Transcript of Comfort Is The Enemy Of Progress - Attack Your Debt Now!

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by author Jade Warshaw. We are so excited that you're tuning in today. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Annie is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Annie?

Hey, how's it going?

Great. How can we help?

All right. Yes, sir. I have a dilemma. I had an ex-boyfriend about five, six years ago, and we got vehicles. I sold mine, but we cosigned for each other.

That's true love.

Yeah, right. But anyway, he hasn't made a payment. I don't care about my credit, but they keep calling, and they're like, It's a binding contract. So my question is, What do I do? I haven't seen the bike in over four or five years. I don't know if he's alive or dead. And they came to my house and checked it ain't there.

They went to come repo it and it wasn't there? Yes. Yeah I'm quick. I don't have- Okay, here's the bad news, Annie. It doesn't matter where that motorcycle is, and it doesn't matter if he's dead or alive. You owe that debt. That is exactly what cosigning is. It's you taking on that debt because they don't trust him to pay. And I think they were wise.

How much is it?

It's like about $10,000. Yikes.

And what about your bike? Have you since paid yours off? Or what happened the one that you guys cosigned together that you drove?

Oh, I sold mine.

So yours has been Where are you at financially?

Do you have any other debts? Do you have money and savings?

No, I don't have any money and savings. I've been retired for a year, and I'm trying to go back to work right now, so I'm barely making my bills, and I can't afford to make that.

Where's your income coming from?

Retirement.

Like a 401(k), Social Security?

No, I work for a TBC.

So you have a pension?

Yes, sir. Evidently, yes. Okay.

Yeah. So what is your monthly income as it stands without you going to work?

Like, 1,600.

And what are your monthly bills add up to? More than 1,600? Yes. Okay. So are you floating the gap with credit cards?

No. Actually, I'm married. So, yeah, I got married. So that's how we do it together.

Okay. What's he make every single month?

Probably about, let me see, 9, 18, about 3,000.

Okay. And I don't know, I'm guessing, based on the way you're talking, but are you guys combined money or are you separate?

I take care of the bills, and he just puts money in my account, so I take care of all the bills. And then he takes care of his truck and stuff.

So you're separate for all intents and purposes. It doesn't sound like- Does he have savings?

No.

Okay. Well, the best way to do this would be combining your money together to go, Okay, how are we going to make a plan to pay this old debt off? Now, I don't know if he's willing to do that, and it sounds like he doesn't have the ability because he's broke, too. Correct. And he's got a truck payment of his own?

No, his truck is paid off. But we're trying to get him another truck. So I'm trying to go back to work because his truck is actually broke down and we're trying to fix it.

So you're trying to pay for the repair, or are you about to go buy a brand new truck with payments? Because you don't have any money.

Right, right. Well, that's why I need to go to work, is so that way we'll have more money on top of that. But his truck is old, and he's trying to fix it. So by now, that's what our goal is to fix it.

Well, I think work is a great place to go right now to make more money to get us out of all of this. And this old motorcycle That's all. So it's all motorcycle debt. That's just part of the bigger picture that we need to clean up. What other debts do you have?

I have a couple of credit cards. My debt's probably about 10,000.

Well, you got 10,000 just on the motorcycle.

No, no. Yeah, but I'm talking about... Yes. You got 20,000. I guess about 20,000.

Okay. Here's what I hear, and here's what I hear, and here's a couple of... I just want to bullet point this so that you have clear homework for tonight. First things first is, tonight, it's Friday night here. I know some of you might not listen to this till Monday, but I want you to go out either on a date or tell your husband, tonight is date night at the house. And over dinner, I want you to say, I've really been thinking, and I don't feel peace about our finances. I feel stressed. I feel like we're disconnected. And I would really love for us to get a mind financially. I would love to be in a situation where what's yours is mine and mine is yours, and that we really are a unit on this. I want you to open up the lines of communication on that. Tonight's not the night to create a plan to pay off debt. That tonight is not the night to say it's time to sell a vehicle. Tonight is just the night to say, Here's what I'm afraid of. Here's what I've been feeling. I would just like to have this intimacy with you where we're one-on-one with our money.

For you, in your own time, until the next meeting that you're going to have with your husband, I want you to start writing down debt. Here's all the debt. Here's all my money. And then the next meeting with him, I want you to go with him and say, I started writing things down. Here's what I started writing down. Slide it over there and say, Is there anything you want to add to this list? Because I'm just trying to get my head around this, right? And keep that conversation going. That's thing one and thing two. And then you guys can start to get your head around this. We're going to give you every dollar before you get off the phone, because the truth is, George and I can only talk to you for so long, and you're going to need something and someone to walk with you, and every dollar is going to do that. It'll be like you have George in your pocket. That's the key to this. Every dollar is going to ask questions about you. You're going to answer it, and then it's going to tell you the next right step. In this case, George was right.

Money coming in, so income coming in, you getting another job, that's going to be so key. But then after you've done the budget, you're going to realize, are there some things that we can cut out? What percentage of our take home is our rent or our mortgage. You're going to see things that might need to shift, and all that needs to be done together with your spouse. I personally call us back. Call us back and tell us how it goes, because there are several steps to this. I would never want you to think it was a light switch that was supposed to happen in one conversation or in one phone call to our show. Keep walking down the road. Don't get discouraged. There's going to be several steps to this, but just take the next right step.

What's the answer? Even though I don't know where the bike is, I haven't seen it in five years.

You got to stack up the money. You have to, at this point, assume it as your debt. Forget he ever even existed because your name is on it. And legally, that's all they see. If they can't find him, your name is on it, and you will feel it. If it doesn't get paid, your credit is going to get destroyed. It's going to keep you from doing the things you want to do. So add it to the list of debts. The best thing that you can do in this situation, mentally and emotionally, is say, You know what? This is a mistake I made. This was the part I played. Forget all about him because he's somewhere eating a sandwich. He is not thinking about you. And he clearly doesn't care about his finances. So you pay it. Don't spend another ounce of energy thinking about him because it's just wasted mental calories and emotional calories.

And Because the debt is six years old, they might be willing to settle. If you can scratch up $3,000 and call them and say, Hey, listen, I don't know where this guy is. I don't know where the bike is. He's an ex. I'll give you three grand if you can call this debt paid in full and clear from your credit and move on your life, emotionally and financially. We're rooting for you, Annie. Hang on the line. We're going to get you hooked up with every dollar.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. If you missed it, we had an awesome livestream that happened last night. Depending on when you're hearing this, you can go check it out and watch the replay, ramseysolutions. Com/livestream, or just head to our YouTube channels. Jade and Dave just held court on stage, and it was a wonderful time. Be sure to check that out if you're looking to kick 2026 off with a bang. Laura is in Salt Lake City. What's going on, Laura?

Hi. I'm just trying to figure out where I go from here. My husband and I, my husband's a contractor, and I'm a stay at home mom, and we've owned our own business for 12 years. And in the last three years, he's been partnering with his brother and just splitting profits 50-50. And I was okay with that until this recent year, we've got a job that's taking over a year. And I do all the paperwork. So I run the business side of it. And so I asked for this job if I could get 5, 10 100 % for me because I felt like it's a lot more because I got workers, competent employees, and subcontractors now with this year-long job. And he said, No, he doesn't feel comfortable doing that because... This is where I got a little upset. He said, I'm a wife that helps out, and doing a little bit of paperwork doesn't mean I get a cut of the business.

Like the full business as a whole, or are you trying to get him to pull more salary, like payroll for I mean this.

No, I mean this job. We own our own business. It's a small business, and we've been fine. And I technically own 49 % of the business. That's what it is on the paperwork.

Yeah, yeah.

But I do 10 % of it because I just do the paperwork. But I thought I was a business partner. Well, you are an- When I was arguing about splitting 50/50 with his brother for this big job, he said, No, we can't do that. You're just helping. You're my wife and you're helping me out. So I don't I have to do the paperwork, and I can spend more time with the family. And I just, for the last 12 years, I thought I was a business partner. And so I just- I think this is more I think this is more about the disappointment of how he views you versus a money or a business thing.

At least that's what I'm hearing.

You feel disrespected, belittled, like your work doesn't really matter.

That's what the hard one- It's not just that, though.

When it's a $20,000 job and it's a few receipts since my early work, it's not a big deal to split it 50/50. But I mean, this profit is going to be about $200,000.

So you want a cut of the profits?

I want a piece of profit because it's a lot more work for me to do a $200,000- Sure, but are you paid?

That's the question. Yeah, do you receive a salary? No, I don't. Have you ever received a salary?

No, it's It's not a salary. It's our business, we're partners.

So the question is, on a job like that, I hear what you're saying. What you're saying is more emotional. I'm talking about on paper at this point. If they're 50/50, are your brother The brother and your husband, is that 50/50 on paper, or is it you're a 50- No, he's his own contractor- A third, a third, a third.

And on his own business. He's his own contractor and on his own business. And so they just have a deal that when they do jobs together, they split the profit 50/50.

Okay. So my thing is this. So you're saying, in essence, the profit should be split in thirds?

I don't think thirds, because I'm not doing a third of the work.

You just want 10 %.

And most of the people's work isn't that much, I asked for 5 to 10 %.

So then the other question is this. Let's just look at it as it is. Just take emotion out of it for a minute. Okay. The brother, even though they're working on this and they're separate businesses, does the brother have somebody who does the paperwork for him on his side of the business and has all that, and then he takes that? Do you see what I'm saying? Both businesses are probably set up similarly. So the other side of this conversation would have been for you to say, husband, if we're doing more work on this, shouldn't we be taking more of the profit? Should this be a 60/40 split with your brother? Do you see what I'm saying? Because at the end of the day- That's what he said. Because at the end of the day- And that's what he said, no, you're just a wife helping out. Okay, but Did he say those words exactly, You're just a wife?

I'm trying to go after- I don't think he said it.

He said, You're my wife and you help me out.

Okay. I just wonder if he was on the phone, I feel like he would be like, No, no, here's what I said.

Because what I'm getting at is if the money is going into you guys as pot, it's both of your money. And that's a whole other conversation, if you guys don't view it that way, but it's both of your money. And what I'm saying is, although what he said sounds disrespectful, I wasn't there, but it sounds disrespectful, there's two different conversations here. There's what's fair financially for you guys business, not you and him separately, but the business. Then there's the conversation of how we treat each other with respect within our marriage. Does that make sense? Yeah. If the deal with the businesses is it's a 50/50 split, then that's that deal. Now, then there's a conversation of, Well, honey, there's two of us on the payroll. It would benefit both of us, possibly, if you received a salary and if I received a salary. Now, if you're trying to split hairs and the salary would remain the same and you guys would just have your names on it differently, I do think that's splitting hairs. Are you following what I'm saying?

I think so.

So my husband and I own a business together, and this is true. If Sam is profiting, if he takes $200,000 as profit on the business, let's say I'm staying home with the kids, that's our money. It's our profit. Now, if I'm helping him out and I say, Oh, the $200,000, it feels weird that zero of that is written in my name. I'd like for you to write 50 of it in my name, so you make 150 and I make 50. That's me splitting hairs because the 200 is going into our account anyway. Now, if I said, Sam, I've been thinking you're working and I'm working. If there's room, I probably should take a salary, too. It's good for all of us. It's good for the business if we're making more and we can profit more into our pocket. So for the work I'm doing, maybe you can pay me $30,000 a year on top of your $200,000. That's a conversation to have based on the work. And it doesn't have anything to do with the other vendors.

Yeah. He asked, he's like, Well, what if we do hourly? But the problem is, it's a random phone call here and there, or it's, Hey, can you pick up these supplies? Can you go grab the trailer? Can you go grab the cement? So it's just a random thing. It's not a clock in, clock out thing I do. I'm always on call doing it.

So it just sounds like there needs to be a set amount. It sounds like there needs to be... You guys need to figure out what that split is. It sounds like it needs to be some a set amount, some a commission that you get for the work that you do that's set. And then there's a list of responsibilities that go along with the money that you earn in a month. So that could be anything from this, this, this, that.

Instead of a percentage, because I asked for a percentage, and that's very huge.

I I think percentage is confusing because, again, they're viewing it as entity versus entity. You guys is business with the brother's business. You're not an entity. You're part of your business entity. I think that's what caused the confusion. But if you're just like, Hey, put me on the payroll, Let's figure out what that means. That's one conversation. I think that's great. If you can afford it.

I think the other point we never ironed out is your life shifted, right? When you stayed home, it wasn't the same as it was before. But we never We never had a conversation about what this looks like now. And he views you as, well, she works on the business, but she's not pulling the weight that me and my brother are, right?

Yeah. And that's where he said it. He said that as well.

And we just never acknowledge that. When you stayed at home because you guys are married and live together, it's easy to let those things slide. I think we should have had a conversation going, Hey, I know that this has been our business. It's going to shift now. My brother is going to be stepping in to shoulder some of the weight of this. And you will be more of an employee in the business, and here's how that's going to be laid out financially. I think it's just we need a reset.

And that's the conversation we never had.

Exactly. Maybe that turns into he pays you a salary or a part-time hourly wage, and you keep The lack of how much time you've spent on the business, and that's what you're paid. I don't know what that looks like for you guys.

I also need to find out the other truth of that is, if you weren't there to do the job, would he absorb those responsibilities or would he have to hire out? And that's a really good way to determine- And what would he have to pay for that person? Yeah.

Because if you don't want to do it anymore because you're fed up with it, then just say, I'm not doing it. It doesn't change how much you get paid.

I thought about that, but it would hurt the business more.

Exactly. It's sticking it to the man. You're hurting yourself in that regard. Yeah. Because if it's truly you all's money and it goes into the same bank account and you're married, filing jointly, then you're really just hurting yourself to make a point. And I I would rather you avoid that.

I can't do that because then it would just...

Yeah. Then a hard conversation is your next step, Laura. I wish you the best.

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Michelle is in Vegas up next.

What's going on, Michelle?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I have a question with regards to Cobra. So we've currently been on Cobra for about a year. We're going to be transitioning off in the next 3-6 months. I should have done this sooner, but I didn't. I'm looking at these alternative health sharing plans and just curious what your thought is on those when I compare what I'm paying for Cobra versus what a Med Share or a health sharing plan would be.

What are you paying for Cobra right now?

It's a significant difference. It's going from 1,600 to 1,700, and that's a family of four.

Okay.

Plus, my son went away to college, and I've got to pay for separate insurance for him because my plan doesn't cover him in Colorado.

Okay.

And neither of you have insurance It's the insurance provided through your employer?

Correct.

Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future?

I think so.

What do you guys make a month?

A month? Eight.

Okay. This is a big chunk of your world paying for this health insurance.

Right.

Well, there's a few options. One is the health sharing types, and we have a great partnership with Christian Health Care Ministries. That's one option you can look at that could make sense for you guys, depending on your situation. Another is just shopping the marketplace, and we have another partner, Health Trust Financial, that's fantastic for that, that can help you save. So you might find out, Hey, it's actually not much more or it's less than we're paying right now, depending on your situation.

What would keep you from just shopping the marketplace? Because the truth is, if you pick one of those plans, it's going to be regulated. If for some reason a claim is denied, you can fight it, and there's somebody in your corner, and there's regulations around it, versus some of the others that don't have those protections. I'm trying to understand what your values are around this. Is it the faith-based thing? Is it the money?

A little bit of everything. I'm looking at it where I've been paying $20,000 a year for insurance. Plus another $3,000 when my son went away to school. I know with some of these health sharing plans, it's going to be $500 a month plus a $12,000 deductible. But I'm looking at it where I'm like, Why am I spending $20,000 $1,000 a year on insurance that's okay? It's not great. It's okay. You still got copays and things like that. One of my sons just had a diagnosis where they don't cover the pills that they want him to take. If I don't go through the drug company, that's going to be out of pocket, $6,000. So I think I'm frustrated, and I'm just thinking, what are the alternatives?

Yeah, I do think... So If you're considering this, one of the things that I would say could be a con to a health share is if you do have a chronic illness. Pre-existing condition. Yeah, pre-existing condition. Health shares are good for you're healthy, you rarely go, you agree with whatever status it is that is faith-based of the community or whatever it is. To get the lower payment, that's helpful. But in your case, I'm wondering because there is a pre-existing condition, there It has some imminent health care needs.

I might shop Health Trust Financial and just see what they can find you in the marketplace. Then if you're, Hey, I need another option, I would look into Christian Health Care Ministries as an alternative.

Yeah, because in your case, if I put a claim through, I want to know that it's going to be covered, and I want to know that I can hold them to a standard in order to... As close of a standard as we can. We all know that insurance is not the funnest to navigate, but I want to know that it's got some standards around it.

And I already know they're not going to pay for this drug. My health insurance is not going to pay for this drug. So I can go through Pfizer, and they'll give me a two-year cover.

You're talking about as it is on your Cobra coverage? Mm-hmm. Well, but that could change if you shop the market and find the right plan for you.

Do you think it would be best if you guys found an employer, one of you has a health insurance plan? Would that be more beneficial?

Possibly.

I mean, we don't really have any other bills. Our house is paid for, we have investments and all that.

So you're in a good place financially, but you're just sick of paying this astronomical rate. Yeah.

It's disgusting.

That's actually a trend right now. If you follow social media, it really is a big trend that people are tired of paying premiums, and a lot of people are going to wild business, not having insurance coverage at all. And the truth is, George, you know this, bankruptcy, one One of the biggest causes of bankruptcy is medical debt. It's not something that you want to play around with. It's something you really want to do your research on. The truth is, no one likes paying a bill. No one likes paying a premium. It feels thankless. It feels like money going down a black hole. But when it comes time that you need that coverage, you're like, Oh, thank God, I have it. It's a safety net.

It's a transfer of risk. That's all insurance is. Right now, it stinks to pay 20 grand a year, but it would stink a whole lot more to have a $500,000 bill.

And it doesn't take much.

So I would not go without coverage for a single day, but I would start researching my life dependent on it through those options that I just gave you. Those are places I would start personally. Health Trustfinancial. Com, to reach out to them. And I hope they can find you a great option that is cheaper than what you're paying now.

Okay.

I appreciate it. Best of luck, Michelle. The health care system is broken. I think that is a bipartisan, non-partisan Artisan take. It just sucks.

We all know it. Yeah, it does.

Oh, man. Let's go out to Danny in Wichita. What's going on, Danny? Danny, you're with us?

Yeah, hello?

Hey, what's going on? How are you doing? Great. How can we help?

Well, I'm Colin.

I'm 50 years old.

I recently had a heart attack. I'm about $60,000 in debt. I've got about $18,000 a show in a old 401(k) plan from an employer. I don't have any savings at the moment. I make decent money.

How much do you make?

My question is, I make about $6,000 a month, a minimum. That fluctuates to about 26, 7,500. I drive a truck.

Is it just you?

Well, I have a 17-year-old son at home. Okay. So it's just him and I. About $11,000 of that debt is because I was in fair mode after this happened, and I knew I needed a car to start cutting expenses because I was going to have medical bills coming in. I do have insurance, but still. So I got out of my apartment lease and found a cheaper place to live.

I was paying 1,300. I down to $850 a month for rent.

That also allowed me to get rid of a storage facility. I was paying $140 a month on. What's your question today?

Just so we make sure we can help you.

Yeah. My question is, I know the baby steps, I know the debt snowball, the saving of thousands, but during a heart attack, they found that I have aortic aneurysm and a bi-custed heart valve, which is going to require surgery at some point. They don't know. It It could be three months, it could be three years. They don't know. It's imminent, though. My question is, knowing that, should I start stacking money and get to a certain point and then get onto that snowballing because obviously there's going to be some recovery time with that and not knowing exactly when that point for the surgery is going to come.

Danny, you're in storm mode right now. You've had a catastrophic event with this heart attack, and you've got some things coming up on the burner. If I were in your shoes, I'd do two things. I would call up my insurance, and I would have a conversation about the things that are getting ready to happen, what will be covered. I would want to know very clearly what's my out-of-pocket max for the year, what's my deductible. I know that. That is the amount of money that I would aim to save up because you know the rate is going to fall. You said you know it?

What's that number?

My out-of-pocket, individually, is 9,200. The deductible is 3,000, and that's individual. The total is twice that. So 18,400, finally.

So 9,200 for you. I'd save up $10,000 dollars. And then the next number you need to know is you need to find out what's the recovery time. So how much time am I going to miss from work? What's that equal up to? And that's your emergency fund that you want to save up. So if it's going to be a three-month recovery, calculate what that's going to and save up that cash. And that's the best thing you can do. Knowledge is going to be power in this situation, my friend.

And once you've got all that taken care of, you can push play on the steps. And man, we're hoping that the surgery goes well and that you recover swiftly, my friend. Thanks for the call.

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Yeah, some great demos in there and the principles behind it all. Yeah. Love it. All right, Jerry is in West Palm Beach up next. What's going on, Jerry?

Hey, how are you guys doing?

Good. What's going on with you?

We're doing good. I was just calling because my question is that my wife and I, we potentially can be out of debt by the end of this year, but she currently wants to move to a new apartment because of an ongoing road to issue. And the money that we would use to pay off debt would be used to purchase a new apartment. I was calling to see if we should use that money to buy the apartment or to- Do you own the apartment you're in? No, we're currently renting.

But that would break the lease?

Well, the lease isn't in until November 31st. So we would use all the money that we would use to pay the debt off this year. It would have to be saved the entire year in order to pay for first last and security towards the end of the year.

On a new apartment. How much is that total? So you're not buying an apartment. You're renting a different one?

Yeah, we're just renting. We're on Baby Step 2.

What is that number for a first last in security?

Well, we're not sure yet. Here in Florida, we estimate that for a two one, it'd probably be around 2,100, 2,200 a month.

So that's the first thing is finding out exactly what the numbers are to find out how it's going to affect your debt-free journey and getting real numbers around that versus guesstimates. I'm going to say something here I can't do roaches.

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing to be like, I don't want to live with a roach infestation. Negative. My big question is, why is the apartment not doing anything about it?

Well, we have a pest control company that we use, but the efforts that they've been putting there haven't been working that well.

No, we need like Ghostbusters in there. If it's an infestation in the entire apartment complex, somebody come into your thing, spraying the little twinkering.

I want Exterminator, Terminator, Ghostbusters, a Catholic priest, waving something. I mean, I want everybody up in there.

The bomb where they cover the whole building with fabric.

Yes. Exorcists. Get what you have to get up in there to get the roaches out. And if they don't handle it, I think you have the right to fight them to get out of this lease without paying any fees.

Well, the lease actually says that we're in charge There's a pest control.

That's why we hired this company. So you pay for pest control?

Yeah, we pay for pest control. And that's the problem. Do you see what I'm saying? If your pest control, what you pay for is just going for your unit. But if the whole building has an infestation problem, you can spray till the cows come home in all your corners, but they're going to keep coming down from the guy upstairs where it all started. So I'd be up and out of there. I'd sit with your wife and figure out what's it going to cost. Sometimes the baby steps, George, you know this. Sometimes it feels like two steps forward, a little step back, two steps forward, a little step back. And it's just like that. But in this case, roaches.

It just can't happen. And the five grand, you're just pre-paying. The first month, last month, the deposit, hopefully you get back. There's a little bit of the sunk cost up front, but I think it's well worth it. I would just try to make up for lost time. Once you guys are in that new apartment, let's work twice as hard to get out of debt by the end of the year, regardless.

Oh, I agree. That's good advice. I appreciate it.

I'd be getting... I would also... Here's how much of a nerd I am. I would be uploading the lease agreement to ChatGPT to then act like my lawyer to tell me how to get out of this thing and see what they are responsible for. I like that. Maybe that'll help, Jerry. I I don't know, but man, that's not a fun problem to deal with. I'm with your wife on this one.

I have threatened to move before.

Does that work?

I think Sam knows because I've threatened to move over many things. But when we live in South Florida, we have what's called palmetto bugs, which is really just called a giant roach that can fly.

Oh, I hate those.

These people in the audience are like, Girl, I know what you're talking. A palmetto bug can be the size of the palmetto. They're big. You can't get around it. You could spray all day, but they like water. So if you're by the Glades or if you have pipes in your house, they can come in your house. So basically, everywhere we've ever lived, I've threatened to move.

All right. You just convinced me to never move to Florida. Thank you, Jade.

It's a reason not to.

All right. Declan is in Pittsburgh. What's going on, Declan?

Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure.

What's going on?

I'm trying to decide if it makes the most sense to move out to California to live with my wife's grandmother and her special needs uncle, help take care of them and save some money in the process to knock out some more debt.

Wow. Is your wife going with you?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. I was like, This is a solo adventure for Declan? Okay, so you're considering moving from Pittsburgh all the way across the country to California to save some money.

How can you save money moving to California? Help me understand that part.

Yeah, exactly. It's a Goldilocks situation. So my wife's grandmother has a really nice house that we'd be able to have our own section of the house. It's a large house.

How large?

Five bedrooms, three-fold bath. So we'd have two bedrooms and a whole living room to ourselves with the kids.

Oh, you got kids? How many kids?

Two kids. Two and three-month-old. A two-year-old and three-month-old.

What about the jobs? Help me understand the job situation.

So I work full-time. I'm fully remote. I make 80K a year, and my wife is currently staying home. Eighty? Eighty? Eighty thousand. Okay.

And then you're going to have additional jobs on top of this to take care of? Yes.

So my wife would be able to be the full-time caretaker for my uncle, or for her uncle, who's special needs. And he's just great. He just needs help with making food and little things like that. So So it'll be easier for her to stay at home and take care of him as well. So that's a perfect situation there.

Does grandma or the uncle have any income to speak of?

Yes. Okay. Grandma has Grandma's doing great, and she has rental income from other properties. So, yeah, she's doing just fine.

What about uncle?

No, he's fully disabled, so he doesn't work.

Does grandma pay for uncle's needs?

Yes, fully.

Okay.

But she doesn't- But she doesn't want to- Yeah, they just wanted to have someone else- Instead of a caretaker that they'd hire, they were just like, Yeah, let's have family do it, and they can live for free. Exactly. And that's the trade-off?

Exactly.

Yeah. I don't know about this. Yeah, go ahead. Was the request made or was this something that you guys had a hankering to do? Like, you know what- No, the request was made.

We would love to go spend more time with our I am in California, but they are looking for someone because their current caretaker is weeding. And Uncle Danny, he's someone who needs someone who he knows and is comfortable with. And so they're asked if anyone in the family No one else wanted to do it, except we said we wouldn't.

Okay. So you want to do this?

Yeah. I think it would be great to have some extra income, spend a while in California with some family, and help me understand the extra income.

Help me understand the extra How much does that make you think about the income? So right now, you're making $80,000 a month. What do you pay on rent and housing right now?

We have a mortgage. Around us, it's 1,200 a month.

So 1,200 a month for... Is that just the mortgage? Tell me, living expenses, lighting, all that stuff. Utilities.

We're looking at... Basically, at the end of the month, we're breaking even. We're paying our minimum fund debt, but we're not getting ahead.

How much debt do you have?

We have $45,000 in student loans.

That's it? Yeah, that's it. And you're breaking even. Yeah. Yeah. So something needs to change. I don't know if the move is the next step. I personally wouldn't do it to try to save money. If you just want to do it for the adventure of it, and you think you can make it work, go for it. I don't think you're going to pay off debt much faster because of California's taxes. Yeah, you're- Have you factored that in?

It's actually funny. I did a lot of research into the taxes. In my bracket, we would be saving because we have a huge local income tax here, 2 % local income tax we would not be paying.

Would you sell your house?

If we sold our house, yeah.

You would sell your house to do this.

And what would you make on that?

What would you make on that? Probably 20,000 in equity.

20 grand in equity. Well, then you got fees, you got moving costs with a two-year-old and a three-month-old. Dude, I got kids your age. I wouldn't do any of this.

I wouldn't do this either. I just wouldn't.

I would pass for now, and I would try to make more money and cut expenses, but this feels like a hale Mary. I wish you the best with the decision, Declan. It's a big one.

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Restrictions apply. See boostmobile. Com/ramsey Ramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Campbell, joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw. Her latest book, What No One Tells You About Money, launched this week. It feels like birthday month. We're just celebrating all week, all month long. I love it. It's a great book. So pick up a copy if you haven't already, ramseysolutions. Com. Brian is in Bismarck, North Dakota. What's going on, Brian?

Good afternoon. How are you guys?

Great. How can we help?

Hey, so my wife and I were just wondering if we We're crazy for wanting to pay off our house before we have kids.

Is it crazy? I mean, I wouldn't call you crazy. Wouldn't put you in the looney bin for it, but I also wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah. What's the timeline on this? And how old are you?

So my wife and I are both 22 years old, and we're hoping to pay off our mortgage in about 20 to 24 months. Yeah.

I mean, if it lines up with your timeline, who cares? That's totally personal.

And can I tell you the honest truth? It could take you 24 months to get pregnant. So I wouldn't just wait to start trying until then.

Unless that was part of your plan all along and you're like, Hey, we want to be married for a while before we have kids. I mean, it's a values conversation. So is Is this a sacrifice in you guys' eyes, or are you just concerned with how other people are viewing it?

It is a sacrifice. We're holding off on going on trips and upgrading on cars in order to do this. But part of it is also we want to make sure that my wife can be a stay-at-home mom without me having to worry. And on top of that, I would like to switch jobs to something a little bit more controllable with the schedule, and that would cause me to take a step back and pay.

Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's totally values. My husband and I, when we were first married, we figured out that we had a bunch of debt, and the timeline on ours was We knew it was along a horizon for us. It ended up taking seven and a half years to pay it off. The whole timeline in total was closer to nine years, to be honest. Our choice was to wait. I would never put that on anybody else because ours was very extreme. Yours is not. But at the same time, you want what you want. So if you say, This is the type of stability we want. This is what we want our life to look like when kids come on the scene, that's totally your choice. Nobody else has to understand that. But just know from a principal standard on our side, that is not part of the deal. You don't have to say, We're going to postpone our family until X, Y, Z is true with money.

Okay. There's no baby step for having kids. And I'll tell you, Brian, I lived your story. It just wasn't that intentional of like, We're not going to even try to have kids before we pay off the house. But my wife and I, we paid off our house in 26 months. Then when we did have a kid, she was able to stay home with less stress. I think those steps will happen. I just don't think you need to use the house payoff as the excuse. But if you want to wait two years to have kids, do that and be paying off the mortgage early. But I don't think it needs to be this like, We're not going to even try until the house is paid off. See what I'm saying? Right. Yeah, I get But I think you guys are going to get there regardless. We need more parents like you, more fiscally responsible parents in the world. I wish you the best with the house payoff and with having kids.

All right. Thank you.

Glad we could settle the debate. Not crazy.

Not crazy. Listen, I wouldn't change that for the world on my end.

But if we were like, Hey, don't have kids until your baby steps seven.

No, we can't say that. We can't say any of it to anybody.

Population would decline. We can't have that. Population decline. Mike is in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Mike? What's your question?

Great. Thanks for taking my call.

My question is about accidental life insurance, accidental death life insurance.

I got a quote from somebody just sent in the mail. The reason I'm questioning whether I need it or not is the premium is just so low that it almost seems like, why wouldn't I take it? My wife's 61. We make about 150,000 a year. I have no debt. Networth is about 1. 8. House is paid for it. It's about 400,000.

The rest is in mutual funds, 401(k), IRAs, things like that, and plus some savings. Do you have term life?

I do. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I also have a term life policy for my wife, a smaller amount because she never worked. It's about 100,000, and I have about 500,000 on myself. So again, I'm wondering, do I need... Again, it's just such a What were the numbers on it?

What's the amount of money you're trying to obtain upon accidentally dying?

Yeah, that's how we all hope to go, not intentionally.

Exactly.

That's assuming if you die in an airplane, it's $400,000, but the premium is only $20 a month.

So what would happen if you upped your policy from I'm sorry, from 500 to 700. I'm sure it would be comparable, if not less.

No, it's not, because I have looked at that.

So again, in order to change my life insurance policies, upping it actually puts it into a different…

Because of your age? Yeah. And so the term policy, even changing a little bit, makes it not affordable.

Well, the truth is, accidental death insurance is a gimmick insurance, and we never recommend that. I don't do it because it's a good deal and it's a low amount. The truth is, you don't need it. If something happened to you, she's going to have $500,000. If something happens to her, you got 100 grand plus all of your retirement money. You guys are at the point where you could consider yourself self-insured, right?

Yeah, that's why it's in that balance right now. I feel like I could be, but I don't feel like enough to where I dropped the life insurance.

I would never tell you to drop it. But how long do you have left on the term policies?

Ten.

Okay.

In ten years. Ten years from now, your wealth has doubled, if not tripled, right?

Possibly, yeah.

Just based on stock market returns and your income.

If something happened to you, would your wife be able to live on the nest eggs that you have? You've got the paid for house. You'd have over three million sitting in your 401(k)s. Do you think she'd be able to live off that?

She She would.

300,000 a year?

Yeah, she would. And that's where the angst was coming in. It's just a small dollar amount. It's almost just a gamble. It's like gambling. You throw another quarter in there and see if it hits or not, is why I was questioning it, but I guess you had me when you said it's a gimmick.

It is a gimmick. I mean, think about it like this. Let's go down this hole. You could play it like that. I would never recommend it, but it's like what we say with things like crypto and single stocks. When you're When your stuff is done right, you've done the baby steps, you've got extra, those things are considered gambling. It's like, play money at that point. But in this case, none of it's necessary. It's just redundant. Yeah, you don't need it because then it's like, well, what if you get the accidental death and you don't get in a car accident and a hurricane doesn't land right on your face? You don't get the money at that point. So at that point, if I'm going to throw away that money and I really am like, Give me the $400,000, the better gamble would be to pay a little bit more on the term life and to do it like that. But really, once that policy is done, you're going to let it lapse anyway, or you're going to let it go anyway because you don't need it. At this point, we're really just looking at it, logically and logically, it doesn't make sense.

I would skip it and put that $20 in a fun money line item and have some fun instead of freaking out. But, man, your wife would be so mad if you died of natural causes after paying for this accidental life insurance for so long. Gosh, just past You're playing- Peacefully in his sleep. You're paying roulette. Dang it, Mike. $100,000 was on the line. I hope you live a long life, Mike. I'm going to put that out there.

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Mary is in New York City up next. What's going on, Mary?

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

How are you? Sure. We're doing great.

Good. I just have a question about how you would handle a situation when you disagree with your spouse about going into debt.

Tell us the T. What's going on?

It's regarding our vehicles. We both drive I drive paid-off vehicles. I drive a 2022 Ford Expedition, which we bought, used, went into a little bit of debt, but paid it off very quickly. My husband drives a 2019 Toyota 4-runner and has wanted a truck for a long time and is done waiting. We've prioritized other financial goals for a long time, and now he just thinks He wants to go into debt to get it.

Why would you have to go into debt? What about... Well, let me ask a couple questions. You guys still have debt or everything's gone now?

Everything's gone. We have a fully funded emergency fund. We have three kids, two of which have 529. So we're saving for their college. We fully fund our Roth IRAs every month. Good.

So you're financially responsible adults, is what I would say. What is on fire that he needs to sacrifice all that you've built? I mean, why can you guys not save up and pay cash for this truck?

Yeah, I think we can. I think it would take some time to save up the difference between the trade and value And then we've got some other money set aside.

How long would it take?

I would say probably a year, maybe less than that, if we were working extra hard.

Well, forget the trade-in. What if you sold at private party and got five grand more for the forerunner? And then use that towards the truck on top of your savings? Yeah, probably a few months left. So I would actually do some math and go, Okay, what truck are we getting? Is it a used truck?

It is, and it's about 55,000.

Okay, and what could he sell his four on her four private party?

I would say probably about 30.

Okay, so we have a $25,000 gap. How much could you guys put aside right now towards that savings goal every month?

Every month? Probably between a thousand and fifteen hundred.

Okay, so this is going to take longer than a year based on that math.

Well, we've got another. We've got about fifty. We've set it aside for our kit for our oldest daughter's vehicle, but that's about five or six years down the road, so we could use that. That's outside of our emergency fund. So we were thinking we could also use some of that cash to fund that.

And then you'd restart the car fund for her?

Correct.

Okay, that's reasonable.

Then she'd also be working, too.

I would set a goal that, Hey, if we put this much away every month, January or December of 2026, you can get the car.

I want to get to the bottom of him, though, because when you tell me this, Mary, I'm thinking everybody wants a brand new car tomorrow. I'm looking out in the audience, Do you want a car tomorrow? We all want a brand new car tomorrow. There's this adult part of us that says, That's not the way the world works. I personally consider it pretty abnormal, not in the Ramsey verse, but out in the world, pretty abnormal to say, And not only do I want a new car, a new to me car, but I could save to get it in a year. That's pretty spectacular. I think that he needs to be brought back down to Earth to say, Most people would love a brand new car and could not afford to save up because they've got other things to worry about. They could not save up for it a year. So it's almost like he's lost perspective on what you've accomplished and what it allows you to do that is so much different than the average American. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I agree 100 %. I think that's why I'm calling, because this is just a fork in the road, and I'm to the point where I'm like, Okay, do we just do this? So he backs off a little bit.

No, don't concede. Because here's the thing. Okay, his brain is ahead of his bank account. It's that simple. Yeah. And so you need to say, We worked our butts off to get out of debt. It is a value of both of us that we are not a family who goes into debt. We're done. That's an old us that is gone. That toddler raging inside of us, that instant gratification, that's the past. We're not doing that in the future. We're adults. We've been thinking about a long time. Let's save for a long time. And so if he wants it faster, work harder, dude. Go make more money, cut more expenses. That's the conversation to have tonight. I don't know if we can convince him. You don't get between a man and a truck. I would.

I would stand firm. We're getting into marriage stuff here. So, George, there's very few things that with Sam, I put my steak in and I'm like, You know what? And I'll tell him ahead of time, this is something I don't think I'm going to budge on. We're going to have this conversation a lot of times.

Jade's like, Hey, I hope we have a comfy couch because you'll be sleeping over there.

Yes. Especially if I know I'm right, and I always think I'm right, but when I really think I'm right, there are certain things that you have to say, You know what? And I think this would be one of those, Mary, that I would say, This is something that is very important to me, and I don't see myself rolling over on this anytime soon, and here's why. And I'd be getting firm. I'd be getting in my stance.

Just saying. Yeah, and I feel like I've done that. He thinks I'm a hypocrite because we went into debt to buy my vehicle.

Against his will?

Three years ago.

But was it against his will?

No, it was not.

It was back when you were both stupid, right? Yes. And now you're both smart. You got to remind him of this, be like, That was old us. We've transformed since then. We were both doing stupid stuff back then, but then we got smart. Why would we go back?

I get to do it once, too. It truly is just the toddler inside of us. And it's going, I want big twuck. And you're like, Well, you can have big twuck one year from now. I want big twuck now. And it's like, okay, we can all throw our tantrum. But at some point, he has to realize that he has a family. He has a wife. It's not just him making stupid decisions. It affects other people in his life, namely you right now. Yeah, I agree. He's going to have that truck, and it's going to be so much sweeter when he walks in there and writes a check and walks away. He actually owns that truck instead of being underwater on it or worrying about a payment after you guys work so hard to get out of debt. Now you're back in baby step two, stressed out with three kids. You guys have a lot of expenses coming up between college and cars.

He's got fatigue. Sports. He's got the fatigue.

Is this a midlife crisis, Mary? Is he just done? He's like, How old is he?

A little bit 37.

I talk about this in the book. I'm going to go to this real quick, and I'm probably going to... Let's go ahead and send them a copy. I don't know if he'll read it. Maybe he'll do the audio version. But I talk about this. It's this fatigue that sets in, and it makes you mad. It makes you angry. It's in the anger chapter. When you're making a good income, you've done so many things right, but you're still not at whatever you think the finish line should be. And there's just certain things that you think, I deserve that. I work hard. I did this. And you look at the list of accomplishments and you go, I deserve to have X, Y, Z. And in his mind, it's, I deserve to have this truck. And that is such a dangerous place to be that I deserve because it is just... We saw it with COVID when there was the revenge spending. We had to be locked up in our houses and we couldn't see our families, and we had to wear a mask. And as a result, I'm going to buy all the Lululemon that much.

I'm going to Italy.

I'm going to Italy. And it's a natural response. So I'm not mad at your husband, but I do want to stop him from doing something that I think he's actually going to regret, because then next thing you know, he's going to be the one calling the show, talking about, I bought a truck, and next thing I know, I lost my job. My wife's mad at me. So we're just trying to help him. I'll send you a copy of the book.

What's your household income?

Okay, thank you.

Hey, what's your household How much is your annual income, Mary, before you go?

About 170.

Okay. And what's your car worth?

Probably 55. We bought it for, I think, 60 back in 2023 when we had our third kid.

Okay. Well, here's what I want to throw out there. Our parameter around cars and things that go down in value, boats, motorcycles, whatever, is that it should add up to no more than half of your annual income. So the truth is, you guys are going to have way too much car, considering your income and financial world. Here's my compromise. He can have the truck now if he goes out and gets a $25,000 car and sells his forerunner. Could we find a sweet truck?

Yeah, I suggested that.

How much better are they five years later? Is the technology really that much better?

I don't know. I don't really care about trucks, but he does.

Well, he just wants the newest, shiniest thing. I would say, Here's the compromise. We can use whatever cash we have now to get the truck that we can afford with that amount of money. If we can't afford that, you want a nicer truck, we got to wait, and we have to make more money. It's way too much of our world to have $110,000 tied up with things going down in value even when we make 170.

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Today's question comes from Jenna in Illinois. She says, My husband and I are in baby step two, but are also in stork mode, as we'll have our first baby in a few months. That's exciting. My question is, how do you deal with the pregnancy cravings? This is not going where I thought it was. If I let myself, I would be building this baby on McDonald's French fries and Oreo No cookies. So far, I've done my best to limit those cravings and not let them take over. But this is not easy. Is it okay to splurge on a drive-through French fry order once a week? The cravings really do get wild sometimes, and the emotional swing is crazy. Should I work on letting the cravings pass or can I splurge a little until they go away later in my pregnancy? Oh, my gosh. I love this question. This is real.

This is not what I was thinking. This is not what I was thinking. Okay, what's your take, Jade?

I fight me in the comments if you must. Some of us, pregnancy is one of those once in a lifetime, some of us twice in a lifetime, four times in a lifetime thing. Go get some French fries for crying out loud. Please, woman, go get the French fries. That's all I have to say on the matter. My sister told me this, and she either told me this to make me feel better or maybe it is scientific. But if the baby asks for it, it's because you need it. There you go. You just need to have it.

It's science.

It's science.

All I know is this.

It means that you need energy if you crave carbs. It's telling your body something is what she told me.

Pre-dad George would be like, No, you stick to the plan no matter what. And then I had to deal with a pregnant woman with craving. You don't want to deal with that. I don't want to get in the middle of a pregnant woman and her craving. It is, Yes, ma'am, I am on it.

Now, could you do things- What was Whitney's?

You know what? I think she went the... I think she was salty. Salty? Like salty snacks. And then it switched to sweets with the Our Latest.

Can I tell Do you mind? If that Krispy cream light was on, the hot sign's on, you better bet- You couldn't stop me.

Jade's in that drive-through.

You could not stop me. You still can't stop me.

I do think limiting it is good because it can turn into a habit. I would try to go, Hey, what cravings can we accomplish through shopping at the grocery store versus eating out? Because that's where it triples or quadruples because that's the markup.

A potato is a potato. Alexa has those great ones in the air fryer.

I'm not asking you to... I was going to say, you can get now McDonald's fries are top tier. Their Diet Coke is top tier if you know what you know. It just hits different. You can't get a Diet Coke from the store and it hit the same. That's just the truth. Ask any woman. That's true. But can we get Oreos from the store? Sure. And that's a grocery line item. So if those are your cravings, then you can grocery shop for them. I would say, fair game.

How much is a McDonald's? You want to know what I would do to make you feel better? What's the math on it? How much is a McDonald's large fry?

I would say, I don't know, three or four bucks, probably.

About three or four?

Five dollars? Oh, gosh. This is like, price is right. Two dollars? Four dollars for large fries? When is last time? Yeah, I was going to say four bucks. Okay, so four bucks once a week. That's about, you're talking 16 bucks a month. That's not bad. 20 bucks a month after tax.

I would cut something else out of the budget in order to make this the priority that it needs to be. Here we go.

Put a cravings line item and set it for that $20 amount. That's right. And then you have the permission to spend without guilt and without getting in a fight.

You could lower, hypothetically, you could lower your grocery budget by $16. Make it a meal. And just make a sub and just say, You know what? I will make this happen.

Sacrifice in another area so that you don't lose your progress. Trade off. But there's not a lot you can do. And the thing with pregnancy cravings, they'll just switch. You're like, Well, I just bought nine pounds of pickles. And now you hate pickles? You can't stand the smell of pickles. That's my life.

It does happen. What was Whitney's aversion?

I don't remember if it was coffee. The smell of coffee? She's going to correct me. It's all a blur when you have a pregnant There's a lot going on, especially when you got a toddler and she's pregnant. You're surviving. Oh, gosh. So no shade thrown at Jenna for wanting some fries once in a while. All right. Colton is in Huntsville up next. What's going on, Colton?

Hey, how are you doing?

Great. What's your question?

So I retired from the military. I'm 38. Moved up to Huntsville, Alabama, to take a sales job after I tried some sales in Florida and figured I might be pretty good at this unique It's a opportunity, and it's just door to door, cold calling all day, every day on churches, schools and businesses, selling LED signs.

Well, my first year, I made about $100,000.

So it was going pretty good.

Well, now this year is my second full year, and I've made about $502,000.

Whoa.

Dude, you can sell some LED.

Yeah. My retirement is about 68,000 a year, tax-free. I don't have anything else set up. I mean, I've got health care the rest of my life.

My daughter's college. Yeah.

Well, thank you for your service, by the way. And I'm glad you've transitioned into the workplace so effectively and spectacularly.

Yeah, it's been good. I like people.

Now, is this just a random good year, or is it you were like, I could do this every year? This is consistent.

It's a unique situation because I'm basically also in a roundabout way operating as a COO of the whole company because it's just a unique situation with the way the business structured.

I grind it a lot harder than I did the first year.

This year, I probably won't stress myself out as much to hit this level because we're just not internally set up to handle this amount of work by myself because I have to go quote the job, sell the job, acquire the customer, see it, get installed, close it all out, everything. Can you hire help?

You have enough money. Can you hire an assistant?

That's been recommended. Now, I've done a very good job delegating and paying people on the side to close things out so that I can move on to other jobs and other things like that. But I haven't thought about that yet. But I wasn't set up. I didn't see it was going to happen this way. So I didn't have a LLC or anything set up. So he's just been... Because I'm a 1099 straight commission.

Have you set aside money for taxes?

Well, I've saved about 430 of the 502 that I've made this year.

My gosh. Because you don't need it. That's what's crazy about this.

Yeah. I've saved it just all I was all out of fear of I didn't know what my taxes were going to be.

I didn't know what- You might have $150,000 tax bill, so I'd be on those quarterly estimated payments and not be shocked because you could get penalties and fees.

I just now hired an accountant and then a lawyer to set up an LLC so So this next year, I start getting paid through the LLC, start automizing. I got a 401k that I'm going to set up. I owe about 280 on my house. It's worth probably 350.

That's the only debt I have, no credit card debt. So what's your question?

My thing is, do I just... I have this huge goal of not having a house payment. And I guess my question is, do I take 70,000 and max out and put into the contribution, my 401(k) to avoid taxes on that, or do I just eat what my taxes are going to be, see where my money is at, and pay the house off?

If I were you, I would invest up to 15 %, assuming you've got 3-6 months of expenses set aside. If you don't take some cash, set it aside, earmark it as an emergency fund. If I were you, I'd do six months. I would then make sure you're investing 15 %. Once you get that 401(k) set up, that's the magic number you 15 % of your gross income.

Which that's 75 grand if you made 500.

Yeah, I could max contribute this year. The way I've got set up is 70 grand.

Sure.

And I didn't know if I should do that or just pay the taxes, what I'm going to take the hit that I'm getting hit with.

How old are you?

Get hit with. I'm 38.

Okay. I mean, you're basically front loading a new retirement fund right there with 70 grand. That's amazing. Now, if you want to pay off the house- Yeah, the time for the rest of my life is about 70 grand tax free, and then, of course, it goes up with inflation.

Yeah.

But if you wanted to pay off the house today and you just still have money left over to pay all your taxes, then you're really set up to build some serious wealth. Because if you keep making this money and you just invest most of it, you're going to have about $10 or $20 million at 60 years old.

Yeah.

That's just where I was at, is do I take that lump sum and go ahead and put it into a 401(k) to avoid paying taxes on it and get it invested, or do I just take the hit that I'm going to get hit on tax and then pay the house off?

Well, the good news is the house is going to get paid off. Yeah, it's going to get paid off fast regardless. I would get with your tax accountant and go, Hey, what's my best tax-saving strategy so I don't give the IRS more than I have to? And any money left over, pay the taxes with, and whatever's left after that, throw it at the mortgage, and you'll pay off the house next year.

And, Colton, good job. Well done, my guy.

Well, guys, we've been celebrating all week long Jade Warshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is officially here. If you've ever known what to do with your money but still couldn't follow through, it's not a discipline problem. Your emotions are getting in the way. Frustration, fear, shame, anger, all of that shows up in how he handled money. And this book brings behavioral finance down to earth. And Jade and her husband have lived it, and she unpacks it masterfully in a way that will grip you. You'll read this book in two days, max. It helps you understand what's really happening, gives you a practical approach to master those emotions that are sabotaging your money. You can get your copy for $24. 99 at ramsey solutions. Com/store. If you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. Sarah is in Chicago. Up next, what's going on, Sarah?

Hi, so I'm 23, and I graduated college in May of '25. When I graduated, I had two full-time jobs making over $8,000 a month after taxes. And last all coup hit me. For my grad gift, I bought a used Porsche for $20,000. And then I moved to Chicago, which doubled my living expenses. And then unexpectedly, last month, one of my jobs ended. It was a contract. And so now I only have one job. And I realized I could barely cover my bills with that job. And so I stopped investing for my 401(k), which left me a $200 buffer after. But then my student loan payment deferment period ended. And so now I have a 500 monthly payment that just does not fit in my budget, and I can't afford it.

So So now you're back in the red, negative 300.

Yes, exactly. What's the income? 4,000? What did it go down to?

So now, after tacos, I'm making, like 4,900. And my basic budget is 4,700.

Okay. So what it sounds like happened, and it happens to the best of us, you got excited because you were doing well. And I get it, but you started doing things out of order. And so now what I think George and I are going to attempt to is get you back on track in doing things in the proper order.

We're going to right-size, as they call it in the corporate world.

Right-sizing. You were investing. It wasn't quite time to invest yet. You were buying a car, but it was time to pay off the student loans. It was all jumbled up. So first off, the student loans, is that the only debt you have or is there other debt?

Besides the car loan, just those two.

Okay. So the student loans, you said about 500 bucks a month, but what's the full amount?

It's 46,000.

Okay. And then the car, what's the full amount of that? It's 20,000. Okay. And there's nothing else? No credit cards, no medical, nothing else?

No, nothing else. Okay.

Do you have any money saved?

I have a $60,000 total, like $45,000 in investments in $20,000 or $15,000 in my emergency fund.

So $15,000 emergency fund. I love that you said that. So the way we would teach it, and remember, the point is to do this in the right order. If I were to tell you, Oh, great, $15,000 saved. In the face of debt, it's not really your money, right? Because you owe 46,000 to one place and 20,000 to another. So is it fair to say that that's not actually yours? Yes. Yes. So what I would suggest you do, but it's also fair to say, Well, I need a little bit of a buffer, Jade. So that's the way the baby steps are set up. The first thing you need, you just need a thousand bucks. It's you You just need a thousand bucks between you and the rest of the world so that if something comes up, you can deal with it without going into debt. So that's what I would do. I'd put a thousand dollars aside, and then that would leave you 14,000. And I would take that and I would throw it at this debt because the next step is for you to pay off your consumer debt. With that 14, you're going to come very close to knocking out the car.

Then as you're paying off the debt, you're going to work to increase your income so you can do it even faster. Then after the debt's gone, now we start to save up an emergency fund, and it will actually be your money. It will actually be what it's intended to be, which is a safety net and a sense of security against all the things that might try to come at you versus what it is today, which is just this nagging feeling that it's there, but it's not really yours, and there's the debt there. We're trying to solve for peace here.

Nice.

How does that hit you?

I've listened to your show for a while, so I know that you guys, you I typically talk about doing the $1,000 emergency fund, but it really scares me. I was a foster kid who like, eight out of the system, so I don't have like, there's nothing I can fall back on if, let's say, I lose my other job. I can go back to being a server or doing anything like I will never, but it just really scares me to have nothing in savings. That really scares me. Like $1,000 is like, that. My rent is $2,200. I couldn't even pay my rent. That scares me a lot.

Here's the alternative, though. It scares me to have you sitting with 66,000 dollars of debt, and it's going to take you forever to pay it off if you're the normal American. And so this is a scary move that makes you, really, it lights a fire under you to get out of debt faster. Because right now, you're comfortable with the emergency fund, and comfort is the enemy of progress in this case. And so once you throw that at the debt, you're like, oh, game on. We're in this thing. So do you have a bunch of student loans? Are they broken up, or is it one giant loan?

It's a bunch. It's a bunch, yeah.

So you could probably knock out the 14K. If you got smaller debts that are smaller than 20K, you could probably knock out a few student loans right there, which frees up those payments, right?

Yeah.

That's good. Which could get you at least to a break-even point. And then what is your rent every month?

My rent is $2,200.

That's a big problem. Are you living alone?

I do.

Okay. That's eating your lunch right now as far as your take home pay to rent ratio. It's 45 %.

Is there a way to get a roommate? Yeah.

In my current... Chicago is expensive. In my current living situation, I couldn't have a roommate, but I could, like when this lease ends, I could move somewhere else. But my lease isn't until October, so that's not helpful until October.

Yeah. What about picking up a second job?

I'm super open. I've been interviewing and stuff, but it's right after the holidays. People are anything, but especially I work in tech, so it's just multiple interviews. It could take months. It's just nothing right now. But I'm open to getting a serving job or something like that. I would do that.

I do that immediately until the job that you really want does open up. It's going to help out your budget, number one, but it's also going to help out your mental state because that feeling of, Oh, my gosh, I'm just barely making it. I don't have a job. I'm not making the income. You don't want that to persist. And so bringing in income, getting your budget right side up is really going to help you. It's going to help you perform better in the interviews. It's going to All of that is going to be affected by that. I want to send you a copy of the book because the fear that you were talking about earlier about being a foster kid. I talk in the book about the fear of doing A certain action can actually keep us in a more scary place. And George said that. It's scarier to sit with $60,000 of debt. And it's almost like you're not able to see how scary that is because of this other fear that's operating over here that we can actually do something about. I want to walk you through that because this is so common and it makes a lot of sense.

I have empathy for that, and I want to validate. That makes total sense that you would have that scarcity mentality in that way. But it doesn't mean that it's an excuse to stay that way. I think we can walk you through it because right now you're calling in the show. So you're up against it regardless, right? So let's get you from against that wall and get you moving forward and not let that fear stop you from the progress that George and I both know that you can make.

Are you living in the city, Sarah?

Yes, I live downtown.

Okay. Do you need a car right now?

I'm in Chicago. No, you don't need a car. But I think I'm from like, well, Illinois, so I'm just very used to having a car. I don't know how to not have a car, but I think Chicago has great transit.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say is, I mean, you could really get out of debt much faster. You take your 14 plus the Porsche's worth 20, at least? Yeah. That's pretty wild. That's half your debt gone right there. Oh, I would do that immediately. Because here's the napkin math. If you don't sell the car, but you take the 14, apply it to your debt, leaves you with 52,000. Now, if you apply 1,000 a month, you're done in 52 months. You apply 2,000 a month, you're done in 26 months, about two years. Right now, we don't even have a dollar to scratch together because of our budget. So that's where I'm just showing you the reality. If we stay the same, you are going to be in debt for a long time. If you decide to make some drastic changes, two years from now, you could be debt free. You make two grand a month take home from this other job, where you sell the Porsche, now we're making progress. That's the goal here. So hang on the line. We're going to send you Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money.

We're rooting for you, Sara. You got this.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell here with Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at 888-825. 5225. Megan is in Virginia Beach. What's going on, Megan? How can we help today?

Hey, thank you for having me. Absolutely. I need some advice, you all. It boils down to two things. The first is how to approach the conversation with my husband about the benefits of combining our finances, and the second is whether that's even appropriate. To give you a little bit of context, my husband Alan and I have been married for two years. I came into the marriage with a mortgage, about $280,000 in a mortgage, but otherwise no debt. He came to the marriage with close to $300,000 in student loan debt and no assets. This is something that obviously we knew we had talked about. Unfortunately, he was unemployed for the first year of our marriage and has since regained employment. He's doing well. But during this time, our finances have been completely separate. He's did some of the things actually that you talk about. I think he's got some emotional baggage that's tied to that amount of student loan debt. He's concerned that should we combine finances, there's a possibility that the creditors may come after combined assets or they may We've tried to adjust his payment schedule based on our combined income, and I think that those are all valid results.

But some of the conversations I've had with him are, well, I think there's major benefit to combining our income because just the visibility, right? We would be on the same page. We would be able to plan for things together, like retirement. We wouldn't have to have the conversation about who's going to pay for dinner on Friday night? Who's picking up a time? You know? Like, stuff like that. And he's making a little bit of money now. He hasn't started paying the food in London yet. Oh, my gosh. It's a different story.

But- What does he make and what do you make?

Yeah. So I make about $140,000 a year, and he makes about $130,000 right now. Okay, great. But he owns his own business. So after all of the overhead, I think last year, he took home about $40,000.

What? Oh. So his income is only 40. It's not $130,000.

Yeah.

When you say took home, on his taxes- His revenues were $130,000, but his salary- After expenses, he really made $40,000, according to the IRS.

Right. And so part of that is owning your own business. He writes off a lot of things.

What is his degree?

I just got a lot of overhead right now. What did he go to school for? I'm sorry? What did he go- He was a lawyer.

Lawyer?

And what business does he do?

He's got his own law practice.

Okay. How long has he been at it?

About five years.

And each year, he's made 40,000 or less or more?

Well, No, this year has been the best year.

But I will say that- Hey, let me ask you a question. Is he a good lawyer?

He is. That's where I was going, is that his earning potential is going to keep going.

And so What's holding him back? Can he go work for someone else and make 50, 60, 70, 80K today?

He can, but he won't. Why not?

He won't.

He can't work for other people.

Why?

He doesn't play nice with others?

He's tried. He's a really good lawyer.

But truly, I need to understand that because if it's a real thing, it's a real thing, but if it's just a preference, then we have something that we actually need to talk about, right?

Yeah. So I've structured this conversation by saying, because I brought this up before, why don't you go to local law firm, ABC, and you're going to have some taxes that are going to come or some payments that are expenses that are going to come out of your payroll. But at the end of the day, we can budget and we can start to get on the same page about these things. It's not like feast or famine.

Building a business is different than just being good at the task that the business does, right?

Yeah. It's a good question.

We're looking at just basic napkin math going, If you make 40K, you're not going to pay off 300K.

Yeah. And that's what I've been struggling dealing with in addition to the conversation of combining our finances.

Here's the thing. You married this guy. I'm going to try to shoot you straight here. You married this guy, so you are one. Today, you're one. The things that you're talking about, you could benefit from a counselor. It seems like there's some things that you're frustrated with, unhappy with, and you've had the conversations, and it seems like it's to no avail. You could use a third party mediating between that so that you guys It can come to a way that you discuss this and it actually makes progress. Because right now it feels like you've just hit a wall and you feel like it doesn't matter what I say, he's not listening on the issue of him making $40,000 for the fifth year in his own law firm, that's not really a law firm. Okay. Now, as for the combining of money, I do believe you need to combine your money because at that point we're talking about goals and a shared lifestyle, shared values. I think that's important to do. Is it that he doesn't want combine, or is it that you don't want to combine because of the things you listed earlier?

No, actually, I wanted to combine. Okay, good. Just because I married him. I knew that he had the student loan debt, but at the end of the day, you were saying the goals and the values are much more important to me than other things that we can work through that I knew about.

Good.

But he has been hesitant to combine the finances Because at some point, he's going to have to start paying on student loan debt, and he's concerned that his payment is going to be larger because I don't- And there's where the values are.

Here's my thing. I think that's BS. I think this is all about pride and shame. I think so, too. And he doesn't want to drag you into his mess because he made it, and he's a big man, and he's going to take care of it. I don't think this is about a restructured payment that he's worried about.

Because if the goal is to pay the debt company off, then the payment amount doesn't matter anyway, because you'd be paying well above whatever they'd assigned to you anyway, right? Yeah. Right.

Yeah. And I've always been... I think it's also a difference in how we approach debt, because I've always been aggressive when it comes to repayment, hence the no debt.

Well, this goes back to the goals and values part, which is if you combine, these are the things that you talk about over your money meetings. You sit down with your spouse and you say, Okay, you share. Here's what I'm feeling. And I said I told somebody this earlier today. You sit down and you say, You know what? I've been feeling there's a disconnect with our money. I feel like this is an area that we really could work to be closer on and have more transparency and have more support for one another. I want to support you. I see the debt that is in your name, and I want to help. I want us to be one on this, and I would love if we could get on the same page. That's the first conversation, and start to bring those walls down. That's why I said a mediator help. Then once you get on the same page of, Yeah, let's pay off the debt, now it's, How intense are we going to get?

The byproduct is the budget. I'll tell you, it's a lot easier to pay down 300,000 with 180,000 income instead of 40. You are the light at the end of this tunnel. You should need to convince them that this is our debt, and we're going to pay it off together. There's no shame here. Put it down. Let's get to work.

Send her a copy of the book. Christian, please. Thank you.

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Alex is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Alex? What's your question today?

Hi, guys.

I'm just trying to call in to see if I can make a career change and become an entrepreneur in my life.

Okay. Tell us more. What are you doing now?

I'm a heavy equipment operator.

I make pretty good money.

I'd say I made six figures last year, which I guess just ended a couple of weeks ago.

And that was my first year making that much money.

So I got a lot of life coming at me right now. A hundred thousand or 200,000?

Yeah, 100,000, 104,000.

Okay. Way to go.

And you said you had a lot of life coming at you. What does that mean?

Yeah. So my daughter just turned one, actually New Year's Day. My other daughter is going to be born in April, and I just closed on a house.

And I'm getting married in October of this year.

Okay.

So the question is, you're wanting to transition out of your job doing heavy equipment into possibly starting your own business. What would the business be? The same thing you're doing now, just on your own, or something different?

It'd probably be something pretty different, honestly. I was looking at getting into real estate, and I was talking to one of my buddies, and he was saying that home inspectors make really good money, and that when he... It was a specifically mobile home inspectors, he was looking at purchasing one, and he said that the only guy in the area was booked out for a year. So I was looking to transition into that.

I'm trying to get to the core of what's driving this. Is what's driving this? I I don't like my current job, and I'm just looking for something else that seems like it could be interesting. Is what's driving this? I need to make more money, and this seems like something that could make me more money. Because it's not, I love mobile home inspecting, so let me go do that. So what's driving Right.

Well, I guess being in my mind as well as... Like last year, like I said, I made good money, but I worked a lot of hours, and I just wanted to be able to be more present in my daughter's lives.

Okay, I see. So it's time is what you're trying to get back.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah.

Okay. That's a good place to start. And I think that's noble. I love that. Do you have any debt? No debt?

No, I'm debt-free.

Debt-free. Getting ready to get married. I have something about a buy.

Yeah, you got the mortgage. Is your soon-to-be wife, fiancee, will she be working, or is she going to stay home with the kids?

She's currently a stay-at-home mom, and she probably will be up until they go to school, I'd say, at least.

Okay. So probably about five or six years.

Okay, so what do you guys need to live and to accomplish your financial goals? Could you live on... Because here's the thing. Home inspectors, I just looked it up. The average salary is 55 to 62,000 a year. So I don't want you to jump into this and go, Well, I'm going to be making more. I'll own my time. I'll be an entrepreneur. It may be a grind, and you might need to own your home inspection business long term to be making six figures.

Yeah, and you might have to be really good at it, which is brand new for you in that area. I feel like there's a huge curve there.

Here's my question. I like to get the boat close to the dock. Could you start to go through the training education process, pass the exams, get licensed if that's required, and maybe a year from now, we revisit this and see if you're still into it and you want to pursue it?

Yeah, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to start the process now, but then go full-time in a year, whatever the timeline is.

I'd actually take a step This is just me, based on what I've heard you say. I would take a step back. I would do, Ken Coleman, find the work you're wired to do and figure out what it really is that you would be wired to do that you'd be really good at, that you could go into business on your own or that you could pursue as a different path. Because this really does sound, and there might be more to it that you didn't say, but it just sounds like, Oh, here was an idea.

I'll just go with that. Just a random buddy offhand, and now it's like total career change.

Yeah. Before you sink time and money and effort, I would really explore your option. Nothing's on fire here. You've got time to really narrow it down and go, What do I want to do? What would I be good at? What would really light my fire? Because long Long term, you're going to want something that you're passionate about doing, so you actually stick with it. The money is not going to be enough. The time thing won't even be enough to sustain you if it's not something that you really, really want to be doing. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would just drill down a little bit more on what that career needs to be.

Okay.

I'd meet with some people who do home inspections for a living and get their take on the business and your area and what's going on, where you can make good money, and What's the difference between working for a company versus yourself? I would get all of that laid out and then decide from there. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. There's a get clear career assessment inside of that. Take that and use those results to then start to narrow down that next thing for you if the heavy equipment life isn't for you.

Okay. Then when would I know when I'm prepared to make that leap into becoming an entrepreneur?

It really is like George said earlier. Knowing Knowing that your wife is going to stay home, calculating what your mortgage is going to be. There's a couple of principles I'd go by. Number one, your mortgage can't be any more than 25% of your take home. That's going to be so, so, so key because for a lot of people, that's the make or break. Working backwards and say, Here's what we think the mortgage is going to be. Here's what we think it's going to take to operate our lifestyle, and knowing exactly what that number is. So you say, Okay, I need to find a way that I'm doing the job I'm doing now while starting the new business. And slowly but surely, that business is going to start making more and more money. So you're going to have a period where you're actually working more now.

You're going to be juggling a lot. And then the goal is you go, Okay, if I scale this home inspection stuff to full-time, this is what I could realistically be making. If I was doing this 40 hours a week instead of eight. So that's when you know, okay, I'm very clear. And you'll know it. You'll go, oh, my gosh, I love this. I'm making good money doing it. If I left tomorrow, I know I've got enough leads in the pipeline and connections and work that I could leave this heavy equipment job and go do my own thing.

Okay. Yeah. I guess my whole thing was like, I'm only 22, so I'm pretty young. So I got a lot of time where now I could make a jump. I feel like before, it's like I'm solidified.

I see a lot of the guys around me that hate their lives. Yeah, but making a jump with a pregnant wife and a one-year-old in a new home is not the time you want to go eat, pray love, and pursue your dream. Right now, you have a family to feed. We You can't risk a drop income.

Yeah. And to your point, you're 22. You have time. You have time, my friend. Do this the right way, because what's going to happen is when you start this, here's what could happen. You say, I'm just going to make the leap. I'm just going to jump. You get into it, you hate it, and you're not making any money, and you're like, Dang it, why did I do that jump? Whereas the way we're talking, it also allows you to get your feet wet and decide, Do I like this? Is this right for me? You haven't let your big job go yet, and you can make the choice. And slowly decide, versus I'm just going to jump with both feet and God will protect me. You don't want to do it that way.

Alex, we're also going to send you a copy of Dave Ramsey's latest book, Build the Business You Love, and that'll help you on the entrepreneurship side to really get a clear picture of what this is going to take, how do I grow this thing, and not just let it be a little side project and side hustle. I'm confident. You're 22, you're making $104,000. You're not scared of hard work. That's really the secret sauce of being an entrepreneur. People think, Well, Jade, I want to be my own boss and work four hours a week.

You're going to work more than everybody else.

Yeah, that is not entrepreneurship. You got sold a course and a lie. Entreprene is working 80 hours a week for six years just to get the thing off the ground to hope that you can sustain it, and then it still work from there. Ask Dave Ramsey. He's been at it for 30 plus years. Nothing about it is easy. Nothing about it is passive. If anything, it's more work, but it's rewarding if that's what you're wired to do. So explore it. I you the best. And those books are going to be really helpful. Jay, too many people, I like that he's at least thinking about this at 22. Too many people call us at 42. They're going, Hey, I hate what I've been doing for the last two decades, and I'm burnt out. I'm fatigued. He's doing this from a place of strength right now.

Absolutely. And so time is on his side. I think one of the most dangerous things people can do is get rushed, because when you're rushed, you get sloppy. And when you get sloppy, you make mistakes. He's got time. And most of us do have time. We make it seem like we're backed against a corner, but we're not. There's options and there's time, and we can take our time and do it right, like the song says.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramsey solutions. Com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramsey solutions. Com/start.

Are you staying on track with the Baby Steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan made just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode and click on the link titled, Are You On Track with the Baby Steps? And complete the quiz. Nicole is in Saint Paul, Minnesota, up next. Nicole, how are you today?

Good. How are you?

Great. How can Jade and I help?

I have a question. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have been for over four years now, and I have just been hearing some stories about stay-at-home moms being stay-at-home moms for 10 plus years, and then all of a sudden, their husband's wanting a divorce, and they have nothing, no financial credit cards in their name, no retirement accounts in their name. And I was like, Oh, that's me. I don't want to be that person just in case in however many years if something were to happen? And so I'm just wondering what steps I should be taking now to prepare myself financially.

How does your marriage feel today? How do you feel about your marriage? Is it in a good place? Do you feel like you guys have in a tough place?

We've been in a tough place for probably over a year now.

Okay. Am I right to say that that could affect how this conversation could go and his openness to the conversation?

Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure, honestly. I feel like I don't suspect that we would want to do that. To get a divorce or anything.

I mean, the conversation about you saying essentially, Hey, I've been thinking about our money, and I realized I feel disconnected from it, and I've been disconnected from it of my own volition. I haven't paid attention. I've let you handle that, and I'm realizing that wasn't the right stance for me to have on this. It's our life, and I need to... It's almost like you putting the ball in your court and saying, You know what? I need to step up here, right? I think that's a good way to approach it. How do you think he would receive that? Is he open to full transparency, your name on everything along with mine? Yes, honey, you are the beneficiary on my 401(k), see right here. I'll show it to you. Is he open to that? Yeah.

I used to take care of our finances of the budgeting and planning and all that, but then more responsibility has gotten my plate, so I gave that to him. And I do feel like if I were to bring it up to him, I'm like, Hey, let's talk about all this. He'd be like, Yeah, let's do it. Let's get you on that. Oh, good. But I have a lot of hard time trusting that he'll follow through with that. And so I'm feeling like I will have to do it, if that makes sense.

Well, I think that's okay. I will say when it comes to money, there does tend to be... Certain spouses will take the lead, more so in certain areas, but as long as the transparency is there and both people want to participate in their in the areas they're best suited, I think that's okay. So if you have the conversation, he says, Yes, 100%. Here's the password. If you want to pop in there and just check it, that's cool. Yeah, I think that's great. Now, as far as if the worst happened, nobody plans a divorce. So if the worst happened, would you be protected? The first step is, yes, I'm 50/50 on everything. We do things in both of our names, but there's a lot of it that will go into the hands of the courts.

In most states, assets accumulated during marriage will be evenly divided 50/50. If you're a stay-at-home mom, there's going to be spousal support on top of child support. So unless he's a deadbeat, we've gotten these calls, so I'm not saying it's out of the ordinary. We get the calls, we're like, Oh, yeah, he just doesn't pay, and we can't find him. Can't find him. No, I hope that's not this guy. I hope he's an honorable man of integrity and character and takes care of his family, even if in the event of a divorce. But knowing where the money is at, the accounts, the debts, the passwords, the insurance, making sure that your wills are in place. These are things you should do anyways, regardless of what's going on in your marriage. But I think that's wise. And being a joint owner on the accounts. Do you guys have a joint checking account?

We do. We have one bank account. Both of our names are on it. All of our savings accounts are there.

Good. Okay. All that stuff is going to help. I don't even like talking about it in a way because I'm not trying to predict that for you. But I think for the most part, when we do get those calls about deadbeats, there were red flags. There were markers there that indicated that this person might end up being that type of person. It doesn't sound like you have that. It sounds like you got spoofed by something you heard. It's like, Could you get in a car accident? Yeah, you could. But you're a safe driver. You wear your seat belt. Do you see what what you're saying. And so what George and I are suggesting are all of those normal precautions that you should take that are going to keep you safe. But I can't say that there's a 1,000% guarantee that somebody couldn't turn out to be a deadbeat, if that makes sense. The good news The good news is you're a smart woman. If you needed to, you could land on your feet, and I believe that just by talking to you.

Great. Is there hope that we're going to resolve this? Can you guys go to marriage counseling, or is this like, Hey, this is a fork in the road, and it could go either way.

I mean, we're doing marriage counseling currently, and I think it's helping some. I think the big part is I think the trust of feeling like I can depend on him in these really major things.

Yeah. Rebuilding trust is... I mean, that's paramet. The whole relationship is built on that. When it's broken, it's crazy because it takes forever to build and you can break it in an instant, and then you got to rebuild. And so I'm sorry you guys are going through this. It's not a paranoid hypothetical in your life. This is a real concern, and you have a right to be worried. Then I would go do the things I can control. I would work on me. I'd work on my marriage. I would make sure that I have access to the accounts, that I'm a joint owner on anything I can be, that I'm legally protected as far as wills and life insurance and beneficiaries. All of that is wise.

Can I ask a question about the kids? How old are they?

Four, two and a half in two months.

If it made you feel better, and I'm not saying you need to do this, I'm just putting myself in your shoes. If I had true worry about the future of my marriage, truly, like, Man, I don't know if we're going to get out of this. There might be part of me that would start thinking, If I were to work, what would I be doing? If I had to pick up a job, just hypothetically, if I had to pick up a job, what would I do? What would that look like? Would I need a degree? Would I need money? Having that conversation with yourself could be a good thing. Again, I'm stepping very lightly because I'm not trying to... There's a difference in trying to plan for a disaster that you know is imminent versus just putting some bad juju out there, I guess, for lack of a better word.

Planning a new life, and you're already living it in a sense.

Yeah. I'm not trying to... You see what I'm saying. But only you know where you're at in that relationship. If you were at the point where it started being at. I just don't know. I don't know. That would be the smart thing to do for you and your children and for him, too, because you want everybody to land on their feet. So I'll just throw that out there.

Nicole, we're wishing you the best. I hope that there's healing and restoration in this marriage and that this is a thing you never have to deal with and just a thing that you had to think about for a little while. But it is a real concern. And those calls are heartbreaking when she's like, okay, what's your income? Yeah, you got to avoid it. What's the child support? The alimony? Oh, he hasn't paid. The courts ordered it. He just doesn't.

You have a deadbeat, somebody who hasn't been in the workforce for 15 years, that thing.

It's very tough. But I do think it's wise. If you were working before kids, Keep those skills sharp. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe the marriage is great, the kids go to school and you decide, I want to go back to work anyways.

Exactly.

Man, that's tough. We always say that marriage is divorce is 50 grand, and it turns marriage into a business transaction. That's really sad. But then it becomes, who gets what? What accounts go where? It just becomes this split, this chasm that you have to deal with. You got young kids in the mix, too, which just makes things way more complicated, and it's heartbreaking. The best thing to do is prevent a divorce and have a healthy, strong marriage, have the accountability and transparency. That's why we recommend combining accounts. Then there's no surprises. You can't have financial infidelity when she gets transaction alerts on everything I do, which is what we do in my family. I'm like, What did you spend? Okay, I'd rather have that than, I didn't know you did that.

Oh, absolutely. I have every password, every single one.

Sam Warshaw, watch your back, bro.

Don't try it. He never would.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions. Com/agent. That's ramseysolutions. Com/agent.

Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13: 16, But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices, God is well pleased.

Mark Twain said, Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. True words. Deborah is in Dallas up next. What's going on, Deborah? How can we help?

Yes. I was wondering. I wanted a prenup. I've never been married before. My fiance has, and I just feel like I've worked hard, I've saved, and I just want to know is that a good way to protect myself in the event that something happens? Of course, I don't want a divorce, but things happen. So, just here to get some advice.

What's your net worth?

It's about 600.

600,000? Yes. How much of that is your home and how much of it is it a business that you own?

I don't own a home. I actually sold my home in the height of COVID and made like $130,000. I put that in my IRA. So 330,000 is IRA. 120,000 is just my personal savings. And then I recently did an investment in a real estate property where I'm going to make anywhere between $130,000 to $150,000 off of one flip.

Okay. And how much is the debt on that?

The debt on that is $310,000. But of course, I did a hard money loan. So once that loan is paid off, I pay that back and the profit from the sale of the home will go to me. Again, it's estimated based on the appraisal of the home before I finished my flip, I would profit anywhere between $120,000 and 150,000.

That's a risky deal. Okay, that's a different call. Tell us about him. How long have you guys been dating and engaged for?

We've been dating four years. We've been engaged almost a year. He was previously married for 20 plus years There's two children. They are grown now. And he had to, of course, split his assets, his retirement, he had to sell their home. And of course, his networth isn't as high as mine. And I'm just- Does he have a lot of debt? He has never been married. He did not, but he was just left with not a lot after the divorce.

What do you make and what does he make?

We both make the same thing. I'm about 100 grand a year.

Okay. Does your family have a bunch of money? Yeah, I have a job. Is your family quite wealthy? No. Are you standing to inherit a bunch?

No.

Okay. So you think his networth is maybe a few hundred grand?

I don't even think it's It's pain.

Okay. I'll tell you the general parameters around prenups. It's not a never, and it's not an always. It's if there is a huge discrepancy in networth and in income, then it could be It's really to protect against crazy family versus, I don't trust this person, and I think it's going south. Now, in your case, 600,000, you've done very well. I'm very proud of you. But the income are about the same, and it's not like you have five million and he's in crippling debt. I don't think the variance is so far that I'm like, Oh, girl, you need to get a prenup yesterday. If you both feel like this is wise and you both feel like this is the move, you can do that.

Well, he's against it.

Why What is that? I like to know the heart behind why he's against it.

He just said that he's never asked me for anything, and he feels like that a prenup is the doorway to saying we're going to be divorced. I tried to explain to him that that's not the case, that while we're together as we grow financially, we'll both benefit from what we have and what we grow together. But in the event that something happens, I would like to maintain what I came into the relationship with, which would be my IRA, my personal savings, and the rehab and business that I started with the homes. But he just says he doesn't want to do it. He thinks that a prenup is saying, We're going to get divorced.

How old are you guys?

I am 45, and he's 53.

Have you brought this before a counselor, or it's just been the two of talking about it?

It's just been the two of us. We only had one conversation. I left it alone because I was like, Well, I guess we're not getting married. And he was like, Well, I guess we're not. And I just left it alone because I thought it was getting a little heated. I mean, it wasn't a heated conversation, but I could tell it- You had an impasse. Yeah. So I haven't brought it up since, but I really, really wanted to.

I'm trying to get underneath this to go, how much of this is maybe the shame and baggage and trauma from his divorce, and now it's triggering all of that, of like, Well, you think I'm going to go back to that? And he's having to relive that.

Is that part of it? Yeah. Is that part of it? His defensiveness? I don't know. He said that he was young when he got married the first time, and I was like, That's my point. We're not young anymore. So I look at this as a protection instead of a bad thing, like a safety net instead of a bad thing. But he's just against it, and I don't know what to do.

Was he? Did Did he have fully combined money with his previous wife?

They didn't have combined money. He just took care of the household. He took care of everything, paid all the bills, and she was free to willy-nilly do whatever with her money.

I'd love for you to explore that more with him because it feels like, and I don't know, this is just a few minute call with you.

We're strangers after four minutes.

It almost feels like I could see him thinking, You know what? I don't want to do that again. I want to be fully combined. I I don't want there to be trust. I don't want to be this business where I'm over here and she's over there. And then if it goes our separate ways, I'm just left here. I can see his side of it. I'll be honest, just given the numbers, I would not suggest it for you. I wouldn't say, Yeah, you need it. I can understand your emotion around it, specifically, Well, this is a second marriage. Is there a chance that this could happen? You know what I mean? I could see your side of it, too. I think there's a lot of emotion here to work I would suggest working through it with a counselor, somebody who can see both sides and give you guys the language to express what's really going on at the heart of this. I would say to both of you, if you were both on the line right now, I'm going to just say this because this is what I would do. Pray for an open heart, both of you, and say, Let me be open to what they're saying, because if either of you is coming into this very closed off, it's going to be hard.

But if you can pray to be open-minded and have an open heart and really seek to see the other person's heart on this, it's going to help this come together. I don't know where it's going to land for you both, but I think that that could not hurt. It won't hurt the process.

Okay. I think that was one conversation. I would dig deeper and say, Hey, I don't want to let this stop us from getting married. I love you. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I just want to get to a place where we can understand each other. Maybe that means you do get a prenup. Maybe it means you don't get a prenup. But we have to align on this before moving forward. Time is of the essence. I don't want this to drag on for three years of an engagement, will they, won't they, over this piece of paper. It's also you got to look at the laws. Maybe it's, Hey, in Texas, only things that were acquired during the marriage get It's a deal with. And so you might go, Hey, even without the prenup, he's not going to touch my IRA from before we were married, for example. Got you. I'd also get clear on what the laws are because it may be a moot point, and we fought over nothing. Got you.

Okay.

I hope that helps. Thank you for the call.

Thank you. All righty. Bye, guys. Bye.

Oh, man. That's a tough one. Two calls in a row.

Yeah. You know what? I think I'm going to go out on a limb here. With social media, you see a lot more of people's stories. You can see other people's lives, how it pans out. There's a lot of people telling you a lot. It's up to us to synthesize that and say, How common is this? How real is this? Am I at risk? I think we are just opened up to way more.

You hear about the edge cases that are crazy You don't hear about the ones where they just split it 50/50 and it was amicable and they walked away or whatever it is. That's the hard part. The previous call, they were going through some struggles, and she was a stay-at-home mom wondering, Am I protected in the case of a divorce? Then you got one that's on The post-end of that, of, Hey, we found new love, but he's been divorced, and I want the prenup to protect what I've built. And that's another part of marriage, is are you aligned on the financial values and goals of, All right, he's not doing well with money, but I've done really well, and therefore, I don't want to hitch my wagon. Well, that could be a red flag. Now, that's not their case. He's doing really well. He makes great money. He's not in crippling debt. He just had life happen.

But the red flag, going back to that, it matters because you and I, we've taken tons of these calls, and there's always something. There's that thing that you noticed and you ignored. And in this case, she's been with this guy 4-5 years. You know, you can see, are the red flags there? And if they are, listen to them. If they're not there, assume goodwill and assume, Hey, this is a good guy. Even if it doesn't work out, we'll work it out.

Absolutely. Hey, that's the end of this hour. But remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.