Transcript of Dave Has Thoughts on Aaron Rodgers New

All right, so last things first, in honor of the 2026 NFL season ending in SoFi Stadium, I'm hereby ready to announce my pick for Super Bowl 61. And yes, it's a sequel to my 2021 Super Bowl prediction. That's right, I'm doing it. Rams v Chargers. Once upon a time in Hollywood, or Inglewood, either way, it's a sequel and I'm copycatting myself, if that's a thing you can do. I was half right the first time I said this 5 years ago. This time, Valentine's Stay 2027. Love is in the air. LA's all in, both sides. Not one team playing a home game, but two. Three words for that: ooh la la. Real quick though, if you aren't aware, or if time has just gotten away from you, we're now a decade into the Prodigal Sons both wearing blue and gold coming home. Related, it gets weirder every month remembering one of the best teams of the entire Super Bowl era played in the St. Louis-based Dome. Has the tenure in LA been a success. Sure, for the league, SoFi's in the Super Bowl site rotation, don't you know? It's the most exclusive sports click since the front row at a Knickerbockers game.

And while I know SoFi's two teams don't necessarily love the color of the jerseys the ticket-buying fans wear and the towels they wave up in the stands, the seats are notably full. Yeah, there have been some mistakes, and I don't just mean the Rams purposely making their logo look like it says LAC. But for the most part, the Rams have had more to cheer about over the last 10 years, and Stan Kroenke makes 10 times more money than his SoFi tenant Dean Spanos does. Rams fans have gotten to see their team win a Super Bowl in their home stadium and witness the guy who might be the greatest defensive player of all time. Okay, that's not accurate. That was Lawrence Taylor. But still, Aaron Donald was very, very good. The Rams, of course, also made it to another Super Bowl, plus won the greatest regular season game of all time in the Coliseum. High five for those of you who remember that one. Now, on the Chargers side, they, um, well, they have better uniforms. And now they get a redshirt to go along with those uniforms. Yes, I'm giving Jim Harbaugh's second season a redshirt.

Why? Because I'm society's greatest empath, and the real turning point for his teams in Palo Alto, San Francisco, and Ann Arbor was that second season. And he requires big strong fellas who lean good on 300-pound defenders, and his two tackles were hurt last year. So redshirt. Yes, both teams are a success a decade in, even more so if and when my prophecy comes true, and they play each other in so fine on Valentine's Day '27. Problem is, the 800-pound silver and black gorilla even, is this: the Raiders might be more popular still. In fact, a great what-if, or an if-elle, what if the Chargers and Raiders would have just switched places? No way the Raiders would rent space in Stan Kroenke's ballroom, so who knows where they'd be playing right now. Maybe an upgraded Coliseum, or, you know, memory, if my memory is correct, Fernando enjoyed his time in the Rose Bowl, and the Chargers would be in the big rumba in Vegas. Vegas, except it'd now be powder blue. All fun to consider, but let's get real. Super Bowl 61 in SoFi, Chargers, Rams, Cliff Booth doing the coin toss. Let's start the show.

Yes, hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America, presented as ever by our pals over at DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. And before anything else, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. Why don't you send a text message right now to your best pals and to your mom and tell them all that they need to subscribe? I think that's a great idea. I don't care if it's on the audio podcast or the YouTube page, Football America with the exclamation point. Better both. How about that? I just told you both LA football teams are going to finish their season At home in SoFi, let's say hello now to our pals Mike Fuentes and Buddy Budowski. Sad to report, Gino Fuentes homesick, but we haven't a moment to spare here. I'm going to start with you, Mike Fuentes. You heard my pick. It's not a homer pick, it is where I live— Rams and Chargers. How say you? Who's playing in 61, fella?

I like the Rams. I don't know Chargers, I'll never see it as long as Justin Herbert there is their quarterback. So I'm going to go with the Los Angeles Rams.

Oh, how lame is that? I just said Rams and you jump in with that. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that's supposed to be.

The Los Angeles Rams. And I'm going to go ahead and say, ooh, Ethan, do I want the bounce-back Patrick Mahomes year coming off injury or do I want the Buffalo Bills?

Why are we on the same page?

Why are we on the same page?

You know what? We're on the same page. I hate it.

Kansas City Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes reclaims the AFC.

Oh no, oh no, that would be— at this point, I think that would count as a cool story, you know? Yes, that hasn't—

I agree.

Do we— is that right that the Chiefs have now fallen back just a tick? And with the return from, from, uh, from the injury and everything else, that we now—

I mean, oh my God, I keep forgetting he's coming off a torn ACL, Dave. Every time I remember it, I'm like, DraftKings I think draft—

I mean, DraftKings hasn't completely knocked them, but they— their odds aren't as short. Yeah, as the front runners.

Fuentes is on that. Fuentes is on that right now. But I— yeah, I think it is a great story. I mean, look, every Superman has fallen, right? Like, the Chiefs have not won back-to-back Super Bowls. Uh, I think this is their longest drought, if you want to call it, in this— since Mahomes has started winning. And, uh, well, Okay, they've evened it now because they took 2 years off in 2020 and 2021 as well. But I mean, we haven't seen them this low, right? Like, now they've missed the playoffs. Mahomes is coming off an injury. Like, this is the first real adversity that we've seen him face.

And just as a reminder for anybody who may have a little bit of amnesia, they were missing the playoffs before the injury. Of course. People like, don't remind— well, he was hurt, what were they going to do?

Correct.

They missed the playoffs and then he got hurt. Yes.

The exclamation mark on the season right now, DraftKings Sportsbook, they are the third best odds in the AFC behind Buffalo Bills, Bills and Ravens.

I just said so.

Which—

not even the Broncos. That's interesting.

Well, that's another—

I wonder, right? I was going to say, I wonder how much weight they're putting into the Bo Nix injury there because the early reports on that are highly concerning, are concerning that he might never be the same.

Well, I think that there's 2,000 right now, plus 2,000. I think legitimately that that is one of the considerations for the Rodgers side of things. I don't know if you guys heard, Aaron Rodgers is officially back. Really? Steelers, really? 26th, and it's his last season. I mean, I've never felt like a bigger curmudgeon than I do around this because since that announcement, I mean, it was pretty clear all along that this is the way things were going to wind up here. But Mike McCarthy into a microphone says on Wednesday Everybody in the locker room was so excited, and now a lot of people nationally and otherwise— is there going to be a farewell tour? Is there going to be? It feels anticlimactic. Didn't it feel like Aaron Rodgers' career ended a year ago and 3 years ago when he tore the Achilles? So I'm underwhelmed by the feel-good story, I guess. But we'll dig in on that a little bit. So, Buddy Budowski, have you given us a proper pick here yet? Because I'm ready to start firing through. As I was thinking about Chargers, like, I, I can definitely make a case and just attempted to make a, uh, a quick one for them.

Year 3 of Harbaugh and all that, um, Mike McDaniel with Justin Herbert, I like that as well. Uh, I can make a case for— I wonder how deep the list goes on the AFC side of things of teams that could plausibly win the Super Bowl. I do not think the Steelers are one of those. I do think Ravens and I do think the Bengals have a chance. In this freshly constituted team. Joe Burrow seems kind of comfy with it in terms of, in terms of the top to bottom roster. The one that's the wild card is the South. I could see the Jags doing it and I could see the Texans doing that. Is that, is that crazy to say?

I think that's a big leap for the Jags and the Texans. I mean, a team that hasn't been, I mean, slightly mentioned is the Bills. But it kind of feels like last year, like, was that— was their missed opportunity, right? Was their big missed opportunity. It's hard for me to pick the Bills if they couldn't get it done when Mahomes wasn't there. And it's the same thing, to be fair, with the Ravens and the Bengals as well. If they— and the Chargers, if they couldn't get it done when Mahomes wasn't there, who can? You know, I think the Patriots probably take a step back this year. I don't think they'll return to Super Bowl form. Their schedule will be a lot tougher.

I guess they could. But I— yeah, it's funny that I would leave them off. They were in the Super Bowl, as you say. I kind of leave them off the list of teams that I think are going— are real contenders for the Super Bowl this year. It's the Bills. And then the West is the division of heavyweights. I guess you could make a case for the North if you count the Steelers and Bengals as being prominent enough in contention. Go ahead.

It's also—

we have a lot to get to. Let's go.

It's also so hard for me to pick teams that have been back to back years. Yes, make 'em pick!

All right.

All right. All right.

All right.

Move on.

All right.

What are we doing? I'm going to go with the Chiefs.

I'm going to take the Chiefs to get back to the promised land.

I think Mahomes returns to form, and, uh, I hate to do this, but all you needed to do was say that part.

I'm gonna go with—

what's wrong with—

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do the Eagles rematch. I think the Eagles bounce back this year too without AJ Brown. They're still really good. That roster's really—

yeah, yeah, loaded.

The guy who struggles at quarterback, let's take away his best weapon, he'll do better for sure. There's nothing—

yeah, but they're— they drafted Makai Lemon. Like, I still think they're gonna be a really, really good team. That roster—

I also want to get Rodgers and all of that, plus I want to get to the second week in a row of Over/Under, talking about things that are overrated and underrated both in football and the game of life. Quickly though, I think the signature story of this week was the Game 1 performance from Wemby against OKC, and we'll see how that hash gets settled on that side of things, and the Knickerbockers winning that all-time rally. Against the Cavs is good news for the NBA. You know, as is true almost every spring, the Stanley Cup playoffs have overall been more entertaining than the NBA playoffs. But I also think that we'll know once and for all, if this is in doubt for anybody, that the sports gods just prefer pro basketball to hockey if you do wind up with the Knickerbockers getting there And they catch really either way, either the, the whole dynasty of OKC, that's, that's the one side of things, or Wemby. And the performance by Wemby in Game 1 has been sort of like, this is the arrival, the alien has landed and all of that. Obviously, if you've been watching any pro basketball the last couple, he's, he's just a freak.

To your eyeballs to look at, and let alone that physical freak making 30-footers and all the rest of it, um, in big spots. And it made me think of— it, it's borderline one of those things of when you were watching that Game 1 and he's over 40 and he's 20-something rebounds and all of that, and you feel like, boy, this is going to change the game forever. It will never be the same. Like I keep saying, I absolutely, not to be a cynic, could see Wemby getting hurt. But short, I mean, he just seems like every trip up and down the floor he's going to break. And same goes for, for Chet. But if that doesn't happen, I feel like when you're looking at this, you feel like, well, this— the game will never be the same after watching that. And then that got me thinking, what is the NFL comp to that? And I have a short list here. To me, it started in 1984 with Dan Marino in his second season. There was an effect watching those games. You know, I'd been watching football for, I don't know, half a decade there at that point, vaguely aware as a little boy of the Pittsburgh Steelers winning the two Super Bowls, 13 and 14.

And so I'm steeped and I love football and I'm going to Pitt games and watching Dan Marino. And then he He should have gotten drafted by the Steelers, but he goes to the Dolphins instead, and he plays in his rookie season and is real good. But then when he hits the ground running in '84, it's unlike anything you've ever seen before. It felt like he was throwing a touchdown pass every time he touched the ball. After that, I think Bo Jackson's arrival makes the list. That game in the Kingdom, trucking Bosworth and—

Dave, I don't know if you hear the music, but you mentioned Dan Marino. Marino, and you mentioned hit the ground running. Look who's back! That's me! Hello everyone, it's the Count from Pennsylvania. That was very weird, Dave.

Pennsylvania?

Yeah, I don't know, I'm gonna assume because Transylvania pointed out on a map. Anyway, Dan Marino, in his massive career known for throwing the football. Dave, do you want to take a guess on how many rushing yards Dan Marino had in his illustrious career?

Dan Marino rush yards? That's not what we're talking about. I'm talking about 48 touchdowns.

The ground running, Dave.

He could run. He could run before he had that Achilles injury, and then he got the big butt. Then he got that real big butt, high, uh, even more so because of those hip pads he wore and everything. Uh, Dan Marino, he could run. He was a good athlete when he was at Pitt. I'm gonna go with grand total 700 rush yards in this. Oh!

No, Dave, you're only off by about— let's see, some quick math, carry the 2— you're only off by about, looks like, 623 yards or 613 yards. Sorry, I haven't done math in a long time, wasn't my best subject. I took communications, that's why I'm here. That's what—

count— yes, the count is bad at math.

Yeah, of course. Wow, I just realized the irony. That's crazy. Okay, 1, 2— now we'll be here all day. But no, Dave, in reality, he actually had 87 rush yards for his entire career.

That can't be true.

That's right, that can't be 18, 18 NFL seasons or 19, Dave? Help the brother out.

Don't spell that in C— in seashells. It's close enough. It could get you— oh, probably 87. But wait a second, that's got to be 87 career rush yards. There's no way that could be right unless they're doing the thing of including this, the loss yardage of sacks.

I don't think they do that. I don't think they do that in the NFL. I think strictly in college. Am I correct, Ethan? College where I was bad at math.

Well, let's see here. So they must, because there's a lot of negative.

Oh, you don't know. Yeah, you don't know. All right, buddy, for nothing.

There's a lot of—

you—

we also mentioned earlier Lamar Jackson, a South Florida native where Dan Marino played his career. He very likely watched Dan Marino on TV.

He had over 87 rush yards in his career.

Yeah, I would say, yeah, maybe because Do you want to take a guess how many he had in his first career start?

Oh, that's crazy. I mean, it's gonna be sad if it's over 87.

Oh, it's way over 87, Dave.

95!

He had 119 rush yards in his first NFL start, not only eclipsing Dan Marino—

Sweet Jesus!

—but about 150% more. How many? One, two— I'd skip a few. Skip a few. 119 rushing yards from Lamar Jackson in his first career start. Thank you, Dave.

Bye. Today I learned that Fuentes—

I always like when he gives us some numbers. I had no idea that he is fighting through. It's sort of like he sacrifices himself to share math since he's bad at math.

Today I learned, by the way, Dave, just bouncing off the count, today I learned that Fuentes did theater in middle school.

Huh? Yeah, I did. I was Michael Jackson in a rendition of The Wiz. I played Scarecrow. That's right, I was a Scarecrow.

Oh, we must dig up videotape of that.

I couldn't believe it.

It does exist somewhere in a dusty VHS.

Dude, I just gotta find that. That would be so great for Mystery Crate. Yeah, or here.

Basketball's never the same after Wemby. Football's never the same after Marino. And I can't imagine The Wiz.

Well, Broadway was never the same after Fuentes did The Wiz. What, what middle school?

The North— North Miami.

All right, I'm a completionist, so I'm completing my list here. Yes, the other ones that would be on my list of things that I felt like watching it sitting there. I thought, man, sports changed forever. Um, Kaepernick, Colin Kaepernick in the divisional round game in Candlestick against the Niners, of course, when he was running away. And these— this is a great Packers team. There's a height of their powers, Aaron Rodgers and everything else. Um, and Kaepernick, who takes over, which is also sort of crazy too. That's a sort of foot on the gas approach of Jim Harbaugh. Um, but it's pretty wild that you had a team that played in the previous year's title game, and were it not for the punt returner Kyle Williams fumbling twice, the Niners would have gone to the Super Bowl with Alex Smith. And yet halfway through the following season, in which they're succeeding— the Niners are good— Jim Harbaugh nevertheless says, I think we can be a little bit better, let's put Kaepernick in there. And he's proven right. Because when you watch that divisional round game, he just is running away from guys. And it's sort of like— I was talking to Soup Campbell, producer, about this, and he said that it's reminiscent of Vince Young in those Rose Bowls, running away from Michigan and otherwise.

And that's exactly right. Kaepernick is running, and his style isn't like he's going balls out to run as hard as he can. He just had a certain kind of— has a certain stride to him, and he's pulling away from NFL-level defenders who I'm pretty sure are all fast. Um, so that was one. And you know, I do think— talk about what if and stuff— if he completes that last throw to Michael Crabtree in the corner of the end zone to beat the Ravens in that Super Bowl, there's no way Kaepernick is pushed out of the league. There's no way that the Niners move on as quickly from Kaepernick as they did. So it's fascinating to consider that one play as a massive inflection point of the last 15 years in pro football, right?

You forget how good he was, Dave. Like, he, he was— I don't— he was a revelation. Yeah, no, I know, but for me, like, it's— his career has been so overshadowed by obviously everything that had happened since. But he— yeah, he was a revelation, and he, he did kind of usher in that new era of quarterback, right? Like, when you said Colin Kaepernick changed the game, I was like, oh yeah, that moment when, you know, it kind of started breaking through in the news when he was kneeling on the sidelines and stuff. But no, you're absolutely right in that regard, that, that rushing style of play, like, that became a big thing after— only after him, right? He was kind of the first one. Vic was already doing it. Vic, yeah, but Vic was a one-off, right? But now it's like, no, but Mike— see these guys doing it more and more.

I'm sure if Colin Kaepernick, you sat him down and asked him, hey, like, who'd you model yourself after? I'm sure Mike Vick creeps in there. Mike Vick was like the original guy. But I mean, until— in that playoff game, 181 yards on the ground and then 263 in the air, like But lost in that game, Michael Crabtree, 9 catches, 119 yards, 2 touchdowns.

Those teams were so good. Those defenses were so good. Like, they didn't end up winning Super Bowls.

No, but the Ravens were not a great— people forget, it's such a weird stretch, that 6-week stretch that Flacco had, because he's carrying the Ravens. The defense is fine. It really is not a signature Ravens defense. Ray Lewis is in there and becomes the story. And by the way, ask any of the Ravens who were a part of that team, hey, Hey, did you feel like that the entire thing becoming about Ray Lewis was a little offensive to all the other guys on the roster? And they'll all raise their eyebrows and roll their eyes a little bit at old Ray Ray getting all the attention for that when he was on his last legs. It really was about Joe Flacco and all the rest of it. That is also— Super Bowl XLVII is one of the 5 best Super Bowls ever played. Somehow it has slipped through the cracks. And I hate the Ravens, obviously. I'm not rooting for the Ravens. Credit where it's due, that's one of the best back and forths you'll ever see. But Mike Vick properly is the guy who is that sort of, what in the hell are we looking at kind of thing.

Even back to Virginia Tech, it was a one-man game against all of mighty Florida State in that title game, and he still kind of kept them in it. Then he goes to Atlanta and you think, well, I mean, he's not big enough, and what evidence is there of running the ball around and succeeding doing that in pro football. The best runner, the most successful high-end quarterback who ran around a lot up to that point. Roger Staubach did it and Steve Young did it, but Mike Vick, smaller and all of that, but pulling away from guys, it was, again, was a phenom. And then that brings my head to the Tim Tebow experience, was a much shorter run. That was—

I was talking about it the other day.

More of a short story than a novel. Electric. It was— you know what it was? It was NFL's version of Linsanity in New York. You knew it wasn't gonna make it forever. You didn't think it could make it forever, but while it was going on, you're like, again, again, he did it in the last couple minutes. For those couple months, it was, uh, it was something to behold. In fact, my team got got by Tebow, and at the end of, uh— I was at the—

we all remember the 2-completion playoff win yesterday.

No, 10 completions on 21 attempts for 316 yards and 2 touchdowns.

I just remember Demarius Thomas running down Yes. With nobody near him.

Yes. Right, right on the slant. I was at his— I was at his first start.

Stiff-arming my guy, Ike Taylor.

Yeah. His first start was here in Miami. And my mom and I got tickets like the day of the game because we heard Tebow was going to be starting. And we went and he did the same thing. He led the Broncos back in the fourth quarter against the Dolphins. And the crowd was so anti-Tebow that my mom and I turned on the Dolphins and just started rooting for Tim Tebow to win. Because we were so fired up against this crowd that was obviously a bunch of Canes fans rooting against Tebow to win. And it was electric. It was so much fun.

It's funny, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the Florida-based football fan experiences things and rooting interests and all of that. I felt like— it feels to me like you guys will get behind anybody who makes the Sunshine State look good. So I'm glad to hear that actually that some U fans were not on the side of Tim Tebow because Tebow is in the conversation for greatest college football player anywhere in football, correct? America, let alone in Florida. Better overall career.

He's not just in the discussion, he is the discussion. He is. Cam Newton exists. Sorry. Yeah, but Cam Newton had one season. Tim Tebow played all 4 years. He won 2 national championships. Well, he wasn't going to— won a Heisman, was the first underclassman ever to win the Heisman.

Somebody's got to win it.

Okay, did I forget anything? What, what are the ma— the ones that was like, oh my God, I can't believe what I'm looking at right now. The— I mean, I vaguely remember when I was allowed to stay up for the first half of Monday Night Football listening to Howard Cosell and everybody. I remember, speaking of playing against the Dolphins, I remember Earl Campbell's breakout game on Monday Night Football against the Dolphins when he ran for, I think, 4 touchdowns, but it seemed like the 3 of them were all up the right sideline, him just running away from guys, and he was huge. For the era. So it was striking to see that. And the catch is, as I always say, I think one of the 3 biggest moments in the Super Bowl era because it essentially ends once and for all the Cowboys' reign over the NFC for a decade and replaces them in that moment with the San Francisco 49ers. So that was massive. Um, am I missing any?

I Are we doing football only? Or are we going elsewhere? You'll do any sport.

Uh, the Mario Lemieux, obviously.

Two that, you know, two that came to mind for me. This was before I really got into F1, but Max Verstappen won his first start in a Red Bull as a teenager. Max. And that was immediately like every F1 fan was like, every F1 fan was like, this kid has arrived.

I'm trying to see what I can hit him with where I don't care about.

I'm not talking about rich guy hobby. Uh, okay.

You want to talk in a, you want to talk one of our sports? Okay. Steven Schrossberg. Yes, please. Steven Strasburg. Steven Strasburg's first start when he arrived with the Nationals, that was like an event that they were like breaking into SportsCenter for that. And I think he like struck out 12 against the Pirates in 5 innings or something like that.

I remember that. Actually, that's a good one. Kerry Wood, when he first made the scene in Chicago on the North Side and I was staying in the basement like Laverne and Shirley lived, you know, below, and you could see the feet walking by. I lived with Johnny the Wussy and the Hog. They lived down there and I stayed with them for a while after graduation. And we would watch the feet walk by and you could hear Wrigley Field. You could hear the organ and the crowd and everything else. And that day you could hear the crowd going wild on a rainy day. One hit, Kerry Wood.

20 strikeouts. I don't remember who they were playing.

I think it was the Astros.

The Astros. You know what? The Astros in those old blue and like navy and gold Astros uniforms. Yep. They play it every, every baseball broadcast.

What I remember is Kevin Orie, the third baseman, allowed a hit that really could have been called an error, and then it would have been a no-hitter, and then that would be the greatest pitched game of all time. Anyway, anything else besides stupid F1 crap?

Yeah, I have a team— I know it kind of goes against what we're talking about with individual athletes or whatever, but I remember watching— I don't remember the exact year, I think it might have been '07, I might be wrong, but watching the Brady-Randy Moss Patriots. Oh, '07 season.

Oh, well, Randy Moss, period, when he's a rookie in Minnesota. Well, I don't know, I mean, but that's— but I remember watching, but that was just all deep shots, like, he caught it again.

But you're watching, you're like, no one's ever gonna stop this. This is— this is right.

Yeah, the game I remember—

how is this a thing that can be stopped? It is unstoppable.

The game I remember from that year is, uh, they played the Titans in the snow and they wore the Pat Patriot red uniforms and they throwing through the snow, and Randy Moss was scoring like 50-yard touchdowns. I just remember that. Yeah, it was somewhere right in the middle of the season, and that was kind of the game that was like, okay, this is a great start. Now this is— we might be witnessing history here. That's when the undefeated—

well, that's your point, buddy. Well, I guess your, your mutual point, the, the thing that was crazy was, you know, because the meaning of upset That has been diminished by parody, which is why I am so resentful of parody, because what is an upset anymore when every game feels adjacent to a coin flip? That you take away the meaning of that and it makes us all cynics. But I mean, the Giants— it wasn't like going into that game the Patriots, undefeated as they were, were like, man, the NFC rep though, pretty formidable too. But people was like, the Giants got to the Super Bowl.

Yeah, but people forget that in week 17 of that year they played each other and I remember very close by 3.

Yeah, very close game.

But, but back to my original point, these guys didn't play a close game until week 9. All right, like, like they scored 48, 49, and 57 in 3 weeks, and then they ended up playing, um, Peyton Manning's Colts in Indianapolis and it was 24-20. Then the next— then they go on bye, they come, they go to Buffalo and they beat that team 56-10. It's like, how would you think anyone can beat this team?

And then, oh, you know what, I have to mention The Greatest Show on Turf. How did I forget them? The Greatest Show on Turf was watching that in the moment, those first— that first like month or even 2 months, because it starts, as I'm sure everybody kind of sort of remembers, Trent Green. Dick Vermeil is the head coach, and they get Trent Green, the Indiana guy who was a legit good QB, uh, you know, hamstrung as he was with the talent around him at IU at the time, um, and you thought, okay, wow, he's a starting quarterback. It's pretty good for a guy out of Bloomington. So as a grad, you know, some reflected glory there. But then he gets run— by the way, that's why you cannot talk— the people who talk about Rodney Harrison going to the Hall of Fame, just go watch that preseason game. Intentionally just kneecaps Trent Green and essentially ends what might have been his story. But then the bag boy comes in And they're just— talk about unstoppable. When you watch them play, it was sort of like what me as a little kid watching Dan Marino in '84.

You decide they score every time they touch the ball. This is insane. I mean, nobody has any answer for them. And I guess it made sense with the pass catchers they had, plus Marshall Falk back there. Sheesh. Also Tiger Woods, if you're having this conversation, the '97 Masters right now, well, he's beating everybody by weight. He's ahead by 78 strokes right now.

That's the '97 Masters, I'm assuming, is the moment you go to, Dave, for Tiger's arrival? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, Dave, I'm here looking at the 1999 season for the Rams. Their bye week was Week 2. That's inhumane.

So they had to play—

what is this, like 15 football games in a row?

Wasn't there a year recently where the Dolphins had to do this because there was a hurricane? I think, yeah. And they had to— they, they, they they moved the game because of the hurricane and they were like, that's your bye week, like you're screwed. And they had to play like 13 games in a row or something like that.

We know the roof might be getting blown off your house, but hope you enjoy the break. You know, it's, it's a— that's crazy, Dave.

When you talk about Wemby, the guy that came to mind for me in terms of like just freakish, never seen before, was Calvin Johnson. Mega, Megatron. And, and there's not— to me, there's not like like Wemby had his moment the other night. There's not like one moment to me that I specifically remember. I was very young when Calvin Johnson emerged, but he's the guy I think— How young are you? I, I am— he just retired. I was— I believe I was 8 years old when Calvin Johnson was drafted. But yeah, he's the guy that I go to that was like, we have literally never seen anybody like this before, and you can't stop him. Like, you just throw— Matt Stafford throws the ball in his vicinity and he is going to going to end up catching the ball. And that, that's what it feels like to Wemby. Like, I watched that game the other night. They need a bucket at the end of the game and the shot clock's running down. They just throw it up to him. He catches, turns, and dunks it over Chet. And I'm like, I've never seen anything like this before.

Like, he— you literally cannot stop him. And to me, that guy in the NFL was Calvin Johnson.

Um, fair. And the numbers bear out what you're saying. I always just felt like like he was— that they had his measurements down and had his gold jacket ready to go before he even played a game in Detroit. He always had that vibe to me. Yeah, that he was so heralded that they sort of— that the machine talked him into greatness before he actually had achieved it. Not to say there weren't great moments, but then he does really have one of the all-time stretches for about 5 years, so it's impossible to push back on. Um, all right, let's do over-under, and then we can get into Aaron Rodgers here, because you, you, your buddy Budowski bring me to that with, um, with the Wemby mention once again. And there was a moment when Wemby— that Chet moved over to him, uh, a split second too late, and he got I guess what you would call posterized. And then of course they had to say, oh my God, Chick got posterized, how humiliating. And this is something I've mentioned before, and I'm going to bring it up to you now. I, I think over— being posterized is so overrated as a humiliation, just in basketball.

You know, in football, like, sometimes the guy tries to sack you and your pants get pulled down and your bum comes out. That's embarrassing. Um, I think getting stripped of the ball You know, is embarrassing if you're carrying the ball and somebody knocks it out of your hand. That's kind of a pathetic look for you. Um, in basketball, I think I would much rather get post— what, what, somebody tall who can dunk and I got up to the rim with him and I was a split second late, so I'm in the picture with him, uh, is not nearly as embarrassing as getting, let's say, crossed over by Allen Iverson and falling down on the floor, right?

Well, I told you my take about this the other day that Wemby will never be able to posterize anybody in his career because the only way you can posterize somebody is if they are the same height or taller than you. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. I'm sorry, Wemby, you're never gonna have a poster. You're supposed to dunk over the guy that you're 5 inches taller than.

Yeah, you're being anti-heightist, though. No, no, no, I think—

Anti-heightist my ass! This guy has everything!

He's tall, he can shoot threes from 30 feet, he can do everything! Well, that's why it would be embarrassing for me if you posted him.

He's not gonna have this one thing, Dave! I already decided! Decided he can never posterize anybody. That's it. Okay.

You know what? You know what?

He kind of makes a good point.

Fuentes, the, the, because the Starks, I'm trying to think of the most famous post that I think you're right. Everything is not. Maybe you're right. Everything cannot be declared a posterizing.

Yes.

Yes. It's like Michael Jordan doing that to Patrick Ewing. That's humiliating. Great poster because Dwyane Wade has 7 inches on.

Right. Dwyane Wade kicking Anderson Varejão in the chest, bouncing off of him and still throwing down over him.

6'4" throwing down on a 6'10" guy.

Although a good example of taller than but still posterizing was DeAndre Jordan on Brandon Knight. That was unbelievable when he threw the ball in over him, like soaring over. When LeBron dunks on Jason Terry, you're supposed to do that. Oh, dude, electric.

Jason Terry was never gonna have a chance to block that ball. So no, no, no. If you're taller than the guy that you're dunking on, you can't posterize.

I think also a poster has to have some sort of an effort to block the ball. So if it's just kind of like you go through a guy like LeBron did with Jason Terry or DeAndre Jordan did, like they weren't going up for it. You kind of have to get them going up and like making an attempt to block. But also, do kids put posters in their rooms anymore? Like, are posters still a thing?

Yeah, we have here at the house Hoover Damashek. He has like his He has a One Piece poster, but he has— oh, you know what, he does have an NFL poster in his room. I hung it up there, but it's a picture of the 32 helmets. It's good. That sort of thing, that's a good thing, which itself into your brain before you even know what's really happening. You come to understand what the logos are, and, and then you see them on TV, and now you're all the way in. That's how you— that's how you create fandom, or at least that's how I'm trying to do it in this house. Rasheed Rice. People who root for the, the helmet that you see, the red one with that, uh, with that arrowhead on it, um, includes Rasheed Rice on its roster. Um, do we, do we just skip over the rationalizations? I think it's underrated how quickly people just move to the rationalizations about why this is all going to work out for your team. It's because he's I mean, can't we just say that out loud? Why is that? Why have we moved on from just the ability?

I think it's because, as I have floated this before, I think the Crossfire type talk shows, the political shows from 30, 40 years ago, beget Pardon the Interruption, which is well-intentioned. Hey, I'll take this side, you take that side of the binary conversation, the debate. We'll take both sides and we'll go at it. At it. This muscle has been developed culturally now and is now what TV still is doing, which is you take the side of why the ballroom is good and you take the side of why the ballroom is bad for America, and it becomes who's good at rhetorical argument, who's good at debate club. And it's removed the ability to just in a straightforward say like, well, yeah, the reason the Chiefs are going to try to keep him is because he's good at football. I mean, he's an asshole, clearly. He has no business— I'm not— I couldn't care less if somebody's burning trees, obviously, in their free time. But when you're on probation and your career is hanging in the balance, this indicates that you're immature at minimum. And why can't we just say that and have the Chiefs say, listen, we can't have this shit?

Fuentes says it all the time.

I mean, this is literally like your number one argument, Fuentes.

Yeah, I would love for like Andy Reid to just come out out and he has a board and there's a bunch of papers on it and he goes, well, you know, why are we keeping him? Well, look, these are our splits when he's not in the lineup and this is them when he is, and that's, that's why he's on the roster and he's gonna miss OTAs and we're gonna throw him some obligatory fines and that's gonna be the end of it.

I mean, next question. That's it. The clearest example right now in sports, Dave, is the Hockey Canada Five. One of the players made it back to the NHL and it's a player that the NHL organizations decided was valuable enough to re-sign despite everything that followed them, right? The 4 other guys are playing in like Europe and Carter Hart is playing for the Vegas Golden Knights and unfortunately playing really well in these playoffs. And that's just how it is. Like, if you're valuable enough to us, we will put up with it. There are certain organizations that won't, and there are plenty of organizations that will say we'll put up with it because you will contribute to winning, and that's our bottom line.

Hey, um, I think that, um, one more for you here. I just remembered, with Geno out, I failed to take care of business. This is episode number 65. We didn't honor the player who wore the number 65 best in NFL and/or sports history. Do we have anybody? Buddy Budowski.

Well, I was going to remind you earlier. I'm not Buddy, but I was going to remind you earlier, but you were on a roll. We were on a roll. We were talking about the Patriots. Is. Anyway, it's fine.

Well, because Buddy just mentioned hockey and that takes me to the obvious answer.

Yeah, well, for football, really quick because we're still in offensive lineman hell, according to this random website that I brought up, Gary Zimmerman, Hall of Famer, played for the Vikings and Broncos. Elvin Bethea, another one. And the best name, I believe, on this list, Dave Butts, tackle for Washington.

That's a great name. Dave Butts.

That's the name of my butt, by the way.

65 in hockey, Dave, you'll love this one. Erik Karlsson, defenseman, future Hall of Famer likely, Norris Trophy winner. Erik Karlsson right in the 65s still.

You think that might, you think that might not happen?

You know, there are always some, there's always somebody that's gonna disagree with you when you say that guy's a Hall of Famer, so I always preface it with likely or probable unless it's a guy like LeBron, or, you know, somebody else.

Let me tell you, 2022-25, Dave would have not made— would not have been happy because it had been a failure. But Erik Karlsson, I mean, had the greatest single month. I know it's hyperbole, greatest month I've ever seen for an NHL defenseman in March. And 36 years old, so maybe there's still some meat left.

Stay tuned for— is it hyperbole or are you a prisoner of the moment?

Ooh, to say that that's the best I've ever seen.

Yeah, this past March, right? Probably prisoner of the moment.

That's probably both. No, no, they're not. No, they're not the same thing.

Prisoner of the moment.

I mean, well, you become a prisoner of the moment and then you go on to hyperbolize. There you go.

Oh, gotcha. By the way, the youngs are guilty of being prisoners of the moment and the olds, um, lie. Yes, mysticize to a ridiculous this degree. And as we— I've provided a number of examples, but today's is Michael Wilbon saying, you think that Aaron Rodgers can hold a candle athletically? I'm not talking about deeds, I'm just talking about athletically to John Elway. Michael Wilbon, you think John Elway, but I mean just across the board, is a superior athlete to Aaron Rodgers? What are you talking about? He's bigger, that's about it.

Didn't he run more? Didn't have a bigger win. Did he run more? He was a guy that got around.

He didn't run Oh, he could run. Yeah, he was a great scrambler. He wasn't better than Aaron Rodgers.

I mean, I know he was a two-sport athlete and everything, and he might have been a great athlete, but he's making it seem like Aaron Rodgers is like some kind of bum, like he couldn't run at all, like he was a statue.

I forget that. No, I forget that Rodgers could move around. I'm so used to Aaron Rodgers of the last 3 years. Like, 5 years ago, Aaron Rodgers was still doing the thing where he was so athletic in the pocket.

Yeah, threat with his legs. Legit. Yeah, that's a great point.

I totally forgot about that.

I'm so glad you did that, Brad. You said it that way because I think this— as I say, I feel like a curmudgeon that I'm not in on the celebration that some percentage of, I guess, football Americans— it's not just Steelers fans, but some people are really optimistic about what Aaron Rodgers can do. And I should say that I think that the Steelers should be I don't know if the record will bear this out because it really depends, you know, how the, the ebbs and flows of a football season. And we're assuming good health for Aaron Rodgers, which is a big assumption for a 43-year-old person who still has in the, in the rearview mirror not too far back there the Achilles. And plus he broke a wrist, um, last year. Is that what it was? A bruise? I can't remember exactly, uh, what was going on with his throwing hand there, but, um, Either way, this is what happens to older men. Um, I think on a piece of paper, I think if, I think if the 2026 Steelers as constituted right now played the 2025 Steelers, I would take this edition over last year's.

The schedule sets up in such a way, kind of like it did last year, that they should get out of the gate in good shape, but then there's a gauntlet awaiting them around the halfway point back half of the season. So we'll see about that. I do think that this team should be better offensively, more dynamic. I think finally Andy Weidel, the assistant GM, has sufficiently loaded up at the line of scrimmage, specifically the offensive line, that it should not just be— people, there's a weird psychological or sociological thing that happens in the QB league where the, where the fans have a hard time really pouring it on the QB. And so it can't be the QB's fault because it's Aaron Rodgers and he's a Hall of Famer. And a first ballot and look at all the great things he's done. It's got to be the offensive line's fault. That's what stinks. That's where they've been let down. You know, if you believe in advanced analytics and their ability to assess the quality of an offensive line, they have the Steelers last year in the upper half of the league. And I suspect it's going to be even better this year.

Michael Pittman comes along, Jeremy Bernard. I think that they're in better shape than they were a year ago. And the defense should also be good. And I think better because of Patrick Graham. Here's the thing I think that is really strange, that is underrated or undercovered about the whole Tomlin press conference whenever it was, 2, 3 weeks ago, to introduce him as the new Sunday Night Football analyst. He said, yeah, it just made sense because we haven't really done anything in the playoffs lately. And I know that, uh, I think it was Jason McCourty said, look at all that Tomlin has done with the lousy rosters he's had. He's really he pulled them up higher than they deserve to be. And I have championed the idea that Mike Tomlin is the greatest floor raiser of the century, but he also imposed a ceiling on how far the Steelers could go. So I guess this leads me to the idea— do you buy the idea? And I guess first of all, specifically to answer this question, as we talk wins and losses, I always say I, I'm not big on advocating, hey, you should spend your money because I think this is a good bet.

Two exceptions. One, every Super Bowl you should bet on a safety because it's fun. The safety is in play to the last snap of every Super Bowl, and it pays out like a yo 11 does on the craps table. It's a fun bet to make around the Super Bowl. One. And two, the Steelers are always going to go over. They're always going to go over their season win total. What do I— I can complain as much as anybody about this and that, and I can nitpick, but one thing I have always known is that they're going to go over their season win total. Right now it's at 8.5. Half, at even money no less, just like it was last year. Um, I don't understand what goes on here. But then I had to remind myself, oh, you reflexively take the over with the Steelers because of Mike Tomlin. Does that still exist with Mike McCarthy? How say you?

Well, I think when it comes to Aaron Rodgers, it's a saying that's in entourage: once a star, always a threat. So I think fans want to believe that their guy can put it together for one last run into the sunset, especially Rodgers, because he already announced this is his last season. So it's like this is the big hurrah, the last goodbye. And he has the old ball coach, the guy he won the Super Bowl with. He can make a play and the team's going to save and culture and we're the Steelers. So they're going to think that. But I think really it's just like, how do we put this together one more time? You know, how, how can we get the best, the last vestiges of Rodgers? I don't know, though.

I mean, of course not. Well, the irony is Yeah, but the irony is with McCarthy versus Tomlin is I think— I know that I'd rather have in the year of the Lord 2026 Mike McCarthy as my head coach than Mike Tomlin. I think Mike Tomlin more or less kind of like sees that what he's doing is— has not worked. And as I have said for 2 years as one of his greatest supporters, whether you agree with that statement or not. I have in fact been one of his most consistent supporters, is the idea that, um, that he is outmoded, that his approach is not working at this point in the pro football cycle, in the Super Bowl era and all the rest of that, and treating quarterbacks like an afterthought. You know, the roster is good, and Omar Khan and Andy Weidel deserve credit for having built that up, but it's also a little bit easier to do when you specialize to the extent that we're not going to focus on the quarterback. We're going to flesh out this roster, we're just not going to address the most important position. It's sort of like celebrating Dennis Rodman as the greatest rebounder and defensive player you've ever seen.

Well, yeah, he's not doing anything on the offensive side of the floor. He's not attempting to be involved offensively outside of attacking the glass. So it's easier to do well in other areas when you just completely eliminate one of the dimensions means that is essential to success for your team, right? I mean, yeah, picking up what I'm laying down.

I just think my, my fear with McCarthy is like he burns out really fast, and it's just, what do you want to be as the Steelers? Like, do you want to be a team that bottoms out? And there's a legitimate risk that with Mike McCarthy it's ended ugly in a couple places. And I guess he never really like bottomed out, bottomed out, but it ended bad with the Cowboys. It wasn't pretty at the end in Green Bay either. And aren't you kind of afraid, like, Dave, like, okay, this is the last year with Rodgers. Obviously nobody seems to know what the plan is after that. You have to imagine they'll draft a quarterback or they'll just keep going for these stopgaps after. Don't you get a little afraid of like being the Detroit Red Wings who made the playoffs for 26 straight years and were trying at the very end just to keep making the playoffs just to say we keep making the playoffs? Like, and then have bottomed out and have missed the playoffs for the last 9, 10 years now. Well, I don't know. Do you get afraid that the Steelers will keep trying to keep up this no, you know, no losing seasons, all winless seasons or whatever it is, and eventually you'll just bottom out and won't return to the playoffs for 10 years?

For the record, I think that that— talk about overrated, underrated— overstated is that that is something that matters to Art Rooney II or anyone else in the building. I think that is the result of always trying to fuel the playing at 30,000 feet and never take a season off. The result of that has been no losing seasons because the roster is good enough and Tomlin is a coach who can get you, as I say, to a high floor. The, the, the issue has become obviously after nearly a decade without a playoff win, that what is the ceiling on this team and is it worth it to not to just never take your foot off the gas? That's why I advocated for Mike McCarthy. Why I— or not advocated when they announced him as the hire. I embraced it because specifically where they are, they are in need of transitioning to the only position that matters and developing that guy for the next 15 years. And Mike McCarthy is better suited to do that than Mike Tomlin was, obviously. And when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong, like Jerry Orbach at the end of Dirty Dancing.

I did not anticipate Mike McCarthy needing a year to sort of show some success, and now there are some whispers And I wonder where they're coming from. I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. Because that building did not used to leak, but now there are whispers once again, as we've heard in the last couple of years of Mike Tomlin whispering that was an Art II pick and Omar Khan whispering that was a Mike Tomlin pick, and it never used to come out, but now it's that Drew Aller was maybe more of an Art II pick than he was a Mike McCarthy pick. Um, either way, I hope I hope that Mike McCarthy is enthusiastic about Drew Aller's potential because here's what I don't believe can happen. Yes, you can do something that ultimately is self-defeating to the roster and its chances of success as injuries happen and the season wears on, which is keep all 4 quarterbacks. You're not going to keep Aaron Rodgers, Mason Rudolph, who has to be the backup if you— I disagree with this sentiment of the Steelers, but the Steelers perceive themselves as Super Bowl contenders. So if that's the way you're approaching things, if that's your, your thought process, you do not turn it over if the old man gets hurt to either Will Howard, the 6th-round draft pick, or Drew Aller, the project.

Because Steelers fans must get comfy with this idea: one or both of those guys might end up being viable starters in the NFL, but as it stands now, they're both crapshoots. They are both the equivalent of rolling a hard 4. You're not— I mean, the 7 is way more likely to come up than either one of those guys being a viable starter for for you, never the— let alone a high-end starter for you. But I do think Mike McCarthy is equipped to maybe get one of those guys there. I do expect, and maybe I'll be proven wrong, I think Will Howard's going to end up being the odd man out because they need Mason Rudolph as the backup in the short term to Mason— to Aaron Rodgers, which is again what I'm talking about with self-defeating and why it might be better for them to take a season off. Because now right out of the gate you have to give up a guy who at least they say out loud they believe in. Will Howard, Andrew Allard turning into quarterbacks, you're going to have to give up one of them in all likelihood because you signed the 43-year-old man to be your quarterback this year.

So that is already an indication or proof that things that they're building towards the future is not absolute because they're worried about right now and backing up Aaron Rodgers, who as we've already seen has a habit of getting hurt this late in his here. Um, last question for you is this one, fellas. Do you think Mike Tomlin is rooting against the Steelers this year?

No, I think he has like too many friends in the organization. I don't see—

you think so? Yeah. I, I, I think this is one of my favorite questions to ask people involved with teams for a long time. I, I, I, I asked Brian Urlacher that after he retired. You want the Bears to do well this year? It's like, yeah, of course, of course. I have a lot of friends on the But you don't want them to go to the Super Bowl without you, right? That would be embarrassing for you if the year you leave they're better without you, right? He's like, oh yeah, I don't want them going to the Super Bowl. That's got to be Mike Tomlin's head, right?

So, so by this logic, the Vikings felt terrible.

Imagine how bad that would be for Mike Tomlin. How do you— I really think—

The Vikings felt terrible his last year.

If the Steelers go to the Super Bowl and win it this year, do you still then make a case for Mike Tomlin as a Hall of Famer? Because it does kind of make it a little bit murkier, right?

I, uh, no. Yeah, you absolutely make the case. Yes, of course. He, he coached 18 seasons, he won a Super Bowl, and he never had a losing record. But you're picking up what I'm laying down, right? I get what you're saying.

Yeah, it's the, it's the like cynical fan.

It's right, it's the Belichick only was ever that because of Brady thing, you know what I mean? Like Brady went on and won a Super Bowl.

It's like, it's like they say that like Russell Wilson was a Hall of Famer but then he played himself out of Hall of Fame because he's been so—

well, I got great news for you, Coach T. The Steelers ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. All right, listen, I think we've said enough, at least this week. We will be back as soon as Tuesday. If you haven't found it yet, please correct that and find it ASAP. We continue to kibitz, and then we put the leftovers up there for you on Tuesdays, um, on YouTube. Football America is where you can find that. Subscribe if you would do us a solid. Leave us a comment while you're at it and subscribe to the audio podcast. We'll be back one week from today. In the meantime, make sure you're checking out, uh, the Dan Lebatard Show. I'm on there every Friday, and all the great stuff on the Lebatard Network. Until next time, for my fellow football Americans, thank you. Our football— for our fellow football Americans, I think that's what I meant to say. Yeah, that's what I said. It's been a thin slice of heaven.