Transcript of "I’m 50 With No Retirement Living Paycheck-to-Paycheck"

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show alongside the Natalie Retired George Campbell, bringing out another beautiful winter shacket. It's a big word on a Friday. Shacket. Thank you. Love seeing the shacket make an appearance. Just happy to be alongside my good friend George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman, and we have a fantastic studio audience today out in the lobby. I got to tell you, they just look like they're excited to be alive and here. We're grateful to see you all as well. Handsome audience out there, George. Absolutely. Let's go to Anne, who starts us off in Cincinnati, Ohio. Anne, how can we help?

I am 50 years old. I have no retirement, no savings, nothing. I'll be honest, I'm not good with money. Growing up, I don't have a relationship with my family, never been taught how to manage money, how to budget. I would like to start 2026 doing that, and I'm just overwhelmed with how to start, where to I know the snowball, the dead snowball. I also have health conditions where I was out of work for a month in October. I was in the hospital, and it's snowball, and I feel like I just can't catch my breath, and I don't know where to start or what to do.

Okay. Well, you came to the right place, and we're going to start with two words. It's possible. Because you understand the baby steps. But the idea of how to actually make it work for you It seems like an absolute impossibility. True or false?

That is true.

Okay, great. That is true. We start with it's possible.

All right. George, let's do our thing. Let's get into the details. Let's get some numbers. The fact that you even decided this at 50 is amazing because I know you think it's too late for you, but there's someone who's going to call in probably today who goes, Hey, I'm 62, and I got nothing saved. So Anne's doing great. She's got a 12-year Head Start. And so it very much is possible, and we're going to dig into the numbers here to give a tactical plan. So are you working full-time right now? Yes, I am. Okay. What do you make? What do you bring home every month?

I bring home right about 1400 a month.

Okay.

A pay period, which is every two weeks.

So 28? Yes. Great. And are you renting right now?

I rent, yes.

What's your rent?

Fifteen.

Okay. So there's I'm just throwing up the flags. Flag number one, over half of your income is going towards rent. So there's one problem to solve. We'll put a pin in that. Now, tell me about your debt. How much debt do you have?

My debt is medical bills. Then, again, one of the worst things you could possibly do is payday advances with incredibly high interest rates.

What's the balance of those?

Balance of those is 10.

10k total between the medical debt and payday?

Yes. Okay. No, between the medical debt is right around 15, and then the cash advances is 10.

Okay. Any other debt?

No, I do not have any credit cards. I don't have any of that.

What do you do for a living?

I work in a medical office building.

Doing what?

I'm like a patient advocate type thing, like receptionist.

I work with patients. Are you hourly or is that your salary that we got from you?

I am hourly.

Exactly. What is that rate?

2377. Okay.

Then I'm curious about your physical stuff that's going on. Are you on the other side of that? Is that going to be a lingering thing that will cause issues for you? Because you've mentioned it.

That will be something that will linger.

Does that affect your ability to work?

No. There are times that I have to be off, but no.

Okay. But you're still pulling 40 hours a week and all that? Yes. Okay. Now, what other bills do you have? Because are you going beyond the pale here into the red every month because you don't have enough money with the 2,800? And so you're turning to payday loans to fund the gap?

Yes. Okay. Because I have electric, gas, Internet cable, car insurance, and a car payment. Okay.

Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

None.

Okay, good. Because we got to focus on this debt.

Yeah, we didn't catch the car debt. All I heard was the payday loan and medical debt. What's the car debt? I apologize.

The car, it's $450 a month, and it's right around $16.

And what is it worth?

It's a 2022. I would say it's probably worth it. I really haven't looked it up.

Hey, homework assignment number one, because if we We're going to get out of this car, we just gave you over a $5,000 raise. Are you tracking with me real numbers here, Ann? Yes. Okay, so I'm telling you, Kelly Blue Book is what we're looking for to sell this thing. And Then you're going to get a cheap car. Let's say you've got, I'm hoping, what car is this? A 2022 what?

A Kia K5.

Okay. You owe 16 It's on it. Let's say you come away with four or five grand in equity. That's what you're doing. That's what you're putting towards another car. Now you save yourself $450 a month immediately. For your budget's huge. George, I'm jumping in and getting ahead of the game here.

No, this is great.

But what's your apartment situation? Are you in a lease? When is that up?

It's actually a... It's a home. It's a three-bedroom, one-bath home. It is up in April.

You don't need a three-bedroom home?

Yes. Unless you have two roommates.

Okay, fantastic. That's where I was going.

That'll cut you down to 500 bucks a month, wouldn't it? Your share?

Yeah, around here, a one bedroom is about 1,100, 1,000 to 1,100.

What about some elderly couple or an elderly lady who's got a room over a garage? I just believe in most cities In America, you can get below a thousand bucks a month if you find something like that. Am I nuts?

Tell me if I'm wrong. No. But the other thing is, our parameter for your rent, your mortgage is a quarter of your after-tax monthly income. For you, we're talking about 750 is really where you're going to max out in order to accomplish any financial goals. As long as you're in this lease, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. As long as you have this car, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. But see what we're doing, Anne? We're looking at all things that you can actually control, even though it feels like they are immoveable objects. Well, I got to have a car. Yeah, but you don't need a 2022 car. You could have a 2013 and still get some made in big.

I'm not even driving a 2022.

I got to have an apartment, and they're expensive. Sure, but you have three bedrooms, and you only need one. So let's get two roommates. Go on Facebook, find an area. If you're in Cincinnati, jump on. There's a Cincinnati roommate Facebook group and vet them, interview them, meet up with them for coffee and say, Hey, I'm looking for a roommate. It's going to be bucks plus utilities. And all of a sudden, you just cut $1,000 off your rent. And if you sell the car, you just cut $500 there. That's $1,500 extra dollars a month you would have. You understand what we just did? Yes, absolutely. And so you're $41,000 in debt. If you could throw 1,500 at the debt, you're done in 27 months if you do nothing else. And I would cut cable yesterday because we're not going to be watching the latest season of survivor. Oh, you're so intense. We got to probably get a second job on top of that.

I I want more work.

Nights and weekends.

That's it. More income on top of all of this. George, what can we give her?

Every dollar is a great start, and I'm going to give you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through the entire plan with tons of ideas to help create that margin. Hang on the line, Anne. This show is sponsored by Better Health. All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying.

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Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you taking the time to take my call. Sure. My husband and I got married last year, and we're currently on baby step number two. I didn't think we had that much debt, and so I was like, Oh, we can get this paid off quick. It's going to be great. Well, when my husband graduated high school, he had an agreement with his mom that if he went to college, that she would pay for it, which is amazing. I thought she must have paid it out of pocket or got a personal loan. But it wasn't until about three months ago when my husband checked his credit score to find his credit had dropped drastically. And that's when I learned his college was paid through a federal student loan in his name, and his mom had stopped making the payment. When he asked her about it, she said that she forgot about them and she would start paying them again. Well, since then, she's continued to forget. She told my husband that we need to call and ask for a lower payment plan so she can afford it.

I want to just take over the payments ourselves since it's his loan and pay the student loans off ourselves. But my mother-in-law wants to pay for it, and she doesn't He doesn't want us to pay them, but she keeps forgetting and ruin his credit score. We're hoping to build a house soon or buy a house, but we can't do that with his credit being where it is. Although my credit is good, I still worry how it will affect us getting any loan. I'm also worried that if we pay them and tell her she could pay us back, I'm worried it will become one of those, Oh, borrowing money from family type situations, and it'll put our strain on the relationship. Overall, it just feels like a very yucky situation. So I was hoping to ask for some advice.

Do you think in any way that your mother-in-law is playing some passive-aggressive game here?

I don't want to say that. No. She did- No, no.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Now see, I've been doing this too long. So now you just told me something without telling me something. I'm not I'm not saying that she is. I'm feeling that it's possible. And when I asked you if you think she's doing that, you went, well, I don't want to say that. But that to me says you think it's very possible. And I think it's possible. In other words, here's what's not computing for me. She keeps forgetting, and then she reaches out and says, Hey, can you call them and see if they can lower the payment? So a person who I don't think she's forgetting. And then I also don't buy the idea that when you said to her, Well, we'll take over and we'll pay it, and she goes, No, I want to pay it. I don't think she wants to pay it. I actually don't think, and George, you can come over the top ropes here, and Samantha, you can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm giving you my gut read here. I think she wants you to forcefully take this thing. I think she wants you to take it, but she feels shame.

She's embarrassed. I think there's a lot of emotion going into this, and her resisting is really not resisting. She wants you to be, and when I say forceful, I don't mean ugly. I think she wants you to go, No, listen, it's Okay, you've been great. We're going to take it. Mom, it's my loan. We're going to do it. I think she wants you to do that. I don't believe that if you were to do that, it's going to break the relationship at all. Sure.

That's my take. And that's what I was thinking, too. I was thinking I'm thinking that, if anything, it helps her out, obviously. A hundred %. But I think there might be a sense of pride there. A hundred %. That's like, Hey, no, I want to take care of my son. I know that it was a very hard transition for her when we got married. She had a really hard time with it. And she kept telling myself- Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, She just kept telling my husband that it just felt like she lost him to me and all of this. It was very hard for me to do that.

There's some deeper stuff going on here. Now I know I'm right. Now it's not a feeling. Everything I just said is completely fact. You could chisel it in stone. This is a passive-aggressive thing, and you guys have got to be the adults here and create the boundary. I'll shut up because I've now said my piece, George. But boy, do I know I'm right now?

Let's put some tactical pieces on this. You need to take over these payments and go, Well, we didn't know we were in debt, but we're in debt, and that means we're not ready to buy a home, and that stinks. You have every right to be angry and upset and frustrated with mom for her irresponsability, frustrated with your husband for not knowing all these years that he had these debts in his name, which, by the way, if they're in his name, he signed some paperwork. Sure.

Well, I think what it was is he went into college right after high school, and he was just a kid, basically.

As we all were.

It's fair to trust your parents, trust the people. I remember when I got my student loans, they were just like, Yeah, sign here. You're good to go. I was like, Oh, okay. I did it because that was just what they told me to do. I don't like that about student loans. We just sign basically everything away right there when we just had a high school.

I'm with you. We just got up high school. I really- You're preaching to the choir here, Samantha.

There's a lot of predatory stuff going on there. That's for another day. But right now, the issue is mom can't pay, and you need to take this on because it's hurting your household. Now it's about protecting your household. Yeah, absolutely. And so you don't need to have a blow-up conversation with mom. You just need to say, Hey, we're going to take over the payments. Thanks for what you've done so far. We got this. Yeah. Absolutely. And now, how much do you have left?

So I was about to say, I also have student loans. He has around $17,000 in student loans. I personally have $12,000 in student loans. My student loans right now are in forbearence. They're in some save plan, which some federal court hasn't decided on the payment plans, and so every time I've called, they're like, No, no payments are necessary. I log in to my federal student loan account and whatnot, and it says no payments are due until 2027. But I was looking at it the other day, and I noticed that it's still accruing interest.

Yeah, forbearance accrues interest. I don't know. You missed that in the fine print, but that's the issue with these save plans. People think, Oh, my gosh, thank you, government, as your balance balloons, unbeknownst to you.

Sure. So that's a very low payment, but it's our big... Currently, other than his student loans, that's our biggest debt.

What other debts do you have? You got 17, 12. What else?

So I've got But my vehicle has a little over $5,000 left on it, which I plan to pay off in a couple of months. And then his has $9,000. And then I have a credit card that has right at $9,000. And then we have furniture that we bought when we were freshly newlywet. I know it's a stupid thing.

How long you've been married?

We got married in May of 2025, so not within a year.

Oh, my gosh. You guys are truly newlywets.

Yes, truly. We are, and I'm trying to do it the right way and get everything paid off right now.

What's your household income?

Yeah, so we bring in $7,000 a month.

Okay, good. So here's the deal. You're going to list all these debts out. You're going to have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and list out all the debts, smallest to largest. Break them out individually. Not 12,000 student loans, but hey, there's seven with all these different balances. I don't care who's debt it is. We're going to list them all, smallest to largest balance, and then we're going to tack the little one. Do you guys have anything in savings right now?

Yes, we have about $4,400 in savings at the moment.

Great. So Baby Step $1,000 starter emergency fund, which means 3400 can go towards knocking out a few of these debts.

Sure.

And do you still have the credit card open? Is it in your wallet right now?

Yes, but I don't use it. I have not used it. It's already cut up. Last year, I actually led a Ramsey class, and I taught a Ramsey class, and I got my credit card then.

Good. Okay. Yes. Have you guys made progress since then? On these debts? Yes, we have. Yes, we have. Okay. What's been your plan thus far? Are you doing the debt snowball? Are you doing an every dollar budget?

Yeah, we're doing the debt snowball. My bank doesn't connect to the every dollar app for some reason, but I have a notes app, and I check our transactions every single night, and I take it out of each line item. Okay.

Well, this was one of these... You had a pile of debt, and now we just added to it. Unfortunately, yeah. And so it's just going to delay the debt-free journey, but at least you are clear on where you stand.

Absolutely, yeah. I really appreciate your help.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for calling. I was thinking as you were talking to her about the government trusting the delay, you're like, Oh, thank you, government. It reminded me the old phrase, Politician is the only people that when their hands are cold, they put their hands in your pocket.

Oh, that's a good analogy right there.

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I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. In one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

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That's a gut punch. You're telling me for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. They don't know what to do next.

Me too. It's terrifying.

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Com or call 800-356 All right, George, we're going to your old neck of the woods, Boston, Massachusetts. Tiffany is waiting for us there. Tiffany, how can we help?

Hey there. Hi. We moved to Boston in 2022 from Charlotte, North Carolina, and we planned on staying here for the long haul. But we got calls that my job was being moved back to Charlotte, North Carolina, and my husband got offered a leadership role with his group in Charlotte.

We're like, Oh, that worked out.

What are the chances within the same day, within an hour, let's sell the house and move back to Charlotte with our family and whatnot. So we're walking away with about, probably close to a little over 300,000 from selling our home. I'm torn on what to do next. We're limited in our buying pool because of schools. My son's getting ready to enter middle school. We don't want to, we'd rather bring him back to where he knows everybody and whatnot, but I don't see myself or see us staying there after he graduates high school. So I was crunching some numbers over the last week or so, and I'm like, Does it make sense to buy another house in Charlotte or to rent and maybe invest or maybe buy a house that maybe we see more long term or on the Coast or whatnot. I'm torn on which direction we should take on our next chapter.

How will that- How will that- on our next chapter? A couple of quick clarifying questions. He's just starting middle school, so what are we saying? Five years, Six years?

Exactly. I'm thinking in six to seven years now.

Six to seven. Then, okay, let's fast forward. Okay, great. Let's fast forward. It's his senior year, final semester, and you guys are moving to wherever, or you're in preparation to move wherever. How does that affect your jobs? Can you do those jobs remote, or are you guys cashing out of that, too?

Yeah. I guess it just depends. We make very good money. We'll be actually getting an increase when we move back to Charlotte, and cost of living is drastically different there.

What will your combined income be?

Yeah, it will be about 350.

Okay. All right. Keep going. Can you stay with this company, or How does that work?

Yeah, we can stay with the company. We work for major financial institutions. They're all around the country. My husband loves the job. So even we're okay with even staying in North Carolina, staying in Charlotte, but maybe just not that where we- Where you would be for 5-7 years.

I totally understand.

So you got to stomach it for seven years so that he can go to the school you want him to go to, right?

That's a good question. I'm going to defer. I've got an opinion, but I'm going to defer to my financial guru, buddy, next to me.

Here's how I'm thinking. What's your thinking? You have a strong financial position. You guys have no debt and savings, and you'll have 300 grand?

Yeah.

I would buy a house, and I would pay it off. I would buy a car. You have a car loan.

Okay.

Yeah, we do have two cars. I would clean that up as soon as possible, probably before you sell the house with your fantastic income. Just knock it out. And once you guys sell the house, I would just move as soon as you could to buy a house, and you put 300,000 down. What is a house going to cost in that area?

Yeah, so we were looking in the 400 range, 400 to 500. Oh, okay. We didn't want to go anywhere crazy, like here in Austin, where we have We're in the 1. 3. We're looking this out where I was like, No, I don't want to do that.

I'm trying to split the difference. Could you get a $550, $600, $1,000 home that you love that you could see yourself in for a decade?

Well, see, I don't like the houses that they live in.

No, I knew it.

You said in Boston.

You're saying in Austin. She doesn't like it.

Let me say this, Tiffany, so you don't have to. We're doing this for a kiddo because of his friends, but she don't like that area very much.

What area is this?

I'm just confused. Hold on. Am I right? You are. Yeah. No, don't buy. I would buy the cheapest house possible is what I was going to say. That's what I was thinking. A hundred %. I'd go smaller and cheaper than you'd even think just because it's temporary, but I think it's long enough that buying does make sense. I would never rent that long. So I'm with George on that. But I was thinking, let's go as small and as cheap as you can stomach because you're only doing this for- Tiffany's going to call back in two years and say, I hate this house. No, she's not. Get me out of here. No, she's focused. She's thinking about the next house.

The other thing to think about is resale value of what is an area that actually is going to grow and appreciate so this is a good financial decision as well.

That's what concerns me. So I've been doing a lot of... I like to crunch numbers and I was looking at the resale value. Right now, everyone in that area who purchased during the boom of 2019 are upside down on their homes.

So I'm like- What is going on in this area? Then this is the area with a great school that you want your kid to go to?

Charlotte, North Carolina. I don't think it's a great school.

It's just the school he knows.

It is a good school. I'll call it a good school. It is a great school. Highly rated.

Wait a second. You can't call it good and great.

I just feel like kids are resilient. If it's a wonderful neighborhood with a great school, he can flourish.

I'm playing with you, Tiffany. I'm having fun with you. I'm having a blast today. Here's the deal. Because of that, I believe that you should go smaller and cheaper. In other words, so let's say the top-level houses are 400, right?

Top-level houses are probably closer to the 8. I was thinking the cheaper, the 450 is what I was thinking.

But I know. But you're saying those are the ones where people are under Underwater.

Underwater, yeah.

Yeah, but I'm saying, is it just you, Hubs, and the kid?

Yeah, we're small.

We're three.

I'm going to tell you something.

I don't even want a big house.

See, okay, listen, I'm going to tell you something, and this is me, and that's what Dave has trained us to do, is to answer these questions, obviously within our principles, but how we would do it. If I'm you, I would, because this is a limited amount of time and your mind is already on the Coast, you got the four S's in your head, I think. Sun, sand, sea, and salt. Am I right? Yes. Come on. You're my person. That's how I like to roll.

That's why I moved to a cute little coastal town outside of Boston. I'm like, yes.

Yes. By the way, you're completely addicted. Once that sea water gets in your In your nose.

You can't go inland after that.

You can't go inland. Here's the deal. Because of that, George, Tiffany, if it were me, I'd be buying a townhome in a decent area. I'm going small Mall, two bedroom. If somebody wants to stay with us, kick the kid out, he can do an air mattress. I mean, that's me. I know that that's... But if my wife were here, she'd be like, You're so intense on all your decisions. But I don't need four bedrooms.

It's so funny because we went from 4,000 square foot home in Charlotte, because that's how they build them. They build them huge. We went to a cute little 2,000 square foot cave, and I told my husband, I'm like, I love it. I love the cute little house.

What does your husband think? We haven't brought him into the picture. Is he have opinions or is he like, whatever you want, honey?

He's so easy. He's excited we're going back to North Carolina to be closer to family. We're looking in the same neighborhood as his sister and their kids. So the kids are all going to be back together playing. So it's all positive. She's not where I... I've never felt Shirley. I'm from New York. Never felt Shirley.

But you're a good mom. There's no question. I think God's hand is all over this. I don't think this is the universe. I'm just going to say that. I think that because of this, if you take that 300,000, you need to pay the car off and whatever's left, get a cheaper house, smaller, get a good real estate pro, ramseysolutions. Com/agents, and get somebody who knows what you're trying to do. I think you put a huge chunk down knowing you're going to get all that back. I think you're going to get some appreciation in seven years, but there's no risk. You've just lowered your payments, and with that combined $350,000 salary, George, they're socking money away like crazy. Eazy, and then she goes to the Coast.

We're going from an $8,000 a month mortgage to probably, when I was currently, it's like $2,800. I'm like, What are we doing with that? We've never really... It's It's interesting to go to the reverse cost.

It ain't 2,800 if you buy what I'm telling you to buy. You buy some $250,000 townhome or $300,000 townhome with $200,000 down. I'm stacking money for the Coast.

I'm like an animal for seven years.

I'm thinking of the Coast. I'm thinking of the Coast, and I'm stacking money like crazy.

You stack 100 grand for seven years and invest that, you'll have over a million bucks to put towards this coastal home that you guys are dreaming of. That's what I'm thinking. I think you're on the right track. I would just say, let's go with some research and patience in a pro.

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Are If you're working the Baby Steps, the best way to do it is by using every dollar. Now, it's more than just a budgeting app. Now, we've built the Baby Steps into the app, and it has a coaching component. It's a whole Different product. Fantastic. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations for your situation, and you can get coaching. Did I tell you that? In the app. It's unbelievable. It's like having one of us walk with you every day. I don't know what that would be like. Without having to hear us. I think I would probably be a lot more fun to walk with than George because he's just so neurotic.

I feel like you have probably a mall walker's pace, which I think is a good pace.

It is. If you're walking with me, you're going to be a little tired, but you're going to feel good about it afterwards. If you're walking with George, you're going to be reminded of all the things that could go wrong in the world.

Is that fair? That's encouraging. Yeah, that's accurate.

No, I'm kidding. I love George, folks. It's just a joke, just sarcasm.

We're actual friends. That's right.

You can start every dollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's go to Madison, who... Oh, this is where George went to college, I believe. Mobile, Alabama. Madison, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Glad to talk to you. I have a calculation question. How do you determine or calculate what is appropriate to spend on a vacation? I'll add the caveat that this would be for our 15th anniversary.

Hey.

These are some of my favorite calls. I'm going to let George lead because there's a good chance I disagree with him.

Well, let's check off a few boxes. Are you completely debt free outside of a mortgage?

Yes.

Do you have an emergency fund saved up? We do. Great. How much are you planning to spend on this vacation? If you could just dream Dream it up, how much would it cost?

Well, that's a dangerous question because I'm both the nerd and the spender, so they're free spirit.

Which means you've done the research. So let's not dream it up.

Let's just think it. You've been thinking about it. What's the range that you think this is going to How many days?

So somewhere in the 5,500 to 8,000 range, all in, like flights, food, coffee at the airport, everything.

How many days?

Seven whole because 15 years deserves a whole week.

Let me tell you. Okay, and what's your income again? Did you tell us this already?

No, I didn't. What's the combined income? We're about to have an income change. I'll tell you in a couple of months where we'll be. We will be at combined $135.

Awesome. And when is this trip going to happen?

October.

Okay. And do you have the money now, or are you guys going to save up with a sinking fund to get there?

Kind of a both ends. So we're in Baby Step 4, we're investing 15 %. Everything extra is going to orthodontics or something comes up with the house. We have the cash on hand to save up, so we've got a little bit of it saved up enough to get the tickets at this point.

Great. So you can start the cash flow and then continue saving for the actual spending on the trip and all of that.

Yeah, absolutely. There's no budgetary strain between now and October to save the rest of the money.

It feels tight, but maybe it's just because it's a decision between, Well, we don't have a lot in the 529. Do we put more there? We got five kids, so there's always something.

You definitely need the seven-day vacation. All right? The kid's teeth can be straightened out later. I got to tell you.

That's our thought.

Madison, you're going on vacation. Congratulations.

Oh, good, George. Yes, I say go. And don't think twice about it. The kids will be fine.

Oh, I know they will. We're cashing in on the grandparent situation. I know they'll be fine. I'm not worried about it. I don't feel any guilt or anything.

It's more like- No, I meant the 529 and all the things.

You'll make up for a long time.

You can make up for that. This is huge. This is a big deal.

I'm excited for you guys. Well, that makes me feel better. Yeah, very good. Me too, man.

I'm counting down the days.

By the way, where is this trip? Do we know?

We're looking at St. Lucia.

All you had to say was Caribbean for me.

You could have started with that, and Ken would have been like, I don't care, you're going.

I'm telling you, I'm half pirate. I love the Caribbean. I love everything about If it's got Saint in front of it, count me in.

That's another thing. That's pretty much it.

If you just say Saint something, I'm like, Yeah, sure. I'll go there. Love it, love it, love it.

Unless it's St. Louis. I guess I'm not looking forward to my 15th anniversary in St.

Louis. Oh, George, now you went and offended everybody from St.

Louis. Wonderful city. Just not where I want to go for my 15th anniversary. I think that's fair.

Fair point. You pulled that out of the ditch.

Just want to make sure the good people of St. Louis are.

Nobody wants to go to the top of the Ark and take a selfie for your 15th.

I'm scared of heights, so no, thank you.

Let's go to Gina in New York City. Gina, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I'm just wondering what I should do with this $6,000 that I have saved. Should I save it for April? Because I know I'm going to have to pay my taxes. I'm an independent contractor. Or should I apply some of it towards my $9,000 credit card?

Do you have an idea what you're going to owe in taxes?

Last year, I made more money than I ever made before, and this year I made more than that. Last year, April, I ended up having to pay 8,000. That's why I'm like, maybe I just need to hold on to this and keep adding to it until I know exactly how much I'm going to have to pay in April.

Smart. That is wise. Here's what you don't want to do, is you use all this money to pay off debt, and then tax time comes, and you go, I owe the IRS money, and I don't have it. That's a dangerous game to play. I would wait. Do you do your own taxes, or do you work with the I work with an accountant. Okay, great. I would do that as soon as possible so that you know the exact number that will come out of that account on April 15th.

It sounds like, common sense here, that it's going to be closer to the 8,000, if not more, based on what you told us.

Yeah, I'm just with these possible overtime tax write-off that I've been going around, the rumors. My My husband has a regular job, and he does overtime, and he does a lot of overtime. I'm just wondering how that's going to factor into it as well.

Well, let me just stop you right there. We don't base this on rumors. Unless it's legislation that's been signed, then we're just fantasizing.

If it is, it's probably not for the previous tax year.

Well, his employer actually sent him an email saying that in 2025, when you file taxes for this year for 2025, that there's some type of a tax benefit for a little over time.

Okay. I would just look into that with your accountant.

We just want to make sure.

Okay. So homework is file your taxes with the accountant, find that number that you're going to owe, make sure you have that, and anything above and beyond that, we can start attacking the credit card debt sooner. But yes, I would be just stacking cash right now and not use it all toward your debt. This is a sinking fund to make sure that we are covered come tax time.

All right. Thank you guys so much.

Absolutely. George, it's such a great reminder. We don't want to hear something from somebody or we read something that we're not quite sure about, and it involves taxes. We want to get on the phone today You don't have to have your tax statements or your withholding forms to call the accountant. She should be on the phone, and Gina, you're listening. You're calling your tax pro today to say, I've heard this. Is this true? Based on this, and again, they can give you ballpark, but if it's significantly more money you made last year, again, just the way I would take it, I would put more back. I would be saving another couple grand, minimum, pretty darn soon.

A good reminder for anyone who is self-employed, 1099, you should be paying quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website to avoid this gigantic, scary bill that you can't afford on April. Log in every quarter and work with your tax pro. If you use tax software, you can calculate how much you should be paying in taxes and to send the IRS some money ahead of time.

Absolutely true. Stacey and I, before I came to Ramsey, we had our own company, and our accountant had us do that. We were paying quarterly taxes. Sometimes we'd get a little bit back if the estimate was a little bit too much, but you'd rather that.

Well, you could get hit with penalty and fees if you don't do that, too. That's correct. You want to do it by the book. If you guys want a great tax pro, a CPA-enrolled agent, we vet them. We have a whole network of tax pros to connect you to that will help you just like Ramsey would. You can reach them at ramseysolutions. Com/taxpro and find one in your area. Don't wait. Don't be that person who's April 13th. You're like, I guess I should probably look into getting those taxes done. I like to get them done early. I don't know if you can tell just by my face, I'm a guy who's like, Let's knock this out.

Yeah, and this might shock you because I tend to be a little bit seat of the pants. I as well like to get as soon as we get the stuff, I can get it right in. Wow. I can get it right in. Get the paperwork. Yeah. We got a local tax pro, and I got the double whammy benefit. My tax pro works in the office for my smart vestor pro. Wow. It's all in the same building.

Really keeping it in the family.

I like one stop, folks. One stop.

Take care of it all. Ken's dentist is also in there. That's wonderful.

I got a haircut there. We're looking for a masseuse, by the way. You already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Campbell. We're excited to be here for you today. The phone number to jump in, 888-825-225, 888-825-5225. Tim is up next in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Tim, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

Back in 2023, my wife and I did IVF, and the IVF medical company we went through didn't have the greatest billing department. They made some errors billing us for things we didn't get done, and we addressed it with them. And now it's two years later, and they have sent it to collections. We're getting calls and mail from a crushing company, trying trying to get the money back. And we want to know, Hey, it hasn't been resolved on there, and we don't feel like we should pay this amount of money that's left over. So we seem stuck. I mean, on one hand, yeah, we just pay and be done with it. But for me, that's the issue.

No, no, no. Let me jump in to ask, you said just now that you resolved this. When you resolved it in the past, and somebody acknowledged that those were erroneous charges, do you have paper record, like electronic record of all of this.

No, I'm sorry. What I meant was it wasn't resolved. We paid what we're supposed to pay, but for the erroneous billing, we haven't paid that yet.

Who did you pay? When you say you paid what you were supposed to pay. You paid the IVF clinic? That's correct. Yes. Okay. And then you got a separate bill from the IVF clinic or straight from collections? Because IVF clinic should have been sending you bills first.

Correct. Yes, they did. And we reached out to them saying, This isn't correct. It needs to be rectified. They said, Oh, we'll take you have a look into it. Months, months, months went by. Pretty much years. And so now is the first time we're hearing from this collection companies saying, Hey, is there any bills from the company?

Right. Now, my next question is, do you have records of proof? Can you prove that you never got these services?

You never got the itemized bill.

In other words, is there some paper trail between you and the clinic that would prove that you never got the services that they're billing you for?

In a sense, yes. The code they put in for the services that we had, we never had done. So in a sense, yes, I have that. And maybe we could even ask the physician himself because we know him as a friend, and he could say, yes, that was never done either.

Tim, no, no, no, no, be talking to the doctor who's my friend.

Well, we actually have. Unfortunately, he doesn't work here anymore.

Doesn't matter. Can he validate on the record that he never treated you in the way that they build you? It's a yes or no question.

We did ask that.

What?

I mean, I can ask him again. That's not, unfortunately, not his area, his expertise of billing. We can try again to ask him.

No, no, no, no, no. Again, I'm a bulldog on this because you called for help. Okay? So George, back me off here if I need to back off. This guy is the doctor who treated you and your wife. Yes or no?

Yes.

Okay. You have talked to him about this before to say, They have charged us for services charges, and I'm not going to ask you to say what it is. It doesn't matter. But you've talked to him about it and said, They've charged us for this, and you didn't do that. Have you had that conversation with him? Yes. What did he say? He agreed, Yes, I did not do that.

It was more so it's not something that he has knowledge of as far as billing.

I didn't say about billing. I'm saying they've charged you for something He has acknowledged or can acknowledge that he did not treat you for that. Forget the billing part. He can testify. Yes or no?

No, that hasn't happened. Okay.

But my point is, he could testify, he could do an affidavit. If I was going to fight this, that's where I would be going. We know the doctor, and the doctor said he didn't do this. If I got to hire a lawyer, George, not a lot of hours, but just somebody who can say, All right, we're going to fight this, and here's how, and we're going to tell the company to pound sand. We're not going to pay you for this.

Have you been in contact with the collection company?

I have. I let them know the erroneous bills. They put it on pause. They came back to us about a month later saying, We reach out to this company, the IVF company, and here's what they say, you still owe it. So they're not really doing anything about it.

No, you need to get a debt validation letter. Yes.

Okay.

And then you need to get the itemized bill from the clinic that's correct. Yeah. And those two things, they should be in conflict, where the itemized bill says one thing that says you don't owe, and then the collection company then has to get rid of the faulty debt.

Let me tell you something else I would do. If this were me, Tim, I would literally go into the clinic and ask to meet with the office manager, whoever's in charge. When can I get on your schedule?

You need to get a retroactive Yeah. It's a massive coding audit from the billing Department. You just mentioned the word compliance. They're going to be like, Oh, crap. We got to deal with this.

You mentioned the doctor and go, I'm willing to ask our friend to go on the record. We're just not playing around.

The truth of the point is, They write a business in our area and they're gone, so I can't even go into the office now.

The IVF? Why wouldn't you lead with that, Tim? The place isn't even in business, so there's no billing Department to deal with.

Nationally, they are in other states, not in our state.

Okay, so getting I'll get in touch with the corporate billing Department and say, Hey, this location closed down. This is not difficult. I have this bad debt. I need a debt validation. I need an itemized bill from you guys. I need a coding audit. Here's the account number. I feel like this is partially on you, Tim, because you've been letting this just fester for years, and you just gave up and went, Well, I guess we'll just deal with that five years from now. I can definitely handle that.

Tim, honestly, if we were to have a doctor come in here and check my blood pressure versus yours, I'm more pissed off about this than you are. For you. You are in the right, yes or no. Yes. Yes. Say it with some conviction, man. Fight this. This is obnoxious because, George, you're the expert on this. It's my belief that he does all these things. Everybody gets together. It's the powers that be, get together and go, Okay, this guy, Tim, is right. And not only is Tim right, I'm waking up at 2: 00 AM in the morning thinking about Tim, and I'm done. Because I promise you, if this were me, this thing would be resolved fast.

I would not let slumber to my eyes until this thing was handled. Tim, this is where you got to be the squeaky wheel. You've got to be contacting them so often. They've got your number, they've got it listed. Oh, Tim's calling again. Who wants to handle this one? Eventually, you're going to get to the bottom of this. But the truth is, you just gave up too soon.

Nobody over there, by the way, over there being the clinic and the collection, nobody over there cares about you.

Sure. The healthcare system in general is full of incompetence. So your job is to be so persistent to correct their competence that you win the game.

That you flip it from they don't care about you to they care deeply about making this right so they never have to think of your name again. This is the level of intensity. The sword of righteousness. It's a fiery sword, and we are swinging it at everybody in our path because you're trying to screw me.

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Today's question comes from Hunter in Arizona. My dad gave me an RV when I was 18. I'm now 24, married and have two little girls. It is a very nice RV, and I'm very well accustomed to the RV life, but my wife refuses to live in, quote, something that doesn't have a foundation. The goal. We could sell our house, buy land with cash, and live for free instead of paying our 1,500 $1,500 mortgage every month. My wife would prefer to move in to her parents and pay $850 a month for rent and utilities. It's a great deal, but I think owning land and having no payments other than utilities is much better. Which is the better choice?

I don't like any of these.

Yeah, these all sound like- Because if I'm reading this right, George, one option is sell the current house, buy land with cash, and live in the RV.

Am I reading that right?

It says, and live for free.

Which means the RV.

Yeah, that's not a But he already lays out that the wife's not doing that.

She counters with, let's move into our parents house, her parents house. None of these are good options, it sounds like to me. It sounds like everybody's unhappy.

The question is, is the $1,500 mortgage Is that sinking them right now? We have no other information about this. We don't know. I'm going to say no. Let's assume they can afford it. I think they just don't like paying it based on their framing here, we could sell our house and buy land with cash.

Yeah, this guy wants to park the RV on the land. His wife's like, No chance. I'll say no and raise you. We move into my parents house. Who wants to move into their in-law's house?

Live with mom and dad or live like you're in Breaking Bad. I don't care what the price is. Both of these are terrible options. I would rather you guys go rent somewhere if you can't afford this mortgage right now, if it's a really crisis situation.

I'd sell the RV. Stay in the current house.

You said you're accustomed to the RV life. Your wife refuses. I don't think she even likes the RV life.

I'm fairly certain she hates the very concept.

I think it's okay to admit your life changed. Yes, it's sentimental because your dad gave it to you when you were 18, then you will grieve that. But it's just a thing going down in value. It's just a hunk of metal. If you want an RV in the future, you can always buy one. But if you're in a pinch, I would sell it, pay off any debt you have, get to a better place financially, and then see, is this mortgage sustainable for the long-term future?

The only RV I would ever buy would be the model from Christmas Vacation.

Oh, the exact replica? Well, yeah.

If you could find that year, that model- That's probably a hot commodity. I don't think so. It's a piece of crap. But then you could basically save it. It's just like it's nothing. This is cash. This is me. I'm basically parking it somewhere until the day after Thanksgiving, at which point I create a Christmas display somewhere with that.

Charge five bucks a pop to walk in there and all of a sudden- Pays for Christmas. Billion dollar idea.

You were doing custom cocktails in the little RV. There's a guy in the lobby that's already ready to go.

That's actually... You've had worse ideas.

And you know what it is? Everybody gets a moose glass. You see where I'm... Everybody, it's like, I'm going to charge you too much for the Christmas cocktail, but you get the moose glass and you get your picture, and I have a cousin Eddie guy standing out there in his robe.

The whole thing. If this was Shark Tank, all the sharks would be chomping at the bit for this idea.

I got to find me one of those RVs. Stacey's going to hate this idea.

We'll look at the break.

For the record. All right. Seth is up in Los Angeles. Seth, how can we help today?

I'm in a contract on a house that I still have time to back out of. However, I'm realizing the solar lease is problematic because it's a 22 year contract. And if I want to buy out the contract, it's $45,000.

No, thank you.

Why are we not making the seller buy it out? As part of the deal?

The The seller in the contract that we're in escrow on said that the solar goes with the house. So I haven't posed a new option.

Sure, the solar stays on the house, but you should not be on the hook for this whole thing, for his bad decision that he's now trying to get out of.

It's just not worth it, is it?

Yeah, it might be a next of kin scenario to where they're getting rid of the house and they don't want to pay into it at all. So I don't know the entirety of this situation, but I do. I think it might be a next of kin just trying to suck up as much money as they can on the sale.

A hundred %.

So this is, how much did you say? The buyout?

The house?

The solar.

The buyout of the solar is $45,000.

Over 22 years.

That's if I want to buy it out. I think they call it a balloon lease, to where every year it goes up by 3. 5 %. And so right now my electric bill would be 145-ish, and by the end of year '22, it would be 316. I'm currently living alone, and probably would not use that much electricity.

So what made you agree to this?

Yeah, why did you sign the contract?

I didn't realize it was that problematic at the time.

Did your realtor not go, Hey, man, just FYI?

The contract was sent to me. The realtor did not realize it was a 22 year contract and the buyout. I had to do that digging myself to figure out what the buyout was because they did not give her that No, I don't have that information either.

Well, you know what? It doesn't matter because you're telling me you can get out of it, correct? Correct. Walk away, man.

Get out of this thing. Think about it. You're paying new system money for old panels. A whole new system should be less than $45,000. Your 22-year lease kills any resale value because you're not going to be in there for 22 years. You're assuming all the risk for the solar, the maintenance, the roof issues, and there's zero upside. You didn't get the tax credit, you didn't choose the system. This was a terrible deal all around. So I would say, Dodge the bullet and get out of this.

Yeah, that is initially my thought process as well. The question also poses if it's about $25,000 below comps and the seller is paying for all essential costs of realtor fees and inspection fees and those things.

It's still not worth it. You're still on the hook for this debt.

You're trying to talk yourself into this.

I would go, Hey, if you want to cover the buyout, I'm in. Otherwise, no deal. Okay. That's it. You play hardball now. Yeah.

You've got walkaway power, I hope.

There's other houses that you can get a deal on that aren't stuck with this terrible debt attached to it.

All right.

Hey, this is very simple for us. We walk away from this one. Term your favorite walk away song, whatever that is, and get it in your head before you call them up. Maybe walk on by you two. I don't know. That's what I would choose. I'm going to call them, get to get fired up, pumped up, tell my realtor, I'm done. Then let's see what the negotiation looks like then. By the way, one of our amazing teammates, Will Rudder, just texted me, and The RV is a 1971 Ford Condor camper. I'm interested in buying anything with the name Condor. Okay? Strong. Do you know what I'm saying? That sucks me in a little bit. Are you Have you seen any prices for those, George?

I see one bid for the chance.

What are we talking about? I need to know what the market is. The one you sent me, Will, is right in the range. It's pretty good beat up. Then I would hire an artist To make it look like the one in the movie, you know what I mean? They could probably do with it some type of sandblasting or something like that. It looked like it had a lot of rust on it.

Are you coming up with anything? You're not the only one, Ken. I just found a forum where someone said, I'm looking for the motorhome like Cousin Eddie had in the movie. Oh, yeah. You're not the first one to think of this.

I never said I was.

I think this guy wants to get to your business idea first.

But I don't know how many people are thinking about it turning into a seasonal bar. See, I'm thinking moneymaker.

This feels like a retirement dream because it's going to cost I don't think it's going to make you money.

I disagree.

And talk in your life into it.

The only cost is buying one of these things. All right, we'll stay with the research and see what the market is. Do you want to take a guess? What it would cost? I'm going to say people are charging 50 grand or more for something like that.

If they know what they got.

Who doesn't know they have a Condor?

There might be some old guy out there who hadn't seen a movie since 1968.

I don't know. It's the greatest Christmas movie of all time. I think if you got a Condor, you know you got a Condor. You know what you got.

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All right, Jeff is up next in Minneapolis. Jeff, how can we help?

I just wanted to get some money advice or real estate advice, both, I guess.

We will allow both of those today. We're feeling very generous.

Awesome. Good.

Go ahead. What's up?

Okay. Well, the real estate part of it is it's Our daughter's house that I'm wondering about. She got divorced about a year ago, and she got the house, but she also got the mortgage with it. But there's plenty of... There's about half of it. She has good assets. Half the value. But she had to refinance it for half of it. And she really can't afford it, so we've been helping her. And just wondering if we did the wrong thing, probably cosigning for it so she could qualify and Oh, you cosign for the mortgage? We did, yes. For the refinance, yeah.

And you're helping her.

Because she can't afford the payments right now. She's going to school and working part-time, yes.

So how much are you guys giving her every month?

Well, it varied. I mean, sometimes she'd come up with a full mortgage. Got close to Christmas there. We didn't even see a payment through on then. So it's been biting us a little bit there.

And she's working full-time?

Part-time, and going to school for teaching right now, too.

Okay, what is she doing for work?

She's working in a school setting as a pair of professionals, they call them.

Okay, so let's fast forward. She's done with school. She's a teacher making, I don't know, $50,000.

Is that- Yeah, maybe a little more up in this area.

Can she afford her life on her own in this house at that time? Or is it still going to be tight?

I guess time would tell.

What's the- Well, let's ask you specifically, what's the mortgage payment?

Mortgage is 1,700 a month.

So there's your answer.

I don't think this is sustainable. No, I don't either. I think you need to have a hard conversation with her and say, Hey, we're going to need to sell this house. It's not sustainable for you. It's not sustainable for us. She can rent for the time being, right, while she's in school?

Yeah. Up here, there's not a lot of good areas, I was in.

How old is she?

She's 43. We're just looking out for the grandkids, mostly.

How old are they?

Thirteen and 10. I don't want to have to see them get taken out of the house right away.

I know we don't. But I know we don't. But this is not sustainable, as George said. You're a great father, by the way. You are a phenomenal dad. But this isn't your burden. Thank you.

This could be forever.

This could be, yeah.

Because once she gets used to you floating two grand a month, why would she go up? I don't want to take that anymore. Maybe at some point she gets on her feet, but that could be years and years from now.

But she actually can get on her feet if you get her out of this pit.

That's what I say, but she could probably go put a good down payment somewhere cheaper and have a smaller payment for sure.

Right, but that's my point. Let's get out of this house. You guide her through this. Say, Hey, we've been helping you this way, but it's actually not helping. We're just spending our tires. Here's how we want to help you. We're going to guide you through this. Let's sell the house, get out from underneath this, get a lower payment if she needs to rent for a year or two until she gets the teacher salary. The kids are going to be fine. As long as the 10 and the 13-year-old are with her, their life, by the way, has already been wrecked. It's not the house they need. They need her. To be completely honest with you, that house has got some drama associated with it. For sure, yeah. So I could make the case that the best thing to do, not just financially, George, emotionally, I think this is the best thing to do.

I'm thinking of an Smith, though. It's such beautiful property.

Again, you know what you keep doing, though? You keep trying to justify pouring money into this pit that she cannot get out of.

If you want it so bad, she can sell it to you. It can be yours to deal with.

Let's put this way.

I actually thought about that, but I don't know if I want to go that route. I don't want to own a property in the country.

You just told us it was a beautiful property and it could be a great investment. So which one is it?

It is a great investment, but I don't want to live here.

Okay, then we need to get out of it. There's a lot of beautiful properties that I don't want to own, and this is one of them. So here's the deal. Are you guys in a good place financially?

We're sitting okay. Yeah. I'm retired. My wife's still working.

Okay. I mean, what's your net worth?

Maybe about $500,000.

Okay, so you're not in a place to go buy property. You're not in a place to float your daughter a few grand a month. And I think you need to be honest with her and just tell her, Hey, we've been artificially propping this whole situation up. We love you. We want to help you, but we can't take this mortgage on, and you can't either. And we need to face the reality here.

That's probably good advice.

That's what I call it. Do you guys have room in the house if she temporarily stayed with you?

No, but there's another... She's involved with someone else, and she's barely at this house, actually, because she's at his house.

Whoa. Okay, so there's another man in the picture.

Yeah, he's got a cabin, so they're up there all the time.

You keep giving us more reasons to list this house this afternoon.

I agree, but I come up here and ski, and I use it as a recreational property for me.

Oh, so now Papa's got some benefits here. Jeff enjoys this house. This isn't about her.

Well, maybe not.

I'm going to remove the maybe. It's not about her. She's in the cabin with the new dude, and you're the one that's up there skiing and telling us how great a property it is, but I don't want to live here. I got to say for a guy who cosign on who needs more net worth, I would be unloading this house.

And by the way, this is already messy. Who's going to get all the equity when you sell?

She will.

So you're not taking a dime from the proceeds of the house?

I'm hoping that she'd have enough where she could reimburse some of the money we've been throwing out there.

Well, that's a whole new conversation. Have you guys talked about that and agreed to it when you cosign the mortgage? Is it, Hey, you're going to reimburse us for what we've paid you? Because that'd be a shock to me if I was your son and this was a big surprise at the end.

Yeah, I mean, you knew she wasn't going to make the payment with her income of what she was making.

I'm not so sure you didn't go, Well, I really like the skiing up in this part of the woods, and I could help my daughter out at the same time. I mean, can you not get a Motel 6 near the ski slope? Yeah, I know. They tell me they leave the light on.

It's actually more the kids than me, I think, for me.

Oh, no, you're all over the place, man.

I'd love to play poker against you. Are the kids staying there alone while she's at the cabin? How is this working?

I suppose that you guys are both talking.

I couldn't hear.

I know. It's my fault. I was trying to be smart, Alex. Go ahead, George.

I'm just confused. It's about the kids now, but the kids are staying at the house. She's at this other guy's house. I'm just confused by the whole situation.

They all go to the other guy's house.

They go there, they stay here. Great. It's clear that this house means not a lot to these kids anymore. They're already getting taken every which way to different houses. So what's the difference? I would sell this and get out from under it, take all the risk out from under your feet, and then you can go rent a spot if you want to go ski anytime you want. And with the money you save from getting out of this dumpster fire, you can afford to go enjoy some skiing.

Sorry, Jeff. I mean, we're for you. You called us. You talked yourself right into the corner.

I knew what you guys were going to say. I listen to you guys all the time.

That's good. I'm glad we didn't disappoint. That's always That's good. But you're a good man. But, hey.

The key is, here's the principle underneath it. If you're going to help, it should be, one, temporary, two, intentional, three, conditional. That's what you need. Not open-ended, not, well, it could be a good investment, and we're going to cosign. There needs to be very clear boundaries anytime you help someone. We never loan money, so I like that you didn't do that. But if it's going to be a gift, it needs to be, Hey, we're going to gift you this for the next six and here's what's going to happen after that. You're going to be out of school. You're going to have a job. You're going to be taking this on. We will not be giving you another dime after that. And that's not callous. That's actually good for her because she's a grown woman, and she needs to live her own life and not be propped up Mom and Dad at this point.

And he could take that savings, maybe invest in me with my Christmas pop-up with the Condor.

Yeah, you want this to be a safety net, not a hammock, and it's quickly turning into the ladder. I'll just ship it up to the ski area.

We'll just park it outside the lodge. Me and Jeff sitting out in our laundry. Let go of the dream, Ken. I believe they call that a callback, James. All right, folks, you know this, buying or selling a home is a very, very big deal, and you don't want to mess that up. You want to go into it clear-eyed, level-headed, ready to go. You do that by using our Ramsey Trusted program to find a top agent you can trust in your area to make this whole process, whether you're buying or selling a blessing, not a burden. You can find a local Ramsey Trusted real estate pro for free by going to ramseysolutions. Com/agent, ramseysolutions. Com/agent, or we have a link in the show notes. Let's go to my friend Ken, and I'm friends with all Ken's, George.

You've never met a Ken you didn't like.

It's a great name, and you just know it's a solid person. Ken is joining us in San Francisco. Ken, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on?

So my wife would like me to sell our truck and get a newer truck. And I'm not sure if that's a great idea. And also, if I end up selling it, how much truck I could afford.

Oh, this is one of George's favorite things to talk about. So hit us with the details.

Let's get into it. It's a 2000 Ford Ranger. It's got low miles, and it's had a couple of issues, but I'm able to work on a truck that old. I like low registration and insurance payments, and I own it outright.

Can we say that's a fantastic truck, that little Ford Ranger.

I missed those old ones. Perfect size. That's the truck I would have if I was a truck guy.

I was getting ready to say, short guys like us, if we drive trucks, it's a Ford Ranger. No question.

Okay, so your wife, what does she think about this? Do you think it's a death trap? What is her reasoning for why you need a new truck? Yes, that's exactly it. She believes it's unsafe for the kids and also has bad paint fade. So I think she just also doesn't like driving it around. Just the curb appeal is off putting to her.

She doesn't like the patina, huh?

Now, where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt?

So we have zero debt besides the house. And other than that, we have a high-yield savings account with approximately $125,000.

Okay. Buy a truck, dude. What are we doing here? Oh, no.

There's no need to shout, George.

I'm not saying don't buy a brand new truck, but could you get a new to you truck for... What's your household income? It's approximately $330,000. Oh, boy.

Your wife has just got the patience of Job.

Dude, this is like extreme chipskates level.

This is wild. By the way, it takes one to no one. When George says that, that means you've been diagnosed.

If I'm telling you to buy a new truck, okay. What truck would your wife like you to have, and what's the price point of said truck? So if I was to get a new truck, I was looking at a used Toyota Tacoma, maybe in the 2020-year range, so approximately $30,000. I would do it yesterday. Wow.

Wow, George.

This is all green lights.

This is so fun.

This is a rare truck guy. Most truck guys are broke with huge payments, and their truck payment is more than their mortgage.

Ken, is your wife near you right now by any chance?

Yeah, she is.

Can she hear this call?

She can, yes.

Good. I just want to make sure that she heard that George said, Do it. Buy the truck.

Here's the parameter. Make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life is no more than half of your annual income. Check. Pay cash. Check. Be debt-free with an emergency fund. Check. So you are all green lights.

Make your wife happy.

Check. You're not doing anything out of control. You should have a little party to say goodbye the eye to this truck because I think it's fantastic. It's sentimental. You can frame a picture of it in the house. Well, you know what?

Actually, a quick question because I was thinking about this. How much is that? I don't know what a 2000 Ford Ranger would cost in that condition. Do you have any idea what you could get for it?

I believe I could get around $6,000 for it.

All right. Can I throw something out, George?

Sure.

Well, let me ask a question before I throw it out. Ken, do you need the $6,000 from the Ford Ranger How much do you need that money to buy the truck that you want to get?

I don't particularly need that. He doesn't need it.

Okay. Can I suggest that because- You wanted to keep it, don't you? He likes it a lot.

You got room for an extra ugly truck around the house, or does she not want to see it? We do have room for it. Yeah, I could probably keep it. That's an idea.

Well, does she want it gone from her existence is what we're getting at?

I think she just doesn't want to pick up the kids in school with it.

Well, would you like to keep it, or was this just all financial, and it was the concept of how little money you were putting into it? Or do you want to keep it?

It drives great, so I wouldn't have a problem keeping it.

I'm going to throw it out there.

Well, here's the good news. I'm going to throw it out there. You can go buy the truck tomorrow and not have to sell this one. And so it's not like an on fire situation. That's why I'm, yeah. But my guess is your wife's about to call 1-800 Got Junk and get this thing out of the driveway.

It's worth six grand.

Yeah, but I'm just saying she wants it gone. And for those reasons, eventually you have to let go of things. I think it's been high time. How long have you had it? I've had it approximately three years now. Oh, okay. It's a new truck to you. Yeah, I had a commuter before and my commute got short, so I got a truck.

Oh, man, Ken, you are special in a good way. The fact that you love that 2000 Ford Range or Patina, the pain The six figures in savings making $300,000.

I love this guy. And we're arguing over.

But this is the next door. This is the everyday. This is the millionaire that you don't see coming because he's rolling up in a 2000 Ford Ranger. I love it. Ken, do you mind asking what is your retirement portfolio?

Right now, I have a four, five, seven with approximately 380,000 in it. Yeah. Fantastic.

Yeah, he's rocking. What's your house worth?

The house is between $900 and a million.

And what do you owe on it?

We owe $315.

Fantastic. So you guys are baby steps millionaires.

Yeah, no question.

Yeah. Thanks to my dad listening to you, to Dave, back in the day. That's amazing. Here's the cool news. I'm not saying you should do this, and I wouldn't, but you could buy a new car because we tell people, Hey, if you're going to get a new car, you got to wait till you got a million dollar net worth for a simple reason. It's too much of your world wrapped up in something going down in value before you hit that milestone. Okay. I like the cheap insurance and registration, but I hear you. I'm sure you've done your research to find what trucks have the cheapest insurance. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. This guy researches. I like this.

This guy could sub in for you. Absolutely. You two are wired. We could do a car segment. Exactly the same. Yeah, I love it.

I'd swap this Ken for this Ken any day.

Well played.

I love it.

Thanks for the call, Ken. I don't blame He's far more your guy than me.

I needed a win today. I was feeling like a real fuddy-duddy. It feels good to deliver some good news.

It does, doesn't it? Really important. By the way, I do think it's important. We have new people all the time, so I'm thinking new listener, new viewer. I want you to explain, again, a little bit more detailed as to why we do that formula of how much the car versus... I just think it's important to explain the why, not just the what.

Easy math. Not just the what. If you have a household income of $100,000, then everything with wheels and motors in your life, that could be an RV, a boat, cars, should not add up to more than $50,000. Half. That's the top limit.

And why?

The reason is those things are going down in value. So you got a depreciating asset. And so if you have $80,000 worth of car and you make $100,000, that is so much of your world that is literally tanking. And so you don't want to make these decisions, especially with debt, because here's what we see. They buy the $40,000 truck with a payment. So It costs them $50,000, and six years later, that thing is worth $20,000. Now you've got a real problem. You're underwater within a year on this truck, and you've paid way more than it's worth. That puts people in a bind. The good news is you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater.

That's exactly right. Because let's play that scenario out. Let's go what you said. If you have a million dollars in networth or more, and you buy a brand new car, and something life-changing financially happens, where do you sit?

Well, you're sitting with a paid-for car- That you can unload. No debt with a sizable networth, a nest egg. So you can stomach that appreciation. It's all about ratios. You got to go, Well, this guy makes $300,000, so he can buy a $30,000 truck. The person calling in who makes $40,000, I'm going to tell them to sell that truck if that's in their life. It's not that expensive truck equals bad. It's are you doing this on a place of financial strength versus it really being a detriment to your financial future? Yeah.

We should have told Ken, and he's still listening, get a steak dinner tonight. Absolutely. Celebrate the fact that your wife is going to be so happy with this decision.

And eat it in the truck. It's a date night with the truck. In the new truck?

In the old truck. I like the old truck because you don't want to get the old grease on the new seats. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, Georgia George Campbell joins me. All of a sudden, I can't talk.

Sometimes it happens. I have that effect on people.

Speechless. It's your cologne. It throws me off.

I think more of it, it's a musk.

That's what it is. 888-825-5225 is the number to join George and I. We're having fun today, as we always do, but we're going to help you in the process. Joe is up in Orlando, Florida. Joe, how can we help?

Hello. How are you guys today?

We're having a blast. How are you?

Good, good. Well, I'm hoping you guys can settle a disagreement between my husband and I about paying off our mortgage.

Okay.

I believe we should use a mutual fund that we have to pay it off right now, and he would rather do it with cash flow.

Give us the numbers. How much to pay off the house?

The balance on the mortgage is about $29,000 Okay.

If we don't pay it out of the mutual fund, if we were to do husband's plan, what is the date? Is he attaching a date by which it's paid off through your normal income?

About six months to a year. Six months would be really aggressive, and a year would be a little less aggressive, of course.

How much is that? It doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. How much is the house worth?

The house is worth about 700,000.

Give us your retirement portfolio.

We have about $850,000 in just retirement savings.

Then non-retirement, what do you have?

Well, we have the mutual fund that is worth about $37,000. We have cash, about another $60,000 of other liquid cash between our bank accounts.

Why not just use the cash?

Because we've got some other large purchases that we need to make this summer.

Okay, and what's the priority? Is it the large purchases this summer? Yes, we need to buy another- Nothing's on fire with the mortgage. It's getting paid off. Let's say it's going to happen within the next 6 to 12 months, no matter how we do it. Can we agree on that? Yes. Now everyone's happy already.

Yes.

So now it's just what strategy and tactic are we going to use to get there? Mutual fund, cash, putting extra through, future income. And then these future purchases, is this going to drain the savings, or do you have another emergency fund?

It wouldn't drain the savings, no. We just have to buy another vehicle for my son who's become of driving age.

What are we looking at? What are we thinking about spending on that?

Well, he's going to get his brother's older car, and then we're going to replace that car. About a $25,000 purchase is what we're looking at.

Okay. I'm just doing the math. So that leaves us 35, right? Right. Okay. And what's the other big... You said, plural, purchases.

We may have to replace our roof.

Okay. What's that going to cost?

Well, probably about 15.

Okay, so that gets us down to 20.

And that's if we don't replenish it and put more money in there as we go.

Correct. Okay.

Do you have an emergency fund separate of this $60,000 in cash?

No.

Okay. Well, what is a three to six month emergency fund for you? What's that amount?

About $30,000.

Perfect. How about after these large purchases are complete, we replace the roof, get the car, anything above the 30 goes toward the house, and then anything that's remaining on the mortgage we take from the mutual fund. Deal?

Deal.

Then we don't deplete the mutual fund, which, by the way, here's my rub with what you guys... Here's what happened. Here's what went wrong. You were investing money with no purpose, or there was a purpose, and now you decided, I want a different purpose than he had in mind.

It's a very old mutual fund. It's a mutual fund that I started from a car accident money when I was quite young. So it's just leftover. So it's been there for quite some time.

Okay, so this is just bonus money that's been sitting around. Obviously, you're going to have some capital gains taxes, so I would look into that. I don't think that's why he didn't want to liquidate it, but that could be part of the reason.

But I will tell you, I'm going to throw a different scenario out. Because you said if we got aggressive, we could pay it off in six months. If If you didn't get aggressive, normal cash flow, this house is paid off in 12 months. I don't like taking a tax hit to do this. I actually am in agreement with your husband. Because of these other expenses, George, I'm just going to stick to it. You guys have been very aggressive, I mean, very committed to do this. I just wouldn't empty. I wouldn't take any money out of the mutual fund. I think I'd pay this off in 6 to 12 months out of our normal cash flow and have the cash for all the other things that you got to do. Don't touch the emergency fund. That's just where I'm at. But that's only because, George, I don't disagree with your opinion. I just don't want to use that mutual money for this.

Well, that's why I asked him to calculate it because it might not be as much as you think. If they're only taking out $5,000 and the capital gains was $2,000 and then you're paying 15% of $2,000, now we're talking a few hundred bucks. I don't think it's as scary as hundreds of thousands being liquidated. But, Joe, I think there's a good compromise here. I don't think either of you are wrong. You guys are being very intentional with paying this mortgage off. Now, if he said, I never want to pay it off, then I would think we'd have a bigger problem here. But it's really just about tactics and semantics. I think splitting the difference, I want you both to feel like we both lost and we both won. That's marriage.

But a great situation to be in.

So good for you. Congratulations. Baby Steps Millionaire is about to have a paid-for house. So fun. It's a good life. Good problem to have.

Steve is up in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Steve, how can we help?

Hey, thank you so much taking my call. Sure. I'm 36 years old.

My wife is 31.

We're on Baby Step number seven. We're debt free. Our house is paid off. All of our cars are paid off. But we're thinking about buying a bigger house, something that's going to put us about $500,000 in debt, again.

How much did you have the first time?

So our house is worth about $350,000. We're not sure if maybe rent it out to get a little bit of extra income.

No, we're not going to have a mortgage on the other house and have this investment property over here. I would say just sell it, use all the proceeds to put towards the next house. You're talking about a $750,000 $300,000, $800, $1,000 house?

No, I was talking about a $500,000, $550,000 house.

Okay. Well, if you put your $300,000 in proceeds that you'll get from selling yours, now we're talking about a $200,000 mortgage. Right. That you'll pay off how quickly?

Well, my first mortgage was probably around 160, and I paid it off in seven years.

Okay. Well, can you guys pay it off more aggressively in this case? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Obviously, 10 years ago, we were not making as much as we are now.

Okay. And what's your take home pay every month as a household?

Every month... So my yearly salary, or combined yearly salary is about 150,000. Okay. Base salary is about $50,000 each, and then we get commissions, tips, bonuses from our businesses.

So healthy six-figure income. You can easily afford a $200,000 mortgage, and let's make a spit shake and go, Hey, we're going to pay this thing off in three years. And that way you're not going backwards for a long period of time. It's not a sin to go from baby step seven back to six, but we don't want to hang out there for seven years either. Why the- So I sell the house.

Why the spit in the shake?

It just feels more official. That feels like a true bond.

Coming from a germaphobe like you, I'm a little surprised. I would never do that.

Just a good shake. If you kiss, you've already done it. I'm just saying. Oh, nice. Hey, guys, what's It's Jade, and I'm pumped for the new year, and I hope you are, too. But the problem is, most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. Our EveryDollars app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollars helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster.

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All right, New York City is where we're going next. Lee is joining us. Lee, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you, guys, for taking my call. My question is, I live in my childhood home with my sister and my boyfriend. Last summer, we started renovation, and my sister decided to move out. So now I just want to know, is she still responsible for part of the renovation for the house?

I mean, did we get her to sign anything? Did we sign anything?

No. No. There was no agreement that, Hey, we're going to do these renovations?

Well, she knew we were going Well, she was here when we started the renovation.

Yeah, but was there... We know there was no sign thing, but was there a conversation around the breakfast table to say, This is going to cost about X amount of dollars. Are you in?

No.

Is there any agreement about this co-ownership situation?

No, she's on the title. She's on the title of the house. It's our childhood house that we got from our parents.

Okay. Are these necessary repairs or are these improvements, upgrades?

Yeah, improvement, upgrades.

I have a sense that you were the one driving the train. You were the leader, the ideator, the executor. I am.

Here's the tough news. If there's nothing in writing, You can't force her to pay for these improvements and upgrades. It's like an elective surgery. That's right. If there was a necessary... Hey, the foundation's cracked and we both own this house, I think you'd have an argument to go, We're going to split this. But if it's, Hey, I just want a new kitchen, and she was there when you started it, I don't think you're going to have a case here. In which case, I would limit this if you can't afford it. Are you going into debt for this or are you cash flowing it?

No, I have cash on. I just received the trust from my uncle about three years ago, so I'm using that.

Okay. Here's what I might do, and I think is wise. You should drop an agreement saying, Hey, I'm putting this much in upgrades. I'm going to get that much more out of the house when it sells. That's fair. Right.

Okay. Have you already brought this up to her to say, Hey, you were here, or are you just bouncing this off of us? No.

Well, what I was going to do is I was going to wait until I have the whole total for the renovation, and then I was going to say, This is your cut.

Good. You haven't brought it up. Our point to you is you don't even have a common sense argument on this one, so don't burn any calories or create any tension with your sister on this. I think you bring it up in the form of what George said, Hey, I've decided to do this, as you know, and I think it's going to add this value, but I'm going to get a realtor's take on this. I'm not going to make up a number based on all my receipts. Then I want to know if you're okay. When we sell this, I think George's advice is great.

Or Or we could split this 50-50 and nothing changes. We'll both get the same amount when we sell it. But it makes no sense for her to benefit from the appreciation. This house is going to be more expensive. That's right. I agree. Because of the renovations And so therefore, she shouldn't get all the benefit when you floated all the money for it. But it's part of the mess when you co-own a house, even with family. Right. It's just hard to not make it messy. So the other part is, what's the long-term game plan with this house? Are you going to live in it forever? Is there a plan to sell it? Can you sell it without her writing off on it?

No, actually, there's no long term. My daughter will probably inherit the house.

How old's your daughter?

24.

Okay. Has she said, I would love to have this house when you're gone?

For now, yeah. She's not going to be able to afford a mortgage. That house is almost paid off.

Okay. Cool. Well, I would talk to your sister ASAP. I'd get all the numbers as soon as possible and go, Here's what the total cost is. Keep it reasonable because there's a chance you don't ever get this money back. And so I would limit what you're doing. It's easy to go crazy when you're doing renovations, and they're always more expensive than you thought they were going to be. Of course. And it always takes longer.

Of course. All right. Best of luck. Yeah, thanks, Lee. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Steve, who is in our backyard Here is David here of Nashville, Tennessee. Steve, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call today.

Sure.

My questions are all regarding just getting out of debt. I work full-time and have a business that I do as well. And over the last five years, I've accumulated about $434,368 a debt.

For the business? No, that's my mortgage. It's all my debt.

So I had a mortgage before the business.

Okay, outside of the mortgage, how much debt do you have?

It's 166,307.

Okay.

And what is that comprised of?

It's my vehicles. I have two vehicles, my wife's car, my car, credit cards, and loans.

What are you taking home from the business each year?

Last First year, I ended up clearing 37,000.

That's not great. How long have you been running this business?

About five years.

Are you running- Are you running any of your expenses through the business, or you're only getting 37,000?

Yeah, I'm running all my expenses that I can through my business.

We had about $99,000 in revenue, but paid taxes on the 37. What's your household income? Is your wife working outside the home?

She does. She works somewhat of a part-time, full-time. She's making about 30,000 a year, and I'm clearing about another 80 at my job full-time.

Oh, so you have a full-time job on top of that? Yes. Well, you buried the lead there. I was like, Oh, my goodness. How are you guys surviving?

So the 37 that you paid yourself as a side hustle?

Yes, correct. Okay. I feel a whole lot better. I was like, This dude has been at it for five years full-time.

I was about to tell you to shut the business down, man. It was going to get bleaked fast.

I'm sorry. So you guys are making 150 grand a year. That's before taxes. Sure. Gross household income, 150 grand. Okay, what's your question?

Well, my question is that I'm over extended here big time.

All my payments and everything, it's more about how can I get this cleared up and start actually putting money towards our retirement and things, as opposed to just paying all these loans. Well, the answer is simple. You're driving your retirement right now. Those cars were your retirement fund, but you decided, I want a nice car instead.

What's your combined car payment?

It's 1752.

Goodness gracious. What are these cars worth?

One and a half. $1,700? Did I hear that right?

Yes.

Yes. Well, there's your answer.

Yeah, I've got a Jeep that I owe 56,000 on, and I've got another Honda car that I owe 23,000 on. And both of them are combined at 1752.

Yeah. So you've got about $80,000 in cars, and you make 147. So that's a major problem. And the parameter is no more than half your annual income, tied up with things of wheels and motors. And so you guys are over that. And even if you weren't, I would tell you to sell these. You don't need a 56,000 Jeep right now to live your life, do you? No. Okay. So we're going to sell both these cars. Are you underwater on either of them?

The one Jeep I am, last time I hit Carvana with it, they were offering- Well, Carvana is going to give you pennies, dude, because they got to make a profit.

Go to Kelly Blue Book, find the private party value, and sell this thing yourself. Facebook marketplace, Auto Trader. Get these cars listed and make sure that you have the difference in cash or personal loan from your credit union. And then you're going to need a little bit of money to get some Beater cars. But is your wife on board that you guys are about to be living a very different life for a short period of time?

Yeah, I've already talked to her, and yes, she's on board. The Honda is her car. I bought it in '24, and the car that we had, it was paid off. And she was like, I don't need a new car.

You just got excited and went, You deserve one, babe.

No. There was a repair coming.

And we had...

It was a one-owner car. We bought it at Honda. We took it down there to get it repaired.

And they gave us a good deal on it and wanted to buy it, so that's the way it went. Great deal. Leaving you guys broke This is a terrible deal, my friend. You can clean this up. Sell the cars, get aggressive, do the debt snowball, and then we'll attack the mortgage later on. Hey, guys. George Campbell here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey-trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/insurance, ramseysolutions. Com/insurance.

All right, folks, if you fly blind and just willy-nilly through your taxes, boy, oh, boy. Confusing, stressful. You don't want to get yourself in hot water with any type of legalities. But with With the help of Ramsey's easy-to-digest tax resources, you can learn how to handle your taxes with ease and confidence. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/taxis. That's ramseysolutions. Com/taxis. You're going to get a ton of great resources and tips and tricks to make your tax returns easy. Guides on filling, excuse me, on filing, rather, if you're self employed or a freelancer and other tools. So ramseysolutions. Com/taxis. Lyn Lynette joins us in Denver, Colorado. Lynette, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thank you for taking my call. I love the show. I have paid off 37,015 months. Thanks to you all.

Wow. I didn't do Jack Squat.

Every day.

I would have been sitting here the whole time.

You did because you guys were encouraging. I appreciate you all. So now that I'm in Baby Step 3, I'm trying to look at my emergency fund. After this last year, I made 115,000, but after Everything comes out that includes my retirement that I was doing. It dropped me down to about 74,000. Now I've upped my retirement to 9%. I do get a 6% match, so that brings me up to the 15%. I'm looking at doing 2,500 to 3,000 a month in emergency fund until now, until December, because I'm single and by myself. I'm just wondering, is that about what I should be doing? 25% of my housing is about 1,400 a month, making sure that's correct and just trying to get feedback from you guys. I'm also getting 30,000 from my dad in Inheritance. I just opened up a fair one checking bundle. Awesome. But I heard I've got some of you guys, but I haven't got the debit card yet. I plan on putting the 30 grand into a high-yield savings account with them until I get $250,000 saved up for a future housing. So, just what you guys take.

Sorry. So you got 17 things going on. Let's clarify. I know. Do you have any savings right now?

About 2,500 because I just paid off that 37,000.

Okay, so let's go over the baby steps because there are some parts I want to clarify for you. So baby step two, you obviously did debt snowball. You're completely debt free? Yes. Now Baby Step 3 is next, which means we are not investing yet.

Oh, I thought we were for the emergency fund, no?

The emergency Emergency fund is separate. So emergency fund is three to six months of expenses in a high yield savings account. And until you get that, we're not going to invest a dime, even the match. I know that you're like, oh, my gosh, I can't give up the match, right? Right, right. But here's the thing, Doing seven things at once is not going to cause you to make progress. And the good news is you're about to get 30K. Is that your emergency fund? Would that suffice?

Yeah, I just was hoping to put that towards a down payment because that's what my dad would have wanted, was to put it towards a house.

Okay, but let's just look at it as a financial foundation. He wants you to be financially stable and free. That's the goal, right? And so part of that is making sure we don't have all of our money in a house and no money in savings. Because being a homeowner is one of the most expensive things you can get into. And so the proper steps- Oh, yeah. It's going to be like a five-year plan. If you want to continue on with the plan because it's been working for you, Then put the 30 grand in that high yield savings. That becomes your emergency fund. And then we can invest 15 % of your income, which means the match doesn't count. That is gravy on top. So you would ratchet up your retirement to 15 %, and you'd get the 6 % match on top of that. Okay. That way you build the habit and consistency. And if you have a job one day that doesn't have a match, it doesn't matter to you. You have the habit of investing 15 % and living on the rest.

Okay, perfect. I'm glad you And then, beyond that, you can save up for the down payment with any future money.

Because now you have this foundation. No debt, emergency fund saved up, you're investing for the future, and now you can begin saving. So how long would it take you if you did it that way to save up a down payment? What's the number? $250,000?

Well, because Colorado is crazy expensive. Most of the houses are 385 to $400,000 with just my income. I'm guessing I'm going to have to get half of that down payment to be in my 25 % of my pay.

Okay, so how much could you save up each month if savings is covered and you're investing 15 %? How much could you throw into a high yield savings for the down payment?

About 2,500.

Per month? Yeah. Okay, so doing the math on that, it's 30 grand a year, which means it's going to take you seven or eight years to get there? Yeah. And therefore, we might need to go, All right, we need to up our income. We need to compromise on the type of house we were going to go for. Maybe it's a smaller house, further out from the city for now to get our foot in the door, those kinds of things. Or you make peace with the fact that it's going to take you seven years to buy a home.

Right. And high yield is the best place to plant that.

If it's going to take you seven years, I would say you can invest the money. Anything that's five plus years in the market, you have a better chance of being in the positive the longer you're in the market. But if it's one to 2-3 years, high yield savings is a much better bet. Got it. Okay. But you're doing great. You have an awesome income. You're debt-free. I would just refocus because we got off the beaten path with the plan as soon as we got out of debt.

That's why I was calling you. I mean, I just paid it off.

Good for you. You got the 30,000 already from the inheritance?

It's going to be in a couple of months.

Oh, in a couple of months. Okay. Well, in the meantime, any extra money you have is going toward that emergency fund, and I would pause your investing down to zero % because it will light a fire under you and free up money to put in that emergency Okay, just until I get the emergency fund, and then I can go back to it. Exactly.

Okay.

All right. You're doing great. I'm proud of you, Lynette.

It's all. Listen, Lynette, don't fall prey. Listen, Lynette, don't fall prey to your friends telling you it's crazy that you even think about waiting seven years to buy a house. Don't fall prey to that, because again, what the advice George gave you, I know it's going to take seven years, and that seems like forever, but you're still single right now.

And how old are you? Thirty-eight. Okay.

That's okay. Listen.

Average homeowner is what? Forty Yeah, and that sucks. The numbers changed.

And by the way, that sucks, and I hate that.

It's going to be way longer for me, but that's okay.

It's okay.

Ken is way older than 45, so he can attest, and he's a young buck still.

Thank you. But you just confused the entire audience. And I'm not way older. You think, what constitutes wait?

To Lynette, seven years is a lifetime.

Right. I mean, it is. It's true. But I'm like, It is what it is. I don't want to- Here's the truth.

Big picture. Your income is going to go up over time. You could meet someone and then have dual income. And so this is not like a life sentence. Life is going to change, your dreams are going to change, your city could change. But in the meantime, just stack as much cash as you can.

That's right. Big picture thinking, Lynette. All right? And let me tell you something. Let me tell you what you're dealing with. And I heard it in your voice, and I want to encourage you because this happens to all of us. Great expectations, right? And when the expectations that we had earlier in life don't pan out, it sucks, right? And here's what happens. And by the way, this happens to all of us, relationally, professionally, physically, right? I think of couples that maybe want to have babies, and it takes years and years and years. There's just so many examples of this. But it's okay to allow yourself to lament that, right?

Okay.

Thank you.

But, yeah, listen, it's okay because I heard you go, I'm 38.

You Well, because this is the first time I started doing retirement.

I know. It's okay.

I've only got like 30K in retirement.

I know. Lynette, someone out there is 58 feeling like they're too late. Someone out there is 28 thinking, Man, I wish I got this stuff sooner. So do not beat yourself up for that.

That's what I'm trying to tell you, Lynette. I heard it, and I want to encourage your heart. You're not listening. Yes, you need to adjust now. The expectations you had for your life in this particular area haven't been met, but it doesn't mean that life in the future cannot still be really, really good. That's the mindset you got to have, okay?

Definitely. I'm just thankful to have the debt paid, honestly.

Yes, ma'am. That was a big sweet off my shoulders. Listen, you're in great shape. You have much to be grateful for, okay? Write down all the things that you're grateful for through this discipline of getting out of debt. Write all that stuff down tonight. How proud, by the way, add a line, add a column of what your dad would be proud of, okay? Focus on that. Thank you. Yeah. Get your head up. God bless you guys. You too.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramsey solutions. Com/start. All right, our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 28: 1, The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Our quote of the day from James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits, Your success depends on the risks you take. Your survival depends on the risks you avoid. All right. Thank you, James.

I'll chew on that. Okay.

Anna is joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anna, how can we help?

Thank you. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

Well, we're excited to talk to you. What's going on?

Well, my husband and I are hoping to get our income up, and he's been looking to make a career change. I'm just been struggling with the steps to take on that. Does he know- I'm wondering if he had- I'm so sorry.

Yeah, I interrupted you. Go ahead. I was going to ask, does he know which path he wants to take?

Right now, we're trying to narrow it down a little bit, but we're pretty sure that he would be good in the field of technology.

Okay. When you say try to narrow it down, are we talking about specific types of roles within technology?

Yeah. He's applied for some positions with some companies and hasn't gone anywhere yet because we were thinking that it would be best to just get some experience in the field and then- What tech job is he looking at?

Because that's about the broadest category out there.

He's It's applied to some cell phone companies.

Yeah, but again, I think we're asking, are we talking about programming? Are we talking about engineering? Are we talking about- Sales? Yeah. What role in tech?

The last thing that he mentioned that he was interested in was coding.

Okay.

Has he taken a coding course, class, boot camp?

He was looking into Well, I'm going to tell you, has he done anything professionally?

Has he ever drawn any paycheck for coding?

No.

Okay. One of the first things I would do, and we'll pause on this after I say this, is what good coding boot camps courses can he take that you can afford? Let's go get that because many times in those coding courses or co-ops or whatever, they have placement services. Does. If he wants to get to coding, it might be a good idea to get qualified in coding and then see about the placement, as opposed to, I'm going to go get a job at a cell phone company and then tinker around with coding. Now, that would be one thing. But I want to pause here. What's your financial situation? Because you mentioned you guys need more income. So what's going on there?

We have a one and a half year old and a baby on the way, and so we're looking at just cost. Cost of living is going to be increasing.

I guess I should have asked the question- I guess I have to remind that his paycheck doesn't change all the time. Okay, let me run you through a couple of quick things here so George can some plug in here. What is your combined income? Your income, his income. Give me both of those, actually.

Okay, yeah. My husband's income right now is... It's between 2700 and 3500 a month. It fluctuates a lot. Okay.

And what does he do?

He delivers pizzas.

Full-time?

That's his full-time job?

It's never really been a full-time job. It's been between $30 and 40 hours a week, sometimes less.

Why is he not working more?

He has had some medical issues that have been a setback, and we're working through that. It's been getting better.

Okay. Are you making any income?

Right now, I'm doing DoorDash.

Okay.

But I've had different jobs and having kids.

And do you guys have any debt?

We have a little bit of medical debt.

And that's it.

How much is that? What's that? How much debt?

It's a little under 3,000.

Okay. We definitely have an income, and that's the primary reason for you calling, is we got to get our income up, and we do. But for him to get into tech, there's always a ladder, no matter the industry, right? With him not having any tech experience, or at this point, he has no tech training. That's what I've been asking, right? It's going to be very difficult for him to get on an actual tech ladder. He might go work for a tech company, not a bad idea, but maybe he's in the warehouse or you know what I mean? He's adjacent, which is what sounds like he's been trying to do, but he's still going to have to get some basic training. So one exercise for both of you that you can do tonight is to get online and in your area, you go on one of these job websites, there's national boards, or you can go look at companies, the local companies, the tech companies, and you look at some roles. But what you're trying to do is research and see what is entry-level tech in coding look like? Then we could say, What is entry-level work in security, like data security or data analyst, all the things.

Get good view of the landscape and always look for what is the lowest rung on the ladder because that's where he's going to enter with no experience. Then we step back further and we say, what qualifications does he need? We start with, does he need a college degree? Many times at these tech companies, you don't, but you do need some type of fundamental training. Sometimes we're seeing more and more where companies have their own training program. That might be an option. But you guys, as a young couple with One little one and another one on the way and very little income. You guys are out schlepping pizzas and delivering food, and I appreciate the hustle. There's no shame in that. I don't dishonor that. But I am saying you need more, and you agree. That's why you called us. So this becomes an urgent research project. Are you with me so far? Anything that I said that you're not sure about?

I'm with you.

Okay, that's urgent. We are urgently figuring out what the plan should be and what the plan could be. In the interim, I would like to see him get a little bit more aggressive, and I'm going to give him a couple of gifts. We're going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has a career assessment in it, the Get Clear Assessment. 20 minutes. It's absolutely worth it? Yes, ma'am. It's got an AI component to it, and it'll spit out suggestions, and that'll help verify or give him some more ideas. Step one. I'm also going to give him the book, The Proximity Principle. He needs to read The Proximity Principle. By the end of Sunday night, he should be almost through with it. This is about how to make good connections because it is connections that open up and unlock jobs and opportunities. You're tracking with me? Those two books are my gift, but you guys need to do the research. George, on the money piece, they still got some small debt here. I want to bring you in because we got to hustle through that.

Do you guys have anything in savings?

Yeah, actually, we do. We Actually, I opened a high-yield savings account. We have, I think we have about $25,000.

You have $25,000 in a savings account?

I guess I should have asked that.

You How did you find the lead there. That's like almost your yearly income. How did you save that up?

Well, I've been doing- I feel like you're not telling us the truth, Anna.

The amount of Pausing is giving me some pause. What's going on?

Well, I'm just trying to think through. I've had a lot of different things that I've done, too.

Okay, for the shortage of time, I'm going to interrupt because, George, tell them what they do with the $25,000.

You're paying off the medical debt today. Any debt you have is going to get paid with that savings, and anything left over is becoming your emergency fund. That gives you guys some financial cushion and some financial peace as he explores these new options. That's your ramp to get this new field while he's delivering pizzas, and he needs to be working more. If his health can support it, you need to be working more as well because this baby is coming and it is going to get more expensive, but it's not hopeless. We need to get him the right steps, and Ken's resources will do that.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.