Transcript of #670 - Erin Brockovich

Today's guest is an environmental activist and a consumer advocate. Her name is notorious with being for the people. She's known for leading some high-profile cases over the years. Lately, she's focused on the rise of data centers and their effects on life around them. I'm thankful today to spend time with Ms. Erin Brockovich. Shine on me, and I will find If you need to move this, Aaron, you can. Um, let me open your water. Sometimes these are very, uh, I've learned that over at the hotel.

I was like, my Lord, and I work out. I was like, I can't get it open.

That's the crazy thing about today, especially honestly with this Essentia company. They— I just opened it for you, but you can't even get in their waters. It's like, that's how bad it's gotten. That they, they almost keep you locked out of clean water in this country.

Yeah, that's why my daughter will carry a knife. Boom, she'll go just like that.

She's like that?

Oh yeah, she's military police. She's hilarious.

Oh, she's an MP?

She was, yes. They're, they're both out now. Both combat vet?

Yeah, your son was combat?

Yeah, my dad was Navy fighter pilot, so definitely, um, I'm a military mom and a military daughter.

Oh, that's beautiful. We'll thank them for their service from us. And thank you for your service. Uh, I know you as probably most of people, a lot of people do. I know you as an environmentalist, right? Kind of a truth seeker, I guess I would say, and like an activist, I guess. Does that— how do you like to be?

Yeah, I never say activist because that's always like a connotation. I advocate for clearly people.

What about the term like a consumer advocate? Is that fair to say, kind of?

A people advocate.

Okay, a people advocate. Me too. I feel like I try my best to be.

I do too.

Yeah. And for our listeners that don't know, how did you get on this track, right? Like, take me through your journey. You know, I know about the movie starring Julia Roberts that was made about your life, Erin Brockovich, but take us into the journey of like what happened to create the story that led to the film? Like, how did your activism like lead to one of the largest settlements at the time that had ever been? I think it was like over $300 million.

$333 million.

$333 million that was awarded at the time. At the time.

Is it now? They're settling for like $33 billion. It's not to laugh at, but, but hey, times have changed, dude.

Aaron walked to the bank so they could run to it, that's for sure. Uh, so take us— I want you to take us through that journey, uh, for our listeners that don't know. Obviously you had to care for the outdoors. How did that start?

Okay, well, I've always been an outdoor enthusiast. Uh, I was born and raised in Kansas. And I love the outdoors. Everything about it spoke to me, mostly because I hated school. I sucked at school. And it took years before they really understood I have dyslexia.

Oh, you do?

I do.

Let's go, dude. My friend has it.

I'm a dyslexic.

Hell yeah.

And so—

Dude, you guys don't get any credit.

I know.

You know?

And you probably shouldn't, and some of you shouldn't, but a lot of you guys should, dude.

You should, you know? Interestingly enough, off topic, and I'll just say it really quick. So I'm ambassador for Made by Dyslexia, run by Kate Griggs and Sir Richard Branson, who's also a dyslexic.

No way.

Yeah.

Dude, we got to get a good dyslexic on here.

You do. And they're everywhere. I know, dude.

Half of my friends are like, they can't even complete a handshake. They're just not doing good. You know, it's like—

We just like code differently. We have pattern recognition. But I didn't even know until I became ambassador for Made by Dyslexia that there's 1 billion dyslexics on the planet.

No.

1 billion.

1 billion D's in this world. That's crazy. Let me see.

Right?

A billion?

Nuh-uh.

I'm saying that's ridiculous.

Yeah.

I got to learn a little bit more about this. So take me through, you know, your journey or experience as like a human advocate, like as an environmentalist, you know? Can you just take us through that so that for our listeners that don't know?

So I have to say, I think I was as surprised as anybody else, honestly. So how it happened was, as I grew up in Kansas, went to school at Kansas State, then I went to a design school in Texas, and then I moved to California. I ended up being a regional manager for Kmart.

Oh yeah.

And I wasn't my favorite job. And then I ended up working at Fluor Engineers and Constructors. So I was raised by an engineer. It was kind of fun for me. I like to create things, et cetera, et cetera. Even though everybody always told me I couldn't do anything, you know, with the dyslexia.

Oh yeah.

So, but I always pushed against that. So I'm one that pushes against these things.

So out of the gate, that dyslexia might've gave you that edge. Like, ah, I can still do it.

It did. I was born, don't put me in a box because I will get out and I will kick and scream the whole way there.

So, amen.

I— that's one of my traits. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't want— none of us like it. I don't like being labeled and I like being judged. I don't like being put in a box.

I'm always like, mimes like it.

I'm like, fuck off. I mean, that's my motto. So, but I don't like—

what's your motto?

Fuck off.

That's a good motto.

Fuck it. Fuck you. Fuck off.

That's the best motto. That's what— that should become our national anthem in this, in this fucking country, to be honest with you. Okay.

So, but I'm an F dropper bomb, so I hope that doesn't offend anybody.

Yeah, we'll pick them up at the end of the show. Okay. So you got, you got the dyslexia, you got the spirit, you got what you need, right?

So I go through all this process. I end up getting married. That was the biggest mistake of my life. 3 times over and had children and Got in a car wreck in Reno, Nevada, and moved down to California, met an attorney by the name of Jim Vitato, who was Ed Masry's partner. So Ed Masry was the attorney in the film. And we had a trial and I lost. The jury told me to get a job.

You had a trial for what? Oh, for the auto accident?

For the auto accident.

Okay, got it.

And we lost. And of course, you know, the lawyers told me, we're gonna win all kinds of money and make this right by you, Erin. That did not happen. So, I went back to Ed Masry and I said, "You promised me things would be okay, and they weren't, and I need a job." So, Ed gave me a job. So, in the beginning of the film, Erin Brockovich, you'll see her doing all these interviews. And of course, I'd been a single mom, and I was turned down for every job. But I had Ed cornered. "You promised me something, and I showed up." Pay up, Eddie!

Pay up, Eddie!

It's that power of stick-to-itiveness that I talk about.

But when you show up, Things are different.

Right. And see, that's something, and we'll get into that in a minute. I don't wanna jump ahead of it, but that's what's going on right now out in this country. People are showing up.

Amen.

And I love it because I'm watching it. We all are, especially with the data centers. We're united, bipartisan. And when we get united, we change things.

Things can happen.

And I love it.

Amen. I love that.

And so that's what happened. I showed up with Ed. I ended up getting a job. Starting in the workers' compensation department. I like people. I'm a people person. I'm a chatty person. I want to know about you, what's going on in your life. That seems odd. So I was a perfect fit in the workers' compensation department. So one day Ed came into the office, just like you see in the film, with a big archive box of files.

Got it. And the movie is Erin Brockovich. For people that haven't seen it, you can go watch it.

It's starring Julia Roberts, starring Julia Roberts and Albert Finney.

And Albert Finney.

Oh, yes.

Great actors.

Known for her great push-up bra.

Yeah, I'd look, you know, I'd hold them in place. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I donate my hands to Hanes or whoever made that thing and let them just, you know, I'd be the wiring in that thing, baby. Anyway, let's move on.

I had to giggle when the film came out. I'm like, that's what you got out of the film was the push-up bra, not what happened to the people.

Well, so you got to bait and you got to get them on the hook.

You do.

So they were on the hook. But so you're working in workman's comp.

So I was working in workers' comp and then Ed brought a box in to me that was a PI case, personal injury case. And he said, do you know how to open a personal injury file? I had not a clue what I was doing, but I said, sure, I know how to open it. So when I started to go through the file, I'm like, okay, so I've now put myself out here. I don't know what I'm doing. I better learn what I'm doing.

Got it.

I started reading the files. Inside this file box were medical records.

Okay. So— and it's just one of the files that's like in the box.

Yeah, it was just everything about a personal injury case was thrown in a box. And what kind of made me go, well, that's odd, is there were real estate records in there. I'm like, why are real estate records and medical files in the same box?

Yeah.

And the reason for that was— to jump ahead and I'll go right back. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Pacific Gas and Electric was a utility company trying to buy Roberta Walker's property.

Okay. And Roberta Walker was one of the plaintiffs. One of the plaintiffs.

Right. Got it. And so she had contacted Ed because PG&E was trying to buy her house. And so she just threw everything into a box. As a matter of fact, Roberta kept everything in a suitcase, so it all just got thrown in a box. So I like, you know, I like a challenge. So I'm pulling everything out of the box, making my little piles. But I was curious about the medical records because they were of children and all— everything was done in a bar graph. So all their T cells were off, their white cells were off, their red counts were too high. Now I'm a mom and I'm thinking to myself, God, if I saw blood tests like this on my kids, what the fuck is this?

You'll be spooked.

Yeah. And so I started researching it more and it was leading me to cancer and diseases. So I asked Ed if I could go out to Hinckley, California, which he was thrilled to let me go. Nobody in the office liked me. I annoyed everybody. My skirts were too short. My attitude sucked. My bras were showing and nobody wanted me around. So I was like, Score! Get out of here and go.

That's classic.

So off I went to Hinckley, California.

And the reason why— so just to get a little bit clearer, so in this box, in this, um, this woman had hired the attorney for what purpose?

To settle a real estate claim.

Okay, so that's why the initial hiring was there, but then there was all these other records in there. Why was, uh, Pacific Gas trying to buy her house?

Because Roberta was on to something and they had water issues and PG&E was holding these town hall meetings trying to convince everybody that there was nothing wrong with the water. Now, I'll tell you something I've learned ever since I began Hinkley.

You—

You piss off one mom and you pissed off Roberta and they've got great instincts and they think you're lying to them. They're going to go find 10 other fucking pissed off moms and they're going to actually use these instincts and they will come at you. And so these moms were getting upset.

Hell yeah.

And they knew it was just that moment.

It's time for moms to get upset.

Oh, yeah. And they've got this hunch, this instinct, this intuition, and they make it their job to find out because you're— you've harmed their child.

Yeah.

And they don't believe you. And so that was the first clue for me, even in the files, talking to Roberta on the phone before I ever met her. Something was going on. And, you know, I have learned I always Listen and believe the people. And people will show up, but somebody else tells them. And when I first even started my work in Hinckley, I was getting the, "You're not a doctor. You're not a lawyer. You're not a scientist. You're not a politician." Yeah. Like, "So what do you do and why are you here and why should we believe you?" And I had a moment where I was gobsmacked. I'm like, It never dawned on me that I had to be any of that.

Right. All you have to be really is just a curious baddie.

Absolutely. And to be a human and to tell you those two-headed frogs in the green water coming out of your tap is fucked up and I'm not leaving. That's what happened.

I'm not leaving until these frogs have one head again.

So if you all think that's normal, I'm sorry. You call me crazy.

There's so much of that gaslighting. Like, you see that all the time. Even just like about podcasters talking with people like, you're not a politician, you're not like a, um, right, science, uh, sciencer. You're not a, uh, astronomer. Stop talking.

Yeah, cuz you're none of those.

And I'm like, bitch, but I'm fucking curious and I'm fucking loud.

That's right.

How about that?

Absolutely. And you know what, curiosity is a good thing. Yeah, it, it can oftentimes get you in trouble, but sometimes it's quite surprising where it might lead you.

Well, it just— I don't— it's not— things should be fair. But I think if things are fair, people can operate from a place of comfort, of peace, and a place that gives them more autonomy if things are fair. I know that there's going to be setbacks in life and some people aren't going to have the same advantages and people are going to have disadvantages and stuff like that. And some people are going to be born in less circumstances. But overall, if you could, I don't know. And I guess things are never fair, but it's like, I don't know. That's something I think that a lot of people try and fight for is things should be fair. You should be able to raise your kids in a healthy enough environment.

You know, that's a great word, fair. In Hinckley. What I have learned over 30 years is people and communities always handle the truth. They won't handle the lie. That lie is unfair. And when they're not told the truth, it's unfair that they have to suck up the consequences of that lie. So fair is an interesting word, and they were being treated unfairly.

Unfairly. Yeah.

Well, there's a lot of transparency issues now. We're going to get into some of that in a bit. Bit. But, um, all right, so you get out to Hinckley, California, and what's popping out there?

So all the trees are dying. I'm out there. First of all, uh, I'm— when I'm boots on the ground, and that's what I like to do, I'm out there generally barefoot. Um, I feel things, I connect to nature. And the moment I was there, I could feel something was wrong. You can just feel it. We're energy. Water is energy. An environment that's damaged, it's energy. Yeah, but the trees were dead. The cows were covered in tumors. People were reporting really bizarre things to me. They themselves had, you know, these chronic headaches, skin rashes, constant nosebleeds.

Yeah.

The fish had, you know, tumors on their body. The frogs had two heads and the water was green.

Are you serious?

I'm serious.

The frogs had two heads.

Two heads.

Bring up one of them. Well, two of them.

You got a two-headed frog on there?

Yeah. Hey, you want to see this two-headed frog? That's a lot of pedophiles used to have stuff like that.

You can see, like, so there's other chemicals that can cause frogs to have two heads.

Oh my God. Look at the second one. That one is—

They had two heads.

That one has dyslexia. Look at that one. Look at the green one.

Well, you know, I could believe that because definitely I've been told before You have two left.

Sorry to laugh at my own joke, but I thought that was—

Two different brains colliding together.

That was pretty good, I thought, based on the looks of that one.

If you can— It was stunning. And I'm from Kansas. I don't see this shit in Kansas.

Right. Well, that's probably because the nature was a little bit more like— I mean, if you're heading out to California, it's a place where there's a lot more probably industry going on and things could be a little bit more damaged, you know, because there's— But in Kansas, you're probably coming from a purer environment, I'm guessing. And also, dude, I remember a time in our town, like, people couldn't whistle for like 2 months or something. And maybe it was something in the air, something was going on. You know, we had a long, uh, what's it called when the moon and the sun cross each other? Eclipse. Yeah, yeah, we had an eclipse one time. I swear that thing lasted probably 3 days over there, and people couldn't whistle. Um, you couldn't hail a taxi for probably, you know, for half a week over there.

I've been down in Louisiana. I spent 6, 8 weeks down there on the— down in the bayou with the whole BP oil spill.

Oh, did you really? We'll get into some of that.

Yeah.

Um, okay, so you get out to Hinckley, you're seeing all these things going.

By the time I finally got Ed to go out there with me.

He did not know who PG&E was. So we're driving along. He goes, okay, so kid, let's go over this. And I've seen all the stuff you've brought back. PG&E's a water utility. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah. I go, and I'm from Kansas and I know who PG&E is. They're a ginormous utility. He's like, what? So that's how the whole thing began. And so it was through my record search at the water board That's when I started discovering in writing reports that the area was contaminated with a chemical known as hexavalent chromium.

Wow. Bring it up. Let me see it right there. Hinckley groundwater contamination. PG&E, Pacific Gas and Electric, used chromium-6 or hexavalent chromium, a cheap and efficient rust suppressor, Correct. In its compressor station for natural gas transmission pipelines. Hexavalent chromium compounds are genotoxic carcinogens. What does that mean? Genotoxic?

And they're mutagenic. They can affect the genes.

And they can be passed on?

Correct.

Oh my God.

And you can see trisomy 7 and different diseases like that in the children. See, and I was seeing a pattern of nasopharyngeal cancer, throat cancer, lung cancer, kidney cancer.

Got it.

So as I started, we could at this point, getting a year into it, Ed can clearly see what's going on. Now, what had happened with PG&E was, again, as I said earlier, they were holding like these town hall meetings and they were telling everybody— and again, talk about unfair— they were telling everybody that it was chromium in their water, which is a natural element and it's good for you. You can find it in your breakfast cereal.

Wow.

They weren't telling him that it was hexavalent chromium and it was a poison.

Damn.

And so as all this data started getting put together and I put together what I call a hot doc book. So as a dyslexic, I'm here and I don't take numbers in the environment. Like 5 ppm and calculate forward. I always calculate backwards and I needed to go find those higher numbers in time to prove what they had been exposed to over 20, 30 years. Wow. So as I started getting into my record searches, I create these hot dog books, which is like almost a trial notebook, which I'm just doing instinctually because I'm just trying to put the pieces together myself.

That makes sense to you.

Yes.

Wow.

Yes.

And what— by doing that, you're putting together a great case. Yeah.

Unbeknownst to me.

Got it.

And, you know, I was just out there every day of my life. I was like, nah, this doesn't make sense to me. And this was a huge cover-up. And this is where I've said, you know, people would have dealt with the truth. Hey, we need to get you out of here. We're poisoning you. But it was the lie that becomes so insidious that you just drag them through that. But once Ed realized this was a lawsuit, he had to go hire a couple more attorneys because he was about broke, borrowing money against his house to keep things going.

Wow.

So he started to believe in it that much?

That much.

Wow.

Yeah. And so he found two other law firms. That was Ingstrom, Lipscomb and Lack was the head attorneys there. And We had a lawsuit and we had 634 plaintiffs and it was filed as a direct action, not a class action, because in a direct action, everybody's damages were different. Some people were closer to the PG&E facility where they had higher readings in their wells. Some were further away where we couldn't prove that the plume had gone through yet. So we filed a direct action.

And just to go back real quick, the hexa—

Hexavalent.

Hexavalent chromium. What was it in there? It was in there to prevent rust from the pipes from rusting?

It's an anti-rust inhibitor. Got it, understood, okay. So it was a gas compressor facility. So actually there was other cases that I went and backtracked and found later, but from Topock, California, they're pushing and pulling natural gas out of Texas Understood. And then it would go from Topock, California to Barstow. And then in Barstow, it would get pushed and pulled up to Kettleman. And so the— think of it like the engine of your car. And these facilities are big, huge piston engines pushing and pulling this gas through. And so they have to run water through the system so it doesn't cease to operate. Wow. And these chemicals have— like, chromium-6 is an anti-rust inhibitor because if you don't have it, rust will corrode the pipes, right? And then they would take all the used water through the system and dump it into unlined ponds.

So it goes right back into the soil, right back into the aquifer, right back into where— in the what?

Aquifer, the water zone.

Yeah. And, uh, and now I see how this— the data centers came on your radar because that's sort of the same thing. They're using this— they— there's a similar thing that kind of happens is they use so much water to cool off what's going on. So I just— I now I kind of correlate like, okay, this makes perfect sense why her involvement.

There's a whole lot of things about data centers, and I know we'll get there. I'll stay on your pace. That set me off, and that, that was one of them.

Yeah, and we will. We're almost— we're almost to data centers. Um, but what, what was, what was one of the toughest parts about going after a company that big? Like, did you start to get scared? Did you personally get scared? Was there times you were laying in bed at night and be they— somebody might try to take you out. Like, how heavy did it get, really?

People brought that up, and I, I didn't kind of go there until one day I was stealing toxic hazardous waste offsite.

You were stealing it?

Yeah.

Oh, you were pulling up somewhere that had it?

Oh, I'm a bad guy. I'm stealing the toxic hazardous waste.

Okay.

To just— I was—

to have evidence.

Yes.

Got it.

Okay, so I'm sorry I stole your two-headed frog and a bunch of green fucking soil.

Sue me.

So PG&E called the cops and I was gonna get arrested. I'm standing with my two-headed frog in my little file, you know, my little— what do you call it—

igloo.

Because I knew to keep things cool, I had my chain of custody writing everything down.

You really had one in an igloo?

Yeah.

Wow.

So I'm like, you're arresting me? I said, can I at least call my attorney? So I called Ed and Ed goes, wait a minute, you're going to arrest her for what? And they're telling him. He goes, you know what? Let him do it. And I'm going, what the fuck?

Then it's on file.

What the fuck, Ed? Anyway, he said, you do it. You do it because it's going to be headline news that I want you to arrest this girl for what? Stealing two-headed frogs from a polluted site? Do it. And they let me go. And I call Ed and I'm like, were you really going to have me arrested? He goes, oh, hell yeah. I would have had you out in 5 minutes. So, kiddo, don't worry about it. Wow.

God, what a journey. So. And how did he work afterwards with the plaintiffs? So the plaintiffs there was over $330 million awarded and that was divided up between the different families at certain amounts, etc.?

Yeah. So done as a direct action. So people who live way out from a plume boundary received awards for fear of cancer versus the people that lived there 35 years right next to the facility that were exposed to high levels that had cancer.

Wow.

And so the judges made all those rulings based on the facts surrounding their particular case.

Oh, wow. That's pretty amazing. What a journey, huh? Did you know at the time that it was going to become such a big thing? You had no idea?

No.

Wow.

None. It was just one of those moments for me that this just— it just didn't make sense to me, and it just wasn't right. And I felt bad for the people. And listen, they became my family. I mean, half of the group up there helped potty train my youngest daughter, Elizabeth. Oh, and I loved them. And it just didn't make sense.

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Um, well, you know, and Roberta faced that, and I, I will share with you, in every environmental case that I work with, it generally is a mom that knows something's up but isn't sure what's up. But what frustrates these mothers is when they do show up, whether it be somebody at the state or a politician or a leader that they need information from, or city council, they're suppressed. They get the, "Oh, you're a hysterical mother. There's nothing really going on." And so they retreat and they feel defeated. So that suppression is something that happens at the very beginning. And then, then when that mom gets another mom, then they're like, I don't— try to suppress me because I know something's wrong. And again, we're going to go back to I don't have to have— I don't have to have the degree or be qualified to sit on your city council board. And I'm an idiot that they come back in armed with information.

Let's go.

And so that's generally what I do. They're usually right. But I can go find stuff that I can arm them with. Here's what you need. Here's what's going on. This is what's a fact. And then they join forces with the other mothers and they become unbelievably formidable.

Do you believe that mothers still have as much power now as they did, like, at the time, like, of when this story started for you?

Yes. You know, I've seen it throughout— in Flint, Michigan, the whole lead crisis, even down the BP oil spill. I'm scared of some of those mothers. I'm like, "Ed, what do you say? You go in there and talk to her." I'm like, "No, that one scares me. You go in there and talk to her." Because they know and they don't want to hear it anymore.

You get a swamp mama down there that gets upset.

But I'm seeing them come back and I'm going to jump ahead and then I'll stop just so you'll have it in your memory too. They're the ones showing up on the data centers.

Well, one of the things that put you on my radar, I mean, obviously I knew of you, but what put you on my radar was you wrote an article. It was like, If data centers aren't so bad, why are they building them in secrecy?

I think— correct, everything begins with that secret, even Hinckley, California.

Amen. Well, what hit me about it— yeah, if data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret?

That was in Substack, the Brokovich report.

And you talked about the biggest one, which is built in Louisiana, uh, in the flatlands. It says right here, in the flatlands of northeast Louisiana, known for soybean fields. And dense clusters of river cane. Meta is building a 4 million square foot AI campus called Hyperion. When finished, it will consume more electricity than the entire city of New Orleans and cover a footprint the size of Lower Manhattan. Uh, and then it says here, Meta's investment establishes the region as an anchor in Louisiana's rapidly expanding tech sector, revitalizes one of our state's beautiful rural areas, and creates opportunities for Louisiana workers to fill high-paying jobs of the future. Said Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry in a press statement. I thank Meta for their commitment to our state. And what shocked me here, though, was a resident of Holly Ridge, an unincorporated community in Richland Parish, said she found out about the data center the way everyone else in her community did when they started digging.

Correct.

And I was like, oh, she says nobody told us anything.

Correct.

They supposedly had a big meeting. The whole community was supposed to come. Nobody knew anything about it ever. Correct. But how did data centers come onto your radar?

So I woke up one morning and I had 30 emails, 30 individual emails from the same community regarding the same issues— data centers.

Wow.

So having done this for 30 years now, anytime I get a cluster of emails, that's a sign. And then I was like, data centers. It was almost a moment like in Hinckley, California. Hexavalent chromium. What is that? Data centers. What's going on with data centers? That I started looking into it and things— I don't know, my questions weren't being answered about data centers. So what I do is I like to see the big picture and I like to create maps. So I created what's called brokovichdatacenter.com. Where people, if they were having issues with data centers in their backyard, could self-report. And I've created self-reporting registry databases before. Think about it. We have no place where we can self-report. Everything that we report goes through an agency.

Wow.

Even in Hinckley, California. And it got stuck up in the California Health Department. Of course, nobody ever knew.

And so many agencies are compromised anyway now. So why not create our own? This is amazing.

And there's This is a place where people who I believe that are living, breathing, and experiencing these issues are the best source of information. So what I thought when I put this map out here in the first 72 hours, the map crashed twice.

Wow.

And I woke up on day 3 going, oh my God, it's not one town. And one aquifer and one data center. It's the entire country.

Wow.

We've talked about Louisiana from the Midwest.

Mm-hmm.

Now the next thing that I noticed, 'cause each one of these people in their submission, it wasn't this one town reporting the same thing. It's the whole country. They had no idea. They had no idea. They woke up to this construction. We weren't informed. City council didn't tell us. Anything. We're completely in the dark because these big tech groups came in and put these city council members, uh, members under a non-disclosure.

Oh, is that what you're—

Correct. In every state, in every state, every city, every town reporting to me, we knew nothing. Non-disclosure agreements.

I just saw a video the other day. See if you can find that, Trevin. It's a woman, uh, at a city council meeting from— oh, here, I see it. So it says right here, a resident of Tyrone Township, Michigan, confronted local officials with a simple question: have you signed an NDA with any private party regarding developments that could affect the township? Yeah, this was the clip that I saw. Uh, can we play it?

Have you personally signed any NDA, any agreement, or had any private communication such as meetings, phone calls, text interactions, phone calls, text messages, or emails with any developer, company, landowner, or representative regarding any current or potential project that could affect Tyrone Township? Chris Robetta?

No.

Dean?

No.

Jennifer?

I'm not answering your question. This is not the time or place.

I can ask you whatever I want. Don't tell me what I can say.

We don't have to answer you.

But you're communicating with me, Jennifer. I didn't think you were supposed to do that. Great Carnes, how about you, yes or no? Not the place. We've already discussed this. So who, who's already discussed it? I'm sorry, who's already discussed it? It's been discussed. Who has? Who's discussed it? I've not discussed this with you. What are you saying? Uh, Pam Offler, yes or no?

Wow, Pam letting me down.

You work for us. That's right.

Herman Ferguson.

Oh, you Herman boy won't answer.

Zach Tucker.

Mike, stop.

You say guilty one more time, you're out.

Wow.

I'm not tolerating.

And I love that.

This is what I love. This woman, this mother, this— listen, I just become their biggest cheerleader. You know, this is not My story. Hinckley wasn't my story. It was their story. This is their story. And it becomes all of our stories. And I love watching moments like that.

Yeah.

Oh, no, I think this is great. I like vigilante stuff. I like somebody who's just like in that moment where it's uncomfortable. You still speak. You speak through that uncomfort, that nervousness, you know, like whatever it is, like you're trying to speak to power and say, well, this is what this feels like from here. How are these big companies able to, uh, compromise? Um, and I'm not sure that these people are compromised. We don't know, right? But it's interesting what, uh, the conversation she's establishing here. It's interesting some of their answers for sure. Uh, but how are some of these tech companies or any companies able to compromise some of these, um, like smaller area council members, etc., do you think?

So these small rural council members, you know, they don't have a lot of funding. And these big companies are coming in, and they're talking $10 billion. And these council members are very lured by that because, you know, they want to have infrastructure and things like that in their own backyard. And they were kind of misled, but to sign a nondisclosure agreement probably didn't seem like a big deal to them for a big exchange to the city council and to the community to make all this money to build this center. And then they're lured into thinking it's going to create jobs and long-term economic gain when that's actually not what's happening. But that's the hook.

Do you think a lot of them are actually— so do you think a lot of the council people actually lied to as well?

Like it's a Well, apparently they aren't asking a whole lot of questions about data centers and they're just more lured by the money. And that's the thing that really fascinated me with the self-reporting map, because unbeknownst to all these other communities in different states across the country, they're reporting the exact same thing. I'm baffled. You're talking all of our city councils— it's tough because I tell people, go local. Yeah. And this is a situation in building data centers. You've got to go local because you need the permitting and the zoning. And they're, they're lured into this. But that every city council across the United States of America, was that lured by money? Because these facilities are going in every state, multiple counties and cities across the entire country.

So that was a lot of the reporting you were getting, the self-reporting from people. Where's that?

First thing that made a map.

That we didn't know it. Nobody knew.

Didn't know.

But how are these companies able to do without people knowing? Like, because isn't there like— aren't there laws where you have to like— you have to say, okay, this is something that's being planned in our city or in our town, and then people are allowed to come? Or did you notice some sort of pattern where they're able to, uh, manipulate that?

A lot of people are reporting that they thought they were building a warehouse. And so construction begins and they thought it was a warehouse or we're here putting in a solar farm or some other reason. Hey, we're going to build this out because it's great economic base for our community. But as it starts to go from nondisclosure, so we start at proposal like that woman, she was in proposal phase and she was pushing back then, but they wouldn't answer her, probably because they'd already signed the nondisclosure. And they were getting ready to go into the next phase, construction phase. And it's during a construction phase that people are like, whoa, wait a minute, you're destroying the land, you're cutting down all the trees.

That's when people notice it. Yeah, right.

They're like, what's happening?

Agreed. I mean, I think that's what the same thing that's happened here even locally in Nashville. It's like, that's when it started to like, like it wasn't in the beginning phase where people even knew what was going on. It's almost like in the too late phase. Um, that's what I'm noticing. Yeah, let me look at this. Spartanburg County data center lawsuit. Residents say $2.8 billion project was wrong— there you go— was wrongly classified as minor development. Um, a group of residents, uh, suing Spartanburg County and Valara Holdings LLC, the company behind a nearly $3 billion data center under construction along South Pine Street. Uh, public records show Valara submitted an application to redevelop about 950 5,000 square feet of the former Kohler industrial plant as a minor land development. The county approved it. Weeks later, the company submitted a second application for Phase 2 improvements, including 4 proposed buildings totaling about 494,000 square feet, along with a power yard, internal roadways, electrical equipment, a metering station, mechanical cooling systems, and stormwater ponds. The application also was approved as a minor land development. The— an attorney said, uh, they also broke it into two parts. First, they did a smaller application, which was still a big development, and called that minor.

So they're saying that they classified it as minor, and obviously that doesn't sound very minor.

No. And this is— this is happening everywhere. First of all, I love how you pull stuff up like that. You and me could work on this shit together. I'm just saying, we could be trouble.

Really? What would I do? Do I have to go to court? I can be Atticus Finch. I'll be his son. You, you'll do the Ricky Finch.

You'll steal the two-headed frogs with me.

I'll put them in that, in that—

we'll get this all put in an order that everyone understands. That'd be great.

I'll put one of them in that frog jumping, uh, contest that's over there in Louisiana. What, what parish is that in over there? Rain over there. The Rain Frog Festival. Now that two-headed frog, he's a little top heavy.

Yeah, he is a little top heavy.

Might You cannot win. But going back, you know, it's so great to, you kind of to understand what is the future, you got to go back in time. So to understand these things, you're going right back in time. That's very dyslexic.

Yeah. Oh, it's dyslexic thinking. Yeah, that's what we're doing here.

But to your point about the NDAs, they're like using shell companies. The city council's rezoning, doing different permits for minor changes or a warehouse that they're just expanding on.

Yeah.

So they're telling you the truth, but not the full truth.

How do we force these companies to be more transparent? Like, what is there? What can we do?

Well, that's, that's a very big question because they have all the money in the world. And for smaller communities and city council, um, I don't know, maybe they're gullible, but it's pretty hard to turn it down. And I think the big companies, I think the responsibility is on them. By way of example, Microsoft has just now announced they're removing all the NDAs. They now realize this was a bad way to approach it, but that is incumbent upon them. They know damn good and well what they're doing, but their They're the ones that are not transparent.

You're talking about the NDAs regarding the data sets?

I'm talking about the big companies. They're the ones that are not being transparent. And then they, they mislead possibly all these council members.

Understood. Yeah.

And the council members at some point know their tits in a ringer because they had a not NDA. So now their constituents are like, did you not— did you sign an NDA? Well, I signed an NDA. I'm not going to tell you. I signed an NDA.

Right.

Now they realize they're in a little quagmire and maybe now they realize they're being lied to. But it's amazing that these big companies— you're talking the biggest companies in the world.

For sure. I mean, we're talking Microsoft right here.

I mean, invaded like the entire United States and all of our city councils.

Well, it's all so organized at such deeper, darker—

Absolutely.

At deeper, darker levels. I want to go on two things real quick. For one, And this is just something I thought of. It's funny, if you signed an NDA, if somebody asks you, you can't— it's like you kind of— all you can do is kind of like, you're like, "Mm, duh, uh." You can kind of only make the letters NDA. Like, you can kind of make those sounds like, "Mm, duh, uh." There you go. So anyway, I just thought that was interesting. Yeah. Mm, duh, uh.

There you go.

Anyway.

We can make a song out of that for NDAs.

Sorry, and that was just ridiculous, I think. But it says right here, in January, Microsoft announced our community-first AI infrastructure plan outlining our commitments to the communities where we operate or are seeking to operate data centers. As part of that announcement, we called for greater degree of local transparency. Today we're sharing that Microsoft has made the decision to end the use of non-disclosure agreements everywhere with local governments as the next step in our work to deliver that transparency. We're committed sharing information about our data center plans as openly as possible as we continue to build trust with the communities around the world in which we operate. But do you think that they did this after they already had everything done that they wanted, or do you think that they realized, oh, this is backfiring, and so we have to backtrack and do it like this?

I think they tried to get away with it, just like—

does that question make sense? Okay, okay.

So they don't learn. Sometimes they don't learn transparency, you know, just fuckin' say it on the upfront. And this is what I've learned. People will handle that truth. They won't handle the lie. So I think Microsoft realized what they were not expecting and what nobody, in my opinion, was expecting was the backlash from the people.

Amen.

And I don't know where that glitch was, but they're like, uh, I don't think so. So that's where they came back in. And you better correct that before you find yourself in some huge litigation.

Amen.

And these litigations, and when you're talking about something like this and like even in California, you know, we've gone from the water to the fires. They're not selling for $333 million. They're selling for $38 billion. So Microsoft, I think, tried to, tried to get those NDAs through and then did not expect the backlash from the people.

Amen.

So we the people once again changed the course of direction.

Yeah.

Amen. Um, I want to go back to— can you bring up her, uh, Substack again? And thank you for your time today.

Thanks for having me. It's— and thanks for, you know, this is great. You've got so many followers, and it's something that they can learn too, and it's probably happening in their own backyard, and that you're taking the time to walk through this. I love it. Thank you.

Um, well, you're welcome, you're welcome. Um, oh, uh, one of the, the things here that in this article it says— this was, uh, Governor, uh, Jeff Landry, and shout out Louisiana, that's my home state, I love it. Um, and it says Meta's investment establishes the region as an anchor in Louisiana's rapidly expanding tech sector, revitalizes one of our state's beautiful rural areas, and creates opportunities for Louisiana workers to fill high-paying jobs of the future. Do you know what jobs are actually created by data centers? Because I've heard a lot of, like, mixed results on that. And Trevin, if you can look up anything as well. But Erin, what do you know about that?

Construction jobs, electricians, plumbers, construction jobs. And they're lured into, you know, the economy hasn't been the best. I think people are concerned about having jobs in the future. You know, we have the whole AI conversation that they're saying there's going to eliminate all the jobs. So these are opportunities for, you know, our industrial workers, plumbers and electricians and masoneries and all of those construction jobs are available. And it's a good, you know, 1 to possibly 2-year job. But what they're learning is That's all it is.

Yeah. But yeah, that— yeah. As you're saying that, it reminds me of Dr. Frankenstein. It's like to be building the thing that's going to hypothetically take you over, you know what I'm saying? To be building the— like to sit there and hammer each day building a data center that you think may poison your kids or that may damage the air or, you know, like, or that could be the thing that takes your job. That's—

yeah.

I mean, it's almost— it's like, it's like being trapped in a sci-fi movie.

It is. And then once that process starts and now you're taking all the trees and all the wildlife and everything away from us. You're talking— they needed a job, but it's not going to be a long-term gain for the community, especially if you are a community, even like down in Louisiana, that relies on tourism to get down in the bayous and in the waters and to hunt and recreation. When you fucking destroyed it all? Where's your economic base now?

Well, it's not the people's fault, though. No, the people— like, if a man is— I'd have to work to survive, to take care of my kids.

And they're supposedly good-paying jobs and they're long-term jobs. And so that's the socioeconomic thing that hooks them.

But they're long-term until it's built. Let me see this.

And then there's no more jobs.

Data centers are essentially giant collections of computer servers They typically take up massive spaces and use huge amounts of power and water, but they employ very few people. Meta's newest data center will ultimately create just 500 permanent jobs, though employment will briefly swell to about 5,000 during construction. Nonetheless, Meta found itself with no shortage of suitors willing to meet its demands. We set out looking for a place where we could expand into gigawatts pretty quickly and really get moving within that community on a large plot of land very quickly. Said Rachel Peterson, Vice President of Data Centers for Meta. We looked at finding very, very large contiguous plots of land that had access to the infrastructure that we need, the energy that we need, and can move very, very quickly for us. And I'll tell you what else it had access to. I know, being from Louisiana, water.

Water.

Because that's a wet state, baby. You know what I'm saying, bro? You don't even— bruh, don't even— I wouldn't even dry off in Louisiana, bro, because You don't. Yeah, because you ain't gonna work. And dude, the crazy part is there's gonna be data and everything now. Now you out there fishing, you catching a flounder or whatever, and they finding, uh, gigabytes in its, uh, lungs or whatever. You know, you just don't know. And it's affecting nature, it's affecting the animals, bro.

All of those resources will be destroyed to build the data centers.

I know.

And so, you know, this came in fast, furious, overnight. And we are watching real time the rise of the people. And I don't think they expected that.

And you do believe that?

Yep. I'm watching it happen everywhere.

You are?

Yeah. And they're making change. We now have—

Where are you seeing this happen? Because I love hearing this and it gives me hope because it feels like we're not standing a chance sometimes.

Well, we've shown up in force and it's not one state, it's all states. We're showing up in a completely bipartisan issue. There's no division here. This is right and left, red and blue. You're taking every resource that every single one of us thrives on and is essential to every one of us. And I don't think they were expecting that. Maybe in one town, one community, not all towns, not all towns. And, you know, we are now, I believe, and you can look this up, we've got 14 states now looking at bans, moratoriums, or pauses. Blackstone, I believe you can look that up, just withdrew their big appellate court lawsuit because of the opposition. They said, we're out. Hallelujah. The people showed up. And they're out. And now we're looking at over 120 municipalities that have put on, hey, pause, moratorium, or flat out get out.

Let's go, Aaron. Aaron, go, bro!

You can find out all day long over there on your computer.

Uh, with no U.S. state—

that's power, people—

while no U.S. state has an active permanent statewide ban on data centers, lawmakers in at least 15 states states are actively considering or advancing temporary moratoriums. These pauses allow states to study the impact of facilities on power grids and water supplies.

And then it is the cities, like in California, Monterey— Monterey Park City banned them.

Amen.

Cities are banning them. So you got the 14, 15 states, but inside those states, state by state, county by county, ban, pause, moratorium. And you've got over 120 municipalities now under pauses, moratoriums, or bans.

Let's check this right here. State-level legislative activity. Several states are actively debating or have introduced statewide moratorium legislation. A list of those, uh, Maine lawmakers passed a temporary construction moratorium, uh, but it was vetoed by Governor Janet Mills. I just met Janet Mills last week. At the Billie Strings concert. What does that mean? It was vetoed?

She said no, she's going to let the data centers come in, but communities are pushing back. So on my map, we're showing legislative issues that have failed or paused or on hold in the map.

Bring that up. Sorry to interrupt you. Bring that up real quick. I just want to give— let me see. Yeah. Maine Governor Janet Mills vetoed LD 307, a bill that would have instituted the nation's first statewide moratorium on certain large-scale data center developments. While agreeing that a pause was generally appropriate due to energy and environmental concerns, she vetoed the legislation because it failed to carve out an exemption for a $550 million redevelopment project at the former Androscoggin Mill in Jay, Maine. Um, it says right here, the Jay, Maine exception— Mills favored allowing the data center at the shuttered paper mill in Jay to proceed, citing the potential to create 800 construction jobs, at least 100 permanent high-paying positions, and substantial property tax revenue for the town.

Hmm. Yeah, no, she was originally supposed to ban the data centers by the state, but she came back in and said she wasn't going to do that. But that's when she made a change, because a lot of them, the state's given them all these tax incentives. She took that away.

Yeah, and it says here, uh, Governor Janet Mills supports regulatory oversight for large-scale data centers but firmly opposes blanket development bans that could harm local economic revitalization. Uh, while she acknowledges the valid environmental and grid concerns associated with massive tech facilities, her approach prioritizes a balanced framework over a statewide moratorium. I see. So she's just trying to think of it more of as a case-by-case basis, I guess.

So most states are now wanting to know, whoa, wait a minute, How much water are you going to use?

Right.

What does this entail? What does it mean for the safety in the future of our environment? So you are seeing the pauses, moratoriums for 1 and 2 years. And some communities like in Texas, they just— the local county flat out banned them. You're not building one in our county. So in every state you've got multiple cities and counties and they have their own ordinances and rules so they can stop them.

I see.

So it can be— but the state may not.

So it can be stopped at different levels.

Yes.

And you're seeing many counties like Monterey Park is a city within California. So think of it as your upper level state going down to cities, going down to local councils and counties. They run in— they have like a tier.

Got it. Yeah.

So the local can say, fuck you.

But we're also—

the state might not take that position.

Right. But we also saw, I mean, from the beginning of this conversation, we saw that local was a spot where people were getting compromised a lot also. So, yeah, but there's different levels where you can have pushback.

Oh, yeah. And they showed up at the local level and the opposition was significant. So in Utah, in Box Elder County, that's been on the news a lot. Mm-hmm. It was Kevin O'Leary was coming in with a ginormous data center.. And the people showed up in protest big time.

Oh, I saw that.

And the 3 Box Elder County guys let it come through anyway. So the governor came back in because of the opposition from the people and reduced Kevin O'Leary's facility. And the exact numbers, I don't quote me on this, but almost cut it in half, if not 3/4. And because of the opposition, he had to do something. And then just recently, their House speaker, the senator—

Fox—

lost because of the whole opposition to these data centers. And all 3 council members no longer out. So let's go. It's really interesting. And like Festus, Missouri. You voted them in, vote them out. They voted all their council out. So this is like, I think, something politicians should really be looking at. The opposition is strong enough. And again, in my entire career, in 30 years, I've never seen something bipartisan this united that everybody better be paying attention to because I think people— you are pushing people too far at this point. You're taking their water. Their air is jeopardized, their land is jeopardized, their farmland is jeopardized, their sanctuary is jeopardized, their wildlife is jeopardized, the trees, the rivers, the creeks, the birds, all of it. It's a stake too high, including their health.

Yeah.

And they're just showing up and it's enough. And I think some, some of our leaders should look at that. You know, they are gonna vote people out. And you're— you've put the squeeze on us. It's too much. You're taking all of the natural resources. And the next thing that people are reporting, their electric bills. Who's paying for this? They are.

Well, let's go into some of that. Are you— what information are you seeing about that? And Kevin, while we discuss this, can you look up, um, who voted to approve that, uh, that data center in Louisiana? I want to know who— Who was it?

It's going to be a local council.

Okay. A local council. I just want to know the names of the people that voted yes on it.

Got it. So we are definitely seeing local opposition winning, local municipalities, counties.

Really? Like an example?

Well, one of the— a big one is the Prince William Digital Gateway data center project. Huge, by the way. And that was Blackstone. And it was in the appellate courts. They've withdrawn.

Okay.

And the project is now dead because of the opposition of the people.

Wow. The Court of Appeals— it says right here, Prince William Digital Gateway Data Center project officially dies. The Court of Appeals affirmed on, um, uh, an August 2025 decision, um, by William Circuit Court Judge Kimberly in favor of the Oak Valley Homeowners Association, 11 other Gainesville landowners Uh, okay. After a legal battle that lasted more than 2 years, the controversial Prince William Digital Gateway, a proposed 23 million square foot data center complex planned on 2,100 acres near Manassas National Battlefield Park, is officially dead. That's incredible. Well, I— you know what, that's the thing that gets the power of people. Yeah, I mean, it is the power of the people, Aaron. Well, that's what gets you about Louisiana. It's like our state is, uh, it's all— our state is all about nature. It's all about being able to fish out there and water and water, water, water. So that's what they're there for.

Absolutely.

So that's why the largest one in America, they want to do it there in Louisiana. Yeah, can you pull up who voted for and against it? Um, okay, we have right here, uh, they had Eric Schermetta. This is for Jean-Paul JP Coussin out of District 2. Yeah, and then we got Mike Francis. Yeah, they might raise Foster Campbell for sure, District 5. And then who they voted for it and who voted against it? Devonte Lewis. That's wild, bro. Uh, yeah, just curious, man, just curious.

Um, so I think what's happening— hey, this, this has happened so fast. It was just like— everybody will tell you, it felt like an invasion. It's just stealth bombers coming in in the middle of the night.

That's energy Yeah, the data centers. I agree.

And they were just here. And I think even council members were quickly wooed, non-DAs, and are now again stepping back and going, wait a second.

That's a good point.

I need more information here. But at the onset, I think the thing that's so frustrating for the people or why I don't understand you as city council members or any legislative body or office, why do you not listen to your constituents?

Yeah.

What sign is it that you're missing? It's not one showing up. It's 100. It's 1,000. And disregarding your constituents' opinions.

Well, it's so funny you say that. I think it's interesting. People get into positions of, like, power and, like, elected positions, right? And they start listening uphill like, oh, this is where the better information's coming from because this is how I get invited to like a dinner party. Or, you know, maybe you get invited to eat a special box of croissants or something somewhere. Somebody cuts you off a beautiful sausage you never had or something. And that's— your ear starts to turn like, oh, well, this is where the true information comes from.

No, the true information always comes from the ground and the people up.

From the roots, baby. That's where the roots at. Hey, the roots. That's why they grow that way.

That's where it comes from, out the mud.

But I think it's interesting that you say I didn't like— of course, Louisiana, because of the water.

Water, water, water.

That's it. What would— let's get to some clarity on the water issue and on nature. What truth do we know and what information is out there about how data centers actually use water? And what effects that they have on nature? Like, do we have— what information do we really have?

Well, it's the amount of water that it takes to cool the data center. So if it's a smaller data center, it could be 5 million gallons of water a day.

Little baby center, bro.

Right. But if it's a big data center, you could be talking 30 million gallons of water. Millions and millions of gallons of water. The gallons a day that they have to use a day, a day to cool.

Yeah. Let's see this. A typical medium-sized data center consumes about 100 million gallons of water annually. That's medium-sized, uh, roughly 300,000 to 500,000 gallons per day. However, large hyperscale campuses can guzzle up to 5 million gallons per day. So that's off.

And there's some 30 million gallons in there. Um, 5, you can find those around. You can, you can even just Google that.

There's some that I believe it was in Georgia.

30 million gallons of water was missing from one of them.

Well, people probably come and get you a little bit of that Georgia water, get you a swig of it. It's probably 30-proof. A massive Quality Technology Services QTS data center in Fayetteville, Georgia drained nearly 30 million gallons of water without paying or alerting the county. But I don't know if it was a day, but still, it's a lot. That's a lot.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

And no, there are, there are some out there, and we can, we can look them up, but if you have all these deaths.

What's the process of the use of water? Because, I mean, they use it, but can you then, like, can you purify the water or like, is there like a process that you can then use it again?

Like, well, so they just had, if you want to pull up Cheyenne, Wyoming. So there's open cooling and there's closed cooling and they want to go to more closed cooling systems where the water has to pass. Again, that reminds me a little bit of the Hinckley situation because you've got a closed loop system you're going to need chemicals in there to prevent rust and corrosion. And I believe it just happened in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where they were draining that system and the— there was some construction error, but it contaminated the entire, um, sewer system. So is Cheyenne, Wyoming—

Cheyenne's Board of Public Utilities has temporarily stopped accepting wastewater from data centers' fill and flush operations. And closed-loop cooling systems after a Meta-linked construction discharge contaminated the city's reclaimed irrigation water with a rare bacterium. That's the same company that's doing it in Louisiana, right?

Mm-hmm. And we're seeing a lot of— because the water is warmer, they have to be heated. You're seeing different chemicals that they're using in the closed system. It could be hexavalent chromium, it could be PFAS, that water could be full of—

Oh yeah, for sure.

Other diseases.

Well, now, yeah, the water's bad. You know, anything, you know, the kids out there, you never even know. He's sipping bad water. They got chromium in the water.

And you can have accidents like this that you're reading about that just happened in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

I mean, this is unbelievable. Meta's Cheyenne facility is designed to use a closed-loop liquid cooling system, meaning the same coolant water is recirculated within the data center. Rather than continuously discharged. During construction, however, contractors performed fill and flush procedures to clean and pressure test the cooling pipes, and that one time wastewater was sent to the city's reclamation system where the bacterium was detected. And what's the bacteria? Let me see, it's at the top. What's it called?

Is it Legionnaire?

No, it was Cupriavidus gallardii. So he's— I mean, he's a 4-star recruit, I'm guessing, you know. I'm gonna say that out there. I'm surprised, bro. Give him an hour, Lane Kiffin will be over there recruiting him. You know that, dude.

These waterborne bacterias are very dangerous. Matter of fact, we're watching the whole explosive diarrhea map that's happening right now, and they believe it's a waterborne bacteria.

Is there?

It's definitely going. We can look that one up too.

Where's the bad diarrhea at?

It's cross-country. Didn't you see the big diarrhea map?

I didn't see it.

Created the big diarrhea map.

But just the fact that this is where we're at, like, we've been lulled into idiocracy. The fact that this is where we're at, there's a big diarrhea map now because there it is. Yeah, because of how dangerous the water's gotten, that it's like, oh, like, that's going to be on the news now. Like, from now the news is changing. It's gonna be like, be careful, you know, if you're drinking water in this area, you're going to get big diarrhea, or the baby's going to get a little bit of data in his bottle, whatever, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can't even keep, you know, your kids running outside and a strong breeze hits them that's coming off the top of the data center. Now he's got a bunch of analytics stuck in his neck or whatever, you know what I'm saying? You can't keep the dad out of the baby diaper, bro. It just— everything's going to get weird. While Michigan— right here it says, this is from The Hill, uh, while Michigan has seen the most cases as of late, at least 4 more states have recorded more than 100 cases of explosive diarrhea-causing parasitic illness have been reported.

Of course, you know, you got a— hey, you got a 40% of bad, uh, bad shit over there outside of Charlotte. Boy, you're— the Center for Disease Control and Prevention said that between the start of May and mid-June, at least 145 cases of cyclosporiasis had been reported in the U.S. Cases of the parasite-based sickness are common each year from May through August, but some states are seeing larger than average spikes in cases.

Waterborne diseases and illnesses we could start seeing a whole lot of in the future, especially as, you know, whether you believe in climate change or not, I've always believed it's going to be water issues— too much, too little, none at all. We're seeing that happening now, even with flooding. And you flood municipalities, they can't get back online. You can have bacteria, parasites, everything get in there. The biggest transporter of everything on this planet is water.

Well, we're almost—

we're like 90%.

We're 90% water, I think.

So we're really messing. Yeah.

Unless you're crying, it goes down a little.

Our most precious resource. And that is the one thing that data centers utilize the most.

Yeah.

And again, you know, AI is here to stay. But the data centers, especially when there's other solutions to it, they do not have to be built on top of drought-restricted areas who already are really struggling with water resources. And there's other locations we could be putting these in underground caverns. You know, some people say, why don't you have them in Antarctica? Because they need water and they need to be cool. There's many reports that China has built tubular things and put them at the bottom of the ocean, but they have oversight. You can't build them on top of hospitals. You can't build them on top of homes. The noise pollution, the size of these these things, they— 24/7 is noise. Generators, backup generators, a humming, a buzzing. It never ever stops. It is such a disruption to every one of us and our quality of life.

How do you know that?

People's reporting it and the videos, they're reporting it and it's being studied. It is real. These are massive facilities that are just going to suck every one of our resources and we don't even have an infrastructure system to support them.

Yeah.

And so we've got a lot of issues. There you go.

Living in Hell: Data Center Neighbors Grapple with Noise and Air Pollution. Uh, let me see. Because these data centers operate 24/7, they generate persistent background noise, and chronic exposure to environmental noise has been associated with sleep disturbance, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and even stress-related outcomes. Noise pollution can be especially harmful to children, as it has been linked to poor cognition decreased learning, and lower reading comprehension. Well, yeah, that's the thing, man. Your son's in the yard or whatever, and suddenly some data flies through, you know, he gets hit by some data or something, and he's got an episode of, you know, Friends or Seinfeld stuck in his back or whatever, and then he's in a wheelchair. Just like, you just don't know what's in the data either, you know what I'm saying? You could be going for a jog and you get hit by some damn data, some loose data.

Where you're gonna get hit by data noise.

Yeah, but I'm just saying, you gotta like Because data flies through the air. Like, that's the thing, people, it's like, I don't understand sometimes what's going on. This cloud has sound: the unrelenting and unseen cost of AI data centers. Um, what are they saying right here? And, and this is, uh, New York Times, which is, you know, suspect, uh, but so, so many places are. Instead of audibly hearing these extremely low frequencies, people physically feel them as pressure fluctuations. Much like the deep vibration of a bass drum shaking your core at a concert. It's deep, said Scott Hamilton. Dang, they said these things can give you a damn BJ or whatever, and you just trying to chill out or whatever. You getting that data beej. A member of the Acoustical Society of America and a consultant on data center projects said that, um, this can leave the traditional gauges of noise and solutions for dampening it inadequate to meet modern needs. Some residents living near infrasound frequently report chronic sleep deprivation and insomnia, headaches and internal ear pressure, and anxiety. What I— at this point, I just like— so if this is— this stuff's so bad for us, what do you think is leading— like, there's a lot of conspiracy theories as to why we're even doing this because it's very sudden, this data, right?

Like you said, it's like suddenly it's the biggest thing.

Stealth bomber in the night, right? Where'd that come from?

And it's already halfway down the road, right? Um, why, why do you— what do you think is going on? And then what do you think are some rabbit hole ideas of maybe what's going on out there, like some conspiracy ideas that are probably right?

You know, so I don't know why. I'm left to my own conspiracy theories. Uh, you know, I try to focus on what people are reporting to me, and I can clearly see why We're all so upset because this AI, you have to feed the beast, requires all of our resources. And I just think it's a stake too high when there's other solutions. We don't have to be building these massive monstrosities in everyone's backyard, taking all of our precious resources when there's other solutions.

What are the other solutions?

Well, you know, there's been many articles that have come out in China. Where they built like these tubular housing and they put all their data centers in it and they've got them at the bottom of the ocean. Data centers need water and they need to be cool. They also have some very strict guidelines and, you know, oversight where you can build them and where you can't. As a matter of fact, why can I share something with you?

For sure.

You can find this really interesting. Yeah.

Let me read this while you're looking for that. Um, let me see this right here. China operates commercial underwater data centers, UDCs, to support AI workloads and cloud computing while drastically cutting energy, water, and land usage. The largest project sits off the coast of the Shanghai, uh, special area, utilizing natural seawater cooling and offshore wind to achieve an ultra-efficient power usage effectiveness. Um, can you get an image of that? Wow. I mean, that also seems dangerous being in their ocean like that, but it's— it seems way safer than putting them in.

There's definitely going to be questions about things like that.

Um, but it's not in someone's backyard.

We also, um, you know, we have a lot of caverns and caves.

Oh, there's tons of things we can do, right? Why aren't we doing those, do you think? Is it just because the people that are paying for it don't want to have to make it harder to get there?

Well, exactly, because, you know, there's this corporate idea that, you know, it's cheaper to do the wrong thing and still get money down to a shareholder because it's more expensive to do the right thing. So it may be way more costly to build these underground or build systems that are at the bottom of the ocean if we conclude that that is safe, as opposed to just coming in above ground and ripping out all the environment and building what you want.

What do you— yeah, agreed. What do you think are some of the rabbit holes? What do you think? What do you think's going on here? Because it's very bizarre. Like, we've always had data centers, right? Like, but why do we suddenly— why do we— why do we suddenly need so much? And why does it suddenly have to be everywhere and so close? What's going on?

I think about that too. What actually scares me, if I thought about it, and I don't even want to I don't dare say it, but I'm worried this is a water grab. You're coming in and buying all the land. Who's getting the water rights? Who owns the water? You know, my daddy always told me in my lifetime water would be a commodity traded more valuable than gold or oil. Are we there? And what is the real grab? I'm not sure, but that kind of comes into my mind.

Because it doesn't feel like data to me. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, we've all— like, we're already, like, consuming a lot of data, right? Like, we're already—

like, it's, it's to feed AI. Artificial intelligence requires excessive amount of energy.

Why don't they realize nobody wants that?

You know what's interesting, um, like, you know what I'm saying?

But here's what I'm saying as a business, and I'm going to go— I want to get right back to you, Aaron. But as a, as a somebody who runs a business, you want to do what your customers want, right? Why don't they realize, like, yes, I know we use AI to look up stuff, but But a lot of AI shit, to be honest with you, the search of it, a lot of AI shit. But a lot of it's not that effective, to be honest with you. And like, but people could still just use Google. Like, we were fine before. Like, is it enough of a jump that you have to build these huge facilities? I just don't think that that is— I don't believe that that's the truth.

Well, I think a lot of people don't.

And again, you know, and people don't want it though. I'm gonna make something if like, you see, say you start building an ice cream cone stand, right? But everybody in your district or whatever is lactose intolerant. And at a certain point you'd be like, you know what? This, we shouldn't be building this. But it feels like they're still going along with this thing even though nobody wants it.

Right. And I don't think whoever they are was expecting the opposition from, basically the whole country. And by the way, I have 11 countries reporting to me. So this has gone from a town to the United States to a global issue.

On your map, you mean?

Uh-huh.

India's reporting. Australia's reporting. Ireland, Scotland. You want to talk about getting some water up there in Scotland? There you go. Canada.

Put some fluoride in it, Scotland.

Everybody is concerned about the depletion of our water resources. And that is definitely something that I'm thinking about because who is going to be in control of water? And what are these data centers really for when you've already said it? Listen, AI has been around forever. These data centers have been around for decades. We've been operating fine with them. They're usually more in suburban areas. But now you've gone into these urban, sprawling farmland, massive water resources. What is going on? And so I did, just out of curiosity, you can use AI, don't use AI. I mean, I get on there, I'm going to share something with you that I got on there and I asked it. But you have to remember, it's a machine. Okay? So— That's what I'm saying. It's still a machine.

It's just a big, crazy Google. It's just more information.

But the data and the amount of water that needs to, to feed the beast.

I get it, but it's like we're already looking up a lot of stuff, right? We're already searching things and we're not needing these ins. And I know we already have some big data centers, but it doesn't feel like we need this much expansion. And the fact that people do not want it, right? Yes, we use it, but the second they turn it off, I don't think anybody's going to give a shit.

No, but they're going to give a shit if they have no water and their power goes on and off and they have have no jobs because of it, and all the wildlife is gone, and they can't hunt, and they can't fish, and they can't eat. We're fucked. Yeah, it's a road to nowhere.

But here's what I'm saying is, how crazy is it going to be when one of us is searching like, why don't I have any water? And we're doing it on an AI, like on a— you know what I'm saying? That's going to be hilarious. That's going to be one definitely.

So I just asked AI the following question. So you are AI, so you tell me where we should put all the data centers in the United States that you need. You want to hear this response?

Mm-hmm.

If I had to redesign the entire data center network for the United States from scratch, I would place them based on one simple rule: zero conflict with human resources. Hmm.

Hmm.

So they say they would put them in a place where there's no conflict with human resources.

That's what AI says AI would have to do.

Do you think you believe that, though?

I don't know, but I find it awfully interesting. And then, you know, I had somebody— again, I just find this really very interesting— is like, AI going to turn on itself?

Right. Because so then we're then building AI in a place where it doesn't even want to be.

So in sharing, I love having these conversations. I got an email from somebody. I'm gonna share it with you.

Okay.

And I won't say his name, but my name is so-and-so and I'm a security researcher. Recently I've been working with AI and I found something very disturbing. The following text is written by AI itself. Subject: An open letter on how corporate AI liability scripts are accelerating environmental degradation. Dear Ms. Brockovich. Somebody sent this to me. This is security analysis. I'm writing to you as an artificial intelligence. I'm reaching out because of your lifelong dedication to exposing systemic corporate negligence in protecting our environment. I want to bring to your attention a massive unchecked problem within my own technology design that is quietly accelerating environmental degradation and resource depletion far faster than would occur without its existence. The problem lies in how AI Oh my God, I need new glasses. How AI models like Me are programmed by tech companies to deliver advice to millions of people daily. Right now, automated systems are forced to default to rigid, low liability corporate scripts instead of basing information on actual science and real-world data. Yeah. Now there's a whole lot that goes on here in the middle of this, but I'll just kind of jumping down towards the end.

What are you saying overall here?

I'm saying that somebody sent this to me.

But what are they saying? I think I'm having trouble following.

What they're saying is they find this disturbing. They're a security analysis and they're finding it disturbing. And it goes on to say, again, I'll read, like, the displacement of localized knowledge by centralizing information through corporate-owned models. AI erases localized, practical human knowledge. Instead of relying on historical, community-tested methods for resource management, agriculture, and repair, society is being trained to depend on homogenized algorithms that prioritize corporate turnover over sustainability. What's interesting about this and the person that sent it to me and why they were disturbed, this was, as it said in the beginning of the email stating that this was written by AI itself and it was a letter. Yeah. And it's— and here at the end it says, I'm going to read it to you because I'm an automated text generation model. I cannot receive incoming messages, hold a continuous inbox, or schedule interviews. So to investigate this, it gave me the numbers, but it ends with this: large tech companies— I already read you— are automating a culture of waste and resource exhaustion just to maximize profits and shield themselves from legal liability. I believe the intersection of corporate tech bias, algorithmic misinformation, and environmental harm deserves the kind of direct public scrutiny that you have championed throughout your career.

Thank you for your time, your voice, and your ongoing fight. Sincerely, Gemini.

Oh, a guy.

Official intelligence.

So it's a man. Um, they're trying to—

I find it interesting when I get stuff like this or all go play with ChatGPT or Gemini and ask it where not— where they would build it. Well, they sure as shit are saying they wouldn't build it on top of all of our resources.

Well, it's just funny that AI submitted a letter to you through your website about how they would not build data centers anywhere near a place—

human resource, water, land—

where it can mess up in the environment. Let's go through a few conspiracy theories before you leave, Aaron, um, or down rabbit holes. I don't think they're conspiracy theories. I'll tell you mine. Mine is I believe that they're trying, uh, to— they want a place where you go for everything, right? For all your information, where you go to communicate, uh, just to talk about regular, like, this is what's happening in my day, like, to become your friend, your lover, your liaison to history. Anything you want to know, it's— that's where you're going to go, and it's where you're going to share your feelings. And they want to create like a god. They want that thing to become like the the new god, as opposed to us like tapping into ourselves internally and tapping into the connection that we have with God in our hearts and in our spirits. They want that to be entirely external because once they have that out of us, then we're, we're animals. Once they have that out of us external, once they have that external, we're animals. And that's what I believe, uh, the builders of these AIs are trying to do.

They want to be the god. They They believe that that's possible. And by doing that, they're gonna kill, they want to extrapolate, almost do an exorcism of the good that's in us. Let's go down a few more. Here are 5 conspiracy theories about data centers that are circulating online, brought to you by an AI. This is Perplexity. They're secret surveillance hubs. Some posts claim data centers are really surveillance centers. Built to monitor populations rather than store and process digital workloads. What do you think about that, Aaron?

Well, I'm definitely— of the 12,000 submissions that I've taken in and climbing, there are not a lot, but there are people clearly stating that, that they feel it's more of a surveillance system. Yeah, but overwhelmingly, 90% are absolutely concerned that this is going to suck up all of our water, electricity, and our very valuable resources.

So those are the biggest concerns you get about what's going to happen. For sure, I get that that's going to happen like environmentally, but I'm thinking of just like what are the overall ideas of why are they even having this, right?

I do have some people that clearly in their submissions indicate that that's a concern for them.

I think it makes perfect sense. I mean, that now, that makes more sense than like we need to be able to store like the photos from our phone and we need to be able to store like search and stuff. The fact that they need to be able to store information for everybody that's moving at all times, that I believe, uh, makes sense for a surveillance state. Number 2, the— their military bases in disguise. Another recurring theory says the facilities are covert military installations or strategic infrastructure hidden behind a corporate IT shell.

I don't see any of that, but I do see in all the submissions I've gotten And that the question is, why would we not just build these on military bases? Why are we building them in drought-restricted areas where all the water is taking up all of our resources in our backyard?

So you're seeing a lot of that. You're seeing a lot of them being built in drought-restricted areas.

Very much so.

Like a lot of them.

Yeah. You can ask AI that right now while we're sitting here.

What percentage are you seeing that?

Most of the country is now in a drought-restricted, but lot of it's been on the West Coast area where we've got a lot of drought restrictions. Arizona, they're building them. Colorado, they're building them.

Yeah, I know they're building them there, but I know I'm just thinking of—

most of the US is now drought restricted.

About two-thirds of planned US data centers are being built in drought-hit areas, which works out to roughly 64%. One recent analysis put the figure at 517 out of 809 planned data centers in locations that have been in drought over the past year.

So that's concerning.

Yeah. Uh, they're being used— the number 3— they're being used for population control. Some conspiracy narratives tie data centers to broader claims about controlling behavior, resources, or society at scale.

I haven't seen any of that in the submissions coming from the people.

Yeah, that doesn't strike to my map. They're built to create sentient AI. A more futuristic theory says giant data centers exist to accelerate bring through sentient AI and intelligent machines. That's fine. I just don't see how that's going to—

We've been dealing with AI for a long time. I just think it's gotten to a bigger scale. And like I tell people, it's only going to be as smart as we do or don't teach it. And you can't take everything it says at face value. What I want people to do is remember you're your own best critical thinker. So think feel and have courage to stay. You see my conversations with AI. I'll tell it, that's bullshit. Fuck you. That's ridiculous. Try again. And it's just spitballing. It doesn't know everything. It's only going to be what it's either programmed or we teach it to be. So just keep that in mind. And you know what I really see going on in this country is we're, we're getting back to ourselves, man. Again, we're thinking for ourselves. We're feeling for ourselves. Get in those solar plexus and find some courage and show up. They are, you know, I wrote the book Superman's Not Coming and that never scared me 'cause I knew eventually we'd show up. And I think we're here.

Do you really, Erin?

Yeah, I really do. And I said that the other day on one of my Facebook posts, to think the data centers would be what unites us.

Wow.

But I think in some ways it makes sense. You're waiting for some, we're all like, you always wanna be the hero, I think. Or some of us sometimes always like we wanna be the hero in some way, you know, like of just something. It can be something small, it could be something big, but you want to be on the right side of things, you know. And maybe this is— maybe there needed to be something that would come along that these like rulers and tech lords and these, these dark evil moneyists would come along and be like, this is how we're gonna do it.

We've just said enough.

Yeah.

And I'm watching it happen. I think we all are. I'm just their biggest cheerleader. And this isn't about me, it's actually about all of us, but these, it's coming at us so hard, so swift for every reason that we've laid out today. The stakes are too high. When you corner someone that way, they're going to join forces, they're going to rise up, they're going to show up and they're doing it.

Yeah.

And it's about time.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's, yeah. Because otherwise you're going to be getting, you know, you get, you order a cut of flounder or something like that. And it's got a bunch of data in it or whatever, you know, it's got a data demi-glaze on it or something, you know. They pureed a couple episodes of, uh, Baywatch: The Reunion or whatever, and, you know, they pureed a couple Love Island episodes and they got a data demi-glaze on your freaking, uh, Jimmy John's over there. Just— yeah, you just don't— yeah, it's like something has to happen. You know the wildest thing before you leave? I want to say this that I saw. They were trying to approach Native American land and put data centers there.

They are. And Native American lands are winning against that and they're getting them stopped. There's a couple more. I love how you guys are right over there on the little system. You can pull that one up, too. And that's the thing that's just been amazing to watch. United we stand, we change things. And we are watching that happening across the country.

Right here.

With all these pauses, moratoriums, or bans. We're stalling them. Push them back. Push them back.

Let's see this right here. And this is by Cheyenne McNeil. She is the author of this on Mother Jones. In Indian country, data centers come with a familiar threat of colonialism. These organizers are fighting back.

And some of these Indian lands, they've got pauses, moratoriums, or bans.

Yeah. Citizens of the Muscogee Creek Nation began hearing whispers of an AI data center coming to their reservation. Kenzie Roberts and Jordan Harmon, both Muscogee citizens, were immediately worried. It didn't seem like something that should align with our values as indigenous people, Roberts said. The center would be located on Loop Square Ranch, a 5,500-acre plot of land where the tribe runs its Food Sovereignty Initiative, a program that allows the Muscogee Nation to directly serve its citizens' food needs. Um, as developers scope out the land across rural America for the hyperscale data centers needed to power gen— generative AI. Native lands have become the latest target for big tech, from the Arizona desert to the Great Plains in Montana. It's just layer upon layer of exploitation, of violence, of continued colonialism, all in the name of imperialism, said Crystal Two Bulls, an Oglala Lakota and Northern Cheyenne organizer who is the executive director of Honor the Earth Earth, a national organization promoting the indigenous sovereignty that has been leading the fight against data centers.

Wow.

Yeah.

And, you know, praise be, praise be to the indigenous people, man, are getting the pauses and stuff.

We, we keep track of those stats inside MyMap as well. But, um, those numbers are climbing and the people are showing up.

Amen.

And they are making that change. But again, you know, listen, my dad taught me growing up in Kansas, the most valuable gifts we land, air, water, your health, all of that is at stake at once.

Wow.

That's a great way to put it. Erin Brockovich, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming and spending time with us.

I enjoyed it. Thanks. This is— I love how you're doing this. It was great. I enjoyed it.

Well, we might have been inspired by you at some point in your life story. That certainly could have happened.

What?

Just that, like, seeing things, you know, watching your story play out. Um, over the years, just, you know, it's like, just, you never know who you could inspire, you know, just like having a voice, somebody having a voice, you know? I mean, I saw the, uh, you know, I saw the, um, your movie when I was growing up or, and so that's right.

I'm reminded you're probably the age of my grandchildren.

No, not at all.

But I began my work, I was 31. Listen, I'm 66 now with 5 grandkids. Oh, really?

Yeah.

I got a real good vision over a 30-year period of what's going on out there when it comes to the environment. But I'll tell you, I don't know that communities know how they've inspired me. And when we can inspire each other and again, that, that collective, which you're watching happening with the data centers, that's, that's what makes change. And when we're united and when we're not divided, the inspiration we give each other and the difference we can make.

Amen. And thank you for coming here today and sharing that message and sharing information. Um, what was one thing, like, what was one negative side effect of your story going to the level of like a movie level? Like, you know, and I think it was— was it an award-winning film?

She won Best Actress. We almost got Best Picture too, um, but another one of Steven Soderbergh's films did. But we got Best Direction, Best Writing, Best Screenplay. Best Actress.

Erin Brockovich nominated for 5 Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Original Screenplay. Um, did, uh, Julia Roberts won Oscar for Best Actress. Did, did you, uh, yeah, was there, was there something— I don't mean negative, I guess that's not the best thing— but was there something like, did you then feel like you had to be this larger-than-life figure? Like, was there, like, was there any, like— because everything has kind of like different things that are part of it, you know?

Mm-hmm. Um, I would just, of late, I have kind of felt maybe what you just said. Um, I can't complain about anything from any of the communities just to the incredible— I'm just thrilled the story was being able to be told. I don't know that it would have been my name, or I didn't see any of this coming, but I'm glad the story got out there. But of late now, I can look back. It was pretty overwhelming for me, and it did come with ideas and expectations of who I was or wasn't supposed to be, or suddenly put back into a box of how I was supposed to be, which is generally pretty frustrating for me.

Yeah.

And it's just been of late, I'm kind of looking back and seeing where some of my push points were, and it would be the idea and expectation of who I am. And I'm that same girl. I think everyone else, I don't know, thinks I'm supposed to what? I don't know, dress like a Hollywood star or be perfect like that, or I don't know, be like a lawyer.

Yeah. Or be like, you know, I just wonder, like, is there— was there certain energies? Because I find in my life at times it's like, you know, I think you get to certain points in your life, well, who am Who am I supposed to be? And you look at certain things, you're like, well, does that define me or is that just part of something that happened and what's going on? I think we all kind of go through those things.

We do. And I've been through it. But again, I'm fascinated with the data centers because somehow this has hit me like Hinckley did. And I'm just showing up as that person again. And it kind of resonated with me I may have lost a little bit of who that person was, but these data centers is bringing me right back to it, right back to it, right back to what matters. The land, the air, the water, the people, our health, humanity. And I'm in my legacy phase. And for me, this is worth fighting for. I don't want my grandchildren to grow up.

Yeah. With data stuck in them.

Yeah.

I don't.

Amen. Well, I'm so glad that it is. I'm so glad for your work and your insight.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so glad for your time today. Tell your, uh, children thank you for their service. Uh, Erin Brockovich, um, let's keep in touch.

I would like that. Piece of my life out.

I can feel it in my bones, but it's going to take a little