Transcript of The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today as we answer your questions, the phone number is 888-825-5225. Jade is in Memphis. Hi, Jade. How are you? Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Okay. We were in Baby Step 2, but now we're in Baby Step One, and I got a notification that one of our credit cards is in threat of being charged off within 30 days. I don't really know what we should do. If I should take out a loan, ask friends for that money because they're trying to settle, or if I should just let it go to collection.

How much is it?

It's $10,000, but they want to settle for $4,800.

Okay. Do you have any money anywhere?

No. So I lost my job in October, and I found out I was pregnant, and then I lost the baby in December. I'm sorry. And so we have less than the $1,000 in savings, and we're paycheck to paycheck. Check right now.

Okay. I'm sorry you went through that. What are you and your husband earning combined every month?

Well, so before, I mean, my job, I got 60,000. So we took a 60,000 dollar pay cut, and he makes 50.

Are you getting a job? Have you found a position?

So I have got a new job. I'm a mental health therapist, but it's part-time right now while I build clients. So I'm bringing home anywhere from 500 to a thousand every two weeks.

Okay. That's not too, too bad. Five hundred to a thousand every two weeks. Okay, so here's what I'm thinking. Right now, you've been through a lot very quickly, And I applaud you for jumping back on your feet really quick. Is this $10,000? Is this the only debt you have? Is there more?

No. So we have two more credit cards, so 30, and then this 10, so 40. The There are two were in payment plans for. So when I lost my job, I closed them and I went into payment plans with lower interest rates. But this one, they wouldn't work with us, and so we didn't have the money to pay it.

Tell me a little bit more about… I'm just trying to figure out what you can scrounge up, if there's anything you can sell, how quickly you can get this, or if you can even negotiate a smaller amount than the 4,800. Likely not, but I would try it.

I didn't I don't know if I should call and I should try that. I would.

Why not? Not unless you have the money line. Let me try it. Not unless you got the money.

Is there anything you can sell off? Tell me about your cars.

One car we own outright, and then one car we still have 10 left on, 10,000. Been left on. And that's our main vehicle that we use.

How many kids do you have, hon?

We have one. And we pay for daycare, so she's four, so we pay- How quickly is your income going to ramp up, do you think? I'm hoping Even within the month. So by February, we should get back to my income. I get paid 53 an hour, and I have 10 clients right now. So if I can get up to 20 clients, then I should reach that by February. But this will be charged off by the end of January.

How much is your- Let's stop a second, okay? Charged off does not mean anything.

Okay.

You already have a debt that has gone to collections. Your debt is already bad. Agreed?

Okay. Yes.

Okay. When they charge it off, it simply means they are not going to count it on their books anymore because they don't think they're going to collect it. But it doesn't make your credit worse. Your credit already is trashed.

Yeah, it's bad. I just didn't want them to sue us and garner.

That would take a long time. They'll get around to that eventually. But charging Charging it off, that is not a sign you're getting ready to get sued. How long ago did you pay the last payment on this account?

Probably September. Okay.

I doubt you're in any danger. Okay? Okay. I don't care if they charge it off. Guess what? If they charge it off, the next day you talk to them, they'll take the 4,800 because they still want their money. The only difference is just they're coming up with these boogie a man in the closet. Oh, we're going to charge it off. No, please. What does that mean? No, please. What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything, really. Okay? So let's not worry about it today.

I don't want to be kicked while we're down.

I know. You could get sued, but even then, you could settle the lawsuit for the same 4,800. Okay? It's not like every day this gets later and later and later, the The chances, statistically, of them collecting it is smaller and smaller, so they are more and more flexible. They'll settle for less and less. Not less and less flexible. Okay. It's not like it's a one-time, good-time deal. This is a one-time, okay deal, and you probably could get the exact same deal or better two months from now when you guys are back on your feet.

Okay.

I think I'm just going to say, Guys, we just lost a baby. I've got a brand new job. We simply don't have the money. It's a very kind offer for 4,800, but I don't have $4,800. If I did, you probably wouldn't be late.

Well, I didn't know if I should stop paying the other two cards that we're current on to I don't know. No. I don't want to make a deal with them or if I should- No, I would just keep doing what you're doing, and let's get back up on our feet, and then let's get the debt snowball working and start paying those minimum payments you're paying.

You can save up some money and call these people and say, Hey, I got $4,000. I got $3,000. You want to take that? If they want to take it, fine. If not, hang up on them. Call them back in two months. They'll do it then. Just keep working your plan, working your debt snowball. But I don't think we're going to let them establish the urgency.

Okay.

Matter of fact, I know we're not going to let them establish the urgency.

When you're telling this story, Jade, it's funny because I literally wrote about a similar instance in my book, and you're saying the same thing. What you just said Oh, I'm thinking of taking these other credit cards and not paying those and paying it to other people. You feel that because of the stress, and they're calling you and they're blowing up your phone and you're trying to focus on other things, and they're just inundating you with calls and offers. Dave is right. Just do what you know to do. Keep those minimum payments going. Get on your feet and don't let them be in control, because if you let them be in control, all they want to do is take. They don't care about the fact that you need to buy groceries. They don't care about the fact that you lost a baby. They don't care about that. And so don't give them any more power.

And don't give them any ammunition. There's no sense in having a discussion.

Yeah, that's why I stopped making assignments because I just wouldn't work with us.

And guess what? Now they're very flexible. Okay. And guess what? Three months from now, they'll be flexible again.

Be like little gymnasts calling you up. I love it. I'm going to give you a copy of my book, okay, Jade? Yeah.

Jade to Jade.

Jade to Jade hookup. Friend to friend. I never meet anybody with my same name. That's a very new thing for me.

And with a question that you've been through.

I know. Exactly. It was meant to be on this publishing day.

There we go. The book comes out today. It's on the street. What No One Tells You About Money, the real key to Getting Unstuck from Someone Who's Been There. Let's talk to credit card people. At the credit card time, charged off.

If you're waking up tired every morning, you don't need more caffeine, you need better rest. And that's why Casper mattresses are engineered to help you sleep deeper and wake up refreshed. And this isn't just one George's opinion.

Thousands of five-star reviews prove it.

Plus, Casper mattresses ship free and come with a hundred-night trial, so you've got nothing to lose. Sleep is a must, and you deserve the best. So go to casper. Com/ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. That gives you up to 1,200 bucks off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on every night. That's casper. Com/ramsey. Code Ramsey. Exclusions apply.

Well, guys, we know there's a lot of chaos out there making you feel like you cannot get ahead with money. A lot of messages, a lot of voices saying it can't be done. But you have more control than you think and then you're being told. This year, it's time to take back your money starting at our free Every Dollar Live stream this Thursday night. Jade and I will be hosting this, and hundreds of thousands of you, probably millions, will be joining us. Thank you for that. It's free. We're going to give you the clarity in the middle of the chaos, and we can show you actually how to take back your money, get ahead with money. And we're going to be giving away $20,000 cash that night. Hello. No purchase necessary. Obviously, it's freaking free. Then I mentioned that it's free. And all you have to do is enter the giveaway to sign up, right? All you have to do to enter the giveaway is to You sign up. Register right now, and that puts you in there for the giveaway, and also sends you up to get all the links and everything so you can watch the free Every Dollar Live stream.

Jade and I will be doing it in front of a 2,500 person audience right here in Our Ramsey Events Center this coming Thursday night. I'm looking forward to it.

Me too.

Yeah. Ramseysolutions. Com/livestream. I watched Jade do her portion of it the other day in practice rounds, and you Guys, listen, I should charge you a lot for this, but it's free. I'm just saying it's really... You're going to get some solid information, some things to help you cut through all the garbit out there. There's a lot of squawking out there. Have you noticed? The only way you get rid of the squawking is to have a plan because then you quit listening to all the squawking. Everybody's got a dadgum opinion about why you can't win. Have you ever noticed that? They're all people that aren't winning, by the way. Hello. People that are winning, they don't write in the comments section.

Good point.

You ever seen successful people that stop and write stuff negative in someone else's comment section? Mm-hmm. They don't. Your comment section, if you don't know, is not necessarily your YouTube page. It's just your life. When you're sitting there saying something positive and they're going, Oh, yeah, but don't you know about? And it's the little man can't get ahead. And, oh, it's all rigged. And the corporations, the corporations and the taxes and the government and the inflation and Biden and Trump.

And, oh, oh, oh, oh, free. Ramsey solutions. Com/livestream. Be sure and jump in. It's the free every dollar livestream. Katherine is in Dallas. Hey, Katherine, what's up? Hey, how are you? Good.

How can we help?

I was recently laid off, effective at the end of the month. Now me and my husband are trying to figure out what we should do with what we have in savings to make that work the best for us.

Okay. What were you making?

I was making about 42,000 a year.

Okay. Doing what?

As a legal assistant.

Okay. And they laid you off after Christmas?

No, before Christmas.

Oh, that month.

The week before.

The week before?

I'm sorry.

So you were working for Grinch & Grinch? I mean, wow.

We might as well have, yeah.

I can't imagine. If I was going to lay somebody off the week before Christmas, I would do it the week before Thanksgiving, just so I didn't do it the week before Christmas.

Just give it some air. Oh, my God.

It came after they flew me out for a Christmas party. The week What did you do at the Christmas party, Katherine?

I had one free drink and went to my hotel. Oh, boy.

I'm sorry that happened. Oh, man. I'm sorry. Okay, this sucks. Okay, anyway, aside from their lack of quality timing. Let's see. How's the job hunt going?

I started it that night after a bottle of wine. Good for you. A lot of crying.

A bottle of wine. It's a good thing to start filling out your resume after a bottle of water.

Yeah. I've got a couple of interviews lined up, and the goal, obviously, is to not have any laps.

There you go. You got a little severance.

No, no severance. They told me that the notice was our severance.

Oh, I see.

You're just trying… You don't want to have any lack of…

Good. No laps. Good. That's a good plan. All right. How are you getting some nibbles?

I've got a couple of interviews lined up, and I hope that... Again, I hope there's no lapse, and that I hope that something, anything, I will do anything.

Okay. Can you not cover the lapse for one month on your husband's income?

Yeah. What's he make?

On my husband's income, he's military, so I think he puts down, if we are selling out a form, I think he puts down 70,000 a year is what he makes. When we did, because that night we did a breakdown of our expenses, Because if we changed absolutely nothing, we would be in the negative every month. How much? It was like a few hundred bucks because- Okay, and how much do you have in savings? We have about 16,000 between the two of us. No, no. I was actually going to be a surrogate and had a miscarriage about partway through that process. So we have a decent amount of money in a separate account, because I purposely did not want to spend it, that we have not touched.

Aside from the 16,000?

No, that is the bulk.

Okay, so- Got it. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. Don't do anything. Just go get a job. If you don't get one and you have a gap for $2,000 or $300, Take the $2,000 or $300, $16,000, and then the next month, you're back up to even, right? Okay. Okay.

That's what the emergency fund is there for. Yeah.

Now, you've got debt and other stuff, though, right?

Yes. Yes, we do have debt.

For right now, we're not doing a total money makeover. We're just going to sit here in the middle of the hurricane until the wind quits blowing, and that's when you get the new job. Then we will assess the damage, and that might be, in the middle of the hurricane, until the wind quits blowing, and that's when you get the new job. Then we will assess the damage, and that might be, in the middle of the hurricane, to pay a couple of hundred bucks out of the 16,000 to float you for that one month till you get your paycheck going again. But I'm pretty dadgum sure, listening to you, you're going to have a paycheck in a month.

I sure hope I mean, really, I think you are, don't you? I'm watching.

Okay, so if you don't, it costs you 200 bucks of your savings, right?

Yeah, it would cost me a couple of hundred.

If you don't the next month, it costs you 200 more. That's 400 whole dollars out of 16,000.

And if you start creeping up on two or three months, you could easily pick up a little side hustle to cover that.

She's not going to do that. She's going to have a job. Because you got too much going on here. You're going to get a job. So my point is, you just don't do anything. And if you have to cover a little bit less than $1,000 out of this 16, it's no big deal, right? Mathematically. It just goes all with the fear of looking for a job and the pissed off of being mistreated and all that stuff mixes in. Then the math quits being clear.

Right. Because my husband and I disagree. He to pay things off and have money left.

No, no. But you can't right now. You got to get right side up first.

As soon as you get back to work, the two of you need to combine your income, combine your debt, combine your savings, and start the total money makeover, and start getting, save the $1,000 and take the rest of that 16 and throw it at the debt, smallest to largest, once you're moving again.

I want to change your mindset on this a little bit, Katherine, and I know it's easy for me to say it on this side of things, but You got to look at this as an opportunity. Instead of looking at it like, Oh, man, I got fired. I got fired the week before Christmas, and all these negative things, maybe it's an opportunity for you to make more money than you've ever made and have a better job than what you had before in a more fulfilling workspace, right?

It's not a high bar to get better people to work with.

Yeah. This could turn out to be the best thing that's happened to you, but you got to switch your brain into that mode, and it's going to change the way this feels for you.

Yeah. And note to self, don't fly out to next year's Christmas party. Wow.

No bottle of wine before the interview.

They started budgeting and did that resume right after that first bottle of wine. We're going to get everything straightened out now by our guy.

This show is sponsored by Better Health. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all the stuff you're carrying, all those things you think you have to do, all the past hurts and pains, along with your past guilt and shame. When the world feels heavy, it's It's important to look in the mirror and consider setting down that old weight and not carrying it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on living the life you want to live in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend Betterhelp. With over 30,000 therapists, Betterhelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions, with an average rating of 4. 9 stars out of five. And it's easy to fit into your busy schedule because it's totally online. To get started, just answer a few easy questions, and Betterhelp will connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down.

Go to betterhelp. Com/ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/ramsey.

Jesse is in Memphis. Hi, Jesse, how are you?

I'm doing better than I deserve.

How about you, Dave? Just the same, sir. What's up?

Good, good. Okay, so little preface. I work for a great company, and I did fairly well last year. They were taking my wife and I on a cruise in February, along with a lot of the people who had also gotten the metrics. I was just wondering, I'm in baby step two, and so I know I shouldn't be on any vacations or going out spending, but am I allowed to have an allotted side job to use on this vacation? And yes, I get paid for it.

Is it just you just need pocket money?

You're allowed to do whatever you want to do, Jessie, but what would we do if you're in baby step two? This cruise is not costing you anything?

No, I get paid the whole time I'm gone. I get a room and board and the company vehicle down to the port.

Okay, so just pocket money for meals or whatever Whatever.

My mail mail should be included on the cruise, right?

Yeah, but she still needs a little bit of money. It's just for excursions or to have a little fun. This is the only vacation that I'm, quote, unquote, planning.

What If you planned it out and you've looked at it, what do you think is the amount of money you think you would need for it that you would spend?

Yes, we did it last year, and I did like bare bones, so I didn't spend anything. And I know that we could do it again like that. Good. Great.

That's the plan. Don't talk to me about I don't ever get to go on vacation. I did a cruise last year. That's the plan. No whining.

This is. Great.

Wait, let me get you back to your senses. How much debt do you have?

Okay, so I got about five in consumer, two cards. That started this in November, so I've already cut that down from 7K. Then I got my car, and that's about 14. That's it.

I would go, Jessie, but what I would do is I want you to reframe this in your head. Okay? The reason that we teach people to stay out of restaurants and stay out of vacations while they're in Baby Step 2 is total focus. That I have one job, and that's to defeat the debt. Because if I live like no one else, later I can live and give like no one else. I'm paying a price to win. Okay? Okay. And that's how you frame this decision in your head. Not Dave, I want to go on a vacation. We're not going to get to you on vacation for a long time. We went on a cruise last year, but come on, man.

Wait, let me frame it to you like this.

I'm sorry. No, I mean, really. You need to frame it up with, I'm going to do this. I don't need Dave's permission to do it for sure. You're like a grown man and you hit your metrics, okay? But I'm going to do this, but I'm also going to make sure that the altitude and the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed. Oh, yeah. Away from the rationalizations and the justifications that allowed me to get into this mess in the first place.

Yes, sir.

That's why we do this, because we're trying to shock your spirit into saying you're not entitled to vacations or eating out. Those are entertainment, luxury items while you broke people. I want people's spirit to be shocked. That's what happened to my spirit. I didn't have the option of doing it voluntarily. It was snatched from me because I was so stupid, I went bankrupt. I got you beat down on stupid, right? Listen, I thought whining was a little known form of prayer. I had whining down, too. But what I figured out is that you have to change the altitude, the attitude the angle of your heart permanently regarding these things. So you never again talk yourself into something that down deep you know you shouldn't be doing. I think this is fine, mathematically.

Okay. And on Jade's point of view, I just wanted to add this real quick. I am picking up a side job this year, too.

It doesn't matter. That should all go towards the debt.

What we're talking about is you set the boundary. And once, if you have said to yourself, I'm getting out of debt, That's the priority. If you let these little things start leaking past the goalpost, more and more sneak past. It's like when you say, I'm not eating any sweets, and then somebody makes a pan of brownies. Well, already you've gone past it because the pan is there. But then what do you do? You slice off a little piece and you go, I'm just going to have that little piece? Then you go back in and you slice off another little corner and another little corner. Before you know, you've ate the pan of brownies.

Are you following me around?

I saw you. That's what we all do. We've all done it, and that's a great way to think of it. You got a pound of brownies because They gave you the free trip. You get to decide how much you slice off. Don't slice any of it off. The pan is just sitting there.

What we're doing is you have to set new neuro pathways in your brain.

Yeah, that's the real part.

That says, I'm done with this crap. I would go, but I'm going to... Your side hustle is to set the new neuro pathways and go, I'm going, but I'm going to be unbelievably disciplined about this slice.

Yes, very disciplined.

Because I know the danger is not the actual slice. The danger is I'm still going back to the brownie pan. Yes.

Throw the pan away after this slice.

That's the thing. That's what it is. I mean, that's what we're trying to... You have to permanently change the way you talk to yourself about this, the words that you use out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, the Bible says. And so the words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves and even the tone that we use to ourselves about talking ourselves into or out of something reflects whether or not is your heart right on this? That's the thing. Guys, that's the lesson, the takeaway from Jesse's call, because it's a good call. Jesse's obviously a good guy, and he's obviously a high producing dude.

When you go out there, though, take a step further, what Dave just said. When you go out there, Jessie, what you can't do is, Well, I can't spend any money. I can't do. No, no poor mouthful. Don't do that. You have to say, You have to form the words of what you want, which is, I'm choosing. Everything's a choice.

I've chosen to be grateful that I do this, that the company gave me this, because otherwise, I wouldn't be able to do it this year. Yes. Because this year, we're not going on vacation.

Yeah, but paying off my debt is my priority. Exactly. That's how you talk to yourself.

You reset this whole set of tapes that's running in your brain man. That's why we do some of the things we do, you all. What we're doing is the pendulum has swung too far to the consumer side where he says, Everything's okay, just push the submit button, load the cart, right? I can impulse anything I want, and I work so hard, and I deserve, and all these things we tell ourselves. All we're doing is swinging the pendulum back to the other side and go, You don't deserve nothing. Shut up. You broke people.

It's like you're quoting the book. Good job.

Your book? Yeah. The new one.

The new one. That's out today.

What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone Who's Been There. It's the emotional part of this. That's right. That's what we're dealing with, the neuro pathways, the behavior shifts, all of those things, and the feedback loops you put for yourself. Yes. One of the things that goes with this, too, and Jay, I know you talked about this in there as well, indirectly. Not exactly the way I'm going to say it, in other words. But one of the things I did, Jessie, when I was at your thing, it's completely different from your question, but it fits in the same bucket of stuff. I don't do things mechanically, tactically with how I pay things that aren't automatically always getting me the discount. Before there was online bill pay, because there was no online, I prepaid my utility bills.

To get the discount.

To get the discounts. Prepaid to get the discounts. I set it on an auto calendar. I have automatic draft to this day on my checking account. It goes straight into a mutual fund every single month, automatically out of my checking account. So I don't accidentally forget it. That's right. I have automatic discipline all the way through there. There was a guy out 100 years ago when one of my first best sellers called Automatic Millionaire. His name is David Bach. It was a best-selling book. He said, Just put everything on automatic so that you're automatically doing smart stuff.

Automate smart, yes.

And you don't have to think about it. You don't have to be built-in discipline with the systems, not like, I'm going to grip my teeth and do this every time.

That's right.

And that's the same thing. We're resetting how we view this and what's the attitude, the altitude, and the angle of my heart on this stuff. Very good.

Every year, I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year plan is, in many cases, just plain cheap. That amount of coverage lets your family keep the lights on and keep food on the table while they're grieving. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay at home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the call set up without someone at home taking care of things. So no more excuses, folks. Get the protection your family needs. Go to zander. Com or call 800 356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust. Chris is with us in Denver. Hey, Chris, how are you?

I'm well. Thanks for taking my call, Dave.

Sure, man. What's up?

I used to make good money as an engineer, and I was on baby step four before I knew what the baby steps were. Good. Then three years a go, I made what I realized now, two major mistakes in a row. I bought the biggest house I could buy with 3% down and PMI, thinking that house hacking would be easy. I'm now doing the Airbnb. Then a few months after that, I quit my job because I was miserable there, thinking I had enough savings. I can give you some financial details, but I'm wondering if you think I should sell my house.

Tell us more.

Tell us more.

I quit my job, and then I realized that I would not be making my mortgage if I were to house hacking. So I pivoted and then started doing Airbnb.

Okay. And where are you living?

It took me forever to renovate. During this time, I was in the house. During renovations, I was living in the house. Sorry, Yeah, I was living in the house. And then while I was Airbn... While I Airbn in my house, I was living with my friend that have a couple of kids, and I was helping them. Oh, gosh. With babysitting and in a quick change.

Okay. Chris, how old Are you?

I am 37. Okay.

All right. I mean, sometimes if you wake up from a nightmare and you're standing knee-deep in the swamp, the best thing to do is to return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps. That would, in this case, sound like get a job as an engineer and sell the house.

Yeah.

Then you would have your life back.

Yeah. What prevents you doing that in your mind?

I was interviewing for some engineering jobs in 2025. It was difficult to come back after taking some years off. I also know that I'm not suited for a 9: 00 to 5: 00 now, and I'm pursuing another career path.

Why are you not suited for a 9: 00 to 5: 00? What's wrong with you?

That's a great question.

Are you trying to say that you're entrepreneurial?

Yeah, I believe so.

You're suited for it. You I don't want to do it. Okay. I don't blame you for that. I don't blame you for that. I'm entrepreneurial, too, and I wouldn't want to be trapped somewhere. I don't have an issue with that. What we're saying is not suited for is not the right phrase. What we're saying is it's not preferable for you.

But right now, you're not really in a phase where you can do exactly what you prefer.

Exactly. Preference is no longer a point. You're neck deep in quicksand.

I'm wondering if I give you some numbers, if you think I I'm in quicksand. In 2024, I broke even with my mortgage with the Airbnb. Then in 2025, I was negative 10,000 or 15,000 with my Airbnb.

Is the Airbnb That would be the only money?

Where does this sound like it's fun to you? None of this sounds fun to me. If this was a business unit at Ramsey, we would close the thing and call it failed.

Yeah. I'm wondering I think if an alternative is…

Yeah, maybe- Why are you reluctant to- Why are you reluctant to sell the house? Why do you love this? Yeah.

You don't want to admit that this is screwed up.

Yeah, I think I might Are we falling into sunk cost fallacy.

Okay. Yeah, definitely. 100%.

Tell us about the property.

Can you sell the house for as much as you owe on it?

Yes, I believe so. I put about 100,000 into it renovating it.

Oh, you'd lose that. What will the house sell for?

I'm looking at Zillow and Redfin right now. I bought it for 650. Zillow I was saying 615, Redfin is saying 580.

Oh, so you're not going to get the money out of it.

But you put 100 down or you put 100 in it after you bought it for 650?

A hundred into it after buying it.

So You have $750,000 invested in a house that's worth $600,000.

You know better than I did.

That's what you just told us. Is that what you're telling me?

I don't know if I got an appraisal if it would be worth more. I'm guessing it would be.

Okay. But you're telling me you paid $650,000 for it, plus you put $100,000 into it, meaning you have $750,000 in this house, correct?

Correct.

You don't think it's worth anywhere near that is what you're telling me?

I don't know.

Get a real estate agent. Go on our site. You need to go to ramsey solutions. Com and just in the box type in real estate agent. It'll take you where you need to go. And you need to have somebody come out there. I have done that. Okay, and what did they say? What would they list it for based on what they saw?

I started doing that step, and then I was like, I'm going to talk to Dave directly.

Facts. And now I'm telling you, go do it, see it through, so you can see what the actual numbers are on this.

You need to have numbers. Facts are your friends. You're in trauma, and you need to sell this thing if you can, and you need to retrace your steps and get back on solid ground. And then from there, think about how you can come up with some career choices after you're making a living again. How much money do you have in a bank in non-retirement investments?

Probably about $10,000.

You You got to get a job, man.

We'll send you fine the work you're wired to do because I think you don't know what you want to do. I think you're just coasting. This idea that you might be an entrepreneur, I'm glad that that's so, but we need to get some beef around that and figure out what that's going to be. In the meantime, we'll send you the book, but you also just need to get a job.

The first thing you're suited to do is buy food, lights, and water. The second thing you're suited well to do is pay your stinking bills. The third thing you're well suited to do after you've done those two things is find something that is a style of work that you enjoy, meaning entrepreneurial and more free wheeling than in a 9: 00 to 5: 00. But you don't really have a lot of choices right now, man, because you've done screwed this up. Hello. You've made a mess. And so you got to get the shovel out. The barn is full of poop.

Today is J-O-B.

Yeah. There's some shoveling needs to be done here. So you got a mess. Wow. You do not get to, as an adult, boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, do something that you saw on TikTok that feels fun or good or well-suited, whatever the phraseology we want to use is, when the mathematics around it don't math.

100%.

That's called... You can't...

That's not a reality.

The math does not form to your desires. No. The math does not form to your suited. The math forms to the math.

The math. When Sam and I were getting out of debt, we knew we wanted to start a business, but that takes time. You got to build it up. In the meantime, you have to work and you have to do the things that close the gaps so that the math, maths, so you can continue to accomplish your goals financially while you accomplish your goals career-wise. You have to do it all at the same time. You can't just go, Well, I want to be an actress, or, Well, I want to own a business, and I'm not going to do anything until I have that success. That's not real.

God designed me to be on the stage. Good.

In the meantime.

That means you're also destined to wait tables. That's what that means. Every time. We're in Nashville. How do you get the next country music star's attention? A waiter. That's exactly how you get it, right? Yes. There's calluses that are involved in these things, okay? Yes. God designed me. I'm suited for. I'm good. Me too. We all are wonderfully made. That's why we have finding the work you're wired to do that we're going to send to Chris. That's all great. But you don't get to use this specialness, that card, to try to violate mathematics. It'll destroy your life. It's too harsh. It's mean out there, boys and girls. It's mean out there. After the holidays, a lot of people start feeling budget pressure, and it's a wake-up call to get intentional. So listen, don't fall for buy now, pay later, cell phone plans that drag you back into debt. Boost Mobile keeps it simple with no contracts and no nonsense. Keep the phone you already own and pay just $25 a month forever for unlimited data, talk, and text. That's real long-term value and real peace of mind. Budget like you mean it and go to boostmobil.

Com/ramsey today to make the switch. That's boostmobil. Com/ramsey.

Restrictions apply. See boostmobil. Com/ramsey for details.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Walshaw. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and author of a brand new book that lands in stores today, What No One Tells You About Your Money. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Luanne is in Indianapolis. Hi, Luanne. How are you?

I am doing better than excellent, Mr. Dave. How are you?

Just the same. What's up?

Well, I got an interesting one for you. My husband and I run a construction company together. He started the business in 2018 before we met, which was 2021, engaged in 2022 and married in 2023. I help him with some aspects of the business, but I'm not totally 100% full-time with it just yet. I still have a full-time job on the side. Not on the side. It's the main job for me, unfortunately. But right now, my current access in our bank's finances for the business is as a signer because the bank, I guess, needs me to be listed as an owner with a state, which wasn't a problem until recently. My husband wears many hats and doesn't need to take care of the minutiae of running a business, like fixing business associate debit cards for our team members. So I went into the bank to help an associate with their debit card fix their pen, and I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't an owner. So I asked them what we needed to do. I needed to file through the state, all that fun stuff. We asked our CPA, got some advice on what to and he told us the things that we needed to do.

One of those things was we needed to assign business ownership percentage. Here's where my question comes in. As a married couple, following the biblical principles, I said 50/50 because we are one flesh. We do this thing together, and that's just where my mind and my heart was at. My husband has his business, what I call business glasses and hearing aids in. So His mindset was thinking business, and he came back with 51: 49. And that didn't sit right with me. We talked about it. Something came up and we had to table it. And so my mind was racing. I was emotional, and so I went to one of your podcasts.

Let me ask you this. Regardless of the percentage that's on the piece of paper, how will the two of you treat this business?

We treat it as we both own it. You're going to treat it as 50/50 regardless of what's on the paper.

I bet, aren't you?

Yeah. I mean, it's what we do now.

I think you do now. I think that's the way you're all both. You were in agreement until he went, Well, that's a little weird. Okay, so I'll give you an example. We have several LLLCs that I own zero %, and Sharon owns all of it. In case some idiot decides that Dave Ramsey's got a target on his butt, and he finds an idiot lawyer to help him.

Makes sense.

You know how much I'm worried about that? Zip it well. About Sharon having 100% of it? Not at all, because I told her, if she leaves, I'm going with her.

Yes.

That's the thing, you're stuck together, period. That's it. I think the spirit of your marriage is really What matters in this discussion is what I'm saying. Right. I couldn't care less what's on the paper. I think your 50/50 is the spirit. When he said, 51/49, it violated your spirit. It's like, what? More than you were actually worried about him being in charge, because we all know he's not in charge. He's not doing the details. You are. You already covered that. Yeah. And he knows that, right? But it's as if he wanted to have that one little Trump card somewhere in case he thought he could flex at some point. Ha ha, that's funny. But this is the way this went down. Am I missing something?

No, it was more so like he's been married before, so he understands things happen, and so his mindset was protective mode.

It won't matter if 51, 49. If things go down, He's going to have to take care of you anyway, and it's going to look suspiciously the same.

I had a feeling this was going to be the answer because I started thinking about it. It's splitting hairs because all I need to do is have some ownership to change debit cards.

You already had practical spiritual ownership, and for that matter, legal, because he would have had to deal with the asset if he owed 100% of it. In the event of a divorce, it's got to be on the plate. It's up there to get cut in half, just like everything else is. Just like his 401k has got his name on it if he works in corporate America. But guess what? You're going to take a big bite out of it in the event of a divorce, the wife is. Hello? Right. Even though your name's not on it. That's the same exact thing. You don't get clear of the worst case scenario with this part of the discussion. You get clear of this part of the discussion with a prenup, if you want to go that way, or a postnup in this case, which is really hairy. I think as long as the two of you are in spirit, we own everything together, we're doing life together, we're going forward together, I don't care what the paper says.

Right. I mean, does it really matter what the paper says? The other thought was, in case something happens to him, continuing to let the business run smoothly, as a 1% owner, I could still do that.

Yeah, but I'm- Or 49%. Right now on that LLC, I'm talking about if my wife passes away in a car wreck, I don't have any ownership in that. Now, I have a will, and she has a will on an estate plan. It's instantly mine, and I've got control over it, but I don't have the bank. I've got to take documentation to the bank to start cashing check. I'm on the checking account. But I mean, if I wanted to close that thing down, I've got to bring documentation and death certificates and stuff now because I'm I'm not even on the ownership of it at all. Right. I still got all that crap to deal with. It's just your worst-case scenarios are always worst-case scenarios. The big deal is, are we okay in our marriage relationship, and are we aligned on how we view marital assets that it's ours, as you said? You clearly articulated that, Louanne, and beautifully, by the way. Oh, yeah. Good job. Do you have… Sam and you have You're Sam and you have a business.

We do. There's things, especially now that I'm not part of it, that I'm not part of it. But I also know that if something happened to him, all of that, I would be able to then have access to whatever it is, and it would be willed to me. I know Like he said, 50/50 in spirit. I think what really bothered you is what Dave said, that he said it in a technical way, and it had you questioning if you guys view yourselves the same way. I would just ask about that. At that point, it's really not about the business. It's really not about the money or anything like that. It's just, hey, when you said that, that hurt my feelings because I thought that we were 50/50, and it made it feel like you were going for some power there.

Oh, good call. You know? Yeah. It was a flex. Yeah, it was a little flex. I had this before I had you.

Sometimes she just got to flick it.

Flick it back down. Ficious.

If you missed open enrollment, don't panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December. But Christian Health Care Ministries lets you join anytime. Chm offers a simple, flexible and budget friendly alternative to health insurance, and you can join anytime. That's right. No open enrollment deadlines. Chm is perfect if you're self employed, starting a business, or in between jobs because it gives you options without those out-of-control CROBR costs.

And CHM isn't insurance.

It's a community of believers coming together to share medical bills and pray for one another. That's real peace of mind. You're not just sharing costs, you are sharing community. And families have trusted CHM since 1981 with billions of dollars in medical bills shared. You can see any doctor or hospital you want with no network restrictions.

And members say that they often save hundreds of a month compared to traditional insurance.

So make a change that fits your budget and your values. Check out chministries. Org/budget to learn more. That's chministries. Org/budget.

Well, big news, guys. We mentioned it earlier, Jade Walsh's new book, What No One Tells About Money is officially here. You get your copy at 2,499 at ramsey solutions. Com/store. Jade, what's this book about?

This book is helping you diagnose the emotions that have been keeping you stuck running in the background that you didn't know were there. Things like anger and guilt and shame and frustration. I'm going to help you diagnose it, call it out, and then I'm going to show you the way through it so you can finally use those emotions to help you instead of hold you back.

Get your copy right now, ramsey solutions. Com. Domslaher. Com or anywhere great books are sold. Beca is with us in Denver. Hi, Beca. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

I had a strategy question, so I am in Baby Step number 2. I am 35, single, paying off a good amount of debt. I had a question about my student loans. I'm about 46,500 in student loan debt, but So they're technically in forbearance. And I guess my question is, I've seen some horror stories of people opening up their student loan accounts and, oh my gosh, they've doubled or whatever because of interest. But my question is, is it worth it to budget a specific amount to my student loans, even though I technically don't have a minimum on them right now and use whatever that amount could be towards in My credit card is my big focus right now.

I get your concern, but you're not going to make any extra progress by doing that. You're going to slow down your progress is all. The math is exactly the same. Actually, it's a little better if you pay it on the credit card because credit card is a higher interest rate. If your interest, let's say you were going to give $100 to the student loan and the interest rate on it's 5%, and Instead, you put the $100 on the credit card and the interest on that's 24%, well, obviously the $100, you saved more interest by reducing the 24% account. Agreed?

Yeah.

So it's mathematically incorrect to do what you're talking about. But I'm not as worried about that as I am that I just want you to pound that credit card with viciousness. And then open up the smallest student loan and pound it with viciousness when you get to it in the debt snowball. Yeah.

I'm about in total, in debt. I'm about 92,400 in debt. I have about 3,000 in medical from an ER visit. My credit card is at 16. 5. My car is at 26. 6.

What do you make?

I work in ministry. I make about $76,000 a year.

You got an It's a really expensive car.

Yeah. My car payment is like 543.

What's your car worth?

I'm not good with car stuff, if I'm being honest with you. It's a 2021 Infinity QX 50.

That'd be my homework for you tonight, is to go on Kelly Blue Book and see what it's worth. If you're not upside down or hardly upside down- If you could get out of that and get a cheap, get a hoopty for a while and start pounding and not have a $500 car payment for a while.

I don't want you to drive junk the rest of your life, but I'd love for you to drive junk so you could get rid of the rest of this junk.

Because with that 543 back in your pocket, you'd be finished with that medical debt very quickly. Boom, boom, boom.

I have taken on, because I am serious about my credit card debt, I actually have two other... With my full-time job, I actually have two other part-time jobs now. Good. Wow. At the grocery store, just doing some shopping. And then I have friends who opened up a business, so I'm helping them on the weekend. Good.

So every month, what are you bringing in? Do you know?

Both part-time jobs, I actually just started. I'm hoping between the both of them per month, I can make maybe 500 at one per month and then 600 at the other, just because I'm just doing them on the weekend. Yeah, that's good.

Okay. You're not afraid of hard work, and you're focusing on this. These are all really, really good signs that you're going to win. Okay. What I'm trying to do is how quick can I plow through? What mathematical shovel can I use to shovel $92,000? That's what I'm looking at. If I do $30,000 a year, it's three years. That's $2,500 a month. If I sold the car, it's two years. That's how my brain starts thinking because I want to be free. Because if you didn't have a single payment in the world, and including these student loans hanging over your head that you're not making payments on right now, but you're worried about building up. But if you didn't have any of this in your background, your freedom in the spirit to do ministry would be completely different. Would you agree with me on that?

Yeah.

I actually like the thinking behind that, and I want to double click on it. When you're looking at a high number of debt, in your case, 92,000, some folks have 150,000. Sam and I had 460,000. What you have do is focus on that monthly number because it's overwhelming to say, I have $92,000 of debt I need to pay off. But if you reverse engineer it, and you've already done the math to say, If I pay $2,500 a month, I'm out in two years, then the only thing you need to focus on is $2,500 a month. I got to make $2,500 a month.

We got $1,100 on the side jobs.

Yeah, the extra is what I'm saying.

I'm sorry to say, and we got $1,100 on the side jobs. So that means we only need out of our budget, X, which means we might be able to do $3,500.

Right, but that smaller number, that's a lot easier for your brain to break down and go after than 92,000. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, for sure.

It's easier to digest for you, and then you can actually go for it.

Then what we're going to do is we're going to get on a tight budget, increase income, which you've already done, the increase income part. We're going on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to list these debts regardless of interest rate, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments, which is what generated your call on everything. Nothing on the student loans right now. And cut up the credit cards, and we're going to attack that smallest debt, which is probably one of those stupid little medical bills. We're going to pay off a whole bunch of those in month one. Then in month two, we're going to start hammering this credit card like it's evil, and you're going to start seeing Samuel L. Jackson on the TV and start yelling at him. Start yelling at him, What's in your wallet? My wallet's got cash in it.

Hello. With my medical bills, I'm not as worried with the medical bills because my employer actually I have an HSA, and they contribute to it very generously. Not that I don't count it, of course I do, but I'm like, Oh, that's another account. But when the money comes in, then I just spend from that.

When does the money come in?

I contribute to it monthly, and then they contribute a nice portion quarterly.

Okay. A little free money. We're going to take that free money, but we're not going to wait on it five years. Okay? Right. I still want you to clear those That's smallest to largest. Really, you get to screw around this HSA stuff about three or four months, and after that, you need to just pay it off. Let's get it done. I am worried about all this. I want it out of your life because I want you free, my friend. We're going to set you up with every dollar, which will help you, the budgeting app. It also helps you walk through. It's not just budgeting anymore. It's got all the stuff in it now. It's going to walk you through all of the steps we're talking about. It's going to coach you along the way. It's very personalized now. The algorithm on it is incredible. We're going to give it to you, okay? You hang on, Becker, and Christian will pick up and get you signed up for every dollar, and it's going to walk you through this whole process. You're going to win because you're paying attention. You're not afraid of hard work, and you're learning new things you never learned before.

You've been victimized by these things, and instead, you're going to turn around, put your foot on the neck of it, and say, No more, we're done. You got to stand on the neck of the snake and say, You're done. You don't have a shot anymore, buddy. Absolutely.

I like what you said about the, I keep thinking about that, when you're thinking about a grand total of debt, it helps so much to jump into every dollar and do the financial roadmap so you can see the snapshot with what I'm earning now, how long will it take? It might show you something like three or four years, and you get to say, That's too long.

So I add the $1,100.

I'm going to add more money to it. Then when you get to a point where- Or it's too long.

I'm going to sell the car. Yes. Or it's too long. I'm going to have a garage sale.

And reverse engineer it back. And then you can focus on, what are the three things I do to get that money? I sell the car, I do the garage sale, instead of focusing on $200,000 a day, and I'm stuck.

I'm stuck, yeah. The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. That's exactly right.

This is Dave Ramsey. We all want to know that the money we give to charity is doing something that matters, that it's making a real change, giving someone lasting hope, and Here's one way to make sure of that. Give to preborn. They're the real deal, proven, transparent, and changing lives every day. I trust preborn, and you can, too. They're on the front lines of the battle for life, partnering with clinics to offer free ultrasounds to mothers in crisis. Because when a mom sees her baby on that screen, something changes. It's not just a decision anymore. It's a person. And 80% of the time when a mom sees that ultrasound, she chooses life. Your $28 gift provides one of those ultrasounds. Just $28 to be the reason someone chooses life. And at every clinic, the gospel is shared, giving moms the chance to choose life and find real hope in Christ. $28, one ultrasound, one heartbeat, one mom who realizes she's not alone. That's the life-changing impact your giving makes through preborn. Go now to preborn. Com preborn. Com/ramsey, or call 855-601-2229. That's preborn. Com/ramsey. Abcnews. Com reporting the stock market recorded stellar year-end returns for 2025 when the markets closed before New Year's.

The performance marked three straight years of double-digit gains. The S&P finished up the year up 16%. Jade, we often talk about around here how the only thing you hear on the news about the markets is bad news. That's right. They never report good news. Let me give you the good news, okay? The stock market was up, the S&P, in 2023, 26%. The stock market was up in 2024, 25%. The stock market was up in 2025, 16%. That's a total of 67% in three years. That means three years ago, if you had $100,000 in your 401k in a basic growth stock mutual fund, if you've added nothing to it, you now have almost doubled it at 170. That's right. That's not on the news.

No. And that's a lot of money.

That you missed because you were watching the news, worrying about government shutdowns and tariffs and artificial intelligence bubbles, whatever that is, and whatever else it is that you believe that you're going to watch bad news for every day. So meanwhile, I'm just the Tortoise. I just keep investing every week, every day, every month. I just put a little more in, a little more in. And all these years, 65 years I've been doing that over and over and over, not worrying about what the news said. We've outlived the internet. We've outlived Sirius XM radio. We've outlived Bill Donahue and Sally Jessie Raphael. That's a blast from the past. Well, I'm trying to think of weird stuff from the past. Here we are. You just keep investing and you just keep living. Guys, you're You're not going to hear this on the news. The only thing you hear on the news is when the whole world's coming to an end. What happened in the stock market when the President did so and so, or when he didn't do so and so, or when Iraq did so and so, or Iran did so and so, or name it.

It's in the news, and then, Oh, the market, the market, the market. Up 16% last year. 16%. That means if it had done half, if you have a mutual fund that sucks so bad that your mutual fund did half as good as the stock market, you still did three times what your high yield savings would have done.

It's a big deal.

Just smoke on that for a second, okay? Hello? This is a big deal, you all. This is why you start investing, you keep investing, and you don't stop investing. If you need to turn off the news, it's not a bad idea.

This is also why you get started on the things we teach so you don't miss out on stuff like this because the time is passing.

You get your butt out of deck so you get to take advantage of this.

The time is passing.

Because if you got a million dollars in there during this time- It's looking nice. That means you made $700,000 in three years on your million.

Sleeping.

If you got 10 million, you just made $7 million on your $10 million in three years. Now, is that a guarantee? No. Is it going to happen in the next three years?

No. But it explains why you're in such a good mood.

That and coffee. Yes. I love it. That's fun. Tyler. Tyler is with us in Toledo. Hey, Tyler, what's up?

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

So my fiancée and I have a interesting situation, I guess. We've been working a side hustle for about two years now at our farm, and she's been the manager, and I just... I get to do the fun stuff, sit on the tractor and drive around and pretend I can help him. So the previous owner passed away, and now the son owns it, and he's 18 hours away in Oklahoma, so he's trying to sell it to us. So it would be buying out the business and the house. And we've been looking at houses.

I'm sorry, the business is what? A farm?

It's a horse farm, so it'd be a boarding facility.

Are you going to get the land?

Yes, we'd get the land, we'd get the house, we'd get all that.

What is the land and the house worth?

About three quarters of a million to $800,000.

Okay. And what does this business profit?

The profit right now is about $8,000 a month. Okay.

All right. Okay, and what does he want to sell it for?

He hasn't given us a hard number yet. We're still in the financial stages, the planning beginning stages of it right now, but we're He's talking like 650 to 750.

So he's going to sell you a $750,000 piece of real estate for 650,000 and give you a free business?

Pretty much. He just wants Why?

That doesn't feel right.

Why?

Well, he wants us to have it and wants us to run it under his dad's legacy and all that good stuff, and he's still got younger siblings in the area.

Okay. Let me poke a second and make sure, because when I hear something's too good to be true, you know what the saying is, right? If something sounds too good to be true, it's because it's too good to be true? Yeah. Is this land and house really worth this, or are you just wishing it was?

No, that's what Zillow says. That's what the last estimate was, I think five years ago.

Then that means there's something on the business side that's… Well, I'm not saying this, but it feels like something on one of these sides isn't performing the way it seems.

This guy really likes you all. He really likes you. $400,000 likes you. Is that what I'm saying. Okay? Yeah.

No, I hear what you're saying.

Okay. So I really want to dig into this if I'm you guys, because if these numbers are all accurate, this is a sweet, freaking deal. Okay. Now, how does he want to be paid?

That's what we're trying to figure out right now, because we've been planning our lives. We're supposed to be getting married in September of this year. Good. Then we were planning on buying a house.

Yeah, get married before you close this deal. If you're going to close this deal, get married before you close the deal. Now, the $8,000 a month profit, is that after you're paid and your wife is paid by the old man that died?

That is after everybody's paid all that good stuff.

What do you get paid?

Well, right now, I'm currently working for I was on a free board for my horse.

What were you getting paid when the old man was alive?

About $12 an hour just for barn work.

Okay, so in a month, you would make what?

We'll call it $500 a month.

Nothing. Okay. And what is your wife being paid? Your fiancé to be wife being paid?

She's making about three grand a month over there.

Okay. So let's pretend for Give me a second. Jeez. That you gave almost all of the profits from the business after you all live on $40,000 a year, which is what you're making, okay? And you live on the property and you give the $100,000 a year, roughly, to the son. We're going to give you almost like 95% of the profit goes to you until we get to 650. Would he do that deal?

I guess that would be something I'd have to bring up with him, but I would think so.

That'd take you about six years to work it out. You'd be able to make it $40,000 for six years, and then the whole thing would be free and clear.

Yeah, and I wouldn't quit my full-time job either. My full-time job.

Oh, you have a full-time job.

He sure does. That's good.

Oh, yeah.

I'm a bricklayer. Oh, I missed that part of the conversation because you didn't bring it up. Okay. Even better.

Yeah, I didn't bring it up. This has been a side hustle for us.

I got you. Riding the tractor for the fiancé is a side hustle.

I got it. You know what? I also think this deal, if he likes the sound of it, that's going to give you a good indicator if those profit numbers are right. But if he's like, I would never do that deal, then I definitely want to dig deeper.

A percentage of profit after you make enough to live on. A healthy, like all the profit almost, until he gets his money and then he's done. Then if there's no profit, he don't get his money. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paycheck, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, Just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business for real-time insights, not guesswork. Netsuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems.

So you can trust the data. Stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour today at netsuite. Com/ramsey. That's netsuite. Com/ramsey.

Today's Question of the Day is brought to you by YreFi.

When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, why ReFi can dig you out. They can help you, that is, with low fixed rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to whyrefi. Com/ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. Not in all states.

Okay. Today's question comes from Lucas in Arkansas. He says, How long is too long to save for a down payment on a house? We're expecting a baby soon, and we'll go down to a one income once he arrives, to purchase a modest but well-built home in our area, we would have to save over 120,000 as a down payment in order to qualify with one income. We're debt-free, but it will take us years to get there. There's a couple of things that I'm thinking about here. When we teach the baby steps, baby step 3B is when you're saving for a down payment, and then after that comes baby step 4, where you're investing your 15%. I think, Dave, what happens is people go, Okay, I want to do 3B, but I don't want to sacrifice baby step 4 in the time in the market. We talked about the last segment. How do I juggle that together? Because the truth is, obviously, if you have focus and you take all the money, you're going to put more money towards the down payment. But with a long horizon like this, do you want to really go five, six years or whatever the time frame is and not invest?

I would probably split the difference. Probably once I got past the two, I would say 2-3 years. Is that what you would say? Two to three years is when I'd say, Okay, no more putting every dollar to the down payment. Now I'm going to split it, and I'm going to try to do some towards retirement, not miss out there. I know that that's a sacrifice. We rarely say to do multiple things at one time, but in this case, it's all good.

It's all good for you. I would do 100% towards the down payment for 2-3 years, and then you have to adjust after that if you haven't gotten there. But the other thing, Lucas, is this. Your income during that time is probably going to go up. You're personally income, her income is going to disappear. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe we don't need to do that exactly that way if we want to buy a house. That's true. You can think through that. Maybe she needs to find some work at home type work, something that's flexible where she's home with the kid and does some work at home while a baby is sleeping and so forth. We need an alternative where mom creates an income. I get it. That'll change the picture, too. Then, of course, also, what you're saying is, here's the thing, you can't just yell at the sky and say, My wife's going to stay at home and we're going to buy a house. Be it. In our 20s. So be it. Happen. Yes, it doesn't... Shazam. It doesn't work. You are making a choice, and it's a good choice. It's a good choice if you ask me to say, Mom wants to be home with the baby, that's a fine choice.

I would never shame you for that choice.

But it is a factor in an equation.

You just cut your freaking income in half. That's right. You are deciding not to be able to afford a house as quickly. You're sacrificing one for the other. Or you could say the opposite of that. Like a lot of ladies that work here at Ramsey, full-time. I'm looking at several of them while I'm saying this. Jade, my daughter, Rachel, and Kelly across the glass and so on. We have kids, we are raising a family, and we are professional ladies. We work around that, and It's not only for money, but it's also what you've chosen to do in your life. It's also for money. I've noticed that we pay you all, and so that stuff.

It plays a big part.

It's for money. Hello. I think that's the thing. You can just decide that that's what you're going to do. But by deciding that, you're also deciding some other things.

That's right.

There's some unintended consequences, or they should be actually intended consequences, is my point. You say, by definition, I'm going to choose to live in that neighborhood because we have one income instead of this other neighborhood because we have one income or this other type of house or whatever, this nicer property, right? And by definition, we're going to have to buy something that's a little different to get our foot in the door to get started on this homeownership thing because we're choosing to do this on one income. I don't think it's a bad thing, but you don't get to just say, I do whatever I want and yell at the sky. You can't yell at the sky. It doesn't work. You still have to... There's mathematics involved in all this. This idea that when money is one place, it by definition can't be another place. It's a fixed thing. It doesn't float around. It's not omnipotent. Hey, guys, speaking of homes, buying or selling is a big deal. The market is picking I predict a robust spring. Right now, we're sitting at about 5%, just a little bit over 5% on a 15-year fixed rate. The median house prices have been holding pretty steady right around that low 400,000 mark for quite a while now.

With these interest rates ticking down, we're about to see these markets take off. If you're thinking about buying a home, this is a really good time to start getting your act together. Get out of debt, have your emergency fund in place. If you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some free tools to help you with your buy and sell, and you're doing all that with confidence, go to ramseysolutions. Com/market, and we'll get you going. Julia is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Julia. How are you? Hi, doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. My husband and I are starting Baby Set 2 this month with $75,397 in debt. When When would it be most advantageous to refinance our balloon mortgage?

Immediately. That's a panic. When is the balloon due?

The balloon is up in 2029. Our current interest rate is 5. 5%. If we refinance now, that'll give us about 6. 6%.

No, it won't. I just said just a moment ago, 15 year fixed right now it's 5%.

Really? Yeah. Wow. We've been watching the... Because we just budgeted everything and we were googling interest rates and it said 6. 6%.

It's It's going to be between 5. 5 and 5. 08.

Yeah, right now it's hovering in the low fives for a 15-year fixed this week as you and I are talking. Now, I don't know when people are going to be listening to this particular version of the podcast, but yeah, at the moment you and I are talking, that's what we're looking at. So call Churchill Mortgage and talk to them about refinancing. If you roll 100% of your refinance... Have you got a lot of equity?

Yeah, we have 100-120.

Just roll your refinance costs in and nothing out of pocket. Okay. And get rid of this balloon because this thing's covered over your head and you're just inviting an earthquake in your life. Okay. You ever heard the saying, If anything can go wrong, it Murphy's law? Yes. As you approach this balloon, if you leave the balloon in place, you increase the likelihood of job loss, medical problems, all these things that happen at exactly the wrong time. Screw up your income and keep you from being able to refinance and you lose the house. Okay. That's what I don't want. Okay? Right now, everything's sitting pretty and sassy. Let's not do a bunch of little half % math and try to screw something up here. Let's get rid of this danger that you've signed up for in your life. This is nightmarishly suicidal. You've got to get this off your home before something happens and you're not able to. Right now, while you can, it's called get it while the getting is good, right? Yes. Man, that stuff, balloons scare me to death. Can you all tell? Oh, yeah. I hear the fear in my voice. It turns into anger.

Yeah. Oh, man, I can't stand it because these people get stuck. When we end up with them in financial counseling with one of our coaches is they're having to sit down because they are stuck and they lost a job or their sister got cancer or whatever. They've got all these income problems and credit problems and stuff's popped up or some A lot of identity theft thing, blew up their credit score. Now they can't refinance. Taking them six months to get it fixed, and they can't get refinanced in the meantime. All this other crap happens just exactly at the time you're doing that. It's just a disaster. Oh, yucko, yucko, yucko. Please Act like your hair's on fire and get rid of that thing. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and author of a brand new book that hits the streets today called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck I'm someone who's been there. You do need a copy of this book. It's available today anywhere great books are sold.

John is in Los Angeles. Hey, John, how are you?

I'm doing good. How are you today?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my situation, I'm trying to figure out the practicality of purchasing a home in or around the Los Angeles area. It's very, very expensive. You think? I think I do relatively well income-wise. What do you do?

What do you make?

So this year, I made $200,000. That's pretty good. Right around there. But even with that relatively high income, it still feels a bit out of reach. In 2024, I paid off all of mine and my wife's student loans were 100 % debt free.

Way to go.

Yeah, but that down payment still seems like a little far fetched. And even if that has achieved the monthly mortgage payments, honestly, not regardless of the interest rate, but it's going to be a lot. Because the fixer uppers out here run you about 850 or like 800 to 850.

And that's no palace.

Yeah, exactly. It's definitely a fixer upper. What do you do? I'm just trying to navigate.

What do you do for a living?

I am sales for a large Fortune 10 company.

Okay. Is it tied to Los Angeles?

No, it's not.

Okay. So why Los Angeles?

Sorry. Let me rephrase that. My career is in Los Angeles. I'm directly correlated with my territory out here.

Oh, okay. That's what I was asking. So it is tied to Los Angeles?

Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay.

Well, I don't think The numbers that you're giving are wrong. I think you've realistically assessed this, and it's like, Well, crap. I thought $200,000 a year was a lot of money. It's like, Golly, this is weird. That's the way it feels. It feels that way to me every time I hear it, and it's still the reality of the math is what you're giving me. I think everything you said, I think, was the truth. I don't think there was anything as exaggerated or fatalistic or anything there. The thing is, how old are you guys?

I'm 24.

Okay, all right. That's good news. Okay. The 200,000 includes your wife's income?

No, she stays at home with a child.

Okay. All right. So it doesn't include her income. Okay, good. All right. That's your household income. You're doing really well, man, for 200K. You're killing it. Yeah. You got two or three options or ways of looking at this, and that is, one, you could say, Okay, I'm in Los Angeles for a while. This is my adventure. Probably not going to spend my life here. If I rent for three or four years and see how the career thing goes, that's not the end of the world. Then you end up moving to a market that you can actually afford, and hopefully you can make the same money somewhere. Okay, that's one thing that could happen. Okay, another thing that could happen is you say, Okay, I'm going to scratch and claw, and I'm going to buy this little dinky house for $800,000 or $900,000. It's a fixer upper, to at least get my foot in the door, and then at least I own something, right? At least then as prices go on up, I get to ride the wave instead of being crushed by the wave, right?

Right.

You Sacrifice homeownership being like a dream come true. Instead, it's like barely getting in.

Even still, you'll still have to embrace a bit of a timeline on this. Just knowing that going in so you can set realistic expectations on both sides, what you'll get for the money and how long it'll take you to get the money to get it.

That's an okay strategy as well. It might be two or three years. That's not the end of the world. The other strategy is to start thinking about, Okay, where do I want to live, where I can buy a piece of real estate? Because I can't buy a piece of real estate in Los Angeles. Because you literally live in one of the easily top five most expensive cities in the The world.

Just realistically speaking, you're making 200,000 between you and your wife. Can you guys live on half that? Can you live on 100,000?

Yes, so we can. But the 200,000, I do want to specify is before taxes.

I'm talking round numbers with you.

If you start chunking somewhere around 100 grand away, though, you'd have 300 grand away in three years. That's what she's saying.

Yeah. We can live on half that.

Because that's what you're looking at. Again, I'm round numbering this. I'm just plugging it in, so I'm looking at it with you. But if you commit to a three or four year journey on this and do what Dave said, I definitely think that's worth it. Because again, you're getting your foot in the door and you're climbing the ladder at that point, the real estate ladder.

I don't think the LA real estate is bad. I think it's excellent. It's just really expensive. It's just really expensive. Is that something?

For sure. Also, my career is here, and I could see make a lot of positive career growth in this area. It's just that mental battle with, well, is it practical to stay?

It's practical to stay for a while. It might not be your 10-year dream career, though.

Yeah.

It might be. It's okay if it is, and if you got a lot of growth. That's the other thing. If your career continues to hockey stick, I mean, dadgum, dude, you're 24, you're killing it to 200 grand. That's amazing. You're stud. Okay, so What if you went to 300 and then 400? Well, these numbers all start to change real fast, right? Very quickly.

That's right.

I don't know what your comp schedule is or what this thing looks like on your career, but you're an impressive young dude. I know that.

I got to believe he's making more in three to four years from now.

I think he is. I think also that you've done a very dispassionate, logical... There's no shaking your fist at the sky.

Just looking at it for what it is.

I'm mad. This is not fair. There's none of that tone in what you're doing, which is the first clue that you're actually going to make it, probably.

Yeah, he wasn't emotional.

No, he was just speaking. But there's no like, This isn't fair. It's like, we get that a lot. But I understand it's not fair, but your feelings don't... They don't care about. Your mouth doesn't care about your feelings. Thank you. That's the thing. I think you're a sharp young dude. I think you're going to get there. I would just sit tight, start saving some money, and just monitor your career and monitor the market and save like a crazy man and get your foot in the door.

What you said just then is so, so true because, yeah, he wasn't emotional, he wasn't whining. But a lot of people, they do. They look at the numbers and it feels overwhelming to them, so they don't even start, Dave. But if you just start putting aside- Or worse, they ignore the math and go buy something that crushes them. Oh, even worse. Crushes them. Even worse.

Because it's just not fair. So homeownership is not reachable with reasonable. Ramsey is not reasonable. Oh, crap. They ain't getting to do with Ramsey. Just start. It's got to do with you.

Just start putting aside.

I've already got my house. It's not getting to do with me. It's got something to do with you. So what are you going to do? Are you going to crush yourself because you had a little temper fit on the candy aisle and buy something you can't afford? That drives me nuts. Please don't do that. He's the opposite end of the spectrum. This young stud, he's got it going on now, like this guy. He's going to win.

When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again, it can feel like you're losing your mind. But you're not alone, and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It turns out money is emotional, and no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck. Until now, I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramsey solutions. Com/store.

That's ramsey solutions. Com/store. Mike's in San Diego. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Mike? I didn't push the button. Is that what you're saying? All right. I didn't push the button. There it is. Thank you. Goodness, you'd think I'd know how to do this by now after 40 years. Hey, Mike. How are you?

Hey, I'm doing great. How are you?

Well, I'm challenged right now, but other than that, what's up?

Well, I had a question, honestly, not similar to the guy before, but I'm 25 years old. I live in San Diego, also work a job in software sales And about 18 months ago, I started a side hustle that's taken off a bit. And I'm really looking for some guidance, I guess, from an entrepreneurial perspective on when I should maybe consider doing that full-time versus trying to rack up as much income as I can.

Good for you. So what's it doing? How much you're making on the side hustle?

So I started it in summer 2024. Didn't really do much the first six months, maybe like 5,000 in profit. Last year, we did 68,000 in profit. Good for you. And then this year, I think we'll do about 100,000, maybe 120.

What do you make at your day job?

About 175. Way to go. I'm in software sales, so some years it's 150, some years it's 200. It can just vary.

Yeah. So you're 25, and between the two, you're making 300 grand. You're killing it, man. Proud of you. Thank you. Okay. So how much time When does the side hustle take?

That's the thing. It takes me probably, I want to say 20 to 30 hours a week. My average day looks like working on the business maybe from about 5: 00 to 08: 00 PM. I'm fortunate enough to where I work remotely to where I can just log off and start working on that. That's awesome.

Are you married?

I'm engaged. Okay. All right. Wow. Yeah.

It's ideal right now. I mean, you're just stacking cash.

Yeah, pretty much. I've been able to sock a good amount of money away.

If you worked double the hours, would you make double the money? Is it that cut and dry?

Not exactly. The business is very online-focused. It's very dependent on Facebook, actually.

Essentially, that's- What do you think the shelf life of the new business is? How long do you think it's going to last before some platform takes you out or a shift in technology or something?

Yeah, that's a good question. Honestly, I'm pretty optimistic about Facebook and the way they're investing. I would say that, I mean, conservatively 10 or 15 years, but who knows?

I'm 100% sure that Google and Facebook are going to do one thing, take care of Google and Facebook. They don't give a crap about you. I can promise you. You need to be defensive about your platform usage and don't think that they're on your team. Because about the time you get something figured out, they turn it and screw you. We've been playing with these guys for 15 years since they started. I've been doing it from the time back when SEO was a thing and does not even exist anymore. So by the time you get it figured out, they figure out a way to monetize everything you've been doing, and then they flip it on you. I'm not cynical. I'm just telling you, you need to be realistic about your platform life blood. It ain't 15 years. There's no way. Not without you iterating substantially. Now, it doesn't mean you're going out of business, but you're not going to do it the way you're doing it, but probably 36 months, and then they're going to change something. Okay, cool. That's still awesome, man. Get off my entrepreneurial cynicism. All right. Is there a reason to quit?

No, I just feel So that if I had more time and energy to put into the business, I could scale it nonlinearly, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. And I believe you. I think you're right.

We have a lot of systems in place that run the business itself, but it is a volume game. Yeah, sure. So I think with more time and attention, I could get it to a point to where it's making more.

Then you'll hit the point of diminishing returns curve on their time as well. But I do think you could make... I think you could make... I don't even know what you're doing, but it just sounds like the trend line on this. You could make what you're making now if you went full-time.

I'm just curious on where your passion lies. Did you start the side hustle out of money, or I just really like this field I want to see if I can do something in it and possibly make some money. Which one are you more passionate about?

It's just honestly a passion thing. It's actually adjacent to my career. I'm actually doing the things that a lot of my clients are doing in my career side. And honestly, I just listen to them talk about what they were doing right and what they were doing wrong, and it inspired me to do my own version of it.

So if you jumped to it, you'd be fulfilled.

There's no ethical breach in that at all.

No, it's completely independent from what they're doing. It's just a variation of it.

I got you. Just best practices. Yeah. Okay.

Pretty much, yeah. So it sounds like to you, it would be my dream to really be able to do it full-time. That's awesome.

But I definitely understand what you're doing. When are When are you getting married?

Next year, maybe 13, 14 months.

What does she make?

I talked to her into helping me with the business about six months ago, which is why we saw such strong growth.

Is she doing that full-time?

Yes.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. She was working as a web designer, and I told her she wasn't She was doing it like contract freelance work, wasn't enjoying it too much. I said, Hey, I'm really time locked here with my job, but I really believe in this, and I think you have the skills set.

What could you hire someone to do what you're thinking about doing? What would it cost you in addition to her?

I'm not sure. I think that I've had experiences hiring people on Fiverr where they'll take what you're doing and try to compete against you with it. I'm not sure we have the capital to out and hire somebody like W2.

Yeah, you do. You got 100 grand.

Well, I was going to say, you paid yourself that. Did you pay her anything or that's part of the 100 grand?

Yeah. So right now, we're basically splitting it. So she's getting 50, and then I pay myself 50 and run the expenses out of that.

All right. So I love where you are. I love what you're doing. I love that you're thinking about it, logically. I think you guys are a power couple. So there's not a screw up. There's no check the box in the stupid column here. None of that's going to happen, okay? It's only a question of what you want to do and what is best, all right? So one idea that popped into my head, if I were sitting exactly where you are, and I'm very entrepreneurial, and I'd rather work for myself than anybody, Okay, because I'm too contrary to work for somebody. So one idea that popped in my head is, let's just burn the midnight oil until we get married.

I love that idea.

And just crank this thing. See how high a stack of cash. Let's fill a bedroom full of cash over there. Just make some money. Okay? And during that time, you can start to see what some of the trend lines are and the platforms you're using. If your prediction or my cynicism, which one is more accurate. If you do that and you turn it on, you come back from the honeymoon and you just made 200 grand on this thing and you want to punt the day job and go on, then go on. If the whole thing crashes in two or three years, you got a bedroom full of money and you made some money and you could go do it again. You go do something else. The beautiful thing about this is you can land like a cat on carpet when you're done because you've got the skills.

Yeah, honestly, I love that idea. I've really been going back and forth between, I got a good job, I want to keep it. People tell me it's a dream job, but also- You can get it again.

You know how to do that job.

It'll be waiting there if you ever want to go back to it. You're at a great time of life where you can do exactly what Dave said. You're not married yet. You guys are in that time of adventure where it's like, you want to go? I want to go. Let's go do it.

Let's scramble here.

We'll eat peanut butter and jelly stand. We'll do whatever we need to do.

Let's go crazy. Let's make hay while the sun shines, baby. After the marriage, quit. If you make a bunch of money. You got to be making about what you're making or more. But if you are, then quit. The downside of both of you doing this is if goes sideways, your whole freaking deal goes sideways. Your lack of diversification on your income base is a little scary, but it's okay. I think you got the margin to handle all of it, and I think you're on top of it.

Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar Livestream event on January eighth. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free livestream at everydollar. Com logan. Com/livestream.

Logan is with us in Louisville. Hi, Logan. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I am 26 years old, and I bought my first house last May whenever I was 25 years old. I'm realizing I probably made a very big mistake because I bought it on a 30-year mortgage with 5 % down at 6. 5 % interest. And I'm wondering what I should do.

Okay. Is the home affordable?

It is. It was $220,000, and the mortgage is $1,623 a month.

And what's your household income?

I make $65,000 a year last year. I work at a major auto factory in Louisville. Sure. I will be eventually making $100,000 a year in about a year and a half or two years or so, according to our union contract. I'm basically wondering- Are you married? I've never heard... No, sir. I do live with my girlfriend, however, because she had to drop out of college, and her parents aren't really supporting her financially, and she didn't really have another option other than she had either to move in with me or it was be homeless. So I went ahead and moved her in. And so she has about $10,000 in student loan debt, and then I additionally have about $12,000 on an auto loan. Okay.

Well, there's no we. She has her life, you have your life. You're not married. And so you have $12,000 in student life. You have $12,000 car payment, and you have a house payment that is tight right now. Okay. So I don't think I would do anything. I think I'll sit right there. What I would do is as your income goes up and you need to clear this car debt off, when those two things happen and these interest rates continue to go down, I would just refinance. When you refinance, put it on a 15.

Okay. But you're going to get down sub-fives probably this spring. Okay. So refinance the 15.

When you can afford it. When you're ready. I don't know when your income is going to go up. You can't afford it right now.

Correct.

Yeah. So when do you think you're going to be making the move from 60 towards 100?

So we go up on a yearly basis. I'll be getting about a 10% raise in May.

Okay. It's probably going to be the following May before you start talking about refinancing. You're probably in Coast mode.

Okay. Then I actually have a lot in my retirement account, and then I've got some in an index fund that's not in a retirement account.

Pay off your car today.

What's in the index fund?

Almost 14,000.

Pay off your card. Pay off your card today.

Pay off the truck completely.

Yes, today.

Okay, got it. I was thinking you were going to say that.

Yeah, and then let's build our emergency fund, and As far as the house, we're going to sit with the 30, and we're going to sit with the 6. 5 until the rates drop and your income comes up and you can afford to refinance. It's not going to kill you. We're talking about 18, 24 months here, and you'll be okay. Like you said, it isn't what I would have signed you up for, but you're there now, and there's no panic in these numbers. There's nothing here that's just destroying you or something.

It's just a good lesson learned for next time you want to make a large purchase to wait till you're in a better position.

Don't be combining finances with girlfriends, only with wives.

Yes. I'm not even going to get into that. There were some things there. Yes, there were some things there.

Some things there. Breton, Is in San Antonio. Hi, Britain. How are you? How did, sir? How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

I'm in a little bit of a family pickle. I have a brokerage account that was gifted to me for college graduation that has about 13,000 in it. But based off the previous gentleman, you just told him to liquidate stuff and pay off the car today. I have a $7,000 car loan for my wife's car. I have a $25,000 car loan for my truck, and I have about 40K in student loans, putting us at about, what's that? 70, 75,000 human of debt. And my gross income is about 100,000 a year. My wife and I have been married four years. We got a two-year-old, and we got a baby in March.

You all are normal. And you figured out normal is not fun.

No, I'm tired of thinking, Oh, yeah, I make 100 grand a year, and I'm ready to go.

I'm broke. And I'm broke. Yeah. Right.

So you got your first piece of advice, which is to liquidate that non-retirement savings that gets you the 13,000. So her car is paid off, and you're able to put a little onto the truck. What does she drive? I'm just curious.

She drives a 2019 Jetta that's, I don't know, probably got 70,000 miles on it. It's in a really good shape.

What about your truck? How good a shape is that in?

It's in really good shape. It's a 24 Silverado. I bought it with 2,500 miles on it with a little gift from her grandpa to really knock down my payment. Okay. 500 bucks a month for it.

Only 500 bucks.

That's a lot.

I thought it was great for basically a brand new truck, but I mean, hindsight, it's 2020. But I drive a lot for work, so I depreciate it. I've got... I put on like, 36,000.

It means you're destroying the value of a brand In a truck. You are.

Listen, you're going to have to put the pedal to the metal on this debt. You have a great income, so that's good. But what's going to get you is these 40,000 of student loans. It's easy to let that sit around and collect dust. But this is the time to kick it up into high gear, I want you and your wife to get into every dollar. Have you jumped in there yet?

I have not jumped into every dollar, but we use Rocket Money, and we sat down and did our financial planning for the year.

There's the problem right there. I'm playing with you, but I'm going to give you a budgeting app that's actually going to help you, and it's not going to sell you debt products along the way. So Christian will pick up and make sure that you get every dollar. And I mean it. I'm not just trying to be funny towards a competitor. I'm saying that if you go into Every dollar, their goal is to get you out of debt. Yes, ma'am. The other budget you're using, that's not their goal. Their goal is just to keep you around as a customer. Later, they can sell you debt. We want to get you out, and therefore in the app, it's going to ask you things about your life, and you're going to be to plug that in, and then it's going to walk with you. You called in to us to talk to us for a hot two or three minutes. It's going to give you the advice we would give you step by step along the way so that you stay focused and actually get this done.

Very good. Bobby is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Bobby, what's up? Hey, how are you all doing? Great, man. How can we help?

I have a weird question I haven't heard before on your show. I have a minor son who received a $15,000 settlement from an accident he was in. And I'm court-ordered to put it into a federally insured bank until he reaches maturity, which is in 12 years. And I'm struggling to pick where to put it because Returns are trash.

Which means the court is stupid, and the court generally is stupid. That's what happens when lawyers do financial planning. Lawyers that become judges that are stupid. That I mentioned this is stupid, But you're still court-ordered. You're court-ordered. It's aggravating us crud. You can't do what you should do with it, which is put it in a decent growth stock mutual fund. That's terrible. You can't do it. You're going to be in a high-yield savings account at your local credit union or bank that's got federal insurance, and you're barely going to keep up with inflation.

Exactly. I mean, everything I'm seeing is less than one %.

Oh, no, you can get three right now. You can get some high yield savings up around two and a half or three. But- It's still a crime. It's still a crime. It's still a crime. But the whole thing was this kid got hurt and somebody's trying to take care of him here, and then the judge is an idiot.

Well, I mean, the good thing is he doesn't currently have We have some sizable money for him and our daughter currently, but it would be really nice to add this to it. Yeah, I would.

I'm just asking, is there a way that you could get a lawyer in order to change that?

Yeah, but I'm not sure. If you went from two to 10 or 2 to 12, you make 10%, you make 1,500 bucks, I won't pay the lawyer. So it's not worth it. It's just the stupid law. I mean, it's not even the law. It's just a judge that doesn't know what the crap they're doing. They thought you were going to take it to Vegas and put it on red. Let it run. Yeah, run it. That's what they thought. But no, that's sad. You're just going to have some money parked there and kids are going to have 15 grand. It's not going to grow much.

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home.

It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming.

Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramsey solutions. Com/realestate. That's ramsey solutions. Com/realestate.

Proverbs 14: 15 says, The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps. Albert Einstein said, We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them. There we go. Anthony is in Orlando. Hi, Anthony. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. I came I wanted to ask you about a financial decision I'm going to make. So me and my fiance are having a baby together, and the baby comes here in two months. She She currently has a car payment that is 26 grand, and it's roughly $800 or more a month. And we're deciding whether to try to refinance it. And I looked it up and everything and looked into it a little bit more. And it's that she said she owes around only 17 for the car, and then the rest is mainly dealership fees and coverages and stuff. And I was wondering if it would be necessarily a good idea to refinance it and then just attack it and pay it off.

What do you make, sir?

I make roughly 30 grand a year.

What does she make, sir?

I'd say maybe 18, 20 a year. Okay. All right.

You guys are 24?

23, yes, sir.

23. Close. Okay. All right. Can I love you enough to tell you the whole thing? Will you allow me to do that?

Yeah. Okay.

If I were your age or you were my son, who's older than 23 now, and you were to ask me this question, here's what I would tell you to do, okay, in detail. There's a lot of reasons for this, and I'll give you the reasons, too, okay? But the first thing I would do is get married by Friday. Okay? Because you don't need to be doing financial transactions and babies with people you're not married to. It does not lead to prosperity and does not lead to a wonderful life. The data on this, there's piles of research that show that this is a really, really good suggestion. Okay? So I'm meddling in your business. Okay, I want you to get things in the right order from this point forward. So get married by Friday and then sell the car. You can't afford the car. You guys don't have any money. You don't make much money, and you have a brand new baby coming, and you're so broke you can't see with an $800 payment. It's killing you, isn't it, man? Yeah. You got to sell this car. So call or have her call and get the payoff number on the car, what it takes to pay it off today, and then find out what the Kelly Blue Book value of the car is.

I hope you can sell it for enough to get out of it. I hope she's not upside down in it. For that matter, since you're her new husband by Friday, I hope you're not upside down in it because you're going to be joining this party. But you guys got this thing is a weight around your neck during what should be with a baby on the way in a new marriage, the happiest time of your life. This car is a nightmare. Refinancing it doesn't get rid of it. It's got to go away and then get you the cheapest something that you can drive that will run and start your life off like broke people like I did and Sharon did and Jade did and Sam did, and most of the people listening did. That's where that song, We ain't got money, honey, but we got love. That's where that comes from. Okay? You start with that, and then you start working on your careers, and both of you get your income up because both of your jobs sucks. Let's get our income moving. Then we start talking about buying a little better car, a little bit of car.

But we're doing this as a couple with a new baby. That's a wonderful gift. Let's move forward. Those are the things that will cause you prosperity. There There's a whole piece of literature out there, folks, a whole piece of research out there that's done multiple times in multiple different veins that talks about what's called the marriage advantage. For instance, males live seven to nine years longer that are married than unmarried males. Just an advantage. Females live on average five years longer that are married. That's the physical one of the physical aspects of it. People survive cancer at a 20% higher rate that are married. Isn't that weird? There's all kinds of data out there on this stuff. The net worth of someone in their mid-30s at 35 years old, and this is not me talking to you, Anthony, this is me talking to everybody out there. The net worth of someone in their mid-30s right now is 10 to 11 times higher for a married male than an unmarried male at 35 years old. That's at 35 years old. That's interesting. It's crazy, you all.

That's very interesting.

It's got to do with a lot of different factors, but one of them is that we're joined and we're committed. We're not got one foot in a boat, one foot on the dock. It changes the dynamic of how you do your career, of how you do relationships, of how you do money, and it changes the whole thing. That That makes sense. You're always going to get that at Ramsey, by the way. We're always going to be proponents. We're going to tell you every time because we love you, to get married.

Yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot of research out about the quality of your relationships and how they affect your longevity, how they affect your mental health. It only makes sense that it would affect your money in a similar way.

Absolutely. It affects it dramatically. It affects your income.

Absolutely.

Oh, man. The amount of money that a lady makes more that is married in her 30s than an unmarried lady. Really wild. That's very interesting. The interesting dynamic of that is that sometimes the unmarried lady is saying, I want to be independent. Isn't it? Sure. It ends up on average making considerably less on average.

It's interesting.

I don't know exactly what that is. The guys make more, too, by the way. But it's a dynamic in our culture and the way people where our neurosystems work and where our relationships work, and then it plays out in the math. That's what it comes down to. That would be my advice to you, sir. Since you allowed me to love you and be direct, I'd be married by Friday. I'd get this car on the market and get it sold, and both of you look for better jobs. Let's get you up there where you're making a little bit more than $40,000 or $50,000 a year between the two of you, below average household income and a baby on the way. Let's get this thing moving, buddy. You can do this. You're not a dumb guy. You can do it, and you're not afraid of hard work either. You can do this, and you called a show like this. I know you can do it.

They're just getting started. They can do it.

Yeah, absolutely. They can do this. There's great hope. And guess what? If you've done anything out there that you wish you hadn't done, bought a house, bought a car, whatever it is you wish you hadn't done, a lot of it can be undone or a lot of it can be survived. Just don't keep repeating it. I've about decided at my age, since I'm old now, that people say, Well, you're wise. I'm saying, Yeah, you know where wisdom comes from? Bad judgment. Yes. Mistakes. Doing stupid butt stuff. The only thing I have done right is I seldom do the same stupid thing. I find new ones to do.

You find new things to do.

So you're creative. But I seldom do the same stupid thing. If you get a whole bunch of stupid things in your past that you never do again, then people start calling you wise. Yeah. And so that's really what it comes down to. A whole bunch of things I avoid doing now that all of a sudden it makes you look like you're smart.

It's a success thing. You're standing on a pile of failures.

Exactly. It's exactly what it is. Good point. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.