Transcript of CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? GIANNIS ANTETOKOUNMPO ON THE HEAT?! | Hour 1 (feat. Ernie Johnson, Jorge Sedano, and Amin Elhassan)

The Bucks and Phoenix Suns opened up the NBA Finals last night with Giannis Antetokounmpo!

The NBA player Giannis An—tou-koum-pno caught my eye! Buckstar Giannis...

Giannis Al-Ante-ku-po? Giannis Anti-Kumpo?! Milwaukee's Giannis Ate-tunk-u-po?!

Milwaukee star Giannis Ati-Tu-Kum-Po?!

Giannis Ad-a-Kem-po!? Giannis Anti-Kumpo?!

Giannis Anti-Kumbo!? Giannis Onkunpo!?

Onta-koom-po!? And with Giannis Autocapompo!?

Yeah, that's Auto-co-pop-o!

Giannis anti-th—

¡Hola! This episode of The Dan Levitard Show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

We are going to have an assortment of people on today to talk about this trade. You cannot say that the Bucks won the trade because the team that wins the trade is always the team that gets the best player. However, the Bucks did play this correctly and squeezed the Heat for about 3 things that the Heat did not want to give up. Like the— my Miami Heat paid max value, uh, for Giannis Antetokounmpo, and they wouldn't have 4 or 5 months ago. And they had to pay max value because it is clear now that the details are rolling in that basically the roster was pushed over to them, and they said, no, I don't want Davion Mitchell, don't— we'll take what we want here, and you'll take Bobby Portis, and you'll get Antetokounmpo. But this is absolutely more than the Heat wanted to give up, and the Boston Celtics getting involved drove the price up on the Miami Heat.

Yeah, the Bucks played it well after playing it really poorly. Like, they should have traded him last offseason. This, this whole wasted year, I think Giannis's value went down, and they still got a bunch for him, but I think it's less than— this is why you probably feel good even though they handed over the roster, or this Miami fans feel good even though they handed over the roster. This is less than I think we would have thought Giannis was worth. Last season before he had this particular season, and a lot of people who might have been in the hunt for him then pulled out. So I think the way that things happened for him, it worked out well for both teams, but I don't feel particularly great for the Bucks' future. I think the one team that's walked out of this trade that feels like they have had like a real chance, obviously immediately, is the Heat. The Bucks in the future, they're hoping for to get lucky in the draft with these picks, but they got younger.

Do you think that— Zazz, do you think that Dominique has that right? Because, uh, I don't know if I don't know if there's a way to play any of this well. Once the superstar is disgruntled, I haven't seen a whole lot of examples of, uh, people handling— a right way to handle any of that. Do you think he's right though, that a year ago Giannis, before last year's disastrous season, Giannis would have gotten you more than this? Because this is— whether you like Tyler Herro as a one-time All-Star or not— this is a lot of young players, and it is 7 first-round picks worth of draft capital.

Yes, I think they waited a year too long, but everyone waits a year too long. Like, the Heat waited a year too long with Jimmy Butler. So it's really hard to pull the trigger on this kind of player when even if you know it's going to help you rebuild before the player makes a mess of it, to wind up having, you know, the balls to make that move. But they did make the right move in not trading him at the trade deadline and then waiting till the summer because it did net them at least the 13th overall pick. So in that sense, Milwaukee did a great job. I thought Milwaukee got a haul. I really do. I think they got a haul. And this has been my, my biggest beef with the Miami Heat over these last few years when it comes to not being able to land the big player in trade, is this team has not been willing to give up enough where It hurts even though you're getting the player— the best player in the trade. The Heat have been stubborn and they have not wanted to allow the move to hurt.

This hurts a little bit! They gave up everything! And that's what's necessary to get a superstar player. ¡Oh!

¡Oh!

¡Oh!

You know what that means. A guest has arrived. Jorge Sidano is here. Very disappointed that he's not wearing a robe. I thought every appearance from now on would be with him wearing a robe. He begins with a disappointment, but give us your analysis, Jorge, on what it is that you've seen happen here over the last 12 hours.

That'd be really weird if my Uber showed up to take me to the airport and I would still be in the robe when I walked into the Uber. That would be funny. Look, the reality is you never give up, quote unquote, too much for a superstar, okay, of this caliber. One who has a championship pedigree, one who clearly wants more titles and is still, still in his prime. Yes, I understand the issues with games played. I would imagine, much like when Shaquille O'Neal arrived in Miami, he will be extra motivated to play as many games as humanly possible and show the rest of the world that he's still one of the top 5 players on the planet.

There's not a caring problem with this human being. Like, you're not going to get somebody's weak effort. Like, this is going to be the most motivated him that you're getting. Oh, I don't think there's any question, right?

Because He's been written off in a lot of ways. I mean, for Christ's sake. And, you know, Dan, you and I love Wilbon, but like, he's going out there saying, like, you know, what's Giannis? Like, who's Giannis? Like, I'm over Giannis or whatever it is he's saying. I'm paraphrasing now, but it's like, what are we talking about here? Like, this guy legitimately has been in the MVP conversation outside of last year because of games played, I guess, what, the last 7 years?

Top 4 the last 7 years. Top Top 4 MVP voting the last 7 years before last. Right.

So, I mean, this guy is at the pinnacle of where you want to be in the sport and he's had some bad injury luck. I will say this. He seemed fine to me running on the pitch the other day, playing soccer wherever the hell he was during the UEFA Champions League. So I think he's going to be fine. To your point, yes, he's going to be incredibly motivated. And here's the other thing. The Heat have a history. Of building this thing out for their superstars. It may not happen in year 1 where they win a championship, but they will build a good enough team to potentially get to the finals. Okay. And potentially get out of the Eastern Conference. And much like we saw with LeBron, right? Like, I think that maybe year 2 is the year they win the championship. The window for this team is, if I had to say, the next 4 to 5 years. With Giannis, and then in theory you would see a decline. I don't know if you will, right? We, we've seen a lot of athletes—

George, that's optimistic. I think it's the next 2 or 3 years. Like, that's— that's to expect him to be at 35, 36, and 37 is to trust that science has just totally rearranged the aging process, which maybe it has, but I, I don't— you're, you're going way out on this. Like, I— the reason I say this is the most all-or-nothing move of Pat Riley's career is if he gets hurt It's really going to hurt in 2030 and 2033 when they're giving up those draft picks because they're not going to be very good.

Yeah, but I think with the way the lottery works now, if this is the way we continue to do it after the next 3 years, then I think that actually aids them a little bit. Yeah, I would disagree with you. I think that 3 is the floor and I would say 5 is the ceiling on this particular move. You know, I don't know if you'll get to 5. To your point, you know, we can, we can kind of meet in the middle and say 4, I think. He'll be 32 in December, but I don't see him slowing down. I mean, I think that to your point, bigger, stronger, faster. You've been saying that for 20-plus years. And I think that will continue to be the case, including with the help of modern training and medicine and things of that nature. And by the way, that's not to say that he doesn't continue to add to his game as he gets older. I mean, I've seen him hit shots, you know, in the mid-range and in year— in ways I had never seen him hit shots like that in previous years. He actually had. A good season, I feel like, from the mid-range last year.

Is he ever going to be, you know, a good shooter? No. But, you know, Dwyane Wade was never a great shooter. Their, their job is to surround him with good teammates. And I think they're going to be— they're going to be able to do that in short order to some extent. And then I think somewhere over the next offseason or so, they'll be able to create what is a team that can be sustainable for at least another 2 or 3.

Yeah, the, the Giannis shooting, I think, is like a complementary thing. Like, he's never going to dominate in the way that he has in the past, or any other way other than the explosive athleticism. But I think more interesting than what happens for Giannis 5 years from now is the moves that can be made immediately. I think we all would agree that their chances to win are in the short term. Have you given any thought to the moves that, that seem realistic under this second apron era that this team could make to make themselves a contender right now, this year and next year.

Yeah, look, I'm with you on that. I don't think, you know, this is not a build for the long term. We're all in agreement there. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I just trust this organization to do what they've always done. I mean, for God's sake, they went to the Finals twice with Jimmy Butler and 6 guys who played in the G League for decent stretches of their career. And we haven't even talked about Erik Spoelstra yet. Erik Spoelstra is still, in my opinion, the best coach in the NBA now. I will say this, coaching has gotten a lot better. Okay. I think the, the margin of where Spo was the best coach to who the second best coach has shrunk tremendously. I think that there are a lot of coaches that you can put in a similar category now with Erik Spoelstra. But to me, he's still the guy who does the most with the least. And I think that will have to be something that they'll have to do a little bit of this year in this transition year. To get them to where they want to be, which is back in the finals.

I think it's possible. New York is still going to be a team to contend with. Clearly, they're going to be able to bring back their starting five. We'll see what Boston looks like after all of this. But at the end of the day, the hardest thing to get is the superstar and a top-five superstar at that. You've got one of those. The rest of the build can work itself out this offseason and perhaps next.

A very disappointing appearance by Jorge Sedano because he was not wearing his robe and he promised us just robe appearances for the rest of time. We'll see how we handle that punitively. Thank you, Jorge. We will talk to you soon.

One last thing, Dan. I spoke to your dad on Father's Day, and his commentary to me about the finals was, "Wembi le hace falta unas croquetas." I mean, he could use some breaded fried stuff in order to gain some weight.

Thank you, Jorge. Appreciate the time.

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I want to ask you something as we talk about what decline looks like, because for some reason, and this is always interesting to me, okay, we just tend to ignore defense. And Giannis was Defensive Player of the Year in 2019, 2020. He had been on the All-Defensive Defensive first team 4 years in a row, and he hasn't made any the past 4 seasons. So when people say that last year was his best year, well, offensively, statistically, he was pretty good while missing games. But that's how the slowing stops. The Lakers are a bad defensive team. I actually got worried about the Lakers getting in this game because there is no team in the sport more helped by Khalil Ware than the Lakers would have been, and they were interested in Khalil Ware. They're bad defensively, and they're bad defensively because LeBron can't play defense anymore because he's 41. And the decline, usually you can't see it. Uh, it's not easy to see, but that's where you'll see it. You'll see it on the defensive end if you're looking there, but most people are never looking there.

Yeah, I think there's tons of different ways to get anything done on the basketball court in any sport, honestly. But the easiest way to do just about anything is be bigger, faster, stronger, more explosive. When those things start to decline, that's when you got to figure out some other ways to impact the game. And I think that's what we're talking about. That's why, um, Sedano And I and probably you have different prospects for what's going to happen when— in this— or how big this Giannis window is, in large part because that physical decline is going to hurt his defense and that physical decline is going to hurt his offense. It may be imperceptible at first. It may not show up immediately in the stat sheet, but it's going to show up somewhere. You need to support it.

Well, what they've done, though, and this is not a small thing, okay? Because I will tell you that the Atlantas of the world and the Sacramentos of the world, they go a long time without having what I'm about to say. What the Miami Heat just did, which is a hard thing to do, is they are now relevant again. You can discuss anything else here in the trade that you want. The Bucks are not. The Bucks traded for a Hall? Not relevant. The Miami Heat just got the entire league's attention, including New York's, because they are now a defensive team, because Bam will carry that side. Bam has never had a defensive player next to him with this particular resume. It's not happened. Like, Davion Mitchell is an unbelievable perimeter defender. Like, he is really good. And while they have trouble shooting right now with the roster that's presently in front of you, Giannis will make that easier in a league that has gone towards shooting because of how much easier he makes the sport. Because I'm gonna say it for the third time in the show, the Heat have been bottom 10 in the league for a decade at the rim.

Like, no matter what we're doing on the 3-point shot And the way the sport's changing, the one that's the most efficient shot is the one at the rim. And this guy makes every roster around him top 5 in the league at the rim. And that's all him. It ain't Jrue Holiday, it ain't Chris Middleton, it ain't Bobby Portis. It's all him. Top 5 in the league at the rim. And now what you get, you're not just recruiting with, we got Miami for you, we've got all of the tax benefits for you of Florida. Hey, shooters, you want wide open shots for the next 2 years? You think wherever it is you've been that you've been undervalued because you can't get your shots off? There are going to be plenty of them now in Miami.

And you want defensive protection? You get blown by? That's all right. We got 2 guys at the rim that not very many people want to challenge. You don't want to have to go over top of screens all the time? We got 2 guys that are comfortable with the switch onto just about anybody in the NBA. So like, I do think it's an easier sell But the hard part is with the new rules, we're not going to be able to pay. Like, just can't. You can't go over the cap. You can use some of the exemptions if you get cooperation from Powell and Wiggins. You get some cooperation from them, then you can go over.

You won't. Powell's gone. Yeah. So why do you say that? Because he's not taking a huge discount. He won't. He won't. Why would he? He's just coming off his first All-Star season. He's not going to do that.

But he doesn't have to take a huge discount. Like, they, they, they have his bird rights and they could pay him. I mean, they're not going to pay him anything crazy, but like, they could pay him if they want to pay him, right?

If you—

the bird rights, then you're going to be increasing your spend and it's going to make it harder. You're going to need Wiggins to opt out and then sign a deal that's smaller. Like, it's— you're going to need some cooperation.

This is from Windhorst just now, and Windhorst will be joining us later in the show. They're going to lose their All-Star Norman Powell unless he takes a crazy discount. He's going to be gone.

But, but to Dominique's point, like, if, if Wiggins can opt out and then he can go for a longer deal that's shorter money up front, they can presumably work something to keep Norman Powell. Plus, on top of that, Dan, do you know the greatest shooter of all time is available? Luke Kennard.

Yep. Uh, they know. We don't. They know already whether Norman Powell is going to stay or going to go. You do not make all of these moves— they know. We might not know, but rest assured that they already know, and they've gone to Norman Powell, and they have their answer on whether that's still going to be here or not. I wouldn't assume it will be.

One thing that hasn't changed as much as the NBA has changed, and as important as shooting is, it feels like in order to— or not, it feels like you still need a wing player to be able to close out games. I think the Spurs didn't really have that. They might end up having it in Harper, but all these championship teams we saw, even the Nuggets when they were making runs, their best teams had Jamal Murray. You're going to need a wing player to be able to close out games. Do you believe that Norman Powell is that guy?

Well, you are so right on this because Whittingham, one of his worst takes ever on a resume with many bad takes is that Giannis is forever a number 2. He's not a number 1 because he can't close out games, because he needed Chris Middleton to close out some of those games.

It's a good point. That, that's, that's what I'm thinking as well. Not that they should get Middleton now necessarily, but that was always the thing. Giannis is Milwaukee's best player, but Middleton was the closer. So I do think you're right. If they're going to lose a guy like Powell, they do need someone who can create shots. Doesn't have to be a star, right? But you do need someone who could create some shots for you on the wing late in games.

Part of this with Powell, by the way, is this trade is still ongoing until July 6th. Like, the framework is there, but you could see Hero end up elsewhere, and now is the time that more and more teams are going to try to get in on this. So theoretically, Norman Powell could also be a sign-and-trade candidate, whether it ends up being Hero or not. That the Heat using that contract to land other pieces for this, if it's not him, is, is not just a possibility, it's, it's a probability at this point.

It's actually a really interesting point that Jeremy makes there because normally when you have this kind of deal and yes, okay, so the deal's out there and because it's not official yet, so we're in like a moratorium, there's a few days and other teams can latch on and the deal can expand. But usually during that period of time, okay, dudes are agreeing to deals here and deals here and deals here. And you may lose out on guys because the timing of this— the draft hasn't even happened yet, so there's still a week until the free agency actually begins. So there really is a lot of time for the Heat to make other moves.

How do you guys feel about what's happened the last few days when it comes to reporting and people getting it wrong and this being different, it seems like, in basketball than it is anywhere else? Uh, before we get to that question, can you just play for the sound of Whittingham during the Finals that ended up with Giannis appearing to have a career-ending injury and then holding up the trophy at the end when we all thought he was going to be gone for 10 years. And then he wins the championship by coming back in a couple of days. And they had a problem closing because Giannis was their closer.

It's kind of turned out in these playoffs Giannis is probably the NBA's best number 2 because I think it's kind of been determined that he can't be your 1. And like, in terms of his specific skill set and the areas of the game in which he struggles, you can't rely upon him to get baskets at the end.

He then, of course, went on to great fame all over the place in another sport. Great young broadcaster for a reason of all time in another sport as he dominates the Premier League and World Cup coverage because he quickly lasted about 3 months here, said he would not want the career of Jim Gray, it was beneath him, and then set about proving it by starting his career at the very top of the mountain.

Does he have bad soccer takes too, or is that just basketball?

He's very good on soccer takes. But Zazz, what are your thoughts on what it is that I was just saying? I know that you're down in general on NBA reporting. There was a lot of stuff here that was wrong.

I thought NBA reporters embarrassed themselves over the last week. Just a total embarrassment. I mean, I said a few days ago, I think people are making things up, you know, because the day and age that we live in with social media and all the information out there. You have like the super credible people, people like Shams Charania. Notice when Shams finally decided to poke his head yesterday was the day that everything was happening, okay? But you got the credible people like Shams Charania, Brian Wintour, Ramona Shelbert, even guys like Gary Washburn. A lot of them were wrong. I don't think they were making things up, but I do think there's other people out there who are like, all right, I gotta come up with some kind of info, I gotta show my employer I'm valuable, I better throw something out there, I better get a source from something to give some kind of intel. And as a result No one knew anything. How many times did we hear, this is gonna be a huge multi-team trade? How many times did we hear, Tyler Herro, he's going to Detroit. Duncan Robinson's coming back to the Heat.

How about this latest one that took place yesterday where the owner in Milwaukee wants Jaylen Brown, the GM wants the Heat's deal, and then today it became, no, no, no, the owner wanted the Heat's deal and that's why it got done. No one knows shit. And then last night, you had Chris Haynes. I'm sorry to throw his name out there, but look, you went on front of a camera and a microphone, so it is what it is. And Chris Haynes got out there at the last hour and said, Boston, they're the favorites right now. Giannis, Miami isn't even his top choice to go to. What are we doing?

Dominique, why doesn't this happen in the other sports? Why do we not get this bad information in baseball and football and hockey?

I mean, I have no idea, to be honest with you. I could venture like a theory. I'd say that this is all about like horse trading or favor trading and power and influence. And I think the NBA is one of the leagues— it's probably the only league where there's so much more power outside of the front office. So like in the NFL, the players and the agents have less power and influence when it comes to the information sharers and the reporters than I think in the, in the NBA. So ultimately what you are doing as an information broker or a reporter is you are trading information. When you know something, you might tell a team, and that team then tells you, and they tell you that they want this information out there, so you give out that information in order to stay in their good graces. I think in the NFL, it's like GMs and front office personnel are the people who you're trading with. You have to keep them happy so your information is— comes from a consistent source. I think in the NBA, because the players have so much power and influence, and their agents by proxy do, that the information people are like, all right, well, this guy told me that in order for me to keep getting information from this agent, I have to share the story that he wants.

In order for me to keep getting information from this front office, I have to share the story that they're giving me. So I don't believe that they're lying or they believe that the information they're getting is true because the people that they're talking to have given them a bunch of real legitimate information. I think the same thing is happening in football. It's just we don't get the competing information nearly as much. You get one way. This is a story because we get surprises in football, but they're last-second surprises. I think what is uncomfortable about this now for you is that you get them competing with each other. Like, here's a surprise today, surprise tomorrow. So football reporters get lied to also. We just believe the lie all the way up until the last second, and then we interpret it as, damn, that changed on them real quick, when that's not necessarily what happened. In this, it's like, all right, that's a lie, this is a lie, that's a lie, this is a lie, that's a lie, this is a lie, and you follow the roller coaster in a way that you don't in other sports.

What seemed What's obvious to me is that Boston did not want out there and so was speaking privately that Jaylen Brown was available. And then at the end, they couldn't keep it quiet anymore. How should Jaylen Brown feel this morning?

Pissed. I mean, how should he feel and how does he feel? I said jokingly earlier that we should have a countdown until he has a Twitch stream where he says something explosive. Like, I could understand. We went through some of this yesterday. That it's impossible to disentangle your emotional reaction from the business of the sport. We all know that it's a possibility that you could get shopped, and it still hurts. I was traded, not nearly as good a player or as impactful a player for a team. It still kind of hurt my feelings. It worked out for me in the long run, but it's still kind of like, oh damn, all those pregame speeches, we're all a family, we're all working together.

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What is the worst part of the life? Jonathan Sasslow. The worst part of the life of what?

This is the Dan Levitan Show.

You don't believe what Richard Jefferson says, that Jaylen Brown should take it as a compliment that he's in the conversation with this particular player? Absolutely. Absolutely not.

It's not— he should, but he won't. I think that's the answer. He should, but he won't. You're telling— Dan, how is there not like a big-time sponsor that calls up Jaylen Brown today? It's like, yo, we're gonna sponsor your Twitch stream this afternoon. If he goes on Twitch this afternoon, that's getting millions of views, right? How is this not an opportunity for Jaylen Brown to make a ton of We should call him up.

We should sponsor his live today. Live on it. Brought to you by the Dan Le Batard Show.

Let's go ahead and make that negotiation. You know what that means? Of course. That means that the alarms have been sounded for our information guy, Amin Elhassan. Amin, what are your thoughts on what has transpired here, please?

Who came up with that imaging?

That wasn't the question I asked you. Just keep it moving. Thanks for arriving and offering nothing, but just keep it moving.

Thank you. The interesting thing when I'm hearing a lot of people react to this is, oh, what are they going to do about shooting? What are you talking about? They just did the deal. They have like 7 guys under contract. Yeah, this is the part where a front office gets its work done, and they got to go out there and find the diamonds in the rough, the value deals as far as role players. Guess what Miami's been really good at for, oh, 20 years, 25 years? Finding role players. This is what they do. The hard part for them has been landing the whale, and they finally got their whale.

Uh, what are your thoughts on, for example, some of the criticisms from Dominique, or the questions from Dominique, about the fit of these two players, Bam and Giannis?

Again, they just did the deal. You guys are acting like, okay, that's the roster that's going to be on opening night. Oh, they got to go find guys that fit. Erik Spoelstra, we all agree, is one of the best coaches. He knows his work is cut out for him. You're going to have to have a lot of big-to-big actions as far as, you know, Bam and/or Giannis handling and then the other one screening some lobs over the top. You got the things you can do, a lot of DHO actions. But at the end of the day, we can't really say anything because we don't know who the other guys on the floor are going to be. And until you tell me who those names are, you can't say this fit works or doesn't work.

I mean, why? You know, I was just talking about this with Dan and Dominique. Why is the media so wrong wrong about this over the last week. Wrong how? You know, multi-team trade, Hero's going to Detroit, Robinson's coming back to the Heat, the owner wants this, Boston's the favorite, Giannis doesn't even want to go to Miami. Tayden's not involved.

Right, so favorite, you should automatically throw that out of your lexicon because it's just, that's just an opinion. Who's the favorite? Favorite according to whom? According to the Bucks? If it were, then they would have done that deal. So anytime someone tells me that's the favorite, whoever, you're just handicapping the odds based on what you're hearing. But when you talk about, oh, I thought these guys were gonna go into multiple, multiple team trade— Jeremy actually said it earlier, the deal doesn't get done until July 6th. The reason why that is, is because there are going to be more teams that get their name in there, because Milwaukee may not look at the guys that they got and say, yeah, I really don't have a place for Tyler Herro, who's up for an extension soon. I really don't have a place for Jaime Jaquez, who's up for an extension soon. But someone else might. These guys are clearly you know, good NBA players who can help good winning teams. So if I can get more picks, if I can sit back and say, hey, what'd you get for Giannis? Well, got 3 from Miami and a swap, and then I got 2 more for Tyler Herro and 1 for— so you sit back and say, oh, I traded Giannis for 6 or 7 picks.

That sounds a lot better. But again, we have a long time here between today and July 6th for other teams to get involved in this and for this team to get—

for this deal, excuse to get bigger. A reminder that the Miami Heat made the Finals with Gabe Vincent, Max Struis, and Caleb Martin. The hard thing to do is to get the player better than Jimmy Butler, which is what they just did. They got the player better than Jimmy Butler, uh, outside of injury. What's—

go ahead, Dan. Just, and to piggyback what you just said there, all three of those guys were guys that anybody could have had. Gabe Vincent was in the G-League. League. Max Struess was in the G League. Caleb Martin literally came in like in late, uh, August to come just play pickup with the hopes that maybe he'll impress the brass and they'll give him a camp invite. So, and, and like you said, hey, there were people who were saying that Caleb Martin should have been Conference Finals MVP that year. So if there's any organization in the world that you could say, wait, where are you guys going to get the rest of the role players from? And you say, ah, I wouldn't worry about it, it's Miami, because because they're good at finding these guys, developing these guys, and putting these guys in a position to be successful outside of injury.

How does this fail for Miami?

Well, I mean, again, if, if they struggle to find enough shooting, right? I'm, I'm not gonna say that, oh, they signed one shooter, now they're fine. You're gonna need multiple shooters out there. That's going to be an issue. Playmaking, I think, is going to be an issue. A big question you got to ask yourself is what's going to happen with Wiggins and Powell. Wiggins has a player option. Now the hope is he opts out, signs a longer deal, for lower money. That gives you a little bit more breathing room to work with Powell. But if they can't resign Powell, then you have to start working the phones hard on the sign-and-trade, because again, there aren't too many teams with cap space out there for the type of money that Norm Powell is looking for. So he's got to land somewhere with a sign-and-trade. And if that's the case, can we get assets back? And most of the time we think about assets as, oh, can I get picks back or whatever? But in this case, the Heat are probably looking for a player back, or, or players players who can come help them.

I mean, Bobby Portis, do you think it was more about Milwaukee saying, here, take this guy, we don't want to pay him anymore, or the Heat wanted him?

No, I think he's a good player. I mean, you need a backup big, he's a pretty good backup big. He could play alongside Bam or Giannis, either or, because he has an ability to space the floor. He's a tough, hard-nosed guy. Look, you talk about Miami Heat culture, I think Bobby Portis, a nasty kind of I don't make friends out there type of fits in perfectly there, and his contract's not that bad. I think he has one more year, and then after that it starts getting real flexible. So for, for Milwaukee, I think the biggest thing for them are the picks. They got into a lottery pick, another lottery pick here in this, uh, in this 2026 draft. And then you got two picks that are far enough in the future that anything can happen. Remember, when you acquire another team's picks, basically you're, you're betting, hey, I bet by the time you have to give me this, you're going to be awful. And that's what they did.

I mean, when you look at the Eastern Conference, you look at the major players, obviously the NBA champion sits in the Eastern Conference now. I know the roster isn't done yet, but how does this team stack up against elite teams in the Eastern Conference? Well, they have an advantage, Stony.

They're great interior defense on day one. We know that they're probably going to be great perimeter defense because those guys are two of the very best as far as bigs being able to guard out and base. But as you probably could tell, like, hey, what— how did the Knicks beat the Spurs? They had like 9 or 10 dudes that could come in and play. And again, let's talk about some of these guys that— Landry Shamet was a guy that was signed on the last day of the year. Jose Alvarado was acquired for a very low, uh, kind of stakes. Jordan Clarkson was a buyout and came in for minimum. Those guys all played a role in New York's success this season and this playoffs and even indeed in these finals. So those guys are out there. But the point is the Knicks did it with depth more than anything. They, they didn't really have—

you know what that means? Amin is gone. Ernie Johnson replaces him. Uh, that is obvious. I mean, that is very rude.

That's not my call.

Sorry, I mean E.J., you know, I give you a ton of respect. If it was anyone else, if it was George Sidano, I would have been upset. But it's you. So no problem.

I mean, I was just—

it just happened. I was watching it just like you. I apologize.

I mean, just move over to the side for a second. We'll come back to you in a second. I just want to get Ernie Johnson in here real quick just to get his thoughts as a face and voice for the NBA. Thank you as always, Ernie, for making time for us. Your thoughts here on what happened overnight, my friend. Brent, in regard to what, uh, Julius Randle being traded to the Nets?

No, you know what, I, I go back to hearing Pat Riley speaking late in the season about, uh, no, I'm not going anywhere, I'm staying here and, and still got work to do. So it doesn't surprise me that he would make a splash like this, or at least try to make a splash and make an acquisition like this. And So it's— I'm intrigued. I mean, I love, you know, see Giannis down there with Spo, with Bam Adebayo. I mean, that's— there's going to be a fun mix to watch. And I don't— you know, people are always, well, does it elevate them to favorite status? I don't know if it elevates them to favorite status, but I do say if you've been sleeping at all on Giannis because of the injuries and because of the dumpster fire that was going on in Milwaukee this year, he's still got plenty.

According to DraftKings, they've gone from 30-to-1 odds to 18-to-1 odds. They've gone from 9th to 5th in terms of betting favorites. What do you think are the fair criticisms, Ernie, of this trade from either side?

I don't know what the fair criticisms are. I mean, it's again, you get— if you're going to make a move like this, you have to give up some players. So, OK, you're going to give up Tyler Herro, Khalil Ware. Picks, etc. But that's the only way you get anything done. I mean, if you want to basically stand pat and be careful and say, oh no, we could never give that up, look, you got to take a swing at it. I mean, you know, that was— that's one of the things. And this is going to seem like a bizarre comp, but like, like we honored Ted Turner this year. We lost Ted. Who was a guy who just took a swing all the time. The metrics may have said one thing, but in his gut he said, you know what, this is the move I need to make. And, and that can pay off. And so I, again, knowing that Pat Riley is, is still in this and wants to be a difference maker, doesn't surprise me at all that he'd say whatever we got to get, whatever we got to give, we, we have to, to get this and to make ourselves relevant, not be the the perennial, hey, we're in the play-in for the fourth straight year.

That ain't sitting well with him.

You are a basketball historian. You can put the proper perspective on this. I believe the Miami Heat have just—

a lot of pressure. What are you talking about?

I believe the Miami Heat have just gotten a player, talented skill set, one of the top 4 talents and skill sets in the franchise's entire history. Can you put into context? I think he's one of the top 50 players of all time. Top 4 in MVP voting 7 years before this last one. What did the Miami Heat just get?

They've got that rarest of, of beings in the NBA, and that is a megastar. There are all-stars, there are superstars, there are megastars. And in my book, that's what Giannis is. And we've seen what he can do. We've seen him take a team to a, to a championship. And I just think at the age of 31, there's still a lot of great basketball in the guy. So I look forward to seeing how it all plays out down there. And but and again, as I joined you and just before you were so rudely ushering Amin off the show, look, it's— it requires more than this guy. The difference to me in this year's finals was one team had a closer and one team did not. And not only did they have a closer, they had a unit. They had pieces that all fit together. So let's see what else goes around this. But on its surface right now, you're going to have to play if you're going to go against that starting 5 right now.

Off the top of your head, Ernie, and it's sort of putting you on the spot because you have to know everybody's rosters here, but name the teams that you believe have 2 better players at the top of their roster than Giannis and Bam. Hmm.

Well, I don't know.

Do you go Luka and LeBron?

That's the closest I'd come just off the top of my head.

I mean, SGA and Jaylen Williams are really good when Jaylen is healthy, but, you know, for what they do on the floor, for what they're— for what Bam and Giannis are capable of doing.

Brown-Tatum, Jokic, Jamal Murray.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there are some great tandems there. I mean, and everybody, you know, you, you talk about having a Big Three and blah, blah, blah. Ah, um, look, I think New York just demonstrated to us that you don't have to have the megastar to win. Jalen Brunson's a great player. Um, Karl-Anthony Towns is very good, but it's, it's not like having that kind of star power guarantees it. And so, um, no, again, that's— it's a, it's a great piece to have. It's a, it's a wonderful combo to have. Have, uh, under, under a great coach. Um, I can't wait to see what it means for Ernie.

Thank you for making the time for us. Put it on the poll, please. Juju at Lebatard Show: Does Ernie Johnson still live in black and white? Uh, thank you, sir.

Well, I'm sorry about that. What the heck is the deal with my feed?

You look like you're joining us from Pleasantville.

Surveillance video. I gotta work on that, man. I'm sorry, it's grainy, it's black, it's sepia. How did I do this? I gotta go to my settings. I apologize.