Transcript of JRE MMA Show #188 with Paddy Pimblett

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Finally. My man, what's happening?

Oh, wow. It's nice to be here.

Nice to meet you. We might need subtitles for this episode, ladies and gentlemen. If you're only listening, please go to Spotify. Perhaps we'll throw some. That Liverpool accent is thick, bro.

I'll never forget when I fought, when I fought KG on Song Yedong. It was called Main Events, on the embedded. It had Song Yedong talking, no subtitles, English as a second language, and then it cuts to me and I'm talking. It's got subtitles underneath. I'm like, English is my first language.

Actually English, from England. The real English.

Oh, it's crazy. But a lot of people just can't understand me. It's mad.

Well, I can understand you. I mean, I've been over to England many times, I guess. But it is, it's thick. It's cool accent, though. Out of all the English accents, Liverpool is one of the coolest.

Yeah, I love my accent, know what I mean? I wouldn't change it for nothing.

How long have you been in America?

Now? I got here.

Oh, just today?

I got here. Sunday night.

Whenever you get somewhere, do people try to feed you? Is that like the first thing they try to do?

You get fed a lot in America. Like, you get fed a lot in America. Portion sizes are great, though. I love the portion sizes. The thing with me is, the one thing that kills me is Coca-Cola.

Really? That's what gets you?

Yeah. Coca-Cola is my favorite drink on the planet. It is. Cherry Coca-Cola or Mexican Coke in a glass bottle. That's my favorite drink. And when you're in America, when you go out for a meal, it's refills. So I have that much Coke left, and the waiters will come over, take it, and put a fresh one down. And I feel like it's rude not to drink that. They just put a full one down. It's rude not to drink it.

Do you ever, like, what is the heaviest you've ever gotten to?

I think the heaviest I've ever got was like 210, something like that. But I was fat. You know what I mean? Like, crazy amounts of air.

After which fight was that?

It's only ever when I'm in America.

Really?

That's when I go, that's when I go big. It is. If I go other places or I stay at home, I never get that big. You know what I mean? But I got big. I think the highest I got after a 4 Justin was like 205. I think that's the highest I get to now. Like 205. But if I die for a week, I'm right back down to 195.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Because it's just like loads of salt and sugar in my body. If I die for a week, I get back down.

We have terrible food over here. Our food.

But it tastes great.

It tastes great. It tastes great. But our food is poison.

But it tastes marvelous.

It's just filled with sugar and preservatives and all kinds of shit that keeps you eating it. It makes you addicted to it, but it's not good for you.

Like, I'm not big on like the chocolate or the, oh no, I like them Ruffles, them crisp. Well, chips, you just call them.

Yeah.

Them Ruffles are good. But I'm not big on like the snacks over here.

Really?

Yeah.

Snacks in England are better?

I think they are, yeah.

Really?

Like chocolate bars. Chocolate bars are better in the UK.

Well, apparently some of our chocolate isn't even really chocolate.

Yeah, it's not chocolate anymore. It's like made in a lab, basically.

Yeah.

I've seen the videos.

I saw that. I was like, what? I don't know what companies are making shit chocolate, but.

But if you get like a real legitimate, like artisan chocolate bar, you go, what is this?

Yeah.

You go, oh, this is what real chocolate tastes like. Like. I don't like dark chocolate, though.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

I love dark chocolate.

It's too sweet. Like, we have one in the UK called Bournville.

I love dark chocolate and skippy peanut butter. I take a big old jar of peanut butter and a big, big bar of chocolate, and I just break it off in there and scoop it out.

See, I do that with Nutella.

Oh, that's good too.

I get a chocolate bar and just dip it in Nutella and just have it, boys.

That's like double chocolate.

Chocolate on chocolate.

Yeah. Chocolate assassination.

Yeah, it's unbelievable.

So you're here in America. You obviously must be coming to the fights this weekend, right?

No, no.

You're not?

No.

You're not going to Madison Square Garden?

No.

How come?

I was filming an ad there yesterday. I was in the PI, well, the Apex yesterday, filming stuff with Meta. And then I'm here today, and then I fly home tonight.

Oh, really?

And then I get home 10:00 a.m. tomorrow, and then I'm flying to Dubai on Thursday.

Oh, wow. What are you doing in Dubai?

Family holiday with my wife and the kids.

Oh, that's nice.

But one of my teammates is actually fighting on Saturday, so I'll probably go and watch him.

I think there's some sort of a ceasefire with Iran. Is that true? I read that today that something that it's over.

No.

No.

I have no idea.

Depends on whose tweets you're reading. But I'm saying like Dubai is a little sketchy.

Yeah, we was literally after a 4KG, I went to the Maldives. I went to Oman before at Oman, lovely country. Had a great week there, and then went to the Maldives. And we was due to fly home, and then all that started happening. And we were meant to fly back through Abu Dhabi, and we got stuck on this island in the Maldives for like another five days.

Oh, that's, listen, if you're going to get stuck in the Maldives.

No, we're going to get stuck anyway. The Maldives is the place in it.

Pretty nice.

But then we was meant to go to Dubai in the April, and obviously because of all that, we had to cancel it and just go to Tenerife. But now we're going. Hopefully nothing happens over there.

Damn, it's crazy that you're here and you're going to leave before the UFC. Like, the Madison Square Garden UFCs are special.

I've only ever been one when Rose beat Zangue and Osman fought Covington. Went Channel 4 KG as well that night.

Oh, okay.

I think that was not long after my debut in like 2021. That's the only MSG I've been to.

It's a special place.

I want to fight there at some point, like definitely.

Oh, fuck yeah.

I'm going to leave it for now. Taxes are a bit heavy in New York.

Yeah, if that happens for the, oh, taxes, is that what happens? You get hit up with big taxes?

Yeah. I get taxed twice, don't I?

Ooh, that's right. Because I get taxed twice when I go to Canada.

I get taxed obviously in America and then get taxed again when I get back to the UK.

Oh.

Killer.

These evil rotten cunts. Just thieving cunts.

Dirty bastards taking the money of air.

I can't understand how they, how can they do that? How can they tax a man twice? That is so criminal. And they just can't. There's nothing you can do about it.

Exactly. There's nothing you can do about it.

You're okay. Just fuck me.

Take the money.

Just fuck me.

Just got to get on with it.

Yeah. Let's go. That's brutal. I didn't even think about it that way. So you'd much rather fight in the UK, right? Is Vegas okay? Vegas doesn't tax you twice?

I like fighting in Vegas.

Do they tax you twice?

Well, the taxes are nowhere near as high, Addie. But I'd love to fight in Abu Dhabi.

Yeah.

That'd be great.

Do they have low taxes?

I think it's low or next to nothing, you know what I mean? Especially compared to some other places.

They don't need your money.

Yeah.

They got plenty of money. New York is just massive fucking vacuum cleaner of money. But it's still awesome. There's something about being in Madison Square Garden. I'm a firm believer that buildings have memory. I really think they do. Because it feels like there's something about New York, especially Madison Square Garden. You go into that building, you feel the memory of all the things that have happened in that building. That building's a special building.

Yeah, no matter what, before I retire, I'm going to make sure to fight there. No matter what.

Yeah, you got to.

Yeah, I'm going to fight there 1 million percent. You can't not fight there.

Out of all the places in the world, I think that's the number one. That's the number one place. Like, if I was a fighter, I would want to fight there.

Be number two for me.

What's number one?

Anfield.

Oh.

Liverpool Stadium.

Yeah. Oh my God. That would be incredible.

Yeah, it'd be next level.

Oh, you could do it. You could do it.

I know I could do it. It's just like the UFC doesn't like doing stadiums, and especially with the English weather, I can't.

Yeah. I can't blame them. But you know what? If you figure it out and put some kind of roof over the octagon.

Yeah, that's all Jadid did over the octagon.

Yeah. Give everybody umbrellas.

No scouts didn't care if it was raining on them.

No.

Believe me.

No.

They'd all be going bananas no matter what.

Probably make it better. Be more exciting if you want.

Yeah. Give it even more of an atmosphere.

Soaked with rain and screaming their heads off. Especially we did in the summer where it's not too cold. You know, it's raining.

Yeah, it's June. You'd have to do like, because the football season's until May. You have to be like June, July.

Oh, that's totally doable.

July in Liverpool.

Be unbelievable.

Whoo. Oh my goodness. So what, are you in a holding pattern right now? Where are you at right now in terms of like your next matchup?

I'm just waiting. Like, the division's in a bit of a mad situation, isn't it?

Yes.

Like, obviously, it all depends on what Justin's doing.

Well, before Volkanovski beat Ivloev, there was a lot of talk about Armin. You know, Armin just knocked out Rufy. It was an amazing fight. And then there was talk like Armin deserves it. Armin should be fighting Justin. But now I hear Dana talking a lot about Volkanovski, and Volkanovski says that's what he wants. If they do that, the one good thing is that's it. Justin's going to retire. Volkanovski's going to retire. So it opens up two divisions.

Yeah.

And your division now, it's basically just you and Armin left and Ilya. You know, those are the three.

I think if, it all depends if Charles wins as well, doesn't it? Because if Charles beat Lopez.

Yes.

He's obviously in the mix.

That's true. Well, he does still have the BMF title. Yeah, so that's true. He's in the mix as well. But, you know.

Volk has just done a big fight, like, it would.

The big money fight is obviously you and Ilya. That's the big money fight.

Yeah, it's probably one of the biggest fights the UFC can make.

Yes.

Even without a belt on the line.

Without a doubt. That is bigger than most fights with a belt.

Probably is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Especially, you know, when now you take into consideration Ilya's performance against Justin, we look fantastic for the first couple rounds, but then Justin won and stopped him. And then you managed to, I watched, I rewatched that fight last week with you and Justin. It was a very close fight. It was a lot closer than people remember. And when you think about the amount of experience that you gain from a fight like that, and then you come back after that fight and that fucking choke that you put on Benoit Saint-Denis, I've been messing around with that.

I've seen them, yeah.

It's pretty cool. But the way you did that and rolled with it, so when you start it and then you wrapped your legs around him on the top, and I was thinking the amount of pressure, like from here, here, are you calling this the padlock or the pad tie? What do you call this?

I'm calling that the pad tie.

The pad tie.

Because what I'd done to Jordan Levy, I'd already called that the padlock.

Okay. So it's like a Peruvian necktie, but like the pressure you've got on him with your leg over the top of his back.

As soon as he rolled him and faced down, he was out. Like that's what I think I seen. It's like the second fastest pass in UFC history.

It was phenomenal. It was phenomenal.

It was two seconds slower than the next one, but he's already out there, so it's faster than them.

I forget who called this. It was either Dean Thomas or it might have been Brandon Shaw, but one of my friends called this. They said, "He's going to shoot on Paddy and Paddy's going to catch him."

I was saying it all week. I said it, I'd done a podcast with DC the week before, the Sunday before, when I was started waterloading. And I literally said to him, "He's going to come out and he's going to shoot." Because if you watch all those fights, I'm a big thing on studying people and seeing what they do. And we have a lad in our gym, Kyle Mounfield. He'll make a breakdown video for us. And look, as soon as he gets it, head kick, shoot. He either goes backhand, shoot, or head kick, shoot. If you watch all of his fights, he does that.

Really?

Never done it. I've just done it on the fly.

Really? You never did it in practice or anything? Oh, that's incredible. Well, you recognize.

I've never really done a Peruvian necktie before.

No kidding?

And I've done one, me and Paul, we went over it, what, like four weeks out from the fights in the gym.

I remember.

Because after it, but in the cage after it when Paul came in, he was like laughing as hell. I've gone, "The way we've done that Peruvian necktie the other week." And it just happened. Like we've done so much. I've done so much work leading up to that for so many different things, like defending on the wall and doing, I've done so much wrestling in the buildup to that fight. And yeah, I never forget Paul sitting in the back after it, Paul coming up to me and going, "All the work we've done for that." Because he just dicked around with guillotines for 10 minutes.

It's funny when something plays out that way.

Yeah.

Benoit's a hard man.

I knew he wouldn't tap. I was saying before, I was saying it in his and stuff, he'll go unconscious.

I'm sure.

I knew he wouldn't tap. He's not like that. You know what I mean? He wouldn't tap. He'd go to sleep and he did. He went out on his shield. I've got nothing but respect for him for it. I felt bad for him after it. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Seeing videos of him, like looking up at the replay there, like the tears in his eyes. It makes you feel bad, but it's kill or be killed, isn't it?

They're by the sword. I mean, that guy's a warrior, like a literal warrior, an actual warrior. You know, like a guy who fights in war. He's a hard man.

Yeah, he is.

And he's not going to tap.

No, definitely not.

He's not.

He's definitely going to gecko.

He's done it to people. You know, he'll do it to someone again, I'm sure.

Well, his next fight's a very good fight. He's fighting Salkid, isn't he?

Ooh.

I think that's a very good fight.

Salkild is a bad motherfucker.

Yeah, he said like watching him fight, he's good.

He's good. He's exceptional.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's exceptional. Boy, that division is on fire right now.

Yeah, it is.

It's interesting how that happens. Like divisions have lulls and then great periods where it seems like right now is one of the greatest periods of all time for the 155-pound division. You know.

I think it's always been like the most watched, the most exciting division. Like, I think it always has. I just think it's because of like the weight we are. Like, it's like more like the average human person, isn't it, as a round.

There's more.

Yeah, there's more.

More elite athletes. And then you think about it, more people that are coming from kickboxing and wrestling. But like, there's a lot more kickboxers and wrestlers that are roughly in that weight class.

Yeah.

So you get these elite athletes from these other sports that enter into MMA. You know, it's just, it's a phenomenal weight class, like especially right now.

Yeah, when I first started watching MMA, it was like BJ Pim. You know what I mean? And like Diego Sanchez and that.

What year did you first start training?

2010.

2010. That's wild. 16 years. Wow.

More than half my life now.

Wow. What was your first discipline?

MMA.

Just right into MMA.

Yeah.

No kidding.

The gym is still training at now is the same gym I walked into.

That's incredible because your jiu-jitsu is so good. I assumed that you had a jiu-jitsu background at first.

That was the one thing I had, like I talked to straight away, jiu-jitsu. Like the first class I ever walked into is like a kid's class. And I'd never done anything before. Like I remember wrapping a guillotine on someone. And the two lads who were the coach in the class went like, you know what I mean? It was like, he's doing a guillotine there. He's never even been shown one. But that was just off watching it on the telly.

Yeah, it's amazing how much you learn watching on TV. It really is.

That was like I started doing stuff just off watching things. And then obviously I started training. And as soon as I started training, I was like, this is what I want to do.

Wow. Right away.

Yeah.

It's amazing that there's such a wealth of gyms across the world now that we're seeing people from everywhere.

Yeah.

We're seeing people from all corners of the world that come into the UFC already with elite skills.

It is like, I never seen anything the other day. Like about 10 years ago, there was only like, all the champions were from like either Russia, Brazil, or America. And now they're just everywhere.

Everywhere.

Like Australia is big in the MMA world now. Obviously the UK, we've had a few champions.

Well, when Ilya came out of Spain, that was the first guy that we'd ever seen from Spain that was at that level. We were like, what? Whoa. What's going on over here? It's fascinating. You know, because I say it all the time, but it really is true. Martial arts have evolved more in the last 33 years since the UFC emerged than it has in the last 33,000 years.

Yeah, definitely.

100%.

100%. Like that's what I always say with our sports. Like when I first started watching it, you could just be a world-class kickboxer or a world-class wrestler or a world-class jiu-jitsu practitioner. You didn't have to be good at anything else.

Right.

You could be one-dimensional and still become a world champion. Now you can't. You have to be well-rounded or you will get beat.

100%. Yeah, 100%. This is a different world. The levels too. I think the new thing is going to be, you have to be able to switch stances. I think that's the new thing.

I like switching stances, to be honest. So works on me.

Yeah, it's so important. It really is. Because when you face an elite calf kicker, like I was watching some sparring footage online of Volkanovski was sparring Niko Kurylo. You know, that guy from One, the elite kickboxer. Do you know him?

I was talking about him a game about two hours ago.

Motherfucker. He's a bad motherfucker.

Weird the way you just mentioned him. I was literally talking about him like two hours ago.

He is a bad man. He's a bad man. And I was watching some of this guy was breaking it down. I wish I could remember the gentleman's name, but he was breaking it. It might have been Jack Slack, but he was breaking it down. And it was just showing all the ways that he's setting up calf kicks and setting up, you know, positions and just breaking down all those things. And like, if you get a guy who is a really good calf kicker and you are only orthodox and that's all you can do and you get that left calf smoked, it's you're fucked.

It's snooked, yeah.

It's so crazy how that one thing sort of changed the whole game. If you get your calf smoked now, like it's not like a leg kick. Like a thigh kick, yeah, it hurts like hell. But guys can survive that and still perform at a pretty high level.

It's mad though that just started happening. Like who was the first person to throw a calf kick?

I thought that it was Benson Henderson, but then someone said that it might have been Cub Swanson. That Cub Swanson might have been the first guy that started hurting people's calves.

Obviously, no one done it. Years ago, it's come in like the last five or six years.

Not only that, but the Muay Thai guys used to say that that won't work in Muay Thai. That that is only good for MMA because MMA guys aren't good at checking kicks and they're not good at like staying aligned. That's not true anymore. Because now Yukiyoza, do you know who that guy is?

No.

Yukiyoza is a bad motherfucker. This Japanese cat that just destroys people's legs. He's a Kyokushin guy.

Yeah.

And he, every combination is chopping at your calves. Inside, throwing punches, inside, low kick, outside, outside, low kick. It's constantly, every combination is ending with a calf kick or a low kick. And you're seeing these Thai guys who have 115 fights and their fucking legs are smoked like halfway into the first round.

That's the thing with a calf kick as well. You can be in very close range and still land it.

Yes, exactly.

Like with a one on the thigh, you've got to be out a little bit and use your range. I like throwing them from range though, to be honest. I like using my range when I'm playing.

Well, you did a fantastic job against Bobby.

Yeah.

Bobby Green, you neutralized him within the first couple minutes or first minute or so of the fight just with those kicks.

Yeah, with that one, I think like obviously Bobby's got phenomenal boxing. You know what I mean?

Yes.

His combos and his timing and his speed are brilliant. So with that, it was when you're on the feet, use your range. I knew I was bigger than him.

Yeah.

Try and kick him. TEEPs, calf kicks, head kicks, keep them on the NGO range. And it worked perfect. I don't think I even got punched in that fight.

No, you did. Well, like I said, you neutralized him pretty quickly. You fucked up his movement pretty quickly. And he's got such a weird style because when his hands are down, you don't know where anything's coming from.

Just comes from all mad angles.

And he's talking shit to you.

Everyone thought that he shot in in that fight as well when he never kicked his leg and his leg come out.

Right.

And it was either for him, it was either try and grab my leg and get on top or go on all fours and me take you back. So he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, really.

Yeah, it's amazing to me that your jiu-jitsu is that good and you didn't just start with jiu-jitsu. Because generally when someone's that good on the ground, I assume that they had a big competitive jiu-jitsu career first and then got into MMA.

That was the first things I don't have done, obviously, because I started when I was 15. I've done a couple of like grappling tournaments first. They were the first things I done. Like I remember winning a couple of kids' divisions. But then when I turned 16, like two months after my 16th birthday, I had my first fight. I took it on like a week's notice for a lad who was 24 when I was 16.

Wow.

And our rules back then was knees to the head. Just the only real change was no elbows. That was the amateur rules back then.

Knees to the head on the ground?

No, knees to the head standing.

No knees to the head standing.

Grand and pound. Grand and pound, knees to the head standing. It was just no twist and leg locks. They were the only thing. No elbows, no twist and leg locks.

No heel hooks then?

Yeah.

But you could do a knee bar?

You could do knee bar and straight ankles and stuff. But they were the only, that was the only real change. You know what I mean? And took that on a week's notice and won that by decision. And I remember getting like my hand raised and just being like, this is the best feeling in the world. This is what I'm going to do. You know what I mean? I just knew from that point on.

That's amazing. Well, England has an amazing scene. There's an amazing scene in England.

You want to see some of the kids in our gym, lad.

Yeah?

I've got kids in our gym who are like six, seven, eight who are then every night doing jiu-jitsu and doing MMA. And then now we've got a load of youngsters who train with like the pro team of a morning who are like 14, 15, 16, 17. They're all like, I'm half world and European champions and.

Wow.

Like they've already had like 15, 20 fights, some of them, and they're about 17.

That's incredible.

It's madness.

I'm a big fan of Cage Warriors.

Yeah, Cage Warriors, as I always say.

Amazing event.

The best show in Europe by a mile.

Yeah, it's an amazing event.

If you want to get in.

The level's so high.

Yeah, if you want to get in the UFC and you're in Europe, you need to sign up for Cage Warriors.

Yeah.

Like I've got, like most of my teammates fight on Cage Warriors. We've been doing Friday night, Saturday night show at the end of the month, 27, 28 in Manchester. And across the two nights, we'll probably have about 10 to 12 pros on it.

That's on UFC Fight Pass, right?

Yeah, yeah, it's on Fight Pass.

Yeah, I always encourage anybody, if you're a fight fan, get UFC Fight Pass. And if you want to watch who's coming up, Cage Warriors, the level of the top guys is UFC level.

Yeah, it is.

100%.

And on that, that's the big difference I see with Cage Warriors and other shows in like Europe and obviously around the world. People get to like 10, 11, 12 and know, but the fighting taxis rabbits, the fighting absolute crabs.

Right.

Who don't deserve to be in the cage.

Right.

Where Cage Warriors, you don't fight people like that.

No.

You get it. Every single fight to test. Like I've, I lost more fighting Cage Warriors than I've lost in the UFC. You know what I mean? And I was younger and I was coming up, but.

Right.

I got tested just as much in Cage Warriors as I have in the UFC. And that's the same with all my teammates now. There's a load of my teammates who are on Cage Warriors who are going to be in the UFC. Like Nathan Fletch has already been in the UFC. He got caught, but he got one of his fights, he got robbed on a decision. I know he'll be back. Adam Colin, who's my weight class, he'll be in the UFC. Connor Wilson, who's a flyweight, he'll be in the UFC. Joe Fields.

Lonnie Cavanagh.

Nick Q. Lonnie Cavanagh's London.

Yeah.

But he was Cage Warriors world champ.

Yeah.

Like if you look at all the fighters who've come from Cage Warriors to the UFC.

Yes.

Most of them, 80% of them stay signed.

Yep.

Just keep fighting. See Christian Leroy Duncan, Lonnie, me, Luke Riley, Modestus.

Mm-hmm.

There's a load more though. My mind's just gone blank. But there's a load more there. Obviously, Aspinall had a fight on Cage Warriors as well. But if you compare that with like other shows in the UK and Europe.

Most of them.

Most of them people are having one or two fights and getting caught.

At the top, it's UFC level. Yeah. I mean, there's so many guys there that are just, you watch them fight and you're like, those are legit elite skills. That's very important. You know, and to have a place like that in England where you guys have UFC level competition and then you're already used to fighting guys that have elite skills. And so as you said, you entered the UFC, it's not a big shock in terms of the skill level.

They're actually doing Cage Warriors Spain next year.

Oh wow.

Yeah. There's a lad who, he was main event the other night. I'm terrible with names. Well, he comes and signs with us. His name's Mo, but he was main event on Cage Warriors the other night. If you could get his name up. I just call him Mo though. Because he comes to gym, he spars with me, he trains with me. And like he's Spanish. I think he's like nine and one or something like that. And he's good, lad. He's a welterweight. And he's, I think he'll end up winning Cage Warriors belt and getting signed. It's funny because he trains with us. Everyone always asks him, how's he? Paddy, how's he? And he's like.

That's a rocking-or-heart place for him. How did this feud with you and Ilya start?

It started because of that, what was the fight that he got caught? The Georgian? Giga?

Giga Chikatzi.

Started because of him. He just tweeted something when I first got signed. And obviously I tweeted back. I was only, I was very, very young and immature then. I was 26, but I was about 16 in the head. And I just, or 25, I was 26 and I started having mad with him. And I said, you look like a fake Russian.

A fake Russian?

Yeah. Because he had the beard and the no hair. You know what I mean? He looked like a Dagestani. And he took proper offense to it. And I was like, this Russian shout's working. And I said, shut up, lad, just because you get terrorized by Russians. And then I went to bed. And I woke up the next morning to the most hate mail I've ever had in my life. I was like, what's going on here? He only said something. And then people are saying that I'm talking about a war. You know what I mean? Like and Ilya still says to this day, he talks about kids getting bombed.

Right.

I had no idea that he'd had a war. No idea in the slightest. And he still says to this day that that's what I was talking about.

Oh.

In Liverpool. Like if someone's bullying someone, we'll say, oh, you're getting terrorized there.

Right.

The word terrorized in Liverpool has nothing to do with war. It's just like, oh, you're getting the pistol out of you there.

Right.

And I was just taking the pistol out of him.

Also, because you say terrorized and you were talking about Russia and you were talking about Georgia.

I think they just assumed I was talking when I didn't know that they'd been to war.

Oh wow.

The fact it wasn't Giga. Why am I lying? Giga was signed, I spoke to Giga. It was Goran. Goran Kuteladze.

Oh.

It was him.

Okay.

Yeah, because Giga was being caught. But it was like I ended up speaking to Giga about it at a UFC show and he was cool about it. I said to him, lad, I didn't have no idea. And he's like, I understand. A lot of people didn't know. Giga was so cool about it. And I was thinking, why didn't, why wasn't Ilya like that? But the way I look at it now, Ilya used my profile to get himself bigger. Because at the time, no one knew the fuck Ilya Toporiyev was. You know what I mean? He was taking fights at lightweight against Jai Eby. When if you want to be featherweight champion, you don't do that.

Well, he took that just as a short notice fight.

That's what I mean.

Yeah.

Like, and he'd done that probably just to be in the same place as me and try and size on me.

Don't you think he just took it because it was a good fight and they offered him money and he wants to be active?

Definitely not.

You really think it had to do with you? Really?

All to do with me. People are going to call me a big-headed cunts and all that, but I'm not asked. He got on that show because he knew I was like the main thing on that show and he wanted to be there and bumped into me. The funniest thing about that when we bumped into each other, I just went, I'm going to go and warm your eggs up, boys. And like Ellis and that were like, wait there, we'll come now. I was like, nah, I'm shy, lad. I'll just go and warm your eggs up. And London went downstairs and the thing happened.

Warm the eggs up. What does that mean?

Put my eggs in the microwave.

Okay. I thought there was like a term.

No, no, just going to warm your eggs.

Just actually put my eggs in the microwave.

So as I've put the eggs in the microwave, as I've popped it open, got it out, went to eat it. And as I went to turn around and walk away, Ilya's just come out of this double set of doors with about 14 people. And I'm just like, and he looked right at me and I'm thinking, is this going to go off here? So I've just put my eggs down. And it's being like the table wasn't this big, but it was about half the size. And he's come over and said something. I've just went, what, lad? What are you going to do? And he's half swung at me. So I've just moved out the way.

Right.

Not an end of actually happening.

Right.

I just threw the unsanitizer at him. Because he threw a punch at me, but where he's only little with short arms, he missed. You know what I mean?

So was there words? Did he tell you, I'm pissed off because you can.

No.

No?

Well, he'd said, he'd put a tweet before it. But as I say, when all that tweeting shit was getting done, I'm just tweeting back to people. You know what I mean? I'm not even, I didn't even know who the fuck Ilya Toporiyev was.

Really?

Yeah. How the fuck am I meant to know who he is? He's just some little dickhead. I don't know who he is, lad. No one even knew who he was. And it just went from there. You know what I mean?

Right.

And then I think the next time we seen each other was the next when the press conference, when I fought Gordon and he fought Levi Price that night.

I believe so.

Yeah, I think that was the next time.

I think so.

That was the next time we seen each other. But then I was out for a year then, because I got injured in the Gordon fight. I was out for a year and given Miss Jew, he built up fast. But as I said, I don't think he would have been built up that fast if he didn't use my name for clout.

Right. Well, that's where we disagree.

Yeah, no, it's respectfully disagreeing. You know what I mean?

It's, at the end of the day, using the name is one thing, but that guy has, you've got his skills.

I respect his skill set. He is, he's Elise with skill sets, brilliance. I do. I respect him as a fighter. I just don't respect him as a person.

Well, I think Georgians are very proud people.

That's what I mean. Oh, is he Georgian?

Well.

Is he Spanish? Is he German?

He's probably a little bit of all those things.

That's what I mean. You pick one, lad. You can't be all three. Pick one. Can't be all three, lad. Are you Georgian, are you Spanish, or are you German? Because I reckon you've got a German passport because you were born in Germany.

Right.

So stop trying to get a fan base from three different countries.

Well, he's Georgian descent, right?

Yeah, his family are Georgian.

Yeah, I think you're Georgian forever. If you're Georgian.

Why does he walk out with a Spain flag then?

Well, I think he likes living in Spain.

Oh, he just wants more fans.

You think that's it?

Yeah.

Really?

I've heard everyone in Spain is turning on him anyway.

Everyone in Spain is saying that?

Everyone thinks he's a fucking fake cunts.

Oh, come on. Really?

No, I have, as I say, I know people in Spain. You know what I mean? People are meant to be turning on him in Spain.

And that was this before he lost to Justin or now?

There was little ruffles of it before he lost to Justin, but then obviously it went worse since he lost to Justin.

Once you lose, that's all.

Oh, you have to bandwagon.

All the pussies come out of the joint.

They want to tear you down even further. Yeah, always. That's always, you can always see that. It'll be heavy if I fight him and he loses again then. He won't have any fans left.

Oh. Well, that is the fight that has to be made.

It does have to happen. Like it's been years in the making.

It's also an exciting fight skill-wise. Like it's a very exciting fight.

I love them kind of fights because I get counted out in them type of fights and they're the fights I like. You know what I mean? When people don't think I'll win.

Well, if anybody looks at your performance with Justin and his fight with Justin, and then you beating Benoit that way, I don't know how anybody can count you out in any fight. Like with anybody in the 155 pound division, you're a nightmare.

I am a weirdo. I always say that. You can't really train to fight me because I'm so strange.

It's a very unusual style, but it's pretty fucking effective. The other thing that you fuck people up with, I think people have caught on now, but for a while you were so jolly and having so much fun and dancing and all that stuff that people didn't take you seriously. But I was saying to a friend of mine, I said, this is what I want you to watch. I want you to watch his ring entrance and then watch his eyes once he gets inside the octogon. Watch the switch. I go, because there's a switch. And here it is.

Yeah, that's something that I say to myself when I'm walking out. I'm having the time of my life. I love it. You know, all the crowd dancing with you, singing with you. Just know that the only better feeling than that is when you get your hand raised at the end. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But when you get in there and then your opponent gets in there, that's it. That's gone then. It's all about him. The way I look at it when I get in the octogon is there's only two people in the world, what matter. And it's him, because he's trying to kill me. And the ref, because he decides when this fight's finished. No one else on the entire eighth of seven, eight billion people matters. It's only him and the fellow who's going to decide whether the fight's finished. No one else matters. So you need to keep your eyes on him. And he's not going to sign it yet. So your eyes need to stay firmly focused on him.

When did you develop that ability to be loose and silly within super serious once you get in? Was that something you always had?

I think, yeah, that's something I've always had, to be honest. Well, when I was younger, when I was, I had like nine amateur fights. Went nine and no amateur. And then I was four and no problem. Then I lost my first fight, four and one. All them first 14 fights, I always walked out of rap music. And then when I lost, I switched it up to dance music. Because I was always, I was like, I used to love partying and going out all the time. You know what I mean? And that was the sort of music I listened to. And a couple of fights, I had a couple of different songs.

No, it's iconic now. It's like there's certain things, like when Frankie Edgar used to come out to Biggie.

Yeah.

There's certain, it just, it seems wrong. Or when Uriah Faber, he would come out to California rock.

Yeah.

It's like once, that's like who you are, you know?

That's what I mean.

Yeah. Do you know the story of Rory McDonald?

No. What one? I've heard stories about Rory, but.

This is the great story. Rory McDonald used to have the weirdest fucking walkout music. And you could see like the look on his face when he's walking out, like, what the fuck kind of music is this? And everybody was like, God, Rory's got such weird taste in music. Well, it turns out Rory had changed his phone number. And the UFC had his old phone number. And so the guy who got Rory's new phone number turned out to be a fan. And so I think it was Joe Silva or whoever it was from the UFC was texting this fucking guy and saying, what do you want your walkout music to be?

That's sick, though.

It's so funny. I mean, I think the guy did it for like four fights. How many fights did that guy pull that off for? It is one of the funniest things.

That's sick, though, you know?

It's very funny because, you know, you got to imagine this guy being a UFC fan and then he realizes it was, holy fuck, I got Rory McDonald's old number. And then he manages to keep, he doesn't say, hey, this isn't Rory, this is Bob, you know, can I get tickets?

Yeah.

No, no, no. This guy pretends he's Rory.

Oh, shit, though.

I mean, I got a list of the songs. I don't know exactly when it started, but it's on a Reddit thread. I got different songs he had here and what happened.

Can't switch this MC Hammer. That's definitely where Rory McDonald, that one.

I wonder when it changed.

I was looking for the exact moment it changed. It could be all of them for all. I don't know. This is a 10-year-old thread.

I wonder. Shout out to that legend, whoever that man is. Who is the guy?

I don't know here either.

Look at this. A random person who inherited his phone number selected. That is such a great fucking story.

I had it when I went to me last time at your fights. We were fighting basically on like a Ravel Gym show and I was fighting someone from the Ravel Gym. And they changed me walkout song.

To what?

I was going to come out to Eminem, go to sleep, and they changed it to like Sandstorm or something like that. It was like just a, and I was kind of stood in the back like, what's going on here? And my coach, Paul, was like, they've done that on purpose. They've changed your song. Don't worry about it. Just go out and win. And I did.

Well, there's always going to be people fucking with you. Especially the psychological aspect of MMA is such a huge factor. Because when people genuinely hate each other and they're thinking about their opponent all day long, no matter what they do, first of all, they're going to train harder. They're going to get more hyped. But then they're also going to have more anxiety when they actually get to that moment for a lot of people.

Yeah.

You know?

I think that's a perfect example of an Aldo against McGregor.

Yes.

Yeah.

Jose Aldo was so out of pocket by the time he got into the case. He was so emotional. And so before, if you look at Aldo's other fights, look at his fights like Chad Mendez.

Yeah, he stayed calm.

Calm like an assassin. But Conor is the best at that. He gets into your fucking skin. He wears it.

That's why I think.

Inside your head.

Brilliant divide on a season of deals and a fight over the dealer.

That would be insane.

That would be marvelous, you know?

I've heard talk about that online, but has anybody actually suggested that to you?

No someone. Because when I was in Vegas for George's contender series fight, George Staines, I just got, I think the ultimate fight of finale was that weekend. And he just asked me like, what's your favorite season of the ultimate fight in that? And my favorite season's Rampage with Chad.

Ooh, yeah.

It's when I first started watching MMA.

Call me a bitch.

Yeah.

You're a bitch. Call me a bitch. Make me a bitch.

That was the season what was on as I first got into MMA. That season and season four with Nate Diaz, that was the, when I told my mom I was watching MMA, my mom and dad, that was the first MMA DVD they bought me. Season four of the ultimate fighter.

Wow.

Was that season five? Yeah, season four was Mat Saturday on that way then.

How many seasons are there?

There's about 30 or something now. Like the first DVD I got bought was the Nate Diaz season where he beat Manny Gamboan in the final.

Do you know the story about Nate going to, he won like 1,500 bucks or 15,000 bucks and he went to a car dealership? He had no idea how much cars cost. And he was like, fuck. I can't even get a fucking car.

But they just said like, what's your favorite season? And I said, I think Rampage with Chad. I was like, you need to get back to that. Like now obviously, I haven't watched one for three years. But like when it's like Chael and DC and Brisbane and DC, they're not going to fight each other. No one's that.

Chael and Vanderly was a good one.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Three people who hate each other and going to fight each other.

Yeah.

Like you need ones like that. Like even if I remember Brisbane and Maye and Miller, that was a good season.

That was a great season.

That was, I can remember watching that one live. That was a good season. Chuck and Tito, even though Tito didn't end up fighting, ended up beating Rich Franklin.

Conor and Michael Chandler.

I didn't even watch that one.

Oh, it was a good one.

Yeah. But they didn't end up fighting.

They didn't end up fighting. They didn't end up fighting in it's a fucking travesty that Chandler sat out for two fucking years waiting for that fight.

I know.

If I was his friend, I would say, Michael, you cannot do this. It doesn't matter. You must stay active and you're elite and you're 37 years old. Like you can't take two years off. You just can't. At his age, you just can't do that.

I know. He was doing it for the McGregor payday.

I understand.

He's an understanding why he'd done it.

I understand, but he would have got that payday anyway. He would have still got that fight. Conor would have taken that fight. That's a good fight for Conor to come back to.

Yeah.

It's a solid fighter, tough guy. And, you know, not at the peak of his career. It's a good fight for Conor to come back to. And they fucking talked mad shit to each other. It would have been wild. And the way Chandler fights, he's a mad dog. I mean, he just comes at you.

He is like, he didn't, I was surprised when he started to take me down.

Were you really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't think, I can remember speaking to DC in the week before and I was saying, he's going to, I said to DC, I could take him down. And DC was like, what? What? DC laughed at me. Because I was like, no, I'll take him down. He was like, he's Division One wrestler. I was like, so? I'll take him down. And he was like, no, pad, no. That's not happening. I was like, we'll see. We'll see. But then when he come out and shot within like the first minute or two, it was like, wow, I didn't expect that. I just thought he was trying to come in and try and take me head off. Like he does with everyone.

Right.

You know what I mean? I expected him to come out and try and put it on me.

I think by the time you had fought him, he was, look, I'm a Chandler fan. I love the guy as a person. He's a great fighter. I think his wars that he had before he got to the UFC, if people have never seen them, have you ever seen any of his?

Holy shit.

They are absolute scraps.

Fucking crazy fights. I mean, some of the best fights that Bellator ever put on were those two guys going after each other. They left a lot in that cage.

Yeah.

And then obviously his war with Paul Reyes, war with Gagey.

And I'd heard, I don't want to spread a rumor, but I'm going to, I'd heard he wasn't sparring much anymore. And that he was just getting in condition and, you know.

He's always in shape, like, you know what I mean? He's always in shape.

Super disciplined.

But that's where I'm the opposite to that.

Right.

I spar twice a week. I love sparring. I love punching people in the face. I'm getting punched in the face. I love, I don't understand the way Holloway says he doesn't spar.

He did for Gagey.

Like, that's what I mean.

He realized he had to spar when he fought Gagey.

Like, how aren't you sparring for these fights? Like, I feel like I need to spar to make sure I get my timing down and that I can actually hit people and like things, stuff that you're doing on the pads doesn't always work when you spar someone.

Right.

And you realize what's going to work when you spar.

100%.

But I am a weirdo. Like, I just love fighting.

Well, look at Strickland. You know, Strickland spars constantly. Constantly. Perera too. Perera spars constantly. Perera spars this week. Perera sparring this week. I saw video footage of him sparring some bare knuckle guy this week.

I would spar this week, but my coaches wouldn't let me. So I'll spar sparring like the Tuesday before. So like 10 days out.

Okay. That's smart. That's smart. Because bruises and bullshit and little things that can happen.

When Oliveira was meant to fight Islam the second time, wasn't he sparring like the week before and that's how we got the cut?

Uh-huh.

Like, that's just, yeah. Obviously, if we sparring that close as well, we're wearing that guard.

Oliveira comes from a crazy gym though.

Yeah.

You know the history of Shoot the Box?

Oh yeah.

The early days.

Crazy motherfucker.

You want to talk about a mad dog gym? Mad dog gym of fucking killers. Pele, Anderson Silva, Ninja, Shogun, Vanderly. Fuck, man.

Yeah, I used to love Shogun.

Oh, all those guys were terrors. Terrors in pride.

Yeah.

In pride. That fucking, that one team was terrifying. Shoot the Box showed up and you're like, oh, fuck. Just mad animals. And Jaffe Cordeiro was a phenomenal coach.

Yeah.

Such an elite coach.

See, I think we should have some pride reels in the UFC.

I agree. I agree. What are you thinking? Come on, let's talk.

I think you should be able to kneel on the floor.

I think so too.

And I think you should be able to kick on the floor, just not stomp.

I sent this to a group chat that I have with Matt Serra, John Rallo, and Dean Thomas. We have this podcast we do called Protect Your Neck. And we sent this group chat and I was like, this is something that I think is wrong. Like, knees to the head on the ground, especially when you're not near the cage, is a completely legitimate move.

I don't understand why it isn't.

And there's places where people are stalling.

Yeah, they stall and rest there.

And you can't stall there in a real fight.

Yeah.

So why do we have this one position where in a real fight, it would never be able to, you'd never be able to do that.

Yeah.

Ever. So you're allowing like one of the best techniques, if a guy's in a turtle position and you have head and arm, holy fuck, man. That's just game over.

Yeah.

You know, and those guys in pride, like Mark Coleman, you ever see Mark Coleman use knees from?

Marquay used to do it as well, didn't he?

Oh my God. You give those guys that tool in pride when someone gets to a turtle position or when you get half guard or, you know, when you're on side control on someone.

Yeah.

Side control completely changes.

Exactly.

Because right now, side control is like, you don't see a lot of grounding pounds.

And you can't really get many shots from there either.

Right. So guys are either moving them out or they're trying to set something up, but man, you got the knees to the head are right there.

I just think it should be legal. Knees to the head and soccer kicks, but not stomps. I don't think stomps should be legal because your head's got nowhere to go. So once it hits the canvas, it's got nowhere to go. But soccer kicks, your head's got somewhere to go.

Well, one tried doing that. I don't know if they still have soccer kicks. I think they might. But what they would do is the referee, at least in the early days, used to be able to say whether someone's clear for a soccer kick. So they'd have to tell the fighter it took, and I think the stipulation might have been if they're near the cage. So this is my only point against soccer kicks and stomps. And even knees to the head. If you're trapped.

Yeah.

If you're trapped and you get stomped, that's pretty fucked up.

Yeah.

Because then you have this artificial environment, this boundary that is.

That's the reason I don't agree with stomps.

Yeah.

Because if you stomp someone on the head, it's got nowhere to, it's just hitting the floor, don't even bounce them.

Right.

But if it's like, like what Shogun used to do with soccer kicks where he would throw the legs and then kick them and I just think they should be legal.

Did you ever see Melvin Manhoef?

Yeah.

Versus Sakuraba?

Melvin Manhoef had a lot of fights in Liverpool.

Ooh.

He used to fight on the, he used to fight in the Olympia in Liverpool. Melvin Manhoef, he fought a scouser a couple of times. Paul Cahoon.

He was a monster, man.

Yeah.

He was a fucking monster. And he would come out with a dog collar on, just dancing around. He was so powerful, man. He was such a freak.

He was one of the first people that was finishing people with leg kicks really.

Oh yeah, man. Yeah, he was finishing, he finished Mark Hunt with one punch. He knocked out Mark Hunt.

I know.

He was a middleweight as well. He's like 185.

Yeah.

And he knocked out Mark Hunt, who's like 270 or something. Especially in pride when they don't let you, you can weigh whatever the fuck you want. That was, Melvin was a monster. And he's another guy, like, you know, you have Shoot the Box in Brazil. Mike's gym in Holland is famous for like just ferocious assassins. You know, like so many of those guys who could butter Hari came out of there. Here it is. Boom. I mean, to knock out Hunt.

Look at the size difference.

Look at this. Boom. I mean, that is crazy. That just shows you how spectacular Melvin Manhoef was in his prime. He was so fun to watch too, because he would come out with those gladiator shorts on and he'd be dancing and he just looked like he couldn't wait to fight. Just couldn't wait to get in there. See if you can find Melvin versus Sakuraba. That was a hard one to watch.

No, yeah, that was a crazy beat down.

Oh, okay.

Like Sakuraba's a legend, but he had too many of them.

Yeah.

Like, why did they make him fight one? They're like four times.

Look at his legs. Look how taped up his knees were. His knees were destroyed by then. Destroyed. The fact that he would go in there with, look at his knees. They're wrapped up like a fucking mummy. That's all like athletic tape, man. That's to keep his knees glued together.

Yeah, so it doesn't pop out of place.

All his ligaments and all his shit, everything was destroyed. His cartilage, his fucking meniscus is gone. He's got no knees, man. He's in there on adrenaline and heart and samurai spirit.

Oh.

Oh, this is terrible resolution.

Yeah.

Who filmed this fucking thing? This is like some 1960s film.

Bro, he was so ferocious. He was so ferocious. By the time he got to Bellator and, well, by the time he got to Strike Force, Robbie Lawler knocked him out.

Yeah, he was.

That was a crazy man.

The back end of his career then really.

Yeah. You could only take so many of those. And the way he would fight, it was do or die. Like someone's going to sleep. Period. There's no decisions. Melvin Manhoef fights. It was just chaos.

If it went to decision, it was an accident. You know?

They were chaos. I'd love to do that though. You know, I'd love to just keep fighting. Keep round, round, round until someone finishes someone. I think that'd be sick.

Do you think, this is an interesting conversation that came up the other day. Josh Barnett actually brought this up on Ariel Helwani's show. He said, I think that five minutes is too short. It's too short a round. And the old days of pride, it was 10.

10 and two fives.

And two fives. Do you think that's better?

I think all rounds need to be the same length.

Do you think they should maybe do for a title fight three, 10 minute rounds?

Yeah, that'd be good.

Ooh.

Be all right, wouldn't it?

That would be wild. Especially some of these guys.

As long as you haven't got someone's back of the body triangle, he's standing you up.

That was crazy. That was crazy.

That was crazy.

That was crazy. That was the worst stand-up in the history of the sport.

Yeah.

I love Dan Murgliata. He's a very nice guy. But he's a human and all humans fuck up.

Make mistakes, yeah.

You just don't do that. I don't care if the crowd's booing. Let them boo. They're casuals. He's got his back. Is it the most exciting thing in the world? No. Still better than baseball.

Yeah.

Stop. Stop. It's still better than baseball.

No. If someone's got a body triangle and you're on someone's back, you can't be standing them up.

Listen, you know.

Like my coach Paul said to me, that happens to you, I would get kicked out of the arena.

Yeah. It is insane.

It's your work so hard to get to that position. And it only takes half a second for them to move their neck or move their arm out of place and you've got the choke.

Yes.

So like.

And it can happen.

Yeah.

You know, and you got to give a guy an opportunity to work. He also landed something like 50 punches from that position. So even though he didn't land anything that was like putting him in trouble, he was still active. He was still doing something. He was still doing this. He was still doing something. He was trying to, you know how it is.

He's another fighter I love as well, to be fair, Moy Kano.

He's great.

He's great.

He's great on the mic too. Money Moy Kano.

Yeah.

He starts talking shit and gives you economic theory.

He's great though.

He starts talking about economic theory on the podcast. He's like, yo. He's very smart.

Even like a, I can't remember when he beat BSD. I was having a drink with my mates and we were just about to go into somewhere where there was DJs on and we stood outside with it around five past on our phone. And I'm standing there with like eight of my mates and we're going, please mention me. Please mention me. Please mention me. And then he mentioned me and we're all like that. Yes. He could be next. Was that, I don't know if it was after or before or for Chandler, it was a few years ago, but Lavi were like, yeah, it's all made up, celebrating, thinking, yeah, Moy Kano's next. And then the fight just never ended up happening.

A report, a spreadsheet. It'll even build you an app. So whatever you've been putting it off, hand Perplexity Computer the job. Try it at pplx.ai/jorogan. Well, he's the guy that figured out that talking shit was the way to, it took him a while.

Yeah.

You know, because he watched like early in his career, like he beat, God, was it? I forget. He beat some good guys. But I forget who it was when he first started talking shit.

Did he, I was going to say did he beat Ortega and Ortega beat him, didn't he?

I think so. I don't remember.

I'm just trying to figure out what's the right word. I can remember obviously before I was in the UFC and I'd have a little bet on it. I can remember I had like, we called it an accumulator, he would call it a parleg. I had like six fights and it was when he fought Aldo and I thought, he's the new lad coming up, Moy Kano, and I put Moy Kano on, he was the last leg. And then he got finished.

Yeah.

I was like, oh.

Aldo's still Aldo.

Yeah, no matter what, he's still there.

He's still a bad motherfucker. It's amazing how young he is. I mean, he just retired. And a fight that I thought, did he lose to Cub? Who was his last fight?

No.

No.

What's his name? The Canadian. Amire Al-Bazi.

Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah.

Zahabi, Al-Bazi.

Yeah.

Zahabi.

Eamon. Eamon Zahabi.

Eamon Zahabi.

Yeah. I thought he won that fight. It was close, but I thought.

A lot of people thought he won the bounties fight though, didn't he? A lot of people thought he won that one.

Yeah. So where are we at, Jamie? Where, so, yeah, Zahabi was the last one for Aldo.

Like it was years ago when he fought, when he fought Moy Kano. Because I was in, I was in Mexico with my wife like 21st or something.

There it is. Right there. TKO punches in Brazil. He gets pretty fired up in Brazil. I was there in Brazil when he beat Chad Mendez and he ran out of the cage and ran into the crowd.

Yeah.

Ran into the crowd. It was like dancing with all the people in the crowd. It was amazing. It was amazing. He's the king of Rio, man. But when he was on top, he was a bad man. He was, he just was on top so young that when you look at him now, what's interesting is like he struggled to make 45 and then when he got down to 35, they realized like, well, that's, he's an elite at 35 still.

Yeah.

You know?

He was like one fight away from a title shot at 35.

Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible that, you know, these guys, they have to figure out what their frame is. And the way weight cutting is today, you, it's just very hard. Like Frankie Edgar during his prime, he didn't cut any weight.

No.

Which is crazy.

Wild.

Absolutely crazy though. But I think that's why he was so durable too.

Yeah. And he had some of the best conditioning as well.

Oh, conditioning was fab.

Fab, fab, fab easily.

Yeah.

Yeah, I can remember watching that, the first or the second great man out fight lad, but it was the second in the trilogy, but the first title fight, lad.

Insane.

The way he come back in that fight.

Insane.

Everyone just thought it was over.

Was a bad motherfucker in his prime. Grey Manor was an elite wrestler who had crazy power. Like crazy and really good boxing skills and was aggressive. And he put it on Frankie and I was like, oh, this is over. This fight's over.

I couldn't believe him. He come back like this.

I couldn't believe it.

I was watching that live.

Came back and stopped him. You're like, how? How?

Yeah, because he got rocked in both fights, didn't he? In the first round.

Yes. Well, Grey rocked a lot of people.

Yeah.

Grey has serious power. And you know, in his prime, he was a threat to anybody. He could catch you and you were fucked. And he was a big 55 for that time. Now it seems like the 55, like, you know, some of these guys are fucking huge. You're huge. When I see you in there sometimes, once you've reinflated, you know, I'm like, good Lord. Like you're so much bigger than 155 when you fight.

People think I'm lying when I get back in there, but I can remember when I, like literally.

Can I guess? Which weight?

Yeah.

180, 182?

190.

190. Wow.

When like I weighed in at one, the last one I weighed in at 156 was drinking only liquids. Two hours later I was 170 again. 160, now 170.

Wow.

Then I ate like breakfast and stuff. Then I have a nap. Then I go back to the arena and do the official weighing. And then we go back to the hotel and have a proper feast in the night. And then I wake up the next morning again like 185, 190.

Wow.

And then I'll have like, I won't, I don't normally eat that much the day of a fight. And then I'll go to the venue. And they weighed me last time, but like I had the, I'd empty my pockets, but I had the tracksuits on and stuff like that. And I was 193 or 4.

Wow.

But that was with the tracksuits on. And that's what we just called it 190.

Yeah. That's a lot of weight.

Like what makes me laugh is when a 4 kg does a video of me in the back eating some jellies and people are like, yeah, that whole bag of sweets. It was a fucking kilo of sweets, lad. Think I'm eating a kilo of fucking sweets in the back, you silly bastards. I had a handful of them. People were like, yeah, the full thing, yeah, the full thing. I was like, I never, you know what I mean? There's no excuse for that fight. You know what I mean? It's not like I ate it and he just beat me.

I know elite endurance athletes that eat candy.

Yeah. No, it's.

They like to eat.

Yeah.

Fast carbs.

Yeah.

It's not good for you in the regular circumstances if you live a sedentary lifestyle to eating candy all day. But if you're like, remember Courtney? Courtney Doe Walter. Courtney Doe Walter, who is a, she does these ultra marathons. She beat all the men. It was, I think it was a 250 mile race. And she was, I think, was she eight hours ahead of the first, the second place person who was a guy?

I think so.

She drinks beer, eats candy.

My type of woman.

Just insane mental toughness though. Insane. Like in one of her races, she got so delirious that she fell. She like stumbled and fell, cracked her head, went blind, couldn't see. And as she's running, she's like half blind. And she keeps falling down. And she just keeps running. So her head's all cut, it's all fucked up. Still won.

Belta.

Still came through. I don't know if she won that one, but she still finished. 250 fucking miles. I think she did win that one, right?

Yeah, 250 miles.

She's won quite a few of them. But she doesn't just win. She was winning these races and beating other men by like seven, eight hours. Like that's so fucking humiliating.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Like that lady could have taken a five hour nap and still fucked you up. Because they don't sleep. These people, they don't sleep. They just stay up for three days running.

Yeah, that's my marathons at the next level. I don't understand how people can do them.

Well, my friend Cam Haines does it and he's a complete psychopath. It's like they're trying to die. They're trying to force themselves in a situation where either they die or the guy next to them dies.

Yeah, we had, we've got a lad in the gym who goes to Vegas and does all like the ultra marathons and stuff like that. Like he's run every day for like 1,400 days or something crazy like that. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

He does like 10, 15, 20 miles a day.

Well, Ferguson was training with Goggins when, you know, he fought you.

Yeah.

And I was like, that's probably not the best move. Because the problem is like Goggins is going to break you every day. And I don't know if you should be broken every day and then have a fight.

No, I said that myself in the buildup to that fight that he's probably going to be a bit fatigued.

Right.

And you don't want that going into a fight.

Tony had insane endurance. When he was in his prime, all right, Tony Ferguson, it's the, one of the biggest tragedies in the history of the sport was him tripping over wires.

Yeah.

Backstage, he was doing an interview, I think it was ESPN, blows his fucking knee out. Just tripped over some wires. It is so crazy because before that, Tony was the boogeyman.

Yeah.

He was fucking up everybody.

I think someone really did fuck him up though was himself when he just done that wake up on four weeks before he 4 kg.

Why did he do a wake up for himself?

Because the days he was meant to fight got canceled.

Ah.

And he just said, I'm going to do the wake up anyway and could wait to 55.

Why would he do that?

And then a couple of weeks later, that kid's Ferguson fight got announced. And it was like five or six weeks after he'd just done a wake up. So we had to do the wake up again to fight.

You think that fucked him up?

I think it's the person like doing two wake ups in six weeks when you're, I couldn't do two wake ups in six weeks. Couldn't do it.

It's that bad.

It's not, I don't feel like it's that bad.

But Tony's not cutting as much weight as you.

No, I don't feel like the worst thing for me to make weight is the eight weeks of diet and leading up to 10 weeks of diet. I don't care. Getting in a bath, getting in a bath and sweating the sand. That's all up here.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's the eight weeks leading up to it where you can't even go and see your mates because you can't be with the bar eating something.

Right.

Like my kids.

So you're starting eight weeks out.

Yeah, 10 weeks sometimes.

But don't you think that's because you like to eat so much?

I do. I think the 10 week sacrifice is worth it.

It's worth it.

To be able to do what I want. You know what I mean?

I was actually reading something. See if you can find this article, Jamie. It was that a bath is actually better for you than a sauna.

Yeah.

Because the water doesn't have anywhere to go.

Yeah.

I was just reading that. So all you folks out here have been hearing me talking about the benefits of sauna and you're like, fuck you, I don't have a sauna. If you have a bath, that's better.

I've been doing hot baths now for 12 years or something.

Makes sense. You know what's really good? Hot baths with Epsom salts.

That's what we do when you want to get more out of you. That's what we do.

Magnesium too. It's one of the best ways your body absorbs magnesium.

Like we don't even, I don't even really use the sweet sweats anymore.

No?

Don't need to.

Especially in a bath.

Yeah.

It doesn't make any sense.

Don't need to use the sweet sweats. Just sweat anyway. I can do easily like 14, 15 pounds in a bath.

Wow.

Easy.

That's crazy. Does that ever fuck your kidneys up or do you ever feel like, what do you feel like when you're actually on the scale?

When it, now I do it, we do it that professionally, not at. Sand.

Really?

Back in the day when I was fighting for the KJ's Featherweight title, when I fought for it, when I defended it. Some of the worst wake ups I've ever done.

At 45, what did you walk around back then?

Well, when I fought Julian Arosa, I can remember I was, it's quite funny actually. I was in a cave four weeks before it.

A cave?

A rave. A rave in a cave. And I was in there boozed, drink, eating crisp and stuff like that on the aisle. And one of my mates rang me. There was a KJ's on. And he's like, lad, they've just announced your next fight. I'm like, have they? He's like, yeah, you're fighting that Julian Arosa after the ultimate fight. I'm like, am I?

Were you fucked up?

Yeah. Just pissed as a fart. You know what I mean? And he like, am I? Yeah. Like I had to get in the gym that Monday and I had what, like 25, 26 days to make weight. And I think I was 87 kg and I had to be 65.8. So I had like 21 kg to lose.

Wow.

In less than four weeks.

So for people at home, what is that? 49 pounds? What is that?

Something like that, yeah.

And in the end.

What is it?

How many kilos? 22 kilos?

Yeah, 21 kilos it was. Because I was like 80.

45 pounds?

I was like 87 kg. And I had to be 65.8 to make weight.

So what do you do? How do you start that?

That one was just like, that one was bad. That one was like 1,500 calories a day or something. Just struggling to get through workouts.

Doesn't that fuck with your workouts bad though?

Yeah, it did. That's why in the end, like I had, that fight I had, like I literally, that one I cut 8.4 kg overnight, which is 17, 18 pounds.

The night?

The night before and the day of. And that was, I've never felt that bad. Oh, maybe the next one as well, the next wake up, but that one was bad. That was when I fought Arosa. And I won that fight, but I think that was before the, you know, the judging criteria got changed. And I think if it was the new judging criteria, I think I would have lost that fight. I think Arosa would have won.

What was the difference in the criteria in that? Because I never saw that fight.

It was more like on wrestling. It was more like control wrestling. And I had gassed after round three, four and five. I was just surviving. You know what I mean? But I ran at him in like the first, the second round, I think it was, and he dropped me. But I went down, but I grabbed his leg and took him down. You know what I mean? So I ended up winning that round. Where if you use this criteria now, I think he would have won that round.

Right.

You know what I mean?

It's a damage.

I've said that to him when I've trained in his gym and stuff. I've said to him, like, I reckon you would have won that fight if it was like the new criteria. And obviously it was probably, it wasn't home soil for me, but it was London. You know what I mean? It was the UK.

Right.

But I think I'd say that's a close of like, just as close as the Jared Gordon fight. You know what I mean? If you did go back and watch it.

Yeah.

If you went off the criteria, now I reckon Arosa would have beat me because I gassed after three. I was like that for four and five. I reckon he definitely won four and five. But it was me take downs what won me that fight.

The Jared Gordon fight was close. It was close. I thought Jared won that fight.

No, now most people thought Jared won that fight, lad.

It was close.

You know what I mean?

And it's interesting, like you look at your career afterwards and his career afterwards, how one fight changes so much.

Yeah.

You know? There's been times in history where there's been questionable decisions where you just go, wow, what would have been?

Like a lot of people have got them on the record, haven't they? Like people always mention Tebow and Khabib.

Yes.

A lot of people thought Tebow won that fight.

I thought he won that fight too.

You know what I mean?

I rewatched it too. I mean, not by a lot, but I thought, you know, I thought a decision is rightful.

Yeah.

But you know the big one? Dominic Reyes. Dominic Reyes and Jon Jones.

That's the big one.

That's the big one. I've watched that a few times.

Yeah, I think he won that fight.

I think Dominic won that fight.

Yeah.

I think he won that fight.

Yeah.

And Jon's greatest of all time.

Yeah.

But I've watched that fight. I was like, I think Dominic won that fight.

And it changes if Dominic went on like a four fight losing suit after that.

I know.

It literally altered his career.

Crazy. Yeah. But I think he's back now. You know, he's a very resilient fighter.

Yeah, that knockout he got the other week was brilliant.

Brilliant.

I'm watching now. It was a lovely finish.

Brilliant. And Mirza Konov is a fucking beast.

Yeah.

You know, that guy's no joke.

No, I think it, no, I think it'd be a great fight. Reyes and Paolo Costa.

Oh, fuck yeah.

That'd be a scrap.

That's a good one.

Yeah.

That's a real good one.

Be a scrap, lad.

Paolo Costa's a fucking beast at 205.

I don't know the fuck he made 185 to begin with.

I know. He's a guy. Him and Yoel. Yoel's the most confusing one.

Yeah.

I'd stand next to Yoel Romero. I'm like, how? How are you? Because I would be standing there next to him weighing 200 pounds. And I was like, how have you ever been 185 pounds? That doesn't make any sense.

I know.

You're so thick.

And he's like a brig. You know what I mean? He's just solid.

Robert Whitaker said that he kicked him. He says, he goes, it's like I'm hitting steel. He said, I was the only guy that have ever hit a guy with a calf kick and came out second best. He goes, it hurt my leg when I calf kicked him. This fucking nuts, man.

He was like a boogeyman as well when he got on the middle.

Yeah.

He's like a boogeyman.

And we didn't even get him into MMA until he was in those late 30s.

Yeah.

I think his first MMA fight, I think he was 35 or 36.

Still won't let the other bare knuckle boxer match with fucking Dan Tilly, the way he fought.

I thought he won.

A lot of people, I'll be honest, I don't really watch bare knuckles, so I didn't watch it. I can't say who won.

I thought he won.

I've seen a lot of people saying he thought he won as well, but as I said, I don't really watch bare knuckle boxing so I couldn't really say.

He's 50. What the fuck, man? He's 50 and shredded. Looks amazing. And has endurance, still explosive, still moves great. It's like defying time. He's like aging at half speed. It's nuts, man. Because even if he came back to the UFC, he's a fucking nightmare for 80% of the roster at 185 pounds.

No, he is definitely.

So nightmare.

185, he's never making that 205.

Not anymore. Not anymore. But even at 205, he's a fucking nightmare. Even when he fought Izzy, like he realized that like Izzy likes you to come after him and he likes to counter.

Yeah.

So he just stood in front.

He was a round away from winning that fight.

Yes.

You know what I mean? That's me a round away from winning that fight.

He's going to wrestle Bo Nickel.

Oh, he's going to wrestle Bo Nickel.

RAF 16. All right, I have a thought on this. I don't think it's wise. I like that RAF is doing this. I love it. I love RAF. However, when you got a guy like Bo Nickel who is right now one of the top contenders in the middleweight division and you're wrestling, there is a real possibility that you could blow a knee out. 100%.

I wouldn't do anything like that.

Fuck that. I see these guys doing that. I'm like, I understand you're going to pick up some money. I understand it's great. I understand you represent your sport. Freak weird things happen.

I'm an MMA fighter first and foremost, so I'm not going to go and do some grappling thing or some wrestling thing or anything like that.

Cub Swanson did that.

Yeah.

He did a grappling match, blew out his ACL.

That's what I mean. I just, I don't understand why people do it.

No, I don't understand why they do it either.

And it gives away party a game.

It does a little bit. Yeah.

It gives away party a game, lad.

Right.

You won't be on a surprise people with. I just wouldn't go and do anything like that.

Yeah.

That's just, I'm a fighter at the end of the day. I want to be an MMA fighter. I want to be UFC champion, so I'm not going to go and do all this shit.

I can understand.

It's good for their heads like Harman.

Yeah.

You need the publicity because no one likes him. You know what I mean? It's good for people like that.

You don't think people like him?

No, he's a wanker.

I like him. I'm sorry.

I do.

Little daddy's boy, lad. He is a very odd situation. I'll tell you that. It's very odd that a guy is the child of a rich man. Grew up wealthy. He's wealthy as fuck right now.

Yeah, I know what I mean.

Does not have to fight for the rest of his life and still is world-class. You got to give him that.

No, he's just not good to fight.

He's not good to fight.

He's world-class.

I didn't think he looked good in that fight though. He knocked him out in the first round.

I couldn't take him down.

Well, Hoofy had been training with Volkanovski.

No, I know.

And I think he really tightened up his takedown defense.

Hoofy's got so much better since he started training with Volkanovski.

Yeah.

And his last fight before that was BSD.

Right.

But like BSD absolutely mauled him on the ground and then Harman couldn't take him down.

It's true. But I think he got better. I think the.

He definitely got better, lad.

BSD fight opened his eyes.

It was like he beat Fizzy F, then he beat Chandler, and then he fought Harman. You know what I mean?

Yep.

But.

The Chandler fight, I kind of, that was the one fight where on the White House card, I was like, this one's a tough one. This is tough for Michael. I just don't see how he gets close to him.

I think he doesn't need to use his wrestling against Roofy.

Yeah.

I think anyone does need to use the wrestling, really. I think Roofy's got some of the best striking in the division.

Very good striking and very long.

Yeah.

Very tall, very slick.

I'm about the same size as Roofy, I think. You know what I mean?

He seems like he's a little taller than you, is he?

It might be a little inch taller, but I'm wider.

He fights long.

Yeah.

He fights very long.

I think he's boss to watch. I love watching Roofy fight.

Yeah.

I think he's great to watch.

I love watching him fight. But the BSD fight exposed a level of his grappling was at a level that it's going to take an incredible amount of work to get to the top guys.

Yeah.

Guys like you. He's so far off. If a guy like BSD can dominate him that badly on the ground, it's like, boy, that's tough. Because he got dominated.

Yeah.

It wasn't like competitive grappling exchanges where, you know, he got on top sometimes, but BSD got on top more. It was BSD mauling.

Yeah.

That's a problem. Because when someone sees that, they're like, oh.

Let's replicate that and that's how you beat.

Especially a guy who's an elite guy like yourself, or a guy who's a really good grappler.

But after that, when you watch that, you're thinking, I'm going to do that to him.

Right.

I'm going to take him down and I'm going to.

The question I always get is like, how much better can you get? You're 34 or 32 years old and you're going to fight world-class guys for the next couple of years. How much better can you get at grappling? Because you need to get a lot better. So it's a real tricky situation when something like that gets exposed. Because if you're in there with a guy who can take you down, who's an elite grappler, like he's always going to know that that pathway exists.

Yes.

You don't have the skill, or at least didn't at the time, have the skills to stop that. And how much skills can you acquire over the next couple of years?

I think you can always get better.

For sure.

You know what I mean? You can always get better.

100%.

100%.

But how much better can you get? Like a good example for me is like Jon Jones and Cyril Gahn, right? Jon Jones takes Cyril Gahn down like that.

Yeah.

Submits him first round, you know, and it was like, wow. Like can Cyril ever get to a point where Jon Jones can't take him down?

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like if he has to fight again, like if Jon decides to come back and Jon, so let's say Cyril beats Hookett this weekend and then Jon says, fuck it, one more time. You know, wheel out the Brinks truck. You want to sell some pay-per-views at heavyweight? I'm the fucking man.

Yeah.

Because that is true, right?

Yeah, it is like.

If Jon decides to come back and say, I want one more, they got to give him a world title fight. You do it with him and Cyril Gahn. And Cyril Gahn knows, just a few years ago, was it 2023 they fought, I think?

Yeah.

Three years ago, Jon took him down like that, submitted him like that. So it's like, how much better can you get in three years where that guy can't do that to you? Because the way he did it to him was like, you know, he's just that much better.

Yeah, that was like taking Candy from a baby, as they say.

Just got him.

That was just easy.

Just got him immediately. Sinched him down. Full control. Got his neck. That's a wrap. I mean, it was so cool.

He thought Siddal Tapkay quick as well, to be honest.

What's that?

He thought Siddal Tapkay quick.

I think it hurt like a motherfucker.

Yeah.

You know? It was a front choke, right? Didn't Jon have the head trap?

Yeah, he was like stood over him, wasn't he? And I'd like.

His fucking with all the leverage of Jon's length and his skills. Like when remember when he did that to Leota Machida? Here it is, right here.

Yeah, it's like here.

So he got him down, got on top of him. As soon as he sunk it in, and Jon's left-handed too. He gets that left arm on that chin. He's just head cranking the fuck out of him.

It doesn't even look like it's under the chin yet there.

Oh, he's just head cranking him. He's head cranking him. I mean, it's just right now, this is nasty. His whole head is sideways. Jon's just so fucking strong. He's so strong, like weirdly strong. You know, it's just years of grappling and there it is. There it is. I mean, bro, that is nasty. That is so nasty.

Like he's finishing faster than I thought.

I don't think so. I think that was a wrap, son. Look at, look where his head's trapped.

Like that's just the thing with me. I'm going out there.

Yeah, I get it.

I'm going unconscious.

I get it.

I'm not. Especially in a whale title fight.

And he's everybody shush.

I'm going unconscious there, like definitely.

So like there's moments where you look at it, like this is one of the things that makes it interesting. I was just talking to a friend of mine who I respect a lot. I won't say his name until after the fight. He says, I think Josh Hookett's going to win this weekend. I was like, really? Really? You really that confident? Because for me, it's like, boy, I think Cyril Gahn is one of the biggest puzzles in the heavyweight division.

Yeah. I think it's bad for the sport if Josh Hookett wins. I think it's bad.

Do you feel it?

It's bad. Bad for the sport if Josh Hookett wins, lad.

Really?

I think he's a crazy wanker.

Is he at least playing crazy?

I don't know if he is crazy.

I just hate, like as you know, I hate Colby Colvinson. I hate the acting. I hate the trying to be something, you know? Just be yourself. Why are you putting this act on? And it just pisses me off, lad. But it's the same thing, sort of that Money Moy Kano does.

But he's still himself.

Talking shit. He's still himself.

He's still himself. He's not being like, he's not like trying to be nothing. He's not. That's just him. He's a funny person anyway.

Right.

Like he's not, like when Hookett's doing all that stupid.

Oh, right, right, right.

I mean, like he's pretending to be sick on himself and stuff like that.

Right, right, right.

You know what I mean? And like everything I've ever heard about Colby Colvinson is behind the scenes. He's one of the nicest men.

He's a nice guy.

That's it.

I've hung out with him at the comedy story.

That's what I mean.

I've heard he's one of the nicest fellas about. So when he's the way he is on camera, it's like, what are you doing? You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I get it. But it's also Colby was about to get cut and he fought Damian Maya in Brazil and they were going to cut him. The UFC has an issue with guys who win but are not exciting. If you don't get the fan stirred up, and they will cut you. And I'm against it. I am a purist.

No, I didn't agree with him.

Free Bash Raskettin.

I did not agree with that at all.

I didn't agree with him getting caught as all. I say if you think he's boring, and I don't think he's boring. I think he's very skillful. I like watching him fight. Just because a guy's not finishing fights, look at Eve Louwev just fought for the title.

Eve Louwev.

He never finished anybody. But still, I love watching him fight.

Yeah.

You know, Eve Louwev is a fucking elite fighter, man. You watch him fight. It's very interesting. I think what he did with Lerone was incredibly impressive.

Yeah.

Because he did it on the feet as well. He beat him on the feet and then the grappling is elite.

I don't know the face a lot of people are calling Robinny though.

The Eve Louwev-Lerone Murphy fight?

Yeah.

Really? What did they think?

Because he told us it was 3-2, everyone said everyone said there should have been a lot of media things I've seen said there should have been a draw.

Interesting. I'll go have to go back and watch it again. But my point was he's not finishing anybody. He didn't finish anyone.

Yeah.

And yet he still got a title fight. And you know, Bash Raskettin is winning. He's undefeated.

Yeah, he was 7-0 in the UFC, wasn't he?

Yes.

I think he was 7-0.

Yes. And like for whatever, like I don't like the pressure that gets put on people to fight outside of their technique and skill. And to just like bite down your mouthpiece and throw.

Yeah.

Like I think that's crazy. I think you should fight the best way you know how to fight. And hopefully it's really exciting.

Yeah.

But it's going to be exciting anyway. And if you don't think he's exciting, put him in there with someone who is exciting.

Yeah.

Who's a fucking madman who's going to force him to fight a certain way. But until he loses, cutting someone I think is crazy.

It's just that that time, no? Like a lot of people, I remember a lot of people saying GSP was boring when I was watching. You know what I mean?

Right.

I remember a lot of people. Madness.

Casuals.

Yeah.

Casuals.

People saying GSP was boring.

Insane. How?

His fight IQ was off the charts and he beat people.

Well, here's an example that those wrestlers hate. He didn't wrestle in high school.

Yeah.

He didn't wrestle in college. Best wrestler in MMA.

Yeah.

They hate that shit. They always want to say, Division One. Division One All-American. Like settle down. This fucking Canadian guy who speaks French is just fucking everybody up.

Just double-legging people with shits and giggles.

Bro, it's really funny when I bring him around people that don't know who he is. They have no idea who he is. They never guess. They never guess. He was hanging out at the mothership. He's got like a golf shirt on. He's super friendly to everybody. And I said to this friend of mine, I go, do you know who that is? And they go, no. I go, that's one of the baddest cage fighters that's ever walked the face of the earth. He was like, no way. I go, yeah, that's George St. Pierre. He's like, what?

I remember he was out of cage where he was one time in Manchester. And I spoke to him there. He's one of the nicest men ever. Like he's so like polite and like quiet and respectful. You know what I mean?

You would never imagine.

No.

That he was such a ferocious fighter.

You wouldn't at all.

He was another guy with a switch. He had a switch. You would see him get inside the cage and he would just switch over.

Yeah.

You would see he just get locked in and focused and switched. And you know, he had such a great team too. Firas Zahabi and Jon Donohere, two of the greatest minds in combat sports ever together working with him. You know? And Firas would pay people to try to knock him out. He would. He would tell sparring partners, I'll give you more money if you can knock him out. Because he just wanted George to be fighting in like chaotic situations. You know, he wanted him to be like very comfortable with like wild chaos.

Yeah.

You know?

It does outplay. You know what I mean? Because not on combat pay you have to fight like a fight.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Not like a fight. Yeah. I mean, especially if you're, you know, at that level where it's like the difference between victory and defeat, it's just like small moments in a fight that can shift the tide.

Yeah.

And turn the way things go. It's like, boy, you need to be 100% prepared. So you need the right people watching you every step of the way.

Yeah.

Like real trainers. Which is one of the things I think is like pros and cons of these big giant gyms. You know, the pros are.

I think, yeah, for me, the pros of a giant gym is you have unlimited sparring partners. You've got so many different styles. Wherever you're fighting, you've got someone to spar with. But for me, the cons are, you aren't like a team. I don't feel like any of them are a team.

No.

You see it on the UFC now. Like, oh, these both train at the same gym.

Right.

I'm like, what?

Right.

You'd never see me catching me fighting any of my teammates. I consider them family. They're all like me brothers. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean.

But like we look after each other. You wouldn't ever see me fighting like George Stames or Luke Riley or Adam Cullen or anyone like that. It just wouldn't happen. Never happen. Like as I've said it through the week, perfect scenario for me would be, I end up winning the lightweight belt. I can defend it a few times. George comes through the ranks. I can vacate the belt and let him fight for it and move up to welterweight. That's dreamland. Like don't get me wrong, but that would be perfect because I'm never going to fight him. You know what I mean?

Mm.

We spar in the gym twice a week.

Yeah.

I'm with him every day. We train together. I wind him up every day. You know what I mean? So like just to think like I'd get in there and fight him or like even Luke, who's been training with like seven, eight years, it's not happening. You know what I mean? You couldn't give me an unlimited amount of money to do that.

Yeah, that was a big thing with Rashad. With Rashad and Jon Jones.

Jon Jones, yeah.

Because they trained together and they were friends.

Yeah.

And then when Jon had to step in for Rashad and fight Shogun and won the title, and then all of a sudden it became they would fight each other. And it became a giant issue. Because like Rashad was like, I thought we were never going to fight each other.

Yeah.

Like I thought we were friends.

That's mad.

Yeah.

Like I just, I couldn't even contemplate that. That would never happen in our gym. No one in our gym would ever fight someone else in the gym. But in them big super gyms in America.

Yeah.

Two people who train under the same roof. They might go in at different times and all stuff like that. But they train in the same place. They've got like the same coaches and they're going to fight each other. That just blows my mind, lad. That's just crazy shit.

I could see it both ways. Some guys agree it's okay. This is a business and we both have a dream and we just, we're both going to just have to fight and we'll be friends afterwards. I could see that. Some guys, that's their attitude. But I also see your attitude and I love that. I love the camaraderie that you get from sweating with people every day, training with people, and knowing that they have your back.

Yeah.

Like knowing that if they have a heel hook, they're not going to yank on it. Knowing if they have a head kick, they're going to pull it. You know what I mean? Like there's things, you do things for each other in the gym for friends too. Like you don't hurt each other on purpose.

Yeah.

Shit happens, but you pull things. You take care of each other. You want to be able to train again tomorrow.

Exactly.

And you also, you go through things where you're helping each other in the corner. You're pumping people up for the fight. You love them. They're like brothers. To fight that kind of a person, someone who's that close to you, it's like fighting an actual brother. And I can't imagine that.

I spend more time in the gym with them people than my actual brother. And like my mates by age who I've grew up with who I consider brothers.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So for someone to say, you want to go in there and fight him and try and knock him out, you're trying to knock, nah.

It's also, you know each other like no one knows each other.

Yeah.

Because.

You know each other inside out because you've done that many hours of training together.

Yeah. If you train with someone, you know them. You know? You just, you get it.

I just say that just blows my mind. People who train in the same gym fighting each other. I just think it's, I think it's wrong personally. I just.

I get it.

The way MMA is. There's only, a lot of people just think, oh, there's only a certain few gyms you can go to.

Mm-hmm.

Where I'm still training in the same gym as I walked into when I was 15 years old. I haven't ever trained anywhere else with anyone else. I've went and done little bits of training here and there, like little when I've been in other countries and stuff, but I've never had a different head coach.

Wow.

I've always been Paul Rimmett and I've always had Ella Samson who was my teammate, but he's now my coach. You know what I mean? I've never had any other coaches.

Yeah. Well, that's awesome. I think that's great. Especially since it's working out. Unfortunately for some people, it's not working out and they're in a situation where they do have to make a change because maybe the coaching staff can't handle their talent.

Yeah.

But when people are together day in and day out like that, it develops a bond, a closeness that very few people understand. You really know them. Crone Gracie had a very wise statement once. We were talking about something and he was talking about some guy. He says, I reserve my judgment on who a man is until I roll with him. I was like, that's smart. Because like there's no bullshit. There's no bullshit in rolling.

Yeah, totally.

You know what I'm saying? That's a very wise thing.

Yeah.

You know? Because you know, like you hear people talk like, that's full shit. I don't know. Who knows? Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm being paranoid.

You know when you get on the mat if someone's bullshitting on us, don't you?

Exactly.

You do?

Yeah. You do 100%. And you know each other. You know what each other's are capable of. That's why when you have a gym like Khabib's gym, where you have this one guy who is such a dominant force of discipline and will, who's like the head guy. And it's like he sort of forces this ethic throughout the entire gym. Because you know, your head guy is like one of the greatest of all time.

Yeah.

Who's this fucking complete discipline maniac. You know what I mean? And like the whole gym sort of falls into that line. I mean, it's not a coincidence that so many elite guys are coming out of that gym.

No, it's not like.

But they're not fighting each other either.

No. That's what I mean.

Yeah. Same thing.

I just, and they've got some of the best fighters in the world who are at some of the top of the divisions in the world.

Have the UFC signed Usman? Have they signed Usman Nurmagomedov?

I don't think so.

I know they're in talks. God, I hope they sign him.

It's just whether the other, what are they called? PFL. Give him more money, you know?

I think he's free.

Oh, he had a three-month period, wasn't he?

Is that what it is?

I see he signed today.

He signed with the UFC today?

Let me confirm.

Okay, confirm.

See, there's another lightweight.

There's another lightweight. And he is the one guy that was outside of the UFC. I said this guy's world championship caliber. He's world championship caliber. So it's like you and him and Arman and Charles. Fuck, Charles looked good against Max. He shut Max down.

Yeah, he did.

I was stunned.

I didn't see that common person.

I was stunned. I mean, I thought it was going to be a real good fight. I thought.

I think him and Lopez is going to be a good fight.

Oh, sure.

I really like Diego Lopez. Like he's boss.

He's an animal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's one of the nicest dudes ever.

Super nice guy.

Yeah.

Iron chin. His chin looks like you could hit him with a bat. You know what I'm saying? Like his chin, he's got a giga chin. He's got a giga chin. His chin is like fucking, fucking hit me.

You can take a shot. Like you can take a shot.

Like nobody's business.

But I can, I think Charles is probably going to do the same thing as what he did to Max.

Perhaps. But Diego's really good on the ground.

Yeah.

He almost submitted Evil Web a couple of times. Remember?

Scrambling's great. Like he scrambles our positions, but.

Scrambling, conditioning, strength. And I think he's also a very big 145 who's really belonged at 55 for a while.

Charles will be bigger than him, no warning.

Yeah. Yeah, Charles will be bigger. But Charles started at 45 as well. But Charles against Max, bro, he would get into that clinch and I was like, Max is fucked here. Like it doesn't seem like he could do anything to him.

He was just ragged on him, wasn't he?

Ragged on him.

He was just getting him and Max couldn't do nothing.

It's surprising. I was very shocked.

That's true.

No one's ever done that to Max.

Max is well like, is Max just sitting out waiting for Connor?

I don't know.

Because he's rank fourth. You know what I mean?

Right. This time in his career, he might want to do that. You know? He probably only has a few more left in him and the Connor one is obviously a huge money fight.

Someone he fights in.

Do you see Connor's bare knuckle fight thing he did the other day in Glasgow?

No.

So he, they had a bare knuckle fight in Scotland.

I was going to say that he wants to fight bare knuckle.

Well, he just hammered at the press conference. Hammered.

Fucking crazy shit. I hit you with these hammers. He's just fucking going nuts. He was cracking open a Guinness or whatever he has. Whatever his forge stuff thing.

Yeah. I don't know what he was drinking, but he was drinking. And he was just getting crazy and just talking mad shit. That was beer, right?

No, that's beer.

It's like Guinness. I don't think it was an energy drink.

Guinness isn't beer, is it?

It isn't?

No, it's called something else.

Stout?

Yeah, stout.

Yeah.

Yeah, he wasn't drinking Guinness. He'd be drinking his own.

He was drinking his own, right?

Yeah.

Look at him. Look at him.

Yeah, look at him.

Give me put the headphones on. Let me hear some of this, Jimmy. Give me some. Give me some of this.

Well, if you're a world caliber fighter. You've got one more fight.

Look at his eyes.

UFC, who would you like to have that with?

It has to be Holloway. It has to be just do the fucking thing again. Just do the thing again. The guy didn't engage once. He's the one that called for a stoppage of the fight. What if when he said, "Ref, ref, ref," he's stopping the fight. So imagine I'd have just said, "Yes, yay." And jumped the fence. I won. He doesn't want to fucking fight. Or I don't know about me fucking on the one leg. He wasn't coming near me. It was just so shocking and so heartbreaking to me. I'm still fucking dealing with it. But it has to be Holloway. Come on, just fucking dust it off, read the way.

He looks big there as well, don't he?

Yeah.

Now, Holloway might be a jackass. Something might happen. I don't know. But a fighter that fights me puts some respect on my name. If you're not a world champion fighter, if you've not got world accolades to your name, don't even utter my fucking name. Because if you're a national champion, if you're a fucking regional champion, if you've done fuck up, got a few likes, go fuck yourself. Don't mention my fucking name unless you're a world caliber fighter.

Ah, well, listen, man. It is prime.

Fucking shit.

It is prime. When you talk about like the Eddie Alvarez fight in particular, when he was in the Matrix, it was one of the greatest performances.

I think he would have beat anyone, not nice. Anyone.

He was on fire. It was just so many factors that have led to his slide. And I think the big one was that fight with Floyd Mayweather.

I don't think he ever should have done that.

Well.

Obviously.

It made a hundred million dollars.

Yeah, it made a lot of money, but what is it? It was Marvin like literally said, it's hard to get out of bed when you're wearing the silk pajamas.

Yeah, it is, but you can still do it. Floyd did it.

Yeah.

Floyd would still get out of bed with silk pajamas.

He always had that suitado, didn't he?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he blows all his money though.

That's what I mean. He runs out of his money and it's like, shit, he needs to fight again.

Oh, he's going to fight again now. They're talking about him fighting Ryan Garcia, which is crazy.

Yeah, that is crazy.

I think that's crazy. He's 50 years old. I mean, as good as Floyd is, boy, if he could somehow or another even be competitive with Ryan Garcia.

Hey, shit, isn't Manny Pacquiao meant to be fighting someone again now as well?

Yeah. Bro, man, he's still fighting. Yeah. I mean.

See, that's, isn't it funny? He was like the president of the Philippines or something.

He was in the Congress or something.

What was he?

Over there.

Like a senator or something like that?

Something big. Yeah.

Senator.

Senator.

Like, yeah.