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It's been 53 long years, and there's so many moments of misery that we had to endure as New York Knicks fans. And to be here tonight, I gotta confess, until this series, I never thought it would happen.
My entire life I've been waiting for this moment. I've been dreaming of this moment. I've been living and dying for this moment. I am out of my skull. I don't even know what to think. I don't even know what to do. I don't even know how to feel other than completely euphoric. This is truly a dream come true.
How do you feel? Uh, as like happy as I've ever felt. It's pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. It's been 53 years.
53 years!
Hey, take us through what every Knick fan in the world is thinking right now.
Well, you know what I'm thinking?
Back to Back to back! What a moment! What a moment for New York, for the Knicks! There's my brother John! Look at John and Spike! Oh my God, that's Johnny! Yeah! Props are happy for my brother John, a lifelong Knicks fan, and Spike!
It is time to celebrate. I'm so happy I'd even hug James Dolan, but just for a quick second and then move on.
Way rather this than the Oscars! Come on, baby!
Knicks are champions, baby!
Yeah!
We won!
We outside right now! Get my makeup done right now!
The streets is calling me!
The streets is calling me! Ah!
I haven't tasted a championship in a long time with the Yankees, but, man, this is great. I'm so happy. I'm so proud of them. I wasn't there, but I'm always there in spirit. God bless the New York Knicks and New York and my brother, John. I'm so happy for you, brother. Love you. Mike, what's up? It's Mars Blunt.
Mike Blackman, I know it's been a long time. You know, we haven't talked in a minute. The New York Knicks are world champions.
Call me back.
All right, Blue Skies. What's up, Mike?
And to be here tonight witnessing the end of a 53-year drought. Born in the Bronx, raised in Hollis, Queens, New York City. Been a New York Knicks fan all my life. I never thought I'd see it. I don't even know what to say. I can't even put into words how this feels. Hey, it's the best feeling I've ever had in my life.
Go New York, go New York, go!
This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.
Is it weird to any of you to see the media this openly cheering? Any of you? Like, are the walls fallen on that so entirely?
I don't think that's a thing anymore. I think that's so long ago that Wilbon wore his Cubs jersey doing reporting on the field.
Well, he wasn't doing reporting on the field.
He had a microphone in hand.
Well, but he was just throwing out the first pitch with his Cubs jersey tucked into his jeans. Like, he was So you're throwing out an honorary first pitch, but that time is dead then? You're just telling me it's totally over?
Yeah.
I don't know what to do with our senior Knicks correspondent. He is radiant and I'm not used to seeing it. It's weird to see him radiant because his career is now over because he's a happy human being and he can't be as funny as he is if he's going to be just a buoyant, radiant, happy human being. So Sam Morrill is with us. Sam, look at him. Have you slept?
Like what?
What's going on with you right now? What kind of thing has happened in your life ever that compares to this?
I mean, this is crazy, dude. This was, yeah, I haven't slept. It's crazy.
And that is the kind of enthusiasm I expect.
He's boss.
Yes, rioting in the streets. How do you feel about Wemby today?
He's a great player. He's a great player. Not a good sport. I've just never seen a French person be rude or arrogant before, so it's— weird for me to see. But, you know, he's an incredible talent. I hope he learns from this because that young Spurs team's incredible. But Wemby, like, it's just so weird to be 7'5" and also dirty. Like, you, you're already great. It's like if George Clooney roofied. You don't need to use the talent that you got. Use the skills. You've got the tools.
What was your reaction when Wemby Nyama was not called for what should have been a flagrant by sticking his foot under Brunson when he shot the 3?
I was pretty upset. I think most Knicks fans were like, what the hell? What's it going to take? I get that he's the face of the league, but like, come on, man. Like, it just felt like at a certain point he was trying to injure us. So as I said, I think he's a great player, but, you know, frustration, I guess.
Where did you watch the game? Give us some details of how it is the last hour played out for you of that championship game.
I watched my friend Stavros's, uh, it was pretty stressful. It was, uh, but you know, the thing about this Knicks team is like, the comebacks are crazy. Like, we were down I think 10 points every game, so, you know, it was kind of painful to watch at times, 'cause you're like, are we gonna come back? You know what it felt like? It felt like watching like any of those classic prison movies, like Shawshank.
I love prison movies. Love prison movies.
Well, we're just getting the shit kicked out of us for like 2 hours, and then the last 10 minutes you're just like, that was great, you know, like they find a way where you're like, this is, this was good. But yeah, I mean, for most of the game you're just kind of getting beat up and then they'd find a way. I mean, that comeback game 4 was crazy. That comeback, the Brunson masterclass game 5, crazy.
Sam, so Stavey's a Ravens fan, but also a Knicks fan at the same time?
Well, he's from Baltimore, so we didn't have a basketball team.
He's got the Wizards.
You can't, no. If you know anything about people from Baltimore, they can't root for the Wizards. They, you know, they're rivals. So when he came to New York, he was like, this is like the one sport I can adopt the team in. And I think my enthusiasm, like, and he's legit 'cause he got into the Knicks when our best player was like Tim Hardaway. So you can give him that, you know.
Didn't you used to do in-game entertainment for Madison Square Garden? Did you and Stavey did a basketball pod together, but didn't you also work around or for MSG?
We did, yeah. I got a region, a New York region Emmy nomination for interviewing on MSG.
That was your second best Knicks moment before Saturday night?
Yeah, my second best Knicks moment was losing to Joe, the Joe Girardi Show.
Joe Girardi Show.
No, Stav and I, Stav was telling me, I forgot this 'cause I blocked out some of the pain, but you know, we were at the game where Porzingis tore his ACL. You know, we were at some painful games together. Sharing the joy with your friends, it's pretty cool. My brother and I were at the Ewing-Fingerroll game together, so he was the first person I FaceTimed. You think about the losses and the pain, and then you get to celebrate with your friends and the people you're close to. So yeah, we went on 7th Avenue as expected. It was madness. It was awesome. Hugged a lot of strangers. Stav gave out pizza.
Uh.
Judd Apatow was with us. He was just like filming. We're like, this is hilarious. We're going to have footage that Judd filmed. So this is, you know, we'll hold on to that. It'll be fun.
Dan, he keeps saying his friend Stav. His friend is the guy that was in Begonia?
That's right.
That's a good movie.
Didn't even audition for it. It was— he was surprised by the call. Let's put up this picture here for Sam. It's a rare picture where you get Patrick Ewing holding a trophy that he was not able to win. The ghost of Patrick Ewing sort of lingers around this franchise as the best player they've ever had before. For the guy that's standing next to him. That picture is cool. And Jalen Brunson, you've never had a relationship with an athlete like the one you have with Jalen Brunson, right? Where you, you love him more than you love people you actually love that are in your life every day, correct?
Oh yeah. I mean, he's changed all of our lives in New York. He's incredible. He's a legend forever. He took a $100 million pay cut and it paid off. So I mean, I think when he did that, we were all like, wow, just the gestures cool, but to pull it off—
legend. I've— look, I don't like the Knicks, but I found myself moved by the Ewing-Brunson picture and Ewing standing there holding the Larry O'Brien Trophy because, you know, you think of the all-time great NBA players who never won. Ewing is one of the first you mention. You mention Ewing, you mention Barkley, you mention Stockton and Malone, Reggie Miller. None of those guys' teams eventually won. After they left. Like, those teams have still not won, and Patrick Ewing now is actually standing there holding the trophy, which we've been saying for decades he's one of the greatest to never win. It'd be like if Marino— if the Dolphins won the Super Bowl, it'd be like if the post-celebration pictures, Marino is posing with the Vince Lombardi Trophy. And I found the picture to be very moving. Like, I've never seen anything like that before.
Yeah, I'm with you, man. It was, uh, It was pretty cool. And it wasn't, you know, just him. It was Bernard King. It was all these old Knicks. I mean, Walt Clyde Frazier, who's, you know, kind of the face of MSG and all the guys, you could see it meant a lot to them. And Ewing and Houston and Sprewell and all these guys like Starks. It was, it was tough because I remember in Game 4 when Josh Hart missed that breakaway layup and it's like, you know, Josh Hart's become beloved the way John Starks is beloved and you just don't want I don't want anything to tarnish how much we care about these players and how much we've grown to love this team. So I was like, please don't lose this fucking game when Josh missed that. Because you think of John Starks at 2 for 18 and how it probably haunts him to this day. So the fact that they pulled off that comeback, like, thank God for that. Because you just— this felt like such a magical run. You know, they won the in-season tournament. They had this crazy playoff run. It's cool that they just pulled it off.
Before we let Sam go, I just want to give him his punctuation, one little parting gift here from our show.
[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Jalen Brunson isn't the answer.
It's an awful idea.
And for what?
To go all in in hopes of signing Jalen Brunson? And by the way, he's not a 1. I'm not even sure he's a real 2. And I worry that they're gonna look at Jalen Brunson and they're like, wait, We spent $27 million a year on this. I think the Thunder are gonna destroy them. The saddest sweepstakes ever.
The Jalen Brunson sweepstakes.
Is Jalen Brunson one of the 10 best point guards in basketball? Maybe he's 10.
I don't think he's top 10. I mean, he might not be top 14.
I don't think this is a move that puts them into playoff contention.
It's gotta be something in addition to Jalen Brunson.
But it is not going to be the type of player that elevates them into contender status.
But I mean, do we think Brunson is a guy that is going to bring them to a second-round playoff series? He's not. I think the Thunder are going to destroy them.
I mean, Kevin Durant is playing basketball in New York City and you're just like talking about, can we get Brunson?
I think the Thunder are going to destroy them. The Knicks are acting like he's KD. I'm going to repeat, Jalen Brunson.
Your thoughts, Sam, on that and, uh, Stephen A. Smith saying it's the greatest feeling he's ever had in his life.
Well, I've said this about Stephen A. Smith before, but he, he's a Knicks fan the way Epstein's a Jew, technically, but we don't really claim him. Uh, I'll also say this, you know, acting like he's KD— he's not KD. He didn't join a super team. He joined and built the team. So much respect to KD, he's a great player, but you got to put Brunson in a different category. This is a, this is a Kawhi or Dirk Finals MVP. This is pretty badass, and, uh, yeah, we can't believe it. I mean, it's a crazy run. All those people are going to have to remember doubting this great player who became an underdog story. It's going to be a great 30 for 30, great Ben Stiller doc. And I'll say this, when we signed him, I was like, he's going to be great. And I knew it because even his floor was going to be the best Knicks point guard in 20 years.
Wow.
Even if he wasn't that as good as I thought he's going to be, then I didn't think he was gonna be this good. Obviously no one did. But even if he was what he was in Dallas, he's our best point guard since Marbury, right? So I was hyped. Uh, I was hyped about the OG move. I was also hyped about the Andrea Bargnani move. I'm a delusional Knicks fan. Work yourself up about it.
It's a big stretch 5 though, Sam. That dude could hit a 3.
I was like, dude, him with Carmelo, it could work. It could work, you never know. So I've talked myself into madness, but yeah, I mean, holy shit. I mean, I always believe, but I kind of can't believe it.
Good to see you. Congratulations, you are a champion, sir, and a champion that nobody thought was going to be the champion. Congratulations.
Can't believe it. All right, thanks, guys.
See you later. You could just feel the joy popping from him. It's like a champagne bottle opening. The party just starts immediately.
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Ehehehe.
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Hey, that's what I'm talking about.
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Da Libertad!
We're gonna win! Stugatz!
We're gonna win! They're annoying.
What an old reference. This is the Don Levatar Show with the Stugatz!
If you're wondering, incidentally, why it is that we have not talked at all about the Stanley Cup Final and Carolina winning the championship—
Ah, it's an asterisk, come on.
It's because they didn't do it against the Panthers and it doesn't count. You can just put an asterisk on it and that concludes our Stanley Cup Final coverage. Also, I realize that the World Cup is in in town because I hear pub songs being sung in accents all over our city. Everywhere, just drunken pub songs being sung. And it was just a giant sports weekend in general. We're going to have Luke Thomas on here in a second to talk about the fights.
Ah, see, I told you we're going to talk about the fights. Let's go.
I don't think we're going to end up talking about the fights themselves very much. I think we're going to talk about just—
They were good fights.
The general corruption that's happening.
Great fights.
You should have ended that last one quicker.
—in the link between— thank you, appreciate the commentary there.
Good note, man.
Director— yeah, film— director's cut there, director's commentary. You could have saved it till after the show, commercial break before the show tomorrow. But good that you just told the audience that we should have cut Sam off 3 minutes early. I appreciate that.
Ever seen a rain delay for UFC?
I mean, they were fighting under really suspect conditions. Look, I do have to give Dana White credit on this because he did this during the pandemic as well when no one could get his business up and running. They did something that I never imagined UFC would ever be able to do in any way in making themselves this kind of mainstream. They've done it corruptly, they've done it with alliance to Trump that's unseemly that we will talk about with Luke Thomas here in a second. I'm not really— I'm not bothered by sort of the optics of whatever you think is the classlessness of having cage fights on at the center of our government. Washington is a swamp. They fought outdoors, that's not good for the fighters. They fought in the heat, mosquitoes, rain, I mean, none of that is good for the fighters, but they pulled off an event that is really hard to pull off, and I don't believe a lot of people understand just how hard it was to do all of that, and the fights being good, uh, that is a victory last night for the UFC. I don't think it's a victory for our country.
I don't think it's a victory for our president, but it is a victory for the UFC that they're able to, uh, their constituency, they rewarded with a giant event that was, yeah, delayed by rain because they can't control the weather, but it's flat-out crazy to do that outdoors. Like, it's just insane to do any of that without a roof and allow the weather to play any kind of elements. Like, that event could have been a disaster even with perfect weather. It could have been even more of a disaster than that with bad weather. But Luke Thomas, as I've told you, is practically unrivaled in this space. Only Ariel Hawane do I put anywhere near him in terms of being able to do journalistic stuff in this sport that Dana White doesn't want in this sport, and he does the politics better than anybody I've heard as it relates to this sport. I will remind you guys that Morning Combat is on the DraftKings Network, and he's also the host of Luke Thomas Gets Political. Now, were you invited? Would you have gotten credentials to this event given what it is that you say publicly, or would you have been denied if you went after credentials for this event?
I mean, that's a great question. Also, I don't know, like, why do you look like the Lorax this morning? Are you a Knicks guy? I didn't know you were. I thought you were— I thought you were a Heat guy.
I'm told I look like Redfoo from LMFAO. Redfoo is what I'm going for. Yes, this is a— it's just costume design here to add to the entertainment. But yes, I've been— I've been with the Knicks for like a whole— I don't know, I'm going to say 6 weeks.
Yeah, me too. It's been great and fun to watch. Um, yeah, I, I, um, I don't think I could get credentialed. I could be wrong about this. I want to— I don't want to— I don't want to smear UFC unfairly. I think there's plenty of fair criticisms to make, but I don't even bother. And I want to be clear about why I don't even bother, because it's actually important to say, because someone might say, oh, you could still go, right? But partly I didn't want to be even party to what was happening yesterday on that kind of a level. And more to the point, like, if you— I understand UFC in ways that I think a lot of casual fans do not, which is that everything with them is maximum leverage. Everything with them is maximum leverage. In other words, if you ever need something from them, my experience has been they'll hold it over your head. Uh, and so I just don't even want to approach a relationship where I'm like thinking about how am I going to get to shows, and then I get a call about my coverage and now there is some kind of conflict there.
I can just tell you, Dan, I had a conversation with someone very high up at UFC and they explained to me that I was quote persona non grata. So So I take that as I'm not really supposed to be there.
I urge all of you to listen to what Luke did with Pablo Torre recently on Pablo Torre Finds Out, because they dive deep into just how corrupt and dirty some of this money is. But what can you tell us for our audience, the business connection between Trump and Dana White? How would you explain it to people factually, not politically, factually, in 60 seconds or less?
I would say it extends well beyond Trump at this point. It's almost Conservative Inc. You'll recall there were Turning Point ads on the Octagon. On. They were airing Turning Point ads at the Fan Fest. Obviously, Meta to me is almost regime-aligned at this point. So it's not just them, but the basic answer is pretty simple. Dana White obviously helped Trump to return to power. They got this event. The meme coin— or actually, there's another meme coin. That's not right. World Liberty Financial, which is basically the center of Trump's corruption financially anyway, for self-aggrandizement. They were helping to pay the bonuses and were something of a sponsor of this event. On top of it, Truth Social, Truth Social was a sponsor of this event, which I don't really even understand since Truth Social doesn't really even have any money that I, I genuinely don't even get that. Also on top of it, I was told by sources on Capitol Hill that the legislation that they want to push through, that's TKO-backed so that they can take over boxing, that the White House had said that this was a priority for them, which is why it's the first labor bill that got taken up by Congress in 2026.
As I mentioned before, on top of that, Trump has bought TKO stock, and then people will tell you, yeah, but who cares, he doesn't run it. First of all, I'm not sure I even really believe that, and second of all, it's just flatly immaterial because he's still in fact going to benefit. And this is merely the tip of the iceberg. Recall UFC had their ice ads until Renee Goode was killed. There's just numerous ways in which there is just dovetailing between the Trump administration and UFC's business, financial to the degree that you're asking, Dan, but it goes well beyond that too.
What is real and not real about that exchange with Daniel Cormier and allegedly Eric Trump, where he's showing DMs and a lot of people were talking about something that I don't know that's been verified in any way. What's real here when you've got Eric Trump evidently asking for whether fights are rigged or injury information?
Is this not the most insane thing you've ever— I just, I've been covering combat sports for 20 years and every single time I'm like, oh, I've seen it all. And then, you know, you get the lead commentator, one of the lead commentators for UFC, who was a two-time Olympian, former captain of the Olympic wrestling team, two different, uh, two-weight world champion in UFC. Then he posts this conversation, or whatever this is. I mean, again, to the extent like this is even real, on his Twitter account. And to be clear, folks are asking, is it real? He tweeted it. Now, does that mean that there's another reason that he tweeted it? That's where the debate comes in. But was it executed, so to speak, on Twitter? Yes, it was. And now there's like, well, he's, for example, Eric Trump is like, well, it's AI generated. Why would Daniel Cormier tweet an AI generated conversation between himself and Eric Trump? That makes no sense. And I, you could say, well, he got hacked. Okay. That does seem at least plausible on its face, but then how did he recover it so quickly? I, I, that, that, like, there's just a series of unanswered questions, but like the longer I stay in combat sports, the more it just appears to me that absurdity and chaos and weirdness are the defining features of this culture, almost more than the violence is.
This from Jamel Hill: UFC fighter Josh Hoket concluded his post-fight match with Joe Rogan by calling former First Lady Michelle Obama a man. It was disgusting. And keep in mind, this UFC Freedom 250 event is using some of your taxpayer money to put on a tacky display of performative patriotism. This is supposed to be a celebration for America that theoretically is a proud display of shared values and love for the country. Also, Rogan didn't say word. The broadcasters on the call said nothing. This is despicable. Uh, what did you think?
I mean, the, the news is, it's worse than that. Understand something about Josh Hookett. So first of all, this guy was a collegiate wrestler, and he briefly, briefly, briefly, I think, flirted with the practice squad for the 49ers. But he's a good athlete, and they need good athletes at heavyweight. So what they did was they pumped this guy through something called the Contender Series. This is a tryout show that the UFC has. I guess it's going to air on Paramount Plus. It was airing on ESPN Plus previously. So think of it as a, as a job interview, right? It's an audition to get on. Hoket wins there, and then during the post-fight Q&A period that you saw this in a similar way— it wasn't with Rogan, but, you know, the same kind of concept— he did it there. So like, literally at a job interview years ago when he wanted to get into the UFC, he rolled that out at the same time. And not only did they sign him, but they've been fast-tracking him to the title. I need everyone to understand Like, it's so funny, Dan. It's so funny. Can you believe that there are people who have tried to debate me on the idea that MMA is not a right-wing sport?
I'm like, you have got to have been hit in the head with a tire iron to the point where your frontal lobe no longer functions really in any sort of observable capacity. It is quite obviously right-wing to the bone. It can be nothing else at this point by virtue of look at the speech codes that are tolerated. And I want to say something. Folks might say, say, well, should the UFC hammer Josh Hoket? We can have that debate about what that answer is, but here's what I do know for the free speech organization, Dan. If a fighter is destitute but they win a fight, and then they— in the post-fight interview where someone puts a microphone in their face and they ask him, hey, can I have a post-fight bonus? I really need some money. There's an informal rule at the UFC where they— or I should say an informal practice where they won't give them that money if they do that because they see it as embarrassing. But I thought thought this was the free speech organization. They just have a speech policy that ends up being— they don't design it this way, but it's de facto pro-slur because it's the only kind of extra speech you can do beyond the normal Overton window that they'll ever allow.
And that's how they get away, though, with saying we're freer than others, though. No, like, we— our speech is freer than others. We allow the slurs. I don't— Dana White doesn't govern those.
Can we say something about the mainstream media, Dan, on this? I feel like it's really important. Not shows like this, not some other ones. I've actually, I've done some really good ones too, but it is mind-blowing to me that Dana White can, after his, he's a fight promoter for crying out loud. And I know I've made this point elsewhere, but it is insane to me how credulous mainstream media is when Dana talks. They don't ask questions, they don't push back. They don't wonder what the narrative is. So he can get out there and say, say this is a free speech organization.
They treat him like a commissioner instead of a fight promoter.
It's, it's, it's like, it's the most absurd level of abdication of their responsibility. Like, you wouldn't— anybody who knows anything about the fight game would never do something like that unless they just like that guy and don't care about using their brain. It is— the mainstream media will just listen to things that Dana parrot it back to their audiences, and then it becomes lore. And that's exactly, by the way, Dan, how we got a situation where there's— I mean, I lived through, uh, MMA from 2001 to 2016. When I tell you Trump figures nowhere in that conversation, nobody cared about him. He wasn't relevant. He was briefly in the scene in 2009. But the point being is Dana White can get out there and say things like, oh, if it wasn't for him, you know, UFC wouldn't be where it is. This is just a lie. Yeah. It's just a lie. There's nothing else to it. It's absolutely matter-of-factly not true, but he can just say it and they'll repeat it. And so it just becomes truth in the end.
Don Lebatard.
But it's just his titties are sitting on the shelf that is his belly.
Stugatz. You said titties. It shocked me a little bit. I wasn't quite prepared for titties. This is the Don Lebatard Show with Stugatz.
Tyson Fury wasn't supposed to be allowed into this country because of his affiliations with a drug kingpin, but was a part of that celebration yesterday. What happened there? How does that happen?
Boy, that is a million-dollar question. As soon as I saw him, the first thing that went through my mind was, oh, oh, I didn't know he could be back in the country, because it wasn't just him. Jake Paul wanted to fight the brother slash— what are we gonna call him? Half-brother Tommy Fury here in the United States. And he couldn't get in either. I don't know if his situation has changed, but he's had to take fights overseas as a consequence of not being able to fight here. So when I saw him, I was like, huh, Trump— excuse me, when I'm saying Trump, Fury has long ties to Daniel Kinahan and his MTK Group and the training facilities and everything there. This drug kingpin who was recently apprehended, although he was hiding out in Abu Dhabi. And the person who kind of tweeted about it all to congratulate Fury was Turki Al Sheik, who's kind of like the face and the forward guy guy who does sports from Saudi Arabia in, you know, Western or other countries. He's kind of that dude. And he was like, congratulations, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, you noticed Riyadh Season was also sponsoring this event at the White House last night, which is also its own little weirdness.
Now, I, I'm, I'm making speculation here. I don't want— I'm not reporting anything, but it just seems to me that if a guy has a Treasury sanction where he can't come over because to a drug pen and then the business associates and, and by the way, Dana White might have a direct financial investment through Zuffa Boxing. They didn't announce that, but it seems like that's what that's hinted at. They can just get things changed for themselves by virtue of their proximity to the regime. It just sort of shows there's this spoils system, this patrimonialism that surrounds Trump world of which now the UFC has just dove headfirst into.
Yeah.
There's no disputing that last night was a victory for UFC, correct?
I think that's right. Yes, I do. I think understanding something— so just put your blinders on for a minute. This is not me asking people to agree. It is asking me— them to understand, or at least try to understand, from an MMA fight fan's perspective. And this does not mean that they're pro-Trump either. They could be like, well, we don't like Trump. But like, you understand something? Fight fans want this kind of thing anyway. I don't mean large structures on the White House lawn. But they want pomp and circumstance. They want pageantry. They want big lights. They want atmosphere. And so on a basic level, that definitely was delivered to them. And there's also another factor to consider here, Dan, which is, you know, it's kind of funny. Everyone thinks the UFC is riding high. And I do think this event will do a very, very good number. But if we're looking at the last few years, I have thought that MMA— the evidence is not conclusive, but I have thought that there's been reason to think that MMA is contracting. Um, and so they have not had big events. They've not had big pageantry.
I think they've been starving for something like this. So they were willing to just take it almost anywhere they could get it. And again, there are obviously some pro-Trump elements, some big pro-Trump elements in there, but it's not just that kind of a thing. And I also saw, Dan, a lot of people in conservative media saying, you know, Donald Trump delivered this for us, like this is some kind of policy objective and campaign promise that he made good on, rather than just having a party that basically the UFC itself himself was tasked with having like, you know, the event management therein. And, you know, I know there was some polling to this effect, Dan, where you had, for example, 16% of most Americans saying they thought it was a bad idea to have it, 31% of Republicans, which both, either number is very, very bad. I suspect that Republican number will go up after this. I suspect that they're going to say, you know what, we really, really loved this kind of display of one-third CPAC, one-third July 4th, and then one-third UFC. Yeah. All of these ish, all of these different entities working to lift the other.
Luke, so with all that out of the way, Ilia Topuria going in 17-0, he had the white rose for Justin Gaethje, and then all of a sudden the highlight came through with one of, I think, the greatest upset in UFC history. Where did you see it from, bro?
Can I ask a question?
Can I, can I pitch back a fight one here? A fight one?
Yes. Uh, no, the, the MAGA stuff in MMA, are you down with it or Am I?
No. I love, I love the sport, right? Like I'm not MAGA. I don't care for that. Like I watch the sport and love the sport. So like we covered it on the MMA Hangout. We loved all the fights. They were incredible. I'd like to run through some of them with you if we can.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just—
No, you're good. You're good. Biggest upset ever though. He just hit you with biggest upset ever.
Well, biggest upset ever is a little strong, but it's big. It's real, real big. I mean, Justin Gaethje is a guy who's been the bridesmaid and never the bride, despite having like a really fan-friendly style. And getting better over time too, but faced setback when he got to the hill. Very Sisyphean kind of approach to a career. But you know, sometimes there's these guys who were, you know, they chop the wood, they swing the ax and they can't get there and they can't get there, but they keep swinging. And then somehow not in their prime, but at the end of their run, like Michael Bisping against Luke Rockhold at UFC 199 is a great example of this. They just kind of finally break through. Now I do think that Ilia Topuria really fought quite poorly, and I don't think you can look the other way. But it doesn't matter. Justin Gaethje threatened to retire from UFC, and when normally when you do that, they're like, yeah, there's the door. But nevertheless, they gave him an interim title fight to get this one. Everybody counted him out. He's nearly 38 years of age. He's been— he's got a million miles on him and then some, and yet I think had one of the best performances of his career.
A true sporting triumph. Whatever else you want to say about the event.
His jab was locked in. I mean, he absolutely cut up, uh, Topuria from the jump. And we were like, oh my God, like, wait, something's happening here. Justin has his jab working. He was getting overhand rights. He was trying to do that, that one-leg takedown with an uppercut matching the knee that he thought that he hit, uh, Topuria with. I thought broke his, his ribs. That's when they kind of called it in the 5th round. It was an incredible fight. I think it's probably one of the biggest upsets. Luke, obviously you have an incredible history. Um, speaking of history, Alex Pereira was going for it in the co-main event, trying to be a 3-division champion. Cyril Gane looks like a man possessed, dude.
Well, let me tell you something, I'm gonna give you name. In fact, he fought on this MVP card. I know you know him, uh, Tony, but for the other listeners out there, this is dude out there who I've been real high on. His name is Saladin Parnas. He's French, and the UFC wanted to sign him.
Yes.
UFC wanted to sign him, and he was like, yeah, but you got to pay me a bunch of money. And they were like, no. And I'm like, what a mistake. Pay this guy. So he fought in an organization called KSW, which is a very good— it's based in Poland, but it's like a good— if you win there, you're gonna go places. Let's just put it that way. He has been their 145 champ and their 55-pound champ, and he was dominating everyone in both those weight classes. So then he goes to 70, and I'm like, this dude is so good, he's going to kill at 70. And he got whooped. He got whooped bad. It really reminds me of that. Like, there's a reason no one has won 3 weight class titles in the UFC. You have to— you have to level up in such a way that is basically— I'm not going to say impossible, but it's only going to be possible for the best kind of guy. But I want to say something. Everyone was like, oh, Poitain's going to be in his natural weight. And I'm like, I don't think that that's necessarily the greatest call.
Think about how many athletes we watch in other sports who have to either bulk up or get down to something for optimum sports performance. Yeah, you might be more comfortable at your natural weight, but is that peak sports performance? Clearly not. And also, and you know this, Tony, Gane is like naturally athletic at £260. He is quick, he's agile, he can move, he has good footwork. I always thought for something of a plotter, that Poatan is. This was a bad matchup. I actually picked Gane to win pre-fight. I didn't think he was going to stop him, but I thought he was going to win. Gane versus Aspinall too, all of a sudden one of the biggest fights you can make in heavyweight.
Yep. How do you separate— Luke, we've got less than a minute left— how do you separate the way that you feel about everything that's happening in a sport that you clearly love and that the fights are great? You have politics all around it embedded in everything you're doing, but you still love the fights. Does it— how do you separate both both the, the messenger and the message?
I'm not sure that I can anymore. Um, I've lost a lot of sleep over this. I, I don't— I don't know how to answer that anymore. I mean, it used to be that it wasn't enough such that it made me feel ethically compromised, but now it's enough where— I mean, there— this is the de facto sports arm of the Trump Department, the Trump administration at this point, right? I mean, that's just what it is. And I think a lot of fight fans are going to look the other way and say they don't care, but I feel like the damage that Trump is doing to the country is so severe and our future so compromised that I have no choice but to pick a side. And it puts me in a place where I honestly don't know where I fit in in MMA anymore. I don't know that I do. And I don't know what my future holds, if I can just be perfectly honest with you.
I mean, you were in the military— real quick here before you get out— you're talking about sort of crisis of conscience stuff that literally keeps you up as you decide whether it's worth the career you've built, it's really hard to do what you've done to amass the following and the credibility in that sport. And you have an uneasy relationship with that.
Yeah, I mean, I got into combat sports because I was working for, as basically a speechwriter in DC, and I hated it because the only people who needed my help were like the oil and gas industry. And I was looking for an escape. I just didn't wanna do it anymore. And so I got into MMA thinking this is just so free from those concerns, who cares? Care. Who cares? And then it brought me all the way back to this place. And, you know, one little anecdote, if I may, before we get out of here, is when I had that job and it was so, uh, bad for my, my, my, uh, my, my, my mental health, um, my fingernails all fell out from stress. My body just reacted in weird ways. I went to the doctor and he was like, you're just under too much stress. I basically feel the same way now. Um, I wake up every day wondering, should I even be doing this? And I don't— I genuinely just don't know how to answer that more.
All of us are just sort of depressed by that. Like Grundelfly. I mean, just fingernails falling off from the stress and the conflict. It is, uh, there's a cost on being a moral man in the modern age. He's Luke Thomas, journalist, analyst, and host of Morning Combat on the DraftKings Network. Thank you, uh, Luke. Uh, appreciate the time, sir.
Always a pleasure. Thank you.
"Red Food, that's what I'm going for."
Sam Morril stops by, full of joy and totally unfunny, to celebrate his Knicks. Then, Luke Thomas is here to discuss UFC 250, the Daniel Cormier and Eric Trump deleted tweets, the insane quotes hurled by Josh Hokit at the end of his interview, and... THE FIGHTS!
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