Transcript of Hour 1: The Victory Over Mel Kiper (feat. Greg Cote)

This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stugatz Podcast.

This episode of the Dan Lebatard Show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Are we still locked into the draft tonight? Last night was only first round. You know, you got Dolphins have one pick tonight in the second round. They got two picks tonight in the third round. Like, Dave, they're gonna mess it up. Dave, you're locked in, right? Tonight, round 2, 3, you're in?

Well, sure, I'm, I'm obviously gonna be watching. It is again, I I don't want to beat the dead horse or dead dolphin, but the idea again that they're, they're kind of sort of starting from square one, that you don't value the quantity of picks is, is strange to deal away third round picks. I mean, those, those are viable picks that could turn into human beings that are potentially good at football.

They can definitely turn into human beings. Yes.

Right. Well, I mean, they almost every single time that there's a draft pick made, it's a high chance. But speaking of that, though, see, what will not continue into the second round is the hugging of the guy who just got drafted, the one who's physically there. They embrace, as you know, because who is the second guy who takes over for Goodell? There's that— like, Goodell only makes the main event. He doesn't stick around to glad-hand with second round or shame the devil. My question is, though, for you, Zazz, if you come out, it's a fraught kind of situation to do what I'm going to say here. Would you, though, hug Roger Goodell if you came out onto the stage? I—

yeah, I think I would. Like, that— it seems to be a rite of passage for these guys where they want to get to the point. Like, you're working so hard in high school, you work hard in college. I want, I want to be able to hug Roger Goodell on the stage.

Is that a thing?

I think so.

It's interesting because for me, it feels plainly like Roger Goodell is trying to ingratiate himself at the player level. Clearly he is against them, right? He's against the players union. He's for the owners. But he's— this is his little make good and it makes him look good. It makes him look down to earth. Why do I got to play ball with you, Goodell?

I don't know.

I don't owe you nothing, except he is kind of sort of, even though you're on opposite ends of the labor stuff, he is kind of sort of your boss. So you do have to hug him or else now you're a ne'er-do-well right out of it, right out of the gate. Refused to hug, but you would also— the football community would also enjoy it too if you stiff-armed Roger Goodell. I'm not here to play grab-ass. I'm here to play ball, right?

Like if afterward they asked him, why didn't you hug the commissioner? He says, I'm not here to play grab ass.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, right. I mean, wouldn't that be— that would be a statement by itself to say that.

No, but they come across very excited, though, to hug him. It's not like the commissioner, come here, give me a hug. Like they're excited.

But then they sway back and forth slowly, like an old couple celebrating their golden anniversary, like kind of thing.

It's uncomfortable for me to look at.

Ty Simpson.

Ty Simpson to the Rams at number 13 was a pretty polarizing pick. I, I think it's a great spot for Ty Simpson. All right, you get to be the backup with no prep. Normally a quarterback gets selected number 13 overall, you're gonna say, hey, by what game this season is he gonna be the starter? That's not the case with Ty Simpson. He's gonna get to chill and learn and be behind an MVP and a Super Bowl champion, Matt Stafford. And the best part is when it's eventually your turn, Sean McVay— like, Sean McVay is going to be your head coach. And whatever you think about Ty Sims, like, all right, but that guy Sean McVay, you know, kind of similar with Sean Payton where he took Bo Nix, or it's like, all right, we didn't think Bo Nix was going to go this early, but Sean Payton kind of knows what he's doing with quarterbacks. And I think you probably have to feel the same with Sean McVay. And so last night at the Rams availability after they made the pick. You got the general manager Les Snead, you got the head coach Sean McVay.

They're up there answering questions about the pick, which caught a lot of people by surprise. Number one, he's going 13, which is a lot earlier than a lot of people thought. And number two, you know, there's a school of thought where, all right, hey, it's, it's good to take a quarterback when you want one as opposed to when you need one. And this way, you know, they have a succession plan for Matthew Stafford. But while Les Snead, the general manager of the Rams, is talking here and is excited about the pick, just keep an eye here on Sean McVay, or listen to the lack of excitement from the head coach.

I think that, I think that at the end of the day, probably processing football, someone who can execute a passing offense, has mobility So that's probably the macro. There's a lot more variables that go into it, but that's the macro, I would say.

Wes, what about Todd's character made him exceptional?

You know what, I think right now he's still becoming, but I would say the journey that he's had. I think the thing you appreciate is persevering, right, through the ebbs and flows of going to Alabama, earning the job, getting his first, you know, let's call it start, the opening game against Florida State, and they lose that game. And if you— I grew up in Alabama, uh, the sky was falling in the state of Alabama.

He's just sitting there, Sean McVay. He doesn't answer anything. He does not look very excited. When you're normally drafting a quarterback, who you would assume the head coach, a quarterback, you know, guy in Sean McVay would be thrilled and on board if you're selecting a quarterback. And he looks like he was— I mean, Dave, am I, am I reading this wrong here? Because he did not come off very excited. Ty Simpson afterwards said he did not even meet Sean McVay. He has never met him. And by the way, Albert Breer, NFL reporter, he tweeted out this last night, Dave: Rams general manager Les Snead and UT Martin coach Jason Simpson have a very strong relationship, to the point where Snead helped advise the family when Jason's son Ty was making a decision on whether or not to declare for the draft. Now Ty Simpson is a Ram.

Sean McVay, the rumors crop up every couple few years, um, even before the Super Bowl, or maybe it was right around when they, when they won that Lombardi, um that Sean McVay is going to walk away from head coaching at some point sooner rather than later, whether or not— would maybe go with Matthew Stafford. Whether or not that's true, Stafford is definitely inevitably going to go away sooner rather than later. And so I could see Sean McVay feeling like— I, I guess the— I get the cross purposes, and I will advocate always, you should— in the QB league, you should take a quarterback almost every year. I mean, that's one of the savvier things Belichick did even at the height of the Patriots dynasty. They just kept taking swings at QB and it ultimately kind of served them well. So I get it, but like, in 2026, the Rams are, are one of the— on the short list of favorites to make a Super Bowl run here. Why not try to help out there in the short term instead of getting the— getting this guy into the pipeline? I kind of get it, but if Sean McVay's not excited about it, that's going to— if that's going to injure the, uh, the progress— the progress of this kid, right?

I feel like this is all semantics. The edible could have just kicked in on my boy. He could have took a pre-workout drink or something. He just looking like that. I feel like, bro, if Sean McVay did not want this man on his team, he would not be the draft pick. Sean McVay has a resume that is excellent.

He is—

he has full control over that locker room. So I think we're reading too much into facial expressions.

Maybe, maybe, Chris.

But you agree though, everybody agrees though, that if you are in win-now mode, you should take a swing at pick 13 with, with somebody who—

I think if you're in win-now mode, it's okay to punt on what might be best for the future and do whatever it takes to win Super Bowls right now. And that is seemingly not what the Rams did last night.

Well, especially as it's interesting given the way the Rams have operated basically for the last like half decade or more. I mean, remember, they just gave— they couldn't care less about draft picks and now they're playing for the future. It's a funny right turn from the same brain trust that was like, we don't need draft picks. We're just all about right now.

Chris, did you see what happened last night? So Makai Lemon, another interesting story from last night. Makai Lemon, who was, who was the wide receiver at USC, who had kind of a weird combine, you know, he just, his, uh, The way he was answering questions, uh, he said dead homies a couple times up there.

You can't do that, bro.

Was that last night he said that?

Nah, at the Combine. You can't say that at this point. The folks trying to be honest, you like, you like dead homies? Like, I'm telling the truth.

He was a little too honest at the Combine. He had a strange Combine, and you don't know what's true. Like, I remember one report that came out with him where like he totally bombed the interview, was almost like he must have done it on purpose, he was so bad, you know. And so Makai Lemon gets selected number 20 overall by Philadelphia, who traded up to take him. It was a really cool moment. He put on the hat, he was crying. I like that kind of stuff. But right before the Eagles took him, you know, they, they call the players and they say, hey, we're about to select you, how would you like to be a Philadelphia Eagle? Right before the Eagles called him, the Steelers called him. The Steelers had pick number 21 The Steelers called him before the Eagles jumped up to 20, and they apparently were certain number 20 is not going to select him. So let's call him and let's ask him how he'd like to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. Dave, did you see this? So the Steelers called him, told him they're going to select him, then the Eagles jumped up to 20 and they did select him.

What's semi-funny— I don't want to say funny haha because it's kind of sad that the Steelers wanted Lemon and they wound up with, uh, Ian Atchour, um, The, uh, that it sort of completes a funny circle. The Dallas Cowboys had Ryan Shazier on the line in 2014, and the Steelers swooped in and picked him. So this, uh, this finishes off the revenge factor. But, um, yeah, uh, it feels like what it amounts to is the Steelers got caught with their pants down. They, they didn't know what was happening, and they— I wouldn't say panicked, but Um, I, I am surprised that they didn't take a wide receiver. I mean, obviously if they don't like the guys, not just interchangeable human beings like, well, the one receiver's gone, so take another receiver. But there were some decent options at pass catcher where they continue to have, um, continue to have issues, and instead just load it up again. Now they have 3 tackles on the team, 4 tackles conceivably. How many tackles do we need?

The Miami Hurricanes had 3 first-round picks last night. Number 10, number 15, number 22. The first of those 3, number 10, was Francis Mawinoa to the New York Giants. Bain went to the Bucs. Akeem Mesidor went to the Chargers at 22. Did I leave out any other fun stories from the first round last night? I feel like we got them.

Yeah, I think, I think what you said is the thing that we kind of glossed over in the production around it, obviously we were doing the live stream and everything else. But it does feel to me from a distance like it's so slick now, so produced. We're getting away from the core. I don't want to sound like an old saccharine weirdo, but that is— when a team wins a championship, it's a great singular moment, the completion of all that work and everything else in that glorious moment. But I think maybe the best moment in sports, just the, the instantaneous— these guys all know they're about to get drafted and become multi-millionaires and everything else, and yet It's— it still is such a magical moment to witness the entire family, what it means to all of them and to generations upcoming and all the rest of it. And I feel like that's kind of— now we've lost that in favor of Roger Goodell hugging guys and cutaways to the war room of guys dressed business casually, high five.

Hey, it's Mike Ryan, and I want to talk to you about the random midweek hang that you have with your friends. Maybe it's an NBA game. You get a text, hey, come over, you want to watch the game? And Maybe you're like, ah, I don't know, I kind of just wanted to stay home. And then you think about it after your buddy hits you up and you know just the thing that'll make that regular hang, that regular midweek hang around the basketball game into a special time, into a Miller time. That's right, this happened to me just last week. I grabbed a 6-pack of Miller Lite, said I was on my way, and next thing you know, we're arguing about rotations like we're on the coaching staff, yelling about a missed call, and the game's coming down to the final possession. It was one of those nights that you look around, you take a sip, and you think, yeah, this was the right call, and my friendship's stronger for it. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste, 96 calories. Go to MillerLite.com/Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

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Going for 2 when you're up by 5, switching the zone when man isn't working, oh, and building your new stadium in the state your team actually plays in. In sports, some things just make sense. You know what else makes sense? Drinking Jägermeister shots ice cold. Drinking it any other way would be like punting on first down or letting your worst hitter bat first. Or like going for 2 when you're down 3 with a second to go. It wouldn't make any sense. So don't let the team down when it comes to Jägermeister. Drink it cold or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister.

Damn, that's cold.

Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume, imported by Mast Jägermeister US, White Plains, New York.

Dan Lebatard.

All right, we got to go back out there. That was big.

Wake him up.

Uh-oh, he doesn't want— he doesn't want to be bothered anymore.

Now it's getting tense because he didn't need that.

As a result, he needs something You can see him mother-effing out.

Can we bother—

are we bothering you right now?

Turn on your microphone, Greg.

My microphone's on.

Stugatz.

Paint the scene.

The paint the scene is I gotta go to work. Good night.

This is the Don Levitar Show with the Stugatz. Dave, I'm gonna have you hang on for a second here, all right, because apparently there is there are congratulations in order here. You know, a huge theme of our Draft Watch last night presented by Bucked Up was Greg Cody versus Mel Kiper Jr. Zigactos and exactos, and it's a major competition. All right. And here's Greg Cody. Really, really excellent job with the vertical there. Here is Greg Cody, who wants to join us. And apparently there are congratulations in order, Greg.

Yes, there are. Thank you. I ended up beating Mel 5 to 4. I made a comeback. I think he was ahead of me 3 to 1 at one point. And the sweetest note of the night for me was that my 5th and final and winning zigacto was on Chris Johnson going to the Dolphins. So the fact that I won on a late-round Dolphins bullseye is extra sweet to me.

And you're saying it's not a super zigacto because you had them taking him at 30. Since they moved up to 27, it becomes just a zigacto instead of a super zigacto.

Yes. Yeah. Both of us had 4 super zigactos. I had an additional zigacto.

What about exactos?

What's that?

He doesn't know what— Jeremy, let me answer this for him. He doesn't know what an exacto is.

No, because he— I have heard Greg for years now. I feel like we were too hard on him throughout this year saying he doesn't have super zigactos. He has— but he does. He has exactos, zigactos, and super zigactos. And Greg, I'm just looking for a quick explanation on what those three things are because I've heard super zigacto from you for a while now.

Yeah. Okay. First of all, zigacto and exacto are synonyms.

They mean interchangeable.

Okay, they're interchangeable. Okay, zigacto. Let's say, let's call them zigactos. A super zigacto is the ultimate bullseye, which is the right player to the right team in the right draft order. For example, Fernando Mendoza going number 1 to the Raiders was the obvious super zigacto that began the draft.

I am getting dizzy now.

I like to compliment my boy.

Your home setup is fantastic.

Beautiful.

Never been better.

How can you tell? Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh, in a regular zigacto is Chris Johnson going to the Dolphins no matter what spot in the draft, because there are— and the reason that the regular zigacto is a thing is that there are so many trades that factor in. There were a lot of trades last night, which is why, uh, Kiper and I only had a 5-4 score, whereas a year earlier we had an 11-9 score. Because last year's draft was much easier for a number of reasons. So I won on a regular zigzag, though, but which diminishes it an iota.

Do you think Kiper is aware of this competition, Greg?

He better be.

No, I would think, I would think not. And you know what, though? The reason I compare myself to Kiper every year, I love the alliteration of Cody versus Kiper, but that's peripheral. Mel is the king of the mock draft. When you think of mock drafting, you think of Mel Kiper Jr. So that's why I compare myself to him. The other reason I do it is to kind of blow holes through the notion that there is real expertise out there. You know, Mel is guessing like everybody else. Now, he's more informed than most people, and he may be watching film and talking to scouts and doing everything he does. But yet, if you take my path which is I, I get it down to a common sense nexus of what are the team's, uh, biggest needs, what are the best available players in that range.

I'm getting nauseous.

I am.

I feel like I'm on a boat.

If you start there and you don't—

stop moving!

You'd be so— what do you mean? What do you mean?

Stay still!

I love this.

What are you talking about?

Move more.

Oh, I'm gonna puke.

Okay. All right, I'm gonna stay still. I'm sorry.

I do want to take a pause here, and let's just— this is worth a toast. Greg Cody, okay, beating Mel Kiper. Let's just all— let's all raise a glass. Maybe get yourself some Cuervo. Let's all keep it Cuervo. Here's to Greg Cody beating Mel Kiper last night.

Thank you.

Good job.

A true gentleman.

Sent it by Cuervo, our friends at Cuervo. Thank you. Now, Greg, there was some confusion late in the draft watch last night where you were tied at 3 at one point and you thought that you had a lead, right? Like, did we figure out what happened there?

Yes, we did. I, I went back and corrected it, and I welcome anybody to vet the results. No one's going to do that. I'm claiming a 5-4. Well, you might, but no, I corrected all the results. I had not given involving a Giants and Cowboys trade. I mistook giving Kiper credit for the Maui Noa pick to the Giants. So once he got credit for that, it was adjusted to 3-3 and then it became 4-3 and then it became 5-4 because we both got Ja'Darian Price going in the last pick. All right.

All right. That's a great job out of you then, Greg. Your column today. In the Herald, did you crush the Dolphins for Caden Proctor?

Yeah, but I was, I was commenting on every pick. I, I did call it a weird, surprising pick. Uh, I, you know, I don't feel as strongly about condemning a pick unequivocally right away because I'm going to give the, um, the, the Dolphins' new regime a little bit of slack on that. Uh, Caden Proctor, look, I had— I forget where Mel had him going. I had him going 17 in my draft, so I had him as a mid-round, first-round pick. And so I don't think he's a bad player at all. He's just a guy who's got a little bit of a weight problem. He's— you think of him as being the most gigantic tackle, but yet they're talking about him at guard. I mean, there are a few question marks around Caden Proctor, but, you know, unlike some others, I'm willing to give this a shot. They have to nail the rest of the draft. Like, they have to come out of this draft with 12, 13 picks and 9 of them are going to make the roster and 5 of them are going to have a big impact the first year. Like, they really need to nail this pick because they have so many needs.

Where's Jumpin' Charlie at?

Jumpin' Charlie's laid back right now. He's probably asking to go back in the backyard and pee. But look, thank you guys for congratulating me. Flowers are being delivered to my house. I've had a dozen telegrams for congratulatory telegrams from all over the world. It's been fantastic. So I really appreciate it. The Mock King.

All right, good job. Give it up for Greg. He wins again this year.

Very good.

Takes down Mel Kiper.

Good job.

Excellent job. There's Greg. All right. One of the highlights—

That whole—

One of the highlights—

That conversation got sideways. That's what I just wanted to say, because it was so hilarious. I had to get that in.

So everyone was doing— you know, everyone was slanting themselves, you know, so that they could be horizontal, just like Greg. You notice I can't do that.

You didn't partake.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be anti, you know, I wasn't trying to be anti-fun. It would trigger my vertigo if I did that. Like, I can't move my head sideways like that.

Oh, wow.

A puke.

Is vertigo a funny, like, ailment?

No.

Like, I feel like, you know, like gout. There are things that, like, we hear.

Yeah, I've had that before too. I've had gout before.

You only get funny issues.

And it's not one of those deals. No, vertigo is not funny at all. It's miserable. But I'm not going to say— I've told you guys this before. I'm not going to say that I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I would definitely wish it on my worst enemy. They're my worst enemy. I would want my worst enemy to have vertigo. I want my enemy—

I would win, you know, I'd vote for incontinence.

Wow.

I mean, because I mean, I would— the number of episodes for that, for, for my enemy going forward would be delicious to just hear the stories. I wouldn't even have to be like, yeah, yeah. You hear about Gary? Yep, peed himself again. Yep. What is my dad doing at the draft? Peed himself.

Greg, you know, we said goodbye, you know.

Let's stay here. Greg, leave the Zoom.

How do I leave the Zoom? You, you send me a Zoom link.

You know, like, just, you, you should have just like throws his phone.

How do I hang up?

You run the phone underwater, it gets you out of Zoom.

All right, hang on.

Just say leave Zoom 3 times like Dorothy.

Hang on, he's gonna try to leave in the mirror.

Dude, nice modern reference.

Go ahead, Dad, say it 3 times. It's like an automated thing, you'll leave if you say leave Zoom 3 times.

No, there's nothing, there's nothing I'm looking at right now that tells me how to sign out. Sign me out.

Is there an X anywhere? When you tap on the screen, tap on the screen, man.

Somebody sign my boy out.

Okay, now it says leave.

There we go.

So many possibilities pop up when you just tap the screen.

He's still there.

All right, now hang on, I lost—

he muted himself.

There we go.

All right, he did it, he found it.

Guy's my hero.

Don Lebatard.

What do we got here? I got a Magnum condom. Um, we won't get that out.

That's shocking. Stugatz.

Here's a picture of Christopher when he was like 3 years old, right next to the condom. Yeah, little reminder.

Yeah, never forget. This is the Don Lebatard Show with the Stugatz.

I don't know if y'all noticed, I'm, I'm so sorry to shoehorn this in, but Rudy Gobert was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar last last night, and we're not talking about it just yet.

Needed to be said.

Well, all right, so let's, let's pivot to NBA here then, because the NBA—

use that pivot foot—

NBA was really fun last night. And I, I was watching, I watched the entire Knicks-Hawks game last night. You know, we're sitting here, we're doing the, the Draft Watch show, and I had the Knicks on, on my tablet. It's the same tablet I use at night when I'm lying in bed watching my shows. And the great opportunity last night for anyone who has not heard me, because I've done some play-by-play in the NBA Dan gave me a chance. I was on the call for, uh, when the Knicks took the lead. All right, now that could be a situation, uh, a legal issue for us because, you know, play-by-play, it's not really a thing you're supposed to do if you know the rights. But nonetheless, way to bring it back up. Well, we were on delay. I think it's okay if you're on delay, so it wasn't technically live. Like, if you're watching streaming, we're at least like— we could be like 30 seconds behind, so I think we're good. I think we're in the clear.

I don't think we are.

I think we're in the clear. So Last night, the, the Knicks go down 2 games to 1 to Atlanta. They come all the way back. They were up by 8— they were down by 18, excuse me, down by 18 early in the fourth quarter. They come all the way back, and Brunson with a 3-point play with just over a minute to go puts them up 1— they, excuse me, puts them up by 3. They don't score again. They don't score again. CJ McCollum hits, uh, a shot to give them the lead with about 16 seconds left, they go up by 1, and the final possession of the game for New York, Brunson throws it away. Kaminga was incredible on both ends of the floor, especially that final possession, and the clock runs out. Atlanta takes a 2 games to 1 series lead. For a Knicks team whose, like, the floor has to be NBA Finals. When you fire Tom Thibodeau last year, That means you— the team should have been in the finals. And so they hire Mike Brown, and now they are a road loss away from going down 3 games to 1. I'm into that series.

Hell yeah, bro. Like, from top to bottom, first of all, CJ McCollum in Atlanta right now, he is good everywhere. He is like Future, he is like T.I. Wherever you see him, hey, you good. Ain't nobody gonna mess with you or put a finger on you, bro. And just the, the crowd in Atlanta giving that much energy.

Hawks crowds are so much better than they were like even 10, 15 years ago. Really used to be an awful home court advantage. They're all— that, that's a, that's a really good building these days.

Absolutely. And but for the Knicks, you can't have Cat— like, this is why we have a problem with Cat. 2 shots in the 4th quarter. In that fourth quarter, we had a better showing from Deuce McBride than your all-star. It just ain't making sense. I don't think Mike Brown is getting the best out of these boys. I think the writing on the wall for my boy. The Blazers might hire him for, what, $1 million next year? Because I think he's out of here.

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time that Mike Brown is fired after one year. Lakers fired him after one year.

I mean, Lakers fired him after two games.

It would not be the first time that he would be fired after one year. I've told you how I feel about Mike Brown. I don't think he's a good coach. I don't think Mike Brown's the guy who's going to take you to that next level. I don't want to hire a guy who's been fired 4 times as the guy who's going to fix everything. Somebody asked something, Trista. Guys like Jalen Brunson, Karl-Anthony Towns, uh, just the team as a whole. Like, did those guys have a better year this year or last year?

Last year.

Last year.

Yeah, last year. I think at this point that was one of the more disappointing performances in the playoffs from Jalen Brunson down the stretch. I don't care that you were down 18 and you you figured out a way to come back. At the end of the game, what did Jalen Brunson do? You had a shot clock violation, airball, and then you had a turnover. You cannot— and he's over-dribbling the ball, he's not finding the open man. Him, Karl-Anthony Towns, Mikal Bridges— excuse me, how many picks do we give up for Mikal Bridges?

Had like— I know, Juju, you're getting on Karl-Anthony Towns. All the focus gonna be on Mikal Bridges. He, he had zero Points.

5 first-round picks.

Zero points. Like, like if they lose this series, this is the kind of performance where they will trade Mikal Bridges in the offseason.

Trade him?

How?

Like for what? He's a piece of this thing. And they put themselves in such a strange position because we talk here locally, right, all the time about like, oh, the Heat haven't cashed in on whatever draft capital. You don't have this. The Knicks made the decision to trade 5 first-round picks for Mikael Bridges unprotected while Giannis is sitting here going, I want to be a New York Knick, and they have nothing to offer unless they're willing to blow the entire team up and involve some other teams in there that would be willing to take KAT and Bridges and maybe OG and just blow the entire thing up, which is not where you ever anticipated this would be, even last season. And the one thing that I thought we knew the Knicks were good at was closing out games late. It's the only thing that these last few years—

you could blame, you, you could talk about inability to show up violation and Brunson throwing the ball away— where they're finally—

Jalen Brunson's one of the best closers in the league. That's been their biggest strength is having a guy that can go get a bucket late and all of these other options to help make stops. And to help make that happen without turning the ball over. And now last night, they just throw up all over themselves against Atlanta and CJ McCollum, who's having the time of his life in Atlanta, coming through. How about Jonathan Kuminga, by the way? A guy who was riding the bench. And Juju, you should get credit here because from the day they made that trade, you were riding for that trade because look at this guy and all of his potential. He's been unbelievable in the open court. How about Gabe Vincent coming off the bench and giving you some good minutes as a backup point guard? It wasn't just addition by subtraction in Trae Young. They added real pieces to make this team significantly better, and they're fun to watch while the Knicks are collapsing.

I'm sure Mike Brown, head coach of the Knicks, he made everyone feel better postgame, right? Like probably some advice, some words of wisdom. He'll fire you up for, for what's a must-win Game 4 for the Knicks. Here's Mike Brown after the game.

The reality of it is, and I told them this, it's a 7-game series for a reason. You know, stuff's gonna happen. Um, there are plenty of teams have been down 1-2, you know. Should I even think Oklahoma City was down 1-2 last year and they end up winning, winning it? So I'm not saying we're gonna win it or anything like that.

Oh yeah, you know, I'm not saying we're gonna get crazy. Let's say we're gonna win.

You know it's bad when he stopped talking to the mic, bro. Come on, bro, say it with your chest. And I think Jalen Brunson, what the Hawks are doing, they equalizing him out. Yes, you can give us some points over there on the offensive end, but you are a traffic cone on this side, and whoever you're guarding, he is going at you no matter who it is, from, from Kaminga, from, uh, CJ McCollum. So I think they got a big problem, and OG saved them from getting embarrassed last night with two clutch— shouldn't have went in— tray balls. So it was even worse than that, you feel me?

And former Blazer CJ McCollum How bad is it? Because CJ used to be considered a cone. He used to be the defensive liability. The reason that they had to break up Dame Lillard and CJ is because you couldn't have both those guys in the backcourt. Nobody was picking on CJ. They're picking on Brunson. So I think that's a credit to what CJ has done, become much more of a serviceable defender. But also, like, I don't think truly you can have Karl-Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson on the floor at the same time. Defensively in a playoff game.

Game 4 is, uh, and it's Saturday at 6 PM Eastern. Game 4 is a blueprint game most likely for the Knicks. You know, they—

you guys, by the way, shout out to Amin Elhassan's team, the Knickerbockers. He said that would be the team that would go to the Finals. I'm gonna stick with my Celtics prediction there. Um, are you guys— I'm curious, are you now— because I assume outside of Roy, uh, no one in that room has watched, uh, 2 seconds of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Why are we doing— why are you doing— why are you jumping on this train as well? Like, I've never—

because I assume that's the case. I'm asking you. I didn't say it.

Why would you ask?

I asked you a question about it.

Why would you assume that I'm not all over the Stanley Cup playoffs? I love it.

He's not in it.

My team's not in the NBA playoffs either. You don't assume I'm not watching the NBA.

Well, that's my question. Are you hate-watching the Knickerbockers series? Is that why you're especially interested in it? Because we hear about Rudy Gobert but the conversation very quickly turned to the knickerbockers.

No, I'm watching all of them. I'm watching all the NBA playoff games I possibly can. Sometimes you got to make a choice, like last night, Knicks and Hawks was going on at the same time as Raptors-Cavs. Raptors blew them out in the fourth quarter. I, I don't care so much about Raptors-Cavaliers, so I'm watching Knicks and Hawks. I'm trying to watch as much as I possibly can, and that includes a Stanley Cup play. I'm gonna tell you something, Dave, in the Zazzle Mansion family room the first few nights, we got the hockey on the big TV and we got the NBA on the small TV. I find the NBA a lot easier to follow on the small TV as opposed to saying the hockey on the small TV. You can't follow the puck if you're watching on the small TV. You have no idea where the puck is. So you could see the basketball, you could see the net move. It's— you could tell when a shot went in on the small TV, you know what I'm saying, Dave? So the hockey is mandatory on the big TV in the Zazzle Mansion family room.

Yes, sir. And let's go Buffalo! Let's go Buffalo! Up 2-1, you did! Come on now, right now!

That's the bet. The NHL has a bad habit of the sports gods, uh, turning their nose up at the sport. There are so many, uh, almost things that happened that really would have made that— that would have elevated the sport. The Buffalo Sabers making a run this year would do that, I think, for, for the sport. I— that this is a great story. They've been out of the playoffs for for 14 years. That Game 1 was magical. It's everything that's fun about spectator sports. If you happen to catch not even the game, the last 8 minutes of it. But all that being said, I'm about 60 minutes away from, from hockey turning into a fringy sport for losers that nobody watches because I'm displeased.

What has you most angry about your Penguins being down 3 games to none?

You know, the, the, the, the, the roadway is running out for Kid Crosby and his two pals, Kris Letang and Geno Malkin. You know, I don't think Crosby's going anywhere, but that arguably the two worst players on the ice for the Penguins this series have been those two guys, two would-be Hall of Famers. I think one at least is guaranteed to go into the Hall of Fame, and they've been the liabilities for the Penguins so far. But the worst thing about it is it's the Philadelphia Flyers. The most dreadful, most loathsome organization in sport is about to sweep my beloved Pittsburgh Penguins, and it hurts. But anyway, back to Rudy Gobert.

Uh, I got something on Rudy Gobert for you in a moment here, but the Raptors, they got back in that series last night. The Hawks took a 2-1 series lead, and the Wolves, like Dave mentioned there, the Wolves blew out the Nuggets from start to finish. I mean, the Nuggets scored 11 whole points in the first quarter, you got no chance. Jokic was terrible and the Wolves are in very firm control. Tonight you got Boston and Philadelphia. That series is tied 1-1. That series got juice to it now all of a sudden. Now I expect Boston to win tonight, but that series has got some serious juice to it. Are you nervous, Juju? You're a Celtics fan.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm nervous because it reared its ugly head. The thing I hate the most about them, them 3-pointers, bruh. You guys are way too talented to be playing with your food on that 3-point line. Take them to the hole. You see how they doing, uh, Jalen Brunson? Oh, whoever, go to the hole. And I think everybody on the Celtics is capable of that, even the bench guys, Gonzalez, even, uh, Shireman. Everybody has that ability and they continue to settle. So it's— anything's possible.

All right, let's give equal time here because we also have San Antonio at Portland tonight. Series tied, a game apiece. Trista, are you nervous tonight about the Blazers?

I'm worried about the fact that there is a possibility that Victor Wembanyama could be back tonight.

But yeah, what's the latest word there? Because like a tech— like, do we know if he's been passing the test? Because it's 48 hours until he's allowed to even start doing anything basketball related. So that would have been last night.

I'm surprised he was allowed to travel when he's still in concussion protocol. He went to Portland with the rest of the Spurs. So I'm, I'm a bit nervous that he could just somehow like, uh, you know, like the Kool-Aid Man come through the door and be like, I'm back!

Oh yeah, I think he plays. Bonjour!

I think he plays.

Uh, so, but I think my pregame croissant—

I think in general this is maybe one of the worst matchups for the Spurs just because you got a very long, very athletic, very young, pretty deep wing core. I want to know whether that's gonna be a good crowd tonight. Oh, the thing that people don't understand is Moda be rocking the Rose Garden. In PO, we rep the Rose, not the Madison Square.

Can we put it on the poll, Juju? Do people know that Moda be rocking? Thank you. And also tonight, you got the Lakers at Houston. It doesn't sound like things are all that great in Houston with the Rockets and maybe their relationship with their best player, Kevin Durant. This is a must-win. I'm going to get to Rudy Gobert. All right. Calm down, Dave. This is likely a must-win game for the Rockets tonight. You can't go down 0-3, of course, against LeBron. Let me, let me tell you something about Rudy Gobert.

Hey, it's Mike Ryan, and I want to talk to you about the random midweek hang that you have with your friends. Maybe it's an NBA game, you get a text, hey, come over, you want to watch the game? And maybe you're like, ah, I don't know, I kind of just wanted to stay home. And then you think about it after your buddy hits you up, and you know just the thing that'll make that regular hang, that regular midweek hang around the basketball game into a special time, into a Miller Time. That's right, this happened to me just last week. I grabbed a 6-pack of Miller Lite, said I was on my way, and next thing you know, we're arguing about rotations like we're on the coaching staff, yelling about a missed call, and the game's coming down to the final possession. It was one of those nights that you look around, you take a sip, and you think, yeah, this was the right call, and my friendship's stronger for it. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste, 96 calories. Go to millerlite.com/dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

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