Transcript of JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

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Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. All right. Champ is here. Last time I saw you. I think it was before the Majarow fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight? I believe so. It was before that fight. And that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo. And everybody was like, That's crazy. He's going to go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above. That's nuts. Everybody's got to shut the fuck up now.

You know when I say skills, pay the bills.

They do. Skills are everything, man. But the thing is, it's interesting. I watched both the Kanele fight and the Majumov fight again recently, and Majumov looked bigger. He looked bigger than Kanello.

It was really interesting. He was a big dude.

He's a big dude. I wonder what that guy walks around at because it's not 154.

No, not at all. He's a big guy. He just fought that 160 in his last fight.

Did he? Yeah. Yeah. Really an outstanding performance against Canelo. Like I was telling you before, it was a great I told you so fight for me because there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans. They just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump. He's too experienced. You got it? You made it look, I want to say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. It was such a clear victory. At one point when you were pitty-patten him and then firing off hard shots, I was like, Oh, my goodness. He's feeling it.

Yeah. I was in my element. I was in the zone, mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, telling me I was going to get knocked out. I was too small. I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, I'm I'm going to show you all what I'm really about, because this is not the first time that I didn't heard that, Oh, he can't do this. He can't do that.

I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime, because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying, Roy Jones, other than James Toney, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody. I was like, No, he's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good. If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say these guys are awesome.

For sure. I've been dealing with that my whole career. People getting so much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out. If they beat them, Oh, such and such beat this guy. But me, it's, Oh, you're fighting tomato cans or you're fighting bones and things like that.

It was just because you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they I try to find flaws in every great performance. And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, Yeah, but who are these guys that he beat? But you beat great guys.

Champions. Yeah.

Listen, one of the more interesting fights to me was a Benavides fight. I rewatched that again recently, too. That was a good fight. Especially that, because there's so much tension. There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions.

And he could fight. He could fight. A lot of people They're looking at his injury, and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same. So that's another thing that they're going to say, Oh, well, he had got shot in a leg, and if he didn't, then this would have happened or that would have happened. I'm like, he fought the same. If you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from his boxing standpoint. He wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that used his legs as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grand assault.

Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he fought the same. And He fought well. I mean, he's a tough guy. He fought really well.

Took me twelve rounds.

Yeah, listen. But that right uppercut in that twelve round to put him down. I was like, oh, my goodness. I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh, there it is. There it is. You I found him.

Yeah, he had good hair movement. Tough guy. He was ducking them hooks and them straight punches. So I was just like, all right, I got to switch it up.

Well, also, he believed in himself.

For Sure. Definitely.

He came into that fight to win.

Definitely. Most definitely.

It's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve because I felt like, man, if you retired after this Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skillset. The people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did. But I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit. And so the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the Sunday.

Yeah, it was. And even now, a lot of people saying, Oh, well, Canelo's washed. He's old. And I'm like, Well, I'm older than him. What are we talking about? I just love it Because it just shows what level I'm on for everybody to already know what happened. And then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened. So I just be like, Man, it's cool.

That's boxing, though. That's sports in general. You're always going to have that. There's always going to be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit. But for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or where they have difficulty signing big fights, it's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad, the people were like, Oh, shit. I think he was like 30 '87 or 36 when he fought Trinidad. And a lot of people were saying, he's washed up, it's over. And when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, Oh, okay.

Yeah. I've been calling out everybody since the beginning. They created a whole side of the street because of me. I'm with a different promoter. It was always something. And everybody always blamed me. But now look at everybody now. All the promoters working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way. And I don't think too many other fighters can say that.

That's true. Yeah. It's a dirty business, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter avoid certain fighters. It's always been that way. And it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many... The big one for a long time was David Benavides and Canelo. Everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you got to think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavides.

No, not at all. I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benavides is going to come in the ring. Benavides is a great fighter, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter. And I just think Canelo knows why would I want to get in the ring with this guy that's going to be massive come fight time. And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills because Canelo is not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career and beating them with skills So you got to tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished. Absolutely. Being 5'7, going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and actually winning. Knocked out Kovalev.

I mean, it was Kovalev later in his career, but he's still Kovalev. For sure. And then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime. For sure. I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavides fight, the Bivol fight, because I think after that fight, he's like, Okay, this is a little big. Because Bivol, not just big, but he's got that Russian style, light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out. To a boxer. It's a difficult style to handle. Then The only guy to be, Beterbiev, was another beast.

Yeah. So I think him knowing that. And then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavides had persuade him to go elsewhere. But there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they wanted to fight. Right. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryer. They never got that fight. And that just won a mini. So it's going to be like that.

Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed to. And that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. This is like all the bullshit. It's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like all the bullshit's gone. It's like now everybody's got to give you your just do because that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was one of the all-time great performances because it was a Canelo that's... You could say whatever you want. I think he's still in his prime. And you just outboxed him. And you outboxed him I mean, think about it, 40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68. And you outboxed him. Thirty-five first. That's right. Thirty-five first, right? That's right. That's crazy. That's crazy. Going up from 35 to 68 and outboxing the champ. And the way you did it, too, it was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man. When you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight to watch because, you know, Canal is a dangerous guy. He's a heavy puncher, and he puts a lot of power into his punches.

He's changed over the years and really relied more on his power. But, man, he knows how to land it. And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble. And he just There was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even brought the hand back. So he was going to counter and you were throwing a quick hook. I was like, Oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty.

Trying to catch him in the counter. You know, Canelo is a great counterpuncher. So you got to beat him to it. You got to counter to counter at times.

Did that fight play out the way you thought it was going to play out?

Yeah, most definitely.

Exactly the way he thought it.

Most definitely. We knew what we was up against. When I went to his fight against Berlinga and against the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name, Munguia. Munguia When I was with Turkey, I said, Turkey, he can't beat me. Just watching him from 135 to now, like live. I'm looking at him, I'm just like, I I can beat this, dude. My confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, Yeah, he can't fight like that against me, which he didn't, which he definitely rose his game. But I just believed in myself that much that nothing was going to stop me from getting that victory that night.

The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like under motivated. It wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same shape physically, like when you look at him.

He wasn't. And it happens. That's why I always train like, this is the toughest fight of my career, because it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about. Right. Them be the ones that sneak up on you and you got to be ready for them. But he didn't come to fight. He moved the whole fight and Canelo was frustrated. He was just like, Man, this dude didn't come to do anything.

He came to survive.

Yeah. So I could see where he was frustrated at.

Yeah. Well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either. So he probably said, Listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good.

Yeah.

It's It's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. And it's interesting how that changes, how people now look at your body. And then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, Errol Spence can fight, man. He's a really good fighter. And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had, and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought. And But now with the Canelo victory, you're in this rare air of mentioned as one of the greatest of all time. There's a handful of guys. It's very difficult to say the greatest of all time because people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson. They throw Floyd in the mix, primetime Roy Jones. There's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time. But you are now in that conversation. That's got to be nice.

It's beautiful, especially all the hard work that I didn't put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. Since I was seven years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting. I've been a fighter since day one. So when people compare me to Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard, comparing me to who will win, who will win, that just let me know that I did my I did a job well in the sport.

Oh, you absolutely did. Now, you definitely done, done?

It's over.

It's definitely over?

Yeah. I told a couple of my close friends. I said, okay, since 2014, I've been fighting for something, a title. I won my first title in March of 2014. Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles, undisputed titles, undisputed disputed, titles, undisputed. Like, just everything that I've been fighting for. Now, I just come back and it's just like, all right, what's the motivation? Just money? All right, so what is on top of that? Because my thing was the money going to come. I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be when I finished boxing. I wanted to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time. And I think I did that. So now it's like this last fight that I had, the height of it, there's no better finish than that to me. What was on the line, coming from where I came from, all the odds that were stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through and camp to get to that fight. It was just like, Man, you did everything right. So what can top that?

I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your Championship experience, all the weight classes you competed in, unde and beat Canelo, another all-time great. I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career. It's pretty dope. For sure. And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money.

It's nice. It's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point to entertain the fans. We go through a lot. We put our body through a lot. And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourself, they don't care about us. They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion. And we go to the fight. You see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights, and people just walk past them. They on to the next. Oh, let's see the young fighter. And it's like, they use you up till you have nothing left. Then they forget about you. So it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first, because Because once it's over with, it's over with. And you can't get your health back. You can always get money elsewhere. But once your mind is messed up, it's over with.

That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see, too, to see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out on top and done. And So many fighters have said that. And then a couple of years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting. They go, Man, I think I got one more in me. And then maybe they're buying a lot of shit. That's the real problem.

It's always going to be that I got another one in me. I got another one in me because they missed that high of all the fans chatting their name and everybody, cameras, lights. They miss it. But I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. Really? Yeah, I can have the lights. Just pay me and I go under the rock somewhere, take care of my family. I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention.

How come?

Because that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed. I'll be under the radar.

I do like that. You show up by yourself. But one time you showed up at one of the UFC's and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar, and they put it on the fucking screen. And I didn't catch it because I was doing the broadcast. But I was like, Are you guys out of your fucking... You don't know who Terrence Crawford is, and you're in combat sports? This is crazy.

I think they did that on purpose.

No, no way. They had to. No, no, no, no, no. It was just some moron in the truck. Yeah. Yeah. No, 100 %. They did not do that on purpose. No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that. No chance.

I was sitting next to everybody and I was like, did they really just do that?

No, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumb ass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason. It was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast. I don't know who it was. I didn't even want to know. I'd tell them.

For sure.

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People would be so surprised that they'll see me in the airport. They'll be like, You by yourself? Man, this is crazy. I would always imagine you with Security guards, big entourage. That's just a bill. You got to pay all them people to be around you.

That's true, too. Yeah. Every time you showed up at the studio, you show up by yourself. Yeah. It's another good example for young fighters to realize, at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff. It's very temporary. It's very fleeting. It goes away. Legacy. Legacy and the glory of your accomplishments, that stays forever. And the respect of people in boxing that really know. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's what it's all about. And you've got that. Now, everybody has to shut the fuck up. Yeah, they do. Everybody has to shut the fuck up. Even the people that said that all Canelo's didn't stop. You were the same people saying Canelo was going to stop him.

You're the same people that saying Eero Spence was going to stop me. You're the same people that saying Majumoff was going to stop me and so forth. So It just got to the point where they got to accept it now. It's like, Man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, and he's been proving me wrong time after time. It's like, Let me just give him his flowers. Forget it.

That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it, does it perfectly, and does it in a way that is very unusual because you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best. God, that is such an underrated skill. It was so funny. One of the times you were in here, you were telling me that your coach told you, Stop doing that.

Yeah. He was like, You need to focus on fighting orthodox the right way instead of switching to Southpaw, I was just like, All right, switch to Southpaw again. Then he was like, All right, well, you're going to do that. We're going train like that. I was like, All right, let's train like it because I'm going to keep switching because it just came so natural.

I'll be in there, boom, boom, boom, boom, And I win. He was like, All right, we're going to fight. We're going to train like that. Well, it's such an underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch. Different angles, all that. In MMA, it's become commonplace. In the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other. And now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching because it hides combinations. It hides different techniques. There's so many different things you could do in MMA because you're switching and kicking, you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're in southpaw, and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. There's so much overload of the mind where you have to calculate all these different things. And if you don't spot car on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up inside the cage.

Yeah, because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other. And then when you switch on them, it's just like, I hate fighting Southpaws. Right. And it just do something to their brain because they might be slower moving one way than the other way.

Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and then you Your brain has to...

Got to worry about the hook instead of the straight.

Everything's different. I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now, because I think the conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's South Paul or Orthodox, stick with that. There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part, stick with that. But I don't think that's the way to go. I think great fighters have stayed in one stance, but I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up.

It's always beneficial if you can have it and not need it, then if you need it, then you got it. Yes. Okay. It's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got it in my bag just in case I have it. Yes. That's like me. I got it all.

Yeah. Do you think you're going to train people When you're done?

I'll be training a little bit. I'll be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet. I get frustrated, and I have to remember, like my coach, Bomex, say, Everybody's not you, bud. Everybody don't adapt like you. Everybody not as athletic like you. So you can't be frustrated if they're not getting something as fast as you're getting it. You've been doing this since you were seven. It's some of these kids that started when they were teenagers. So you got to give them grace and take your time with them. And some of them, they're flat footed and you just got to train them into their style. Everybody not going to have your style. So when he explained that to me, I was just like, Hey, you're right. Let me back up a little bit and just tell him what I see more so than trying to coach him into being this fighter that I want them to be.

Being a version of you. Yeah. Yeah. That's got to be difficult, right? Because everybody does have a different style, and you're never going to convince some fighters to fight your way. But the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, there's a lot of great fighters, like Freddie Roach that had some boxing matches but was never an elite boxer, but still was a great coach. And But to have an elite fighter, to be a coach, there's an element of that. First of all, there's an element from the young guy coming up, you want to impress. You got Terrence Crawford in your corner. You want to impress him. Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job, and he became a great trainer. There's a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like, I always wonder because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young guys. There's so much small, minutiae, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on that would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges.

Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them on that aspect when they're in the ring or when they're on the bag or when they're in the midst. It's shadow boxing, just little details. I come in the gym and you see the little kids, they see me and they look to the corner and they hit the back. Yeah, they can fire it up. You can see they're trying to get my attention. I come over there, then And give them some little wisdom. They're appreciative. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. My son wrestling next door, and they over here boxing. And I'm both one side and the other side.

So it's good. Your son just won a wrestling title?

Yeah. He just won a state as a freshman.

That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. That's so amazing. What does he want to do?

He want to go D1. He told me Saturday, after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said, Dad, I want to go to Olympics. I said, You want to? What mind state is that? I said, You're going to go. I said, You got to have it in your mind. You're going. You can't say you want to go. You got to say, I'm going to the Olympics. That way you know you're already programming it for the future.

How did you learn that mentality?

Man, being Been doubted my whole life. Being doubted my whole life. And my coach, Mids Minor, used to always say, Lottie-dottie, we fight anybody. They ain't fought you yet. And I just carried that on my shoulders. Anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fought me yet. So you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me. So just like my son, you got to have that confidence that whatever you say you want to do, you're going to go out and do it. But you got to put the work there first.

So in that sense, doubters give you fuel?

Oh, yeah.

It's a lot of people like that. A lot of people like that. They live off the haters.

They fuel me up. It's crazy because like Majumov and Canelo, they were so respectful, and I respect them. I've been a fan of Majumov coming from Uzbekistan and learning about them and hearing about them. And I always been a fan of Canelo since I could remember. So I didn't have that killer in my heart. I wanted to beat him. But my other fights, I was like, Man, I want to knock this dude out.

Like Benavidas?

Yeah. I wanted to knock him out. So even in training, I didn't have that rage. This dude talking shit. They never got under my skin. It was always respectful. So it was like, I want to whip their ass, but I didn't want to inflict pain. I wanted to knock him out.

There was one fighter you fought at 140. His name is escaping me. But you stopped him in the... Yes.

Yeah, I wanted I'm not going to knock him out. Oh, boy. Yeah. And I was so mad. When you watched that fight, when they stopped it, I missed two crazy hooks. And I just was like, Man, why couldn't I land him? He would have went to sleep. That's how I was saying it. You weren't happy with just stopping him. Yeah, I wanted to put him to sleep. But it's a sport and it is what it is. And I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it years down the line.

Yeah. Well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport. It's like you're legitimately putting your life on the line. Yeah.

And a lot of people don't understand that until something happened.

Right.

Us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in that ring. A lot of boxers have went in a ring one way and left it a different way. So when a lot of fans, they criticize size boxers for doing what the sport is for, and that's boxing. Us boxers, you're not even here getting your brains beat out. So what you When we consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do. It's box. I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters they just do for boxing, like Floyd, like Shaqar. When they're pure boxers, they want to see people bleeding, battered, knocked out. But they're not thinking about the after-maf and the after-effects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, piss and blood and things like that. Like your body is not meant to be be on like that. So they just looking at, oh, I'll pay this money. You all are going to go in there and kill each other. And I think that's wrong.

Yeah. Well, you're always going to have morons in this world. You're always going to have casuals. You're always going to have people that don't appreciate what they're seeing. But when I see a performance like Shaqar versus Tiafima in that last fight, that was art. That was art. That sneaky jab where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab. And you could see a Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it. He didn't know what to do. It was beautiful. It barely got hit. It was beautiful.

And things like that. You see two high caliber fighters, but you just see one just on a different level because of his boxing IQ. Not because Tio Fimo didn't belong in the ring with him. It's just that Shaqar IQ and his boxing ability Is up here.

Yes.

He didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give Tio Fimo the opportunity to land a good shot and change the outcome of the fight. One shot, I don't care who you is in a right spot at the right moment, anybody can get knocked out.

Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched. It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers. And when you see a guy like Tiafimo, Tiafimo can crack. He's a big dude, and he's a world champion. And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever where you see one world champion challenging another world champion. For sure. I mean, it It was art. To me, every moment of that fight, up until the 12th round, there was multiple times I was like, Oh, my God. It was just beautiful. I love watching a guy at the pinnacle, watching a guy where everybody else has got to go, wow, I didn't think it was going to go like this. Because Tia Fimo is a super aggressive guy, beat Lomachenko, he's got a nasty jab, throws big power in his punches, he's tough as hell. A lot of people are like, this is going to be a tough fight. And Shakur just... And he didn't run. He stood right in front of him. That's the other thing. He wasn't getting hit, and he was right in front of him. I mean, that was art.

That was art. That's boxing at the highest level. And I'm fascinated because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia. I am fascinated to watch that fight because Shakur is a different animal. Ryan looked amazing in that fight. I I mean, he looked amazing. I mean, he looked so fast, and it was a beautiful fight to watch. But that's an interesting fight. I like that fight. Shakoar and him. I like that fight a lot because Shakoar is a different animal. You're dealing with a whole different skillset.

Yeah, Shaqar. Listen, I went down to camp before he fought Tia Fimo, and I seen his focus in the level of intense training he was doing. And I said, I don't know at all, but I know Shaq-Ori going to whip Tia Fimo's eyes. I tweeted that way before the fight, and he went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in his fight for what it was. I don't think Barrios came to fight. Ryan was boxing great. The jab was working, the overhand right was working. And And he looks out at me at the end and said, You see my jab? I said, Man, it was working. That jab was beautiful because we're not used to seeing Ryan jab. Right. Or his right-hand. Or boxing, for that matter. He was boxing beautiful. And I commend him on that. He aced it. But when it comes to Shaqar, Shaqar is not a Barrios. Shaqar got a jab. Shaqar got hand movement. Shaqar got defense. Shaqar knows range. Shaqar have good legs. So I look at that fight like it's not going to be as a competitive fight like everybody think, because if Ryan get careless, he's going to get countered all day.

If he gets careless, I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios.

He got to.

Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed. I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot, but that's not a knock. That's just like, if you had it, everybody should rely on that. That's a speed of nuts. Shakoar is a different animal. That's what I'm saying. A lot of people thought Devon Haney was different, though, right? A lot of people thought Devon Haney was going to give him real problems. When he dropped Devon early with a left hook, everybody was like, Oh, this is different. I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted everything.

They know each other far too well. I think him and Devon fought each other the most, had all of them. Shakoar and Ryan fought as well, which Shakoar won all the times that they fought. But I just think him and Devon, the history of it, Devon came in there overconfident. Ryan being juiced up, added a little whatever it did. But you can't take away from him landing the punches that he was landing. You can't take away from the performance that he was doing. But when you're on steroids, that add, too.

It definitely adds something. What did he get popped for?

Do you remember? I don't even know.

I just know. Jamie, find That's not what he got popped for. It was a very low level of whatever he got popped for. And a lot of people say, Oh, the levels, it wouldn't even matter. It's such a small level. The problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you have in your system. And that's one of the reasons why the UFC banned IVs, because you can flush your body out if you superhydrate with IVs. I don't know what you're supposed to put in the IV, but there's some nutrients that you can put in IVs that will mask any traces of performance-enhancing drugs, which is why, at UFC, you have to hydrate. This is drug-free sports policy and USADA's policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids. You can't hydrate with an IV. And when you use an IV, which I don't know, were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate?

I don't know.

When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit. So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's still... What did he test positive for? I missed which fighter you're talking about? Ryan Garcia. Oh, that's right. Ryan Garcia, when he fought Devon Haynie, the fight got overturned, right? It was a no contest, which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory. One of his best victories ever. Dropped Devon, had him in trouble a bunch of times. Dropped him how many times?

A few.

Yeah, a few times. He looked fucking great in that fight. Yeah, he did. And I think, unfortunately, that positive drug test. Just... Osterine? Osterine, yeah. Okay.

I think both of those fights is great fights for Ryan. Ryan is in a He's in a great position right now. Oh, yeah. He got the Roley unification fight. He lost to Roley. He got that fight that he can try to avenge in a unification fight.

Roley looked great in that fight.

He got Devon in a unification fight. He got Shaqar in a spectacular fight. So Ryan's in a great position right now.

If Javante comes back, he's got that rematch.

I don't think Javante is going to fight him without having those type of claws.

The rehydration clause?

Yeah. Bring him down. You got to do this and you got to do that.

That's crazy. Those clauses are crazy. You can't weigh more than X for you to get into the I'm like, I'm going to knock off with that.

That's like with me and Canelo. I'm like, Man, listen, I'm challenging you. You can weigh whatever you want. I don't want no excuses. Hey, it is what it is. All you got to do is weigh 168. The day before. After that, it is what it is.

Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do. Yeah.

That's where they got it from.

The thing is, these guys see that big number. They see those purses and they go, Oh, I could fight good. I'll just get a little smaller beforehand. It's just not smart.

Yeah. Your body is not going to react when it's not fully hydrated.

No, not a chance. It's the worst way to fight. I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice. They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut?

The most I ever had to cut, probably 25.

That's a lot. What weight was that? 35 or 40?

47.

47? Really? Wow.

My last fight was Spence.

And when did you start your cut?

Months. Months out? Yeah, months out.

So the week of the fight, what were you at?

Probably like 152, 54.

Oh, okay. That's very good. That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked-up way.

Them last couple of pounds is tough. Them last couple pounds of tough. And I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with. But the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135. That was killing me.

What were you walking around at back then?

Probably in the '50s. Like '55.

And so would you just lower your calories in camp? In camp? Everything.

I got to change my whole diet.

And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting 35?

I don't even remember. When I was cutting probably like seven pounds the week of the fight.

See, in the MMA world, that's nothing.

These guys are cut crazy. Because they wait till the last minute. I know a lot of MMA fighters. They just dehydrate themselves. Yeah, they wait till the last minute. But mine, I got to start gradually because I never want to go in there and just tank. So I got to change my eating habits up months, like two months in advance. That way I can get my body used to being lighter and performing at that weight class. Because if not, you doing more of hurting yourself than good because you're taking all the fluid it out of your brain.

Exactly.

I couldn't be at no disadvantage like that.

And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out. Definitely. Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at 185, and he would weigh 225 when he fought, which is bananas. That's 40 fucking pounds.

I think that's why I got... When I fought Gamboa, when I got hurt in a ninth round. But I stopped him in the ninth round, but that was part of that. Boom, caught me with a clean shot. Boom. I was like, Oh, shit. Until this day, That's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever. A lot of people thought, Mean Machine, drive me, Mean Machine, hurt me. Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots, but nothing was like that, Gamboah. My whole leg locked up. And I was just like, Man, I got to grab this dude.

And you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that?

Yeah, definitely. What weight was that at? 135.

Yeah, 135. You're a big guy, man. That's a lot of weight to cut. That's the most problematic part of MMA for sure. I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that. They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and trying to figure out what to do.

It was crazy, though, because I always been skinny. A lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully. He's this, he's that. And it's like, bro, I came from 132. You see a lot of these fighters, they're in the amateurs. Like Sean Porter, he was at 165, then he went to 147. A lot of people, they was heavier, then they dropped weight. I was at 132, and I moved up to I was still at 135 as a professional, and I was cool with the weight. Then I just started filling out once I start working out more and doing a little strength and condition. My body started filling out. So I kept moving up. But the weight that I was at with Canelo, that's the most comfortableest time of my career to be able to eat whatever I want, not focus on Did you feel much better in the ring because of that? I did. I did because that was the only time that I had to eat to keep my weight on.

Wow.

And it's like, I'm not used to Doing that? I'm used to, we got portions. It's like they feed me big meals. I'm like, I can't eat all this. That was the one camp that it was like the weight wasn't an issue.

Do you have a nutritionist in camp? Yes. And so how do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs? It's all weighed out? All that. Yeah. And then they weigh you, check you, make you body fat?

They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning.

What did you weigh when you got into the ring?

I think I was like 72.

Okay. It's just a few pounds. Yeah. Nothing.

I didn't weigh. I'll probably a couple of pounds.

The only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling. And it plays a big advantage if you got a lot of weight on a guy. That's why a lot of guys do it. It's also, MMA is Very flawed. And one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes. There's just not enough weight classes. There's giant leaps. Between 205, the next weight class is heavyweight. So it's 205 to 265. 185, the next weight class is 205. That's 20 pounds. That's nuts. 170 to 185. 15 fucking pounds is a lot. A lot.

That's a lot. Seven pounds is a lot.

55 to 70. Seven pounds is a lot.

A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at 47 than I was at 40. And that's only seven pounds. That's seven pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut. And a lot of people think, oh, it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140. If it's just 5 pounds, that matters.

Yes, it matters a lot. And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155. They can't make the weight, and then they're too small for 170. Because at 170, you got guys that are never going to make 155. They're coming down from 210, and they're getting to 170, and they're jacked.

I know somebody that was coming out from 230, fighting at 165.

Oh, my God. Who was that?

I'm not going to say his name.

Well, Anthony Rumbel Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw.

230.

Anthony Rumbel Johnson was 230, and he was fighting in 170. I ran into Rumbel once. Rest in peace. He died a few years back. I ran into Rumbel once when He was fighting at 170, and he was in between fights, and I ran into him at the hotel, and he was a fucking heavyweight. He was so big. I go, What do you weigh? And he said, 230. I'm like, Dude, that's crazy. You have to cut 60 pounds? But it was killing him. It was killing him, literally to the brink of death the day before a fight. That's nuts. That doesn't make any sense. And they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there. Yeah. Not smart. No.

At all.

No. I think for MMA, they really need to recognize this, that one of the things that's going to stop weight cuts is give people more weight classes, give people more options. This idea of only having eight champions, I think in MMA, is very, very limiting. It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and win after Championship. In MMA, if you win two belts, that's crazy. That's the only thing anybody has ever done.

Because the weight classes are so far apart.

Exactly. The only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes. No one's done it in three. Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now because he's walking around like 240, which is crazy because he used to fight at 185. It's nuts. But if they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd have more competitive fights. We'd have less extreme weight cutting. We'd have healthier fighters. Just more champions is better. There's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's not a weight class for them. If there's a 20 pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like, whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass. And the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of that, it's pretty significant. So for a lot of fighters, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is. It just they don't have a chance. Yeah. It sucks.

It does.

It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of MMA.

Any sport.

Any sport. But in boxing, it's not as extreme. No one really does it. Jerry McClellan used to do it. He got real big in between fights, real big. But that cost him in the Nigel Ben fight. I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. That's probably one of the contributing factors to why he's so hurt right now. And that fucked Roy up, too, because back at the time, that was his biggest rival was Jerry. And Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me.

Yeah. Like, man, like I said, when you lose that weight and you don't understand you're losing that fluid in the back of your brain. And it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating. It's tough.

Yeah. But I mean, boxing has been around longer. They've got it figured out. And unfortunately, or fortunately, the UFC dominates MMA, and they only have eight weight classes. So everybody else only has eight weight classes. California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes, but nobody... The UFC has a heavyweight limit. That's crazy that is? Isn't that stupid?

It's stupid, right? Definitely. Talk to these people. I'm just now learning about that. You didn't know?

No, not at all. You have to weigh 265. So think about Tyson Fury. When Tyson Fury fought Deontay, he was like 280, 285. Imagine he's got to dehydrate himself. He's got to lose 20 fucking pounds just to make the weight class. That's retarded. That doesn't make any sense at all. At all. At all. It's the heavy weight.

It's the heaviest weight we can go.

Remember value-of when he was fighting Nivender Holyfield?

It was huge. Oh, my God.

That was huge. He had to be over 300 pounds. He was a literal giant, an actual giant.

So I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about.

Nobody listens to me, bro. They don't. They don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy.

Well, we got to petition it then.

Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute. So I understand why they don't want to listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in there.

I think these combat sports, it got to come from the fighters. Just like box, I think if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, Oh, since they're cutting a check, they got the power. Right. But they can't cut the check without us. But it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard. Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something. But the fighters that doesn't, they're like, well, you can do that. I got to provide for my family. You can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long it's going to last, but who going to pay my bills? Who going to put food on my family table while we're doing this, while we're making this stand? So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established. And I think That's where the seesaw effect happens with boxing and UFC because there's a lot of things.

Well, UFC is more extreme because it's really just the UFC. I mean, even Francis N'Gano, right? Francis N'Gano One of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA, UFC heavyweight champion. They couldn't get a deal signed, and he winds up leaving. He goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching. Nobody watches. Nobody cares. He knocked out some dude in the PFL, and nobody cared.

Is he making more money?

Yes.

He care.

He cares. Well, that's why he did it.

Yeah, that's all that matters.

He got a great deal with the PFL, and then he got to box. Boxed Tyson Fury, boxed Anthony Joshua.

Doing well.

Doing well. Much, much more money for sure, which is good. But the fortunate and unfortunate. Fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed. They really know how to do it. They do it right. They make stars out of these fighters. They give them all these opportunities. They get the most asses in the seats. Every pay-per-view sells well. When there's a UFC pay-per-view, people line up to see it. There's a bunch of stars in the UFC. But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows who they are. And so if they want to come to the UFC, they have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. So you're leaving an organization... If you're going from small promotion Promotions in boxing, and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight or you're in Golden Boy promotions. You would imagine, now I'm getting paid more money. More people are watching me. But it's not the case. These other organizations, like the PFL, have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at all because everybody wants to fight in the UFC.

It's not a monopoly because there is other options. There's one FC, there's PFL, there's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world. But the reality is, It's like the NFL or like Q-tips. It's like it's got a name. It's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch the... I mean, the XFL, do people watch it? I don't know. But it's not the Super Bowl. It's like there's one big organization. That's the NFL. There's one big MMA organization. That's the UFC. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. So it's very difficult for those guys to hold out for more money.

It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for.

Right.

That's what you got to ask yourself. Is you're doing it for Fame? Is you're doing it to to provide stability for your family? Is it, I need money? What is you doing with that? Legacy. Yeah, definitely legacy.

What is your doing with that? For the greats of the greats, legacy is the primary focus, almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus because otherwise you never achieve greatness. If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that the elite of the elite get. I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog, period. Facts.

That's why I asked, what is you doing it for? Because Ingano, he's already famous. He probably like, okay, well, if you're all going to pay me X amount over here and they When are you going to pay me this, then it makes business sense to go over here. Yes. And that's just like Connor Bearing. He just signed with Zufa. And a lot of people was saying he's disloyal, and Eddie Hursnell was loyal to him, and this and that.

He's getting 15 million for his next- I'm like, Man, what is people talking about?

I said, It's just business. It ain't personal with them, I bet. I said, Connor Ben did what was best for him and his family. I said, Just like the promotional company is going to do what's best for them and their business, if a fighter that they sign lose probably too straight, they get to cut No questions asked. Why? Because now they're wasting money they feel. They feel they don't care about that person's family. They don't care about that person's relationship with them. They're not going in there with their heart like a Oh, man, you're a good buddy. They're like, I'm sorry. It's just business. Cut you. So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do or a manager or anybody else, it's all you're disloyal, you this, you that.

I'm like, make it make sense. It doesn't make any sense in boxing, because in boxing, there's so many promoters. There's so many different people. It's Eddie Burns, Bob Aram. There's so many different promoters. Don King. There's so many different promoters. That's the beauty of boxing, is that There's a lot of competition, and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side. And there's cross promotion. There's no cross promotion in MMA. It doesn't exist. They tried it a little bit in the early days. They sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for pride, and they brought some pride fighters over into the UFC, but they don't do that anymore. That was the early days because the sport wasn't big back then. They were just trying to get big names, and they were trying to work a promotion deal, but Japanese, man, they're clever. When they sold them pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters, turned out all of the contracts were bullshit, none of them were valid. They basically bought pride for, I think they spent $65 million, and they got a library. They just got a video library.

Ufc did?

Yeah, they didn't get shit. They didn't get Fedor. Fedor was the big dog. At one point in time, he was kicking everybody's legs.

I remember.

Fucking everybody up, slamming them, arm bar in them, fucking people up, standing. He was complete. And he was at the same time where Cain Velasquez was in his prime. And that was the fight that they tried to put together. But the Russians, because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore because the contracts at Pride were all bullshit. They had to deal with these Russian gangsters. And these Russian gangsters were like, they wanted a piece of the promotion. They wanted a lot. And the UFC wasn't willing. It got very contentious. The UFC had to up their security. It got sketchy. It got sketchy. They're bad dudes. Those are bad dudes, man. But it's just as a fan, we were robbed. We were robbed of one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport. And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs where you're like, God, we got to see that happen. For a while, it was Floyd and Manny for a while. For a while, it was Floyd and Manny. For a while. And then after Juan Manuel Márquez knocked out Manny, it took a little shine off of that.

And then eventually they fought, but Manny had a hurt shoulder, and now they're going to do it again. They're both 50. It's crazy.

You're going to I'm going to watch it, though.

I'm going to watch it. Fuck you. I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch him fight in Mike. I think that's crazy. He's going to have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Mike is so much bigger than him. He's so much bigger than him.

He's not going to land a fist on Mayweather.

Right.

It's hard. Not after his last performance. I think Tyson just needs to get- What do you think was going on with that?

The last one? It looked a little bit like sparring.

I don't know. I I think it was scripted. I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves. It was taken all that he could not hit him. It's heartbreaking to see an icon go out like that.

But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old. That's nuts.

Yeah, but still, he shouldn't have been in there at all. I think it's other ways. He did the money. It's other ways for people.

But what did he get? He got at least 20, right?

Yeah, but still, I think- But I think he needed that money. Yeah, but with all his connections and things like that, I think people could have put him in the right position to make some money.

If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest. But you know how it is when there's a guy like that that's a big name, usually everybody around him pretends they're looking out for their best interest. But there's always lawsuits later on. You find out someone was stealing money or not paying them what he deserved. There's always a bunch of bullshit involved, unfortunately, especially if you're not business-minded, which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't. Most fighters are concentrated on fighting. To be business-minded, that's a giant distraction. You got to pay attention to all this other shit. On top of that, it's generally not how they think. I mean, look at Floyd. Floyd spends money like it's a tap, like he's got to tap just Just unlimited amount of money. Money is just flowing. And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as much, if not more money than any boxer ever. There's all these lawsuits. He hasn't been paying things, and he owes money on this and those money on that. And then he's got to come out of retirement.

Yeah, that's tough. I think it's just the lifestyle that Floyd live. I think he can't fathom to just Live a modest lifestyle. It's like he got to be lavish.

Right. He's got to have those videos where it shows you all the watches, where it opens the case up.

All the money. He got to show that he got a million dollars in his backpack. He got the latest watch and latest car. And look what I just bought.

And when you get into latest watches and latest cars, you get into that shit. Like, boy, that money goes quick. Bugatti's are like three million. There's watches that are three, five million. That's crazy. So you buy a watch in a car, you're down 10. That's nuts. That's nuts. Crazy. I remember Iran Barkley was talking about that. Iran Barkley, when he was in his prime, was hanging out with all these professional athletes, and everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that. And he was keeping up with these people. You got to keep up with the Joneses. And he just found himself draining all of his money. He was talking about it like that was the biggest His detriment to him being able to save any money.

They're trying to keep up.

Yeah, which I thought was funny when I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ochocinco. He was talking about it. He was like- Is Jury fake? He was wearing fake jewelry.

But who would know? What's that? Who would know? He had Chad OchoCinco.

Exactly. It's like when they look at him like- Fake jewelry, flying economy. He was sleeping at the stadium, so he didn't have to pay for a department. So smart. So clever. But that's a guy preparing.

Nobody going to question him. Exactly. Oh, man, this NFL star, he got money. So we're not going to question if his diamond is real or not.

Well, you really can't tell. You can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on.

That's why they say, We got these diamond testers. We want to test your diamonds now. Come on now. It's just all an illusion anyway.

Do you fuck around with any of that stuff?

I got jury, but I'm not paying all that money for no jury. Now, we can get some sponsorships. Yes. But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jury? No, I don't even mean.

It's just not smart. And you don't get out of it what it costs. If you think about how much blood, sweat, what?

Sometimes you do. What do you get? Now, if you buy from the factory, now, if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store, you You might can get some money back from it.

You can flip it.

Yeah, that's true. Now, Bus Now's no. But if you get it from the actual store, the Protect store, the Rolex store.

That's true.

Them type of stores.

Keep the box in the papers. It's worth a lot of money.

It's worth more money. Then it's an investment. But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, no. You don't ever see a billionaire with no chain. No. You see it with a good watch, though.

Yeah.

See it with a good watch.

Yeah, that's true. It's just The trappings of Fame and also showing everybody that you have that money, the trappings of wealth, competing with all this other, getting your own private jet, all that stuff.

It's like, I learned from them. I learned from them because The people with the real wealth, you don't know they got the wealth. They walk around plain Jane clothes, know nothing. But the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth. Right. So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week. Safe Space. Safe.

Yes. And sneak around. Yeah. And keep it. Yeah. There you go. That's the thing. Because a lot of what wealth is, is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. Just have that money invested. Have that money making money for you. Don't spend it all on stupid shit. Live a modest life. Live a normal life. You're much better off. Especially a professional athlete, because you have such a small window of time. I mean, a A lot of men don't even make their real money until they're deep in their 40s and 50s.

Or the end of the 30s.

Yeah.

Look at Floyd, when he fought De La Hoya, then he fought Gatti, then he started making some real money.

Yes. But I mean, that's for a pro athlete. But for most of these really wealthy business people, most of them, unless they're tech investors, they're making their money later in life. And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth. But when you're an athlete, you got a small window of your prime. Your prime is essentially maybe 20 years. Maybe 20 years you can make money from 20 to 40. For a pro athlete, unless you're Tom braided, 40 is the end, or unless you're Bernard. Bernard was fighting at a world-class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy. Crazy.

That's because he take care of his body. A hundred %. He don't put nothing Super disciplined, never gets out of shape, never puts any bullshit in his body.

And also that mindset of what he learned when he was incarcerated. Discipline is everything. Discipline. Discipline, knowing you're never going back to that. Don't buy anything stupid. Don't be dumb with your money. Don't be dumb with your body. Take care of yourself. Never get out of shape. Always keep your conditioning up. So when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again. You're already in shape. Now you're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor sharp edge.

I think that goes to, like I said before, the people that you have around you that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from. When they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they'll be like, Hey, man, we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go. Or they'll call you, be like, Let's go run. I'm not doing that. Let's go jog. Or let's to the gym, or let's go eat some healthy food. People that want to see you be successful, not the ones that say, Hey, let's go party. Let's go drink. Let's go do this. Let's do cocaine. I think those are the people that you need to get from around you. A hundred %. The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool with them seeing you doing that.

Yeah, that's also the problem with an entourage, too. For sure. These guys are a role with an entourage. You always got one dude who's fucking up in that entourage. There's conflict in the entourage between dudes. And it's like you're managing a whole team of knuckleheads. It's like, oh, God. Just so they could roll deep when you show up at a place. You have 30 dudes hop out of SUVs. Oh, he's here. He's here. Look at that group behind them.

I don't need none of that.

That's beautiful. That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example. I'm glad you live the way you live. I really am. I really am because I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this. When you were training for Canelo, What did you do different? So knowing that you're going to be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what did you do different in terms of... Did you do anything different about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare? I know you were thinking about that fight for a long time, but when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you were going to be fighting him at 68, what did you do different?

To be honest, I didn't do nothing different. Really? It's crazy. Like, all my fights, there's We're nothing different. We trained for me, me getting sharper, what I need to work on, what I'm lacking in. But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet, my strength of condition coach, he got me in February. He called me up. He like, Hey, we're going to get this fight. He just kept saying, We're going to get it. So you need to be working out now. So this way before I ever got the Canelo fight, so I'm All right, so you come over to my house. We'll work out, we'll work out, we'll work out.

What stuff were you doing?

Just strength work. Just strength work.

Like deadlifts? What stuff?

Deadlifts, strength condition. Like deadlifts, working on good legs and things like that, and just getting my body just back to where it need to be. And he just like, Man, you got to strengthen up your shoulders and things like that. Because Quiet as Kept, I had just had shoulder surgery.

You did? Yeah.

So there's a lot of things that I go through in training, but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse. That's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But yeah, he was just like, Man, we got to work.

What was the shoulder injury?

Labrum.

Labrum? Yeah. So did you get it sewed back up? Yeah. Did you get stem cells shot in there at all?

No, I just had surgery on the front and the back. Oh, man, I wish I talked to you.

I wish I talked to you about that. Could have got you in.

I didn't get it on my left shoulder. So I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left in the Gambois fight. Really? Yeah. And you never got it fixed? Never.

Is it okay now or does it fuck with you?

It's still a tour. Really? But the doctors say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to get surgery. Do you feel it? Does it bother you? Sometimes, but not really. It bothered me sometimes, but not crazy. How long are you down for? I leave after this. But the right one, that was crazy. It was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majum off fight. Oh, really? Yeah, after the Majum off fight, it was like, thriving. And then it was just like, Man, we better get it done. But he was just on me like, We got to do physical therapy. We got to do this. We got to do this. And it was just like, All right, let's go. So he was just on me. He was just speaking it into the existence. He was like, Man, you're going to get this fight. I can feel it. I can feel it. So I started training for Canelo in February. I wasn't more so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared to go to camp. And when I start back to go.

So strength work is the basics, strength training. But what conditioning were you doing?

Oh, nothing different. Running, swimming, things like that.

And you didn't try to put on any weight? Just tried to be able to be what your walk around where your weight is?

No, I just tightened it up. Just tightened it up. With the strength work, just tightened it up. That was it.

Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder. I could get you back in town. There's a place called Wastewell that I work with here that does stem cells that helps so many fighters out. A lot of UFC guys come here. A lot of pro athletes come here. Nfl guys come here just to get stem cells. It's like state of the art facility. It's really good, and it could help you. I bet it could heal that labor.

Probably. We'll see.

Especially now because you're not going to beat it up as much anymore. Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out. You look great.

No, I'm actually not.

Not working out at all?

Nothing? I've been chilling. You earned it. I've been putting on my time with my kids and just relaxing and not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning.

Did they offer you a rematch?

No.

They didn't? Because there was talk that they offered you a rematch, but you wanted 100 million. No, that's a lie. All this Internet bullshit.

That was a lie. There wasn't even no rematch in the contract. There was no conversation about a rematch. There still haven't been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Canelo said that he wanted a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, Hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch or anything like that? So let's put that out there.

Is there a number that would bring you back?

I don't know. Me, personally, I can't say it is.

You're just not compelled.

Yeah, not at all. You did it.

Did it perfect.

It's like I'm not... The motivation. I'm always motivated by competing and things like that. But when it comes to boxing, it's like, I did it all. Right. I checked everything off the checkbox. So it wasn't close. I beat him decisively. So what am I doing it for?

I think I might have given him one or maybe two rounds, more like one. It was mostly, I think it was maybe the fifth. He had a really good fifth round.

Yeah, the fifth round.

He had a good fifth round. Yeah. But other than that, man, especially the ninth round.

And he headbutt me. He headbutt me on purpose. Did he? Yes. Really? Yes. I was like, Man. He was like, sorry, champion. I was like, What's your mouth?

He just got a little angry, a little frustrated.

Yeah, a little frustrated. But it's a fight. Any time I'm in a fight, I don't complain about nothing. If somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me below the waist or anything like that, I never complain because I'm so aggressive. I'm like, it's a fight. You know what I mean? They're trying to do whatever they can to win. It's up to this referee to step in, because if he don't, then I'm going to take matters in my own hands and I'm going to do the same thing. So I don't complain. I'm just like, bam. I was a little frustrated. I was like, Man, all right. All right, breathe. Let's get back to work.

Yeah, don't lose your composure. That's the problem with getting angry, right?

Yeah, for sure.

But yeah, that ninth round, that's when you really start separating. You really start pouring it I was wondering if you're going to stop them. When the ninth round was going on, when you were cracking them with some big shots, I'm like, whoa.

So I told my coach when we was in there, he was like, You don't got to do that. They know me and I'm like, Man, I can go for it. They just know me. They know my demeanor. And it was like, You don't got to give them a chance. Just keep doing what you're doing. You're boxing the shit out of them. You're winning hands down. Don't give them a chance. You don't got to box them. You don't got to do that. You're winning. So it was just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because I have that much faith in them. If they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight, that's what I'm going to do because that's the belief I have in them. And I just like, all right. The last round, I was like, all right, let me win this round and separate myself. And I felt like I heard him bad in that round. Yes. But it's boxing.

Yeah. Well, he's got a crazy chin. He's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's something unusual.

No. You don't think so? No, they said red heads is hard to knock out. It's proven. Is it? Yeah, I googled it. What is they called? Gingers? Yeah, Gingers. I promise you, when you look it up- Well, they have a higher pain tone.

Yes.

Yes. When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin, she's a nurse, and she said, Yeah, them gingers, they hard to put to sleep, even when you're giving them the esthetics to go to sleep. Really? Yeah. Interesting.

Redheads often possess a unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain, like heat or pressure, but requiring 19 to 20 % more general anesthesia. Wow. Or higher But 19 to 20 % is a lot. Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy. Largely due to the mutated MC1R gene, which affects nerve sensitivity, can lead to increased sensitivity to pain and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids. Interesting. Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting.

When she told me that, I googled it and I was like, damn, this is where I Hello. You know what I mean? It can take so many good shots.

That does make sense. Well, Neanderthal supposedly had red hair. So maybe like, red heads have more Neanderthal genes. Probably. The Neanderthals were brutally strong.

I wonder if that's where it comes from. I thought she was playing at first. That's crazy. She was like, Man, when we be trying to put them to sleep, it be harder to put them to sleep than normal people. So I started googling, and I like, You're fucking right.

19 to 20 % is nuts. That's a lot. That's the difference between killing someone and them just going to sleep. You give them an extra 20 %, they might not wake up. That's crazy. 19 to 20 % is wild. While I was talking to Jim Lampley, and I didn't know this, but Canelo has always been riding horses since he was young.

That's good for his balance. Yes. And the legs.

And the legs. Yeah, it's his base. That's a big part of it. Also, he's got that thick fucking neck, big square head.

Like you've been doing an iron neck all this life. Neanderthal's have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to Payton than most humans.

Interesting. Most humans. More sensitivity? Yeah. Lower threshold. Interesting. That's the opposite. Wow. Even though they're red-headed.

So he ain't one of them. He the other one.

One of those Mexican redheads. It's wild. That's crazy. But, yeah, I never thought the horse thing. Like, Lampley was explaining. It's like, yeah, the balance and the legs because you're constantly squeezing down on that horse and you're constantly adjusting and your core and everything. I'm like, oh, I never even thought of that. I would just think, fucking why are you riding horses when you're a world champion? Don't do that. People follow off horses. They break their fucking neck. Don't do that.

Yeah, I've seen a guy break his arm. They wanted me to take a picture on the horse, and And my bro, Manny, was like, Man, I don't know about these fucking horses. These horses be crazy. I said, Man, I rode horses before. He was like, Yeah, but it's a lot of people around. And he asking the guy about the horses, and the other guy was like, Yeah, he could get on this horse. So I get on the horse, I take the horse, I take the pitcher, and I get off. No longer than 10 minutes, this guy on his own horse, his horse just buck, go crazy, buck him off. Boom. He broke his arm. This in the parade, and the horse is just running wild. I'm like, he said, See, this is what I was telling you. He was going crazy. He was like, See, I told you these fucking horses. But it wasn't the same horse. It was a different horse. But he was just like, See, that's why I was telling you these horses be fucking crazy.

Yeah, you just never know with animals. My oldest daughter got into horses for a while. One of her friends used to do those things where the horse jumps over a thing. They have a whole obstacle course. And she was getting into that. And she fell once and she was okay, and then she fell a second time. She hurt her wrist pretty bad. I was like, Honey, you got to stop. You can't be doing this. It's too dangerous. Because those injuries you get fallen off a horse, especially if you get stomped, those are life-changing.

Especially if you get tied up. I didn't see videos of people getting bucked in their legs. They just a rag dog getting beat up.

Getting stomped in the head. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Horses. Fuck that. Fuck that. I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay, but why? Why do it?

Texas Ranger.

Everybody wants to be a cowboy. They watch Yellowstone too many times.

Everybody want to be a cowboy.

It's funny. We were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime, and you were talking about burbels. But I've been going down this Burberry rabbit hole, those mastiffs. I'm fascinated by them, man. The South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions and hyenas away from the farms. And we were talking about coyotes. You got land now. You're relaxing now. So I like it. Separated from everything, got some space.

Yeah, it's crazy because when I was building a house, A lot of people was like, Oh, he's building a house on the Aero Spence money and this and that. I'm like, Dude, do you know how long the process is of building houses? This is not no week or two-month deal. So you know what I mean? It's years.

Just from design to the beginning of construction, it's years.

For sure. You got to go pick out every fucking thing in the house. I bought that land in 2016. Oh, really? Wow. And I just was sitting on It was a house there already. I had it rent out to one of my buddies, my best friend at that. And when the time came, I had more kids. So it was better that I waited than to build then. So I just was like, Man, it's time. It's more peaceful out there. The kids, they ride the four-wheelers out there where we can shoot out there. We can do whatever we want out there. And it's just peaceful. To wake up to the sunrise and the nature, calling. Ain't nothing like it.

That's the dream.

It's definitely the dream.

Yeah, for a lot of people. That's nice. It's nice to see someone just setting their life up right. I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all.

I'm more competitive in other sports. What? Basketball, football. I'm anything. I ain't going to lie. Anything I do is I got to compete. I got to compete. Darts, pool, whatever. You remember I came in here like, You want to play pool? You're like, Let's do it. I was like, No, I was just playing. You can't kick my ass on camera. I heard that you was good.

I fucked Lennox Lewis up. He was talking a lot of shit. Lennox Lewis never got a shot.

I read two racks on him, and he was like, We're done. I came I'm in here pump faking you. I knew, though. I already know it. I knew right away. I just like to have fun.

Well, everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive. That's the problem, though, is unfortunately, some of them get involved in gambling. That's what we were just talking about.

He was like, You're gambling? I said, Man, I ain't never gambling. Good for you. Stay the fuck away. A lot of people always ask me, Why you don't get more in your fight? No, I don't at all. Good for you. They was like, Oh, well, we see you when you gabbled on the streamer, Aiden Ross. I said that was only because he called me out with my brother.

What did you do? What was that?

He bet me $10,000 wasn't that Tia Fimo was going to whip Shaqar.

Oh, that's a crazy bet.

You know what I mean? So it was just like...

That's a silly bet.

He called me out on live stream, so I'm never going to back down from that. Of course. I'm riding with Shaqar until the wheels fall off.

That's also like, if I was making odds, I'm putting like a 6 to 1. That's a crazy flat out bet. You're not even getting any odds on the money, and you're putting it on Tiafimo. No disrespect to Tia Fimo, But I think that Shaqar, he has the potential to be an all-time great.

Yeah, he will be. I believe so. He will be. All he got to do is keep doing what he doing, stay focused, and that's it. With fighters like Shaqar, Devon. It's all about staying focused. When these young fighters get to the pinnacle of boxing and they got everything at their disposal, sometimes they get caught up in the limelight and the things that really don't matter. And long as they stay focused and keep their eye on the prize of where they want to go and where they want their legacy to land, they're going to be just fine because it's easy for them to get caught up and want to be a fan-pleasing fighter, listening to the masses, all they need to fight like this, or I don't want to see them fight because all they do is run, or all they do is fight like this, and they pitty-patt, they ain't got no power, this and that. It's boxing. They win. All they got to do is keep winning. That's it.

Well, look at Floyd later in his life. Yeah. Floyd later in his life fought so safe, but yet made so much money because he talked so much shit. For sure. That people were spending money hoping he was going to lose.

And he's not the first one that did that. Tyson.

Yeah.

Roy Jones Jr. Yeah. Muhammad Ali. Yeah. And I always... I said this when I was with Tom Raine. I said, Why is it only the Black fighters that got to talk shit to sell So like that.

Well, in MMA, it's white fighters, too.

Conor McGregor. No, no, no. Conor McGregor, I say he one of us because they was treated like Black people over there where he from. A lot of people don't know that. Oh, yeah.

A lot of Irish slaves.

They was treated just like us. I consider him one of us. But at the same time, in boxing, it's always the Black fighters got to be the ones that step out and play this circus role and be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate them. But the ones that don't, like Andre Ward, Terrence Crawford, Tim Bradley, they're boring or they can't sell, things like that. Is you judging me for what I say or what I do in a ring?

Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent boxing.

Because I knock people out. Of course. That's what people want to see. They want to see action. I'm going to give them action.

But I think for casuals, they want to see a lot of shit talking, too, for some reason. They want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person.

But they pick and choose.

They do sometimes. Yeah, they do sometimes. But I mean, look, Tyson Fury talks a lot of shit. Oh, yeah. And obviously, one of the greatest of all time. Talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets, singing and shit. After the fight, that guy's great.

In his draws. In his draws in his cup. Legendary. He's a legend.

He's a legend. I mean, that guy.

But he's from a different country. Sure. He's a gypsey. You know what I mean? So you got to understand, he bringing those people over here, and they're going to support him win, lose, or draw. When we went over to the UK and we watched a Amir Khan fight Kellbrooke, it was an electric fire. And those guys had losses being both stopped and all that. But those people came out to support like a motherfucker. Oh, yeah. And I left that arena like, God damn, man, I wish I was from the UK. Because the way they support boxing, they don't look at us since you lost. We're not going to support you. They look at, No, these are warriors, and we're not going to stop supporting them because they lost. That's true.

That is true about the UK.

America, they like, Man, you got your ass on to the next. You're bummed, you're washed, you ain't as good as you said you was or we thought you was. And it's just like they chew you up and spit you out. And it's like, God damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top of a sport that everybody's gunning from you? That's shit hard.

Yeah, that's the culture of America, though, right? It's a bit of a problem. It disgusts me with fighting.

It's not like the end of UFC, though.

It is.

Not so much.

There's plenty of people. For the UFC, it's not as important to be honest.

I'm about to say it's only a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated. Very few. You got Khabib, you got Jon Jones. He had that one little loss. That's a bullshit loss. Yeah, but everybody knew that was a bullshit loss. He dominated that, dude. My boy, Sahudo, he just finally lost with not too long.

Well, he lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on. Then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title.

Everybody else be having five losses and stuff like that, and they be at the top of the top. And everybody still support them. But don't nobody go, Oh, he got five losses. He's trash. He does that. No. That's true. Maybe it was off night.

There's something to that because I think it's more difficult to not lose in MMA. There's just too many different styles. There's too many different approaches, too many variables. And it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight. When you're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit, you're doing a training, jiu-jitsu, you're manipulating joints. There's so many different things that can get fucked up. When you think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands, just boxing, shoulders, back, knees.

Ribs.

Ribs, yeah. Neck. Yeah, neck. Short. Yeah. And then add getting dumped on your head, add getting need in the face, add getting your legs kicked, knees buckled.

Toes broke.

Toes broke. Yeah. I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe. Just came in and fought with it. And afterwards, his toe's all fucked up, crooked to the side, and he adjusts it, pops it into place.

It's tough for them for combat sports. And people don't know. Like I said, they don't know what we go through. We don't never walk in a world-class fight the same or 100 % healthy. Like, Somebody just be like, Oh, man, I'm 100 %. No, the fuck you're not.

It's not possible. There's always going to be something that's bothering. If you're going through a 10-week camp, how is it even possible to not have something?

If they bullshit, but it's going to show in the fight. It shows in a fight.

Nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going in this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that.

Nobody said that.

No. I mean, it's the game.

When they talked about my shoulder before the Canelo fight, I was just like, I don't know. Tell him to hit me in both of my shoulders. It don't matter. My shoulder is healed.

How long did it take before it felt 100 % again?

After the fight. Really? Yeah. Because I got it on Halloween.

Oh, you got it in October? Yeah. And then how many months did you have to recover?

I fought September.

Whoa.

Okay. So that wasn't even a year.

So you had not even a year. And when did you really start training hard again after the surgery?

Probably April.

Okay. That's a good amount of time. Yeah. People don't realize shoulders is such a complicated joint. All this different movement.

And it still wasn't 100% after I fought.

Because you didn't have your strength all the way back to... Even after you fought.

Yeah, it wasn't 100%.

So it wasn't 100 % in the fight? Mm-mm.

That's crazy. I always tell people, If you watch my jab and my hook in the Canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook My prior fights in Majumoff and Spence, you'll see the difference.

Really?

But the blind eye wouldn't even notice it.

Right.

They'll just be like, Oh. But then when they look- What's still is effective? Yeah. But then when they know, they'll be like, it wasn't that snappy. It wasn't as hard. You know, you was just landing out there. So that's just little keys, little things.

But now it's 100 %?

Oh, yeah, it's good now.

Wow. And the The left one doesn't bother you, really?

The left one, it bothered me when it's overused. In a fight? No, I don't think none of that shit bothered me.

Do you have any plans to come back in town?

No. Can we get you back in town? I never come to Austin. You know the only time I ever came here was this podcast? Never, ever been here in my life. Really? Until I came here. It's a great city. Yeah. Julia always talked about it.

So So many good restaurants, so many good places.

She took me to the college and all that and reminiscing because she went to college here and she just love it here. So she's like, This is the bars that we went to. This is this, this, this. I was like, Oh, Julie, you're happy spot place, huh? She was like, I just love here. Well, why not move here?

It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder taken care of. It'll change your life. Stem cell is wild, man. It's crazy what it could do. It just regenerates tissue. Everything heals. Within weeks, you start feeling better.

You're like, God, everything just feels looser.

For sure. I've had so many friends that were on the verge getting surgery. Like, I don't know, doctor says I need surgery. Get stem cells. Everything's good. I had a full length rotator cuff tear. I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells. He's like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. He's like, that tear doesn't even exist anymore. It's gone. Completely healed. It's crazy. Stem cells are nuts, man. And they're getting better at it all the time. Pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it. Surgeons hate it. Doctors hate it because it's going to cost them money. There's a Take away their money. Yeah. There's a bunch of people that are going to get treated with stem cells that don't need surgery. And afterwards, they're like, oh, I'm good. Because the doctor is like, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And these doctors, the way they make their money is cutting you. And they all want to cut you. And it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries, how many different injuries you can heal with stem cells. It's pretty remarkable.

My doctor is trying to avoid cutting me.

Did it? That's good.

So they waited all the way till- That's a good doctor.

That's a good doctor.

Until it was like, we got to.

That's after the Madjmaud fight, right? Yeah. Well, I love to get you back in here because I really think If they could help that. For sure. Yeah. Especially you got your whole life ahead of you now. You don't want that bothering you, fucking with you. You'll be able to do whatever you want. And especially now, because you're not training hard, it'll heal good. Because that's the problem. A lot of guys, they get the stem cells, and they go back to training in a few weeks, and it's not 100 % healed, and they tweak it a little bit. But now, if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do something like that. So what is your plan now? Now that you're on top of the world, you did it. What does it feel like?

It feel like it's supposed to.

It's supposed to.

It feel like it's supposed to. A lot People, they ask me, they say, man, how I feel? How's the retired life? I'm like, the same. Nothing in my life has changed, but the people everywhere else congratulating me and things like that. But as far as my living aspect of my life, it's the same. When I'm fighting, training, I'm focused on the fight. But after that, it's my kids, the gym, things like that.

Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all? Because I think you would be great at that.

I'll be chilling. I don't be in the media talking.

You don't even have to be in the media.

I'll be avoiding the media. You know how some people, they want to be all up in a limelight and things like that. I'll be avoiding. They'll be like, Can we get an interview? I don't know right now. I don't want to talk. Well, I appreciate you coming in here, though. Oh, yeah, for sure. But a lot of people ask me that, Do you want to be like all the fighters and be a commentary.

Good for you.

I'll be cool.

Good for you. That's going to help you so much. It's going to help you so much because it's the people that crave that limelight when it all goes away, then they're like, Well, who am I? I thought I was special. I thought I was special. I want to be the guy when, Oh, he's here. He's here. They want to be constantly in the limelight, showing up at red carpets. I avoid all that shit, too. I don't want to have nothing to do with that.

I know who I am internally. Can't nobody tell me who Terrence Crawford is. So I'm happy in my own skin, always been happy in my own skin. And I believe that's how I got to the point where I'm at now. When nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along. When people told me I was a bad businessman, okay, look at me now. When people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have done, and I did what I wanted to do, look at me now. So now it's like everybody like, Man, this dude was new all along. It's like, yeah, Because I'm not a follower. I'm not going to listen to people that has never done anything in their life and never took no chances or no risk to tell me what I can and what I can't do. So I'm happy in my own skin. I'm happy, whether they chant my name or whether they're not. As long as my family love me and my family there and they're good, they're well taken care of, then that's the only thing that makes me happy.

That's beautiful. I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example. I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do. I really do, because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person, living flashy in front of everybody. And it's a foolish adventure.

It's temporary. It's temporary. And they don't understand that. They only chant your name for a moment. It's very temporary. And they'll turn on you in a heartbeat. Just do something crazy or lose a match that you're not supposed to lose or be up against one of your rivals and you lose, and then everybody going to turn it back on you.

A hundred %.

And you're going to be sitting there lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there. He had everybody in his corner. Now he had his lowest. Now they making fun of him. Now they're taking pictures. I hit him up.

He makes fun of himself, too, though.

Yeah, he do, but he's suffering. And I hit him up, and I try to encourage him, and I send him messages, and And you got to be there for people when they're at their lowest.

That's great. He was a very talented guy. But again, that's what you said. He's a guy who really got caught up in it.

That's a perfect example.

What's Gervante doing I don't know. Is he on the run?

I don't know. I don't know about that guy.

I think he's on the run. At least he was recently. That's unfortunate. He's so fucking talented. He He's such an unusual style, too. Very economical, throws very few punches. But when he does, it's boom.

Explosive?

Super, super explosive. I mean, this is a great time for boxing, though. It really is. It's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now.

And they fight in each other. That's the most important thing that I could say is the fight is being made, whether you on this side or that side, the fight is being made. The promoters is working together within each other.

What do you attribute that to? Do you think that's Riyadh season? Is that for Saudi? Of course. Yeah.

Of course. Turgy came in, changed up the game. He went to the fighters. Hey, I got this. I got this. We want this fight to happen. And the fighters were like, whoa, we know we're not going to get this. And nothing. Nobody would have never seen no B-Vaul, better be-if fight. That fight would have never happened. Them promoters are not going to pay that money. There are so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid for. Top Rank would have never paid the money that Turkey paid to see Shaqar and T. O. Fight. So we got so many fights Because of him. And we need to be appreciative of him because without him, none of those fights would have happened.

A hundred %.

The Canelo fight wouldn't have happened for me. The Majumal fight wouldn't have happened for me. And so many more.

Absolutely. I think that's very exciting. But that's what the sport needed. It needed someone to come in with deep pockets that just said, let's make these fights happen.

And I think that's why boxing is on a rise right now. People is talking about boxing more. People is more supportive about boxing now. And people is tuning into not only Ria's season shows, but all shows. Look at Clarissa. She just put on a hell of a performance.

Hell of a performance.

And it was rocking in that. It was crazy. It was sold out over 16,000 people as a woman.

I know, right?

Man, she doing her thing. And people don't give women enough credit. She bringing out stars. And, man, it was a good atmosphere in there.

And it was a very skillful fight. She fought a very skillful... They came to bang.

I said, Y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round. But you could see it in her face. She wanted to knock out so bad. I was like, she's a dog.

She's ferocious. And so skillful, too. But she's a unique individual. Individual star in a realm where there's not a lot of women stars. But I think a person like her can encourage others, and it could be more. And when you have one star, a lot of times it does open up the landscape for more.

For sure.

She transcends. She transcends boxing. A lot of people know who Claressa Shields is. A lot of people know who she is outside of boxing. And there's not a A lot of other female boxers you could say that about. There's only been a few ever, like Christie Martin.

Leila Ali.

Lele Ali. Anne Wolf. Yeah. And Wolf was good. Yeah, and Wolf. That was crack. And she was a ferocious trainer, too. Remember she was training Kirkland?

Yes.

Bro.

With the bag on the back of the truck.

Oh, man. She would make him go through hell. But when he was with her, he was phenomenal.

When he was undefeated with her?

I think he was undefeated with her, and she wasn't with him when he fought Canelo, unfortunately.

A couple of fights I don't think she was going to be. Yeah.

But I think it was too much. It was too hard. He didn't want to do it. She's a tough lady, man. She'd put you through some fucking hell. There's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp. I was like, My God. For a woman to be able to do that. It just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was.

But his performances, showed as well. Yes. Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical.

Yes.

And taking everything from him and putting him in a room and now he's training. It was like Rocky. You ain't got no TV. All you doing is work, eat, sleep, boxing. And it's just like, damn.

I got into old boxing footage real recently over the last six months. I've been watching a lot old camps, and there's some great YouTube channels that shows Hagler's camps, and Hagler's camps were phenomenal. It was so good. Like, Hagler was rich, and he would go to Provincetown, this shitty little fucking town on the Cape. No I disrespect Provincetown. I'm just saying, and compared to where he could be, he could be in New York City, he could be anywhere he wanted. But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on the beach and live in a room with no TV, no nothing, just eat, sleep, train. He was sparring 100 rounds a week. I mean, it was wild. Watching him train was incredible. It was incredible. And when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned, no stone unturned. And it was just all discipline and drive and focus. And he was another guy. Didn't get his due, didn't get his due until he stopped, really, until he stopped hernes. That's when people really woke up. All the inside boxing people were very aware, but it took a while.

It took a while before the rest of the world caught up.

Because it wasn't flashy?

Yeah, it wasn't flashy. Just dominate. Just break people's wheels. The Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time because Mugabe was putting people in the hospital.

That was tough.

Oh, my God. Mugabe hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man. Had a chin from hell. You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles They did a cat scan on him, a scan of his head. They said the muscles on the side of his head is like he was born with headgear, or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long. Yeah, just, But I love watching those old-school training footage videos. There's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people People should see stuff like that just to appreciate the amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight, because I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day over and over and over and over and over until you're finally in the ring. The ring is almost the easy part.

Easiest. It's tough. When When we in Colorado and we got to run a mountain, sometimes I'll be like, Man, I ain't running this mountain, man. I don't care. And then it'll be like, You're going to get your ass up. You got to get your ass up. Or Bo will come in there and be like, Let's go. I'm like, Man, Bo, let's go. Bo got this saying. Anytime I'm giving him some push, he'll be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great. Let's go.

I'm like, That's great that you have someone with you.

Hey, right. Here we go.

He's been with you from the beginning? From the start. That's so big, too.

And it's crazy because the days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best. Because you've conquered that inner bitch, that thing inside you that wants to not do it. I'm the fucking man. Yeah, Steven be like, When you don't want to do something, it's like you're trying to hurry up and get it over with, so you're trying to do it fast. So my best times is when I don't want to do it. My best sparring is when I don't want to spar because I'm like, All right, I'm about to fuck you up because I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit. I don't want to get hit. So it's like your best days is when you don't want to do it. That's when I perform the best in the gym and stuff like that. So, yeah, man, a lot I love young fighters, when they come and see my training, they see what I go through three times a day. So it's eat, sleep, shit, work. They like, Man, you train too hard. I'm like, Ain't No such thing.

Tim Bradley told me, Hey, man, you got to rest. You got to chill out. Andre Ward, Man, you got to rest. And these last two training camps, I took on their advice and took it just a day off in a week. Every week, instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off just not doing nothing. And it helped me tremendously on my recovery. Really? Because I used to just do active rest on Sunday. We'll do the incline. We'll just do the incline. That's it. In the morning, early in the morning. And then we have the whole day to recover. But he like, no, you got to just take the whole day off not doing nothing and just recover. And as I got older, my last two training camps, I took that advice and it's just like, man, I'm like, Man, I could have did this years ago. I was just so locked in. If I take a day off, they going to have a day up on me. And I was just like, I can't I was working.

Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns, where you put in too much work. Seeing a guy fight when he's overtrained is one of the saddest things ever. It's like his drive actually fucked him. I've seen it before. In MMA, it happens all the time, especially guys who don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up in the morning.

I use that in my last two camps.

And that was the only two camps you did then?

My last two camps.

Wow. Interesting.

So everything was visual with my coaches because they've been with me so long, so they know when to pull it back. Some days they'll be like, all right. You're peaking You did four rounds? No, we done. Like, Man, I got eight rounds today. You good. They'll be like, What? You good. Don't worry about it. We'll come back tomorrow. And I'll be like, All right. I will never question them. Right. We come in there and they'll be like, All right, today we're going to shadow box and we're going to hit the mix. But I never question them. But they already knew by watching me along the weeks to pull me back, when to pull me back. Then it started getting to me and I'm like, oh, okay. So now that I know what they... They're not going to let me overtrain because they know I'm going to give it my all every time I train and anything I do. So they just pull me back. Like, All right, well, we're going to just do yoga today And we're going to do boxing work. We're not going to do no strength and condition or we're not going to do no roll work or we're just going to swim.

Instead of running, we're going to swim. So some days they're flip flop.

That's the beauty of having a really good trainer.

Yeah, for sure.

And someone is really paying attention to you and knows you, like knows the signs, knows when you're a little sluggish, knows when you're peaking a little early.

Yeah. To call you back.

And anybody said that If you train too hard, it's like, compared to who? Compared to who? It's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years, that your body is conditioned to go that hard. Because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon, you need six months off. I had a friend, it was my friend Cameron Haynes. He runs ultra marathons. When he was training for a 250-mile run, he was running a marathon every day. Every day. Most people, the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. Yeah, you can. You just got to get up to that. So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and fucking off, and then they get back in the camp, yeah, you can't do three hard a day like that. But if you're already in shape and you're already conditioned and you have built up this base of years and years of doing this, your conditioning will be so much better. One of the things that I notice in young fighters in particular, especially in MMA, is how tired they get in a three-round fight.

Just a three-round MMA fight, how tired they get. And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five-round fight. So what is the difference? Well, it's the years and years of building up that cardio base, not fucking up your body, not partying.

Knowing how to breathe. That's the most important. Being efficient.

Yeah.

Because my first time at the UFC, when I did strength and condition. I was like, Man, I'm not getting nothing out of it. It's easy. And it was like, Well, it's not meant to break you or kill you. You're going to see the difference. And I'm just like, Man, when I'm doing UFC back at home, I'm sore. I'm not sore the next day when I'm doing strength and condition here. But gradually, you start seeing the results. And it's like, damn. It's the science behind it. Yes. And I was just like, in my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm used to working hard and I'm going home and I'm like, oh, that was a good workout. I feel it. Psychologically, I'm like, I don't feel like I did nothing because my body is in so in shape. I'm like, Man, I need to do more. They're like, You're good. You did a lot today. I'm like, All right. So gradually, I'm starting to see the effects. I'm like, Oh, okay. So maybe he was working me out too hard. I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, okay. It's all a science.

It really is a science. And the problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're so driven. And sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain. Like, Slow down. We got to do this. We got to progress, progress over time and get to that perfect point the week before the fight where you just settle in and then fight time.

That's my guy, Gavin. Gavin just like, Oh, don't worry. Steps.

That's the beautiful thing about having someone that you could trust that really knows what they're doing. And there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no breaks, and they might be costing themselves a little bit. But then there's a lot of lazy fighters. Like, Yeah, I don't want to overtrain. No, you're under training. That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing a proper workout that you need to do to really prepare for a fight. It's this fucking dance, man. It takes forever to learn. It takes forever. That's why a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they get into their 30s because they get it all dialed in. They know what they need. They know what they need to do. They know what a camp really feels like. They prepare for it.

Being there, the experience.

Yeah.

So, yeah, they definitely know their body. They know when they're in shape, when they're out of shape, what they need, when they need a little more. Experience is the best teacher, I would say.

Well, experience and then listening to people like you. That's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all and that wisdom, the Just the things that you've said on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now there are hundreds of thousands of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now and that are probably taking it all in. Okay, because in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do. You don't know what. What's the right approach? Is it his approach? Is it his approach? What's the right mentality? What's the right mindset? Who are the right coaches? Which is a big factor. You get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach, and it'll limit your development.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that goes back to styles. When I said I was trying to coach everybody to the same style when everybody ain't meant to be trained the same way. Everybody don't have the same mental capacity to process things the same way. Some people process things different. That's like yelling at a fighter. That motivated me. Sometimes Sometimes that break fighters. They like, I'm getting you all that. I'm doing something wrong. So we look at them like, Man, toughen up. But nowadays it's different. Everything don't flock the same with one fighter like a dude.

No, you got to figure out what gets your fighter going.

Yeah.

That's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people because your livelihood depends hands-up on another person performing, which is crazy. It's a crazy way to live your life.

That's any sports. I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the players and the fighters and the athletes, they got to go out there and perform. I could tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's on you. Now, coaches, they can get outcoached. They can call the wrong plays at the wrong times, different like that. But all in all, if he go out there and miss a tackle, if he go out there and not catch the ball, why am I getting fired? They're going to blame me. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. Hey, I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him D up. So I'm getting fired because they're not performing.

You're also getting fired by people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do if you're a coach. If they're not a coach, how could you really understand? If you're not day in, day out with these athletes in their head, working with them, seeing what they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses. If you're not doing that, you just are seeing results. That's all you see. You're judging based on results, and you don't really know who's a good coach and who's not. Because if you're a good coach, you got shit athletes. You can only go so far.

That's it. And it's tough. It's tough to go across the middle and try to catch a bullet when you know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you. It's crazy to go up on a seven-footer trying to shoot a 2 to 3. It's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but they're making it seem like it's easy on the outside for us. And we like, Man, you didn't catch the ball. It's like, Man, you try to catch that ball with three people on you coming full speed. And you got to worry about getting your feet in bounds and things like that.

It's so much- Well, it was like T-Feh Mo's corner during the secure fight. You got to hit him. You got to hit him. What do you think I'm trying to do?

Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to him. Don't just tell me you got to hit him. And that goes in to saying that everybody shouldn't be a coach. Right. Because now you're not giving me no instructions. You're going off of emotions. And you're just telling me, Hey, you got to hit him. You're not hitting him. What are you doing? Now, what if Teo would have said, What is you doing? Because you're not telling me nothing. You see me trying to hit him, but he's moving. What am I supposed to do? I'm swinging and I'm missing. So tell me how to set it up to him.

But there's really nothing anybody could have told him.

Yeah.

The gap was just too wide at that point. Right. Yeah. They should have studied more in training. But even then, the problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing. It's years of setups. It's years of skills.

I think when a fighter have a good coach that's knowledgeable and they believe in a coach, and a coach asks them to do something, And they believe that that's going to work. They'll try it. If your coach tell you, All right, listen, he's stepping back every time you step in. So that means for every time he step back, you got to step in twice and double the jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range. And that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do, and he's successful, then that's a different ball game. That's a different ball game. Because now you're listening to your coach, but your coach is seeing what the other fighter is doing that's making him be more successful.

Technical instruction.

There you go. You can't just go go out there and hit him. Tell me how to do it.

I hear that shit in the corner. I'm like, Good Lord, what are you saying? You hear it in MMA all the time. You got to put it on them. Oh, I didn't know. Oh, I got to put it on them. All this time, I was hoping it would just happen. Listen, man, congratulations on everything. You had a fantastic, spectacular, one of a generation career. So it's beautiful to watch. And as a fan, I'm honored that you came in here. And I think what you've done is just fucking incredible. So congratulations on everything. And enjoy it. Enjoy all the rest of your life because you earned it all.

Definitely.

Thank you very much.

All right.

Bye, everybody.