Transcript of Dwelling On Past Mistakes Won't Benefit Your Future Growth

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Normal is broken, common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman alongside the fabulous, the incomparable Jade Warshaw, and we're going to team up. She'll take lead on the money question. Obviously, all the money questions, but how about I'm burned out. I don't have any life balance. We just did a recent survey and found out that those are the two number one issues among professionals, and those have financial ramifications. We'll dive into some of those as well. Come one, come all. Derek in Montana is going to start us off today. Derek, how can we help?

Ken, Jane. It's great to be with you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's going on today?

Well, basically, the gist of it is I'm trying to find out or figure out, if you will, if maybe I should just file bankruptcy and start all over. Got myself into some pickles here.

Okay. Give us a picture. What are you facing?

So So we started a business. My wife and I started a business here, local, where we're at, was going okay. And then we decided to try to enact or start up a something for the community, like an arcade, and brought in some people to help us out. They had the games, we had the space, and so we were putting that together. We encountered some issues with the way things were operating, so we thought we would branch out and get our own equipment, and things just have not turned out to come to fruition.

So what have you spent on getting this arcade up and running?

So right now, we're about $25,000 in debt on just the arcade.

Okay. And how long have you been in this business venture? Has it been a year, six months, more?

We are about a year and nine months.

Okay. What's the issue? Is it people just aren't showing up? Is it the prices are too low, but when we raise them, it doesn't work out? What's the problem?

People just have not shown up. So we were unaware of some of the startup costs from the bank to obtain the debt. And so when we went to go sign the papers, it was, by the way, here's some additional fees that need to get paid. And instead of going back to underwrite the additional fees to make sure that we were going to be able to make it happen, I said, I'm sure it'll be fine. I can figure it out. And so that ended up chewing up all of our marketing and advertising budget And so I started out behind the ball on it and tried to play catch-up the whole time. And it just never happened.

How much was the advertising and marketing budget? How much did you see yourself spending per month or whatever it was that this debt ate up?

About 2,000, initially.

Are you in a high trafficked area or tucked away where nobody knows where you are?

So the space is in a very high traffic area. Or was, I should say. So we closed down the location, moved out the games to a new location. Hopefully that pays off, and then just reducing the overhead. So for the last year, we have just dumped all of our personal income, my wife's personal income on self-employed, so I don't have any, all of her W-2 into maintaining and keeping things afloat, trying to anyways.

What you mean when you say her income, you mean any margin that you guys have above all your personal bills. Then you're taking the surplus, for lack of a better word, and you're pouring that into the business? Is that what I'm understanding? Yes. Okay. How much is the equipment worth? All the games themselves?

If I were to sell it right now? Probably maybe 10, 12.

So half?

Yeah, roughly.

Can I ask a quick question before we keep going down that trail? Because I do want to keep going down that. Do you honestly now in your heart of hearts, after you've seen how this has played out over the last over 12 months, the 2000... Because here's where my mind goes, Ken. If you had a $2,000 a month ad spend or marketing spend, and that is now eaten up in fees that you didn't know we're going to be there. My first intuition would be like, Well, there's nobody at the arcade. How can I go out and earn this money elsewhere so that we can get our ad spend up so that we can get people in the doors? Which me to ask, do you believe that even if you had spent that 2,000, you wouldn't have been able to get those folks in the door? Is that what you're realizing, or do you just not know?

I don't know. I do believe that with the ad spend and being able to put signage on the building and the things that we were not able to do, I think that was a major impact.

Oh, there's no sign on the building?

I couldn't get the sign. It was not appropriately.

Well, but see, I think we're majoring on the miners.

I'm just trying to see if there's something here that's salvageable.

Yeah, the equipment. Now, again, you may have a different take. I'm just sitting here listening.

Well, there's no sign on the building, so nobody was going to go up in there.

I know, but he's in a new location. So it's not even in a high traffic location anymore, correct?

So we put the games in a separate business that has traffic that is separate in and of itself, a bowling alley restaurant type of establishment.

So you're renting them? You're renting them to these places?

We're doing what is a profit share. So now I'm just getting a cut off of whatever they make.

Oh, gosh.

But you can't make a living on it. You cannot make a living on this, yes or no.

No. My hope for this is that we can just make enough to pay the payment for the debt for those gains.

And that's what I'm bringing back up. I think I want to Can you come back to the question at hand that you asked, should you file bankruptcy? I don't think so. I think you can pay the 25 off.

What's your wife's- It's not just that 25.

What's that?

It's not just that 25.

What's your total debt amount?

A I'll try 68,000.

68,000?

Yes.

All right. I'll defer to Jade. This is not a viable business. So, yeah, at this point, if you can get your money back on those machines over time and pay this debt off and then shut it down. But you need a full-time job. I'll just throw that out there.

Yeah, I agree with Ken. At the 25,000, I'm looking... 25,000 in one year, I'm thinking there's something that can be saved here, possibly. But now, what you've told me with the 68,000, I think that you need to cut your losses here. What's your wife's income?

She makes about 75 a year.

Okay. Now, this business debt, is that your only debt, or do you have other I'll call, personal debt to add to the pile?

So the arcade is roughly about 25 in debt. I have my other business debt. That was my main source of income. And Because of the issues that we had with the arcade, I took my focus in- Okay, I'm going to cut you off because we're running out of time.

If the total of your all debt altogether is 68,000, like I think that it is, you need to pick up a your full-time job yesterday, take your wife's income, and you're going to pay this off as quickly as possible. You're not going out to eat. You're not doing anything. You're selling a car if you need to to clear this out very quickly.

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Let's go to Megan, who's joining us now in Pittsburgh. Megan, how can we help today?

Hi, thanks for having me. Sure. I have a 401k loan, and I'm not sure how to proceed, just given some different options. I just learned that I do have a cash out option. For example, the 401k is about $30,000. The loan is $15,000. After all the math and everything, if I were to walk away from it and cash out my 401k, I would walk away with that loan being paid, and they would cut me a check for $11,000.

You don't want to do that.

Jade will explain.

I want to make a smart decision.

Well, let's start there. I literally cut you off because I'll let Jade explain why, but you do not want to take this option.

Well, number one, you've made a mistake, which is okay. We all make mistakes, especially when we don't know better. When you took that loan pre-retirement, obviously, you were hit with a 10% penalty, and it's going to affect your income taxes, and you unplugged the investment. You unplugged the growth that has been accumulating. Knowing that, Let's not turn around and do the same thing again and unplug the rest of the investment just to get $11,000 back. Let's solve the problem that we made on accident, and let's solve it on purpose. If I were you, the $15,000 loan, I'd just pay it back. I'd pay it back because the thing with 401(k) loans is obviously they're tied to your employer. If for some reason you are fired, that loan becomes due, and it's got time period on at that point. Sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's more. That's why I don't like these hanging around. If you knew that, that might be why you're considering this. But I would not unplug the rest of my growth to get out of this faster. I'm sure there's some other fees around that. Let's look at your income and let's look at what we can actually do to get this thing knocked out.

Sure. Okay. What is your income?

140 household.

Okay. Is this 401(k) loan? I'm guessing it's not your only debt. It sounds like you got up against it. Tell me about your other debts.

We do have some consumer debt. It was due to fertility treatments. So it just racked up really quickly. We have a baby, so that's great. But racked up really quickly. So we have some consumer debt. We're looking at about 15k for the 401(k) loan, about 15K in credit cards. That's putting the medical stuff on it. We both have a car payment. Total on the cars is 20.

Tell me, break them down for me, the two.

Yeah, we both owe about 10 on each of our cars. Okay.

And that's it?

Other than that, student loan debt, we're looking at about 800 a month.

What's the total?

Balanced on that, I think we're at 45, if I recall correctly. Okay.

And is that it or is there more?

That's it.

Okay. The $140,000, is that just you or that's you and your husband combined?

Combined. Okay.

Yeah, congratulations on the baby. We've got to get through this. And I think with the cars, yeah, you're likely... It's best to just keep those and knock them out quickly. But I would... You've got the 15,000 on the 401k and 15,000 on the credit. Are the credit cards, is it one credit card or is multiples?

It's one.

Okay. Yeah, I'm going to... I would probably... I'm thinking about Ramsey verse, and I know that in the Ramsey verse, there's certain things that we move to the top of the list, things like IRS debt. A 401k loan, I'd probably move that right up there because of the implications on it. If you're in the chats and you disagree with me, you can let me know later. But I'd probably get into that pretty quickly.

Do you have any equity on the cars?

Yeah, we do.

How much equity? Each car?

Yeah. The last thing we got from Carvana or something, and I can go to Kelly Blue Book later, but my car is worth about 15. There's about 10 left on it. That's why, because we were working on the cars first. We might need to recircle. 15, and my loan is about 10,000. And then his is, it's right about the same, 14, 15, and there's about 10 left on it.

Yeah. And the reason I asked those questions is because if we can sell one of the cars, get a hoop, For a short season, I'm with Jade. Because of the precarious nature of this 401k loan, I would want to put that 15k back in there.

I really would. I would probably, since you have That since you have 15,000 on the credit cards and 15,000 on the 401k, I'd view those as interchangeable. Technically, you should do smallest to largest. I don't even want to ask you how stable your job is. But the point It's very stable. Let's just say the point is- It is stable.

It is stable.

Okay, great. Then let's do it- It's very stable, and I know the answer to the question, not to cut you off there.

If I were to leave, the payments would actually just come with me. It's not due immediately. I have vetted some of those questions. Good. So it would just continue on. Right. Which isn't great, but good to know.

Yeah, it is good to know. But the goal here is for you to knock this out as quickly as possible, and that's going to take some sacrifice on you guys' end. For a 1K loan aside, the debt in total is a problem. And so I'd be looking at ways that you can cut back your income. Have you guys gotten on a budget yet?

Yeah, we're in every dollar.

Okay, great.

What are those car payments?

Car payments are... His is about $3. 50. When we look at my notes, and mine is $182.

I'd be looking in there and saying, Okay, what's our margin? Since you're in it, do you know off the top of your head what your margin is?

About a thousand a month.

Okay. So the way I would look at this is I'd look at $1,000 a month and I go, Oh, my gosh, if I do it like this, it's going to take me five years. It's going to take me forever. So I'd reverse engineer that, and I'd do the math on that and say, I want to be done with this in two years, no more than two years. And then I would figure out with your husband, how much do we need to pay on this every single month in order for us to be done with the entire amount of debt in two years? Then the equation becomes if it's $2,000 or $2,500, you have to then say, Okay, how do we then go get this money? I feel like that's a better way to attack this. That way, everything's on your terms based on it just happening to you, you get to have real skin in the game and make a plan for what you want to happen and then go out and make that happen.

Yeah, absolutely.

Fair enough. So that's what I would do. I definitely would not take any of the options that you mentioned earlier that involve you clearing out the remainder of the 401k.

Yeah, this is very doable. Now, it's not going to be fun. I'm hinting around on the cars. I don't know if you're catching my hints with all these questions. But you guys are in a pretty It's a rare situation when we get calls where people actually have some equity. At this stage of the game, I wonder if it's not worth both of you selling your cars and buying two $5,000 cars. If that's the equity situation, if you can pay it off, if they're both worth that, that'd be something I would look at because that's going to free up some monthly money. That gives you that urgency to go, Okay, I want to get out of this quickly. If you've got equity in the cars, and I would double, triple check all that, and you can out of there and walk away with some cash and pay cash for two cars, listen, that propels you. And Jade, you could speak to this. That propels you into the intensity that I think you need to have to go, I don't love the fact that we just got rid of our car. And I know it's an extreme situation.

You know what? You get to be extreme as you want to be. And I'll push people towards the extreme because at the end of the day, you're going to get stuff done faster. I was writing an article today for one of these outlets, and I was saying how when Sam and I were getting out of debt, we did three very extreme things. Very extreme. We moved out of our apartment, moved into a townhouse, and got roommates. It took our rent from $1,200 a month to $600 a month. We sold off We were a two-car family. We sold one. It was a $34,000 H3, $435 a month payment, freed up $435. We didn't get a beater. Instead, we just became a one-car family. Then we sold off all of the furniture that was of our rooms to go alone. And instead, we bought an air mattress and slept on that. So very, very extreme, but it's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. And it's up to you how bad you want to get out of it and how long you want that sacrifice to last. You got to go extreme if you want to get out of it quick.

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All right, let's go to Providence, Rhode Island next. Mary joins us there. Mary, how can we help?

Hi, I I have a question. They're putting in low-income housing literally across the street from us, about 600 feet from our house. We still owe 150 in mortgage, but we got a really good I was still on this house five years ago because it was a direct sale, and we knew the folks that were selling it. We have some really good neighbors. My husband now just works 10 minutes from the house when he was before commuting. About an hour and a half. I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old, and we're planning on having another. We're just trying to figure out if we should move because if we move anywhere, it's we won't be able to afford it. Whatever we get on this house will likely be less. If we stay, from what I read, when Section 8 goes in about the housing market, the area loses about 40% of market value.

Yeah, okay. All right. Well, let's take a deep breath, because I would have all those same concerns that you have, legit concerns. But we have to parcel out the concerns versus the facts and see what the risk is. This is all about mitigating risk, right? What are your neighbors saying? Is anybody else as informed as you are? Are they more informed? What do we know?

More informed, some of us. We've gone to our town meetings, and basically the town voted no, but the state came in and overrode us and said, Too bad, you have to do it. Our neighbor has lived here, they're in their 60s, and they both grew up in the neighborhood, so they don't want to leave. Okay.

What is your house?

That's literally everyone in our street.

Have you gotten some legit real estate comps?

So a street is a similar size to us that was built. Our house was built in 2013, and there's an older house that just sold for almost 500, and we bought our house for 430.

Okay, but you only owe 150 on it.

But we only owe 150. Yeah, we owe 150.

One other thing I want to address, and it's not back and forth, but I do think it's important in this process to mention that you said something a few minutes ago that, well, if we move, there's no way we're going to be able to afford to live somewhere else. That's just simply not true. Now, you may have to move further than you want to, But I do think when you're making decisions like this, you can't be operating in really extreme falsehoods, okay? Because then you'll end up making a decision based on a false narrative. Do you understand You know what I'm saying and why I'm challenging you on that?

Yeah.

Because this may be the best option for you guys to move. I don't know that it is yet. But if it is, you can't have this mindset of, Well, we're just simply not going to be able to afford to go somewhere else. The state has unfortunately come in and put you guys in a pickle, and that stinks. But now we've got to make the best decision moving forward.

Right.

Do you have any information on how it's going to be get parceled out? Is it going to be a lot of units, or is it going to be spread out?

They're putting in 40 units on two acres. They're really congesturing our block. We said the town tried to go with 20, but the builder said, We need 40 because they don't pay. They don't usually end up paying their rent on time, so they're relying on states and federal subsidies.

Do you have a real estate pro?

No. Okay.

Ramseysolutions. Com. What is the actual website? So I give it correctly here. Team's going to help me out. We'll get it to you in just a second. What is it?

Okay.

I'm not hearing in my ear. Can you hear me? Okay. Ramseysolutions. Com/agent. Is that right? Okay. Sorry about that. I just didn't have that in front of me. Because here's the deal. I want you to get two or three opinions from some very successful real estate pros in your area. I mean, I'd have them out this week. I'm just going through my checklist, Jay. Jump on here. But I'm going, I want some pros who've been in your market for a long time and they're crushing it, and I'd get their opinion. Multiple opinions, 2-3 opinions, so that now we may realize we've got a little bit of time, or no, we need to get out in front of this and list this house right now. They're going to have a really good idea of what's going on in your real estate market. Because the last thing you want to do is put it up for sale, right? That's right. This thing, drag on, drag on, drag on, and you hurt yourself. Again, I have no idea, and that's why I want to stay real careful here about making some type of real strong recommendation on what you should do as to whether you list it right now or not.

But if you get some advice from three really good real estate pros, and they're all saying the same thing, they're going, I get out while the getting is good, I would do that and realize that I can reestablish myself. You got a lot of equity in this home. You got options. Jade, what else would you be thinking?

My biggest thing was the concentration of development and how many units per block. Is it going to be a thing where there's just a couple of single-family homes, or is it really going to be a high concentration? Obviously, a higher concentration could soften the market for you over time. That's the thing that I was worried about. I'm with Ken. I would get with somebody that's a professional, specifically in your area, that can give you more concrete information on what they believe the timeline, the best timeline would be.

Yeah, absolutely. Sorry that's happening to you. Let's go to Vince now in Denver, Colorado. Vince, how can we help today?

Hey, Ken and Jay. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I was wondering if it's okay for me to make a career move now. I'm married, have three kids, currently in law enforcement, making about $97,000 a year, and I want to become a journeyman lineman. Their starting pay is probably going to be about $50,000 to $60,000 per year. But after the four-year apprenticeship program, it's like $230,000 plus.

Man, I love that. It sounds awesome. So you're locked in for four years at $50,000 to $60,000?

So there's different steps within that four years. So there's step one, step two, all the way up to seven. Once you get seven, then you top out. And there's a 5 % increment starting from 60 % pay, 70 % pay of whatever the annual rate is for.

Okay, so I got confused somehow. So for four years, Give me your pay. Year one, if you make this move, you're making 97 now in law enforcement. Year one, you're making what as a journeyman?

Well, it'll be an apprentice. I'm sorry. Year one apprentice, I'm making a About 50 to 60,000.

Okay. Year two, what are you making?

Year two, then it bumps up to about 70 to 80, and then probably 80 to 90, and then so on and so forth.

Two thirty.

Every year, you get a $10,000 bond.

Do you guys have any debt?

No. So we only have our mortgage. That one is we have $343,000 left. We just recast it to lower our expenses.

What's your monthly payment?

That mortgage, $2,075.

What margin do you guys have in your budget after all the bills were paid right now?

Currently, right now, after everything is paid, we have about anywhere from $35,000 to $4,000 in margin.

Okay, fantastic. I'm assuming before you made this phone call, you ran the numbers on this new pay and what that would look like. Correct. Are you guys going to be struggling? I mean, is it stressful or is there going to be a There's enough margin where we're relaxed because we've prepared for this.

It'll definitely be a little tight the first year. The problem is, I don't know how long. You have to apply to become an apprentice, and that can take anywhere from 8-12 months.

Great. That gives you 8-12 months to stack up even more cash. What's your emergency fund right now? What's the actual amount in it?

We have $36,000 in our emergency fund.

Okay, so let's play this out. Let's say it takes 8-10 months before we even find out. If you start doubling down and putting more money in there, you could have a really fat emergency fund that would give you a ton of margin and sleep well in that first year. True or false? True. And your wife could do some things if she had to to make a little extra money. True or false?

True.

Would it be worth it all to make 230,000 and have that as your trade in the end? True or false? Very much. I'm telling you, I'm doing it. If I'm I'm doing it. But we prepare for it. It looks like you got 8-10 months to prepare for it, and your wife can come alongside and help. I think this is an absolute no-brainer. We step forward, step backward, I'd rather, to step forward.

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Restrictions apply. See boostmobil. Com/ramsey for details. Hey, if you're working the baby steps, the best in The fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's not just a budgeting app. It's great budgeting, but it is so much more... It's the full plan. All the baby steps, built in. It's like having Jade or myself or any of the your personalize, including Dave, with you inside this app. Total guidance, tons of great content, can track your progress, get personalized recommendations for you, and coaching that will help you free up more money. I'm telling you, it's phenomenal. All these new bells and whistles. It's like having one of us with you in the app. Start every dollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's get right back to our call. Zack is joining us now in Los Angeles. Zack, how can we help?

Hi, I'm 22 years old, and I have about $25,000 in debt. I'm currently on baby step two. I'm trying to figure out the best way to tackle all the debt that I'm in.

List it out for us. What is in your debt snowball?

Currently, it's about $600 in credit cards, $1,400 on a personal loan, and then the rest is a car loan that I'm handling.

Okay. What do you mean by handling?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to get the car off my hands because I know you guys don't believe in car payments, and I'm slowly realizing that it's strangling me.

What car is it?

It's a 2021 Toyota Corolla.

Okay. What's it worth?

I've had different evaluations. The dealer I bought it from, they offered me 16,000. And then a dealer probably 10 miles away from me offered me 17.

Okay. So that means private sale. You probably could break even on it, no? Is it 23,000? Is that what you owe?

I owe 22,500. Okay. Even better. And private sale I've seen, I've been offered about 19,000 for it.

Okay. How much do you earn? What's your income?

It ranges. I work retail, so it can be anywhere between like a thousand to twelve hundred every two weeks.

What do you mean retail? What is that specifically? What are you doing?

I work for Verizon inside of a Best Buy.

Okay. Do you have a degree in anything?

I'm currently in school trying to get my associates in business.

Okay. I got to tell you, how How old are you again?

Twenty-two.

Twenty-two? If I'm a 22-year-old and I have this debt, I'm actually going to just work like a maniac, and I'm going to get a much better job, and then I'm going to get a better second job, and then I'm going to look for any crazy projects on Craigslist or somebody in LA needs me to come move them or something like this. I'm making money hand over fist because this is very doable for you. You just have the $600 in credit card. You could knock that out by selling something you got right now. Then you got the $1,400 personal loan, and the rest is the car. So the truth of the matter is, I don't know that you have to sell this car. You could pay this car off if you got really intense. You're just not making enough money. I don't know how you're surviving, quite frankly, in Los Angeles making $2,400 a month. Am I right?

I'm in a struggle.

Are you getting ready to go to school? Are you getting ready? Are you trying to save up your time to go to school or go get some a certification? Why is it that you're working retail right now and not getting more hours?

Are you in college? Yeah.

I'm currently taking six classes at a community college.

Okay. I missed that part.

I'd press pause on those right now, too.

Oh, no. I have a different take on this. I mean, you could totally do what Ken is saying. If I were in your shoes. I mean, you make $24,000 a year driving a $23,000 car. And you're in Los Angeles, you're in school. I would get out of that car almost tomorrow.

I'm all for that, too.

I would get you a little clunker. I'd spend $3,000 and a little beater. I'd save that up right quick, as quickly as you can. I would do that. In my opinion, you don't need this car in your life right now, and you certainly don't need it around your neck. And once you do that, you can quickly pay off the credit cards and the personal loan. But the biggest thing of this, Ken, is I hope that you've learned your lesson that debt is not the way you want to go forward moving forward after this.

Yeah, definitely. I've figured out one of two ways to go about it. There's this ride sharing app called Turo, where basically people will pay you to rent out your car, and I can make the car payments doing that. No.

You don't have to.

Listen, you're running a business- Because the car is going down in value.

You don't have a time for that.

No, you need more money. I'm actually with Jade.

You need to do both. You need to get more money, and you need to offload this car.

You need more money because your financial problem, yes, you made a bad move on the car. You acknowledge it. We've stated that. You need more money. Right now, you spending any time in a community college for six hours of an associate's degree, I will tell you right now, and this will freak a lot of people out, and I really don't care, that is the worst thing you can do with your time right now. The amount of time you're spending on those classes, you need to be working and then get out of this debt, and then we can start to cash flow our way through community college. Those classes are going to be there for you. But you've heard the old phrase, time is money, I hope? Have you ever heard that?

Yes.

Bro, you need to be working. I'm with Jay. You can get out of this car, but I want you to understand what she suggested here. You literally are going to be upside down. You're still going to have to pay off that loan, whatever's left. Then you got to figure around how to get around out of town and all that stuff. So the best thing you can do right now is just buckle down and realize that you could pay this debt off by making a lot more money. I got to believe a guy who's willing, there's a way to make money in LA. True or false?

A hundred %. Well, let's go. Might I add something about schooling? Sure. I currently work 40 hours a week, but I'm taking all my classes online. I started the semester on Monday, and I'm already two months ahead on all my assignments because I just sat down in the middle of all of it.

All right, that's fine. I'm not going to die on that hill. But I'm making a bigger point that right now with a guy who doesn't have a professional plan and we're just taking six hours, I'm all for, again, extreme momentum to start something. But you can stay in the online class. That's costing you money.

How much does it cost you?

I'm doing financial aid, so I literally paid $40 for six classes.

Okay, fine. Listen, the advice remains the same. Ken is right. You need money. Money is the magical elixir for this problem. And then, yeah, in my opinion, it would behoove you to go ahead and move this car and drive something, spend $5,000. $3,000 is to get from upside down, the other $2,000 is to get a beater. And then from there, that frees you up to think, Okay, what am I doing? Because what are you doing with this community college degree? What's the path?

I'm trying to get into finance, or hopefully, if I could figure out some path to go on, maybe create my own business It's not a business.

Okay. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you as my gift, find the work you're wired to do. It's got the get clear assessment in it, and this is about 20 minutes. I want you to take the assessment. Will you do it? Sure. It's going to spit out A lot of great stuff. It's got an AI component to it. It'll give you potential pass and suggestions. But you need to get more clarity on what my long term could be so that it's not about giving a snappy answer, but the way you answer that tells me you need more clarity. The more clarity you have, the more confidence you'll have in every area of your life. But right now, and again, I'm going to give you that gift, so hang on the line. But right now, I'm telling you, it is all about cleaning up this mess. Jade's right. You didn't need the car, clean up the car. The rest of this stuff is easy. But what will solve your problems as a guy who's trying to figure out his direction in LA is margin. Jade, I love being in the big city.

I love being young and all that. But at this stage, it's like, we need more young people in these large cities going, I'll figure out the 15 and the 20 and the 30-year plan. Right now, while I'm here learning and bouncing around people, I don't I need a lot of social time. I need hustle time to learn how to... Because the social time will come. But we got a lot of young people. I'm not saying he's the guy. They get out of these big cities or whatever, and they're just bouncing around. And it's like, no, no, no. Get up early. Really stay late. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Let's clean up our financial situation.

Work around the clock. You don't have a family to come home to. No. You don't have any. You know what I mean?

That's all I'm saying. That's part of the grind. Yes. Not just, let's go live in the city and experience it all.

Well, you got to be there for a reason. What's the point? To network, to find connections, to get in there. You can do that while you're hustling. Yes, all simultaneously.

My goodness gracious. Let's go. Is it $1,200 every two weeks in LA?

Oh, thanks. That's less than ramen.

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Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

I I have a family member that owes me money. My question is, how can I make her start paying me?

We have a good relationship, and I don't want this to be something bad in between us.

Who's the family member?

My sister-in-law.

Your sister-in-law? Yeah. And she borrowed the money, or your brother did?

Brother?

No, I gave her the money.

It's your sister-in-law. So is it your wife's sister? Is that who it is?

Right.

Okay. Oh, your wife's? I'm sorry. I jumped. I made too many conclusions. That's what threw you off. I apologize.

No worries. So how much money are we talking about? Fourteen thousand. Fourteen thousand. And how did the request How did the request come in? Did it come in through your wife? How did this happen? Tell me more about how it transpired. Right.

So my wife, her sister, she passed, and And so a few months later, we were working on a venue for events altogether, everybody, the whole family. And so So she needed money for the something for the venue. And I talked to her and say, I'm going to give you the money. And well, I gave her the money, and that has been, what, eight years ago or so?

When you say you were working on an event with your family, is this a business? Is this a family business?

Yes.

Okay. And so you loaned her personal money to... This is an interesting thing. So you're working on an event for a family. What was the $14,000 for?

Was it- It was for rent. Rent for a couple of months or so.

Wait, wait, wait. Rent for the business or rent for her personal- Yes. Yes? No, for the business, for the venue. Okay. Is the business still viable?

No.

So the business failed.

Correct. It was her business or it was you all's family business?

I was not too involved because I had my own job, my own thing. It was my wife with her and the other sister. Got it. Her brother. So basically, everybody on her side.

Understood. My wife's side. Understood. And this is eight years old now, and you're calling us, and you're asking us what advice we should give you about getting your money back from your wife's sister? That's taken eight years, and I'm sure we've talked about it in the eight years time. Yes? We've talked about this.

Yes.

I don't know that I got any advice. I got to tell you, you're between a rock and a hard place, my friend.

Yeah, I don't think it's happening. Plus, it was a business that your wife was part of. So it's almost like your wife's dead. If she was part of the business and the money was used to pay the business rent.

Acquiring minds want to know what your wife thinks about this debt.

No, she passed.

I am so sorry. I missed that. I'm sorry. Your wife passed?

Your wife passed? Right. My wife.

Heresy's doing.

Yeah.

My wife passed.

I am so sorry, my friend. We did not catch that detail. Did you hear that? I did not hear that. I didn't. Okay, I am so sorry. So your wife is no longer with... Okay, I am so sorry. Correct.

Good heavens. That's why in order to make the business happen, she came to me and I said, Okay, I'll help you.

You're grieving, too.

So let's do this together. And I gave her the $14,000. I see. And then three years later, four years later, her husband passed.

Oh, no.

And so I let her go. I talked to her again and said, Okay, listen, I'm going to Let's talk about the death next year and give you some time to grieve and to get on your feet, all that. So this is it right here now.

So what happens? There's part of me that... I'm with Ken, I think you're never going to get this back, but I just want to know, when you mention it to her, what does she say?

Yes, I'm working on it. Give me some time. When I'm working on it, something like that.

Are you asking for a lump sum, or what are you asking for from her?

No, just a payment plan. One time, I sat down with her and I talked to her about that, Hey, this is something that I have in my mind. Give me at least $1,000 per year. We're not even talking about interest here.

You're like... Folks call in here all the time, and they have a debt that They weren't able to pay, and it goes to collections. It goes to collections because the vendor basically realizes we're not going to get anything, and it's not worth our time. Collections will get whatever they can get for it, and they charge it off, whatever. That's you right now. The likelihood of you getting this money is very, very, very slim. So your choices are, you could try to make a deal, literally, and say, Give me what you have, and we'll call it clear, like you would with a collections agency. You could try that. Or you could just say, You know what? This woman lost her sister. She lost her husband. She doesn't have any money. And you could just let it go. But either way, between those two, I can tell you, number three, you're not getting $14,000 from her.

Not in lump sum. And I'm with you. I think it's a long shot. I'm sitting here going, Okay, all right, I want to do my best here to serve him. I'm going, What would I do? And I think I would sit down and I go, Look, I I know it's been tough for you. I had my own loss in this deal. I helped you out of the goodness of my heart. But gosh, this is eating away at me. Can we make some consistent commitment to do something? Do you have anything you can sell? The problem is she probably needs the money. But I would at least go, Do you have something you can sell? Can we work together on this or else I'm going to have to write this off emotionally? I think that's the only thing we do. I don't think a payment plan is... That feels weird.

The truth is, it's just as much your mistake as it is hers, because borrowing money between family members is a mistake. It's not a good move. So it wasn't a good move on your part to do that, and it's not a good move on her part to not pay the money she said she would pay back. So it's just a rock in a hard place. I'm sorry that- Are you in financial trouble?

It can help.

Not too bad, no.

Okay. Well, let me say this because we're winding We're running up our time here. But the reason I asked that question is that's also the switch that needs to happen. You need to now take this $14,000 and go, This is not going to solve my problem. That's going to be gravy if and when I get any of it. Now we change our life. Elvara, you've got to take control of your situation and make it better. You can't rely on this 14 coming in to make the day better at all. In fact, I would just, this is a tough situation.

It's a lot of money.

It's a lot of money, but you got to move on from it because it may be very hard to get back. So sorry you're in this situation. The moral of the story is what in a bumper sticker.

Don't loan people money.

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Go to betterhelp. Com/ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's Betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/ramsey. All right, let's go to Marley in Phoenix, Arizona. Marley, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Hi. So I am a woman in my 40s, and I already had some assets and investments in place before starting to prioritize being debt-free. Over the years, I've built a comfortable, stable life. I don't make a ton of money, but I make good financial decisions overall. I'm really proud of where I am, but I keep hitting the same issue where I get into a relationship, and for me, marriage is not on the table. I don't want to be married, but I also don't want to be alone.

Tell me, wait a second. All right, we need at least a few seconds on this deal. You want a relationship, but you don't want to get married. What's the barrier there?

I watched my mom and my dad, and they are wonderful people. My dad was a good provider, but it made me unable to trust anyone else with my financial well-being. I always need to take care of that for me. I need to have autonomy for that.

Did someone do- So I just- Do you wrong?

I just don't see in my life being able to put my financial well-being in someone else's care.

Is that because of how your dad treated your mom?

Oh, no. I mean, he didn't give her a lot of equality and equity. He was a good provider. They had a decent relationship for what they were taught in their-Okay.

But you came out of that and said, But because of that, you used that as the context to say, As a result, I don't ever want to rely on a husband for financial safety.

Correct. I am going to be independent and take care of myself and then build that life.

But you want a relationship.

I do want to be a monogamous long term relationship.

What you're looking for is companionship. That's what you're looking for. Right. And you would have a companion. And I'm really cool about that.

Well, how's that working out?

I mean, it always worked out well for a while.

How long?

And eventually, they want to wife me.

I don't know. Well, that's all you're going to get. I mean, you have to... Here's the thing. I'm just going to shoot you straight as your friend. If you say to somebody, I want companionship from you, there's no commitment there. And so that person has the ability to say, Yeah, I'll hang with you as long as this works out for me. And then when it no longer works out for me, they can cut you loose. That's what you're giving them permission to do. So you have to know that if that's what you want to do, you probably every five, six years, or maybe you might get a decade out of somebody, you're going to be switching over to somebody else. And I'm okay with that.

Oh, you are.

If I am clear about what's on the table and they don't don't believe me, which I tend to find is the case, they think, Oh, I'll change her mind. Sure, sure, sure. She's like, I don't have children. Everybody always said, Oh, she'll change her mind. Guess what?

So you're sad you're breaking up with these guys, and they're sad. You feel like you're a heartbreaker. And you're like, Why am I a heartbreaker? I told you this from the beginning.

I just feel like I was clear about my expectations. And eventually, the only time that I feel I need to end the relationship, if it is financially oriented, is when they say, either you give me access to your account or I can't be with you. And I say, Okay, then we're not together.

How many times has this happened where you have broken off a relationship because the guy wanted to get married?

Two.

And how old are you, if I may ask? I'm in my 40s. You're in your 40s. And has it been really heartbreaking, any of these? Have they been gut-wrenchingly hard, even though you stuck to your principle? I'll give you that. Has it been really hard on you?

I mean, there's obviously emotional strife, but when I look back on it, it's not a level of regret that I feel like, Oh, I missed out on something good because of it.

All right, great.

What's your question? Yeah, what's the question? Because my thing is, I'll meet you where you're at. If you're like, I never want to get married, fine. At this point, I think it's just setting proper expectations in no way.

I have a suggestion later that I want you to consider, Marley, but I don't want to get in the way of what you called for. What did you call Well, what is the appropriate structure?

Because I know the whole Ramsey thing is that when you're married, you're one.

It's all in there. If you're not married, don't combine it.

Exactly. And so what What is an appropriate way to execute that when the marriage is not on the table? Execute what?

Execute what? I'm confused. You're dating. You have to view everybody as somebody you're dating, which is my money is mine. I do whatever my plan is. I do my own thing, and I'm with them as long as they'll be with me until they want to get married and I don't. And then they'll exit the scene and I will keep everything I have.

Are you talking about day-to-day expenses?

Yeah. Because I've tried several different ways.

Well, you're roommates. It sounds to me like, can I say this? You're roommates, and you got some type of privileges. That's between you and whoever. But you're roommates. So that means you're splitting utilities, you're splitting the rent. I mean, that's what we would suggest because you're not married. And by the way, that's what you want anyway. Sounds like you don't want anybody to weigh in on your finances or contribute.

I guess maybe we back out.

Perhaps it's more of a backing out of the romantic part of the relationship and just saying, knowing that the romantic part does have some... You want to be fair, you want to be equitable, you don't want to be having anybody feel like they're being taken advantage of.

I'm so confused.

Here's the thing. The hard part is, foundationally, I see it differently because if you have love for someone at a certain level, especially at an intimate level, then you're wanting that intimacy to take place in other areas of the relationship as well, but you have blocks there. I'm just saying this again as your buddy, there is going to be, because of the way love works, there is going to be some dysfunction there with you having those barricades there and wanting basically to have everything a marriage has but not having the marriage. It's like, I want all the benefits of this, but I don't want any of the risk of it. I think that's what you're struggling with. I'm going to tell you, that's going to cause you issues, and it's going to cause confusion. Like you said, to quote you, emotional strife, because you're trying to execute. You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too. It seems like you have a really good reason in your head for that, but I think that you're letting that reason become an excuse for you to really get the most out of this. I said it before that I wasn't going to try to convince you elsewhere, and I'm not.

But I would suggest you maybe getting to the bottom of that, because to your point, you've seen relationships not work out well, but I guarantee you you have seen them work out well. So you know it can go either way, and you have to ask yourself, what was the factor in that? What caused a relationship to go well or not go well? And is there Is there any piece of control that you can have over that? I think, yes. I think that marriages are successful every single day. There's part of that, that there could be more education or learning to go on that that could help you.

You got to redefine control. Marley, I thought I was going to hear something far more dramatic. Maybe you didn't want to share it, don't need you to share it. Something you witnessed has created a massive, massive hole of trust in your life. You just I don't trust anybody. Not criticizing you here. You called in. I'm making a little quick analysis here to say that there is no way to structure these relationships with romance and then a lack of trust around finance. You just can't do it. What's going to happen, Marley, and you said you're okay with it and you've signed up for it. Here was my suggestion. If you haven't done it before, I would get a really good therapist, and I would sit with a therapist long enough and you got the money to do I would dive into this to see if the therapist can help you get to the bottom of this lack of trust and then help you with tools to be able to deal with this trust. Because I think in the end, if you give it a shot, for those of us, I've been married almost 28 years, so I'm not selling something that I don't believe in.

I just think that you can have that relationship that you long for and coexist with finances, but not until you can see the source of your lack of trust. I I see that, I feel that, I hate that for you, but I would give it a shot. I'd kick the tire since you've been in so many relationships and they haven't worked out, some to your detriment romantically and emotionally. Give it a shot. Get to the source of this before we jump back into another relationship. And I think it's worth it in the long run.

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All right, Jade, I know you're paying attention to this stuff. We talk about this stuff from time to time. Affordability, probably the issue in America today, right? Whether you're on TikTok, Instagram, CNN, Fox News, whichever side of the ideological aisle or political aisle, everybody's talking about affordability. I'm holding in my hands here a Yahoo article. Trump is weighing in on all this stuff as well as the President. And the latest headline, President Trump instructs government to buy $200 billion in mortgage bonds in a bid to make homes more affordable. And so here's the idea. If the government purchases 200 billion in mortgage bonds, Trump is vowing that this will drive rates down and make the cost of owning a home more affordable. That's his quote. He's saying it's one of the many steps in restoring affordability, something that the Biden administration refused to do, whatever, whatever, whatever. I bring that up to say, Dave and I were on the air, I believe last week, and we were talking about One move that we did like is Trump somehow pushing or influencing legislation, or if through an executive order, it can be done, not allowing corporations to come in and buy houses.

Yeah, I think that would be wonderful.

We love that. This one, whether I agree with or not, is a very interesting thing and explain at least the math behind it, whether or not it's true, whether or not he can do it. It is interesting that people understand because what we want to do as Ramsey Solutions, we want to come, when we can, alongside potential public policy or existing public policy or new public policy, and go, Here's how this affects you. So if, in fact, what he's saying, if the federal government's 200 billion, boom. Explain why he thinks that that will work, what the math is on that.

Yeah. So obviously, this is not the first time something like this has happened. We saw it in COVID to an extent. But basically, think about it, when you buy a mortgage bond, mortgage bonds are simply a bunch of mortgages rolled to one investment vehicle. If I buy a house, can you buy a house? Technically, the lender doesn't own it, and investors have bought that off. The reason that happens is because when investors buy these mortgage bonds, then it frees up lenders to have more money to lend out again. So it creates a cycle there. So when these bonds are bought up, obviously, if you infuse that market with $200 billion and you're buying up $200 billion of bonds, you're creating a very, very high demand for bonds. Obviously, the higher the demand, the higher the price bracket goes for those. And as the price goes down, then because this is an in-demand item, people are willing to receive less in order to get it. When I say receive less, I'm talking about interest. When those interest rates go down, housing interest rates go down. That's how it's connected. The thought is, hey, if we can go in here and, whether you believe this is artificial or not, artificially buy up all of these bonds, that's going to create the ability for the interest rates to go down.

That's the idea around it, whether you agree with it or not, whether you do it quickly or slowly. That's part of this is, hey, if we do this too quickly, could it really mess with rates and could we see things plummet too quickly and it cause a whole set of other problems? It looks like whether they continue it or not, I think they've already started, Ken, and they've done like 2 or 3 billion of the 200 billion. Maybe if they do this slower and over time, we might see interest rates it's ticked down. Whether you agree with it or not, that's up to you. But just understanding it, I think, is the first part of it. I think a lot of times, headlines like this, Ken, they see the president's name and they see a big number and they go, Oh, that's good. Or I hate it. Or, I hate it, but really understanding it is a great place to start.

Let me just add briefly to this. Understand that even if this were to work the way that the President wants it to work, and we see interest rates come down. When interest rates come down, you watch interest rates on homes, mortgages drop. Let's just call it significantly, Jade. What happens next? People who've been on the sidelines get in, demand goes up. What happens when demand goes up, Jade?

When demand goes up, those prices.

Prices go up. While the The cost of borrowing might go down. The cost of a house goes up. So I say all of that not to say you're doomed, no, but to say that what we say here at Ramsey is there's never... It's always a good time to buy if you can afford.

Right. That's the best time to buy when you can afford it.

There's no waiting for the circumstances to be right, because we're sitting in a situation now where everybody's griping about housing. Well, I got news for you. Housing is going up if rates go down because of the demand. We just explained So here's the point. Even with the 15-year, we saw it dip last week. All these trends, again, just pay attention to this. Only buy if you're financially ready. And that means to make sure that your mortgage payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay on a 15-year fixed rate, conventional loan. And you need to know that buying a house in your budget's possible if you have the right real estate, Ramsey, trusted real estate agent. So find yours at ramseysolutions. Com/agents. Ramseysolutions. Com/agents. Don't get stuck. Just trying to ride the roller coaster of trends. It never works that simply. Lynnwood is up next in Montgomery, Alabama. Lynnwood, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call. Well, that Yahoo article is a perfect segue into my question. So super simple. I'm active duty, about to buy a house in March. My wife and I, this is our first home. I'm just on the fence if I should use a conventional loan or a VA loan. Yeah, that article came out and I called my loan officer. And basically, the difference I'm looking at is, conventional, what I'm quoted as about $1,204 per month. And with the VA loan at the APY and APR, it would be about $1,160 per month. So $44 per month difference, about $528 per year. And I'll tell you why I'm on the fence. I, once again, first time owning a home. I'm not too fond of the escrow. I'm new to all this real estate stuff. And when I actually understood what escrow was, I was a little bit confused on, I'm going to give the bank more of my money to pay my bills for me. When I feel I'm competent enough to pay my bills myself, I already do it with my car insurance, my phone, my gym membership, whatever.

I can pay all my own bills. So with the VA loan, I won't be able to bypass escrow. My loan officer is telling me I can bypass the escrow with the conventional loan. So I'm wanting the conventional for the liberty of not having escrow, but I'm on the fence because I have a better rate with the VA, but I will have the escrow.

That is a lot. Okay, and I'm thinking through it. I'll be honest, I'm not a specialist on either of these. I feel like you would have to have the number. I would have to be able to compare it to something else. I would simplify. For me, I'm thinking about the fact that usually we don't recommend VA loans because of the fees that are associated. I don't know if the numbers that you've gotten have accounted for that or not. I know that if you are exempt because of disability, those fees go away. I don't know if that's the case for you. There's some things in here that I honestly don't have the information to tell you fully.

What's the difference in rates?

The difference in rates, I don't have the best credit because I've been too davish my whole life. I don't ever borrow money. Okay. So the difference in rates, the conventional is 6 % and the VA is 565. I guess To make my question more simple, I'm sorry it was so complicated, Jake. It's okay. I cannot get behind escrow. Am I too weird? Am I too- I think it's the wrong thing to be hung up on.

I think so, too.

Are you currently active? You're currently active duty, correct? Yes, sir. Okay. And are you moving around from base to base? What do you anticipate the next five, six years looking like as far as you moving around?

I will probably move from where I'm at right now in December of 2027, and then this house will be a rental, and I'll probably move overseas after this.

Don't do it. We get this call all the time from military men and women. First of all, thank you for your service. You're a great American, but let me just tell you what we tell them. If you're in the military and you're moving every two years, the house becomes a massive headache at times. Flipping that all the time with you going overseas, your current situation, I would not get into the landlord business, certainly when I'm overseas. I would sit tight, see what the overseas trip looks like and what that's going to determine before I buy a home. I just wouldn't jump in right now and buy a home.

The escrow is not part of the discussion, by the way.

It doesn't even matter. Just don't buy a home right now with you moving around so much.

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All right, let's go to Megan in... I think this is... Oh, this one always gets me. Hold on. This is really fun. I'm going to say it is Lima. Is it Lima, Ohio? Is it Lima or Lima? What is it? Is it Lima? Oh, my gosh.

Okay, great. I was gone with the Peru, Peruvian reference.

By the way, sorry to the team in the control room. They were like, Is Ken's meds wearing off? Is he melting down right now? I was trying, Megan, so hard. I'm sorry to make you laugh. No, it's okay. We like to laugh here. Lima. Okay, great. I like to be fanatically strong.

Well, in Peru, it's Lima, but I guess it's- In Ohio, it's Lima.

Yeah. All right, Megan.

We have a Rushi in Ohio, but it's spelled like Russia.

And they call it Rushi?

Yeah.

Well, how about this? When I lived in Kansas, there is a city that was spelled like Arkansas City, and it was called Arkansas.

Oh, that's so irritating.

It was called our Kansas City.

Let me give you one here in Tennessee, and I think they do this in Georgia as well. It's Lafayette, the legendary French general who France loaned to America. And as a result, he was a hero. And there are Lafayette towns and counties all over America, except for in Tennessee and Georgia, they call it Lafayette. It's hurtful. Somebody punched me right in the neck.

Well, Nothing hurts more than Murphy's borough. Murphy? Not Murphy? Sorry. Megan, we're getting all… This is exciting. We're going off the rails.

Megan, so sorry. Really, it's like group therapy with you. This is very exciting. How can we How can I help you today?

My parents are in their late '60s, and they have done nothing to prepare for retirement. They say they're just going to work until they die because they just see no point ever slowing down to the point that they don't have any documentation. Their will is from before I was born, and I'm in my late '30s. How do I guide them? Because I've tried signing them up for classes, tried getting them set up with a lawyer to try to get documents in place, and every time, it just falls apart.

Are they asking for your help or are you volunteering it?

Volunteering it because I don't want to be set up to have to deal with all of it when they die.

Oh, man, oh, man. Megan, I get it. First off, I feel your pain. The hard part about this is, and Ken knows, when someone's not asking and you're breaking your neck trying to do it for them and help them, they don't want it. They don't care. It is not important to them. And it is important to you, it should be. But the hard part of is they don't care. Now, I don't know if you've had this conversation with them, which is, Hey, guys, I know you haven't asked for my help, and I'm sorry if it feels like I am encroaching on your privacy here. But here's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about the fact that I'm 30 years old. I have X amount of dollars and X amount of obligations. It's none of my business, but I have the information right now, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, that you're really not too concerned with retirement. You have the right not to be, but I am. And the reason why I am is because if I look up and you're 80 years old and somebody needs care or somebody needs this, I'm realizing that all that's going to fall on me.

And that's what I'm concerned about. Is there a plan that I don't know about that you guys can tell me about? That's the conversation I'd be having instead of jumping straight to, Let me help you with budgeting.

I've I've had some of that conversation with them, and it's always the same of like, Well, we'll get to it later. We have to grow our business. We have to focus on this. They'll come up with a thousand different excuses on why they're never going to work on that.

And then you can say And then you can say, Okay, well, I'm just... That's fine. But I do want to let you guys know so that you know, if there's no money there, if we look up in your 80 and there's no money there, I can't help. I can't. And then you can let them know that and say... So if you're on Medicaid- It's the opposite.

They have a ton of money. They're worth a lot. And they don't want to... And my mom will make a comment of like, Well, when I die, you're not going to get any of my half of the estate. It's all going to be a scholarship because I want everyone to remember me for forever. My dad will be like, No. And then that'll be the end of the conversation. It'll be like, That's as much as you're going to get. Does that make sense?

So you're I'm more concerned with your cut of the will than them having money?

I was more concerned of not doing what they wanted if they had certain things they wanted. If my mom wants a scholarship in her honor, how am I supposed to know what scholarship- Then that's not up to you.

That's all I want.

The courts will decide that.

She'll leave instructions. If she doesn't leave instructions, to Jay's point, I got to tell you, this changed everything for me here in this conversation. Your mom is a treat to make a statement like that. Then your dad My dad just does the whole, okay. That says a lot to me that I'm not sure the scholarship has been outlined. I think your dad just is blowing her off in a very, let's change the subject way. You don't need to worry about this. I got to tell you. Okay. And by the way, the more you keep bringing it up, it could be to your disadvantage, if you know what I'm saying. You're like the little fruit fly. And by the way, this whole call is a little close to home for me because, Megan, we had fun at the start of this call. I'll let you in on this. This is probably almost two years worth of frustration for me. I've been trying to talk Jade into doing a duet with me on a live event stage, and it's the same thing. She doesn't want to hear that. Every time I bring it up. So it's like what I'm doing to Jade and trying to sing with her- It's because you want to be sheer, and I'm trying to tell you I should be sheer.

See, it's not going anywhere. And see, I keep Telling her I want to do a duet. It'll be great. It'll be great. I tell her why. I talk about my soft baritone. Nothing. She's not interested in singing with me on a stage. So like your mom and dad, it's the same thing. They just aren't interested in your input. So you got to learn. I got to walk away. It's just not going to happen. And I've had to deal with it. I'm currently processing it. But it was a little too soon, but I thought it was a good metaphor.

I'm ready whenever you are, Ken.

Should I explain to all people who don't get sarcasm that I'm being completely Completely an utterly sarcastic?

They know.

Okay, good. They know. I would never try to sing next to you, ever. Even in the car. Really? With the radio up.

We should do an episode on front row seat. Some type of carpool karaoke?

No, I just would have to practice forever. You're just too darn good. Too darn good. Okay, let's talk for a second because I think this is a bigger issue I want to get to. Family. Whether It is, and I'm not going to go specific, I'm going to tee you up here. It could be loaning money. We say, Don't loan money. It could be this pressure here, the will, blah, blah, blah. There just has got to be some basic read the room when you're dealing with family and money, yes or no? Because you just don't have the influence you want, especially up the ladder to parents. Your parents are aging, they become the children, you become the parent. At some point, though, there's got to be some boundary that you put in place for your mental and emotional health. True or false?

True. Boundaries are life. I'm saying this because I have my own personal journeys happening.

Right.

And let me just say, when folks call in with these questions, I feel like I'm in a whole other head space on it now because it hits. And the thing is, yes, you need boundaries. And it's not like boundaries there to keep people out. It's just for everybody to be operating in their most healthy space. And that's the thing that you have to tell yourself and that I tell myself is not to be mean or to keep somebody at bay. It's to keep everybody in their most healthy space. I'm talking to myself right now. Right.

Because, okay, without getting into your personal stuff, there are times where it's like, I have to put a boundary on me because if I say something and it gets completely ignored, that puts me in a bad place, right? When your intentions are good. Yeah. That's a boundary. You go, I want to protect myself by not saying anything. Yes, 100 %. That's half the battle.

Then, too, you also have to ask yourself, why am I even getting... There's some times where it's like, you're getting involved. Why are you even getting involved? Did anybody ask you? That's right. Which is what I said to Megan. Obviously, it panned out differently. But if nobody asked you, don't get involved.

Here's another thing. This is a fun example. Megan, bless her heart, great heart. She brings it up to mom, and mom hits her back with, You're not getting any of my money. Well, that's not fun to hear.

It's not, but it's also mom's prerogative.

I know, but it's not brought If you don't bring it up, it doesn't get thrown in your face. That's true.

To your point. Mind your business is what you're saying.

Listen, unless they asked you, Megan, we'd like to know what you think, you stay out.

Mind your business.

Welcome Back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Riley joins us now in Seattle, Washington. Reilly, how can we help?

Hey there.

It's time for me to save her down payment, and I use a Ramsey trusted pro who wants me to stop contributing to retirement to get intense about storing cash. This gives me some FOMO about missing compounding and just turning retirement off. Do you have any thoughts?

I mean, if you're truly on baby step 3B, it's your choice. If you want to do both simultaneously or if you want to take all of that money and really hammer the down payment hard for the next two to two and a half years? What's the horizon? How long is it going to take to save your down payment if you had all the money going towards it?

Yeah. So I could probably do it within a year if I got really intense, and that's his idea is to stop doing things at the same time.

How long would it take?

Or it would probably take two years.

And what do you... Are you in a hurry that, I must have a in one year, or are you fine to take the two-year route?

Well, what's tough is it's so expensive in Seattle that waiting seems like prices will just continue to go up. So I would like to get intense. I just need some encouragement to have a year where I don't contribute anything.

Okay, so you want to do the year plan. Yeah, I would just say that at the end of the day, you have to remember these are both investments. So mentally, we think, Oh, my gosh, I'm not investing. I'm giving up investing to get this house. And what's helped me and what did help me when I was in your shoes is to remember, real estate is also an investment, and it's a forced savings account for your future. So once you buy this house, you're saving up this down payment. All that is doing is creating equity for when you buy the house. So don't think of it as, I'm not investing. Think of it As I'm diversifying in this way, I've got money going that's going to go to my 401(k) for retirement, and then I'm also investing money into this primary real estate venture. Does that help?

Yeah, absolutely. Instead of investing in one area, I'm doing it in a new area that I'm just not used to. That's right.

The other thing is, I play around with some numbers and just do real math, look at trends in the Seattle market over the last 30 years. What is the percentage? There are people that the market has gone up on average over a decade. What are the experts saying? Like, right now, I know that I can go online and I can get a good guess on what home prices look to be. Will they go up in 2026 in my county? We're talking about 12 months difference. In other words, if you go all in, pause investing for 12 months, there's an amount of money that you anticipate being able to save, correct?

Yes. Yes.

Then if we say, All right, if I didn't pause investing and I saved over a 24-month period, what would that amount of money be? I think you know what that number is, correct?

Yeah.

Okay. Then look at what do I think housing, based on the market and whatever I can look at, how much do I think housing prices are going to be that much different in the difference of 12 months? I'm just saying I would look at all of this and not be like, Oh, my gosh. It's going up, it's going up. In all reality, it's not going to go up as much as you think in two years. Now you're looking at the difference of one year. As you're making this decision, I'm just giving you some food for thought. Does this make sense? I'm not telling you what to do, but I'm just telling you to have all the information, get all the numbers out, and let's be educated about what we're doing here, because you may not have to pause investing.

Yeah. Unfortunately, Unfortunately for the area, it's like 200,000 for down payment is my goal, and that just seems like an insane amount of money. But if I waited, then maybe it will be, Okay, now you need 240,000. And these are not incredible homes. It's just the market here.

Right. And then if you think about that 40,000 across those two years, you have to ask yourself, Okay, is that worth? Saving 40,000, is it worth what I would have made investing that extra, I don't know how much you're saving monthly for this, but that's really the equation that you're looking at. The amount that you would be putting towards your down payment monthly instead of investing it, would that money invested outpace what you project to be the increase in the real estate market? Now, saying that- And that's the tough piece because we don't know what- We don't know. You could probably find some realistic projections out there. You could probably find some realistic projections out there. I, personally, I, Jade, probably would not nerd out to that extent because there's two things on the line. It's a question of values. You have to go, Okay, how much do I value having this house? What's it going to give me? Is it going to give me stability? It's going to give me a little bit of diversification in my investments because this is probably not your forever home. At some point, you'll probably sell it and you'll make some money, that thing.

I'm giving you that equation because you might like to nerd out on it. I personally would not. I would just look at this and go, You know what? How quickly do I want to get this done and out of my life? I value doing it faster than I value putting aside the extra money in retirement, so I'm just going to do it. Or I just really love the way it feels to invest this full amount, so I'm fine with it. It's totally up to you. There's not a wrong or right answer on this.

Is this your first home?

Yes, it will be.

How old are you again?

Thirty Thirty-six.

Is it just you? Are you single?

Yes.

Okay. Any plans to settle down?

I like my area. I could easily The biggest thing is the commute. I could afford much more, but driving an hour each way would not be very fun. No, I agree with you on that.

By the way, I agree with you on that. That's a quality of life issue. That adds up really quick. My point is, I'm not trying to get into your relationship life, but I am saying if you plan to settle down at some point, that person may have and should have some say in where you're going to live. At 36 and single, not ready to settle down, does it sound like to me, which is fine. I'm just giving you, if I'm sitting in your shoes, I'm going to save up more and I'm going to take my time. I'm not going to try to rush in the next 12 months. I wouldn't, knowing what I know about you.

Maybe you hit goal, but then not purchase right away.

No, I'm just saying what you gave us was, should I pause my retirement investing and go all in and take that money and put it into Baby Step 3B? I thought that was the question. Correct. I'm saying in your situation, I would not pause investing. I would just keep investing and keep saving. Oh, really? Yeah, because he's not in a situation where I feel like he needs to rush to settle down in a place to live. He's single. I'm okay with renting in his situation.

You know what? I'm just the opposite. I'm like, if there's not a lovely lady in the picture, it'd be one thing if you're like, I'm dating someone, we're getting serious. I'd be like, Wait, you guys can do this together. But if there's no one in the picture, I'd be like, Let me get this house before this real estate market goes up.

You're talking to a guy who's older and understands the power of that investing. I'm just like, I wouldn't rush to buy if I were you. Certainly not in Seattle.

Two different opinions. So you get to do what you want it.

Neither is correct. That's right. It's It's your call, Reilly. You're a smart guy. You're doing the right thing. Love the question. Do what feels best for you on this. You're not going to screw it up. That's right. Yeah. Hey, good folks. Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy-editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions. Com/careers. That's ramseysolutions. Com/careers. All right, folks, if you fly blind with your taxes, they're going to be confusing, stressful. I already have a little faux indigestion just thinking about flying mind on taxes, something I would never do. Ever, ever, ever. But with the help of Ramsey's easy to digest tax resources, you can handle your taxes with ease and confidence. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/taxis, ramseysolutions. Com/taxis, and they'll help you navigate all the different changes in life, confusing forms, and all the complicated filing scenarios.

You also find tips and tricks to make your tax return easy and guides on filing if you're self-employed or a freelancer. There it is, folks, ramseysolutions. Com/taxis. A tremendous resource in a really scary, scary, and sometimes very, very frustrating area of our lives. There you go. Let's go to Grace now in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Grace, how can we help today?

Hi. I was wondering if you guys have any advice on how a young person can get a good paying job without a college degree.

I have lots and lots to say about it. Let's talk about your specific situation. Tell me how old you are.

I'm 20.

20. Are you in school, out of school, not going to do school? What's your story?

I would want to go to college, but I don't want to go in debt in order to go to college. So I'm currently just working for entry-level jobs.

Okay. What are you making?

I was making $17 an hour. That was the most I ever made.

You were. That says in the past. What are we making right now?

Well, I'm currently trying to get into the military, but in case I don't, because I know a lot of people get medically rejected. In case I don't- You want to fall back? Yeah.

All right, just for fun, okay? Like not holding you to these answers. You don't have to sound right. You don't have to impress us. We're already a big fan of you, Grace. Let's assume you had the degree and say that the money was there and you could get a degree, and that degree was going to get you into a career path. Do you have any ideas, desires for what that answer would be? What is that career path or paths, plural?

I would like to be in government and be able to travel.

Government and travel. Tell me more about this government job. Just give me the ideal job. Ken, this is what my days would look like. What would you be doing?

My days or the exact job title?

No, what would you be doing during the day? Forget job title. I don't care about job title. What would you be doing in the government?

Well, I really like the current people in government right now, and I would want to... The dream job would be to be able to have some power to be able to change bad laws and just change laws.

Okay, got it. So you're talking about You're talking about a legislative job, and that's way up the ladder. You gave me the answer. Okay, so the military situation, when are we going to find out about that? What's our timeline?

Well, I'm going to boot camp tomorrow, so I'll try to find out within a week or two.

You're already in?

Yes, but I'm asking for other people, because a lot of people get medically rejected from the military, and there's still a chance that I could. That's why I was really curious I'm curious how you guys advise people if they want to get a good paying, like a influential job, how they can go about that without going into debt.

I'm not going to answer it on influential because that's very subjective. But if for some reason you get medically rejected, you don't cut it in boot camp, what we're going to do is if we don't have any money to get qualified in college, then we look at, Can I get qualified to do a variety of different things? The answer to that is yes. We really want to start with, What is it that I would like to do? The answer to what is it that you would like to do should always come back to, What are you good at doing? What are the skills and talents you have? Now, here's the deal. I'm going to gift you this so you don't have to go through this long answer. I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has a 20-minute, get-clear career assessment in it, and it's actually going to involve AI, and it's going to spit out some very specific things based on three criteria that the assessment measures. What Grace is good at, that's your talent and skills. What Grace really loves to do, we call that passion.

That's work you really look forward. It's a task or a function or a role. Then We're going to look at what motivates Grace. What's her missional result in life, what gets her up in the morning to put out into the world? That's her result from work. The assessment will do that for you. But the answer to your fallback is, I'm going to look at my assessment, I'm going to look at what I'm good at doing, and now I know what types of jobs that I can go get or I can learn. I could go through a training program. I could go to some type of a boot camp if it's technology-related. If it's a trade, I can go to trade school. You still tracking with me? Yeah. There you go. We figure out what is the work I can do because I've got some raw talent. Then what's the work I want to do? Because I know that I love getting up every day and maybe Maybe I like doing process work. Maybe I like doing people work. Maybe I like working with objects. Maybe I like ideating and creating from my head. Those are the four types of work: idea work, people work, process work, and object work.

So Then this assessment will help you. But as you begin to figure out what work I would like to do, and do I have the requisite talent with training, now we've got some answers. Now we look at, Okay, what is it going to take for me to get into that? Most of the time you're going to find you don't need a college degree, that you can work your way into that. Let's see how the military thing plays out. Here's the good news for you. You make it through boot camp, you stick it out, you're going to now have the GI Bill. You're familiar with that, yes?

Yes.

Now Grace can Now Grace can do whatever she wants after she serves her time, rather. Really excited for you. Do you have some medical condition? You don't need to share with us, but is there something going on with you where you think it's a good chance you may not make it through boot camp?

No. But I just wanted to have a backup plan.

I love it. Okay.

I want to bring Jade in because she's got a lot of wisdom here. I want you to weigh in on the mindset and anything tactical that you think she might do as she walks into this very intense season that I think she's going to make it through. But what if she doesn't, Jade?

You're talking about the boot camp, specifically?

What do you want to add to this? What would she do? What's her fault? What would you add to what I said?

Anything you want to add? You covered the career front, like cover to cover. I don't have anything to add there. Are we Are you talking about going into the boot camp? What to experience?

No, I'm saying if she doesn't make it, which we don't want to focus on that. But since she asked, what would you say to her? If she doesn't make it for some reason, forget the career front. What would you say to her mindset-wise, emotional?

I would say, okay, I would say, sometimes when things don't go the way we want them to go, we're thinking it's... We automatically think it's a negative. If I don't get the job, it was a loss. If I switch jobs, it's a demotion. And I would say to flip that around. And if something doesn't happen, it's because it wasn't supposed to happen, which means there's the other successful piece that's out there waiting for you to just find it. And it's likely better than what you were initially planning for. That's why the other thing didn't work out. Yeah.

Do you mind if I ask what branch you're going into?

Sure. The Navy.

Come on. My grandfathers were both in the Navy. I'm partial. In the Navy. There we go. I think it's fantastic. Congratulations. Can we just say congratulations on you being selected? You're going into one of the great organizations in the world, United States Navy. You're going to learn so much, and you're going to come out of this thing. A lot tougher, sounds like after boot camp. I don't know what boot camp is like in the Navy. Is boot camp in the Navy as hard as it is in the Marines? I don't know. No.

It's not?

No, not at all. I don't think, at least.

Good for you. I think you're going to crush it. Hey, we're rooting for you here. We're rooting for you. Thank you. Yeah, so hang on the line. My gift to you, your boot camp gift, is find the work you're wired to do. And also, Christian, let's get her my other best-selling book, From Paycheck to Purpose, which is the seven stages of doing work that you were absolutely created to do. Very proud of those stages. That'll be helpful after you read the first book and take the assessment. Thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. I don't know if I could do well in the Navy, Jade. You know why? The deep sea? I'm afraid I'd be like ralphing over the edge of the boat all the time.

You'd get your sea legs. Would Yeah. I don't know.

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All righty then. Today's question comes from Aaron in Kansas. He says, Would there ever be a time where you wouldn't pay tithes in order to get yourself out of a bad financial situation. I'm doing okay, except I was dumb and bought a condo I couldn't afford. Now I'm in a situation where it's hard to pay my tithe, and I'm just curious as to your thoughts on how to juggle generosity and getting out of debt. I love this question. There's a couple of facets to it. I'll try to hit all of them. First off, for anybody listening, tithe. If you're a Christ-follower, one of the practices is you give 10% of what you earn back to your church in order for that to be used for missions or building the church or what have you. That's a practice that many Christ followers do. That being said, here at Ramsey, we would say giving that type of generosity, any type of generosity, including things like tithes, should be at the top of your list, the top of your budget as a practice all the time. That's my personal stance on it Well, that being said, from a debt payoff perspective, I always like to remind people that it's your choice.

I personally would always give. It's just a personal conviction that I have. And if you do want to get into the spiritual part of it, that's between you and God. I don't think that he's going to strike you with lightning if you don't give. And I also believe that your heart should be in the right place to give, to be a cheerful giver, giving out of willingness. And it sounds like at this point, you're not sure if you're willing to give this money. And that's something that you can wrestle through on your own. I'm not going to sit here and tell you yes or no. I can tell you what I would do, which I would continue to give, and I did when Sam and I were going through our debt payoff, 460,000. Money was so tight, and every cent counted. But for me, my personal perspective was, you can't out give God. And when you do give, you receive back. That's what scripture tells us, is that when you give in, it shall be given, press down, shaken together, running over, it will flow back to you. And so I believe that. And I believe that not just in a monetary sense, but you can receive that back with peace.

You receive that back with favor, open doors, all of these different things. For me, personally, it was something that I felt like if I didn't do, I was only cheating myself is the way I viewed it and Sam viewed it. That's up to you to decipher. That's just my take. I really want to look at this condo that you can't afford because what I'm really just seeing here is less of a tithe issue and more of a sustainability issue because what's the solution for this condo that's outside of your budgetary range? That's my question. I'd really be trying to get that right-sized and right-side up. That's the bigger play here, I think, than if you miss a month of tithe.

Here's the reality. My guess is, not having his budget in front of us, that if the tithe payment makes enough room to him to pay, he's got bigger problems, too. It's not just the tithe issue. We're running way too tight, and I think you're right. Very astute on that. Thank you for the question. Let's now go. This is fun. We've got Jade in studio with me, but we're going here in our neighborhood, in Nashville, Tennessee, where Jade is on the line. Jade, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you for having me. Sure. I'm churn to the side. I'm thinking about selling my house. I bought it when I was 22. I'm 34 right now. I do have a lot of equity, but the house is pretty old. It was built in 1965. I'm coming up Because I'm having a lot of issues as far as repairs with the house. It's just weighing on me financially to where it's causing me to be behind on other things because of the repairs and stuff. I am a single woman with two kids, and I'm thinking about selling, just to get a first start, a new start, but with me selling the house, I was going to try to use that money that I make from selling the house to put down towards a new house and probably consolidate some of my bills. Okay. I don't know.

Well, tell us about the house. What do you owe on the home? Then tell us what you think you can get for the home.

I owe 63, 64,000 on the house. I really don't know how much I would get. I have been getting a lot of calls all the time, and I would say 200 something, a little less than 300. Okay.

Well, step one is, we want you to go to ramsey solutions. Com after this phone call. We want you to look up our real estate page, and let's get you Let's have you talk to two or three of the trusted pros over there. Somebody that knows the Nashville market really well, and they're affiliated in the way that they know how we want them to treat you. They're going to treat you well. You go with the one that you have the best vibe with. Make sure that you understand everything. But let's get some real pros, some Ramsey trusted pros out there to tell you what your house is worth and give you a sense of the market and what you might be able to go to. Before we ever really decide on this, we need to know that. You need to know that for sure. Walk Jade through your debt. Walk us through that.

I have three credit cards for both of them. I mean, all three of them Two of them is 800, one is $900. I just use the very minimum. I do have school loan debt, but it's in good standing right now. How much? So I'm not behind or I don't owe. About 70,000. Okay.

How much do you earn?

I make 59, 60,000 a year.

What's that? What do you take home every month? What do you see?

It's based on overtime.

Okay. In between a good month and a bad month, what is it?

I say a good month for a month, maybe 4,200. A bad month, maybe 3,500. Okay.

So here's That's what I'm hearing. I have a couple of clarifying questions. One, when you mentioned earlier that it was tight- I do have a car note as well. Okay. Tell me about the car.

I owe $18,000 for the car.

So when you said earlier that it was tight and money was tight, was it the monthly payment that's tight, or was it when you're thinking about the repairs? Was it the repairs that were really what was frustrating you?

It's just the main thing is to continue. For me, my kids just continue living here. I would have to keep investing into the house as far as repairing things.

Things like what?

Like a roof, AC unit? I had just recently Yes, that's down currently right now. I just recently fixed a leak in my house on my roof, and I have another one, but it's on the backside of the house, so I haven't dealt with that, really.

Okay. So a lot of things. These are higher-ticket items is what it sounds like. Ken is right. I would want to get real numbers around selling the place. I also want you to have some clarity around your numbers. It feels like they're a guess right now, and I have a sense that if you had them in a budget, you could make a plan that could possibly really, really help you. Do you have a budget?

I do. It's probably not the best, but I do have a budget. I'm still figuring it out.

Okay. Well, we're going to send you a better budget. We're going to send you a copy of every dollar and give you a subscription for a year so that you can use it, so that you can find out what your margin is. Because it might, Jade, just be you needing to get and see how much margin do I have? What would it take for me to cut back a little bit and save up to do some of these repairs? I'm not convinced right away that it's time to sell. But the budget is going to tell you. If you're looking at it and you're in the red most months, then that'd be an indicator. But if you're looking at it and you're finding a couple of hundred dollars of margin and you're realizing, Man, I could be paying more towards these credit cards and clear those out, I might be interested in seeing this through as long as that mortgage is no more than 25% of that 4,200 every month.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsey solutions. Com/insurance.

Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Peter 1: 6. So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan, The Future Doesn't belong to the faint-hearted, it belongs to the brave. Oh, I see what they did there. That crypto commercial with Matt Damon I tried to borrow a little bit of that. Fortune favors the bold. Do you remember that? I wonder if they were borrowing from this Reagan quote. I just wonder.

You might be right.

I just wonder. Jennifer is up in San Francisco. Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah, thank you for taking my call. So I have a question. I am super new to the Ramsey baby steps, and I have a unique situation. Since I'm now on this track and trying to solidify practicing financial literacy, I have a 17-year-old son, and I want to make sure that he doesn't struggle with the lack of knowledge for financial literacy that I did growing up. So how transparent should I be in communicating my mistakes to help him make that foundation starting now using Ramsey principles.

Well, I'm just curious. Let's just say that he's in the room and you're asking me, it's like, Oh, yeah, share the mistakes you really love your son to know about. What would those mistakes be?

Well, when I was little, well, I guess, young, getting turned into the world, I didn't understand about budgeting. I didn't know the The importance of making sure that you... Knowing where every cent of your money went with it, and it caused struggles. Okay. Thankfully, now I've worked my way into a fantastic career and now seeing the, Oh, I still have time to correct the mistakes that I made. But my most important aspect is making sure that as a parent, you want better for your child.

Look, I love that answer.

Not to be as open.

Yeah. Well, I don't think you have to... Of course, I have a unique situation, and my kids roll their eyes every time they see me on a video or anything like that. But I talk to them about the big picture financial stuff, obviously, in my role here. But my wife and I, we don't let them see our budget. We're not opening up the... That's just something they can't handle, nor do they need to know. However, the reason I asked you that first question, I'm sure that you could say if I was in a room with you and we were whiteboarding your biggest financial mistakes, you said the budget, you didn't budget, you didn't know how to budget. Okay, that's what. You probably at some point accumulated some debt. I would talk about those big mistakes and just keep it that simple. Then come alongside of him after you talk about, You know what? I wish someone had talked to me about budgeting. Now I use this thing called Every Dollar. Let me explain the concept of the budget. You're walking through it and you go, Here's why. But I think kids will listen to our pain more than they will our advice.

I know that there have been a handful of times, Jade, I want to bring you in on this, where I have had some moments with all three of my kids, different times, where I realized in talking about dumb things that I did, failures that I had made, they locked in and asked lots of questions. It started with just pure curiosity. I want to know how dad screwed up because he might be the idiot that I think he is. In talking about my failures, I was then and only then able to, and most of the time, they'll ask questions, and I was able to give some insight into how to avoid that for themselves. I think that's the easiest way to go. Jade, I want you to weigh in on this because I think you got some great insight.

Honestly, Ken, I think you got it. Your kids are older than mine. Mine are five and seven, and so we're very low on the sharing category at this point. But I agree with Ken. I mean, I'm just thinking back to the things that I remember that my own parents taught me, and a lot of it was that thing. Don't make the mistake I did. Do this instead. I think there's just a relatable quality there that young adults want to see. They want to see that they're not alone and that you were once thinking some of the same thoughts they're thinking.

Does he have his own job?

He just got his first job right after he got his driver's license.

Great. You know what I think is also the greatest teacher is to let him make some mistakes, and then you'd be there to go, Hey, and not correct him. It's going to be very hard, mom. Especially a 17-year-old boy who's now distancing himself from you. I'm sure you're already seeing it. A little.

I think we're about as close as I could expect to be for having a 17-year-old son.

I'm just telling you, Stacey, we're on the air with you right now. There were things, and again, every situation is different, but they naturally push away from you. If he makes some mistakes with his own money, Jennifer, your posture needs to be, Oh, buddy, I'm so sorry about that. I did something like that. No, I told you so, or you can't do that. It's got to be, Oh, that stinks. I did that. Oh, man, I blew that so many times. Hey, you want my thoughts on how do you avoid that? He's going to need that approach. But I think one of the things we do as parents sometimes is we hover way too much, especially with teenagers, as opposed to be available, not hover, but be available when they blow it and in the right posture. I think that's probably the best thing you can do. Thank you for the call.

I love that. It's like a good salesperson. You want them. You have to be far enough away that you're not annoying them. But if they need you, they can just...

What's the old phrase, When the student is ready, the teacher appears? Kind of a thing. I think with parenting, that's one of the things that I'm so stinking hard. I'm still in the middle of I got a 20, an 18, and a 17, but I still don't do that well. But I found that when I can just chill out- They come to you.

It's like getting a little birdie to come to you.

A hundred %. They come to us and they're like, I'm like, Oh. And I'm learning to just be like... My good friend Les Perreta taught me this. He's a world-renowned psychologist. Just immediately empathize. First thing is, Oh, man, that stinks. That's got to feel awful. It just sit in it instead of clean it up.

I'm going to remember this. I'm tucking this in my back pocket.

The parental tendency is to come in and clean up the mess. Oh, you're sitting in your own dookie. Let's get that all cleaned up. Instead of letting them sit in it and go, Oh, that's awful, isn't it? It's Where you're like, Oh, I feel so bad you're sitting in that. How did we get there? What happened? And boy, it's so hard to do that, right? What happened? Let him describe how they got in that situation. Crazy. All right, let's go to Sean, see if we can help Sean out on the tales of that call. John, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thank you for having me.

Hey, I'm glad to have you. Listen, I'm putting you on the spot. We've got about two minutes, so you can hit us with what we can help with quick.

Okay.

I'm new to making a budget.

Never made one before. Maybe it's bad timing on my end here, but I'm going through a career change. New job starts next month, as well as having a child in three months.

Yipes.

Having a hard time trying to figure out a budget. My income is irregular. I work in sales, and then I'm also in the Army Reserve, and so that income is also different month to month.

Okay, you're in good hands with Jade. All right.

What I would do, I would start out by saying, what's the worst month I could possibly have money-wise? With the Army Reserve, what's the least they could pay me? And with my sales job, what's that base salary that I know I'm going to get? I would start there because you truly don't know. It's a new sales job. You don't know what you're going to make. You don't know if you're going to knock it out of the park or if it's going to be a struggle for you. I would start with that lowest amount. And that way I have sense of this is the least I could make. And then from there, I'd build the budget and I'd realize, okay, if I have the worst month ever, here's how much in the red I'll be. Or you might discover, oh, even in a bad month, I won't be in the red at all. Just Having some real facts to put to this is going to help with any anxiety you have around it. Then let's say you do that and you are in the red, I would just be formulating some thoughts, okay, if that happens and I'm $500 in the red, what would I do to fix it?

Start thinking about that. And then as you start to do the job and you start to figure out, Okay, this is the regularity. This is what I'm used to making, you'll start budgeting based on that number. But for sales, any irregular income small business, if you can create a cushion, a decent enough cushion, that if you know, Hey, it takes $5,000 to run my life, I always have a cushion with that $5,000 in it, and I'm pulling from it as needed It'll take you some time to build that up. But for a regular income small business, that really, really does help.

Yeah. Love that advice. You can do this. Hang on the line. Let's get him into every dollar. Love that, Christian. Let's actually let you start practicing, and you will get really good at it. Christian will take care of you. Thank you, Sean, for the call. All right, folks, remember this, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.