Transcript of #2514 - Cameron Hanes New

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day.

I don't care what it means. We can use headphones or no, we don't need them. Okay.

I don't know.

Whatever you think. We have to wear your sweet hat. I don't want to fuck it up.

There you go.

Just got it. Look, we got an American flag. We got a skull. We got camo. What the fuck else do you want? Are you American or not? Oh, nice, dude. You're all in for 250, the 250th anniversary.

It's also the only socks I brought on this trip somehow. So I wear them every day now.

You only brought one pair or one style?

No, one pair of socks and no underwear.

Oh God, I've done that before. We have to wash your socks in the sink with shampoo, with hotel shampoo.

Yeah.

And then wear them when they're wet.

And it's like, I went on a run here. It is muggy.

Oh yeah, baby.

Sweated my ass off.

That's the fear of this weekend at the UFC. Yeah, cuz it's East Coast, it gets very muggy. Yeah, for sure. And DC. So these guys are all working out outside right now. I saw a video of Aymen Zahabi working out outside, and Ilia Topuria is working out outside. And you know, you have to feel that, that heavy, heavy air.

It changes things.

Oh yeah, man. I remember when I was a kid, I went to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

I see those thunderstorms, dude.

Oh yeah, we're fucked. Fuck. There is a canopy that's over the cage. They put a canopy over the cage.

Well, if lightning hits that, that's not good.

Well, if it hits the canopy, I think we're okay. I mean, I think I'm more worried about a terrorist attack than I am fucking lightning.

No, that's true.

But I probably should be more worried about lightning. I actually have friends that have been hit by lightning. We do.

Remy.

Remy got hit by lightning.

Yeah, for sure.

So I know.

That was full.

I don't know anybody who's been hit by a terrorist attack. I think by lightning. Yeah, we had crazy storms here, you know, playing golf. No, but I was outside. Thank you. I thought the storm was over and I was out on my balcony and I was like, wow, this is cool. Oh, that's not a good spot. One hit, I'm 500 feet in the sky, I'm already up there. And then it hit and I started hearing sizzling near me. I'm like, holy shit, I gotta get inside.

Like electricity.

I was like, what the fuck is that? Where is it? Oh my god, that's so scary. That's such a fucked up way to go. Do you ever see that one video where the guy is walking down the street and he gets hit by lightning He wakes up, walks down the street a little bit further, he's recovering, and he gets hit again. Dude got hit by lightning twice. And like, I don't know if it's time-lapse or what, I don't know how long he was out for, because it's like one of those Ring cams that catches him. This guy got fucking cooked twice.

You know you're having a bad day.

I forget what Remy said happened to him after he got hit, but I remember his hearing was fucked up for a long time or something. Something like that. Yeah.

We, uh— I was— we do the mountains back home, like run them. And there's— we were up on Diamond Peak, me and Tanner, last year, and a storm, you know, kind of like the weather report, like having some clouds or whatever. Wasn't supposed to be thunderstorms, but you could hear kind of growling. Then you're like, how does that come in this way? And it doesn't have to be that close. I mean, I think— I think lightning can hit from 10 miles away. Really? Yes, it can go that— it can go sideways. So anyway, If you see that building, you should get off the top of a mountain, right? Well, me and Tanner were up there and we still wanted to get to summit and then bomb off. Well, we're up there and he goes, "Dad," he goes, "Watch." And we had trekking poles and he had them like this and they were like ticking. Like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. From electricity. Electricity was in his trekking poles. Then I said, "Let's get the fuck off this thing." And so we bombed off and there's these kids down that were like, they said, "Should we go up?" And I said, I'd wait a little bit and the girl's hair was standing up.

Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah. So crazy. Yeah, it is not that. Yeah.

So they—

oh, this guy died in Florida last year in what they call blue sky lightning. What? Yeah, it can— it jumped from several miles away. Wow. Just standing on the beach. There was a blue sky above.

Storm is near. And I think it can go— I know I looked it up after that because I was like, well, I need to know. I'm in the mountains all the time.

His death nonetheless serves a grim reminder Florida led the US in both lightning fatalities, 12, and strikes per square mile, 76. Holy shit. By the way, did you see that guy in Florida that he was running from the cops and he got killed by an alligator? No, see that one? Uh-uh, dude, it's body cam footage. The cops got the gun out and he's like, stop, stop, stop. The guy's running, he's going in the water, and all of a sudden, boom. Like, right?

I'd rather get shot.

I'd rather get shot. I'd rather get shot than killed by a fucking dinosaur.

Oh my God.

If you get shot, the bullet's gonna hurt like fuck. You're gonna be in shock. You're gonna realize you're bleeding out. You're gonna have to say, I wish I was a better person. I'm gonna miss my family. But that fucking alligator is gonna take a while to kill you. It's gonna roll with you. It's gonna drag you under the water. You're gonna realize you can't get free. You're gonna try to poke its eyes. It's not gonna work. Fuck!

It's gonna be a miserable existence till it's over.

You see that one video of a dude? He got attacked by an alligator, lost his arm, so it bit his fucking arm off, and he made his way back home. So he— they're like talking to him like right when he got out of the swamp, and he got one arm, and he looked like— there's not a chance in hell he was sober during any of this experience. He looked like he had been methed up since the fucking 12th grade.

Oh my god.

This dude, yeah, this is the dude. Just fucking lost his stump. Yeah, that's where I wandered for 3 fucking days with one arm.

Oh my God.

But first of all, how do you not bleed out?

I know, dude, that's what I was gonna say. Did you keep pressure on that thing?

My arm went back, it was like this completely. What's he saying? What's he saying? On my right-hand side, so I went to swim and she got, she got my forearm, so I grabbed her like this. And like, she's trying to roll, but she snapped her head, so my arm went backwards like this completely. He says he fought for his life. She drug me under 3 times. I like how the narrator comes in, so important. He says he fought for his life. I can just imagine them in an editing bay.

Yeah.

Should I do that again? Is that good?

No. I know.

He says he fought for his life.

Yeah, we got that part with the no arm. We— I would have assumed that.

He fucking wandered through alligator and snake-infested swamp for 3 days. Fucking days.

Thanks for telling us what we need to be believing here.

You know, when I went alligator hunting out there a few years ago, you know that alligator that we shot that's in the front? Bro, they're everywhere. Yeah, if you ever want to come, it's really fun. I know you don't do much hunting outside of bow hunting. Yeah, but they need to be killed. They're vastly overpopulated.

But you can't do a bow?

You can, but it's—

yeah, well, that's like everything.

It's pretty sketchy. But this, this, you know, I know Grizzlies killed alligators with a bow in Florida. Yeah, you just got to catch them in the right spot. You got to basically hit them like right behind the head. Yeah, I think you'd probably hit them with a fixed blade, right?

Yeah, for sure.

There's iron will or something.

There's just— you got to brain them. Yeah, so there's like that bump back there, then it's like halfway in between the eye and the bump, something like that.

So you want to be like 20 yards? Yeah, you gotta be fucking exit right in there for sure.

The good thing about that, if you fuck up and just kind of ricochet it's gonna be fine, you know what I mean? It's like, literally, it's not making— if you go for the lungs and miss, hit it in the stomach, that's not good. It's gonna be pretty sick and miserable death.

But it probably still live. Those fucking things are such monsters. They're such monsters.

I was saying, you know, we've killed bear up at— Kip killed a bear up at the Rivets with 3 legs. Oh yeah, I'm just like, how?

One of them will eat the other one's leg. Yeah, bite their fucking legs off.

Like, how do you You know, how do you survive? Yeah, we have to get antibiotics for like a hangnail.

I think our, uh, whole biome is probably all fucked up from washing it all the time.

Yeah, probably.

I mean, it completely makes sense, right? It's like, yeah, animals don't seem to get a whole lot of infections like we do unless they're farm animals, right? Or like occasionally a little— it happens all the time in the rut, right? Like when you're dressing an animal, you find all these holes in the side of it where they're like pussy. I remember one time one of the elk that we shot at Tejon had his back leg was just filled with pus, like the whole back. It was all pus because he had gotten stabbed.

It's usually in that back because usually they turn because they know they're getting their ass kicked, and so it's in their hindquarter. It's like the dominant bull gets a jab in before they go.

And you've seen those Tejon bulls, those 1,100-pound fuckers. Imagine one of those stabbing you in the head.

No. And also, if you see antlers there that are broke because they're so heavy. Uh-huh. Like, there's— that bone is so thick for their antlers. If a bull's break— imagine the force required to break that.

And imagine that going right up your ass.

God, for my camera guy, that'd be a dream. But for most of us, no.

They find them, you know, with these holes in them. Like, when, when you shoot them and you find out, like, what they've been through. Like, no wonder why they barely moved when they got hit with an arrow. Yeah. They probably didn't even know. Like, when two bulls are fighting and then one of them gets hit with an arrow, they barely react.

No, that'd be like, what? What was that?

Yeah, it's crazy. They're just so just locked into war.

Especially if you like get in between the ribs and don't hit anything.

Right, just slices right through.

Just like that bull would be like, ow, wait, what?

What was that?

Nothing. And all of a sudden, woo, I'm feeling woozy.

Yeah. Then it's over. Did you find that video? See if you can find the video of the guy with the body cam footage getting killed by the alligator. It's hard to see it. You can see a little bit though. I just think it's exciting. It's just—

you love watching chaos online.

I don't know why, but I do. Give me some— put the headphones on there. Let's see what— I like the music. Okay, so here it is. The cop's got his gun out. Oh, this isn't a very good— yeah, see, the cop's got his gun out. Yeah, and he's like trying to think of what to do, and this dude's getting jacked.

Oh, there goes the alligator too. Yeah. Oh shit.

Yeah.

Oh, did you see that line of the—

yeah, back that up a little bit so you can see it. So the dude's trying to swim away and look at the alligator. Boom! That's a wrap, son.

Did he put his hands up here?

I don't think so. I think he just So like right there, back it up a little bit more. So you see the guy swimming away on this one. Maybe— what's that? It's a different version. Being Good Samaritan. Oh no, the same lady narrating. That's when a gator— that's when a gator slammed right towards him, and that's not good of his arms. I mean, it was a full-on attack. It was a full-on attack, like as if— what, halfway attack? No, they were fine. It's a fucking dinosaur. There was another story in Florida a few years back where a guy was running from the cops. I think it was a high-speed chase, gets to a bridge, stops the car, throws it in park, jumps off the bridge. Boom, alligator gets him. Literally like landed right on a fucking alligator. But that's the reality of the water. All the freshwater in Florida is filled with alligators. They have to check Disneyland all the time. Yeah, Disney World, they have to check it all the time. Yeah, remember a little kid got killed there a few years ago? Imagine you take your kid to fucking Disney World and it gets killed by a dinosaur.

Rough. Well, and also it's like, you know how— I don't know, you have dogs, but are they ever around when you're eating and like something falls on the ground? They're always checking the ground. Well, that's what alligators do in the water. They're just sitting there just chilling out. They hear a little splash, they're like, oh, like a dog. Was that a crumb hitting the floor? The dinner table.

Yeah, exactly.

So there's over there and they'll just eat whatever hit the water, especially if something seems like it's struggling.

Yeah.

Oh, I got you.

Opportunists.

Yeah, they're so— they're just chilling, just waiting for shit to hit the water, which is— that's what fishing is too, you know. You see that the fly is hatching, you try to match it, try to put it on there, and like, they're like, okay, got one to hit the water, right? But yeah, alligators are masters of taking advantage of opportunity. And every once in a while, some comes off a bridge and Hey, big meal.

It's really shocking how many of them there are in the Everglades. I went, I guess it was 3 years ago, and when we were there, it's like everywhere you look, you have to look for an alligator. It's like nothing I've ever seen. I thought it'd be hard to find them. I thought we'd go out there, you look around, you probably glass a little, see eyeballs pop up. No, they're fucking all over the water.

Like how many would you see?

We saw 15, 20, maybe more. Just chilling. Maybe 30. You see like some movement on the water and then they dunk under and you're in the fucking swamp, man. It's sketchy as shit. Yeah, the whole— the whole—

never done it.

It's very weird. It's very weird because you're like, this is a mess. Yeah, like there's the feeling that you get there like, oh, this is infested. Like you, you're infested by dinosaurs. And then meanwhile, you go an hour and a half later, you're in Miami having a steak, drinking a nice Pinot Noir. You think you're in civilization. You're You're fucking a half a day's drive from monsters, an infested jungle filled with monsters.

And imagine if you weren't in a boat. Like, what if, what if you were just somehow something happened to the boat?

Oh, you fucked.

Yeah, what would you do if like the boat sank out there?

Well, we weren't in a boat. Okay, we, we drove out. We were with guides and we drove out in trucks. Okay, they know like where the lake areas are, where the You know, it's very dense out there. It's very thick. It's just hot and muggy, and these fuckers just bloop. You see them pop up. You see the eyeballs pop up. You see some motion. But you fucking see them everywhere. And then you look around at how big the Everglades is, and you go, how many of them are out here? Because it's not like we found the honey spot. You know what I mean? It's like the whole Everglades. They're— when I was a kid, you know, I lived down there in Florida when I was 11 years old. From 11 to 13, I lived in Gainesville, and there's alligators back then, but they were endangered.

Mm-hmm.

And so you weren't allowed to kill them, and so they would kill people's dogs and shit. I remember this lady in my neighborhood, her dog got jacked. She was walking her dog by Lake Alice, and it just snatched her dog and took it away. Jesus. Like the late '70s. And we were feeding them marshmallows. So you go to the dock, you throw marshmallows, and the alligators would come up and eat the marshmallows. Mm-hmm. And it was, you know, it was weird. Yeah, it's kind of cool that they're there. Freaks you out a little bit, but they weren't dangerous, right? Cut to all these years later. Now, because no one hunted them, because they basically were making shoes out of them, right, in the day, and they almost hunted them to extinction. And they should probably start that again. Yeah, we need to bring alligators.

Something needs to happen.

Like, back in like the '70s, like, that was the cool shoes. Like, in the pool halls where I used to play pool, like, the old guys would talk about how a guy was really dressed dressed up, he had his gators on. He looked good, he had a nice suit, he had his gators on. His gators?

Like, I got gator boots, alligator shoes. Lucchese.

Yeah, yeah. Gator boots seem to be a different thing because it kind of almost makes sense because like, like you get boots that are made out of like snakeskin and ostrich and like, that's kind of a cowboy boot thing. But yeah, alligator dress shoes. Yeah, you got your gators, right? Yeah, very hard to get. Yeah, polish it nice. That's Ric Flair. Oh yeah, remember Rick Flair. I love that, bro. I gotta apologize to Rick Flair. He got, uh, scammed. So some, some person reached out and said that they were representing this podcast and they were gonna have— that he was gonna come on the podcast. Oh, I think, uh, Tim Dillon, this happened with him too. Um, it didn't happen with him where they got him, but they send you an email saying that they're gonna have you come on a podcast, but they need your bank information.

Yeah, they'll pay you sometimes. It's like $3,000, right? Because I've got those too.

And what it really is, is they're just going to empty your bank account and it's just a scam. So if you get an email like that from me, it's not real. Sorry, Ric Flair. So Ric Flair, I don't know if he lost his money, but Tim Dillon, they tried to get him on Amy Poehler's show. So it's— that's the scam. The scam was they reached out to— he talked about it on his podcast. They reached— the scammer reached out, said, I'm representing the Amy Poehler Show. We would love to have you on. And he was like, that doesn't seem like that would be a good thing for Amy Poehler. I don't think I'm a good guest.

Yeah.

And it was like, he was like, I don't think this is real.

Yeah.

And then it says, you know, we need your bank account information. And so many people just like don't think about it or they're boomers or—

Well, it, they make it seem legit cuz I know Pat McAfee, I got an email from them about coming on the show and I'd been kind of communicating with some of those guys before. And so I'm like, maybe, I mean, for me it's like a big deal, like ESPN and Pat McAfee. He's like, to me, he reminds me of you. He just kind of does what, says whatever he wants. He's free. If the bosses say whatever, he's like, fuck off. I just love that unfiltered, like true thoughts.

He's a guy that's got fuck you money that says fuck you. That's what I love.

It's just, it's beautiful. So I mean, I celebrate, that's a, you know, First Amendment, in his glory right there.

And he seems like a genuine good dude.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know him, but it's like—

I don't know him either, but when you hear a guy talk enough—

Yeah, yeah. You can assume, or you can like put the pieces of puzzle together. But— and they've wore my stuff on there, so I'm like, oh, maybe this is real, right? And so the guy I asked, uh, he's just an AO, uh, he's just a great guy, but he, uh, he said no, it's not, not legit. But they had me because it was like It almost seemed real.

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Predictions offer void in New York. Ends June 28th. Terms at dkng.co/audio. Yeah, somebody asked me like, hey, you know, they said, well, they said, can you do anything about it? Unfortunately, I can't. Like, there's nothing you could do other than tell people it's a scam.

Mm-hmm.

I don't want to tell you how I get guests. I don't want to like give up the process. But I have a guy and I have this guy reach out to people. And, you know, I don't want to talk too much about it because I don't want people to imitate that and pretend that that's how they do it.

But if you get an email— I got here.

Yeah. If you get an email asking for your bank account information, it's not me. No. And it's probably not Anna Faris or Amy Poehler or Tim Dillon or any of those other people. It's all bullshit. No, there's scumbags out there.

Unfortunately, if you say you have some elk meat you'll share, that might be real. Nope.

Oh, I share with friends and family. That's it. I'm not giving it out to weirdos. But, uh, you're bringing some bear meat.

I know. And, dude, you're— I said you're in trouble.

I know.

We got—

we got a lot of notes.

We got notes. I got— I got shit we're gonna discuss today.

They're like— I had a scientist on yesterday. He had less notes.

Less. I know. I'm— I'm ready. Well, we had some—

first of all, before we go any further, yeah, what's going on with your tooth? Why you got a gold tooth? I love it.

Yeah, it's, uh Well, it was— it's kind of a joke, but I've been like for years obsessed with like perfect teeth, right?

And that's like Adam Greenshields always busting your balls.

And, you know, I did like the white strips and all this other shit. And like, I always cared about what— just probably cared too much. So now I don't care what I look like. But what changed? I don't know. I'm just like, been playing the game too long now. It's just like, I'm just done. And the game's not over, unfortunately. Even though I'm saying I don't want to play anymore, game still goes on. So it's like I'm still part of it. But anyway, I was getting this— okay, long story short, um, I had— I broke this in high school, so I had a fake tooth since high school. And, uh, yeah, this is like, long story, kissing this girl, basketball hit me back in the head, broke the tooth.

Anyway, you broke the teeth on her teeth?

Yeah, so she had pieces of teeth in her lip.

Oh, that's crazy.

Oh yeah, it was Jack Devereaux did that. But anyway, we, so I got it fixed, got a few different iterations of it, finally found one that looked good. Well, I go in there, I hadn't been in the dentist in forever 'cause I just hate going. And they said, oh, you got a cavity under that, whatever, composite is what it was called. And I'm like, okay, cool. So we gotta take it off, fix the cavity, then you get a whole nother one. And I'm like, whatever. Um, so I go back in there, next, next appointment, they take it off, no cavity. But now I just have this like whittled down regular tooth, just like a, like a post of a tooth.

So because they removed the cavity, because it—

or there was no cavity?

There was no cavity.

Jesus Christ. I thought on the x-ray there was. So they had the— anyway, that cap or the composite's gone. So they said, well, you need to go and match the color of your teeth for your new fake tooth in Springfield. Swing by this Springfield, um, whatever they do there for dentistry. So I go in there and they said, uh, the girl there goes, hey, my husband Nate makes some really cool gold teeth. He does a really good job. Do you want a gold one? And, uh, I was like, wait. And so she's like, we'll do a white one too, but a gold one might just be fun. And then I'm like, yeah, it'd be fun. So I told Trace, I'm just gonna do it just A day or two. So this has been months now.

You gonna keep it?

I don't know, I kinda like it.

I kinda like it too. I kinda like it.

It's like everybody— Fuck it. You know, everybody's got regular teeth. Nobody's got gold teeth or something like that.

Not anymore. It was a thing back in the day. Remember Mike Tyson had a gold tooth for a while.

Well, this is like my savings account. 'Cause I figure that I'm gonna lose everything 'cause I'm such a fuck up, but I'll still have this. I can sell that.

Just pull that sucker out and you can buy a cheeseburger.

Yeah, if I get in a bind, right? It's like, hey, well, I got this.

I have one crown. I have one fake tooth back here. Cracked one of my molars. I had a root canal and then, um, it like— so then they had to put like a crown on it and then it cracked. Yeah. And so now I gotta get another one because I got a little piece of it missing. I think I'm gonna get a gold one.

Nice.

Get it going right here. Do it, do it. Now you inspired me. It's also— it's in the back, so you won't see it all the time until I— yeah, until I give you a big cheese.

Yeah.

Well, I'm gonna get it. I'm copying you.

Good. When you're cracking up, you always do a big smile. Yeah. So that'll— when people see it, that'll be fun.

Fortunately, I laugh a lot. I know. I live a happy life.

Yeah, you do. You're crushing it lately.

Oh, just keep your foot on the gas.

Same old stuff, right? Just keep going. I can't believe— I look at your guests and it's just like nonstop, dude. It's like, it's— people see like all your success, you'd think most people would be like, okay, I'm good, I'll put my foot off the gas. You don't know. You keep— I mean, you work your ass off.

Well, you very rarely get an opportunity in life to do anything like what I can do, and very few human beings get this opportunity. And I feel insanely fortunate and also very responsible. Like, I'm responsible for this whole thing. I have to keep it rolling. I know people are addicted to it. They love it. They want the variety. They want scientists. They want guys like you. They want athletes and fighters. They want all this shit. They want to hear all these different people talk. All these different perspectives. And it's a huge obligation, you know. And I feel connected to all these people. I know I don't talk to them all the time. I don't know, but I feel it. I know it. And I'm dedicated. So I just keep my foot on the gas. I never— I never say, oh, I can't believe I have to do this. Oh, I can't believe I have to show up.

I just—

yeah, I always try to reset every day and go, God, I'm so lucky. It's so fortunate. And then, you know, when you have that opportunity, I think it's a terrible tragedy a travesty to not capitalize on it, to not like make the most out of it. Because I know that it's like very few human beings in the world. Well, I mean, how many people have ever had the number one podcast? It's always gone like back and forth. I've had it for like 6 years now. Yeah, 6 or 7, might be 7 years now. And it's like, I'm not, I'm not keeping my foot off the gas. I do exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to do it my best. I'm going to keep doing it until the fucking wheels fall off.

That's like people have said, like with bow hunting and stuff, like if you, you know, you work your ass off to get this place where you're respected, right? And then there's going to be people that want your position. And like with your attitude, my attitude too is like, fucking come get it. Yeah, come get it. Come try to take it because I remember I'm working my ass off still.

We were hanging out somewhere and you said one of the coldest things to this dude. This dude was— we were all just fucking around. I really even forget who it was because it didn't matter. And he said, uh, yeah, and after that I'm gonna challenge you to a race, and you go, good luck with that. It was so cold. You go, yeah, like, you didn't even remotely take it seriously. It was like a 5-year-old saying they're gonna kick my ass. Yeah, like, okay, good luck with that.

Yeah, I mean, you get, you get confident when it's something you do, like, further down the line than anybody. Yeah, so If you're going to take my spot, right? I mean, it's been a grind, dude. 40 years.

Yeah. The whole taking the spot thing is so stupid because everybody's on their own little journey and you could look at it in terms of, I'm going to take that guy's spot and maybe that's your motivation and that's cool and all that. But there's a negative attached to that motivation. If you don't have an actual personal beef with someone and you hate them just because they're in a position that you wish you are, you're wasting energy. I know this sounds like very hippie, but it's true. Like, you're— that energy instead should be celebrating that there's people like that out in the world that do inspire you and are out there pushing themselves to like extreme limits and just— and excelling at whatever it is, whether it's fucking playing guitar or doing stand-up comedy. You should look at those people like, Wow, what are they doing that I can do to make myself more successful or better? Or what— where can I get to a point— how can I get to a point where I'm like them? Mm-hmm. But most people don't do that. Most people are like, fuck that guy, that guy fucking sucks, this sucks, and fucking he's a pussy, and he's a this, and he's using steroids, and he's fucking lying about how many miles he runs.

And it's— there's always gonna be people like that. And I'm telling my message to the haters, I was a hater when I was a kid. I was 100% a hater. 100%. Like, all the other people, like, when I was fighting, everybody else was a pussy. They were all pussies. Yeah, unless they weren't in my weight division. They weren't in my weight division, then I could celebrate it. But everybody in my weight division was a pussy. That guy's— I'm gonna fuck that guy up. He's got nothing. I could never celebrate people, even like national champions, people with the ring. I couldn't celebrate them, right? It's a waste. It's a waste of energy. Yeah. And you get more energy out of looking at what they do well and analyzing it and being inspired by it. It's a hard struggle because your ego wants you to compare yourself to them and find flaws in them. You know, fuck that guy, fuck this, fuck that. It's a waste of energy. Yeah. You have to be selfish with your energy. Your energy is very critical. It's everything in life. Yeah. Everything you do in life is dependent upon you having energy.

And for you to waste your energy in some stupid ego-driven direction just because you're too weak to recognize, like, oh, this guy can kick my ass. Oh, this guy could shoot a bow further than me. Oh, this guy runs way farther than I can run. Oh, this guy's way better at playing guitar than me. What the fuck can I do to get where he's at? Yeah, you got to just— that's a— it's a trap because not only does it take away energy, it takes away progress. It takes away energy from you investing in you being better in the future, right? It's bad all around. Yeah, there's no good to it at all.

No, I, I agree with that. And it's like that, that energy is a resource that we have to protect. I think that when you talk about, like, you talk about all the outliers that you, you have this conversation with or sit across the table from you, and I think your attitude and how you look at things, like, in that lens, that makes people want to come on. Like you said, you listed all these people and people want to hear what they have to say.

People want to hear what they have to say to you.

Because you have a way of drawing out more information in a different way because your attitude is so pure. I think, like, even if you didn't believe what you said, it would still— if, if you just said, like, I want to be positive, but your questions were all negative, like, in tone, or, like, confrontational in tone, people wouldn't want to be on here like they want to be on here now. You being positive and looking at things like, how can I get better? How can I grow? How can we all learn and, and, um, um, get better from this. That's the lens that you put the information that comes out through these microphones out into the world, which means people are attracted to you. People are attracted to the guests you have. People are attracted to the show. And so, yeah, that energy, we, even though, even if we don't admit it, we're attracted to it. You know what I mean? You seek it out. And, um, I know when I'm, I like to hear people paint a picture of something that gives me hope. Mm-hmm. I don't want to hear about how fucked up everything is all the time, right?

I want hope. How can I have hope? Because hope gives me purpose. I'm like, okay, I can do this. I can— I got to get to work and this will, this will pay off.

Yeah.

So I think it's like, it's more complicated than we, than we think. But there's a reason why you're number one and have been number one, and it's your attitude. And it's, it's how you speak to people.

It's also I got in really early, right? So I got in at like 2009 and there was hardly anybody doing it back then. Yeah. So you could, you could also— I wasn't as famous back then, so you could do it for a long time before anybody noticed you were doing it, right? You could get good at it.

So you could hone your craft, right? Yeah.

You didn't have a bunch of comments that you had to sift through. You didn't have that. You just did it.

If you started now, maybe you wouldn't be number one. No, I wouldn't be. You know what I mean?

Because there's so many— there's— I mean, how many podcasts are there now? Yeah, like, what's the number?

10 mil? 5 million?

I checked, it was like 7 or 8 million. It probably keeps growing every week. So, because everybody thinks they can do it, because everybody can talk well.

And, and the people starting now, they might be you down the road. Oh yeah, for sure. There might be some You know, they'll be them incredible conversationalists that they'll be them.

They'll be a different thing than me, but they'll be amazing at it.

But you had, because you had this insight or, you know, you saw Tom Green or whoever it was that like, oh, maybe I could do that. You started this process of this decades of honing your craft to where it is now. And now you've been on top for 6, 7 years. Right. And it's just because of all those reps that you did, it's, it's no different than anything we always talk about.

It's everything.

Everything is reps. Yeah, and it's just like, you want to get good at something, you fail. Keep doing it.

Archery is reps, pool is reps, martial arts are reps. It's all reps, it's all experience, and it's all like being like super focused on what you're trying to do, whatever it is.

Yeah, I think like, I even think of, you know, I love Sean Ryan and he has an incredible podcast, but I get why this is happening. He's pretty down kind of on a lot right now, just with government, with Israel, with Epstein, with all that, which is by design almost. They want us to be hopeless. And I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but they do want us hopeless because we can be controlled. But Sean, his podcast lately has taken more— I don't want to say dark because it's more real, but it's like it's darker. So I just think that attracts less people and a different type of person than yours. You have every reason to be dark about things and you are sometimes, but that's not the theme of you.

Well, I think these— it's like—

Sehr gut, sehr gut, sehr gut.

Sehr gut? Wieso? Steuer ist sehr gut.

Das sagen ganz viele.

Cool. Wer sagt das? Stiftung Warentest, Computerbild, Focus Money, Chip, Finanztipp. Such dir was aus. Mega. Aber das ist doch bestimmt kompliziert.

Nö.

Einfach Foto von der Lohnsteuerbescheinigung machen und fertig. Klingt sehr gut.

Ist sehr gut.

Hol dir dein Geld zurück mit Wieso Steuer. First of all, people that aren't comedians, they're limited in what they can talk about and the way they can talk about things. You know, being a comedian, there's a little bit of a safety net.

Little freedom.

You can always like, yeah, what the fuck, it's a joke. I'm a comedian. We're fucking around.

You get a little, you can write it off a little bit.

It's also, that's real in terms of like another layer of conversation. Like, there's a layer of conversation that is commonly known as talking shit, and talking shit is a thing that you do where you're with your boys and you say things that you don't really mean because they're funny. Yeah, and you make each other laugh. You talk about how many dicks you sucked last night. You know, why is your mouth so sore? You know, like, you fuck around, you say things, you're silly. You know, you talk about, oh, you know, it's hard doing all this meth. You know, you don't you're not really doing meth, right? There's— you're not really having gay sex, right? You're fucking around. Yeah. And when you can't fuck around, there's a whole realm of the conversation that's missing.

Yeah, for sure.

And there's a whole, like, like, get out of jail pass. Like, let's have fun, let's loosen up a little here. And then you can't loosen up. You're serious, right?

And then where does the conversation go? Back to the serious part, which changes it.

It's also the serious stuff is what gets engagement. Yeah, and that's a little bit of a trap where if you only focus on the bad of the world— and it's not saying you should ignore the bad of the world, you certainly shouldn't— but if you only focus on the bad of the world, it's kind of a trap. Yeah, it'll fuck your head up too. You're swimming in negativity all the time.

That's what I see Sean— that's a feeling I've got with Sean lately. Whereas with the differences with you, there's a reset. There's always this reset back to good. The message is good.

Yeah, I think—

and I don't think you're— I don't, I don't think you— that's not by design, that's just who you are.

Yeah, no, it's not by design, it's just, uh, that's how I think. Yeah, like you can only dwell on negativity so much. Most of your day is not negative, in fact. Yeah, it's— there's things that you need to be aware of and need to be prepared for them.

And the problem is, is no, it's not, but our voices are oftentimes negative, so It's easy if, like, if you get in that trap where you're listening to negative and you're thinking negative, it's a lot of negative, dude. Yeah. So it's like knowing that, you know, I can go down a negative rabbit hole pretty easy. I try to avoid wading in that.

Well, sometimes it's like you just get fed up. You're like, where the fuck are these Epstein files? Yeah. Who the fuck is this? Why is this redacted? Where is it? Who the fuck killed JFK?

Right.

Like, come out with it. What the fuck? Who fucking killed Charlie Kirk for real? Yeah, like, what is that? Why is that fucking story so clouded in mystery? And why did they pave over the fucking ground right after the shooting? What the fuck is going on there?

See, now you're making me a bad man.

That's— but that— it's easy to do. It's easy to do. It's easy to get locked up in that.

Do you see my notes? Look at my two on the very top.

What does it say? Stay positive, be nice, and what does that other one say? You have terrible handwriting.

Be positive.

Oh, be nice, be positive. Well, your handwriting's terrible.

It is.

You should be a doctor.

But no, I have to remind myself, like, because I— if you start mentioning those things that you just did, that was hard, dude. I will fucking lose my shit because I'm so pissed.

I know, and you should be. And we were all pissed. We were all, you know, we all thought that, you know, all that stuff was going to be released right after the election. It's gonna— we're gonna drain the swamp and find all the pedophiles.

And well, the first term was more like that. That's what gave me hope for this term. The first term, there was some draining the swamp going on. I felt then we had the Biden disaster and now the second term has been— I don't even know what this is. I don't even know what it is.

Well, it would have been a whole lot different for— first of all, if we didn't bomb Iran, I feel like we bombed them the first time. We were good. The second time was like, even the first time I was like, what the fuck are we doing?

Yeah.

And then when they were saying like, this is it, the escalation's over, we're going to work this out.

Like, oh, yeah.

And the second time when we bombed them, I was like, oh, fucking great. Now, and the most people don't want it. That's the real problem. Most people in the country don't want it. Now, look, I'm no fucking foreign policy expert. I don't know what's going on over there. But I do know that all the people I know that really support Israel above everything else, they're fucking super happy about it. And I'm like, but all the people I know that are like America first, or people that are like no new wars, that really thought that we're gonna change things, and this is all just for money, we're not gonna sacrifice soldiers for fucking money, those people are all upset. I don't know really what's going on though. That's the problem. And I really wish I understood Iranian politics more and the Iranian military structure, because it seems like that's super fucking complicated. Like, they've been preparing to be attacked like this forever. Mm-hmm. And so they have like all these layers of control. Like when this guy gets taken out, new guys are like ready to fill their spot. And then when we're negotiating with the new guy, Israel kills him.

Like, it's like, the fuck is going on?

I know.

And then what happened yesterday? They captured like 20 oil tankers.

Oh, did they? I didn't even see that.

Yeah, there was some, I don't know, it might be bullshit. I just read it very quickly on the toilet in one of the rare weak moments where I traveled to X. Yeah, it's a— I mean, boy, I've been so healthy lately. Last few months, just staying off of fucking Instagram. Really? Staying off of Twitter, just not reading anything. Yeah. Not anything, but Instagram started funneling me schizophrenics.

Oh.

I don't know how. I follow one schizophrenic. My name is Dolores. I am the real granddaughter of JFK. The gold that's in the basement is all mine. They're trying to stuff shit inside my vagina. They wake me up in the middle of the night. Crazy people. Yeah, not just one, but like a whole fucking series of them. And I started getting those a couple of weeks ago. And again, I might spend like 10-15 minutes, but it's all schizophrenic people. Like, I gotta get off of this. Yeah, there's no reason.

It's interesting. It's— that's what— crazy. That's what gets you hooked.

I got this one lady, she was a hooker and she's a crackhead, and she thinks everyone's a man. Like, so she'll show photos of all these different people. That's a fucking man.

She's just fucking out there.

Lunch. One guy thinks he's the rightful president of the United States and he wears like this dirty old suit. You can look in his eyes, he's out there. The dude's gone. He lives in a completely different dimension than we do. And he's on Instagram.

I start watching like sometimes street fights.

Oh, I watch a lot of those.

There's a lot of those out there. Or the joke— the pranks or the jokes or pets.

It's like Pets are cool.

And then it's just like, but they— it's just a trap. Uh-huh. Just keeps you there.

And then an hour's gone and you're like, what did I do for an hour? It's just terrible for you. But since I've been really good about it, I'm just so much healthier. When I take like full days, like days off, I feel so much better. And I'm like, remember when we were in Hawaii? We went to Hawaii a few years back and we went bow hunting and for axis deer on Lanai, and I broke my phone. Phone. I don't know if you remember this, but my phone just started calling people. I'd be like, "Look at this, this is crazy." I'd hang up and it'd start calling a new person. Hang up. So I had to get a new phone and it took like 3 days. And those were like 3 of the happiest days of my life. And I'm like, "Oh, I should just get rid of my phone." I was thinking that, but I was like, "Oh, I can't wait until my phone gets here." Well, where it's really handy is taking pictures of cool stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And capturing those memories.

And if you have a question, yeah, I love it for— because I've always have a question about something. I love that Siri— now you could just press Siri and ask it a question like, how many minutes are in a month? And it'll just tell you. Yeah, like right up. Ooh, like you'd be driving on the car, you have a question, just press a button and it gives you the answer. Yeah, fucking nuts.

How many times did you have a question? You're just like, I'll probably never figure that out. Exactly. Now no question goes unanswered.

Literally instantaneous.

Yeah.

You know, and, you know, I'll use Perplexity all throughout the day to just ask it questions because I'm just driving around or I'm sitting at home and I'm like, I wonder how that happened. And just now, you know, like instantaneously. Yeah, but the dealing with all the people stuff, that's, that's where I checked out. I'm like, I'm not interested in that. I don't like— it's like if you get a bowl of soup and there's little pieces of meat, but most of the soup is shit. All right, I would recommend not eating that soup. Yeah, and that's what social media is like. It's like I get some meat out of it here and there. I get some interesting stories about science and some new discovery from the James Webb Telescope, like, whoa, this is fucking cool, and it'll send me down a nice rabbit hole where I'm like studying things and getting excited about things. And then I'll just deal with some fucking kooks and crazy people and shitheads and grifters and people that are mad that people are white and people that are mad that people are black and like, oh, fucking Christ.

It's exhausting.

It's too much.

It's exhausting.

Yeah, it's just, it's just eating soup with shit in it. Yeah, it's just like, it's not worth it. Yeah, speaking of which, you brought in some of that bear. Grab some of that, son. So, and so a lot of people are of the opinion that black bear is not an edible meat, and that is, that is incorrect.

I got a grizzly cougar here full of all sorts of people.

Can't hear you. Unless you're on that microphone.

Okay, give me some. So also this—

no one can hear that either. You got to get to the microphone.

Also, this—

put that thing down and have a seat.

So do you know who Casey Brooks is?

I've heard the name.

So he killed the world record elk.

That's right. Yeah, yeah, that giant one. That thing is crazy.

He does— this is like super hot stuff. Oh, here's what it's called. What do you need to know about Chilean whatever?

See, there's Chilean. You know, need to know about—

well, it's all worn out. I know, it's maybe on the other page.

But mighty Chilean chili. Yeah, okay, so it's a type of chili.

Yeah, you put that on like when you're cooking steaks.

Where's that knife, Jamie?

Yeah, oh, here's one.

Thank you.

Look at that.

Oh, sweet. Oh, look at that fucking elk, man. Oh my God, that's nuts. That thing is literally nuts. What was the score on that?

It was like 386 or something.

No, 486.

Or no, 486. Yeah, yeah, like almost close to 500.

Yeah. Whoa, this smells strong.

Does it?

Oh my God. Yeah, so these are the chili— oh, so this is, uh, yeah, he said you don't need much. It says—

what did it say, 480?

It says sprinkle this shit on everything.

Okay, yeah, this is cool. Yeah, so I, I brought— and also, do you know his son? His son is a really good elk caller. I mean, I don't know, I know he makes calls. Yeah, we don't usually mess around with that.

Um, I learned how to do these just last year.

His son is Beau Brooks.

I learned how to make a female elk call because I had a little one that I blow on. Yeah, so I never learned how to use a reed.

Yeah, the mouth reed.

I definitely don't know how to make an elk set with the tube. I'm fucking terrible.

Well, let me see that knife real quick. My— yeah, this is the old Packout Skinner from Montana Knife. But here's the good stuff right here. So we got some of this. Tell me what you think of this.

I've had it the last time you brought us from the same—

no, this is Butcher Company. This White's up in Portland, and this is Ronnie. Ronnie's the man, dude.

Portland, Oregon has a good wild game.

Yeah, I think it's more like Gresham, but it's so good.

Oh, that is good.

Tell me what you think of that.

That's fantastic.

Yeah, that— thank you, Ronnie. And then this is, uh, no trichinosis, right?

Trichinosis-free.

Then this is—

I mean, have you ever tested yourself for trichinosis to see if you have it? You might already have it.

Some bear jerky too.

You might have it and ignored it.

So the jerky is so good. And then also like this says White's on it right here. White's Country Meats. So we got sausage.

Oh, you made breakfast sausage? Yeah, it's so good.

Nice. And then we got some rendered bear fat right here. Oh, wow. I brought you that so you can cook with that.

Oh, it's dark.

Yeah.

Why is it so dark?

I don't know.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah, Clay Newcomb gave me some.

Did he? Yeah. Okay, have you ever used it?

Yeah, I cooked steaks with it. Okay, it's great for searing steaks, you know, just like even beef tallow. Yeah, but it gives it a different flavor for sure.

Definitely. So he, he did a— it's like— and also like the, the bear in the spring, their fat is a little different, so it's— it just reacts differently after making the pepperoni and rendering the fat. It just reacts a little differently because they've just come out of hibernation up there. This is one of the big bear I just killed. And yeah, so it's just perfect timing for, I guess, rendering fat and making sausage.

I was watching those videos that Jen was making from bear camp. Yeah, where she smoked that bear for like 24 hours.

Yeah, so good.

God, look insane. It looked like so good. They're like, she's like a gourmet chef now with bear.

Yeah, and then they had the Meat Church guy up there this last week. Yeah, and so they were like You know, bear meat, when you put a whole back ham on the Traeger— so she, she let it soak, marinate for 4 days, right? And I saw people saying, oh, if you did shoe leather for 4 days, it'd be good. Whatever. I'm just telling you what it was. 4 days and then 20 hours of a slow cook on the Traeger. Best meat you've ever had. It's like incredible. That's bear. And you know, there's like people talk about The settlers back in the day, they would eat bear and just kill deer for hides.

Isn't that crazy?

To make clothing, because bear was superior meat. So people have fallen into this trap of like believing that bear meat isn't good, and it's amazing.

Well, it's cuz of Yogi. Yeah, Yogi fucked us. Probably. Yeah, Yogi and the one that tells you not to start fires. Who's that guy?

Smokey.

Smokey. Smokey the Bear, Yogi. Yeah, they fucked us. Yeah, they did. Then Disney— Disney fucked us, you know. If it wasn't for those anthropomorphizations of animals where they turned them into sweet, you know, beautiful creatures that talk to you— yeah, we would have a completely different idea of animals, and they're a much more realistic idea of animals, for sure, which I think most hunters have. You love them, you respect them, but they all have to be managed. I sent Whitney Cummings a video that they got in Santa Monica the other day of a mountain lion in someone's backyard. Big fucker just laying in the grass in this dude's backyard in Santa Monica, man.

Yeah, there's—

I mean, I don't know if you know where anymore, but I can't eat too much, people get annoyed.

Oh yeah, that's true.

It's good though.

It's— that's a jalapeño cheddar. Mm, how's it taste? Can you taste it?

The one— the first one I had was jalapeño cheddar. Yeah, it's fucking great. It's really good.

So good.

Yeah, and I know what people say about Oh, you can make anything. Look at that, that's the cat in the backyard. Oh man, that fucking nuts, man. Look at his eyes. Yeah, fuck you, man.

Fuck you.

Yeah, it's, uh, meanwhile they build a stupid bridge for them and it's, uh, way over budget. It's over $100 million now for the stupid fucking bridge so they can cross. We have to make sure that the monsters can get across the highway safely. Trust me, I am of a completely different opinion. I say put one of those fucking big-ass grilles on your car like I have on my Land Cruiser and let's hope we get a few of them.

Them.

Yeah, so they don't kill people's dogs. Mm-hmm. Look at this right there in the middle. Yes, 14th. This is knocked on 4th. That is bananas. Look where it is. Look how dense— look how dense the housing is.

There is a mountain lion right there, and they think a mountain lion is gonna go find this bridge.

Well, they, they probably will eventually find the bridge, but there's a bunch of retards that'll still make their way across the highway, and they're supposed to get hit. That's, that's nature. Yeah, that's figure it out. Yeah, figure it out or die. Yeah, figure it out or die. There's too many of them. They, they're so unrealistic about their mountain lion numbers. Yeah, there's way too many of them. They're all over California because they don't manage them.

That's what we talked— yeah, we talked about that last time. And it's like, I just wonder what is, you know, what's the goal? Because now, you know, I wore this shirt today because now public land is again back in the crosshairs. I don't know if you saw that.

Yeah. What is going on?

This Mike Lee guy?

Yeah, that same guy.

Same fucking guy. He's trying to like—

this is Utah guy, right?

The Utah guy. So right now it's like there's this bill that was going to be introduced. It was like talking about wildfires, essentially. But it's like, it's what he's done is he's tied in this public land piece to it. Well, like they always do, there's always these other provisions tied in with all these bills.

Right.

Right. And you don't really know what you're agreeing to or what you're not. But he put in this roadless area section because there's 400 or 45 million acres of roadless area that he wants access to. Basically, they're not saying this. They're saying for some other reason, I think, oh, here's what they said. We have so many acres of roadless area that to fight wildfires, we need roads. Okay? They don't care about fighting wildfires. It's— they care about resource extraction or development, right?

Maybe development. But development's a tough sell in a lot of those wilderness areas. But what's not—

that's what they tried with this. Remember, remember the affordable housing?

Yeah.

Like, oh, just the areas—

tried to say that's what it was.

That was supposedly affordable housing, which acres of acreage. Like years ago, I went back and talked to Jason Chaffis. He was, he was a representative there in Utah. And I went back there and spoke to him. And at that time, it was about surplus acreage. So there's 3 million surplus acres nobody's using.

Someone told me that has something to do with the Mormon religion, that the Mormon religion has a philosophy about selling land. That's very different than our philosophy.

They might. I'm not sure.

About public land.

I'm not, and I think—

Somebody told me that. See if there's any reality to that, that the Mormons almost have like a mandate to try to sell land. Mm-hmm. I don't know if that makes any sense. This is not my thought. Someone told me this and I was like, wait, what? And I don't think I ever looked it up.

Right. I do that too. All the time. I'm like, I need to look that up and then I never do. And then I never know anything more. But yeah, so, I went back, talked to Jason. At that time it was surplus acreage. Then this time it was affordable housing. Now this time it's wildfire fighting, which if you get into the weeds on fighting wildfires, it's— there's the National Forest Service already has $10 billion of road work they need to do on roads that are failing right now. So they're saying you're going to add more roads to the $10 billion worth of work that the roads already need maintenance on. Don't think so. What they're gonna do is, and then also if you make roads, the stats say 85 to 90% of fires are started within a half mile of a road. So it's not the wilderness areas that are in danger that we need to figure out how to fight fires back there. There's hardly any fires back there. It's always about the roads we've created that we can't maintain. That's where the fires are starting, right?

Right, because it's usually people.

It's human cause. 90% of the time it's human. It's— that's only like a small percentage of fires that can't be fought.

Here it is. Some Utah politicians who are members of the LDS Mormon Church have pushed proposals to sell or transfer federal public lands, but this is a political movement, not an official LDS Church program, and other Mormon groups openly oppose it. So Utah's— see, more disinformation somebody tried to feed me. Yeah. And I kind of helped spread it. Utah is heavily dominated by federal land. 42% of the state is managed by the Bureau of Land Management alone, even more under other federal agencies, because so much federal— so much of Utah's federal fights over whether to retain, transfer, or sell some of that land is especially intense there.

Yeah, this next part is about Mike Lee, which—

conservative Utah Republicans such as Senator Mike Lee have proposed budget or legislative plans that would make millions of acres of western public land eligible for sale, arguing it would boost housing or local economies. The housing thing is like, hey man, fuck you. No, you're not putting houses in the mountains. I don't believe you. Well, I think most likely what you're doing is there's natural gas out there or minerals out there or something.

It's a— I mean, they don't care about— first of all, they'd have to build infrastructure out there in the mountains, which, you know, water, power, that's not gonna happen.

What is this Wyoming thing? Says that Wyoming case would have been the first time a registered National Historic Site was sold into private ownership, which is why it drew attention. What are they referring to though? Uh, a national historic site along Oregon Trail could end up in the hands of private owners at the request of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Oh, so the church tried to purchase public land.

So down, down to that next one, it says LDS teachings require strong stewardship and explicitly advocate preserving and protecting public lands.

So, okay, that goes against just politicians, like what he's doing.

And I think he's like beholden to Trump. Trump's like his errand boy for this public land thing because Trump doesn't give a fuck about public land, but his son does.

This is what doesn't make any sense.

Like, his Donald Trump Jr., does he listen to anybody?

I don't know. I don't think so. To me about psychedelics.

Well, that— okay, we'll talk to him about this.

Is that it again with sneaky roadless rule amendments? Yeah, well, maybe if I see him this weekend— well, I will see him this weekend, but maybe I'll talk to him about that. But I don't think—

there was a sentence in there that I just saw. It says 99% right here, right in the middle. 99% of Americans oppose repealing the roadless rule. Okay, so why? They work for us, isn't that right? So the reason why I got to this is because you talked about the mountain lions. It's like, why don't they listen to people like the public? The public would say, yeah, we probably need to hunt mountain lions, keep them managed.

I don't think the public of California would. I think I'm opposed to that. I'm opposed to ballot box biology.

No, no, me too.

So they got wolves into Colorado.

But I'm just wondering, like with this, this roadless rule, they didn't ask the public anything.

Right.

And 99% of the public oppose it.

Yeah, that's way— I think I would say way more people oppose that than oppose any kind of hunt.

Hunting thing. Yeah, I'm good with— okay, so on your point then, I want biologists making the decision on hunting. 100%. I don't want politicians making the decision on land use.

100%.

All right. So that's all I'm— yeah, that's all I'm saying. It's like, let's have experts in the field decide these things. It's like, who is the expert in the field who decided the White House needs a ballroom?

I called in. No.

But it's like, how are these decisions being made? Like this roadless rule, this was like a last-minute add-on that the public did not get a chance to vote on. How is that okay?

No, it's not okay. It's super fucking sneaky. And I think all of our positions should be like your t-shirt, the Teddy Roosevelt position. Yeah. Not one acre. Like, we have an amazing system here.

We do.

The public land system in the United States is completely unique to the rest of the world. It's very different. And the fact that you can go out there and that is your land. If you are a citizen of the United States of America, public land is your land, and you have access to incredible wilderness, beautiful places. And if you've got the endurance and the ability to go deep in there, you could go to places where there's no fucking people and it's unbelievably pristine wilderness, and it's owned by the entire country. And we got to keep it that way. We can't We can't let that slippery slope get into play. As soon as they start giving away some of it or selling away some of it, they'll fucking keep going. Not one acre.

Once you lose something, you don't get it back. Ever. And this, especially with this public land, like at this time when we all came together, it was outdoorsmen in all regards. It was hunting, hiking, fishing, whoever, recreators. Yeah. Like what? It's like people who just love and appreciate public lands. We all came together, shot it down, and the public sentiment was vicious. Right. And they couldn't ignore it. We need the same thing now because at this time, I know we did so much. Everybody came together. But when they do these, they wear us down with these last-minute deals and add on these things because it's like, how many things can you keep fighting and fighting and fighting? And you're like, I thought we already got this. This? Didn't we solve this already? And now it's back.

Well, I think that's one of the reasons why they keep so many fucking balls in the air at the same time, is because you can't fight it all, you know? It's like, do you really care about the Epstein files, or do you care about UFO disclosure? Yeah, I know, the UAPs. We're gonna have a big meeting on Monday, we're gonna have a big release on Wednesday.

So, okay, so I think they took— to me, it seems pretty nefarious that they're like, say, oh, we got all these fucking dipshits worried about this roadless rule. Okay, we can distract some of them with aliens. Got an alien stuff. All right. Okay. Oh, we could, we could distract some of them with fighting. We got the White House fight coming up. Okay, that's— and now all of a sudden now it's way quieter because they've distracted some of these core groups with this other bullshit, right? And it's the bread and circus thing. And like, I kind of agree with Bryce Mitchell who said this, that it's not for the White House to be putting on sporting events. That's not— we hire the government to run our country, not entertain us.

True. Yeah, no, I look, I don't like it because I think they should be fighting indoors always. I think world championship fights at the highest level should be fought in a controlled environment. That said, it's gonna be sick.

It's gonna be, it's gonna be. I'm gonna watch.

I have to— like, people think, oh, Rogan's negative. I got a no I'm not negative, but I'm not positive either. I don't— if it was me, if I was running the UFC, I would never run the UFC. But if I was running the UFC, I would have never wanted to do it. Yeah, I would have said we can't do it. They have to be in a controlled environment. We can't have a world championship fight. We can't have someone win or lose because they're outside and it's muggy. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. It's gonna affect the grappling. It's gonna be like hot oil wrestling. Everyone's gonna be sweaty as fuck. Yeah. It's gonna be completely different then. And also your endurance is gonna be less.

No, no submissions going— probably gonna happen.

Well, you know, maybe, but also you can get under a neck way quicker.

All right, like a— slide your arm through there.

Yeah, you could cinch up a rear naked choke with someone sweating. Yeah, you get, get it right under the chin. Yeah, that'd be tough. It slides in there. But most grapplers would not prefer that. Most grapplers would prefer an air-conditioned arena. Like normal. It should be fucking 72 degrees, just like it always is, you know. It should be air-conditioned like it always is.

But even that, the controlling the hands, because, you know, like, if you're top or bottom, like, the big part is like the wrist control. Yeah, like, if you're sweaty— oh yeah, that's tough.

I mean, back in the old days, dudes used to lie down in a bathtub filled with baby oil.

Yeah.

And then they would wash it off, and so then they would, you know, get warmed up, and then when they would start sweating, the baby oil would come out of their pores. Because it's like when you soak in baby oil for hours— I'm not accusing any individuals doing this, but I know for a fact it happened. And guys would be completely greased up, and you could wipe them down with a towel, it wouldn't matter. I mean, the grease is everywhere, it's in their fucking pores. And as soon as they start sweating, you try to get ahold of them, it's just— weep! It's like trying to hold on to a fucking salmon in the middle of the water. They just slip right out of your fingers.

Well, that happens too if you eat McDonald's all the time. Just kind of grease out your pores. So they should try that.

Maybe that'll work. I think that affects your performance. But the sweat is going to be a big issue. The outside, the bugs, that's going to be a big issue.

Thunderstorms.

Oh yeah, it's going to rain. Another forecast that says starting around 2:00 rain, 3:00 thunderstorms, 7:00 rain.

It looks great.

Oh, by 8:00 it's only showers. Don't be a pussy. Just showers. Yeah, maybe they'll cancel it. Look, I think if they canceled it and moved it indoors, it'd be better for everybody. I don't like it.

It.

I think the idea was like they want the, the octagon, the White House behind it. Yeah, for image and everything like that, it's gonna be dope. The card is sick. It's a fucking amazing card. The card, I mean, it's only 7 fights and all of them are bangers. From the opening one with Steve Garcia and Diego Lopez, bam, right off the gate. It's like Bo Nickal and Kyle Daukas, bam, right out the gate. I mean, it's, it's gonna be a sick fucking card. The card's amazing.

That does look incredible.

That's the lightning catcher that they put over there. Yeah, it's gonna be nuts. It's gonna be nuts if it happens. But if it rains like crazy, you know, but I mean, everybody will love it if it rains. All the people who hate it, yeah, rain on those MAGA fucks. Oh God, you're ruining our country, man. I know, it's a very divided time.

Oh, it's, it's nuts.

Yeah, but like I said, my concern is for the athletes. A fighter's career is very short. A loss is devastating. And to not have perfect conditions to fight in, I think it's crazy. Yeah, but it's also gonna be sick. It's like being there is gonna be nuts, and maybe it's worth it. I don't know, we'll find out.

Well, you got to hand it to Dana for going big like he always does. I mean, you know, they always— does— he was at that the Sphere in Vegas, right? It's like, wasn't that was out of the box, but it was amazing.

Yeah, that was sick. That was a one-time-only thing. That was so much money. But this is a one-time-only thing supposedly too. But apparently Trump doesn't want to take the octagon down. He wants to leave it up.

Really? I don't know, man. I think it would be great.

Have guys like, you know, come in and train at the White House for a couple of weeks. That'd be the next gimmick. I mean, why not?

Fuck it.

Yeah, it's just the whole thing's chaos anyway.

It's a crazy time.

I mean, what, Biden could have a giant LGBT flag in front of the White House and have trans people pulling their breasts out? Remember that? Like, they had big Pride Day, like a big Pride flag in front of the White House.

Like, I'll take, I'll take this over that.

It's like, all of it is silly. Yeah, it's also— that should have nothing to do with the White House. This should have nothing to do with the White House, right? But, you know, and then there's a lawsuit right now —like, people are trying to sue to keep the UFC out the way. They'll probably lose. Yeah, I don't— I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.

But I would imagine they're not going to win. I'm a huge fighting fan, UFC fan. You know, Dana White is like an icon. I love all the fighters. I just love everything about it. It's— I just, you know, I kind of agree with Bryce Mitchell's take on it, which you can get in trouble with agreeing with him because he has a lot of takes. But, but on this one, I kind of get it. And Yeah, I mean, I don't blame the fighters at all for jumping to this opportunity. No, it's like the whole world's gonna watch.

It's gonna be probably the most watched sporting event maybe in history. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's on Paramount, so it'll be on CBS as well, right? I don't know. Probably available. Is it on CBS? So it's on CBS as well, so it'll be available to everybody. And then all the haters are gonna watch it too. Oh, for sure. I want to talk shit. Yeah, so it'll probably be covered on CNN, what a disaster it was, and They've already talked a lot about how I'm not into it. Yeah, I have to be honest about what I'm into and what I'm not into. I can't just agree with something if I don't agree with it. I'll be respectful. I'll, you know, I'm obviously a huge fan of the UFC and it's always an honor to work for them and I love it, but I don't like it. But I'll still— yeah, when I'm there, I'm like, oh, this is sick. Oh, maybe after it's over, I'm like, they were right. Or maybe it'll be like, oh, it fucking rained. It was— what a shit show. Yeah, it was lightning that canceled the fights.

Was a huge disaster for CBS. It's live sports. It's like you never know.

I mean, if they pull the entire audience out and just have the guys fight in the cage under the canopy, now I'm in.

Yeah, that's like Apex style. Now I like it.

Yeah, I like it. No crowd, just us. Just me, DC, and Anik.

Ooh, that'd be pretty fun.

Now I like it. Now I like it. And you know, we're protected by the rain, but everybody else isn't, so they all have to leave. Fuck yeah. Because I think it's gonna be also a lot of like, look at me, people gonna dress up nice for it and like, because they know they're gonna be on television. Oh yeah, and it's, you know, I get it. But I, it's really, for me, it's about the fights. Yes, there's gigantic fights on that card. The Justin Gaethje/Ilya Topuria fight, I am very interested in that fight. I'm very interested in that fight. I really wish it was like at the T-Mobile or Madison Square Garden or whatever, but Who cares? I, I, that's a fight I have a lot of questions about. Yeah, see that fight happen.

I mean, Justin's quite a bit bigger, but Ilia is so skilled, bro.

He's— I watched a whole— I watched his entire career last night. Mm-hmm. So there was a— the UFC put out a video about Ilia saying, is Ilia Topuria the GOAT? And it goes from his first fight in the UFC to his last victory, and you watch every single fight of his career, and you watch him get better over time. And, you know, it gets deeper into his career, and then you see his last 3 fights and you're like, good Lord. Yeah, he was awesome when he first entered the UFC, but he just kept getting better. So the Yusuf Salah fights, the first fight that goes to a decision. You know, and, and then you, you watch the progression. He starts KOing people. His last 3 KOs over the biggest stars, they're some of the greatest of all time. Max. Yeah, who? Who? Who? Charles Oliveira. Yeah, Charles Oliveira, one of the greatest of all times. Max Holloway, one of the greatest of all times. And then Alexander Volkanovski, the greatest featherweight of all time. Yeah, like fucking crazy. Knocked them out. Knocked all 3 of them out. How? That's one of the greatest resumes of all time.

CBS won't air UFC White House event. Viewers would need Paramount+ to watch. What happened? Did they back out of it? Huh. Oh, they would not televise it. That means you— I wonder if like Paramount— White decided— cited the plan to tell America's story during the show as the reason CBS would not be involved. What? The plan to tell America's story.

What? That doesn't even make sense.

What does that mean? Uh, we don't want to talk about America's story on CBS? No, because there's only X number of fights and it starts from the first one, White said. We start at the beginning of time and like the Mexican Independence Day fight, we're gonna have the story of America from the first fight to the last. So no, they'll all be on Paramount. So it's gonna start out with European settlers coming over and giving everyone smallpox. And then you're gonna see all the Indians die, and then we're gonna go, oh, look at all these buffalo, because there's no one there to kill them. And then we're gonna see people come across on wagon trains and kill each other. It should be fun.

Yeah, it's gonna be a good story.

It's gonna be a very accurate story. So how the United States started, it'll start from back when we fucked up Mexico in like, what was that, 1861 to get Texas? No, what year did they— no, it was like 1821, wasn't it? Like that Mexico owned Texas? We'll start from the beginning. We'll go all the way to buying Alaska for like $50. Yeah, people love it.

Why wouldn't you want to? It'd be good. It'd be great. Yeah, it's, I don't know, it's gonna be a spectacle for sure. I'll be tuning in. Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah, it's gonna be, you're at the White House all the time now.

I've been there a couple times. Yeah, it's weird. It's very weird. It's also very weird because as much as people hate Trump and hate his decisions and hate what he's doing and hate how he talks, and I— my experiences with him personally have always been fun, unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately for everybody else. Like, you know, if he likes you and you're on his good side, he's a fun guy to be around. Yeah, says a lot of fun shit. The fucking man loves America. He genuinely does. He really does. Like, he wants to make the White House look better. He wants to build this ballroom because he want— like, he has good intentions in terms of America. It's just there is not a single fucking person that's ever taken the job of the President of the United States that's loved by everybody. Yeah, but his— the issues that he's having right now is a lot of the stuff that is going on in this country is contrary to what people voted for. And that's what people are upset about. The war, the war specifically.

That I don't— you know, we voted for protecting the border. Uh-huh. And they did that. Yeah, it's American manufacturing, protecting America's interests, like with trade, with just protecting people's jobs so we have a way to work and provide for our family. America first. That was what— that sounded good to me. And it feels like this isn't any of that. Like, it feels like even his administration at first, I was just like, oh, fuck, these are some— this is good. But it feels like if you go against him in any way, you're fucking gone. Well, it's that for sure.

And then it's also you know, the amount of political pressure, you know, you have to make deals, right? So you got the pharmaceutical drug companies that are trying to squeeze this in there, and then you got the oil companies trying to squeeze that, and the military is trying to squeeze this. And there's a lot of compromises that have to be made, and that's where things get dark. Yeah, because there's people that come in with these ideas that we're gonna fix this and clean that. Like, I've had long conversations with RFK, and that guy's in struggle all day. It's a battle all day. Yeah, it's dealing with all these pressures. And look, they've made a lot of headway. They've made a lot of headway with, with peptides. They made a lot of headway with eliminating some of these unnecessary food dyes and all these different things that we've been subject to. But they lost with glyphosate. Yeah, that was a big one, man. Glyphosate was a big one. It's poison. I've got a guy coming on who's an expert in it that's gonna talk about it soon, and it It is the people that are gaslighting you to say it's not an issue.

We don't really know how much of the health problems that a lot of people have who consume glyphosate-ridden products have. We don't know how much it's affecting you. What is it taking away from your immune system? What is it taking away from— how much is your body processing this fucking toxic herbicide that's in your system? Versus— I mean, how much of that is contributing to people's health problems? There's a lot of people that think that that's what a lot of this gluten allergy shit is, that people are just reacting to bromate and pesticides and herbicides.

But what's that stat with Iowa being the center for glyphosate, basically, with all the agriculture there? And then that's like the hotbed for cancer. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you don't have to look very far to see that connection.

No, you don't. No. Well, you know, that was also back in the day when people were— when people talk about the polio epidemic, you can't talk about the polio epidemic without also talking about spraying of DDT all over the fucking country, because DDT poisoning has the exact same reaction— the body has the exact same reaction as polio, as paralytic polio. Polio. Wow. Polio. Yeah, you know, the disease. Like, there's this woman who wrote a great book on it, Suzanne Humphreys is called Dissolving Illusions, and it's all about that and all about like, first of all, they were spraying it behind cars in streets where children were playing and people were getting polio.

I remember seeing kids like running through it. But it wasn't just people that were getting polio.

This is part of the problem with the narrative that it's polio. Animals were getting polio. Like, animals were getting polio, but they don't get polio. It doesn't spread to animals, but the horses and fucking cows were getting paralyzed. They were getting the same symptoms because it's fucking DDT poison. Yeah, yeah. Now here's the craziest one. What percentage of polio is asymptomatic? Meaning you get it and you have no symptoms. Hmm, I don't know. 95 to 99%. Really? Yeah.

So it's— people have it. This— it's DDT.

Yeah, yeah, DDT. That— I mean, look, it's not saying that some people that are very sick and immune compromised get polio and get fucked up and die. Of course polio is bad. Thousands of people die every year from the flu. Yeah, bad, right? Yeah. Okay, but you know what else is bad? DDT. Yeah, you know what else is going on when everybody was going through this whole polio epidemic? Fucking spraying DDT everywhere. And most people are ignorant to it. Yeah, and you bring it up, they call you a conspiracy theorist, but it's fucking fact.

Yeah, it's undeniable. Well, I was like, you know, the controlling the weather, I was like, that's conspiracy. But then I started seeing the planes like laying the fucking clouds out. Have you seen—

have you seen it? Yes and no. Okay, so I actually did a show on this. You did? Yes, I did it. Not an episode of the podcast, I did an episode of Joe Rogan Questions Everything. Now that show that I used to do back in the day, we did a whole episode on chemtrails. And one of the things we found— first of all, the reason why it looks like that, this is just a fact, the reason why it looks like that is there's condensation in the atmosphere. You have a hot jet engine, it's passing through this cool air, and the hot jet engine and the cool wet air creates clouds. Yeah, those clouds are real. It's artificial clouds, right? Also, they spray shit in the air. Yeah, two things are happening. Okay.

Yeah, because you see the normal planes, you see the normal jet stream, stream, you're like, okay, checks out. Then you see the other ones and it's a different jet stream.

Yeah, but it doesn't matter. The, the condensation in the atmosphere is inconsistent, but they're making— just like clouds are inconsistent.

But you can— we watched them the other day make laps.

Yeah, but it might not be the same plane. It might just be a route, right? You're not watching the entire plane go all the way down land and come back. No, no, right.

But you're watching consistent plane tracks.

Yeah, that's why it looks like that. But it's just days where there's a lot of condensation in the atmosphere, dude. I'm telling you, listen, those planes, if you look at a Southwest flight and look at it, they're not spraying, okay? But some planes spray shit. Yeah, and there are some weather modification experiments they do that are completely top secret. They don't let anybody know about it. They do cloud seeding, they cause floods, right? What happened with fucking Dubai? Right, we see that Dubai shit where Lamborghinis are floating down the highway. Yeah, that is people fucking with the environment.

That's what I thought was conspiracy before, which I don't now. No, it's real.

Well, Abu Dhabi does it every week. Abu Dhabi makes it rain every week with cloud seeding. And because they're rich, yeah, like, fuck it, make it rain. And so there's, there's real weather modification. Now that's there's cloud seeding, and then there's experimental shit, like some of the shit that like Bill Gates was talking about, like spraying reflective particles in the atmosphere to block out the sun. Like, hey, fuckface, yeah, who are you to make a decision for the whole world to cool the world? You didn't even graduate college. Shut the fuck up. This is crazy. And also the unintended consequences of any action that has never been taken before. Like cooling off the fucking planet. What if this dipshit starts the next ice age and everybody fucking dies?

Right, I know.

I mean, get the fuck out of the air. Leave us alone. Stop playing God. You don't know what you're doing. And also, do you have any money invested in any of these projects attached to this?

For sure. This, you know, we talk about all this stuff, you know. Oh, I didn't want to say this. So for public land, I want to say this part of my notes. Call your senators, say you want the roadless rule kept intact. Say we don't want to get rid of the 45 million acres that are going to be protected with the roadless rule. But to call your senators is 202-224-3121. Say you want the roadless rules kept intact. And we have to let our voices heard. Our voice was heard on this Not One Acre. We won that one. We have to do it again. You have to call your senators and say, and just voice your concerns. It's a slippery slope.

Yeah, you can't let them have any ground.

But like what I— here's what this thing was really pissed me off because, as I said, the administration at first I thought, okay, we got some, we got some good pipe hitters in there. It feels like they do what Trump says. If they don't, they're gone. They're like, like they're the scapegoat for whatever failed. They're out of there. Um, you can see the writing on the wall. Like, I don't— I was— I wanted Tulsi to get in there and kick ass because I knew how she felt about the war in Iran and, and like, that would, uh, how detrimental that would be. So I was like, I, I believed in her. And now with her husband getting sick and now she's out of there, but it feels like people are— it's like if you stand up for something You're gone. And now they got this Mark Wayne Mullen in there who just 2 days ago for this roadless rule, he unwinded 31 laws that were going to protect the public land, right? Just 31 laws. He just said, yeah, those aren't going to apply anymore because we need to— they awarded a $1.7 billion contract to build a wall in Texas at Big Bend National Park.

Park, $1.7 billion has been awarded and it wasn't even bid to build this wall in Big Bend National Park here. It's like, how? The public doesn't want that. We don't want a fucking wall for— they're saying for border protection. And if you look at like where the border crossings are, it's not in the middle of the fucking park.

So what do you think that wall is really for?

I don't know. Fuckin' up national— a national park, one of the most pristine places in Texas. I don't know what the goal is.

But— Have you read into it though? Is there any arguments pro and con that the walls—

Oh, I'm sure there is. I'm sure it's for border protection. I mean, maybe Jamie can look it up.

Yeah, let's see if there's— is there like a—

There was no public input on it again.

Right. That's a problem. And then the problem is, again, they can come up with reasons Yeah, why, you know, they have to make some new laws because, well, we got to protect people. Yeah, and that's how the slippery slope began.

It was a COVID, like, you know, safe and effective, protect your communities. It's like, yeah, do this for safety. Well, it's the same thing.

Trump administration will bypass environmental laws for border project in Big Bend National Park. So what does it say what the argument for it is? According to preliminary federal notice, latest regulatory waiver will apply to more than 100 miles of US-Mexico border. So it's a border wall. Yeah. From near the Closed Canyon Trail in Big Bend Ranch State Park through the entirety of Big Bend National Park into remote parts of southeastern Brewster County. In the notice, Homeland Security Mark Wayne Mullen wrote the administration is bypassing a wide range of laws to ensure the expeditious, expeditious construction of barriers and roads along the southern border. While U.S. Customs and Border Protection continues to insist it will not build a 30-foot-tall steel border wall in either the state or national park, the agency's current plans call for a mix of vehicle barriers, surveillance technology, and patrol road upgrades in the parks as a part of a project dubbed Big Bend 4.

So this is like not, not listening to the experts. Again, 6 former superintendents of Big Bend National Park penned a letter to Mullen urging him not to take such a step. So again, not not listening to the experts, just like the ballot box biology, just doing whatever the fuck they want. Doesn't matter what the public or the expert thinks, they're gonna do it. Award these bids to probably some construction outfit this guy's invested in for $1.7 billion with no bid. It's like, how is this okay?

Yeah, it's very— I don't understand it. Is there a lot of crossings in there? No, there's not.

That's the thing. They have where all the crossings happen. There's like this tiniest percentage in that park.

Cuz it seems like it's probably a very remote area of Mexico that it connects to as well, right? So it'd be very difficult to get through that way. And also, if you're gonna get through that way, like, good Lord, right? You're going into like tough country. Yeah.

And you know, that's, that's good elk country down there. I know people who hunt.

Uh-huh. West Texas. Good bulls. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like, I just, I don't know, it's a Yeah. So if you look at the millions of Americans who treasure Big Bend, you know, they don't want construction down there. And especially if we voted on it, fine. If there was a reason, fine. But it was never voted on. Yeah.

It says the horrific plans are an affront to the millions of Americans who treasure Big Bend. Laken Jordahl, an advocate with the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement, politicians who've never set foot here are signing a death warrant for this wild wild and beautiful place.

Yep. Yeah. And that's, you know, I've heard somebody, you know, pretty close with Trump tell me that he's never walked on dirt before.

Trump's never walked on dirt? He plays golf. Has to have walked on dirt. Grass, baby.

That's very man-made. Grass is sand.

He's never been in dirt.

So, not on his course. But the point is, it's like somebody who doesn't appreciate public land, they don't give a fuck about this.

No, they don't give a fuck and they don't, they're not gonna see it and they never would see it. But there is a border wall going up there too, though. There as well? Same spot. Same spot. Yeah. Look, they have to protect the border, but if there's not a lot of crossings there and all of a sudden you want to spend all this money to build a steel border, like, who's getting the contract?

Yeah. And just to award that with no bid, it's just not— that's not— I was a public buyer. That's not how it works. You're spending public money. You can't just spend public money without a bid, right? I mean, but they bypass all this shit that has the checks and balance in place to ensure that we're making good decisions with public money, and they bypass it all. And then you know who suffers here? It's the people who don't have— like, some people, they go to the park for mental health. They want to go camp. They want— it's like, they might not have two nickels to their name, but they're appreciating nature. That's why public land is so important, because that gives purpose to people like me who's less like, I got to get out this shithole city and go recharge, right? So for people who don't appreciate that or care about that, that's, that's wasted land. It's like, we could have a shopping mall, we could have investors doing this, we could have make this work. Because right now they, they would say that, well, not everybody can, can, uh, um, take advantage of this because you have to hike, you have to do these things.

So we want to make it more accessible so more people can enjoy No. Yeah, that's, that's not how it works.

You're gonna fuck it up. Yeah, you can't just have helicopter landing pads all over the fucking woods. There's, there's your—

yeah, there's your contract.

Spike in border wall spending goes mostly to two firms with GOP White House ties. Construction contracts, including $2.6 billion awarded this week, are being awarded to at a historic scale through a streamlined process that could put Trump on track to realize his vision for a border wall.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, see that streamlined process?

That was bypassing 31 laws. And so what's there now? Like, what is the border now between Mexico and the United States in that area? Is it just land? Like, you just walk right across?

It's probably the river. What is it?

What is the border? Can we find that out, Jamie? Does it say?

Okay, let's just look. Go up. Look at the map.

Okay, yeah, let's see what the map looks like. Okay, let's see. So that's where it is. So is that the river that blocks it? Well, the river blocks the whole bottom of the border, technically, right? There's certain parts of the river. I mean, it's not that hard to get across that river. That one? Well, I mean, people aren't going to go there to cross. That's crazy. Look how beautiful that is. It's amazing.

God, that's so beautiful. No, they're, they're not going there to cross.

Yeah, that's all mountainous. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to see actually. Where is the most border crossings? Actually, I mean, for a while it was like where they had that road where they were just letting people through.

Most border crossings are actually in Arizona. Really? Yeah, I'm almost positive. So I'm sure Jamie's gonna find it here.

I was— I'm asking it how many happened through Big Bend National Park.

Oh yeah, yeah, fucking one.

30. Gotta stop them. $84 billion.

Yeah, it's just like, I don't know, just stuff like this. So what happens is like you get distracted with the Israel, the bombing of the girls' school, the Epstein files, and then they do shit like this.

Okay, the only official border crossing inside Big Bend National Park is the Boquillas port of entry and sees on the order of about 10,000 legal crossings by visitors per year, plus a relatively small number of unauthorized crossings compared with other parts of the US-Mexico border. Mm-hmm. What exists in Big Bend? Big Bend National Park shares about 118 miles of border with Mexico along the Rio Grande. The only legal port of entry actually inside the park is Boquillas Crossing, small pedestrian-only crossing to the Boquillas del Carmen, Mexico, National Park Service information and travel videos describe Boquillas as handling roughly 10,000 visitor crossings per year.

Yeah, those, those are mostly all legal. So 734.

Border Patrol sector sees only a fraction of total southwest border crossings. One report cited 300— 734 people documented crossing in that sector by more than 27,000 along the entire US-Mexico border in a given period. And like, what year was that where it was 734? Was that before they shut down the border? What's really crazy, how many people came in the country. Oh, I know. The fact that over 4 years it's north of 10 million, and I've talked to people that think it's 20. Doesn't say.

Oh wow. And it just shows those out of the 27,000, but doesn't say they're illegal.

Illegal. So it's not a hotspot of crossing.

The last, the last slide there said it's just a smallest fraction is illegal of that 734. Those were like total crossings in that area. A smallest fraction was illegal. So it's no, it's not, it's BS, right?

It's BS. And they're just going to do it because they got a nice contract and they want a wall. Beautiful wall. Yeah. But why? Giant wall. —in the national park? No. The Washington Post reported last week the skyrocketing border wall contracts, now totaling more than $19.4 billion in the last 6 months, have mostly gone to Bernard and Fisher. That's prompted a lawsuit against the Trump administration from a would-be rival border wall builder who claims that the government doled out billions in contracts without genuine competitive opportunity.

Yeah, that's illegal. I mean, but that's what they're doing. Yeah, no bueno. No. And so, but, but as I was saying, they distract us with all this other stuff and push through shit like this. Like, who knows what a Senate— what the Senate or House is voting on on a fucking Tuesday? Well, it was this public land thing, you know, just added in in the middle of the night. We have no, no say on it. That we're distracted with all this fights at the UFC, with Israel doing whatever the fuck they're doing. And it's just like, oh, we just lost all this public land too. And it's like, it's impossible to keep up on. That's what's frustrating.

You know what's not frustrating? This bear meat.

It's pretty fucking good. Yeah, that's a man. That's legit. But what? Okay. So that's what can be done.

This bill hasn't passed, right?

No. Now it's going to go to the Senate. So it was in the House. This— and here's what— here's the problem. So this was originally— this roadless rule is bipartisan. Everybody agreed, let's protect this. Now with Mike Lee adding this language in there, now it's turned— now there's lines in the sand. 9, um, Republican senators voted with the Democrats on this to, to allow this, the roadless rule, to get to be in there. So now it goes to the full Senate. Now they're going to need whatever the, the percentage is, 60, I think 60% of a full Senate vote, um, for it to pass.

So we'll see. So now the scumbag lobbyists get involved. Yep. And they start pressuring people and help them out. You do this and I'll do that and help me here and I'll help you there.

When they get overwhelmed because of switchboards, if people call that 202 number like I said, then that makes it to everybody.

And what's that number again?

202-224-3421. Say you're— you want to keep the roadless rule intact, you don't want to sell off public lands, you don't want to— this is all BS. Um, but they, they do this and, um, yeah, the lobbyists get involved involved. And what happens is like what happened with the Big Beautiful bill is this part was in there and Trump wanted it in there, but it was causing such a friction. He was just like, I want my Big Beautiful bill passed. These guys are fucking it up with this public land stuff. Pull that out. Let's get this through. So they did. They pulled out this. We saved the public land. Who knows what we lost that was also attached. But anyway, we saved public land at that time. They were going to for affordable housing housing. Same thing has to happen here. He's got this language added into the shit they're already working on that changes— you know, we've had, we've had this in place for decades and, and it's worked, right? So we have to say no, we're not down with this, and they have to pull it out again.

Well, I hope we can get it through. We'll push it. You got it up on social media where people can— yeah, I will. Cameron Haynes.

Yeah, I will for sure. But, uh, it's like You know, it's— this is so important because it's so important to people without a voice. So it's like, I feel sometimes like, how did I get in this position? I know you do too. Like, where you're at the White House, you're just like, how the fuck could somebody like me earn this opportunity? Right? You've earned it through decades and decades of work, of being curious, of being fair, of being positive, of caring. And now people want to come on and share their thoughts with you. That gives you a platform. You've created the most powerful voice probably in the world at some times. And so you get invited to the White House. And I know, like, for me, I know they've used me there before. Like, yeah, I created value in myself. They invited me there for Veterans Day and I said, no, I'm not going because I don't fucking agree with this war in Iran. I don't agree with all this shit. I don't want to go and have a picture in the fucking White House. So people could be like, "See, see, you fucking, you're part of this." You know, 'cause we did.

We thought that Trump was the best option at the last election. I did. I 100% believed he was better.

The thing is, he might still have been the best option.

He might be, and that's fine.

We don't know what would've happened if the Kamala Harris administration had been a continuation of the Biden administration.

I don't want people coming in the border unchecked by the millions. I didn't want that. I didn't want, you know, this celebration of transgenderism. I have no problem with transgenders or cross-dressers or any— I have no problem— or gay or anything like that. I just don't want it promoted just crazily to our youth. That's it. I don't want youth getting surgery that their parents don't know about because they can't have a say in it now. I don't— I didn't want any of that. So of course I'm going to vote for Trump, right now I don't like any of this shit. So I have the— my right is to say no, I'm not down with this, right? And I'm not going to the fuck— I'm not going to be in your picture at the fucking White House so you can use it. And all the people who listen to me would be like, oh fuck, he was—

so they wanted you to go for Veterans Day? And what was the premise of having you there? I don't know. But, but you're not a veteran, so what was the promise?

It's only because I have a big platform.

So they're going to celebrate Veterans Day at the White House and they just said, let's get some famous people.

Probably. I mean, it's, it's, you know, remember the Epstein files where all the influencers had the binder? Well, it was Pam Bondi.

Yeah.

But, and there was a, but there's, there was a few other influencers, but they use, they, they, they can use people like us for their messaging. And then they invited me back again. After— now I've been pretty critical of this administration just because I care. And it's like, I don't have to agree with fucking lockstep with the person I voted for. That's our right as citizens to be like, I voted for that, but I don't agree with this, and I'm not happy about this. And I'm— and I want you to know, that's, that's our right as voters.

Would they invite you back again? This, this was back—

it was for a public land thing. And I'm like, yeah, I'm down for it, but I just know I had this, this kid on, Benji Backer, He's like, uh, has this, this page, this nonpartisan something for outdoors. But I did this show with him, and I— there was, uh, you know, bringing different people in to debate public land, or like to share why we care about public land coming from different places, but it's still all important to us. I did the show with him. Well, he went— I had him on the podcast. He talked about his— how he's working hard to protect public land. He went back and Trump signed an executive order, something about public land. And all it was was a pomp and circumstance photo op to get executive order. Nothing has happened to it. Nothing has happened with it. No action's been taken. It was like all it was was, uh, just they could make a press clipping out of it. Theater. A theater. And nothing's going to change. Nothing changes. Nothing's protected. So that's what I feel like a lot of these Sometimes if I get invited there, it's for that, is to make my base, if I have a base, I don't have, I'm not a politician, but to make my people like feel a little better about whatever's going on.

And I understand that's how it works. You want powerful people on your side, right? I'm not saying I'm powerful, but I have a pretty big following. I just, I just, I went back there because it was a huge honor. Like the few times that I've been back there and it's amazing and it's like being in the White house. Somebody like me should never be there, but I've created value in my name in some ways that I get that opportunity. But that opportunity comes with a price. So now I have to think about, am I true to what I believe in by showing support for this? And now it's too— there's too much for me that I'm not happy with that I can't ignore it personally. So that's— I feel like they use, they use opportunities like that for for, you know, for press.

Well, though, it seems like there's so many different people that want a piece of the pie. And if there's these giant contracts for border walls and giant contracts for this, it's just such an incentive to do things that people don't want. Or what about the military drones?

Those contracts when this war started, that's— you can look into who, who made money on that one. Who made money on Should we look it up, Jamie? Drone military contract. Let's see who made money.

I don't want to say, but you know, huh? Okay, well, I don't know, so I'm gonna be surprised. Yeah, so maybe, maybe not.

But like, when you follow the money, it makes a lot of sense. Of course, when you follow— it does. When you follow AIPAC, you're like, why is this politician always pushing this shit? Where do they get their money? Oh, I know this guy back home. He's running for like this local politician thing. His name's Adam him. He's like, he goes, I—

Don Jr.? What? What, Jamie? What did you find? Wait a minute. What did you— are you— this has got to be a mistake. Eric and Don Jr. invest in military drone company amid Iran war. Is it, Jamie?

Where'd you find this?

That seems like propaganda from Iran or something.

Is that a cartoon? Iran's cartoon? Propaganda again. No, but so anyway, you start— I was talking about this local guy back home, and he said that, he goes, I need to call Israel. He goes, it is so hard to get money for like to run as a— in whatever, just a local election. But you go to a business, they say, yeah, here, I got $18 I can contribute, right? Where— so you see these big politicians, you see how much money they're getting. It's like, wait, what's this What is this AIPAC thing? Why do they get millions? Oh, then you start wondering how they're voting on things. You're like, this is making a lot more sense. It's like, where's the money coming from?

Yeah, they have to take all that out of politics. Oh my God. I don't know how you could at this point, but when you can influence politicians and influence who gets promoted to be voted for, who gets put out into the public eye in a great light, in a positive light, and then you realize that there's just all this money from corporations to get this person in, or from other foreign countries to get this person in, or from lobbyists to get this person in, and you're like, wait, that— why? That's not serving us.

No, it's like, what happened?

And how do you stop that? When did— okay, here's a big question. When did money officially become a problem in politics? I know that's a very broad question, but put that in perplexity and see what it says. The Citizens United thing was a big deal, but I think it was 2012. What thing is that?

Citizens United.

Citizens United. Yeah. That was 2012. I think so. That changed it a lot, but it was always a problem before that. I mean, there was always been, like, when did corporations become a real problem? Like, when did AIPAC become a problem? Like, when did, when did AIPAC form, and when do they start donating to American politicians? Yeah, it's, uh, first of all, I don't think any foreign government, anyone connected to foreign government, should have any influence whatsoever on American politics.

I've heard our politicians say their loyalty is to Israel. That is crazy.

I've heard people say that too. 2022. 2022. They not direct— directly start donating to US political candidates until 2022. Fucking Jesus. So I—

if I— if I don't— I mean, if I remember correctly, Trump didn't take any money from Israel his first election, and now he just gave an award to somebody. You can see who he just gave an award to.

We give it an award? What kind? One of them big ones? One of them nice ones they put them around your neck and you stand there in the Oval Office?

Yep. Who contributed to it? He just won the Olympics. Who contributed $250 million to his last election. Section.

Oh, so do you want an award? That's how much you gotta pay for an award? I don't, I don't really want an award. I wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

So to me, that— so you said like, if 2022, I would imagine AIPAC was around, I would have thought— I didn't know that actually. But when I look at like, if you look at, um, Thomas Massie, he got in the crosshairs of the president for whatever reason, right? He got— they had a candidate they wanted him to lose to, and he did, he did lose.

Yeah, so here's the thing. We'll get to that in a second. Here's the thing: Citizens United decision is widely seen as having created serious problems in US politics by vastly increasing the role of big money and reducing transparency. And so this was what year, James? Me? It was 2012. Oh, okay. 2011, 2010, 2010. So 2010 Supreme Court decision further tilted— yeah, tilted political influence towards wealthy donors and corporations. That's when we got fucked. Yeah, I think that's when it started treating corporations like a person and gave them rights in some way. That was Obama.

See that second bullet point? Supercharged PACs, which can take unlimited contributions from wealthy donors to spend unlimited amounts and And so that's how they control the elections right there.

And that was the Obama administration.

Dark money.

Dark money from groups that don't fully disclose donors have exploded. Voters often cannot see who's really funding major political campaigns. So we need to just fucking tune the Wayback Machine to 2009. But even then, like, 2009 is after they bailed out the fucking banks. Yeah. 15 years later, Citizens United defined the 2024 election. Yeah. There it is. Yeah, fucked. It's a slippery slope.

Yeah, that's so— I don't— that's like Ruth Ginsburg right there called it the worst ruling of her time on the court.

Whoa. Overwhelming majorities of Americans have consistently expressed disapproval of the ruling, with at least 22 states and hundreds of cities voting to support a constitutional amendment to overturn it. Citizens United reshaped political campaigns in profound ways, giving corporations and billionaire-funded super PACs— a central role in U.S. elections and making untraceable dark money a major force in politics. And yet it may only be now, in the aftermath of the 2024 election, we could begin to understand the full impact of the decision.

And it's perfect too, because Citizens United— so this is like the language they use to dupe us, like, oh, Citizens United, we're together, this is good, right?

Just like the Patriot Act.

Yeah. Or like in Oregon, the hunting thing, it's called the Peace Act.

Oh yeah, tell— talk about that because that one's bonkers.

Yeah, so this is nuts. So this is same thing, it's just— it's follow the money. If you want to know why we're so fucked up, follow the money. So the IP-28, this is a crazy thing. They want to— here's, here's where I just explain Oregon real quick. Oregon is like a petri dish for these crazy ideas. For these political ideas. Like if you think of legalizing recreational drug use, you know, we did that in Oregon, like heroin, meth, you can have that. It's fine. It's whatever.

I think they turned that back.

Right. But they tried it to see how it would work in Oregon. Yeah, it didn't work out so well. Right. Now, this is another crazy one, but they try it in Oregon because it's very— we've got a huge liberal population in Portland and Eugene and some me in Salem. But, uh, not just liberals, retards. Yeah, they're, they're more than just— because I'm friends with liberals for sure. Yeah, they're gone.

They're, they're at the far end of the political spectrum on the left for sure. They're full-on communists. Yeah, socialists. No meat. Everyone should be a vegan. They want everybody to get bitten by that tick.

Yeah, I mean, so much.

We should talk about that too. We'll get to that in a minute. But, um, so the law, the, the new thing, the bill they're trying to ass. pass IP 20 and ban. First of all, was it— was it the— who was it? The governor of Washington? Which— which governor was it? Oregon or Washington that tried to make it so that you have to have a fucking license to paddleboard?

Oh, probably Washington.

I would say, can you fucking imagine telling someone that they have to have a license to paddle a fucking canoe? Yeah. Yeah, well— You have to pay the state money to have a license to paddle a fucking canoe.

They also made it like during COVID like some guy was out fishing by himself in the lake. I think he got a ticket.

A guy got arrested when he was surfing by himself in California. Right, so— How are you gonna get sick out there in the middle of the ocean surfing? It's just silly.

But this IP-28, they bill it as, you know, on their— So they'll do this thing, like go out to get these votes. They needed 117,000 votes to get this on the ballot. Ballot. So to, to get 117,000 people to sign your petition, um, basically all it said was stop animal cruelty. All you have to do is go to Portland and visit one homeless shelter to say, hey, do you want to stop animal cruelty? Right? Okay. Yeah, I love animals. I love animals too. Oh, we sign this. So they didn't tell you that it's making, you know, you can't fish, you can't hunt, you can't raise animals animals like backyard chickens.

You can't raise backyard chickens.

Ranchers, just like even ranchers sell beef, you can't do it. They're making it like even the breeding of animals, like we breed cows, we breed horses, um, there's stud fees, there's different things. It makes better race, like, like, uh, racehorses, but there's also better product for, for beef, right? So we control like when, uh, when a cow goes into heat, when it gets bred, things like that, that's part of like being a rancher. Well, they want to make that like— because a cow didn't agree to it, it's like rape, it's like sexual assault. Like, you can't control when animals breed, so that takes away ranching. There is no ranching, right? So they want to make it to where they're not going to make eating meat illegal, but if people can't raise it, you're buying it from some other state at a higher price to get it.

You're eliminating ranches in Oregon.

Yeah. So it's killing a whole crazy. And they could say that, like, even if you hurt an animal, I don't know what, like, you could get charged with assault. So this is— they want every animal treated like your family pet or dog. Oh, and the—

but the thing is, chicken for food, you go to jail.

Yeah, yeah. I was wondering, like, if you know how you're driving a car and like sometimes a bird flies in front of you, right?

You're gonna get arrested for that? Yeah, that that. But you're responsible for your vehicle, you killed that squirrel.

So this guy who introduced this, this is the third attempt at doing this. He knows he's not going to get the vote because how it'll work to get on the ballot, they take 6% of the votes cast in the last governor election. So 6% of the last votes casted. So it's a small number, but it's 117,000. They can get that many by just saying stop animal cruelty. Now it goes to the ballot. But he knows this is his third time. He knows this isn't going to pass, but it's like it just tells them what they need to work on, what language they need to change. It's all part of this long-term process to get hunting and fishing stopped, right? Because I think, like, in general, the government, they like consumers. They don't like people being too, uh, self-sufficient. They like them relying on that. This is another step. Like, if we can get rid of ranchers, hunting and fishing, don't need the guns, don't need to be killing stuff, then you're just like, we'll provide the meat for you. Bill Gates owns all this land. You talked about Bill Gates before and him making decisions on shit he doesn't know anything about.

He dropped out of college. But did you say he dropped out of college? Or— yeah. So it's a— it's— they want to be able to control who's, who's providing the food, who's making the money, what type of food it is. You know, it's like it goes back to the whole W.E.C. thing. It's like you will own nothing and be happy. It's like that's— they want these smart cities working towards that, to where, no, you don't need to be a badass hunter anymore.

We got it right. And they use these nutty progressive people as just useful idiots to push things through.

That's all it is.

Yeah. And then you get a bunch of people that are pushing money, PACs that are pushing money towards these people to fund them to push these wacky ideas. Right. Why would they do that? Well, that's why they do that. They do that because they want you dependent on them. Right.

And this is part of this process where it doesn't happen overnight. And this thing won't, won't make it into law for sure, but they'll see where they're at. This will be like, okay, here's where we're at. Here's what we need to change on our messaging. Here's where the biggest pushback was. And they adjust where Can we do that on the other side? It's like, I know there's, there's farming or ranching organizations, but like, it's, it's money. It's like, who's giving these people the money? It's usually coming from out of state, and they have more money and they're more organized than people who are working. Because when you're a rancher, you're fucking working all the time. You don't— you can't go get signatures and shit. Yeah, you got work to do. Yeah, these fucking I mean, these environmental people that are just crazy, like, extremists, they get paid for doing this. So it's like, that's how— that's their job. You know, a rancher has a— he has a job, and it's very hard. He doesn't have time to go out and knock on doors.

That's the really fucked up part, is a lot of these people that are these protesters, these organizers, that is their job. Mm-hmm. And that's hard for people to really understand. And until you listen to people like Mike Benz where he breaks down how NGOs work and how they fund things. And the fact that like most of these things are a fucking scam. Most nonprofits are a fucking scam. Definitely. And it's hard for people to wrap their head around that because you think of nonprofit, look, oh, my son works for a nonprofit. Oh, he must be a good guy. Yeah, he's like trying to help. He's— and maybe he is a good guy. Maybe he starts out a good guy, but then you're corrupted by this system that you realize like, oh no, No, the nonprofit is essentially about supporting the nonprofit. Yeah. And most of the money goes to the supporting of this organization, the overhead, the structure, all the infrastructure, all the people working there. They all get paid very well. Yeah. And then a little piece goes to whatever the fuck it is.

The people starting the nonprofit will be like, okay, first I'm gonna need this much money. Exactly. Oh, you wanna be my VP? I can count on you? You, I'm— you're gonna make this much money. So that's what happens. And then whatever's left is like, that's their, you know, that they can't write off. That's what they contribute.

Yeah. Um, what did I see this— oh, this is another one that I saw about nonprofit hospitals. Do you know that nonprofit hospitals are the most profitable? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

They can just hide that money. They charge crazy amounts. How crazy is that?

Like, nonprofit are the most profitable. Yeah, so this whole idea is— it's all just bullshit. This— most of what you think of as like philanthropy is really like the Bill Gates stuff. Yeah, there's a great book called— fuck, what is the name of the book? I read this book, Control-O-Garchs, and it's all about how a lot of these guys, they realize that they were having public image problems, like particularly Bill Gates Gates, like during the, uh, antitrust lawsuits with Microsoft. Yeah. Then he pivots to this Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation where it's all about philanthropy, but they're philanthrocapitalists. All the different philanthropy ventures are extremely profitable. Like, he made $500 million allegedly off the COVID vaccine, off of his investments in this vaccine that didn't even fucking work well.

Yeah, I think Trump got paid paid with that too. But it's like, yes, you know, the money thing— I don't know, the citizens, the regular citizens are the ones that pay the price for this.

Yeah, it's, it's dark. And so here it is, put your headset on real quick. Listen, this guy talked about— Congressman recently described some nonprofit hospitals as hedge funds with hospital beds. Mm-hmm.

Person say that nonprofit hospitals were like hedge funds with hospital beds, and I I was like, I bet they are. What's going on here? Because in the United States, more than half of our hospitals are nonprofits, but hospital world doesn't feel very nonprofit-y. And then I read this article by Scott Hodge in the Washington Post that talked about how they need to be taxed. And it turns out that the total revenues of nonprofit hospitals in America in 2023, so 3 years ago, was $1.3 trillion. And it turns out that they're getting a bunch of taxpayer money. In fact, 3 years ago, so this is probably a lot more now, nonprofit hospitals were making $45 billion worth of profit. And as I mentioned, we taxpayers give them a bunch of money. In fact, in 2021, we gave them $38 billion, $11.5 billion of it because they don't have to pay any taxes. And that was 5 years ago, so this is probably more like $60 billion now. And the reason that we hypothetically give them this money as taxpayers is because they're supposed to do charity. But there was a study that looked at almost 1,500 nonprofit hospitals hospitals and found that 86% of them provided little or no charity.

And that's because almost everybody that goes to hospitals has insurance— is either private health insurance or insurance from the government. Only 3% of people don't have health insurance, and it's not like the hospitals give them a deal. Turns out that the government was checking this out around 2009. The hospitals spun up a lobbying campaign and got any requirements that would basically define what kind of charity they would have to do squashed. Washed. So now it's kind of the honor system. So I was like, where are those billions of dollars going that the nonprofit hospitals make in profits? Turns out it goes to executives like these CEOs who are getting paid about $4.5 million a year. Meanwhile, their nurses make about $70K. $4.5 million a year here. Apparently management consultants getting billions of dollars from nonprofit hospitals. And here's a guy, Robert, at a hospital in New York who paid himself $15.3 million a year. Nonprofit hospital. And there are really good nonprofit hospitals that are primarily funded by donations and serve low-income families and people in need, like St. Jude or like the Shriners. But it looks like about 86% of these nonprofit hospitals get $50 or $60 billion from U.S. taxpayers like you and me because they're supposed to do some form of charity, but they paid off the government so they don't have to really do charity.

And some of their CEOs are making $15.3 million a year while we subsidize them with like $50 billion Do you think this is right? I saw this comment.

Okay, so this is P. Davis Jones on Instagram. Motherfuckers. Yeah, so it's like, it's again, it's just like the UFO thing. Yep. It's— there's distractions. There's so much to pay attention to. There's so much fucking fraud and there's so much cap. This is what Elon told me when he started looking into the Doge stuff. He's like, it's impossible to describe the amount of fraud. Yeah, he's like, it's insane. That's what Nick Shirley found in Minnesota when he went to investigate the daycares, and also found in California with hospice care centers. There's entire motels where every room was supposed to be an office for some fucking nonprofit, and they're all just siphoning money. So it's madness.

So that's like, that's what it makes money— regular people like me, like, what's the answer? It's like, what's the point to all this? Aliens? Meanwhile, I'm I'm paying out my ass in taxes for shit like this. Yeah. And— or for war.

It's like, yeah, all of it's gross. Yeah, every single— yeah. I mean, what we're gonna have to have is some sort of like radical transparency where all this stuff gets exposed and gets exposed like probably with some AI program. And no one's gonna want to turn that on, right? They're never gonna want everyone to know exactly how much fraud and how much fucking terrible management they've done with our money. Oh, like the Pentagon's never passed an audit once. No, not one. No, zero. And you look at— you don't pass an audit, you're going to jail for sure.

Yeah, you look at— yeah, how much we're in debt, all the shenanigans they do with the public money.

It's just like— that's overexaggerated. We're only in debt $39 trillion. That's not a big deal. Isn't that crazy? You know, the thing is, they could just print $39 trillion and it's done. Yeah, just pay it off. The reason why they don't is because they have really good control. God, you're doing a great job.

It's, uh, one thing on this hunting thing, I, I do have to give credit to Dan Gates and Howell. It's like they've done a good job in Colorado, like fighting this. This has like been, um, we've won a few things there.

Um, have they tried the same thing with Oregon and Colorado, the same kind of thing? Well, no.

What Dan is doing, he's, um, he's got out there Initiative 302, and it's going to make hunting and fishing hunting and fishing in Colorado a constitutional right. Okay. So hopefully that, you know how these, just like this lobbyist and this IP 28, they're seeing what works and what they can get away with and kind of planning for the future. Well, if Dan is successful with this Initiative 302 passing, that will be like how we can address this in the future to protect hunting and fishing. 'Cause if it can go through there, this is like the litmus test for it, then okay, maybe we can do this in other states also. So this is a big one coming up they're working on right now. But I mean, we have to— we just have to get more savvy politically to— when they're doing shit like this, we have to be more in tune, you know, and educated on it.

It's such a bummer though, because like the people that I know, like Mike Benz, that do this all day, I do not envy. Terrible. I mean, Mike Benz makes these livestreams where he's just exposing, and they last for hours. Yeah, who's gonna go through them all? Well, and he's exposing all these different companies.

Be nice, be positive.

We didn't do any of that.

How do you talk about this? It's hard. In a nice and positive way.

It's very, very, very difficult.

Very, especially because these are real problems. Last on my list. Well, I don't know what's up on the list, but oh, I do want to talk about this Pokémon. I want to shout out Ryan Callahan from Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. You know, oh, Cal.

Sure, sure. Great guy. Great guy.

Guy bust his ass for this shit. Martin Heinrich, which is— he's a senator there in New Mexico. He's— I think he's a Democrat. I don't give a shit about Democrat, Republican, whoever. He just fights for public lands and he's a badass. And then also Ron Wyden there in Oregon, who normally I'd probably never agree with anything on because, you know, it's just different. But he is— he does get— I want to— I want to give those guys credit for trying their best to protect and fight against this public sell-off, and Mike Lee and this Energy Resource Committee, which is, you know, they're beholden to a different set of values. Usually it's money-related, and these guys are kind of fighting for the guys like us who just enjoy being out in the mountains.

See, there you're being positive.

Yeah, I just wanted to tell those guys are doing great. But I was gonna bring this up. This is like the whole scandal I've been involved with recently, which is— feels like a lot for me, which I don't like. But I—

my point on it is I feel like, um, well, let's explain the scandal before you get into that. So you won the Oregon Marathon in your, uh, age category. Yeah. And then someone started complaining because you had taken BPC-157 157, which is a banned substance. Yeah, you would take— for people that don't know, as ridiculous as this sounds, Cam broke his foot like 2 years ago. You broke your foot like 2 years ago and you never got it fixed. So all these miles you've been running, you've been running with a broken foot, and you went to Waste to Well. They treated your foot with stem cells and they injected BPC-157 into your foot. To help your foot heal. Is it healed now? Is the bone fused up? Yeah. What did it do? It just grew back? Yeah, finally.

It took a while 'cause I didn't stop running. What does it look like now on an X-ray? It's like kind of the bone is, it was a big break, like a pretty wide break, which is why the surgeon didn't know if it was gonna be able to, the bone was gonna be able to make it across there 'cause I kept like moving it. And he told me, he's like, like, you know, with this— this is— I just had the same surgery done on my thumb where the, the ligament pulls a piece of the bone off and breaks it, right? So that your ligaments and tendons, very strong. The bone fractures. So what happened here is I fell and I was doing a race and, and basically shredded my ligament, broke this bone. So they had to hope that the bone was big enough to go attach it back to where it broke because bone-on-bone healing is much better than ligament-to-bone. It's like quicker, right? So we need a piece of that bone. Well, in my foot, they said he didn't know how big that piece that broke off was, so there's a chance that it wouldn't reattach through surgery.

So, which means he'd have to take the ligament back to it. It's called a Jones fracture. It's on the outside of my foot. And, um, hope it, it connected. But that would be like stretching that ligament beyond where it's supposed to by design.

So it probably changed the function of your foot.

It would change the dynamic of my foot and how my foot— And I run, I have a good stride, I run well. And he said, "There's no guarantee that this will attach like it should, or that, you know, you'd need another surgery if this doesn't work, and then another one to get the hardware out." So I'm just like, "I really don't want to do 2 or 3 surgeries. Let's see if we can try other treatments." less invasive. If I can just deal with this pain for long enough, would my foot heal? And it has. So I was like very interested in not getting the surgery based on, you know, he's a renowned surgeon. He does all the surgeries on the Oregon football team. He's a stud, trust, totally trust him. But I heard what he was saying about like, hey, there's no guarantee this is gonna work perfect. And I took that to heart.

So when did you have the injury? How long ago was it?

It was June 7th. 16th of 2024. Okay.

Yeah, quite a long time ago, right? So basically a solid 2 years. Yeah.

So I went in and I dealt with it for— I mean, it hurt for a long time. I just didn't want to stop living, you know? And I'm like, okay, if it's just pain, I have a very high pain tolerance. I don't care. I'm, I'm going to block that out and just do what I do. So I did. I did, I did everything. I did all my hunts, I did races, and it was terrible. And And but I made it, I made it through and my foot's healed. But so broke it in June, went into Ways to Well, I think in July, went back in November, which is when I got that stem cell back in it. And when they put in the BPC there, that one time in November. And so that was like, that was the thing. And all I said, you know, I had a very fast Eugene marathon time for me. I'm healthier than now that I've ever been. I've retired. I've done more specific training. All these people, you know, I've been labeled as like a doper, right? Like almost like Lance Armstrong.

Well, you've been labeled by one very specific person that is a professional runner who's also a vegan and has been very vocal about you in an anti-hunting way. So he's got that. And, and you're also— your time, your running time, he's Is he 18 years younger than you? Yes. And your running time is very similar to his, his last marathon. Yeah. And your running time of this year's marathon, which you won in your age class, is quicker than last year's by quite a bit. Yeah. What people don't understand is last year your fucking foot was broken.

I didn't run last year because I was hurt. So it was quicker than like the year before.

Right. Was your foot broken then? No. No. Okay. So your time is quicker now than it's ever been before after recovering from your broken foot. Yeah. And that's amazing. It's— but how much quicker?

10 minutes? It was— my best time was in— my very best time was in 2006. Me and Lance Armstrong, we did the New York Marathon. I didn't even see him during this one, but I ran 2:50:21 in New York. I ran 2:50 quite a few times, like Boston, when I ran with Lance in 2007. 2008, I did run 2:50 again, and that's when we finished together. Um, and you know, Truett and I were talking about this too just the other day because Truett, my son, he's going for the Olympic trials qualifier in the marathon, which means he needs to run quicker than a 2:16. So we were talking about this, and, and it's just my training and even his training, because I'm not a coach and I don't know, I just run to get in shape for hunting, okay? I don't— I'm not a pro, um, but— and I had him run, and he's very talented, but I didn't know how to coach him either. So he hired a real coach. And when you start getting into this marathon training and specifics of it and why you do certain, certain exercises and why there's certain stimulus from— I mean, I just had the winner of the Eugene Marathon on my podcast, and we did a really fast run.

We ran a 5:06 mile, which I had never done. Mile 7 of an 8-mile run. And then he said, okay, I'm— his name's Jack Sadel. He's like an amazing athlete, has 1,400 followers, which is kind of crazy that this amazing talented people have a small amount of following, but their talent is incredible. So he won it. I ran with him just the other day and he said, oh, I need to do 8 100-meter strides, which is simple, essentially sprinting after we ran super hard 8 miles, climbed 3,000— a 3,000 or 2,000-foot mountain, and, uh, did this fast pace. But he still had to get the stimulus needed for what he's asking his body to do, which is qualify for the Olympics, right? So the stimulus is what I've never done before. I've never got on the track and did it. All I ever did was just go run. I just run. It's what I do. It's like, how do I move this needle in the right direction in a positive I got to put in work. How I'd put in work was I'd go run mile after mile after mile, some days 20 miles a day, because I felt like that was a noble sacrifice for me and for achieving what goals I wanted, which was bow hunting related, not, not racing related.

Well, with Truett taking on this Olympic trials qualifier journey, he's, he's been doing the stimulus, hired a coach, and like, hey Dad, you need to do this type of stuff, you know, you get on the track track. You wouldn't think you need to get on track to run 26 miles quick, but you do because you need the stimulus for your body. I had never done any of that. I had never got enough sleep. I would sleep, you know, if I was gonna do a marathon a day and still be at work 10 hours a day, I'd have to get up at start at 2:45 AM. And I did. And sometimes I wouldn't go to bed until midnight. I didn't care about sleep. You'd have Dr. Matthew Walker on here. I'd say, fuck that dork, I'm not listening to sleep. It's like, I don't need sleep. I can still perform. Look at, I just run 26 miles yesterday on 2 hours of sleep. But I wasn't performing at my best because my— I had to overcome my body fatigue. So for decades, I would work, didn't miss a day of work in 26 years, never called in sick once.

Always get my miles in, always get my work done. I was leading the crews. People relied on me to be a good leader. I had to be there. I'd still put in this work. I would not get any sleep. My body was so depleted I still did everything I needed to do at the highest level I could. Turns out the highest level I could, given those circumstances, was a 2:50 marathon, all right? So I retired 3 years ago. Now I'm getting sleep. Now I'm doing sauna, cold plunge. I get, you know, I spend, let's see, spend $2,000 a month on massage and bodywork. And now with more specific training, like last year I ran with Truett. He ran 2:38 in Boston, 2:34 in Eugene. We went on a run right before that. He said, Dad, I can't keep up with you. You should be going for the sub-2:30. He was trying to break 2:30. He goes, you should be going for the sub-2:30. You're faster than me. So this was last year, but then I got hurt. So last year I was going to break this same record. This year I've been healthy. I knew I was going to get my fastest time ever.

I put up a, a post and I said, PR or ER, I'm either getting a personal record or I'm going to the emergency room. I'm sending it. So I said PR, ER, and I got a PR. I got 2:39:11, one of the fastest ever for a 58-year-old. And it's like that caused people to pay attention, which it. It's a very fast marathon for somebody almost 60 years old. But you have to look at the full picture and say, like, this wasn't some just guy who just started running. Been running— I've been running since I'm 5 years old. I'm 58. I was running, pushing myself at 5, running further than any other kid in school, winning awards. That was 53 years ago. Okay, I've been doing this a while. I haven't been training specifically because I didn't care. And so this guy said, oh, have you— you know, he's like mad that I was so fast. He's talked shit about Truid. I don't— and I'm trying to be nice and positive, so I'm not gonna say his name. I'm not gonna— I understand people who want to protect clean sport. I applaud USADA. I applaud WADA.

I applaud clean sports. I love it. It's required for the Olympic athletes. Athletes to get their just due. Um, for me, he, he said, you know, he's talked shit about Truett, which he's already on my radar because I remember Truett said, hey, there's this elite guy who's saying that I'm dishonoring the marathon because I have no chance of getting the standard. And, you know, I said, who?

And he said, why is that dishonoring the marathon?

Because he was saying like Truett was so far away from his time that it was unrealistic to even put that goal. My, my point was, he's a runner just like you. He has a big dream just like you had. Why shit on his dream? Somebody says that, that this dream, they want to do it.

You're running. How would it be dishonorable to have a lofty ambition? That doesn't even make sense. It— that was just words.

It— the words are associated because he's my son, so that's all that amounted to. Um, but I— he was on my radar for that because Truett told me, and I said, who? And I hadn't— didn't even really know who it was. Looked him up. I'm just like, yeah, fuck, whatever. So anyway, I knew the name. Well, he comes on my page after this and he says something like he dug up this old post from like 2011, which is still up there, and it talked about the shit I was taking from— it was like Complete Nutrition, which is like GNC. And it was, you know, if you go to GNC, like, you you know, Mass Gainer 2000. So like everything seems like it's a steroid. It's over-the-counter, it's not fucking steroids. You can't buy steroids over the counter. Everything that on that thing that I was doing, I was sponsored by Complete Nutrition, all over-the-counter supplements. It's like there's no fucking EPO on here. It's like what these people try to make it sound like. It was just shit that I was lifting weights. This is from 15 years ago, 2011. It's a, it's a blog post.

He still has it. Yeah, it's like, like I said, parading around like a trophy. It's like, fucking, it's over-the-counter, whatever. So he said, I said, are you still talking about that? This is like late at night. I was kind of irritated. Didn't, guy irritates me anyway. So he said, could you pass a USADA drug test? And I said, I have no idea. It has nothing to do with me. I don't give a fuck. Probably not though, because I didn't actually, I didn't even know, that I know is very restrictive. And I've had a lot of Olympians and things on my show. We don't talk about the drug test stuff. We're just like, we just go running.

Well, what, what stuff would you take, had you taken, that wouldn't allow you to pass a drug test? Um, the stuff you're taking now, like what supplements can you not take? Because there's a lot of stuff that people just take normally that you can't take. Well, peptides are one of them, right?

I— certain peptides, certain— I think you can take certain ones. But I don't even know, because I just— I had never looked at the list. I tried to with this when this came up.

Well, there's the other thing is a lot of people fail just by taking supplements because there's third-party— there's contamination. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's what happened to Sugar Sean O'Malley. Yeah, Osterine.

It's happened to, you know, a lot of athletes with this. Most of stuff that you would buy, like a GNC probably an Olympian couldn't take, or they'd have to check it out. A lot of stuff couldn't. 'Cause it's like, how clean is the lab? How susceptible is it to contamination? So a lot of them, they're thinking about this shit every day. It's their whole life. If they pop hot, their career's over. So it's a huge deal.

I have Jordan Burroughs in here, and he wouldn't even try a Kill Cliff CBD drink. Right. He's like, I don't think I could take this.

Well, I had Cheeto on my show and I said, hey, you want to try a ketone? He's like, I don't, I don't know. So he called Jeff Novinsky and he said, could I take this Ketone IQ? And Jeff said, well, depends on what batch is approved. So the batch of the Ketone IQ that was made has to be approved. The other batch might not be approved. So you could fail from that other batch. I didn't know any of that shit, but he called them right, right before we did it, so he didn't take it. It's just like, so there's things like that where it's just, it's nonstop. I don't know if I can take this, this, that. I've never been in that position because I'm— I just run to bow hunt. I've never looked at these lists. I've never done anything. But a lot of stuff that, you know, Sudafed is on there, ADHD medicine is on there. You can't take, or you have to get what they call a therapeutic use exemption. So So say if you were a regular guy and you had low testosterone and you wanted to do TRT, you could get that approved through a therapeutic use exemption.

That's very interesting. Through doctor. You can run in the marathon with a therapeutic use exemption of testosterone, which is a legitimate performance enhancing supplement.

Yeah, theoretically. I don't know if, they'd have to look at your numbers and where you're at and like if this was real.

Well, you're supposed to take a very specific amount. Like this was the issue the UFC when the UFC had TUEs. Yeah, they had TRT, Vitor, those, those days when guys were taking like large amounts, right? That shit. And that's actually what stopped the program, is that people started testing like off the fucking charts. Yeah, testosterone, right? And they realized, okay, these guys are straight-up juicing. Yeah, for sure. So, but if you're a 60-year-old person and you want to run the marathon and you're on testosterone, it's legal. Yeah, yeah, it—

and it should be. It's like The TUE thing is still probably abused in some ways because we know these doctor-patient relationships. You can say, "Hey, I want to do this. Can you make it sound like this?" Right, of course. That's always gonna be the case. I'm not even— all I'm saying is like for— and I talked to Olympians about this situation because I want to make sure I understand it, right? It's like, if I'm as a regular citizen, so there's 9,000 runners in the Eugene Marathon. Ugine Marathon. Are we all gonna be held to the standard of Olympic athletes? That's right.

Are they testing everybody in the Ugine Marathon? They didn't test anybody.

Anybody. So there's prize money that's paid out. There's Olympic trials qualifying standards, which are met. So now you're in the Olympic trials. And I don't want to shit on the Ugine Marathon because these smaller marathons marathons, they don't have the money to be testing 9,000 people. Of course. Or probably— these tests are expensive. So, there's something to, like, if it's a USATF, so United States of America Track and Field Association, if it's one of those events and it's for, like, a world championship or it's for, like, a team position, I get it. And it does need to be. For the Eugene Marathon with 9,000 people,— it's not realistic to say we're going to drug test everybody, or if you're taking whatever, you need a therapeutic use exemption. Because do you think USADA could review, say, if people are taking 3 or 4 different medications times 9,000? They don't have the resource to, to go through all those TUEs, right? It's not realistic. So there should be, in my opinion, 2 categories. You got your regular runners, which I'm in, in, and you got your elites which are susceptible to this drug testing and these requirements.

And that's totally fair, and I get that. And it's kind of why I've waded into this and said, I'll be the poster boy for this. I'll admit that I took BPC-157 to try to avoid surgery on my foot, and 2 years ago, and whatever the fallout— right, whatever the fallout is, is what it is, because this needs to be discussed. Because I talk to all these regular people who are doing all this stuff just to be healthy, to enjoy something that they love, which is running or competing in races. And everybody, like, on the other side, on, you know, say, the clean sport side, which I am on that side too, trust me, I, I want to— I want clean sport. But they're like saying that, like, my time was so fast, it's almost into this— they talk about this age-graded thing where, like, this guy who brought it up said age graded, like, so what that, I think is what that looks at is like in my prime, if I ran a 2:39 at age 58, what was my potential when I was in my prime, right? And it would, it's super fast, like, you know, like world, like 2:10 or 2:12, which would have won the Olympics back when I was 25, you know what I mean?

So I understand why my time is just like, I'm almost too fast as a regular citizen to— and it's kind of like this gray area, like, should he be tested or whatever? But all I'm saying, like, if the rule is to test, or if I know the rules, I'm down, dude. I'm, I'm all for it. That's why I've been so transparent about what I've taken, what I've done, and what I was trying to avoid with the surgery. But it's also— I'm not hiding anything.

There's an important point about the sign-up thing for the Eugene Marathon. If there's— if you're supposed to not take certain supplements, that's supposed to be stated in, in the marathon sign-up, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's not. Yeah.

And I, and I don't— I've never— I hardly look at that. But there's— now after all this, I looked at the waivers because, you know, USADA has been— they sent me two really nice emails, just lovely emails that I haven't responded to. And they, they're trying to do the best they can. But if these waivers say, um, I looked at the waiver for— I did two races this year, Eugene Marathon and Cocodona 250, and the waivers mention liability and insurance things. Doesn't mention anything about USATF or drug testing or any of these requirements. There's no mention of it.

But it's also what the, the thing that doesn't make any sense is, first of all, BPC-157 is not a performance-enhancing substance. Yeah, it, it helps heal soft tissue injuries. It's very good for recovery from injuries. That was what— that's one issue. The other issue is it was 2 fucking years ago. There's no way that's affecting you in this year's Eugene Marathon. That is— no, it's long out of your system.

It's a smokescreen. You know, we've talked about smokescreens here.

It's— well, what he's doing is basically He's accusing you because you took BPC-157 and he's saying you're lying about doing all these other things.

I've been called a liar, a cheater, a doper, stealing. It's like, yeah, but it's all fine.

But this is essentially what we were talking about earlier. Yeah, we were talking about earlier about people that are outliers that are like super successful and they'd be, fuck that guy, that guy cheats, that guy this, that guy that. Same fucking thing. Yeah, this guy can't appreciate that. Here's a guy who was running a fucking marathon a day while working an 8-hour job. I was your friend then. Yeah, this is real. I know you did this. I was always telling you to quit your job. Yeah, yeah, I was the first guy telling you, quit that fucking job, you're killing yourself. I was worried about you because I know that your mind is so strong that you are willing to push your body to the point where it could actually fail. And willpower is really important. Having a strong will will get you through through so much in life that other people will not be able to pass. They will not be able to break through. But will could also get you killed, you know, and it could also ruin your life. You could hurt yourself to the point, you know, you hurt your back or something to the point where you never recover.

It never comes back. Like, you have to— there's like a fine line between mental toughness and, and just being able to see the big picture and go, it's actually smart to not be tough and it's not to deny my toughness. I got to know that I am tough and have confidence in my toughness enough to give my body a break and rest myself. That's why I was always worried about you, because you were doing things with no fucking sleep, and I saw it. I know you did it. I watched. That guy's not doing this. And you have to understand that the kind of willpower that a guy like you has, or a guy like Goggins has, where they can do things where people go, no one could do that— the fuck they can't. Can't. Like, how many UFC fighters have you seen go and train with Goggins? And they're like, Israel Adesanya, world champion, world-class guy, throwing up at a fucking garbage can, can't keep up with him. Tony Ferguson, like, who is known in the MMA world for fucking superhuman endurance. Tony Ferguson would just walk people down in his prime. He was el cacuy.

He was the fucking boogeyman because he never got tired. Yeah, and even if you hurt him, it didn't matter. He was going to recover and come back after you. He's coming. He was coming for your fucking soul. Mm-hmm. That guy was breaking down. Everybody breaks down, and it's— he's doing it in silence. No one even knows who's doing it with no music. He's doing it by himself. No one's pushing him. Yeah, he's a fucking full-on psychopath. They are real. Yeah, there's real people out there that are really living like that. This guy should look at that and take inspiration from it, but he's got these ideological differences with you because he's a vegan. Vegan, and because he thinks hunting is cruel, and you're an asshole, and you're killing animals. And meanwhile, he needs to eat one of them fucking bear sticks. They're fucking delicious. Give me another one. I want another one. Fucking awesome. They're great. But it's just, it's just what we're talking about. It's if you and that guy actually had a conversation— thank you— if you and that guy actually had a conversation and you were civil and there was no cameras and it was just two human 2 human beings having a conversation, I guarantee you probably have way more in common than you do not.

Outside of the ideological differences about hunting and veganism and maybe a lack of understanding about what even veganism entails, because most of it entails large-scale monocrop agriculture. If you're just buying plants, you are responsible for the death of a fucking countless number of creatures. Yeah, fact, end of story. Especially if you start talking about bees. Yeah, avocados and almonds. Oh, I'm eating almonds, I'm healthy. You fucking killed 100 billion bees. All right, stop. Yeah, outside of that, what are you both doing? You're both pushing yourself to the limits of your ability. And maybe if that guy had a bear stick or two, had some real protein, he'd have a better time.

Well, I I, I mean, right? Yeah, I'm—

I need some real fucking protein.

I am friends with a lot of people just like him in belief, and like on the political spectrum or even the diet spectrum. And I— it hasn't affected our friendship at all because what I focus on is what do we have in common. We love the mountains, we love to run, we love to push ourselves. I don't need to align with everybody 100%, so I'm, I'm friends friends with tons of liberal people and love them. It's like, has nothing to do with anything. It's, uh, but for him, you know, I was on the radar for a few different reasons. This gave him like the reason why, like, BPC-157 is banned for Olympians, not for a regular person. Regular people can take it. Right. So I'm just like, he's like, do you know what the rules are? And I'm like, I don't give a fuck about the rules. So then he turned that into like, like, he doesn't care about the rules, he's going to do everything, anything he wants. I'm like, no, I don't care about rules that don't apply to me. I'm just like, whatever. So the rules that apply to me are— is this rule.

And it's like, if you want to talk about rules, I follow the rules. Like I talked about purchasing, you know, when I was the buyer at my old job for 20 years, I had to go by laws and rules every day. And so I respect that if it has to do with me, if it affects me, I'm like, "Okay, I understand it." Well, this one, you start bringing up these USATF sanctions and what I need to know when I sign a waiver for a race and I look at the waiver and the waiver doesn't mention anything about this. This says, if the USATF-sanctioned event is, if we're talking drug testing, it says, "Related published materials must contain the following language." So when I see that it says that must contain the following language, in my contract days, I'm like, well, that didn't say should, or didn't say may, because should and may means it doesn't have to, right? When it says must, it must. So it says it must say this: athlete who participate in this comp— in this competition may be subjected to formal drug testing in accordance with the blah blah blah. So basically it has to have this language and it has to spell out exactly what it is.

Their rules, their own rules say it must be included. I've never seen this language. It was never included in anything that I've agreed to with these in regard to these races.

So there's no responsibility to go to the website and find out what the standards are.

No.

If they had just the waiver, even if they had a link link. Like, okay, right. And so if they said, if you are going to race, you must be held to the standards of this race, right? You can go visit them on this website.

That's fine. I would be like, oh, that was my bad, I didn't do that, right? They never mentioned it. So if somebody said, like, I didn't know BPC was banned for Olympians at all before this. I just thought that it was another— maybe you could get a TUE for— I didn't even know what TUE was. But because I just— it's not my world. My world is bow hunting. I just try to get in as good shape as I can.

You're not trying to do it for money. You're just doing it.

I've never won money. I've never been on a national team. If I wanted to be, if that was what I was going to do, I would know everything about the rules, everything about what I could take or what I couldn't take. I mean, you can't take THC, you know. I mean, they say you can take it but not on the day of competition. So you know how long THC is in your system. Yeah. So you took it the day before, but you didn't— but you're still going to test hot. You just can't run Yeah, but, but as long as that lasts in your system, how are they gonna prove if you took it that morning?

Well, they would have to be able to test your levels right after you race, and they could determine whether or not you were actually intoxicated during the race. That's how Nick Diaz got popped. Oh really? Takanori Gomi. They said his fucking levels were off the charts. And that was yusada, probably. I don't believe it was. I believe that was I think that was Pride, and I think it was the first time that Pride had an event in the United States, and they had it in Vegas, I believe. See if that's, that's right. It was a long time ago. I want to say this is— God, I want to say like 2005. It was a big win when Nick beat Takanori Gomi. Takanori Gomi was one of the big stars over in Pride, and Nick, he got him with a gogo plata, which is a crazy submission off your back where you use the shin in against the guy's neck and you're grabbing your foot from behind his head and— God. Nasty. But they said he was off the charts. They said he was high as a kite when he was fighting, which I fucking love.

Yeah. But you're not allowed to do that. And I think for good reasons. I don't think you should be allowed. But look, the reality of these drug tests are is that if you're saying to a person that you can't take it the day of the competition, and they're a regular user, they're gonna have a lot of THC in their system, right? They just are. And I think so. You could, you could take a very high dose of edibles the day before a race and you would still be intoxicated the day of the race. That's, that's— so what year was this? Apparently the commission felt the level which Diaz tested at, 175, was a considering factor in his performance during the fight. Dr. Tony Alamo, the commission's chair, said that— so it was Nevada— a result of, uh, 15 is considered positive, but Nevada State Athletic Commission has a threshold of 50 tests positive for THC. They feel very comfortable that everybody that tests positive in Nevada is truly positive. Mr. Diaz was 175. This creates a unique situation. I was there at the fight. I believe you were intoxicated and that it made you numb to the Did it help you win?

I think it did. I don't— you know, listen, Diaz is gonna be numb to the pain anyway. He's one of the toughest fucking dudes that's ever lived. Yeah, I don't— I don't know if you can make that argument that it helped you win. I think it probably relaxed him. He likes it. He, you know, he probably could go out there high and fight more in his element, but he could fight in his element anyway. So he was one of the best fighters on earth at the time. He's a world-class fighter. The idea that that helped him win is like, yeah, prove it. It's just prove it. He was beating everybody anyway. It's a stretch. It's like, I just don't think that we need to be opening the Pandora's box to testing 9,000 people or having them, you know, like, well, it's also be realistic about what you're saying because what you're saying is if all you did was take that drug, it's not even a drug, take that peptide in 2024 for a broken foot, it. There's no fucking chance that helped you win a marathon 2 years later. It does not help, other than the fact that it helped to heal your broken foot.

That's not performance enhancing. No, not— but this guy's kind of a hater. Not even kind of, he's a hater. It was—

which I understand. Yeah, yeah. I, I mean, I admitted that I took it, and it's like, at that— and I actually, that night I remember I didn't even know when that was. I fucking can't remember when I go— went to Wastewell. I was like, I don't— I thought it was like 6 months ago. I couldn't even fucking remember. So then I got a hold of him. I said, no, I need, you know, the details of my, my treatment. And it, you know, it was in November of 2024. And I'm like, okay, but anyway, that night I said, yeah, I've done stem cell, I've done TRT before, and mentioned BPC-157. And it's like, I didn't know when that was, but I just kind of— because he was like coming at me, I'm just like, no, fuck off. It's like, I do all this, I don't know whether it's proved or not, it has nothing to do with me. I'm not an elite athlete, I'm fucking bowhunter. So I was like, kind of wanted to just shit on him at that time. Well, he got what he needed because admitting to taking BPC for like an Olympian is a huge deal because it's banned.

Band just for them, not for me. And that— then he could go to USADA and say, oh, this guy took a ban. And they're, you know, now they're like— it sucks. It's like they're in a position where, I don't know, it's just like so much— the public knows about it so much. It's like, you know, I got articles about me and talking about all this crazy shit. I'm just like, I was just trying to not have 2 or 3 surgeries. It's just like, I'm not trying to win a in my age category of marathon. And then they'll turn it into like, well, that's not fair to the other people who are performing clean. I was just like, it's not, we don't even know what people are taking. I was like, I'm not even in this field of this elite field where this is, all I did was admit I was truthful. Everybody else just lies.

Yeah, well, maybe, maybe lies, maybe doesn't. Doesn't. But the, the, the point is a giant percentage of people right now are taking peptides because they're very beneficial to help heal injuries. And if you're gonna run marathons like the way you run them with very fast times, you're probably training really hard. If you're training really hard, you're probably gonna get injured. Yeah, yeah, it's just— but it's a hater thing is what it is. Or yeah, he's accusing you of lying, which I know you're not a liar. But so this is the thing, he's He's attacking your character, but it's also the fact that, you know, that quote that I love, all criticism is the tragic result of unmet needs. This guy's an elite athlete, no one knows who he is. Yeah, you know, that's part of the problem. Yeah, and then when someone who's very popular is creeping in on his times, like, that's like, how, how's that possible? He's 18 years older than me, fuck this guy. No one ever wants to think that someone actually works harder than them.

No, no, it Yeah, I mean, and I get that. I mean, I'm a human too. I understand how that can happen. But like, to call me like a doper trying to discredit everything I've done, it's just like, it's so not even real.

The approach to use is to just be honest, lay it all out, and leave it alone. Yeah. I don't think like going after this guy and talking a lot of shit is in any way beneficial.

I don't want— I want everyone to succeed. I don't have anything personal against against this guy. I didn't like he was talking shit about Truett. I didn't—

but even that, it's just, it's just haterade. He just sees Truett running with those fucking perfect jeans on and looking all handsome. He's also a little too buff to be a marathon runner, which drives people nuts too. Yeah. And then he also won the World Pull-Up Challenge. Like, look, when someone breaks the world record in pull-ups, that is a fucking extraordinary human being, period. And for you to discredit that person in marathon running after they've done that. Well, you're a fool. Yeah, this isn't just a regular person, right? There's a person who broke the world fucking record for chin-ups or pull-ups. Yeah, that's a crazy thing to do. Yeah, to do thousands of pull-ups in 24 hours, rip your fucking hands to shreds. Yeah, that's an extraordinary person. For him to not recognize that, he's being a bitch. Yeah, it— which is fine. It's a natural characteristic that a lot of human beings have. Yeah. And especially ones that are not getting their needs met in terms of the attention they feel they deserve and who are ideologically opposed to you because you're a hunter.

What the traction he's got is because it's almost like if you say, you know how some people would say, oh, you're interested in border security, like protecting the border. Racist. Right, right, right.

Racist, you're a Nazi. Right, you're a cheater.

So to say that I'm a cheater or a doper, you don't have to say anything else because it's like, oh, that guy. So now I'm kind of tainted by— with that language when the fact of the matter is this is years ago. I don't take any— I mean, I take plenty, like fish oil, magnesium, all this other bullshit Trace gives me, but the, like, the level of doping I know about, I don't know shit. I don't even— I don't know EPO. I know we've talked about this before, but I don't even know really what EPO does other than make make like more red blood cells or something so there's more oxygen. But I'm so like illiterate on performance and like PEDs. I'm just like, I don't, I don't even take testosterone anymore because I run better low, which is weird. And I didn't know if this happened because they say when you run like long distances, extreme long distances, your testosterone drops ops. I almost think that's by design because I look at like how these women have been performing at these huge races with low testosterone or higher estrogen. They perform better. And so I'm just like, man, maybe I don't need the TRT.

Maybe. And so I haven't— like, I had, I had, um, I got a prescription filled like last September and I still have 4 of the things out of 10. And anybody who's a doper they don't got dope sitting around. Like, if you had, you know, if— I don't care if it's meth or fucking testosterone, if you have it, you take it if you're a doper, right? So I haven't done it because I'm— I operate better with a low heart rate, low testosterone, and I can run.

But low body weight too, that's a big factor.

Yeah, I'm like 148 is what I got down to when I— what are you right now?

Like 52. Wow.

When I met you, you were in the 80s. Yeah, I was just lifting. I just— I always ran, but I'd run like 5 miles a day, and I wanted to be like— I thought like for hunting I needed more muscle to perform because I need to carry heavy loads and things like that. Now I've realized that I'm better with extreme endurance, and I'm still strong for, for like 148, still very strong compared to like a normal 148. So I'm still able to the task I need to do, carry heavy loads when I kill. You've optimized. Yeah.

So, well, this is the big factors, the weight, because I'm pretty heavy. Yeah. And I notice the difference, you know, like I've lost— I, when I hunted a few years back, I got down to the 190s, early 190, like 192 or 193, and I felt way lighter. Yeah. Like you would think 10 pounds, because right now I weigh 202 this morning, you would think 10 pounds is not that big of a deal. It's a big deal. Yeah, it's a big— when I work out workout and I put a 25-pound weight vest on, yeah, it's amazing how much harder it is to do chin-ups and push-ups and dips. It's amazing. Yeah. And it's only 25 pounds. No, you think about how many people just normally carry 25 extra pounds. You're walking around all day with a weight vest on, you know.

Well, and I've told Truth this too, it's like he's heavier, but every guy lining up to run them, the Olympic trials qualifier or like when they run the Olympic trials for the marathon, there won't be anybody over like 140.

So I said— which totally makes sense, you're fighting gravity.

Yeah, I mean, you got to be light. Yeah. So I said, you can't be 160 and compete.

What is he at now? He's like 58. And what is he trying to get down to?

He's got to be in the 40s, got to be like 140.

Oh my God, he's gonna look like Skeletor.

The guy, the guy who I just ran with, who ran Eugene and set the course record and all that. He's 135, probably like 6'1". Whoa. That's just the name of the game, right? You like the East Africans, super light. The guy who just broke the world record of the marathon, he's like 135— or no, no, 115. Geez, tiny little guy.

So it's like, makes sense.

That's just, that's just performance, right? That's just what it takes, a huge engine, a light body, right? And, uh, so like Like, to, to paint me this way when I was trying to avoid surgery, haven't taken BPC since then, um, it's just, it's kind of just—

I think all you could do is state your case, and I think you just did, and you just did it really well. And I know you, and I can speak for you. You are as honest a human being as I've ever met in my life. You don't lie about anything, and you are— and it's also why you work so hard. You work so hard so you don't have I mean, you're an insanely hard worker. I didn't lie about this either.

I mean, that's what I just said. Yeah, I did. I didn't remember when, but good, looked it up. Here's when it was, whatever.

You know, this guy's got to get over it. Maybe you should have a conversation with him on Keep Hammering Collective.

Yeah, I mean, I don't— I would talk to anybody. I don't, you know, I talk to people who feel differently than me all the time. People—

there's also a problem where people don't know someone and they you don't communicate with them. And so you kind of form a narrative and then you fight that narrative, you know, you attack that narrative, you attack a creation of who the person is rather than the actual person. And people like to do that because they like to turn someone into a demon. Yeah, they like to turn someone into an— not even a person. That's how people have to do that with war. They love to do that with it. It's religion.

It's easy to garner support with keywords, using keywords that nobody could defend. It would be like, okay, we you got. That'll work right there. And so that's where, you know, the Nazi or the doper, the racist— that's why those words are always out there. Yep. It's like, because they're powerful. Exactly. That's exactly— and when, and when you, you know, when you get boxed in a corner, you can use those words and it buys you some time. Yeah, there's that.

And there's also, you know, there's a lot of people that don't have a good personal insight. They don't understand what they're doing. Really. They think they're justified in what they're doing. Really, it's just a bunch of bitchy bullshit.

One thing that I did— I think part of this, um, I, I don't want to be demonized about, like, with the peptides, because it shouldn't be demonized. But one thing I think a lot of people— because I, as you said, a lot of people are taking these peptides, a lot of people are doing the TRT stuff— I think that there was a big shift when COVID happened as far as distrust in the, the health— I mean, basically our health and wellness category. Like, it started maybe with Obamacare. Uh, people are having trouble getting in their doctor. Doctors quit because it's too frustrating. So people— we've had a hard time getting medical treatment, like, to be healthy. And then COVID happened, and then they were shoving down, you know, the vaccine down our throats, and turned out like it wasn't as safe and effective as they said. So I think people like like they see that the writing was on the wall. They couldn't get into their doctor. The doctor was like just writing prescriptions. So then the wellness clinics popped up, right? And it feels like it was after COVID for now. Like you got A Ways to Well, and there's other places like it where you can go in and they care about how you feel.

They want you to— they want to help you feel better, like live like an optimized life. Like you're old, but you don't have to feel old. And so they're like they can do the blood panel where getting a blood panel at your regular doctor was like pulling teeth for a while. It's like, no, we don't need to do that. But you go to a wellness clinic, they'll do it and they'll tell you, yeah, you're deficient here, this, this, or that. We could add this, we could try this. Um, and then also you start to feel better and you're like, well, these people care about my health. The doctor, what'd he care about? Writing prescriptions.

And then, yeah, the doctors, they're playing a totally different game, as we could see from that hospital video that we just watched, right?

So it's no wonder that Waste and like these, these other treatments, maybe bypassing surgery and let's try this peptide. I see that it's kind of evolving and it's changing. And the sport of ultra needs to also— and running needs to, to be on board with that because most of your field aren't elites and aren't Olympians, right? They're regular people who just are trying to do what they enjoy. And that's me.

While they're working a full-time job, most of them. Yeah, well, I think you laid your case out and I gotta pee. Yeah, let's wrap this bad boy up and bring it home. Congratulations on your bear hunt. You got two giant monsters. Oh yeah, we got John and Jen. Yeah, shout out to John and Jen Rivett. Yeah, I'm gonna try to come next year, swear. Love those guys. Love those guys. I love that place they have up there too. It's crazy. And for people who don't know, those— these, these bear have no natural predators other than grizzlies. Grizzlies. They have to be controlled. They are devastating the moose and deer and elk population up there because they kill all the calves. They, they, they're ruthless predators, opportunistic hunters. They eat each other.

Just to put that in perspective, in Alaska they're flying out of helicopters shooting bear. Yeah, because there's so many of them, not enough are getting killed, so they wipe out all the ungulates. Yeah, so it's like, it, it's an issue. You just don't know about You know, people don't know that Alaska's flying helicopters leaving bears after they kill them.

I know, and everybody thinks of bears as Yogi. Yogi and Boo Boo. And, you know, come for a trip. Take a trip to Alberta. I'll show you some real shit. Yeah, yeah, no, it's— I remember when, you know, I've told the story, you know, Jen and I ran into a grizzly once when we were out there. Just briefly. We only saw it briefly. We were like, let's get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, they don't even hunt over there anymore because too many grizzlies. Grizzlies. So that's like— it's crazy. That's quite a ways from where we hunt now, just because—

isn't that crazy?

A grizzly starts coming in the bait. Yeah, that's a problem.

You gotta get out of there, especially—

I like to sit on the ground.

And they need to start hunting them up there too. They do. And you know, this is, uh, the— when they changed that law in BC, they made it a fucking disaster up there. There's so many grizzly now. Yeah. And it's just the people that live in these high population areas that don't have any encounters with them. And there— it's ballot box biology. It's people They're trying to be good people. Do you want to outlaw trophy hunting? Yeah, these cruel assholes, they just want to shoot this animal for its skin. Yeah, fuck them. They just want to show what a big man they are by killing an animal.

Like, that guy calls me a trophy hunter. Like, he's like, he's like, oh, I understand deer and elk hunting but not bear.

It's just like, well, you don't know what you just eat.

How is that bear? We just— delicious. How's that any different than deer and elk?

My daughter went to school one day and they were asking what your favorite food what the food was, and she said bear candy. 'Cause Steve Rinella taught me a recipe called bear candy, how to make this, like, it's like a, you make it with brown sugar and you cook this bear, and it's like a sweet and sour pork kind of deal, but with bear. It was fucking delicious, and I served it for my kids, and my daughter, I think she was just trying to, like, jostle people up a little bit. I ate bear.

Well, Jen makes some badass bear stir-fry. Oh, it's fantastic. I mean, I would say, like—

Her bear meat is fantastic. Fantastic.

I was just thinking to myself, Mountain Ops has those new freeze-dried meals. Maybe I need to get some, right? Dehydrated, get some bear meat in there. Yeah, yeah. Because those things are good.

His own food, he does it all in a dehydrator, then rehydrates it in camp. He vacuum seals his own stuff. Some of those meals do. Yeah, what's the best way to do it too if you want to eat clean? If you want to eat clean in the mountains? Oh yeah, get a dehydrator for that energy.

Because just like in ultras and performing, what you're using for calories matters. 100%. So especially on a long hunt, if you can— like, we had— I had some Mountain Ops, uh, freeze-dried in there, like chicken Alfredo. That's just fucking good, good calories. 100%.

And also electrolytes. Boy, I— it changed for me when I started using Element. When I started throwing Element in my water when I was out there, giant difference. Get those electrolytes.

That's the first thing I drink in the morning is an Element. Yeah, because I know I'm because I run every day. I know, I think I've been also like low on sodium for a long time just because of how much I run. For sure. Like, I run so much, like, I get sores here because my shirt gets soaked with sweat, and wet clothes sitting on my skin makes all these sores from running for hours in a wet shirt. That's crazy.

And so guys wear their nipples out. They have to put that—

yeah, that happened. I wore like a Shades. I wear like a bra, sort of. Well, it's like a little, uh, running pack, but it holds my shirt right there on my tits. But this here bounces, and it's like just being wet.

But that's crazy, it makes sores on your skin just from a t-shirt.

It does, just from being— you should start running in silk— just from being warm. But I think that I was sweating so much that when I do that element first thing in the morning, it sets up for the whole day to be able to perform at a higher level.

Yeah, even just some sea salt in your water. Like, you need minerals. Everybody does need electrolytes. All right, let's wrap it up. Yep. All right, my brother, I love you to death. Love you. You're awesome. Glad you had an opportunity to come on here, and this is all very important stuff to talk about. And one more time, that number for everybody. I want to call that number.

I know, call your— call your center, 202-234- 3121. Say roadless rule needs to keep— stay intact. Mike Lee can suck a big fat one.

America, fuck yeah! Bye everybody.