Transcript of People Are Largely Good? People Are Largely Good! | Hour 3 (feat. Michelle Beadle and Mike Ryan)

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Und so viele Pollen.

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Chris, it's Saturday, not Friday night— you're sending people on the wrong day to the— So get the day right. And you know what that sound means? Don't blame anybody else. Get the day right when you're promoting something. That sound means that Mike is joining us from Mexico at the same exact time that Michelle Beatle is joining us. We call her Michel Bietel. Because we've decided to do that at the moment. Yes. So, so Mike is at the World Cup enjoying World Cup things, and Michelle Beatle is also here. I'll try to navigate those two things as we do them. Let me start with Michelle here real quick. Michelle, your thoughts, and thank you for joining us. Your thoughts on now Wembley being chased down by the original Wembley model that is 10 years older and is now in Miami.

I'm happy for Bobby Portis. I think that's going to be a fun little weather upgrade. No state tax, correct? Um, look, it's, it's great. I'm happy for all of us because we don't have to talk about what's Giannis going to do anymore. I think those are my first two winners of the trade. And also, I'm waiting to see what else they're going to do because this doesn't feel like enough. But I do— I'm a big believer in a change of scenery. So from that standpoint alone, there's value in this. Um, but I think Milwaukee— I think Milwaukee did a pretty darn good job, to be honest. I've heard some referring to it as fleecing the Heat. I wonder what you guys think about that, because that seems strong to me.

Well, let's go to Mike Ryan here, and we'll get his World Cup Mexico coverage in a second. But Mike, you have to be excited now that Pat Riley has finally landed a whale. So your thoughts on the Heat being fleeced?

I'm just happy that they made an aggressive move that hurts. This has been something that we've been pining for, for, you know, 5 years at least. And in an interesting turn of events, it kind of felt like the Boston media became what they hate the most. They actually became Heat fans. Not wanting to part with guys like Hugo Gonzalez. All of a sudden you start becoming what you hate. But I'm really happy that Miami got a superstar. It seems like it's really difficult to build a roster from here, but it's going to be a fascinating challenge. I think that, you know, they got a much better base to build around and I'm excited to see where it goes. I'm pumped for Pat Riley. I'm pumped for Heat fans.

Michelle, huh?

Let me ask you this, or at least throw that out there, because Boogie Cousins should patent this. He called it Milwaukee with palm trees. Do we have any takers on that?

No, that's trash.

I kind of liked it. I kind of loved it.

Yeah, they, they seem to be the worst shooting team in the league right now with not a lot of money or assets to improve the team. So I'm curious. They're going to lean on their development. I do think that they're going to make the playoffs and get out of that, you know, play-in hell that they've been in for the last few years just because this team is going to be built on defensive effort and the night-in, night-out grind of an 82-game season. They should have a nice little seed. Attached to their names come playoff time. And then they're going to be hell to play against even if they don't add anybody. But they certainly don't have the scoring punch to be real title contenders at this moment. They're going to have to add. And I'm not even looking at the teams above them. I'm, I'm looking at a team like Indiana that is going to get healthy and chase them from the bottom. But look, at least they have a shot now, whereas before they were just, you know, twisting in the wind.

See, that feels like change of scenery to me. I feel like we're, we're kind of celebrating that everybody gets a fresh start. And we all know that honeymoon period when you do sort of switch teams, um, it's valuable and it's big in sports. So I'm wondering if that's what we're going to look at here. That first year is going to be fun for both, and then it maybe evens out. But yeah, y'all need shooters. Like, I don't know, the Norman Powell of it all seems to be like, that's not gonna happen. So I, I don't, I don't understand where the shooting's coming from. Maybe somebody blossoms. That's not where I want to put all my eggs. Somebody might blossom.

Mike, is that your hotel room?

Yeah, where are you, dude?

Yeah, I'm in, uh, what Lou Dobbs calls Waterloo. And yeah, I got a sick hammock and a pool table back there.

Yeah.

What is happening right now?

Exchange rate, baby.

Let's hear from Lou Dobbs on what we thought was him trying to say Guadalajara.

Oh, no, no, no, that was not.

No, he tried.

That was real.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's Lou Dobbs. But it wasn't Guadalajara. It was something else. It was like—

Oaxaca.

It was Oaxaca.

It was Oaxaca. There was an accent there. There was an accent there.

That was the speed bump.

He was like, Oaxaca. Oaxaca.

Oaxaca.

It sounds like baklava to me now.

I can't—

I'm never going to get that out of my head. No, you've been around the world, Lou. Why?

Oaxaca.

I do want to mention on the shooting front, when it comes to the Heat, Bobby Portis is a guy who obviously in his career has shot the ball really well. 46% last year from 3. Davion Mitchell shot right around 40%. Andrew Wiggins shot a career high. At nearly 42%. Those are guys who are just on the roster right now, let alone guys like, first of all, Chris Middleton, who is, is a likely option, but Klay Thompson as well is a name that I've heard that the Heat could be looking for. And you're talking about guys who are obviously past their prime but are guys who can space the floor and hit open shots, as well as anything else they can add potentially through sign-and-trade if Norman Powell is indeed on the move. So there's, there's a lot more involved in this.

Michelle, outside of—

I like Klay.

Outside of San Antonio, Michelle, there's not another team a team that you'd trust more organizationally to find and build, uh, gems, uh, that other people pass on? Like, it's San Antonio and Miami are the standard there.

That is the place that, uh, sort of defined culture as we all seem to know it in this league. Um, yeah, you know, you— I don't know how to put this classily. Um, but yeah, you just, you, you respect and you trust in Pat Riley, and you just sort of go, okay, obviously signing and bringing in Giannis— and again, I love Bobby P, so I'm big fan of you guys doing that. Um, I don't know why I'm you guysing you, but I am. But it's just also, you, you want to make sure that more is coming. And because we trust in Pat Riley, we assume so. The Klay Thompson thing, there's a lot of water for his boat. Like, that's not a bad idea at all. And I don't know that he's happy with what he's found himself in, in Dallas. So, oh, I don't hate that as well. But yeah, we trust in Pat Riley. And until he sort of loses his fastball or shows that, we, we have to, right? Like, that's sort of the rule. I'm not an ageist. I'm not going to sit here and say he's lost his fastball.

No way.

You're not getting me to do that.

Ever.

Michelle, we haven't had a chance to talk to you after the Spurs.

Yeah.

And the Finals. So can you give us just how you felt about the whole experience?

I was sitting behind Andrew Schultz for that game. So it really was hell. It was hell on earth, the entire thing. But, you know, it's funny, I've been sick for a week since, and I don't know if that— it's got to be related, right? It can't be completely not related.

It's—

the future is bright. And like, I really— I do think that that Knicks team, and I've said this the whole time, like, I may not love the fans, but I think the team is so darn likable. That it's just, it sort of angers you a little bit. I do like that there now is friction between how we, like the Spurs, play them and how they sort of refer to the Spurs as it's all sort of come and gone. But yeah, it hurt. It would have been nice to get just like another win, just have 2 up on the board. But I think it's a good learning block and I'm not worried about the future at all. I'm a little worried what OKC is planning on doing in this draft because God knows they're trying. But I think we're going to be all right. We'll be back plenty of times.

What do you think is fairer that if If you had to choose one, not that it is one, that the Spurs were too young and simply did not know how to close and didn't have a killer, or they were really tired at the end of season and at the end of games, and Jalen Brunson has been doing that at the end of games for 3 straight years.

If I had to pick one of those, I would say it's weird too, because it's kind of, it's sort of, I'm going to contradict myself. I think the young thing did start to show itself sort of in the way things kind of would become unraveled. Problem with that theory, however, is De'Aaron Fox was the most unraveled at times, and he was the whole reason he's there is his veteran presence. So it was very difficult to kind of put those two things together. I don't know that they're tired. I mean, look, you can't say you're young and tired at the same time, right? Like, as a 50-year-old, I'm not giving a 20-year-old that excuse. I can't and I won't. So I think that there was a naive quality to sort of the playoffs themselves. And honestly, you can put that on Mitch Johnson as well. Like, that's his first time. So like I said, if you don't learn from that, then, then I would be concerned. But I have every reason to believe that all of this will be learned from moving forward. And I have no idea what they plan on doing in the offseason.

I'll be curious and excited to see the moves. But man, sucked being in that building for that day.

Michelle, what did you make of the narrative around Wembenyama shifting so dramatically?

Oh, I'm sorry, because everyone got sensitive and decided he's a villain. Love it. I love it so much. Make him the villain. Honestly, I'd rather root for a villain than a hero anyways. Who doesn't? What actor has ever said, "Love playing the good guy"? Nobody ever. So villain for me, we'll take it. I don't care that he's quote unquote bad sport, which I find hilarious as adults, we're still worried about that. I was a bad sport growing up. I think I'm a perfectly great human being now, so he'll be fine. But I do love that he's got, that's his character now. He has a character in this league and what he does with it, will be truly the test, because we've seen guys in this league that were assassins that didn't make friends, and they turned out to be a couple of the greatest of all time in Kobe and MJ. So I'm okay if he's going to be a villain. Be a villain.

Michelle, thank you. Nice seeing you. Thank you for toughing it out for you guys. I can hear it. I can hear it in your voice the same way you can hear it in mine. But thank you for being with us.

We're going to make it. It's getting old. We're getting old, Dan. Now everything makes us sick.

I think Paul Rudd—

I think Paul Rudd has enjoyed playing the good guy.

I think I pushed Tom Hanks.

@LeBittardShow, uh, does the actor, uh, prefer or actress prefer to play the hero or the villain? @LeBittardShow. Thank you, Michelle.

I think it's just actor.

Uh, is it?

Okay, I think so.

Uh, thank you for the help.

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Dan Levitar.

I don't think strange for me, but like Mike Ryan.

Oh boy.

This is the Dan Levitar Show.

Let's go back out here to Mike Ryan because he was supposed to be joining us for World Cup coverage.

Is he sleeping on a hammock like as the bed, or does he have a bed somewhere else and also has the hammock to hang out? The bed's upstairs, Tony. I'm just making sure.

Oh, my man got upstairs.

He's got a pool table over there and Upstairs. So what— tell us, uh, which do you prefer to talk about right now? Would you prefer to talk about Giannis, or would you prefer to talk about the World Cup and how you're immersed in the World Cup?

Uh, Brady Kachuk. It's kind of nuts that the Panthers have a new best player on their team, you know. That, that, uh, God, God bless Giannis. I think we all know what his high end looks like, especially in the NBA Finals a couple years ago. But I think you can make a strong argument in a debate that Brady Kachuk is presently a better superstar right now than Giannis, at least a more certain product than Giannis, given his age and what we just saw last year. So I'm hugely pumped about what Zito and the Panthers did in acquiring Brady Kachuk. It's crazy that they have a new best player when Barkov is on the team. Brady Kachuk fits in so well with this team in terms of being a two-way player. And as Michele said, it's fun being the bad guy. We somehow even got more unlikable. With this trade, which I, I can't wait to see the season play out. And it doesn't seem like they're done. It looks like Bob is gone and they're gonna try to upgrade at the goalie position. If they get— if they somehow get Hellebuck too, which I don't think is even possible, but if they get Hellebuck too, this is probably the most loaded team we've ever put together.

Mike, I'm super pumped about Brady Tkachuk also, obviously, and the Panthers are without question a Stanley Cup contender, if not one of the favorites. But Giannis is bigger than Brady Kachuck. Like, Giannis is a lot better at what he does than Brady Kachuck is. And I'm so happy with Brady Kachuck.

Yeah, I think high-end ceiling, I'm not going to debate. I think part of the reason that we've been— look, we've been talking about Giannis for like 3 years, it seems. I think that there are— I don't think that the time is now to poke holes in the fears of what Giannis may develop into. There were signs of that last year. I won't debate you. His high-end ceiling if he can recapture that form of a couple of years ago, he's one of the best players in the league. But I also think Brady Tkachuk is one of the best players in the league. And I don't think Florida fans or hockey fans in general are all that familiar with him because he— like what he did with Ottawa this season, particularly before the Olympics. I just think the world of this guy. I think he's much better than Matthew. And I love Matthew.

Whoa.

You think he's much better than Matthew?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's certainly more talented. He's certainly a goal scorer that you can depend on more. He's got more goal scoring punch.

Bigger hitter.

Yeah, he's big, physical. He plays in so well to what Florida is doing. I— and look, he's young. I think he's going to continue to improve. It's an interesting debate. Look, if you want to tell me Giannis is irrefutably better, I understand the passion behind that. But I think the Florida Panthers pretty much just guaranteed a path to the Eastern Conference Finals. And I like that they gave Carolina a day to celebrate.

Their forwards obviously are loaded. I just do worry about Bobrovsky, 38, gone. That's not a small piece, right? I don't, I don't know how worried you guys are about that, but you can't just go in with goaltending problems no matter how good you are up front.

You don't have to have a great goaltender to win the Stanley Cup anymore. Typically, you needed a guy to get hot. Look who just won the Stanley Cup for, for Carolina. They had a goalie change in the middle of that series. And it's not like Bob was tremendous. During his time in Florida. Yeah, there were stretches where he made big-time saves, but keep in mind how this entire run started for Florida. It started with Alex Lyon. Bob had lost his job.

Yeah, but when they were, when they were winning championships, Mike, he was great.

Yeah, you know, he was, he was good, and certainly individual games he was great. It was a bit of a roller coaster with Bob. I, my, my point is I don't think Bob is going to be that difficult to replace. I think when you juxtapose it with the challenge in front of the Heat's front office, that is That mountain is way more steep.

I was expecting a lot more enthusiasm, enthusiasm from Mike from this because you were out on the Heat for so long and so critical because they haven't gotten this done. They seems like they still got some like winning back of your heart to do.

Like, that's not an indictment of the Heat. That's a celebration of the Panthers.

He's that right?

I know.

I'm saying it.

Yeah, I saw when he did the transition. No, I'm pumped for the Heat too. I'm sure Jeremy has spoken for like the excited Heat fan right now. This is something that I've been begging for for years and I'm happy that it happened. I think it probably underscores some moves that they probably should have made earlier. Look, the Jimmy Butler acquisition was a great acquisition ultimately, but people forget Pat Riley had an opportunity to acquire Jimmy Butler before that. Didn't want to part with Josh Richardson at the time Philadelphia got him. And that's another half season that could have played into a larger Heat window. And I think you look at some of the guys that Miami finally felt compelled to move. I think individually you could have gotten more for them and in separate deals and you wouldn't have a roster that is as depleted right now. But it's not— again, I don't want to be the guy that's a party pooper when it comes to acquiring Giannis. This is like the guy that's been leading on the front lines. Please do something. They finally did something. They changed up this roster. We go into next season with something different, something exciting, a huge star to build around.

It's a great day to be a Heat fan.

I don't believe there's any scenario, Mike, where Bill Zito does not have a clear-cut plan what they're going to do and goal. And by the way, I still think Bobrovsky is going to be back. Like, I know what Bobrovsky is asking for. Apparently it's like a 5, 6-year deal and it's compared to like, hey, you know, is gonna get that Marchand treatment, you know, where at 38 years old he still gets the 6 years. And here's a major difference, like Marchand, even if he drops off, he's a third line player. You can move him to another line if you want. There are all kinds of different spots you can move an aging skater. When Bobrovsky is showing the age, you're not paying the guy. I mean, you're not playing him, and he's sitting on the bench and he's being paid a ton of money. I don't think he's gonna get the years that he's looking for. I think he's going to be back with the team.

Sergey Bobrovsky.

It's— yeah, your guess is as good as mine.

I've heard it's better.

He's just— he's, he's asking for an insane amount of money. And if, if he's trying to command that much money, I think we'd go for someone younger. And there have been some interesting names out there, Bennington, like that. I, I just think that you can replace Sergey Bobrovsky. I do hope that he stays because, you know, as a Florida Panthers fan, I do have loyalty to the guy. I. He made some great all-time saves that are franchise-changing. So we'll see. I have no doubt. I think Bill Zito has earned the trust.

Sergey Bobrovsky. The World Cup, Mike, you're at the middle. You're in Mexico. And what is, what is the reason that you've decided to, to just immerse yourself here in all things World Cup and leave Miami where there's plenty of World Cup immersing us? Because the streets here are crazy. It's everywhere.

So much trash.

There is so much partying going on in our city and yet so much trash as well.

Yeah, I'm a little envious that the people of South Florida got to experience the Tartan Army because I think in Miami, since it's my home, it doesn't really feel like a World Cup. It felt more like a World Cup when I went to New York and I was at the center of all those cultures combining. And this is going to sound really stupid to say, but it wasn't until I traveled to another country for the World Cup that I truly realized how massive of an event this is. Like, when those players step onto the pitch, truly, like, most sport fans on the planet are watching a guy from Algeria step onto a Levi's Stadium pitch, and they're fully aware of, you know, Flo Balogun and Christian Pulisic. It's just everyone in the world celebrating one thing at the same time. I went to, um, this place called La Minerva, uh, which was like a central square here in Guadalajara that the Colombians just took over, and it was a huge pep rally. It was part Lollapalooza, part high school pep rally. People were getting thrown in the air, and it was just such a, such an incredible overwhelming sensation of culture and joy.

The vibes are incredible, and I think Jeremy, being around the Tartan Army yesterday, would tell you it's just a largely positive thing. And I didn't know that I really needed such a positive experience in my life until I started undergoing it. You know, we have morally abhorrent— we've well chronicled the vibes headed into this tournament, but the people are the real stars here. And it's been pretty uplifting to see all the joy that has been attached to this event. I, like I said, I had no idea how badly I needed this in my life. It's been great to experience the Colombian people, the Mexican people. We're going to experience some people from DR, Congo. I'm really excited to see Lumumba in person. And yeah, I said it the last time I was on the show. I recommend if I know the ticket prices are a lot for a lot of people, but if you're considering the sacrifice, do it because this is the coolest thing I've ever done.

It's not— it's not a lot when you can afford a hotel room that comes complete with a carport.

Two floors, baby.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, this is like, again, the exchange rate. This is basically a couple of value meals.

This place has been unbelievable with these Scottish fans. The Tartan Army, like you mentioned it, Mike, the positivity that comes off of these people, it was such a joy to witness. And like, let alone the energy that they brought to the ballpark. First of all, out of the $5 beers at the ballpark before first pitch, these people were drinking like monsters. But even as they were drinking, there was nothing but like embrace of all of the, the Miami fans who hadn't met them before. I was fortunate enough to just be in the middle of it, meeting all of these people and It's all just positivity. They all wanted to know more about the game.

They drank Boston Dry.

Dan, have you been around drunk people in Miami? It's not a lot of positivity.

They drank Boston Dry.

And the positivity was beautiful. It's awesome that they drank Boston Dry. I wore a kilt. It was spectacular. And people were embracing me in this, this amazing way, saying like, welcome to the Tartan Army. And to have that, to bring that energy and finish off with that that 30 minutes later being Yanis trade news. This is like one of the most positive and incredible 16-hour stretches of my sports life. It was amazing.

People are largely good, and I think we've been watching cable television for so long that we've just soured on people as a whole because our leaders have kind of let us down. But that's been my main takeaway from this experience, from being in a bar with people rooting on Iran to being in a central square with children being tossed in the air and just absolute joy everywhere is people are just searching to have a good time together. And that's what this tournament, for all its failings and for all of its capitalism, has provided.

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Dan Levatar!

Ah, bi!

Jonathan Sasslow!

Thank you!

This is the Dan Levatar Show!

Can you tell us where you are with the Heat? Okay, because the Miami Heat are mad at me because of what I've allowed you to say without control. Control on this show. You may have noticed that I did not have any Giannis information from any angle at any point because our show, uh, recently has not, uh, had the tone that the Heat would prefer when it comes to how it is that they are covered.

I mean, I feel like maybe they were upset about you allowing Mike to say those things, but it could also be the things that you do and say.

Well, the Knicks—

I don't know.

The Knicks costumes also did not go over—

can't imagine it did—

incredibly well either. But we are viewed as a largely pro-Miami Heat show. And when Dominique says there's access trading and some of the information trading that goes on, you should know that this show did not have any Giannis information beforehand because this show prides itself on its independence and was more critical than the Heat would have liked. So where are you now, Mike, on the fact that over the last 5 years, while you have been largely right, but they've also made 2 Finals appearances, they now also have the whale?

Uh, look, I, I don't doubt that the Heat are mad that someone's actually holding them accountable and saying how it's been for the last few years. And I think we're getting out of the window where we can say it's been 5 years since they made the Finals. I think we all got to get over that, that, that core, that nucleus is is pretty much gone. Yeah, the Miami Heat have gone largely unchecked as a franchise here, and we've been a huge part of that. And I can understand why they don't like someone saying how it is. That's all right.

We did have good—

we did have good Giannis news, though. We had some juicy industry gossip that we were right about Jalen Brown being involved in that trade when everybody else was saying no, we just weren't getting it from the Miami Heat. And when I look back at the Damian Lillard stuff, good. Because we were hugely annoying and we failed Miami by doing the Heat's bidding during that Damian Lillard pursuit. So you could see kind of Boston replicate that almost blow for blow here. So it's just not a flattering look. So I'm glad we, we've kind of toned that down.

I think we're— Dan and I both keep throwing up the opportunity as Mike Ryan, the leader—

going the wrong way here.

Yeah, we got to go this way, not backwards. We got to go forwards, guys.

Guys, turn that thumb in this direction.

And so we got a lot of work to do.

I—

look, I'm happy that they're happy, and I'm happy that they get the, the chance to—

you're happy that they're happy?

Are you happy?

Yeah.

Are you happy?

Yeah, yeah, they did what I wanted. What, am I going to be an a-hole because they, they did exactly what I've been begging for for a few seasons? No, I'm pumped. I want to see Yanis in person. Uh, I'm, I'm excited that we get out of this, you mundane cycle that we've been in for the last, you know, 3 seasons. I'm curious to see how this all fits. I think they're going to be hell to play against and they got a shot, whereas before they didn't have a shot. So if I were them, I'd pump my chest out, especially if I was Pat Riley, like, yeah, yeah, we finally got the whale. But you got the whale doing a deal that hurts, which has been the main criticism here. So if anything, I think all that stuff has been validated.

Yeah, but I would say that the Miami Heat fan base is incredibly spoiled. It's been a year between Jimmy Butler and Giannis, and I understand that that last year of Jimmy Butler was messy, but it's been a year and they did make the Finals 2 times in the last 5, 6 years. Like, it's— we can be critical, but also we can be critical while incredibly spoiled because this last year, while it was awful, does get the impatience to grow to a volume that is pretty unreasonable.

One thing Mike and I have agreed on always is that the, the intermediate trade was something that, that could have been done to improve that roster. The OG Anunoby, Pascal Siakam, we've gone through that. The reason they were able to land a star now is because not necessarily Pat Riley, but the rest of the front office drafting as well as they did over the last few years, gaining guys in Kasperis Jokic, Jonas, and Kalou Ware with high ceilings in first-round picks in the middle of the first round. And so being able to do that alongside having Hawkins and Hero, this was a testament to the front office putting themselves in position to have valuable assets that didn't exist in these previous star pursuits, whether it was Damian Lillard or anybody else.

Yeah, and just to like close the point, like, I hate it You know what that means.

Of course, Ramona Shelburne is with us. That's the alarm that signals her arrival. Go ahead and finish your point, Mike.

I think it's kind of a loser attitude to say that fans are spoiled. You know, back when Miami was struggling, the University of Miami was struggling, there was somebody in the athletic department that said, you have to look at us more like Vanderbilt.

Built.

No, the standards are in place for a reason. The Miami Heat set the standard where it was. It's not okay that they've had the last few seasons. I think everybody in that building will tell you that to your face while also lamenting the fact that people have held them accountable for failing to reach that standard. They want it both ways, the Miami Heat do. And I get it. They've had a lot of success and there's a lot of ego in that building and they just got Giannis. So more power to them. But we've been calling it right since they failed against Denver. They needed to do something drastically to improve this roster.

It's been—

okay, it's a very effective tool.

It's a very effective tool.

Please continue.

I'm going to, uh, please, please continue. A lot of tequila.

Please continue, Mike.

Happy Honest Day.

Please finish your point, Mike. Continue, please.

I'm good. Thank you very much. Enjoy celebrating soccer with you all.

See you later.

Have fun with the water moon.

Uh, Ramona, thank you for Thank you for joining us.

Your thoughts on the overnight activities of the Milwaukee Bucks and the Miami Heat.

Well, Dan, you know, I've been going down to Miami a lot this year for some reason. And I was there in— I guess it was— was it April or March? I think it was— I think it was March. And I had flown to Florida to meet with Wes Edens and Jimmy Haslam. OK, they were in Fort Lauderdale, the owners of the Bucks. I was doing a story and I just thought it was weird that I was flying out to Miami to meet them, but okay. And then I flew back in April to interview Jaylen Brown. So I'm having a bit of a sliding doors moment myself, which is that both— I flew to Miami just recently for two— for all of the people who were involved in this trade. And the Heat ended up getting Giannis. And it's like, it's kind of blowing my mind that they actually set their sights on this guy years ago. Like, you know how long they've been trying to get Giannis. They've been positioning for this summer for a long time, whether it be to have cap space or whether it be to have the assets. They've held on to their assets.

They haven't gone all in on other trades so they could be in a spot like this. And I didn't know if they would get him. I thought the appeal of the Jaylen Brown offer was, was going to be hard for Milwaukee to pass up because when you trade a guy like Giannis, who's going to come to your games now? Like, who, who are— who are your fans going to come and watch? They want to know you're trading the greatest player in franchise history. Nobody— Kareem played there a long time ago, so I'm just talking about current fans. You got to put butts in the seats. And when you trade a guy like Giannis, you want to see another star. Jaylen Brown's another star. So it's— it— I thought that was gonna be too much for them to pass up, but you got to give the Bucks credit. They went for the stronger offer, the overall offer that gives them a lot more to work with here. And they're, you know, they're not going to be as good next year, right? It's hard to make a deal like that. And I just keep coming back to this Pat Riley.

You know, it's funny. He's like, there's the— I was here at his— look at this. This was him like at the Laker statue unveiling just a couple months ago. And it felt like he had— and by the way, that is a Giannis bobblehead right there on my other shoulder or that shoulder.

Speaking of the Lakers. Speaking of the Lakers, right?

Yeah.

Speaking of the Lakers, I mean, Barry Jackson down here, Ramona, has said that LeBron James returning to Miami can't be ruled out. What are your thoughts there?

Look, I had talked to the Lakers earlier this week. You know, everybody's getting prepped for free agency and the draft and they're allowed to talk to LeBron right now. And from what I understand, like LeBron hasn't even committed to next year yet, which, you know, everything's a negotiation, right? I don't really believe he's going to retire, but we all have to have that in the back of our minds. But they haven't talked salary yet. We haven't talked about, you know, if this would be a pay cut. You know, it's not going to be $52 million like last year. So how is he going to digest if it's less? Even if the Lakers can pay him a lot more than anybody else, you know LeBron, you guys had him for 4 years down there. How's he gonna— how's he gonna digest that? But he— that somebody would make him take a pay cut? I think I think that's hard. And everybody in LA sort of understood that this is going to be part of that negotiation. And so, okay, Miami can't really pay him all that much. I mean, there's not a lot left, but if LeBron wants to win and LeBron also needs, if he's going to, I think it's easier for him to break up with the Lakers than it is for the Lakers to break up with them, with him, right?

If you're going to break up the Lakers, you got to have a story. All right, there's got to be a reason for doing it. It can't just be because I don't want to take a pay cut or whatever it is. Miami's good story. Cleveland would be a good story. I think Golden State would be a good story. So, so I wouldn't have said Miami until they did this last night, but those 3 teams make sense to me. I still think he's back in LA because they can pay him a lot more than anybody else. His son's on the team. But like, let's— I, I wouldn't say never now. And, and that is really— I'm gonna just come back to his bobblehead Okay, I don't know if it's a bobblehead, it's a bronze statue. They gave it out when they—

It's not a bobblehead. It's not, it's a, you're a words woman and it's not a bobblehead.

Yeah, it's something I put on my bobblehead shelf, but it's not a bobblehead. It is a bronze Pat Riley statue.

I'm gonna ask you the same question that I asked Ernie Johnson. How many teams in the league off the top of your head have at the top of their roster two players better than Bam and Giannis?

Who's a good question. We think about that. I mean, the team that just won has— I don't know what you say. I don't know that I would say Jalen Brunson's better than— well, he's better than Bam. OK. Giannis is a top 3 player in the league still. Everybody in the league. I don't know that you would have him. You wouldn't put Giannis above Wemby anymore. I think Wemby showed enough. But I don't think the second best player on the Spurs is as good as is as good as if Tatum comes back.

Celtics, Nuggets, Lakers are your choices.

Well, is LeBron still on the Lakers? I mean, that's about it. You know, if LeBron's still on the Lakers, I'd say Luka and LeBron. Yeah. LeBron's still really good. Yeah, that's, that's it. I don't know. I wouldn't— I would— Jamal Murray and Bam would be close. Jokic, you know, that's— it's a— Dan, you know, you know Pat Riley. You've done this for a long time. He— when you have the star, everything falls into place. But I think this is really more about the fact that they wouldn't tank all those years, that they tried to stay competitive. I know everybody hated all those play-in tournament appearances, and it just feels kind of cheap to just keep getting in as the 9 or 10 seed and hoping you can catch some magic. But, but it matters because you were developing players, you were trying to win. You still had that Heat culture. You still— you were still trying. When you full-on tank, I think it kills your competitive spirit. I think it kills that culture. I haven't seen many people be able to— well, obviously Oklahoma City has been able to do that. San Antonio did that for just a hot minute, but it takes a long time to shake off the losing.

You can't just do it overnight. And I give the Heat a lot of credit. They stuck with it through these I mean, what the hell kind of defense were they playing last year? They were just doing all this gimmick stuff. They've been trying to just, you know, tread water, waiting for this star and keep their assets ready for this moment. And I give them credit for hanging in there because not a lot of people would, you know, not a lot of people would be able to stomach what they've had to go through, that mediocrity the last few years.

Ramona, thank you for making the time for us. We appreciate seeing you and always the information and the work. Good work. Thank you.

And now I come down to Miami for Giannis and not, not somebody else's interview. That'll be fun.

That's correct. Thank you. I do. I do think, though, I know that Mike, Mike objects to spoiled, but you don't always get to get the superstars like it's LeBron, Shaq, and Giannis.

It's a lot.

Yeah, we do, Dan.

We do get the superstar.

We've done it over and over again.

It's what we do.

That's what we do.

Here.

For 3.