Transcript of #2476 - Shanna H. Swan

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

Great to see you again.

Great to see you, Joe. Happy to be here.

Happy to have you here. So you've got a documentary about the, uh, essentially about the same subject that you talked about last time you were here, the impact of microplastics and all these various endocrine-disrupting chemicals that we're dealing with.

Right.

Right?

Right.

So tell me about it.

Ugh, well, it started as a movie on plastic. And when I met Louie and he filmed me in New York about five years ago also, um, it wasn't the small study that we have today. Um, but let me backtrack, 'cause I want to tell you something.

Okay.

That I never told you, but was so important to me.

Okay.

So you remember when I was here, you said, "Are you saying the toxins in the environment are threatening the survival of the human race?"

Right.

And I said, "That's my story, and I'm sticking to it."

Yes.

Yes? And then you said something which changed my life. You said, "Why don't people know about this?" Remember that?

Yes.

I went home and I thought a lot about that question. And that was what led me to create the program that I have now, Action Science Initiative, which is doing short, impactful, relatively cheap interventions to alert people to the problem and communicating this in a way that I'm hoping will reach more people than academia where I was speaking before.

Mm-hmm.

Because before I talked to you, I talked to my peers in, you know, academia and in the ivory tower, you know, at the meetings where they all went at the, they read the papers that we all read, but the general public didn't get this. So you really were, I have to tell you, thank you, and you were actually very influential in my life.

Well, I'm, I'm very happy to help. When I first heard about your book and I started going over the, the details of it and the subject matter, I was shocked. I, I, I, I couldn't imagine that something like this could not just have happened, but there's no large-scale effort to reverse course or to change course or to do something about it, or at least to make people aware of the impact that plastics are having on us. Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine. Um, there's a, a guy named Philip Franklin Lee, who is a, uh, Michelin star chef that, uh, lives in Austin, and, um, he has, uh, this, uh, amazing sushi restaurant, Sushi by Scratch, and great chef.

Mm-hmm.

But then got his microplastics tested, and they were off the charts. Um, did a series of interventions to try to clean his body out from that, um, stopped drinking anything out of plastic, stopped using plastic. Just by whatever he did, I'm not sure if he did the plasmapheresis thing that I just did recently.

Yeah.

Um, his testosterone went up to 1,200 with no testosterone replacement, no nothing. Just eliminating microplastics from his life over a period of time raises testosterone.

So that's fantastic, and it's what we are seeing in, in the film and so on. I want to just make a, a small point, which is microplastics and plastics and plasticizers are not identical, right?

Okay.

Right? So, um, microplastics are a relatively newcomer to the scene, of course, we've had plastics since 1950, right? Microplastics have been there but not recognized until re-relatively recently. And actually, measuring them in, in our bodies is much harder than measuring the plasticizers, which are the chemicals that are put in plastic to give them the various properties that they have.

Phthalates.

Phthalates is one, bisphenol A is another, um, and so on. So there, there are other, you know and by the way, well, we'll come back to that later. Um, so yes, we can measure those, but measuring microplastics in particular, if we're going to go into your brain or into your testicles, you know, into a woman's placenta, obviously that's much more difficult. So, um, they're not the same, but the microplastics, what they are is the actual pieces of plastic that carry the plasticizers along with them.

Mm-hmm.

So they do double damage because they carry the chemical harms, and they also physically enter the cells, right? So do you remember, I'm sure you asbestos you know about.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and, um, silicosis, and these were other examples of particles that went into the body and conveyed both chemical harm and physical harm, like inflammation and so on and so forth. So they're all bad, but they're not identical. And, and what we studied in the Plastic Detox, which is the film, um, that was we did not study any microplastics. We studied the plasticizers.

Yeah, I remember.

And so they remember that, you know? So they go into your urine, and, and then they're pretty easy to measure. So I'm going to give this to you. This is a kit. Open it up. I don't tell you what it is.

Okay. Learn what's inside. All right. It looks like you pee in that?

Hmm.

Okay.

That's right. Keep going.

And there's more stuff in there?

Yeah.

Okay. Um, something to send it back?

Right.

And then this looks like biohazard bags.

To put your pee in.

Like pee doesn't kill anybody. And, and this is, uh, uh, it's got a QR code on it. Uh, say hello to a healthier you.

So those are ways to find out ways to lower your exposure.

Okay.

Yeah.

I know, um, a lot of people get these, uh, harmful chemicals from drinking coffee, hot liquids out of paper cups.

Yeah. From the paper cups that are lined with, for example, bisphenols. But the coffee itself is made in a most coffee makers contain a lot of plastic.

Right.

Also. So it comes in both the cups and in the, the device that's making the coffee.

That's why we use metal and just make a French press.

That's good.

I do that at home too.

Yeah.

I got rid of my plastic coffee machine.

Me too. Me too.

I was thinking about it. I was like, "Why am I pouring hot water into this plastic thing?"

Right. Yeah.

That can't be good. Yeah. It doesn't taste as good.

You're learning. You're learning.

French press tastes better anyway.

So here's my suggestion. If you're willing to do this.

I am willing to do this.

You are? Good. Cool.

Yes.

So not hard.

Okay.

Pee in the cup, send it in.

Got it.

Then my colleague Jenna Wah and her team will analyze it for not everything in the world, but the bisphenols, the, um, phthalates, and the parabens.

Okay.

That's what they're, they're going to be adding pesticides soon, and that would be great to have that as well.

Mm-hmm.

Um, then if you want to go to phase two, I can I have some things here that you could swap in your kitchen, and you could go to that QR code and find out other things that you could reduce. And then if you wanted to, we could send you another kit and you could see if your levels changed.

Okay.

You want to do that?

I would love to do that.

Yay.

What is phase two?

A phase two would mail you back another kit.

Uh-huh.

You take your urine again, and that's it.

And so that's to see if it's changed because of lifestyle changes.

That's right.

Right.

That's right. So you would be doing what the couples in part of what the couples in the intervention did. The couples in the intervention also were, were infertile. And so we're not going to touch your fertility question, but they also, the men collected sperm, and you we can do that if you want, but I don't think you, you know, you may not want to talk about that on your first ever. And but, um, that's what we did in the intervention. So we in the intervention, we found I'll just this is this is what the intervention was.

Got it.

So actually finding the couples that are in the film was a long process. They had to, of course, agree to be filmed. They had to have what we call terrible word, idiopathic infertility, no known causes. So they and they couldn't be obese, they couldn't be smokers, they couldn't have a diagnosis, a medical diagnosis that explains. We don't want it to be unexplained.

Got it.

Okay? So sort of we went down to what was six couples. One of them dropped out, um, for personal reasons. So I won't go into that. But, um, that's how we got those couples. They had to be couples, by the way. And they had to be staying together for the next three months and not doing IVF. Okay?

Okay.

So that's the that was the setup. And, and then the company called Million Marker that you're going to send your pee to, um, they have an education program. And that's a lot of what they do, the testing and the education. And so all of those couples, you know, they talked to them and said, "Tell me about what you put on your face this morning. Tell me what you washed your clothes with. Tell me what you clean your counters with," and on and on and on like that, right?

Mm-hmm.

So they took an inventory of what the couples were doing. And then they started this educational program, which they're very good at and have been doing for a while. Once a week, they talk to them. "So how's it going? Have you changed this? What are what are you using now?" and so on. So it was not just a one-time thing. Um, and if you were doing this, it would be short, you know, just like use these things maybe. Um, but along with that, we sent them the Fellow kits to collect their semen.

Why?

Takes 70 days to make a sperm.

Hmm.

So we wanted to have a turnover within the course of the intervention. Yeah. So, so they we sent them a kit and they collected their semen at home, which is nice for guys because you don't have to go into lab and do it there. And, you know, it's, it's much better at home, right?

Yeah.

And they sent it in and they figured out how to get all the parameters right, even though it's mailed. And, um, yeah, so the couples did that. So we had over time levels in their body of the chemicals, semen quality, what they were doing to what they changed in their life, because we had this record of everything they changed. And then finally, we saw who got pregnant. And I hope your listeners will watch The Plastic Detox.

Can I ask you about the coffee question? When you go to a place like, let's just say Starbucks, not to single them out, but.

Yeah.

Are they using plastic with their coffee machines? Are their coffee machines made with plastic?

I, I don't I don't know about any particular place except my kitchen.

I was just.

Yeah.

The question.

I suspect that they are using plastic.

Right.

Yeah.

So if people stop at a place like that on a regular basis on their way to work in the morning to get coffee, and they use they bring their own plastic or excuse me, they, they bring their own stainless steel thermos or mug, that would eliminate some of it, but perhaps.

One source. Yeah.

Yeah. But perhaps they're getting it actually from the coffee machine itself. Because I see when they slide those.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

When you see these big industrial machines.

Yeah.

And they slide those filters in, those filters are plastic.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're, they're probably they probably have bisphenol in them. Yeah.

Right. It's a plastic tray.

Right.

It seem it seems like.

Right.

I don't know.

Yeah.

But then there's a paper filter in the plastic tray and.

Right.

So you're getting it no matter what.

And, and if they use those pods.

Uh-huh.

You know.

Yeah.

At home. Bruno, one of our guys in the film, wonderful guy. He, he was a kind of addicted to his coffee machine, his pods.

Right. The pods.

And we said, "Bruno, we want you to stop using those pods." "No, I don't want to stop using " But he did. He did. And, um, they've had two babies. Yeah. Now, I'm not, not saying that's the reason, but, you know, it's a contribution probably.

Well, there is certainly an issue.

Yeah.

Like I said with my friend Philip, that it made a radical difference in his sperm count.

Yeah.

And his testosterone levels. And so this is probably the case with so many Americans in this country that are dealing with infertility issues. A big part of it is probably these plasticizers. Is that how you.

Yeah.

Referred to them?

Yeah.

Plasticizers, all these various chemicals that are endocrine disruptors that are ubiquitous in the modern world.

Yes, unfortunately.

It's crazy.

And by the way, not the women. Let me just tell you something. We, we didn't talk about the women last time very much, right?

Right. A little bit we did.

Little.

Yeah. We, we, we I think we did.

So the women need testosterone too.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you know, for sexual arousal and libido and so on and, and muscle. And, um, and we in our, um, one of our study, study for future families, I think, or maybe yeah. Um, we asked we got the urine, we saw what they, you know, how much phthalates were in their urine. And then we asked them some questions about their sexual experience. So how satisfied were they with their sexual, sexual life, um, and frequency?

Completely makes sense.

Everyone needs testosterone.

Yeah. My wife's friend got on testosterone. She's, uh, I guess she's about 50. She got on testosterone because of her her doctor put her on some low-level cream or something like that. And her, her response was like, "It makes me horny like a bloke." She's English. I thought that was a very funny thing that she said it that way.

Did she think that was a good thing?

Yeah, she enjoyed it.

Yeah.

Apparently.

Yeah.

Allegedly. I didn't speak to her directly.

Right.

But I think that's what she was saying.

Right.

Like, "Whoa."

Right.

You know, just, "Whoa."

Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's the, the thing that came out of your, um, the episode that we did, um, that shocked me the most is how little this is discussed in the mainstream. And, uh, I had not known until you brought it up, until you became a, a guest on the show, until I started researching it. I was stunned. I, I couldn't believe that this was something that was so common. And so, so one of the things that comes up all the time is infertility with couples that are trying and they're using IVF, and it's more common now than ever before.

I thank you. You said it really well. Um, let me just give people a, um, a place to go. You go to unplasticyourlife.com. Okay?

Mm-hmm.

And then there's action and then you can go to the various places in your home that you can.

It's just unplasticyourlife.

Unplastic.

One word.

Unplastic.

Unplastic.

Unplastic.

Unplastic.

Unplasticyourlife.

Unplasticyourlife.

Unplasticyourlife.

Unplasticyourlife.

Yeah. Um, let me see if I got that. Yeah. So unplasticyourlife.com, go to Action Hub, and then to Protect Yourself.

Got it.

And that'll give you lots of things to do to lower these exposures.

Nonstick cookware.

Yeah.

Um, that stuff has.

That's different.

Is that different?

Yeah.

It was when you have nonstick cookware, does that have any endocrine disrupting chemicals as well?

Yes, but different ones.

Different ones?

Yeah.

Which ones are those?

So those are what's called the PFAS chemicals.

Mm-hmm.

And it's in actually not just cookware, it's anything that put puts a barrier between two media, if you will. Um, like a rain jacket will put a barrier between the rain and your skin.

Right.

Um, and, uh, also stain resistant. It'll barrier with the st the stain. Um, and it's very, very prevalent. I mean, it, it, it's all you're you know, it's in clothing, it's in.

I've read it's in a lot of yoga tights and things along those lines.

Yes. Yes. Workout clothes.

That's so crazy.

Yeah.

You think you're being healthy.

Yeah.

And you're exposing yourself to endocrine disrupting chemicals.

And uniforms. There's a book. I, I, I should probably shouldn't recommend another book, but I think it's a good book. I'll just say it's called To Die For, DYE.

Uh-huh.

And it's about the flight attendants' uniforms and the harms that they do because they're coated. They have a lot of PFAS because they, you know, have to keep clean and the and, and they've got they're not clean, right?

Right.

Because they have these.

Right.

PFAS in them. It's in sports uniforms.

Right.

You, you do well with sports. All the sports uniforms.

Nylon.

Yeah.

Yeah. Is it anything with nylon? Is that what it is?

No.

All nylon?

Probably, but I'm not sure. I'm not you know, I could refer you to somebody, but I'm not the clothing expert. But I know that they're in these things. And one of the things that is kind of scary, um, is school uniforms. You know, a lot of kids have.

Yes.

School uniforms and they're loaded with it.

Oh.

Yeah.

Yeah. My kids used to wear a uniform every day.

Yeah.

When you, uh, you say To Die For, are dyes in cotton clothes also releasing?

Yes.

Really?

Yes.

Whoa.

Dyes are dyes are very risky.

We got to go back to being Amish.

Yeah.

Here it is.

The byline from the book.

Oh, good. Yeah.

So it's the fact there's little or no regulation of clothes or textiles we wear each day, from uniforms to fast fashion, outdoor gear, and even the face masks that have become ubiquitous in recent years. Wicker explains how we got here, what the stakes are, what all of us can do in the fight for a safe and healthy wardrobe for all. Wow.

And that's in the film. It's discussed in the film.

Okay.

A little bit. Not the major, but it's, it's.

So blue jeans?

Probably.

Probably.

I can't, you know, speak about.

There is a river, uh, I believe it's in China, where, uh, a series of blue jean factories exist.

Oh.

Where the entire river is blue. It's so disgusting. Like, not blue like beautiful clean water.

Yeah, right, right.

Blue like dyed.

Dyed water.

Like dyed look at this. Look at that.

Oh.

That's the blue jean capital of the world.

Wow.

That's where they make a lot of blue jeans. And look at the stinky, dirty, disgusting blue dye water that is just that river leaking out into the ocean, which also looks polluted.

Yeah.

You want cheap clothes, kids? This is what happens. It's so crazy. Like, look at that stuff.

Yeah.

I mean, how many jeans are they making?

Hmm.

And what are the, you know.

And this is a good point for me to point out that these things are affecting animals, of course, like the animals.

Africa.

Fish in this.

Look at this. African rivers as well.

Yeah.

Gee. Of course, we do it in other places. If we did it in America, people would be aware.

Canada.

Canada too.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure they'd be aware.

You don't think so?

No.

We're trying.

We're trying.

We're trying to get them aware.

Yeah.

I mean, that's what we're doing right now, right?

Right. So to go back to that point you raised about, you know, reasons that people give for low testosterone or low fertility, low sperm count. And particularly this comes up for fertility. Couple more couples are you know the fertility is in the toilet, right?

Yes.

Yeah. That's a weird thing to say, but yeah, right.

For lack of a better.

Yeah. Um, and, um, I mean, used to be five children per couple on the average in 1960, and now it's in South Korea, it's like 0.88.

Wow.

That's the worst, you know.

Why is South Korea the worst?

I don't know. I mean, all of East Asia is very, very low.

South Korea's their replacement numbers are so low.

That's right.

That it's they're in danger of complete population collapse.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and Japan is getting there and, you know, all of that Southeast Asia. And, um, so when there's a lot of articles about this, a lot of editorials, a lot of articles, and they make me so Joe, they make me so mad because they say correctly that having a child at older age will do this to some extent, you know, not wanting to have a children, as many children will do this to some extent, but they never mention toxics.

Hmm.

They just and so I've written editorials saying, "Hey, guys, we're not alone on this planet, and we're not the only species that's declining in number." And then if you look at the curve of the number of species that are declining and the rate of decline of human fertility, they're parallel. It's all, all about 1% per year. And, and so they're and we know they're exposed, these other species. You showed it.

Mm-hmm.

There. Those fish in that water are exposed and, you know, animals on the periphery. So I would love for everybody, when they look at these numbers of declining fertility, consider that it's not all choice.

Right.

Animals are not choosing to have their children later or to delay childbearing, right?

They have big careers.

Yeah.

Beavers are trying to make dams. They don't have time for children.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So for, for me, you know, it's not th-there those are good those are explanations for sure. Obviously, when you get older, your fertility is less. Obviously, if you have a busy life and you don't have time to have children, you shouldn't have children. But the toxics matter.

Yeah.

They matter a lot.

100%.

Yeah.

And the animals, uh, is the issue exposure to water that has these chemicals in it because of pollution? What is what is causing it with them?

It's all it's in the water. It's in the soil. It's, um, in the what they eat because it comes in, you know, in the plants. Um.

It gets into the plants?

Yeah. Do you know that phthalates I'm just this is a little fun fact. Phthalates are put in pesticides. Why would they do that? Well, they because one of the things that phthalates do is they increase absorption. That's why they're in hand cream.

Ah.

Right? You see, you put your hand cream on, it goes in your skin, right? Phthalates help that. You w you have the pesticide you wanted to go into the plant, phthalates help that. So, you know, they're these exposures are all over the place for and animals are getting them too. A long time ago I don't think we talked about this, but there was a wonderful scientist who's not living anymore. His name is Lou Gillette. He lived in Florida. And he showed that alligators swimming in a lake that had a lot of runoff of pesticides.

Ooh.

He measured them. And he was he was a big he's like you, he was a big guy. He, he went he had to do it at night. He went at night, wrestled them into the boat. And I have pictures of that. Took him to his lab.

Measured their penises?

Measured their penises.

They must have been very confused when they got let go. Like, what is this guy kinky with? What is his thing?

You know, and, and they and they had fewer eggs.

Right.

So they were declining species. That's just a very dramatic example of, uh, you know, if you can you put up, hmm, penis size and alligator penis size? I'm just wondering.

As if you don't already Google that, Jamie.

Let me find you a photo. Uh, I asked our, uh, Perplexity this thing, and it says, yeah.

So our sponsor, Perplexity, said, "Yes, this has actually been documented in wild alligators. Males in heavily polluted lakes have, on average, smaller penises and other reproductive problems linked to hormone-disrupting chemicals. We are shrinking alligator penises, ladies and gentlemen."

And not only alligator penises.

20, 25% smaller penis sizes compared to males from a cleaner reference lake.

Yeah.

Males of lower testosterone levels, around 70% lower, abnormal relationships between hormone levels and penis growth, unlike alligators from cleaner lakes. Alligators from polluted lakes also show other reproductive issues, abnormal sex hormone patterns, altered gonads, low hatching success, various birth defects, all consistent with exposure to endocrine-disrupting contaminants, EDCs such as DDT derivatives, uh, dildrine.

Mm-hmm.

PCBs and related compounds. Wow. So it's all endocrine disruptors from pollution. Oh, boy. Yeah. I mean, you would think that this would sound the alarm, like.

And this is not new. This is he's dead. This is old work.

Oh. And no one knows.

Yes.

Yeah. It's never discussed. First of all, it's not a lot of people that say, "First problem on my list today, alligator penis sizes." It's a real issue. Like, you're in front of Congress. We got to talk. Alligator penis sizes are shrinking. They'd kick you out of the building.

Actually, he, Lou Gillette, went to Congress, and he gave a talk.

Mm-hmm.

And he said, "Every man in this room is half the man his grandfather was."

Hmm. As far as testosterone levels, right?

And penis size well, he didn't measure their penis.

Did grandpa's penis size.

He was making this point, you know, and fertility and all this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, it completely makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is how little attention that's being paid. You would think that in a society that is fa I mean, America is also facing a potential population collapse.

Mm-hmm.

People don't think about that, but our reproduction numbers.

Mm-hmm.

We're not reprodu yeah. They're, they're down quite a bit, and they're not at the level that we need in order to keep our population.

It's the you know, the normal shape of the population is like this, right?

Mm-hmm.

So this is up here, not very many people, and down here, lots and lots of people.

And this is terms of age.

Age, correct.

Older, younger at the bottom.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Lots of people are living longer, but few are down here. And then what that means is the ones down here are supposed to support the ones up here.

But there's not enough of them.

But not enough of them.

Right. Yeah.

So there it's a huge societal problem. Um.

Well, it's just so confusing how few people are even aware of this. We were talking I didn't realize it had been five years since our last podcast, which is pretty crazy. But in that five years, you barely hear about it. I-it's occasional. People bring up certain chemicals they think are bad. Oh, avoid this. Uh, Paul Saladino was the one that showed that the paper cups that you get from a coffee shop, that if you take that paper away, what you have is essentially this plastic membrane, and that's what you're drinking your coffee out of.

Yeah.

But even that, it's like people just dismiss it. The line around Starbucks is always the same. There's always people going to get their coffee. They don't think anything of it, and they're just consuming these chemicals that mess up your health, mess up your vitality, your, your energy levels, everything, brain fog, all this.

But whose whose whose responsibility is it, you know?

Well, to talk about it, I think it's ours. It's certainly yours and mine.

It is yours.

And well, we'll spread this word, and more people discuss it. Um, and I think more people need to be aware that this directly impacts you. Like, this is not like in the future. I don't have to think about it. I'll be dead. No. It's it directly impacts your health, your energy levels, your vitality right now as a living human being listening to this show.

So just to add to that, how it affects you not you.

Humans.

Maybe your levels are lower. I don't know. But we'll find out. But, um, both men and women who have lower fertility on average these are studies. There have been about four or five studies that have shown this. Lower fertility and sperm count on the male side die younger. Die younger. Okay? This is should be of concern to everybody.

Yeah.

You know, lots of pregnancy is sh yeah.

You have less vitality.

Yeah.

You have less energy.

Yeah.

Less hormones.

And the things that affect your sperm, your vitality, your testosterone are also affecting other it's a it's a canary in the coal mine, if you will, of lots of things that are going south.

Right.

At the same time.

Which completely makes sense. And as the case of my friend Philip, all this fatigue, all these issues that he was experiencing.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's not just one never just one thing.

Right.

Yeah.

It's, uh it is quite disturbing how uncommon these discussions are, though. That's what's crazy, you know, that this is a this should be a huge factor. I mean, we get concerned with so many oh, there's people concerned with alcohol consumption. It's a big thing. Like, and that has had an impact. Children today or young adults, I should say, today are consuming much less alcohol than people in the past. Cigarette smoking, we're aware, very dangerous. Much less cigarette smoking than in the past.

So I want to go back to this question I asked is, whose responsibility? So I don't think it's I mean, it's great for you and I to be concerned and for your listeners to be concerned, but in fact, it shouldn't be our responsibility because the you know, the drug FDA does drugs, right?

Mm-hmm.

They have pretty good control of, you know, safety of drugs.

Eh.

Pretty good.

Eh.

Yeah. Okay. We can talk about that. But, but compared to chemicals in our daily products that products we use every day, it's fantastic because.

Right.

The regulatory agencies are not doing the job.

Right.

Okay? And so that's why it's all out there because they're not doing the job. Here, in Europe, it's much better, by the way.

Is it?

Yeah.

Well, that's bad 'cause they're going to beat us. They'll re outreproduce us. We'll go away, and they'll take over. No more America.

We have to get people angry.

Yes.

Enough to put pressure on you know, there there's a bill, the TOSCA, Toxic Substances Control Act, which should be doing a lot of this. And I think it's coming up for revision. And, and, you know, maybe people can pay attention to that and read about it and, you know, think, "Government should be doing this. It's not our job."

Mm-hmm.

It's not our job to worry about what's in our pants and what's in our this and our this and our this.

Right.

You were asking what kind of what's in, you know, denim and so on. Should we have to read up on that?

Is there are there dyes for jeans and clothes that are not toxic?

Yes, but as I said, this is not my area.

I understand.

Yeah. You got to get I can give you a name if you want to get somebody on clothing and, you know, on this, uh.

Yeah. I'd be happy to.

Yeah. Yeah. But, um, just because it was relatively new to my consciousness when I was, you know, doing the film. And before that, I we didn't collect data on that, unfortunately. You know, maybe we should do another study. Which reminds me, there it's just like so much work to be done. And for my program, there's so many interventions I want to do. We did this one, which great success, and now we're doing another one, and we have another one. But if anybody wants to help, you know, with this, it's all privately funded.

Hmm.

The government is not going to fund this.

Right. Unfortunately.

Unfortunately. So, you know.

I mean.

Let me know if anybody comes to you and says, "How can we help?" and all that.

Well, I'm sure somebody will reach out.

Yeah.

They usually do. Um, the, the thing that I, I would imagine would be the response to something like this was that there are so many industries that are established already that require the use of all these compounds, all these chemicals, all these endocrine-disrupting chemicals. And it is a it's just everywhere. And it's everywhere in everything. They use plastic in the production of so many different things. These things are leaching into our food.

Good luck.

And, and exactly. Well, the president passed an executive order blocking it because some enormous percent, 90-something percent of all of our food in when in terms of wheat, corn, all the agriculture in this country relies on glyphosate for production. And so the, the idea is we need poison so that we can make food, which is so crazy, especially when you consider the fact that all these other countries don't use glyphosate and feed their population.

Right.

And what do we need to do to.

Right.

To get back on that track? And you know, I had, uh, RFK Jr. in here to discuss it, and he was very crestfallen when he was explaining that there was an executive order passed and that, you know, he was working very hard to try to eliminate glyphosate in something that he discussed in, you know, previous meetings that he and I had. It was one of his primary concerns. Glyphosate is toxic. It's terrible. It's just completely awful for your body, yet the use of it is ubiquitous in agriculture, industrial ag.

Yeah.

Agriculture. And he was trying very hard to try to eliminate it. And then the government passes this executive order because.

Pressure.

Their estimation.

Pressure.

Yeah. Exactly. Pressure. Ex yeah. And this is what I worry about with.

Yeah. Of course.

And I don't want to men-mention any names, but there's a lot of these popular clothing brands that people wear that are, you know, fitness. I'm healthy. I'm fitness wear. And these fitness wear that you're these clothings that you're wearing are leaching these chemicals into your body that are screwing up your health, which is so crazy.

Crazy, right?

But it's so I don't want to say it's perfect, but it, it sort of encapsulates how screwed up our modern life is.

The paradox. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

The paradox.

Yeah. So I did a study on glyphosate. I mean, I examined our populations for glyphosate. And interestingly, they also have an effect on remember anogenital distance?

Yes. The taint size.

The taint size.

Yes.

They influence the taint size.

Yeah.

Now, that's not we did it in two studies, and there's been some animal studies. I can't say this is an established fact, but I'm just pointing out that it has very, you know, many unforeseen consequences, none of them good. And by the way, I was asked to go to talk to RFK tomorrow, but I can't 'cause I have another, another call meeting. But, but, um, I would love to talk to him about this because this, this glyphosate is a, a big concern of mine.

Well, I hope you do talk to him.

Yeah. He, um.

Um.

He has these roundtables.

Mm-hmm.

And on different scientific topics. So this one is on microplastics, which is not perfect for me because I haven't measured them. But, but if he has one on glyphosate or pesticides, that would be a good place for him.

Well, his hands are tied right now on the glyphosate issue.

Yeah.

Momentarily.

Yeah.

They have some non-toxic solutions. Um, one of them is they have this new device, which is it, it like the same way these machines crop pull the crops out of the ground.

Hmm.

These machines go over the crops and zap all the non-essential crops with a laser beam. Non-essential crops, excuse me, non-essential plants. So weeds, I would say.

Hmm.

So as the corn's growing or whatev whatever else it is, they're zapping all the other stuff that's growing around it that's sucking up all the resources.

Interesting.

All the weeds.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That sounds like a good step.

That's a great step.

'Cause it minimizes the use of pesticides.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I asked, "Does it have any residual effect on the food?" He said, "No." Well, that's great. But then, you know, farmers, one of the big problems is they're already barely making money.

Yeah.

So if you now require them to spend, you know, X amount of dollars on some gigantic weed zapping laser that has to cover who knows how many acres, they're running these mono I mean, I'm sure you're aware, but monocrop agriculture, for people who've never seen some of these places that grow corn and wheat, you're talking about these massive pieces of land that only grow one thing, which in nature doesn't exist.

Right.

So of course, nature wants to rectify that. Nature's like, "Why is there only wheat here? You need weeds." And so, you know, birds drop seeds.

Right.

All these seeds fly in the wind.

Right.

And then all these things grow. So you're going to have to get these machines that are capable of traveling over all of those crops and zapping out all the weeds. How much is that going to cost to people that are already struggling?

Yeah.

You know, 'cause the American farmers are barely getting by, barely, and we need them. And, you know, the last thing you want to do is burden them with another cost. But also, you know, the use of especially when it comes to things like wheat because they're using it after they harvest the wheat to dry it out quicker so it doesn't grow mold on it. That's why they're using glyphosate. So it's not even it's not even as a pesticide.

Mm-hmm.

It's they're using it.

I didn't know that.

Yeah. They're using it as a I guess a desiccator.

Wow.

Yeah. And that's why so many theorized to be why so many people in this country have a problem with bread, you know?

Hmm.

Does it make sense?

And with their taint. No.

And their taint. Yeah. A lot of taint problems. A lot of people are complaining. Uh, but it's just it's so weird that we're so intelligent and so informed, and, you know, now we all have supercomputers in our pockets that have access to things like Perplexity that can answer any questions you have about anything. But yet we're being poisoned by the very food that we eat, the coffee that we drink, the clothing that we wear.

The water we drink.

The water we drink, everything.

Yeah.

Here's a good question. Are there any good filters on a consumer level that will remove a lot of these chemicals from water that a person could buy?

I can't name any brands.

Right. But are they available?

Yeah. But yes, there are. But I, I.

Is it reverse osmosis? Like, what are the ones that work the best?

I'll tell you my, my solution in my house.

Yeah. Please.

Okay. That's very personal. Um, we distill our water. You, you know?

Mm-hmm.

So, so the water out of the tap.

Mm-hmm.

Goes into a big container, and then it's boiled, steam is formed, crosses over, and the steam is condensed into another container, right?

Right.

And that has nothing in it and removes everything. And by the way, all germs also. So that's what we've chosen. And, and in this thing that sits on the counter, um, my husband does this every other day. It's kind of a nuisance, but not too bad. And, and the water is fantastic.

Do you have to remineralize it?

You should take minerals somewhere. You can do it in the water. You can do it in your supplements. Yeah. You, you it is does remove the minerals. Yes.

Right. And that's what I've heard is the problem with drinking distilled water is that it actually leaches minerals and nutrients from your own body.

That I don't believe.

No?

I don't believe that.

Okay.

But the water itself has had its minerals from.

Well, let's put it into Perplexity. What, what is the issue with drinking distilled water for health purposes? And is it recommended that you add electrolytes or minerals or what have you? Because, um, that's what so one of the things that, uh, fighters do when they're cutting weight I don't think most of them do it anymore, but a lot of them were drinking distilled water so that the water would go in their system and right out of their system. 'Cause cutting weight for fighting I don't know if you know about this.

Yeah.

But they have to weigh in at a certain weight class. And essentially, what they do is radically dehydrate themselves 24 hours before a fight, which is not a great idea. It's a terrible idea. So Perplexity says it is generally safe to drink distilled water. Most people do not need to add minerals to it as long as they eat a reasonably balanced diet.

Right.

Distilled water is simply water that's been boiled and re condensed, so it's very low in contaminants and minerals. Health sources note that it is safe to drink but tends to taste flat 'cause minerals like calcium and magnesium are removed. Uh, what about minerals? You get the vast majority of needed minerals, calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc., from food, not water. So distilled water alone does not usually cause deficiencies in healthy people with a good diet. However, some organizations and reviews point out that long-term use of very low mineral water may slightly reduce mineral intake.

Mm-hmm.

I, I always add electrolytes to water.

Mm-hmm.

Every day when I.

Here, here's a funny anecdote. We have a cat, and his name.

What's your cat's name?

His name is Archie.

Archie.

Archie. And Archie comes patrols the house and steals our water whenever possible. He comes and drinks from our glasses unless we cover them up. And.

So they think Archie probably likes your water 'cause it doesn't smell like poison to him.

He loves our water.

Ah.

And, and he has the choice of his own water, which comes out of the tap, and he will 100% prefer our distilled water.

Which makes sense if you think about a cat's sense of smell. It's got to be off the charts.

Yeah.

So he can probably smell like, "This water's got a bunch of junk in it."

And when you do the distill do the process, which Stephen does, you know, every other day, and he goes to clean the container that you put the water in, it stinks.

Hmm.

It really stinks. You would be shocked.

Wow. Well, we have, uh, a crazy filter at our house. We have well water.

Mm-hmm.

And then we have this crazy filter, this giant machine that filters all the water. It tastes delicious, but, um, it's not distilled.

Hmm. I'm not I'm not saying that, you know, um, that's you shouldn't distill. That's an alternative. I mean, sorry. You shouldn't filter. That's an alternative. But I'm just saying what we chose to do in our house.

Right.

Yeah.

And so, um, the distilling, it removes chlorine and all these other issues that are in the water as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And fluoride.

Everything.

Everything. Yeah. Fluoride is another one that's. Bananas that we add to water.

Right.

Under the guise that it helps your teeth. Like.

I know.

Shut up, brush your teeth.

Yeah.

You know, I don't have any cavities. I don't use fluoride. I have fluoride-free toothpaste.

Yeah.

I don't have fluoride in my water.

Yeah.

It's dumb. It's not just dumb. It's completely connected to lower IQs. There's a cor direct correlation between higher fluoride content in water.

Mm-hmm.

And lower IQs. But there's a giant business involved in selling fluoride to these municipal water supplies.

I know.

Which is nuts. More poison.

And they're chlorination.

And we are so screwed up.

Chlorination.

Yeah.

And I've studied for years, I studied chlorination byproducts, and they cause miscarriages.

So it's got to be terrible for people that swim a lot in public pools, right?

Yeah. I.

'Cause then it's being absorbed by your skin.

I don't know how much exposure you get in the relatively short time you're swimming.

Let's find out.

You know, I don't know. Yeah.

Let's find out. Put that into Perplexity. How much of an issue, uh, is chlorine exposure in swimming pools? Hmm. Let's find out. We don't know. We're learning so much.

I love this little science.

It's like that's not that question's going to get tossed around here by Perplexity 'cause it could go multiple ways with it. Like, is, is there too much chlorine? Like, what are you like, you know what I mean? Right. Okay. Let's say, uh, is chlorine exposure in swimming pools a health concern?

Yeah. That's good.

There we go. Let's try that. I bet it is. I mean, it only makes sense. I would like to study someone like Michael Phelps, someone who spent like.

Spent his life in a pool.

Thousands of hours in a pool.

Yeah.

Whether or not it's affected his body in any way, whether or not there's like measurable chlorine levels in his urine or what have you. Chlorine in properly maintained pools is generally considered safe, but it can cause irritation of eye, skin, and airways. Well, that can't be good. And heavily frequent exposure, especially indoors, can contribute to respiratory problems in some people. What chlorine does in pools, it kills germs like bacteria and viruses in pools, and it's key for preventing infections and diarrhea illnesses from contaminated water.

Hmm.

Responsible for any health issues? Let's just just through the skin. See if there's any studies on that. Chlorine getting into the body through the intact skin from pool water does not appear to cause systemic whole body health problems in otherwise healthy people. Its effects are almost entirely local to the skin itself. What skin exposure you actually does, chlorine's an irritant that strips the natural skin oils, disrupts the outer barrier, leading to dryness, tightness, itching.

Yeah.

What exposure does chlorine have to healthy skin flora? Because healthy skin flora, you know, I, I do jiu-jitsu, and, um, one of the things that happens with jiu-jitsu is you get a lot of skin diseases. Like, you get.

Really?

People get ringworm, staph infections.

Wow.

Well, you're getting scratched up a lot, and you're rolling around on the, the mats. And if the mats are dirty.

Hmm.

Um, and if it's just there's exposure to it, you can have a problem. And then one of the problems that people have is to treat that, they use antibacterial skin soap. So what that does is it strips the skin of all the healthy flora.

Right.

Which actually protects you.

Yeah.

The con the counter to that, I always bring this up. I have no affiliation with this product, but it's an excellent product. It's called Defense Soap. Defense Soap is, uh, uh, my friend Guy Sako, he invented it. He's a wrestling coach. And his it was a solution using healthy things like, uh, tea tree oil, eucalyptus in the soap that kills the bad bacteria but does nothing to the healthy flora.

That's great.

Yes.

Yeah.

So that's the only soap that I use.

Yeah.

Um, uh, chlorinated pool water does disturb normal skin flora temporarily, but in healthy people, the microbiome usually recovers within hours to a day or so after swimming. So that's a problem if you swim every day then.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chlorine is a broad disinfectant, so it kills or suppresses both good and bad bacteria on the skin surface.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Reducing overall microbial, uh, diversity right after swimming. Experimental and field studies show that even short exposure can cut measured microbiome diversity markedly, often cited around 30 to 40%, with composition shifting away from the usual dominant groups right after a swim. How long disruption lasts? After leaving the pool, many of the resident species begin to recolonize from deeper skin lever layers, ha uh, hair follicles, and the environment, and community composition tends to drift backward towards baseline over the next 24-plus hours.

Interesting.

I think there's a problem with saltwater pools in very high-temperature areas, though.

Mm-hmm.

Where it's not effective enough to stop mold and all the junk.

Right. Right. Right. Right.

Yeah.

Do you want to see these products I brought?

I would love to see these products I brought.

Here you go. These are for cleaning up your skin.

Just a note on what you just said.

What's up, Jamie?

A note on what you just said. A saltwater pool is still technically a chlorine pool.

Oh, still a chlorine pool.

Yeah.

It just makes the chlorine on site instead of pouring it in. Oh.

Yeah.

Salt systems work. Pool is ordinary salt, sodium chloride, dissolved in the water, usually around 2,700 to 3,400 parts per million, which is about one-tenth of the salinity of the ocean. And close to body fluid levels, the water passes through an electrically charged salt cell.

Hmm.

Which uses electrolysis to convert some of that salt into active chlorine, uh, mainly hypochlorous acid and sodium hypochlorite that sanitizes the pool. After chlorine does its job, it ends up back as chloride, and the cycle repeats. So you keep generating chlorine as long as the system runs and there's enough salt. What's different from your standard chlorine pool, you still have free chlorine in the water at typical pool levels, about one to four parts per million. The difference is the source, salt generator versus liquid tablet chlorine, not the sanitizer itself.

Um, sealed. So should I open it?

Should be open.

No, it's not sealed. It's tight. What do we got in here? A lot of stuff.

So in the movie, you'll see that I came to the homes of the participants with a big box about this big.

Mm-hmm.

So this is obviously a very small part of that.

Okay.

Yeah. This is just part of your kitchen.

So these are bags that are safe.

Yeah.

Oven freezer, microwave. It's called Zip Top.

Yeah. They're silicone. They're made of silicone.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So silicone's okay.

Silicone that's there is, um, food-grade silicone.

Okay.

And that is, um.

Like spatulas.

Yeah.

The little spatulas.

And, and they're and food-grade silicone is free of phthalates and bisphenols, so.

Okay.

You can use that.

Oh, this is a lot thicker. This is like.

A lot thicker. Yeah.

Yeah. And so this is reusable?

Still?

Is that the idea?

Yeah. Absolutely. And you just store your put your food in the fridge in that instead of in a.

So you can buy these things.

Oh, yeah.

They're this company, Zip Top, is the do they make them specifically for that reason?

Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. There's one of many companies that makes.

So this is essentially like a Ziploc bag.

Exactly.

But it's way thicker.

Yeah.

Kind of cool. And so they make these larger as well so you can.

Yeah.

Okay.

There are a lot of good alternatives for food storage. You know, glass, of course, is really good.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and ceramic is really good.

It seems so much better too because it's not creating as much plastic waste since it's reusable.

Right. Right. Right.

Now, do you just run this through a dishwasher?

Yeah.

Now, what about dishwashing solvents and detergents.

Oh.

And stuff like that? Ugh. Oh.

Ugh. Yeah.

There's always problems.

Yeah.

The world's filled with problems, Jamie.

The pods are probably not great.

Oh, right. Of course, right?

Yeah.

Damn pods.

Pods, tea bags, coffee pods. Yeah.

Remember when kids were eating Tide pods?

Mm-hmm.

It's like nature's trying to get rid of some of the dummies. Um, okay. So this company.

I think there's two of those in there.

Yeah.

These are just little examples, you know.

Let's give this company a shout out. It's called, uh, Zip Top. And, uh, I guess they make them all sizes.

Yeah.

This is like sandwich size.

Yeah.

This is, I guess, a snack size. And they make them larger too.

Yeah. And they seal well, you know.

Um, that's another question that I had about sous vide. Um, there's a lot of, uh, people that cook their food in, uh, these sous vide machines.

A lot? Really?

That's very common.

Oh.

Yeah.

I thought it was kind of high, you know, kind of.

In restaurants and stuff?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I know there's consumer versions of it that.

Mm-hmm.

I know a lot of my friends use it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They, they use it for wild game in particular because you can slow cook.

Mm-hmm.

So one of the things about wild game, it has a very low fat content.

Mm-hmm.

And a lot of people find that it, it, uh, it's more tender if you slowly cook. So let's say if you like medium rare is like what is medium rare? Like 135 degrees, I think. So you what you would do is you would take this, uh, piece of meat, and you would seal it up in a vacuum-sealed container, and you dunk it in this sous vide machine, and it keeps the water at 135 degrees. You can cook it for several hours at 135, and then you sear the outside of it.

Nice. Yeah.

And so a lot of people like that. And it's really good for breaking down some of the harder stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, the fascia and the.

Gristle. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And so is that stuff leaking chemicals into your food? It has to be, right?

Why?

Well, because it's in plastic. You're getting these vacuum-sealed plastic bags that the food goes in.

Oh, okay.

And you have you seen how sous vide works?

Do you have to put it in plastic?

Yes. Have you seen how these sous vide things work?

No. Then it's bad. Then it sounds just as bad as microwaving in plastic.

Right. Right.

Right.

So what you do with sous vide is you season the food.

Yeah.

And a lot of times, uh, you'll add, like, olive oil and things like that to the outside of it.

But couldn't you couldn't make it out of silicone?

I w I would imagine you could, right? I don't know. Let's find that out. Has anybody made, uh, silicone-based sous vide bags and do these sous vide bags leach chemicals?

I just saw a discussion on Reddit about this, but they didn't really have an answer. Like, they're asking if the temperatures might not be high enough. I don't know.

Yeah. What are the temperatures that, uh, you need that start these chemicals leaking into.

Oh.

Uh, from the plastics into your water? Because a lot of times they say don't leave a b a bottle of water in your car.

That's right.

Because your car can get really hot.

Yeah.

So how, how hot's your car get? It doesn't get that hot. It doesn't get, like, cooking hot. So it's like what is.

Um.

But if the sous vide bags don't have plasticizers in them.

Oh, the perplexity of plastic.

Like, if they're made of silicone.

Right.

You know, food-based food what is it? Food-grade silicone.

Yeah. Similar. Is it like a sous vide bag?

So it says we use vacuum-sealed bags. We're really going through them right now, even on early sous vide. I tried silicone, reusable, and I wasn't happy. I don't really recall why. I think it was hard to get stuff in without a mess. Okay. That doesn't make any sense. Uh, just deal with the mess. We made, uh, switched to vacuum bags. I love it, but oof, we use a lot of bags. Okay. Put this into Perplexity, please. Um, do sous vide bags leach endocrine-disrupting chemicals into your food when you cook with them?

Yeah.

Doesn't it ha does it have to be vacuum-sealed?

Yes.

Probably, right? Because you don't want water leaking in there.

Yeah. You don't want water leaking in. The one I have a machine, like, and I use this vacuum-sealed machine. Like, so if I get wild game and then I cut it up into pieces, and then I, uh, I seal it in these vacuum-sealed bags to freeze it. Um, silicone-based sous vide bags are generally considered safe for food use and do not significantly leach significantly is a weird word.

Mm-hmm.

Leach harmful chemicals under typical cooking conditions. High-quality, food-grade silicone is inert, BPA-free.

See.

Right.

Yeah.

Um, this is silicone, though. Food-grade silicone shows minimal chemical migration, such as cy-cyloxines, uh, especially compared to plastics that release microplastics like BPA. Um, this is a silicone, though. Um, when you what is it? What was the question that you asked? How did you phrase it?

Well, you were asking about sous vide.

Okay. You, you write silicone-based sous vide bags. Just let's not silicone-based. Just, like, plastic sous vide bags.

Well, you know they're gonna leak stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's find out.

Yeah.

Regular plastic sous vide bags. Let's see what it says.

I don't know.

Right. But I wanna make sure that it's vacuum-sealed sous vide bags.

Hmm.

It does I mean, it should know that we're talking about sous vide bags here.

Regular plastic bags can be reasonably I don't like that word safe for sous vide if you use the right kind, food-grade, BPA, and phthalate-free.

Yay.

And rated for hot food.

Yeah.

But all plastics can leak some chemicals, and the data specific to sous vide is still limited.

Yeah.

What regular bags are safe? Look for bags made with, uh, polyethylene and/or polypropylene that are labeled food-grade and microwave-safe. Is there a plastic that's microwave-safe, though? Is that real? Are these are con.

These, these.

Yeah. These are considered safe with food up to around 190 to 195, uh, Fahrenheit. Most brands' Zipper bag, Ziploc Gla-Glad, are polyethylene, BPA, and dioxin-free and are commonly used for sous vide at typical temperatures below 176. Uh, purpose-made vacuum sealer or boil-in sous vide pouches, that's what I use, are specifically certified as food-grade for cooking and are the safest plastic option if you want disposable. So it seems like it's reasonably safe to do that.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Review by Utah's Department of Health, no ta notice excuse me, notes that there's a lack of studies directly measuring chemical leaching from sous vide bags, but recommends using FDA-compliant BPA and phthalate-free plastics, which are not known for estrogenic activity and are considered safe for food contact. Okay. Hmm. It says trout see, it says there.

Yeah.

One trout study found detectable BPA in fish cooked. But the problem is food like, here's the problem. Freshwater lakes, if you're catching a trout in a freshwater lake, freshwater lakes have horrible levels of these chemicals in them. And most people do not recommend eating food from freshwater lakes, which is so crazy. You think, "Oh, I'm gonna go catch a fish from a lake. This is gonna be really healthy."

Yeah.

It's right from nature. Uh-uh. No, we've ruined lakes. Yeah. What i like, what is the issue put this in. What is the issue with eating fish from freshwater lakes in America? What are the health issues?

Health issues. Yeah.

Eating fish from freshwater lakes in America. We've looked this up before. It's kind of stunning how much chemicals you get from a single fish that you would catch. So if you catch a trout from, you know, a regular lake.

Mm-hmm.

You go to a lake, it looks clean. I can see the bottom. Everything's fine. No. It's bad for you. In fact, I know a guy who, uh, is friends with someone who does a lot of fishing tournaments. So he goes to these fishing tournaments, catches a lot of fish. He eats a lot of fish, obviously. And he got horribly, horribly sick because of heavy metal poisoning and.

Isn't it terrible?

Crazy. You think you're eating fresh fish that you've caught yourself. It's gotta be good, right?

And it's gotta be bad for the fish.

Eating US freshwater fish can expose you to chemical contaminants like mercury and PFAS. Um, and if eaten undercooked or raw, it parasites some bacteria. Most people can still eat freshwater fish safely if they follow local advisories and avoid high-risk groups, pregnant people, young children eating too much.

Mm-hmm.

Main chemical risks, mercury, um, methylmercury. Nearly all wild fish contain some mercury, but levels in many US freshwater fish can be high enough to harm a fetus or a young child's developing brain and nervous system if eaten often. That's crazy. PFAS, forever chemicals. Many US freshwater fish have measurable PFAS and in some studies show widespread PFAS plus mercury in fish tissue at levels that pose health risks for frequent consumers. PFAS exposure has been linked to changes in liver and kidney function, cholesterol, immune response, pregnancy complications, and increased risk of certain cancers.

I don't know why they haven't mentioned autoimmune uh, immune res oh, they do say immune. Immune response. Yes.

Yeah. Immune response.

Yeah. This guy in, in Denmark studied people on the Faroe Islands, which they all eat fish. They catch them, you know, the Faroe Islands.

Yeah.

They catch them there. And so he looked at the levels of PFAS, and then he looked at their, um, antibody response to vaccination.

Oh.

Down.

Down.

And, and so think of what that means in, you know, like, this time-time of COVID or whatever.

Mm-hmm.

I wanna do an intervention where we take kids who are getting PFAS-free school uniforms. Remember I told you PFAS was in school uniforms?

Mm-hmm.

And then when they come in at age six for their first, you know, grade, they will have just had their booster, so then we could get their blood and see if the booster, you know, antibody levels were lower in the kids that had the PFAS uniforms versus a clean uniform.

Booster for which vaccines?

Um, m-mumps, pertussis. Um, this MM MMP, I think it's called.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so it's lower it's a lower response if your body's exposed.

You're less protected.

To these chemicals.

The, the.

So you would imagine even if you're not, you just lower response period to all immune function based on this.

Right. Right. Yeah.

What is these, these things?

Lufamids.

Oh, Lufamids.

So you can use them to, to scrub the your sink and.

Yeah.

Or your face.

I use them in the shower.

Yeah. Or in the shower.

But you should use those for your food.

But, but the, the, the sponges that you most people use have a lot of chemicals in them.

Of course. Makes sense.

So these are better.

Yeah. They're plastic sponges.

Right.

And you get them in hot water, and you're scrubbing things, and some of the stuff probably gets in your plates and your food and your, your cookingware.

Yeah. So that's good.

All right. What else we got here? Bees wrap.

That's really nice stuff.

What is this stuff?

It actually, you can treat a that this is some kind of paper that's been treated with beeswax.

Oh.

So nothing dirty there. And take it out. You'll see how nice it is.

Okay.

I love this stuff. I have a lot of it. 'Cause it seals all.

Oh, so you peel the wax?

That's the wax.

Waxy things.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. So you use that to wrap your, your food with.

Yeah. And it, it.

So.

Seals on itself, and you just rinse it out afterwards.

Oh.

So you don't have to use Saran wrap and, you know, all these.

It does seal on itself.

So nice.

It seems like a form fits around things.

Yeah. It form you can put it on an egg or tomato or anything you want.

Well, with my friend Philip, I guarantee he eats a lot of sushi. He runs a sushi place. And if you ever go to a sushi place, all the fish is wrapped in plastic.

Yeah.

They're always wrapped in plastic.

Yeah.

And then they cut it open. And so the exposure to all this stuff.

Right.

You, you should use this stuff.

Yeah.

Probably has the same level of sealing as plastic does.

Might be more expensive, though. Yeah.

But what's your health worth?

Right.

But it's also reusable, which plastic is.

Oh, absolutely. Just, just wash it. Yeah.

That's the thing.

Yeah.

It's like it's probably economical in the long run.

Right.

Because plastic wrap, you don't reuse.

Right.

Unless you're a psycho.

And it gets all over the, the world and everywhere.

Right. Everywhere. I'm sure you've seen the, uh, Pacific Garbage Patch.

Mm-hmm.

Which is crazy, right? Um, these are bags, and these bags are called Wowee, W-O-W-E, right?

Mm-hmm.

And what is this?

It's another food storage, you know, choice, option.

Is it paper or no, no, it's, um, cloth.

Cloth. But clean cloth. Yeah.

And so you use this just.

Like, for bread.

Oh, okay.

It's really good bread.

Oh, okay.

Cookies, you know, stuff like that.

Okay.

Yeah. We use those. Yeah.

And so is this all all these different products listed on your website so people can.

They're listed on the Million Marker.

Okay.

There's a car a can there, a card there to scan the QR code, and you can go to that.

And, um, but it would be nice if it was, like, a one so if you scan the QR code, is there a one-stop shop? Like, people listening to this right now.

Yeah.

Can we send them to a website that can.

Yeah.

What, what website would that be?

I don't I can't m look at the card.

This one, Tips for a Deca Detox Journey. So this is, uh, the QR. So if I scan this right now, it'll tell take me there.

Yeah.

Where's my phone? This world that we live in. We're not ready. Okay. It says the, the website is millionmarker.com. Chemical glossary. So this is the chemical glossary that's on this card, but it doesn't I don't know.

Not the products, right?

It doesn't say the products. It says partners. Is that.

So there's products on that other website I told you, um, Unplastic Your Life.

Unplasticyourlife.

Yeah.

Dot com. So that's a place where people can go and see these products.

And then.

Here it is.

So there's three steps. Unplasticyourlife.com, Action Hub, Protect Yourself. And then it can tell you how to protect yourself against various things in different rooms. I have it by rooms, I think.

What is this one, Jamie? This one says.

This is it. This is the same website. I just already went to the Action Hub.

Yeah. Oh, so when you go to unplasticyourlife.com.

Yeah.

It takes you to OSP Society.

And then go to the Action Hub.

Yeah. It redirects to this website.

Got it.

And then go to the Action Hub, Protect Your Family. And then are the products listed down there? Okay. Yeah. There it is. Okay. Single okay. Uh, non-plastic bags, non uh, steel cookware. Got it. Uh, replace the plastic cutting boards with wood. So I think some people use titanium, which is fine too, right?

Mm-hmm.

And then what above that? What's above that? Uh, steel single-use drinking water containers. Never use plastics to store your food in. Never heat plastics. Holy. Save your skin by selecting personal care products with natural ingredients, such in glass or tin packaging. Boy. So disturbing.

Washing your clothes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. By the way, we didn't talk about smell.

Smell.

But everything that's fragranced has phthalates.

Of course.

And, you know, like, you think you're doing good if you hang that little pine tree in your car.

Not good?

Not good. And, and you plug in things in the wall that's supposed to clean up your air and, you know, refresh your air and so on. Not good.

There's ones that are in cars now, like certain cars. I think Mercedes has one where you refill it, and you can it actually will sp-spray air freshener through the vents.

Oof. I don't know.

Does Mercedes do that? I think it's Mercedes, which makes sense. You know, luxury. I wanna smell like lavender as I'm driving.

Right.

Ah, look at me in my luxurious car.

You know.

Smelling lavender.

Something.

Dying of chemical exposure.

We asked women on the on this our ser you know, our study. We said, um, what do you use? And then we said, was it fragranced?

Hmm.

And anything where they said that was fragranced, their body burden of phthalates was higher.

Of course. What about natural deodorants?

I don't know.

Yeah.

You have to look at it.

'Cause yeah. I use natural deodorant to try to avoid a lot of that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

On the product for it on the website, it says it's a miscellaneous dangerous good, I think.

What?

I don't know what that is.

What? It says miscellaneous dangerous goods.

Maybe it's when they ship it or something.

What, what are you looking at?

Other dangerous substance. The interior of the vehicle can be fragranced as su it says it right there.

Oh.

This is, uh, under Mercedes, under their smell. Aroma system.

Mm-hmm.

Pacific mood. Ooh, I want a Pacific mood. I'm living on the coast. I'm fabulous. And it says miscellaneous dangerous goods, other dangerous substances. That's crazy that it's labeled that way. The interior of the vehicle can be fragranced to suit your own individual preference with the air balance package. Uh, flacon Pacific mood, lemon and orange top notes accompanied by a blend of spices. Ah.

That's not.

Mile after mile.

Let's see what this word meant. I don't know if you wanna try this.

Whoa. Can you say that word, doctor?

Oh, no.

Give far.

Far good.

Good ten.

Ten.

Ten.

Ten.

Zykin.

Yeah.

I'm guessing it means miscellaneous dangerous goods, but.

But why I mean, why is it.

Why not?

Other dangerous they're calling it dangerous? That sounds really crazy.

Miscellaneous dangerous goods.

It is like hazard warnings. This is crazy. Like, why but why would they say that.

Put it on their website. Yeah.

And then you're spraying it and you're breathing it in.

It could be very well like one of those California rules where they say, like, this building has got dangerous chemicals that could cause cancer in people, and it, like, has to be on the list.

Oh, this is a joke.

Right?

Yeah.

But it's just weird that that's.

Sure.

In the actual stuff that you breathe in and smell.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I've, I've heard another thing that's really bad for you is incense.

Probably varies with the, you know, what's in it. I, I, I wouldn't blanket all incense. I don't I haven't studied that, so.

Well, let's put that into perplexity. What are the 'cause I know candles are bad for you.

Scents.

Scented candles in particular.

Scented.

Right.

Yes. Yes, there's their aroma again. See.

Yeah.

See, one of the things that phthalates do is they cause something to hold scent.

Mm-hmm.

Retain scent. So they're put into perfume, and they're put into makeup, and they're put into, you know, the things you put on your wall. And, and so, you know, you, you want something to smell for a long time, you're gonna use phthalates.

It says burning incense products, smoke, and chemicals that can irritate your lungs, worsen asthma and allergies, and with heavy long-term use in poorly ventilated spaces may increase risk for.

That's good.

Heart disease and some cancers. You know, you think incense, you go over to someone's house, they do yoga, they eat vegan, they burn incense, they must be healthy.

Right.

Um, long-term health risks, repeated long-term exposure daily for years, been associated in studies with increased risk of bronchitis, reduced lung function in children, and chronic respiratory symptoms in workers heavily exposed to temple incense. God. Epidemiological studies, mostly in Asian populations with heavy daily use, have linked long-term incense exposure to higher rates of cardiovascular problems, hypertension, coronary artery disease, stroke, chronic limb what's that word?

Ischemia.

Ischemia. What's that mean?

Mm-hmm.

What does ischemia mean?

Yeah.

That can't be good. Sounds terrible. What is ischemia? What is ischemia? Huh. Uh, lack of blood flow to part of a body, usually because of an artery, is narrowed or blocked. Severe or prolonged, the affected tissue can be damaged or die. Oh, great. Oh, wonderful. So you, you, you think about incense, you think like healthy, natural people.

Really?

They've died 'cause they're on their phone and they're not paying attention. They stub their toe and fall, and this thing goes through their eyeball and they die.

Oh, shoo.

Yeah.

Okay. I won't recommend that.

But also, you could die just falling. I mean, if you're falling and you're holding a steel straw, throw it to the side. That's my advice.

So if you wanna do this, little experiment of one that we're talking about.

Okay.

And of one, unless Jamie wants to do it too.

Jamie's in. Look at him. He's down.

Um, then Jenna or her somebody on her team, if you had an hour.

Mm-hmm.

Half an hour, I don't know how long it takes, call you and said ask you, what did you use? What did you use? What did you use for this, this, this, this, right?

Right.

And then they'll recommend what to change.

Right. I recently underwent this plasmapheresis.

I know. Yeah.

Thing. Yeah. And, uh, that's supposed to remove a lot of that stuff from your blood, correct? So my b I'll tell you what, the next day, um, I was very tired that day.

Mm-hmm.

Like, exhausted that day.

Mm-hmm.

But the next day afterwards.

It was.

I felt, like, lighter. I felt like, whoa, this is crazy.

Huh.

Like, I felt like I had more energy. Like, it was.

Yeah.

It was, like, kinda late at night. I was like, I'm not tired at all. This is weird. Like, I felt different, you know? And.

So that would be great. Are you gonna do it again?

Uh, no, I just did it. I mean, I would do it again.

Yeah.

But I just did it a few days ago.

Yeah. I was just wondering, you know, if you measured chemicals in your urine before you did that.

I should have done that.

And then after that.

I don't have any pee weight.

You're literally.

Around from before.

No.

I don't like stuff. But I could do it now, and maybe I have very low levels, and we could attribute that to the 'cause I, I haven't done the best job. Well, like I said, I did get rid of my plastic coffee machine at home. Uh, I did that about three or four weeks ago. One of the things it's done is it's made my morning coffee a lot harder to get. Uh, it's more of, like, a ritual now 'cause I, I use a, a steel water boiler thing that heats it up to 200 degrees.

And it's better than taste.

It tastes way better. But I'm a big coffee drinker.

Yeah.

I love coffee, but I like it black. Like, I love the flavor of coffee.

Yeah, me too.

I really do.

Yeah.

Um, and so it just tastes better. It tastes b French press, I think, is the best way to drink coffee anyway.

Yeah.

And so I kinda decided, like, why am I I've, I'm avoiding all these microplastics. I don't drink out of plastic c or paper cups. I do all these different things. Why am I still using a plastic coffee machine? I look at that thing every morning, and I was like, yeah, but it's gonna give me coffee right now. So I press the button to get my coffee right now.

Yeah.

Then I was like, that's stupid.

Yeah.

So now I just I only use.

Cool.

Something like this.

Cool.

Yeah.

Cool.

So I'd be interested to see if maybe I have low levels, uh, because I certainly feel like my body, um, it felt refreshed.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I had less inflammation, you know? But.

Mm-hmm.

That's like a two-hour procedure. It's a pain in the butt.

Yeah.

You know, you gotta sit there for two hours. You look like a psycho. You have like. I should have taken a photo of what I looked like while I was doing it 'cause I was laying there, and I had, like, cords in this arm and cords in that arm. So I had blood coming out of that arm and going back into that arm. It's really kinda nutty.

How expensive?

I don't know.

Oh.

Yeah. I don't know. Um, but I'm sure it's not cheap.

Yeah.

But the, the benefits of it in terms of, like, the people that I know that have done it said it's a game changer. In terms of your recovery, market recovery levels, uh, much better sleep. Like, if you're wearing an Oura Ring or a Whoop strap or something along those lines, you get much better recovery. And I think that's probably the case with me. I feel pretty good. But I do a lot of stuff, you know?

Yeah.

I do a lot of things to maximize my health. So it's really kinda difficult to know, like, what's doing what.

What's what's doing what. Yeah, yeah.

I just know all in all.

You know, w-we always say, you know, in my field, you know, do one thing at a time.

Right. Of course.

Yeah.

If you're doing science.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm not.

Yeah.

I'm not doing science. I'm doing.

Yeah.

Chaos.

Yeah. Well, you're doing, you know, your experiment of one, so.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

But it works. All of it together is definitely working. My body's pretty good.

So, you know, you were mentioning how it's gonna be very hard to get these things regulated. And I just wanted to point out we probably talked about this last time, but, you know, where do these chemicals come from, these plasticizers? And you probably know they're made from fossil fuel byproducts. Yes?

Yeah.

So d the forces against eliminating them are, are not only the manufacturers of the plastic, but it's also the fossil fuel industry.

Right.

So that makes it extremely difficult.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's probably one of the primary factors in why this isn't discussed because it would reduce fossil fuel consumption, which would affect oil markets, which would affect the economy.

It's big.

Yeah.

It's big.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, the rate at which plastic production is increasing is astounding, you know?

Yes.

Yeah. And there we no, no end in sight, you know?

Well, I don't think you're gonna get the government to act about this stuff. I think this has to be done on an individual level where people are aware of it and take steps to protect themselves and their family from these issues. That's my cynical view of how this is going to be played out. And I'm h really hoping I know for a fact a lot of people listened to our last conversation and made some lifestyle changes. I'm really hoping that now, with this follow-up visit, more and more people will be aware of it.

And watching the movie.

Yes. And watching the movie. And the movie's called what's it called again?

The Plastic Detox.

The Plastic Detox.

Yeah.

And where's this movie available?

On your in your house.

Everything? Right. But is it available on Amazon, Netflix?

Netflix.

It's Netflix.

Netflix.

Okay. Watch on Net Netflix is great.

Yeah.

There's so many great documentaries on Netflix. The Hidden Dangers of Plastics in Our Homes, Six Couples Embark on a Plastic Detox Within Their Homes. It Changes Their Families Forever. The Plastic Detox Explains What Microplastics and Their Chemicals Are Doing to Our Health and How We Can Take Matters Into Our Own Hands, From Hormone Disruption That's Fueling a Worldwide Fertility Crisis to Growing Rates of Cancer and Early Heart Attack and Stroke. This powerful documentary reveals the shocking science behind plastics' impact on human life.

Do you wanna see a little trailer?

Sure.

Let's watch a little.

Let's watch a little trailer. Put your headphones on. Well, you already know what ha what it says. I'll listen.

Plastic leaches a crap ton of chemicals.

Even the smallest levels of exposure can have profound effects.

Fertility worldwide is going down.

There you are.

And it is tightly linked to chemicals that are commonly used in plastic.

You have been trying to get pregnant for over 10 years now.

22 months.

Two and a half years? Say what you always call yourself.

Ah. I say, you know, Julie, I'm not a human dildo.

This is a three-month intervention where we recruited six couples who have unexplained infertility. We look at measures of semen quality. The cutoff for fertile is about 40. You're technically subfertile, infertile. So that's kinda scary, right?

Yes.

The question is, if we lower people's exposure to chemicals that are in plastic, can we change their fertility? These chemicals not only affect your fertility, they also have other health consequences.

These chemicals can contribute to early heart attacks and stroke, autism, as well as obesity.

Learning more about plastics, it's opening my eyes to how much bigger it is.

Many people think the government takes care of us, but very few chemicals are actually banned from personal care products, and over 1,100 are banned in the EU. To have a child, I believe it is a fundamental human right.

I think you'd be the best mom ever, and I really wanna see that for you.

Plastic doesn't have to come from a petroleum vapor. We can learn to.

Got out of my head.

It can change, and you can help with the change.

That's another good point that he just said right there, that plastic doesn't have to come from petroleum-based materials.

No.

And most people aren't aware of that, but you can make plastic out of plant compounds.

Yes.

Like, and it's biodegradable.

Yes.

Which is like they make a hemp plastic.

Right.

And.

Potatoes.

Yeah, potatoes. Yeah. And probably a bunch of other stuff too, right, that you can make plastic out of that doesn't have these effects.

Right.

It would be really nice if we moved in that direction, wouldn't it?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely. The plant-based plastics have the cost of raising the plants. Of course, there's that added cost, but.

Right. But does that even compare to the cost of pulling oil out of the ground and.

Yeah.

Refining it?

Right.

Then turning it into plastic through some horrific process that turns the rivers blue?

That's right.

Or whatever it does.

God knows what it does. Color turns us blue.

Right.

Just kidding.

Um, is there, um, a list of garments that people shouldn't wear? Are you aware of that, the plastic leaching garments?

Well, the only specific ones I know are because people have told me about them are the, um, sports uniforms, team uniforms.

Because they have a coating on them.

Yeah. And then the.

To make is it to make them more durable? Is that the idea?

Yeah. And, and I probably this book to die for will have more information. And I have it, and I read I'm just so busy, you know, with this right now and, and s but I'm gonna read it. And, and then, um, sports uniforms, kids' uniforms, air-airline personnel uniforms. I think uniforms, firefighters. Firefighters are big, big exposure to these chemicals too.

Right.

Yeah.

'Cause they wear those waterproof.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anything with it yeah, that's right. Anything that's waterproof, stain-proofed, just like your Teflon pans, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Barrier. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah. But I don't know any particular brands.

So I'd imagine, like, nylon tracksuits and all those different things.

Yeah.

Gotta be terrible for you. So the worst thing is.

I mean, customers customers could look for when they buy these things, they could look for PFAS-free. Just like now people know to look for BPA-free or.

Mm-hmm.

You know, if they could look at PFAS-free, then they would be avoiding a lot of this.

So go back to the top, please. It says, "The worst offenders are synthetic plastic-heavy garments that are fuzzy, coated, or very tight to the skin, especially polyester fleece, recycled polyester fast fashion, and PFAS-coated water stain repellent outerwear and activewear. Polyester fleece jackets, blankets, loungewear, extremely high microfiber shedding. One study found that polyester fleece shedding orders of magnitude more fibers per wash than other knits, which estimates around 110,000 fibers per garment per wash.

Yeah.

No. Uh, you're killing yourself. "Increased particle numbers and potential toxicity. These items are often cheaply made, shed heavily in washing, and frequently use intense dyes and finishes." Hot pink. "Tight synthetic sportswear and underwear. Yikes. These are worn for long periods directly against sweaty skin and mucous membranes, increasing opportunity for contact with microplastics and additives like antimony phthalates and PFAS finishes.

Yeah.

Coated.

Right. Whew.

Hui.

A lot of work. A lot of work, huh?

Um, what has been the response to, uh, your first of all, you're releasing your first book and then coming on podcast and talking about this thing. Um, ha-ha-has it been surprising to you? Like, what has it been like?

Um, it has been kinda surprising how much interest there is and how much, um, you know, people are taking this up. And what's great is there are a lot of nonprofits that are in this space that are getting out these messages. So it's not just me. You know, many, many nonprofits. And, um, and then there's the, um you know, there's the, the Plastics Treaty, which is worldwide. It didn't pass, but hopefully, it'll come back and maybe next time.

Right.

Not here.

Right.

So we're it's the testing is on you and me and everyone listening. Um, and I mean, we haven't really raised our hand and volunteered for that.

Well, I mean, I don't want this to happen, but I think maybe what has to happen is these companies have to get in trouble, you know?

Well, some of them have. You know, there are lawsuits, and, and that's.

Are there lawsuits against, like, outerwear, clothing, like.

I, I don't know.

Yoga pants?

I don't know, but.

'Cause yoga pants are a problem, right?

Hmm?

Yoga pants.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Those tight nylon things that a lot of the gals wear to.

Yeah. I don't know where the lawsuits are. Um, I might at some point get involved in that, but at this point, I don't know. But I know there are lawsuits and that they can be effective way to push back. And by the way, you said we, we wouldn't get a federal law, and I think that's not for a long time, but states can do it.

Hmm.

California, for example, is doing lots of good stuff on that.

What are they doing about it?

I can't name you the, the laws, but I know they're, they're very active. Um, the, um, Bonta Ron Bonta. He's a he's the district attorney attorney general of the state of California. He's very active. And, and so the states that have active, you know, pushback, able to get laws passed, um, that kinda sets the tone for the you know, for, for what's possible. But I don't see us getting federal pushback very soon.

No. It seems like industry controls the federal government.

Yeah.

More than the sel the, the health and safety concerns of the people.

Right.

Which is very disturbing, but not too surprising.

Yeah.

When you consider a lot of the other things that are allowed in this country.

Yeah.

That aren't allowed in other countries.

Right.

Like, when you show the list of the chemicals that are illegal in the EU, that are illegal in America, that's disturbing. Like, we're supposed to be number one.

Yeah.

We're number one. We're number one in chemicals.

Number one in chemicals.

Yeah.

Probably. Probably.

Um, the response when you were on this podcast, uh, was pretty shocking for me. So many people reached out to me. A lot of my friends that watched the episode were like, "I can't believe this."

You know, many?

Oh, I have no idea. It was five years ago. But quite a few of my friends that, you know, don't reach out with every episode reached out and said, "That is just nuts. Like, I can't believe this." And especially people with children.

Yeah.

And they're concerned about the development of their children or people who are pregnant who are concerned with the intake of these chemicals while they're pregnant, which has a radical effect on the child's.

Yeah.

Development.