Transcript of Episode #171: “My Heart Test Was Perfect and Then I Had a HEART ATTACK!” - Featuring Daniel Trevor New

60% of the people who have a deadly first heart attack, their very first symptom of even having heart disease was their own death. I had just passed a cardiac stress test with flying colors, and I had just gotten a wonderful bill, glowing bill of health from my trusted physicians. And then I had a heart attack and almost died. It's like, what? There's a philosophy that goes, a cured patient is a lost customer. Doctors have saved my life, so I don't want to badmouth all of them, but they're in a system. They were taught in pharma-funded medical schools, and Big Pharma only wants them with a prescription pad in one hand and a scalpel or whatever tool theirs is in the other. I decided to dive into the science to figure out how could this happen to me. And what I discovered absolutely just blew my mind.

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Go to timeline.com/jameli to take the longevity quiz and get your free gummies. That's timeline.com/jameli. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli Podcast. So, I was having a pre-podcast discussion with my friend here because we can go on and on and on. I thought, man, we better click the record button, not miss out on all the things we're getting into. So, my friend here has done quite a bit of work that I just find to be not just fascinating but so impactful. And it is one of those things to me that's soothing to the soul to see somebody that has taken some things that they've gone through and made it basically his life work to try to help people and get messaging out. He's not a fearmonger or someone that speaks to try to make content or anything of the above. He's a, a person that's went through everything that he's discussed and he's put it into text and spoken with some of the most world-renowned and brilliant people all over the world. He is a citizen scientist and a serial entrepreneur, and he's created several startup businesses from scratch. And he's also created and marketed anti-aging nutraceutical products.

And he's also been an executive producing national TV and radio infomercials. But the real reason that I have him here today is not for all of that, is for this book right here, this beauty, this gem. It's called The Unholy Trinity. And we're going to go through everything because he's a heart attack survivor turned wellness warrior. I consider him a close friend. Welcome everybody, Daniel Treber.

Hey, all right. Dylan G, how are thee? Oh man, I just love your channel and everything else. It's just everything that you're doing is, is really outstanding and really helping mankind. And you're right. I am a heart attack survivor turned wellness warrior because, well, that's what led to the book actually, because I, what happened to me is this. I had just passed a cardiac stress test with flying colors. And I had just gotten a, a wonderful bill, clean bill of health, glowing bill of health from my trusted physicians. And then I had a heart attack and almost died. It's like, what, what did they miss? And that's due to basically, in a nutshell, inadequate or what I call standard tests that most doctors don't know to do.

Mm-hmm.

Or that's what they're doing. But, and there's no symptoms either. It's like, you know, these diseases of modernity, there's just no symptoms. I mean, by the time you have symptoms, you're way down the road and it's a long road back and check out this stat, Dylan. 60% of the people who have a deadly first heart attack, their very first symptom of even having heart disease was their own death. It's like, it's insane. Yeah. And that's why, and since heart disease is the biggest killer, you know, sudden cardiac arrest is like the biggest killer of mankind. I thought I, since I've studied technical, highly technical data all my life, I decided to dive into the science to figure out how could this happen to me and what, and what I discovered absolutely, it just blew my mind and I mean, the amount of corruption and the, it's just, it's just amazing. It just blew my mind. I thought I have to share this with my brother and sister human beings, right? So they don't run into what I did because I was lucky. I survived, right? I survived. I wrote this book. Thank you. Thank me for writing a book and not dying.

And then, uh, you know, so I took the deep dive and I think of the book as 3 things actually. And thank you for, again, for It's Unholy Trinity, subtitle, How Carbs, Sugar, and Oils Make Us Fat, Sick, and Addicted, and How to Escape Their Grip, which is very important. You know, the addiction part, but there's no symptoms and you really gotta stay on top of this stuff. But yeah, so the addiction part is really serious cuz a lot of people just, they're, the addiction comes from the word addictus, meaning slave. It's the Latin addictus, meaning slave. So we've all become slaves to these particular things, the dopamine, and we need that. stimulation. We all get triggered. We're watching cable TV and we see the pizza being pulled out of the, you know, with the string and all that. It's so, it's just pretty wild. So we get triggered all the time and it's, you know, it's such a shame. And so that's why I want to thank you for having me on so I can help spread some of the word of how I researched and studied this. And I'll tell you about my 4 comorbidities that they missed.

4.

You know, how could they miss it? You know, anyway, and by the way, those, the tests are very important. I have 'em up on my website, danieltrever.com. You can even buy them there. I made a deal with Quest Diagnostics. They have thousands of locations all around the country, United States only. And I'm not selling anything. Read about them, write them down, take them to your doctor, you know, buy them there or not. It's up to you, but read them and take them, write them down, take them to your doctor. And I was talking about this with Anthony Chaffee. And if you could, you got to be careful when you take them to the doctor, say, hey doc, I was watching Dylan Gemelli's podcasts and on YouTube, and I heard about these tests and I want them. And then he might go, oh, you don't need that. You're fine.

Yeah.

You don't need that. You're fine. The only reason he's saying that is cuz he doesn't know what it is. Wouldn't know how to analyze your results anyway. And the last thing doctors want to get from their patients is homework.

Right.

They don't want homework, you know, and I feel for them too. I, you know, doctors have saved my life, so I don't, I don't want to badmouth all of them or, but they're in a system or they're working in an area that just, you know, they gotta keep the, you know, 10, 15 minutes and you're out the door and you got a prescription. And, you know, they were taught in pharma-funded medical schools and big pharma only wants them, you know, with a prescription pad in one hand and a scalpel or whatever tool theirs is in the other. So it's drugs and procedures and drugs and procedures and more drugs and more procedures. So it's unfortunate that way, but yeah, find out the tests. And I was so fortunate that, you know, when I first had the heart attack, I, I went to Google University and YouTube University and PubMed. I found all these geniuses on the cutting edge of modern metabolic health, right? I didn't know anything about that. I thought I was just listening. I would get my nutritional information from the news, you know, one week coffee's bad, one week coffee's good, all these different things.

So I don't know. I was just confused as everybody else. And, and so I really took a deep dive in all that. And I found all these studies in PubMed. I just immersed myself there. And I was fortunate. I found this guy, his name was Dr. Ford Brewer, and he has taught and trained thousands of doctors at Johns Hopkins. So he, you know, and he's brilliant at all the testing. In fact, he, he wrote a book, a bestseller, Prevention Myths: Why Stress Tests Can't Predict Your Heart Attack and Which Tests Do.

Mm-hmm.

So I go, well, I gotta look at this, you know? So I was watching his videos and then I wound up reaching out to him. I said, Hey doc, I'm writing this book. And would you be interested in writing a chapter in my book that delineates what are the most important blood labs and scans that anyone can get online without even needing a doctor's prescription? That way you yourself can find out if you've got something lurking, ready to pounce, or you're just fine, or somewhere in between that, hey, you need to pay some attention to this because again, heart disease is our biggest killer. Heart disease and stroke. Heart disease is the biggest killer. Strokes are the number one cause of permanent disability where you, you know, you can't walk, you can't talk, you're sometimes you can't even communicate. I mean, I know of a person who had the stroke and he's stuck in a wheelchair, but he can't, he's stuck in that body to the rest of his life because he can't talk. He can't understand, you know? So it's, it's really something that everybody, I don't mean to scare anybody, but it's something you really gotta pay attention to.

And that's, he, that turned out to be my chapter 22, which Dr. Ford calls. Don't guess, test. Yeah. So we get in that. So I'm big on testing.

You know, it's funny because a lot of the people that helped you with your book or gave you compliments and their, you know, their words that you're talking about are some of the people when I found some things on my heart, Ford Brewer was one of the first people that kept popping up about Lp facts. And yeah, the, the, the people that you're mentioning, you know, Dr. Berg and all of these guys, they're the ones that were talking about the obscure, the, and I I hate to call it obscure testing because these should be the standard tests, but the ApoB test, the Lp, the particle sizes, they are obscure tests because that's how they're categorized. And if you don't know to go get those tests, you're never going to see those results and never get the real markers that you need. You're going to get the basic panels, right? Just like the basic tests. And the stress test, like you said, doesn't tell you a whole lot. It gives you very minimal information and data. And I learned all of this through my own work. And what I'm glad that you're doing is teaching people to take control themselves.

And I'm not going to badmouth any doctors. They kind of do what they're taught. So you can't really fault them.

Well, yeah, I understand really, especially what I call 24-hour heroes. Yeah. They're in our ERs and our trauma units. They're setting our bones and suturing up our wounds and removing bullets and steering wheels from our chest. I mean, I love all of them. You know, my older daughter, Chloe, she works in the ER. And so I talk about this stuff all the time. She, she sees some wild things, I'll tell you. But yeah, so I'm familiar with all that. So again, I can't, it's just that when they're working in a, like a hospital system or whatever, and they have bosses and they, they have to do things within the confines of medical standard of care. And, you know, if you don't prescribe a cholesterol statin and they're, you know, somebody's going to come down on you and that kind of thing. It just becomes part of their model. And one of their, what I call now I'm supposed tos.

Did you see that, that data that just came out and it said, given the new cholesterol numbers that just came out, 21 million more people now just qualified to be put on a statin by the numbers that they changed. Did you see that? I just saw it.

Yeah, I covered that. I covered that. There, there's a couple of studies like that. I mean, normal cholesterol, like in 1950 was about 300.

Yeah.

And then they lowered it to 260 or 250 and then they kept lowering it. Now it's 200 or below. And you know, the fact of it is, People with high cholesterol live the longest and people with low cholesterol die much earlier and usually of some form of cancer. It's just all backwards. Mm-hmm. It's just insane. But there are billions and billions of dollars that are made through the statins, which is their biggest cash cow. I mean, that's why I, I think that of, you know, carb, sugar, and oils, the unholy trinity. The other unholy trinity is big food, big pharma, and big medicine. It's just 'cause it's wild. You see, you know, there's a philosophy that goes, a cured patient is a lost customer. I mean, it's sad to say, but I even have, I think it's in chapter 8. I talk about Goldman Sachs. They had one of their analysts do a white paper. I forget what the name of it, but it was about creating cures is not good for the bottom line. You know, the profits, you know, cause we have shareholders, right? And the example that they gave was this, the big big pharma company called Gilead Sciences, right?

And they came up several years ago, came up with this blockbuster drug that had a 99% cure rate for hepatitis C. And when it first came out, it was like $13 billion or something like that. And then within a couple of years, the stock was down, I don't know, 75%, and it continued its descent. So although these cures are good for the society, and they even wrote this in the, in the, in the article, they're not good for the bottom line, the shareholders. What they would rather have had them do is create a pill that the patient could take once or twice a day for the rest of their life, or an infusion or an injection. That way the profit model extends to the entire lifetime of the patient. We don't want no cures around here. It's just sickening.

It really is. It, it, I don't try to get angry about anything more, but it's just the most disappointing and disheartening thing. Like, You know, in existence to do that to fellow men and women and to really essentially want them to be sick for your own benefit when there's multitudes of things that are always going to be needed that we need that you could create and make. I mean, there is always going to be disease and illness that you can help to prevent instead of going into the treatment method. How about we go to the prevention way and actually help people?

Yes. There you go. Prevention. That's it. That's the whole, but there's no money in prevention. You know, in fact, Johns Hopkins, Ford Brewer, he ran the only prevention school in the world. It was a great one. It was a good one. He ran the whole, that's how he taught thousands of doctors, but doctors, again, they graduate and they go off into a system and they're just, you know, that's just the way it is. And then it's just, you know, you probably know this. Back in the '80s, mid to late '80s, people were stopping listening to the Surgeon General and they stopped, were stopping to smoke. Right.

Mm-hmm.

there were, everybody was lighting up and that kind of thing. But then they, they were listening to the dangers of cancer and all that. And so big tobacco, well, what are we going to do? So big tobacco, they bought up the big food companies. They bought Kraft, Nabisco, General Foods, Post, and so on. And they brought the addiction scientists from big tobacco over to big food. And, you know, it's like, these are people who are sitting in their labs and, and conference rooms around the world thinking, okay, so how do we, what ingredients do we put in our products so they eat the whole bag instead of half the bag? I mean, when you and I go into a supermarket, we, we just assume we're safe that if any of this stuff were bad for me, it wouldn't be for sale because attorneys would get involved, but it's a slow death. It's a very slow death.

I started to do work with the animal field now too, because I'm a huge animal lover and the same thing. Do you know Mars owns like 70, 80% of all the pet foods, like all the big name brands. And they do the same thing with the kibble that they put in there. And that's why the animals will not, they have such a hard time stopping because there's addictive foods in there too. And that's why.

Yeah. Yeah. It's unbelievable. It is. That's a whole, speaking of addiction, oh my God, check this out. And when I say carbs, you know, see, my problem was, you know, I was on with Ken Berry and he says, hey Daniel, so what was your diet like before you had the heart attack? Were you sitting on the sofa eating Cheetos and Fritos and drinking Coca-Cola? I said, no, I knew enough not to do that, but my downfall, I was totally bought into the propaganda and the bullshit of heart-healthy whole grains. I didn't know that these whole grains, they turn into sugar when you ingest them. I didn't know any of that. And they've got the high fructose corn syrup, HFCS, and oh my God. And so I, that was one of my other comorbidities insofar as I was totally sold on that because in the morning I'd have a big bowl of granola, which had to have 60 or 70 grams of carbohydrates. And then, you know, right there, probably with the HFCS, high glucose, and, you know, so I was getting so many carbohydrates that I became type 2 diabetic. I was amongst the 1% of the population that became, that can be on the slim side, but still be out of control type 2 diabetic.

And I didn't know, 'cause I didn't know they don't do these tests. See, doctors, another study out of Johns Hopkins discovered, this is shocking too. They discovered that 74% of doctors, now we're talking General practitioners, family physicians, internists, and cardiologists.

Hmm.

74% do not know how to properly diagnose and test for prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. It's like, what? That's our biggest epidemic because that's, that's the source root cause of your heart attacks, strokes, eye disease, you know, cataracts and blindness, Alzheimer's. The list goes on. You know, it's just Alzheimer's now they're calling it type 3 diabetes. And so I had that and that was the source root cause of my heart disease. And so I figured that out because I didn't know know about all these grains turning into sugar in your body. Because see, what doctors do is they'll test your fasting blood glucose and your fasting A1C, and there's tens of millions of people that can test normal for those 2 and still be type 2 diabetic. And that was me. And so they don't do this other one called the OGTT with insulin, oral glucose tolerance test with insulin.

Okay.

But in the book it's called the most important health test you've never had. Right? And so even And Dr. Brewer, his chapter 22, he goes into that. He says over 90% of cardiovascular disease is due to faulty glucose metabolism. Your body can't digest these grains and the sugars because carbohydrates is also sugar too. But you know, I was stuck on the grains part. You got to get this OGTT with it. Again, on my website, go there and read about it, why it's so important, what it does. I have diagrams and so forth. They can check it out. And again, you can write it down, take it to your doctor if you want to use your insurance I think it's $80 or something like that on my website. But please, I want people to get these tests because that way you're out of mystery. Because like I said, there's no symptoms. These things creak, creak up to creep up on you and, and we gotta be careful.

Yeah. So like I'm in the chapter right here looking in the, the list to break down. I generally get most of these tests myself, but I see some even that I'm missing. And this is a really good reference guide to people because these are really important tests to get an idea of potential plaque in your arteries and to to really see if you're at risk of cardiovascular disease. And so I would definitely look into those. I get Cardiac IQ panels, which are pretty comprehensive, but still missing a few of those.

So, yeah, well, no, that's important. You had already mentioned the, you know, some of 'em already in our beginning of our talk and like the, it's either called the NMR lipo profile or the lipofraction radi— lipofraction test. I got it up on our website. I mean, I'm going blank on the, the whole name there. But anyway, because doctors get so hung up on LDL, LDL, they don't know that there's pattern A and there's pattern B. Pattern A is the light, fluffy, buoyant, large, benign kind of just bounces around. The pattern B is the small, dense LDL particle that can invade the artery wall. This is what happens. I mean, we eat the grains and they— because the grain makes more of the small, dense LDL particles. They can invade the artery wall through a process known as cyto— cyto— transocytosis. There we go. Excuse me. I'm having a senior moment anyway. So then they get, then they store in this place called the intima-media space. And then they build up that we start taking friendly fire from the immune systems with cytokines and myo, all kinds of wild stuff starts to attack it and it eats it and it creates this soft inflamed vulnerable plaque.

And when that plaque ruptures through an already damaged endothelial, you know, the lining of the arteries, it spills into the lumen where the blood flows, touches blood, creates a clot, breaks off, goes downstream, so to speak. And if it goes to your heart, you have a heart attack. If it goes to your brain, you have a stroke. It's just, that's why it's just so dangerous. And the grains are behind a lot of that. And let me, let me go back a little bit, 'cause I didn't finish that thought about the addiction part. See, back in chapter 10, I have this chapter that's called, Are You a Wheat Addict? And the reason for that is, yeah, I have a lot of graphs and pictures and images and that kind of thing. I wanna make, give it an easier time for the reader to get through it. And I have a picture of a guy. Well, it's his skull. He's 100,000 years old, right? And he's got perfect teeth. And the anthropologist and bioarchaeologist that studied it said he, you know, he was just in great shape and all that. And, and then when they started exhuming bodies after that, going towards the present, they started finding all these new diseases, missing teeth, cavities.

Men shrunk 5 inches, women shrunk 3 inches. It was just a disaster. And that was only about 9,000 or 10,000 years ago, which is the dawn of agricultural society when we went from hunter-gatherers to more growing our own crops or the green grains as, as you know, we're talking about here and growing, having some of their own animals, raising the pigs and the chickens and that kind of thing. And so what happened, let me get to this, is in the late '60s, early '70s, big ag came up with this. They wanted to get more out of their crops.

Mm-hmm.

How do we get a more bountiful crop? And so they had these 2 processes. One was chemical mutagenesis and the other was radiation mutagenesis. What does that do? That amps up this chemical called gliadin, G-L-I-A-D-I-N, gliadin. And what does that do? That attaches to the opiate receptors of the brain, the same opiate receptors as morphine and heroin. I mean, it doesn't get you high or relieve pain, but its expression is to make you crave more of the things that have wheat in it. in them, like the bread, pasta, cereal, waffles, pancakes, chips, pretzels, rolls, pizza, tortillas, and on and on that way. And check out this stat, Dylan. This is, this is just when big food found out about this, they started putting it everything.

Yeah.

The average supermarket has 60,000 products, right? 59,000 have wheat or some form of wheat in them. It's like, what? I mean, they are really coming after our opiate receptors. Let me just put it that way. And next time you're near the candy aisle, go down there. Twizzlers, the candy, second ingredient, wheat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy. You know, I wanna make a point too, to people when we talk about some of these things, cuz we're not on here. We're a couple guys that have gone through this. I, I never was a Mr., oh, I'm gonna start calling everybody out and try to get clicks and try to scare everybody and tell 'em that, you know, this is so bad and everybody that does this is so bad. I went through it and you went through it. I had to dig to find that I needed to get the tests I did. I was the one that said, I wanna LP little a test. My doctor said, oh, well, we can, but you're going to test that once and it's not going to go down and you're just kind of stuck with it, which I didn't accept. I got the test, had a, like I told you, a terribly high score, and went to Mayo Clinic where they told me that, oh, I'd be fine if I took statins and trying to treat the Lp with what I wanted, which was Repatha, Vascepa, and some natural methods, that, that was going to be bad practice.

And And just take the statin, which actually increases the Lp, mind you. And I was able to—

That's right.

And, but I was able to get that number of 330, which I supposedly was stuck with, down into the 90s, still going down with my bad practice and also improve my other numbers drastically. And they had drained my LDL down to 30-something, like I told you, and I got scared. And, you know, I was going through this fear of fat phase for the, by 15 years. And so I started to switch dietary methods. And, you know, before you know it, every single marker is like, wow, improve HDL from 40s into 80s. All my particle sizes improving, everything improving, no statin. Now I do have some, some medications, but a lot of natural stuff too. And methods and the medications I take, they don't want to write you scripts for. I had to go through hell to get approved for some of these. Like, you, I'm not going to say on air what I had to do.

But you tell me later. You later.

But I had some good doctors that were very aware of the need for Repatha, for Vascepa, to help with what I needed and not put me on the standard bullshit. So I just want to make the point that when you and I talk, or when I talk, I come from a place of I'm just going to tell you what it is, period. I don't care what side of the fence you're on. I don't care about standing firm and going hard one way or the other. I don't give a shit about any of that. I care about facts and truth. That's all I care about. And I know that's all you care about. about. So we're speaking from that realm, not picking sides and being so strong one way or another. That's, that's not what I do or have people come on to do.

No, you do the research. It's just like what I did. The reason, see, I, let me try to tell you about what I needed to have as a backup. My, see, I'm not a doctor. I don't see patients. I'm not a clinician, so I can learn pattern recognition and all that. I, my book has more scientific citations and references than any other health and wellness book in existence. You know, most books still have 100, 200, 300 maybe. And that's good because they, whatever the author is stating, they put a little number there and then you can think, you know, that that's a study that you can, that has verified what he just stated. Mine has 1,227 and that was an extra 200 hours right there. And, but I knew I needed that backup because I knew there were going to be people to say, oh, he's not a doctor, why should I listen to him? And I say, look, don't, none of this is my opinion. None of this is Daniel's opinion.

Mm-hmm.

This research, the only the best tests, the RCTs, randomized controlled trials. And I made sure I didn't pay any attention that had funding from big food, big pharma, big medicine, or big ag, you know? So it's really honest research and you can depend on it. And so I understand how, you know, I know I needed to have that backup and, but you know, you can't negate the study that you've learned and how it, I mean, even though it's what's called an N of 1, if you're getting better, I mean, you know, I first found keto and I got amazing results. And then the more plants I removed from my diet, you know, the better I felt. Number one, number two, my better my labs looked. What more can you ask for? Right? So I wound up at carnivore basically, which is, and there's a misunderstanding. I need to clarify this. A lot of people think carnivore is just, you only eat meat. No, carnivore is animal products only, like eggs, beef, butter, salmon, you know, that kind of thing. But the lion diet is the meat only because lions don't eat eggs or fish. Right.

I mean, so that's, that's the lion diet. So the carnivore is just that. So, and I do have an occasional, you know, some berries, that kind of thing, because it's just, that's, that's what we did naturally. In fact, I was being called out on that with one of these guys. I won't mention the YouTuber, but they said, Daniel, what are you eating those berries for? I said, well, look, first of all, it's not a cup of berries, but I said, look, when you and I were out hunting 3,000 or 13,000 years ago, and we came across some berries that had just come back into season for just a short time, oh my God, we'd tell Uncle Throgmagog and he'd tell the tribe and we'd all go enjoy some berries. I mean, you know, I mean, we didn't think, oh, we're carnivore. We're not allowed to do that. Our A1C is good. We didn't have any of those thoughts. We just, look, life was already brutal enough, right? And if we could enjoy some berries for a little while. So, you know, I have my chapter 22 is maximizing gut health and I cover this L.

reuteri yogurt and how to make it and what the ingredients are and all that. And it's amazing what it does for you. your everything from your skin and your just every, it's what it does for your stomach is amazing. So, yeah. You know, and I add some berries in there, so, you know, just to kind of, 'cause I'm not, not crazy about the taste, but it's so good for your, your gut lining and all like that. So like, you know, but it's, it really does wonders for your skin.

Yeah.

And I should announce to you and your audience that I'm probably the youngest 78-year-old you're going to meet all day today.

Geez.

You know, so, and you know, I don't mean to brag about that, but just, you know, on my website, you can check out my body shots and I'm sure most people are going to say, there's no way that guy's in his 70s. And if anything, what I want to do is, there's, see, there's so many people that I've run into that have kind of given up already. I don't want them to give up. I want, if I can inspire people to go, look, if I was able to go through all this nonsense and you haven't even heard the other 2 comorbidities yet, you can too get it together. You've got to take control and get control of your addictions. And what do you, what do you advise people? As I said, look, make your list if you want to, of the things that you can't live without, right? And just pick the top 2. And your, your job then is to find healthy but delicious substitutes that you can substitute that for. And these days YouTube is a treasure trove of keto, low-carb recipes, that kind of thing that won't stimulate your your blood glucose, cuz that's what it's all about.

Mm-hmm. That's what it's all about. We've been, we never had high glucose levels even a couple hundred years ago. It's, that's why the value of the CGM, as you know, see that people have to understand the 2 most important players in the processing of the food that you put in your mouth. And that's glucose, also known as blood sugar and insulin. You eat something and your glucose goes up, the pancreas senses that and your insulin rises in order to bring it down, keep it in a safe range and that kind of thing. And that's a normal process that goes out on through life. But when we start eating foods that are meant, not meant for human consumption, like the SAD, Standard American Diet, or too frequently, or both, your glucose is up, your insulin is up hour after hour, day after day. Within a couple of weeks, you've got hyperinsulinemia. Hyper, too much insulinemia means in the blood. I know you know that, but hyperinsulinemia, and which then turns into insulin resistance.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Where the cells come to reject or resist the glucose and the insulin because of the overload. There's just way too much. And so, and then sure, not long after that, in the coming months, years or so, you're going to turn on prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. And again, that's the first thing that, that you want to avoid. In fact, that's the first graphic I have in my book in chapter 1, where it has hyperinsulinemia, insulin resistance in the center, and then arrows goes out to all this PCOS, you know, polycystic ovarian system, cataracts and blindness, Alzheimer's, obesity, heart attacks, strokes, and all that kind of thing. So it really is because what happens is, and I've labeled it the gateway disease, 'cause that's where it all starts because it's just very not evolutionarily consistent with how we've evolved over all these many, many millennia, right?

Yeah.

And so, you know, you really gotta pay attention that some people really need, I mean, I tried it for a while. I say, let me test this out to see what this is like. So I got a CGM, this, and for your audience, a continuous glucose monitor. I know, you know what it is. Wear it on the back of your arm or somewhere in your midsection and that, and you connect it to your smartphone. And that way you can see what foods are sending my, peaking my, you know, my sugar way up.

Mm-hmm.

And which ones are, well, I'm getting steady. And so that way you really learn or either do that or get the finger pricks. You know, you gotta do the blood tests, which is only like a $20 kit at the, at the drugstore.

The, the CGM is the real key here because, you know, diet, like a lot of things, and I have been a nutritionist now for 20-some-odd years. I started to study food when I was 11. Unfortunately, as you know, in the '90s, we were taught all wrong, but that's when I started studying, even though it was ass backwards. But what I have found and what most know is that one size fits none. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm certainly of the ilk that we gotta be very careful about about too high of carbs and, you know, overeating fats. Like, some people go so insane one way or the other that there's no balance, and you're not factoring in what kind of activity level somebody has, what kind of conditions they have, how their body responds to needs and necessities of certain nutrients. And so it gets so polarizing and so difficult that people— just like you said, you have some berries and then somebody wants to throw a stone at you or whatever. Who cares? I mean, who cares ultimately? Like, you eat whatever the hell you want, what works for you. It's really a control factor.

And then it's also, there's ways to blunt spikes. You just, like you were talking about, and the data is so important. You know, I got to the, I went from one extreme to the other, Daniel, where it was like, okay, I'm so terrified of fats that I just won't eat any. And then it became, okay, I know how bad I need these and I love 'em, but now I'm eating too much and I've just completely eliminated carbs. But the problem for me is because I'm training so heavily. When I eliminate carbs, it's bad. Like, it's really, really bad if I go too low because then I start having heart rhythm problems. I'm, I'm stripping electrolytes to the point where, because, you know, when you go carb, you really lose a lot of water and it strips out electrolytes if you're not really replenishing. And I train excessively. That's right. And so I've had to balance and I know how to blunt the glucose spike. So when I have a carb, I also always pair it with protein and fats in the same meal to where It, it counteracts, and I've tested it, so I know, okay, this is not hurting me, but it's certainly affect— it's, it's helping me because now I'm not having these problems.

But people don't get the data. They just assume, and then they talk shit and get angry. See, what I like about you is you just explain, and there's no anger, there's no nothing. It's just, here's what I know and here's what I've been through. And that's what I try to do. I always tell people, the angry teacher is not someone you should listen to, you know, like if somebody's getting angry when you ask 'em a question or if you have a differentiating opinion, run, you know, just run. And that's it.

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, you know, there's always solutions to things and yeah, when you are working out and, and you know this cuz you've trained so many athletes and bodybuilders and so forth and you, you, you've done so much of that yourself. You know, another way to lower your glucose after you eat is just take a stroll for 5 or 10 minutes. I don't mean run, I just take a stroll for 5 or 10, leisurely stroll. Or walk. Yes. 5 or 10 minutes and it brings it down or keeps it, you know, that kind of thing. So always, but yeah, still try to avoid the waffles though.

I wish, I wish I could eat those. You know what I would, I would like to go. So your book is How Carbs, Sugar, and Oil. So I want to go down the line here and, and take subsets of these because I think some people may look at that and say, does that mean I can't ever, ever have anything that's carbohydrate, any sugar or any oil whatsoever? Or is it specific ones? Or what is your thought process on each one and what you've gone through? So I would love to go down cuz people love to, to mix words and take things outta context. And I'd like to get your version of what that means on each subset there. So let's start with carbs and work our way in.

Well, carbs is basically, you know, you, you have to know which ones have more than others. Like when I found out, like for example, we were just talking about fruit. Berries are the lowest glycemic and the low lectin, lowest lectins, Right? It broke my heart when I found out that, you know, was it pineapple and watermelon? It's like over 100. It's like, what? It's like, those were my 2 favorites. Right? And so look, you have to do it. If you're going to do it, you got to take that walk or you got to combine it with something else. But there are tricks, but you know, you just have to get the knowledge and then you have to decide, okay, look, I just had my blood labs and this is off. I need to fix this.

this.

And you gotta say to yourself, who's in control here? Me or my taste buds? Right? And so it can be hard sometimes because, you know, we have, most of us have become, well, a lot of us, like I was just like everybody else, become a slave to certain foods. Again, addiction comes from the Latin addictus, meaning slave. And so we have to know which foods are really gonna do that to us and get healthy substitutes for them. So the carbohydrates is, I look at that as mostly the grains because we really gotta stay away from, And especially these days, oh my God, in the last 20, 30, 40 years, big ag, they're spraying everything on them, the glyphosate, and they get the myotoxins and the herbicides, pesticides, fungicides. It's like, and then the animals that we eat, sometimes if we don't get 100% grass-fed, we're getting that in there too, because there's, you know, they have these things called CAFOs, C-A-F-O, concentrated animal farming operations where they have, let's say, this poor cow, cow is in this little stall. We can't even turn around and he eats there and shits there and spends his whole life there.

Yeah.

And they're sedated with these psych drugs and, you know, and it's just awful. So you gotta remember that you gotta be careful. So a lot of these grains that is going into the animals, you gotta be careful of the grains. That's the biggest thing. When I went, when I eliminated wheat and grains from my diet years ago, about 4 years ago, oh my God.

Yeah.

My HDL ran up into the 90s. My triglycerides were down in the 30s. It was like, which is like, you know, incredible. It's like, like Superman levels. So yeah, you really gotta be careful of that with the grains. That's what I mean most. Yeah.

Give me some examples of grains that you're talking about for people so that they're aware.

Well, you ever heard of wheat?

Yeah.

Well, dig this. Most people don't know this either. This blew my mind when I found Wheat raises your blood sugar higher than a Snickers candy bar.

What?

It's like, you know, and if people are paying attention to it, cuz these days they are, I see some cable TV ads and they're all talking about the blood sugar and the CGM and they get a Dexcom G7 or whatever it's called. Mm-hmm. And paying attention to their blood glucose, which is good. I like that. But you gotta remember that one thing, wheat, what's wheat It's in all the way, you know, the bread, the pasta, the cereals. And that was the old pyramid, you know, thankfully they turned it upside down. It's not perfect yet, but still they got, you know, meat and everything like there. And we all bought into the low-fat thing. That was, we can blame Ancel Keys for that in the, in the '50s. You know about him, right?

I'm too well to the point where I just, I don't wish anything bad upon anybody, but I'd love to go back in time and just beat the shit out of him just for what he And I don't, I don't like to say that, but I do.

No, no, no. Listen, it's understandable. It's, I cover him in my first chapter because in the first couple of chapters, I like to tell, show people, how did we get here? How did we get here? I mean, I think of the book as 3 things. One, it's a how-to book on how I reversed the 4 comorbidities. Number 2, it's an exposé on big food, big pharma, big medicine. And number 3, I think of it as a data evaluation and data analysis of this. In 1930, the obesity rate was 1% in the United States. We are now approaching 50% under a mere 100 years.

Crazy.

Never in human history has a population gotten so fat and so sick so fast. You gotta say, what in the hell is happening? When you pull the strings and you do the analysis, you find out that it's the introduction in the 20th century of the carbs, sugar, and seed oils in the amounts and concentrations we've never seen.

Mm-hmm.

It's just, we've never, especially in the last half of the 20th century. I mean, you know, sugar's been around a long time. I mean, it, it, it was invented in India. I found a, a reference. It was, it was mentioned in the, this religious text called the Atharva Veda. And that goes back 1,500 years, something like that. BC. So that's like what, 3,500 years? And then it came, but it was never like Hershey's in 1900 came up with their very first candy bar. I thought, what a way to start a century. And then there was Tootsie Roll and O'Henry and all, they started coming on like that. And the seed oils, oh my God, they weren't even an existence, these vegetable oils until 1865, when they had cottonseed oil from cottonseed farming. And then they started using the other seeds of different vegetables too. And they were considered a toxic waste and they were used as machinery lubricant in the industrial revolution of the late 1800s, early 1900s.

Yeah.

Machinery lubricant and motor oil. And then these 2 guys from Europe came over to Ohio and entrepreneurs and they looked at a bucket of it and it resembled lard, which is what people use to cook with. Right. Which is fine. And they got the bright idea. They say, hey, why don't we bottle it and sell it to people, make some money. Right. So they made this product called— this is William Procter and James Gamble, Procter& Gamble. Right. Yeah. So they came up with this product called Crisco and it started flying off the shelves in 1911. And wouldn't you know, in 1912, The very first medically recorded heart attack took place. What a coinkydink, right? And then heart disease and, you know, cancer wasn't even like a thing as they say until the '30s. And they became the biggest killers by the, by the '40s. And they, that continues to this day, heart attacks and cancer, that kind of thing, heart disease and cancer. But yeah, it's just so, it's just piling on with all that stuff. It's just amazing why. And so that's your, your sugar and all that. fat is included in the carbohydrates because sugar is a, is a, is a carbohydrate.

And there's, you know, there was a study that was back way back. I can't remember. It was like in the 1980s where these 2 Harvard professors and researchers that were paid off to point the finger at fat rather than, oh, it's not the sugar that's causing the heart disease and this and that. Because I don't know if you know this, but in the '50s, you know, heart disease was a big deal. And Eisenhower in 1955, he had a heart attack and it was a big deal.

Yeah.

And a lot of people were dropping in the prime of their lives. They just, what's going on here? And there was this, this joker that your favorite guy, Ancel Keys, he came along and he, he had this theory that was called the diet-heart hypothesis. And he said it was the meat and the butter and the cheese. It was clogging up the arteries and that was the cause of it and that kind of thing. And he gave this analogy that, oh, well, it's kind of like a shower drain where you get the hair and the grease and the gook and it clogs up. And people bought into that imagery. And everybody, and then, you know, big food started coming out with low-fat, nonfat, this and that. And oh my God, you know, within 10, you know, so the stats kept going up on that, on the low fat, because they, to take the fat out of food, it doesn't taste so good. So you gotta add, you gotta add in carbs and sugar to make it palatable. Right. And so what they found years later, they had, they found this thing, they discovered this thing called electron microscopy.

And what that does, that's where you can snake these teeny tiny cameras up into the veins and do an angiogram and see what's going on. Yeah. And they discovered this thing called the glycocalyx. What is that? The glycocalyx is this fuzz-like lining of the artery walls that acts as the first line of protection against what's called the small dense LDL particles that we, you and I talked about a little earlier from invading the artery walls. And it just, smoking destroys that. That's what they discovered. The smoking destroys the glycocalyx. And then years later, they found that a worse destroyer of the glycocalyx is the these processed, ultra-processed refined grains and sugars. So we substituted one destroyer of the glycocalyx with another one. And so that's why heart attacks and heart disease remains and continues to this day.

Yeah.

The biggest killer, 'cause we're just putting it in there and people don't know it. They don't, there's no education on any of this. That's why I thought I found it my mission, like you, to warn people, at least don't be like me. And, you know, skip the heart attack and, or, or death, 'cause 60% of the people who have a deadly first heart attack, they don't have any symptoms, right? So, you know, and your doctor doesn't know any of this. They're not, don't hold it against them. It's just that they're not taught this in their pharma-funded medical school that they attended.

Yeah. They don't look at everything and they just kind of give you the golden pass where you think everything's okay. And you have to be willing and educated to take the time to go look into it yourself, unless you have like a really strong doctor, like a holistic doctor or somebody that you're paying, you know, you're going to pay a lot for that, but look what you get. I mean, you get real care. It's kind of like going to a big university or a private one. When you're in a room of 500 people, it's a little bit more hard to learn, you know? And when you're in a private one, you're getting that real condensed— as long as it's a good school— that condensed learning where they're kind of more hands-on, know who you are, and you get taught in a different manner. And this is— you're paying to get looked after. And if you're not, if you don't have the money or don't want to do that, do it on your own. I mean, at least learn.

Yeah.

And go do the test yourself like you were talking about and, and get the numbers you need and then take 'em to somebody that can help you. But there's so much data, like literally at our fingertips if we just know what to get and then how to read it. But the, the other problem there is the reference ranges because what they say is average is not optimal. That is average based upon how screwed up everybody is right now. So don't take an average. I have this problem with hormones, Daniel. When I talk to people about hormonal balance, I'm saying, that is maybe average, but that is certainly not optimal in any way, shape, or form.

You're so right. You're so right with all that. That's, it's just so, again, there's no, there's no education. Now, you said you were a dietitian. Did you go through the certification and all that? Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

I've studied.

That's amazing.

I have studied that for a long time and now I, I've, I right now I've went through cellular courses at Harvard Knight School and then neuroscience And then I've studied alongside cardiologists, you know, like Dr. Ovadia, but others around the world that are more open-minded. They see things from both sides of the equation. I talk to both sides of people that are more holistic and then more conventional. And what I like to do, Daniel, is blend. I like to blend my diet. I like to blend my, my learning that is taking both sides of the fence, piecing what works and what doesn't. Now, oftentimes I find that it's a lot better to go non-conventional and use that more. For sure. That's what I always come up with. But there are times and ways and means that we do need or do work. They're just misused and they're abused and they just wanna shove shit down your throat and they take it from where it's gonna be beneficial to we just wanna wreck you. And that's my problem. You know, it's, I don't like to just always come out and go, nope, nope, Nope, it's this, it's this, it's this.

I don't find that helpful. But what I do find is that we need to understand that we have been misled. That is a reality. And people need to stop thinking everything's a conspiracy and listen and, and learn. And that's why it's important that you teach what you have, because you teach from real experience and you, you are honest and open about what's happened to you. Doesn't mean that it's identical for everybody, but I can tell you this, everything you said about eating processed foods and all of these additives and everything, that's gonna hurt every— everybody. No one's gonna be immune to that. I can guarantee everybody that, that that's gonna be a problem.

Yeah, it's, it's unfortunate, but we, what else can we think when we look down through history? It's like when you get human beings next to money, it's just, they either look the other way or something, you know, their bounds of ethics gets a little short. And so it's just, it's really difficult. But you must know about Lennar Cooper, Right? Mm-hmm. Lena Cooper. You ever heard of her? Yeah. She was the founder of, or the co-founder of the American Dietitian Association back in what, 1907 or something? And she was a, a protégé of John Harvey Kellogg, who was a vegetarian. And he, you know, Kellogg, Kellogg cereal and all like that. And so he was the king of the Kelloggs and all like that. And she's the one that came up with, what is Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. And all it was was a marketing, it was a marketing slogan. And then people started saying it, hey, got to eat your guy. Hey, we got our cereals. Here's our Kellogg's, you know, so you get your Froot Loops or your, you know, or your Cheerios and it's the most important meal of the day.

And it's, oh my God, it's just so sad.

I was putting some, some thoughts together for videos that I was gonna do and I was gonna take the, the most bogus claims that were ever made that were like, you know, things like the, the best part of waking up is Folgers in your cup and taking these and putting them together and making videos and going back in time and showing how ridiculous things were, just like what you just said.

And, you know, Lena Cooper.

Oh man. And, and, and calling out the people like her that made the claims, you know, and just showing how we get tricked into things. And, and you know what else I was telling somebody the other day? I said, you know, it's like the those, those drug commercials. And I took Jardiance, like I told you before, and, and they have those nice little songs that go along with them and they trick your mind into avoiding the fact that when they start running down all the potential side effects after the song stops, but your mind is still running through that song being annoying or catchy that you don't miss the part. And if you die, you can sue us. You know, it's like, no, no, no.

Yeah. You missed the whole thing. You know, part of the, the happy part is like where grandpa's shooting hoops with the kids and Yeah. You know, and he's, they're all habits, everything. And they're saying, if you take this too much, you're gonna die. Yeah.

And then you can sue us after you're dead.

Oh my God. It's wild. It's wild. You know, it's, you know, in, I have a whole chapter on statins, speaking of statins. There's a lot of studies in there, but there's this one I should tell you about. I got this from Dr. Robert Lustig, and there was this study where, big study, 92,135 patients, The patients want to know if I take a statin every day for the rest of my life, how much longer will I live? So the researchers thought, yeah, let's, let's check that out. So they dove deep and they came up with, and again, it's 92,135 patients, and they found that those taking statins for primary prevention, in other words, no heart attack yet, they're only taking a statin because their doctor has some goofy, outdated, unscientific ideas about LDL and all that. that. And he's fearmongered you and you're doing that. And they lived, the people taking it for primary prevention lived a big 3 days longer than the other group not taking a statin. And the group taking a statin for secondary prevention, in other words, they already had a heart attack. They lived a big 4 days longer. So I asked my readers in the book, look, you still want to put up with all the side effects because there's so many bad side effects besides the aches and pains.

I mean, some people, you know, most of it is, and it's even on the black label warning, as they say, is memory loss. You're, you lose 20 or 30 IQ points. It's just, oh my God. That's why they call it statin stupid. So, you know, really you want to stay away from that, but you know, you just, I say, look, if I'm getting the choice here, here's 3 days of my life, go away. I'm not taking that. Right.

Yeah.

So you got to put it in perspective once you know all the data. I mean, you still wanna do, do the, the, a diet that's gonna not cause inflamed plaque, the vulnerable plaque.

Can I ask you one more food question about carbs before we go into, I wanna get into the seed oil stuff with you. I think it's a very pertinent discussion. I see a lot of arguing and a polarizing discussion when it comes to oats, and I have thoughts both ways. I think a lot of it comes down to what kind, what are you putting in there? What, because you get this data and it's like, yeah, but what kind were they eating? When, how? I'm wondering your thoughts on oats in general.

Well, oats is another grain. And again, it's going to make your blood sugar get high, you know, probably like a candy bar. And the whole idea is like you made it so it's so important, like you pointed out earlier, to wear a CGM or do some finger pricks and keep an eye on the blood sugar because that's the source root cause of all of our ailments in modern days. 'Cause we never had this amount of blood sugar spikes all day long. 3 meals a day was never a thing. I mean, it's like we were lucky to eat once a day.

I know.

Life was tough. And if we could eat lunch once a day, I mean, even then in ancient Rome, like, you know, they had 1 meal a day, usually around 2 o'clock, 1 big meal and everybody get together and that kind of thing. So there was never 3 meals a day. I don't, I think it started in the Industrial Revolution were the, the workers would go off very early and they'd bring a bag and they'd ring a bell and they'd have lunch and then afterwards they'd eat and that kind of thing. And that's where the 3 meals a day, but 3 meals a day was never a thing. So, no, that's why I, I find it very important to have a chapter on intermittent fasting and, and how to do that and what's, what that's all about. Because again, it's very natural to go, I usually do 16, 17, 18 hours a day and you feel great. And that's why I recommend recommend if you really want to get cut, I mean, you gotta check out my chapter 9 about fasting in a, in a exercise in a fasted state. I mean, that's how the Wolverine, what's his name?

Hugh Jackman.

Yeah.

That's how he get totally ripped because, you know, exercising in a fasted state is kind of a Hollywood secret to the Hollywood trainers for a long time.

Mm-hmm.

And that's how he got like so ripped in that Wolverine movie. He did the 16-hour and there's so many benefits from it. They did, there was other studies. I think I have one in there where they had 2 groups. One group did fasted exercise. The other one group did fed exercise and they followed them for a period of time. And the group in the fasted exercise lost 300% more fat mass than the other group. That's huge. That's huge. I mean, I always work out in a fasted state. So that's one thing there. So the oats, you know, you just, it's basically, you just want to think of all the grains, just put them aside. Because especially with big ag, they just want to keep spraying that stuff. And it's just a shame because it gets into the food supply so easily because most people are, you know, like I said, gave you that stat, this out of the 60,000 products at an average supermarket, 59,000 contain wheat. And there's just so much poison in these mycotoxins. And we already live in a toxic soup of a world with the microplastics and glyphosate and Chemtrails and, you know, household products.

So we really got, we already have to, when I look at it is there's only so much you can do, right? So you do all the major things and you find out what household products are less harmful than the others and which is less harmful than this. So you want to keep a very strong immune system that way, you know, you have really a good protection against anything that might come your way and it's not going to be perfect, But we got to do our best. What are we going to do? You know, it's just, it's all out there. So that's that. And then, you know, my seed oils, see, they're so deadly because again, I have chapter 6, the shocking truth about vegetable oils. They have these chemicals called the ones TBHQ and the other ones HNE, 4-hydroxynonenal, and aldehydes like in cigarettes and, you know, n-hexane. And these get into your body and especially if you heat them and they're they, they're neurodegenerative, carcinogenic, and 7 to 10 times more likely to cause heart disease. It's just a disaster. You really wanna stay away from them. So that I took a deep dive in there and that's why I got some great help and endorsements from Nina Teicholz, who, I don't know if you know her, she wrote the classic, the Big Fat Surprise came out in 2014.

It's still flying off the shelves.

Mm-hmm.

And she was the one that brought the attention to all of these vegetable oils. And then there's Cate Shanahan, And her research showed that one, one French fry from like McDonald's or any of those places, it's like equivalent to one cigarette. The toxins is like, that's wild, man. Oh my God. You know, and, and then there's Chris Kenobi, Dr. Chris Kenobi. He wrote the amazing, he had a lot of studies in the seed oils. And yeah, so I actually had them contribute some of their graphs and their studies and I put them in that chapter 6. So big hugs to all them. And I'm really really honored and privileged and humbled that they would do that. Because again, this is not a praise Daniel Trevor session. It's just, look, I want people to get the information because I didn't have it. Nobody gets it. They don't get it in school. Their parents don't know. And then I had one of my friends say to me, well, don't they have mirrors at home? They can't see with it. I said, yeah, they have their mirrors. You got to give them a break though. Because when they go to the grocery store, everybody else looks like them.

So this must be normal, right?

It's like, oh my And so anyway, I see, did Dr. Chris write anything in your book?

Yeah. In chapter 6, he's got a couple of charts there that I've got in chapter 6. It's called The Shocking Truth About Vegetable Oils. I give him credit and Cate Shanahan and Nina Teicholz.

Yeah. 'Cause I actually talked to Chris this morning. He's a friend of mine too. Yeah.

Outta town.

No, really?

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I talked to Chris A couple times a month at least. Yeah, definitely. I'll tell him.

You gotta give him a big hug for me.

Yeah. I actually will be talking to him later this evening, so I'll let him know. Cause I didn't know you knew him, so I'll tell him tonight when I'm talking to him.

Yeah. Yeah. He was a big help. You know, in that chapter 6, when you get to it, you'll see. So I was really fortunate to, cause when I finished the book, I didn't know if I had anything good. I thought I did, especially if I got this guy Ford Brewer. Right. And so I was looking at other health and wellness books. I said, oh, we got to get some endorsements, you know? So I started reaching out to these heavy hitters and I went, oh my God. It was like, what? Dr. Philip Ovadia, done 3,300 heart surgeries. I got Mark Hyman. I got, I even have the winner of the Nobel Prize in Medicine for his discovery of nitric oxide. I'm going, what? This is just little Daniel Trevor. I'm just a lower-class street kid from Philly.

You know, Dr. Ovadia, when I was in the hospital, And I had like a small event, and he reached out to me. Didn't know me, didn't know me at all, and gave me support. And I've been friends with him ever since, man. Like he is such a good man and very intelligent, and he is widely versed, as you know, on many different aspects of not just heart and heart surgery, but diet and dietary needs for the heart. And and he's got great insight, and he's got a nice different set of viewpoints that are I find to be highly beneficial. And he just he's a good man. Man, he's just a damn good man. You know, I'll never forget him reaching out to me and not knowing me at all. And he's been, he'll always be a good friend to me for that.

I'll never forget that.

Wow.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah.

Yeah.

He's, he's wonderful. He's just wonderful.

Yeah. He's, he's a wealth of info. I, I, I wanna ask about the oils. Now we know seed oils and, and that's a whole nother topic for a different, we, we could do a whole podcast on that. But how do you feel about olive oil or any other oils? Do you find all oils bad or do you have, like, are there any you recommend?

No, no, No, no, there's what Cate Shanahan calls the hateful 8. The worst one is soybean oil. Yeah. Which is in all the mayos, all the mayonnaises and all the, you know, the salad dressings and everything. You know, there's safflower, sunflower, and all that kind of thing. And I have them all under hateful 8. But no, if you want to use some olive oil, some avocado oil or coconut oil, that kind of thing, those are fine. I still wouldn't do them in abundance, but—

Right.

You know, those are, those are, those are 3 that you could be safe with, but you want to make sure you have real olive oil, authentic. When I say that, is there are some criminals out there, these companies, they'll fill the bottle like 25% with olive oil and then they fill the rest of it with some bullshit like soybean oil or one of the, you know, a mixture and then they'll sell it. So make sure you're not, you're buying something that's, you know, not cheap. You don't want any of the, you wanna be really make sure you've, you're getting the real deal there.

Yeah. I always, I—

That's one caution. And then the other thing is just that those, when you heat them up, these other bad seed oils, oils, soybeans, safflower, sunflower, canola, and so forth. It's just, it's a nightmare. They turn into all these chemicals that we talked about. Yeah.

I cook a lot now in grass-fed butter and, you know, I, I, I do use some olive oil, but I drizzle, I don't even cook in it. I just kind of drizzle it over the top of eggs or avocados and, you know, grass-fed meats and things. It's a nice little finisher, but I don't even really cook with it at all, to be honest with you. You know, I've, I've found The anger that I have of all the years I missed cooking in butter and eating some of these foods. And I'm not saying go eat a pound or stick of butter, but there, you know, it, it has a good amount of benefit that I, you know, have a lot of science and data on. But people, you say that and they just freak out, you know? And it's like, listen, I'm not saying eat a stick of butter every day, but what I am saying is there's a lot of benefit there. And it's like anything else, you eat the moderation and the amount you need per day. And, you know, and people freak out about everything, whether it's carbs, whether it's fruit, whether it's too much protein, whether it's too much fat.

I mean, people just like to argue for the reason of argument and it's balance, right? Life is about balance. And yeah.

Well, also, yeah, you gotta remember that I write about this in chapter 3. We are built for a higher protein and fat, low carbohydrate Mm-hmm. See, cardio— anthropologists and bioarchaeologists have told us that our diet consisted of, for 2.6 to 4.5 million years, of what we could catch, kill, and eat nose to tail. Mm-hmm.

Right.

And so it was always higher fat. And what we might pick off a tree or a vine, that kind of thing only, but only when those berries were in season.

Right.

So it was a higher protein and fat, lower carbohydrate diet. And people are still freaking out about the fat. Oh, my doctor says you gotta eat the— it's, that's causing, we thank Ancel Keys for that. And then, you know, they, it winds up in the medical curriculum of the medical schools and the doctors learn that and it's a total bunch of bullshit. And all the doctors that you and I know and pay attention to, at least they're up to speed and they know. And oh my God, I have it right here. There's, there was this research report from Clinical Cardiology and it states, and I don't like to read things, but this might, might help. This mismatch between our ancient physiology and the Western diet and lifestyle underlies many of the so-called diseases diseases of civilization, including coronary heart disease, obesity, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, epithelial cell cancers, autoimmune disease, and osteoporosis, which are rare or virtually absent in hunter-gatherer and other non-Westernized populations. It's like, oh my God. You know, wild. It says it right there because yeah, it's just, I think the rulers of the planet, I mean, that's the only, you know, the World Economic Forum with Klaus Schwab and all those I think they, they think of us as like an ant farm.

Yeah.

Just, uh, but you brought up a really good point earlier and it's like, we are what we eat. And, and I really, I didn't expound upon it, but your point about when the animals are eating grains and soy and all of this crap that they feed them, that is part of the problem that misconstrues eating some of these things because you are eating what they're eating. And so there you go. You know, you're finding something, a study or whatever, that my first question is, what were they being fed and what kind of environment were they in? Because stressful animals and things of that nature are also bad for us. Right. And so that got a lot of times that gets overlooked or not mentioned conveniently.

Oh my God. Yeah. I cover that in regenerative farming in chapter 12 is eat meat and help the planet. And a lot of people on the other side they're going, eat meat. And how can you help the planet? You got cow farts and they're making the greenhouse gases. It's like, so I debunk all of that. And in fact, I even go into, I ask, why is it that the world's richest and most elites of the planet are pushing plant-based diets?

Right.

When throughout recorded history, those were reserved for slaves, prisoners, and foot soldiers. You know, the Romans, they marched on barley. The elites had all the meat they wanted, you know? And so it's just wild how all that happened. And so, and they all talk about, oh, scientific consensus.

I know.

Scientific consensus. And I debunk that because I give an example. It's like, you know, Galileo, our brilliant mathematician and astronomer, in 1633, he was imprisoned for life. Yeah. When he just, after he discovered that the Earth is not the center of the universe, that it revolves around the sun and the sun's part of a system that's going around these other systems, it's like they imprisoned him for life because, hey, it was scientific consensus. consensus that the Earth is the center of the universe, especially with the, you know, the church. Yeah. And oh my God. So it's, so whenever you hear anybody using scientific consensus, whether it's from media or government, just know that what you're about to hear will be as truthful as the COVID jab is safe and effective for everyone, safe and effective for everyone, and totally stops transmission. Right. We know what a total bunch of bullshit that turned out to be, right?

Yeah.

And so, you know, it's just watch out. You know, a lot of, there's people out there in high places that are trying to fool us and it's all money. And we really got to come after the big ag. That's the next thing we all got to, because it's just, oh my God, all those things that they're spraying on the, you know, I would love to have a piece of toast one day too, maybe. But, but again, it comes back to the CGM as you so wisely point out.

Yeah, that's the key. I mean, it really is. And And that's, that's how I've learned a lot and come to the conclusion of, okay, well this might work for so-and-so, but it's not working for me. And this, wow, this works for me. And someone over there's telling me completely different. I'm gonna stick with what works for me. And that's— Yeah.

How you feel and your blood lab.

Yeah.

Those are the 2 main things. Yeah.

And that's what I, as a, as a nutritionist and as a trainer and as somebody that's trained athletes, my job to do my best is to do what's conducive to said person based upon a million different factors. And I think that gets lost in the equation when people are speaking or have a strong set of beliefs. It's good to always have a, like, okay, this is what happened to me, but you also have to be mindful and temperate that that doesn't always apply to everybody. But there are certain things which you have pointed out quite eloquently in your book that do apply to everybody. And then there's, you know, there's polarizing shit, man, that we have to kind of kind of have our opinion but be open to other opinions on, I think. And, and I've gotten better about that, you know?

Yeah, no, no, no. We have to relax and just go, okay, so he's vegan, vegetarian, you know? But, and I, I cover that. I, I can't remember where. And I say, look, this is no war on vegans and vegetarians. 'Cause, you know, I have a lot of my friends, he says, look, once I, I, I too was a vegetarian. I tried that for a while. Mm-hmm. Way back. And you know, so people like that are paying attention. They want to live long, they want to do well. They're usually higher education and that kind of thing. But I say, look, once I've seen this data, I can't unsee it. Yeah. So at least stay with me while you get through the following pages and that kind of thing. And you know, I'm not looking to convince anybody, but just make up your own mind and be open.

Yes.

To reading how we've eaten for 2.6 to 4.5 million years. And, you know, go from there.

I like to go on the premise of metabolic flexibility and to be flexible metabolically. You have to be willing to certain days do something a little bit different and accommodate your, like I said, your training or whatever, but have a premise for how you normally eat and listen to your body, right? And then listen to the data, the results, and go from there. And that's why I told you, I've been like this extremist that went from one to the other. with realizing, man, if you're gonna train like this, if you're gonna live like this, there's certain things you're gonna need. But you have to realize that there is one method that's better than the other. I found my body to be like a fat burning machine when I got everything tested through my breath. And I didn't even realize the amount of carbs I was eating by eating so low fat. And then when I sat and broke it down, because even as a nutritionist, sometimes the teachers, you don't do what you teach. And I started going down and I was like, man, everything I'm eating is carb, carb, carb, carb, carb, carb, carb.

And I was kind of dumbfounded. And then I cut it so, so low that it also had a negative effect on me. And so I balanced it out now to where it's still, I would say for my training, pretty low. But it's, you know, more like 100 to 120, where when it got down to 30 and 50, it's, it's not enough. But over, over the 100 or so, it's, it's too much for me. It's kind of like, okay, after a 90-minute cardio session, you best get a few carbohydrates. Doesn't mean you need 500, but when I put my data in for what it recommends based on training, they've got me eating 400 to 500 carbs a day.

Seriously?

And, and heavy protein and fat too. I'm more of the ilk of like 200 grams of protein, 80 to 100 grams of fat, and 100 to 120 grams of carbs. And that seems to kind of be a good set for me. I was getting a little high on the fats there for a while, Daniel, like 150, a little too much because it, you know, I went one extreme to the other. So yeah, it's how you feel. deal, man.

Yeah. And you understand the most important thing that most people don't, and that is, and any engineer will tell you this, you can't manage what you don't measure. Yes. You can't manage what you don't measure. That's the beauty of the CGM and the thing, you know, the CGM, the sugar spikes. I mean, that's, that's what causes all of our disease. 'Cause we didn't have these, you know, these amount of standard American diet foods even 100 years ago. So it's just like I said, the obesity rate in 1930 was 1%. And we're now approaching 50 in under 100 years. It's just astonishing. It just blows your mind. And what population did that ever happen to throughout history? None.

None.

So you can't manage what you don't measure. Get a CGM, go to CVS or something and get your finger stick thing. You know, it's like $25, I think, whatever. But you gotta understand, you can't manage what you don't measure. That's what any engineer will tell you.

That's right. And then, like you said, ways to go about it. Move after a meal. Another thing that I teach people is prioritize your plate, man. Eat the protein first, then the fats, then the carbs last. That also helps. There's a lot of things if you do it, people are like, oh, that doesn't matter. It does matter. 'Cause the data will show you that it matters. Try it without it and then try it doing it and then look and see what you find. And you're gonna find like, wow, maybe I should listen to some of these things that I think are crazy. 'Cause they're not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, listen, I'm just really really thrilled that you are getting all this information out on your, on your YouTube page. It's just wonderful that you're, and the people that you interview and your knowledge that you have is just, keep it up, brother.

Dude, I love everything you talk about and what you stand for and what you do. And the, what I really like about your book is the attention to detail and how well you know it. You can tell in a discussion with you of 5 minutes how in tune you are with your own work and writing. A lot of people, they put books out and they wouldn't know what was going on past the prologue, if they even got that far. And you have, and I was telling my wife this before the conversation, I said, you gotta listen to this guy. 'Cause I said, he will cite you down to the T, down to anything in this book. And I said, I love it because I can ask him anything and he's just gonna cite it and then everybody can go look it up. And I just love that you're that into what you did. And I appreciate it.

Well, I, I gotta confess that after it was done, I was constantly reading the book because when I started doing these podcasts and getting invited onto different, you know, YouTube channels and so forth. I, you know, I don't know what they're going to ask me. So I had to be prepared. I go, oh wait, I'm like, I don't remember this. And I got to tell you a funny story. When I, when I first appeared with Ken Berry back in '24, I forget exactly when, but I was in touch with his people, you know, to set everything up. And I said, wait a minute, he's got how many millions of followers, subscribers? He's always got 3.6 here and 2.8 over here. I said, oh my God. Okay. And I said, well, if I mess this up, we can go back and edit that part out, right? Yeah.

Oh no. Oh no.

It's a livestream. Holy shit. They said, they said, what's the matter? I said, well, I did write the book and I do know the data, but knowing the data and running it smoothly over my tongue, I'm new to this book interview stuff. Oh, you'll be just fine. Don't worry about it. So we took the dive and we went into it and I may have stumbled here or there, but you know, I gotta tell you that book shot the, I mean, that interview shot the book to number 1 on Amazon.

Yeah.

And it has stayed there in the top 10 for heart disease, type 2 diabetes, you know, they have these categories they give you. So I'm really happy that people caught onto that, but I was just, you know, when I first started out, I didn't, I really, I needed to practice and roll these things over my tongue and say them a few times. So that's my exposure and confession there.

Well, it's refreshing, man, because I, I'm blessed to interview so many different people and I've come out of some things shocked in good and bad ways with some people where I would've never expected the knowledge base and some people where I expected a lot more and was kind of blown away. at the dance. I always call them political dancers, not saying they're into politics, but you know how politicians dance when you ask them stuff. And some, some people I get on there and I'm like, this guy is dancing, or a woman dancing like a politician, can't answer a simple question, which tells me they're good at their marketing, but not so good at their knowledge. So I appreciate the knowledge and the wisdom that you brought today. It's, it's, it's a breath of fresh air for me.

Thank you. I really appreciate that, Dylan. Thank you so much. And I want you to keep doing what you're doing and I'll do that on my end as much as I can.

Well, I'll put everything down here for where they can buy your book, check you out online. Is there anything you want to mention on where to go to follow you?

Yeah, no, just go to danieltrever.com. And like I said, you know, I got a lot of really good data up there. You can click blood tests, at least read them. Like I said, you can even buy them there if you want, or you write them down, take them to your doctor. If they'll, you know, that way you get it through your insurance or something. But yeah, there's some really good data there. And, uh, you know, check that out. danieltrever.com.

Awesome. Well, I appreciate it.

And one last thing, one last thing I offer. If you get on my weekly newsletter, I offer a free preview of the book. And what is that? That's the first 48 pages of the book. You put in your name and you're, you know, you can unsubscribe at any time, of course. And then you, you get a PDF of the first 48 pages of the book. And that way you can, you know, it's kind of like the old days when you go to the yogurt stand, you taste a little of this, taste a little of that, you taste it a little bit, and then you can go buy it if you want.

I will say his newsletter is actually quite good. It's not a bullshit newsletter. I've read now 3 or 4 of them since I met you, and they're all quite good. They actually have good information and it's not selling anything. It's actually insightful. So I would actually subscribe to that. I normally don't push people's newsletters because they're all just full of ads, but this one's not. It's really good.

So, well, it's stuff that's topics, topics that are in the book, but they're more bite-sized, you know? Yeah. That's the way Yes.

So, all right, Daniel, I appreciate you, my brother. And everybody, please, if you just don't do anything short of go read a little bit of what Daniel's wrote, because it's insightful and it's going to change your life. So that being said, stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli signing off.