Transcript of Is Jaylen Brown Right About Stephen A. Smith And Journalism? | Hour 1 New

This is the Dan Levitart Show with the Stugatz Podcast.

This episode of the Dan Levitart Show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Let's continue to just play occasionally for no particular reason. Troy Aikman, who works and is paid by the Dolphins and by ESPN, talking about how he has no conflict.

I don't feel there's a conflict, but I will say I'm pulling for the Dolphins.

That's top comedy right there. Also top comedy is we spend all this time talking about James Harden. James Harden in a Game 7 goes 2 for 10, uh, goes 0 for 6 from 3. He's +31 in the game, and, uh, that is as much of a demolishing as you will ever see by the road team in a Game 7. Game 7s are won by the home team, the better seed, about 80% of the times, as— but basketball Basketball has officially changed, and I got a little bit left behind as recently as last week when I was saying, oh, it's going to be like it always is, some form of 1-2 in the West and some form of 1-3 in the East. And now what you have instead, for the 6th time in 7 years, you have a conference final in basketball— zazz— our most predictable sport that doesn't have a 1 or a 2. I'm going to say that again because Everything has changed with this sport, with the threes, with the absence of close games. The playoffs are not giving us buzzer beaters. They are not giving— basketball's playoffs are not giving us close, interesting games.

This Game 7 doesn't have a whole lot of precedent. I know a few years ago, uh, the, the team of Devin Booker and DeAndre Ayton lost to Dallas at home in a Game 7, uh, but I'm going to give the stat again. 6 of the last 7 years, one of the Conference Finals isn't featuring a 1 or a 2. That's not normal for this sport. And it's a place the sport has changed. And I'm going to say changed for the better because it makes it less predictable, makes the regular season less relevant than it's ever been. But basically the flaw in Detroit is the flaw that you cannot have, which is they couldn't shoot their true shooting efficiency. Is so bad that if you're not in the top third in the league, you're not going to get further in the playoffs. That was still stunning to me though, to see a Game 7 lost at home that way. And while we spend a lot of time talking about James Harden and Donovan Mitchell, Durant just had as bad a postseason as I've ever seen an All-Star have. Like, I cannot remember in my lifetime— I went and looked it up Not since Elgin Baylor has a player gone from averaging what he did in the regular season to averaging 9 points less.

When you look at what it is Durant had during the regular season, he had 6 games where he scored 10 or fewer points. He had 7 of those in the playoffs. Like, I don't understand why it is that we're focusing on all the other All-Stars and this guy's going to skate. He's not going to skate regionally in Detroit. They're going to know it. But nationally, and he's in a contract year, correct? Yep. Like, that is an uncommon disaster. I want to ask you guys, maybe you guys can offer me something here that I don't get. The last couple of years, okay, I have seen that the New York Knicks have against Cleveland and Toronto, the way they match up is Cleveland and Toronto have no shot against the Knicks. Mitchell Robinson does something to Mobley and Allen that nobody else in the league can do to Mobley and Allen. And Mobley and Allen just did that to Durant. Like that. The reason he looked like that is because those guys are big and they're physical and they play very well defensively, and they ended up making him an All-Star. I'm gonna say it again, in my lifetime there has never been an All-Star drop-off like that in basketball.

And he's gonna skate, nobody's gonna end up talking about that today. They're going to end up talking about all the other things, but they're not going to talk about one of the All-Stars for Detroit didn't show up in a historic fashion.

Okay, so let's preface everything and anything I say now moving forward when it comes to the NBA. I don't know shit, alright? Because I've been wrong about everything with this playoff. I can't even pick a single game, alright? I thought that the Pistons would win Game 7. I thought the Cavs would win Game 6. I thought the Wolves would win Game 6. I didn't have the Lakers winning a single game this postseason. I don't know shit, alright? Alright, now that we got that out of the way—

What's your prediction for tonight? Big one tonight. Oh yeah, let's all fade Zazz.

I mean, I think the Spurs are gonna win the series.

Oh good, okay, thank God.

So you got the Spurs tonight?

I think the Spurs are gonna win the whole thing.

So you got Spurs tonight?

Uh, I mean, do I have them tonight? I don't know, I have them winning the series.

Make a decision, man!

I did, I have them winning the championship!

No, you didn't!

Okay, you made up the—

There's no bigger decision than who's gonna win the championship!

Tonight!

Give me some time to think about it. Okay, now I will say, when it comes to Cleveland, like, they're at their best when their big guys play well. Allen and Mobley. We can talk all we want about Mitchell, and Mitchell was phenomenal last night. Boy, James Harden, that narrative continues. He stunk last night. My God, can you imagine if they lose that game? Harden's 2 for 10 and 0 for 6 from 3.

Oh, he was plus 31.

He's much—

well, the team was up by 40 the whole game.

His much-maligned Game 7 averages, he stunk, went down.

It's crazy.

He's terrible. He's terrible. But Cleveland is at their best when their big guys play well. They just don't do it enough. And their big guys were fantastic last night. The Darnan thing, I don't even know what Clea— what Detroit does there. He is gonna be a free agent, and you'd have to assume his best regular season year of his career, he was an All-Star, he's the second-best player on the team presumably, you would assume he's gonna ask for a max contract. Well, when you're Detroit and you're a young growing team, You now have to be really careful where you're spending your money next to Cade Cunningham, and you're gonna do it by giving that guy who was so bad in the playoffs $40+ million a year. I don't know what you do if you're Detroit, I really don't.

Not only that, you have Asure Thompson's new contract.

He can't play offense.

Yeah, but he's— he's—

I get it.

You're gonna pay him a ton of money to play one side of the game.

I know, but you heard Kenny Atkinson's comments after the game. Like, their whole strategy was have the ball on the side of the floor where Sar Thompson is not.

That was great.

And what they say on offense.

No, but that was great though. When Kenny Atkinson is asked, what adjustments did you make? And he's like, tactically, tactically, what we did is wherever Thompson is, throw the ball to the other side.

It's a big deal.

They didn't guard him.

I understand.

They did.

No, no, they did not guard him. I don't think you understand because you're saying—

I said I—

you don't get it.

Obviously they're Tony Allen-ing him. He's got— he's wearing Timberland boots out there.

Their front office, Dan, kind of skating a little bit. And to be fair, I haven't sampled Pistons fans. I'm sure it's probably a conversation point for them. But this is exactly the kind of young superstar-driven team that needed a veteran acquisition at the deadline. Some dude to— like the James Harden acquisition that Cleveland made. Detroit should have looked at that. Like a guy like Norm Powell could have helped them a lot. They, they should have made a move.

You know what would have helped them? Malik Beasley. Pablo killed him though.

Well, but Duncan Robinson is what they tried to replace that 3-point shooting with, and you saw Tobias Harris didn't give them very much yesterday either. Uh, but how about this from Tommy Beer? Uh, per NBA's tracking data, when Harden and Mitchell were defended by Thompson in the series, they were 6 for 33 and had more turnovers than field goals. What is that worth? Uh, Tony, what's that worth?

Not a max deal.

Okay, but But what's it worth? That league, that team prides itself— the way they got to where they got was not shooting. The way they got to where they got is physical and defense. That's, that's— that team won 60 games this season, Tony. Did they win 60?

Yeah, there's a much better chance of him improving being able to hit a corner 3 than there is him being able to improve being a poor defender to maybe the best defender.

I'm going to give that stat again because Stan Van Gundy says he's far and away the best defender in the league, but Mitchell and Harden were 6 for 33. They shot 18% when he guarded them, and they had more turnovers than field goals made. They made all of 6 field goals. And Kenny Atkinson says after the game, that's the highest compliment you can give, right? Game 7, what was my tactical strategy? Just keep the ball away from wherever Thompson is. Yeah, like, that is why Kenny Atkinson is their coach. Kenny Atkinson has unlocked some things that never get unlocked in Cleveland unless LeBron James plays for them. But that team, you tell me, can you look up something for me, Jeremy? Because I think Jared Allen missed one of the series against the Knicks. I had to think that Knicks fans were rooting very hard for Cleveland yesterday because they have smoked Cleveland and Toronto the last 3 years over the run of Jalen Brunson. They just dominate those two good teams. Those are two good basketball teams. And, and it's because of what I'm telling you, Jared Allen and Mobley, for whatever the reason is, Mitchell Robinson does something to them that I don't, that I don't totally understand because he does it to some people.

But that front line is formidable against just about everyone else.

But it was believed that the key part in them acquiring James Harden was specifically to address the mismatch against New York because Harden does things. He can get to the line, get even Robinson in foul trouble. And I don't know what the sample is after they acquired James Harden. I believe they played once. And Cleveland won that game.

Uh, Tony, to your point though, what is defense worth? Uh, the Knicks were built to combat the Celtics on the perimeter. Anunoby and Bridges are good perimeter defenders. And so I don't know how much James Harden is going to, uh, alter that. But you do understand that the Cleveland Cavalier philosophy in trading for James Harden is we need help to get out of a Game 7. So they went and got a notoriously bad Game 7 player, who was notoriously bad in the game yesterday, and yet not since the 1940s have you seen a road team go and do that to a 1 seed in their building.

James Harden's last 5 Game 7s: 3 of 9 against Toronto, 2 of 8 against Denver, 3 of 11 against Boston, 5 of 17 against Milwaukee, 4 of 15 against OKC.

Harden was available in one of the three matchups that Cleveland had this year against New York. New York won the first two games without Harden for Cleveland. Cleveland won the third game with Harden in the lineup.

But going back to last year, Cleveland actually dominated New York like since '23-'24. The Knicks are just 4-6 against Cleveland and last season they were winless against Cleveland. So the acquisition here, those first couple of games, what you're talking about is, is, is real. Like Mitchell Robinson was a huge X factor. But in their most recent matchup, Jared Allen had 19 and 10, and they won that game.

Yeah, but this New York team is completely different than what we've seen from them in the regular season. Like, they were just kind of plotting the regular season, like trying to figure everything out. Mike Brown's got everybody— offense, defensively, everybody's playing great basketball. Jalen Brunson's out of his mind. Cat has been incredible in the high post, being able to facilitate. Like, that's opened up their offense so much. And plus, Mitchell Robinson just grabs every board he sees. So it's going to be a really good front line.

I told you guys last week that the change that they made in the last game against Atlanta has made it so that Karl-Anthony Towns goes from 1 assist every 36 minutes to 8 assists every 36 minutes because they're playing, uh, through him.

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Dan Lebatard!

Did you get lost on the way to Home Depot today, Dan?

Like, what's going on with the flat tires?

Yes, Mina!

Stugatz! You look like you're about to ask me to like check the oil on my car.

Get 'em!

Or like come over and like look around and point things in my house that need to be fixed.

This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stugatz!

With the thing I was asking you though, Jeremy, I wasn't asking about Harden. I was asking if Jared Allen missed their playoff series when the Knicks rolled through Cleveland, because, uh, Jared Allen's a hugely important player for them, and I don't remember whether or not he was healthy or not. I do remember being confused by how stifled Mobley was by Mitchell Robinson.

Yeah, Dan's right to bring up the postseason series there, because while the regular season numbers don't really play to this narrative, it— the narrative exists because of what happened in that postseason series in 2023.

And I don't know if Jared Allen was actually healthy for that series. He might have played some, but I can't remember. I was wondering too, by the way, and this is off point, I don't know if you guys read the Steve Kerr article that Wright Thompson did, a deep dive on, uh, Steve Kerr and why it is that he's returning to, uh, the Warriors.

Money.

But one of the things that, uh, Steve Kerr did all of last season that no one noticed is that he was inserting Taylor Swift lyrics in every press conference that he was doing. And I don't think that if Jeremy had been covering the Warriors, that he would have been able to do that with it being able to—

never would have gotten away with it.

Never.

I can't believe the lack of journalistic integrity. Taylor Swift is essentially the new Springsteen for white sports reporters. It's unbelievable that this generation's white sports reporters did not figure this out around Steve Kerr. How could this possibly happen? And All Too Well, of all songs, Dan, the number one song in her catalog, I can't believe he got away with this.

It's ridiculous. Shake it off?

Are you telling me to shake it off?

He's saying that Taylor Swift is Bruce Springsteen for the modern-day sportswriter. That's in no way true.

Cannot be true.

Put it on the poll.

That's a disgrace.

You guys, other white guys have to have some other guy, right? They can't be that.

Well, as I mentioned, Colbert is having his final show on Thursday. It bums me out for a number of different reasons. He's got a hell of a guest list, obviously, all week, and Bruce Springsteen is going to perform at at some point. But what I have noticed over the last couple of years with Colbert, because he's over 60, is there are an awful lot of dad jokes in everything that he's doing. And so Springsteen— Springsteen is brought out by the old people to celebrate our oldness. And no one likes Springsteen more than old sportswriters. But this does not escape the attention of, of the reporters in Golden State if it's Springsteen. If, if he had been doing Springsteen lyrics, uh, there's no way that he's able to do this. But in the article, one of the things that I found interesting— I remember, um, we didn't talk at all last week about how prosecutors are indeed going to be able to get Tiger Woods's, uh, prescription history, but allegedly it's going to be something that is not going to be able to be in the public's eyesight. Public records requests aren't going to be able to summon it.

I don't know if that's going to be able to stay quiet. I would think attorney-client privilege would make it so that legally and ethically it should stay quietly, but I really don't know whether that's going to stay quiet once it gets into some hands. But I was telling you that Tiger Woods, uh, through all of those back surgeries, must be in a great deal of pain. And the thing I took away from that Kerr article is I had no idea how much physical pain he's in. He's in physical pain all the time, the way Phil Jackson was in physical pain all the time because his back is all screwed up and it causes an assortment of, uh, pain, including like pressure behind his eyes that causes migraines because he's always in physical pain. And he's had 3 back surgeries. Tiger Woods has had how many back surgeries? It's more than twice as many as that, and that's just on his back. So I assume that whatever prescription prescription problem that Tiger Woods is dealing with. And I've read that he is doing his, uh, his rehab in another country in order for it to have privacy.

He's not doing whatever is rehab here in terms of attending to his problem. But I would assume that the amount of pain that Tiger Woods is in is the reason that he's having trouble with prescription medication. I don't think it's an unreasonable leap to make, given that you're talking about that many back surgeries.

I think that's 7.

It's at least 7. Okay, thank you.

And Steve Kerr, remember, he missed an entire season, right? Like, Luke Walton came in and stepped in and was a coach for the Golden State Warriors. Like, where, where was Steve Kerr? He was out.

He couldn't coach. I think all the time we underestimate, uh, pain. Steve Kerr having this kind of pain and flying around all over the place, uh, he must really love, uh, Steph Curry in order to— you say it's money related, but Steve Kerr could have made $7 million broadcasting. And reportedly the deal that Steve Kerr was going to have meant that he didn't have to do any of the hot take stuff. Like, he didn't— ESPN wasn't going to make him do all the shows.

All he had— the fun stuff. I mean, I see Kenny Smith's on First Take all the time. I'll bet that's the only thing he wanted to do when they moved inside over to ESPN.

Wilbon has like 14 layers on, on getup.

I have noticed that he's been wearing 3 layers. Sure, zip up. Studios are cold. I have— that's true. Actually, it's a good point by Christopher. None colder than ours in order to keep me from sweating or making my sweat freeze. Anyway, there are a couple of people who have issues right now with a couple of ESPN people. We've got Shams, who has evidently pissed off the people at Prime because he announced the MVP yesterday. How are we feeling about SGA as a 2-time All-Star? He's going to— he's going to be an— I'm sorry, 2-time MVP. He's going to be one of the most decorated players before the age of 30, and I don't think people regard him that way. Do I have this wrong? Like, I know he's great, he's obviously great.

There are—

there's no such thing except maybe Steve Nash on 2-time MVP who's not like all-time, all-time great, top 10 in all the categories that you would look at, but he's gonna be an all-timer. He's already an all-timer. That— what, what SGA has on his resume already, Zazz, do you regard him the way that the trophies regard him?

Yes, yes, I think so, because not only is he putting up the numbers, but the team, you know, at least for regular season-wise, has been so far and away better than everyone else. It's not like he's putting up the numbers, it's like they're third in the conference. Like, the team is dominant. He doesn't even play fourth quarters. You look at the point differential, it's in the double digits each season. So yeah, I think so. I think I do.

What did you think of this though? Because Prime was upset that Shams broke the news before before the NBA wanted it announced. They're playful with it. You've got, uh, Dirk and Steve Nash and Blake Griffin and Udonis here, and, uh, Taylor Rooks as well. Let's hear the sound. For Dirk and Steve, you all both won MVPs, but I don't remember Shams spoiling it way back then. He was a baby then. What are we doing, man? Like, it's Sunday.

Shams, go to brunch, you nerd.

Come on, there are other things to They're mad. Yeah, they're definitely mad. Like, that feels like that was, that was them responding to— it feels like that was them responding to the management at Prime being angry where they were supposed to announce last night the MVP, but they not even— they got scooped. Like, I'm sure a lot of reporters knew what the end result was and Shams decided, hey, I'm going to let everybody know.

Can we assume that it might have been a deal point? And the broadcast rights, like, and you get the MVP announcement.

I think so. Yeah. Because it's like, why, why does Prime get it? I absolutely think that.

Well, where are you guys on this? Because Shams' job is not to do what Prime wants. I know Ariel Hawane pissed off Dana White and everybody in MMA when he announced the Brock Lesnar fight. They don't have any use for journalism. But Shams doesn't work for Prime, and Shams' allegiance has to be to the news. I want to get into another portion of this, though, because you have what is happening right now is a genuine war between the Blake Griffin attitude where he says, go to brunch, you nerd. And here's Jaylen Brown now going after Stephen A. Smith because you have a real disconnect right now between athletes and how they feel about the people covering them.

And his job, and it's Kendrick Perkins' job, and it is my job to talk to the media. It ain't your job to be a clown. It ain't. And this whole playing the game, this delusion that y'all got that y'all running with, y'all making it seem like I'm playing the game and I'm pulling the ladder down. Y'all ain't doing nothing but helping y'all motherfucking selves. And I'm tired of that shit. Y'all not being the bread. And that's why people calling that shit out. And that's why people— I've came to that conclusion. And I'll tell Stephen A, whoever else, when they see him, when they see me in person, I will let you know that it's Stephen A, Stephen B, Stephen C. Directly to your face. So you don't even know, like, you know, you got to be— no, you know what I mean? It is what it is.

That's not all he had to say about this, and they've been going at it pretty good. And this evolution bothers me, and it's bothered me since Stephen A. Smith basically challenged Kevin Durant, threatened Kevin Durant on television. There has been an evolution here journalistically into entertainment that is a contaminant, and it's not the way that we're supposed to cover these people, but Stephen A has become an institution that is as big and formidable and as famous as some of these athletes. So let's hear Jalen Brown some more. He's got some more for Stephen A.

Till this motherfucker retire, you know, because he's the face of clickbait media at the point. And maybe with his retirement, we could spark a movement to get the rest of these motherfuckers out of here, or to also have some type of— have some type of— forget journalistic integrity, actual integrity in order to hold themselves accountable to the bullshit takes they put out with no basis, no bias, no information, just narrative, just for the sake of just pushing a weak narrative, just purely out of that. I'll get— I'll, I'll give it up. I'll pass streaming. I'll sign some streamers or something, you know what I mean? It ain't a big deal. I never went— y'all never heard from me before this. Think about it. I ain't— I don't do no media, no podcast. I don't do post none of that. I barely post on social media. But the fact is that my obligation is to— as an athlete, I'm obligated to speak to the media. It's my job. Like, he thinks the media is his job, and so is it. It's my job too. It's in my contract. If I do not speak to the media, then I will be fined.

So when they use that comparison where it's my job— it's your job to play basketball— it's also my job to speak to the Okay, I can actually report something.

Can I report something here and now?

Is it a happen to know? Do you need the happen to know? Like, are you breaking news?

I am breaking news.

All right, let's hear it. I don't know, a breaking news sounder? He happens to know? Great Scott, he happens to know! He happens to know! Gather everyone!

Get the children!

He happens to know!

So wise. Yeah, I'm reporting no matter what Jaylen Brown says, no matter what Jaylen Brown offers, Stephen A. is not retiring.

Retiring. That's not a report. That's a report that you've diluted. That happens to know.

It's too much money.

No, that's not wise.

That's a report.

It's unwise and it's not news.

He's not retiring.

He's credible.

He's not doing it. That's the first thing. Now, okay, let me give a little context to what Jaylen Brown's doing. Jaylen Brown, like, the crux of what Jaylen Brown is angry with Stephen A. Smith right now about is when Jaylen Brown came out on the Twitch and he was, you know, saying really weird things about about, you know, this being his favorite season, and Stephen A thought he was giving him like advice, and he told him, stop talking. And Jaylen Brown apparently has taken that to like a level of, no, I'm not gonna just shut up and dribble, when Stephen A was just saying, stop talking like this, stop saying these things. And so now Jaylen Brown is like, I'll stop talking when you retire. So I don't know, it's not really the context of what Stephen A what's saying. But here's also the thing. This is a lot of deflection from Jaylen Brown is what's going on here.

Very curious offseason. Jaylen Brown is there telling you he's acting different this offseason. He's doing all these streams. Jeremy mentioned that he's kind of acting like a wide receiver in the NFL that's unhappy.

Like Jaylen Brown is— Jaylen Brown is saying things. No one asked him these questions. He went on Twitch and he is offering up this information, these thoughts, these opinions. Jalen Brown is saying things, he doesn't like the reaction that it's gotten, and now it's Stephen A. Smith's fault.

And the beautiful part about the wrestling of all this is I'm actually more interested to see what Stephen A. has to say now that the, the gauntlet has been laid down. Now what is Stephen A. gonna say? Because you don't want to make an enemy out of him.

Don Lebatard doesn't matter anywhere.

We could do it in Buffalo or Baltimore, either.

You say you could do it where?

Anywhere. Oh, whoa, no, that's crazy.

That's crazy. That's crazy. He said he could do it anyway.

That's crazy, Murda. Murda, tell him.

Stugatz.

I had no idea Mean had that in his locker.

That might be his best. I'm not kidding.

That's crazy, Killer.

It's two Americas, Dad. You don't get it.

This is the Don Levitar Show with the Stugatz.

So the evolution of this to me is really interesting, and I don't know how and where the people listening to this side, because I and we came up in a generation where ESPN decided to give the journalists, the nerds, voices that mattered, and that became the norm. But the way that we use those voices are now different, and Stephen A., in order to stay ahead of everybody else, has to evolve, uh, the way things are said in order to stay ahead of everyone else that he's competing with. And that is a contaminant that makes the divide even larger than it's ever been before. The storytellers are there, or have always been there, to chronicle to celebrate, to ask questions, and to critique. But there is no disputing that the critique has gotten rewarded for the more extreme that it becomes, the more cartoonish that it becomes. And I understand when Jaylen Brown is saying, never mind journalistic integrity, how about just integrity in general? It is clickbait stuff to criticize the athlete with such zeal that it's poisonous, and the, the athlete then feels the need to respond. Zazzle, it's not surprising to me that you say Jalen Brown is the one acting, uh, weird.

You have the bias of you want to be able to continue to not be called a nerd by these people. We spent the first hour talking about Messi acknowledging the song of the fan base, and what's happening right now is the journalist is being pushed to the fringes by the people at Prime who do not care about Shams' journalism, whatever it is. They do not care about what Shams is reporting and getting it first.

Dan, you mentioned Shams has a responsibility to the journalism, not, not to Prime. Can you counter that by saying he has a responsibility to his employer, who is a league partner, who, if Adam Silver wasn't a nothing, would probably be hearing from Adam Silver saying Hey, they don't crap on your deal, they don't take things from your deal, why you doing this?

No, uh, Shams' responsibility is to his employer, to his paycheck, and they are paying him the way they're paying very few people in their industry, anywhere in the industry, to do specifically that. That's— that is his job more than anything else. His job is not perspective, it's not context, it's not the light articles that he likes to write. His job is get the news first. That's what he's known for.

Adam Silver needs to pick up the call and complain.

I said nothing. That's not going to happen.

He needs to complain to ESPN because you're a league partner. We're not going to take shots at other league partners right here. This was a deal point and you just took some value from it.

Okay. But when I got in trouble with ESPN, when Manfred was calling ESPN, you take that call, you listen, and then you hang up and you keep doing your job the way that you did it before.

And then you got fired.

Yeah, that is—

well, I didn't— Mutual. It was mutual.

Mutual. No, but it's just a funny example to cite, like, yeah, well, we showed them. Manford won.

Well, well, I got fired. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Hold on. I'm going to make a— I agreed with that initially. I did not get fired by ESPN. If, if you think them giving us all of our intellectual property and all of our money is us getting fired, that's not fired. That's not the way most people get fired. I got fired.

Right. They got you out of there.

They got me out of there after I lost the protection that could fight silver because partners aren't always partners that agree on everything. Partners are business partners that sometimes understand that you can be at odds on certain things. And so if you think that on my list of offenses at ESPN, the Manfred thing doesn't even rank in the top 10 in terms of really—

you were that bad.

I should put— I should put together a list.

We should put the kids in cages.

Great.

Auto parts, battery.

Yeah, I don't—

be curious to see what Dan thinks the top 10 is.

The Billboard.

Come up, come up with your own top 10 and I'm going to come up with my top 10 to find out. Let's see. Let's see who gets closer to the truth. We'll do it before the end of the show. Actually, we should do it as a top 5. You come up with your top 5 and I'll come up with my top 5. And, and absolutely, Manfred. Manfred, getting Dana White mad at me was a lot worse than getting Manfred mad at me. And that's not the reason that we were let go from ESPN either.

I think my, my biggest problem with what guys like Jaylen Brown are saying and complaining about is so many of these guys, they don't know what journalism is, and they definitely don't know what the media's responsibility is. And in this case, like, Jaylen Brown keeps talking about this, you know, in referring to Stephen A. Smith, that's not journalism, that's not journalism. Stephen A. Smith stopped journalism a long time ago. First Take is not journalism.

He would not agree with that. He would not agree with that. He identifies first and foremost as a a journalist.

Well, he is a journalist, but First Take is not journalism, okay? So Jalen Brown thinks that what he sees on television is Jalen Brown— is Stephen A. Smith doing journalism. No, it isn't. And then he lumps all of that together, and we need to change, we need to get back to this journalism. That'd be like— it'd be like if I was watching Jalen Brown play a game of basketball and I then say, wow, NBA players shouldn't be allowed to dribble with their left hand because that's terrible. Like, no, there are other really good players who can dribble with their left hand. There are really good journalists out there and really good journalism out there that is for you to absorb.

The problem with that, though, is that Stephen A says he's a journalist, right? Like, because if he's saying— I'm—

Jaylen Brown doesn't have a good understanding then of what journalism is.

He doesn't have to. It's not his job. The way that we present this stuff on television and the way that we talk about all of it, Not one person in this room outside of Dan would say that they're a journalist. Like, Stephen A. is a former— but like, you're doing—

what am I doing?

You're not a journalist. You're not a journalist. And to be able to run with the hot takes that we do, it's a different thing than what journalism is. And the problem generally with the masses, with quote unquote fake news media and all of these things, is we've spent so much time distorting what's a journalist and what's a media personality that people like Jaylen Brown, who's an intelligent guy, can't articulate the difference.

I disagree with you guys on a couple of fronts. First of all, I do think Jaylen Brown does understand what journalism is, and I do understand how he would view what Stephen A. Smith is doing and say that's not journalism, because, right, I would say much of what Stephen A. is now doing is not journalism, even though some of what he does is still journalism. But let's go back a step and let me ask you this question. Just because ESPN made it the norm— and the way that ESPN made it the norm is because they decided they wanted the credibility of newspapers in their facility. That's what they wanted. Why do sports have to have that? Because Dana White is saying, I don't want that in my sport. Get it out of my sport. I don't want it in here. Why does sports have to have that? I understand why we're arguing on its behalf. It's selfish and totally self-serving for us to argue that, that we should have a voice. But I totally understand why the player is saying, why do I need that here? What does that have to do with— like, come in here, report, and be some version of fair.

Now, we will have different disagreements about what's too personal, what's over the line. We cannot argue argue that what First Take is presently doing is journalism just because a journalist is sitting there, any more than I can argue that what we do here daily is journalism just because I'm sitting here.

Oh, they're gonna say because I'm sitting here.

Been a long time since I did journalism, and I understand why these athletes would look at— hey, Shams, nerd, get out of here, don't need the news 10 hours early. Look, man, I did something yesterday. I don't know if you guys have gotten used to this. I'm checking in with the Marlins-Rays game on Peacock at noon. I'm We're kicking in with Game 7 on Prime. And please don't lose sight of the fact that it is hard to do what Prime is presently doing, where Game 7 goes off without a hitch and it's normal. Like, they, they just got into this business, they're hosting a Game 7 and they're doing it exceptionally well. There aren't glitches, there's nothing there. Like, they're— and they don't need to do journalism. Where the people objecting to Shams there, where were the journalists on that screenshot when you saw Udonis, Steve Blake Griffin, uh, Dirk and Taylor Rooks. Where was the journalism? Taylor's the journalism. But that's how Taylor is, the way that athletes would like the media to behave. Come in here, ask me questions, get along, don't say anything inflammatory, don't be too critical, celebrate us. Why does Prime have to do journalism?

Where is the journalism on Prime? Where is it? I'm, I'm telling you in the documentary sphere that all of these big corporations are seeing less and less importance in doing things that are going to bother the masses because they're uncomfortable truths. They'd rather do antiseptic stuff than do the stuff that's a little dangerous because it's the truth. I happen to want the undistilled truth. I want, I want it pure. But that's not what everybody wants, and I come from a different time.

But Dan, Prime doesn't do journalism. They do entertainment, which is why they have the ex-athletes, which is why they have Taylor Rooks, which is why they have those kind of personalities surrounding the game. You want journalism? Go somewhere else. Like, we're not going to break the hardcore X's and O's stories.

This is what we've talked about forever with ESPN, is they like laundered the reputation of journalists and then turned them all into entertainers. And so when you're watching television, and again, we've decided to merge what those two things are, there's still great journalism being done in, in written form in all sorts of different places. Hell, for that matter, what Pablo did to win a Pulitzer is so rare in audio reporting in the way that he's done it around sports. And there's a reason it's been such a sensation, because we don't see it that much where you can actually watch it or listen to it in the way that we are now. But we need to understand that television is about entertainment. CNN did the same thing, Dan. Like, they stopped doing journalism on air because they wanted to entertain and make money.

I'd like that time to live forever. It's dead.

Dead.

Like, I'm— it's, it's not dying, it's dead. These streamers have no interest. None of them, none of them have any interest in doing journalism. And that's why I'm telling you, this war, the journalists have already lost it.