Transcript of Brian Windhorst Steals From Stephen A. Smith's Office? | Hour 2

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That was super rude and disrespectful what we did to Amin, and we will not do it again. Uh, let's play for Amin though. The sound from Bill Simmons. Bill Simmons and his crew did an emergency pod to state that the Miami Heat are not contenders. And so here they were last night reacting to the news immediately.

Is Giannis on a better team now than he was yesterday?

I don't think so.

I would say Bam's a better teammate. Maybe the front office is a little more motivated, but I don't think this team's a title contender.

Do you?

This is going to test two of Miami's kind of like big myths of self-belief that they have, which is A, we're an attractive destination for top-tier talent to come.

Not untrue.

And B, we trust our development so much that we can turn coal into diamonds wherever we look. And they're really going to have to dig now because they need to find 4 more guys. This might be a playoff team in the East, but this is not a title team.

I mean, he said the myths of Miami. And that they can turn coal into diamonds. And I would just say, okay, who else has a track record? When you say Duncan Robinson and Max Struess and Gabe Vincent, okay, those guys are recent. But what about Ike Austin? What about Vashon Leonard? What about James Johnson and Hassan Whiteside? And you go throughout all the way to the beginning of his tenure. One thing they do really well is finding the guy that anyone could have had. That's the The moral of the story is that any one of these 29 other teams could have had them, and some in fact did have them and didn't do anything with them. But we did, right? That's what Miami front office hangs its hat on. And I don't think that's in question. Uh, what Bill is saying is technically accurate. If this is the roster, all 7 or 8 guys under contract, yeah, they can't contend for a title. They can't even compete in an NBA game because they don't have enough filled roster spots. But we know that the work is still yet to be done. There are more trades to be done, there are more signings to be done.

There's more digging for coal lumps to turn into diamonds, to use Chris's analogy. And so you can be technical and say, today, are they a contender? And say no. And I would agree they're not today. But the idea is, A, how can we build this thing out? And B, and this is a big one, when you guys acquired Jimmy Butler in 2019 and you guys said, oh, he's not a superstar. And I said, Yes, he is. And he said, well, he can't win a championship by himself. And I said, well, that's not the point. The point is now you just made a big step to make other steps coming along the way. Do I think the Heat are going to win the title this year? The odds are probably not. But the idea isn't they did it for this year and this year only, and if it doesn't happen this year, oh my God, our whole life is over. This is a continuous process and you just keep building and adding to it.

I think the point that Amin started with is the, the right one. When you have those big trades, I think back to Luka as like the most enormous trade. None of those teams already immediately. It's unfair to analyze whether they can win the championship right then because you have to give up a lot to get something like that done. Your roster isn't currently constructed to be built around that player. But where I do find the criticism to be fair about this team's potential to win the championship is understanding that under the new second apron era, where you kind of are dealing with more hard caps, how difficult it's going to be to bring in other talented players. Which is why we get back to the, like, making these players, building, developing these players. If a team has to do that, the Heat are a team that can potentially do that. But I mean, do you see room or maneuvers with specific players in the future, or is it unfair to be looking for that right now? I think it's hard to find a path. I think is where the criticism is fair, is like, yes, you got the quarterback.

Every team needs a quarterback to win a championship. It's hard to find. You get one in the NBA, you got one, you can do it. Is there a path?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's absolutely a path. I get it. I wasn't a part of that.

I think, you know, you know what that means. I'm sorry, Amin. Brian Windhorst is with us. Brian Windhorst has been reporting and opining on this for several days, among the most credible people in the business. Brian, thank you. I know you're very busy today. What are your over— you want to say something?

What's the thought process with that.

It happened at midnight. We were in a big hurry. We do a show in the morning. There's not a lot of time for imaging.

They would have beheaded Jeremy for that, by the way.

I'd be killed in the street.

Just enough, all of you, for questioning the imaging. It just— we don't work.

No, not the imaging, the sounding.

Yes, it's an alarm. It's an alarm signaling that Giannis has been acquired and that we are in a state of emergency. Thank you.

Yes, it was him.

And I've got a cold. It wasn't him. It was me. But my lungs don't have any capacity. Brian, can you tell me what you make of the overreaction the overnight developments, and clearly Milwaukee squeezed a little more out of Miami than Miami was comfortable giving over the last couple of days with Boston getting involved.

Yeah, well, this is the pathway. This is the way that Pat Riley has won the championships. He has Alonzo Mourning, then it was Shaquille O'Neal, then it was LeBron James, then it was Jimmy Butler. Did I forget a star in there? Do you count Goran Dragic? You know, is Goran Dragic same type of thing? Not the same level of star. This is the Heat recipe to go to a championship. So they have a star. He's in his prime. He wants to stay in Miami. I anticipate he'll sign. And now the challenge will be on, you know, Andy Ellisberg and Pat Riley and, you know, the development and, you know, Adam Simon and the front office from the Heat to put a team around him because they paid a lot. And the one thing that was different about this time than the other times is now you have to deal with aprons. And I know it's so annoying. I have, I have friends who are NBA fans and they hate when I say the word apron. They just, they want to, they want to turn off what they're watching at. But the Heat have, You know, they're a little bit, you know, restricted in how they're going to be able to build this year's team.

But Giannis has years in his prime left. This is, you know, a multi-year thing. I would never put anything past the Heat. I don't anticipate them being able to compete for the championship this year, but I would anticipate them being able to build a championship contender over the next, you know, 12 to 18 months.

You've snuck into Stephen A.'s office again, haven't you?

Did you have to bring that up? Like, I just barely got away with it last time. I was hoping you— I was hoping nobody would notice. And he reprimanded me for that. And he's wearing a cowboy hat behind you.

I wouldn't assume that was in your office.

There's— let me just say, there's a lot— I don't have an office. There's a lot of, like, snacks in here, and I haven't touched anything. I have been— I've barely— I've had zero residual presence in here. But, you know, George Stephanopoulos— you got to take a snack. Stephanopoulos's office is occupied. Diane Sawyer's office is occupied. I— Stephen A. is in Miami. Like, this is— this is This is what I'm able to sneak in here.

Do you feel like you were lied to when you were told that the Celtics weren't shopping Jaylen Brown, or do you honestly think that something happened in the last—

I wasn't told they didn't shop him. I said they didn't— they hadn't offered him. Those are two different things. And, you know, that was a week ago. And obviously he's offered— he was offered— he's out there. I think one of the most important— you know, obviously this is a Miami-centric audience that you have. The most important thing in the league right now for what's going to happen in the 26 '26-'27 season is that Boston's apparently decided that Jaylen Brown probably needs to be traded for them to be, you know, the team that, you know, competitive team, because that's now going to be the next storyline in the NBA. Obviously, the Heat getting Giannis is a huge, you know, from the moment they traded Jimmy Butler, they've been on the hunt for the next star. That's a huge story for them. I, you know, the Boston, you know, sort of examined and then decided we're going all in. But I will say this. Boston could have offered more. They could have put more things in this deal. They did not. So I don't think they viewed this as the be-all, end-all, that they had to get Giannis.

It was their only pathway forward. I think Miami clearly had a little bit more urgency. And by the way, that may end up being— I'm not criticizing that, but they clearly had more urgency. Boston kept some, some pieces out, which leads me to believe— I don't know, I'm not in Brad Stevens's office right now with all his whiteboards and all his plans— but leads me to believe that Boston thinks it may have some other pathways with Jaylen Brown that or go beyond having to sell everything out to get Giannis.

Do you think the Celtics will regret not doing this because of Hugo Gonzalez?

I don't think it was this. I don't think— I don't think it ever comes down to that. I think there was way more multifaceted than that. We'll hear what the— what the Bucks say. I think a factor in this, too, was if the— if the— if the Bucks made this trade the way it was presented to them, forget about Hugo Gonzalez. If the Bucks made this trade, they potentially would have been in the exact same spot a year from now. They'd have a star player on their team and they weren't able to build out their roster. Now, maybe they smash hit this number 10 pick that they're going to make tonight. To me, the most important thing about this trade for Milwaukee is that they crush this draft tonight. Like, they need to move on from this, this, you know, deal. Fine, you made it. Have your press conference later. Crush number 10 and number 13. You've got to hit those players. That is what your pathway forward is, to crush those players. Tyler Herro is a quality player. He's a number 3 or number 4 on a high-level team. Let's just be honest. They need to get number 1 and number 2 tonight.

In the draft. Okay. And they, you know, if they had got a number 10 pick that could be a number 1 player, maybe they will, maybe they won't. How do I know the future? But if they knew that the number 10 pick tonight was going to yield a player that they could put Jaylen Brown with and they could be a contender for the next 3 or 4 years, they would operate differently. But I think the part of this— and by the way, they obviously stewed over this. It took them forever. To make this decision. And there was probably different voices who wanted different things. You know, maybe Jaylen Brown was the better way forward. But I think what they honestly decided was if we trade for Jaylen Brown and then we can't put a team around him and we can't give him the contract extension, we're going to be in the same exact boat we were with Giannis a year from now. And I do think that's part of this decision. I don't think it was about because they wanted, you know, Baylor Shireman. All right.

I want to set up a big reveal. Let's go around the room. What do you think, everybody? What do you think Stephen A's snacks are? What are your guesses? Big Kind Bar guy. I gotta let—

Brian's very busy. I gotta let him go.

Make sure—

no, he's got a—

I promised him that we'd let you know. I think just to— it would be funny if I should— I think it's like people have sent him snack boxes and stuff. I'm just saying, I'm being very, very— there's many things in here that people have sent him. Okay. There's many things in here. Like someone has left him a terrible— I'm not going to touch it, but I'm just going to tell you, someone has left him a terrible towel with a note on it. There is fan mail here. There is, there is, there's, there's suits, watches I would never touch and I would never wear. It's very, very expensive.

No, he doesn't eat that. He doesn't eat blue Dorito, guys.

They're so easy.

Something from Buc-ee's. He's got like mandarins, he's got like cuties. He's a healthy guy now. Yes, Stephen A is not consuming chocolate, I don't think. So there's various nuts and berries in a box over here that says snacks. I'm not touching that box. I am not touching that box. You gotta check out Greedy's office.

He's got a painting in there that someone sent to him.

Check it out. We gotta let Brian go. A percentage of chance Norman Powell is still with the Heat next year?

Next to zero. Next to zero. I will say this, Dan. I've seen the Heat do some things over the years where they pull contractual things out of thin air, where they're able to get players to do things. There's a list of those players. Udonis Haslem was one of them. You know, I remember Bano Udrih. Wasn't that like some special deal they made with Bano Udrih? Bano, yeah. So Mike Miller took less than he could have gotten elsewhere. So I would never, ever take anything off. I remember being on with you the week that LeBron signed, and I was sort of saying, I don't know how they're going to do this. And you said, because Pat Riley and Andy Osborn can do it. And I was highly skeptical. That was 15 years ago. I'm not— I'm not that way anymore. They've got $18 million right now to fill out 5 spots. Not like $18 million in theory. $18 million. And they hit— they're not $18 million that they're willing to spend. $18 million. $18 million. Hard cap. Can't go past it. No way they can go past it. They can create a little bit more space if they can.

You guys know this. You guys know all this. If they can get Andrew Wiggins to come down from his $30 million, I don't know what that number is. I'm sure Andy Ellsberg has it figured out 17 different ways and had it figured out for a month. I'm sure they've already talked to him about it. They can create a little bit more room. I don't think that there's room there for Norm Powell. So, you know, they trade, you know, they trade away a player, you know, and free some salary cap space up. Then we have a different discussion. But as they sit here now, I, I think it's likely that Norman Powell will be elsewhere.

We, we do have to let him go. But just true or false question. True or false? You can't—

I hate when you do this. Just one word.

This is a trick.

No, it's not a trick. No, I, I won't.

I won't. It's not a trick. It's an easy trick. It's an easy question. It's an easy question.

Yeah. You're gonna get 'em.

I've consumed, I've consumed your content. True or false? True or false? Go ahead. Go ahead. You can try.

You were going to pull something out of somewhere other than thin air, but then remembered you weren't just casually talking among friends. True or false?

—regarding— oh, you talking about the heat?

You pulled something out of thin air and I thought you were going to pull it out of somewhere else instead of thin air, and you edited yourself. True or false? True. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you. Got him! Trail mix! Little triangles they give you on airplanes.

There's, there's, there's re— there's Nestlé Little Crunch Yeah. Oh, we knew it. And that's what I'd like to take, but I'm not going to take it. You're not going to take it.

You are going to win it. Get your— I am, I'm not.

I, I am going to walk out of here. I'm going to rub up all of the fingerprints, and I'm not touching anything. It's a little warm in here, and there's a thermostat, but I would ne— and I know he's 2,000 miles away, or 1,000, however long, for here to Miami.

I would not touch it. You've been nonstop giving opinion and reporting. For months now. You deserve—

I feel like an act of rebellion. You should take one nibble off of one little crunch, just in an act, just one little crunch. No, I can't get you to do it. I can't force you into an act of rebellion.

No, I, I am very, very respectful of Mr. Smith's property in here, and he allows me in New York City, where space is at a premium, that I am able to briefly to be a part of your show sprint his desk for a matter of minutes.

Thank you for the time. I know you're very busy. Thank you. Have a good day. Brian, you too.

Yeah, Wendy! Oh, let's—

He enjoyed that.

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Der Leberterre! For 5 minutes I was watching everyone just like: Nope, not letting you in, not letting you in. So when I got up there, I had to say something. And I said it: Cheaters never prosper!

Chris Cody!

My buddy was saying "not today." Yeah but your track...

Not today! Okay sure.

I think that was what he was adding.

That wraps up so much better!

But I'm telling you, the response I got from this guy, what I said was amazing.

He got him right.

Cheaters never prosper! Fosburgh, this guy yelled as angry as he could.

I ain't cheating! This is the Dan Levatar Show.

Let's bring back Amin. We're not going to do that to him again. It's rude and it is disrespectful. So we aren't going to do that again to Amin. But what kind of Jaylen Brown problem do the Celtics have, Amin?

I mean, this is sports at the end of the day. It's business, and it all depends on the kind of relationship that Brad Stevens and Joe Mazzulla have with Jaylen Brown. What I mean by that is, when I worked for the Suns, Steve Kerr was our GM, and Steve Kerr would always make it a point to tell— address the team as a whole and individually, hey, we like you guys, we want you here because we think we're building towards something, but if we see an opportunity to make our team better and it involves including you, I said, I will do it. Now, I, I won't have your name out in rumors for months on end. I won't, I won't put you through that. And if like, we're considering something, I'll let you know, but, uh, at the end of the day, there is no promise for any of us to stay here. And because of that, I think a lot of guys really respected that approach. And when we ended up trading Shaq to Cleveland, we're the only team that, uh, that sent Shaq away and didn't get burnt in the process because he really respected our process.

If Brad Stevens and Joe Mazzulla had that kind of relationship with, with Jaylen Brown and letting him know early in the process, even before he heard his name in any rumors, look, if there's an opportunity and your name's in it, it might happen. So I just want you to know that we love you, we'd love to have you for a long time, but if we think we can make our team better, we'll do it. I think that might have landed better if he discovered this in the midst of him being, uh, upset about how he's perceived, either internally, externally. Then it might take a little bit more cajoling and smoothing over. But the reality is the thing that's in there favor the most is the best thing for Jaylen Brown is to go out there and play really well for a championship-contending team. And Boston is that. So it does him no good to pout and demand a trade. The best option for him to get his money and to get his value to where he wants to be is to go out there and play.

Given what we've seen from Jaylen Brown and the Celtics, how do you think this is going to play out? Because I hear you talking about how things were at a different place with a different player, and I don't know. Know Jalen Brown or the situation, um, as well as probably you or some other people. But I get the sense from the clips that I see from his Twitch stream and the quotes that I see out there in the, the, um, reporting that we're hearing about it, that it ain't gonna go as smooth. Just because we know it's a business, it doesn't feel like he's gonna handle it that way.

Yeah, you know, and it's interesting, Dominique, like, why does he have a Twitch stream? And he said it, it's because he wants to control his narrative. He feels like when left to its own devices, the media doesn't exactly tell his side of the story well, and he feels like him going direct to consumer helps. Well, guess what happens when people have the ability to tell their narrative? They also get to build their narrative. So he may not necessarily be as sensitive as he appears to be in these streams. Maybe he's just positioning. Maybe he's just trying to put himself in a place where he's being victimized by a system, by an organization, whatever or it may— the case may be. But again, at the end of the day, whether he's sensitive for real or not, whether he feels underappreciated or not, the best option available to him is to go out and play and play well on a championship-contending team to get his money. And he got the opportunity to do that. Remember, Tatum is still recovering. He's still not going to be the same Tatum he was prior to the injury. So at least on day one of training camp, Jaylen Brown still has the inside track of, I'm still the best player on this team right Let me ask you the question this way.

Given what you expect to happen in the coming months, okay, given the expectations that you have, who's going to be better next year, the Heat or the Celtics?

Right now, what it is, I would say the Celtics because they've, they've, they have their roster. But again, you know, the Heat have an opportunity to go out there and do that Miami Heat thing where they get that guy who— oh, that guy's—

what do you expect in the next couple of months? What do you expect to happen that will answer that question for you. Who do you expect to be better when games are being played next year, the Celtics or the Heat?

Right now, I'm going to go with the Celtics because they have their roster right now. What you're asking me is the old Family Guy question. A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could be a boat. The Celtics are a boat. The Heat are a mystery box right now. It could be amazing depending on what's inside that mystery box, or it could be still a work in progress. But you have to go with the status quo. The status quo is the Celtics have a full roster that's ready to contend right now.

Who is this best for? Giannis, the Celtics, Milwaukee, or the Heat? And I'm separating Giannis from the Heat, right?

And it's the Heat. Yeah, it's the Heat. They've been on this hunt for years and they finally— and what I've always said about front office work is the easy part is the hard part and the hard part's easy part. Easy part of saying he's a superstar, that guy's an MVP. So it's like, yeah, we can all recognize that. Can you get them? Well, no, that's hard because there's other teams that are going to be competing for it, whatever. On the flip side is like, oh, that guy's a good player. Anyone can have him. That's easy. But it's hard because you actually have to identify them. It's harder to identify those role players. The Miami Heat front office is really good at identifying those role players and those complementary pieces. I— I— but they haven't been good at landing the whale.

This is so interesting because you're right. But I think the— and it's kind of a legacy question. Who is more impacted, assuming they win a championship in the next couple of years? Who's— whose legacy is more like bolstered? Giannis, Pat Riley, Spo? Like, I keep thinking about this and we're celebrating Spo and Pat Riley's potential with what they can do and what they've done in the past more than we're talking about how much this impacts Giannis. And I think we might possibly be overlooking the idea that Giannis winning a championship at another place Will we give all that credit to him, how special a player he has become, or will we say, damn, Pat Riley and the Heat did it again, don't care if he's 85?

No, no, no, it's absolutely honest, right? Because the list of guys who've won one title is long in terms of comparatively speaking to guys who've won multiple titles. And then if you say multiple titles in different places, that, that, you know, uh, list shrinks considerably. Giannis absolutely benefits if they win a title. Tremendously. But in terms of today, Giannis gets another crack at trying to contend and all that stuff. But today, Pat Riley gets to stand up and say, remember when y'all thought I was washed? Oops, I did it. Great comeback.

Great comeback for Pat Riley. What did you just spit into a cup, like, with a disgusted face?

It was crazy.

What just happened to you? Yeah, what did you just hear? A noise? What did you just sip on and make a disgusting face? I thought you chewed tobacco all of a sudden and swallowed some of it.

Yeah, so like, I, I got, I got water right here, which is what I thought that I was drinking. I want to sip of water, you know, it's already set in your head what you're about to sip. So if it's something opposite of what you think you're gonna sip, that's very jarring to your senses. My, my senses can be very sensitive, okay? So I thought that I was about to have water, and it like, it was very upsetting when it turned out to be like really cold coffee. That was very disgusting. So I had to spit it back out.

This, this happened to me this weekend with what I thought was water, but it was mezcal neat. And so I thought I was taking took a sip of just clean water and was like, whoa, my eyes got real red. And you were sick this weekend and you decided to drink mezcal right before I got—

Japhiel, I feel like have— thinking you're getting water, getting a little sweet drink, that's different. Are you excited? Like, if you're anticipating a little bland sip of water, you get Kool-Aid extra sugar.

But like I told you, my senses are very sensitive, all right? And I thought that there was to be water on my tongue and it was something not.

How much do you think the Knicks winning the championship influenced Pat Riley to put it all on the table? He had to be pissed about the Knicks.

I, I think, look, they try to get him at the trade deadline and the Bucks held out, and so he threw in more. I think Boston's involvement, for sure, that motivated it more. To, to lose him is one thing. To lose him to those guys That absolutely could not happen. And so maybe that was all Milwaukee needed was just the right second competitor, second suitor. But I don't think the Knicks winning, I don't think Pat— Pat's over that.

I mean, I want to put in front of you this Pat Riley quote and give you the chance to tell me what's the closest comp you have to Pat Riley sending out a team spokesman to say of Danny Ainge, the general manager of the Celtics at the time, Danny Ainge needs to shut the bleep up and manage his own team. He was the biggest whiner going when he was playing, and I know that because I coached against him. What is the closest comp you have to somebody in Pat Riley's position sending out a vice president to give that quote?

Probably him faxing his resignation to the Knicks on Christmas. That, that's up there too. By the way, shout out to Tim Donovan. Is this— is that the pinnacle of his career? A guy's got a long, illustrious career working in sports as a, as a comms guy, and, and his number one moment is he had to tell the assembled—

he had to have hated that. He does not— I mean, this is not a person who wants to be in the spotlight. And I I would have loved to have seen the conversation where Pat's like writing that down or telling him to write it down and saying, go tell the media this, you go tell me this, go tell Ira and Ethan and Barry I said this.

Dad, this is my favorite part where he's— Pat Riley says that statement and Tim Donovan reads it back to him. Okay, so we're going to tell Danny Ainge that— no, no, no, no, I want you to tell him to go fuck himself. I want you to use those words. And Tim's I was like, Pat, we can't. Tim, I want you to use these exact words.

This is an order, Tim. It's not a request. It's not a suggestion. Dan Levitar.

I've never stepped foot on that campus. If you told me right now your life depends on it, go to Santa Fe University and just take a picture. Jonathan Saslow. I would die. I don't know where it is. This is the Dan Levitar Show.

Tim Donovan did see me juggle at Dan's wedding.

I just want to throw that out there highlight of his career.

Was that before or after you hit Dan Patrick in the nuts?

Just before.

Lost control. You hit Dan Patrick in the nuts? You don't know that?

You don't know that story? I was juggling, I was cooking for like 45 straight seconds. It was incredible. I started to feel myself, so I started like, you know, doing shtick, like talking while doing it, and then I lost control and it hit Dan Patrick right in the nuts. Now, Chris, you got to paint a picture. There's some people who are new to the show, they don't know this at Dan's wedding. Didn't— wasn't a traditional, like, at a wedding hall or whatever and banquet tables. It was kind of very casual and you choose where you sat. Yeah. And so there was the one section that was Dan Patrick and it was Mina and it was Sarah Spain, and I think Pablo sat at that section. And then there was the reject session section that was me and, and Cortez and, and Izzy. And who else was that? I was there in that section. It was the couches. Oh, Tony, Tony was there too. And then there was the the— hey, we grew up with Dan's Section. That was Chris and, uh, and Greg Cody and, uh, all the other Codys were there. So, and then there was the— Sedano was there with, with Hawk, I thought, or who was he there with?

Andrew Hawkins? No, Andre Dawson. Andre Dawson, there you go. Andre Dawson and some old Miami sports people, they were over there. And so we're all sitting around, it was like a high school cafeteria And we're trying to see like, how do we make this co-mingle thing? And Chris was like, I'll start juggling. I'm like, oh, that's a good idea. And so he's juggling and he's, he's killing, by the way. He's doing a great job. Everyone's real impressed. And then he just went one juggle too far. Dan Patrick caught one right in the nether region.

No, then you didn't know this. No, I was busy.

Oh yeah, but you were mingling. You were mingling, Dan.

I did not know that story. But no, I did not know that Chris Cody found a way to embarrass me while I was busy.

Uh, Dan Patrick loved it, by the way. When it was going on and the Ferris wheel was rolling and Chris was just doing it, he was in awe.

And then the rough stuff, huh?

He was in awe again.

Yeah.

Uh, I, I do have, uh, an Amin question because the Jaylen Brown part of this conversation is still— I'm still a bit hung up on that. I would like, Amin, if you could put on your executive hat one more time, and if I'm Jaylen Brown and I walk into your office and say, come on, I mean, what the hell? Like, what do you say? I'm angry, I'm hurt. This is— chopping me around and treating me like I ain't nothing. I was the MVP of your championship team. I put this team on my back this last season while Jayson Tatum was out. And now— oh, Chris— and now this is what we're doing?

That's how it happened right there. What do you say? That's exactly how it happened with Chris. Uh, what I say is, first of all, have I done the front-end work? And, and that's— that to me is so important, the front-end work of building that relationship with the guy before his name is ever out there. But assuming you're saying no, assuming not, I think you just got to be frank, man. Hey, we had an opportunity to go after a generational player. We thought we could get him. It— like a lot of people are saying, you should feel very flattered that that's what it takes to get a guy like that. But that doesn't mean we're not bought in on what we can do here. And I think you have an opportunity here to really cement yourself in a way that will make us look foolish one day that we tried to trade you for a guy who is older and, and perhaps on the downside of his career. So I think you got to butter them up a little bit, but you got to be— there has to be an element of truth to this. Like, hey man, this is the business and we're all trying to just maneuver these chess pieces to a place to get us to a place of success.

But again, I would urge every front office member, future or present, who's listening to this right now, do your work now. Like Like, be— don't smoke up your players' asses now, because when the day comes when you have to make those tough decisions and those decisions don't pan out, you can't go back and say, oh no, I still love you, whatever. You have to be able to be upfront with everybody. And I— that's why I think the best front offices do. They have a very straightforward relationship with their players.

Do you feel like you can answer accurately what was happening with, uh, Bucks ownership and, uh, everything there, given that at the trade deadline the reporting was that this heat deal was essentially done, and then ownership stepped in and said, no, we're not doing this now. Now the reporting is that there's been conflict on both sides between, uh, what the general manager wanted and what the owner wanted. One of them wanted the Celtics offer, one of them wanted the Heat offer. To your way of looking at this, the Heat offer was better, correct? Because it's got twice as many assets in it, even though Jaylen Brown's not one of them, and it's got younger assets in it. You don't want to just replace Giannis with Jaylen Brown. When you're not going to be better with Jaylen Brown than you were with Giannis?

Precisely. And that Jaylen Brown's up for an extension, so you have to make a decision almost immediately to rapidly escalate his salary, and by that way, your salary commitments. To me, Milwaukee's— perhaps the path to an even better deal would have been to be insistent on Boston. No, go find us that third team. Go find us what that haul is going to be for Jaylen Brown, because I have to believe there's a great haul out there for Jaylen Brown if the Celtics chose to pursue it. Celtics probably did not want to do that because that— it goes from, hey, we traded you for Giannis, to, hey, we sent you to Portland, or we sent you to Atlanta, or wherever else. And that's kind of a step too far. But I think ultimately what Milwaukee got was the thing that sets them up for the future the best, which is enough bites at the pool to continue to build this thing. Remember, they don't have control of their picks for the foreseeable future, so they can improve their team from the draft. Prior to this deal, they could not improve their team through the draft. Trades— who are they going to trade?

AJ Green, Ryan Rollins— nice young players, but hardly the thing that brings back a great haul. So they can't improve their team by a trade. So then free agency— who's signing in Milwaukee? Not too many people, especially if Giannis isn't there. So if you look at all of those things, you're I can't improve myself by the draft. I can't do it by trade. And free agency is going to be tough. What does Jaylen Brown do for me? It's just I've just swapped one problem for another. This deal at least gives them the opportunity to start to, A, build through the draft, through these picks, and B, build through trades. Because Killua Ware has a market, because Hawkins will have a market, because Tyler Herro has a market.

Do you have a theory better than Dominique's on why basketball reporting seems to get it a whole lot more wrong than baseball, football, hockey, all of them combined?

You know, I'm not as tapped into those other sports. So for instance, if you say, hey, name some newsbreakers on the basketball side, I think I can name like a bunch, a dozen or whatever. You say hockey. How many newsbreakers are there in hockey? How many newsbreakers are there in football? Right. Schefter, Rapoport. Who else? Right. Mike Silver, who doesn't really break news like that anymore as much. And so the— when the population of people who are competing for news stories stories is smaller. It's easier to have a more homogenized messaging out there, uh, because there's less competition for those stories. That, that would be my uneducated— hockey has plenty of insiders.

Yeah, they got Elliott Friedman, Emily Kaplan, Pierre LeBron, David Dwork.

Okay, all right, well, I, I, I couldn't tell you. I actually have a question for you guys because this is the second biggest, uh, second big deal— excuse me— of the week in Miami. Miami, Brady Tkachuk or Giannis Antetokounmpo, what's a bigger deal to Miami? Very obviously Giannis. Giannis. I don't know how good Brady— you guys were glazing Brady Tkachuk.

I thought, oh my God, he's not Giannis.

Here it is. I don't know, he's not— he's just— I don't watch hockey like that. I'm asking a question.

We were emotionally hedging just in case the Giannis—

Brady Tkachuk's like Donovan Mitchell. Uh, okay, really? Brady Tkachuk is really good, but he's not Giannis. Like, Giannis is Donovan— like, he's Good, good player, but you're not like super excited if he's your best guy.

Uh, let's do—

you, you weren't— I'm sorry, real quick, you weren't on yesterday when I was on, but this now marks the second time that Giannis becomes instantly the most famous number 34 for a franchise, snatching it away from Ray Allen.

The Giannis, uh, Brady, Kachuk example is actually something I'm willing to do. Who would be the hockey equivalent of Giannis? Because it's not McDavid, but who would it be? Like, where would you— where would you put the correct analogy on hockey greatness, and this is the equivalent of Giannis.

Leon Draisaitl will be a good comp for me.

So you're talking about like a guy who, like, if he were traded, this would be—

I'm talking about a sheer immortal in hockey history that will be one of the top 50 hockey players of all time who's playing right now. Because I don't think it's Draisaitl. I don't think that's compliment enough. Giannis is—

yeah, I think Giannis is bigger than Draisaitl. Draisaitl's a number 2.

It's gonna have to be the star of a team. It's going to have to be an immortal who's presently playing, who's not a Vetchkin in his 40s, who's somebody in his early 30s and, and is not an old player, but is somebody that's going to be regarded as one of the best of all time, top 50 players presently playing.

Nathan McKinnon.

Not good enough. What?