Transcript of Why Did ESPN Leak The News of Their Layoffs? | Hour 2

Summer is pretty much my favorite time to be a sports fan. The biggest soccer tournament of the summer just wrapped up. Baseball's on every night. Racing never takes a weekend off. And my calendar basically revolves around first pitches, green flags, and whatever game everybody's texting about. I realized I'm the MVP of my group. I'm always the friend that says, "Hey, I've got it. I've got a place. I've got some ice cold Miller Lite. I got the TV. I got a big comfy blue leather couch. Come on over." That's the behavior of a Miller Time MVP. I almost never watch the big ones alone. I'd much rather be with my friends. And if I am alone, we're texting, we're sipping on our Miller Lites, toasting the day, toasting the big games. For me, Miller Lite is just a part of a big game routine. It's brewed for taste with simple ingredients, clean, refreshing, and easy to drink, especially in the Miami heat. It's a true American pilsner and the original light beer since 1975. An all-American summer starts with an all-American beer, Miller Lite. Go to MillerLite.com/Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

You're listening to the Dan Levitan Show in partnership with the DraftKings Sports App, now live in all 50 states.

I fear that I have made a terrible mistake, and I don't know if you guys have spotted it yet. Um, Greg Cody's sour, and he's come in here sour, and he's a prideful man, and I don't believe that we're getting the best mood from Greg Cody, the most I want to be here from Greg Cody. I don't know if there's a degree of shame involved in what's happening. His son impervious to shame. Gets it wrong journalistically on Monday and shakes it off. Don't know how Greg Cody, his father, felt about that. Your son reporting that LeBron was going to make a decision Monday and totally getting it wrong. Your thoughts are what there as what is usually his proud father?

I mean, I don't know who his source was or is, so I can't—

Ask Tony. He told Tony.

The credibility of it. He told Tony.

I can't tell who it is.

Okay, I can't either because I don't know. So I You know, you do something like that and you're throwing a dart at a board. If it hits, you look like a genius. And if it doesn't, then you rationalize it. You say, oh, LeBron was going to decide one day.

But no, but hold on a second, Greg. You have journalism standards. You care about journalism.

Right, but he doesn't.

But you care about credibility. And the reason that that got the traffic it did is because he's trafficking off of the credibility that is here on this show. I was asking while you were out there, when it comes to sourcing and the fact that he doesn't know anything about what a source is. Are you someone who remembers the time in newspapers, or did this change, where you had to tell your boss who your source was? Yes. That you were not actually keeping the source to yourself because the paper, the newspaper, had liability issues. You had to go tell your boss and then risk going to jail if you told anyone other than your boss in protection of that source.

Right. Yeah, back in the many years when I covered beats and was actually working on news stories and occasionally breaking a story, Notice how I said occasionally. There were, yeah, the executive sports editor would say, well, who's your source? And, you know, you go through the motions, you say, well, you know, it's, I really hesitate to tell you, but then you eventually tell him because he insists and it stops with him. You know, it's not as if he's going to ruin your source by telling anybody that he shouldn't.

Now, I don't actually know if this is the rule throughout the industry. I just know it was the rule at the Miami Herald.

Greg, are you okay?

Yeah, what do you mean?

You sound nervous. Nervous? Yeah, it's okay to be nervous.

I'm nervous.

I'm nervous.

I'm nervous.

Like it's before a game. Guys, we've been working hard, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Greg, this is the Dan Lebatard Show.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, let me say that again. This is the Dan Lebatard Show.

Yeah, I've heard that, right? I'm familiar with it.

The Dan Lebatard Show.

Yeah. Yeah, I listen to it whenever I'm on.

The Dan Lebatard Show.

What are we doing here? What is going on? What am I missing? And by the way, I am not ashamed of my performance. I want to make that clear. I am not ashamed of my performance.

You said you were going to make 3 or 4. You went 0 for 10.

I went 0 for 10, but then soon after that I struck one past the goalie.

You were 0 for 10 in the time allotted for you to take kicks, and you were given bonus pity kicks until you made one.

Okay, I think I had good pace on the ball.

Watch the goalie. He's so ready to move.

And then doesn't need to.

He was legitimately stunned that that one rocketed past him. He was underestimating Greg for good reason. Everything was kicked right at him, and he kicked one of them with his own feet.

You know what I noticed? The one that he saved with his foot, not only did he save with his foot, but he saved it with his, like, his back foot.

Yeah, he was showing off a little bit. It's okay. You know, I— that's on me. But I struck the ball well. If I had to do it again, I would—

You didn't.

No, you didn't.

Duck farts, you kicked that in.

Oh, like you could do better. Greg, you did great.

I don't know why this is about me.

You can't do better. You're the one taking shots. You can do better. I bet you Greg looks better and more graceful.

Well, now we're going to have to do this again.

Well, the goalie told me afterward that he was shocked that I had that much pace on the ball for someone my age.

He also said he'd never seen anyone hold there, which was just wild.

I believed him.

I've legitimately never seen anybody this old. It was just a crazy lie.

You don't have a grandfather? What's going on?

How did we not ask him how old he thought you were?

So every time you were aiming for one of the corners, right?

Uh, no, I was aiming to put the ball past him left or right, but I wasn't aiming for just inside the post.

But my point is you weren't going like strategy-wise, he's going to jump, I'm going to go up the middle. You were aiming and you just couldn't kick it where you were aiming.

Well, I have more accuracy with my instep, but I don't have the power. With my instep, I can make it kiss the post.

But you're a toe poker.

No, not toe, top step.

You know, man, if you use the great toenail with a toe poke— now it has its risks.

It does.

Deflating the soccer ball among them.

Well, you don't get much accuracy with a toe poke.

You get toe jam football. Oh, the Beatles are litigious.

Greg, you say you're not ashamed, but how are you feeling? Zazz, you felt it, right? He came in and was— I mean, he's been a little bit sour since he's been here.

Like, at what point, Greg, after what kick did you realize, I'm not gonna get any?

I never thought that. I always thought the next one was going in.

Like a true great.

Thank you. Thank you very much. See, Mike knows. He saw the velocity on my shots. He knows they are going in.

Oh, but the goal that you scored was a nice feathery finish.

Finish.

I don't know if you meant to do it, but he legit— you beat him on that. I know he was doing some stuff, but he didn't know where you were going with it. Like, even if you were jumping, he would have missed that.

That's true. Anytime you hit the inside of the, of the corner net, you, you know you've hit a pretty good shot.

Well, but Mike Ryan is sitting here saying that Greg Cody has the champion's attitude of, if I've missed the first 17, what am I thinking on the 18th that I'm gonna make it? Yes, that makes sense if you're an All-Star or Hall of Famer. What it is with Greg Cody is sheer delusion. No, just sheer blanket delusion.

I disagree. Unlike yourself, I've played on a soccer team. I've worn the uniform.

I played on a soccer team.

I'm the man in the arena.

I wore a headband and got my dad so mad because I was a showboat and he thought I should be more respectful. My father was conservative in ways that embarrassed me.

Okay, how old were you?

40.

Okay.

Was.

You're welcome for that setup.

Get close to the mic, please.

I think he thinks his thermos is the microphone.

Hello, hello, am I on? Hello?

We all do. You're not embarrassed and you're not sour? You're fine and we can continue with the show?

I'm proud of my performance. I'm happy as a clam.

Cody's don't embarrass. Pat McAfee has a music album dropping August 14th, The Diet.

That's too bad.

Stole my bit.

Hold on a second. The diary of a polarizing figure. And I told you, this is not— Jeremy thinks that this is spoof. It is not spoof. The folks who run Pat McAfee's career, and I'm forgetting, is it— I think it's Ari Emanuel, right? Says he wants to make him Sylvester Stallone. Like there's an action star move being made here in sports. And if you're watching it, what is happening at ESPN, the timing for an album drop is pretty perfect. Right? Because he's getting blamed by people who don't understand the finances of any of this for ESPN having to let go of beloved personalities and polarizing personalities. Uh, Zaslo said yesterday on the show that this happens at ESPN every year or so. He's gotten used to it. Uh, I have not gotten used to it because those letters, uh, the entire time that I've been a part of the business, have been the most stable in all of sports except for the last few years. So it's fairly shocking to see Ryan Clark let go in that fashion and sort of the political wars and the journalistic wars of how that happened to embarrass a proud Black man at the end because an institution covered in shit stains does the reporting.

Someone leaks the information to an institution covered in shit stains that is a perpetual grift. And in the back and forth of the shadowy world of deal-making and stupidity, ESPN fumbles the ball and is now being accused of leaking the story first to The Athletic so that it couldn't be a story where at the end the proud Black man gets the embarrassed thing after being a political figure for the last 10 years. Because Ryan Clark is a football player, but he's not famous and actually really polarizing, more polarizing than McAfee. Only because of the times we're in and only because of what's happening everywhere, all across sports media. You may think in some perspectives that Stephen A. Smith introducing Bill Maher is indeed comedy. Less so for me as I watch what happens to something I cared about. All of it. Like I'm talking about the all of something that I cared about, destroyed by the stupidities of leaked stories that embarrass people because executives or people who don't have real power try to do an agenda of, "I'm gonna leak this to the shitstain grifter and see if I can get them their clicks because I'm on this side politically." And then what happens is Ryan Clark is embarrassed on air because they don't know how to do that correctly.

It's easier when you have the planning of Linda Cohn. It's harder when you've got a series of dishonest brokers out there inside and outside of your building. Infighting on, I'm gonna make the political statement, you know, I'm gonna show people how different things are since Kaepernick. I'm gonna bleep Ryan Clark at the end. Watch me do this. Watch how my constituency enjoys when I do this, when I get the reporting out a day before everyone else. They had it planned for Tuesday. Let me embarrass this dude because that's the game I play at a dishonest time with something that isn't even media. It's just a dishonest entity in a costume of media.

Leaks happen all the time, obviously, but the part about it that, that bothers me, that I don't understand, is, is the cruelty of it, essentially. Like, why do you want to hurt someone? You know, if, if right before ESPN, you know, let's say in this instance they, they come up with the deal where they're merging with NFL Network, okay, they're negotiating and they're like at the 1-yard line, you understand how that can leak out. It's a big news story, it's a big business story, that'll leak out. That's not going to hurt anyone, okay? It's just that— that's news, and for whatever reason someone's leaking out, maybe to help— I'm with you. Who's that supposed to be? I'm going to continue. I understand that kind of information getting out. Maybe you want to help a reporter where it's like, hey, here's a great scoop, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. But when you're leaking a story that someone is about to be fired all you're doing there is, is really hurting the person. That's, that's where, like, the cruelty comes out that I don't understand. Why would you leak that information that's going to embarrass the person?

But that's the reason. That, that's precisely the reason.

Because they don't like the person.

ESPN is going to be blamed for this.

But it happened with Ravitz, you said yesterday too.

Sloppy shop. Sloppy shop. I think that if there is something that you speak with conviction on this thing, it should be that ESPN handled all of this poorly. They handled the Linda Cohn thing well. That was a mutual discussion. She got to say goodbye, clearly was lumped in.

So you think she was going to be laid off?

I think they looked at their talent numbers and had a number in mind and had to get there, and it was tasked with certain managers. And they looked at Linda and they gave her a graceful goodbye, a graceful goodbye that I'm sure Carl Ravitch wish he got. Yeah, he was on games now, but that's one of the best studio hosts they've ever had. Like, the Baseball Tonight show that he helmed was a tremendous studio show for the time, probably the best thing going. And it would have been nice to have him. He's a, he's a luminary.

It's possible he was offered the same thing as Linda Cohn.

But all of this was just handled so poorly. The fact that you have a situation where there's someone that you're planning to let go on a Tuesday, be on the air on a Monday and risk that situation just shows Sloppy Shop. Summer is pretty much my favorite time to be a sports fan. The biggest soccer tournament of the summer just wrapped up, baseball's on every night, racing never takes a weekend off, and my calendar basically revolves around first pitches, green flags, and whatever game everybody's texting about. I realized I'm the MVP of my group. I'm always the friend that says, hey, I've got it, I've got a place, I've got some ice cold Miller Lights, I got the TV, I got a big comfy blue leather couch.

Come on over.

That's the behavior of a Miller Time MVP. I almost never watch the big ones alone. I'd much rather be with my friends. And if I am alone, we're texting, we're sipping on our Miller Lites, toasting the day, toasting the big games. For me, Miller Lite is just a part of a big game routine. It's brewed for taste with simple ingredients, clean, refreshing, and easy to drink, especially in the Miami heat. It's a true American pilsner and the original light beer since 1975. An all-American summer starts with an all-American beer. Miller Lite. Go to MillerLite.com/Dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time! Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

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Dan Levitar.

I want to address Tony and all men who would wear that shirt in public.

Greg Cody.

Don't do it.

This is the Dan Levitar Show.

It is easy to say. I do not object to your criticism. The thing, though, that I wanted to discuss here is I also believe that they're unprepared for some of what happened here because the preparation you have to do is for dishonest brokers. They clearly had a plan to have all of these people done on Tuesday. They did not expect someone from inside of their building to let that out on Monday.

ESPN didn't expect leaks?

Why?

Mike, they fired Adnan Virk for a leak. They did it very publicly. Jimmy Pitaro made a big scene about, no, there will not be leaks at this company. And then all we saw after that was the people who were leaking weren't the talent. They were the executives.

It was very obvious who was leaking the stuff. It was very obvious given the spin. And Pat McAfee, credit to him, doxxed one.

So this is where we started the conversation. The Diary of a Polarizing Figure. It's a music album that's dropping August 14th. And think about the promotion of I want to make the next Sylvester Stallone. Look who emerges from the ashes getting all the money as all of the past and personalities are knocked aside in a way that's aggressive, okay, top-end heavy on how you're paying people at your network because they're the people who pay for themselves and everyone else is disposable. As people complain and are outraged by, this isn't how you do it, you don't fire longtime personalities, as people who don't understand the business blame Pat McAfee. What a promotional item for the wrestling guy on College GameDay to emerge from all of this talk of he stole all the money and say, I've got an album dropping now, check out my I'm the biggest star in sports. Stephen A's over there making less than me, going with Bill Maher, trying to build out his own brand. I'm going to build it on his platform because I'm in charge now.

Pat does a masterful job of seeming dangerous and seeing like he's raging against the establishment. He's not the establishment pick while he's repped by Ari Emanuel and gets put on everything and gets tremendous opportunities. It's a very difficult thing to pull off without overexposing yourself. And he— I think he's— yeah, he's polarizing, but he's a megastar.

But the game plan, just so that you understand what's happening in these machinations, is Stephen A uses Disney and ESPN now as his second job because he figured out what McAfee already figured out, which is I got to build the other thing so when these people get to firing, I can have my own thing. He's repped by Mark Shapiro, who used to be the president of ESPN and ran Six Flags for Daniel Snyder. And that's one gamesmanship happening in career management where you're asking Disney to give me the Omaha money, give me production budgets. I want to be a bigger star. I want to take care of my staff. I want to make albums. I want to be a wrestler. I want to be the biggest thing this place has ever seen. I want to change the entire place while Disney and ESPN somehow keep getting called too woke. All the journalists are out the door now. All of the Black people, or almost all of the Black people who are actually going to say things that Black people agree with, strongly, all of them are gone too. You're going to have trouble finding Hispanics.

Like, you're going to have a network run by McAfee and all of the white people now in charge there and at NFL Network because they'll file this under, all of it under, we had to do this because the NFL came on board. We gave them 10% of our property. We are a giant business with them together. This is just business. That's what Jimmy Pitaro is saying, and it's understandable. It's the way to do it. But But they've clearly gotten all the woke out of the building, right?

Like, no, Mina Kimes is a big star for them.

She's the one now.

And she's woke.

Oh, she woke.

Okay, but she'll be the new Ryan Clark in terms of—

She's a girl and she never played football.

So that's what's going to get weaponized. So she— they're going to move from Ryan Clark over to her to see how she's going to do it.

They have moved on to her. Like, she's been a bullseye target for a while.

I think the thing is, is you're looking at this across all of media, right? Is you're watching the opinions of any level of minority group, no matter how you look at it, sort of being squeezed out. So this is our example of it within sports. We're looking at ESPN. Those are the four letters that we look at as the, the biggest network amongst all of it. And we see someone in Ryan Clark where that news isn't just leaked, that news is leaked to Outkick. That's with reason. That's a, a an outlet that is always looking for stuff on that particular person, and for them to be the ones who initially grab it, only for The Athletic to sort of save that leaking for, for whatever it was, is an example of like where this is all specifically going. This isn't just a wave of layoffs like we see every year with ESPN, like we've seen for the last decade. Like that, that's where all of, of cable news and cable sports has gone. You see layoffs, but the way the way that this one went, the particular names that you saw and the particular organizations that received those leaks shows you what the effort is, which is just at the very best, it's down the middle.

Opinions are gone for anything outside of break down this game.

At ESPN, I could always tell who leaked it by where it went.

Yeah. Well, let's talk about this part for a second though, real quick before we get out of this subject matter, because, um, Ryan Clark was embarrassed. That's the punctuation on a decade-long career that began as an intern there. Like, he was— he was interning there while he was a football player because he wanted to learn the media business. And it's a pretty instructive 10 years in the history of America, I would say, in terms of some of the things that end up happening where we end up in 2026. Whatever ESPN was, it is no longer. You take that however it is that you wish.

I don't think so, guys. This is ESPN. Let me say that again. This is ESPN, the worldwide leader. Jacked up thinking about it.

We work hard. What's wrong with the network?

It was embarrassing. And the thing that people were talking about, because as you're seeing, we love this stuff. There is something else that has changed. It's not just ESPN, it's the entire climate around it. So the LeBron James social media mistake is all over television today. As the news item of the day, an embarrassment. We enjoy dining at this particular trough so that we're talking a lot more about Ryan Clark than Carl Ravitch, even though Carl Ravitch just had a 30-year career ended at ESPN in a pretty disgraceful way as well. And we're not talking about that the same way because the juicy one is Ryan Clark getting embarrassed.

Oh, but he would have been the juicy one even if he wasn't embarrassed, like if he was just let go. Yesterday morning. He's still the juiciest.

Correct, but it's made all the more of a transcendent story. Like, there are some things here that are just interesting to sports people, but there are plenty of people who are interested in the politics of America enough that they wander over and they ask me, hey, was this about Schrager and the ultimate privilege of— he's fighting with Schrager about on-air stuff. And all of a sudden, like, you've never been interested in any of this. This is nothing. Ryan Clark? When have you ever brought me Ryan Clark? And this is not a sports person, it's a politics person. It's somebody who wanders over to watching the fight because look, man, this is the new sport that we've got going on, seeing and discerning how some of this bullshit happens and where it's dirty and gross and how it is that it undermines really lovely careers in entertainment that are difficult, that last 10 years or 30 years. It's a bit of a disgrace to have the infighting of such stupidities with executives and the nonsense between Whitlock and Stephen Givoney Smith taking out Cam Newton, or Cam Newton taking out Cam Newton because of whatever that bullshit was, uh, for careers to be harmed.

That's quarterback Cam Newton. It's a quarterback. They don't— those don't get fired from television like that. And he steps in, whatever the politics of that bullshit is.

Zazz, you know about that Brett screwed Brett? Of course, that's what happened.

I know, I'm with you, man.

Speaking of open jobs, so on LinkedIn there is a new posting from the Miami Heat.

Oh no, just saw this.

Director of YouTube Strategy.

Oh, I've done some investigating by talking to a friend that was recently unemployed. That's been around for a while.

Yeah, I'm seeing here it was created July 1st.

Yeah, it is going viral right now. It was created July 1st. It was reposted 18 hours ago. But obviously the internet is why they need it is having a field day.

Wait, the Heat reposted it 18 hours ago?

Says on LinkedIn now, 18 hours ago.

See, we really need to fill this position.

4:00 PM.

When was applied? Last week.

So that was before it was about 4 PM. Um, and I just think it's kind of amazing that the Heat have been the focal point of so much fun nonsense throughout this offseason because in the pursuit of Giannis, they helped force a rival to trade for Paul George.

We're so back.

They, they had a slap fight in Vegas and now they have this whole thing with the posting of the YouTube video and now the director strategy. We're so back.

They're also hiring a premium concierge, a liaison between Casaya Center premium guests.

Well said.

Nice pronunciation there.

You could do that.

You ever use the concierge when you go on vacation?

Hey, like, it's like what restaurants are around now. I just use the internet. Back in the day, you would use the concierge.

I don't think—

who uses that anymore? Who wants to wait in that line?

I do.

Yeah, your mother does.

I, I do. The concierge knows more about the area you're in than just about anybody else. He's got an expertise in the area.

He's got tickets to shows.

You know, like, internet tells you a lot about ratings and stuff, but the concierge is getting a cut of that, you know, when they direct. That's the one. Exactly right, Greg.

Send them to this restaurant, tell them I sent you, and then I get a little—

All right, put it on the Paul at Le Batard show. Do you really trust the concierge? Because this is fairly staggering.

What a sheep you are. Hello, where should I go eat?

He's been in it the whole time for himself.

Dan, there's a Sporo right across the street, best Italian you'll ever have.

Tell me where to go in your city, please.

Thank you.

All right, I'm off to that place that you just told me to go.

Do you like baby back ribs?

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Down Levitar!

Is there Back in My Day?

There is actually.

What?

Were you not going to tell anyone?

It's Tuesday!

Wait a minute, you guys, guys, it's a Tuesday.

Greg Cody, here's your guy Greg Cody with Back in My Day.

Shit, I hope I am.

Okay, here it is.

Sorry.

Adultery!

Oh yeah, wait a minute, we're waiting for this one.

This is the Dan Levitan Show.

Put it on the poll: is the concierge compromised?

Oh yeah.

Well, I just never considered. I'm legitimately learning something right now because I have trusted the concierge. Concierge to me is French for expert on the area. I don't know what it actually means.

No, it's French for Herbalife.

So I do think that there is the possibility, I don't know whether this is the case or not, that there are degrees of concierges, that I don't think all of the concierges would like very much being put in the same group, that there are probably honorable ones, noble ones, The rich hotel ones.

The ones where their salary covers the kickbacks from Sparrow.

They're all on the take. There's nothing wrong with that.

There is if it's covered.

It's part of the job.

No, but there is. What do you mean there's nothing wrong with that?

It's part of the job. You expect that.

They do have like driving services that they'll probably prioritize.

The job is not for them to get more money. The job, as hired by the hotel chain, is to give the customer a better experience and information than he or she would have otherwise had.

No, the job is to always get more more money, and your job is to be a sucker.

I happen to have a brochure right here for the best restaurant.

Oh, about parasailing. Imagine that.

So you guys really believe— all of you—

sunset cruise, all of you—

glass bottom boat—

that the concierge is compromised? As the— where are you?

You see what there is to see at Miami Sea Club?

I don't give a shit if the concierge is compromised. Like, the concierge isn't telling me shit places to go. There's still good places.

We could test this theory. We send somebody incognito to a concierge.

Why do they have to be incognito?

We work in a hotel.

Oh, you don't go up there and say, "Hey, I'm with The Levitard Show." You act like you're just part of the hotel.

Yeah, all snows and glasses.

We will be recognized.

What places they suggest, and then we decide, were these real suggestions or were these paid-for suggestions?

Ever been a more needless time for a disguise? Chris Cody in a trench coat.

Hello, sir.

Nah, just Bobby Valentine.

I have like a pipe.

Pipe.

He's like, sir, there's no smoking inside, sorry.

That's funny, you with a pipe as your costume. Just a pipe.

Me and my wife are looking for a place to dine this evening.

You should walk in with Ethan on your shoulders in a trench coat.

I am a sucker all my life for trusting the concierge. I trust the concierge.

That's not all.

To give me good information.

No, see, you just got to build a relationship. Like, yeah, they're, they're bought and paid for, but if you can, if you can strike that friendship from the jump, the longer you're there, the more you're getting a little extra. So it's like, I, I had an experience where I went, there was a concierge, I befriended him right at the beginning, and what did he do? He made it so that we could get some free champagne. I was on a Valentine's Day trip, he sent rose petals to the room.

I'm not a sucker.

How am I a sucker? You're a sucker.

Anyone can get roses.

I'm not a sucker, you're a sucker.

I didn't have to pay for shit because I built a relationship because I'm nice.

Nice. Built a relationship.

Me and Trevor.

Am I being fooled by the internet? What are the chances that I'm being fooled by the internet on this Pat McAfee album? Like, is it possible?

He had a single that was out. Yeah, yeah, he put a single out.

What kind of music does he play?

It was like jelly roll-ish. Yeah, yeah, like country-ish.

Hmm, okay, give me a, uh, hum a note.

Duque.

It is his pinned tweet on his Twitter. So if it's a bit, he's pushing it out.

I know if, if it seems sensational and, you know, like a heat check, it's real.

Greg, do you have any thoughts on all of what it is that we just discovered with layoffs? We were talking recently in a way that was emotional about Dave Hyde at the end of his career not getting the ending he wanted. Mike is being critical of sloppy shop, saying it can be done better than that. But I think there are a great many ways to do this poorly. And the way we're going in America with how corporations are run in a way that makes people feel dehumanized— you're toward the end of your writing career. You'd like to think you have control over how this ends. But I'm thinking that Carl Ravitch thought he might have some control. I wonder how Tim Kirtchen felt all around yesterday because Ravitch is gone because there's been a de-emphasis on baseball at ESPN because they They've got fewer games. So like their baseball department's going to be passing in Kirschen. And I don't— I haven't talked to Kirschen, but I don't know how safe anybody can feel.

Are we self-absorbed on television today?

I don't know how safe anybody can feel.

Well, when I read about all the layoffs, I did think of Tim Kirschen right away because he's of an age and presumably of a salary where he would be next. I mean, he would be a classic guy.

What are we doing right now?

I don't understand. What is this, guys?

And I hope it isn't true. But anytime a big corporation needs to have cutbacks, I think they owe it to the long-serving employees to at least offer them a buyout, at least offer them a chance to go out on their terms. Hear, hear. You know, I mean, what they shouldn't do is, is just abruptly fire somebody without in the background saying, look, retire on your own terms, take a healthy, you know, buyout and go out the way you want to go out.

The reason I asked the question, okay, I know that It's Carl Ravitch. It's a name that you know, but 33 years is a long time. My father, okay, this is the weakest I've ever seen my father. My father, who got all of his identity from his work, with no notice or thinking about it at all, comes into his office one day when he's 57 years old, the age that I am now, comes into his office and all the shit in the factory in Hialeah where he was working, where he was a plant manager, all of the stuff had just been thrown in garbage can, like everything from the desk and everything else, and he was just told to leave after for many, many years of service. And my dad went clinically crazy.

The—

what happened to him was such an identity break that when I had to see him, it was, it was literally in an asylum where somebody was clucking like a chicken. What does a corporation owe you after 33 years? I ask the question seriously. As we're getting very used to the wealth disparity, Miami is now the second least affordable place in the United States. It's passed New York for the first time, according to Bloomberg. What does a corporation owe Greg Cody, who has been there 33 years, has been there half a century, right, at the Miami Herald? What's he owed by the corporation?

I, I—

unfortunately nothing.

I don't think I'm owed the next year. I don't think I'm owed another future, another year in that company. What I do think I'm owed is the respect for me to fashion an exit on my terms. Yeah, whether that's they're allowing me, quote unquote, to retire or they're offering me a buyout I can't refuse. But, but to— and that's what hit me so hard about what happened to Dave Hyde across town at the Sun Sentinel, is that a titan in our industry, a titan in our industry, and for him to, to go out not on his terms, but in a way that was very abrupt and almost shocking to me, that's a slap in the face.

Support Dave Hyde Substack. I want our listeners to thunder over to the wrong Dave Hyde and help an old journalist a journalism friend do something in the modern media for something he was unprepared for? Because it's dirt. The game's gotten dirty, man. Like, maybe it's always been dirty. Maybe it's always been dirty, but it's never felt this unsafe to me.

I agree.

I think you're right. They— I don't think, unfortunately, they owe you actually anything, but I do think they absolutely owe you respect.

Right.

And there's certainly a respectful way to handle someone who they're going to let go.

What's that way?

It's to allow the person being fired to go out on his terms, to make it— to call it, I'm retiring.

The answer to them, Linda Cohn. You give them the tribute on the way out for the legacy talents that have been there. And I would lump Ryan into that. 10 years at ESPN is a very long time. It's a— because every, every offseason they're looking to spruce up their talent lineup with specific sports. Like, that is hard to do over there.

There.

I think that you call the person up and say, hey, this is what the numbers are. We're not going to bring you back, but we'd like to get the messaging right. We'd like to collaborate with you on what that looks like for all the great work that you've done here. Yeah, there is an easy— right. It's not a high bar.

Don't we have to assume that the Sun Sentinel did that with Dave Hyde and that they didn't come to an agreement? I mean, I know I'm— I have no—

that's not— but no, of course, that's the way you report.

But it just seems like, like it doesn't make any sense for them. He worked for them as long as my dad has worked for the Herald.

Like the, the bar, it would make no sense for them.

The bar is the attempt. You're, you're— it's a very difficult thing, as, as you know, being like, oh, it's a terrible thing, right? Like, you're not going to be— even if ESPN and a manager that you have a personal relationship with picks up the phone, more times than not someone's going to react negatively to that. But at least the effort is made.

What Chris Cody just said, though, if he'd been listening, Dave Hyde did explain He said he didn't have cover from his boss anymore, and the hedge fund people just said, that's a high salary, get it out of here. Doesn't feel very much like respect. It's not even a pendant. It's not even a pin. I don't know what respect looks like to the people listening to this, but you guys tell me after 33 years, any of you, wouldn't you be hurt no matter how it happened? But especially like, we can't— we do this one all the time where we say, oh, it's not what they did, it's how they did it. In this case, it's what they right? How they did it makes it worse, but it's what they did. After 33 years, they're deciding you no longer have value here. What changed? Where do I go? What do I do? I'm in the least desirable position there is— old white man in industry trying to get a new job right now at the age of whatever it is after I've worked 33 years someplace.

Yeah, and the fact is newspapers especially are cutting back staffs to bare-bones levels. And Dave Hyde or myself, they could hire 3 reporters for what we make after all these years. So it's just not financially smart to keep us. And that's a harsh reality.

Well, Greg, don't say that.

Yeah, walk up.

They need you.

You got to have that.

They need you over there.

You got that lev though.

So far, so far. We'll see about tomorrow.

Cluttered Mind blog thing.

Yeah, there you go.

Blog thing.

Podcast.

What lev does he have?

You got that lev, Greg?

I got a little lev. Got a little lev. Yeah.

I think lev's your lev.

I got lev. Trust me.

Lev?

Lev. With a B. Dan Levitar.

That's what you have.

Did you know dumb is spelled with a B? Not many people know that.

Zaslo, your thought on what's happening on all the televisions here with this heat story?

I don't like it. I saw, I looked up at the screen, SportsCenter, they had a full screen Miami Heat— did Heat leak LeBron press conference and like they're talking about it on a full screen and that's— A, it feels a little bit embarrassing, you know, for the organization, so I certainly don't like that. And B, there is a part of me that wonders if that angers LeBron. I don't like that.

Yeah, the first rule of social media is do no harm. Somebody did harm here by embarrassing the franchise, by potentially upsetting LeBron James for trampling all over his big announcement.

I am happy that if there was some sort of change of heart from LeBron, that it's because of the YouTube thing and not my—

What was the rule? What was the— what were you saying is the rule there?

Do no harm.

Isn't that journalism?

Doctors, isn't it?

Medicine, isn't it?

It's medicine. It's also social media. Do no harm.

I don't think that's a rule in social media.

Somebody who did the harm is going to be fired. Somebody's head's rolling right now across the street, rolling down Biscayne Boulevard.

Social media, you guys would agree that If doctors, uh, by slogan, if their ethos is do no harm, social media is the very opposite of that. Social media is do harm, do harm everywhere, spread quickly like a virus and do more harm. That's not what social media is. What are you talking about?

The social media for a team, you, the harm they did was embarrassing the entire franchise. With a premature, if not false, display on YouTube or whatever social media outlet it was. It's embarrassing. Somebody's head will roll. Somebody deserves to be fired for that. I hate to say it.

Whoa, whoa.

I hate to say it, but you can't do that. If you're running Miami Heat social media, that is inexcusable to prematurely put out something of that nature.

A guy forgot to check a box.

You never fire anybody.

We don't forget to check boxes over here. We're the Miami Heat. Let me say that again. We're the Miami Heat.

We work hard, right?

Yeah, we do.