Transcript of The Haunting of Lemp Mansion

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash!

And I'm Alayna!

And this right here is Morbid!

This is morbid.

What the fuck is up, Kyle?

We're back to spookies!

It's spookas season.

It is spookas season. Um, and I— we're glad you're all loving the, the last episode we did.

It was some of the most fun we've ever had.

It truly was, and I'm glad it's coming across that way.

I know.

It was unhinged. I loved it. In the best way.

That was such a whirlwind of a day because we traveled to New York to record that.

Yeah.

Like back and forth in one day, and it was one of the coolest days I've ever lived.

It really was.

Yeah.

I loved it.

It was great.

Uh, he's— we're gonna make him come back.

Yeah.

I think he was okay with coming back.

I think he wants to come back to do like something like true crime or like weird history with us.

Yeah, he wants to do like a spooky thing.

I think we should totally do that.

So we'll, we'll do that.

See you then.

See you then, Matthew. That was lovely. Thanks for coming.

We shall meet in New York once again.

It really was. It was the most fun we've had, I think, in a long time.

That's like one of my favorite episodes we've ever produced.

Yeah, I think. And it was nice to see that people who are not drawn to guest episodes.

Actually enjoyed it.

A lot of people said it's their favorite episode.

Yeah.

And they don't usually watch guest episodes. So maybe it'll entice you to watch a couple of other ones.

Yeah, give them a chance. We honestly, we have a lot of fucking fun with our guests.

We do.

I know guest podcasts can be tough. Yeah, like we get it. Like sometimes you're not always familiar with the person or maybe you're like just not a fan of them. But yeah, I've listened to other podcasts in the past where I've just like given it a chance and I've become a fan of someone who I previously didn't really know about. Yeah.

You know, it can be done right. Yeah. And we'll get Matthew as— we'll make him a regular.

Hell yeah.

We'll force it.

We have to.

If we have to.

Yeah.

But it seems like he was down too.

I think so.

I think this is the beginning of a beautiful relationship. Do you know what is the—

a beautiful— not even a beautiful ending?

Oh.

They're getting rid of Mama Celeste Pizza.

I don't even know if I'm ready to talk about this.

No, I have to talk about it because I might need to go to therapy over it, to be honest. And I'm going to name this man. Who was the CEO who decided to get rid of this? I looked it up earlier.

Are you guys— are you guys fans of Mama Celeste pizzas? The little frozen pizzas? Freezer pizzas?

They're so good.

They're fucking great.

Put them in the microwave for like 4 minutes on that little foil plate. And, uh, John Braze, the CEO of something brands, why did you choose that, sir?

Yeah, no, like, I, I want to know. Call me, because—

Call me.

It's bullshit.

I will personally fund putting them back on shelves. Literally, I'm like— I will make this my life's work.

This is a travesty.

It— I ordered 15 today. Like, I actually got in a fight with my husband because he was like, are you fucking kidding me? We have no room in the freezer for these. And I said, then we'll buy a new freezer. And he said, we're just gonna buy a new freezer? And I said, yeah, Drew, we're gonna buy a new freezer for my Mama Celeste, and that's enough.

Yeah.

We made up and now I have 15 Mama Celeste pizzas and he said he'll get me a freezer for them.

This is serious.

Yeah.

Like, this is so serious.

I'm being so legit right now. I'm being—

Too legit to quit.

So legit. And I, I shan't quit.

No, I'm really upset about it.

Every week I might buy 15 because they're— that was the other thing. Drew goes, Ash, they're discontinuing in 2027. I said, do you know how soon that is? Do you know how soon that is?

That's so close.

And there was a few stores I couldn't even find them at. I had to go to like a random rogue grocery store.

Yeah, I'm saying. They're already selling out. Yeah, I'm not pleased about it.

I rue the day that John decided, that CEO John decided to ruin my life.

CEO John, we're not happy with you.

No.

In fact, one might say we're really angry with you.

Truly though, CEO John, have your people call my people. We can work this out.

I like how we keep having to say CEO John just in case.

Not Elena's John. No, we're not mad about him. She would never make the decision.

She would never. Does he think Elio's is supreme? Yeah.

Do you know him and Drew said that at the same time?

But he understands my love of Celeste.

Drew understands my love of Celeste now. I literally, we were, I was willing to get in a fight about it.

My full allegiance is to Celeste.

Drew was like, I'm not home and you just had 15 pizzas delivered. And I said, well, you better get home then. Yeah.

'Cause they're also, they're super cheap.

Oh my God. You can get a million of them. That's the thing.

It's the beauty of Mama Celeste.

And I'll continue to, oh my God. We gotta have one for lunch. You bought 10, right? What? What?

Alayna was just so pissed about it that she kicked a coffee across the room. I kicked over my coffee. Uh, Matthew Lillard interview was great.

Megyn Kelly's a bitch.

Megyn Kelly's a bitch!

Fuck Megyn Kelly!

Fuck Megyn Kelly!

Fuck Megyn Kelly!

Fuck her!

That's what I— She doesn't even deserve to be a Megyn, she's a—

Yeah, she sucks ass.

Yeah, fuck you.

Fuck Megyn Kelly.

If anybody is following the Cornell case, which you all should be, She just came out and said some—

Honestly, if anyone is alive and breathing, then you know that Megyn Kelly is just a complete piece of shit. Yeah, like, she has the worst takes I have ever seen.

Some of the takes on— obviously her takes are always shit, but these takes, I'm like, can you just stop fucking talking?

Yeah, they're always— she's, she's a rage baiter. She knows how to get people up and— she— I— we're playing right into her fucking hands.

I know, but I have to.

But I had to say it because she just loves pissing people off.

Yeah, fuck her.

Yeah, Fear, I don't, I don't think we're, we're meant to be friends if you are listening to Megyn Kelly.

When I worked at the salon, there was like 3 different locations, and one location in particular, this woman would always tell me that I looked like Megyn Kelly, and I would be like, why do you make me suffer so?

Yeah, and you don't.

I don't look anything like Megyn Kelly.

Not one part of you actually looks like Megyn Kelly.

I was blonde.

Oh, there you go. So it's that whole thing that all blondes look the same.

She was like, oh my God, MAGA Barbie. And I was like, not me, babe.

That ain't me.

Could never be me. I was like, I'm actually a lesbian right now.

I'm actually a lesbian right now. So, thanks.

Thank you. Put that on a shirt. I'm actually a lesbian right now. Oh my God.

Damn.

Not me choking on my own emphysema. I'm so sick right now.

That was one of the things during the interview was we were laughing so hard and we were both coming off of a cold. Well, you were starting your cold, but I think it was just us hacking. That edit must have been—

Hopefully we didn't get Matthew Lillard sick.

Yeah, if you're sick, I'm sorry about it.

Sorry, Matt.

We might have made him sick.

I know, we've been sick for days. Weeks.

For years.

For years. Anyways, what do you got for me today, Big Red?

Oh, we have The Haunting of Lemp Mansion.

Ooh, I think I've heard of this.

Yeah, this is crazy. It's gonna— because it's not just the haunting part, that's at the end. It's what leads up to it, what creates the haunt. That's the real, like— Damn. This family, it seems like there was a little bit of a curse here happening.

Oh, I love a curse. Yeah.

It's not good for them.

I don't want a curse, but I love a curse.

I love learning about a curse.

Yes.

Yes. So we're talking about beer.

Ew.

Just beer.

I don't really like beer.

Beer, bruh. No, thank you. Breweries, which are— it's a really hard word to say.

Brewery is a hard word to say because you have to slur through it. Which might be by design.

I think we just figured that out.

Yeah, that's by design.

Because you can just be like, let's go to the brewery.

Until next brewer.

Let's go to the next brewery. Yeah. So let's begin at the beginning.

Okay. That's a good place.

When Johann Adam Lemp left Germany for the United States in 1838, he had a very simple plan.

1838.

We were thinking 2 different things because you said that.

I did.

And I was thinking he had a simple plan and I was gonna be like, not.

Oh, wait.

Oh my God.

I'd do anything. Thank you. I almost just went Blink-182 with it and I'm remiss.

That's okay. There was a lot of those bands during that time.

There was.

There was. I loved Simple Plan.

Simple Plan was great.

Simple Plan was so fun.

I'm bouncing off the walls again.

No, that's your cult.

Fuck me.

All right.

I'm gonna leave. Jesus Christ.

It's okay.

It's okay.

You weren't cognizant enough in that era.

No, you were just driving me around and I was in the backseat.

You were just listening to the same like, yeah, kind of music like that era. Um, yeah. So we'll forgive you.

Thank you.

Um, but yeah, he had a simple plan, not the band. He just had a legit plan. He was going to bring German beer to the American people.

I think the Americans to this day are quite appreciative.

We thank him for it, I suppose. At first, Lemp found work as a grocer on the south side of St. Louis. St. Louis.

I'll just say St. Louis.

Don't worry. Where he sold his beer. And by 1940, his beer had become so popular that he was able to leave the store behind and focus solely on brewing.

Wow.

Brewerying.

Brewing.

Brewing.

Brewing.

That year, he found, you know, a suitable location to start the brewery, which he named Western Brewing.

Nice.

One of the keys to his success was the cave system that ran under the city.

Oh, that's actually really interesting.

It really is, because it provides a perfect environment to complete the necessary lagering phase of beer.

You know that they actually talked about this on the Housewives of SLC?

I did not know that.

You can go to a cave.

Yeah.

No, they go to like a cave in Missouri, and I— maybe they talk about this story, I can't remember. But it's like good for beer. Yeah.

You do the lagering phase. That's basically allowing it to rest undisturbed in a really cold temperature for long periods of time.

Cool.

And a cave is perfect for that.

Yeah.

So there you go.

I do that in my fridge with my sourdough.

I do that like with my body most of the times. Just go in a cave.

I wasn't sure.

And just rest undisturbed.

I wasn't sure where you were going to go with that, but okay. No, I like it.

It's what I want to do, I should say.

Yeah. Hibernation sounds great.

I don't do that, but I would love to.

Let's give it a try. Just go into a cave.

Like a bear.

Do you know what I actually want to do? I'm, I'm all over the place today, and I'm sorry to interrupt your story like this, but I'd like to go to the salt caves.

Oh yeah.

And lay in the salt.

Lay.

It's supposed to be really good for your body-ody-ody.

All right.

So if you want to go into a cave, we could kill 2 birds with one stone.

Okay.

And together we could go to the, the salt caves.

Awesome. Another quick little detour because it's gonna be— it be like that.

It's a day. It's a day, and we're— I'm not even on cough medicine, but I feel like I am, and I probably should be.

Yeah, we're just You know, uh, one of my children found out that, that saying recently—

Kill two birds with one stone.

And were horrified by it.

It's a pretty shitty saying.

Does not understand how that's— I said it and they were like, that's horrific, why would you ever say that? And I was like, no, it's a saying.

Ma gets really mad if you say that. Have you ever said that to her? She's like, don't say that.

Yeah. And I'm like, I didn't make it up.

Yeah, it's—

I didn't make it up and I don't, I don't even approve of it really. It just sometimes fits the situation because it's like I have a whole murder of crow bros that like I'm very serious about.

Drew is coming for your neck.

What?

Drew is coming for your neck.

Is he getting crow bros?

He's getting crow bros. He gets ours at night for some reason, which is strange, but he put out peanuts for them.

Yeah, that's what I'm giving them next.

Yeah, well, you're in a competition, so.

Make sure they're unsalted.

I'll tell him.

Yeah, don't give them salted.

I'll tell him.

It'll hurt them.

I think they were— I don't— I have no idea. I was gonna say I think they were, but I just— I have faith in my mans.

Who knows? Yeah, I got, um, 7 crow bros right now. My murder is expanding.

Damn.

Yep. Um, so I also hate that saying.

I like that we're in a crow race.

Yeah, I like that.

You and Drew anyway.

I mean, I'm really not part of this. Anyway, just watching from afar. Beer. So within 4 years, Western Brewing was one of the top producers of beer, and Adam Lemp was able to move his operation to a bigger facility that was closer to the caves where they stored the beer. A few years later, in 1848, Adam brought his son William from Germany to begin learning the trade because he was like, you're going to take over the business someday.

Hell yeah.

Whether it was the addition of William or it just happened to coincide with his arrival, the decade that followed proved to be very prosperous for Western Brewing. By the time he died in 1862, Adam Lemp's estate was estimated at $20,000, which would be $800,000 in 2026.

That's some good chunk of money right there. Yeah.

Making him one of the wealthiest men in St. Louis, if not the entire Midwest at the time.

Humble brag.

Now, at the time of his father's death, William had enlisted in the U.S. Army, but Adam's death was sufficient cause for him to be discharged to return home to his wife and daughter in St. Louis. So now fully in charge of the brewery, William had big plans to expand the company way beyond what even his dad had imagined. Because to William, it seemed wasteful to spend all that time transferring the beer from the brewery to the caves for lagering. So he decided to move the brewery to the caves.

That's a sick idea.

Yeah, with the brewing operation above ground and the caves below.

That's really smart.

Really smart. Between 1862 and 1886, William increased the brewery's output from 26,000 per year to 300,000 per year.

Wow.

With sales exceeding $3 million, which is roughly $106 million in 2026.

Motherfucker was an entrepreneur.

Yeah, he went for it.

Shark Tank would have loved his ass.

It's true. Now, by 1890, William and his wife Julia had 9 children.

That's a lot of kids.

A lot of kids.

Holy shit.

Ensuring that by the time, you know, when the time came, there would be someone to hand over the business to. 9 someones. By then, William had built what would become known as the Lemp Mansion, an extravagant 2-story home with access to the brewery, via the caves below.

Cool.

2 years after building their massive home, William made another significant change. He rebranded the company as the William J. Lemp Brewing Company, or simply Lemp Brewing.

All right.

Now, by the late 1800s, William decided it was time to start planning, you know, to hand the businesses down to his sons. He wanted to start thinking about retiring. Although William Sr. would remain president of the company, the bulk of the responsibilities were handed down to his son Billy, who would be named vice president.

I'm nervous because did you know that it's a thing that the 3rd generation of a family business usually fucks it up?

Really?

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

It's a, it's a thing.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Well, as the oldest in the family, it seemed pretty natural for Billy to take over that next-in-line position. But it was his youngest son, Frederick, widely known to have been William's favorite, who he had hoped would take over his legacy.

Oh, no. This is giving Succession.

And it's also giving S.K. Pierce.

Oh, it is giving S.K.

Pierce.

Yeah. Yeah.

Unfortunately, Frederick had been born with health problems and wasn't able to meet the demands of running a company. So he was named assistant superintendent. Okay.

To the regional manager?

Exactly. Now the fall of 19— in the fall of 1901, Frederick Lemp traveled to California with his wife and daughter. And he's the youngest, remember?

Okay.

Seeking new and experimental treatments for what was described as, quote, complications of the heart.

Hmm.

That December, William and Julia visited Frederick and left confident— pretty confident that Frederick's health was improving. But just a few days after they arrived in St. Louis, William and Julia received the tragic news that Frederick's health had taken a dramatic turn. And on December 12th, he died.

Oh my God. That's really awful.

Now, the news came as a shock for William, and he was, like, completely destabilized because you're not supposed to die before your kid. No. Or your kid's not supposed to die before you. Like, that's not supposed to happen.

No.

The Lemp Company secretary, Henry Volckamp, said, Suddenly, the grief of the father was most pathetic.

Oh.

Which I was like, okay, Henry.

I guess you can use the word pathetic, like, to be like, so, so sad. You can.

It's like, how sad?

It has bitchy undertones. Well, then—

but then he followed that up by saying, he broke down utterly and cried like a child.

Okay.

It was the first death in the family. He took it so seriously that we feared it would completely shatter his health and looked for the worst to happen. I'm like, okay, Henry, you're really helpful in this situation.

Maybe, like, let your dad grieve.

Maybe get anybody around you that's not Henry Volcamp when somebody dies.

Yeah, evidently.

Because Henry's gonna make you feel bad about it.

He sure will.

He's gonna make you feel really bad about having feelings.

He's like, oh, why are you crying like a little bitch? It's just your son that died.

Henry would be my kryptonite because, like, I already feel bad about having feelings, and he would be like, you are pretty pathetic. And I'd be like, I am.

Like, he would ruin me. That would not be good.

Yeah, he would ruin me.

He'd set you back decades.

He would. I can't be around Henry Volcamp.

Good thing he's probably dead.

Good thing he's, like, very dead.

Yeah, like, soups dead.

RIP Henry. Now, a few months later, William ordered the construction of the Lemp family mausoleum in Bellefontaine Cemetery.

Your dream.

And it remains the largest and most expensive mausoleum in the cemetery to this day.

Until Elena dies.

That is also my dream. Now, devastated by the loss of his favorite son and his youngest son, William attempted to carry on. But Frederick's death left him noticeably and irrevocably changed.

Oh.

3 years later, on January 1st, 1904, William was dealt another devastating blow. when his best friend and rival brewing magnate— brewery magnate Frederick Pabst of Pabst Blue Ribbon.

On ice.

Yep. Dad died from a heart attack at age 65.

Fuck.

The deaths of 2 of the most important— some of the most important people in his life proved way too overwhelming for him. On the morning of February 13th, William waited until his family was out of the house. Then he went up to his bedroom, And he shot himself in the right temple.

Oh, fuck.

He died an hour later from the injury. He was only 68 years old.

Why did it take an hour?

Don't know.

That's fucked.

Yeah. Now, the servants were downstairs busying themselves with work when they heard the shot ring out on the second floor, and they all rushed to see what happened. When they found William on the floor bleeding from the head, one ran for a doctor and the other ran to the brewery to get his sons. The family reached the house just minutes before William died.

That's so sad.

Now, the news of William's death came as little surprise to anyone who knew anything about the family. According to one reporter, quote, at first, he seemed to resist the impulse to withdraw from active life after Frederick's death. But after a time, he yielded to it and was seldom seen at the office.

I mean, I don't know how anybody deals with that.

How do you get over that? Once he'd resigned himself to his grief, he started complaining about aches and pains for which there was no cause to be found.

Probably just depression.

Physical ones, yeah. And he began experiencing regular bouts of insomnia. The death of Pabst, his friend, it seems, was just the last tragedy that he could bear.

It's crazy what, like, just depression can do to your body physically.

Yeah, for sure. Now, with his father dead, majority control of the brewery fell to Billy. No longer needing the massive mansion as a family home, Billy transformed a portion of the house into offices for Lemp Brewing. Unlike his father, who was a shrewd businessman and Pretty frugal, actually. Billy lived an extravagant lifestyle.

Well, if you think about it, he was probably frugal because it made the business more money. Like, look how well it was doing.

Exactly. But Billy, extravagant.

I told you, bitch. Third generation. It's a thing.

You're right. And at the very least, his wife, Lillian Handlen, lived an extravagant lifestyle.

I would too, then.

At the time of their marriage in 1899, Lillian was the daughter of a railroad magnate and the head of the St. Louis high society.

What a lucky bitch.

Yeah.

Rich husband, rich dad.

Right?

living.

And she was known as the Lavender Lady, because that's the color she wore almost exclusively.

I love that!

I know! She employed a staff of full-time seamstresses, and traveled in 7 different carriages.

Goals!

One for every day of the week.

Motherfucking goals! She was the OG Real Housewife!

She was!

She said, did you know, $25,000?

Like, she was!

I'm obsessed!

Now, according to some, the marriage between Billy and Lillian was quote, more of a business than a romantic deal.

Ah.

Whether or not that's true is anyone's guess, but the marriage did produce one child, a son, William III. For years, the couple created a spectacle wherever they went. They traveled in those lavish carriages. They dined at the most expensive restaurants. But behind the scenes, the marriage was in danger of falling apart.

Uh-oh.

Among other things, Billy accused his wife of constantly needing to be a public spectacle. And even suggested that, quote, the excessive wearing of the color lavender was to attract public attention.

I mean, of course it would.

He would also go on to claim that, quote, she used profane language and was unfaithful to him.

I love her. I don't love the unfaithfulness, of course, but I love her.

Literally.

Traveling in a different car every day, exclusively wearing a signature color, and swearing while you do it all. That's a bad bitch. I love her. That is a bad bitch. Good for her.

Lillian made similar accusations, accusing her husband of cheating on her, being abusive, and even threatening her with a pistol.

Oh, yeah. Cheat on him.

In 1908, Lillian filed for divorce, citing her husband's infidelity and physical abuse as the reason.

I'm like, damn, she was allowed to do that? That's crazy.

For a couple who had spent so much of their married lives in the press, the trial was, of course, one of the most sensational events in St. Louis that they had seen in years.

I'm sure.

For 11 days, residents packed the courtroom to hear the accusations that Billy and Lillian were just hurling at each other, until finally the judge ruled in Lillian's favor, granting her the divorce. Maybe worse, at least from Billy's perspective, was the judge also awarded her a $6,000 per year alimony and full custody of their son, with Billy only receiving visitation.

Oof.

For Lillian, that wasn't enough, though.

She said, get him.

After the verdict was handed down, she took her case to the state Supreme Court and demanded a retrial.

She said, I'm not done.

I want more. The court denied the retrial but amended the verdict, awarding her a lump sum payment of $100,000, the, quote, largest sum ever awarded in Missouri to that point.

That's my girl.

That's Lillian. That's Lillian.

Pour one out for her.

Lillian had won, or so it seemed. But the truth was— and this is sad— the divorce may have gotten her a large sum of money and sole custody of their son, but that's where the benefits really started and ended for her.

Oh no.

According to author Elizabeth Benoist, quote, the Lavender Lady was a pitiful sight after that. She still wore lavender, but she never got over the divorce. She was right pretty, but crazy as a coot.

Hey, hey, don't talk about my girl like that.

And also, like, So she's right, she's pretty. She's pretty and crazy, like, let her live. Like, that seems fine.

Pretty and crazy is a great combination.

All right, like, that's—

I'd like to claim the same.

Yeah. Billy, meanwhile, remarried to Ellie Limburg, daughter of the president of Columbia Brewing.

Fuck.

So he went right for another brewing girl.

Look at all this brewery friendship.

I know. Now, Billy's high-profile divorce from the Lavender Lady was just the first domino to fall for the exceedingly wealthy and prosperous Lemp family. In 1910, Billie's younger— youngest sister, Elsa, married Thomas Wright, who was the president of the Moore-Jones Brass and Metal Company.

Okay.

Very—

High society.

All the companies. For years, it seemed from the outside that the marriage was an okay one. But by 1919, Elsa filed for divorce, claiming that, quote, her husband had destroyed her peace and happiness.

Fuck.

Whoa.

Men will do that.

Yeah, they do be doing that.

One thing about men is they love coming for peace and happiness.

But unlike her brother and now his ex-wife, Elsa refused to share the details of her marriage with the public and even left much out of the divorce petition.

Wow.

The divorce was granted, but within a few months, they reconciled.

Oh.

And on March 8th, 1920, they remarried.

Interesting.

Yeah.

I always find that very fascinating when people will divorce and then remarry.

'Cause divorce is such, like, a process. And to get to that point, I would think it has to go— I mean, so far into, like, we can't fix this territory, obviously, that you're like, we can't fix this, so we have to end it.

Yeah.

And then to come back from that, I'm like, damn.

I know.

What a fucking roller coaster.

For real.

Now, throughout much of her adult life, Elsa Wright had struggled with depression and anxiety.

Oh.

Though, like her father, her symptoms were rarely acknowledged and really not treated by a professional.

Yeah.

And on the evening of March 19th, Elsa went to the symphony alone. Then she returned home and had dinner with Thomas. And after dinner, they spent the evening together before she went to bed, telling him she wasn't feeling well and was planning to spend the next day in bed. Um, the next morning, Thomas was taking a bath when he heard a, quote, sharp sound coming from the adjoining bedroom. Thinking his wife was calling out to him, he got out of the bath and went into the bedroom, and he found Elsa laying on the bed, a bullet wound in her chest from where she had allegedly shot herself with a .22 caliber revolver.

Okay.

Thomas called for a doctor, but by the time they arrived, it was too late. Elsa was dead.

Oh, that's so tragic.

Now, given that the couple had so recently divorced, only to quickly reconcile and remarry, some found Elsa's death suspicious.

Yeah.

And a coroner's inquest was held to determine the cause of death.

Okay.

According to Thomas, Eltha had— Elsa— Eltha?

Eltha. Eltha.

According to Thomas, Elsa had gone through many bouts of depression over the years, They were— that they were married, but, quote, she never threatened suicide, and he could think of no reason why she would have taken her own life.

Okay.

Now, at the inquest, the officers and physician who were called to the scene testified that they both saw no signs of struggle in the bedroom that would suggest foul play. But both maids testified that when they entered the bedroom, they saw the revolver lying on the floor by the couch, about 10 feet from the bed where Elsa lay dying. No one seemed to be able to explain how, if she had shot herself, the gun was found so far away from the body.

Yeah, that's weird.

But after just a few hours of testimony, the coroner deemed the death was a suicide and the case was closed.

Interesting.

Now, according to filmmaker Frankie Cambaletta, there were several red flags when it came to the scene of Elsa's death.

Yeah.

Most notably, there was no blood at the scene. The wound was a through-and-through wound. Meaning it entered her chest and exited through her back. And he said, quote, usually if you get hit by a bullet and it gets stuck inside somewhere, there's not a lot of blood.

Uh-huh.

But if it enters your heart and out your back and there's no blood, that's gonna raise some questions.

Yeah. There's nothing?

Not a lot of blood, at least.

Okay.

In fact, the police and coroner may have rested their case when it came to the cause of death, but St. Louis press and public were not quite ready to let that story go. Some claimed Elsa had divorced Thomas because he was cheating on her with several different women. They had also gone through the tragic experience of losing a baby not long before Elsa filed for divorce.

That's very sad.

Then there's the fact that just prior to rekindling their relationship, Elsa supposedly filed a new will in order to prevent Thomas from receiving her estate in the event of the— of her death.

Oh.

Whether or not Elsa's death was in fact a suicide, is still a mystery.

Yeah, there's some interesting points there, though.

Yeah. But as the 3rd member of the family to die in less than 2 decades, and the 2nd to die by violence, Elsa's death is the continuation of a pretty tragic legacy here.

For sure.

And the next time that tragedy came around, it didn't wait that long. Now, the problem with building a business on vice, essentially, is that should the political or social winds change directions and move people away from your business, it can be difficult to avoid—

A catastrophic ruin.

A catastrophic ruin, you know? Yeah.

You talking about Prohibition?

Following his divorce from Lillian in 1908, Billy was splitting his time between the mansion and Allswell, his vacation home— and we're talking about Billy again— his vacation home along the Merrimack River in Sunset Hills. And by the time he'd married Ellie, the couple was residing at Allswell full-time and spending time with Billy's son whenever possible. Elsa's death had been a tragic experience for the Lemp family, particularly given that her death was followed by speculation and, you know, the potential of foul play.

Yeah.

But otherwise, the Lemp family's prosperity continued to grow.

But—

You knew it was coming. It was sharply interrupted by the ratification of the 18th Amendment banning the manufacture and sale of alcohol in the United States, otherwise known as Prohibition.

You said 1919, and I said, we're approaching an interesting point in this story.

Obviously, the ban was a devastating blow to liquor and beer manufacturers across the nation. Some managed to survive Prohibition by manufacturing non-alcoholic goods and products.

Okay.

And a small number marketed non-alcoholic beer that contained less than 0.5% alcohol. To stay afloat, Billy Lemp shifted the company's priorities towards making their own non-alcoholic beer. It was called Serva, but the product wasn't successful enough to pay the bills, and soon the company was falling apart. Within a year, Lemp Brewing found itself in a desperate situation. The rest of the stakeholders in the company, all family members, had accrued their own wealth, so they had limited roles within the brewery, and they were kind of ambivalent about its future because they were fine.

Okay.

It was only Billy who was really committed to keeping the business alive.

Yeah.

But by early 1922, even Billy gave up on trying to keep the business going, really. That summer, he sold the buildings at auction, mostly to the International Shoe Company. 3 years later, the property had been valued at $3 million, but at auction, he received $585,000.

Ooh, that's a loss.

Now, for Billy, the slow and disappointing liquidation of the company's assets only compounded the self-loathing he felt at having failed to keep his family business alive. Billy's friend— Billy told a friend, they told us when Prohibition came that we could make something out of our plants. But look what happened. Now, in the months after the auction, Billy continued to sell off the rest of the company's assets and corner bars. Receiving about 8 cents on the dollar.

Ooh!

So bad. At the same time, he started to exhibit signs not dissimilar to those displayed by his father.

I would think so.

Shortly before his death in 1904, Billy was constantly nervous and frequently complained of chills and aches.

Oh.

On the morning— morning of December 29th, 1922, Billy arrived at the brewery just as he had every morning for years. And on his way to his office, he was greeted by the company secretary and resident vibe killer, Henry Volkamp.

Ugh!

Who mentioned that Billy was looking better than he had in recent days.

Okay.

And in reply, Billy said, I may look better, but I'm feeling worse.

Oh.

Which is so sad.

That's really sad.

Then he went into his office, and Volkamp went about his business. He walked up to the second floor, and moments later, 2 shots were heard from Billy's office. The company stenographer, Miss Burczyk, was the first to hear the noise, and when she ran into Billy's office, she found him lying on his back in the corner of the room, a .38 caliber revolver just a few inches from his right hand. He had removed his jacket and unbuttoned his vest, making it easy to see the 2 large bullet wounds in his chest, just an inch apart.

How'd he shoot himself twice?

To make sure, I guess.

Damn.

The stenographer called for a doctor, but there was no point. He was already dead. When his son William arrived at the brewery that morning, he was overheard yelling, you knew I knew it! I was afraid this was coming!

Who said that?

His son, William.

Oh, that's so sad.

Now, according to his friend August Busch, who also has a beer company—

My goodness.

Who had seen him a few days earlier, he said, quote, he seemed cheerful, and there was no indication that he was worrying either about the business situation or anything else. Which is common.

I was gonna say.

Now, 2 days later, the funeral was held at the company offices, and Billy's remains were taken to the family mausoleum. With his father dead, Billy's son, William III, inherited the family business, or what was left of it. When Prohibition was repealed in 1933, William III tried to revive Lemp Brewing, but his father had previously sold the name and recipe of the brewery's most famous beer, Falstaff. And another company had already begun making it.

Oh, that sucks.

In 1939, William III entered into a licensing deal with Central Breweries, another St. Louis company, and they officially rebranded themselves as William J. Lemp Brewing Company. At first, things started going well, and the latest incarnation of Lemp Brewing was, like, seeming to be a success.

Okay.

But just one year later, sales of the new Lemp products began to decline steeply. And by the end of 1941, Lemp Brewing was once again bankrupt.

Damn.

2 years later, William III died from a heart attack at age 43.

Holy shit. That is so young and so terrifying.

Yeah. With several members of the Lemp family dead and the brewery completely closed, the rest of the family members drifted further and further away from one another. At the time, Billy's brother Charles was the only Lemp family member still living in the mansion. Which was by then one half house and one half empty brewery offices now.

Oh, that's like spooky.

Really spooky. For a time, Charles had worked alongside his brothers at the brewery, serving first as the company treasurer, then as the vice president, before leaving in 1911 to go into the banking business. His move away from the family business coincided with his move out of the house and into the racquet club. In 1929, though, he returned to the mansion, living there alone. Charles Lemp never married. In the years following his return to the mansion, he became increasingly reclusive as he entered his later years.

To live in a big old mansion by yourself, like, that's spooky.

Charles Lemp never married. In the following years after his return from the fam— to the family mansion, he became pretty reclusive.

I feel like living in a mansion, like, all by yourself, you would become—

And like, your family's just dying around you.

Yeah.

And the business just, like, imploded on itself. What else do you do?

Half of the mansion is, like, just abandoned offices, essentially.

The ghost of your family business.

Yeah.

That's rough.

I'd become pretty fucking reclusive too.

And places where all your, like, your family members have killed themselves in this house and in that brewery. But in the spring of 1949, several people noticed that Charles had begun to suffer from, quote, nervousness, but he rarely engaged with anyone. So the extent of his discomfort, we can't really say. Now, on the morning of May 10th, 1949, just after 8 AM, the cook, Lena Bittner, placed the breakfast tray outside Charles's door, just as she did every morning.

Oh, I would love to have a cook place a breakfast tray outside my door.

Chef Riley!

Chef Riley!

Our boy Riley!

Can you cook me breakfast?

Please come be my chef.

Be our chef.

Now, a few hours later— and we can just hang out.

Be our chef! Be our chef!

A few hours later, she noticed the tray was still outside the door. completely untouched. Not sure what to do, Bittner called her husband, who came to the house, and after knocking several times, they entered the bedroom to find Charles's body lying in the bed, a bullet wound in his head.

Oh my God.

On the bedside table, there was a note that read, in case I am found dead, blame no one but me.

Oh.

Charles Lemp was 77 years old. That's so wild that you could live that long and still have it end like that.

It's so tragic.

He died one room away from where his brother Billy had shot himself nearly 30 years earlier.

Oh, shit.

And just down the hall from where his father had died in 1904.

That's so gnarly.

Now, Charles's death left Edwin Lemp the only remaining member of the original dynasty left alive.

Oh.

Edwin had worked alongside his brothers early at the brewery, but like Charles, he had left the family business in 1913 and rarely interacted with his siblings. A lover of animals, Edwin donated heavily to the St. Louis Zoo and the Missouri History Museum. And he died of natural causes in 1970, effectively ending the family legacy.

Interesting.

So they are— they all— that was the end. But now there's ghosts.

Yeah.

Because after Charles's death, the Lemp Mansion was purchased at auction and turned into a boarding house.

Of course.

That at its peak was able to accommodate as many as 18 lodgers. Unfortunately, in the 25 years that followed, the owners let the once very opulent mansion fall into near disrepair.

That's so fucked up.

I know.

That shit always pisses me off.

Take care of these things.

If you buy it, take care of it.

Yeah. And in 1975, it was purchased by Richard Pointer, who heavily renovated the building and transformed it into a restaurant.

Oh, that's cool.

It was during this period that strange things started happening at Lem Mansion.

Okay.

Pointer later recalled, I was painting a bathroom by myself. There was no one in the house, and I felt someone behind me watching me.

Yuck.

I mean, it was a terrible feeling, the most burning sensation you could have. I turned around and nothing was there. I started working again and got the same feeling. I cleaned my brushes and got the hell out of there.

Ew.

Local painter Claude Breckwalt had a similar experience while working in the home to restore the original hand-painted ceilings. He said, I was on the scaffolding, lying on my back, painting the ceiling in the dining room when I got the feeling that someone was staring at me. He said, it felt as though they were in the hallway just outside the room, but I couldn't see anything past the frosted glass doors. I felt like I just had to get out right then.

Which is so weird because, like, obviously we've talked about, like, ghosts hating renovations before.

Yeah.

But it seems they were trying to restore certain things.

They're trying to be like, what's going on here?

Yeah.

Now, in the months after that, other members of the Poynter family began having their own experiences with the house. Televisions would turn off and on by themselves, doors appeared to open and close on their own, and inexplicable noises could be heard throughout the house.

Oh!

But while Richard's initial experience was unsettling for sure, he was like, I felt like I had to get out of there, others found, like, a strange and unex— they found these, like, strange, weird things happening. Kind of charming.

I always find— I'll find certain hauntings charming.

Yeah. During the remodeling phase, for example, Richard and others would frequently come across old family heirlooms and other antiques that were exactly what they needed to finish the renovation. Oh, how cool is that? Like the family was being like, this would— this is what it looked like.

And it's almost like, yeah, like they did appreciate—

Like they knew it was bringing it back a little bit.

The restoration.

So they were kind of being like, hey, like this lamp was in this room, so like—

That's cool.

I was just like, I love that.

I like that a lot.

By 1980, the Lemp Mansion and its supposedly ghostly inhabitants gained natural notoriety when it was featured in Life magazine for an article on America's most haunted houses.

Ooh, I love those articles.

Yeah. Several photos of the interior appeared alongside anecdotes from Richard and others who'd experienced, like, weird shit in the house. The national attention dramatically increased interest in the house, and soon people were coming from all over to have their own ghost experience. During a séance, which they held in 1982, several guests took photos with a Polaroid camera, and in one, a man's face can be seen in the background standing between 2 laughing women.

Stop it.

Both women in the photo insisted there was absolutely no man there when the photo was taken.

That freaks me the hell out.

According to St. Louis psychic Gordon Honer, the man was Charles Lemp, who Honer considers, quote, the most dependable performer in the house.

Really?

Yeah.

Which is so funny because Because he was a recluse in life. Yeah.

I think now he's like, all right, like, let's hang out now.

All right.

Maybe he feels just, like, free.

Maybe he found peace.

Gordon and his tour participants aren't the only ones who experienced the presence of Charles Lemp in the house. In 1950, just one year after Charles's death and the year the mansion was turned into a boarding house, one of the earliest boarders had a run-in with the last Lemp to live in the house. He said, so this night I went into the bath, and when I came out, only myself was there. But as I was passing the stairs, there stood a well-dressed man. He did not move. He suddenly appeared there. He looked steadily right at me, smiling. I have never seen any pictures of a Lemp family member, but I know this man was the ghost of Charles Lemp. All this took was only a second to see. The man wanted me to see him.

Ew.

So Charles is just like, hi.

I don't like that he was, like, smiling. I find that a little unsettling.

Now, soon, the appearances of the various Lemp family members in the restaurant and the rooms and hallways upstairs became very common for the employees of the restaurant. But there are other stories that go beyond, like, a shadowy figure in the corner of your eye. In one incident, not long after the restaurant opened, a group of young women were seated at a table, all wearing blazers. As they were eating their meal, one of the buttons on a diner's blazer popped off and flew across the room.

Oh, shit.

And they just laughed. They were like, oh, a wardrobe malfunction? That was crazy.

Yeah.

Then about a few minutes later, it happened again. And then it happened to a few other women at the table.

Oh my God.

Yeah. Like, so they were like—

That's a saucy ghost.

I know. I was like, who is that?

Who's undressing you?

Yeah. Damn. Now, by the mid-1980s, the Pointers expanded their business to become a bed and breakfast. Not long after, the calls from disturbed guests started rolling into the front desk.

Oh, I love it.

Often, guests reported returning to their rooms after a night out only to find someone sitting up in their bed.

Shut the fuck up.

That would fuck me up.

What the fuck? And to see a full-body apparition wake up.

Sitting up in your bed.

Fuck that.

Typically, they would check the door to make sure they hadn't gone into the wrong room. They were like, holy shit. But when they looked back, the person was gone.

Ew.

Co-owner Paul Pointer said, we've had people who have not been able to stay the night. I don't necessarily feel comfortable coming over here by myself. I'm looking over my shoulder constantly.

Really?

Today, the Lemp Mansion still stands as one of St. Louis's most popular bed and breakfasts. And usually the guests come for the food and the accommodations more than the ghosts. Mary Pointer said, some sad things did happen in that family, but any house that's over 150 years old is gonna have a history. Still, there are those who can't seem to resist the chance to see a ghost and hear the tragic story of the Lyme family. I'd like to go to those people.

Make me too.

Yeah, I want to see it.

Oh, I want to have a séance.

I want to have a séance. We're gonna have a séance. We are gonna have a séance.

I don't know what more we can say though.

Yeah, I'm excited.

I'm so excited.

I'm so excited to talk to dead people.

Wow, what a very tragic tale.

It is.

But like, hearing that people saw Charles smiling in the afterlife and that he's like the most frequently seen apparition, that's— I find that interesting and hopeful.

Yeah, they seem to be having like fun in the afterlife.

Yeah.

Like, I think they feel like a little freer.

Yeah. Unburdened.

by the tethers of business, by the tethers of brewing. So I think they're just like, we just get to hang now.

There's also just so many famous beer magnets. Yeah, that's really crazy. I was like, damn, like Pabst Ribbon, Busch. We always just called it PBR.

Uh, PBR, Busch.

Yeah, there's another— there was another one too, probably. There's a lot.

That was crazy.

What a tale.

Yeah, that's a crazy one. All right, so I want to see that I'd like to go to there. You're in St. Louis. Tell us about it.

We just need to go to St. Louis, St. Louis, because we're always talking about it.

We are.

And there's also, um, there's some other cool stuff you can do in Missouri. Yeah.

Tell us what to do.

Yeah.

Hit us up.

Well, with that being said, we hope you came listening.

And we hope you— Came.

Yeah.

Weird. Weird.

Well, not so weird that you don't tell us what to do in Missouri. I don't know why I got to that level, but— I liked that. I'm gonna go now.

Bye.

Bye.