Transcript of Episode #84 Featuring James Barry Founder of PLUCK!

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Jj Virgin brought him up to me on her podcast and said, You have got to talk to this guy. I am so thankful. When I get connections like this, my guest is a one-of-a-kind guy. I'm going to really try to give him the intro he deserves. I can't do him justice, but just briefly, quickly, so I can drain him for energy because he does some really interesting and intriguing things that you guys are going to absolutely love. He's a professional chef, 20 years experience. He's published a cookbook, and he's the host of the Every Day Ancestral podcast. Make sure you check that out. It's amazing. He's the founder of Plott, and I'm sure many of you have heard of it, but if you haven't, you're going to learn a great deal today, which is the world's first organ-based reasoning, and it makes eating nose to tail simple and delicious. I can confirm this a million %. He's cooked for celebrities, Tom Cruise, George Clooney, but he's really turned his focus, which I love, to nutrient density and ancestral health. And so what that does is it helps bridge the gap between taste and nourishment. And quite simply, his mission is to normalize organ meats as everyday superfoods and make real whole food accessible to everyone.

And you guys know that's my belief, too. So we see eye to eye. So my friends, and thank you for coming all the way to see me, James Berry.

It's such a pleasure. I mean, we connected over the phone. Beautiful connection. Now we finally get to meet in person. So it's truly, truly awesome.

We could have done this virtually. We did before, but this is way better, and it's way more meaningful and impactful. Look, it means a lot to me personally when people do that because it says, wow, we believe in what you're doing. We're invested in what you're doing, and we want to grow with you. I'm thankful, man, so I appreciate it.

It's so mutual. I know we were just talking about it before the cameras rolled, but your journey while challenging.

I cry. Yeah.

You probably don't want to repeat it, but it's created such beauty and bounty, and most importantly, value. It I think about that all the time. Why am I on this planet and what value am I bringing? Because I just feel like, particularly in this today and age, there's so many talking heads. There's so much just noise that I'm looking for authenticity, integrity, accountability, and true value, just transparent value. I believe that's absolutely what you represent as well.

When you become God first, you find that, and you live that way like you're talking, the people that you meet, they just fall into your lap.

Yeah, absolutely. I moved to Boston just a couple of years ago, as you know, and I drove from the West Coast all the way to the East Coast. Man, if anyone out there doesn't think there's problems, and I don't mean people are the problem. I'm saying we only know what we know. You can't ding someone for not knowing. It's just we only know what we know, what we're exposed to, what experiences we have, what contrast. But I saw things like I would go into some towns and there would be nothing open except fast food when I got there. Or I'd go into some grocery stores and then it's just all like hostess products and no fresh food. You're just like, Well, of course people are looking sick. Of course people are addicted to these foods. Of course They're not comfortable in their bodies. It's like, What do we expect? There's a problem. Anyone out there that's like, Oh, it tries to push that under the rug. I'm just like, Dude, you're not helping anyone. No. We got to be honest with ourselves. The system is broken.

There's a harsh reality out there that a lot of us never see. You know my story. I don't take anything for granted because I have been at the lowest of the low, so I get it. But some people haven't. Even after that, you still have your days where you forget. I remember quickly, but it's important that the message is conveyed, and I appreciate you bringing it up and making it clear to people. This is not a lecture. It's not coming down to people. It's an awareness call to just ease up a little bit and understand there's some messed up things out there.

Absolutely. I think even back to the linchpin for me of what moves me towards rethinking health. I was just out of college. I was an actor then. I had booked this. It's called the Williamstown Theater Festival in Massachusetts. It's a pretty well-known theater festival. I flew from California to Massachusetts, didn't know anyone. I was there a week, and I started experiencing this extreme pain. I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was maybe it was an appendicitis. But I was crumpled in the corner, and my roommate/new friend was like, Dude, I think something's wrong. You've been here an hour. You need to go to the hospital. I was so scared. I was like, Okay. I think I was in so much pain at that point. I was like, Yeah, I'll do whatever you tell me. We get there, they still don't know what it is, but they give me They give me something for the pain. It turned out I had a kidney stone. I pass it. Luckily, after I passed it, the first The person I saw the doctor, I said, So how do I make sure I never have the skin?

Because that was the most pain I've ever felt. He was like, he said something really important to my journey. He said, Well, what have you been eating and drinking? Had he not said those simple words, I would not have connected that the food I eat affects my health. I was in my early 20s. But how many people do you know that are in their 30s, 40s, 50s that still don't get that what you eat affects your health? It seems so simple, but it's this. People still don't connect that.

I give the same spiel over and over, but I'm going to give it to you. When I look and I structure things for people, especially like the bodybuilders I used to train, I would explain to them, Look, we take your diet, we take your training, and then we take your supplements. For them, it was steroids, but your supplements or your extras to get you over the hump. I said, Look, 75% to 80% of this is diet. It is. Of course, Of course, you got to work out hard. Of course, you got to train hard for the physique. But you cannot outwork a dog shit diet. You just can't do it. You can have a very strong diet and not work out a ton, which I do not recommend, by the way. But I'm saying you could still be in pretty good, decent condition. Of course, you want to work out. It's important. But if you work out a lot and you eat like crap internally, you're done. Your blood panel is going to show it. It's the The diet's everything. It really is. The supplements and all that's like 3% to 5%. It is. It'll just get you over the pump and it'll supplement extra things that you need and everything like that.

But diet, diet, diet, diet, diet.

I know We talk about this a lot, like peptides. Peptides are pretty amazing. They're revolutionary. They're potentially the future of health. But everyone I talk to, and I have to imagine you're on the same, you're basically saying this, too, is It almost doesn't matter what newfangled biohack we have because there's still the necessity to hit the foundations. Sleep, nutritious food, movement, stress level checks. Those four pillars never change. To me, that's the ancestral part. We cannot take the ancestral out of the modern tech or the biohack. You can't remove them. They're not separate.

Dude, I can give you every fancy technology, every peptide, every supplement, every sterile. I don't care what it is. But if you are not taking care of what you need to take care of, like what you just said, none of it's going to work. If you're not hormonally optimized, if you're not mentally optimized. See, I'm doing a lot of mind-body connection because it requires both. If you don't have both, if you're off in your mind or if you're off internally, you will never be right. It takes a large group of things, but there There are key components to that. With what you do, and what we're going to get into is the diet part makes such a big difference because I would argue that stress and diet will have the most positive or negative effect. Because if you have those two things going on, and that's where I'm talking about the neural side and then the physical side, you think about it and think about what those do and the harm they cause. See, I spent so much time focusing on the nutrition side the weight lifting side, but forgot about the neuro side and how much it goes together.

But man, we need specialists in both. Then somebody like me that will say, Hey, put it together and bring us all together to do it. But that's what you do, and that's what I love about what you do, because you do something so unique that nobody's ever done or looked at. But I think that we should... First, let's explain what it is you have, but then let us discuss organ meats and benefits of animal fats and these stigmas that have been put on them and these misleading information over the years because you know where I'm coming from, and I want your side of it.

For my money, those foundations that we just identified are really key. I think that we're trapped in a modern phenomena where we're really the only species in the world that looks to someone else to tell us what to eat. That's humbling right away. But if you think about it, there's over nine million species on this planet. Clearly, we did know. We're not so unique that it's like, Oh, we're the only... It's like, No, we did know. But we're just in a state, this modern life these Franken Foods, this whatever marketing machine we're trapped in, lobbyists, all that stuff is just confusing us. What I recognize in my 20 plus years of working with celebrities and working with food and supporting people to eat real food is I was noticing that they were doing what they thought was all the right stuff, organic, whatever was the trend. They all thought they were doing the right stuff. Then they still were nutrient deficient, or there were still health issues, or they were still struggling. I was like, What is going on? This is not good. Then you're hearing how the agricultural systems are broken and the topso and the food coming out every decade is less nutrient dense.

You're learning all these things of like, Oh, yeah. Then the stressors of life are also hurting us because you can't absorb as much when you're stressed out. There's so many different factors. I was like, Okay, let's just bottom line this. What is the most nutrient dense food? Not what we think is the most nutrient dense food, but what really is. I just started doing the research. I'm like, okay, organ meats popping up every single time. Lever is always at the top. Even above beef, even above salmon, you name it. It's always like they'll have every mineral or vitamin they're checking. Lever is the only one that checks off every single box. The other ones might have some of something, but none of something else. But liver checks every box. You're like, Okay, that's interesting. But then we have these hurdles. People, whether they've had them or not, they think they're gross. They're icked out, which I get. I get. If you're not familiar with something or I think even make you think of your own mortality a little bit. There's just this vibe that it's like, rather not. There you have that. Then you have that because they're not plentiful, because they're not always on the dinner table, we just have lost the culinary knowledge of how to cook them.

I'll just give people value right now around liver. It's at its most flavorful when it's raw.

Really?

It is the best when it's raw. It gets stronger the longer and the more you cook it. So right there, that tells you that most people that are grossed out by it because they were forced to eat liver and onions, it's because it was over cooked. It's a texture and a flavor. And it gets stronger and chalkier and just grosser the longer it cooks. So if you want to sample it, first try it raw, and then when you go to cook it, cook it when it's still pink. Don't wait for it to be gray. In Because we have to remember, when you cook something, there's residual heat. You don't want to cook it all the way. And this goes for anything, muscle meat, anything. You don't want to ever cook it all the way in the pan, because the minute you pull the pan off the stove, it's still cooking. Even when you put it on your plate, it's still cooking. So you always want to pull back a little bit. You'll like the food better. It will be more juicy. It's just way better, right? Here's another tip. A lot of people always just throw salt all over the muscle, the meat, like the steak.

But what does salt do to meat? It pulls out the moisture. Really, what you want to do is you want to put the salt on the fat and not put it on the muscle meat, and you'll have juice to your steak. Even better is you take the steak, you put the salt, just use a little salt on the fat, and then you compound some butter. I like to use pluck in it. I put pluck in the butter, and then you put a slab of butter on it after it's been cooked and let that butter with the pluck just melt right over the steak. It's It's the best steak you ever have, man. The best. Dude. But so going back to it, so I recognize organ meats were the most nutrient dense. I was like, Okay, how do I solve this? Because the reality is I'm a father now, and that's really what upped the Annie for me. When I became a father, I was like, Okay, no more games. It's about my kids now, and that's bigger than me. It's like, I'm not messing around. How do I get these nutrients in them? But I don't want to fight.

At the end, we all... I mean, come on, anyone that's a parent, Just in general, we all... Life is hard enough. I don't want to fight in the kitchen. I don't want to make something and then have someone say, Well, I'm not eating that. It's like, You're eating it. You're eating it, and you're eating it right now. But I didn't want to fight. I was like, How do I solve this? I've always been as a chef, I'm not into watching chef culture. I like studying cookbooks, and I like I'm learning about how people do things, but I'm not into the whole celebrity chef thing. I don't find that interesting. I'm not interested in just doing things the way that they've historically been done. I'm interested in how do I do it where you'll eat it, where it's flavorful, but not sacrificing health. That's always how I've been slanted. That's how I looked at the problem. I was like, Okay, wait, we already have freeze-dried, powdered organ meats because they're showing up in capsules. We already have dried herbs, onion, garlic. When you make a pâté, that is what you're doing. You're combining the organs with these other flavors to offset the taste.

I was like, Why don't I make a dry pâté? It just steam rolled from there. Then I tried it and I was like, Oh, wait a second. If I take the organ means... So pluck is essentially what it became. But I start out just doing liver. But then it became liver, heart, kidney, splenipancreus, freeze, dried, and powder, 100% grass-fed, all the quality. So now you don't to worry about sourcing. I combine it with salt, organic spices and herbs. Now that flavor, because it does bring a lot of flavor, but then also that microdosing of that health is as easy as just salt in your food.

Yeah.

And suddenly, it's like there's no fight. There's no like, I don't know how to cook this. There's no unfamiliarity. It's like we all season our food. So there could be anything going on in the world out there Emotionally, you could be going through heartbreak, but you're still going to season your food. Yeah. So there's no new habit. There's no hurdle there. But here's the piece that I've only recently learned that I'm just like, this is why I'm in it. So we're You're talking about your journey. I'm talking about mine. These journeys are really important to who we are now and the value we try to bring, right? But how do you pass on that? Say, if you have kids, you're not going to pass it on by the supplements you take in the corner of your kitchen all alone, just popping your pills, drink your... And then move on. We pass these on by talking about them. Why are we doing this? How is it affecting our body? It's got to be a discussion. That's how you pass Your kids are not only looking at what you do, but they're also looking at how you talk.

They're looking at the connection, the interaction you have with them. That's what's truly moving their needle, and that's what's helping them develop. Well, the power of pluck is... Because really, how are people eating organs right now? They're either eating them every once in a while because they're a hunter or something like that. They're eating maybe once a month, maybe only three times a year, or not at all, or they're taking a capsule. When you're taking a capsule, it's usually isolated event. But pluck brings it to the kitchen table, to the dinner table. Now it's like, Hey, little Johnny, put it on your plate. Oh, that's so good, papa. It's like, That's really good. What is that? Oh, well, That's something that's giving you these vitamins, and it's this ancestral thing. It's how this body we're in. Suddenly, we're not talking about it, and now the kids will carry it with them. That's what we need. That's how we create change, I believe. Oh, yeah. It's got to be passed down.

Making it accessible and making it like something that's desirable. Because you're right. I've always been that way with a lot. A lot of the foods that I can't live without now, I spent decades not eating them because I thought I didn't like them, didn't even try You know how long it took me to start eating avocados, and now I cannot go a day without them. I battled with my wife about it, and I battled with the salmon and all these things that are now my favorite foods? I wouldn't much. Now, some of that was fear of fat, but even peanut butter, I wouldn't touch it for, I don't know, 25, 26 years unless it had jelly. Now, there's just spoons flying around of it everywhere. You know what I mean? You're right. For you to overcome something because I, too, and the older I've gotten now, and I always eat ancestral beef blends. I do Force in Nature because they have that really nice- They do a great job. Yeah, with the liver and the heart, they add into their elk and their beef and their venous so you can get it all, right? And the bison.

It tastes better, actually. But for you to do it that way, because it is, it doesn't sound great. To say, I want to eat liver or heart. Then you talk about eating raw liver, and I'm like, Oh, shit.

It's in ground meat. You're only getting it when you're eating the ground meat. If you have a steak, you're not getting it. No. But here's something that I'm so glad you brought up Force Nation because that's a great product. They're a great brand. What I'm about to say is no judgment on them because I love them and I use them. But it's more about people's perceptions of what they're getting. One of the questions we get asked all time, and I'm sure even people listening to this right now are like, Well, but how much organ meat am I really getting? Exactly. I'm always like, Okay, well, let's ask a couple of questions. First one, how much are you getting right now? Well, I don't need organ meat. Okay, so right there, just by using this, you're now getting something you weren't. That's important. Very. Then I'm like, When you take a raw organ, 100% organ, and you freeze dry, it goes down about 21%. That water weight loss is significant. Then you're now powdering that. It's even more concentrated now, right? We're putting currently 17% organ People are like, Well, that doesn't seem like a lot.

Well, guess how much organ meat is in that ancestral blend? Four. It's three or four. It's like four to seven, depending on which one. It's not a lot. It's not a lot. It's because you don't need a lot. I always talk about people… Imagine if, okay, you're a hunter back in the day. Because what's really important about when we talk about ancestral eating is we have to remember this body is Homo sapiens. This is like a 300,000 plus year old body, biologically. That That means the communication pathways are also developed that time frame. The food we're currently eating is what? 7,500 years? Maybe not even that. Probably not.

The way it is now, who knows? Who knows?

But it's like 300 100,000 years to 75, whatever. So it's like they don't even... It's like a speck compared to grounding life force. And so the way I always look at it is like, Hey, first of all, this body wasn't developed to be swallowing these nutrients. No. We lose a communication pathway when we swallow things. I always use salt as an example. Let's first say this. If I give you a salt tablet, you swallow it. You have no communication. There's no reaction. Thirty minutes later, you're like, Wait, why did I feel so bloated? Oh, yeah, that's right. I took a salt tablet. I probably got too much. It's a delayed response. But if I put salt on your tongue, there's immediate communication. Most people will say, Oh, it tastes really It's good. How does it taste the second time? Yeah, okay. Third time? No, no, no. Fourth time? No, no. It literally doesn't taste the same. Like your body's rejecting it. That's called the neurolingual response. That is an absolute communication pathway. We get that in so many different ways. If you're trying to lift something that's heavy, there's a communication that happens. What happens to your grip if it's too heavy for your body?

Loosening your grip. Yeah.

That's your body communicating, I can't lift this. It's protecting itself. Same thing happens with our tastes, really. Back in the day, what was the communication that was happening? It was really two main things, and they were very intense. One was, Is this food going to nourish me or is it going to kill me? They didn't have labels, obviously. It really was life or death. You eat the wrong mushroom, you're dead. You're foraging, you grab the wrong thing because you don't know, you're dead. Or you're severely sick, whatever. Something's going to happen. It was that communication pathway is crucial to getting us to where we are now. Most of us are disregarding that. We're just bypassing and just not even thinking about the fact that eating mindfully, eating slow enough, eating your food, chewing it. These are really crucial communication pathways to getting closer to what we identified earlier is that we're looking to other people. We're outsourcing our nutrition, our health. The only way to get back to what we probably innately already know is you got to eat your food. That's why I'm trying to bring it back. Yes, you can take it as capsules.

If you are and it's working, great. Keep it up because my pinnacle is eat organes. It's not just organes, it's nose to tail. Eat the whole animal. It's not just liver. Just eat as much as the animal as you can. If you're already doing that, you are ahead of everybody. If you're doing it in capsules and it's working for you, great. But if it's not working for you and you're recognizing that maybe you feel nauseous when you do it or it's not consistent, then I'm like, Dude, just do Pluck. Get it in your diet because it's a miracle. It's a miraculous food. Things just disappear. You have issues, skin issues, sleep issues, infertility issues. They just start to resolve.

It's everything. Ideally, you would use Pluck with the meat and do it together. Then you could really maximize what you were taking in, which is what I've been able to do since I met you, because I didn't even know what it was until I got introduced to it. I spent so long not even eating these foods that being a nutritionist and understanding what we're talking about, yet having the fear in my head of eating them because of the low fat. I've talked to you about this before, but- On cholesterol, right?

Because they have cholesterol.

Well, and that wasn't even my fear. It was because of having an My eating disorder, it was the fear of getting fat from eating fat. That's just like you said, these correlations of words. Even though I'm a 15-year-educated nutritionist and I put people on fat diets, I had myself convinced that I couldn't do it. Then when I finally When I finally did, my whole world has changed, like what you're talking about. So much more ability to focus skin. My mom was just here and she said to me, What did you do? What did you go and do and have done? I was like, What are you talking about?

Yeah, your skin is radiant. Thank you. It looks really clean and clear.

I use some good skincare and things that I'm thankful that I'm able to have, but it's been the diet shift. Yeah, it's inside outside, too. I have animal fats and protein, not only every day in meats and stuff like that. But even my protein powders that I customize, they're all pretty much, I have a little bit away, but they're generally like beef protein, isolate beef collagen. It's all around animal fats. Dude, I do half a pound to twelve ounces of good lean ground pork or ground meat every day. Then having Pluck as an addition, which I now use. When we use Pluck, just What is the extra that we're getting? Get into what that's actually going to do health-wise and how much extra nutrition that we're actually taking in with that. Because you think of a reasoning, you don't really think of getting much from it other than flavor.

Well, and really, that is what seasonings have been. We're redefining what seasonings could be. We're making it a functional seasonings. Most seasonings, what's the first ingredient? Salt. Salt. Yeah. Really, if you think about salt, it's very cheap. What they're selling you is salt with some season. Our first ingredient is onion, our second ingredient is organ meat. I think salt, depending on the skew, is third or fourth. What we're selling you is flavor with some It's a very different profile. Really, if you think about it, so Dr. Bill Shindler, he wrote a book called Eat Like A Human. He's an archeologist. He's specifically now focused on food archeology. But He talks about how back in the day, this is before we had fire, so we were foragers originally. When you were foraging, you were trying to basically forage all day to get enough nutrients to sustain your body. But we had smaller brains in, and we had bigger digestive process, so we could digest that stuff easier. Then we became scavengers. We weren't predators yet, but we came to the animal that was dead. We did get some meat. Still, the body didn't change much. That's really important because I think people are all about muscle meat right now.

I'm like, But historically or ancestially, we didn't change much when we got the muscle meat. It was when we became a predator, we got three things that we historically had not gotten, and one was blood, organs, and fat. I equate that to when you go to a convenience store at 7Eleven, they always have those bottles of emergency or whatever, and they're like, Just shoot this, and you feel super powerful. That's what I equate it to. It's like our body's got this power-packed, nutrient-dense food that it had never gotten before in that way. Then what happened is our brains got bigger, our guts got smaller, and eventually we got fire, and eventually we got this Homo sapiens body. But it took that. When I think about what are organ meats really providing, there's two ways we can look at this. One is, okay, think about how does your body feel when you eat these foods? Because I think that feeling it is really important because it's something that a lot of us aren't doing much is we're following what someone tells us to do, or we're following the diet we think we're supposed to be eating, but we're not listening to probably the one entity that is the most important thing in your life that's not going to lie to you, that's going to tell you whether it's working or not, and that's your body.

You got to be listening to your body. It's got to Trump the head. I know. I want you to feel like when you're eating, let's say, I don't know, something Franken food, like Hostice Twinkie, how does your body feel when you eat that? Shit. It really does. If we're really honest with it, it feels like shit. It's like you can feel the fats they're using, the oil. It just doesn't... In a sense, you can almost feel the inflammation happen. You can feel your body tensing up. I think what it's doing is these foods, when we eat certain foods, it's basically it's almost like that, is this going to make my body, is this going to nourish me or is it going to kill me? It's a form of killing. It's almost like this food is creating danger. My body is not responding, it's rejecting whatever it is. Then now think about what does your body feel like when you eat an egg or when you have bone broth or when you have just a basic whole food? It feels pretty fucking good. It feels pretty clean, right? You don't feel You don't feel foggy-headed. You don't feel inflamed.

You just feel good.

Good. Yeah.

That's safe. That's safety.

I mean, I just had a 1,000-calorie meal, and you hear that and you think that, and you'd be like, Oh, wow. I mean, you don't feel light as be it a million bucks. It's all heavy fats, avocados, whole eggs. I mean, basically, it was all of that. I feel like, wow, the whole world's opened up for me.

But it's all real.

It's all real, 100%, all real.

That's really key, right? When we think about, okay, what are organ means bringing to the table, the best, the easiest way, and I know you could probably go into more of the science. I'm not a scientist. I'm a chef, right? I thought to bring you on as to that. No, this is great. I try to break things down in the simplest terms, and I think about, okay, what is science telling us we need to create life? Well, they say, okay, you need a prenatal, and this is all the things you need. You need iron, you need magnesium, you need potassium, you need all these things. Vitamin B, right? Everything that's in a prenatal is in an organ meat. It's all there. None of it's synthetic, and it's all there in its synergistic properties. Back in the day, we used to give iron pills, and I'm talking in the '60s to people that were anemic. They later on learned, Oh, this is doing nothing because it's not paired with the nutrition that it needs to actually absorb. It's senseless. It literally was doing nothing. How often has that happened in history? Vitamin C, you're giving vitamin C, it's doing nothing because we don't have the rose hips or whatever.

There's always some synergistic thing that Mother Nature did right that needs be there for true health to happen. Oregon meets mother nature, did it. I'm not messing with it at all. All you're doing is preserving it through freeze drying. It's Mother Nature's multivitamin. I We don't want to get that into people. It's like, we're not trying to trick you. We're not trying to sell you like snake oil or say, we created this laboratory food, and we think that this is what it does because we've isolated it in this tunnel, and we've figured out that when you're perfectly in this state, that this is what happens. It's like, but we've never... That's what's always happening with science. It's always like, this is what's happening, and this is what's doing your body. Then when you bring it into, I always think it was like Jurassic Park. Then when you bring the dinosaurs into nature, they It's just go crazy. That's what's happening. We live in a toxic soup. How does anyone ever test what things are truly happening? It's impossible.

It's just dead. It's all nonsense.

But Mother Nature did it right in my judgment. If you're someone faith, you know exactly in five minutes.

I was just going to say everything that we need and that we have was given to us and put here. We either complicate it or make it something that it's not for money purposes. It's like this scandalous, the whole practice that people do with things that were sitting right here for us. Medicine, all of it, it's sitting there. But we've overcomplicated it, and there's a lot of reasons that are that are bad as to why. Some things people are inquisitive. They try things, Okay, that's fine. That's fair. But when you're just trying to make a quick buck at everybody else's expense and their health and misleading and lying blatantly, that's where this all comes from. Because like you said, it's really, I don't know, let's just say the past century. People have been greedy since the beginning of time, but the way that it's structurally and become more the ability to convey information and get it put into people's head, which really happened more in the past 30, 40 years where you can get information out and convolute, right? Yeah. Hypnotize people like they can in a variety of ways. And now you know this, they put stuff in food to get you addicted to it.

And it's like worse than taking cocaine.

Well, I think about back in the... Do you remember when frozen yogurt was all their age? What was that? 2000s or late '90s, something like that?

T-c-y, yogurt in those places, yeah.

So I remember reading an article, and This to me is the epitome of what we see. That was so trendy that you could open up a yogurt store and make a certain amount of money, a million dollars, something like that, and literally run it into the ground within a few years, but still walk away with a huge amount of money just because you were hitting the trend, right? Yeah. I feel like that's what's happening. I was just even at the store before coming here, and I was like, Oh, Talo. Talo chips and stuff are now becoming all the rage, or no seed oils. I'm like, This is interesting. Some of the companies are doing it right. It's just Talo and whatever, corn or potato, whatever they're doing. But then you go to some and it's like, Yeah, they're using Talo, but they're still using the sugar and all the other stuff and the preserves. It's like, nothing is different.

You're like, Dude, this is snake oil. It's so frustrating. It's like this. Let's relate this to the peanut butter aisle at Whole Foods or whatever. You see all of these natural peanut butters and natural this and organic this. I did I did this test with my wife one day. I said, Let's go look at all the backs of these and see how many of these just say peanuts and peanuts and salt, because that's all it should be, right? Totally. It should either be just peanuts or just peanuts and salt, depending on how they want to make it. I'm telling you, there were three out of 20. And those big brands with all the money, I think Justin's is one of them, I think is a good one to use. And it's full of oils and all of this crap that's in regular... I might as well just go get the fucking and enjoy myself. You know what I mean? What's the difference? A little bit more hydrogenated oil and maybe a little bit more sugar. But these are full of all these other palm oils and every other oil I've never even heard of that's tricky.

I've heard of all of it, right? And it's just like, what the hell? I mean, I go look for the grinder and just grind it myself. Yeah, totally. You can't screw that well unless the peanut- He roast it, whatever.

He wrote it with a sugar-coated things, whatever.

But literally, it's like My friends, Rob and Randy, the Happy Healthy Guys, they have this saying, and it's called surf, and it's just simply eat real food. It's a great little thing to live by. I swear to you, it's We often complicate things. I do it, too. We make things a hell of a lot more complicated than they need to be. You know what's part of the problem is, is people that are really well-intended, but they start making people scared of everything, and people give up.

Yes.

It's overcomplicating and almost, I hate to say fear mongering, but it comes across. There's some of that.

Absolutely.

But you do that, and then people get so distressed and don't know what to do, they just like, screw it because they can't be telling the truth. We need rational explanation. When you can just be rational and just go, Look, this is what it is.

To this day, I still don't understand when people are like, Well, but why should I be eating warm meats? I'm like, But you're taking some synthetic vitamin. You're not questioning that. Why would you question Mother Nature?

I don't get it.

Like, literally, this is given to us. These animals are... The sun feeds the grass, the grass feeds the cow. We cannot process the grass, the cow with its four stomachs can. Right. And they can absorb all those nutrients. And then now they're getting the sun, the grass.

You know what it is? You know exactly what it is, James. It's that these meats in When they're pure form, like when they're grass-fed and everything, you see how good they are for you. But when they're pumping them full of all of this crap and all of this whatever grain and steroids and all of this convoluted garbage, glyphosate, I can go on and on. That's the problem. That's why people then go, Oh, that gave me X, Y, Z on my blood panel or gave me this or that, because it's not how it's intended to be eaten. That's part of the problem. Then the stuff that is intended to be eating, they make it very expensive for people.

Yeah, no doubt. Talk about not honoring the animal, being disrespectful of the cycle life. When you take... Now, people are going to think I'm joking or lying about this, and I'm not. I went to a Wyoming slaughterhouse, and I had heard this, but I straight out talked to the guy who was running the facility, and I said, What are you guys doing with the parts of the animal you're not selling? Are they going to zoos? Are they going to agriculture? Agriculture. What is happening with it? He said, Well, we actually throw it out. I said, So what? How much of the animals are? He's like, It's about 50%, 49%. I was like, You're throwing it out. He's like, Well, we don't have This facility is older. It's not set up to utilize those pieces, and they're not in our asset plan. It's like it's not set up in the supply chain. So think about that as a business owner. So Your job is to raise cattle to then sell it to the world so you can feed the world. 50% of it or whatever percentage, a large % of it is just getting thrown out.

That is the most environmental, just inhumane thing to do. If you think about how this Homo sapiens body was designed, remember, 300,000 years versus the '60s, '70, right? Would we have ever, ever back in the day, killed an animal and only taken the rib eye? No. That is insanity. That is the most privileged way of thinking I've ever heard. It's so ignorant. Yeah.

I mean, on top of the financial idiocy, it's cruel.

Exactly. You would have, let's say, a tribe of 20-ish people, right? Your hunters would go out. They would probably fast because when you fast, as anyone that's ever fasted knows, your sense is sharpened, right? It's the best way to hunt. You're hunting like that. You kill the animal. Now you need to replenish your stores. What's the first thing you're going to eat right there? Probably the liver or the heart. And you're going to eat it raw, probably. Right? So right there. So I'm almost also trying to reiterate people like, well, but I eat rib eye and I eat liver, I'm like, Dude, we're not designed to do that. We're designed to eat the whole animal, and you're getting nutrients in different ways from the whole animal. And with the advent of fire, you can break down different parts of the animals in ways and get those nutrients. That is what I believe God or Mother Nature designed it that way. We've never meant to isolate things. As humans, we are opportunistic. This idea that we would be in an environment and only use a part of it. It's like, no, no. If it was growing strawberries, you ate strawberries.

If it had animal, you ate animal. If there were fish, you ate fish. We were whatever we could get our hands on, we ate. That was edible, right? Yeah. So this idea that we eat in isolation is false. If those hunters brought back that animal, they'd already eaten the liver, let's say. So where are the pregnant people getting their iron? Where are they getting it all? The folate. Well, the spleen, for example, is something like five times higher hem iron than even the liver. The pancreas has natural digestive enzyme. People that are taking pineapple enzymes, dude, pancreus is in pluck. Just get some pancreus somehow, open up a capsule, whatever you do, You get that in your diet, and now you're getting it from Mother Nature instead of some isolated thing that they did in a laboratory. But Mother Nature did supply. We just got to eat it. I'm about, Dude, let's not split hairs. I don't care how you eat it. Let's just get in your diet. I know that if it's delicious and it's easy, you'll do it. Yeah, of course. That's all I'm here to do.

You're making it easier for people to purchase it, to use it, to stomach it if they have their problem. I mean, you're cover in all the bases. You're overcoming basically every obstacle and hurdle one would have when trying to eat these.

People tell me that, particularly women, but they'll tell me that they have a gag reflex when they try to eat liver, but they don't have that with this.

Yeah, that's mental, too. But yeah, you're not going to get any reflex with this.

Because we're messing. I get it. A lot of people focus so much on flavor. If you think about human nature, we're actually more texture hounds. When we eat chips, for example, are you chasing the flavor or the crunch? That's true. You taste the flavor for the first two or three chips. Thereafter, your tastefuls are blown out and you're just chasing the crunch. We are texture hounds. When I used to go to clients and work with them, the first question I asked would be, talk to me about the foods that you gravitate towards when you are having a bad day. Or what did you gravitate towards when you were a kid? I want to know where you emotionally go. Usually, it's creamy, fluffy, crunchy. Then once you get the texture down, now I could cook for anyone. I could cook you healthy food and you'll eat it. I can take, Oh, I didn't like Brussels Sprouts because they were over-cooked and slimy or they were soft. I'm like, Great. I'm going to broil. I'm going to coat them in some fat, and then I'm going to broil them or bake them, and they'll get crispy like chips.

Then you're like, Oh, dude, this is so good. I can It gets you to eat anything if I know your texture.

Like I said, I have done that with so many foods. We just did it with artichokes, I don't know, a month ago.

And it grill them? Have you ever done that?

I don't know. You'd have to ask my wife how she did them. However the hell she did them, I said, Just keep buying it. I don't care. I would see the word artichoke, have zero clue what it tastes like, and be like, I want that without artichokes. And then- You're focusing on the choke.

Yes.

Well, one day I said, What is that shit you're eating? And She's like, What do you mean? It's artichokes. I said, Just let me taste it. I got into the mode of finally just tasting everything. That's when my world's opened up. Now I love everything.

Dude, the artichoke is hilarious. Have you ever seen an artichoke growing? Oh, yeah. It's the most bizarre. What I think about sometimes is, who is the first person that figured that one out? Really, because who looked at that plant and said, I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to take that top part and I'm going to boil it for an hour and then eat.

It's like, who Who the hell came up with that?

It's the most bizarre.

It's got to be one of the most intricate foods to actually eat and make that I've ever seen.

Yeah, and you can't just eat it raw. No. I don't know how they figured it out, but that one's hilarious to me.

I swear to you, I missed out on so many years. I still keep saying because I literally cook every single damn thing in Kerry Gold butter now. I am so mad at myself for the past 20 years of suffering of thinking that I was going to get fat eating butter. Now I'm thinner and more cut than I've ever been, aside from I have a thyroid use, seriously. I eat a thousand some more calories than I was having, literally. But it's all... I do a really higher fat diet now, so it's like... Like keto style? Well, I don't go complete keto. I'm not scared to death of carbs, but I keep them lower because with some heart things, higher carb is not a great idea. I do about 130 grams of fat, about 240 protein, and a little under 100 carbs, and I'm just thriving on it, man. Like, literally. Like 43% fat if I'm getting right down to this 40% protein rest carb.

But you're listening. You're listening to your body. Everything. Obviously, you're testing, but you're listening.

My HDL has always been in the '40s my whole life. Like always in the '40s, maybe close to '50. The last time I checked it, it was 79. So I mean, literally. Now, my LDL and stuff did go up. I'm not going to act like that didn't, but that's from the higher fats. But every single thing that I drew on my blood panel this The last one I just took was the best it's been almost damn near ever. You do have to sacrifice a little in the LDL, but you need LDL. It's been because of the statin industry, it's been blown into our heads that we don't need that, which you do. The things you need to look for more on the Apo B side, the LP little A side, and things you got to be aware of. Not saying you want 500 LDL, but the LDL and the cholesterol that you get is important. Our cell membranes are made of fats.

This is a question I always ask people because to me, this is part of listening your body. To me, it's possibly one of the best ways to know if something's working is how you're pooping. How is it leaving your body? Are you consistent? Are you this or that?

It's like same damn time every day. There you go. It's clean. It's always super clean. When I was doing that low fat and starving, it was so irregular and so just That's comfortable.

That's communication. That's information. I started recently. I'm definitely going more carnival right now. But what I'm doing differently is I'm only doing fermented vegetables, cultured vegetables. There you go. I feel fantastic.

What are some that you're having? Like kimchi, sauerkrauts.

Yeah, kimchi, sauerkrauts, and pickles as well. But the key, though, is the way that you would do these things unnaturally is using vinegar. You want to look for cultured products that are truly fermented. If it's fermented, it's going to be more natural. But they're just using salt or just what's in the air. Bill and I, Bill Schindler, I brought up earlier, he and I agree on this. It's like a lot of people focus on the what. Like, what are you eating? But what's not always in the conversation, which we think about because we both cook, is what about the how? Because when we talk about if your digestion The digestion system got smaller, meaning that you can't digest these things. Because a lot of influencers are like, Stay away from kale. Stay away from this. They're saying, This is bad. But it's like, well, is that bad or is it just the way you're preparing it? If you're eating it raw, maybe that's not bad. But when we got this bigger brain and we got the smaller digestive system, what we gained with the brain is now that we have the knowledge and the tools to make the digestion outside of our body.

Yeah. That's what fermentation is and culturing. Oh, yeah. So you can preserve dairy. You can do things with fermentation and culturing. You can take a vegetable that is not going to be good raw or won't even be digestible, but yet when you ferment it, it's completely digestible.

Old Dr. Gundry beat it into my head about the bitter is better thing because I've interviewed him so many times and talked to him, but he's big on the fermented foods. We talked about it in detail because they have a pretty key role in fixing leaky gut issues. Well, think about our flavors, our tastes.

There's four that we grew up learning, which is salty, sweet, bitter, sour.

Yep, there you go.

There's a fifth that they discovered in the '90s. That's umami that was in Japan. Then they think there's a sixth. It's not talked about as much, but it makes sense. It's like when something is rancid, it has a flavor. That's probably a protecting. Just like I said earlier, if it's going to kill me. That probably has its unique taste so that we don't eat it. It's our body communicating, Don't eat this. But when you think about all those tastes have a role. What does salt represent? Well, hydration. You need to know what's salty in a food. What is umami? Umami is protein. Mushrooms have umami, meat has umami, organs have it. These flavors, bitters have a role. Sour has a role. What I find is a lot of times people are not thinking about these or they're thinking about them too innocently. I'm like, Okay, let's talk about picky Eater, for example. What flavors are only focused on in a Picky Eater? Well, if they're American, it's probably salty sweet.

I was going to say.

That means that that's where their palate is basically calibrated to just focus on salt sweet. So if something's bitter, it's gross to them. If something is not sweet, it's gross. That's why Skippy was so good when they were kids. Then the natural stuff tastes gross, but now because your palate's recalibrated, the natural stuff tastes right. Really good. The other stuff tastes gross. I'm always telling people the way to fix or to get a picky eater to be more adventurous is you got to introduce those other flavors, but you don't have to go all in. This is really important in general, my whole principle, even with pluck of microdosing frequently, cumulative effect. I'm all about, let's focus on how frequently you eat these healthy foods, not about how much you This is the same quality as in America, we always think, Oh, go big or go home. I'm like, But that's not how we are as humans. Whenever anything is extreme, we fall off of it. We are brushing your teeth works because it's two minutes a day, not two hours. If it was two hours, it'd be a lot of funky teeth out there. Intimacy, even.

I always joke, Okay, if I were trying to work on anything in the human body or someone's character, let's just say they have an issue with Well, how are you going to move their intimacy needle? Are you going to say, Okay, I want you to hug someone, to hold them for an entire hour? That's going to move. That's not going to work. It's not going to work. No. But if I said, Okay, I want you just 30 seconds every day, I want you to just sit in front of someone and stare in their eyes. That's all you got to do. Just be close to them. Every week, I want you to take a step closer, but you don't have to do more than 30 seconds. We can work on anything when it's in small doses, and we can sustain it. That's the problem. I'm all about that. I don't care if it's healthy. I want to know what is sustainable. That's it. I say focus on frequency. But I brought this up, though, more so because I was talking about I went to a pluck because I was trying to equate this. I lost it.

But the point is, though, is that I really do try to think about human nature as well. I'm not just thinking about the what. I'm talking about the how. Is as well. Not only how does it not only work outside our body, but how does it work inside our body, but also how does it work with my human nature. I think we have to consider all of those things. I agree.

We're almost out of time, and we didn't get to talk about Shark Tank. Oh, jeez. We got just three, four minutes. If anybody out there isn't aware, Fluck was on Shark Tank. That was October eighth, wasn't it? Eighth? Yeah. It was just recently. I mean, Shark Tank has been around forever. I have watched Shark Tank so many times that I know so much about it. I gather what you went through. Just real quickly, how nerve-wracking was it? Did you feel pressure? How was the pressure? Convey it from what it looks like on TV and how split second and how quick you have to be and what that felt like. I just want to know.

Yeah, they cut it, obviously. I mean, it's like you film about... Everyone's probably a little different, but it's about 45 minutes. Oh, and they're cutting it down to seven or eight. So they definitely intensify it even more so, but it is intense. There's no doubt it's intense. You are basically trying to navigate what are the points I'm trying to get across to them, but what am I also trying? I'm also trying to make sure that it's exciting enough because they film more people than they show. If it's not good TV, you ain't getting shown. Oh, wow. Okay. You got to make a good TV.

You go film, and then they let you know, Hey, we're going to use you on TV. You don't You don't know.

No, the whole process, and there's a lot I can't talk about because you have to sign a day. Yeah, of course. But I don't think this is to be expected, that through the whole process, nothing is ever expected. You're passing go and hoping that whatever assignment they just gave you, that you get to the next level. Even after you filmed it, you still don't know. When we went to film, we got told three weeks before it was going to film, Hey, you're going to air. I'm just so grateful we filmed. To your point, Shark Tank, and I said this, I don't think they showed it, but at the end when they interview, I straight up said, I said, Look, I just feel grateful. Shark Tank, this is their 17th season. I know. It's crazy. They have done more for business and entrepreneurs. I know people that watch it with their kids. It is shaping more lives than anything I can think of, and it deserves all the accolades.

You know how many hours of cardio that I just even watched old ones? Then I learn. I watch it for two reasons. One is to see joy in people and to see them get their lives made. Two is to learn. You know what I mean? It's not even for the entertainment. It's for those two things. I want to see people overjoyed, feeling good, having something happen that they never dreamed of happening. I want to see that. I want to feel that. I want to feel what they're feeling with them. Two, I just want to learn.

Well, I think you're going to appreciate this because you're a man of faith. I'm in my about fifth year running Pluck. Since I created it, every single year, multiple people would tell me, You got to be on Shark Tank. Oh, my God, this would be perfect. Everybody Every time I was like, No, it doesn't feel right. Because I didn't need it for my ego. I'm also very aware that when I started Pluck, and even still now, we're ahead of the game. Everyone's not fully there yet. They're getting there, but not everyone's on board with Oregon Meets yet. I know that we're ahead of the curve. Yeah, of course. I just never thought it was the right time. Well, earlier this year, I just suddenly had this epiphany, and I was like, You know what? This is bigger than me. This is a movement, and that's exactly what we've been talking about, this nose to tail movement, bringing people back to, We got to listen to our bodies, and we got to eat as Mother Nature intended, and then make decisions from there, not eat crap and then wonder why we're sick and then never go back to Mother Nature.

We got to start with those foundations, those ancestral foundations. I was like, This is about the movement, and it's bigger than me. I want to go on Shark Tank so that I can promote the movement. If they buy Pluck or whatever or gets invested, I don't care. It's about the mission. I said that, and then I I went and told my wife that. Then, no joke, three days later, I got an email from one of the producers saying, I saw your ad. We'd love to have a meeting with you and invite you to come and apply on Shark Tank. I didn't even know they did that. They do it I heard it's 20% of business they actually reach out to, and then 80% are applying. But I got reached out to, and I cannot help but think that was divine. It had to. It was the shift of me going, this is not about ego, it's mission.

We'll definitely do more of this for sure. But I want to make sure that everybody knows where to find you. I also want to give everybody the opportunity. James is giving me a code for you for 20% off for watching. It's just Jameli. Very easy to use. So just go to pluck. Com. Eatpluck. Eatpluck.

Because we're all about eating. That's right. Okay. Not swallowing. Beautiful.

So eatPluck and then follow you on Instagram?

Yeah, we're on all socials at eatpluck. Then if you want to follow me personally, it's @chefjamesbury.

Sweet. Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for coming out here with me. A pleasure. I really enjoyed every last second of this, man. I really did. We got to do it again for sure.

No doubt.

Awesome. All right, everybody. Well, that wraps up another one. Make sure you go check my man James out. Support him. Take care of yourself. This is a perfect way to do it. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jameli and James Berry signing off.