Transcript of Elle Apologizes to Dolly

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Is this thing on? What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Today I am so excited because I have been wanting this guest forever. Ever since your first album came out, I have been obsessed with you. And not to mention, your dad was one of my childhood crushes.

Oh my gosh.

L King is in the house, baby.

Wow.

I have been waiting for you to come because you do not know how obsessed I was with Deuce Bigelow.

No, you know I was in that. I did not know that.

I love that.

Wow, a little foreshadowing. You're like, we're gonna be friends. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I was a little Girl Scout.

I love that. I never even knew that. But I mean, I just, I've always been a, like John Candy and like funny comedians were always my thing. And your dad, like I knew he was like the tiniest little thing ever.

Oh my gosh.

But I was just like—

If he finds this out, he's gonna be like, I've still got it. Oh no.

Dude, Rob Schneider was like, it was Rob Schneider, Drew Carey. Like I had a list of like comedians that I loved as a child.

I always go for funny over anything.

Me too.

I mean, I've dated all kinds of different people, but if you make me laugh, you get my heart and—

My vagina.

And my vagina.

I'm telling you, man, you make me laugh, my legs are spread wide open.

Yeah, and like throw in like a neck tat, like sold.

Sold. Oh, they have to have tattoos?

Yes.

Do you have to date a man with tattoos or can you date a man who has bare skin?

I'll try anything twice. I love that. But I do tend to get along better with, I don't know, it just, I like people who have tattoos. It's—

Same.

You can withstand, if someone's like covered in tattoos, like they can withstand some things. Yeah, they can take some shit. Or they've been through things, you know?

Or they have that like rough around the edges thing.

Yeah.

I feel like if we're flesh all a mesh and I'm the only one with tattoos, I feel like one of these kids is doing its own thing and I like want you to be on my team, you know? Like you need to be covered in tattoos too.

Definitely.

Are you dating right now?

I am actually back with my baby daddy.

Ah, we're gonna dive into this.

I know, I know.

Okay, hence the tour name, right?

Yes, yes. And we broke up for a year and I was going through really, really insane postpartum and I don't even think that I realized I was going through it until I kind of got out of it. And we were already broken up and he just kept showing up and We became best friends, and then through, like, custody and everything and working together and, like, a lot of therapy on my part, we've— we, like, restarted our communication, our, like, respect for each other.

Aww.

And I just— I never stopped being in love with him. And then finally, he was just like, "I wore the right set of underwear," and just, like, locked in.

I love that.

And we're doing really, really well.

I feel, I love that you're talking about postpartum though, because I feel like a lot of women in the spotlight, like you guys literally will have babies and then you're thrust back into the spotlight and it's like you don't have time to heal, you don't have time to nurture yourself.

No.

And then the world wants to be mad at you if like you're not this picture perfect human that they've put you on this pedestal.

Yeah, it's honestly like, it's kind of fucked up because I really struggled to get pregnant in a lot of different relationships and now I know it's like, God's timing is not up to us. And even our baby's timing is not up to us.

Amen.

And I think that like the pandemic, everything was shut down and I was able to like rest. I sold my house in LA, I moved to New Mexico, I had donkeys and goats, and I got pregnant. And because I wasn't on the road, I didn't have all this pressure, I ballooned up. I got so heavy and I got up to, I was like £284 the day that I delivered my son. And then—

That was happy weight though.

Yeah, I mean, it was miserable weight.

Wow.

But it was also like my body did what it had to do. And then it took me 3 years to lose baby weight. And the thing that made me so mad is like in this day and age, like no one gives any credit for anything. I don't care how anybody loses weight. If somebody takes charge of their own life, not that anyone has to because I've been every single size, but like I worked really, really hard because I was so depressed. I started working 3 months after I had my son. I was back on the road and I was like trying to— I like already stopped breastfeeding. I was so stressed out. And then I just started working out to try and get my mind right because I was like blue. I was really sad.

Yeah.

Really miserable. And then my song with Miranda, "Drunk," like really went crazy during my pregnancy. So, so many changes happened so quickly, so fast. And then, I don't know, I just like— you'd think anything that I know about or had known about postpartum was like, oh, like, you could like be kind of sad like for a couple weeks, a couple months after. And I'm like looking down and like it's 2 years after.

Mm-hmm.

And like I'm getting ready to celebrate my son's second birthday. And I'm not with his dad. And I'm like, I feel so lost. I tried a lot of different therapies. I tried— I tried all kinds of different psychedelic stuff. I tried talk therapy. I tried everything. And ultimately, I had to go through certain experiences on my own, some of which I didn't want to go through, but—

Like life experiences?

Like life experiences. Like, you know, I'm already kind of— I don't want to say I'm sick of talking about what happened in January and the Dolly incident, and I'm sure people are not going to like what I have to say about a lot of it, but like, I can already look back and be like, "You know what? I have this good thing that came from it. This thing changed in my life. This— I was presented with an opportunity to grow." And I think that every experience is an opportunity for change.

Yes, ma'am.

And change is inevitable. It's the blade that carves itself and— or sharpens itself, whatever that quote is. And I really like that. But like, when you—

When that Dolly incident happened, were you still going through postpartum? Was that part of it?

Honestly, I think I'd kind of come out of postpartum and then everything that had accumulated, everything that I had just like sucked onto my life in my depression, all just kind of came to a head. I think it was probably just rock bottom, right? I just— if it wasn't that, it was gonna be something else. And I just took, for the first time, like, you know, when I was pregnant, like, I was like, "Okay, maybe I've got this time given to me." This year was the first time I was like, "I'm stepping away from this. Everyone's telling me to kill myself. Everyone's telling me to surrender my child." That's so wrong. And it was just so, so wrong. And, you know, if a man did it, it would've been a completely different story. But also, like, I've spoken to everybody and I've spoken to everyone at the Opry and they said that I'm not banned.

Yeah. Country is forgiving.

They are really forgiving people. It is. And the saddest part about it is like, and I don't even really want to use these words, but like, somebody is going to get arrested. Somebody is going to get something that happens. You know, some people might say it's good for you, but like, for me, I'm like, that's sad. The biggest thing I learned was like, okay, take nothing that you read online for like full-blown truth because everything, you never know. From my experience, especially what was going on then, I was going through some like heavy, heavy, heavy shit. Not even postpartum, not even my breakup, not even just that.

It's just like— Can we touch on it?

I mean, it was just— it was a dark situation that I can't talk about, and I don't really want to, but like—

Like a relationship?

Yeah, it was like bad shit that was going on. And I— because of that, no one knew what was really going on, and they just thought, like, God forbid somebody looks and thinks, "Wow, like, what was going on with her that day?" You know? Like, I played 2 shows that day. I played 2 fucking shows. The first show was great. It was perfect. But I hadn't eaten. I hadn't done anything. I hadn't slept in days. I was so— I had such bad anxiety and everything. And I just walked back out on stage, and I'd taken one shot too many. We went through that alleyway and went to Robert's Western World, and a bunch of people were celebrating. And I took, you know, one shot of tequila when I'd been drinking a martini. And like, that— I was like the tiniest I'd ever been.

Mm-hmm.

And boom, I come to, and like, the curtain's down. And it sucks. It's awful. But at the same time, I went home and I was like, I never, I never wanna cry like that in a car ride home. I never wanna wake up feeling like that ever again. I never want to feel that shame. I never wanna, like, you know, any, anytime Dolly Parton calls you is cool, but like, I didn't want it to be under those circumstances. And like, but she called me to make me feel better, you know?

She's a sweet angel of a woman.

She's literally— she's like proof of angels. She truly is. And I think what that taught— like, I learned so much from this experience. And like, if I can come out of it, literally anyone can. And I've had so many experiences like that. I hope I have less of them in the future.

I'm with you, girl. I went through some shit this last week. I'm like, Lord, what are you doing? What are you trying to teach me?

I know, it's like, come on, my book of lessons is getting kind of full. But I don't know, do you believe in many lives?

Absolutely, I also believe in soul contracts and I believe that—

Me too, me too.

Oh, tell me, what do you believe?

Let me hear. Okay, so I believe I did, okay, this is kind of wacky.

No, I love it.

I don't know if people believe in this stuff. No, we do. I'm so into it. I'm very spiritual. I'm very connected to spirit. I meditate. I've got guides.

I studied with—

Oh, I love it. Sister. Yes. I do tarot.

Where have you been? They're all over here laughing 'cause this is me.

Okay, amazing. Okay, good. Then I'm one of them.

You found your coven.

Okay, great, sick. I did this one reading with a woman and she was, it was called like a rose reading. I'd never done anything like that. And she went through some past lives. And because I'm clairvoyant and clairsentient, I also don't talk about this a lot, but I don't care. I have nothing to hide. Me too. And you are too?

Yes.

Okay, I believe that. And I feel like that's why we're like supposed to be connected. I love that. It was like over the phone, 'cause it was during COVID it was right before COVID when things were like starting to like get crazy. And she was explaining a couple of my past lives and I was like locked in with her and I could see her, like I could see everything that she was seeing and everything lined up. And I asked her, I said, have I ever had a child in a past life? And she said no. And, um, and so she said, you're gonna have to make a soul contract with someone to bring, like, for this lifetime. And, um, I mean, I've even had, like, like, psychics— one time I was pregnant before I had a miscarriage, and he was like, have you ever had a miscarriage? And I was like, no, not that I know of. Like, boom, a week later I had, like, I had a miscarriage. And then the next pregnancy was missed. And, um, and so I think that I had to have a soul contract with either my baby. I don't know how all of it works, but I know that my baby chose me and I know that he's destined to be here.

But to do that, I'm so into healing and I'm all into a lot of spiritual stuff, so I felt like— it's true, I saw something online that was like, if you're ever feeling called to a place, you need to go.

Yeah.

Because there's something that has to happen there. I'd never been to Bali and I went probably like, it was like in January and I had had like 2 back-to-back miscarriages in September and like, oh yeah, end of August and into September and was still on the road. Like 3 days after, like bleeding on stage, everything. So sad and doomy gloomy. I can, it's easier now.

No, but that's your childhood trauma is to push through any sort of pain and not sit in it.

Yeah, because I can't. That's when I lose my mind.

Me too. I don't want to wallow.

No, no. I'm like, "Okay, what job can I do? Okay, what can I do? Let's make another album. Let's do something." And then I lose my mind because I'm not actually taking the time. My new thing, I got to feel it to heal it. And so that's what I did. That's why I took time this year. I know I'm bouncing all over the place, but—

No, no, I love it. And I'll draw you in.

Okay, cool. I went, I felt this, like, pull to Bali, and I looked up this healing ceremony in the middle of the jungle. And I dragged my best friend with me, and she was like, okay. Even though she's into metaphysical spiritual stuff, she was like, this is a little much. And I'm meeting with this healer, and she says to me— I was like, I had a miscarriage, and all I want to be is a mother. And she said, "Well, the soul is a boy and he'll come back to you." And I said, "What do I have to do?" She said, "You have to make a sacrifice." And I was like, "Like quitting smoking?" And she was like, just looked at me and got up and walked away and then did this crazy thing where they whip you with flowers. It was beautiful. And poured all this gorgeous water all over you. And then you scream and then they paint flowers all over you and they pray for you. And it was beautiful. It was so incredible. Oh. That year is when I got pregnant and I had a boy and it was just beautiful. I believed it.

There's something so, I think, important about just like what your convictions are and what you believe in. And it's so simple as like the thoughts you tell yourself or the things that you say out loud. All of it is energy.

Oh, words are spells.

Yes. Yes, I tell everybody that. It's everything that you— like today I had a doctor's appointment and like, I was really scared about it and I didn't even—

Me too, I had one today too. What was yours about? Can we ask?

I'll tell you after.

Okay, okay.

But I didn't want to put negative things, I was so freaked out about it that I refused to say it's not gonna be good. I just like, I'm nervous.

Yes.

And I felt like that was better.

I had one today too where I was finding out if I really had an aneurysm on my carotid artery.

Oh my gosh.

I had just found out last week that I had one one. Today I got the news that I didn't have one. And I know exactly what you're saying because I never, when I prayed, I wasn't like, God, please don't let me have this. I just said, whatever your will is.

Yeah.

And let me know what the lesson is here.

Yeah.

And I never, and I get that. I understand when you're so scared, your first thing is, is you wanna be like, no, please don't let the, but I really was just like surrendered. And it was my moment to actually learn how to have faith. Yes.— it worked. And I'm telling you right now, if you don't speak those things into your life, not saying that it doesn't happen for everybody, but if you don't speak those things into your life, you can definitely, I feel, change the energy or the trajectory of what's about to happen.

Yes. And you can create that.

Absolutely.

That's like the whole thing about manifestation, and which is something I learned about this year. And I even just speaking it.

Yes.

Like, I didn't realize what I was doing. Like, when I took time off, when I was thinking like, "Oh, fuck. Like, I could go back to the world and I could have no fucking career. I could have no musical career. I could never play a show again. I could get dropped from my label. My management could drop me." And I started thinking, "All right, bitch, what do you wanna fucking do? Like, what would be cool? What would excite you?" 'Cause I wanna be, I'm a very passionate person. I'm a very hard worker. And I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool to play like a bad guy in a movie?" I love that. 'Cause you know, my dad's an actor. And I don't really feel like I get a lot of the nepotism stuff, and I feel, it makes me sad for the people who do because—

That's one thing I've loved about you is that when I was researching your life story, you're a lot like me. I didn't come from, you know, very much, but I always wanted to pave my own way, and you were just like, I wanna make my own way.

Yeah.

Respect.

I didn't really grow up with my dad. I grew up with my mom and my—

Yeah, let's touch on that. Let's go back and talk about that real quick. So you are a daughter of Rob Schneider. Daddy Schneider. And every time I say that, she blushes. And beautiful Miss London King.

Yes.

You know, and who was like a supermodel, correct? Yeah.

She's the coolest.

You are her twin. I mean, you guys are beautiful. You are her twin. I could see a little bit of your dad in you, but you are her just, you know, reincarnated. Take me on this journey with your childhood because I don't think a lot of people don't know that your dad was not in your life growing up.

No, he really wasn't. And it's interesting because, like, yeah, I was born in California, but, like, my parents, they weren't married for very long. They didn't really know each other. And my mom had a son before me. My mom was a really, really young mom. My family comes from Southern Ohio, like, very close to West Virginia. And it's a super small town. I think it's, like, 1,800 people, which is, like, big for a small town. There's more than one stoplight.

Yeah.

And it's a place that is, like, and always has been my constant because my family moved around a lot. Um, and my parents, yeah, they split. And I have— I would spend time with my dad, but my mom raised me, like, always. My mom, single mom until she met my stepdad, who also, he's my dad. Like, he totally raised me.

Um, and— Shout out to the stepparents.

Yes.

I'm a stepparent.

Yes, you are. And they're so important. And I don't— I definitely wouldn't be a musician if it weren't for my stepdad. Oh, I love that. And he taught me everything I know about music. I mean, I'm wearing— he's got his own label, Good Times Rock and Roll Club. I'm wearing his shirt. He's a screen printer.

I want one. I want one.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

They'll send you a whole care package and records and stuff. I would love that. And he's just, like, the most badass person ever. And my mom— my mom, I saw her reinvent herself, like, almost every 10 years because she was a fit model. She was a model. She did some acting and then she became like a fitness instructor and she was like helping. She was like really, really, really into health. And then when we moved to New York, when I was about 12 years old, we left Ohio 'cause my stepdad's from New York and my mom became a doula.

Oh.

And she like, my mom's pretty crunchy. But she's the coolest. Like, she encapsulated my placenta and I'm—

Okay, what is encapsulating placenta just for people at home who don't know what that is?

Okay, so the placenta is basically, it's like a filter but it's also what gives all the nutrients and all the life from the uterus to the baby and it's what's connected to the umbilical cord from the baby to the mama. And so it's, sometimes they call it like the afterbirth and it comes out after you have after you give birth. And we are the only, I don't want fact checkers to come after me, but I'm gonna try my best. We're the only mammals that don't instinctively or naturally eat our placenta or afterbirth because it's so full of nutrients. So I don't know if anyone's ever seen a dog or a cat give birth, but they eat it.

They eat the membranes off their puppies and stuff. I've seen that, yeah.

Yes, 'cause it helps them. Some people say that— well, I mean, there's a lot of factual evidence behind it, but I don't want, like, super Western medicine people to come after me about that.

Bring it on. Bring it on.

Because I believe it.

Everybody gives grace here.

Yeah. Okay, great. And so my mom cooks the placenta and then encapsulates it, and then the woman or the mother slowly eats it over time. What does it taste like? It tastes like a vitamin.

What does it taste like? Anything?

Well, Dan, my boyfriend, he ate a piece of my placenta. It was cooked, it was cooked. He was like, "This is the closest I could be to a cannibal." So, you know, it's like guys with neck tattoos who are funny, I don't know, what are you gonna do? I love it, yeah.

They're wild. You're like, "Let's make another baby." Yeah, exactly.

And, but it made me feel, like when I took it, it made me feel like kind of anxious. And I don't know, I always feel like I'm like letting my mom down because she's this like, angelic, like she— I was a VBAC, so she had a C-section with my brother and then she had a natural birth with me. And she said it was an orgasmic birth. There's a documentary—

I love mom.

I know. Oh my God. I know.

I love mom. She's right up my alley.

Yeah. She's wonderful. You guys would love each other. And she literally made me and Dan watch this documentary called Orgasmic Birth. And I was like, "Oh, Mom." Tell me about this, orgasmic births.

I've never heard of this.

Okay, okay, great.

Neither had I.

No, actually, I'd heard of it my whole life because my mom was like, "I had an orgasmic birth with you." I was like, "Mom, stop telling people that." Words every kid wants to hear. Yes, but it was like, it's basically the whole idea of it From what I took from the documentary, I was like, "I'm not having that. That's not me." I was like, "Cut this puppy out." You kind of get yourself into this state. And I was just watching that show Too Hot to Handle where they had energy orgasms.

Yeah.

Okay?

I love that.

So I don't think it's that far off from that. So you get yourself into this state of relaxation and you're connected with your partner, and then I guess you have this flush that's like an orgasmic release of— I don't think it's like a sexual pleasure, but watching that thing, like, you know, you can learn a lot from reality TV. I can understand now how it could be this like orgasmic feeling of like, "Oh my gosh," combined with like, "I did it," and, "Wow, my baby's here." Just pride and joy.

Just pride. Yeah. And like, yeah.

Yeah, like it makes you— It makes me think like, do I wanna try for like a VBAC if I have another kid? Like, I don't know. There's a lot of things. Most likely if I were, I would be like, cut this fucker out. That's how I was in my pregnancy.

I still think it's a beautiful thing to think about. So I mean, if you know, if I'm scared to death of natural birth, that's why Jay and I are doing IVF and we're gonna get a surrogate. But because I also have issues too. And I just, at this age, I don't have time for miscarriages and stuff like that. So, but yeah, women who give birth, man, you guys are Savages, dude. Like, that is the most barbarically beautiful thing that a woman can do. And I mean, you guys are literally just pushing a soul out of your body.

Yeah, it's, it's pretty wild. I mean, I had a C-section. I freaked out on the table. I was screaming, I can't feel my legs! And I, I was screaming for them. I was like, I literally— like, it's so me. They didn't even let my mom come up. 'Cause it was during frickin' COVID. And so I was like, "Give me," literally, "Give me drugs. Where is Dan?" Screaming for him to come in there.

Poor Dan's in a corner somewhere.

I know, he's like, "What's going on, babe?" But it was cool. I just, I feel like I won't do anything that my parents ever expect of me. And I felt kind of sad. And I don't know, I'm just like a different person. And I definitely have like a very different destiny. But I also thought like, because my pregnancy was so hard and intense, like, and before Dan and I got back together, I wanted another child. And I asked my sister, I was like, 'cause she's had 3 kids, she got her tubes tied, but she can still tote it.

Yeah.

And I was like—

I love that.

I was like, hey, like, would you carry a baby for me? Like, it wasn't even 2 seconds later, she's like, if you pay for a tummy tuck. It's like, that's good. Like, that's cool. I love that. But yeah, I was like looking up like, —cryobanks and everything. And I think that surrogacy is so beautiful and what a gift. I think any— I hate it when I see that people get anything negative about how they choose to be healthy, how they choose to welcome children into this world. It should only be— I have chills thinking about it. It should only ever be celebrated.

Absolutely.

Because again, to bring it back, You have no fucking idea what someone had to go through to even get to that point to make that decision.

I just think we live in a world where it's like a fish tank, and some days you're the fish that gets picked on, and it's like they will zero in. Like when you went through the Dolly situation, I remember it broke my heart and I reached out to you because I was like, she doesn't fucking deserve this. I've met you, I've felt your energy. I'm like, she is the sweetest fucking soul. And that's why I reached out to you, because I wanted you to know like you're not alone. But this online shit, man, It's bad. Like, it is, um, mob mentality, and it's millions of people mob mentality that just have a fucking— It's getting worse too. It is, because there's no, there's no recourse.

No.

So if you say something, nothing happens, you know?

Like, I thought, like, after all the stuff from, like, early 2000s with, like, the Perez-Hiltons and all that, just, like, horrible, horrific bullying, like, and then I thought maybe, like, Okay, no more bullying is like a thing. Like, no. And the saddest part about it, which is the only way that I can like still have a fucking Instagram, it's like, okay, that person who's saying that is hurting.

Yeah. Well, you have to post and ghost. That's what I do now.

I mean, yes.

I had to learn that in the last 6 months. Yeah, you can't look at it, right? Nope. And I'll look at the first 5, and then I leave it alone for a few days when I'm feeling a little bit stronger, and then I'll go back in. And if there's some— by that time I'm over that post. Post and it doesn't mean anything, so I'll just delete or block, you know, if I need to. But yeah, I just post and ghost, and it was— it's been the blessing for my mental health, dude.

You have to, because yeah, I mean, like, most days I'm like, I don't want to do Instagram.

Yeah.

And I used to love it. I used to love it because I actually interact with my fans.

Yeah.

And then same, some, some people would comment like, hey, you're getting like 150 really kind things and you're only interacting with the person who said something mean.

I get that too.

And it's weird, 'cause like, you know what? That's fucking true. That's so true. Why? But, and then people, they want that. They want to fight. It's so weird.

You can't win. You cannot win. No, you can't. It doesn't matter. And they're always wittier. For some reason, they will come back and say some of the craziest shit, and you're just like, "Son of a bitch." Yeah, it's really, really wild.

I just go straight for like the "your mom" jokes, 'cause that's—

Me too. I do that. That's my whole thing. They'll be like, "You're such a whore." And I'll be like, "That's not what your dad said about your mom." Yes. Or, you know, like I'll say something like fucking funny. Yeah, totally.

I say like, "That's not what your mom said last night." Yeah. Like, "Okay." So stupid, it's like, 'cause it's so stupid.

Yeah, no, seriously. So let's circle back to your childhood. So you grew up in Ohio and I think a lot of people were like, when you did, and we'll get into your album and stuff like your albums and stuff like that, but when you did crossover into country, did you get any kind of pushback because people were like, "Oh, you're not country," but really you are, you grew up in a rural part of Ohio.

Yeah, I didn't actually get any pushback. I think because I connected with country fans and the biggest pushback was that, okay, when I would get really drunk, like, if anyone were to ever meet my brother and see us together, like, we say the Billy comes out, like my hillbilly comes out.

Yeah, yeah.

And so when I'm drunk, like, I, like, become this, like, like rootin' tootin' fuckin', you know, hillbilly.

Yosemite Sam.

Yes, yeah. And, but no one ever takes the time to find out where someone's from. No one ever takes the time to find out their parents' history.

Their backstory.

It's like, all they see is like, she was born in LA, her dad's Rob Schneider, she's like da da da. It's like, God forbid you find out that like, I'm also Filipino and my family is hillbilly as fuck, in a nice way, you know?

Wow, who's Filipino? Dad?

My dad's Filipino. Wow, I never knew. So I had two very like, different— I spent a lot of time with my dad's mom, my grandmother.

Yeah.

She's from Manila, and I had a really large Filipino family in Northern California.

Wow.

And so my dad would always be working, but my grandmother, she would fly at like 60-something years old, she would fly from San Francisco to Columbus, Ohio, pick me up at like 4 or 5 years old, fly me back to San Francisco to spend a weekend with me. Fly me back to Columbus, and then she would fly back to San Francisco.

Yeah.

And like, that's grandmother love right there.

That is.

And she taught me a lot about family values. I love Filipino culture. I love Filipino food.

Me too.

Yeah, it's so good.

So good.

And so I had that, and then I had this like very like super American Midwest, like country family life in Ohio. But I was like a rebel. Like, I got kicked out of school in 2nd grade. I was always in trouble. I was like friends with all the bad kids.

And— Where do you think that rebellious streak came from? Do you think it was from your father's absence?

No, you know, it could have had a lot of that. I think now that I'm a mom, like, if I hear of something with a child that is acting out, my first thought is, what needs are not being met of the child? Not, oh, that's a problem kid. Oh, that kid is a fuck-up. And I was labeled as a really bad kid. But honestly, like, I didn't have, like, a massive amount of structure. My mom was a hustler. My mom was working. She always had 3 jobs. She was always traveling. My mom would go back and forth to Hong Kong. So we'd spend a lot of time with my grandparents in southern Ohio. And—

That's Ma Ma and Pa Pa?

Ma Ma and Pa Pa, yeah.

I did my research.

Yes. And so I don't know. No. And then when I would— if I would ever spend a summer with my dad, it would be on a movie set, and I would just get lost in the shuffle. And, um—

Did you ever feel like you guys could connect, or it was just more of like—

Not till I was much, much older.

I feel like— and this is not an excuse for dads at all— but I feel like dads have a hard time relating to younger kids.

I think— I think— Not all of them. It's hard. I think dads who make the choice to connect with their kids do. And my dad and my relationship is like a real big ebb and flow. Like right now we're not flowing. I disagree with a lot of the things that he says. And it— he is just— I don't know. You want— you can want someone to change so much. And ultimately, like, all you can— you can't control anyone else's actions. You can't control people's feelings. All you can control is how you react and what you do with your feelings.

Absolutely.

And sometimes I fucking boil up and I boil over and I fucking bust my lid. I'm trying so hard to not be that way because—

I feel like that's how I'm wired the same way. And my dad and I actually have the same— had. He just passed away in May.

Sorry.

It's okay. He and I had the same type of relationship where I felt like I was always the one to give it to my dad, you know, because nobody else did. But I was always the one that was there to be like, no, you're wrong. No, you need to change this. No. And even in the end, it just, it never got through.

And you try every different angle. I would try letters. I would try soft. I would try yelling. It's just like, well, see, look, you're yelling. You're yelling, or like, you can't even stick up for yourself. It's like, what? Like, it's, it's psychotic.

And I mean, it's that, that generation of men, for some reason they're so fucking toxic, and they're cool being toxic. Yeah, they don't— it's everybody else's fault.

Everyone else is the problem because they're like perfect and they're right. Yeah.

And they're, and they're like so smooth in their delivery too.

You're just like, it's like, oh, there's some fucking emotion. Yeah, that is sick. You are wrong for that. It's So fucking weird. And like, ultimately, it made me a very strong person, but I'm also an extremely anxious person too. And like—

You grew up with OCD, correct?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

When did that start? Like, when did you start realizing like, "Hey, I have an issue here with this"? 'Cause I'm OCD myself.

Okay. Well, I have— My OCD comes out in like very mild Tourette's. And I twitch constantly.— Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed about it.

No, it's beautiful.

It makes me mad because people are like, "She's tweaking," online. It's like, motherfucker, I used to be fucking tweaking and nobody said shit then. Now I'm fucking sober and now my Tourette's are fucking coming out 'cause I'm not even taking medications for it 'cause I'm just trying to come into my womanhood and be myself. And it's like, my hands twitch and it's so that my facial tics don't go crazy. But my OCD, I was diagnosed when I was in 6th grade, 'cause I had this whole number thing and this touching thing. I had to touch everything with 2 fingers, really intense stuff. And I was a compulsive eater. And that was something that a lot of people in my family had big issues with. And it's like—

Well, it's gotta be hard, 'cause your mom was a supermodel.

Yes.

And I'm sure your mom probably dealt with her own issues with eating too, because being in that industry, there's no way that you can't.

Cutthroat. So cutthroat. And she had to stay a size 6 consistently or she would not get work.

Yeah.

But my mom— see, my mom spun it in a way where she took her struggles and all the pressures that she felt her whole life, and she spun it into always telling me to love myself. And like, she had a chubby daughter because I felt like both of my parents had their like obsessions with eating. I'm probably gonna get in so much trouble for talking about this, but like, I don't I don't care. My mom will be proud.

I was going to say, I think that people need to hear this because not enough people do talk about it. You know, my husband struggles with the same thing and he's very open about it. And I think that there's a large number of kids that need to hear this too.

It's hard. It's so hard. And like, you think about, you know, all the things that someone could get addicted to. And ultimately, like, one, I've been addicted to all of them. Two, it's really like, it started with food for me and compulsive eating because it was like where I found comfort. And both of my grandmothers, they were, you know, like, they were huggable. They were heavier women. But they had so much trauma that they grew up with. And like, my grandmother saw her freaking brother get beheaded in the war in the Philippines.

Oh my goodness.

Like, so she would eat. Eat. And she would feed me, you know, she would feed me like lots of food. And then my grandmother, like—

And that's also a love language too.

100%. My grandmother in Ohio, my momma, like she could cook like nobody's business. And she would just like, "Baby, you want more? You want— let me feed you." And it was just so good. And I would put sweet cream corn on top of my mashed potatoes. And that's what I would eat. That's literally still to this day, my comfort food.

Sounds so good.

It's so delicious.

So good.

But like, maybe not good for you, but I guess subjective, right? And so I was like a really, really heavy child. My dad sent me to fat camp. I mean, yeah, it was rough. And then I got in trouble one year because I sprained my ankle and I didn't lose any weight. So it was like very toxic and very silly.

It's gotta be, how old were you when you got sent to the fat camp? Is it okay to call it a fat camp?

I mean, listen, hey, I called it that and that's what I went to.

I just wanna make sure I don't insult anybody 'cause I feel so bad.

It's awful, but like, the F word, the F word is like, is so triggering for me.

And for me too, because of my husband. And I've seen the effects of that word on people.

It's so awful.

And it's so hurtful. And so I never, you know, I just wanna make sure we pronounce it right.

It's so awful, but like, that's where he sent me to.

I remember him like— How old were you?

I went 2 summers in a row. I was 11 and 12. And it's like, um—

What do they do in these camps?

They literally like, you get like a slice of turkey and like steamed vegetables for like, like every meal, and they make you work out all day long.

That's not healthy though.

No.

And you need way more calories than that to make your metabolism.

Yeah, and also you need fucking therapy. Like, you need to talk about it.

There it is.

And you need to figure out like what is causing you to be—

There's no therapy in this?

I never, I never had therapy. Like, they did things that were like— adults went there too, and like, I think some people saw results. Um, I definitely—

Because they were starving themselves.

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't— And there was a lot of other stars' kids who went there. So that was sad. And I mean, it was such a—

That's gotta be traumatizing. That probably had to start your anger towards your father too.

Oh, yeah. 100%. But like, it got to a point where like, I never— I didn't want to spend a summer with him. And like, when I got kicked out of almost every school I went to. I got kicked out of— The first school that I went to in New York City was a school called York Prep. Up. And I don't know, I was probably— I refused to wear the uniform. I would like yell back at teachers and I always had problems with authority.

Me too. I got kicked out of every school I went to too.

See? I get it. But we're not dumb. We don't have a lack of intelligence. We probably just learn a different way than any kind of box structure that most people can, you know, function in a one-size-fits-all.

I think us as children, types of the types of women that we are, we also learned at a very young age that we were surrounded by people we did not want to be like.

Yeah.

I, I know that my family, I was just, I looked around at everybody and I'm like, you toxic [MASKED]. Not saying I wasn't, but I was just like, man, I am here to break a cycle.

Yes.

And I think that's, even though we didn't know that's what we were doing at such a young age, we're like rebels without a cause, but really we did have a We were sent here to shake shit up and break some chains.

Yeah. Even if it hurts, because unfortunately, we're also strong enough to be able to handle and carry that burden of hurt, because in some dark, twisted knife way, it will continue to push us. And I mean, I believe it that God never gives us anything that we can't handle. And sometimes it feels like, "Are you sure?" Yeah, last week, that's how I felt.

I was like—

You mean it?

Really, we good? Like, what's happening? Yeah.

Yeah. But I don't know. I think that now that I'm less destructive, I can see the blessings and the lessons in things much sooner. And I mean, literally, as these words are leaving my mouth, I'm like, listen to that bitch. Listen to this.

Yes. No. And when you're in it, it is so hard. And trust me, I get it. Like I said, I just went through it. In it. But it is like amazing what the mind can do because what the mind believes, the body will follow. And I always tell people that. And words are spells. And like, it doesn't matter what you say. If you say, you know, like, I feel like I'm gonna die, like that— and I have a problem saying stuff like that. Like, when I don't feel good, I'll be like, I feel like I'm gonna die. And then I have to correct myself and be like, no, no, I don't mean that. You know, like, you have to really be careful with what you say and what you put in the world.

Definitely.

Um, circling back, so you had said that you did not want to— you got to a point where you stopped wanting to go and spend summers with your dad.

Yeah, I mean I mean, like, he was filming this one, like, prison movie in, like, Stockton, California, in a prison.

Yeah. I was gonna say, there's not very many—

Yeah. No.

—cool, gang spots in Stockton.

Exactly.

Shout out the Diaz brothers.

Yeah. I had already started getting tattooed, and it was, like, 108 degrees, like, every single day. So I was having to wear sweaters because my dad was, like, very anti-tattoos or, like, any form of self-expression that differed from what he wanted for me. Not that he ever even thought about me, but—

You're killing my fantasy of Robin here. I'm so sorry. It's over. It's done. It's over with. I'm so sorry. I'm Team L all day.

Oh, I'm so sorry.

I'm Team L all day.

But, um, yeah, I just like— I would get in so much trouble. And now, like, a massive part, like, of like, I guess, little, little teas that have turned into massive paranoia— paranormal— wait, Wait, paranoia.

Yes.

What's paranormal?

I don't know. I was gonna say, is that like ghosts or something?

I don't know, but like be a ghoul, like—

Paranormal.

Ghoul dog name. I like spend one day in this like witchy house. It's cool. And I don't even remember what I was talking about.

Oh, dad. You had to wear sweaters, cover in the tattoos.

And so like I didn't want to be the— Oh, okay, okay. My little teeth. So I would get in so much trouble. Trouble if I ever— oh my gosh, if I ever messed up a shot or if I ever was like, like an arm in the camera or like if I ever was talking, like I would get in fucking trouble. And like I spent, you know, I'm really putting shit out there right now.

Okay.

But like my dad forgot about every single birthday. Like I spent my 18th birthday in a summer school. —like, class with, like, Algebra 1. And— 'cause if I didn't take it, I wouldn't graduate. And they brought me cupcakes, and I came home, my dad forgot my birthday.

Oh.

It's okay. I read an entire— But that's hurtful. Yeah, it's totally hurtful. But, like, you know what?

That shapes and molds you.

I put every— I put every ounce of my being into my son's birthday.

Oh.

Like, every birthday, even for my friends. That's the best mom. Like, every birthday. Because I know how it feels. To be forgotten on your birthday. And that's so sad. It's like, come on, it's my one fucking day. It's my one day.

Give me that.

Yeah, give me that. And so I stopped wanting to go. And then I got kicked out of school in New York in 6th or 7th grade. And my mom was like, I am done with her. I was being bad. I got my tongue pierced. My mom walked in on me and a boy. And she was like—

Mom's losing her shit.

Yes. And my mom is tough. My mom, like, My mom, like, she doesn't give up on me ever, but my mom was like, "She's fucking your problem." And he was like, "What do you want me to do with her?" And he was going to Amsterdam, so I was 14.

Oh, no.

And he took me to Amsterdam, and he— I mean—

Oh, no. That's not a recipe for disaster.

I've never helped people. My dad hired this 21-year-old sweet, sweet— she was an Indian young woman. She was a virgin, and her name was Amin, and she was I was like, she was lovely. And every single day I'd say, let's go to the flower markets. And I would be like, oh yeah, wow, look at those tulips. And then I would dip back behind. I'd like watch her freak out looking for me. And I'd go straight to the red light district. I still to this day roll the best joints ever. But like, I wanted culture. I wanted to see things. And I didn't want every single day I would ditch the nanny and she didn't wanna lose her job. So she never told my dad.

Aw.

So I basically just spent however many months we were there in Amsterdam. I had, I mean, I would go to like my, my homeschool, like teacher. I was like, I don't even, I was learning some Dutch and French or something, but like I never paid attention. I can always distract somebody. Like I had this one tutor, I'd be like, oh, you're into Dungeons and Dragons? That's cool. Like, I don't really wanna learn about like science, man. And, um, and then, you know, like one time we went to any time anytime my dad would like have me on a trip, he would like forget that he had me. And so he— I know, I know, 'cause he's not a great planner.

Is that— that's the least of his worries.

Yeah. And so he took me to Russia with him.

Oh, no.

I was probably 18. Actually, but the thing is like, I refuse to like waste a trip.

Yeah. I love that even at such a young age, you were like, "Motherfucker, I'm here to live." Yeah.

Yeah. We were in Russia and he was in a basement getting ready to do some TV show. He had 2 security guards and I was like, "Hey, hey, we're in Moscow. I'm not sitting in this basement TV studio." I was like, "I'm gonna go out." And he would always just be reading something like, "Whatever, take one of the security guards with you." I was like, "Great." So this beautiful Russian tuxedo fucking wearing young handsome security guard I was like, "What do you do in Moscow?" And he's like, "Do you like to ride rides?" And I was like, "I fucking love rides!" Takes me to an amusement park, rides all the fucking rides with me.

Aww.

Is in, like, photo booth pictures with me. Takes me to get, like, the big Russian hat. And then, like, I had started to lose some of my, like, teenage weight. And he was staying with, like, this very— my dad was, like, there for this, like, really rich lady. And she let me buy this, like, La Perla gown and, like, heels because they had some fashion show. And I was like— I'm such a tomboy, I don't know how to walk in heels. And there was, like, 25 steps down from this party. And the guy was like, "Nikolaj." He picked me up, walks me down the steps, opens the limo with me in his arms, and, like, sets me down. And I was like, "Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you." So did you and Nikolaj ever hook up?

—No, no, no, no, no. But, you know, I think of him fondly. It's just like, that was like my bodyguard moment.

What's baby daddy's name? Dan, you're not listening. Dan, you're not listening right now.

We're never going to Russia together.

Yeah. Yeah. Fucking Dan. Dan's like, "We're never going to Russia, baby." Damn it. Damn it, Nikolai.

Tell him that Nikolai story.

That or he's gonna be like, "Next time we have sex, call me Nikolai." Okay, I love that.

I love that. Babe, just pick me up. I love that.

So circling back though, you did say that your stepfather influenced your trajectory into music. Take me on that journey.

So my stepdad, his name is Justin, and he met my mom. He was the lead singer in this rock and roll band in Columbus called Bob City. Amazing rock and roll. And my mom started dating him and her best friend was dating somebody else in the band. And so—

We love band boys around here.

Yes, yes. And I just had, like, rock and roll people all around me. And he still to this day has the best record collection I've ever seen. And, like, he came into our lives when I was, like, I don't know, maybe 6, 6 or 7. And I remember being, like, so young and, like, he didn't care, sticky-fingered kids and all, just like, He would let me go through all the records and he'd be like, "You like that? Listen to this." Like, my— some of my earliest memories of, like, singing along to music is, like, my first, like, time singing, like, into a hairbrush in the mirror is, like, Captain and Tennille, "Love Will Keep Us Together." It's 'cause he had all these records. And he would just— he would say, like— he still makes, like, New Music Friday playlists that he, like, sends out to all of his friends 'cause he just has the coolest taste in music. And— Yeah. He just shaped me. And so when we moved to New York, my mom always had me, like, you always have to have some kind of extracurricular. 'Cause I think she knew, like, academics were not gonna be my, you know, the foot that I lead with.

So I always—

I love that, the foot that I lead with.

Yeah. So I would, like, I was taking violin at 4 years old, or I would, you know, anytime I wanted to quit something, she'd be like, you can quit it, but you have to replace it with something. I tried ice skating. I sports not my thing. Summer, like water stuff, that's me. But frozen stuff, no. And, or like piano, vocal lessons. And when we moved to New York, his best friend and one of his bandmates, Joakim, super talented guitar player, he taught me how to play guitar. And it was just kind of on from there. And the way he taught me, it was just like, he's like, I can't teach you how to read music, but I can teach you how to play all your favorite songs. And I can help you like learn how to sing along to it. Yeah. Of it. And that's how— because I, I think also because I studied Suzuki, which is an ear training method on violin, I think I, I'm more attuned to stringed instruments. So I can kind of pick up like almost, you know, like a guitar, a bass, a violin, a, um, a mandolin, banjo, anything.

And, and kind of—

that's a talent too, though. That's a talent. Not everybody can do that.

Jack of all trades, master of none. But that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay, I can—

I feel like she's like my soul sister. Like everything, it's so crazy. It's a talent though, 'cause I actually was taught how to read music, so I can read music, but I can't, if I hear something, I can't play it. So I've always been envious of people who can do that. I think that's such a beautiful thing.

Well, maybe we have to start a band.

I'll do it, I'll do it. And then we'll go on tour with Daddy Roll.

Yes, yes. I mean, listen, I had fun on that tour. I loved it.

Oh, we had a blast, dude.

Oh my gosh, when I saw you guys at Stagecoach, like, he came, like, during the show, came over and like gave me a big hug. Like, but that's, that's like, that's who Jelly Roll is.

We love Elle, man.

Aww, I love you guys.

You're just a little light, you know? You remind me of like fairy energy, and don't take that the wrong way, but like—

No, I don't. One of my past lives, she was like, you were fae in like the beginning times of Earth.

Ah, I love that. No, you do, you just have this twinkle about you, and it doesn't matter what you're going through, it's like you are always just trying to make everybody happy. Happy around you.

Aw.

And I just love that about you.

I feel like I was like, I saw a lot of things back in Hollywood where like you didn't get in trouble for how you treated people. And I'll never forget like seeing how like after someone got yelled at, for instance, how that made someone feel.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm sure there's a lot of people who have worked for me who would be like, she's a fucking bitch. And I am not a perfect person. I have grown a lot and I've eaten shelves of humble pie. But I really do believe, especially just for where I'm at now, everything that has brought me to here, it's like all I can control is my reaction. And I've been a very reactive person my whole life. But if I continue to put out what I hope to receive, then I can feel the path of my life and the trajectory of my joy going to where I hope it lands. And that's just like waking up, making choices. I look at my son Lucky, I say, "We're choosing kindness today, buddy." I love his name. Thank you.

So cute.

We got lucky with him, so.

I love that. And I think as unforgiving as the world feels, they love to see growth. And I think them just hearing this podcast is going to change their entire perception of you.

Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. And like, I'm obsessed with you.

You. So girl, you come here anytime, baby. You can sit on my couch every year. I do not care. I always have space.

We have to, we have to see the evolution of growth. We really do.

So see you next year. Yeah, seriously. Um, so take me on this journey to, of your first album that you dropped in 2015. Like, how do, what were the steps that led up to that? Cuz not everybody can just get an album and a record deal and all that stuff.

No, it, it's pretty crazy. I, I mean, I've been playing shows since I was I was like 15 years old, and my mom was always super, super supportive. And like, she would help me sneak into bars. She knew that I had a fake ID. And like, she— I had a talent for it. And like, I had— I started writing songs at like 14 years old. And then once I started playing the banjo, it was like— it was different.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I kind of stood out. And so I was playing country songs in— New York and I was getting residencies at 18, 19 years old. And then this— a manager found out about me and I had already left New York, was living in LA, losing my mind, going kind of crazy like, "LA is not for me." I always find that fascinating because it's like most people who grew up in New York can't handle LA. Yeah.

And most people who grew up in LA can't handle New York.

Right.

I grew up in Vegas and LA, so when I go to New York, I'm like overstimulated.

Yeah, no, it can be a lot. Like, I don't— I romanticize about, like, New York, and I really love going back to visit now, 'cause my mom and dad, my stepdad, still live there, and my son loves going to New York, so it's always, like, a really fun time now. I just don't— I got very accustomed to having, like, acreage, even if it's 5. Yeah.

You know?

I have a four-wheeler. Right now I'm like, I cruise around the neighborhood. I don't have acreage, but we're buying another house. And I love four-wheelers and golf carts. And like, I have a tractor in my East Nashville, like, yard.

Come out this way.

You know what? We're looking. And it's like 20 minutes away from here.

Yay.

So it's really, really beautiful. I just— Mama needs a pool.

Yeah.

So I got to swim.

Yes, ma'am.

So I—

We were talking about you getting your, you know, you dropped your first album, music journey.

I moved to LA and I just like was always playing shows. I didn't, I wasn't signed, nothing. And then this manager, assistant—

Did your dad ever try to help you? Not to cut you off, but did he?

No, no, no, no, no.

You didn't want his help?

No, and honestly, I didn't talk to my dad. I go for like 4 or 5 years without talking to my dad.

Understandable.

So I got signed I released my album, everything. Honestly, when I put out my record and people finally started to ask about my dad, my dad called me and was like, "Don't fucking talk about me in the press." Like, all right. Okay, great. But also it's like, get fucked. I don't care. Like, hey, listen, people have asked me about your fucking ass for years. And I'm like, you're talking out your ass and you're talking shit about drag and fucking— Yeah. Anti-gay rights, and it's like, get fucked.

Oh, no, I never heard that. I didn't know that.

Well, he's just talking out of his ass, and I want to use this opportunity to say I disagree. I do not agree with what he says. I believe in all forms of love, and I just believe in anyone finding their happiness and their joy in whatever way, whatever capacity that is. There are no politics when it comes to love.

Absolutely.

That's it. And so, yeah, he never helped me. I never wanted his help. He also didn't have a very good relationship reputation, so I didn't want— that was really it. It wasn't even like a lot of like, "I've gotta pay my own way." I was like, "I don't wanna be associated with him." And I'm gonna get in trouble for saying that, but I don't care.

Good reputation as in like working with him? Like he just—

He's not nice.

Right, gotcha.

He's not nice. And so, and I wanted to be nice. My whole thing is like I always want people to wanna work with me again. And not everyone can say that because I'm not perfect. And like I've fucked up a lot. Like, okay.

We all learn and we all grow.

Yeah, but my label hasn't dropped me. And I, okay, so I went in, it was Christmas of probably 2014. I was maybe 22 years old. And I go into an empty office and it was before Sony bought EMI. And this guy named Jake Ottman, I just went in with my banjo and I played a song called "Good to Be a Man." And he signed me right on the spot. So I got a publishing deal. He sent that song to Peter Edge, who's the chairman of RCA. And I'd been kinda talking to some labels, and everyone was sorta, like, dicking me around. And RCA was, like, the first— I mean, mind you, they had Elvis, and they had so many bands that, like, I really loved. And they were, like, always, like, full steady, like, always consistent, never made me feel like they were dicking me around or anything or, like, weirdly courting me. They were just cool and great, and I felt like they truly believed in me. Mm-hmm.

Me. Which is rare for record labels.

Yes, which is very rare. And like, even though I found out that like men were getting $10 million deals, I didn't get a lot of money for mine, but I felt like they believed in me, and my first album had great success. I mean—

It was a great album.

Thank you. X's and O's was awesome.

Ain't Nobody's Baby.

Yeah.

That was my shit, girl. That and Mean was my shit. Oh, thank you. "Queen" is a great song, man.

Thank you so much.

I love that.

Well, I'm trying to get back to that whole aspect of, like, just writing. I don't know, it's hard. I think it was Bob Dylan, I don't know who said it, but you have your whole life to write your first album and then a year to write your next one. And it's just strange. And I got, like, a lot of nominations on that first album. I topped a lot of charts and then I kept going and it makes me uncomfortable to say, but I'm also very proud to like I've broken a lot of records. And as like, I think back to like 11-year-old chubby me, like Ellie, like at fat camp, and people always saying like, "You're not gonna ever do anything." It's like, "Um." You did it on your own too. Yes, I did. Eat it, eat it up.

Suck it while it's soft.

Yes. And I'm very proud and I want my son to know that. And sometimes I think about like, at what age do I tell my son like, "Son, don't Google me." No. 'Cause stuff will come up.

What's he gonna find out? A mom that speaks her mind and doesn't take shit? I don't know. I mean, that's respectable to me. I don't have a problem with a woman who stands her ground. Granted, there's a couple situations that you've owned up to.

Yeah.

But just because your mistakes happen online and in front of people doesn't mean that other people aren't making similar mistakes behind closed doors.

They just aren't on a fucking grand TikTok.

Exactly, exactly.

But America loves a comeback story. And I will say, if I didn't come back out the gate swinging and with my shit together and putting on great shows, I put a lot of effort, energy, and money into this. I have an opportunity. I have an opportunity to show that I've grown, that I am better than ever, that like, that is not— that might be one facet. Like, my mess-ups are— they are part of me, and they are part of— ultimately, I feel like I learn more. I always say like, expensive lessons are like the best to learn.

Yeah.

'Cause like, ooh, I can't afford to make that one again.

Yeah.

And so like, they're a part of me. Put it where it hurts.

Yeah.

But like, I can kind of look back and laugh and just be like, wow, that was like— I was like, "That was so crazy." And it wasn't even that long ago that I was like, "I don't wanna wake up. I don't wanna fucking be here. Maybe the world is better, maybe it is better off without me." And to think now I'm like, "Wow, that was pretty crazy." I was like, "Oof, probably should've eaten that day." And I feel like it's very much behind me and I feel so distanced from it and I feel like I'm happier.

'Cause you're not the same person.

I'm not.

And if Dolly can forgive you, the world can forgive you.

Totally. But I also think that, I was like, there's such a massive part of that that like helped me get to this like point where I'm the happiest I've ever been. I'm not putting as much pressure on. I was like, I had so much pressure that I was putting on myself to like lose all my baby weight. And like, I was like just, I was going crazy. I was losing my mind. And now I'm like, you know what? I think I'm okay. I don't need to meet anybody's standards but mine. I'm healthier than I've ever been. You look beautiful. Thank you. My brain is good. I'm like, I'm taking healthy medication. There's nothing wrong with antidepressants. In fact, they're great for you.

So you are on medication?

Yeah.

Were you taking it for your postpartum or did postpartum cause you to get on them?

No, I was refusing to take any antidepressants because I felt like, there's all these weird things and I don't know if it's OCD or just obsessive thinking, but I, I really, like, I didn't want to get on it. I don't know if maybe part of it was like, I don't want to gain weight, I don't want to be sleepy, I don't want to feel like I can't create. Because I've, I've tried to take a lot of, like, antidepressants before in my life, and sometimes they made me feel like I couldn't create or anything. But I also thought that I had to be, like, high off my fucking mind to, like, make a record in a month in the studio with my friends. It's like, that's actually like not conducive and it's not good for like anyone.

Yeah.

And you're a mom now. And so I finally was like, all right, I reached this point of give me anything that will make me not feel sad.

Yeah.

Give me anything that will make me feel more confident and less anxious because I don't wanna feel like this. And I got to it and I figured it out and like, I take antidepressants and I feel great and I feel happy and I don't know. I just think that when you—

There's nothing wrong if you need it.

No, there's nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, I'm like, you should take therapy and if you might need medication, you should take it. But I also love Eastern medicine. I love acupuncture. I think a massage goes a long fucking way. Talk therapy is incredible, even on the computer. And I just, where I'm at now, I'm like, tell me what to do. And when it used to be like, I don't want to fucking hear it. Now, what works? Throw this noodle at this wall and if it sticks, I'll take it. That's good. I just want to be happy. And I've learned that if I can be the best person for me, that actually makes me a better mother for my son.

Yeah.

Because I can't be doing any of this for anybody else. Else. I have to do it for me because then I can be firm, steady, and grounded. And then that, like, when my cup is full, that's when I can give to other people. And I've just noticed that I could be so much more present, and I can, I can just be— I don't know, I wasn't such a bitch to Dan, and he was like, he started to soften.

And like, let's talk about Dan and Lucky. Let's talk about that area of your life.

Oh, I I love them so much.

Yeah. I see you light up. I see you light up when you talk about them, your stepfather and your mom. You just get this like twinkle in your eye.

Family's so important to me. And sometimes it's your chosen family, you know?

Amen. I got my chosen family. Jay, Bailey, those are my chosen family. Like I just, I don't know what I would do without them, you know?

Yeah. They're like, they just become like our sturdy rock. And I think I was, I've been really selfish a lot, a lot in my life because I'm such a hard, hard worker. But I didn't wanna make a lot of the same mistakes that I grew up seeing. Seeing. And, um, and so, like, again, like, this thing that happened, like, in January, like, it just— it just changed me. And I— I've— I faced a lot of stuff from my childhood that, like, I felt like I could put to bed. And now I'm starting to— I've been, like, given this opportunity to, like, meet me where I'm at now and start working on these issues in my, like, adult life and, like, all my unhealthy things. And like, you know, you're only as sick as your secrets, right? And so I'm like, you have to tell on yourself and you have to be honest and truthful. And like I said before, like, I started to treat Dan how I would just hope that he would treat me because we were, you know, fighting pretty bad. And neither of us— you can't be heard if you're not listening.

Mm-hmm. Our communication was really not in a great way. We were, like, speaking different languages, and it was all rooted from a place of fear and all rooted from a place of hurt.

Right person, wrong time.

Yeah. And then once we started to, like, "Hey, you can't talk—" Like, "We can't talk to each other like this. Like, this is not okay. Lucky can't be around this." And we just started to— to respect each other. And I, I think maybe there is some of that missing even in our prior relationship. And so this doesn't feel like we got back together. He, he kept saying like, it's a new relationship, babe, like we have to take it slow. And I was like, let's get fucking married, let's get married right now. And he's like, I want to take it slow, like we owe it to ourselves. And I'm listening to him and like I want him to be, you know, like I want him to feel like a man and a strong man. And I think as someone who's a performer and someone who's like, you know, I don't really think of myself as like a famous person, but I am, you know?

You are. And you've earned it. You've worked your ass off, babe.

Yeah. But I know that it can be like an emasculating thing to date like or be partnered with someone who's like a strong female, especially one like I've got, reputation. It's like, oh, she's a badass and she fucking can really go toe to toe with the boys. And while that's all true, I also, I want to be like a soft feminine wife and loving partner and also have someone love me. You can be both. Yes. Love me for both. And he does. And I need to love him and I need to celebrate his masculine. And I also need to totally celebrate my favorite part, which is his soft soft, silly, sweet. Because our, our like funny neck tattooed guys are usually the sweetest teddy bears.

Yes, absolutely.

And that's what we love because we're tough-ass chicks, right?

Well, I had to learn that with Jay, you know, because I came into the situation with just so much baggage. And I mean, I was like a fucking just a, like a, just a force to be reckoned with. And I came in and I just was so used to emasculating every man that I had ever been with. I make the "Hey honey, don't fuck. I'm gonna fight." And I finally, I don't think it's said enough as couples, especially when you are having communication issues, to be able to sit down and look at each other and say, "Hey, we can't talk to each other like that." That changes everything.

Yeah.

And my husband and I had to sit down and do that. And we've had the best relationship since. Communication is key. Comprehension is vital. And it's like, you literally have to be in, you are fighting dragons with this person every day. That is your fucking teammate, your fucking co-conspirator. Like, you guys are literally slaying this thing called life together, and you guys have to be on the same page. If not, that ship's not gonna sail.

And it's a choice. I've struggled with like, okay, how do people get married? Like, what is it? How do you like really know? And like, do you just pick? Do you just choose? Because that's why like when you're just talking about that, I'm like, hanging on every word. 'Cause like, you know, I don't think Dan wouldn't be upset from like with me saying like, you know, we're doing couples therapy and like we're trying everything.

No, therapy. Jen and I have done so much therapy. I just had a therapy appointment before you came in here.

Right. But that's beautiful. And like it makes your bond stronger. And like honestly, I asked him, it was like such divine timing. This therapist who basically like kicked us out because I, I asked if you would go to couples therapy with me, and we had gotten into like a big fight.

That happened to Jana.

'Cause he liked this booty girl on Instagram, and I was mad. And so we walked in, we sat like there could have been an ocean between us, and we were fighting, and she was like, "I don't think that I can continue to see you guys, blah blah blah." And it was not great. But then she emailed me, and we weren't together, but we were like in a really great flow of things, and she was like, "Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I'm starting to take new patients again, and I didn't know where you guys were at in your journey." And I was like, "Oh wow, we're actually doing really, really well." And I asked him, I was like, "Hey, do you think you wanna go to couples therapy?" And he was like, "Yeah." And I said, "Just as friends, just so we can help our communication?" He was like, "Yeah, I think I would like that a lot." And then a week later we were like, Back together.

And all you guys needed was a conversation.

Yes.

A conversation of two people actually wanting to listen to each other.

Yeah.

Can change so much.

Yes. And it's really, really crazy what happens when you put down the receipts and you put down the swords and you don't yell.

Yes.

And you just like take a second. And like, that's not my strong suit. It is not my strong suit. I was made to fight. I grew up in a yelling family. That's just how we communicated. And it wasn't even like, nobody wins in that. That. Not even the loudest person. Everyone just is like in fight or flight and shaking with adrenaline. It's like—

Looking like Ren and Stimpy.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's not good. And I think we both like grew, grew up with a lot of that because that's— no one told anybody. No one told anyone that that's wrong until recently. Now everyone tells you that you're wrong for anything that you do.

Oh yeah, yeah. Sometimes I'm, I'm kind of like, all right, enough, you know? Yes, of course. But definitely like speaking softer to each other. We don't yell in our house. I think I've yelled at our daughter one time and she really deserved it. Yeah, like I just, we don't, because I grew up in a screaming household also. So I can't, if you start yelling at me, I'm automatically shutting you out. Yeah, like I can't listen to it.

And but also if you think about it, like even going back to like not toxic people, but like, you know who does win an argument? The calmest motherfucker.

Because they'll piss you off even more.

Yeah, because they'll get you. Like, I'm like You know, like any, like, teacher— like, I just think about, like, principals who are like, talk like this, like, you fucking asshole. Yeah, but like, that's how, like, I want to be. But I also— I want to be able to get to that. Yes. And I'm not there. I'm like peeling the layer back. I'm like, maybe leather one.

I'm done. I'm don't start none, won't be none. Okay. Oh, I like that.

I like that. I just want to be the mom that, like, my son comes to no matter what. If he gets arrested, God forbid, I mean, I'll let I'll let him sit. I'll keep that tradition in my family. My mom said, "You get arrested, I'll let you sit in there." But I've never been arrested.

Yay.

I know, shocker.

Good job. That is awesome. I've been arrested, so that's crazy. How have you never gotten arrested?

I know. I've been handcuffed twice, but like, I'm very smooth with my words.

If you make a love— You make a cop laugh. That's the same way. He can get out of handcuffs at any time. I'm like, "You motherfucker, dude." He's very charming. He is. He is so fucking charming. I'm like, "I hate you." He can get out of speeding tickets. I get them all. No way. It doesn't matter. And you would think it would be opposite 'cause they always say, "Oh, cops let pretty girls off." Not saying I'm pretty, but you know, just saying.

You're beautiful.

Just saying that it's like a myth, you know? And no, my husband gets off on every ticket. They fucking stick it to me every fucking time, man.

I only got one speeding ticket, also shocker, I know. And it was in my hometown.

I can't believe they gave it to you though.

I know, she goes, "I know who you are." Oh, it was a chick. "But I still have to give you this ticket." I was like, "Damn it!" And then she came to the show.

Oh!

She even commented 'cause I took a video 'Cause I was like, man, I never get pulled over. And I took a video of like, uh-oh. She commented on it. She was like, I was the one who gave you the ticket, but we loved your show, me and my girls. I was like, come on, this is like $85.

I love that, that is so funny. So what's happening now with Elle? You are on your redemption tour. What's it called? Baby Daddy's Weekend tour. Baby Daddy's Weekend tour.

And I am just playing lots of music. I'm about to finish. Finished my album. I have a lot of music coming out. I'm really, really excited about it. And it's— I always say, like, this album is the most me. But, like, I think anything that I'm working on is, like, where I'm at in my life. And I'm very proud of the music that I'm making. And I started making a lot of it before I, like, had a nervous breakdown this year. [LAUGHTER] And it's bringing me back to life, just, like, creating again and, like, having these, like, seeds planted and then making this beautiful album. So it's definitely gonna be a little different than my last 3 albums, but I don't think that— even though all my records have sound— they all sound like me, I don't think any of them have sounded, like, exactly the same. But, like, my music is a representation of where I'm at in my life.

What is it more like? Is it country?

It's a country. Yeah, it's definitely a country album. But it's really beautiful, and it's what country is to me, and everything that I've kind of learned in the country world. And I feel like these are gonna be the songs— like, I don't play every song from every album at every show, but there's a lot of songs on this album that, like, I'll play for the rest of my life.

Mm.

And that makes me really proud and excited. And I'm also sitting on an album that I made when I was pregnant. Pregnant before I went to country. And I'm like, "Drunk and I Don't Want to Go Home," I wrote 8 years before it ever came out. And so that song taught me so much about the life of music. And so I'm also sitting on an album that's really, really incredible. And I'm just waiting for the right time for that to come out, because it's probably the best album I've ever made.

Drop that shit. I know, I know. What are we waiting for?

I don't know. I think after this big, that big eclipse, right?

Yeah.

Everything is supposed to be like, all the seeds that we planted, I don't know if it's the same for every star sign, but like a lot of things are coming to fruition from like the last 8 years.

Yes.

And so everything that I've been really, really working on is all coming to a head in a good way. And I think it's the same if you believe in that and if you believe in yourself and if you are manifesting these good things, that you're putting out in the universe, it makes so much sense if you're into astrology or astronomy or anything like that, how all this stuff can be coming. Even the crazy lessons that I've learned this year, I feel like all these things are leading me to these manifestations of things that I've been maybe too afraid to try. And when I was thinking about doing— I wanna be cool, man, to be a bad guy in a movie. Mm-hmm. I did a movie. I just did my first actual really, really cool movie.

Yay!

And it's all things like you just have to try and continue to put yourself out there. It's not the first movie that I've ever done, but this is the first time that I really prepared, I worked so hard to get it. And all these things that, all these good things that are like, "Hey, wouldn't that be cool?" And just thinking about it and putting it out and dreaming about it, that's manifesting. That's pulling it, that's inviting it. And I always say—

Visualizing that it's already yours.

Yeah. Yes. And I say you have to make room in your life for greatness. And like, you have to clear things out. You have to like cut things off. And that's how, like, you know, like you have to clip like buds on roses sometimes. But that's how more roses— I'm not a great gardener, but I do have some roses.

That's been on— I'm manifesting to learn how to fucking garden. It's hard. I want to. I know. I can't even— I can't even fucking save a sunflower from the grocery store. Listen, I've tried twice.

I, I tried to like mulch and put— I'm trying to like, cuz what, like the— your house is a representation of your mind, right? So I was like, my house looks like shit. So I tried to garden and now all the grass is growing up through the mulch and it's like, oh my God.

That's why you need landscapers. It's so hard. Yeah, you got to have— you have to have people help you.

I know, I know. I'm really trying to fight this stubbornness.

Yeah, you got— you can't do it all, Ella. All right, I think your lesson this year is you can't do it all, baby.

Ask for help, Elle.

Yeah, allow people to help you, baby. You need just, get a fucking landscaper, okay? It'll make you feel better.

Okay. Yes.

Elle, thank you so much for this conversation. It was so sweet and I can't wait to have you back and I can't wait to see this tour. I can't wait for people to hear this podcast. I really feel it's gonna touch a lot of their hearts and they get to just see a glimpse inside of you and I just, I love it.

You're so beautiful and you spread so much amazing positivity and I'm so proud of you. I just, I appreciate you. Thank you for having me on. I love you so much, Bunny. You're, you're amazing.

We're gonna make out after this. Don't tell Dan.

Don't tell Dan. Don't tell Dan. But I will tell my mom.

Yeah. Ah, shout out mom. Shout out mom. We love you. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I'll see you guys next week. Bye.