Transcript of Stars Over New Orleans with Aliza Kelly

Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash. I'm Alayna.

I'm Aliza.

And this is a special episode of Morbid. Aliza is back and as cool as ever.

Oh, wow, wow, wow.

I was gonna say better than ever, but you just remain cool. Yeah,

it's true.

Cool. I love that.

She's wearing a Bratz skirt.

Oh, yes.

Does it get any cooler than that?

No. Does it get any midlife crisis than that? No.

You're not there yet, babe.

No way.

We're not there yet.

I don't know. The writing's on the wall. A Bratz skirt for no good reason. Yeah.

The cutest midlife crisis ever.

I was gonna say.

As far as I'm concerned.

Lean in.

I'll take it.

Right. Maybe the aesthetics of a midlife crisis are actually— Worth it. Yeah. I think so. There's something there.

I keep seeing this thing that is like, the older I get, the more I just like turn into my like 10-year-old self again. Or like somebody my 10-year-old self would've been obsessed with.

Yeah,

that actually is true.

Yeah.

Yes.

I fully agree with that.

As I am doing this tour in the midst of this right now, obviously I have like a lot of sequiny things, which is also like what I've been sourcing on Depop, on Poshmark. So I'm in this like sequin state of mind, which also means that like for just regular getting together with someone for coffee, I'm now wearing like a sequin mini dress. I love that. And like, I realize as I'm— only as I'm coming in that I'm like, oh, it's giving Menti B. No, no, it's giving she is that thing.

Exactly.

It's giving 11 AM.

Here's the thing, the world is burning, so we should all get our sequins out and wear them.

Everybody's too judgy anyways. Let everybody wear what they want to wear and be who they want to be.

That's it.

Wear your sequins.

Wear whatever the fuck you want to wear.

You at home too.

Yeah, wear your fucking leggings every single day.

Yeah.

And wear whatever you want.

Who cares?

Don't save things.

I think I'm gonna wear sequins to your show now.

Yeah, I mean, sequins, it turns out they really do look lovely under—

they really do in the

light.

Oh, the lights.

Yeah, the sparkle is just like— and that's the 10-year-old in me I'm like, that's really sparkly.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

That girl is so sparkly.

And I can't keep my eyes off of it.

No, you can't.

If it sparkles, I'm looking. I love it. I'm there. That's it. I love it. Can't resist.

You have Gemini in your chart, don't you?

I have Gemini. My 5th house is Gemini.

Okay.

So like my creative spark is Gemini coded. And I do feel that very much where like I feel, I mean, I feel like especially at this moment in my life, like, I'm very deep in the whimsy. I feel really locked in, in fun, whimsy, frivolity. Yes. Despite, you know, the collapse of Western civilization. Humanity. I'm out there in sequins.

No, you gotta lean into your—

It's very cabaret.

I'm showing up to the end of the world whimsically.

Yeah.

That's what I'm doing.

There's no other way. If there's ever a time, right?

I'm bringing the whimsy with me.

I think it's—

We need it.

It's what we have to do.

We need more whimsy.

It's our calling.

We need to romanticize things, whimsical.

Yeah, maybe it's where we lost the plot. I think it is. Bring whimsy back. Bring whimsy back. Bring whimsy back. Bring fun and frivolity. Bring fringe back for the love of God. Bring it all.

I love fringe. Yeah. Yeah. Bring it all back.

Bring it all back.

Some texture, some movement, a little sparkle, a little glisten, a little glitter. Just be a bustle.

Everyone just stop caring.

Yeah.

We— Just stop caring.

Yes.

I did a while ago.

Just live. Yes.

Yeah. It's great.

Yeah.

It's an interesting time to be alive.

Sure is.

It's—

I feel like— To say the least.

I mean, even in the— this is our 3rd year doing this every October spooky season. And I do feel like even in the past couple of years, it's like so much has had to change. So much has changed. Oh, yeah.

It's crazy.

Yes. Yeah. There's just been—

I can't believe this is our 3rd year. I love that this is our little tradition.

I know. I love that. It's really the best.

Yeah.

It's so fun.

I look forward to this.

We started with the witch trials, right?

Yes.

Then we went to Jack the Ripper last year. And this year we're taking it to a place of the Axemen of New Orleans.

New Orleans.

And I told you both that I found out that I'm related to one Corey. Giles.

That is the coolest claim. Incredible. The coolest claim in history.

The more weight

it's

like to be related to the one who

cursed Salem.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the first time that I went to Salem is when I— 2 years ago when we did the show.

Yeah.

And I went there and I was like, oh, I am so locked in. I was like, I feel so alive.

And that's why.

Yes.

Did you already know at that point?

No, I just found out like within the past year. Okay.

I thought that's so crazy.

So it's, it's really crazy. I mean, especially like the only guy.

Yeah.

And then the guy who is like the one who put that curse on it, which is the curse that came true because now every year witches descend on Salem.

Yeah, exactly.

And the Puritans are all like flipping in their graves. Yeah.

Yeah.

And they had to move the sheriff's office away from the original location because

they were all

dying. Yeah. They were all having like heart-related issues.

Yep.

Yeah.

I think there was like only like one or two that didn't actually die from heart problems.

Wow.

Yeah, it's fascinating. We're going to revisit it soon, actually.

Yeah.

The witch trials. It's so good. We just— we have to go back.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

It is.

Yeah. And it's like an important— it's like a cautionary tale.

Oh, yes.

It's a tale of like—

especially now. I feel like it's very relevant now.

Absolutely.

I feel like Puritans have risen back up. Like we've got a puritanical group that has risen up.

It's like Fear Street. They're coming back.

They really are. It's scary.

It is scary. Yeah. And it's like, you know, this, this trying to turn these like hot goths into tradwives over and over. It's like nobody needs it.

Don't do that.

Don't do it.

Like, stop it.

Stop it. We don't need another tradwife.

No, no.

And also like tradwives, the OG tradwives did not want to be tradwives.

No.

So why are we embracing this?

That's the thing.

They were not choosing it. Like, they were just like, fuck you, bitches. I didn't want to gather those eggs.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, I wanted to be on vacation.

Yeah.

Yes. No, I think that it's, uh, I feel like every It's like a tale that needs to be told so that we can keep it fresh in the frontal lobe of the collective consciousness.

Exactly.

Of like, you see, you see what happens.

You see what can happen? Don't let it happen again.

No. Please don't let history repeat itself. But you were saying it kind of seems like history repeated itself a little bit with the Axeman case. And there's correlations between the last time you were here talking about Jack the Ripper.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting because the more that we look at from an astrological point of view, the more patterns start to emerge as well.

Okay.

And it's like very fascinating to see like, well, what are the correlations between these things? And I remember when we were talking about the Salem trials, a lot of the astrology was astrology that was about to happen.

Yeah.

So a lot of the astrology of then, it was kind of like, oh, and watch out because we haven't had that since then.

Right.

And we've been in it. So no wonder it has also like we're—

Yeah.

dealing with similar things. And I've been thinking about the Jack the Ripper so much because there was that Neptune-Pluto conjunction, super, super rare. We haven't had it since. And that sort of like the spooky, you know, mystery around death and, you know, what does it mean and how do we sort of like turn— fictionalize this very real thing that has happened and almost like turn it into a fantasy of allure. And there's similar things in Axemen too.

That makes so much sense.

Yes. So interesting. Because there are key points. So really quickly, just to give you guys a quick overview before we dive into the astrology of the time, the Axeman of New Orleans started around May 1918, and it ended in October of 1919. But it was absolutely brutal.

Yeah, and it was consistent too.

It was super consistent. I think it was literally at one point almost a kill a month.

Yeah.

Yeah. And also at the same time during the killings in the fall of 1918, there was a 12-week stretch within everything where New Orleans was also the epicenter for the Spanish influenza.

Hey.

So shit was just popping off in New Orleans.

Yep.

And actually, the city had a very high death rate in another round of flu that hit the fall of 1919. And that is when the Axeman hung up his ax.

Yeah.

So some people wondered, did he get out of there because he knew the flu was coming? Did he die? Or did the flu go after him? Did the flu go after him? And he died of the flu?

Yeah, maybe.

But total, there were—

He's in people's houses.

Yeah. But she's not.

He's not social distancing.

He's not quarantining. No. I don't think he's wearing a mask.

Hey, that's more than 6 feet. Yeah.

I don't think he was wearing a mask either.

He's high risk.

But there were 12 total attacks, 6 confirmed deaths. It was gnarly.

And they were brutal. These were brutal attacks. People in bed, children. I mean, really bad.

A lot of women. It seemed like he only— there's a theory that he only killed men when they were in the way of him killing a woman.

And they were Italian Americans for the most part, right?

Yep. And a lot of grocers, which I find interesting.

Yeah, there's a lot here to work with.

There is.

Yeah. When I was going into it and going deep in, you know, like really living, laughing, loving—

I love it.

35 charts here or something. I love it. To me, it was like, why don't more people know about this case? It's so Jack the Ripper coded.

Yeah.

But it was, I do believe, because there was a pandemic going on.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

And in the same way, like, you know, now that we have lived through it, we know that in those 2020, 2021 years, there were a lot of things that kind of just like got— didn't get as much attention as they would have. Just got absorbed by other things. They got absorbed. It's like we know how the news cycle works, and it was the same going on then. It's like, obviously there's something brutal that's happening that's really scary, but it's also really scary that everyone is getting sick around you and that everyone now needs to, like, go back into their homes and that all of these businesses are shutting down. And, you know, there's businesses that are going out and, like, the whole city is not able to sustain itself. And yeah, it's horrible that there's someone coming into our houses killing us, but, like, it's one of a lot of things.

Horrors are dealing with us.

Yes. And I wonder if, like, that the sort of the timing of it made this case sort of more it just didn't get the same type of attention that Jack the Ripper did in its time and place.

Yeah, I think that's completely right. Because I think before, when we first covered it, it was 2018.

That was pre-pandemic.

And so it was pre-pandemic.

We were like, what's that?

We could look at it through a lens of just like, wow, that sounds crazy. That you had to— businesses were shutting down and nobody could go to social gatherings and there was curfews and all this stuff. And I remember reading it and being like, that must have been crazy. But you can only look at it from far away and say, wow, that sounds like it was crazy. So it just doesn't hit like it does now living through a pandemic. We can sit there and go, oh yeah, that makes total sense that this didn't pop off the way it should have because we know how that was now. We're like, oh, that took over everything. It's way worse than you could even conjure by just reading about it.

And people don't want to talk about it.

No.

Right? We still don't want to talk about what happened.

We're not over it.

Yeah. We do not really know how to talk about it still. Collectively, we do not have a shared language around it. That was the same then. People did not want to talk about what had happened. So things that were going on in that time sort of just got swept up in like that, we do not talk about that era. We do not talk about it.

It is so crazy.

You also have to think too, it was so different because there were no vaccines.

They

were trying, but it was not there yet.

It is not like today where it is like, We got one right away.

It was just like, you're screwed if you got this.

Yeah.

And I think there were mask fights. There were. Like there is now, where some people get mad about wearing— it's so funny that as humans, we've always been this way.

It's so funny that as humans, we don't grow.

Yeah, we just don't grow. Yeah.

It's crazy. And we also don't grow where we don't look. You know what I

mean? Yeah, exactly.

It's like hush-hush time.

Yes. And it's like— You don't learn from it. Yeah. If we don't want to deal with something, then we're also not like— it's not part of of the collective language, you know? Like shut

it

off, yup.

Yeah, and like I remember during COVID people were like, this is— this has never happened before. And I'm like, it actually did. It didn't.

Many, many times.

Like it's happened a lot before and it happened like not that long ago really in like the grand scheme of things. Absolutely. Not to mention that obviously there was an epidemic in the '80s with AIDS, you know? I'm like, that's really, really recent. But like, no, there's like just this— But if you wanna shut it off. Smooth brain. Yeah, shut off.

Yeah, smooth brain, exactly.

It really is, yeah.

Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

This has never, ever happened. Never. Are you sure?

Unprecedented.

Yeah. You sure, guys? No. There are crazy parallels between what was going on then with the outbreak and our timing.

Really?

Yes. Like, in a way where I'm like, I can't believe that I didn't look at that years ago.

Really?

Yeah. Like, I'm pretty stunned that for some reason some of these correlations have passed me by. Maybe because I wasn't looking. Exactly. What a deal. But like looking at this, I'm like, okay. I mean, not to bury the lead here, so I'll just share. The same day that the flu broke out in 1918 was the day that the epidemic was declared here in 2020. Like, what are the odds of that?

It was March 11th.

March 11th, 1918. March 11th, 2020. Same exact day.

That is spooky as hell.

That is so weird. Yes. That is weird.

Any planetary alignments that were the same?

Yeah. I mean, there were, there were, there obviously the sun was in the same place. It was the same day. It was, it was, so watch out March 11th, you know?

Damn. For real.

Which is insane. And I was looking at this and I was like, did I get this? Did I plug that in wrong? Like, could it have actually been the same? And I remember, cuz that's my anniversary with Luke. So we were out while like, it was like, oh, the world is actively shutting down. The NBA shut down. It's a, it's an, Epidemic! It's a pandemic! Like, we were getting the alerts during it over dinner.

Oh my God.

So I'll always remember that day. And when I saw this, I was like, did I like glitch out? Like, no, same. And then, yeah, we have, you know, it's a lot of the same outer planets that are being activated through this.

That makes sense.

Wow. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing. And also interesting, the fact that we have these earlier attacks and this story because, you know, the this— the Axeman himself was never caught.

Right.

It's a cold case.

Yeah.

Yup.

And because— and there's these stories of attacks that had happened before 1918. I also had to pull the charts for them, obviously.

Of course.

And it's a very interesting sort of, you know, how— what is this story?

Who are these people? Yeah, do we have a traveling man here?

Yes. Do we have this sort of, like— and this kind of comes in before the outbreak. of course, changes.

Yep.

Then back again during the outbreak.

Yep.

So, yeah, I— the first chart that I have for this, the first attack was on Harriet and August Crutey on August 13th, 1910. There's a lot of August attacks here.

Ooh, interesting.

Both of these people end up surviving, but like we'll hear with a lot, remember nothing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Which happens, I guess, when your head's being Bad choices.

It was a mess.

Yeah, that'll happen.

But they owned a grocery store. Uh, Harriet awoke to a man standing above her bed holding a meat cleaver.

Oh.

So like a sort of—

A little different.

Yeah, a little different, but like maybe a proto-axe.

Yeah.

Um, in this case, they— he did take money. He also took a canary.

Okay.

That was in a cage.

That's shitty.

So ran out with the money and the canary, let the canary go,

Oh!

A few blocks later, but then left, you know, left some signature things, left the meat cleaver, hopped the fence, you know, had, like, lost the bloody clothes, like, things that we'll see earlier. But this is not attributed to the Axeman.

Interesting.

There's similarities and there's differences.

Yeah.

He did always leave the ax, it seemed.

Yeah, he always left the weapon.

He would leave bloody clothes. It seems like he would somehow change on the scene. but he never really took valuables.

Yeah.

Like, in New Orleans, it seems.

Yeah, New Orleans he did.

Yeah. So this, this is in New Orleans. And it's an interesting thing because with these first few attacks, it almost feels to me like there's a little trial and error as to what this person wants to do.

Yeah. I was wondering that.

You know, how do they— what is their style? Like, it's— they're in their, like, puberty era of attacking. Yes.

Or he thinks he needs to take something to, like, make it look— Exactly. But then he's like, That just adds time, or it's an extra thing I don't need to do because that's not why I'm here

to

begin with.

Totally.

Kind of thing.

I wonder why he would switch from a meat cleaver to an ax, because I almost feel like—

Maybe it was just like—

Whatever's available.

Yeah.

But I also think that we end up finding more success with some weapons than others.

Makes sense.

So they stick with one more than the other one.

An ax is going to inflict a lot more, for sure.

And I think he finds an ax at one of the—

There's a few.

There's a couple of them, so I think he just maybe makes do. It's just available.

Yeah, he's like, oh, I love an ax.

Yeah, he's like, oh, I've done that before.

Oh, I see this. I'll grab that.

It calls to him.

Yeah. When I was looking at the chart for this, one of the first things that I noticed was that we have a Neptune and Uranus opposition going on. So this is another— this Uranus-Neptune opposition is another one of these incredibly rare, very, very unusual transits that happens. It's something that occurs really very irregularly. You know, we're talking—

Because they're so slow-moving.

So slow-moving. This is— we haven't had a Uranus-Neptune opposition since this time.

Wow.

We also have a ton of planets that are at 22 degrees. Now, I recently have looked at the charts for the top 5 most notorious serial killers of the 20th century, because what else does one do with their time?

Of

course. Yes. And this 22-degree point is present in a ton of their charts.

And it doesn't matter what house. It's just 22 degrees in any house. Yes, 22 degrees.

And that was also the degree that Saturn and Pluto met in 2020 when the pandemic started.

Whoa.

And in fact, it was in January, January 12th, that we had the Sun, Saturn, Pluto, the South Node all at 22 degrees. And I remember looking at that and being like, 22, like, whoa.

What's significant there? Yeah.

And I see it across all of these charts is 22.

Interesting.

So we have the Moon at 22 degrees, Venus at 22 degrees, Uranus at 22 degrees of Capricorn, which is actually the same point that it starts during the pandemic. So there's this 22 that I'm sort of like planting the seed of because we're actually going to see it continue to unfold through all of these charts.

Okay.

And like for anyone listening, when they're looking at their chart and like, I have 22

degrees in

my chart, it's like, this doesn't necessarily mean that you are a killer or that you are going to be at the forefront of an upcoming attack.

Doesn't mean you're not busy.

It doesn't mean you're not busy. Not Martin Sage, just saying. Right. Don't rest. Yeah. You never know what's around the corner. Keep one eye open. Yeah. Stay vigilant. Yes, stay vigilant. There are certain degrees in astrology that have certain energy associated with them.

Oh, see, I didn't know that.

Yes.

That's interesting.

Yes. And it would seem to me that there's definitely a lot of pressure around this 22-degree point.

Because it's ending the cycle, you think? Or nearing the end of a cycle?

It seems to me like— I mean, in numerology, 22 is considered to be one of these, like, master numbers where it has like a certain vibration around it, this repeating number sort of energy.

Right.

And it— I think that maybe it's— there's this, you know, each degree has sort of a different story. 29 is the anaretic degree. It's the end of the cycle.

Yeah.

22 feels like it is almost like a point of— it's like a climax point.

Okay.

You know, it's like a point where things pop off. Right. It's a point where things happen.

Yeah.

Yes. So we have this 22 number here, which we're going to see we're going to sort of be chased by throughout all of these. And I also wanted to flag that I noticed that the Sun and the South Node were conjunct this evening of this initial attack. I've also noticed that the South Node seems to be very, very present in charts of serial killers, and also in charts of attacks, and charts of like the nights that things happen, the big days for something.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, as a someone who has a Sun-South Node conjunction in my own chart, like, I can attest to the fact that, like, we can have drama without murder. But there are just things that have a certain intensity to them, and this is one of them.

Interesting.

So August 13th, we have this first attack. About a month later, there is this second attack, which is Concetta and Joseph Rizzetto, Mm-hmm. And entering through an unlatched kitchen window.

Oh, latch your windows!

This is another case of a meat cleaver. Both survive, though they are disfigured from this. Joseph is blind in one eye. We see this continuation of this Uranus-Neptune opposition here. Again, this only happens every 170 years. So it's not going to happen again until 2080. I don't even know. That's a big damn. Yeah. Like, I mean, so we're out.

Or we're not going to see the sun. I can't do quick math.

Yeah. Some of us might still be kicking. Others— Probably be long gone. Yeah, long gone.

We done did it, baby.

And there also is this interesting sort of like grand cross that's being formed here. between Jupiter, which is in Libra at this time, cardinal activation. So there's a lot of energy, but we don't get into some of the deeper signatures of the Axeman himself until we get into the history. Like, we go through time and the chronology a little bit more.

Okay.

Really, the— we actually, the next year, June 27th, 1911, we have another attack. This one is on Joseph and Mary, we know them. Those are—

We sure do.

Those are historical figures.

Joseph and Mary, you said?

Joseph and Mary. Mary is actually pregnant in this too.

Whoa.

She's a 16-year-old pregnant woman. She survives. Joseph does not. But it's interesting because even these attacks, like, these are being referred to as the Cleaver Attacks, and they're sort of erratic. You know, it's— we have 1910s, we have a 1911. And then in 1912, it's Tony and Joanna Sciambra. And this is a very, very important one because this is similarly, you know, in their sleep, comes in at night, but this is with a gun. Ooh. So, whoever does this shoots them both at close range while they are asleep— while they're sleeping. These two, also Italian grocers, successful merchants. And this one is definitely sort of flagged as, like, was this mafia-related? Is this something that has to do with, like, an extortion gone wrong?

Yep.

It gives more of those vibes.

It does.

But this story actually ends up coming back around in The Axeman because this is Mrs. Toni.

Yep.

And this becomes sort of like the only time that we see the proper Axeman himself give a nod to any of these earlier attacks.

Yeah.

But what do you guys think of these? We actually have a final one. Anna Andolina, uh, is that same year of— or no, many years later comes back around. Like, what do you think about these sort of, like, erratic earlier attacks from almost a decade before?

It feels like it could be, like, him trying it out and, like, Kind of just failing and trying and failing. Like, this feels like a trial and error kind of thing.

It definitely— it has that air to it, I would say. But at the same time, it was so violent back then that it could be unrelated.

It could just be a random—

But I don't know. There's something to it that feels connected.

It's because it's so frenzied and frenetic and not together that it feels like it could be him, just early him.

Yes.

You know,

and there's some— and we'll, we'll get into this more, but, you know, in what was going on, who was it, whodunit really, and like the mystery of it all, obviously there's different theories, right? There's the theory that it was mafia-related. There's also this theory of what was called the Black Hand.

Yeah.

Which was this extortion ring that was going on specifically targeting immigrants, Sicilian, Italian, successful merchants. And they were basically— they would say, like, they would leave letters and be like, shut it down, give us the money, or we'll kill you, we'll kill your family. It's just that they didn't really kill the families.

It was more of a threat.

Yeah, it was the threat. So, like, these are obviously very extreme versions of this. But with Tony and Joanna in particular, you know, these were— you know, they were very successful merchants. They were successful grocers. They were shot. which has a little bit more of an association with some of the other more organized violence that was going on.

Yeah, that's more mafia-coded.

But then with Anna Andolina, which is December 22nd, 1917, so we jump 5 years later.

Wow.

It's right before, like, the official action starts. The official beginning, yes.

It starts with a gun and it ends with an ax.

Interesting.

So what happens this night is—

That's the ultimate statement. It's almost like he found That's the

process, yes. Anna wakes up to see a shadowy figure over her husband, and he has a gun. And he basically said, holding a gun to her, is like, shut up or I'll kill you. I guess in the other hand has an ax, bashing the husband over the head with this ax.

Oh my God.

And— I

was like, dude, why do you need both? Yeah. An ax would shut me the hell up.

Yeah, seriously.

on the way out of this house after he's, like, bashed, doesn't take anything, but just, like, is threatening, right? Like, crazy. Whacks the 14-year-old who's in another room, strikes the 13-year-old in an arm, right? So, it's a 14-year-old gets bashed in the head, 13-year-old gets struck in the arm. Um, but this is the first case where we see what ends up becoming the signature entry of chiseling through the door.

Yeah. Like that bottom panel of the door.

Which is the scariest. thing ever. And the fact that there were some cases where people would wake up the next day and find their door chiseled in and it just, like, was not— it was too thick for the ax to get through.

Like, they tried to.

To know that you were that close to it.

That he was trying to get in. Oh,

I would leave the state.

And he would, like, go through the panel, right?

Yep. A panel. I'd leave the state.

It's crazy to me that in this— so this one was really notable to me.

Yeah.

Because this December 22nd, 1917, and we do have a time, which is a delight for all of us. 3:00 AM.

Oh, wow.

The witching hour.

Fantastic.

We have this switch happen where it almost feels like whoever is doing this finds their— Vibe. It's like they find their flow. Flow. They're getting their flow state.

Yes.

Because they had— they're maybe gonna do it like they did in 1912 with the gun, but then they're like, but I can do— I can make it even scarier.

Right.

And more terrifying.

Right.

Yeah.

by way of this blunt, sharp object, combo blunt and sharp.

Yeah.

And, like, switches in the midst of it. And then we never see a gun again. And then in the next attack, it's an Axeman attack.

Solely ax.

See, that feels— that feels like it right there. You never see the gun again.

It feels like, I found it.

Yeah.

And you don't really see missing items anymore or anything like that.

Because it's like he realized, like, I don't need to do that.

Yeah.

I could just—

I'm scary enough when I just bash their heads in.

Damn. So in this chart, we have some of the things that I'm going to end up— that really become notable for when this is like the crux of this, as this is really going on. So we have a South Node-Pluto conjunction. And again, the South Node is basically a past life. When we see the South Node and the North Node, which are triggered by eclipses, the South Node speaks to where we have come from, karma, destiny, like things that are sort of, you know, predate our existence. And it does give this sort of like dark supernatural tone to it, especially when it is working directly with Pluto. Pluto is the planet of the underworld.

Oh, damn.

So when Pluto is involved in a chart—

Death, death, death.

It's death, death, death.

Oh, shit.

So we have this. And so to me, I have goosebumps thinking about like, oh, whoever is doing this, like, Finds their freaky underworld signature in the process of this attack.

Which is so spot on for what seems to happen here.

Yes. Yes.

And it's almost like, like past, past him coming into, like, this new life. You know what I mean?

Totally. And, like, what was going on previously, you know, and we'll talk about some of the potential suspects for this. There really is just one name.

I was gonna say, there's really not a lot.

Yeah.

And I— It's a strong theory.

It is pretty strong.

The mafia connection I find interesting. I do think it's a possible mafia connection, but also like a very deeply mentally ill person.

I think this is it.

Yeah.

I think that this is somebody who was like perhaps like conspiratorial.

Yes.

Wrapped up in this. And then like vigilante is like, I can take—

yes.

Like, you think you've sent threatening letters? Like, what if we send threatening murders?

You know? Yeah. When you were saying like threatening letters, like, you know, we're going to kill your whole family, but we don't because we've scared you. It's almost like the one person who was involved in this that took it too far.

Took it too far.

And like took it—

That actually did the thing.

All the way. Yeah. When that was not actually the plan.

No. And it was like not required even.

No. They were like, you did way too much.

Yeah. Like to be a criminal in this organization, like you didn't need to go that far.

You did the most.

Yeah.

This didn't need to be done.

You did the most. Yeah. And it seems like there's, you know, there's this erratic nature to it where like you couldn't say, you know, their first 2 are a month apart. Spooky, right? But then the next one is a year later. Then we have another one that's a year after that. So, there's enough of this sort of erratic timeline that it's not back to back, so people can start to sort of relax...

And distance.

...forget.

Get them away from it.

And then it comes back around again.

Yeah.

So, until it all starts to come— until it is in a quicker— what is the word that I'm looking for? Succession. Succession, yes.

Well, and the interesting thing too is that he actually went to prison for— I think it was at the end of 1911. Like, this main suspect here, it's, um, his real name was Frank Doc Mumfrey, but he went by the alias of Joseph Mumfrey. So he may have been sent to prison, but then in the summer of 1918, when everything started back up again, he was paroled. So it really is—

Feels pretty— Kind of perfect.

Lined up. It really does line up. And that only then speaks to those first attacks being legitimately him.

Yeah.

Like, legitimately, that's been warm-up.

Yeah.

I have to say, his chart— dun dun dun!

Oh, here he

is. It fits into the attacks in such a fascinating way.

Yeah.

Including the fact that he has that 22-degree signature in his chart, obviously.

Oh, okay. I'm so interested by that. I know.

I'm very intrigued. It's a more recent discovery that I've had. Yeah. And it's like one of those where I'm like, This again?

Yeah.

Like, a pattern recognition bitch can't unsee it, you know?

Yeah, you cannot see that.

Well, and astrology is all about patterns. Yeah.

Exactly. So this suspect, you know, is— there's obviously some sort of, you know, this is not verified, right? But what we have for a birthday for them is November 1st, 1875, which puts them as a Scorpio Sun with a conjunction to Jupiter in Scorpio. So lots of Scorpio energy here. And most significantly, this chart for the attack on December 22nd, 1917 is a Scorpio rising. So this is very much the energy of like, oh, I'm locked in.

I'm called to this.

And I found it. I found that thing that I'm doing.

And Jupiter's only going to expand on all that spooky, scary energy.

Yes.

Jupiter expands.

This is so fun to sit between both of you right now. I'm like, yeah.

Yeah.

This is the students and then the real deal.

Yeah, this is very interesting.

Another spooky thing in this Anna Andolina chart and this attack where I think that it is Frank Mumfrey who finds his way is that we were coming into a Neptune— a Saturn-Neptune conjunction at this time. This only happens every 36 years. We just had one this year.

Yeah.

Oh!

So one of the signatures of 2026 is a Saturn-Neptune conjunction in Aries. There was a Saturn-Neptune conjunction happening at this time here too. That's

interesting.

Also in a fire sign, in Leo. This was happening in Leo. So there is this sort of, like, drama, intensity, pay attention to me. Like, I need you to focus. Theatrics. Theatrics. Like, it's really about the sort of the dramatics of it. And I think that this is also what this person— Which is 2026 as well. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think that this is also what our suspect is finding himself sort of, like, getting titillated by here.

Yeah.

More so than the other ones, is like, oh, I can chisel out this panel. I can leave a signature. I can scare all of these people. I don't even have to necessarily kill in order to be the scariest one.

Yeah.

Because we're gonna see what happens when he kills and then doesn't kill in these subsequent attacks too.

Ooh.

So then we have a Spanish flu rolling in.

Ah! Here it comes.

Here comes the influenza.

Here it comes. Great.

March 4th, 1918. We are coming into an exact Neptune-Saturn conjunction at this time.

Woof.

Neptune is at 4 degrees. Saturn is at 8 degrees. They're retrograde, so they're going backwards and forwards here.

No, dang.

But, like, we very much have that tone of things are changing. Neptune is very much associated with, like, illusion and delusion, also with sickness. You know, Neptune is both, like, mental health, but it's also physical health. So we have this sort of, like, you know, what's coming around is this sort of foggy, shadowy mist sweeping over.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yes. And I think that, you know, and Neptune is one of the things that we saw in Jack the Ripper too, a very active Neptune, which is like, another sort of like mystery and like it's elusive and there's death, right? Pluto is making an inconjunct to them. It's at 3 degrees of Cancer, so it's kind of like waiting in the wings, being activated in its own way as well. But most importantly, all of this is happening during Pisces season, and Pisces is ruled by Neptune.

And super, super dreamy, but also delusions, addictions, mental health issues.

Yes. Oh!

Yeah.

And just like it did in 2020, this all started unraveling during Pisces season.

Oh, damn.

It doesn't change the fact that when we have this first flu outbreak, it's March 11th, 1918, which is— in fact, we can fact-check this, but it is the day that the pandemic is declared.

Yes, you're correct.

Which is crazy.

That is crazy.

Crazy.

Yeah.

So Neptune, the Saturn-Neptune conjunction is the main signature of this, but The Sun is— on this day, March 11th, 1918, we have a New Moon in Pisces. It's giving, something is really wrong.

And pay attention.

Something—

pay attention. On this day, we had 100 people sickened before noon, and this is when we know that this is not contained. This is not going well.

Yeah.

So this is in the backdrop of the Axeman at this time. Fantastic. On May 23rd, 1918, we have the attack, which is really the first Axeman attack. My notes on this are plentiful. On Joseph and Catherine Maggio, May 23rd. So this is a Gemini season attack.

Which is chaotic.

Chaotic in its own right, yes. They were living— they— grocers lived above a grocery store. The bottom panel was knocked out with a chisel, and that is how this person came in and entered their home. This was an attack where we have, like, both are murdered, first of all. Throats were slit.

Yeah, she was almost decapitated, wasn't she?

Yes. This is one of the most brutal murders.

Of all.

Of all. We also have no looting. No, nothing was stolen. Everything was totally intact.

And there were jewels, money, all in plain sight right there.

The ax was found. There were bloody clothes on the scene from the murder. And significantly, chalk outside said, Miss Maggio will sit up tonight like Mrs. Toni.

That's so spooky.

So spooky.

Connected.

And this is— I have goosebumps, but this is— a direct reference to the attack that had happened with guns.

Yep.

And the only time that people—

This is essentially saying, I'm back.

Yeah.

Yes, I'm back. And, and this is crazy because, you know, people are like, could it be the same person? That was with guns. This is with an ax. But they're directly alluding to it. Yeah.

People change.

People change. Methods all the time. People grow.

Yeah.

Right.

And some of them don't like— I think people think that serial killers always have one thing that they do. That's not always the case.

No, a lot of times it is evolution.

Like, look at the Night Stalker. Like, he did tons of different things. Like, it's like there's so many of them that they just take what's in front of them and will do whatever.

Night Stalker, Pisces, double Pisces.

Yeah.

With that, with a 22 signature. Yes.

Oh my God.

But we need to figure out the 22 of it all. This is going to keep me up.

I know, I know, I know. It's the significance.

Yeah.

Yeah. So this is, this is such an interesting allusion because it almost feels to me like, hey, I am— it's like saying I'm the same person, right? You know, like, I know about what happened back in 1912,

right?

It's 1918 now. Like, I'm making a direct reference. Also, keep in mind, that was May 16th, 1912. This was May 23rd, 1918.

Very close.

So it was like, hey, like, let me lay this out for you. People are like, duh, could it be the same person?

Right?

Well, I don't know.

Also the sit up like Mrs. Toni. I'm like, that is chilling. Chilling.

So I did a little looky-loo into it.

Yeah.

And what it is believed that that is a reference to is that a traditional wake or funeral, um, before the night before this, you know, a funeral, there was a sort of a ceremonial practice of having your own private vigil where the corpse would be on display and, like, propped up.

Set up, yep.

Yeah. And this was something that would only be— take place sort of, like, in, you know, the privacy of a family.

Right.

Yeah, that makes sense.

But it was something that was known within, especially Italian communities at this time.

That makes so much sense now.

So, it also is giving, this is coming from inside, like, the call is coming from inside the house.

Yeah, absolutely it is.

So, maybe that's— you know, obviously we have all of these Italian Americans who were the victims here, and there was thinking of like, this is a racist person who was going after these. But this could also be somebody who is within

the

culture.

Is within the community.

Yes. And this is a case where at first they were like, Mrs. Toni? Like, who the hell is Mrs. Toni? No one had died recently of Mrs. Toni, but people in the neighborhood knew that Joanna was referred to as Mrs. Tony by customers.

Oh.

And that gives full-blown mafia right there.

That really does.

So, this is someone who it's like, oh, I know this— They're very close at the— Yes. I know— I knew this person.

Yes.

So, they're either in— I would say they're either in that community, or they are someone who, like, has very close ties to that community, like, is within it at times.

And is maybe monitoring it.

But not necessarily, like, an Italian American themselves.

Yes.

Could be— it could be either. Yeah.

Yes. So, and it's somebody who was very aware of the impact and loss from these earlier deaths.

Yep.

It was someone who was like, oh, like, here's a little reference point. Remember how you lost a beloved community member?

Don't forget.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Here's another loss.

That was me.

Which is so, so eerie, so diabolical. We have another South Node active in this chart. It's at 22 degrees.

Spooky.

South Node, 22 degrees of Gemini. It's making a conjunction to Jupiter in Gemini at 18 degrees.

Expanding that spooky energy.

Expanding the spooky energy. And then Saturn, Neptune are still conjunct, still adding this backdrop. Saturn is the original— like, Pluto is a Grim Reaper. Pluto is death. Saturn is the OG death.

The Grim Reaper. Yes.

Yeah. In yore, our ancient astronomers did not, you know, before the telescope, And it's the Pluto. We only believed that Saturn was the final planet in the solar system. It was the outer limit. So Saturn is death just because it's like, that's the end of the line. And Saturn is represented as the, you know, the collection of the harvest. So we have the scythe, we have this sort of like, we're reaping what we sow here. And the Grim Reaper aesthetically was modeled after Saturn. And the archetypes of Saturn. That's my planet.

That's your ruler, yeah.

That's my planet. It's your 12th ruler.

Yeah. Me too. Rules with an iron fist. We were born the same year.

Yeah.

Yeah, rules with an iron fist.

Yeah, literally. There you go.

Yeah.

So there's definitely this sort of haunted, spooky, death-coded chart That was going on the night of this. Not to mention, it is a Scorpio moon that night. So, we have this callback to potentially our suspect being once again activated. Scorpio code. Yes. So, yeah. So, this is the first Axeman murder they say officially.

Like, officially on the books.

They say official. Even though it's like, hello, he's clearly—

Clearly, he's calling back to another murder that he clearly committed.

Yes. And he wants you to know he's back. And it feels like very much, and maybe this is because we have the flu coming in at this time, we also are still in the throes of World War I at this time. Yeah. There's

a lot going on.

Yeah, a lot going on.

Not just a few things.

And the drama of it, the Leo of it, is kind of like, hey, knock, knock, pay attention. Did you forget me? And people were like, yeah, that's scary, but also like—

All of this. Suggestures broadly. Look at the rats.

So, um, the next month, we have another attack. And this is the attack on Lewis and Harriet Lowe. Uh, this is— this is the mistress.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

So, this is an interesting one because we have a story here of after this attack, um, they both had initially survived. And Harriet, the mistress, keeps changing her story. around who she believes had done it. At first, she's like, it's the neighbors. Then she's like, actually, it's the person I was having an affair with. It's the person who was sleeping next to me.

Oh my God.

Which is also like, but wait, he bashed his own head.

Yeah, like he bashed his own head.

The police failed to understand that one.

Yeah.

But it's also really sad because she ends up, you know, she's very disfigured. She has like this horrible, you know, she's been attacked by an ax. And she has surgery the next year, which is— does— is a disaster. She ends up dying as a result of the surgery.

So sad.

So, like, she is a victim, you know, she is a fatality, I should say, from that.

Absolutely.

It's just not immediate.

Yeah.

Yep.

And in this chart, we have, again, we're still seeing that signature of Saturn and Neptune, and we start to get closer to what ends up becoming among the spookiest, ookiest signatures of them all, which is the Jupiter-Pluto conjunction.

Yeah.

Which, when we were talking about this case, you were like, is that a Jupiter-Pluto conjunction I saw?

Yep. It was.

Yes. Yes.

Fun! Oh, no!

Jupiter, the planet of expansion. Pluto, the planet of death. When these two come together, it's

not really a party.

I was just gonna say, it's a party? Yeah. It's party time?

Oh my God!

Some kind of party.

Well, I do have my chart. I love Jupiter as Casino Daddy. Very lovingly.

Casino Daddy.

I love that.

I love for us to imagine. I love, you know, one day I'm going to like personify all of these planets. I'll cast them all.

Oh my God. Hell yeah. Please do a one-woman show. Yeah. Please.

But I love the idea of like, imagine Jupiter as, you know, you go to a casino and you see someone like Hawaiian shirt, tufts of hair, gold chains, sunglasses on.

That's Jupiter. Smoking a cig.

Smoking a cig. Like ladies on either arm, rolling it down. And then you're like, this— wow, like, what a scene. But you're also like, kind of smelly. Has he ever— like, when was the last time he showered?

What's going on there?

Like, does he even know what day it is?

Is he living like Jack Nicholson in, um, what is that movie? Uh, Witches of Eastwick.

100%. Yes, 100%. And I do have a new working theory that you can always tell someone who has— specifically a man, I've been testing this theory with someone with Sag in their Sun, Moon, or Rising because they love Hawaiian shirts. So go back through your social roster and see any Hawaiian shirt.

Here's the thing. I kind of love a Hawaiian shirt and I am a Sag Rising. I don't wear them, but I can appreciate them. The one that I wore when I was a dad on Listener Tales, I fucking loved that shirt.

So share with us, like, what is— as a Sag Rising, like, what is your draw to a Hawaiian shirt?

It's just outrageous.

This is it.

It's just—

This is my working theory.

Yes.

I say that it is the— Sags can't resist the intersection of like kitchen Vegas.

Yes. Wow. Yes.

Yeah, it's irresistible.

That's actually wild.

Because my style sometimes, I fully can admit, is a little tacky. And I like, I fall into that. And they do say you're supposed to dress as your rising.

Yes.

So

damn.

Yeah. It's interesting. It's a little kitschy Vegas. Yeah.

And my rising's a Virgo. I got to look that up.

But it makes sense because you're drawn to like dark academia kind of looks.

Oh, so that's so true, right? That's so true.

What is your rising again?

Unfortunately, it's Capricorn rising, and this is why like I can't seem to escape.

That's not your style.

I can't escape business casual.

Yeah, but I feel like you, you have like a fun, funky way of dressing.

Thanks. You know, it's— but if I see a blazer, oh, I lock in so hard.

You can't ever get me away from a blazer.

I love a blazer. A blazer doesn't work on me though.

I will

I am like haunted by a blazer.

I have so many blazers.

It is

disgusting.

You are a Capricorn sun with a Virgo rising. Of course.

Blazers are—

you are a blazer.

I was born in a blazer. I so strongly relate to that. Yes, I was. I feel like I can't— it is like every time I get dressed, it is like I look in the closet and I am like, is it blazer? No, put it back.

It is not a blazer day. I hate it.

But it really does. A blazer hates to see me coming because it knows that it's about to get rocked.

Iconic. I think I was born in a Hawaiian shirt and a feather boa.

Yes,

I think that— Oh my God, take

me

there. Take me to that room, that hospital bed.

I love it. But circling back, so Jupiter—

So Jupiter is ruled by— so Sag is ruled by Jupiter. So that is the correlation of Sag and Jupiter. So Jupiter is a go big, go home. So wherever it goes, it's more, more, more. It's excess. So when Jupiter is on Pluto, it's more, more, more excess.

Death.

Death.

Death.

And destruction.

Yes.

Yeah.

And that becomes, in addition to Saturn and Neptune, which is still going on through this whole time because it's a very long, slow-moving transit. Generational. Yes. We have then also Jupiter and Pluto coming into the mix.

Okay.

So here we have this attack, and we get into this sort of frenzy of like, who does it? Oh, we also have the South Node at 22 degrees, of course. Why wouldn't we?

Why not?

Why not? Making a conjunction to Jupiter.

Wow.

Yeah, I know. It's crazy. This 22 is wild.

What does it mean?

It means something is amiss. Simply something is amiss. So then in August, we have another attack, and this one is on Anna Schneider.

Oh, yeah.

She's pregnant. She wakes up to a figure looming above her. Her ax, she'll later find, has gone missing. We have this Jupiter-Pluto conjunction getting stronger and stronger by this point. Jupiter is at 4 degrees, Pluto is at 5. They're coming together. Mars is obviously at 22 degrees because why wouldn't it be in a chart?

And Mars is like war, like male energy, like—

Oh, dang.

Kind of toxic.

Oh, no.

In this case, I'm saying.

Yes, 100%. Yes. I mean, like, all of these things are sort of like, oh, you want to see the worst example of these planets coming together?

Yeah, they're definitely at their faults here.

Damn.

They're

in their flop era.

Yes, they're in their flop era. They're not exalted. No. So this is when— so she survives. She actually has her baby 2 days later. Yeah, God.

Horrifying to me.

And these signatures, this Jupiter-Pluto conjunction that we're moving to, also was going on in 2020, which is nuts.

Hate that.

Yeah. So that is another one of those interesting signatures because remember—

There's a pandemic.

There's a pandemic happening here. Like, through this time, we also have this this other horror that's happening, especially to New Orleans.

Right.

Which is that as we are getting deeper and deeper into this 1918, 1919, it's like New Orleans is getting more and more sort of like the onslaught.

And the death toll is only rising between these murders and the pandemic.

Yeah.

Yes.

Like coinciding.

Yeah. This is like plague era. It is. You know? The amount of death.

Yeah.

A few days later, August 10th, Joseph Romano.

Just 5 days later.

Yes. So this is like, we've really heated up now.

Yeah. He's not even taking a breath.

And he's an 80-year-old, by the way. I know. Joseph Romano.

I know, that kills me.

Yeah. So Joseph Romano, an 80-year-old, lived with his nieces who heard this happening. They saw the attacker and described him as dark, tall, heavyset, black suit, Slouch hat.

Spooky as fuck.

That's interesting.

Spooky as fuck. Honestly, I just picture the— I can't think of his name, but he played the Axeman in American Horror Story.

Oh, yeah.

His whole getup there. It's totally personified.

Does he have a slouch hat?

I can't remember if he has a slouch hat, but he's got that, like, swanky man kind of vibe.

Well, I was looking up, like, what is a slouch hat and is it coming back around in style? Like, is it going to be the new fedora? I fear it won't. These are— but you know, but you'll know the hats.

I'm looking it up.

They're wide-brimmed felt hats, and they are very functional. They were worn by people who worked outdoors a lot because they provided good, like, shade protection.

Okay.

So like a little floppier than a fedora. Yes.

They also were worn by people like vets wore them, people who were— who had been in the military.

Yeah.

So they had this very sort of like functional quality to them, which is giving more working class than a top hat. And I don't know if Jack the Ripper, for example, like, you know, I feel like when we— do we have— do we know what he was wearing or is it mostly just through like the mythology?

I think it's a lot more.

Yeah.

So we really don't know what he was wearing.

Because I feel like when I think of Jack the Ripper, I'm thinking that like

the gentleman

and the top hat.

Yeah.

Here we have an instance of an actual hat being cited, but it is functional over fabulous. Yeah.

He wasn't wearing a slouch hat in American Horror Story.

No.

It is the same guy that played Marlowe in 30 Days of Night, though. I didn't know if you knew that. It is.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. Yeah, he's great. He's so good-looking.

So, after this attack, you know, we have all of the signatures, we have the chiseled door, we have the ax

left. Oh,

I hate that. Um, we have a full-blown manhunt that goes on where we're like, this has gone too far. Finally. I mean, look at all of these incidents. And finally they're like, we gotta do something.

We should stop this.

Which is also like, stop this man. Yeah. Like, what are you doing? This is enough. This has been going on since 1910 at this point.

Exactly.

Like, you guys are just gonna let this happen?

We're just gonna let people chisel people's back door open?

He's coming into my house.

Right.

Well, he doesn't kill me, he's gonna kill me with— we're gonna infect each other.

He's coughing on me, bashing my head in.

Spreading shit around.

It is so interesting to me that there is a pandemic going on and he doesn't give a fuck.

Because that was actually one of the things during the COVID pandemic that people were joking about. They were like, oh, there's gonna be so much less crime because no one wants to go into someone's house right now. Like, no one wants to get sick, COVID's so scary. But this guy just didn't give a fuck.

Which honestly does, like, almost solidify my belief that there is a level of mental illness here that is just not computing.

Because you feel like most of— mostly people would be like, yeah, I don't want to die of an illness.

He's not even taking anything.

Not even considering.

He's not taking anything. He's just going in for the hell of it. Just to do this. Just to do this freaky shit.

And bashing people's heads open. I mean, I remember when, like, during COVID you had to wear insane amounts of PPE because it's like bloodborne.

Oh yeah. Like when I would do autopsies during the pandemic, we were in literal biohazard full PPE.

You were doing autopsies during the pandemic?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Raspberry autopsies. It was crazy.

We were in so many levels of PPE. It looked like we were a bomb squad. It was insane.

Yeah.

Whoa.

You would come home and you'd still have a face shield imprinted on your face.

Like marks in my face. Yeah.

Wow.

And you think about this guy and he's going in and obviously he's getting covered in blood.

Nobody's saying he's wearing a mask either.

No one says that.

Yeah.

He's wearing, like— that's the other thing. He's wearing, like, suits and, you know, bloody clothes are found. It's just—

He doesn't give a fuck.

He doesn't have any regard.

And he started in 1910. He started before this.

Yeah.

And to me, like, I think we talked about this with Jack the Ripper too, where there almost get, like, becomes this crescendo of, like, catch me, fucking catch me, catch me, catch me. Like, what the fuck are you guys doing?

Let me get more friends. Exactly.

Like, it's— and it's this, like, push and pull between obviously not wanting to actually stop because you have bloodlust and you're psychotic.

You just can't.

Yes, but also, like, you don't want to be ignored.

Yep.

Like, you're making enough of a scene. You want credit. Yeah, you want credit, you want the frenzy, you want the drama, you want, like, the sort of— you want a little attention.

Well, that's where we got the letter.

Yes.

They always were leading up to it.

Yes. So, after this attack, there was this manhunt. And then I— this was something when I listened back, and it's also crazy because this episode that you guys did when you first covered this was in 2018. And this was— we're talking about 1918. So when I kept doing my notes, I was like, I'd write 18 and then I was like, 18, 19, 18, 2018. I'm like, which year? Which year?

What am I forgetting to say?

Yeah. So in— so you had mentioned this in the— when you guys first covered this in 2018, but apparently the next day there was a sighting of this killer masquerading as a woman walking around town. But like, what? Yeah. Like, you know, so you know who the killer is, right? You also know when the killer's in drag. Like, wait a minute, then who is that?

Maybe we could arrest them then?

Yeah. Could we maybe stop them?

I don't know. I mean, like, you're just, like, titillated by this. So my friend's like, it's a killer, but it's also a lady.

But it'd be kind of fun.

Yeah, right.

People were just losing their shit.

Losing it.

Yeah. We also then the same day, there's a person who finds the ax and a chisel outside of their door.

Can you imagine?

No. Knowing that you were that close to having your head bashed in by a madman.

Yeah.

I'd leave the state.

Yeah. I would never sleep again.

And this was the incident where they were like, oh, it's actually, uh, too thick for the chisel. So like they started and then they were like, I give up.

Yeah.

I'd be so happy that I picked that door.

Oh, I would buy— fabulous. Give me 14 more of them.

Give me all the doors.

Give me 14 of them.

Yeah. This was a great day for, uh, for doors.

That door.

A great day. A great day for the door business.

Yes. That store was like, come here.

Yeah.

We got 'em.

We've got the door for you.

Yep.

So on this day of this attack on Joseph Romano, who did die, we have sort of like the essence of a lot of these signatures that we've been tracking. We have Jupiter and Pluto in a very, very close conjunction. We have the Sun in Leo, 16 degrees, conjunct Saturn, that original Grim Reaper, and also Neptune all in Leo. So to me, this makes sense that we also find this sort of like like frenzy around this of, I'm gonna, like, I'm going on a spree.

Look at me.

I'm going on a spree. Look at me. Catch me if you can. You can't catch me. Yeah. And continuously through this month of August, we see more and more of these examples of like, he tried to come in, there was something that blocked. The door was chiseled. No one was home. There was an ax on the steps. There

was a lot of these.

There was, there was a, in one case, there was a, tomatoes that were blocking the door so he couldn't come in.

Yep.

Which is also really interesting because if this is all the same person, back in the day, back in the old days, he did come in in other ways. He wouldn't come in there, like, a locked door. He would come in through a window.

Yep.

So why is now he's like, if I can't make a little hole, I'm not coming?

And I think it's because he's so connected to this signature now.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're right.

Like, I think before he was so— he was fine with willy-nilly, and then he's like, this is my thing.

This is who I am.

If I can't come in that way, then it's not me, and maybe they won't know it's me.

Yes.

And they need to know it's me. Yep. So, he has to get in that same way.

And maybe I won't get credit for it.

I won't get the credit for this one if I enter a different way.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, this is the story of somebody who really wants to be known as the type of serial killer that he is.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know? And we're gonna get to the letter shortly. We're coming up on it, which is obviously one of the most iconic parts of this story for so many reasons. Oh, yeah.

Yes.

Um, but it also, you know, it's like, if this is the same person who started to— who took, you know, this extortion a little too far, and then was, like, killing when he could have just threatened, and then was shooting, and then realized, like, I can make it even scarier if I use an ax, and I can make it even scarier if I chisel my way in, then this is also someone who is, like, I only am going to approach it through this sort of codified, haunted, spooky way.

Yes.

And I think that this killer knew, like, and aspired to be Jack the Ripper.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that he was— he knew that story.

I can see that.

And wanted to become the next Jack the Ripper.

I could totally see that.

It totally makes sense.

Because the letters have such a similar energy about them. Like—

Like, I come from hell.

Yeah, essentially. Essentially. And I'm a demon, and catch me if you can. if you can.

And they're a little— they're like kind of cheeky at times.

They're very cheeky.

Like, you know, so it— I feel like I could— and he knew Jack the Ripper found a signature and stuck with it.

Yeah. Stuck with it. Really consistency.

Yeah.

You need that if you're going to really leave your mark.

Until that, like, grand finale with Mary Kelly. Like, that was really the only time he deviated.

And I think he just thought he found his calling, so he could not— he could not deviate because this is the calling.

Yeah.

And if this is a person who already is, like, mentally ill to begin with and beginning this process of, like, oh, I'm gonna just kill instead of threaten.

It's a ritual.

Yes. Then, like, they— it also shows how they sort of completely divorce this original idea of, like—

Oh, yeah.

And by the end of this, like, we aren't targeting Italian grocers anymore.

No, we're just getting whoever we can get in LA.

We completely lost the plot.

Yeah.

It starts as one thing and then completely sort of, like, morphs into another.

Yeah. Snowballs.

So then things are quiet for a little bit, which is also so odd, is that we have these, like, seasons of this— these attacks. Yeah.

I almost wonder if he was either discouraged or nervous with the amount of times that he couldn't. I almost saw it as a sign, like, with the amount of times he wasn't able to get through. You know?

Yeah. I mean, if we're being honest, not to say that we want to have a perfect score of tallies, but he does not have a great

No, it's half, essentially. There's 12 attacks and 6 kills.

And if he's in New Orleans, if he's from New Orleans, if he grew up there, he might take that stuff more spiritually as a sign that, like, I need to take a step back.

I think that's such a good point.

It feels like that's so in the culture and so in where he grew up, if he grew up there, that that would be something that he might take into account.

And I think that links itself so much to the fact that he thinks he's a good guy. He's a specter.

Yeah. Because he's not of this mortal realm. Yes. Kind of thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, he could also be going into these fugue states where he's in this sort of hypnotic space of this.

Which is very Neptune.

Very Neptune. Very, very Neptune. And it also, it's like this— I mean, I feel like there are some murderers through time where they'll take time off.

Oh, for sure. Look at BTK.

I was just going to say this exact word.

Took like 30 years off.

Yeah. And then you go back to your normal life and you return to whatever it is that you're doing.

He could have got a job. Somehow you just bury that desire.

I mean, he could have got a job. He could have got a family. He could have started dating someone. He could have gotten sick.

Yep.

Something kept him from focusing on it.

It wasn't a super long time though. No. Long enough where it's weird, but—

Well, back in March now, 1919, because we're keep playing with these same times, which is so bizarre.

Astrologically, really strange.

March 9th, 1919. We have a case of Charles and Rosie, and this one is really, really sad. This is, you know, we have— what's interesting before I say why it is incredibly sad is that this case actually evokes the very, very first one that happened. astrologically. With Harriet and August back in 1910, we had that Uranus-Neptune opposition. In this case, we have a Saturn-Uranus opposition.

Interesting.

So it kind of like— it's like we're back in— you know, there are these patterns that keep emerging that it seems like he keeps striking at the epicenter of these different astrological signatures. Okay, this is a departure for a second, but I have to share it before I forget. So in the 1980s, there was this study that came out, and it was called something sensational like The Moon Was Full and Nobody Noticed. And the point of it was, it was this British scientist who basically said, people are not affected by the moon, and I'm going to prove it. And when I first started studying astrology, this was basically the only study around that that was circulating. And it was like, you know, I did not— who likes a study like this? I am like, nobody knows that there is a movie. Yeah, boo. Like, this is crazy. I had a weird feeling about it. It felt like it was a little pointed. It had like some statement it was trying to make. So I knew about it. And then recently when I was doing an episode for Astrology Tea on the Moon and the Moon phases, I was like, oh, I wonder what is going on, like if there is any other studies.

It turns out that from the time that I started to practice astrology to now, That study has now been challenged many, many times over.

As it should be.

Yes. And they are like, this person had an agenda. They were misogynistic. It felt like that right from the beginning.

It feels misogynistic from the get-go.

Yes, exactly.

But I understand that. You know intuitively, in the same way that you know intuitively that the moon affects people.

And the moon is mother.

And the moon is mother. And in the hospitals, they always, doctors and nurses and attendees will always say, he or she is crazy on a full moon. And like, sure, it's anecdotal, but it's also like our anecdotal experiences also are our lived experience.

It's also scientific. We're 80% water, like mostly. And then the moon controls the tides. Right.

I mean, you don't have to— like, you don't have to continue to extrapolate on the rest of astrology just to verify the fact that the moon obviously is going to affect us as humans. Very much so. We're animals.

Yeah.

We have a different response. All animals respond to the moon differently. Of course. Hunting is different on a full moon than a new moon. Duh. So the reason I bring it up is to say that in these new round of studies that have come out, they have found that the moon in particular with people with different types of chemical, sort of people with different types of like chemistry in their brain, people who are bipolar, people who have schizophrenia, people who have these different conditions are more affected by the moon.

That makes sense. That makes sense.

Than others, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And to me, this is so interesting because it also is very much like, oh, what can we learn by studying the way that different people's chemistry functions than just sort of being like, we can't look at them, we have to other them and like not pay any attention to people who are different than us. Right. But actually, if we change our perspective and learn from people who have different chemistry than we do, we are probably going to find like incredible things about nature, the interconnectivity of like how brains work. It's for everyone's good. How brains work in general. So, I say all of that to say that this is, you know, perhaps our suspect here was also very much affected by seasons, by tidal changes, by astrological shifts that were happening. Because as these things were sort of like ebbing and flowing and swelling and changing, he was also going through these different—

Like these phases, frenzies.

Yeah. Peaks and valleys of his own energy, his energetics, right?

That's really fascinating.

That is.

So, in this attack on Charles and Rosie, this very sad one, Rose awoke— Rose wakes up to her husband fighting with an intruder.

Mm-hmm.

She's holding her 18-month-old baby. and she's pleading with this murderer to, like, stop and to leave them alone and to go away, and he swings at them and kills the baby. And he— but both of the adults, Charles and Rosie, survive. So it is only the baby who dies in this case. Mm-hmm. And this is a very, you know, the chart for this is really intense. It's a Jupiter-Pluto conjunction, very, very close, 4 and 5 degrees, so very exact. We have that Saturn-Uranus opposition. Uranus is the planet that's associated with shocking things, unexpected things, things that come out of nowhere, things that are not planned. I do not believe he planned to kill this baby. I think that this was a casualty of this frenzied moment.

Like, just collateral damage.

Collateral damage. He was fighting with Charles. We've never heard of a physical altercation between him and someone else before. No, no.

That was unexpected.

Unexpected. I think that's the Uranus thing. Uranus of all of it. I think it just— there was something that, like, came out of nowhere, and it was right after this that he sends the letter. Yep. And I think that there is a direct correlation between this being in this, like, oh, shit.

Yeah.

I'm really evil now. Yeah. I've really done a lot. I've killed the baby. I am fully the devil.

Yeah.

Yeah. I killed a baby.

And he takes— he takes on the persona.

Takes it in stride.

In that letter. Yeah. Like, he's like, I am from hell.

He very much does.

So March 13th, when the Sun is at 22 degrees of Pisces, And Saturn is at 22 degrees of Leo. We have— Look at me, look at me. This letter, and it is incredibly iconic. I don't have it in front of me.

I do.

Oh my God, please read it.

Okay. Esteemed mortal, they have never caught me and they never will. They have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your Earth. I am not human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you Orleanians— is that how you say that? Orleanians?

I think so.

I think. And your foolish police call the Axeman. When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims. I alone know whom they shall be. I shall leave no clue except my bloody ax, besmeared with blood and brains of he whom I have sent below to keep me company. If you wish, you may tell the police to be careful not to rile me. Of course, I am a reasonable spirit.

Of course.

Are you?

As you've shown. Yeah. Yeah.

I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigation. In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but His Satanic Majesty, Francis, Joseph, etc. But tell them to beware. Let them not try to discover what I am, for it be better that they were never born than to incur the wrath of the Axeman. I don't think there is any need of such warning, for I feel sure the police will always dodge me as they have in the past. They're wise and know how to keep away from all harm. Undoubtedly, you Orleanians think of me as a most horrible murderer, which I am, but I could be much worse.

She fucking nailed it.

Yeah. I am.

Don't get it wrong.

Don't get it twisted.

She's not trying to claim anything else.

But I could be much worse if I wanted to be. If I wished, I could pay a visit to your city every night. At will, I could slay thousands of your best citizens, for I am in close relationship with the Angel of Death. Now, to be exact—

Name dropping.

Yeah.

He's like— A personal friend.

Just saying. Period.

Now, to be exact, In fact, at 12:15 earthly time—

My goodness.

On next Tuesday night, I am going to pass over New Orleans. In my infinite mercy, I am going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is. I am very fond of jazz music.

As all demons are.

And I swear by all the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in whose home a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well then. So much better for you people. One thing is certain, and that is some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday night, if there be any, will get the ax. Jazz it. Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartarus, and it is about time I leave your earthly home, I will cease my discourse, hoping that thou wilt publish this. That it may go well with thee. I have been, am, and will be the worst spirit that existed, either in fact or realm of Fancy

tea.

It's the— it's the jazz for me.

It's the jazz.

What? Like, what?

I'd also be— I wouldn't know what to do.

I would jazz it.

But it's like, is he setting you up?

Possibly.

Is he setting you up like, if— like, play jazz and I won't come to your house, and then he's gonna go around to all the places playing jazz and be like a double bluff?

Yeah. Yeah, that is actually fucking terrifying because

jazz is like loud. And like jazzy and jazzy. And it's like, that's scary. You're already scared. Now you're also drowning out sound. Drowning out sound.

Making it easier for him to savage you.

To approach and come in your house, which might be exactly what he was waiting for.

Valid.

I wouldn't know what to do.

Personally, I feel I would jazz it. I would take my, my odds into my hands.

I would play some light jazz.

No, but it has to be in full swing.

It'll be in full swing.

Full swing.

It'll just be quiet.

He said jazzy.

Jazz it soft.

Jazz it soft.

See, I would hear him coming though, because I'd have it light. And then when he comes in, jazz it up. And I'd be like, full swing, get up. You promised by all the devils.

To me, like, in like a, obviously a much higher stakes way, it's giving the Hocus Pocus scene where all of the parents can't stop dancing.

Yes.

Like, it has that sort of like, we're having fun.

Hahaha.

Like, everything's fine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or like in Widow's Bay, Sunset Cocktails with Patricia.

Yes.

I haven't seen Widow's Bay.

Oh my God, you have to.

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. You will love it. I know.

I feel like a Widow's Bay missionary. I'm just like running around telling everyone. Spreading the good word. Yes, I will continue spreading the good word.

I watched the entire series in one day.

We're rewatching it now.

I'm about to.

Oh, well, I'll hop on.

You gotta hop on. It's so good.

No, I've— I, I— it has everything that I—

Yeah. And the vibe of

it,

it's like a comforting, spooky, but really funny vibe too.

Oh my God, I'm excited. I'm excited. It's everything you want. What a wonderful thing to look forward to. Yes. Unlike—

Unlike this.

Unlike March 19th.

Yeah.

Well, 12:15 AM. Which I guess sort of worked out. Yeah. Many jazzed it.

Many jazzed it.

Many jazzed. No one died.

No one killed.

But like this, okay, so this letter to me is everything.

Yes.

It is, it is my everything.

There's so much to unpack.

Yeah. There's—

okay, so first of all, this is like, uh, proto-ChatGPT. Like, why are we so erudite in this? Like, why are we so academic in this letter?

And we float from like, from like a more modern speaking to like, thee, thou, thou shalt.

Yes.

And you're like, immediately.

And you're just like, wait a minute.

And it's like he's referencing like Greek mythology in it. Yep. Yeah. And he's pulling all of these like, you know, very highbrow, sophisticated.

It's, I'm smarter than you.

Yeah.

I'm smarter than you.

Going back to Tartarus.

Which is also like, okay, so then who is— is this really also who's doing the killings? Because, like, this is somebody who is definitely very well-educated, or at least can, like—

Yeah, 'cause they would have something to make this up.

Pull it together, like, whip it together for a very well-educated letter.

Right.

Yep.

And so maybe this is— I think there were some killings that were close to Tulane. Like, this could maybe— There were, yes.

Maybe

a

student.

Yeah, there has like a— maybe there's a university piece to it. Maybe it was a student, a professor, alumni. You know, now I'm just trying to— I'm trying to do the detective work here.

Yeah, I guess we have to solve this.

But it is like specifically, um, snobby, you know, and like very sort of like

very

elitist, highfalutin in its language, which is also, uh, you know, it's like that kind of changes the character of it. Not to mention, I mean, how do we even begin the jazz piece, right? The jazz piece is so bananas.

It comes out of left field.

And comes out of nowhere. No, there's not a single indication that we would find ourselves in a jazz moment.

Not even like, I wonder if he likes jazz. It was just like, let me tell you something.

There's no records left. There's no music playing. There's no other allusion to jazz happening. And then suddenly he's like, I love jazz.

He's like, get to know me. A little bit about me.

Yeah, a little bit about me. Like, do you guys think you know me? You don't. I love jazz.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is interesting.

I think that the— okay, so a few things that come to mind here. Okay, so first of all, like, the astrology of this letter. So the Sun at 22 degrees of Pisces, so 22 again, Pisces being the, uh, you know, the siren song. There's a direct correlation between music and Pisces things.

And Pisces is the arts.

Yes.

Oh, shit.

Pisces loves music.

That's interesting. Wow. Yeah.

Pisces energy is all about—

Whoa.

Yes.

That's weird.

It's like the most associated with, like, specifically music of any other zodiac sign. Interesting. And it's a lot of this has to do with, like, the mythology of it and, like, the mermaids singing the sailors into their demise. The siren songs. Yes. Hell yeah. Put the boys on the ships.

Let's get the boys on the ships.

We still have Pluto-Jupiter conjunction here, right? So that's loud going on, haunting, bigger, bigger death, more and more and more. But then the Moon and Saturn— Saturn also at 22, of course— the Moon and Saturn are conjunct in Leo. So we have those theatrics yet again, the drama, the razzle-dazzle.

Yeah. And the, I want to tell you something about myself.

Yes. And let me tell you—

Leo is the main character.

Main character.

That's even weirder.

It is weird.

That he's like, make it about me. Play some jazz. I love jazz.

So you may recall that my favorite thing of all time previously, my previous favorite thing was the Jack the Ripper letter. I could not get enough of it. I was like, this is—

It's insane.

I kind of— I need to unpack it all.

Yeah, I can't believe it's real. I can't believe it happened, no matter who it was from.

So I obviously had to pull the chart for that, and my jaw dropped.

Stop it, stop it. I'm so excited.

I'm excited.

I

love astrology. 22 Libra.

Stop it.

So that was October 15th, 1888, when the Sun was at 22. Libra.

And Libra, much like Leo, has a look at me, look at me energy.

Yes.

Main character energy.

Yes.

Main character energy.

The Moon was in Pisces for the Jack the Ripper letter. So we have a similar Pisces drop here. And at the time that I have for this chart for Jack the Ripper, 22 degrees Sag.

Stop.

What are the odds of that?

Yes.

Like, it's everywhere.

It's—

the 22 is very fucking weird.

I mean, it's—

I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night screaming 22.

22!

So we have this sort of correlation of— oh, Saturn was also in Leo. So Saturn was in Leo in both of these letters, and that only happens every 36 years. So we have this— basically, the Jack the Ripper letter was having its Saturn return.

Yeah.

Oh my God!

What?! That is insane!

Crazy, right?

That is insane. That's crazy.

Yes.

A 30-year cycle.

Yes.

That is so fucking significant. You're a genius.

Damn.

You're an absolute astrology genius. Seriously, this is crazy.

It's bananas, right?

Yeah.

If you don't think astrology is real, get the fuck out of here. You're crazy.

We're done with you here.

Like, how do you explain this?

Come on. Yes.

Come on.

Damn.

That's wild to me.

Yes. So it was this 30— 1888 to 1919.

Wow.

Interesting, interesting, interesting. Yeah. And the completion of a cycle.

Completion of a cycle. And this sort of like this continuation.

I was just gonna say, I'm back again.

Yeah, back again. So if you wanted to make an argument that this is actually supernatural, I think you could.

Yeah. I mean—

You could absolutely say this really is the same entity.

Can you imagine?

I mean, one is dated, one is From hell, right? Yeah. Jack the Ripper. And

the other references hell.

Yeah. Whoa. I got the chills.

Yeah.

And he dates the article or the letter, by the way, hell, March 13th, 1919. So he is essentially saying from hell.

Like, this is coming from hell.

He just doesn't write from hell, but he writes hell as the place where he's writing this from. That is so fucking wild to me.

Yeah. It's so bonkers.

That really is. Yes.

So like, you could, you could say, like, if you paranormalled it— Yeah, you could make an argument. You could be like, oh, this is—

Maybe there's an influence.

This is the— this is sort of like a different manifestation of that same demonic, evil energy.

Well, maybe the supernatural force is truly just the planets.

Yeah.

And their effect on us.

Totally.

Yeah.

Saturn himself.

Yeah.

Or you could say that this is like the sort of, you know, the cycle of time that every 30 years we have this sort of like somebody who gets possessed by this energy, by this bastard kind of

energy.

Yeah. And, or you could say that this is somebody who was losing their mind, found a signature, killed a baby, and was like, I'm the new Jack the Ripper.

Yeah.

You know?

Absolutely.

Like, who else is as evil as me?

Yeah.

And I was researching, I was like, is— would this person have known of Jack the Ripper at this time? 100%.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, it was so, so widely known. The timing. Very much overkill. The letter— they would've known letter, especially if this is somebody who is plugged in and has like the resources to be able to like have the worldliness to know what's going on.

Which they sound—

Exactly.

A little worldly.

They do.

Because what is Jack the Ripper, like late 1880s?

1888.

Yeah. So yeah, they would know.

So yeah, this is the Saturn return.

The correlation there is crazy.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah. So, I mean, and just the 22 of it, the correlation of the Pisces energy—

The Pisces, the Leo energy.

The Leo, the fact that we have Saturn, not just having a Saturn return, but also the Saturn in Leo, the dramatics of it.

Yeah.

You know, of like the— and here's—

The flair.

The flair.

Yes.

Yeah, just wanting to have a little fun with this torture.

Yeah.

So, obviously, everyone jazzes it out.

Of course.

Nobody dies. And we then don't have another attack until—

It's a while.

August 10th again, which is the date of another attack. Yep. It's all Augusts and Marches. You know, it's like August and— so beware the Ides of August.

I guess so.

Beware. But which is so interesting because it also points to this sort of like, what's going on in these seasons?

Right.

It's cyclical.

Yeah. These cyclical times.

Right.

So this, uh, this is Steve Boca, August 10th, 1919, who comes stumbling out of his home with an ax wound in his head.

Jesus.

And stumbles to a friend who— the friend is at first like, I can fix him, and then is like, I can't. That's a lot.

What a confident friend.

Yeah, I know. No one wants a friend like that. Yeah.

That's like, please take me to the hospital.

Please call emergency services right away.

Yeah. You can't fix this.

Yeah, don't do this yourself.

I know you're good at sewing, but this is my scalp.

This is my one and only. Yeah. So at this point, we see— so Saturn is at the anaretic degree. It's at 29 degrees. It's making a direct opposition from where it was when this whole, like, process began. So we're, like, really sort of in this— the finality of this story. You know, like, we're kind of like— In

the office.

Yeah. We're, like, sort of approaching the end. Yeah.

Right?

But this is a surviving victim. Right? This is another victim that survives. Then we have on September 3rd, so 3 weeks later, another attack on Sarah Laumann when she was sleeping. This is a— this is a woman who was sleeping just a 19-year-old living alone, locked the doors, did all of these safe things, but here he is coming in through the window. So this is not the typical—

Calls out again.

Yeah, he's coming back full circle, right?

Yeah,

which is very frenetic. It's like,

yeah,

I've already gone too far, I've killed a baby, I've written a letter, I haven't got attention, so maybe I can just go back to my OG ways.

Totally. It's also— we should note that the night before Someone did shoot at him. Someone shot at an intruder but didn't get them, but didn't get the suspect. And then the suspect had left all of their shit behind. So he left his chisel behind. So maybe he didn't have a chisel.

Oh, okay.

Maybe he had forgotten his—

Yeah, maybe that was it.

He didn't have enough time to procure another chisel.

Yeah.

So he was like, well, I gotta do this.

Smart.

You would think that they would start to look at the chisel records. Yeah. Like, who is buying chisels?

But I feel like they were so common back then for different kinds of work, you know? Everybody had a chisel.

I guess so. I guess, you know, don't go anywhere without your chisel.

Not now, I wouldn't.

Yeah. Well, this is Mars very heavily involved here. Mars is with Jupiter and Neptune now. We're moving into a Jupiter and Neptune in Leo movement. So like the planets are shifting as we get into this different dimension of Of this time, right? Like, and it does seem to me, as we get into these very final attacks, like he is slowing down. Like something is changing in the way that he's approaching them. Which leads us to the final attack, which is so important.

It's such a full circle.

Yes.

It's crazy. I have goosebumps knowing where this goes.

It's very strange.

Mike Pepitone So, Mike Pepitone is killed in bed. He is the husband and father of 6 children, and his wife and children were in the room next to him. The wife comes in, sees his— her husband being brutally attacked, sees blood spilling and pouring everywhere. It is, like, the most horrific scene imaginable.

He'd been hit 18 times.

She evidently gets a good look...

Yeah.

...at who's doing it.

Mm-hmm.

And I don't know why. I don't know how this keeps happening. I don't really know how he ends up exiting, like, how he—

Just tosses her to the side?

Yeah. Just, like, I don't know what ends up happening with, like, her looking, her seeing her husband. I don't know if he just, like, jumps out the window.

Runs out.

Right. But this is the last murder.

Mm-hmm.

And what's interesting is that in 1910, which is the year that all of this started, Mike Pepitone's father, Peter, killed a man. Killed a man, last name DeCristina. And Mike Pepitone then moved his grocery business into my— into DeCristina's place of business.

Oh,

shit. So, his father kills this guy.

Yep.

Moves his son in, and is like, this is a great spot in town. You're definitely gonna want it.

Damn.

1910 is the first murder, the first attack that we have from the Axemen. So, we literally go full circle from Mike Pepitone, who is just, you know, who is this random person?

Oh, that's really fascinating.

So, it loops around, which is then, if you want to continue, you know, think about there being some, like, more organized crime theories or the Black Hand theory, like, it does seem to allude to that, that we would find ourselves sort of back in the storyline. And all of these people were casualties just to get to Mike Pepitone.

I was gonna say, damn.

But then things get even crazier because his widow, Esther, ends up moving to Los Angeles. She's like, I can't stay in New Orleans. This was— I saw something so brutal, so horrible.

This is just, like, a year and a half later.

Yeah. So January 1921, she's like, I'm going to another LA. I'm going to Los Angeles, California. leaves Louisiana and marries someone named Angelo Albano. And Angelo Albano happens to be the former business partner of one Joseph Mumfre. So, some time into their— to this new relationship, her new husband goes missing. He's gone. And she's like, what the fuck? How does this keep happening? Yeah. I have horrible taste in men or something. And on this night, December 5th, 1921, Joseph Mumfre comes into her home with a gun and demands money, silence, all of these things. It's an extortion. And says, or I'm gonna kill you just like I did your husband. And she looks at him, and it's the man she saw in New Orleans.

Just a year and a half before. Bashing.

her first husband's face in, and she takes her revolver and kills him. So she kills the suspect. She kills the Axeman.

And he is the best suspect of the entire story.

Yeah, he absolutely is.

And now—

And it stops.

And then he stops forever after having continued for a decade. A whole decade.

How insane is that? And the fact that it lines up with the completion of the cycle of the— What was it? Saturn-Neptune conjunction.

Yes.

That's so weird.

That's crazy.

That's so strange.

Yes. We sort of like, we found ourselves moving from one sort of like the intensity of that Jupiter-Pluto like peak where like, you know, whoever is doing this is like, hahaha, you'll never catch me. I'm losing my mind. Not to mention that this last one, October 27th, 1919, And if it is indeed Frank Doc Murphy, also known as Joseph Mumfre, also known as Leon Mumfre, like he has all of these different aliases. He's got aliases. Yeah. The names. He is a Scorpio. And this last one was Scorpio season. Scorpio season. Scorpio. The sun was in Scorpio. This suspect, Frank Doc Mumfre, has a Sagittarius moon. His last murder was when the moon was in Sagittarius, and then he was killed in Sagittarius season. He was killed when the sun would've been on his moon. So, like, it does look like it is this person. And the crazy thing is, is that I kind of think that it's all of it. Like, I think that it was— there was organized crime. I think that there was the Black Hand extortion thing that was going on. And I also think that he was insane.

And took it too far.

And took it too far, and then became obsessed with Jack the Ripper, and became obsessed with finding his own, like, signature Yeah, he got like

a taste for blood.

Yes, a taste for blood. And I think that at different crescendos of it, like killing the baby, he's like, I am crazy now. I am the new— and then I— he— Jack the Ripper was having a Saturn return, so he could have also been possessed by the same fucking demon that was possessing Jack the Ripper.

It's all so fascinating.

That's crazy. Astrology is real. Holy shit.

Astrology is so real.

This was fucking fascinating.

Crazy.

I think it just makes so much sense.

It does. I think— I mean, he's literally the only suspect and the strongest suspect, and it all ends with he dies.

And for it all to end that way.

Yeah.

And there's too many things that line up.

I think we've cracked the case here today.

Yeah, I think so.

So I'm just going to share, if this is indeed who did it, whodunit, I'm going to share just a bit about his chart. So he would have been in his early 30s. when it started. Saturn return. Right after his Saturn return, and he would have died in his early 40s.

Okay.

That would have been sort of like, it would have been happening in his 30s into his 40s, which I think makes sense with, like, you know, the physical stature that we understand this person to be. Strong, obviously, like, able to wiggle an ax around.

Right.

He was born with Saturn, Uranus, opposition in his chart. Saturn at 19, Uranus at 19. This only happens every 45 years. So this was something like he died under that same sky, you know, like he died under those same conditions. Remember, Uranus is shocking things, unexpected things, and Saturn is a Grim Reaper of sorts, but it's also like consequences and responsibility.

And you didn't learn your lessons.

You didn't learn your lessons. And I think that there's a signature that we can see in this of of sort of, like, things getting out of hand, and then also feeling like you are— you are God. You know, this feeling of being invincible. You get to decide. That you get to decide. And I love, you know, if this lore is all true, him being killed by the Widow.

Oh, it's poetic. Poetic justice. Poetic. Yeah.

Truly. Like, it comes back around in this, like, very— Full sweep. Yes.

Yeah.

Also, I mean, if you're like, what are the odds of that having happened? And there was a very tight-knit community of Italian merchants, Italian grocers, Italian immigrants. And I think that, like, you know, we can imagine that this was happening to a community that didn't have resources. Like, no, these people, a lot of them had money. They were doing very, very well. So the extortion wasn't just like, you know, you have this like small mom-and-pop. Like, no, these were like people who were actually like— Business owners.

Business owners. Yes.

Right.

So this continued to Los Angeles, right? You know, this community and these networks. So it's not just like she ends up in Los Angeles and it's like, how is she connected again? It's like, no, this was a tight-knit community spread across the United States,

right,

where people knew each other. And these people were also like— had the financial mobility to be in these different places as well.

Absolutely.

So, you know, the fact that we have this sort of like cross-state And then I just love, like, sort of poetically, us dropping off in Los Angeles and like, you wanted razzle-dazzle, you wanted Leo, you wanted the drama. Honey, welcome to Hollywood, baby.

Like, boom.

Killed in Hollywood.

By the widow.

Yes. And then we— it sort of like ushers us into the golden age of Hollywood. Like, we could literally start this story up again in like the Hollywood of the '20s. Film noir of it all. Yeah,

that's so— Absolutely.

It's so crazy.

Yeah.

So interesting.

Like, why does that work so well?

It works so well.

Planets. So

he was a Sun in Scorpio with conjunct Jupiter. So Sun, Jupiter, Scorpio, Mercury in Scorpio, Venus in Scorpio. Oh,

wow.

Big Scorpio stellium, really into the psychology, the depth, the darkness of it all. Jupiter expanding that. He had Pluto at 22 degrees, 22 degrees of Taurus, which means it was opposite all of those Jupiter and Sun connections that he had. So there was this, like, very dark and brooding sort of energy here. And he actually did have a fixed Grand Cross in his chart as well between Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, Jupiter, the Sun. So there was— it makes sense that— there kept being these big, important Leo things happening in the sky when he, as a fixed Grand Cross person, would have been activated by those.

Yes.

Because all of the same modality get activated by each other. So all cardinal signs— Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn— get activated by each other. All fixed— Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarius— get activated by each other. And then all mutable— Gemini, Virgo, Sag, and Pisces— get activated by each other. So the fact that like anything fixed happening, anything in Leo happening, going on, it's like, boom, I'm in.

It's gonna be boom.

Yeah, I'm in. Because that signature is in his birth chart.

It called to him.

It called to him.

That's really interesting. Yeah. It also just makes sense too that he would have been so fascinated by Jack the Ripper with all the dark energy in his chart and like the death and the— like the spooky,

like,

it's interesting.

Yeah. And like, what else? What's your, what's your comp? You know, like, what's your reference point? It's like, you killed a baby, now fucking what, dude?

Right?

Look what you— look how far it's gone.

Yeah.

And who else would you be other than this? But it still doesn't fully explain the jazz it out.

No, it really doesn't.

Other than the Pisces bit.

The Pisces bit. Yeah.

I was gonna say, that's—

And you're in New Orleans, you know.

You're in New Orleans.

Yeah, that's the culture.

Like, but do you think that he— I think he thought it was scary. You think that it was just another spooky thing?

Because it feels like he's like, I'm going to— because it'll create noise.

And then not only that, it's a control thing. It's overstimulating. I can get you to do it.

I can make you all put on this jazz music. And then if I feel like I want to still come in your house, there's a lot of noise and I'll be able to.

Exactly.

But if I don't feel like it, then you'll think that I was telling the truth. So it's like he wins either way.

Right.

Yes.

I think the biggest part of it was the control. Let's really just, like, see how much this— and see what I can do. Yes.

Do you think that it was him who wrote the letter?

I kind of do, because I find it interesting that there was no crime that night.

Yeah.

You know, and then it took a little bit for him to, to start back up again.

I could go either way.

I wonder if he could have had some sort of, like, a, a recurring illness that he would be affected by. I wonder if he knew that, like, he wasn't going to be able— he didn't have the strength to do something. And he's like, I'd love to hear— I'd love to walk around and hear music.

Yeah. And he's like, and then I won't do anything.

Yeah. Because I won't be able to— I'll be out anyway. So, like,

and I'm taking back the control of, like, I can't do this tonight, but

it's like,

well, it's only because I decided.

Yeah.

It wasn't decided for me.

I think that could be it.

But it also is very demonic to have all of those, like, you know, to be that highfalutin in a letter. Yeah. It's giving devil.

It is. Absolutely.

It absolutely is.

Yeah. It's a fascinating case. I do think it was Frank.

I think it was for sure.

I think it had to be. There's too much overlap. Yeah.

There's too much overlap between the grocers, between the—

He's too much of a big suspect.

Yeah, he really is. And I just love the poeticness of the window.

The poetic justice is insane.

Saving the day.

Yeah. It's too beautiful.

It is.

What are we going to do next October?

I know.

Oh my gosh. I— sky's the limit.

Sky is the limit. No pun intended.

I know. We'll have to think of something really good.

Welcome to my life.

Literally, right?

I would— yeah, I wonder if for listeners now, this would be the 3rd Stars Over story. I wonder what they're itching.

What are you hungry for?

What do you guys want next? Because this is so fun and interesting. I love doing this.

And we have to have you back next October. I'll be here

whether or not— It's tradition. Hey, I'm going to be here. Of course.

So it's tradition.

I'm your new 22 degrees. All

right, well, you guys let us know in the comments. We'll chat amongst ourselves and we'll figure this out.

Yeah.

All right, and now we're going to go do fun spooky stuff together.

Hell yeah.

Obviously.

So we hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you don't tune back in next October. Check out Aliza on tour. You have a few

dates left, right? Yes, depending on when this comes out.

Uh, Thursday.

Oh, yes, I do.

Oh, good.

Tell us, tell us.

I will be in Los Angeles on October 27th, San Francisco October 28th, and then Beverly right next to Salem on October 30th.

Love it.

Yes, so excited.

All right, perfect. Well, go check out those dates, and we love you.

Do it. For the haunted tea party.