Transcript of Do Sports Fans Want To Do Homework? | Hour 2 New

You are listening to the Dan Levitan Show in partnership with the DraftKings Sports app, now live in all 50 states. Big Game or Not a Big Game is presented by the all-new Lawn Mower Go from Manscaped. You know about that Lawn Mower Go, Dan? That's right. It's for the groin and body hair. You know why? You know why you need that? You know why it's called the Lawn Mower?

Why do you ask me 4 questions without letting me answer any of them?

That's right, Manscaped. Roy, hit it.

Howdy folks, welcome to Big Game or Not a Big Game with Jonathan Zaslow.

That's right, Big Game or Not a Big Game. Let's get things started here. Dan, I'll come back to you. Roy, what do you got?

We got number 10 LSU going into a 4-1 Kentucky team. Kentucky a bit surprising here early in the season.

Big game or not a big game?

Kentucky has some good wins this year. They won on the road at Texas A&M. They had last-second victory last week against South Carolina. Shane Beamer, oh my God, your days are numbered. Uh, but come on, what are we talking about here? LSU, woo! LSU, Kentucky, not a big game. LSU's gonna crush them, not a big game. Mike, what do you got for me?

Oregon looks to have stemmed the tide. They are starting a backup quarterback against a UCLA team that Oregon head football coach Dan Lanning says reminds him a lot of Indiana. UCLA, Oregon, big game or not a big game?

Mike, you know about that Mario Cristobal merchant over there in Oregon?

The merchant?

Dan Lanning, that's a Mario Cristobal merchant. Merchant.

Merchant.

That's a Mario Cristobal merchant. That's right. Number 13 Oregon, number 21 UCLA. I've heard those comparisons at UCA in Indiana. This is not the first time that I've heard that. Don't forget the L. I'm very interested in seeing what UCLA has made of them this week in Eugene. 21 UCLA, 13 Oregon. That's a big game.

Now, did you make a prediction there by making them UCA, saying they're not going to take the L?

I don't know what you're talking about, Dan. Chris, big game or not a big game?

Saturday, 3:30, Infocision Stadium, 75 degrees.

There was a bit of a lisp in that word.

Eastern Michigan at Akron.

Wait a minute.

Why are you making a mockery?

Yeah, why are you? Why are you doing that?

Why are you making a mockery?

I, I'm genuinely curious.

Zip your mouth.

Where, where is that stadium?

Infocision Stadium.

But which— who's the home team?

Akron.

Oh.

It's not a big game.

You're making a mockery of it. You're not, you're not respecting the game.

Don't make a mockery.

Zips.

Amin, big game, not a big game?

I got one that's not on Saturday, it's tonight, and it's not in Infosys Stadium or wherever that is. It's right across the street, guys. I'm going to the Miami Heat preseason Home opener. I am gonna go witness the gospel of Giannis up close and personal, and I will have a report tomorrow. I'll give you guys all the news.

So what are you asking me?

Heat versus Pelicans preseason.

Heat home opener. Heat fan gets to see Giannis for the first time even though it's preseason. You know about that Gail Nelson? New PA announcer.

Wow, I'm excited.

How about that? That's tonight as well. You know about that Zion? You don't have to, he never plays. Pelicans-Heat preseason. It's not a big game.

What?

That's preseason. It's not a big game. It's not a big game.

Dan, one of my great regrets in life is Gail Nelson was a guest on Friday's show.

I grilled him.

I wasn't here for it. Guys, I have the greatest thing. I've held on to this for for literally about 15 years. When I was scouting, I was on the road, I'm going to all these games all over. I went to an Oakland University game. Do you guys know what Oakland University is?

That's right.

It's in Michigan.

It's in Michigan.

Detroit, no?

It's outside of Detroit, out in the suburbs.

Oakland County.

Yeah.

Kendrick Nunn.

So yeah, that's where Kendrick Nunn went. So I went to go see, I think, North Dakota State versus Oakland. And at Oakland University, 15 years ago, folks, When a guy would make a shot off an assist, right? Let's say, oh, 3-point field goal, Jonathan Zaslow! Everyone would cheer, and then the PA guy would say, thank you, Dan Le Batard, to the guy who made the assist. 15 years I've held on to that. It's like, we should do that here in the NBA. Someone needs to do it. But all these guys, they're already established. Like, hey, you can't talk to me. I've already had this thing, been doing it this way. I'm not gonna change all of a sudden. But now, for the first time, I had the opportunity to give something to a PA guy who's starting his first day on the job. Tonight, I will go to Gil Nelson, I will shake his hand, and I'll say, you have to do this. Because why wouldn't we want to celebrate assists?

Helping.

Helping. The idea of saying, like, imagine, Giannis Antetokounmpo! And then everyone cheers and they say, thank you, Bam Adebayo.

It's 10:30. We haven't talked Stephen A. Lane Johnson yet. What's going on with you? Are you all right?

Can we relive when Gale Nelson was in with us when he introduced Zazz like he would if he was a starter for the Heat?

At 5'7¾ at guard, from Santa Fe Community College, Jonathan Zazzle.

Yeah, I like it.

I like it too. Goosebumps. Come on, brother. Don't leave them hanging there. I like it. I saw you had a facial expression. You had a reaction to that. Well, because I didn't— that's not the school I went to.

Mental illness, sports media, Stephen A doubled down. I mean, it's perfect for us.

I mean, you were saying during the break that David Sampson had reached out to you with some sort of Bartman update.

He sure did, Dan. He was— while arguing with me about Karl-Anthony Towns, he provided this update about Bartman, saying, quote, Bartman was in foul territory while the guy last night was in fair territory. I said, yeah, but he interviewed what would have been the last out. He said, Moises Alou told me he would not have caught that ball.

That's so messed up.

I have maintained forever, Moises Alou should feel deep shame for what happened to Steve Bartman. Deep shame. Bartman doesn't get that reaction. None of that happens if not Moises Alou throwing a tantrum like a child over a ball that he was not going to catch.

I am today years old learning that he could not have caught it.

No, he could not have caught it.

He just said he couldn't have caught it.

He could have caught it. The ball was clearly in foul territory though. That's not his hit. The fan has the right to the ball, and Moises Alou, like a child—

I'm gonna rewatch it.

Okay, thank you. You get back to us on that. And while you're at it, and, uh, maybe the answer to this is obvious to I think Zaslow said of Shane Beamer, his days are numbered. Is that phrase— does that come from execution, from prison? Days are numbered. I'd like—

He could have 100% caught that ball.

But in foul territory!

I don't think he could have.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

That is insane!

He would have gotten a glove shot.

100%!

This is like Tony saying that the field goal was good. Bartman has the right to—

100%.

I'm not—

everyone is saying it right now. No, you guys are insane. He absolutely could have caught that ball.

He could not have caught it.

It's hidden in his glove.

No, he could have caught it.

Yeah. Jeremy, what you're not allowed to do is walk into the room and say, who is saying that, when Amin said a minute earlier when you weren't here that David Sampson was saying that. No, Amin wasn't here.

I wasn't here.

Yeah, but just be silent in those instances.

In all instances.

Well, not in all instances. Just—

Not a bad note.

In most instances.

No, I took the note.

Just when you're not in the room and we've set something up and Amin has cleared set something up with credentials and names and sourcing. You don't come in because you haven't been listening and make the whole show revolve around your narcissism, because the show can't be the show unless you're in the middle of it.

That's my bit.

I'm gonna tell you something. I'm very down on Jeremy today. I gotta be honest with you, Dan. Tepid commissioner.

Oh, enough of this. Not tepid.

I told him—

I have told him—

I have told him— Let him set up what the objection is before you object to the objection.

I'm good.

So the audience can know what he's talking about.

Tepid commissioner.

Because?

So Amin lost last week in the bucket fair and square. He is challenging whether or not he has to do a punishment. And of course, it's the commissioner, tepid commissioner, who is hearing him out. Amin so far is winning this dispute because the tepid commissioner is not doing anything about it.

Hold on, first of all—

I've done plenty.

Why am I in this?

You haven't done anything.

Why am I in this? I presented a very strong case based on precedent.

Why are you talking like that?

What's the case? What is the controversy? Is anyone going to tell us why it is that Jeremy's a tepid commissioner? Is anyone going to tell us what Amin's controversy and objection is?

Fair commissioner.

I will set this up for you, Dan. Amin—

Slow down. Amin didn't like that I put a helmet back.

See, that's what a tepid commissioner does, just leaves. Just doesn't handle a problem.

So I pulled twice, I put the first helmet back, I pulled twice, and the team— the second team that I pulled lost. Amin didn't like that I put the first helmet back, but here's the detail that he always seems to omit when he is lodging this complaint. It's that the helmet that I put back was a Carolina Panthers. They were playing the Cleveland Browns. Carolina Panthers lost to the Cleveland Browns. So had I held on to the Carolina Panther helmet, he still would have lost.

Ladies and gentlemen of the court, the fine Mr. Michael wants to present a case that my objection was about the throwing back of the helmet to give you an illusion, to distract you from the truth. The truth of the matter is It was never about the putting back of the helmet. It was about the pulling of a first helmet to begin with. I'd like to cite years of precedent on this here program that when someone is in a segment and is going to leave the segment early, we have done one of two things.

Oh my God.

Either, number one, present that individual with the chance to pull his helmet or her helmet because we love that. his or her helmet ahead of everyone else's, and then the Reaper comes back later, or we move the appearance of the Reaper to earlier in the program. That's how we've done it for years, and it was a system that worked and everyone loved it. Now all of a sudden, now all of a sudden, Amin El-Hassan in the studio, stepped out the studio. Should we have had him pull it earlier? Should we have had him pull it later? No, we are gonna get this interloper, Michael, Michael, to pull on his behalf.

What was that voice you did?

Michael, you're doing Foghorn Leghorn.

Yeah, no, he's doing a southern attorney in a Mississippi courtroom.

Yeah, but if you've watched Coyote vs. Acme, this is a whole Foghorn Leghorn.

I do believe it's a good impression.

He's wearing overalls or suspenders.

Suspenders.

I said, I said Dan Le Batard. You're gonna go to Buffalo with Bernie Parmele. Mike Ryan.

And the Jags.

This is the Dan Le Batard Show. This is why he's teppin'. There's a case being made right now and the commissioner has left the room and is waiting outside. Can you imagine? Can you imagine if the NFL— there's a case going on in the NFL and Roger Goodell doesn't agree with what's happening, he gets up in the middle of the case and just waits outside in the lobby. That's a tepid commission.

I gotta be honest with you, I side with Jeremy on this. Chris was the last drop in a bucket on Jeremy's fed up with everything that's happening here, okay? But it isn't my fault that Jeremy left the room, came back, and the first question he asked was to something that had been answered— Who said that? That had been answered 35 seconds later.

Who's saying that?

So legitimately— Oh, the guy a minute ago? And the way that it worked was everyone who's listening to this knew the answer to that question except the person asking it because he wasn't in the room.

I like to imagine that he was asleep and he woke up to say, who said that?

So what is the ruling then? What's going to happen here? Jeremy, in the commissioner— this is something that's always a problem. We never have commissioners who have any kind of strength around here.

He'll be doing a punishment.

I have—

I literally got Amin multiple costumes because he wouldn't decide on which one that he wanted to use. So I spent time—

sorry, I'm trying to figure out how to get in this.

So I, I literally got him multiple costumes. He said, oh, I'll do the, the Odyssey costume. And I said, okay, great. And then he said, no, I'll be in character, I won't wear the costume. And I said, no, you will not. Absolutely not. We fought back and forth in a group chat over and over and over again. I insisted. Then he said, fine, I'll do Erlang Halon. So what did I do? I worked with our crack crew to make sure that we had both costumes on hand for Amin so that he could even have his choice in the matter.

So tepid.

But then he's here on Thursday, and by the way, had to fight with Mike in another group chat until ultimately, by the way, he caved. Even Michael was able to cave because I am anything but a tepid commissioner, okay? I'm on top of my shit.

No, you were wrong.

Good speed. You were wrong.

I had to take a mascot from the losing team. I had the Saints, and the guy was trying to make me dress like a dog.

That's fantastic.

Saints aren't— no, no, it's a— I picked a young recent saint that passed away and I wanted to share his story with the world. And yeah, I might have just been wearing a red polo, but that is a saint.

Dan, you should have seen this morning. I'm doing my work at the table out there, minding my own business, and Amin, while he is eating breakfast— I did not have a bagel today— Amin, while he's eating breakfast, okay, is laying into Jeremy. about how he's not doing any of this. Jeremy's sitting there in the fetal position. That's tepid.

But not tepid in what he just said. Like, he's just, he's just announced in front of everyone the ruling.

No, and he's gonna get a fine otherwise. Like, I am the commissioner. This is a new era of this bucket. Just because you're citing precedent, I mean, that's ridiculous. Like, you are absolutely paying this punishment, and if you don't pay it today, you will have to pay it off on another full day where Dan is here, because we all know this is for his kink. Tomorrow does not count.

I'm sorry, Mike, you dressed as Jake from State Farm?

Dwayne Johnson's right there. It's a great way to switch gears.

How do we feel about Jeremy as a Halloween costume? He's going to— Being Jeremy?

We can virtue signal.

He's going to put one apron on top of the other and be the NBA's second apron.

So scary. A good virtue signal.

Do you like that as an idea, Zazz?

I do.

I can't wait.

I do.

I'd like to steal that.

Really?

Yeah, I like it.

We all have to act very terrified though whenever he comes around. Like, ah!

Like, can I be the first apron?

He'll be the second?

Okay, you can be the first.

You could be James Dolan and just be really scared in the second apron.

I don't get everyone else for not understanding.

The thing about the second apron is— I, I was asked this question yesterday— why is it called an apron? And I said, I don't know. It's an apron. Like, it's a threshold, really, is what we're talking about. These are thresholds. How's an apron a threshold?

Apparently Stephen A thinks grief and mental illness are the same thing.

Put it on the poll @Le Batard Show. Do you know why they call it an apron? Because I don't know the answer to your question. Amin is our basketball expert. He is an executive. And the question is not something I can answer.

Everyone's teeing off, even colleagues at ESPN, more than comfortable to Throw Stephen A. under the bus, and you do not put Stephen A. Smith in a corner, I'll tell you that right now.

Wouldn't it be an awning? Right? An awning, like a second awning makes sense, right?

Like it's like a—

He's fighting his way out of it, and he will not capitulate.

A rung! Different rungs on a ladder. The second rung. Maybe that's— it doesn't sound high enough, right? The higher rung. Lower rung, higher rung.

It's like a gerbil trying to fight its way out of Richard Gere's nether region.

Does it seem to you as random as it being a second kimono? Like a second apron, a second kimono. Like, why is it a— why is it an apron? And why aren't more people asking, why is it an apron?

See, Stephen A says we just didn't understand what he meant, and he thinks that's gonna suffice.

A poncho, perhaps. It's the second poncho.

Second raincoat, right?

Like, What other garments are there? Maybe, maybe like a belt? Second belt. Oh, there you go, because you gotta tighten your belt when you want to save money.

Could have merely had it go away if he said my bad, but do you think Stephen A. Smith will ever say my bad?

Jeremy, do me the favor please of looking up what it is that the origins of days being numbered are. I don't know if it's a prisoner just, uh, you know, marking days in his cell. I, I'd like to actually know what the origins of that. You can also find for us why the second apron is called, uh, the second apron.

It's a protective layer.

That's it.

Oh yeah, so it could be like the coat or the rain jacket. They chose apron.

Yeah, but I would think that the first apron is fine enough. Like, second apron—

why is the second one—

why there's no third apron? Like, what, what is happening there with the aprons? Do you believe— I mean, if you had to guess a percentage of NBA fans who understand the second apron?

Very low.

Extremely low, to the point where, again, my friend who asked me why they call it an apron, I had to say, you know what, you don't need to know any of this. I, I think this is one of the great downfalls of sports fandom and the way we consume sports, is that everyone feels like they have to go get an accounting degree to understand. And the reality is, no, you don't.

It's so unfan-friendly.

Just watch the product and then ask the question, hey, can we go out and trade for Wembanyama? And I'll say no because of this rule or that rule. You don't have to know the rules. You just need to watch what you're seeing on the court.

You do have to know the rules. Part of being a fan is having conversation about trading for this player, signing this player. Fans like talking about that stuff, and the NBA has made it incredibly unfan-friendly that this is a real part of basketball discourse.

But I would argue 15 years ago it wasn't. People just cared about the product. They might say, oh, I wish we could get so-and-so, but they weren't like poring over the collective bargaining agreement.

No, man, 15 years ago was as simple as how much money do— does Team X have under the salary cap? Oh, okay, cool, they could sign that guy.

Yes, but also it was stuff like, hey, can we trade for so-and-so? And I was the guy who had to say no because the salaries don't match and all this other stuff.

Gerbil is a 12-episode investigative podcast from The Hollywood Reporter hosted by veteran journalist Alan Salkin, and it takes all 12 episodes to get down to the bottom of Richard Gere's bottom.

Nick Wright mentioned the other day when he was on with us that sports fans don't want to do homework. And I think today's sports fan wants to do homework more than any other sports fan that's ever existed.

And I think it's to the detriment of their enjoyment of the product. I think fans were happier when they just watched their team cheer, boo, maybe even pine for help. Can we get someone? But when they started getting into, oh, I gotta loan out the second apron and the taxpayer mid-level exception, that's not for them to worry about. In the same way that, like, I watch football, I still don't really know how the NFL salary cap works, like franchise tags and all this stuff. There's a lot of shit in NFL business that I don't get, but I don't need to get it. All I need to do is watch Jameis Winston.

Oh, we missed the window. Stephen A started First Take with a lengthy apology and said, quote, here's the reality of the situation. I was wrong.

The thing that I would ask Amin and the audience here, and I'd ask it as a poll question as well, because I really don't know how this is going to come back as an answer. Do you want to be a smarter fan? Yes or no? Because very often what I am finding is that sports fans who are the most passionate and the most religious about this, the most fervent, they want more and more information. They want more and more data. They want to know better what it is that they're watching. It's not true of everyone. And I would say in American society at large, we have a general literacy problem on where it is that people presently are on just learning But I don't think it's necessarily true of sports fans. Yes, some are formed, but I think I can form a pretty good argument that the sports fan that exists today is the smartest sports fan that has ever existed on average.

I think sports fans like having information when it pertains to the game. Like in baseball, learning about on-base percentage, that was important. Learning about slugging percentage, that was important. Fans don't want to hear about first and second aprons and the punitive measures that come along with being in the taks. That has nothing to do with the actual game.

So what changed from last night to this morning? Because he doubled down and now he apologized. Who got to him? Or did he realize the error of his ways and is turning over a new leaf?

I just kind of wish I was dumber overall. Like, it's, it's kind of miserable knowing everything. It's the best. No, ignorance is bliss. I really wish I was a dumber person. I'd be so much happier. So much fun, dude.

Um, it reminds me of a scene from Broadcast News.

You can be ignorant and not dumb.

The, the scene, the very unlikable— is it Holly Hunter?

Holly Hunter.

Holly Hunter.

Love her.

She in the movie is a bit off-putting and condescending, and her boss says to her, it must be nice to be smarter than everyone else, or it must be nice to know everything. And she's like, no, it's terrible.

Absolutely.

It is.

It's miserable.

What are the origins of days are numbered?

It, of course, comes from the Bible. And so, in Daniel 5:26, it says, God hath numbered thy kingdom and finished it. And then it was brought into colloquial terms, of course, the discovery of witchcraft from 1584, where they wrote that a man's body was subject to death and Hath his days numbered.

Witchcraft. What did you find out?

Ghost.

Lane Johnson's a ghost. What did you find out about the second apron or the apron or why it's called an apron? Yeah, it's that.

It's just the protection. It doesn't— tax apron doesn't seem to come up anywhere else, which is strange. I assumed that this was just a general financial term. But no, the immediate hit is to go to the NBA and where they have the first apron and the second apron, and it's just a border adding sort of limits and protections.

It's protecting the team from spending too much, protecting the owners.

From hot oil.

Yeah, I was just going to ask, protecting whom from what?

This is like the— what's it— Save College Sports Act or whatever. Protect college sports. Who is it protecting? Like, yeah, not the athletes. It's protecting the colleges.

Dan Le Batard.

Let's throw it to my boy Jeremy Taché, who's sideline right now. Cash money. What you got for me?

Jeremy Taché.

Thanks, Jax.

This is the Dan Le Batard Show.

Speaking of that, I saw that ESPN has been promoting a 6-part documentary series about Nick Saban. I participated in one of those recently. I'm assuming it's this one. I'm assuming there's not a second Saban documentary. And I'm curious whether you guys are curious about what's going to be revealed In that documentary, you can make the argument that Nick Saban is one of the great winners of all sports time. You can make the argument that he's one of the best leaders to ever emerge from sports in reputation. And this last act of his career is an amazing evolution, gets out at exactly the right time and just starts advocating on behalf of let me be the ambassador on behalf of protecting this better than anyone else can protect it. Are you guys interested in that documentary?

I am, because they played a clip on game day and I was really into the clip that they played on game day. It premieres tonight on ESPN, the first episode, and then upon that program ending, all the episodes are going to be available on demand. I read one review of it and says that it's good, but it only gets as inside Nick Saban as he allows you to get there. But like, even still limited access and not the full story. is plenty captivating from the clip that I saw.

I'm gonna tell you right now, and maybe this is bad on me, there is no part of they say, hey, we have a docuseries on an ESPN employee that is gonna be airing on ESPN that I think is gonna be even a smidgen of objective or illuminating or interesting in any way.

I like it when Nick Saban tries to be an asshole. And like, the clip that I saw, like, he was talking that shit. And I think that, look, he's one of the more important sports figures of my life, and he is way more interesting than Bill Belichick. And he— yes, he is much better in front of a microphone than Bill Belichick. He's had a more interesting story.

I don't like either guy. I thought Saban immediately came off likable while Belichick was his typically unpleasant self.

I think when Nick Saban speaks, I listen. I think he's a very captivating speaker. I think he's one of the best leaders of our time, and I want to find out about this story. And I want to marvel at the success that he had.

I have a handful of questions about what it is that you guys said and a story to tell you as well. I think that I heard Dominique Foxworth the other day— I think this was with Bomani— where Bomani was asking, as Nick Saban was being brought out to advocate on behalf of this act that we talked to Cory Booker about yesterday, he told you, hey, what ESPN is doing there is bogus, and Saban is obviously in bed with a rights holder, and that rights holder wants to protect its football money and football in general, which doesn't mean paying the athletes. And because I only saw a clip and I was listening passively, I'm pretty sure I heard this correctly. Somebody please correct me if you think I have this wrong, but it seemed to me that Dominique Foxworth wasn't allowed on the set with Saban, as somebody who's labor-friendly, who knows a lot about the NFLPA. And I haven't talked to Dominique about this, so I'm being a little irresponsible because—

Reckless?

A little reckless? In fact, let me do this. Yeah, yeah.

Can we look it up? Because I did see a quote of him saying that he did not like Nick Saban's appearance.

He said it was gross.

Yeah, he was made uncomfortable by Nick Saban's appearance on Get Up.

You're good. Uh, we can probably just call him and ask him, but because we're live and I'm stuck up in the air, I don't know what it is that I'm saying is true, but I think I heard it correctly when I— and, and it bothered me, right? Because I would love somebody to challenge Nick Saban on the air about this, especially somebody with Dominique's credentials, and it would bother me if I were Dominique or if I'm just a viewer that they don't allow Dominique to do anything that's challenging.

And this shows their hand, Dan, because Dominique's not a rabble-rouser here to just debate and kind of like go for low blows or whatever. He's a very intelligent guy who's gonna, I would think, create great television of us having the 2 different sides being discussed intelligently.

Oh, but you don't believe that Saban would be good with like a debate.

Saban has not been challenged whatsoever.

He's not gonna want to debate.

He's not been challenged whatsoever. The only thing that they do, they put their hands up, hey, I'm pro the players getting some money, like, and they think that that's virtuous.

The last time Saban got challenged on ESPN air was when Shane Gillis called him Indiana Jones.

Alabama Jones.

Alabama Jones. Oh my God, he was He was pissed. He did not like that joke.

The other story that I wanted to tell you in terms of where it is that these private protections can help some folks, Alex Rodriguez has had one of the most amazing reinventions I've ever seen from someone who was stained by a cheating scandal. Every broadcast team that wanted to put a voice on television was trying to hire Alex Rodriguez, and Alex Rodriguez at one time Do I have this right? He was working for Fox and ESPN at the same time, was he not?

He was, yeah.

For a while. And in the midst of all of that, Billy Corbin, the extraordinary documentarian, did a great documentary that you can still see that was called Screwball about how ridiculous A-Rod's cheating was and all the cheating was in baseball. And because ESPN had that documentary And because ESPN had A-Rod, they let the documentary go. They could have just killed it. So salute to them for actually allowing Billy Corbin to have it back so that he could put it somewhere. But they were protecting their own there in a way that obviously is a conflict. And so if ESPN is doing a Nick Saban documentary, does it have any chance of being warts and all? Does it have— because I think it's going to be interesting. I think Nick Saban is interesting. But if you can't get close to the truth, then it's going to be propaganda, and it's just going to be, hey, let's show this to Nick and see how he feels about it and give him some creative control over how he's presented. That becomes far too diluted for my viewing experience.

I think we're making a bunch of assumptions based off of one review that I alluded to, because like he does take you inside these moments. And I do think when it comes to Miami, he has his regrets and he's been pretty forthright Uh, in sharing those, and I imagine we'll learn something here. I, I— in his— in the clip that they showed on College GameDay, it was all about his return to Baton Rouge, and it played into Lane Kiffin's return to Oxford. And he was speaking truthfully, and like I said, it was captivating. And the people that they have weighing in on these moments in their career do give voice to other side and how much vitriol there was for him. So I think it's going to be pretty good.

I'm not making assumptions, Mike. I'm legitimately asking questions. And when you mention that Nick Saban has some regrets about Miami, you know that I have some regrets about how I talked about Nick Saban after he left Miami because I did not have a crucial detail that I would have to have. And it's a detail that would have explained some things about how he left Miami. And it's that Wayne Huizenga, the owner of the Dolphins, told him as part of his recruitment of Nick Saban, who did not want to go to the pros, didn't want to come to Miami, didn't want to test his ego in the NFL the way Urban Meyer needed to. Heisenga told Nick Saban that if at any point he wanted to leave or was unhappy, he could. And it's why when he left, Heisenga had a press conference in which he was not angry at all, because as part of Nick Saban's recruitment, he just said, look, if this is bad for you, you can just stop and I will not have any problem with that. Absent that information, I went really hard at Nick Saban and was over the top in terms of calling him names, and I have great regrets about that.

I know I'm guilty of this, but I tend to check out on documentaries before I see any of it because in my mind it's not going to be the documentary that I want to see. But let me ask you, was the Michael Jordan documentary, uh, as forthright as it could have been?

No.

Michael Jordan played a lot of things very close to the vest, and there were plenty of things that you wanted to hear about and you didn't. Was it awesome? Hell yeah, it was awesome.

It was awesome, but it was also a massive commercial that aired at a time where we didn't have a lot of original programming. We didn't have any sports programming.

Tiger King.

And, and on top of all of that, they got 3 minutes, bro. You're talking about the greatest mythology in sports, which is Michael Jordan. And Nick Saban, obviously storied career, he is nowhere near the size of a myth that Michael Jordan—

Oh, but in his, in his sport though, he is the greatest, the same way that Michael Jordan is the greatest.

The thing about mythology though, you're right, obviously you're right. I mean, but the qualifier I would offer to you is there is no greater mythology in sports than how we love the idea of leadership, of a person that That everyone who's strong wants to follow. Like, that mythology is forever interesting to people who believe that the muscle can't do it without the brain, that the muscle can't do it without the discipline. And this is one of the great discipliners of all time.

Yes, you're talking about a concept. I'm talking about an actual specific figure. The mythology of Michael Jordan, which by the way is all of that, is the muscle and the mind and the leadership and all Everything that you describe as a concept in one human being.

I'm fascinated to learn some insight. I think he's a great leader.

I—

there's a great speech that he gave about getting the right guys on the bus and high achievers, mediocre people that I think is like one of the more impactful speeches that I use.

High achievers don't like mediocre people.

Mediocre people, yeah, don't like high achievers. High achievers don't like mediocre people. My job here is to get the right guys on the bus. And it was a great speech. And I— the same way that people turn to the winner within, I think, I think Nick Saban in terms of leaders is of that ilk. But also, he once stepped over a convulsing player at Miami. I want to know if he's learned from trial and error from leadership.

You don't think also, though, that was the difference between coaching student athletes and coaching professionals?

Yeah. And I think also it's a difference as to why he's not coaching now, because the dynamic changed. I think Nick Saban is really good at leading when the buck stops with him. I think he knows how to run a program. I think he knows how to hire coaches. I think he knows how to instill a culture and also get coaches that can get the dudes. I think for that era in college football, there's a reason why he dominated, because he was the very best at it.

He also could reach a wide variety of people because I've heard a number of former players talk about his excellence and his wisdom, and Ricky Williams is among them, and he felt I have never felt understood by very few people in the world, never mind coaches. So you would think that a disciplinarian who could reach across all sorts of aisles to where it is that human beings are, that any information that you're getting, even if it's packaged and polished and a little bit of propaganda, is more information than you already have about something that people are wildly interested in.

Who said that?