Transcript of Rams-49ers Recap and Bill Belichick’s Big Move

Here it is. From midfield, pressure coming. Purdy hit. Purdy, shots. Game over.

Christian Roseboom clinches it. The Rams have a 3 game winning streak, and they sweep San Francisco 12 6 the final.

That's how you close a game, not just by Christian Rosenboom, but by our friend JB Long on KSPN. Yes. The Rams win a game in the division without scoring a touchdown 12 to 6. A massive result for their playoff hopes, basically eliminating their rival 40 niners in a rainy night in Santa Clara. It's dry here in Los Angeles, and I've got my friend, Andrew Siciliano with me.

Andrew, the preseason voice on television of the LA Rams. So he's an expert, and I liked how they ended there. You send some pressure on a Hail Mary. Don't even let Brock Purdy throw that ball. Although I was kinda wondering if Brock Purdy could even reach in the rain.

We'll never find out. Rosenthal,

I am I am touched. I am flattered. I am honored to be back, on this pod, longtime listener, first time in this current format on the pod, and I think first time back, maybe in the NFL media group since the start of week 1. I am I am honored to be here.

We we miss you, buddy. But, look, Andrew, 1 of the best people in the business, and and he's been busy. Not you know, since the Olympics. He's, of course, now the voice of the Browns. He's got his YouTube channel.

Check out Andrew Siciliano. He he's got, Think It Out Loud on the channel. He's got the Bark Tank podcast, but we're here to talk a little Rams 40 niners, and you've watched this division, as closely as any because of your connection to the Rams. A different sort of NFC West game, a defensive struggle. But I do think in the second half, we kinda saw the reason why these 2 teams are going in separate directions when they absolutely needed to.

The Rams did figure out how to move the ball even if they were settling for field goals. And when they needed to, they got enough pressure on Purdy. That's kind of been the story of the Rams season. Efficient, long drives when they've needed to in the second half of games, and the 40 niners really collapsed down the stretch. So it says 126, but I I did feel like it was a just result, and the Rams really, really help out their playoff chances.

And crazy thing is these these teams combined for 82 points in their respective games on Sunday against the Bills and against the Bears. But here, this is the only game all season according to our buddy Tony in research that did not include a touchdown from either team. So 12 6 is a thrilling 1. And I and I Wow. Yeah.

How about that? The only game without a touchdown.

Would that be the first game that that a team that a 40 niners team who didn't give up a touchdown has lost since 2007. So there there are not many

games like this. I think the the Q4 of those last 2 drives and and even the delayed blitz there on the Hail Mary, which is something we saw from the Browns actually against Russell Wilson of the Steelers on TNF. That game week 12 back in Cleveland, Jordan Hicks came, delayed pressure and drilled Russell Wilson on that final George Pickens. Greg Newsome tete a tete in the back of the end zone. The Rams were the more physical team when they needed to down the stretch.

And those 2 long drives and that sack, that proved a point. And I think there is I I don't wanna say it's an official changing of a guard in the division because the Rams have won a Super Bowl here. But the thing about the niners forever kinda having Sean McVay's number, Kyle kinda having Sean's number, especially when the game was up there, is that the niners were the more physical team with Trent Williams, with Deebo, with Bosa, with whomever else they had on the offensive line and the defensive line for that matter. They were the more physical team, and they punched the Rams in the mouth. This was a bit of a reversal.

Don't get me wrong. They didn't blow them out of the building. And if a Hail Mary gets to the end zone, maybe we're having a different conversation. But the Rams have now beaten Sean McVay has now beaten Kyle Shanahan 3 in a row. And it's the first time the Rams have done that since anybody?

I don't I mean, the the it was in Saint Louis, I would guess.

Yeah. It was. It was the greatest show on turf. Kurt, Marshall, Torrey, Isaac, Orlando. It was that team from 99 to o 1.

They beat the niners 6 in a row, and now they've beaten them 3 in a row. So I I think this was this was a message sent here as well, and it doesn't matter now what the Rams do against the Jets next week in New York. Honestly, it doesn't matter. If they win the last 2 against the Cardinals and Seahawks, they're in.

Oh, that's a good point. I was like, well, it matters a little. What if the Seahawks, went out? No. You're right.

The division games are all there really matters.

5 and 1 in the division.

Yeah. And the Seahawks have tough games the next 2 week against the Packers and the Vikings. If I'm a Seahawks fan, and I kind of am, but I'm also kind of a Rams fan.

No. You're a Geno fan. You're not

a Seahawks. It's kind of a it's kinda confusing here. This was the first game I got to watch at home and and watch my my daughter and and my wife go nuts with with the clapping in the second half of this game, very intense. They they will likely be playing for the division in week 18. That's basically what this game, all but guaranteed.

Because Seattle, like I said, was saying, like, if you're a fan of Seattle, you hope to if you got 1 of those next 2 games against the Packers and the Vikings, you'd take that. Like, those are 2 really good teams. And most likely, Seattle will have a chance to win the division that night, and LA will have a chance to win the division that night. And it very well could be the Sunday night football game to end the yeah. And the season, which would be fantastic.

And this 3 game winning streak comes after the 40 niners beat the Rams in the regular season 9 straight times, which is outrageous and deserves a massive asterisk that that, the Rams won the most important game these 2 teams have ever played, in this current McVay Shanahan iteration in the NFC championship. But I thought they were more physical. Kyron Williams, to me, gets the game ball. 29 carries, a 108 yards, some outstanding blitz pickups. There was that 17 play drive where they blew it with a holding call on a zone read by Matthew Stafford, and they settled for the field goal.

But that helped set the tone in the second half after they couldn't do anything in the first half punting 5 times. And Kyron just kept getting extra yards. I kept thinking, oh, that should have been 2, it was 5. Oh, that should have been 4, it was 7. That should have been 6, it was 11.

He's just carrying guys, and he is such a tough runner. They wanna play play Coram. He's running well, but I think Kyron Williams is just too good. They can't get him off the field. And that was the difference to me on a night where, you know, the 40 niners are down to their 3rd running back and just couldn't get anything going consistently on offense.

And know this too about really any coach for Sean McVay, in particular. If you're a rookie running back, pass pro is the most important thing. And it's not that Sean and full disclosure, I have not been with the Rams since August. Right? Still talk to people there, obviously.

But Sean's not gonna put a rookie running back on the field unless he absolutely believes in him in pass pro, and I think he does. But when you see what Kyron Williams does and you know that his pass pro game isn't just good, it can be elite,

and

you're gonna keep him you're gonna keep him on the field. And it also I think you wanna talk big picture here? Go back to the toughness thing. Really, the last 2 draft classes that Les Snead has put together, think of all the guys that contributed tonight. Defensively, Jared Verst and Braden Fisk and, Byron Young and Kobe Turner and Cam Kitchens, and then offensively,

Puka

Nakua and even a guy like Beau Limmer. At center. Kyron's in his 3rd year.

Avila was out there, and in the spring game, Tukunacua was, like, half the battle, and that that's all about Avila.

I can't believe I forgot Avila and then and mentioned Beau Limmer, the rookie center from Arkansas. But you you get my point is that these are not only just guys that are out there playing. They are key foundational building blocks that help you win this game, especially on the defensive side.

Yeah. So Kobe Turner, they had a great stat on the broadcast from next gen stats that he had 4 pressures in the first half. On every 1 of those 4, he was double teamed. I started counting the drives that he ended. There was 1 with a sack.

There was 1 with a run stuff. There was 1 with a pressure where he got right in Purdy's face and and helped force an incompletion. And then in the second half, he killed another 1 with a sack. Even on, the the interception that we're gonna listen to in about 10 seconds, Kobe Turner gets the pressure right in his face. Braden Fisk was there too.

Turner ends up with 5 pressures on the night, 2 sacks, but verse and fist both had 3 pressures too. So you're right. It's all about those young guys. Let's listen to our friend JB again.

2 to snap it for Purdy. He does beat the clock. Back to pass, drifting to his right, launches down the right number. This ball's in the air. This ball's picked.

Intercepted at the goal line. Darius Williams goes to get it right in front of Juwan Jennings, and LA has the first takeaway of Thursday night football.

Jamie is so good at what he does, by the way.

He's so good. He he's the best. You 2 are are my favorites to listen to every Sunday.

You're too kind.

Dan Miller's great. Can I

put a

book? Dan Miller with the lines is amazing. But fun fun fact, when I was an intern at sports radio 570, not not 980, then it was 570 WTEM back in Washington, Dan Miller was the we could say Redskins. Redskins beat reporter back then. Dan Miller, believe it or not.

And Steve Colby, who is the board op, was later the voice of the Capitals. That's a whole another book to be written.

It's, you know, it's it's the it's the place where legends are born, back there. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what that That interception came with 514 left. It was a 9, 6 game.

The 40 niners were close to field goal range.

Yeah. They marched out of the field, and it was fantastic. Can I go back real quick, put a button on that, Braden Fisk and and Jared Versace?

Please.

So because I have Brown's Chiefs this week, obviously. So doing my research this afternoon for that 1, Chris Jones, Miles Garrett, 2 great defensive pieces here. Clearly, Miles Garrett is now half a sack away from 100. His, 29th birthday is going to be I think it's December 29th, so he'd be, like, the first guy with a 100 before he turns 29, something like that. Anyway, here's the list most pressures most quarterback pressures this season.

This was before tonight's game. Trey Hendrickson, number 1, 65. Jonathan Grenard, number 2, 60. Chris Jones, number 3, 59. Tied with Chris Jones, rookie Jared Verz with 59, and then Miles Garrett, 58.

That's your top 5.

So And you saw it tonight. Like, that 1 pressure he had that helped kill a drive, it's not always about getting the sack or getting the quarterback hit, especially when they're working well as a team. And you saw it, you said on the on the last play. They all work really well as a group, and the whole idea that him and Fisk would work well as a tandem, so maybe let's draft them together. It's working.

Like, they they play literal games all the time together, and it's really effective. And it's helped the Rams win different sorts of ways. This is not a great defense every single week, but some weeks, the pass rush has carried them, and that's something that you weren't expecting going into the season.

No. Not at all. And and, conversely, there have been plenty of games this year where the secondaries let them down. And, you know, starting with Tredavious White, now he's in Baltimore. You go back and you watch when these 2 teams first met Rams Niners earlier in the year.

Tredavious White was obviously on the field. Rams still have, I think, an issue at corner that they have to address, but you go out and get Cam Curl. Cam Kitchen started slowly, but has certainly come on and at his moments this year as well. Another guy I'd mentioned before in this year's draft class. Their defense overall, their numbers aren't good, but they've been good enough in the moments they need them to make a run like they did last year.

What? 7 and 1? 7 what? It's 7 and 2 after the buy, whatever it is.

Oh, I can count 4 games this year where their defense kinda carried them for most of the game and just waited for the offense to do something. The Raiders game, the Saints game, this game, and having a handful of those games, it's just not something that happened in previous iterations. And they needed to because the first half of this game was a disaster. It was raining buckets. But even before it was, Stafford nearly threw an interception on I I think it was his first throw.

It's certainly the first drive. They go for they go Stafford kicked

off 3 times in the Q1.

Right. So they got lucky, in the first half. Stafford goes 4 for 12 for 33 yards. The Q1 was was the first time in Sean McVay's era. I was listening to to JB on the call that they didn't have a first down.

Like, they they punted 4 straight times. So, again, it was the defense keeping the minute and waiting. But the second half, unlike the 40 niners, Stafford gets it going 12 for 15 for 127, makes all the right decisions. They were aggressive on that final drive, throwing the ball to to pick up the first downs they needed. A great 4 minute drive, which got them a field goal and basically gave the 40 niners any time.

And on the flip side, Purdy was kind of a mess the whole game and giving you a little bit of flashbacks to that Packers game last year where he struggled in the rain, and it said he said it affected him. And it felt like it affected him tonight, and he wasn't any better in the second half. He missed not just on the interception, which to me was more of a bad decision, but he just missed throws. And and you wonder if it was the moisture or what it was, but it's kinda continued a very up and down season. Pretty sad at incredible games.

I thought he played amazing last week, and then he has a a night like tonight, and he's had a few too many of those.

You you wonder as well if Deebo hadn't dropped that ball on Slant in the first half. You know, Purdy put it on him. Does that change the momentum? Does that change Purdy? I don't think 1 play necessarily makes you a more accurate quarterback in the second half if all of a sudden someone catches the ball in the first half, but these things spiral out of control.

Rosenthal, I'm looking down here because I'm looking at my niners Twitter. We have a developing situation in Santa Clara, Joe Biden's side. Kyle Shanahan says Devondre Campbell refused to go in the game when asked in the Q3 Oof. And says he doesn't wanna talk about it anymore. I got my TV on up here.

I got, the prime post game on right now. They have images of Davondre Campbell walking to the locker room during the game with a towel over his head. I was making dinner. I might have missed that, but Kyle says he refused to go in the game. We'll deal with it later.

Chavarria Chavarria asked about it. He said he's probably getting cut.

Yeah. No kidding. I was gonna say, well, this is a rare case while it's happening live. I can tell you how it ends. He's either he's not gonna take another snap for the 40 niners ever again.

He wasn't playing well when he was on the field anyways this season, and he will either be suspended or cut, but he's not gonna hit the field. The reason why they Johnson

kind of thing. They suspended him in Baltimore.

Right. But they I don't know if they're gonna cut him. Campbell's towards the end of his career. This is the end of the season. And the reason he was being asked to go on the field, I would guess, is because Dre Greenlock could not make it through this game.

And to me, that was so important, not just to this game, but so symbolic of their season. A heart and soul of this defense, and they look different with him on the field, man. Kyron Williams, you don't see him get pushed back too often. He's such a tough runner. Greenlaw hit him backwards a few time.

He had 8 tackles in the first half of that game. He made a big difference. Suddenly, you saw the vision. Him and Mustafa and Hufungas, who's now healthy, and Warner, like, that that's a group that hits that that is tough that's coming downhill. And when he wasn't in the game in the second half, and I don't think he played a snap after halftime, we're we're still waiting word what what happened there.

They just weren't the same defense. So that is a big big part of the 40 niners story this season, even though it's a bit of the Super Bowl hangover and Purdy, the discussion is gonna continue. Like, they have just been ravaged with injuries. And every time they feel like they get a good bit of news, like McCaffrey or Greenlach comes back, like, then he then he gets hurt again. So I thought that was a big moment in this game.

The, the quote from Kyle, he said he didn't wanna play today. What about DeVontre Campbell? Okay. So they gotta figure that out. The the Purdy thing to me is fascinating because listen.

We know his contract is a is a thing this offseason. I am on team Brock Purdy. I'm not gonna let, you know, an up and down season in which you don't have Trent Williams for extended periods of time, in which you have Christian McCaffrey for a month, and he wasn't the Christian McCaffrey that he was a year ago, not even close with all the other injuries on the defensive side that affects you on the offensive side. I'm not going to take this season and say this is who he is. I've seen greatness from the guy.

But you know that come March, the the conversation is going to be, is Brock Purdy still the guy and at what price? And, oh my god, do we pay him 45, 48? Do we pay him 50? What do we pay him? Do we give him 2 of money?

Do we go beneath that? Well, we wanna bring him back, but we don't think he's worth the elite money. The price is what the price is for the quarterback, period. Full stop. So, you know, I I kinda feel bad for him because now he's gonna get caught up in the conversation that I don't know that this year's necessarily his fault.

No. But it can show some of the limitations. I guess I would just say, does every quarterback have to become the highest paid quarterback in the world? No.

No. I I'm with you. I I'm with you on that. I I'm totally with you on that. But but then where do you put him?

Right. Like, it'll be close enough. It the differences aren't gonna be that much. Now if I'm Brock Purdy, do you consider a shorter term deal that's a little lower on a per year basis? It's life changing money for a 7th round pick like it would be for anyone, but especially for a 7th round pick.

I don't get why we're at this point that every single player has to get Mahomes money. Like, couldn't he slot somewhere between a Geno Smith contract and, like, a burrow contract? Like, it's it's somewhere halfway way in between where it's not it's it's not at the burrow sphere, but it's, like, $5,000,000 below. It's above it's above the Gino and Derek Carr tier, and everyone goes on their way.

Use Baker as the baseline. Sure. Add whatever percent you want and and then be happy with the deal. But if I'm his reps

Yeah. They just want more.

They want it all. I well, I mean, I'm gonna want more. I'm not gonna want Burrow money. I'm not gonna want golf money, but I'm gonna want good money. I you know what's gonna happen.

Let let here, let's start this now. So the the niners face plant down the stretch. The Vikings win at least a playoff game. Yeah. You're gonna have some niner fans saying, bring back Sam Darnold.

He showed that he now is better than Brock Purdy. Bring back Sam Darnold.

Well, good luck getting him. You know? I think the Vikings aren't gonna let him go. Though, I think they'll franchise tag. I I've just started to think about that this week, but they have all the cap room in the world, and I'm thinking, I'll just give them the franchise tag, pay them 45,000,000, whatever it is next year that seems crazy, but they can fit it very easily, and then just see how JJ McCarthy looks and and have him come back.

But you're right. That that will be the conversation. I don't think the 40 niners will let it get that far because I I think you would think they would learn something from what happened with Ayuk and Trent Williams this this year, but especially Ayuk where I I thought that poison the entire season the way that they went through training camp. It was incredibly bad vibes. I think Deebo Samuel, you mentioned the drop.

It was a rough game. I mean, he got booed from the whole the home crowd. They targeted him 7 times, Andrew. 16 yards. They ran him twice for 3 yards.

I actually think his rushing totals where he's averaging way under 3 yards per carry this year, and they keep trying to give it to him is a very significant indicator that he's just not the same player or how they use him doesn't work like it used to. It's a combination of both. Doesn't miss tackles. And I was thinking, man, this is a bummer and but this is how it happens. He probably has 1 game left in his 40 niners career at home, and and it's sad to see him getting booed, like, in his second to last game there.

Yeah. I think he said this week as well, and maybe I imagine this, but I'm pretty sure I saw it where he said about using the run game. It it's not like a secret anymore. Yeah. Right?

Like, if they're gonna put me in the backfield, big deal. Like, I mean, okay. I'm a running back on this play. It's not like it's some subterfuge where they put him in the back field and people start losing.

Yeah. But he's 1 of the least effective running backs in the league.

That's the

thing is, like, you'd be much better off with Patrick Taylor out there or obviously Isaac Garinda, who, by the way, think he they got something there. He looks pretty good.

Yeah. The guy can run. I mean, he's as fast as it gets. And by the way, Patrick Taylor, you ever go back and look at that Memphis team, all the guys they had on that Memphis team with Patrick Taylor?

I didn't I didn't even know Patrick Taylor went to Memphis.

So, Harry, you want this is might be, like, the greatest

collection. Know this. It's 1 of Tulane's biggest rivals. It's always a problem for Tulane.

So at 1 point, Memphis had Antonio Gibson, Darrell Henderson, Patrick Taylor

Okay.

Kenneth Gainwell, and 1 other guy. I can't remember. Hold on. Darrell Henderson and Tony Pollard.

Oh, I knew there was someone

Oh, wait.

Wait. Actually. And Calvin Austin.

Man.

They were all on the same 2018 Memphis team.

They, they know where to find them. And, yeah, Taylor was in there, but if you started Grendo in in fantasy, a lot of people were on the borderline this week. Like, he didn't do great, but he he got you 75 yards. Puka Nakua, by the way, like, even on a night where he had nothing in the first half, breaks open for, a plus 50 yarder. The the 40 niners actually are the best in the entire NFL at preventing plus 20 catches.

They hadn't in weeks, so it is hard to get behind that defense. Puka is just on another level. Even in a night like this where they could not throw the ball at all, he goes 7 for 97. Cooper Kupp did not have a catch, which is absolutely wild, but that that that shows you who who's the 1, who's the 2. The Rams, as you mentioned, they have the Jets, the Cardinals, and the Seahawks down the stretch.

The the next gen stats has them as 5050 to make the playoffs. I feel like it's a little more because it just to me, it feels like, well, if they if they win a week 18, they're in, and I give them a better than 50% chance of doing that because it's at home, but the Seahawks will have something to say about it. We we thought this was gonna be a 4 team race. It really now looks like a a 2 team race and a and a sweet victory for for Rams and their coach and and Sean McVay.

The Jets game, the Rams now get the extra time. Who knows what the Jets gonna look like in 2 weeks Mhmm. 3 days before Christmas. And then week 17 is a flex game that very well could be a Saturday, 1 of the NFL Network tripleheader games. And then Sunday could be flexed week 18 to Sunday night.

So you could have 2

They're they're gonna be in down the stretch. They're gonna be in the mix here down the stretch, and, you will as well. Now 1 of the reasons you're on tonight was we thought we'd get you for a Rams. I mean, a Browns post t and f game where you're doing the game, and you would have been trying to do double duty and do NFL daily afterwards. But they actually flexed the Browns out with Browns Bengals, And now it's next week, it's Broncos, chargers.

So I feel like this is a little treat that I got to spend a little time virtually with my friend, Andrew, and we get you those great pipes and your great knowledge on NFL daily. Appreciate you, Andrew.

Hey, man. I've had a blast. I'm, as I said, at the top, honored and flattered that you invited me. We could have done after the Browns and, Steelers in the snow because I had to wait for, like, an hour to get out of there. The snow was so bad, and the traffic was so bad.

I had all the time in the world.

Yeah. That was that was a sneaky classic. I, I've enjoyed watching the Browns this year. After Deshaun Watson was gone, they've they've been pretty entertaining. So, hopefully, they keep it.

Maybe maybe they can have their Super Bowl moment this Sunday against the Chiefs. I hope for for your sake. I should have waited this long in the show to mention, we're not just talking t and f on this program. Our friend, Ali Connelly, who's been on NFL daily multiple times, just happened to basically break the Bill Belichick story, and I'm I'm such a fan of, Ali's and have been obviously a fan and a close watcher of Belichick, and the whole story is fascinating to me. So we're gonna throw it after the break to a conversation with myself and Ollie Connolly.

He's gonna talk about kinda what went into the decision, what's next for the Belicheck clan. We'll we'll talk about how we think, it'll all work. We'll do that again after the break. Thank you, Andrew. Well Thank you.

This will be the first time. It will not be the last. Looking forward to having you, again, back in the Alright. Welcoming into the program we could not escape this week before talking to our friend, Ollie Connolly of the read optional substack. If if you weren't subscribed already, like, you gotta check out his piece on Bill Belcek joining UNC, earlier this week, Ollie.

I mean, I'm just looking at Twitter, looking at blue sky, and I'm hearing oh, did you did you see do you see this Belichick news? I was like, no. What is it? And I look at and the news is from Ali Connolly, our friend who was on NFL daily within the first couple weeks of us launching, and we we did a a very, you know, scene podcast about Kirk Cousins. We'll get to that later.

And then was with us on 1 of my favorite episodes of the year, the the London recap, actually brought broke the news that Bill Belichick was looking hard at this UNC job and was the first to report it. Like, how how the hell did this happen, Ollie? And are you enjoying your victory lap?

Enjoying your victory lap, I guess not. It's a weird 1. I'm not usually in the news breaking game. I think people saw me do that. They're like, wait a second.

Is he just, like, making a joke? He must be this the weird scheme guy no 1 knows in some attic in Manchester. I don't think this could be true. Is this Kirk Cousins? Is this a journalist?

Who is this person? So, yeah, a bit peculiar, but interesting nonetheless.

Yeah. So kinda to back it up, maybe some people were confused too because the whole situation was confusing. There was no way for you to escape that. When you first reported that Belichick was taking the job, essentially, the job didn't exist. It was essentially that it was, in your words, accepting a job that he was proposing that the UNC would have to do all these things, upgrades and investments and jobs, not just his job, but a general manager, which we've now found out is gonna be Michael Lombardi.

And all of this, this this 400 page organizational bible, essentially, that he gave to them, like, how how did this come to you or whatever you're comfortable saying or just, like, how did this come about in in reality? Let less about you and and more just about, like, how did this happen?

Yeah. I think that look, yeah, the NFL situations were closed off that he had, from what I understand, 1 conversation with 1 team who had a current coach, none of the teams with vacancies were interested. The conversation did not go well. Probably worse than the conversations went last year when he had, obviously, 1 interview as everyone knows and didn't make the finalists top 3 finalists for the Falcons job. And I think it was pretty clear the NFL was unlikely to be an option, at least in the way he would want it to be.

And obviously, control is a a huge element for him. And not just control, but who he can actually staff a building with in every department, not just on the coaching staff. And the the thing that has jumped out to me throughout all of this, and the reason why I kind of went with it early compared to everyone else's, they've been looking at college gigs for like a year. This was not like a this 1 popped up, and I wrote a too long story today. People can go and read it.

It's 8 1,000 words. It gets into every single detail of what's happened over a season. They were doing background research on how things went wrong for Bill Walsh when he returned to college as an NFL legend, out of the game for 3 seasons, had 3 Super Bowls, went back to Stanford, and it went pretty miserably for Bill Walsh. They were looking into what went wrong there with a legend turned media personality turned college football coach. And it got my antenna up of, oh, it's interesting you guys are all reading this book.

I wanna read that book now too. It's called Rough Magic. It's by Lowell Cohn, who oh, look, he's holding it up. We're such dorks, because I actually I thought, like, this is a good time to kinda just talk a little, you know, football dork book. Like, behind me, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see my little football library that my wife made me put out into the garage.

I don't know if these books are gonna get ruined, but, yeah, I got some favorites here too. I there there's, like, that book, the genius about Bill Walsh, which by David Harris, which kinda was sad and made made me think he didn't really enjoy being Bill Walsh totally. 1 thing I got from your article, and, again, read optional, everyone subscribe. Like, I don't ask for much. We, you know, we we have advertising and stuff, but support good football writing and great football podcasting.

I've been checking out, all these podcasts with John Ledyard for a while, and it's really worth it. But the the written article that you mentioned today is fascinating, and it got me sort of thinking, we'll get back to, like, the NFL not wanting him, but what does Bill Belichick really want in life? It's why I took the UNC stuff seriously just from seeing it. Obviously, the it was from you, but there were other people too. Because it made sense, like, Bill Belichick's not enjoying being in the media.

Like, what is gonna make him happy in life? It's gonna be coaching. And if the NFL is not giving him a job or he's unsure if he could possibly get a job, then I'll coach where where I can coach. And, like, that group that you're talking about around him that's maybe reading the book, like, is it safe to say it's, like, the same it's the say it's like is it is it is it the same

the same cast of characters that everyone could reel off their hands, including mister Lombardi, who was named general manager within 20 minutes of of build

Well and you reported too on that Steven Belacek's involvement is is part of the whole deal at UNC?

Yeah. And a conversation going in of, I would like this in writing that he would be head coaching waiting some kind of guarantee. I think that was a real big, like, woah. That's not really what we're interested in, but as you as you were saying before, he went in and just shot for the moon. If I'm going to do this, we need to be competitive.

We need to go from being a academic institution with a famous basketball team to being a football school. It's a football program. It's a football factory that I control and that just happens to be tied to a school. That was the plan, that was the pitch, this is what you need. Resources, staffing, 2 separate staffs, right, a recruiting staff, that is not for me.

I'm good. Michael and someone else will control that for me. They'll be the conduit. I'll sign things off. I'll watch some tape.

I'll close the deals like Dion does at Colorado, and I'll run the football side. I'll bring all my friends in. We'll get the NFL guys. I'll get some guys I know from college, and I'll run the football department and be just the CEO of the program. And I think to your point about what did he want, that's the real difference in dichotomy between Walsh.

That's why the book is so fascinating, why it's so interesting that they were reading this a year ago, is Walsh went back into school to kinda prove something to himself about his offensive system, thought he missed coaching, thought he missed the whistle and the grass and being around the players, but it was really internally about Bill Walsh and his struggle with, like, losing a grip on being the coach, like the personality of genius coachman. Whereas Bill Belichick realized, I just missed the actual coaching, the technique of it, actually having the whistle, being involved with people day to day, being with my son in the film room and breaking down things. We don't spend a lot of time together. My grandkids are all over the place. Us all being in 1 hub.

I'm not gonna get that in Jacksonville. I'm not gonna get that in Dallas. I can get it in Carolina, and I'll do it if they acquiesce to 10,000 things. I need to make it competitive so I don't embarrass myself and spoil my legacy at the end here, and they agreed to it all.

Right. He's competitive, and so I think you wrote great, you know, great about it. It's multiple things can be true that it it's the joy of it. He he's getting towards the end of life. Hell, I'm in my mid forties.

I think about the end of life and, like, what matters and and finding my joy and everything, like, on a hourly basis. I'm sure Bill Belichick does as well. And so having that opportunity to just, like, coach with his son, like, that to me and just coaching in general probably is the the biggest draw, but, like, he also knows about legacy. He doesn't want his last game coaching, and I had to check this out. The a 17th to 3 loft to the Jets.

It is sad. Like, coaching careers always end poorly. Like, Vince Lombardi, more or less died on the job for coaching a mediocre Washington team, which is, you know, about about as sad as it gets. Like, that didn't ruin his legacy. No 1 no 1 really cares.

No 1 really remembers that. Bill what Bill Belichick did did is not gonna change, but I did have to go check that their last game I mean, you it can't get lower than this. Ended the Patriots 15 game winning streak over the Jets, and it was to the Trevor Simeon led Jets with Zappy. Zappy going 12 or 30.

And it was in the snow, if you remember, and snow was, like, clustering on his face. And it was just, like, the most sad, depressing. And the legacy thing to me is interesting because people are banding around this idea of the Win's record. Right? Like, oh, he's gonna come back for the Win's record.

In what world did anyone even care about the wins record, frankly, before, like, 3, 4 years ago? Was that even brought up ever in the case of his Don Shula better than Bill Belichick? No. We go by Lombardi's, mostly, or innovation. Right?

When I was asking people about that midway through being like, is this really gonna swing a decision? Like, surely, if someone just came to him with the same offer of you run a franchise, he'd take the NFL. The answer was yes. That was not gonna happen in this go around, and he did not want to be left at the altar. It publicly embarrassed again that he was left out of a hiring cycle, so he jumped at the first opportunity that was there that would meet his demands.

The boat that he has is called 8 Rings. It is not called 333 wins. He does not care about the wins record. He cares about the championships. That's what drives him.

And then the coaching day to day aspect, I think, is really, really critical that being able to be on the field every day, teaching technique, the things that he really enjoys, and doing it with a group of coaches who are essentially family at this point. That's why they all hang around with him all the time. We may think that some of them are laughable or funny when they go other places. They're really meaningful to him, and so to be able to get them all back together again, coaching, I think, is the reason why he's doing this.

Yeah. Matt Patricia, outside of the Patriots ecosystem, probably worthy of your laughs, but he were he worked inside he worked inside the the Patriots ecosystem. Lombardi, that's a bit of a red flag. Always was. I always was like, Like, when you'd see them at the combine and they're at Schulers, ironically, the the now closed, you know, bar and steak place.

And it's it's just Belichick and Lombardi, or it's like Belichick, Lombardi, and and 1 other coach or whatever, and you're like, he really likes this guy. Like, this is really the guy he wants to bounce off of. And so I think there is a concern that okay. It makes sense. He wants the silo.

I don't wanna deal with the the money part of it, NIL.

Like, Lombardi's

gotta do it, but man, I'm a little concerned that Lombardi's in charge of all that.

I think the misunderstanding of the Lombardi thing is, from what I understand, is that is very much as a buffer for all the college bull have to deal with. When there's the booster club meeting, and Bill's supposed to go, and people will be disappointed because Bill doesn't wanna go do the booster club meeting. He wants to be watching film of Wake Forest or Richmond, I guess, because that's who they have to play next season. Not the Bengals, not the Cowboys, he's gonna play Richmond next season. That's actually a thing that's happening with Bill Belichick.

He's gotta be playing against, Tulane excellent red shirt freshman, Darian Mensah, who was ESPN's number 1 guy in the portal. He left us, and he's now at Duke. So the big Darian Mensah versus came, it, like, blows my mind. Sorry.

Lombardi is nothing if not, smooth and comfortable in, like, c suite situations. And so I think sending him along is kinda like the chaperone of a face of the program behind the scenes as the filter to Bill helps them deal with all the shenanigans. People like, Bill Belichick doesn't wanna go and do those things. He doesn't wanna go to the luncheon. Well, you said Michael Lombardi, who can glad hand and smile and is charismatic with these people, and that limits some of the impact.

I know you can roll your eyes, and I agree with you, But in those circles, you know this too, that he can at least operate in those situations for him.

No. That's an important skill. I always thought 1 of Mike Tannenbaum's best skill, and I I like Mike Tannenbaum. He's obviously extremely intelligent, but 1 of his best skills is, like, he's good at talking to owners. Some someone needs to be able to to do that, and Lombardi can maybe fulfill that service, kind of be a high level, almost assistant on on some level, like, a personal assistant, but on a more, like, business, you know, football.

Like, do you think Bill Belichick will be a good college coach? Let's just, like, take out the NIL and recruiting and everything else. Like, brass tacks, he's gonna be game planning for these teams. Like, what do you think that looks like? Yeah.

He's gonna be game planning against Dabo, Sweeney, and Mario Cristobal. I feel pretty confident that Bill Belichick will be okay, frankly. I think any notion that he's not is pretty silly. I do think there's an interesting thing going on in college sports, schematically, at the football level, where the college game was more advanced than the NFL defensively, 4, 5, 6 years ago, because you could just have so many people on campus for so long, for a sustained amount of time. The guys like Kirby Smart and Nick Saban have more complex systems than people in the NFL, where you're bringing a street free agent to play quarterback for 1 week, and you're you're not able to install systems year after year after year, where they have a lot of reading on the fly complex things.

As now, every season is just build a team year by year, bring this transfer in, bring that transfer in. I do think that it's gonna become less complex, and that to me is the the thing I'm looking forward to seeing is how complex does Bill Belichick want to be? That was the thing Bill Walsh ran into, did not wanna change what he thought was the perfect football system for the college level, but then he's also the most adaptable coach we've ever seen. That's the greatness. The greatness is not 1 great scheme, 1 great innovation.

It's knowing how to tailor the scheme to the players he has available and how to teach basically everything in football on all sides of the ball, special teams, offense, defense. And so I think if you give this guy a chance to be adaptable week to week defensively against the what college has to offer, the I honestly think he'd run circles around defensively.

Yeah. I tend to agree. Because that that never left it, and you made that point too in the article. Like, they were they were 8th in EPA per play allowed last year, the Patriots. And they actually improved after it came out that Belichick was, essentially gonna get fired.

But that does leave the offensive side, like, is like, we haven't heard any reporting, like, is it gonna be Josh McDaniels there? I feel better about that than, like, you know, we're sending Matt Patricia back over to the offensive side. It's like, you know, he he he sewed he didn't have, like, a magic wand that was gonna be able to fix what was going on on the Patriots offensive side the last couple of years.

No. But I I think that I would be really surprised if there were not at least a bunch of little minion y hotshot RPO Kings rolling around there who are friends with Steven, or have got a recommendation from Jed Fish or Nick Saban, and guys who can at least put input in. But I have no idea what it's gonna look like. Will he try and do the Herm Edwards things, where it's like actually an NFL team in college football that becomes a disaster and everyone gets in legal trouble? Like, that's plausible.

This is Bill Belichick. But I I I would think the just be wanting to win will override the rest of it.

Yeah. I'm I'm, like, excited to see it, and he's so he's so cognizant of football history, but I don't I don't think, like, he's gonna be, like, a a prisoner to that. Like, he grew up on college campus. So another book I have here, you know, sitting here, is the old football scouting method methods by Steve Belicheck, which, you know, he he wrote at the US Naval Academy and and famously got to stay there forever and and never never tried to become the head coach in a way because he thought it was more stable and he had a better family life and stay you know, that's basically where Belichick grew up as a kid and as a coach on some level because he was essentially a coach as a 14 year old hanging out with his dad, and now he can kind of return the favor. I'm I'm optimistic as a Belichick Balachekian.

Like, I've gotten used to this already. I I it makes sense to me that the NFL ultimately wasn't that interested, which, like, are do you think, like, teams are making a mistake by not wanting Belichick at the NFL level?

I I I think I don't think they're making a mistake if it was that you're we're gonna hand a 73 year old at the start of the next season our entire operation from the nutrition staff to the analytics department for what, 3, 4, 5 seasons. That I completely understand that. Teams just don't operate that way anymore. They're really siloed. They bring coaches in and out.

The coaching staffs are so transient. Some quarterback coach goes here, some guy comes over here, you get assistant head coach the following season, right? So I get that. As just the coach, it is still mind numbing to me, and just jaw dropping, that 11 months ago, we, as a collective public, I think, Greg, you're probably doing this too, right? We're discussing maybe axing Nick Sirianni to slide in Bill Belichick, and just looking at different circumstances of competitive playoff teams.

Would they be better off letting go of their good to average to maybe very good coach in place of Bill Belichick. And 11 months later, he's going to a middle class second to college football program.

Yeah. Middle class is generous. I mean, it's in an upper class relatively, you know, conference, but it it's at the bottom of it, the ACC, which which is an opportunity for him. You know, kinda you you wanna the old Parcels is you wanna take over the team when they're at the bottom. You're right.

That Eagles example, though, that was maybe the 1. Because there was reporting by Seth Wickersham that he was telling the Falcons that he didn't need to take over all the operations. But if you're the GM there, you know,

you know

There's just no way you'd buy that.

Yeah. There's no way you'd buy. He has a 30 year track record. It's And it's and

I think, like, the 1 of the the least, admirable things, you know, throughout this season if you wanna get on Belichick or certainly but Lombardi is, like, they were hammering the Falcons, the Jets, and the Patriots in their media appearances, especially Lombardi. He had a little pet name, like, calling their GM a name, like, over and it's like, okay. You you're obviously just, like, kind of

I know. And it's it's not like they hired a dunderhead in Atlanta. They got Raheem Morris.

Right.

This is a good hire. This is a great coach. They know he's an excellent coach, whether it works or not. Long term, they signed a a quarterback maybe they should not have done. Like, the you can definitely quibble with the, GM on whether he should have got full power or just coach power, but to take shots at them because you didn't get a coaching job when a very qualified good coach got the job is a bit strange.

Right.

Which is why I'm I'm actually I'm glad he's going back to coaching, because if he was gonna do the media, like, do it. Give us some real takes. But really, it felt like settling scores and being as vague as possible while he was doing his real job, which was making this 400 page bible and looking for another job. I mean, it it is amazing how he could pull off having 8 different media jobs at at the same time. What do you think this manual was like?

Are are we ever gonna see this manual?

Well, I know. It's so frustrating. As I was told, I could release portions of it. If he didn't get the job, then he got the job. That was that was a killer.

That was a killer. And the people really got carried away with that. There was, you know, Justice for Carla Stallions. When he does it, it's a bible. When a white job does it, it's a manifesto.

I get all that. This is not an unusual thing. I get why it caught fire, because it's Belichick. It's like, wow, what could possibly be in there? Like, that's the the thing you'll hold in the book there.

What what Belichick has been writing for 2 years, including in the final Patriot season, is his own version of the the winning edge. That's what he's been working

on. Yeah. Bill Walsh has this famous book, Finding the Winning Edge, that every football guy has in their library and speaks as, like, the holy bible. And, you know, not exactly a quick read for the average, fan, but it is interesting. It's basically how to build an organization and how to coach from from the ground up.

And so I always thought it would be interesting to see, like, an updated version of that, and this would be that.

Yeah. And he had a college 1 written and a NFL 1 written. The reason why I report that at the time that I thought was interesting is he had tailor made the college 1 for Carolina. Right? So it's an examination of the depth chart, it's transfer targets.

It's why would this man go through this trouble? Why there was graphics in his presentation. Can you imagine Bill Belichick sat at a laptop screen designing cool graphics about titans? I cannot. Therefore, I was like, it's pretty clear these guys are interested seriously in the job if demands will be met.

He's not gonna sit down on Photoshop or whatever he did to work through his bible.

Well, he's definitely got someone younger with him. Right? He's got he's got I mean, it's like, yeah, my son is much better making slide shows for his class than I am. He's got someone working with him, but it shows it shows how serious it is. He is.

I'm excited about it. Like, he's much I think he's gonna be much more fun to watch from afar and cover than than have as, like, a fellow media member. How how does it feel for you? You know, you're wearing that Boston hat. Mhmm.

You're you're a young guy. You know, you you've had some experience with this coaching tree. You you kind of reveal in the in the article. Again, everyone check out the read optional substack. Like, how does it feel to be a a little speck, a little part of the Belichick story here?

You have the the guy the guy

who got it out there as the that he's going to UNC shocked the world.

I guess, I think my mistake is a insider if I'm critiquing myself as being almost too detailed, I think. I think if there's more vagaries, people are liable maybe to believe it more. I gotta just put out the exact contract, like, in in full, which I don't think is normally how the insider game goes. I think you just say deal close or stumbling blocks rather than articulating it, but, it feels slightly surreal. I guess the payoff for having, like, tons of Dunkin' Donuts with guys 10 years ago around Boston College, you know, maybe that's what it is.

I'm writing 12,000 words about why Zac Bourne is the best off ball linebacker in the NFL. You know, the reward is getting a 24 hour heads up on Bill Belichick, I guess.

So you go in Bonn over Warner for your all pro team. Oh, wait. You can you get 2 off ball linebacker? They could both go there.

I think you could squeeze both in.

Okay. Speaking of, you know, football takes, you were on an episode first 1 on that you were on on NFL daily was an episode entitled, what if the bad Kirk Cousins shows up this year? It happened. Like, talk about patting yourself on the back. This is a big week a big week, big month.

You know, you famously look a lot like Kirk Cousins if you're watching. And and how how do you feel watching your namesake, how he's playing lately?

I feel sad watching it. That his arm strength just eroded in the middle of the season. It wasn't that strong to begin with. He couldn't move at the beginning of the season. They had to overhaul their entire offense to hide the fact he couldn't move.

And then they got him to move a little bit, and somehow that seemed to evaporate his arm. And so there's elements of it, and then just making really, really peculiar decisions because he just cannot drive the ball into coverage anymore. So yeah. And I I I've written and I believe that you took Michael Penech with the 1st pick. This was always the bite you're gonna get yourself into.

What if his contract is a dud from the get go? And I think they've got a decision to make, and the decision, I think, will be go and find out what you have in the rookie sooner rather than later.

I kinda get why they're sticking with him this 1 week, because he really did do a lot of good things, Kirk, last week. Like, it it felt like it was like, you saw a lot of things you wanted to see, but then you saw the the 2 interceptions that kind of ruined the rest of the positive stuff. But I I kind of would wanna see it maybe for 1 more week before pulling the plug. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm sentimental.

I don't know his sentimentality. We've seen him have, like, 3, 4, 5 solid week stretches in the season, but once the arm goes at that rate, and you're playing week after week, and absorbing shots, or refusing to take hits because they start to really, really hurt when you're getting older, I'm not sure what you can do around that, which would be the concern is that he feels liable now for 5 ducks a game, and you're just really hoping that 2 of them don't wind up with the other team.

It's depressing. But also makes me feel good, because we really didn't do an episode quite like that during the rest of the pre season. That was just, like, a thought experiment. Like, everyone's just assuming that this is gonna be some good great Kirk Cousins experience. He wasn't always great And then even when he was healthy.

It feels like their answer to our question, what happens, is they're just like, let's try and hide and pretend like this isn't happening. And hopefully, no 1 sees the stat lines of 0 touchdowns, 14 turnovers in a 3 week run.

Oh, yeah. I mean, they did such a admirable job. I thought he did too. It was almost like they were they were playing football with, like, these ankle weights and with just all sorts of restrictions in this tiny little box, and they were kinda making it work, which I thought was impressive for a while. Ali Connolly, he loves ball.

Maybe that's why you got this story because they saw a like minded individual in Ali Connolly, like a little salty, not afraid to puff his chest out. You you sent me a text if if people thought I was more unsufferable before, wait till after this. But, ultimately, it's about the joy that you're getting from from this game. Very cool, man. I'm glad, that, you know, it happened, that it's going, and and you're gonna have to be the Belichick inside of the next couple years in addition to all the x's and o's on the NFL that you're doing at the read optional.

I think a move to North Carolina might be on the cards. This could be happening.

Let's go. Yeah. Ali, if if you didn't know, is is living over, in the UK. That's where he was on that week 6 recap. We gotta get him on NFL daily more, maybe in the off season when the timing works out better.

Thank you Again, Ollie, it has been a big week. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in and listening. We will be back on Friday with the pick show with Cynthia Freeland against the spread. And, yeah, when Bill Belichick has a freaking head coaching job again, you know football is back. Finally.