah, I can do it. She worked for 7 years, probably every single issue from that day forward as like a freelance. And we'd be— I'd send her the articles at, uh, I don't know, like 5 on a Tuesday, and we'd be up to like 4 AM on a Wednesday. So without her, I don't know— there's a lot of those. I don't know what would have happened.

That's crazy. Yeah, insane.

I mean, you want to talk to her occasionally?

Like, she was interviewed for this and she's in the documentary. Um, but yeah, I had absolutely no idea how to print or produce a newspaper.

How many, how many fake names did you write with? Because I, I know that you had to have, like, you didn't want the, the paper to seem like it was all written by the same guy.

Yeah, right. I had so many. Uh, Devilfish Dave, like, uh, that was the poker player or something. I probably had like 10 in the newspaper. Yeah. And then We get in trouble. Like, I remember, so my thing in the early days, which I've told, like, I'd put Morton Steakhouse and then I'd call like another steakhouse and be like, hey, your competitor's in there, you better get involved. If Fleming's— it was Fleming's— and Fleming's called, they're like, why is our ad in here? We want to sue. Who did it? I'm like, oh, the salesperson quit. I don't know how that happened. So I'm trying to do anything to get any, any advertising. And the paper is 3 grand grand. The whole kit and caboodle was 3 grand to produce. So as long as I could get 3 grand in, yeah, it's like, all right, I'm breaking even. I'm living at home. I had no other expenses.

Yeah. Uh, and I mean, the— you guys, I mean, obviously Dan was involved, like, when I did first start, the— you guys were just bloggers, you know, the first 4 years. It was like you guys, the day in, day out, was literally just running 12 blogs a day and just like talk about the I guess the, the art and balance, because you guys did your own, your own websites, your own cities in different ways. Like, the— what was your, like, balance and art of the blog?

Well, we all had, like, the wake-up, guess that ass, and then in between it depends if your sports are going, but it— you try to balance sports and funny. And really, not everyone— people think I say it as an excuse. I actually— when people go back and find the blogs they think are offensive or whatever I actually think our track record is so good for the amount that we're publishing, trying to be funny. Oh yeah, no editor. And it's like that, I always— it's like you're going back to 2010 for one blog when you've got read everything I've ever written. But you just try to make people laugh. Like, you look for weird funny headlines. The things I, I got— the, the size 6 Tom Brady's kid, I didn't think twice. Like, I wrote, published, go. And I never even registered. I had just done something that created like a major controversy. I just want to be funny.

We were doing 9 to 5, every 35 minutes, new blog. And then like we— after, after 5 o'clock, like you still had to do like 3 or 4 blogs. It wasn't like the day was over. You took a little break for dinner. But yeah, you're right. Like it was, you know, 12 blogs a day, every day. Yeah, there's going to be a couple that are maybe a little offensive. Yeah.

And I was locked in like you also be locked in on your sports. So it's like you do those blogs and the Red Sox are on and I'm like locked in with my camera waiting for like funny things on TV, whatever it may be. Like, and then I'd blog probably till midnight, 1:00 to have my early one scheduled so I won't have to wake up and rush. And then you just go. It was truly endless. And again, that is luck. Like, like, or Sliding Doors. Our first 4 before Dan Kefsky, our paper writers were excellent. They were like really, really good. Jerry Oldballs, um, I have a good line about him. I'm like, we called him Oldballs like 20 years ago.

Like, we signed him when I— like, it was his 80th birthday, yeah, 20 years ago.

Uh, and then finding Kevin, Dan, K Marco were all fucking great. So like, it was really funny, talented writing. And like, we haven't found those writers in a long time trying to find that. We found them right away.

Yeah. And it was, uh, it really was so funny. I think back about it because I actually think like it was a simpler time where it's like you don't have a million things going on. All you got to do is worry about the blog. But the anxiety I would have when I would like leave my house for like 30 minutes and be like, what am I, what am I missing? Missing because, because we were all competitive too. Like, you know, the reblogs and people— yeah. Oh my God, the reblogs were like the biggest crime you could ever have.

You wrote something that someone else wrote, or is it you guys had different beats? Yeah, like it was like something happened. This is bullshit. This person blogged about Rob Ford. Like, that's my beat.

Yeah, you had your own. Yeah. And even now, even at this, it's— and I'm obviously doing not nearly— it's hard to be in and out. Like, it's hard to have one foot in and one foot out, and when you put one in, you kind of get dragged in and want to talk. But yeah, it was non-stop. I remember my first vacation, and this wasn't the troll one, like the website broke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you, you're such a fucking piece of shit for that. You, you— yeah, we hired these guys to create a whole new Barstool, and Dave's like, all right, I'm going, I'm going away.

Uh, first vacation, that guy, the dev nest, I've described it as when people said TurboGrafx-16 would be bigger than Genesis. Like, he had some other code that he said was like replacing the internet, and it just didn't. It just didn't happen. And we're the only ones who went that route. It just didn't work.

And he might have saved us a little bit in the end because he did totally— he did delete like 2 years of history. Not intentional.

No, no, like they did on purpose. No, it was— I was fuming at the dev.

They were cooking in, in, in that office for like 8 months months prior, and they would have these like whiteboards and like charts explaining the code, which none of us knew what they were talking about, but they were just like, this is how it's going to work. And then when they went to go, it just literally completely—

they banked on a totally different language that the internet was. It just didn't. It, it just didn't at all.

Do you think if you threw like unlimited money at that problem right now, you could ever recover what was Probably because I think, like, you—

if I send Pete something I want, he can somehow go back and get the individual by itself. I think, like, another thing we had which I loved— it would get us in trouble— for a brief time we had a story spinner. So you pressed it and you didn't know what blog you were getting from, what year, what time. It just gave you a random over the history.

That's a problem. Yeah.

Yeah, I know, those early blogs, some of them are like very, very funny.

I mean, remember when you—

remember when you— when you're like, you— your mom delivered all the newspapers to New York, like, oh, we're gonna— we're gonna start republishing the newspapers.

Oh yeah, that lasted like a minute. Yeah, it was the 20th anniversary. I had them all. It's like, all right, we're not— we're not gonna do this.

Yeah, yeah. Um, all right, well, everyone go buy the book Cancel Me If You Can. Uh, Zach, you— you got a last question? Roback question. rhoback.com, promo code Take. 20% off your first purchase. Q-Zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Rowback.com, promo code Take. You ready, Zach?

Sir, how we doing today? Uh, sir, I'm good.

That's good to hear.

I did have a quick question, if that's okay. Uh, you, you hit on a little earlier in the interview that maybe in writing the story, uh, of Barstow in the book, maybe you unlock some memories you hadn't thought of in a while. I was wondering if maybe you could share with us and listeners maybe a small moment, uh, that gave you a good laugh in, uh, in writing the story?

I mean, a lot of things did, to be honest. Oh, I— you know, the book is about the story, so you can't spend more time on some things. Like, Bosco always makes me laugh, and he does have— again, like, my— the lawyer, because I call him a terrorist, they're like, you need him to approve that. I'm like, no fucking way am I getting Rico Bosco to approve that he's a terrorist. But there's all the little stories, the different characters and people we've had through the time of doing it. I mean, there's a lot— it's a funny story, and there were a lot that unlocked. But again, one sticking out right now—

how you roast every— basically any employee that you mentioned is met basically with like a 2 or 3 sentence roast that I could picture you doing your little laugh, loving it. Yes, as you're writing it, like every time it was like, Dave loves Yeah.

As I introduce new people, I will try to do like Hank said, a quick paragraph to be like who they are, why are they in the world, and why do I think they're a moron. Yeah. How much— I do that real quick.

How much time does Bosco get in the book? He got like one—

well, what did I— oh, I think I told you where he comes in. I'm talking about Ponder and the Pick 'Em Show and how much trouble it caused. Us. And I'm like, but that problem paled in comparison to the other problem that Door Open Pick 'Em Show, which was the caller Rico Bosco. Yeah. And I did like a page of him basically terrorizing everybody. So that's how he got worked in. And again, it's weird because our editors didn't know anything about us, so they would be like, you can't— like, I had Tommy Lights in the book, who was the— Tommy did the did the music tour, wore a suit and like said he knew how to do— like, you can't say that. Nobody— it's confusing. People won't know who he is. Like, our people know everything. So that was always a push-pull where they didn't want me to really mention new people without giving clear, like, reason why they're in the book. And like, I need it for the Barstool. And I don't know how many non-Barstool people will read it. I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure there'll be some.

Zach, do you have a follow-up? That was a good question. When was the last time you talked to Dave, Zach?

Uh, I said hello to him in passing last time he was in the office.

Okay, nice.

Yeah, that was— why was I in the office recently?

March Madness? No, I thought it's something more recent, but I think maybe a little later than that.

Oh, okay, nice. I did have a quick follow-up, but that's okay. Uh, I do see you, you do like do the Tea by the Sea, you're out by the beach, uh, down there in the Keys. I've also seen you on the boat doing some fishing. You ever think to maybe do some onshore fishing? Has that ever crossed your mind down there?

There?

Uh, well, I'm in Nantucket now. I would not off— I would not onshore fish near my house because I consider those— even though there's like snappers and stuff, they feel like pets more than like fish to eat when they're like right in your backyard. Um, and I don't go on boats ever since I sailed away.

That's completely understandable. And that happens to any cat.

You didn't leave the harbor though, right?

No, I, I— no, I, I shot a flare in the harbor in the middle of the day.

Wait, last question.

Is Max in the book at all? No, Max.

Wait, he was wondering who's gonna be your guy.

I know both those guys sitting there. We found, um, he wasn't close to ever being the guy, but he came in through like— I think we had 5. We had the guy who didn't show up because on the first day of college football. Austin was part of that group.

Uh, I think there were 2 more. Yeah, yeah. Carolina Mark. Oh yeah, Carolina Mark. Oh yeah, Carolina Mark just disappeared. Oh yeah, he literally was Sad Eyes Dylan.

He was—

oh yeah, but Carolina Mark, without telling anyone, no one realized for 2 months Carolina Mark was in a stream with us, and then the next day he was just gone.

Poof. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I'm trying to think if there's people I didn't mention that like are gonna be like, oh, I didn't get mentioned, because unless you come up— it's sort of got weaved in, it's hard to mention everybody.

Max won't care. I had zero expectation of being in that.

Oh no, we don't care that Max— yeah, he's not one of those guys who I was thinking would be like, why, why me?

They do.

I don't know if they do.

Got to mention. Oh, Dave, that's writer of the year material right there.

The orgasm for you callback was— made me laugh so hard to the— his YouTube. Yeah.

Are you talking about McAfee in that one? There?

Yep. I— yeah, mediocre on McAfee. I think I explained that. That was in like the building superstars and they leave, and I talk about his exit, which we're still friendly. I haven't talked to him in a bit, but it was a little murky the way he, he left here, I would say. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I talk about him. Call Her Daddy chapter, people will get a lot out of because I, I still think a lot of people don't— it's hard hard, I guess, still so mad about it. But they don't realize how involved Sophia Franklin was in my Business Insider troubles, right? She was directly involved.

So that Superman's in, in our book, right, PFT?

Yes, Superman's in our book a little bit because he— I, I went out for a meeting with him during my contract negotiation, which happened right before the Call Her Daddy thing. And so he was trying to be like— I mean, he was, he was doing what he was there to do, which is say, like, if I worked at HBO, like, I could have a show and I could be— I think his words might have been the next Jimmy Kimmel. Uh, and I was like, I don't think this guy's ever seen anything that I do. Uh, and then later on I come to find out that there might, might be some of the same promises that were made to Sophia that he was making to me. And I saw through him and I was like, I don't, I don't think it'd be a good idea to split this up.

Yeah, that— and, and they were in cahoots, Klein and, and I can't prove it, but they were friends. I mean, that, that whole whole— yeah, the— and again, it's the agent's job, but that, uh, Superman, I've never even met myself. I— he does hate us. I still think it's crazy, um, the guy who runs WWE now, that he— like, he invited me to go to a fight and sit with him right after— right after— yeah, yeah, TNT blow up.

It's like he was Ponder's agent. Yeah, yeah.

And it's in— again, it's like I had to— for anything I want to say in the book, I had to dig up and prove it. So like, here's the article that says it was Nick Khan who brought it to ESPN. Yeah, sliding doors moment. Still to this day, after that thing broke up, the fact that Skipper got fired like 2 weeks later— incredible. Just, that's when I'm like, oh God, maybe on our side here all the way throughout. Like, the timing of that is just surreal, that it took 2 weeks till he got— he had to quit for the coke problem.

Yeah, the 2 times I felt like the biggest loser was one when we went to the Breeders' Cup with Wes Welker. And then the next year he got busted for doing Molly at Kentucky Derby. And I was like, he, he just didn't want to offer us any drugs. And, and when we went to John Skipper's office and he didn't offer us any coke, none. It's like he, he probably thought we were cops.

The Loud Sean story is very funny. Sean, like, you want to talk about a guy who's like a unicorn? I talk about PFT dragging him out out of the pool, putting coke in his eyes. They're like, but was it? I'm like, yeah, he was. And he's like, he's arguably the craziest guy we've ever had. All-time, all-time barstool party.

That was a great party with Bortles and Goff. And somebody left their window open in extreme detail. The window open, the blinds.

Oh yeah, Bortles saw you getting—

yeah, I saw a lot. Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's already out there. I, I, that part, there's certain people like, just skip this chapter, that chapter, because that's Ingrudgement Day. I think that's—

ah, that's there. I texted you, Dave, ran into her. Yeah, I know, in Vegas for Max's bachelor party.

I also saw Light Switch Lou. I thought he said Lou for a second. I saw him tweet like 2 weeks ago, if anyone wants the real story, you can talk to me.

Hey, Lou's texting me Happy Father's Day, so I hope Lou's doing well. Um, all right, Dave, thank you so much for joining us. And, uh, yeah, go buy the book right right now.

All right, I appreciate it. See you guys.

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It is tasting great since '48. I'm grilling all week, I'm eating my cheeseburgers, and I'm cracking open a Mountain hanging with friends in the backyard, drinking a Mountain Dew. The refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew was proudly born in the foothills of Tennessee. They have the new American Dew cans to let you know they are quintessential Americana. Enjoy the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew and American original. Look, it's 250 years. America's been around for 250 years this Saturday. What better way than to drink an American drink? Drink, born in the foothills of Tennessee. That incredible ice cold refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. It's perfect for anything you're getting into this week, whether it be golf, hanging out in the backyard, grilling, pool, beach, boat, wherever it may be. You need the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. Grab a Dew, tasting great since '48. Okay, here he is, Zach Top. Okay, we now welcome on a very, very special guest in studio. It is country singer phenom.

Can I say you're a phenom? I don't know, if you feel like it. Already arrived? I, I mean, ish, maybe. Star? Sure, we can go with that.

Yeah, it's Zach Top. He's, uh, he's got— what your current tour is, is Cold Beer and Country Music?

Yeah, that's the only tour I've had. I figure when I find a better name for a tour, I will name it that, but so far That's the best I've come up with.

I'm sticking with that. How long has the tour been going on for?

We started it beginning of '25.

Okay, so you're going to just keep it being the Cold Beer and Country Music Tour forever? Yeah. I love this. This is like the beer. Just a little flame.

Yeah. Beer keeps getting colder and the music keeps getting country.

That's awesome, man. So, and you won a Grammy? Yes. Congratulations. Oh, so you're a star. Phenom.

Phenom and star. Phenom slash star works.

How was that surreal winning a Grammy?

Miami? Yeah, it was crazy, man. It's funny, uh, the country portion of the show— obviously the main broadcast of it is all the pop stuff because that's the stuff that the general population knows. Um, and us hillbillies from Nashville, uh, get— they have this pre-telecast thing and we all sit in an auditorium and there's no organization about it. Uh, they just let me wander in there and I sat down somewhere in the back, was just watching, and then they started calling the awards. I was up for 3 of them, called the first 2, didn't win them, and I was like, ah, too bad. And then the last one, they said the title of my record ain't in it for my health. And I was like looking around waiting for somebody to get up. Oh shit, that's mine actually. And I hop up, start walking down, and they got this like walk-on music band on stage and stuff. And so they're playing this song and I'm all the way in the back of this auditorium just walking down, and then I like they're starting to fade out the walk-up music, and I— oh shit, I'm gonna miss it.

And so I start jogging down there, and then I jog for like 100 yards, and I'm like, shit, I look like an idiot right now. I know there's cameras going, I gotta walk. And so then I'm like fast walking. By the time I get down to the stage, I'm out of breath, I'm out of shape, and whatever. So I get up there, and I don't think I said anything that made sense, but it's just— it's a funny— they just rattle off awards so quick for all the like not pop music stuff that nobody knows.

Yeah, it was, uh, it It was Best Traditional Country? Yes, sir. That's great. That's a cool award to get.

Yeah, it was fun. It's the first year they've done it. They just started it. Um, so yeah, little piece of history to go along with it. I'm very proud of it. Who did you beat? Who'd you beat for that award? It's pretty sacrilegious. I beat Willie Nelson.

Oh, for Best Traditional Country? Yeah.

Doesn't that feel wrong? Yeah, it feels really wrong.

Kind of fucked up, actually.

Exactly. Exactly. Willie smoked a little too too much grass this year. Yeah, exactly. Give that award to him.

Yeah. So, so your, your start was, was it on TikTok? Like, yeah. So explain that. That's awesome.

Against my— I hate it. It's so— no, but that's so cool. Fuck that. No, well, no, it's just like, I've never been a fan of the social media stuff. It's just a necessary evil if you're an independent artist. It's the most powerful promotion tool that you have, obviously. Um, so yeah, it was like— well, it started on Facebook. I was late to everything. I started posting Facebook videos like 2017 or something. Okay. First one blew up in 2018. It's just you playing and singing, just sitting there? Yeah, playing some old songs that I liked. Yeah. Um, yeah, blew up one on Facebook, so then got a little bit of a following on Facebook. Rode that, rode the, the grandmas on Facebook for a couple years, and then, uh, got convinced to make an Instagram in like 2020 or something. And, uh, I think I had it before then, but I like— I don't know, I was just late to everything. Didn't start posting much on there till later. My lottery ball machine, the lottery It's too early, isn't it? Pick a number. Yeah, yeah, come on. Uh, give me, uh, 35.

If you get this—

yeah, uh, this could be all time. I'll go 21.

This would be all time. What's a—

do you guys— I, I used to listen to this show religiously.

Oh, thanks for telling us that you hate us now.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, 52. Close. Um, I, I feel like it always used to be be my like driving road trip thing, cuz I used to spend a lot of time on the road and now I just get driven around everywhere. So I don't like— I don't ever spend time on the road.

Just tell, tell the people who drive you around like put—

well, I know I should put it on. I'm always just like watching something on the TV on the bus or something, but I need to— yeah, I need to put this on. But I haven't listened in a while. Are there any, uh, lottery ball like sticks going right now? Is— has Hank gotten it recently?

Oh yeah, we got it on Friday. Oh, at it, boy! I haven't gotten it.

Memes hasn't got Got it. Okay. Memes is very upset.

Memes got mad at Zach. So do you know who Zach is? Yes. Yes, I do. All right. All right. Yeah. So is that— yeah, there's been a little bit of tension with the lottery ball machine. Okay. Yeah, this is our new one. We upgraded and I didn't— yeah, that's been a little bit ago now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it, it sounds like a lawnmower when it, when it just pops up. All right. So, so back to your start. This is very cool. So you're— you basically— how do you get found? Like, how How does, how does it go from, hey, I'm getting a little popular, yeah, on social media, to, oh shit, this is now a real thing that's gonna maybe happen for me?

Yeah, it, it was like right as I, I was posting for a few years, I guess, and then in, uh, spring of '21, I think it was March of 2021, I finally moved, uh, full-time to Nashville. I was living in Colorado before that, working construction, from Washington originally. Anyway, moved to Nashville, spring of '21. And like 3 weeks after that, had some video of a— I think it was a Tracy Lawrence song or something— blew up on TikTok. And the— my publisher, uh, now somebody that worked for them, um, found me off that video and asked me to come have a meeting. So I went and had a meeting, you know. Of course, it was COVID times and whatnot, so we showed up at the back of their, their office there on Music Row. Go and all sat in a circle and chairs in the parking lot, and I sat around and played a few songs and stuff, stuff that I've been writing. And, uh, so they basically offered me a deal on the spot.

So that's incredible.

Yeah, started, you know, just writing, um, full-time. And then, yeah, I'd play little shows here and there and whatnot. And then it was still just, yeah, grinding it out on TikTok pretty much. And yeah, and then it kind of turned into, I guess, in 2022 22, um, we released, uh, my first single was Cold Beer and Country Music. Um, and then that all— shoot, what was it? Yeah, released a few songs that fall, spent all of '23 just releasing stuff. And '23 was the first time I got like kind of full-time on the road, um, that fall. And then spring of '24, put out my first record, which is Cold Beer and Country Music. You know, I just can't get away from it. Um, but, uh, yeah. Yeah, um, and then yeah, it's just been— I don't know, we were on the Lainey Wilson tour, um, for most of 2024. And then last year we, uh, did my first headlining tour, did a bunch of clubs, um, in the, uh, yeah, in the spring of '25, I guess. And I DM'd you, um, when we played— what did we play? Rosemont? Uh, what is it?

Uh, Joe's— Joe's—

Joe's Unwheated Rosemont. Yeah, yeah, yeah, two of them.

Yeah, played there. I hollered at you. I wanted you to come to the show. Um, never got a reply.

Wait, wait, wait, where was it? On Instagram? Yeah. I don't look at my Instagram DMs.

No, I don't either.

So, okay, no, I'm just messing. No, no, I, I, I, I literally, I, I like purposely don't look at them because I just assume every time I look at them it's gonna be a bunch of people being like, fuck you, dude.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt.

Hate you. Like, why? I'm sure this— yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, so it's just like, I'm not, I'm not putting myself through that.

Not at all. Okay, I'm just messing with you. Um, but yeah, and then we were on tour with Dierks Bentley last summer and then did our first arena tour last fall, and then we're out on an arena tour now. That's awesome.

It's very cool. And I've been listening to your stuff, and what I like about it— I'm a big fan of '90s country music. Yeah, like late '80s. Yeah, early to mid-'90s country music. To me, that's when I really love the genre. And it sounds like you're making like a concerted effort. That's like— I can tell that you love that type of music too. Yeah, when I listen to your songs, it's nice to to hear. Can you explain to us like the evolution of country music since say 1990? And because we are seeing like a little of a, uh, the pendulum swinging back. Yeah. To that type of genre. But for a while it was like more pop country. How did you decide like this is the sound that I want to get?

Well, it wasn't a decision or a like a calculated thing. That's just what comes out of me. You're exactly right. I like— that's what I grew up on That's kind of part of the stuff that made me fall in love with country music. But I mean, even more than that, it was, it was older stuff, like all the way back to in the '50s and '60s. I remember I was probably 10 years old or something, and my parents gave me a box set of George Jones stuff from all the, um, probably no one will know anyway. George Jones, one of the greatest country singers ever, um, but you know, he started back in the late '50s, I think. Um, anyway, so I was like learning all that stuff before I I was paying much attention to any Alan Jackson or, uh, George Strait was the first thing when I was really little. He was my parents' favorite, so I heard a ton of his stuff. Um, and Amarillo by Morning was the first song I asked to learn how to play on guitar. And anyway, um, but yeah, it's— it was not a calculated decision at all.

It's just kind of what ends up coming out of me when I write and play and sing, for better or for worse. But you're exactly right, it's It's— I mean, I think country has always been that way, and maybe most genres are, um, but country feels like it's always been cyclical. Like back in the, I don't know, the '70s and '80s, people were complaining that Kenny Rogers was ruining country music, and then it took George Jones or George Strait and Randy Travis coming along and they were saving country music, you know, all the way back then. And now Kenny Rogers seems like pretty traditional country music, right? Um, but, uh, I don't know, it feels like it always does that. It's, it's kind of like we've— country music finds like some new wacky edgy sound, chase that for a little while, and then people eventually feel like, ah yeah, but let's get back to what we know and love and like where this all came from. And I feel like that's, yeah, kind of where we are right now. I mean, since probably, yeah, 2010 was kind of where like Florida Georgia Line was the first big like they blew the doors open, um, with that sound.

And it was a new fresh thing, you know, between them and Luke Bryan. And, um, obviously Morgan Wallen is kind of, uh, the peak of his powers now. Um, maybe, maybe he's not at the peak yet, we'll see. Um, but, you know, I feel like we've been rolling on that for 15 years. And yeah, now people are kind of, all right, let's, you know, kind of get back to— come back home. Yeah, come back home.

Yeah. But yeah, I feel like, uh, like back in the late '80s, more so like mid-'90s. Garth Brooks was like the Morgan Wallen back then. Oh, big time. You had the traditional country music fans that were like, I don't know about all that, and then it comes back and it's— yeah, it's a fascinating way to look at like a genre evolving and then being traditional, then evolving from that. And so you get all these different branches of country music. What's the difference between country and western?

I've always wondered that. Western is kind of like the Texas swing thing, um, old Bob Wills stuff. Um, I'm trying to think how to describe— it's really, really heavy fiddle music, and it's like that— it's almost like more, um, jazz-influenced, I think. Um, as far as, you know, like, I grew up in a, uh, bluegrass background. That's what I grew up playing. And, um, can you play the banjo? I tried.

I love bluegrass.

Yeah, not good. Yeah, it's, it's awesome. It's so much fun. And we still have like, uh, in our shows we do a little, uh, section in the middle of it where we bring out an old, uh, old-fashioned looking condenser mic and we all gather around. They— everybody comes down from their amps and their drums and plugged in stuff. We all grab, um, an acoustic instrument and, uh, and play a few songs there in the middle of the set, uh, to kind of, yeah, pay homage to, yeah, my roots or whatever. Um, but yeah, Western is the, the Western swing in when people talk about country and western.

The music that sounds like a train a little bit-ish.

Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's almost like it's country's version of big band music. Okay, that makes sense.

And what would you say, what would be the, the Mount Rushmore of country music songs?

Mount Rushmore country music songs? Stone Mountain, Georgia of country music songs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

That's— yeah, we are in Mount Rushmore season, aren't we? We are.

Well, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, kind of.

We're in the thick of it.

Yeah, I'm just sorry. Yeah. Um, the Mount Rushmore of country music songs. It's hard to— I mean, I think you already said one actually. What did I say?

Amarillo by Morning.

Yeah, that's a— I mean, yeah, my Mount Rushmore, I'll go Amarillo by Morning, and then I would probably go, um, If Drinking Don't Kill Me, George Jones. Her Memory Will. And then I would go Between an Old Memory and Me, Keith Whitley. And then I would go— it's got to be a Merle Haggard song in there. Let's go with Today I Started Loving You Again. That sounds like good Mount Rushmore. Yeah, yeah, I don't know any of those.

No, I know the Merle Haggard. Okay.

Fair enough. I thought you were going to go Mama Tried, but that's like—

yeah, I think that's kind of like a square pick for me.

This is your personal Mount Rushmore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're going to go just like the people's Mount Rushmore, it's going to be stuff like Friends in Low Places and, you know, like the big bar anthems. Yeah, yeah.

What, uh, so, so you, you sung the anthem for the NFC Championship Game this year. Were you nervous for that? Yeah, dude, that's the— what were you more nervous for, the game or, or singing the Anthem, because you're singing, you're a big Seahawks-Mariners fan. Yeah, yeah.

Um, dude, that was crazy. That's the first time I've been to a Seahawks game actually in person. We grew up, went to a bunch of Mariners games and stuff, but I'd never been, uh, actually to the stadium to see a game live, uh, for the Seahawks. So that was awesome. I was pumped about that. We got to be— we were pretty close down, we were like 5 rows back from the field or something. Sick. It was, yeah, so much fun right there by the 50-yard line. Um, but yeah, doing the Anthem is is, I think, the most nerve-wracking thing I gotta do now, because it's— most the time, for one thing, I always feel like by the third or fourth song of my set, I'm like, all right, now I'm settled in. Yeah. And it's like the first few songs, it's not like they go badly or something, but I'm like all high on adrenaline and stuff, and it's like takes me a second to settle in. It feels like the Anthem, for one thing, you got no band with you— I mean, I did it, you know, I could have played guitar on it, I guess, but I just sang it acapella.

It just feels like you're naked up there and there is nothing to cover you up. Yep. It's like, it feels like it's fine until they finally say, and now to do the anthem, right? Oh shit. And you can't fuck it up. Yeah, then you end up on one of those YouTube compilations of worst anthems ever. Um, yeah, I'm so paranoid about forgetting words. I fucked it up once.

Really? Yeah. And, uh, uh, it was actually like a World War II vet, which there are not a lot of those left. But it was, it was about 10 years ago when Dave and I did the anthem at a Windy City Thunderbolts game. Oh yeah. And he came up and was like, I served in the Navy in World War II. You, you, you're just crazy. It was like, uh, through air for— I can't remember. He was like, one word I screwed up. Yeah. Pointed out. I was like, God fucking damn it. Yeah.

Wrong guy to screw that up in front of. God. Yeah. That would— I mean, you're just going to get crucified for that if you mess up the words. So I have not done it yet. I've done a few 2 different sports games doing the anthem. Yeah, but that was, that was definitely the biggest and an awesome football game after that. Oh God, it was so fun. Yeah, it was incredible.

So in like the Seattle area, like, is it, is it country when you get out of Seattle? Like, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And I grew up kind of like, I'm, I'm from a town called Sunnyside. It's kind of down on the east side of the state out there. It's just nothing but, uh, rural. We got no, no big cities over there. The closest one, I guess, is, um, Spokane, um, but that'd be up, I don't know, 2 and a half hours from there. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's just nothing but farmland. Uh, yeah, grew up on a farm, and my dad has always been in the cow business and ran a sale barn and stuff.

So I also saw that you went to, and you mentioned that you went to University of Colorado Boulder for engineering and then dropped out after a year. Yeah. So you just like, I didn't even know they offered engineering at Colorado, you just were like, the weed is too good, why would I do this? Because I— yeah, like, pretty much, I can't imagine it being like— being an engineer or like partying in Boulder, Colorado, like, that's a no-brainer. You take Boulder, Colorado.

It's— I feel like I missed out on a lot of fun at Colorado. Um, this may come as a surprise, but I was quite a, uh, I was quite a nerd back in the day. Really? Homeschooled schooled growing up. No way. Yeah, it was very academic. Like, I was, I was, uh, I did a couple years of community college first, came in, did a year, uh, at Boulder, and had only one year to finish my engineering degree. Um, and then decided I never wanted to do that again, I guess. And I just wanted to play and sing, which was always the goal. But it was like, that was when, you know, social media was starting to be a thing. And so it felt like I had way to get the music out or whatever. Um, but yeah, I did almost no partying. Um, I had a few— I found the other 3, uh, rednecks that were going to Boulder. I never know— I don't know why I didn't go to CSU. I probably would have fit in a lot better there.

A little more the speed.

Yeah, exactly. But the— yeah, I found the other 3, um, that were going to Boulder, and we ended up living together. So I mean, we would just hang out at our house and drink beer on the roof and get noise complaints.

It's an awesome city. Oh, awesome. So much fun city. All right. So wait, you were homeschooled. Do you have siblings? Was it? Yep.

Yep. So how many? Your brother, two older sisters.

Okay. Now don't take offense to this question. Every kid ever. Yeah. Has that moment when they're in like first or second grade where they get a crush on their teacher. Yeah.

So what happened? I guess I never had that.

Are you sure? It's okay. This is safe.

I would have to think back. Exactly. We've all had—

yeah, we're like, oh, the teacher, like, I kind of like her.

I'm trying to— yeah, I'm trying to think if I had another, um, there was definitely, uh, I probably would have got it from like my friend's older sisters at church.

Okay, okay, that, that makes sense. Also, it probably made it a little easier.

They played the piano up there and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, it makes it easier because every kid— like, you, you probably don't realize this because you didn't go to regular school, But every kid has a moment where they accidentally call their teacher mom. Oh yeah, super embarrassed by it. Yeah, you had no problem.

I can get away with either one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, you run into your teacher in the grocery store and you're like, what's going on? Yeah, like, I— there's no chance that you actually shop here. Yeah, I thought you lived at the store.

My teacher was in there grabbing my ear and dragging me around through the house.

So, so your dad raised cattle? Mm-hmm. So were you a cowboy?

No, I've had this discussion many times. I would never call myself a cowboy. I have done some cowboyish things, got to grow up around it a lot, but I've seen enough real ones to know that I'm not a real one.

I am a cowboy thing to say though. I don't know, like, no, I would never say that.

I have too much respect for cowboys. Yeah, maybe. I don't— yes, I definitely have a lot of respect for them and know that I am bad at what they do. I do, but I do like to do it for recreation. It's one of the most fun things.

It seems like a very tough job too.

Yeah, for sure.

I think a lot of people don't realize that they're actually cowboys that are responsible for—

oh, for sure. Yeah, we all have like such a romantic, uh, romanticized kind of picture of what it is. It's just, you know, riding along some ridgeline in the sunset and then making a campfire and sleeping on your saddle. Um, but yeah, no, it's, it's definitely, uh, it's hard work. And, and yeah, like, guys, those guys got to be, uh, so knowledgeable. Uh, it always strikes me, like, when I go back every year to, uh, in the spring we'll brand the calves. Um, and I love going back for that, go back, help them gather. So, you know, we got, I don't know what, 5,000 acres of pasture that we're gathering 350 pairs out of. Um, so there's a lot of ground to cover on horseback, and we're bringing them in, and then like these guys will just— they'll see some calf like 300 yards away, it's like, ah, that thing's sick, we got to go doctor it. And it's like, what are you talking about, it looks normal. And sure enough, wander over there, catch the calf, and it's, yeah, got a runny nose, or, you know, butt's all shitty, or whatever. And yeah, it's just like the amount of stuff that they know how to do and can and just see and then know how to fix it too.

It's pretty, it's pretty wild.

So did you want to be a cowboy when you're growing up, or did you want to be a country music singer?

Well, I think that's what, like, that's what originally got me into country music was like, we got to do a bunch of cowboy stuff. We'd go gather cows, we'd go to brandings, we, you know, took care of animals. Um, and so the first stuff that I loved was cowboy songs. I mean, like Amarillo by Morning, it's a rodeo song. Loved a bunch of old Marty Robbins stuff. He had a record called Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs. It's basically just Old West ballads, and that was— I just loved cowboy songs. And I think that eventually morphed into— well, I think I realized pretty early on I was no good at being a cowboy. Maybe the closest I could get was to sing about them.

You have a welcome to the league moment when you're trying to be a cowboy, get kicked in the face. All right, yeah, I'll go pick up the guitar.

Yeah, I'll go sing about you guys from now on. Yeah.

What's the, uh, when you're writing new songs, is it like, uh, like a fire hose where it's just like when you're in that mode it's just coming to you, or is it a slow process where over time you pick up a little something here, oh, this might be good here? Because I'm always just, I'm always just amazed by musicians who are able to write songs and write so many songs. Yeah. How does that— I couldn't think of one song.

How do you do that? Yeah, it's, it's kind of funny. I feel like the process has evolved for me because for like, well, I started coming to Nashville in 2018, fall of 2018, and then moved there full-time in '21, and then actually got on the road in '23. So 2018 to '23, like 5 years, all I did was write. I wasn't playing many shows, did a few, but for the most part it's just stacking up songs. Um, and then in '23 got busy on the road, and then we put the first record out in '24. 24, basically all of '24 and '25, I think I wrote maybe a total of 2 songs, um, just because we were so busy on the road. And it— you're exactly right, it feels like a different, uh, mode. Like when you get in writing mode, then stuff starts to come easier. Um, but for those 2 years, it was just non-stop on the road playing shows, and I didn't really think that much about it. I definitely have ideas on the road, like I'll get a little snippet of something and You know, I got a million voice memos in my phone.

So yeah, always trying to like, if something might be something, write it down or make a voice recording of it, whatever. And then so like the beginning of this year, January and February, we spent a bunch of time writing and it was fun. We did a couple retreats, went up to the mountains in Idaho, spent a week there. Yeah, down to Key West, spent a week there.

Um, inspiration from different places. Yeah, and you just like—

it's fun to, when you have nothing to do but write, we just get a cool house and, uh, me and my producer, and then we'd take, uh, we had 3, 4 different writers out with us. 3, I guess. Um, so yeah, and then just all you have to do is just sit around all day and drink some beers and look at the ocean and write songs.. And it's, yeah, it's pretty awesome. It kind of, yeah, it feels like it unlocks you a little bit, right? Uh, and it's fun to, you know, we'll write in Nashville too, but that's more like you kind of treat that like a job, right? We're starting the ride at 11 and usually it's like wrapping up by 3 or 4, and then it's, you know, got to go get groceries or got to go. It's kind of, you're still trying to unlock and be creative while you're in the middle of just like running errands and having a normal day. Um, doing a big trip like that where you just have nothing to do—

yeah, be creative—

is— it feels like it's— I don't know, I enjoyed it. It was my first time doing it. I feel like we wrote some of the best songs that we've written. And, um, yeah, excited to eventually put those out.

All right, I got a dumb question for you. Is there— when you're looking at like your Spotify data— yep— and, uh, is it like summertime is just a big peak for country music. Yeah, there is definitely like a certain thing. Like, I always— like, I love Radiohead. Yeah, I will never listen to Radiohead on a sunny day. No, sure. You know what I mean? Like, I just can't do that.

Yeah. Yeah. I think— I mean, you definitely see it with specific songs in my catalog. We haven't paid attention if it really fluctuates a bunch.

It'd be funny if it was like from like winter to summer.

Yeah, it would make sense.

Like day to day of like 'Oh, today's like a really sunny day.' Yeah, yeah, in the South. 'Oh, today there's, there's tornadoes.' Or, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And no one's listening.

It'd be good to watch. Yeah, yeah, I definitely— yeah, we've got a bunch of goofy summer songs that, uh, yeah, as soon as May hit, all of a sudden they like— people forgot about them all winter long.

Yeah, right.

They start coming back, right?

Spring break, you can tell.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, they start wearing out Good Times and Tan Lines.

Yeah, it's actually a genius move for you to you to name a tour Cold Beer and Country Music, because I would imagine that everybody that goes to see your show, like, they are fans of cold beer and country music. Duh. So they're not going to say, hey, you like cold beer and country music? They're not going to be like, no, no, I hate it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because they're afraid maybe someone's going to misunderstand if they overhear.

Yeah, exactly.

I love it. Hey, hell, you know me.

You know me. Yeah.

It's interesting, like, the songwriting process. You go out, you have, you know, these experiences. You get out of the office, so to speak, a little bit, and you come back with songs that you think are gonna be great. Yeah. And then you record them. Can you— after you record these, these songs that you, you know, you love playing, you love singing, do you listen to them again after you lay them down?

Yeah, I mean, especially like in the process of mixing them, like right after we record them, we'll spend a while, you know, just getting them basically just to sound just— and I don't know what I'm talking about, but I just say dumb stuff. And then my engineer, Matt Rovey— shout out Matt Rovey— um, he figures out what I'm wanting to hear, and he knows the knobs to turn and the faders to push to, you know, make it sound like I want it to sound. So we spent a bunch of time listening in that process. Once they're like— once we actually release them. I don't feel like I listen to them anymore. But before then, like, I've got a bunch of stuff stacked up right now that's, uh, that we haven't released yet. And I like, every now and then I'll just listen through those because I love them. And, um, you know, trying to figure out what the— what's going to be included on the next record and all this kind of thing. Um, so yeah, I'll listen to them a good bit up until they're released. Then they become the people's. Yes, then they're the people's.

They are no longer mine.

Has there been a song that, that you wrote that you, you were surprised became such a big hit? Like when you're like, okay, it's good, but you know, might not be the best thing I've ever done, and everybody's like, holy shit, this is amazing.

Not that I didn't think it was great, but I mean, I Never Lie is my biggest song, and I loved the song and thought it was phenomenal. I— no one picked it to be like the big hit off the first record. I had a handful picked out that I was like, these sound like hits, these feel like, you know, a commercial hit that people will latch on to. And that one, I don't know, I thought that one was going to be like, this is my favorite off the album, people aren't going to pay that much attention to it. But it's been— there's been a couple like that. That one, and then, uh, Use Me is another song. It's just a, like, a slow— it's a cheating song, it's a waltz, it's just like nothing about it is fashionable and And, uh, and that one, people latched on to that like crazy too. Um, once again, thought it was a great song. I loved it, but it was like, ah, this would be my little sleeper album track that I love the most, but nobody will pay attention to.

Yeah, very cool. How sick is it that Cal Raleigh walks up to your song?

Oh, it's the best.

We love the Big Dumper. He's, he's been on a couple times. He's the man.

Heck yeah, he's so much fun. We— that's been a crazy— it's funny, like, now that I've got a little bit of notoriety The, the entertainment world and the sports world obviously cross-collateralizes plenty, um, and that's still— athletes are still like superheroes to me. Yeah, it's wild that guys like that know my music or give a shit about it, right? Um, that's one of the most fun things, um, and yeah, found out he was walking up to the song and then got to go out there and do a first pitch last summer, I guess. How'd it go? It was not bad. It was up and away. Off the rubber? Yeah, I was on the rubber for sure. And I was planning on like trying to lean in, put some heat on it. Yeah. In case there were scouts watching. And then I got up there, I wore boots out there, which duh, that's a dumb idea. So I got up there and I went in the windup and whatnot not. And then like my foot slipped the second I picked my other foot up, uh, and slipped on that gravel. And I was like, ah, I can't slip and fall.

And yeah, once again, that's one that like if you do a forgettable first pitch, that's probably pretty good. Yep. People only remember the horrible ones.

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, I'm looking at this right now, it's not bad. It's not bad. It's not a bad first pitch.

It looks like I have thrown a baseball before.

If that's all that matters. Yeah, if you're a lefty, it might apply funk you.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, it would be some chin music for sure.

Yeah, I love that. But no, I mean, Cal Raleigh is so much fun to watch.

This Mariners team, nicest dude ever, and the best.

Yeah, last year was such a heartbreaking postseason for you guys.

Oh my God, dude, we were so close, but we were right in the middle of our tour, um, while that was going on. When in the— I remember specifically the— when they were playing Detroit, uh, what was the game? It went to like 18 innings or something, not that far. Maybe 13 or 14 or 15 or something. Yeah, it went forever. Anyway, I got off stage. We'll usually come out and do an encore. Um, and, uh, anyway, we finished the last song of the regular set. Good night. And I like, as I'm walking off, I'm taking my ears off and handing off my guitar like, no encore, I'm going to watch the game. So we skipped the encore, I think, 3 nights in a row, uh, so I could go finish watching the Mariners game. Um, but it It was so much fun. I remember specifically that whatever that game that went to way extra innings, we were sitting up there, we got a bunch of people on our crew that smoke cigarettes. And so anyway, usually we'll stand around after the show and smoke cigarettes and drink beers outside and stuff. And anyway, we were stuck watching this game.

We ended up, I was like, how much will they fine me if we just smoke in here? And they're like, ah, we'll see, people have done it before, probably nothing. And so we ended up sitting around in the— we had it so smoky in there watching that baseball game. And I'm just like amped up sitting there on the edge of my seat, obviously just chain-smoking cigarettes watching this. It felt like we were like back in the '80s or something. Yeah, it's kind of goofy. But man, it was— yeah, that was such a, such a fun season. It's been so long since they've been good. And like, I remember the— when I was real little but like already loved baseball, uh, you know, we had John Olerud and, uh, Ichiro obviously was there, and Raul Ibanez, and, uh, what was it, Brett Boone played second base.

Um, you know, because you're too young to remember the, like, the Griffey— I—

yeah, just right at the end of Griffey, I remember. Right, exactly. That was— I know about all that stuff, but yeah, it was before my time, kind of. But there was still a few of those, like, early 2000s team that were fun and sort of competitive. But then it was just, I mean, nothing forever. Yeah, it was tough.

Yeah. And I mean, you're a Seahawks fan too, I assume, right? So when you sing that national anthem, I would also imagine that like you don't want to screw it up because Sam Darnold's watching you.

Yes.

And like anything bad, that you don't want to throw him off his rhythm.

Exactly. He's exactly— he came over, he gave me a fist bump as I was walking off from it. It's like, all right, I must have not— yeah, I must not screwed it up too bad.

Did you have Super Bowl?

No, I had an invite too, dude. It was right in the middle of like— I was bouncing. It felt like I was going back and forth from either side of the country so many times in like the span of a week, and it was gonna have to be like a fly to Nashville that morning, fly out after the game because I got to be somewhere. And I was just like, yeah, I ended up passing on it, which is probably the stupidest thing in the world. Who knows? Yeah, it be forever, you know, till the Seahawks go back to one, let alone win one. Um, so yeah, I don't know. At the time it seemed like the wise decision to, uh, to maintain my health and my sanity. But also, you know, butterfly effect.

Who knows, if you were at the game, yeah, it might have gone different.

It might have gone different. Yeah.

Um, uh, Hank, or Hank, do you have any questions?

Yeah, you talked in the beginning here about a bluegrass, you know, upbringing Yeah, you did the, uh, the collab album with Billy Strings. Do you have bluegrass music coming? Do you have more music with Billy coming?

Oh, um, nothing on the books right now with Billy, uh, but we've both talked about, uh, we'd like to do some more. I mean, that was so fun, and that's such an— I don't know, natural— I don't do collaborations very much, but that one is such a fun, I don't know, natural thing. I mean, when we spend any time together, we just sit around and play old songs that we both grew up on. So it is kind of— I would imagine at some point we'll do, do something again. And we want to start doing, uh, some shows together too. It's fun to like, I don't know, have— obviously I come from that background, but the music that I'm putting out right now sounds a lot different than that.

Um, do you want to switch, switch over, like do some, do some bluegrass stuff? Oh, I will at some point.

Yeah, put out, put out some more because I've got one bluegrass record out. Um, but yeah, I'd like to do some more of that stuff. And then I like— I feel like as I keep making these country records too, they become more and more, uh, acoustic-driven and kind of like lean toward that. They're still very much country music but kind of lean more into the bluegrass influence than, you know, stray away from it, I guess. But yeah, Billy's the freaking man. He's so fun to, uh, be around. And it's funny, his guitar is like like an emotional support thing for him. He just like— you sit there talking to him, he never has it not in his hands. You just be sitting there talking to him, you get distracted because he's just like sitting there listening to what you're saying and just playing the craziest shit, uh, right in front of you while he's not even paying attention to what he's doing. It's just like, damn, can hardly hold a conversation with him, but he's so fun. Yeah.

Um, all right, uh, We got one last question. This has been awesome. Thank you for coming in, Zach. Absolutely.

Thank you, guys.

Everyone get out there, and, and your, your tour is going all the way through the fall, right?

Yeah, through the end of October. Come see us somewhere.

We playing in a tornado tonight?

We're not playing tonight. Uh, tomorrow night, hopefully the tornadoes will be gone.

They're going to be gone. Here's hoping. Um, uh, Rowback question. Rho.com promo code TAKE, 20% off your first purchase. Q-zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Rowback.com promo code TAKE. Let's do a little Zach on Zach.

Oh, come on.

How we doing today, sir?

Just wonderful.

How are you? Doing well, man. I thank you for your time today. Absolutely. I had a couple questions. I was cool with you. Absolutely. I was, uh, wondering, uh, kind of going from the construction site to Nashville and then, uh, into building that relationship with Mr. Chamberlain, I was— is there a moment you can recall that like, oh, this is really about to take off, like we could do this full-time? And like, yeah, that's a good question.

There's— I mean, there's— I feel like a handful of moments I could pick out. The first one for sure Um, was when I, in spring of 2018, I put out a video, uh, song called Spilled Whiskey. A guy named Darryl Singletary, great, great singer, he died, um, pretty early, um, or pretty young I should say. Uh, but yeah, he died spring of 2018 and I posted that video of his song and that was the first thing that kind of blew up for me. And, uh, Carson ended up finding me off of that video and we got in touch um, I don't know, it was probably March or something of 2018. And knowing what his resume was, um, as a producer and a songwriter, you know, a ton of hit songs, ton of hit records, um, and then yeah, the guys that he had worked for were all stuff that I was like a huge fan of. That was the first time that it felt like— like, all growing up, all I wanted to do was be a singer and and, uh, just sing and play guitar and didn't have any clue. Like, my parents didn't have any clue about the music business.

I didn't even know anybody that knew anything about the music business. So it just felt like this, you know, far-off dream, pipe dream really. Um, and so my plan was I was going to college to be an engineer, and, uh, I'd get to just play for fun on the weekends if I had a good job that, you know, I could afford to do that. So that 2018, when I got hooked up with Carson, that was the first time that I was like, oh shit, if this guy thinks I'm good, I might actually have a shot at doing this. And then yeah, moving to— moving to Nashville, you know, that's kind of a scary thing. That's a long way from home, and it was kind of— I didn't have anything lined up out there other than Carson, um, so that felt good, but it wasn't like I didn't have a publishing deal, didn't have a record deal. Um, when, when I got that publishing deal and started making a check for writing songs, that was like, oh wow, there's more people that think I have something here. Um, and I think the other one, um, I remember the first time that we— I played a show.

I'm gonna— I don't know what the timeline exactly was, but it was sometime in, uh, the fall of 2023 into the spring of '24 I started being actually, actually able to sell some tickets. Um, you know, it used to be you'd get hired and paid a flat rate in a bar, and then all you're going to do is play covers because that's what people know. They don't know your songs yet. So I remember a song called Bad Luck of Mine, uh, was kind of the first thing that took off for me., as far as music that I had released. And we started being able to sell out these little like 200, 300-cap places, um, and then they started singing my songs back to me. And that was like the most insane feeling. I remember we played this place in Gainesville, Georgia, uh, the Boot Barn Hall. Never forget it. It was like 800 people. And before we went on, that was like a big reach for us at the time. Like I was saying, we're playing these 200, 300-cap places. And that was like— that felt insane that people were— that many people were coming and singing the songs back to me.

Um, so we played this 800-cap club in Georgia, and they told me the show was sold out before we went on that night. And it was like, I didn't really believe it. And then walked on stage, and sure enough, there they all are. And I remember I remember that night specifically, hearing him sing that song Bad Luck with me was like, holy shit, if I never do anything more, this is like, you know, so much more than I ever thought I would ever do. So it's, yeah, it's crazy. Those would be a few of, I guess that was a long-winded answer to some moments that felt like, oh shit, this is happening.

I love that. I love that for you, man. It's awesome. Dude, I appreciate it.

Good job, Zach. Good question. Yes, great question. Zach, thanks so much for being here. And yeah, by the way, I found the message. Did you actually— yeah, you were at Joe's on Weed, which is like— I live like a mile away. Really? That sucks that I'm now seeing it, but I did. So it was from July 18th, 2024. There you go. And you said, you know, want to extend the last minute invite if any of you PMT fellows are country music fans and happen to be in town, come on through. True. So I just replied, hey, just seeing this, we're in. So I got you, we're good, we're good now. But, uh, thanks so much, man.

Thank you guys. I said it a little bit, I think, but we— when I was working construction, this was my buddy that I was working with, Trevor. Shout out Trevor in Colorado. Uh, he introduced me to the show and it became, uh, yeah, a religion for me forever. Like I said, I haven't listened quite as much in the last like year, I guess, but up until then it was just nonstop. I love that.

That's great. What does Trevor do on the site?

Um, now he's big project manager guy.

Um, is there a chance Trevor's listening to this right now?

There is a chance, yes. I'll tell him if he's, uh, yeah, I don't know when it's airing, but I'll, uh, I'll tell him he better be listening. Yeah, yeah. As a project—

yeah, as a manager, he's probably doing a lot of leaning, probably holding a lot of clipboards, sitting in the truck, roll the window down every now around then and just look.

Yeah. And then roll it back out.

He's got time to listen now. Oh yeah, for sure. He put— he paid his dues.

Yeah. Yes indeed. Uh, all right, thanks so much, Zach. Appreciate it.

Thank you guys, enjoyed it.

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Work. All right, let's finish up the show. A numbers. 77.

Go with 10. I'll go with 8.

Go 14. 95. 31. 9. 69. 9.

9's a good, good number.

9's a good number. That's a good number. You hate 9. Don't Tell him who he hates. Anyone? 84. 84. 84. Okay, that's the show. Only one.

Only one. Love you guys.

No birthdays. I'm gonna do birthdays later.

Oh!