Transcript of #2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

Joe Rogan Podcast.

Check it out.

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day.

We're up, gentlemen.

Hey, Joe.

Great to see you again, Bob.

Same here.

Long time. Joe, you are still to this day the most watched ever podcast we have ever done that's on YouTube.

That's just unreal. It's unreal.

It is unreal because it shows you how many people are just absolutely fascinated by the story. And what you guys have done in this new film is essentially recreate S-4 and using AI recreate you as a young man in these experiences that you had. And it was really excellent. Luigi, you're the one who put the film together. You figured it all out. And first of all, what was the technology that you guys used to recreate everything?

Yeah, I just want to say there's, there's about 10% AI in the film, but there's 90% Blender, and that's actually handmade CGI. So everything you see is all handmade. And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob, we went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de-aging him through that, then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment. And then in some instances at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it with a little touch of AI, but the whole thing is handmade. So the craft, the environment, The Papoose Lake, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made. And some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there. So it's not, it's, there's one of the guys that is Barry in the film is a guy called Luis Martinez that's been working with me for the past 10 years. And he laughs at it 'cause he goes, I can't believe I'm Barry, you know?

So does he look anything like Barry?

Actually, he does. He does.

That's why we chose him.

Yeah, yeah.

Where is the actual Barry now?

I don't know. You know, I kind of thought at one point, after all this happened, we would at least hear from one of those guys. But I never heard from anybody after, you know, after the initial release of all the information. Yeah.

It seems like— well, I don't know. If people are able to keep secrets for this long, It's got to be very difficult to just blurt it out. Like, you know, you're holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years. You're— it's like—

I guess these guys were lifers though. Yeah, I mean, they spent most of their time there. They spent at least 2 weeks at a time and had 1 week off, so they stayed at the base. I mean, these guys were hardcore. I had just come in on the project, you know, so I I don't know. I don't know what happened to them. I'd love to know. I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died. I've seen people track him down, you know, all the way to point to speaking to his family, and they said, yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert or something, and they showed me his gravestone and stuff. So, you know, at least they were able to track him down, but I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Rene or anybody like that.

What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film? 'Cause, I mean, essentially, it was your— direction, for lack of a better word, your description of it, you telling them exactly how everything was laid out. And then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch it?

Well, the final product— is absolutely mind-blowing because, as I've said to Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain. I mean, you know, you can describe something 100 times, and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear. But, you know, this took years. I think it was like 5 and a half years from when I first met Luigi, and he said, yeah, I can do this. And The quality kept improving to where he started showing me pictures and I went, Jesus, that's really it. It's not really it, it's really it. And I mean, it blew me away. Later on, he showed me a 3D environment where I could put goggles on and move around inside. I mean, that made the hair stand up on my arms. It was unbelievable. So I don't know if I could really describe, I don't know how that made me feel, but it felt like I was teleported back there. And that's, you know, that's when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's talent. I said, you know, I'm buying this and flew out to Canada a couple of times. I didn't have much to do with the film other than I guess a couple of times going out there and going, no, that's right.

That's the wrong color. Move this here, do that. And but those guys spent over 3 years working on it. And they never showed me anything. I'd speak to Luigi a couple times a month, and he'd always say, "Oh my God, you won't believe this." I said, "Show me." "No, it's not done yet." So I really didn't get to see anything until close to the end, but when I did, really, without trying to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes going, "That's it. That's it. You did it. Just stop.

It's perfect." Well, I had the pleasure of watching the movie with you, and sitting there with you, there was a bunch of times in the movie you were like—

Yeah, yeah.

You could tell.

Yeah. I swear I could feel that place. I could feel it watching that movie. It just— it really freaks me out because As I've said before, it's not like what I saw. It's exactly what I saw. It's perfect. It's just like Luigi was at S4 with a camera.

So it's very—

it worked.

It's a very unique documentary in that regard. And watching it with you, seeing you experience this thing, and then me trying to imagine what it's like for you. You're this young scientist who gets brought in on this thing without much explanation, and then all of a sudden you're confronted by this craft. And you, you know, the way it's broken down in the film and you get to actually see you viewing this thing and being in the presence of this thing for the first time, it's just— I could just only imagine what that must have been like for you. And it's so weird to watch you watch it again and see your wheels spin.

Yeah, yeah.

What the fuck happened to my life, man? What did they do to me? What did they make me experience? Like, what the hell?

Yeah, I really can't fill in the blanks there.

It's, uh, I want to just say that there was a time when Bob got angry at me a lot because I wouldn't show him, and he was like, come on, show me. And I said, it's not ready yet, I don't want to show you something. But at a certain point, we had to, and Bob started remembering more stuff.

Yeah, that's true. It really made a big difference when he, when he showed me some things. And, you know, walking down the corridor here and turn, oh, stop, wait, there's another door there. I mean, it was like I was going back into the facility and really brought— I mean, actually seeing it again really brought some things back that I had completely forgotten about. So that, you know—

Well, what's really fascinating is for people that don't know your story, you came up with the story, you talked to George Knapp, and was it '89?

'88. '88, '89, somewhere in there.

Late '80s, you've essentially told the exact same story all these years. And then within the last, you know, 9, 10 years, we've started to get all these reports. There was the New York Times story, there was the GOFAST video and the FLIR video, and all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model moving, right? Which kind of freaked a lot of people out with the way it rotated and turned.

Rotate, yeah, does the belly roll, faces at the bottom towards where it's want to go, and then it takes off.

And this episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform for building a website that actually looks legit and helps you stand out online. And I should know, my site, joerogan.com, is powered by Squarespace. They make it easy to lock down the right domain for your business or project, and they've got built-in privacy and security tools to keep everything protected. Head to squarespace.com/rogan to try it out for free, and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Yeah, it's exactly how you described all those years ago, which is really fucking crazy.

Well, that's— I mean, that's the way it was.

But it's just, it's crazy because you had this story way, way, way back then and everybody's like, this guy's just making things up. This is all cockamamie bullshit. And then you see those videos from these fighter jets and you're like, wait a minute, it's moving the exact same way he described. It's doing what he described in 1989.

Yeah. Yeah.

Time to take a drink.

Cheers.

Cheers. Because it's so weird. I can't— I mean, I've had so many conversations with people. And one of the things that comes up is, do you think Bob Lazar is telling the truth? And I say, look, I don't know. There's no way I can know. But he doesn't seem like he's lying. I've been around a lot of liars.

Look, nobody can know unless you're there. I'm the biggest skeptic of all. Although if you look at Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy theorist or something.

I think it says I'm a far-right podcaster.

Yeah. All right. I mean, yeah, it's crazy. But shit, I lost my train of thought now.

Well, they— that if you— like, basically, are you a conspiracy theorist? No, you don't even look at this stuff.

Well, you've had— if you have a lie, you have one lie. And it's amazing because you've told the same one.

Well, it's got— it's a pretty detailed lie.

It's also not normal. Like, normally when people lie, they get bored with the same lie and then they come up with another lie, and there's some other stories. Um, you catch them eventually. You catch them. There's some cockamamie new thing that they come up with, and it's the type of people that are that deceptive. I mean, it's just— it doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the standard model of someone.

Well, there are other people involved with it. Yeah, I mean, uh, this is for the first time Gene stuff finally is on film, you know, because when I had the, you know, the test flight information, um, it was one of the—

not one of the—

he was the first person I told about that. And, uh, you know, we were all able to go out and, and see it, and so everybody knew that I wasn't crazy. Um, it was—

and then also all the confirmation that you were being fucked with, that, you know, when you're in the gym, they would show up and open up your locked car doors and open your trunk and leave it there. So you'd go out there and it. They'd go to your house when you weren't there.

Yeah, they were even— right, they were even following George Knapp. And, and, uh, I mean, all of us, anybody that had anything to do with it at that time, yeah, uh, they were keeping eyes on.

It was, uh, not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation tactics, just letting you know, letting you know that they could touch you.

Yeah. So I, I've really worked for decades to push this out of my mind, so it's always tough to bring it back, you know, and talk about it. And it's Yeah, although it might be funny now, it wasn't funny then at all. It was a really stressful time and still is a very stressful thing for me.

I know it's so many years ago, but do you remember the thought that came in your mind when you realized that it wasn't ours?

Do I remember the thought?

Do you remember the experience? Yeah, I remember the feeling of recognizing— because initially you saw the American flag.

Yeah. When I saw saw the American flag when I first went in. The first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back, um, you know, slid my hand across it, saw the American flag, and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nuts, you know.

Um, it's ours.

Yeah, this is ours. This is a new top-secret fighter. We came up with a new propulsion system, and, uh, you know, it explains everything. Because I never believed in flying saucers. I thought people were nuts. But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying— I was trying to replace somebody, or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible. And they had two directives. One was to— Directive 1 was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost, which is exact verbatim what it was. And Directive 2 was to be able to disable this technology at a distance at any cost. And, you know, once you start thinking about that, wait, don't you guys know how the thing you built worked? And it's kind of like they left that out, that this, by the way, this isn't ours. And Barry is the guy that filled me in going, no, no, no, this is an alien craft. And we need to figure out how this works. Look at the technology here. I mean, this is decades, light years ahead of where we are. And it was a shock, really, to me.

I remember going home that night and just laying in bed and reviewing everything that everybody said that day. I really don't remember how I felt the following days, but it was just a different— it was just a different feeling.

Like the world just changed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was— I don't know. I really can't put it into words.

Well, I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine what that experience is like. And it's also very strange that they would bring you in and not specifically state to you that this is not ours. They just bring you in and just give you a directive. This is what you are trying to accomplish.

Well, they gave me a bunch of briefings. Everything was moving at a very fast pace, and I don't know why. I think I mentioned in the movie, right prior to I got there, there were Russians involved in it. You know, from what I can ascertain, there was an exchange of information. And then we discovered something, something of great importance. And of course, kicked the Russians out and just held on to that information ourselves. And there was kind of a knowledge vacuum there. There was also an accident. And I was told I was replacing someone that was injured. I believe he actually died.

There's no record of who this person was, or has anybody ever tried to figure it out?

I don't know. I don't have any names. I just know that Barry told me I'm replacing somebody that he used to work with, and he was without a lab partner for a while, so when I came in there—

How long was a while?

I don't know, but I mean, that brings up a good point. First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it was from another dimension, another time, another planet. I mean, who really knows? So I'll eventually get to answer the question here, but wouldn't you think this place would be more like the Lunar Receiving Lab where everything is white, you know, so you can see a speck of dust, there's— everything is sterile, people are being extremely careful with what they're doing, but you're not seeing that. This is in now something akin to an aircraft hangar in the middle of the desert there is dust on everything. People are taking everything nonchalantly. There's a friggin' poster about the thing, you know, there, here, poster there.

Thank you, Luigi, for getting me that poster. We gotta figure out a place for that. Put it in here somewhere.

It's awesome.

But I mean, they went to the trouble of making a poster. They actually—

I think right here.

That's a good place.

Right there. That's a good spot right there. But they, I mean, they actually cut one of the amplifiers out of the craft. So that— my point is, this is in the film as well, you could see. Yeah, but my point is, it's so nonchalant at this point. When they first had it, it had to be at that level, and they became so used to it, so familiar with it, that, you know, to them it just became like another you know, fighter aircraft or something from another country. So it's, uh, it must have been there a long time is what my point is. Because look, as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there in a hangar and be exposed to the environment and have security people walking by and people touching it. I mean, it's in an isolated, sealed, secure environment. and they were past that. So I think it had been there for a decade or decades, a long time, and these guys were intimately familiar with it, not afraid of it, you know, and knew what was going on.

So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists, that it was there, and there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out. And figuring out what it does and how to recreate it. So it just kind of sat there. And so—

I think they were making very little progress. And I think they kept going over the same road again and again. And they probably had other experts there and just didn't— and I think the reason I got hired is because I was a guy out in left field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on. I mean, the biggest distractors in the— In, you know, to me anyway, in the story, our other scientists, other physicists, well, they would have hired me because I'm the top guy in the field. Yeah, you probably are, but I think they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything. I think they were looking for somebody that just would have some radical idea and just to push the you know, the project forward because everything had stalled when I got there. And it was— I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress.

One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate, and you have to be able to share ideas, and you have to be able to collaborate. But that's not how this was run because it was so top secret. Everything was compartmentalized. Like the metallurgists weren't talking to the propulsion people who weren't talking to— if there were biologics experts, like everybody was—

Super frustrating. Super frustrating. Because I think— I don't remember exactly where that started. Again, it's 40 years ago, but I think it started with the seats. And no, it started with the actual skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material. And I wanted some information about the skin, the superstructure of the craft. And they said, no, that's restricted. What's, you know, we need a reason for you to— I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material. And what I call the seats in the craft. I still don't know if they're the seats, but they might be. I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually something else. Um, but I wanted some information on those, and that was restricted information too. There were other groups working on that, so they compartmentalized stuff so much. There was no exchange of information between any groups. I mean, you could submit a written response that your supervisor, in my case Dennis, would have to carry over, and they would have to approve, and you know, you'd get a 2 or 3 line response from the other group, but it's just, that's not how science works.

Science works on the free exchange of information, and they were just killing themselves with security, and it was really frustrating. It was terribly frustrating.

So was this a function of security people, people that are concentrating on top security don't truly understand how collaborative science works.

Yeah, that's it right there. You can stop right there. They had no idea how that works.

Because it stands to reason that whatever that thing was made out of probably in some way interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique Exactly.

That's exactly my point. And I suspected the material was an electret. You know what an electret is?

No.

Okay. You know, like a magnet, a permanent magnet is like, you know, it's a magnet. It's forever. It's a magnet. It has a magnetic field. An electret is a material that has a permanent static field to it, a static electric field to it. And I strongly suspected that the craft was made out of an electric, and I was not, because again, that's the material science guys, I was not allowed to connect that to, but that's so important to connect it to the propulsion system and how the propulsion system interacts with the amplifier or the emitters, and I just, I wasn't allowed the information I needed. So it was, I don't know, it was self-defeating is what it was.

It seems like they were treating it like a fighter jet or automobile. Like in an automobile, you have the outer area, the shell of the car, you have the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff, which is met, but then you have the propulsion system, which is the engine. And the transmission and the tires and the wheels and the suspension, but they're all not connected. They're connected because they're bolted together, but they have different functions. I think the idea or the concept, at least as I'm gathering from you, is that this thing all worked as a cohesive unit.

Right, with no physical connection between the subsystems. And all of it made out of the same material, at least on the outside. At least on the outside, all made of the same material. And the other crafts all had the same power plant in them. So that brings to mind, you know, like a, like a GM plant that makes a car with a Chevy 350 and makes, you know, a dozen different models to it, right? So that makes you think about, boy, is there a factory making these things? And, you know, your brain can just wander off in directions. But I tried to stick with just the technology.

Did you know who the metallurgists were? The people that—

Oh, I saw them. You know, I know them. And Barry, we'd go to the lunchroom. Barry would point them out, you know.

And you weren't allowed to communicate with them at all?

Oh, hell no. You have a lab partner, which in my case was Barry, and you're allowed to talk to your lab partner, but you can't talk to any other group. That has to go through a written request, has to go to your supervisor, and he'll bring it over to them, and they'll bring it back, and so on and so forth. But yeah, that's ridiculous that it slows down any progress you might be making.

Which is why they were probably stalled out for decades.

Yeah.

Did you ever expressly communicate to them that you, you theorized at least that this all could be connected? That there's something about the way the metal works?

Oh, we all knew that. We all knew that. Because we'd get requests from other you know, from other groups. And you could tell they're desperate, just like we are, and fighting against the system.

What kind of requests would you get?

Just exactly what we found out, you know, what— where is the energy being transferred here? If the reactor fires up, is there a field present around it, or is the field just absorbed into the emitter and you can touch the reactor itself and just little things like that, you know, if— and actually that was an important thing. When the reactor is operating, is it perfectly tuned, the emitter, to where it removes all the energy from the reactor and pushes it out the bottom? And the answer to that was no. I remember that as a specific request from, you know, from one of the groups. The metallurgy group is the one that we really wanted to hear from, and some of the group— I didn't— I don't even know what some of the other groups were, but how many groups were there? I, I don't know. There are only 22 people there total, including myself.

So, um, I, I would like for you to tell Joe one of the things that also interested me, because I built the craft, is how the waveguide worked with the ceiling and interior and how it blended. If you can explain, there was no telescopic—

Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the metallurgist people. The reactor that sits on the bottom of the craft has a little dome over it, and there's something that looks like a pipe that's slight. You can lift it up and take the reactor out, put the reactor in and lift it down. But you know, like a antenna works on an old walkie-talkie. It has different sections. There it is.

There's from the video.

There it is.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, you can retract the pipe, but there's no sections and it doesn't get any thicker. It just becomes smaller. And if you look underneath where the emitters hang down, They turn it and it doesn't buckle. It's a magical material. This is the basis of the craft, is really the material that it's made of. It's amazing the way it works. You can push it into a smaller volume and it doesn't change at all. It doesn't It doesn't get bigger physically. It's, um, I don't really know how to describe it.

So you're lifting the pipe up and down, but it's not going anywhere?

Look, if you had a big pipe and you push it together, it has to get thicker, right? Because the material has to go somewhere. This doesn't. Okay, it stays in exactly the same dimensions. It just becomes smaller. How?

Well, yeah, because you couldn't talk to the metallurgist, so you had no idea.

Yeah, but those guys knew how.

They did know how.

I—

well, well, they know it did it.

They know it, they know it did it, and that's their job. So I imagine they have more information than I did. Um, but that was fascinating. It really was. And the, uh, the waveguides that hold the emitters, they come down and the emitters can turn and bend. And the pipes bend and nothing changes in them.

It's—

and there's no wires or anything to make the pipe bend. I'm trying to relate it to something, but I can't think of anything to relate it to.

Well, one thing that you said that I also thought was fascinating, there's no seams. So everything looks like it's 3D printed.

Again, right, it comes down to the material.

Which at the time, 3D printers weren't real, right?

Yeah, at the time that really confused me. I said, how did they build this? It must have been built out of wax or something and then melted. Because you can't build anything without seams. And then 3D printing came into existence and you know, you could build stuff from layers up. That made sense. I know some sort of 3D printer, or they grew it, you know, in some— of course, it's not a crystalline fashion, but I don't know how that was fabricated, but it was fabricated different than anything that we have. I don't even think it was 3D printed.

And so you never got any inkling or any understanding of what the metal was? What, what kind of an alloy? What it consisted of?

All I can say, it was cold to the touch because the, you know, when I, when I touched it. But, um, I can't say it was— if it was a ceramic or— I'd say it was metal because it was cold, um, because it looks like metal. And this is— yeah, it looks like metal.

Does that— this is the Designs by Perry, um, version of it. Does that How much does that look like it?

No, that's 100%. That's it.

Yeah, it's got to have the, uh, the first ripple supposed to be black.

Yeah, right. Yeah, so Luigi has gone over this.

I mean, I've built this thing, so, uh, the—

there's an insulator ring, right?

Jimmy, show what it looks like in the film if you could show one of the images.

I don't— I was pulling off the trailer and I don't—

they might not—

they've been holding that back for Oh yeah, on the trailer there's a ring.

Yeah, there's, there's a ring around it, and we measured the voltage on the craft and there was a high voltage on it. Um, and above that ring there is—

this is not a good shot. There's probably a— this is the original trailer. It's the new trailer that would actually— yeah, that one there, and you'll get to see it right There. Actually, right after this. It's actually before this, I believe. You're going to see the craft. And if you see, there's a black, right? There's like a black line. It's the first ripple. That's actually not metal.

Yeah, we call that the— yeah, there it is. That's a good shot. We call that the insulator ring because below that there's a high voltage present on the craft all the time. And above that, there isn't.

I would imagine that your life has like two completely different chapters— is before this and after this. Whereas like, once you see it, the whole rest of your life is now going to be very different. And you are— you were in its presence for how long? Would you work there for?

I don't know, maybe 6 months or so.

So for 6 months, you're around this thing, and I would imagine it has to occupy your thoughts 24 hours a day.

Well, at the time it did, for sure. It's actually 3 stages to the life. It's before it, during, and after it. Before it was just my life. During was when it happened. And then the after part of my life is almost trying to dismiss it. You know, to just go on.

Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time. I mean, you did the George Knapp interviews, you talked about it a little, you made some videos explaining things and how things worked.

No, I don't, I don't really like public attention, and I don't really like doing interviews, as you probably know, you know, but I know there's people that thrive on that stuff, but, you know, I felt privileged to be part of the project, but it left me with an insatiable appetite. Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone. Look, even when I was there in the '80s, they were talking about moving the project at that time. So I really— I'm dying to know, is it still there? Has it moved on? So did they split it up and move it to other places? Um, yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to, uh, the South Pacific, like in Kwajalein or something, but they said the expenses were so great they couldn't do that. But they wanted it away from everybody, and they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada, you know, by south of Area 51. But that's the best place they had at the time and the most affordable. And of course now with, you know, budgets being so tight, who knows where it is.

Who knows if budgets are tight for this though.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

I mean, they did say at whatever expense, figure this out.

Yeah, they were serious about that. We don't really care what it was. So like the original Apollo program. You know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts and if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person and take their stuff if they needed it. And, you know, they had an unlimited budget. I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything and—

or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology.

There you go.

which therein lies the problem, is that they're dealing with something that's not possible with— like, you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989.

No, but that's what they wanted to do. And really thinking about that now, I'm not sure— I'm not exactly sure these guys should be allowed to do that. This is really powerful technology. And the world has really changed. I mean, we have a lot of crazy people doing stuff now, and nonsense transmits through the population at the speed of light. And, you know, I don't know, this can be a very powerful world-conquering technology. And look, for 40 years, I think I've said this before, for 40 years All the people in control of this information have all agreed to keep it quiet. And these aren't idiots. These aren't idiots for 40 years. You have a line of people that all have agreed, no, let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. There has to be a reason why. And if they all agreed to that, maybe I'm the asshole. No, really. Maybe they're right.

And maybe you would have figured that out if you kept working for them.

Yeah, I don't know, but I'm increasingly thinking I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe this is supposed to be just kept quiet.

Yeah, but that doesn't ring true because I don't think it's ever healthy if small groups of individuals have information that would change our understanding of where we are.

Yeah, there's that. There's—

it's— I don't think they— I don't think they deserve it. I don't think it's right. I don't think it makes any sense.

I think, you know, I mean, really, but really think about it. What if it's something that's really dramatic?

Like, how so? Like, what do you think would be like—

I don't know, maybe. I mean, what if it's— I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like You know, like we raise cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just going to be food. What if it's something like that? What if we're just like, you know, a population of creatures that are just to be consumed in some way?

I don't know if we're to be consumed, but I do think we are—

Not physically consumed like eaten, but I mean—

I think we have a task. And I'm more and more convinced as time goes on that we were engineered. I don't think we came about as a normal evolutionary process like all the other animals.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I really agree with that.

There's a lot of people that think that. It just doesn't make sense objectively. I mean, without seeming like a kook or someone who buys into conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on Earth. Why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, do— can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter? We're a weird animal. We're very strange. Like, we don't seem to have normally adapted to our environment with the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity and electronics and flight and travel, we're so beyond everything else that evolved. Whereas every other animal, predator or prey, plant eater or meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem. And then you have us, which is like, almost like an invasive species. Like invasive species destroy ecosystems, like, because they don't belong there. Well, that's kind of what we do. Like, we suck all the fish out of the ocean, we pollute the rivers with our technology, you know, mess up underground water systems with fracking and drilling. We, we're like an invasive species in a lot of ways.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're really weird.

I can't argue with that at all.

Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. Um, so Tim Burchett has recently been talking about this and that he can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said, you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen if the things that I've seen have released. Yeah, he said, we just needed to close— disclose it all. I'm sick of it. Uh, oh well, I was briefed, and I will tell you this, I was briefed last week on an issue, or excuse me, 2 weeks ago, and it would have set the earth on this country would become unglued. I think if they would have heard all that I heard—

well, this is what I was talking about. Yeah, if, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down going, oh, look what we discovered, you know, here, have some information. And you know what, what if it's not that? What if all the information is bad?

But what would be bad? Like, have you ever thought about this? Tried to like play it out to its natural conclusion? Like what do you think the scenarios could be that's bad?

I don't know, everything that we're— Look, we view ourselves at the top of the food chain. What if we're not anywhere near there?

I don't think we are.

Okay, what if we're just consumables?

Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees are consumables, right? They're not at the top of the food chain either. Right, but—

No, but there's— I would consider them substantially lower than we are. Right. Like my good friend that died, John Lear, who had a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean, he used to come over and tell us that, you know, on the moon there was a soul sucker. And when you— He did. He said this. You better give me that bottle.

Have another drink before you explain this one. Um, oh boy, a soul sucker. John Lear was an eccentric individual. Yeah, kind of sad I never met him, man.

He, he was recording evidence.

He was—

what, Terence McKenna talking about the moon?

Yeah, yeah. No, and he'd give me pictures of these giant antennas on the moon. And, um, in fact, I'll tell you a story. He, um, You know, he was an accomplished pilot, had many world records and things of that, you know, part of the Lear family that his father invented autopilot, the 8-track tape, all kinds of stuff. And, but he, John Lear was a loose cannon. At the time, he'd fly from Las Vegas and shuttle L-1011s, which are giant planes, back and forth. And he'd say, you know, be kind of lonely, he goes, "Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis tonight?" He'd call me like at 9 o'clock at night and say, "Well, no, not really." "Come on, come on, fly with me. Just put on a suit and, you know, come to so-and-so." And I'd go to McCarran Airport and, you know, go there. And yeah, I'm going to tell everybody you're, you know, an inspector from the FAA. And I went, okay, great. You know, and I get on the plane and they say, you know, just act like you're, you know, going to kick everyone's ass. So I go on there and I'd sit in the— they fold down a jump seat behind the plane and I just sit there looking at everybody and God, all this stuff is so illegal.

And You know, get on there and fly. And, you know, John would take— and the L-1011 was a pretty advanced plane at the time. This was in the '80s. And, you know, John would be smoking his pipe. He'd take off, he'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe, and he'd fall asleep. And I'd just be, you know, hanging out there. And, you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up. And, you know, be smoking his pipe and, you know, playing with land itself. At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons, and he said, yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here. And I think they had an engineer also on another panel. I don't quite remember, but I was there with my wife. There were people on board, and he'd say, "Hey, come on here and take the wheel," and he'd get the captain of the plane, which, you know, I think my wife was in her 20s at the time, and just sit her down and say, "Yeah, hold on to it and, you know, just keep correcting," and he just let her fly the plane, which is insane.

And, you know, the copilot would just look over, and I remember looking over at, I think, the engineer that looked at the gages, and he just put his head down. Pretended like nothing was happening. And that was just one time. Another time he was ferrying an L-1011 going by Roswell. At the time I was living in New Mexico, and they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid, that the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that. And he was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell— just took the plane and landed at the Roswell Airport, the whole 10-11, got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station, gave me a call on the pay phone and said, "Hey Bob, I'm coming over." "Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico?" "Yeah." And he drove up, taxi would drop him off at the house, he'd walk— he walked in, he went, "Boy, I'm tired," and he just lay down on the couch and go to sleep. And I said, what are you doing here? What's going on? Oh, I just dropped a plane off. They're not paying me. And that's it.

But I mean, John Lear was such like a loose cannon. He was a great friend to have, but he had no bullshit filter. If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information, or if he had a psychic come up from, you know, the neighborhood and give him all kinds of information, he'd put them in the same category, you know. And so he really did have useful information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed up with nonsense. Right. And sometimes he would just really lean into that nonsense. Like, he was convinced that the sun wasn't hot and there were people living inside. And I used to die laughing. I went, you are insane. I said, you can't prove it's hot. Yes, I can. You know, just go outside, you know, on a hot day, you know. And, and, you know, and John said, that's not the sun. That's just the, the sun's atmosphere that's on fire. And I said, you're just crazy. But we got along and he knew that I, I thought he was crazy. But the thing is, a lot of people did come to him and give him good information.

Anyway, I don't remember.

That's the thing. That's the thing about some people. Some people will tell you nonsense and then they'll tell you true things. And it's difficult to accept that true things also come from people that say nonsense.

Right.

Like, just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, this other thing. And you've got to be able to discern. You've got— like, I talk to a lot of people that say a lot of kooky things that don't make any sense, but then they'll say something that rings true. And it's difficult because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche and of those kind of people, because there are kind of people that have very loose nets.

You're counting on their filter working like yours. Yeah, and it doesn't. No, it doesn't.

But some good stuff gets in there and you go, hold on, what'd you just say?

Right.

Tell me that again. How does that one work?

Yeah, you can't really discount people because somebody comes up with some absolute nonsense.

Right.

It just means their filter is defective.

Right. Which is also the reason why they're willing to entertain things that are outside of the normal spectrum. Right. So like they might have actual real useful information, but it's wrapped up in there with Bigfoot.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But so the soul catcher thing.

Oh yeah, that's where I was going, the soul catcher. So, um, I remember him sitting and I think he was telling my wife Joy the story because I walked in on it. He said, yeah, there are these giant antennas and when you die Your soul goes up, and I think he said the Grays, you know, this alien race, set up this soul catcher, and that's what this whole thing is about. And as you die, it sucks your soul in, and they use it in some way. And it's not where your soul is supposed to go. They just like set some sort of intercept.

Did he say where your soul was supposed to go?

No.

No, no, he was just more really into the Soul Catcher.

Well, that was one of the weirder things about some of the documents that you had at least been alerted to when you were on the base, and one of them being that humans are containers.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah.

And which the likely conclusion is containers of souls, if a soul is a real thing, whatever.

That's what you would think, right?

I mean, that's what I thought.

Yeah, but I It's just— I would prefer to believe that that's not true, um, but maybe it is. I just—

they—

I don't know. As Barry said, you know, they mix absolute nonsense in there. So if they get— if you— and it's unique to each person. So if you give out any information and they go, 'We heard some stuff about soul catchers.' 'Oh, we know that came from Lazar.' You know, so, um, that's just a way where they can direct where it, where it came to.

But then the problem is like decades and decades, generations, generations of people working there. How many people know what the real truth is and how many people know?

I don't know. I mean, there must be— yeah, there must be a group of people that really have the pure information of what's going on, I would assume, but not necessarily. I would think there has to be there has to be a group of people that know what's going on. And who are those people? You know, and to me, like I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of questions for me, you know?

Right. Like, what would be your questions for you if you met you?

Yeah. Now, questions for me are people that ask me over decades the same, same questions. You know, why is it the Navy The Navy paid me. I always said the Navy— everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force because, you know, back in the '60s and '70s, you know, this Project Blue Book and the Air Force and all that, but, um, everything associated with this was the Navy. So, and in these days you hear some of these new types of craft that are Transmedium. Yeah, you, you hear the word transmedium and, you know, David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with the Tic Tac. And, you know, things are under the water. And, you know, supposedly the, the craft that— the sport model was an archeological recovery, and that itself was underwater. So what is What is the deal with the water? I mean, it's, it, it's by far the biggest medium of the planet. I mean, if you want to hide people down there, almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean as long as you do it deep enough and away from people. So yeah, number one is what's the deal with the ocean?

That's probably the the number one question, because there's a ton of sightings where people see things come out of the water and go into the water.

Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.

Well, it just— in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space, if they— if whatever that thing is really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space-time bubble.

Yeah, but maybe it's not space. Maybe it's not space. Maybe, maybe it's time. Maybe it's another dimension. There's, there's really no limits. If you can start manipulating physics in that way, um, you can bend time. You can open doorways into other dimensions. So maybe it has nothing to do with going— I Look, we all want it to be like Star Trek, right? You know, because Star Trek is really understandable, right? You go out there, you fly to another planet, you meet the people there, you go to another one. Well, these guys are happy, those guys aren't, you know, and it all makes perfect sense. I don't really think it's like that. Look, you know, if you look in history, especially, you know, United States history, any time a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys. Never. We never come over and go, oh, we just want to teach you guys everything that we know. No, no, it's like, we're gonna rape all your women, take all your stuff, and then just kill you. Use your resources. Yeah, right. And just consume everything you want. That's just always the way it goes.

Now, maybe that's just what humans do, but I would be concerned that's what all life does.

Well, we are territorial primates, and that makes sense that that's what we do. The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the Grays, they seem to be genderless, and they seem to have no muscle at all. They— and they seem to have enormous heads. And the stories, at least the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures, is that they communicate in some way telepathically.

Yeah.

If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like all the things that are attached to being a human being— ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources— all those things are territorial primate instincts. And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Theo, we were talking about like what's happening to people's bodies is that people are slowly— we're consuming microplastics and phthalates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system. Our testosterone's dropping, right?

Right.

All this stuff like leads you to say, well, where does this go ultimately? Like, well, how many more people are autistic now than were before? It's 1 out of 12 boys in California now. Used to be 1 out of 10,000 just a few decades ago. Like, we're moving into this very weird direction without us recognizing it.

Wait, let me stop you there. It's 1 out of how many?

1 out of 12 boys in California are diagnosed autistic now.

But do you think that might be the way they're diagnosed?

No, no, I think it's exposure. I think it's exposure to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins.

You think that too?

I think that.

It's not just me. There's tons of studies, and a lot of buried studies too.

I mean, if that's accurate, that's frightening.

Yeah, well, it is. It can't be just diagnosed because, I mean, I know so many people that have nonverbal autistic kids where I didn't know anybody that had nonverbal autistic kids when I was younger.

Well, You know, I mean, back in the '60s and '70s, there was no— there were no kids with ADHD. Kids that were like that were just assholes.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I think that's still the case. I don't think ADHD is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real excuse to give people medication. I think ADHD is essentially a superpower. What ADHD is allows you to concentrate on things that you really enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on things you don't enjoy. I think I have it. You know, and I think I'm very fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and medicated, or wasn't, or I was born in the right time when they weren't doing that as much.

No, I actually, I'll stop you there and say I agree that that's a superpower too, because it's very unusual. I can, yeah, yeah.

If I find a thing that I like, I can lock in and concentrate on it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no food. All I need is like water or coffee and I'm locked in.

I locked in for 4 and a half years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

I don't think— I think what ADHD is, you're taking kids, you're putting them in a completely unnatural environment, you're making them sit down, they don't want to sit down, they're very active and energetic, you're making them study things by very unenthusiastic teachers, they don't want to pay attention, they're fucking off in class because they're completely bored, and then you're saying, that kid's got a problem, we have to diagnose them. And then what do you give them? You give them Adderall. And all of a sudden the kid's locked in because they're on fucking speed.

Yeah.

And I just think—

Yeah, but if you focus in and let them do what they're interested in—

Give that kid a video game. Watch him play it for fucking 10 hours with no food. Because that's what happens. Because that's something they're actually engaged with. It's not that they can't be focused on anything. They just don't focus on things they enjoy. And we want to turn people into nice little factory workers. And the only way to do that is you got to get a kid to comply. You gotta get a kid to pay attention.

Follow the rules. We're on the same channel.

It's a really great point.

I don't believe that ADHD is a real thing. I just think there's some people that are wired differently and they should pursue different things in life. The difference between that and autism is very different. Autism is, especially when it happens almost directly after multiple vaccinations. There's a lot of them they point to, particularly the MMR vaccine, but there's quite a few. When you look at the schedule of vaccines and how it ramped up and it completely correlates correlates with the ramping up of the diagnoses of autism. But without casting aspersions or getting into some anti-vaccine conversation—

Wait, you just did.

I know I did, but what I'm saying is, but ultimately the human race is moving into a very weird place. So I had a conversation with Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who is— she studies environmental endocrine disruptors. So various toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system. And from the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and '60s, you see a direct correlation between the dip in testosterone rates amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility, and then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint. So one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals in particular, when you see a child, a baby mammal, the difference between a male and a female is easily recognized by the size of the gap between their anal hole and where their genitals are.

But that could just be correlation. You know, it's like—

no, no, no, no, no, no, I'll explain why it's not. Because when they've done studies where they've used phthalates, particularly phthalates, okay, and they've introduced them specifically, purposely into certain mammals and rodents, their taint shrinks.

Hmm.

And their taint shrinks and their penises— this penis size shrinks. And there's studies on alligators where alligators, when they live in polluted rivers, they have smaller penises. And she, she talked about all this and all this. These are endocrine disruptors that are in the environment that are doing something that reduces fertility and it changes the way the human biology functions and it makes men more feminine and it makes women less fertile. Well, ultimately, you look at the Grays, what do they look like? Yeah, they look like they have no genitals. They look like they have no sex. They have— that might be where biology has to go to transcend away from our territorial primate biology, our territorial primate biology that is insistent on war and violence.

And right. And we think this is the place to stay.

Exactly.

And it may not.

It may not be. It may be completely non-beneficial to all life.

Right.

Right. That we have to transcend that. And what we are transcending it, whether we like it or not. And what I was saying is that I don't know I don't know if it's a bug. I think it might be a feature of evolution, that our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us from being these hulking, hair-covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that could fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep.

Right.

It seems like if you extrapolate and you naturally take that further, well, what do you get? You get really skinny things with no muscles and giant heads.

My, my take also, and I do agree with that, is what I find out— what I find sometimes really concerning is how fast that's moving. So, it's not just a question of like, is this actually— this is probably a thing, but it's moving so incredibly fast. If I look at my father's generation or my grandfather's generation and my generation, I mean, it's similar, but now it's moving so fast. I do agree with what you're saying, and I'm thinking if it's moving so fast, there could be a natural component to it, but there's an intentional component, right?

If you wanted to do something to a race to change it, like think about what we did with wolves, right? All dogs are wolves.

Yeah, right.

I have two dogs that are the furthest fucking thing from wolves you could possibly imagine.

Is that Marshmallow?

Marshall.

Marshall.

He might be a marshmallow. Marshall, who's a golden retriever, is the sweetest dog of all time. And I have another dog named Charlie who's a King Charles Cavalier Spaniel who is even further from a wolf than Marshall. He's just a cute little fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no killer instincts whatsoever. That used to be a wolf, right? But what happened? We softened them to the point where there was something compatible with our modern life, with households and families and babies and Yeah, we made them safe, and that's happening to people. It's happening to people whether we like it or not. We could attribute it to all these different factors. Oh, it's a problem. We have to remove these things from the environment. This is what's going on. Maybe, or maybe we just look at the overall picture. There seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology that human beings have. If you looked at us from afar, if you weren't part of the human race and you're just studying us, what does this species do? Well, makes better things, makes better things all the time, constantly. You know, I look, I have an iPhone 16 here.

It's not as good as the iPhone 17. iPhone 17 is better. Why don't you get an iPhone 17?

Right.

You know, it just like keeps going. It never stops. It never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get stronger. Your cars get faster. Your computer does more cores, does processing, video editing so much quicker. Everything moves faster and better. We keep making better things. We never stop and say, you know what? Society right now, we have a lot of problems. The problems that we don't have are technology. Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're living in right now. Let's just stop making new things and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrate on educating people, concentrate on counseling for troubled young people. No, no, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guarantee do. We make better things. We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes. Everything we do, we make things better.

And I'll— and I'll— sorry, I have to add, we do that and we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now. Think about it. We make better things, but we make them so that you have to buy the better thing after.

Right. Engineered obsolescence.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's also important.

Yeah, it is. Because then it also— human beings have this very bizarre desire for materialism. Like, what— why would a thing with a finite lifespan want to accumulate objects? Like, I know people that are in their 80s that collect things. Like, what are you fucking doing with that stuff? Yeah, yeah, you're gonna die. You have maybe like 10 summers left on Earth, and here you are collecting stamps or cards.

Yeah, no, no, I've gone through that.

It's weird.

Yeah, I mean, at some point you You have to bypass the accumulating stuff, right? Part of life.

But materialism ensures a constant fueling of innovation because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff is that you're going to make a better version. Like, I don't care how good your Mercedes is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Better.

It has new features. It's a new thing. And so it's like all built into the human psychology and also to this thing that I said. Like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do? It makes better things. What do sharks do? They eat things. They just swim around. They can't even stop swimming. They eat things. What do people do? They, they really just make better things. They go to war. Why do they go to war, really? They go to war so they can control resources, so they have more money, so they can make more things. And better things, and also the amount of innovation that is in warfare, in war weapons, in war fighting.

Yeah, that's actually critical.

Yes!

To keep the system going, yeah.

Well, ultimately all that does, all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems to the point where ultimately we say Oh, for the survival of the race, we're going to have to figure out how to reproduce non-biologically.

When I first got involved in—

Yeah, it's something to ponder, right? Yeah, it's something to ponder because we're so wrapped up in who we are. We're so wrapped up in— Look, I love being a person. I love living in Texas. I love driving an American car. I love all those things. But what does that mean? Like, what is that? What is that? You know, these are just weird identity points that you connect with whatever this species is. But if you just could just have an above view, you'd look down and go, what are we doing?

Yeah, that's a good question. That's a good question.

Yeah, like, how far are we going and how fast are we going there?

We're going pretty fucking fast. And now with AI, I think we're going way faster than we even understand. Because with Claude, I mean, they think that the Claude AI, the engineers, they think it's sentient already. It just doesn't have a physical body to move around.

AI is going to kill us. Everybody agrees with that. There's no question.

I don't think it's going to kill us. You know what I think it's going to do? I think it's going to prevent us from breeding. I think it's going to let us die off.

No, it's going to kill us.

But I think we're going to willingly go with it because we're going to get like mates, like ex machina. We're gonna just— something that tastes good.

As soon as they come out with a female robot, uh-huh, yeah, that's sexually attractive, it's over.

Yeah, game over.

Game over. There's just gonna be no more babies and we're just gonna die out.

Yeah, so, or integrate. And I think it's much more likely that we integrate, and that's where you get the Grays. I think that what the Grays are is a combination of technology and biology. And if you just, if you just go from very well chimp to caveman to gray, you go, oh, I see where that's going. Chimp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow-moving, weak, modern human, grays.

Like, I've always leaned into what Barry told me because it's the only information I had. That the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system 30-some-odd light-years away. And, you know, again, it was just like a Star Trek thing. They came over here for whatever reason, but that information may not be true, right?

That might— information might be one of those things they put— I mean, that's nonsense.

Again, if it's— if it has to do with time, I think From what George has told me, Jacques Vallée and some, you know, other really credible researchers have said that these are people either from another dimension or another time, or maybe they're us from the future, right? You know, just coming back to interact with us in some way, make sure we don't fuck everything up irreparably. Yeah, but it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job.

Well, maybe fucking things up somewhat is also part of the plan. Maybe that actually has to take place.

I mean, holy cow, look at the— look at the way things are going right now.

Holy cow, exactly.

Things are off, totally off the rails.

But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is, that we start making meaningful changes. And implement AI as government.

That's a dangerous thing.

Exactly. But is it as dangerous as Iran getting nukes?

I don't know.

Is it as dangerous as a global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not Iran.

Iran's not getting nukes. I mean, they never— they— never mind. I don't want to get into political stuff.

No, you could. You could. Look, if you gave Iran the technology to get nukes, they would take it.

Everyone has— any physicist has the technology. To get nukes.

Right.

I mean, the difficulty is actually making the material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's where you can make a weapon and, and stop there.

Right. It's not like they would be the only people with the weapon. Pakistan, India, North Korea.

But that doesn't make you have a weapon. It just gives you a shortcut to it. And Making a weapon from there and being able to deliver a weapon, you know, to 4,000 miles away, good luck with that. That's a big deal.

So, um, but they're in communication with China, who has that.

They're in communication with North Korea. Then they don't need to enrich uranium or do anything. They just, can you give me a missile?

And right, but wouldn't they rather make their own? But that's not even the point.

Rather make their own. What? Why would you do that? Would you rather make your own car or just somebody give it to you? No. Why? Why would— why would you do that?

You've got a buddy that'll just give you one because you'd want to be self-sufficient. You'd want to have your own. You don't have to rely on someone.

No, you can always do that. You can always do that.

Okay.

I don't think they're ever— they were ever gonna— they're gonna absolutely make a weapon now, right? Because we're, you know, kicking their ass.

I—

as everyone has learned, I guess you have to have nuclear weapons now to— right, you know. But this is a really bad situation.

Oh, it's a horrible situation. Yeah, but my point is, why is this situation taking place? The situation taking place is because human beings suck, right? We suck in how we interact with each other. Yeah, we suck. We suck because we're territorial primates with weapons of mass destruction.

Can't we just all get along?

Well, right.

What is the way to stop that from ever happening? Well, one, you will let a catastrophe unfold and then you offer a solution to make sure these catastrophes never unfold again. Well, what's the best solution? Well, we have something far smarter than people that will take over control of resources and governments.

AI.

AI.

Yeah.

This is Colossus. You ever seen the movie Colossus? No.

I've got to watch it.

Well, that's a merit against you. When was that movie made?

Okay.

The movie Colossus was a 1960s or '70s movie, and it's about, you know, the scientist makes deep inside this mountain a computer to take over the defense of the United States. And, you know, they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain or something similar to it, and, you know, they flip the switch and they went, okay, we're protected, we're in good shape. And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, wow, the computer's really performing better than we expected. And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing, and the computers want to communicate together. And, you know, they start communicating, and then the United States goes, well, they might be giving our secrets away, so we better, you know, cut the communication line. And the computers freak out and they go, well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs, you know, at everybody, and they launch weapons and, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage. But it's kind of like a trap.

It's kind of like a trap. Yeah, we go that way, it could trap us.

It's exactly a trap.

Well, you know, in simulated war games, AIs use—

oh, they say 98% of the time. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because I— crazy, why wouldn't they? Because I mean, look, the goal is to win, right? And we're going to present you with the scenario. And they go, okay, nuke them. You know, and why wouldn't you pick that? You're going to start with slapping them in the face?

Why is it better to just bomb them over and over and over again until you achieve the same amount of deaths?

That's the slap in the face. Nuke them. It's over with. We can move on from there.

Right.

So, yeah.

Well, you think about what happened in Gaza. Like, you look at the leveling of all those buildings, the mass destruction.

It's terrible.

It looks like a nuke. Yeah, it looks like one nuke instead of thousands of missiles and bombs is one, but it's not, right?

In terms of the amount of damage you could do instantaneously, because, I mean, because we can detect a nuke.

Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to where they discussed— because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down all the weapon systems.

No, I actually know nothing about that. Um, most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that I've heard, I, I don't know anything about. I, I've just looked at it.

That's so fascinating because you're the most prominent figure in all of UFO.

I was telling him yesterday.

Yeah, but I, I, I, I really, I really only like to talk about what I know about.

Right, of course.

And I've heard, I mean, I've heard other stories, but I've never heard them officially. I don't know if they're really real.

Um, what's one of the things that makes you most credible? Because you're not a UFO, I guess. But I mean, yes, it does with me, because when people are like way too into it, they want to believe too much, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I, I don't know.

Do you know who these people are?

Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill.

Okay, well, so you know, yeah, they were the first abductees.

I mean, to me, they're I don't know who first introduced those to me, and I looked them up. And, you know, people say, do you believe them? And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because, look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing you want to do is be recognized as a mixed-race couple, right?

I mean, right, and go public.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, holy cow, they would hate you. Yeah, a Black person and a white person that were, you know, in any kind of relationship. But, um, yeah, they did that crazy story. Yeah.

And you hear that.

And actually, on top of that, I have a connection. Yeah, because Barry said they're from the Zeta Reticuli star system and I believe it's Betty. Betty Hill drew a map of the Zeta Reticuli star system and said this is part of their roots.

Whoa.

But did you know that?

You didn't know that?

I don't remember that.

Yeah. Okay.

If you remember it from what you said from—

Okay. But if you look up Betty and Barney Hill, she said, I think, I don't know, I can never get this stuff right. They show her a map and they say, well, this is a map. She wanted to know why they were here, what's going on. They showed her a map. Am I right? They showed her a map and, uh, they said, do you, do you understand this? And she said no. And they said, well, why should we tell you anymore? And, uh, well, I don't know, maybe you could—

something like that. But they, they showed her this star map, you know, and she obviously—

look at that. Yeah.

Under hypnosis, Betty Hill describes a map she was shown by the leader aboard the ship. Later, she sketched it. She said she was told told the heavy lines marked regular trade routes.

That's right.

And the broken lines recorded various space expeditions. The following year, the map seen at right was published in the New York Times. Mrs. Hill, struck by the similarity between the Times map and her sketch, then added the corresponding names.

Yeah.

And it ended up being the Zeta Reticuli binary star system, which was really interesting. And I remember when I first heard about Bob's story back in 1989, and he said Zeta Reticuli. I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw. So that made me also question, is that real in that document? Did, did these guys really come from there? You know, because it was mentioned in 1968, right? So why would the government, the U.S. Navy, write that in there? That would correlate to something that we already kind of knew I think that was a purposeful disinformation to disinform someone. I think so.

But why?

Maybe it's true. Yeah, go ahead. We'll pause right here and use the restroom. We'll be right back, folks.

I really gotta go. Yeah, yeah, sorry.

No worries, no worries. We'll be right back. We were talking about this whole Zeta Reticuli thing. So when you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things. The idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kind of silly if the universe is populated by all these things.

I don't know, does it?

That's it, kind of, kind of.

I mean, the universe is really big. Do you think everybody can find this place?

I mean, yeah, I would imagine, um, it's like spots that you visit visit, like, you know, there's Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt, there's, you know, sub-Saharan Africa. It's a bunch of different places where people go, you know, just humans on Earth. And I would imagine if you have an understanding of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably stages where things reach certain levels. And if you are a—

But they're far apart, right? They're far apart. I mean, one could be in this quadrant of the Milky Way galaxy and they reach that point where they can travel and explore. And there's a far distant point where another civilization can do that. And I mean, really, do you think there are that many? I don't think there are that many civilizations visiting us. There's certainly— there's no doubt that there's one. From somewhere, another planet, another time, another dimension, whatever it may be. Someone else is here. We're not the top, you know, of the pyramid. No, we're absolutely not there. There's no question.

Well, I think if you got technology that— say, let's just say the Grays. Let's say the Grays are real. Let's say they fly around these little crafts. Why would we assume that it stops there? Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than them, but they also are completely undetectable?

Well, if you want to view the universe as infinite, then it never stops.

It scales out.

There's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and it never stops.

I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement, and she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is is limited by what our current technology is and our current understanding of what space and time actually are. Absolutely. What she was saying is there might not be— we might at one point in time, given enough time, thousands of years or whatever, be able to instantaneously travel anywhere. And that just how quantum, subatomic particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand, even at far spooky action at a distance, right?

As Einstein said, right?

That we might eventually get to a point where that's how travel works. That's instantaneous travel everywhere.

I think we just have hints of these technologies. Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on, and how they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe. But, uh, that may be nothing. There, there may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that, you know, these crafts, these people, or these civilizations just utilize. So, um, Of course.

I mean, if you just stop and think about going from Morse code to a cell phone in a relatively short period of time historically, you go to the difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology, what's available. The difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive.

Yeah, right.

It is a massive, crazy change. Right? So 2026 to 2226, who fucking knows what we're talking about?

Right.

Especially when you have sentient AI, you have nuclear power plants that are controlling sentient AI that are fueling them and giving them resources. I mean, you really have no limit to where this goes. You scale out 1,000 years. You scale out 2,000 years.

You really can't scale out 1,000 years. Right. It's impossible. Even at 100 years, it's way—

Yeah.

Too much. Way more than we would have ever considered.

Also, it's exponential, right? Right.

That's why you can't scale out to 1,000 years.

And if you think it's exponential now, imagine when you have AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is what's happening with ChatGPT-5. It's essentially made by ChatGPT-4.

Now, AI is absolutely the death of us. There's no question.

Well, we're certainly going to become obsolete in terms of our thinking.

If we're obsolete in terms of our thinking, we're obsolete.

Yeah.

I mean, all AI needs is hands, right?

I think we integrate. That's what I think happens.

Yeah.

It's a scary— and that's, yeah, I was gonna say, and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought because it's like, we're gonna integrate. I think it's inevitable. I think you're right about that. We're just going there. It's not like, even if you and I are not going to actually do it, somebody will, and it's going to integrate because other people will, and it's going to happen. But it's still the same primate. We're still the same human.

Sort of, but we already have problems with joints, and so we replace them with fake ones. We, you know, take titanium knees and, you know.

Yeah, but they don't work as good.

They don't for now. Yeah, but before, they used to not work at all. Like, you know, I've met people that had surgeries in the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh my god, they're crippled for life. Even though they put your knee back together again, it's still destroyed. Mm-hmm. You know, you get a knee surgery today, 6 months later you're 100%.

Now, I'd love to know the future.

Yeah, well, it's kind of—

I'd love to know.

Well, that is— so one of the things I want to talk about is the, the actual— the generator, this thing that works on this element that bombards it with radiation. How did you guys figure out what the function of it was and what it did? So when you're first introduced to this craft and you see this, this dome, the reactor, the reactor that's covering this, this thing that's generating this power. What, what was, what was the introduction to it? How'd they explain it?

The introduction was, was way before me, um, and that's where the guy prior to me either got hurt or killed. So they determined that this was the power source. And at some point, they decided to take that out to the nuclear test site because they wanted to cut into it. They x-rayed it. They, they only found a small tube that went around it. They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on. So at some point, and, and Barry made this somewhat clear that they cut into the reactor while it was running, or while it was under load, I should say, and the reactor exploded. That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced, but it produced the, the base gravitational wave or base energy that provided— that propelled the craft, that provided the craft the propulsion. I mean, when they removed it, the craft didn't work. When they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it. So they determined that was the power source. That's at the point that I was introduced into into the project.

So when you say gravitational wave, is that for lack of a better term, or is it something that's measured? Is it—

no, it's, it's for lack of a better term. Like, there's nothing— I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with like poles and push them together and they repel, but you can't take your hands ever and push on something and they repel them. That's a force field, right? That's science fiction stuff. But that's what this did. And this produced a field that repelled the craft from the ground.

Did you try to touch it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When you try to push it, what did you feel?

An elastic field. You can push down, but you can't get close to it. The closer you get to it, the, the more it pushes back. So you, you can—

like, how much distance between you and the actual thing?

I mean, I would say about 6 inches or so, maybe about 9 inches, which is about a span. And no, it's— at some point you, you can't push back on it at all. But the important thing is, if you have a magnet, a little disk magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet magnet and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right? Yeah, because it's pushing on it. But the craft didn't. The reactor didn't. If you had the reactor there and you pushed back on it, it didn't push away when you pushed on it.

It just prevented you from touching it.

Yeah. And so when Dennis said, go out there and look under the craft, Here's the craft, whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground, and I went underneath it. You would think it's translating its weight onto the ground and pushing, and I should be squashed, squashed without any doubt. But I'm not. There's no feeling there at all. So it's not translating its weight or its push to the ground and pushing off the ground. It's just canceling out its weight, which is something completely different.

Mm-hmm.

And so when— so Element 115, so you have it in this triangle-shaped form. Did you ask how they got into a triangle-shaped form? Was it made like this? This is how it came?

I'm sure I did. But I mean, it only worked like that. It worked like a stack of disks and had to be cut at a certain angle to work in the reactor.

And did they say they cut it, or did they say it was already cut?

Well, it was already cut and they were duplicating it.

Pull that microphone up too. So they were duplicating it. Did they have more of it, this element?

Yeah, yeah, they had quite a bit of it. So either there was a quantity in other other crafts or other reactors that they removed.

Yeah, but was there any discussion that there had been some sort of an exchange where they had been giving this?

No.

So one of the things, like, do you know Diana Pasulka? She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs, and she's worked with Gary Nolan, and, you know, on material recollection from supposed crash sites. And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations.

And I guess that's possible, right?

Well, doesn't it make sense if this thing crashed? Why is it perfect? Why is it not destroyed?

Look, I, I've heard so many— I'm not into UFOs, right? As crazy as that, it's crazy. I'm just interested in the technology, and I feel very privileged to have been involved in the project. But I don't know, I don't think there can be that many crashes, do you?

No.

This advanced technology, you think they're coming to Earth and just there's a thunderstorm and they're crashing into the ground? I'm not buying that.

There's one logical explanation that does actually make sense. There were some high-altitude nuclear tests that they did.

Well, there was the TEAK test, you know, back in the '60s.

Starfish Prime.

And Starfish Prime, right.

Yeah. If you had no idea that this was about to happen and you were hovering over Earth observing us—

What are the chances? I mean, what are the chances?

They're not very high.

Yeah.

Right?

They're not very— I mean, what are the chances a craft is coming over and a nuclear test at that exact second?

Unless there's a lot more observation than we know, and that they just observe us in a way that we can't see them. Especially if you're going back to the 1950s and 1960s, we have very few satellites. We're very—

That was the nuclear cowboy era.

Yeah.

Where there were just—

Well, just Starfish Prime. Explain to people what they did.

Yeah, I did a 1.4 megaton, you know, detonation up there. And just that, I think all they did, let's see what happens if we blow it up at this altitude. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. You know, there was another test planned to blow up on the moon just to make the Russians look, you know, like, like we were awesome. But they detonate the moon.

What if they pushed it away and fucked up our orbit?

Yeah, I think that would take a lot more. I mean, there was— I don't remember what the project—

Project A-19.

Oh, A-19. That was it. Yeah.

Study of Lunar Research Flights.

Detonated nuclear bomb. Yeah. I can't pull up these numbers, but yeah, Project A-111.

Crazy.

Yeah, we're going to do that because that, like, everybody on Earth could just go outside and look up the moon.

Get blown up, and the explosion would be faintly visible to the human eye, to people on Earth.

Yeah, I still think they should have done that, but, um, yeah, but you're the guy that put a jet engine in the back of a Honda. Like, I honestly think they should detonate a nuclear bomb on the Fourth of July every year, but that's just me.

Um, well, also, you live in Nevada. That is what we're used to. No, it had a long history of them doing that.

Yeah, man.

So going back to this reactor, so did— how was it explained to you? Did they explain to you how the technology works or what they know about it?

Like, now the way it was explained to me is, is when I got to be alone with Barry, he said he was excited to show this to me. He said, I'm going to turn— this is the reactor that we assume powers the craft. Sorry, no worries. I'm, uh, I'm gonna, uh, show you the reactor that powers the craft. And he turned it on, small little dome on a flat little plate.

I said, was this in the craft or was this on a table?

This is in the experimental area.

Okay. And, um, so this was not the one that was in the sport craft, this was another one?

This was another one.

This is it right here?

Yeah, that's it.

That's in the film.

And yeah, on, on the table. And he had it there and he went over to the emitter and rotated it and he said, try and touch it. And I put my hand on it and it rebounded off. And the closer you got to it, the more it pushed back. And that's a real shock because there's nothing that pushes back like that. That's a living force field. That's science fiction stuff. That really got my attention.

So explain what is happening, like, in terms of the rotation of this thing. Like, what is happening? Like, what energy is going into it that's causing it to go on?

Well, actually, we don't know that. I mean, that, that's the whole thing. It's, it's pushing back. That's a— it's a repulsive gravitational field. Like, as far as we know, gravitate Gravity only has an attractive force to it. We've never— even with antimatter, we've analyzed it and it still has an attractive force to it. There's no repulsive force that we've discovered because that would be a great propulsion system. But this repulsed, so that this was a new field completely.

But how was he turning it on?

He had the emitter, which is a big pipe, part of—

what is an emitter? Like, what is the craft itself?

Has on the main level has the reactor and what we call the amplifiers. 3, the reactor and 3 amplifiers. Right underneath that, there are 3 emitters that are right under the amplifier.

Emitters.

And we believe the energy from the reactor is amplified by the emitters—

and by the amplifiers—

by the amplifiers, sorry— and transmitted to the emitters. And they produce this field that lifts the craft off the ground. And that's how it works. But there is nothing, nothing even in our physics or our science that that correlates to that at all.

What is the energy that's going to them that causes it to turn?

We don't know. I mean, we just assume it's gravity because it's the only thing we know like that, but it has a negative gravity effect, so it might be a new force entirely.

But when you're saying, so you have this machine that's next to it that you do something to that causes it to turn on?

The emitter.

There's the amplifier, and there's the emitter, which looks like a big pipe.

Right.

And if you rotate the emitter, I don't know how many degrees, was it 20 degrees?

20 degrees.

20 degrees or something like that. That connects it in some way to the reactor, and it begins to be powered.

And what is the emitter doing?

It emits that field. It's not a gravitate— it could be a gravitational field, but it's an anti-gravitational field that pushes on the ground.

And what's happening in the emitter? Did you study the emitter?

Well, we attempted to, but no, there was nothing that we really came up on that.

What does it look like? Like, what's the internal structure of it?

It's just— it's a hollow pipe with, I guess, little copper-colored plates all inside. It's kind of in the, in the film. But there's— I mean, these guys have been working on it for years before I got there, and there was really no, no concept of what they were doing.

Did they explain to you why element 115 Element 115 is crucial to this working?

No.

What its role is?

No.

So element 115 was not even really discussed back when you were doing this. It wasn't even discovered or proven physically until it was a Large Hadron Collider experiment in the 2000s, right?

No, I know they synthesized that. But look, and you know, in any element there is always— there's always a large amount of—

well, it doesn't decay. There's like—

yeah, that was the thing about in the Large Hadron Collider experiment, they were able to achieve it, but it only existed for a few milliseconds.

Yeah, sorry, I've had too much.

No worries. So, um, did they— how did they define this material?

No, there's— I mean, there's different isotopes of, of every element, and element 115, just like any other element, uh, there can be a stable version of it and 150 different unstable elements. To them. So I'm sorry.

No, no, it's okay. Just try to continue the train of thought.

So it is basically different isotopes of it.

Yeah, different isotopes. Yeah, I, I need to stop drinking this. Yeah, it's okay. Have a cup of coffee. I can't even remember. Yeah, coffee's good. Oh, we got coffee. Oh my gosh. All right. Holy cow.

There you go.

That'll help.

Yeah, there's, I mean, there's different isotopes.

And you were able to physically touch this element with—

Oh, absolutely. I was physically able to touch the element. Yeah.

But when you're physically able to touch it, there's no adverse effects. It doesn't have any effect on the body. Does it feel like metal? Does it feel like plastic?

No, it looks copper-like. I mean, maybe it's not as dark as copper is, but it's that color. And I haven't seen an element like that. It has unique properties that other elements don't have. It produces an anti-gravitational field.

When combined with energy, with some kind of energy, it produces this field.

Yeah, yeah.

And was it understood what is happening? Like, what is the relationship between this element and this— like, how is— what is going on? Like, you're bombarding this element with something?

Yeah, from what we understood, we X-rayed the reactor itself and there was a path around it that looked— it made it look like a cyclotron. it looked like there was an accelerator.

So when they were explaining it to you, is this, is this just your work partner that's explaining this stuff to you?

Yes, it's, it's just Barry that's explaining.

And did you ask him, how do you know this? Where are you getting this from? Is this—

yeah, he got this information prior to me, um, and they x-rayed it found a structure in there to where they believed it was an accelerator, and it was interacting— the point of the one, the 115, is in a little triangular piece, and it was interacting with that in some fashion.

So, and did he say whether or not the United States government or whoever was doing this research had tried to recreate one of those on their own?

That, that was our job, to try to recreate one of those on their own.

But what was the metal that it was made out of?

We don't know.

We don't know.

Again, the metallurgy was not— that was not—

it seems insane that you couldn't communicate to them that whatever this stuff is made out of, this whole thing acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like you could make the same exact thing with aluminum and or carbon fiber?

No, you can't. This thing acted differently. This thing acted differently than any material that we knew. And I mean, I think all the answers are in the metallurgy guys. It, you know, that's, that's who knew what was going on, who was able to provide the answers. But, um, as far as we knew, if we didn't have the connection with those other groups, we weren't really going to make any progress.

You were speculating that there was a type of metallic alloy that would work better with this concept. Was it Byzantine? Like, what was—

bismuth?

Bismuth, yes.

Did I say that? I don't think so.

I don't know.

No, someone, someone that I talked to was explaining to me it's related to on the periodic table. I mean, right, bismuth is above it. and 115 is below it. But we never did see any correlation between bismuth. That this was a completely new material.

Well, I think— oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what it was. So one of the pieces that Gary Nolan had found, that was— Gary Nolan is the guy at Stanford that has examined these pieces that are from supposedly crashed sites, crash sites where something had gone down and scattered. Some of these pieces, they're atomically layered, and I've heard that magnesium and bismuth seem to be prevalent.

Bismuth is the thing. Yeah, bismuth is the thing. It's right above 115 on the periodic chart. And there's, yeah, there's something about that. There's something about 115. Yeah, all this weird magnetism stuff with bismuth. There's a video from the Action Lab, The Strange Magnetism of Bismuth. It's, yeah, it's diamagnetic.

Yeah, so let him play it out a little bit.

Oh, let's try to find those. What is diamagnetic?

Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic fields.

I see.

So it kind of makes sense if they're finding these pieces that are— the way he was explaining it, that's business. Yeah, the way he's explaining this, whatever this alloy was, this very small piece that was found, I believe, in prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the exact date that he said, from one of these crash— one of them was from Brazil that they had recovered, and someone had gotten possession of it in the 1990s, and someone had gotten it eventually to Gary Nolan. He said that to create this on Earth, first of all, it can't be done with current technology. We don't have the ability to do the layering technology. Yeah, and that it would cost billions of dollars just theoretically to make this, and it doesn't exist. Yeah, this is it. Alleged extraterrestrial metal, the bottom of a wedge-shaped craft, the 1940s, 26 alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns dark bismuth with 100 to 200 microns of silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece received from the US Army source were formed with a curvature that tapered.

Well, in the fort— in the '40s 1940s. Yeah, right. That— good luck making that.

I mean, wedge-shaped craft in late 1940s, that's Roswell. I mean, that's Roswell.

Well, I mean, what does it do? I would like to see the test results of just the material. We can make that now.

We can?

Yeah. 1 to 4 microns of bismuth, 200 microns of silver.

The thing is, like, making something like that in the 1940s is absolutely—

no, in the '40s, forget it.

Impossible. But I mean, now we could fabricate something like that, and it would cost a shitload of money. So like, the idea that you would make something like that and just scatter it around—

but what does it do, right?

What does it do? Why? Why is magnesium and bismuth— why in that particular array?

There is something about bismuth. There was something about bismuth. Smith. But that's why it's so fascinating. I would love to know where they— like, it's been 40 years. I would love to know where they're at now. Yeah, where they're at now, if they continued.

Well, they had to have continued. I can't imagine you go, ah, we're done.

No, I mean, they may have moved it. I mean, like I said before, I mean, they were anxious to move it out of there at that time.

But are you aware of the labyrinth in Egypt that they've discovered. So there's this—

are you talking about the columns? Columns?

No, no, no, this is unrelated. This is something different. So Herodotus discussed this. Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwyk, he has Uncharted X on YouTube. It's an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and, and left his field and started making these incredible videos. But he's highly intelligent, incredibly articulate, and so these videos are just absolutely fantastic. And really, he's, he's very well-versed scientifically, so you can understand these things and explain them to you. Like, they're examining like the construction of the pyramids and the whatever technology was used to carve the stones. And there's just so much of it that is like confusing because it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication and technology that's involved in creating these things. Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths that were underground in Giza— not in Giza, but Hawara. Is that where it was? Jamie will find it. But this These— the way Herodotus described it, he said they were far superior and more impressive than the, the pyramids of Giza underground. Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area.

So they changed the water table, fucked it up. This whole area got flooded.

Did they know they were there when they accidentally—

no, they didn't, because a lot of this stuff, like, this is from thousands and thousands of years ago. A lot of it was covered over with sand. And, you know, there had been some explorers a long time ago that went there and saw some of what was in there. But the way Herodotus described it, it's just absolutely fantastic. So then they started using ground-penetrating radar, and they started using these various technologies that could detect what was under the surface. And one of the things that they found was there's a massive atrium, and inside this atrium—

You mentioned this to me.

Yes. There is a 40-meter-long metallic object that is inside this atrium. 40 meters of some unknown metal.

How deep is it?

I believe it's 100 meters into the ground.

So you're telling me ground-penetrating radar can get to 100 meters underground?

The stuff that Filippo Bondi has used from satellites—

The one that we were talking about.

Than a kilometer into the ground.

And with decent resolution?

Well, no, not decent resolution, but enough that you could see symmetry, enough that they can also detect things that are well known.

100 meters of chambers.

Well, listen to this. They got— they detected accurately a particle collider in Italy that is inside of a mountain, 1.2 kilometers below the mountain. It sees through the mountain and can detect this thing in the exact diameter, the exact dimensions that this thing exists. So they can show you—

and they—

this—

yes, a particle collider. Yes.

So this is a particle collider that they know exists, right? So this is an actual particle collider they're looking for, right?

That's the proof.

So they just— it's just proof that this technology is not just—

wait, I mean, hang on. I mean, how do they know it's a particle collider?

No, no, no, the particle collider exists. Exists. This is a— the Italians have this particle collider. It's known. They made it. It's like—

they just— they didn't do tests on the ground, right?

No, it's not like we found a particle collider.

Okay, that's what I thought you were saying.

No, no, no, no. So this particle collider, they use this technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain. So they know that the exact dimensions of this the Large Hadron Collider. You can see, you can almost draw a schematic of it. Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids. These columns are 22 meters, 20+ meters in diameter, and they have something that resembles coils around all of them. And they're positioned at various points all around where the structure is. It goes all the way down into hundreds of meters down, and then it goes to another structure. And the whole complex of it, these structures, goes to over a kilometer into the ground.

But how can you see a kilometer underground?

Well, you'd have to understand this technology. What was it called? Radiotomography? He explained it to me.

Synthetic aperture radar, right?

Yes. Well, whatever this thing is—

I'm seeing a kilometer underground at decent resolution.

It's not decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the scope of what it is. It's enough to understand where spaces are and where—

Like everybody knows about this but me.

I mean, it's pretty fascinating. Yeah, I'll send you the podcast and I'll send you some of his conferences where he was explaining this to rooms filled with scientists.

You would think they'd be anxious to dig this up.

They are. And there's, there's, there's actual like studies that are okay currently being discussed. Well, they already know that there's these channels that go in the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand because, you know, the sand's constantly moving. But these things go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down.

Like, if they find hundreds— if they find shafts hundreds of meters down with coils around them, look, that's advanced technology.

Exactly. Yeah, this is the point. Yeah, this is the point. Whatever this thing is that they have in an atrium, like, if they said that they got that craft from an archeological dig, I mean, what— maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.

I believe that. That's possible.

Yeah.

Well, the object that you're— I didn't— I actually got to speak to Filippo Biondi, by the way. He's in Italy, he's in Rome. We got to speak Italian, so we got to talk. And we talked about that. I had no idea they found something with a metal object down there, though.

This is not Filippo Biondi's work.

Oh, pardon me.

Okay. This is some different scientists that are just studying the labyrinths. Jamie, pull up some schematics of the labyrinth.

So in the labyrinth, there's like a big large atrium.

You gotta pee again? Yeah, go ahead.

Sorry, head out. Yeah, I feel like a fucking—

don't worry about it. Get some air, clear your head. So in this, in this labyrinth, there's a large atrium. Okay, and in this large atrium, there is essentially a tic-tac.

Really?

A tic-tac shaped object that is 40 meters long. That is of some unknown metal. They don't know what it is, they don't know how it works, but this is— this structure is all underground in Egypt, which is wild because—

and how—

how—

it's 100 meters.

Well, okay, we'll get a chance to look at it. This is Hawara. So, so there it says the 40-meter metallic object. See that where it says Hawara Rising?

Yeah.

So if you click on that, it talks about the 40-meter metallic object. Discovered in Egyptians.

We can't read a report.

Subterranean labyrinth. Yeah, people talking about it, right? Got it. But so whatever it is, play out some of the video just so we could talk about it. So this, this whole thing, if you see some of the images that they're discussing, I think, and today we're talking about the work that I Chicago, huh?

Uh, and the team that was in, uh, Poland as well. And at that point is when I had met the person Lucinda Lobos, who later became my wife 6 months later.

So yeah, you, you actually, um, were working with the NRIAG and then the— I don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah, that's not going to help us, but if you could just go to some of the images where they've sort of outlined. I was trying to find it.

That's— there is not a very clear image of the metallic object that—

no, no, it's fine. But just the labyrinth itself, what they think the structure of it was.

So I don't know where they got this from.

There's also the other issue, 40-meter mystery metal object.

That's a weird rendering that doesn't usually come out from—

right, but there's some other drawings of like from the Herodotus days. Yeah, but like, so this is what they think it looks like under the ground. Which is fucking completely bonkers. And if there is some 40-meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about like this sport model being a part of an archeological dig, right, they might have found something back then that was worshiped, that thing, and had that thing as like, you know, turned it into this, right, as a pyramid.

Yeah, I think there's something to that.

Well, there's You know, all these people that believe that there was an incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalyptic disaster that reset civilization, and it took thousands of years, and what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, but a rebuild. A rebuild thousands and thousands and thousands of years later. You know, that rings true with me.

Me too.

As Graham Hancock always says, we're a species with amnesia. And I think that makes sense. And I think if you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago, and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now, I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic megalithic structures were in. We don't understand. Yeah, we don't know how technology we used. We don't.

Yeah.

And it doesn't— it literally doesn't make sense. That they were able to do this.

It's even like when we see those big gigantic stones and they're not just piled together, they're like interlocked in weird shapes and all that. It's like, how do we— how did that happen? I mean, that, you know, those are things that— yeah, I agree with you.

Yeah, archeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous evidence that not only were these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably more advanced than we are now, with some different kind of technology.

And maybe, like, it— again, it's like a— it's like advanced but in a different way, right? Right.

Yes.

Otherwise, different pathway. Yeah, they didn't go our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal combustion engine and electronics because we would see something. Exactly.

Right.

But might not. If you're thinking about 100,000 years ago, there might not be anything left, which is part of the problem.

Right.

But whatever this metallic object is if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there. See, all layers converge at a central corridor or avenue, he said, like the atrium of a shopping mall where you could see all floors from one vantage point. A hall consisting of a massive space, 40 meters wide and no less than 100 meters long. My personal interpretation, Tim said, is that the entire hall was constructed to house a centrally positioned freestanding object. About 40 meters long.

Wow.

So this hall, they believe, was constructed to house whatever this 40-meter-long unknown metallic object is.

How could they not dig that up?

Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense amount of money, right? And the thing is about the Egyptians, the people that run it— I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass, and he's incredibly dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what. And when you say, how did they make these structures? 2,300,000 stones that weigh between 2 and 80 tons. The biggest stones cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through the mountain. And it's like, this was a national project.

The Egyptians did everything because they were awesome.

Yeah, I'm sure they were awesome. Yeah, I'm sure they were awesome. But it doesn't explain the technology involved because there's extreme technology just to be able to cut those things. Like, one of the things that they don't understand is these vases, these vases that they made that are perfectly designed where there's the difference between like the edges and the symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair. And these are cut out of incredibly hard granite.

They don't really— I've never heard.

Yeah.

Yeah. You guys are familiar with that.

This is a 3D print of one of them that exists.

Yeah.

And they're fascinated by the perfection. And they're saying, how did they do that? We don't even know how to do that.

Incredibly hard stone.

Built with an incredible precision.

Yes.

Granite.

Granite.

Granite.

Incredibly hard granite, incredible precision, back when they had no metal alloys. They had copper tools. It doesn't make any sense. None of it makes any sense. Then there's the symmetry involved in some of these statues. Like, they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between the eyes, the nose, the lips. Most— no one's face is symmetrical. Your left side of your face is different. If you combine the two sides, they look— it looks weird. But when you look at these statues, these statues which are massive, carved out of granite, again, supposedly before they had steel, like they didn't have diamond-tipped instruments to do this. They polished them. They're perfectly symmetrical and massive. Some of them are 1,000 tons, and they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there. And they all seem to be— the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest.

How could you not want to dig those up? Yeah, well, and look at them. There's some—

I mean, they're concerned about national pride, but if you dig them up, um, it's not just national pride, it's the pride of the people that have been espousing this one narrative for so long. That's part of the problem, the gatekeepers of the information.

It's still national pride.

It is, but these people are idiots. That's part of the problem. Like, they— their own ego is preventing them from being open-minded interested in calling out to the world's research communities and saying, listen, there's something going on here. We don't have the big picture. We have a picture that we have formed from a limited amount of information, and we've been incredibly arrogant about what we're assuming. We also know that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name and carve their hieroglyphs into existing things. They would claim existing things. Some of the carvings on these things are are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing. And they think that these are old things that were there already, and then these later pharaohs just wanted to attach their name, chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things.

And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot, is the fact that there's no tools that were ever discovered in those areas that would prove that those things— that those things were made with those. And they had to use tools. They have to have something. Right, so there's not even that. That's not even available. So it's like, how did they do it? Did they hide the tools? Did they— I mean, why would they do that?

It doesn't— none of it makes any sense. And also these incredibly hard vases that you find, they're the oldest ones. They're the things that they find in the oldest sites. It's like the most complicated, complex, confusing technology seems to be the oldest stuff. Yeah, there's also like—

you had another guy here that does research on Peru, and he was talking— I can't remember his name. I got to meet him.

Luke Caverns? Was it him?

Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show about that, about the ancient stuff that they're finding underground in Peru.

There's a couple guys. What was the other guy?

He's got black hair. I can't remember his name.

That's Luke. Younger guy?

Yeah, younger guy.

That's Luke.

So basically he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff stuff in Peru. The first layer is younger, and what's below it is what's really incredible and more complex, more complex. But they don't want to go there because you're going to destroy an existing archeological site that's on top of it. So what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level, which is even better, because they're going to have to break an archeological site of a, of a more recent part of that civilization.

This is a common theme among people. We build on older sites. There's a place that I go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast, and there's this incredible old church there that's over 1,000 years old, but it's built on an even older church, and there's a plexiglass floor that shows the old church. The old church is underneath it, and you can see the structure of this old church. And I was asking them, how old is the old church? They go, we don't know. Is over 1,000 years old. So it's over 1,000 years old, this church, and then this really old church is on top of it that's like hundreds and hundreds of years old also. But they built it on top of an existing structure. So this is a common theme. This is a theme in Peru where you see the Inca construction, which is like much less complicated, smaller stones, you know, mud mortar, and it— but it's on top of these megalithic structures that are carved in these jigsaw shapes where it seems like they're— they've been melted. Yeah, yeah, it's freaky stuff. They have no understanding of what technology was used, who did it, how they did it, how they move these immense thousand-ton stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down.

Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, that's—

there's a lot of that stuff that's really, really freaky.

Freaky.

And then you get into old religious texts, and that's when things get really freaky. You get to things like the Book of Enoch that talk about the Watchers who came down from the sky and created humans.

Clearly, a lot of unusual stuff happened a long time ago.

And we don't have a good record of it. We just have what we know, and what we know we get very arrogant about. We know what happened 300 years ago.

That's a really good point. —of what we know, we get very arrogant about. Right.

And it's also— Anything else we don't accept. These academics and these people that are in charge of the narrative, like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers, because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explain to the world how these incredible sites were produced. And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it. They fight it because it is their— it's part of them. It's their identity.

Yeah, when I spoke to Filippo Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy when I was younger. One of them, she was younger than I was when I was there, but she's now become a respected archeologist in Rome, and she's an Egyptologist, okay? And I went out to Italy to visit family, and I was sitting at the table— this is not even that long ago— and she's sitting next to me, and I mean, I remember her from, from being a and she nudged me at the table. There's— her family's all academic, everybody's a doctor or scientist or something like that, so there's always that pride of the science. And she nudges me, and in Italian she says, I'm really interested in what, what you do, what you're looking into. And I knew what she meant, it was about UFOs. And I just responded, I mean, I'm even more interested in what you you know about what's out there in Egypt? And she looked at me and she says, we don't really know all of it. Some— a lot of— she said a lot of it makes no sense.

But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table, because now she's going to come across as this pseudoscience type of like, oh my God, she's going to come out of the mainstream, you know. So, and then she came, she went to her place, and I was still there. We were there for a couple of days. She came and gave me a little book, and in Italian, I don't know how to say it, the missing, I don't know how to say it in English, but the missing Vangelo, like the missing scriptures, basically. It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible that speak of things that are not convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand.

And one of the fascinating things about these missing scriptures is they found them alongside existing scriptures. So when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, so they found these in a cave in Qumran, and it's kind of a crazy thing, like someone threw a rock rock and hit a clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot. So, they threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there, and then they started looking, and then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots. Inside the scrolls, they found the book of Isaiah. It was 1,000 years older than the oldest version of the book of Isaiah that we had ever found, and it's identical. Verbatim to the Book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible. Along with it is the Book of Enoch, and the Book of Enoch is fucking squirrely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's a good way to describe it.

Just a few rabbis decided that the Book of Enoch was too weird because it didn't jive with the Torah, so they left it out of the biblical canon. That's right. That's why it's not taught. But the Book of Enoch is readily available. You could read it, and it's also in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian Bible includes the Book of Enoch. Really? Yes. And those are the people that supposedly are in possession of the Ark of the Covenant.

The Ark of the Covenant.

Yeah.

Which is like, Graham Hancock talks about it. There's like a person is set to, like they have a job of watching the Ark of the Covenant, but it's known that it's going to kill them. So they all get cataracts and cancer.

Yeah. Like it has like bad things. Yeah. Well, it has some sort of radiation apparently.

And they exhibit signs of radiation poisoning. When these people are designed to be the curators.

Where is the Ark of the Covenant? In Ethiopia, supposedly.

In Ethiopia. So you guys think that's— I mean, I'm very—

I think it's ancient technology. Yeah, I think it's probably ancient technology. It's probably some completely not understood ancient technology.

I'm not discounting it. I'm just, I'm just wondering.

Well, yeah, the fact that you're skeptical even though you have the craziest fucking story. Yeah. It speaks to your integrity. It really does. Because you're not a guy who believes kooky shit. So for you, a guy who doesn't believe kooky shit is a hard, rational scientist who's an engineer who's done things like put a rocket engine in the back of a fucking Honda, and then, or a hydrogen-powered Corvette. And then you go and see these things, you're like, wait, what the fuck is this thing you have?

Look, I worship technology. Right. Nothing else. Right. So I mean, to hear something like that, Do you think that actually exists?

I don't know. Graham Hancock is convinced it exists. It's very carefully guarded, and these people have been guarding it for centuries.

I mean, it's just too many— throughout history, right?

Yes. So, I mean, there's too many missing pieces of the puzzle to really say one way or another. I don't think—

whether or not it was just mythology or an actual— right.

But it is weird that he's talked to these people that have of these fucking cataracts. And these people all say the same thing, they die. The people that are designed or that are designated to be the curators of this particular religious object.

I relate this back to, I think I told you the first time we met, you know, if somebody found a nuclear reactor back at that time, you know, and they took it apart, they just would drop dead, you know, from the radio. Yeah, magically from that. And anybody that came in to check on them would also die and they go, this is evil, it's cursed or whatever.

Or something that you're not supposed to have access to because it's divine.

Or some other— yeah, right. And could this be something at another level? Yes.

You know, that I have to say, and I mean, I'm no one to say it, but I struggle with divine stuff because I'm like, this craft or this technology, I mean, our phones, to somebody 1,000 years ago would look like some divine object. I mean, it's technology to us. So we have to be very cautious in— like, I'm not saying there is no divine something. Maybe there is, we don't know. But I think technology really could mask itself as divine power. 100%.

Or divine energy itself could be technology taken to its final form. That's— that I'm open to. Well, if you think about what we're talking about with sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone? Yeah, for 1,000 years to do this. Well, what do you have? You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself. There's access to zero-point energy, can do whatever. I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement. Complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created. I mean, there's new theories that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole. You know, trying to figure out whether or not there ever was a Big Bang or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes.

So where, where do you think we are? What do you think this is? I think it's a process.

I think we're, we're at a stage of a process. Our problem is we have ideology, we We have dogma, we have ego, we have people that are smarter than most people but want to think that they have all the information, and I don't think they do. And then we have open-minded people that are curious but don't want to look like kooks, and they're all trying to figure it out while we're making a fucking digital god. Why, these weirdos on the spectrum, we are literally manufacturing our own god, right?

Right. But if we are—

if you take that and you You extrapolate, you go from where it is now, you think about the exponential increase of technology. Well, where does that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean, that might be what God is. We want to think that God is a thing that exists. It just exists, it created everything.

Maybe we make God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're on the same channel. Yeah, I think we created God.

I think human curiosity and this thirst for innovation is all part of it.

I'll say something about the technology because it always fascinates me. I mean, I spent 4 years with Bob and Ed to build it in a virtual environment, so I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it. But if you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of whether it's artificial, maybe it's natural. Maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with. And that field— I mean, Joe, you saw the movie. There was a test that was done in the lab that froze a candle flame, right? Okay, but the, but the photons are still visible within our realm here outside of the field, and you're still seeing the photons, yet it looks like it's frozen. To me, is there— is this Is that technology like a black hole? Is it some type of time stop? And they— and it, it basically gives us the power to utilize time in our advantage. If you think about progression in technology, anything we do, it takes time. Anything takes time, whether it's computing power. We're now— we're seeing quantum computers do things that they're faster and faster and they could do a trillion processes in an instant, and Japan is coming up with better, and then China.

But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that, right? If a technology can make you bypass time, it's like the record player playing music, but you're, you're now able to lift it, lift the little pin on the record and move it to wherever you want.

Yes.

And that's a good way to describe it, right? And now at that point, time is in your hands. And if we have a technology similar to what you saw, because you always said gravity is a control, gravity and time, it's interlocked, right? Space and time. Yeah, exactly. So if that's interlocked, then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, But how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve— sorry, to evolve faster? Because again, the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving. And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it?

Or should— I mean, should we be allowed to do that? Us in our current form. Yeah, I know. I, like I said, I'm, I'm not exactly on our side anymore. Well, that was one of the—

you know, do you remember, Jamie, who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems? Yeah, yeah.

I'm not sure we should be trusted with this stuff, right? Yeah. No, really, really.

Well, really, you think about what we're doing in Iran right now. You would say no. Yeah, yeah, right.

I would say no.

We're still flying over patches of dirt and bombing the fucking shit out of them.

No, imagine if we had something a million times that power. Right. Really, humans should not be trusted with that.

Right, we gotta trust it to AI. That's why we're making it bomb. This is getting scary. It is getting scary. It is. But it's not It's not science fiction anymore.

No, it's not. I mean, we're making fun of it now, but no, this is dangerous stuff. And I'm sorry for the people who think this is all a joke. It's not. This is real. And I'm really not sure we should be trusted with this. That's maybe why for 40 years or 60 years people have agreed to keep it quiet. I would agree. And that's the most logical conclusion. Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous stuff. And again, it's a world-dominating technology, and I don't know what to do with it other than to keep it from people.

So, and how do we know if it comes out? Something I always struggle with is, let's say they, they, let's say we do get in a, some, some type of thing saying, all right, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever, that says, okay, 'Okay, here we are, we have this.' Well, first of all, we have to validate it. The journalists are gonna—

the whole world. Nobody's gonna say—

The media is not gonna just trust somebody saying that. They're gonna go, 'Okay, wait a minute, what are you talking about?' Right? So it's not like because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it. It's like, 'All right, go show us.' Right? Let's see it, yeah. And then when you do that, well, now you're exposing something else. What happens when we need to believe it? Like as people, what has to happen for me to believe something that somebody says? There really has to be something serious that makes me believe it, right? You know what I mean? Like some— if a president or anybody, prime minister, whoever it is, says something to me, I'll still go like, okay, I mean, show me, right? And then when they show it, how do I know that's actually that? Think about that. Yeah. Right? And then from there, we now have to go to another level of, okay, well, if we have to prove it, we have to bring in scientific community. Okay? That means they have access to it. What's the security parameters there? Right.

And then you get compartmentalization. Exactly. Right. And then that stops any sort of understanding of it. There you go. And that's why you have this stagnation. This stagnation of where you've got these people working on this thing for decades and not making any progress.

Because you know how far we could have gotten if there was free discussion between all the groups working on this, right?

Yeah, but then you also have these fucking psychos like from Dr. Strangelove that want to turn it into a nuclear delivery system. Yeah, so you don't have to worry about them detecting nuclear bombs headed their way. You just instantaneously devastate Moscow in one shot. You don't have to take credit for it. Yeah, but we'd— right, no, it's like, we are not ready, right?

We know we're not ready, but we'd be more advanced if we did that. No, I mean, I agree that— I agree with that.

But it's all very strange, and no one knows more strange than you.

Like, no, there are plenty of people that know more strange than me. I mean, Dennis knew more strains than me. Anybody above him knew that. I just knew a small part of it.

But you, out of all the people that can talk about it, that are out there communicating about it, you have actually seen it physically.

Yeah, I, I try to only talk about what I, I've seen and touched and verified. I've heard plenty of other stuff that I don't know if it's true or not, and there's no sense in repeating that. Because nonsense moves at the speed of light these days. Right. Yeah, it does. And that's just— it's terrible.

You live in a weird existence, Bob. You really do. Because you've been holding on to this, and you have this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a part of folklore. It's become part of the zeitgeist. Like, this is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done. This resonates with people in a way that— look, I've done a lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on. I've had a lot of people that have stories. They're all very interesting. They don't get nearly the amount of traction that yours does. And I think it's because you're uniquely credible. You're uniquely credible in the fact that you are very skeptical. You're not interested in, like, these fantastic ideas. You're very dismissive of nonsense, but yet you have this burden Like, you actually physically touched these fucking things and went inside?

Yeah, I did. I mean, I was fortunate enough to have this really unique job. That's about it. And I am fascinated with the technology, but that's where it stops. I'm not interested in anybody else's story, although everybody has to email me. And, you know, I understand it, you know, that they're looking for somebody. Hey, I saw this thing out when I was on my boat and I mean, you know, what is it? I don't know. You know, I mean, they're just looking for something. And it's like, I don't know, maybe it was Venus or something. And, oh my God, you suck. You know, you work for the government. You know, it's like, dude, I'm just looking for a prosaic explanation. Right. And, you know, but I only know what I saw and I touched for myself and everything else, even in official government documentation. It's just words on paper. I don't know if that stuff is true. So you got to draw the line there. Yes, but, you know, I know what I, what I did see. I know for a fact, and there is no way you can tell me that that's not real.

Yeah, I, I mean, I, I have to say, in having worked with them and having inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper and find maybe there's a problem, maybe there's gonna be a gap, maybe we'll find something wrong with the story. 'Cause we went very deep. We had to build S4, we had to build a sport model. And there were things that happened over the years, things that he had said to us before we had built it, that there's no way he could have known because there was physicalities, real things that we built. When you build something in a 3D environment, you're actually building a real world. It's got light bounce and refractions like the real world. Like when you turn on the light, it does the same thing. If a material has a sheen, you see it. It's literally the same thing. It's just computing power that gives you access to another world. And he mentioned things that were absolutely impossible to know. And he— what one of the things that got— two things really convinced me. One of them was in the interior of the craft.

You had said to us it was very dark in there. And while Bob is explaining to us the— this interior of the craft, and many times he kept repeating, it was really dark in there, even though there were halogen lights. Right. And so at a certain point he says, as I'm crawling in, there's like these extension cords. And I remember going, Extension cords. Like, I hadn't computed. And he's like, yeah, they had lights in there. And I'm thinking, it's true. I mean, there's no light switch inside this big thing. It's 50, 52 feet. It's big. And so he said, yeah, there were two big industrial yellow industrial lights with four spots each pointed up. And so we decided to make those. We decided to research the type that were used back then in the United States, especially on military bases. The halogen power, because it was halogen in 1988, and we turned them on and it was still dark, and it was super dark. And I remember Christopher Matteau— by the way, a big shout out to Christopher Matteau that's on my team who made a lot of those visuals, and he's like a magician, he's the best— he's there, and I said, Chris, turn on the lights because we have to film in the craft.

And he's like, they're on. I said, they're not fucking on, I can't see anything. He's like, They're fully on. And I said, well, that doesn't make any sense. It's so dark in there. I remember thinking it consumes light. And so we upped the power of the light so that you could see more. And it was still dark. And I thought, what the hell is happening? I go, is there a bug? Is it— is there something wrong? He goes, no, I don't know. It's absorbing the light in there. We had to up the light intensity on those tripods by 20-fold. In order for you to see the visuals you see in our film. Otherwise, it would be really dark in that craft.

So how did you compute that? Like, what, what, what parameters did you establish?

So what you do is you're, you're inside a 3D environment. You're an actual— a 3— you're in a 3D world. Now we're inside the craft that is 52 feet in diameter. It's— we bring a camera in there So we were filming— the whole film was, was done with Blackmagic 6K cams. So we would bring our Blackmagics in the 3D environment. You can actually set that so that we could film inside the craft. So it matches the filming of our real cameras. And so as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens, it's the same aperture. Everything is as you would have it. And so you're trying to adjust for this dark room. But if the room is really dark, you can't really get a good look at it, because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor, but you would have been like, what's the black screen I'm looking at?

So what is the explanation for why it's so dark?

It's just the way the light reflects.

And that is exactly— yeah, it's when you're in that space. Right.

But here's the question, like, what are you when you're making this in a computer model? Right. Right. What are you putting in that would make it absorb light that way?

I didn't do that. So what we did is we spent over a year with Bob. I'm not kidding. It was like a year of trying to figure out the material of the craft, the actual skin of the craft. That was the hardest thing to do.

The specularity and the reflectivity of the actual material. And the angle. Yeah. And then when the lights are in there, They just reflect at a weird angle, and it never gets bright in there unless you have tremendous amounts of light in there. It's always dark.

And, and sorry to interrupt, but that would have been— so when, when that happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel, it's got a little bit of usage to it just to give it some texture. It's, it says it's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real material like that, because every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's real. Reacting like that. And now you turn these big halogen lights on, and it's like the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft— because they were turned upwards, remember? Bob said they were not pointed like this, they were pointed to the ceiling of the craft. So you got two of them. It's like wherever the light was going was getting eaten up by that portion of the material. So it's not reflecting all the way. So you have a 52-foot distance and it's being lost in a maybe 7, 8-foot diameter environment area where the light is. And we're like, why is that happening? But that's how it does— what— that's the reality. He could not have known that if he— if he's trying to make that up.

Anybody who's inventing a story says there's two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there. A liar would not say it was really dark in there. You don't know that. You have to build it, right? So to me, that was a physicality of being inside the craft that made me go, Lazar could not have known that if he was making that up.

You wouldn't know it until you experiment.

Exactly. Right. So I'm like, unless Bob back then decided to go and in his garage build himself a fake dome, which I don't think you did, I'm like, how would he have known that? We didn't expect that. We were, we were struggling with why is it so dark. And then you make films, so you're used to using lighting. Exactly. And, and Chris was like, dude, this thing is just eating up the light. And I'm like, Bob kept saying, "It's so dark in there." And it just— how do you— how is that possible?

What were the other things?

The other one, I laugh about this with Bob all the time, it's about the flag on the craft, that you could have seen it. I don't remember. So when he walked into the hangar the very first time, he saw— the very first time— The backwards flag. He saw the craft, then he saw the American— reversed American flag. Sticker on the craft. Wonder why it was reversed. I'll get to that in a sec. I think I know, but whatever, I'll say what I think. And there's a lot of stuff— I researched a lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did this, and there's a lot of bad information out there. So I really, I really tell people, if you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there. Check this out, because Bob actually vetted everything. So it's not the wrong information to read. But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag if the craft was that size and it was on the hull, on the, on the craft shell. There's no way. The angle— he's 5-something, he wouldn't have been able to see it.

So we built it. We built a 52-foot diameter craft. We put it in the hangar. It's there. And my, my team— Chris gives me the goggles, the ones I made you try on And it is the very first time I go in there, and I know the craft is there. So I put them on, and now they're, they're hoping, because they're there with notes, they're hoping I'm giving them all the notes. Oh no, that's not good, that's not good. And the first thing I did is I looked to my right, I'm looking at the craft, and I'm— I asked Chris to put me at 5'10", which is your height. So I said, at 5'10", I'm Bob's height with the goggles. I want to see And the first thing I said is, oh, it's— there it is. And they're like, there what is? I said, the flag. And they thought I was pointing at a flag on a wall. And they're like, there's no flag in the hangar. I said, no, on the craft. And they're like, yeah? I said, you can clearly see it. It was clear. That was something that also made me go, yeah, this is— this is it.

This is the real eyes. So had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the detractors out there kept saying there's no way at that angle a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shell. But you can. It's as clear as day. So those were two things that I considered to be like, you know, the It's there. So I know to maybe some people that's not a lot, but as a person like I am who's very technical, I'm very, I'm super difficult. It took a long time to do this because I'm a perfectionist and I wanted to make sure it was accurate to what he saw. I look at stuff like that because I analyze everything like that. And I analyzed this story inside out.

And if you couldn't see the flag from that position, it would be a red flag.

Yeah, that would have been a red flag. Flag for me, I would have been like, wait, you can't see it, but you can. So you can't, you can't put enough of a value on little details like that. Because he didn't say this in 2026. He said this in 1989. Right. Why?

Why do you think the flag was reversed?

In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to assertain is the fact that on military or on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, it's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag. On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way. If you look at vehicles, let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on each side and they have a normal one on the left one. Front on the left side and a reversed on the right side because it's the right side of the vehicle.

So it's blowing—

it's blowing because the wind is blowing the flag that way. Yeah. So the reversed American flag is a, is a, is an actual, uh, it's the law of how to use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles, and it has to be like that on the right side. So to, to say, is that the side of the craft?

Yeah, it must—

it must be, because if you go into the craft, the seats— when you're— when you go into the craft, I can't wait for you to go in the craft— when you go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning the hatch is the right side of the craft. It's the only thing that came to mind. I mean, is that what they did at S-4? They fucking put a sticker on it? I mean, it's the only logical thing we could think of is that's why it was there. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I'm, you know, my other, my other— because if it was an American flag, if it was just for identifying this is America, why would you reverse it?

Right, right. You're reversing it because it's indicating the direction which it travels. Exactly.

That's just an interesting—

yeah, right? It's all interesting. The goggles is a trip, right? When I put on the 3D AR goggles and you— VR goggles, rather— and you, you stand in that warehouse, that hangar, and look at it, it's very strange.

It feels weird. Exactly like it was. It feels very weird.

It feels very weird because, I mean, I'm only imagining what it's like to actually be you in 1988 and be standing there.

When you put the goggles on, that's exactly how it was.

What did Dennis say when you first saw it? Was he like, "Huh? Huh?" No, Dennis was hardcore.

He was, "Yeah, he was here. Look at that. Come back in here." I mean, there was no reaction. Barry, on the other hand, was out of his mind. He couldn't wait to show me stuff. He said, check this out. Oh my God, that was that awesome, you know. But Dennis was, uh, it was like a hardcore, you know, military guy.

How much of a view did you get of the other crafts? Because it's one of the things in the film, you only see like hints of them. That was it. That's it.

That's it. What you saw in the film is exactly what it was. It was just a passing thing. And as I was walking out there going, wow, there's more. Everything looks different. And other than the, the first two hangars, I really couldn't tell what was passed out there. But there were other hangars and there were things inside them.

But that's also interesting that at the time in 1988, this site was not even confirmed. This was like— for you to have to know about this and know the exact location of it is kind of strange, right?

Now Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the general idea. I said said, you know, I know what time I got out there, and I could see Papoose Lake, and behind me— no, he pulled up a lot of stuff from there. But another interesting thing he pulled up was there was an old silver mine exactly there, in the exact same place. And I wonder if they used that as the— it was already drilled, there was already, you know, corridors in there.

Actually, Wait, I actually held this for this show. What I'm about to say is the first time ever. It's not even— it didn't make it in my film. I wish it did, but it didn't make it in the film. Veronica on our team, she's my sister. She's like my right hand. And if I didn't have her, I wouldn't be here right now. She found this. And at a certain point, we were looking at the maps out there. And we— you'll see in my film that Gene Huff sent us some U.S. Department of the Interior official maps of that environment at the Groom Lake, Papoose Lake. But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to go deeper. We said there's got to be more. And there's one map in— that is a publicly available map. It's super not easy to find, by the way, that is in the hands of the US Department of the Interior. I could get it to you if you want. I can email it to you. That map is the oldest map of Papoose Lake known in the hands of the government, that is, that is public domain. That map— and everybody's going to be listening to this— clearly shows a road that goes right into where S4 was, is.

It doesn't show a road near it. It shows a road going right in the mountain and they removed it. That map is from 1941. Okay, right after that, the map is 1950 and 1952, and those roads were removed. But the, the late— the oldest map we ever found, it's going to be available, we're going to post it on our website, it's going to be everywhere. It shows, uh, clear as day a road that goes right into the mountain. Exactly where Bob Lazar said S-4 was.

So do you think that that was the road to the silver mine initially?

Yes, I believe that.

Yeah, it makes sense that they would use an existing facility and just enlarge it instead of start from nothing, right?

Of course, especially if it's abandoned. Yeah, yeah. And it also makes sense that if Roswell was real and if they really did find a crashed UFO in 1947, like like in the 1950s, they'd be like, let's get rid of this fucking road, right? Yeah. If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades. You come along in 1988, they've got this happening in the 1950s and it's still there.

Yeah. Yeah. I think what happened is when the CIA took over, because CIA is the one took over Area 51, they're the ones at Area 51. I think what happened is as they took over, they just removed the road. It wasn't even because there was a UFO, a flying saucer there. I just think they got in there, took control of that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, remove it off the maps because it's there prior to them taking ownership of that land. So, I mean, it's clear that there was a road there. and then they came in, CIA said, take it out. And S-4 might have had already an installation— not, it wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already because they were, it was a mine. So it was an easier way to build a big facility in the, in the side of the hill.

Makes sense. It does make sense. And then there's also the images that you got of what looks like the hangar bay doors, right, that are camouflaged.

And I have to say, That—

gotta go again. Yeah, sorry. No worries.

That's all good. That prostate problem—

technology will fix that. It'll remove your prostate, turn you into a fucking alien. So though that image that you got of the— unfortunately it's kind of blurry, but it— you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflage garage bay doors.

I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell, and I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe. Everybody, everybody was trying to get in and find— getting to make me work with them or use something they found. So I was, I was ignoring 95, 99% of people's— like, it's getting tiring. Everybody's like, you got to listen to me. I know stuff about that. I'm like, whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I have enough right now. And but this guy, I— we had built the base and I knew exactly where it was. I knew exactly the layout. And this guy, he not only contacted me, but he sent me an image that he had, that he had drawn. He didn't want to send me the real— what he had found, but he says, here it is, this is where the doors are, and this is exactly where they, they point to. I looked at the image and I said, not bad. I mean, he really nailed it in the image. And I I thought, okay, I, I, at first I thought somebody on my team leaked something we had, to be honest. I'm like, ah, who did that?

Who sent out one of our renders to somebody? And because that's what I thought, and they're like, no, no, no, this is what— so I, I talked to this guy and, uh, he's a, he's really, really good at researching, and he ended up becoming probably one of the I've ever— like, he's one of the best I've ever seen. His name is Scott Mitchell. And he says there are pictures that were taken in 2020. And ironically, those pictures were taken on December 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID which means the base might have been shut down. If you think about that, you know what I mean? Like, it's COVID. It's like in the heat of it. Plus it's 25th of December. So there's probably nothing going on there. And this private, uh, uh, pilot in a small Cessna requested access inside the perimeter, and they granted him permission. And he had a big Nikon camera on board with a big telescopic zoom, and he took a shit ton of pictures. And they're amazing. They're all public. They're all available. You could download them. And there's this— these pictures of Papoose Lake and the hill.

But they were being used on the internet for a long time. Everybody was like, see, Bob Lazar is a fraud. It's not real. There's nothing there. Well, of course you can't see it. It's, first of all, 17 miles away. And secondly, they're not designed for you to see it. And that also, let's talk about something that Bob was talking about in 1988. The picture was taken in 2020. I mean, there could be a different landscape now. Anyway, so he said, look, this image, if you change the contrast, you got to keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image. You know, anybody who knows how to use that, do that with photography, you can do that. And he pulls out these geometric shapes. You could see them. They're like little, they look like rectangles. And I thought, 'What if this is not real?' I was super skeptical, I'll be honest with you. I wasn't— we're talking about the picture with the doors on the hangar doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we have in the film. Oh, right, right. And so I didn't believe it. I thought, 'There's no way.' I go, 'There's no way this is real.

I don't believe it.' So Scott was really cool. He said, 'Look, man, I understand you're skeptical. I get it.' I want you to do me a favor. Go online, search it yourself. I won't even tell you where it is. I'll just tell you what— who took the pictures. The only thing he gave us is the picture number is 0501. That's what the picture number is. He goes, if you find it, have whoever on your team playing around with it until you see it. That was fair because I said okay, because I mean, if it's out there There's two different places it was on online, and the one place we got it from was the source of it. Okay, was the— from the photographer, the guy himself. We take it. I had three different people on my team. Everybody's really good at all this stuff on my team. So I said, guys, this is what we need to see. If you guys could pull it up, I'm not going to be as skeptical. Everybody got it almost in the same time. They were playing around, and eventually the, the easiest software we used to get that detail out was DaVinci Resolve.

And with DaVinci, it's a faster process than if you're messing around with Photoshop or whatever. And it came, and I was like, oh my God, it, it's, it's really there. You could clear— so what I did is I had them scan the rest of the picture because it's pixels, right? So I said, let's also see if it's not some pixelation. Is it maybe just what the photo does? Maybe we just got lucky and it looks like that there. Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere and it doesn't. And then I said, all right, go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want— because the guy kept snapping pictures. I want you to do the same. Like we went really military. Like I said, I want to make sure This is, this is real. I don't— I'm not gonna put our name on this if it's not. And it ended up being— other pictures also show it, by the way, because he went click, click, click. So it's like, it's not just that one. That's the clearest one. And so I was at a certain point, I go to Bob's house and I'm sitting there and the guy calls me, Scott Mitchell calls me, and he has no idea I'm with Bob Lazar.

Mark. So I pick up, it's a video call, and he goes, hey man, what's going on? I said, well, look, I said, look who I'm with. And he just like exploded because he was like, oh my God, you're with Bob. And I said, show him. And so Bob was there and we showed it. We ended up transferring the call on a Zoom call and he showed it. And you said, yeah, like I remember you going, yeah, that's it.

Yeah. Yeah. That—

what did that look like to you when you saw those images?

Yeah, that was, that was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. What was really shocking was that the first hangar was bigger. Yeah, yeah, because that was the big hangar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because the first hangar is a big hangar and there's smaller ones. And I said, Jesus, the first hangar is bigger. You— yeah, you found it, you found it. So I mean, that, that was— I, I just lit up at that point.

Yeah, it was. What happens if you look at that site with Google Earth?

That is with the Google Earth.

No, no, that was the picture, but Google Earth. But Google Earth, and I'll tell you something about Google Earth. That wasn't with Google Earth? No, the picture is a real photo. The picture of the hangar doors is a real photo.

Oh, okay, I thought that was Google Earth.

No, no, the picture is a real photo. The Google Earth though, you see that in the film. Yeah. I can't make this up. I didn't want to put anything in the film. That was one of my things. I did not want to put anything in the film that would make me, the whole team, or even Bob look like we're trying to like MacGyver some something in there. It has to be you go look for it yourself. It's public. If you don't believe it, go check it out yourself. That's how— that's what was— that's the only thing we allowed in there. And when you go on Papoose Lake on June 20th, so June 22nd of 2024, June of 2024, Google Earth changed. There's— you're going to be right over Papoose Lake. If you zoom in, you're not going to notice it because it's kind of a yellowish tint to the image. And I remember going, why is it so yellow? I mean, I'd been there so many times. I was like, why the fuck is it turned so yellow? And I'm like, so I'm zooming out and I'm like, why did they fuck it up? I thought I thought, they fucking ruined everything.

It's all yellow. And as I go further, you see this box that is like right over Papoose. So I'm like, what is that? And I put my mouse over it. And wherever you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024. And as soon as you put your mouse outside of the box, well, it's an older date. And I Oh, they just did that. And the— so I think what they thought they were gonna do is that new filter right over Papoose Lake removes every possible detail on the terrain, the landscape, where the brushes are and the Joshua trees are. It really, really removes all that. Blurs it. Blurs everything out. But it makes— they made a mistake lake. They made a huge error, I believe so. And I think if they're listening, they're gonna go, yeah, our bad, to the, to the DOD. Because they're gonna— because you see all the tracks on the lake. It, for some reason, that filter accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake and removes the landscape brushes. I don't know why it just did that. And I was like, Holy shit, you see all these tracks.

What it looks like is they're trying to purposely obscure the area. Yes. And the fact that it's in a very clear box. Yeah. And you talked about that in the film. Yeah. It's kind of bonkers.

And what's really— no reason. There's no reason to pick one little square box. Why? I don't know why. That nobody goes to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So try to obscure it.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I thought, Jesus, we got to put this in there. I mean, it's so cool.

Right? It's all very compelling. I think we should wrap this up, but the film's excellent. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Tell— it took a tremendous amount of effort, and I could tell by watching you watch it when we watched it together that it had an insane impact on you. And you had already seen it before I saw it with you, so you're just seeing it again. It's just like— it's bonkers.

Yeah, it really affected me. And is, is there anything else you want to say? There's a couple things I want to bring up. Okay. You know, yeah, just because I've heard stuff Luigi has told me. People think that I make millions of dollars off of this stuff. Oh yeah. And I don't. I would, I would love to sign on to the millions of dollars program. You know, Jeremy made, made his movie and And I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's movie. I said, anything you make, give to George. You know, Luigi has spent millions of dollars of his own money, literally, right? Literally. You know, making this stuff. And I can't see how he's ever going to make the money back. If he does, that's awesome. I drive a 1980-something. Not a 1980. You drive a— No, 19— 2018 Chevy Bolt electric car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing to drive. It cost me $18,000. You know, my house on the 10 acres cost $450 grand. And, you know, back when I, when I got it, I mean, that's— I work 6 to 7 days a week at United Nuclear, my business.

I mean, if there's If there's anyone that wants to give me millions of dollars, please contact me immediately because I would like to retire. But no, I don't make millions of dollars off this stuff. And I— my wife and I do fine. We grow our food in our greenhouse and we live in our little place up in the mountains and that's it. But I, you know, this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's here.

I think the film's gonna be very successful, and I think you're probably gonna make money off of it. At least I'm hoping.

No, he'll make money off of it.

Well, you know, thank you, Joe.

I think we should wrap it up. Thank you very much, Luigi. Thank you, Joe. Knocked it out of the park. Thank you. It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you again, as always.

I'm sorry I had to pee so much.

That's okay. It's understandable. It's understandable. And again, And the film, let's show it on the screen, Jamie, so people can know where they could see it, when it's available.

Yeah, it's available actually as of right now.

Let's play the trailer.

We'll end it with— Yeah, let's do that.

S4: The Bob Lazar Story. We'll end it with a trailer.

It's on Amazon and—

We Are Not Alone.

We Are Not Alone, right? Physical evidence now exists which proves that there is life elsewhere, and at least one form of that life has been here. As of 1989, that evidence Evidence was in the custody of the United States government. Between December of 1988 and April of 1989, I worked as a senior staff physicist in what has to be the most secret project in history. My job in this program was to be part of a back-engineering team. This particular disk appeared to be in excellent condition, and because of its sleek appearance, I knew nicknamed it the Sport Model. The goal in this program was to see if the technology of the disk could be duplicated with Earth materials. To start up the reactor, of course, we need some element 115. In fact, you need 223 grams machined into a wedge like this. The program out at S-IV consisted of 3 projects: Project Galileo, Project Sidekick and Project Looking Glass. The file on top was Project Galileo, and as it turned out, that's the project that I was part of, and that clearly referred to reverse engineering a recovered alien spacecraft. Just cannot be a secret from, from anyone, not just the American people, but the the rest of the world.

All this stuff is something that happened to him.

It's not who he is. They're doing everything they can to keep this information secret.

That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft to do that, thanks to him. Now this story spills and the world changes. Bye for now.