Transcript of Ezra Koenig

Hi, my name is Ezra Koenig, and I feel cautiously optimistic about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

I think that's wise.

Father's here. Hear the yell back to school ring.

The bell bend the shoes, walk and lose climb the fence books and pens.

I can tell that we are gonna be friends?

I can tell that we are gonna be friends hey, there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend find program today. Matt Gorley joining us. Hi. Good to see you. And Sona Mosesian. And a happy birthday to you.

Oh, thank you.

You had your birthday yesterday.

Yesterday, yeah, but, you know, I celebrate all month, but that's okay.

Yeah. What's that all about?

I just. I like it.

Yeah. I also get confused by your Christmas celebrations because you celebrate real Christmas but also armenian Christmas.

Ours is real Christmas. Yours is Christmas.

What I just said, and I wasn't even trying to be funny was very offensive. It was, and I, and I apologize. Oh, um. Oh, yeah. Because I shouldn't have said real Christmas. I'm sure people think of the Christmas on December 25, and you guys celebrate.

It when, January 6.

Yeah, I'm sure that now January 6.

Is, like, for something else.

Well, yes, of course. Well, there's a theory that the fracas, I call it fracas, at the Capitol occurred, and I later on looked it up. Everyone participating in that. It was 98% Armenians. No. And that they were rushing. They were rushing the capitol to exchange, to give gifts to each other.

Oh.

I thought to get the trees left over.

It was just a misunderstanding. It was an armenian Christmas, and people, it just happened to be. The capital was in the way.

Oh, okay. Okay. There were a lot of good sales.

They were on their way to celebrate armenian Christmas.

That's right.

And it was like, God, we could go around the capital. Let's go through it. Listen, all right.

My birthday was yesterday.

Your birthday was yesterday.

Yeah.

So you celebrate all month, but is everyone else obligated to celebrate your birthday all month?

She always did this when she was my assistant. She would keep bringing up, it's my birthday month.

Yes.

And it was kind of a nightmare.

It's not a nightmare. Isn't it just a nice way to see people and just be like, hey.

It'S, no, you wanted, it was like extortion.

You wanted gifts.

It's not a slippery slope where you start going, it's my birthday year, and then suddenly it's eternally your birthday.

Wouldn't that be great?

Well, don't let me give you any ideas.

And then it turns into my birthday here. I just like seeing people, and especially now, it's harder for me to see people because I have family obligations. And so I like to use it as an excuse to, like, go to dinner.

That's nice.

Yeah, sure.

Everybody should do it.

Let's get back to Armenian Christmas now.

Oh, God, no.

No. Armenian Christmas. Armenian is the oldest sect of Christianity. Is that correct?

Armenians are the first to adopt it as their national religion.

That's right.

Yes.

Yes. That's the correct way to say it. I'm glad. I'm glad I educated you.

You didn't educate me.

Pretty much. You're welcome.

I knew that.

Let me teach you more about Armenia.

You're gonna teach me about Armenia?

Yeah.

What? No, you're not.

I think I know more about it than you.

Yeah, you might know more about the soviet shares.

Armenian. Oh, really? Yeah.

You're kidding.

Doctor Kavorkian.

Why do you always do doctor Kavorkian?

Those are your two big ones. Yeah.

No, let's not do the armenian list again.

Okay. Here's the thing I will say to you. You do both, though, right? You do? Yeah. We don't like when people do both. Yeah.

Pick one.

Pick one.

Why? I'm an Armenian American.

You're taking gifts away from us?

Yes. I don't, because then I feel like. But guess what? I believe that's true.

So really? Us versus them mentality.

I didn't start this.

Yeah. I'm tired of immigrants coming into this country and taking Christmas gifts from me.

Oh, Eduardo, Eduardo.

That's just the way it is. If you come into this country and you celebrate more than one Christmas, we've got a problem. What if we take the gifts you guys didn't even want?

Yes. Thank you.

Oh. Oh, my God. This is. Man, the metaphors here are blowing my knife.

Cause there is a lot of re gifting at Christmas for white elephants and things.

Yeah. Why is it called a white elephant?

This is really blowing my mind. So you're saying that you guys are taking the gifts that we don't want? Yes, but then bitching about it. Right? All right.

White elephant. White Christmas.

Yes.

Holy shit.

Why.

Wait, but why is it January 6? Was Jesus born on January 6? I know December 25 isn't really the right way, right?

I don't know. Eduardo, you are married. Your wife is armenian. Correct.

And in mexican american culture. Or mexican culture, also, January 6 is.

Celebrated because of the Three Kings day.

Three Kings day.

The Georgia.

So it's possible you're really tangling this thing up more than it needs to be. So January 6. It's also Elvis birthday, so technically it's four kings.

No, Elvis birthday is January 8.

It is? Yeah.

That's my dad's birthday, too.

Yeah. Wait, your dad is born on January 7? Wait, you. Wait a minute, Blay. You waited to interject. You wanted to make sure you had something good, and you jumped in with Elvis birthday, and you were wrong? Yes. That's fucking crazy. I'm sorry. You're like a guy that waited outside a house in case there's trouble. It caught fire, other people put it out, and then long after the fire was out, you came rushing in and threw fluffernutter all over the place. And I set the fire myself because I didn't need dinner.

Dinner.

And his birthday is actually January 8.

Yeah.

Not the 6th, the 7th.

Oh, sorry, I thought you said the 7th. Can we straighten one thing out?

No, I think everything's very clear.

We've determined that January 6 was when the Capitol was attacked. It was an insurrection. But also armenian Christmas. Yes, but also three Kings day. Correct. Is it possible that a lot of the crowd. And I'm not making excuses, but is it possible that many people in the crowd were excited about armenian Christmas and three Kings day? And should we look into this? And then they were on their way to some big festivity, and fucking capital's on the way. Is that possible? And yes, there's ways to. But oftentimes I found it's better to smash doors and go through.

Oh, you do?

And then later on the left is like, this is an insurrection. Excuse me. Poll the crowd. How many were celebrating three Kings day?

They arrested a lot of people who were there. And nobody mentioned armenian Christmas.

Well, I think after the fact you'd. You know what?

You're embarrassed.

Yeah, probably embarrassed.

And you don't want to smirch it.

Yeah, you don't want to besmirch it.

What if someone was like, it's Elvis birthday.

Maybe they were early for Elvis birthday, which is on the 8th. Guess what? There were like nine people. The guy wearing the buffalo horn hat.

The bison dude.

The bison dude. He was there celebrating Elvis birthday. And like, most insane people wearing a bison hat, he was two days off.

Yeah. And two people there were celebrating my dad's birthday. Yeah.

I just think the Justice Department should really figure out how much of the crowd was celebrating other stuff. Yeah, and just got confused.

Or blaze birthday too. Maybe they were there for blaze birthday.

When is your birthday?

January 7.

Were you there?

You know what? There is usually a big crowd in Washington that gathers the day before Blay's birthday. And then they quickly remember that they're off by a day, and so they try to rush to where Blay is, and oftentimes the capital's in the way. I just think this is an alternate. It should be an alternate history show where we explore other possibilities.

I like this.

Yeah. Yeah.

In fact, stay tuned for the third act segment of this episode, and we'll be back with another alternate historical possibility.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Booth was just angry that Lincoln was blocking his view of what was happening.

In the theater down in front of him.

He paid up. Yeah. Sir, he's tall. Sir. Sir. Remove that hat.

Sir.

Ouch. I'll remove that hat when I'm no longer president, you whippersnapper. If only I had a right derringer. Blam. Alternate history.

Is that your Lincoln impression?

Well, I tell you, four score and seven years ago.

That's not. That's.

You know what I will tell you. Many people don't understand what Lincoln really sounded like. He had a high, reedy voice. Many people give him a four score in seven years.

Yes.

No, he did not have that voice. He was described at the time.

I like the other one.

I know, but I'm being my accurate. Lincoln is wee. Look who's here.

No, don't do that.

I'll take off my hat, Booth, once you settle down. But I'm trying to enjoy my american cousin.

See, why are you wearing a hat in the theater, though, too, right?

He didn't take it off. It was a thing with Lincoln. He was a real prick about it. Yeah, he refused. Now, what are you talking about?

I don't know.

Nothing here is real.

Let me just remap the thread of this conversation.

I made up that he refused to take his hat off.

Okay?

Of course he took his hat off. It would be in the Tasmanian right now with a big hole in it.

But the Armenians going through the capital to get to Armenian Christmas is real.

Why do you think we should investigate? Okay, that's all I'm saying.

Wait, but what is his.

It was high and reedy.

It was high and reedy.

That's real.

Didn't Daniel Day Lewis kind of play it that way?

Yeah, Daniel Day Lewis gave him the real voice that they think he had. And a lot of theater goers were like, what? He doesn't sound like James Earl Jones, and that's not what Lincoln sounded like. So we actually did get a little historical fact out of this, despite my best attempts. And now you're convinced that booth shot Lincoln. Cause he didn't take his stovepipe hat off, and it gave Booth an obstructed view.

I'm only not convinced because you keyed me in that. That was false.

Yeah.

So thank you. I now know the truth.

But that would have been warranted.

Okay, terrible. A terrible segment. A segment spoken.

A true Christmas denier.

Sometimes I. I think someone should bust into this room right now and shoot me with a derringer, because that is the only way to end this.

I volunteer.

Oh, you know what? And you're a guy that would own a derringer. I got it at the Tarantas. You know what?

You got a bit of a boothy vibe to you.

You do. You do.

You're a little.

What are you talking about? Oh, no. Greatest actor that would own a derringer. Can you imagine a guy busting. A guy busting it and he has. Oh, I got it at a local flea market.

Singular.

Yeah. Okay, first of all, you own Derringai.

Yes, I do. One on each leg. Garter.

I loved it. Someone busting into your house, and you're like, don't worry, honey. And you're putting a ball into a little derringer and powder, and you're packing it in.

Oh, no, those are cartridge based guns.

Little boothy.

All right. A little boothy around. He's a little boothy around the eyes. Okay, that's fair. Let's get into it. My guest today, lead vocalist and guitarist for the Grammy award winning band Vampire weekend, their fifth album, Only God was above us, was released earlier this year. Thrilled. He's here with us today. Extremely talented. Ezra Koenig. Welcome. I remember very well the first time I met you would have been when I was towards the end of my original show, the late night show in New York. I was very excited because your guys. Vampire Weekend's first album had come out, and it just hit me over the head in the best way. And I have very clear memories of being nervous about, I got to move out to LA. There's a lot of unknown stuff coming my way. I'm transitioning out of this job I've had for 16 years. And then your guys album came along, and listening to those songs and walking around the upper west side of New York and just being so happy. I just loved the music so much. And then heard that you guys were booked to come on the show, and I was excited the way a fan would be excited, you know, not, uh, yes, yes.

You know, that's how you normally.

Normally I'm like, mister Burns.

Yes, yes, yes.

This is rock and roll. We'll keep those. Those youngsters happy. Kenny, is it? Hey, is that the name? Ezra? How do I know that name? Anyway, I was very. I was very happy, and you guys came on and again, in that situation, we didn't really get to talk, right. But then go through that whole tonight show madness, and I go on tour. Sona Joyce was with me for the tour, and I forget where we were, but I heard that you guys were willing to come. And I think I know for a fact that you did Walcott and Radio city. And I was so excited about that when you guys said, yeah, would you play Walcott with us? I was. Everyone kept trying to talk to me about the comedy that we were going to be doing, and I was like, shut up, shut up, shut up. I'd be playing with him by weekend. I'm gonna get this right. You're like, well, yeah, but we're gonna really turn you down a lot so you don't fuck it up. But anyway, that was a big deal for me.

It was very meaningful to us, too.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Oh, growing up, we're huge fans of yours, and you really are, like, our target demographic.

That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.

You specifically, Conan O'Brien. Nobody. Even a guy from Boston walking around the upper west side. When I think about the early albums and, like, the imagery and how our kind of, like, love of the east coast, or forget about love, just heritage, like east coast bound.

Yeah. But also some of the references to. Well, especially in Walcott, you know? Yeah.

Cape Cod.

Cape Cod. And I mean, I so distinctly remember listening to that album and getting hooked on you guys. And then I have been a fan ever since and so happy that you could come in. And I also got to hang with you. Our mutual friend Rashida. Your.

We're more than friends, but have you met Rasheeda?

Yes. Mutual friend. Mutual friend.

You're both married to her. What's going on here?

Mutual wife.

Yeah. But I remember you guys came over once. We sat out on the deck. We were looking at the beach, I think at the time, my wife and I and kids had this place in carp, and you guys came by carpenteria, California, and it was on the water, and you guys came over and you introduced me to white claw. I remember you and Rashida brought white claw, and I didn't know what it.

Was and was that a big mistake? You've been pounding. Pounding the claw.

I need white claw. I've been in rehab eleven times, each.

For a different flavor.

But I remember you guys. You came up the steps.

Yeah, that's right.

It was this really small house. And you and Rashido came up the steps and you went, we brought white claw. And I thought, what's white claw? And you went, try it. And I thought it was going to be. And what I remembered is you need to drink a lot of white claws before you get a buzz. That's what I remember mostly.

Yeah. It's like a beer.

Maybe even lighter than a beer. I think it's less alcohol than a beer.

It's funny, I remember that we brought white club, but it's not like we drink it often. We must have. I think at the time, I was particularly interested in white claw because that was the summer that there was a stat going around the music industry and probably the beverage industry, that white claw had outsold beer at lollapalooza that summer. So I think I was like, well, that's interesting. I'm, like, curious about it. So we must have been talking more about white claw. And. Yeah, I don't know. That's probably the last time we drank white claw.

I was afraid that you did that because you thought Rashida said, we're gonna go see Conan O'Brien. You thought I. Oh, then we need to bring alcohol. That it was some weird irish slam. Cause you also brought potatoes.

Right.

And lucky charms.

And lucky charms. Corned beef pants made of burlap and a shovel.

You know what? It was just white claw season. And I think we just all wanted to get in on the fun.

There was that one summer that was a white claw. They talk about brat summer. There was like, a white claw summer.

Yeah.

So what was it?

And by the way, we are not getting any money from white claw. What was it?

But we'll take it.

We'll take it. Or some free white claw.

No, we don't want that.

Did kids like it because it had less. I think it had less.

Slightly alcoholic seltzer.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's low calorie, tastes great. And also since then there's.

And I remember you kept saying, Conan, you should really drink low calorie drinks if you're gonna stay on television. I remember that very clearly.

That's why we brought it. I'm sure it's still huge. And there are a lot of competitors now. Yeah. So whether or not white claw is still on top, I pray they are. But whether or not white claw is still on top, they clearly tapped into a need in the marketplace, which now everybody from Topo Chico to any sparkling water you can think of has entered.

Yes. Well, I love that your interest in music expands to what will people be drinking who are in the audience? That's cool. It's not just the writing and the singing and producing and the playing of the music, but you're also thinking about, what are they drinking? What are they.

Yeah, no, I'm very. I'm very into beverages and beverage history and seating arrangements. Yeah. Things of that nature.

You study the seating before you play anywhere, make sure it's just right.

Who are the ushers tonight? Is it that one guy?

I don't like that guy.

He's got to be perfect.

I don't want him on the aisle. I was thinking about this today because I know that your mom, when you're growing up, your mom's a therapist.

That's right.

And I was thinking, if you're. And you started writing songs at a very young age, if you're writing songs, lyrics and your mom's a therapist, there's a potential trap there where the mom is reading. How can your mom not help but read into the lyrics?

Right. Yeah, I suppose that's a. That's true, right? Yeah. And the first song I ever wrote was called bad Birthday Party, and it was.

That's true. Right.

Well, she. And she always. She threw great birthday parties for her children. I think maybe just as a kid, that was, like, one of the worst things I could think of was having a bad birthday party. It's still, even now, as an adult, it seems pretty sad for a kid to have, like, a very disappointing birthday.

How old were you when you wrote that?

Thinking, like eight or nine.

So were you consciously trying to write songs or. It just kind of happened.

I was consciously trying to write songs. You know, once I started taking piano lessons and I knew how to, like, you know, the rudiments of, like, writing out music, I was interested in kind of, like, writing songs. Yeah.

That is. I mean, to me, the key seems to be to start young and do it a lot, which is true of a lot of things, but to start at a young age and write a lot of songs before you get to some that you want to hang on to.

No, that's very true. And I did write a lot of songs, and I always had bands from middle school on, so I remember being 13, and we had a band that played at the 7th grade graduation. We played another original song called the Beast from the Sea, which was kind of. It was kind of like a B 52s pastiche. Not particularly original, but yeah, but they're always songs. And I can kind of remember that sitting down at the piano and writing the beginning of Oxford, comma, was kind of the first time I felt like, okay, I entered a slightly different phase.

Right? And they always say that someone who writes a really good novel has to have, like, six bad novels in their desk drawer. I mean, you need to go through that process of. I remember reading some interview with Paul McCartney. He said, yeah, because he started trying to write songs and he was young. And they said, well, what was an example of an early one you wrote? And he went, thinking of linking. He was like, I thought that was kind of a cool, like, you know, thinking and linking up. So thinking of linking. And he said, it was terrible. But anyway, it's interesting because you start playing the piano. When do you switch over to guitar? Is that happening around the same time or.

No, I did a few years on piano. Maybe when I was like, twelve or 13, I got a guitar for my birthday, and I've always been a little better at piano, but with guitar, I could try to start writing some riffs and stuff. And then ever since then, I always had bounce.

I was always obsessed with my left hand, making just the right shape that's going to make the sound. Much later on, I learned right hand is really important, you know? And yours just goes like a hummingbird on a bunch of, you know. I love that.

Well, you know, I think I was just talking about this with a friend. I think part of it was people forget because we were all born in, like, the mid eighties, so we were coming of age, right, when there was this very brief surf boom in the nineties, which you probably remember, you know, like the pulp fiction soundtrack led a bunch of bands, right? And so, yeah, ever since then, the first songs I ever wanted to learn on electric guitar were like miserloo and pipeline and stuff like that. So ever since then, all I ever wanted to do was have a little bit of reverb and go. And still that's kind of one of my go tos.

But I thought it was interesting, even the first time I heard you guys, as I said on that first album, hearing, there's a musical term for it, which I don't know, because I'm a cavemande playing in, like, triplets or something, whatever that is. It's so fast, and it almost sounds sometimes like a balalaika or something. It's got this kind of fast.

Yeah, some people call that double picking. Just going back and forth, up and down.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I like that in the. I like that kind of ball. It's also very like Zorba the Greek.

Yes.

Yeah.

Listening to your guys stuff, I start smashing plates. And you. You can, right. You're are two. Half creek. Quarter. Quarter Greek.

Yeah, quarter Greek. Daniel.

Okay, so then more like just up. Kind of a depressed oppa.

Yeah. So not a full oppa.

Yeah. So, yeah, oppa. Just oppa. One of the things that interests me is that.

I'm sorry, you keep saying uppa. It's oppa.

Depends on where you're from.

Okay. All right.

As most idiots say, I've heard it both ways. That's how I can cover for any mistake. I've heard it both ways.

All right.

One of the things that interested me was always, is that you guys come out of the gate with this great album, which you had essentially just made yourself. You made that album yourself while you were all working full time jobs.

Yeah.

So it's not like you were signed and brought into this slick situation.

No. And in fact, we experimented with remixing some of the songs to see, like, oh, is there. Are we missing some kind of professionalism or something? But it just didn't sound as good. So, yeah, it's really not. The version that came out is not particularly different than how it sounded when we were selling cdrs at our shows.

So you come out with that. It seemed to me like you were very interested in not having to be any slack, coming out with more material very quickly, and that was a pressure. Did that come from you? Did you feel this pressure, like, we've just got to keep this going?

Oh, yeah, yeah. I was obsessed because also because I'd been working full time, I was a public school teacher, 8th grade English in New York, and it felt like a big deal to go tell the principal, I'm going to go on tour with the band. Let's say that's probably June. June that year. I taught a full year, and I'm like, I'm going tour this summer, so I don't think I'm going to come back. So it felt a little bit high stakes to have this brief moment of success. I felt like, let's keep this going before I have to go back to being a teacher or something. So, yeah, I put a lot of pressure on myself and the whole band to try to get our second album out quickly. I was obsessed with that.

You really didn't want to go back to teaching. How awful were those kids?

I have a lot of affection for the kids. But it was. Yeah, it was a very difficult job. And also, I just felt like we had this rare opportunity.

No one can begrudge you wanting to.

Be a 30 kids, Karen.

Yeah. Ah, gee, he's a huge star.

Yeah. So I. Yeah, there was definitely felt like we had to keep things going. And then also, you know, the. Putting out your first album, in many ways, it was a big success, but then, of course, you're dealing with criticism and haters for the first time. So then there's also that part of you that felt like you wanted to continue to show more dimensions of the band as quickly as possible.

Yes. Yeah.

Because our first album, it's very. It was the perfect first album for us, but, you know, it was also so kind of youthful and collegiate and kind of, like, cheery, and it always felt like such a great starting point. But, yeah, I did also, I was anxious to show different shades of the band.

Yeah. And people. Music critics, especially. And everybody loves to say that's the sophomore slump, you know. And Lorne Michaels told me many times that they did the first year of Saturday Night Live, which is October 75 to summer of 76, you know, June or whatever, and then they break for the summer. And he said every season after that, like, the second season, all he heard was not as good as the first. Like the one with the Muppets. No. What do you mean? Steve Martin doing King tuts. Like the third or fourth, you know.

Right.

But that's all he heard. And then, of course, it was not as good as, you know, 1975 to 1980. Then it was not as good as when. And it was just. It's something that follows you, which is what I prefer, is you've never been good.

And you never will be.

And you never will be. I'm like, dad, we've had this conversation, so there's this pressure to come out. You do three albums, I think, in a relatively short time. Yeah.

Within five years.

Within five years. You know, by today's standards, that's moving. That's moving quickly.

Yeah. Not as fast as the Beatles, but when I look. Which in some ways is what something people always say were like, well, you know, they made, you know, it was six months between the white album and, you know, whatever. But, yeah, it felt fast. And then. And also, for me, I kind of remember, like, I turned 30 when we were finishing up the tour for the third album. And, you know, there were so many reasons why I think a band's first three albums tend to have, like, there's just something really special about the first three, you can look through so many bands where that represents a unit, a trilogy, whatever. Our first record deal was a three album deal, so there were so many ways in which, after that intense five plus a couple year period of touring, it felt like, okay, turning 30, that was like a speed run through my twenties. The band is now in a different place, and yet. Time for a break.

And then six years. Six and a half years.

Yeah.

What did you do during that time? I did account for your time, young man.

I mean, I want to see receipts.

Yeah. Guilty.

You know, I did. I did all sorts of stuff, you know, working on music, trying a few different things. It's a little hard to remember, but the. I remember thinking that the six years felt like nothing, and I still kind of feel that way. And in some ways, when I look back, I feel like we did it right, which is like, yeah, in your twenties, do it as quickly. Like, push yourself to go as quickly as possible. But that pace into your thirties, let alone your forties, is insane. I can't relate to it. I don't want it.

I am so aware that so much of stuff that I've done is because I had to, just because I was part of a machine where you now you need to do another one and then you have to do this, and then you have to do that and that. There was a. If I did shows when I felt like I might have done, like five shows, I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's something that some. And I don't know if you've had that. I'm sure you've had that creatively, where it's just. Creativity can happen in so many strange ways, but sometimes the good thing comes really easily, or sometimes it. Sometimes it comes when. God damn it, we need another song.

No, totally. And I've actually. I struggle with it a bit just because I have. I used to. When the ideas wouldn't come or something, I used to feel more anxious, like, it's important we got to get this album going. And then I learned a little more how to calm down and how to chill more, and then it stopped mattering to me that much, how quickly things came, which is very positive for my life, but not positive for the output. So I'm a little bit now, like, it comes when it comes. We'll see. I've never regretted the amount of time between albums, looking back now. So now we started this in our early twenties. This year I turned 40. It's a bit of a milestone, looking backwards and I think, all right, we have five albums out of. If I'd been like, a little more of a nut and probably gone harder and pushed harder, maybe we'd have seven albums out. Eight. What difference does it make?

Yeah, you've got an amazing body of work. You've got a great body of work, and you can keep adding to it. But you're right. I mean, first of all, I could take. I think I'm getting better at chilling.

Yeah, you are.

I think I am, definitely. But I had a major problem with it for a long time.

Well, you had a crazy job for how.

Way too long. Yeah. Years and years and years of craziness and having kids just changes you. It changes you so much. And then there's a while where you think, wait a minute, is there be creative versus be happy? And then it turns out, well, no, that's ridiculous. There's a way to be. There's a way to do both. It can just come in so many different forms.

Right.

But when I'm not creative or I do work I don't like, now I can blame my children.

That's why you had them.

You robbed me of what could have been genius. You should do that. You just yell sometimes. Yeah, just yell. You've robbed me of a great song.

I mean, there's also something funny about songs, too. Like, I'm not trying to be too negative, but I. I've always looked at other, you know, I think there's comedians who've done, like, great work late into their life, and they're directors and novelists and stuff, you know, the number of people who recorded their best albums in their forties or fifties or sixties.

The.

Consensus would be there's not a lot of people who have done that. So there's also some part of me that feels like, well, if you only get a certain number of songs in this life, like, really wait for them, spread them out and, you know, don't rush through it, you know?

Right, right. Who are the people that you look to, you know, whether musicians, artists, people that you. Careers, you look at and think, okay, that. Do you have people in mind sometimes?

Yeah, sure. I mean, it's. Last time I saw Bob Dylan here in LA at the Pent ages theater, and he was touring his last album, which had that, I don't know if you guys heard the 17 minutes JFK song murder most foul.

Yeah, I did hear that.

And I thought that was just such a monumental achievement. And I thought, wow, this guy. This is the best popular music ever recorded by an 80 year old. He's pushing into territory we've never seen before. So that was inspiring. But then, if I'm honest, I've always been really excited about. Another famous songwriter, of course, is Leonard Cohen. He had cool albums up until the end of his life. But I really think one of the reasons I was always the most interested in him was because he had that period where he went up Mount Baldy to study with his Zen teacher for seven years. And then I started to realize that I've always been so interested in people who take serious time off or people who kind of disappear for a while. In some ways, those are the most inspirational stories because sometimes they come back and do great work like Leonard Cohen, and then sometimes they don't. And even that's kind of cool. I find that inspiring, too, just to know that it's possible.

You're telling me to go away, just.

Like seven years.

I'll be dead. I haven't got seven. No, but I do understand completely what you're saying. And I always think about. I think about people in comedy. I think about that probably a lot more. And I think about the people that have done consistently good work and Steve Martin, Marty Short are doing. I mean, they're both faster than and funnier than most people I'm ever going to meet. And they've got a bunch of years on me. They don't want me to say how many, but they're 115 years old individually, not added up. And I always look to those people. And Bob Newhart, who just passed, was so funny throughout his career, starting in 1960 and going through all these different permutations. He was so smart and so funny and so quick, right up to the end of his life. And I lived to be, I believe, 96 and just passed away about two months ago. And I think I look to those people and I think, no, there is a way to do it. I think we live in a society where people think they have to be trending all the time and they have to be discussed all the time.

And I think, no, I know exactly what you're talking about. People can have, they can have a little peak, and then they can go away for a while and think and regenerate and then come up with something else. I get that. I like that.

I mean, it's like when there's a we are the world documentary that was great. A lot of people watched it, really enjoyed it. And you see this moment Bob Dylan in the mid eighties that a lot of people remarked on. He seems so nervous and maybe part of it is, he felt like, does my voice sound good on this song? Whatever. But also part of it is that Bob Dylan in the mid eighties was releasing his least loved albums. Yeah, they always have a few great songs on them. There's, like some classic stuff. But either way, he was. It probably felt a little bit random for him, a guy who in the sixties and seventies, crushed it so hard in the eighties, still trying to figure out how he could relate to the sounds of the day. And there he was, surrounded by these people who were breaking new ground for how big and influential a pop star could be. Bruce Springsteen in the eighties, Michael Jackson, whatever. So, of course, that was like a weird moment for him in his life. And yet, you know, he consistently, I don't know, he never really went away.

He seems to like to work. He released tours a lot, released his albums, but, you know, he just, like, kept on trucking, and eventually he was back to releasing more loved albums. But then you go back and you're like, that was cool work. I don't know what it felt like for him. Looked a little uncomfortable in the documentary.

Yeah, I think in the documentary, too, he's around these people who can belt.

Yes.

And of course, that's not Bob Dylan's thing. And so he's working with people who are kind of saying, like, you don't really hit this thing. He's like, I don't really do that. But you're right. You can take a snapshot of anybody at a moment in their career and it doesn't tell you the whole story, you know? And I think it's why I'm always kind of fascinated. It sounds like I'm making a joke and I'm actually not. I find obituaries to be one of the most interesting parts of the newspaper because they tell the whole story. Like there's no more story to this person. This person has passed and they're gone. And sometimes, if it's a fascinating person, I read an obituary once, and it was Stalin's daughter. And she had lived this. I mean, she's born, she's living in the Kremlin. Stalin's her dad. She lives through all that. But then after he dies, she goes off and she becomes like, a jet setter in London in the sixties, but then she ends up at the end of her life after 15 different chapters. She ends up being this little old lady who's living in, like, a small hut in Montana, and you.

Montana? Yeah, literally in Montana. Someplace like in the plains. And you look at the whole arc of her career. And it has like 75 different crazy, improbable chapters. And I thought, that's a life I love. But you could take any one moment from it and not see the whole story if you just checked in on that one moment.

Yeah, totally.

And I think what you're talking about is for musicians, you can check in on them at a moment and not see, not get the right picture of what they're up to or where they're going.

Oh, yeah, of course. And then also the timing is everything. You release an album, you do your best. You hope that people like it and judge it on its merits. But of course, when our first album came out, of course, I'm very proud of that album. I think it's a great album. People still discover it today. But that was also a little bit of a moment where people were interested in bands from New York. It was also this moment when the major labels were a little bit confused. I always think of it as this brief historical period between Napster and Spotify, which kids today will never know about. It was a really brief window. So it wasn't the nineties where people were buying cds handover Fist, nor was it like the Empire strikes back moment where the major labels were kind of like, oh, we actually know how to do this.

We figured it out.

Yeah, it was a weird moment and people were interested in what they called indie. And so again, I'm not taking anything away. I'm very proud of the album, but it's good timing. People always used to ask us questions like, does it ever bum you out that people are buying less cds? Pretend it's like 2008. Cd sales are way down. Do you wish you came out in 1998? And I just remember thinking, I have no idea how we would have fit in in 1998. It could have been way worse, actually.

Yeah.

Why would I assume that in 1998 we would have been like Matchbox 20 or something. For all I know, in 1998 it never would have gotten off the ground because. So anyway, these moments, you guys would.

Have had huge hair in the eighties and, like, be dancing with a snake, you know?

Right. We might have been even more indie in 1998. So anyway, that's all to say that there are these bigger moments, the forces of reality that come and go, and there's headwinds and tailwinds, and at some point that's so much bigger than you.

I know exactly what you're talking about because I was very crazily lucky to get into what I was doing in television in 93. But tv audiences start eroding rapidly about seven years into when I'm working on a big network and it's becoming more about cable and everything. And so you could have people say to me, don't you wish you had been come along. Started in like 1958 and then you could have. You're like, this is dumb question. Because then I wouldn't get to do what I'm doing now or we wouldn't have videos online. So there was a time if you took a snapshot of me in the late two thousands where you'd say, well, this is just a terrible time to be trying to do this, be a late night talk show host because it's becoming whatever. If it's becoming less and less relevant, our audiences are getting smaller. But no, it was the perfect time because you could, you know, make it your own. So I understand exactly what you're saying. Yeah.

And in that window, you. Yeah. Was there another time? Cause you got to do like in the nineties, the sense of humor you had, would you have been allowed to do that in the.

I wasn't really allowed to do it in the nineties. People I worked. Therefore, we're not happy. There was a movement, get me out of there. Plan for a while. But yeah, it all, like I say, you have to. You're dealt a hand. You're dealt and you. And I think we've both been really fortunate. I think about. Yes, you're right. There was a moment there. I think you're crazily talented and would have found your way in any era. I always. One of the things that stands out about you, Ezra, is your ability to write a melody, I think is very rare. You write some beautiful melodic turns throughout your music. And I've always, it catches me and always reminds me how hard that is. I think that's a very difficult thing to do and it's a rare gift.

Oh, well, thanks. I mean, that's also, you know, I wait until I have a song where I feel like it's got a melodic hook. That's probably one of those things that, especially in pop music, you can get pretty sophisticated with chords and stuff, but usually the people want something simple and memorable. And a lot of my favorite music is like that. And, yeah, sometimes I can overthink stuff about what the production is supposed to be like or the references or the lyrics and stuff, but in some ways, it's just either you have a good melody or you don't. And sometimes you got to wait for it. But yeah, that's the most fundamental thing.

Without, like, getting too technical. What's your process? Because your lyrics are so good, and it's crazy to say they're literate, but they are. They're. They're very smart and they're really well crafted. And I think, okay, are you sitting down and writing? Do you get the melody first? You write that, or can it happen in any order? Well, I just basically want to know how to do this, and I'm not leaving until you tell me.

The truth is, I really don't know. And that's why I'm not prolific. That's why even when there were times where once or twice I wrote something that ended up being part of somebody else's thing, once there was this demo I made with Diplo and turned into Beyonce songs, a lot of people were like, oh, do you want to do more pop writing? And just deep down, it was an exciting idea, but deep down, I just had this feeling like, I don't know if I can go subject some pop star to just me sitting there and be like, now we wait. Because I don't have a lot of good ideas. Certain songs, Oxford comma. I sat down at the piano, my parents house, and I started going, gives a fuck about an Oxford comma? And I was like, oh, it sounds like something. And then since then, it's a good question. I'm trying to figure it out, too, because I don't want there to be ten years between every album. But the one thing I know that kind of works for me is when I have no inspiration or something, I just keep a running list of phrases.

I come across words on my phone. So that way, if I sit down at the piano or the guitar and I start playing something and nothing comes to mind, I can always scan that list. There's a song on the new album called Prep School Gangsters. It was the New York magazine cover story from the nineties. It's kind of like a classic cover, and the phrase was always so funny and evocative to me. So, you know, once I've started working on something, I looked through Lis prep school gangsters, and it started to come together. So that's the only way I know.

Do you ever think, okay, what if, God forbid, you put all of your money into a bad theme restaurant and it's all gone and it's. And I'm going to pitch you a theme restaurant when we're done here, and I really need you to put all your money into it. Okay, but do you ever think to yourself, what if I had to take this ability that you have this talent I have. And I just had to make money to put food on the table. And, I mean, I had people saying, like, okay, Ezra, Wendy's wants a jingle. They want a jingle. And it's a triple patty and the meat hasn't been frozen. And they're using a new kind of cheese. And that's really fantastic called Lund lader. You got to give us something. And you're like, damn it, I want braces for my kids. I've got to.

Do I have to?

I have to. You ever think if you were in that position?

I don't think you understand rock music?

Oh, I do.

Okay.

And it can be. Have you a lot of jingles?

Yeah, I guess I'd like to think that when push came to shove, I can make Wendy's proud. And I'd like to think that.

Let's get to Wendy's. I don't know if you're listening.

Yeah. Cause in some ways, maybe the. Over the last 16 years, the thing that I've tried to protect and grow is my kind of artistic indie sensibility because that's what I've needed. Whereas in an alternate lifetime, if I could have suppressed that and turned it into something more utilitarian, like, yeah, I like a challenge. Once the director of the new Peter Rabbit movie asked me to write a song and I was like, okay, let me really try to think about what it means to write something for kids. And the truth is, a lot of times when I've thought about another job I'd like besides music, it's been a little bit like marketing in the food and beverage space. So I really would like to get together.

Yeah.

White claw, if you're listening Wendy's, I.

Would never guess that your side hustle would. I just think the marketing of food and beverage is something that we need to get into. And you're talking to the rest of the band. Guys, listen up. No, I bring it up because people talk about the great music of the sixties. And obviously there was so much of it. What doesn't get mentioned a lot is I do think some of the best music of the sixties was television themes. There are incredible, incredible television themes that came from sixties and seventies television. There's a lot of terrible ones, but the good ones are fantastic. They're just great scores. And you think that's people that were like, all right, what are we doing today? Okay, what's it called? It's called mission impossible. It's called Hawaii five O. It's called the Wild, Wild west. It's called the Flint. All right, let's go.

Yeah. And they had to just churn it out.

It's called f troop. And you think I'm kidding? Listen to those songs. They. They. They're fucking crazily good. They're fantastic.

Oh, yeah, totally. And there's something inspiring about that. And also the. The songwriters of the, you know, twenties and thirties or that image of, like, a couple people in sweater vests sitting at the piano with the.

Grinding it out.

Yeah. Grinding it out. Yeah. There is something really appealing about it, Alley.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I'd like to think that there, you know, what's tough is just like. And it's just the other side of the coin from what I've been doing. So maybe I've never really known how to kind of do both, especially.

Clearly, you don't have to. And this is not something I'm suggesting, but it is funny how.

Thinking about it, really seriously.

No, but what's interesting to me is when I started my career in 1985 with my writing partner, Greg Daniels, we were put in a room on this tv show. It was called not necessarily the news. I remembered early on, they just wanted little sight gags from us, little visual sight gags that they could put music over, that people could perform. And we would sit there and we would just grind on these things. And our desks faced each other like we were just two bankers grinding away. I went off to do all the weird stuff I've done, and Greg went off to do the american office and parks and Recreation and king of the hill. And he's just been this machine turning out all this great television. But we started out doing this very. Hey, literally, I would picture someone just throwing a sandwich into the room and then get back to work. But I don't dislike that part of my career. But it was write some jokes, write some gags. Come on, you two. We'll shut the door. And at the end of the week, you better give us 75 gags. All right, we're on it.

And that's what it was. And so I've always been kind of fascinated by that side of things. And so I'd like to reach out. I'd like to reach out to wendy's on your behalf.

No, I love that. And even just that visual of you guys just at the desk, I've always wanted a little more deskiness in my world. At some point, I became a little more mystical, and I felt like vampire weekend's its own thing. It'll tell me when it wants the song, as opposed to what you're talking about. But I've always loved. In fact, there's the french band Phoenix. So I know them very well. And they were working on their last album a few years ago, and I happen to be in Paris. I went to visit them at the studio for that album. The studio was the Louver.

Oh, my God.

It sounds like you're just making up french stuff. But somehow they had a connection. And maybe because it was like the tail end of COVID they were connections.

They were, hey, you want the Louver? I got the Louver. You want the Louver?

So literally, you'd go to the Louver and you would enter the arts and decoration department, and somebody from the museum took me up. I remember they were like, that's Napoleon's chair. So I walked past Napoleon's chair and then they were just in a room. Anyway, I'd never actually seen them working on an album. And they had a desk in the middle of the room with, like, four laptops, as if they would just, like, sit down at the desk. And there was something about. I'd never seen anything quite like it, even just the. Just the spatially. Normally in a studio, you know, everybody's kind of looking at the screen and so you're probably sitting, you know, when I work with, like, Ariel is the main producer I work with, you know, his back is to me. Maybe I sidle up behind him a little bit. But these are just four guys at their laptops, at a desk. For all you know, it could have been like working on like a takeout app or something. But there's something. But I remember at the time, they.

Do also have a successful insurance company.

Yeah.

But I just. I just love that vision of just the university, them sitting down at a desk. Like, what are we doing? The same idea of just a couple people throwing around ideas?

No. Well, first of all, we can get. I'm gonna make sure. I'm gonna talk to Rashida. We're getting you a desk.

Thank you.

I can get you an iron desk from the fifties. Oh, great. And I want to ask you about this because I know that you once compared your discography, your body of work, to weed, specifically certain albums having a different ratio of, you know, THC to CD.

That's right.

Yeah. And I wanted to bring Sona in on this.

Oh, jeez.

Just because you.

Right, yeah.

You can help me understand this. So explain to me, like, when you talk about your first album, sake, and then maybe comparing it to only God was above us, your last album. What are we talking about here? How would you describe them in terms of ratio, the weed ratio to CBD? Yeah.

Well, the first album would probably be high CBD, and the last album would be very, like, high THC. Well, this is my. You might have more experience than me, but when.

Yes. Sona has more experience than you. We've had nine interventions for Sona, and she always leaves them and goes and gets.

I'll get high while you're doing it. I'm just eating out of order.

Yeah, I'm definitely not an expert. Probably whenever I did that interview, that might have just been. I was just trying to think of anything that has ratio. I probably should have said chocolate and could have done cocoa versus sugar. That would have had, like, less.

It could have done something worse. So. You know what I mean?

But once I tried to make a rubric where I was trying to. Just anything to try to think about where the band's going. And I've always believed every album should have a very different vibe. And so I've definitely thought about them on being on the spectrum of kind of, like, from preppy to goth. So that was a useful. Which is a useful rubric and maybe a little bit, like, outdoorsy versus indoors. I don't know. So, yeah, when I think of the first album, it's extremely sunny, and it presents as sunny and it presents as young and it presents as fun. And I think every. And I do think there's, like, elements of darkness in there and maybe.

Oh, yeah.

But still, you know, it's about how it presents. So when I think of the current album, in many ways, it kind of feels like the. The inverse of the first album. It's also a kind of, like, reflective New York album, but it probably has, you know, the inverse THC to CBD ratio.

I think I figure out the ratio on this podcast, you know? Do you know what I mean? Are we. Are we a mellow? Are we a mellow? Do we mellow you out, this podcast? Or do we. Anyone can weigh in here, like, what.

The hybrid version of.

Yeah. What are we? Yeah. Is this.

I think we're mostly THC. I think it's just like, what is that?

I don't even know what that means. We're tripping.

THC is what gets you high.

Okay.

CBD is what, like, makes you. It's like, you know, CBD ointment. If you have, like, an ache, like, yeah.

You also partake of the. Of the ganja. There's a little meth in there. Yeah, maybe.

That's very messy. Yeah, I think we are very messy.

Meaning way.

So we're tweaky cousin who doesn't have teeth.

When you say we're very messy, I think I. I know I'm messy.

I think if you're looking at the podcasting industry as a whole, we're the.

Methy cousin, Sona's CBD, Gorley's THC, and you're the meth.

Yeah, yeah.

I've talked about that. Yeah. You're a nice. We're the papers. You're a rapping paper. No, I've had. I've told you, I've talked about this. I had a doctor tell me that he, you know, let's talk about your cocaine use. And I was like, I've never done cocaine in my life. And he said, you've got to be honest with me. I'm your doctor now. Took that from the way I behave.

Yeah. Not based on your blood work.

No, no.

Your demeanor I've never done.

Yeah. And then after hot ones, everyone. The hot ones were, people just think, oh, I don't know what he's doing. He's probably having a, you know, meth enema every night. You seem like you're able to chill and you like to chill. Like you're able to relax. You're able to.

I've had to. I've had to learn how to do it a little bit. I said in the interview when we were first releasing the album that some people seemed to enjoy and some people made fun of me for, but I said, my passion in life is chilling and it really is. And I kind of even remember as when the band started getting going and things got kind of intense, even back then, I remember thinking, I hope there's a time later in my life where I can chill more.

I'm still waiting on that. Yeah, I'm working on it. But maybe you'll be my. I want you, Ezra, to be my spirit animal.

Maybe stop taking cocaine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll show up at your house and some white claw and I'll show you how to chill. I really needed to learn how to.

I bet.

I bet you've never in your adult life had time, as much time off as I've had, which I have not.

I haven't had wander around time like. And that's not just because, I mean, my career has been a lot of it, but also kids and this wife with her demands. But I.

That's Liza. But, yeah, just demanding.

Get out of here. That's exactly how she sounds. She's the voice of the velociraptor in yeah, it's true. True story. Spielberg was like, that's it, Liza, I love you. And people are laughing because it's the exact opposite of who you are. But anyway, I would like to. I do aspire to that, too. And there are times when we shoot these, I do travel shows now, and when I shoot those, there'll be times where I'm, like, in Dublin and, or, you know, or I'm in. I don't know, I'm in some foreign land. I'm in Norway, and I'm walking around and there's a little downtime, and I'm walking around, and I just love kind of being someone else, do you know what I mean? You're just walking and you're going and getting a cup of coffee, and you're in a place you've never been before. You'll probably never be again.

Oh, yeah, I have to do that all the time on tour. When Rashida was shooting that show in Japan, we lived there for six months, and so she's working a crazy tv schedule. Our son was in school. I didn't know that many people, and I didn't particularly feel motivated to go set up a studio or something. So, yeah, I realized all you really need is, you know, obviously people need a little bit of, like, something to move towards in life. And I realized it could literally just be a coffee shop that's an hour and 20 minutes away. You walk there and get the coffee, read a little bit, walk back. That's most of the day. You know what I mean?

What speed are you walking?

There were so many. Well, I always felt like the classic day in Tokyo.

Taking a step.

I'd take our son to school, and then I would walk to this old school vinyl bar, this one's from the twenties, that only plays classical music called lion in Shibuya. I'd walk there. It was about, like, hour and a half walk. I would get there, have a coffee, read for an hour, and then maybe do something in the neighborhood, then walk back so easily. That could turn into four and a half or 5 hours maybe you get back home at that point, it's like 05:00 p.m. at 05:00 p.m. you're allowed to say, I did the day.

Sure.

You know, you start thinking about dinner and stuff like that. Oh, throwing, going to the gym in the same day. That's the whole day.

That sounds amazing.

And it felt, and it did. But even then, even being somewhere, like, cool, like Tokyo, like you do that every single day, like a little the novelty of being somewhere different wears off. And then you really just have to focus in on how much you really love chilling. You have to find the love.

Well, you're talking to the chill chumps here. We know about chilling. We chilled. I think my lesson in life is that no matter you can be in the most beautiful place in the world. You can be in Rome, you can be in Venice. You can be in Florence. And if you're there long enough, one day you're gonna go, I gotta get out of this dump. Yeah, sure. With all this italian food and beautiful arts. I gotta get out of this dump. Ezra, I'm gonna let you go. But it's been really fun talking to you.

Thanks so much for having me.

I'm a fan. I'm an admirer.

Likewise.

And I love getting to talk to really cool, creative people that do things I do not understand. So you're in that category. So we'll see you next time.

See you next time.

I'm getting you a desk, by the way, it's coming tomorrow.

As teased in the intro to this episode we thought we might do some alternate historical timelines. And Sona just pitched D Day as a nice little boat ride. What you call it.

Maybe they were. They thought, hey, we're gonna go on boats. It's a boat ride and.

No, they're headed to the beach.

Yeah, they're going to the beach. Everybody, it's beach day.

What happened was it was a every. It was a very large beach picnic. And then it got. It got rowdy. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. That's why most of them were in trunks and they had towels with them.

They did not have trunks and towels.

Yes, they did. They did. That's what I heard.

This is a. First of all, apologies to all the amazing heroes who gave up their lives.

Especially the ones that are still living and listening.

Yeah, that's true. We probably have a couple of. God, they would be almost 100 years old now.

Hearing is not good.

Yeah. They'd be so mad. What? We weren't there for a goddamn beach vacation. So you're saying alternate history meaning? Because earlier we were talking about how. Just exploring other possibilities.

Yeah. Or maybe a better or easier explanation for why things went down the way they did.

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Right, right.

So we haven't discussed this. We're just gonna.

All the things in my mind are so.

Come on. Don't censor.

Just go. Just go. I mean, the Manson murders, they thought it was their house.

Okay? What? They thought it was their house, and that's what you do when you walk into a house and other people were there. You start Sona.

This is why I want to censor myself.

Maybe he was an Avon lady, okay?

He was there to show them how to put on foundation. This isn't happening.

I'm telling you, I wanted to stop talking. You guys told me not to censor myself.

I wanted you to stop talking 15 years ago.

I know, but this is. This was the whole. You did the whole Lincoln thing.

Yeah, but that's. It's been enough time.

Oh, these are fresh.

Yeah, they're fresher. They're fresher.

I went back to what's the time? What's the cutoff?

I think the cutoff should be 1865.

Oh, come on.

I think anything later than that or not involving death and murder.

I know.

You know what I mean. I mean, that's a tragedy. Those are tragedies you're talking about.

Awful.

They're terrible. And so I'm distancing myself from you and what you said.

I thought we were spitballing here. This is just us doing it, baby.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

We want to alternate history for this.

Yeah, I. Okay. Hey, I'm spitballing here, baby. Hey, daddy o. Yeah, there's an alternate universe for. Sona's a comedy writer at SNL. Hey, babies, I'm spitballing here, and Lauren's like, who is this? Who is this woman? Hey, just spitballing here, Lauren Z.

Hey, cat.

Hey, Catio. Catio? What you mean catio?

Give us some more. But do them as that guy.

Just like all the ones that I have are not good, so we can't do that. Wait, we're talking alternate histories?

Yes.

Well, you know, first of all, I'm the one who knows the least about.

This is why yours is the best. I know, because yours are great.

Mine are all from this century. I don't. I mean, I can't.

Go ahead, like the Salem witch trials or.

That's good.

Great Depression.

Salem witch trials.

Great Depression.

So, great depression.

Nobody told that alternate history of the Great Depression.

It was okay.

I think it was a soup craze.

There you go.

I think the Great Depression, sure, there was some financial distress, but suddenly, all across America, everybody really wanted hot soup, and they were willing to line up for it in the cold to get it. And the fashion trend was holes in your shoes. Holes in your shoes.

Yeah.

And also, people wanted to, like, I feel self conscious riding trains in the cardinal. I want to be out where the luggage goes. I want to ride the rails. So that would be another alternate history, is it was a soup craze that turned.

That's good.

And. Yeah. And people. People's pockets were stuffed with cash.

Yeah.

But they were just lined up for soup. Boy, my dad lived through the depression, okay. Yeah, the real one. Well, he was. Yeah. Yeah, my dad's. What do you mean?

I. Oh, not the soup.

No, he didn't just want soup. He was, like, in the depression.

He has told me everyone was fine. We just went soup crazy. He said we were nuts for this stuff. He said, it's like if you've got. If you've got the thungres, if you're a little thirsty and a little hungry. And we said, we all. We were all doing the Charleston 1 minute. And then someone said, I need soup. And everybody went, soup, nuts, soup, crazy.

Soup to nuts.

And they all went. They all lined up. And when you're lined up for a long time, your clothes get beat up. People were like, we should probably put on our rich fur coats. Nah, we'll lose our place in line for soup. So we look a little ratty.

Now. What ended it all? World War Two came along and killed the soup craze.

Yeah. People just got over soup. Yeah. Then it was time, you know, the minute Glenn Miller started, his tunes started hitting them. Everyone was like, the soup thing's over. Things come and go. And everyone was into malteds, banana splits, phosphates. Phosphates. An egg cream.

Yeah.

What a weird. An egg cream. Never. What did they call it where you were? When I was a kid growing up in the Boston area, older people called a chocolate soda. They called it a frappe. F r a p p e. I.

Don'T think we have.

Have you heard that?

I've never heard of that.

And the modern sense. Like a frappuccino.

Yeah, but they called it a frap. And I just remember thinking at the time, what's going on? And then I heard that in New York, they would call it an egg cream.

I've heard of egg creams, but I don't think any of these really got west. We were too smart for that.

Sorry. You just called it a milkshake or something.

Just called it what it was.

And is it frappe or frappe?

Well, I don't know.

I think it's frappe. Cause doesn't it have a little pew on top of it? Yeah. What is it called? Oh, yeah. Okay.

Okay.

I did it. But you guys knew what I was talking about, though. When I said that there's a theory.

That in podcasts, it's all good. We're just riffing, and it's all good. And you know what? It's not.

And yet it is.

And it's not. And yet it is a bit you.

No, we can't. We can't. This one can't go.

It's already gone out.

It's already gone out.

People are here.

Forget how these are.

Speak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So your fun riff about the murders by the Mansons is out.

I thought we were doing a rewriting of history. I'm the only one came here with ideas.

Well, no, you didn't.

Sat back.

You didn't come with ideas. First of all, you didn't come with ideas. You started. You said, I'm gonna riff, baby. Let's spitball.

I thought we were rewriting stuff.

We gotta end this. This can't go out.

This can't go out. Yeah, this can't go out.

Okay.

You're gonna send this one out, aren't you? Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ.

I mean, I don't want to have to record a new segment and waste this awful.

Yeah. Who am I introducing?

This isn't an intro.

This isn't an intro.

This is a segment. In fact, we even covered that. This is a segment because it's carrying on from the same episode.

And. Wait. And what am I doing here?

I don't know.

You know what? I was on television. I was on television. Don't you know that was as high as I thought I could get?

People took you off television and literally put you in a padded room with a team of nurses in disguise as television.

They did. They put me in.

Notice you're drinking tea and sausage foods.

I know.

You're on a farm.

I know. I've been put down.

I'm sorry.

I'm like an old horse. They said, come over here. Come over here. And then you cut to a bottle of Elmer's glue. Alternate Conan history.

He's actually in a padded room.

I just. I. That's crazy. I have. And you're gonna keep that in, too, because I have no idea how this podcast works or what we're doing.

We don't need to worry about it, Grant.

I'm a chimp. You guys put in a room, and when I throw my poop at the wall, you just record it. You sell it. You sell it. All right, well, hope you enjoyed. What is it? A podcast?

Oh, I don't know.

Radio show?

Not at this point.

Okay. All right, well, that's the end of this Seguru, baby.

And now will you introduce Ezra Koenig?

We just did that. I know, I know.

I'm joking.

Oh, Jesus. Funny joke. You can't joke with people of my vintage like that. Quickly, you've got to get out of here. The house is on fire. I'm on my way. Kidding. All right, peace out.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, sonam of session and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Liao. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our super. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burens. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. Message. It, too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up@siriusxm.com. conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.