Transcript of OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

Coming up, NBA Cup, NBA, and a lot of NFL next. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did disclosure, which is now 1 of the strangest movies of 19 nineties. It's now kind of a comedy, as weird as that sounds. Me, Van Laith, and Big Waz, we broke it all down.

And, you can watch it as well on the Ringer movies YouTube channel. Speaking of YouTube channels, we launched our Ringer TV channel that has the prestige TV podcast, The Watch. We're gonna do some some fun shorter videos on there and, a lot of the archives we have from the TV episodes we've done. So go check that out and subscribe. We're gonna be experimenting a lot more video podcasts on all the Spotify feeds too for, prestige and for the watch and for my podcast and for the rewatchable, so stay tuned.

If you like listening to podcasts on Spotify, you'll be able to watch the videos as well as we keep going heading to the end of 2024 into 2025 coming up. We waited for these 2 NBA Cup games to end on Tuesday because, especially OKC Dallas had to see, what was going on there. Wanted to break it down. So I reserved almost like you could reserve an Uber black car or something. I reserved Dave Jacoby and Kirk Goldsberry to be on call after the NBA cups, so they're gonna join me.

And then Craig Horbeck and Kyle Braton and I, Kyle and I did a rewatchables that, we recorded for later this month. And then I made him stick around yesterday, and me and Craig and Kyle just talked about NFL, and it went a whole bunch of directions. I had a great time. So this is a 3 man podcast all the way through with 2 different 3 man teams. It's all next.

First, our friends from Projet. Alright. We're taping this. It is, almost 9 o'clock Pacific time. Dave Jacoby stayed up late on the East Coast.

Kurt Goldsberry, sloppy seconds we're getting you today because you were doing some alt casting. Hopefully, you have enough, energy momentum back. Guys, I'm gonna start here. OKC beats Dallas. Jacoby, is OKC like a borderline lock for you in the west, or is there somebody else you're afraid of?

Because the more I watch them, the more I just wonder who beats them in the west.

It's the defense. It's just, it's, I've, it's on a different level than every other team. I don't want to play against this team. You can just see the frustration on the body language of the Mavs. They can't throw basic passes without being harassed.

Like, you remember that, like, lively rebound he got and the cruiser just knocked it out of bounds? It's just like, what do you it's just annoying. They're just swarming wasps and it's so frustrating because I was rooting for the Mavs because I wanted a close game and it's just impossible to do anything against them. It's awful.

What do you think, Goldsberry?

Yeah. They're the clear favorite now. And and I know Dallas is gonna sit here and say, oh, we didn't have PJ Washington, and we beat them last year, and this, and I I it fine. They should be confident. But from what I'm seeing, Bill, their net rating, their defensive rating, like Jacoby just said, and then the eye test, oh my god.

Yeah. Luca threw a lob. I think it was to Lively near the end of the game that he's thrown a 100 times, and all

of a sudden there was 2 Thunder guys, and

they were playing small and they intercepted it. I think they had 12 steals, 31 points off turnovers. But more importantly, they just frustrate the hell out of everybody. And I feel like they're so far and away better than anything else I'm seeing in the West through the Q1 of the season that, yeah, I'm gonna say they're the favorite to come out of the Western Conference.

FanDuel agrees with you, but the odds for the OKC Thunder in the west, I thought they'd be a minus, but they're plus 1 90 in the west. And I they just seem too athletic and too fast for maybe any team except the Celtics. Because I think at least the Celtics it's the perimeter guys. Like, you you watch Dallas, and Dallas was on a good run. They won 11 and 12.

They really felt like they were starting to turn into something. And they just look slow tonight compared to OKC. You put Luka, you put Kyrie, you put, Klay Thompson, Najeeb Barshaw, who's really good in the first half. Those are good players. Those are guys this is the top 5 team in the league.

And OKC just seemed faster and younger and more athletic. And, Luca I don't know. What was going on with Luca Jacoby? What was your take?

1 of the things that analysts always say about Luca is, like, you can't speed him up. You can't speed him up. There's a part of me who's like, hey, Luca. Can you speed up? Like, you know?

It's like, Oh, you can't speed him up. He's always at his own pace. He's like, Cool, cool, cool. How about you like move a little bit off the ball? Like there's a couple possessions.

He was just like in the corner. Like he's kinda getting that James Harden off ball energy. They're like, Oh, someone else has the ball so I'm just gonna stand here with my arms at my sides, like straight up and down. It's like it was a frustrating Luca day. They were doubling him early which I think was smart.

Because Because they doubled him early and kinda got the ball out of his hands and didn't let him catch a rhythm until the second half for, like, a brief spurt.

You know what, though? I still think they're the number 2 team in the West for me if I had to say who can actually make the finals. I still have Dallas second. I don't think this is a great matchup for them. And I was trying to think of, like, the rock paper scissors thing with the West.

I don't know if you guys saw the OKC Houston game. Maybe it was 10 days ago. Houston, I think, is the team in the West that can go toe to toe on this, like, crazy, young, hungry pitbull, just speed, athleticism all over the place. I think that's the only way, in the west. Nobody's gonna overpower them.

There's not gonna be, like, obviously not the Lakers, but the LeBron AD type situation where it's just, oh my god. They just got bully balled. They got out rebounded by 10 rebounds. I don't see that happening this year. I almost feel like you have to beat them with what they do.

Is there anybody else you see, Kirk?

Houston, I think, you know, we'll see tomorrow if they can beat Golden State here in this quarterfinal. I don't see anybody else because Minnesota, I think, coming in to the season, Bill, was that other team for me, and they have just been off to an awkward start. So I don't see the Randall piece really fitting in there to put them in that category. And Dallas was the hottest team in the league, period, before tonight. And I I think they clearly deserve number 2 status.

They won the conference. They beat this team in the playoffs last year in 6 games. So I think until further notice, it's it's OKC, Dallas, then Houston. And then, actually,

I don't know why I put football.

3rd or just to beat OKC? Would you just have Houston 3rd in general?

I love Houston at 3. And I wanna see what they do in this tournament. I know some people think it's silly, but I think this is a a catapult for them. If they beat Steph and Steve Kerr tomorrow, and they get to Vegas and they play the Oklahoma City Thunder, I think it really starts to feel like they're not just a flash in the pan. Like like OKC, Bill, their defensive indicators scream contender.

Yeah.

They they are not just like Orlando. Orlando OKC and Houston, 3 young pain in the ass defenses that nobody wants to play against. And Eme has has really beat has has really built that team up. So I would put them at 3. I don't know if there's somebody I'm forgetting.

The other thing well, you're forgetting Memphis because and we have to mention that because Jacoby does a podcast twice a week on the mismatch with somebody who's like, how the fuck could Kirk Goldsberry not mention Memphis for 8 minutes there? What the fuck is he doing?

That might be intentional. I might have heard that he fast forwards the minutes, that I speak on this show.

Is that true? He did he does the 15 second fast forward. Memphis right now has 5th offensive rating, 7th defensive rating. The per 36 stats are crazy for them too. Like Ja, who's really only playing, like, 28 minutes a game, but he would be 2811 if he played 36.

Brandon Clark looks great. So from a speed standpoint, maybe. But I'd kinda like to see those guys play for 20 games, Jacoby. And I I'll tell you this. They're dining a lot off that Celtics game on Saturday where the Celtics had played 57.

They'd played Milwaukee the night before and it's, like, heated. My my dad was saying it was like a like a 3rd round playoff game kind of intensity. And then the next day, the Celts have to run it back, and they had no legs. They were dead, and Memphis kinda steamrolled them. But I I don't think they should take too much out of that, Jacobs.

They're I don't think any of these teams are are should would be a favorite in the series against the Thunder. And watching the Thunder tonight, watching them just fly around, and watching SGA be like a true go to weapon on offense the way that Yeah. The some of the Rockets don't have, to be honest with you. And then every once in a while, they cut to this guy in a velour sweatsuit in the 2nd row with a big beard who was played, like who looked like he leveled up. Chet, obviously, I'm talking about.

It's like he's coming back. Like, we've they they have he looks

like a major weapon. UFC fighter. Like, he's like this UFC middleweight hanging out outside the octagon waiting waiting to see who's gonna fight in the next UFC card. But it's Chet Holmgren. He's 7 foot 1.

Yeah. But it it I think that people sleep on the fact that they're doing all of this without him. And a lot of a lot of teams are missing players, but he's, like, I don't know, 2nd or 3rd best player. Probably their 3rd best player.

Yeah. We haven't seen their I mean, what we did get to see tonight, especially, was the Hartenstein piece, the the whole the kinda rebounding center rim protection guy that they just haven't had. Like, we were talking about some of the matchups with them. 1 of the things that's interesting with Houston is Houston's 1st in the league in rebounding. They're almost averaging 50 rebounds a game.

But I you know what? Sometimes I like the counting stats. I know the I know the fancy kids. They love the advanced stats, and Kirk's got his efficiency map. And I I I love all that stuff too, but sometimes I like to know who gets the most rebounds every game.

And Houston's getting 50 a game. So to Jacoby's point, Kirk, like, I do feel like they need Chet and Hartenstein in a Houston series. But the flip side with Houston is I still don't really know who their go to guy is. I watch them game to game, and it's like because they're they're my favorite league pass team. And it's like Yeah.

Really? We're doing the Fred Van Vweets step back? That's our that's our shot with 50 seconds left? They I don't think they know. Like, they'll go to Strangoon sometimes depending on the matchup, but it's kinda like a last shot by committee team, which makes me nervous in the playoffs.

Yeah. I think that's valid, and I think that we went too long on talking about what we saw from SGA tonight. And I think he really is the differentiator in the top of the west because he is legitimately the MVP candidate over there right now. When you look at those 3 teams we talked about, you throw in Memphis, maybe Ja Morant, but SGA is on a different plane than what we saw tonight from him on both sides of the court, nearly scoring 40 points and then just putting up crooked numbers.

Made some 3 others. 5 for 9 from 3?

5 for 9 from 3, and then just sets the tone on defense too. Like, he is a truly, truly impressive 2 way superstar, Bill Simmons. And I think no other team has that. And if it does get to sort of crunch time at the end, you know that the guy who has the ball in his hands can score in an isolation situation. By the way, he's isolating more than anybody else in the league.

Yep. And he he Houston doesn't have that. That is fair to say. And I think that is 1 of the things that separates the Oklahoma City Thunder from everybody else in the west right now is that their best player can be that guy at the end of a big game like we saw, tonight.

Houston does have Dillon Brooks doing Dillon Brooks stuff. I think SGA would be the best guy in the west if Jokic wasn't averaging a 56.1 a game, points, rebounds, and assists. He's in the 56 club right now. It's like him and Wilt Chamberlain. It's just the 2 of them.

They're hanging out. That's it.

Who do you have who do you have in the MVP ladder right now? Just between those 2. Just

because I think

it's the

greatest the the greatest statistical season of of, our adult lifetime.

I agree. But does it matter to you that OKC is emerging as a clear number 1, and they're sort of dropping down to maybe play and status? Does that factor into to the professor Simmons' model?

Yeah. It's it's early. Right? I mean, Denver hasn't won 2 straight games for a month. I don't know what's going on with Jamal Murray.

Jokic, I promise you, isn't like, oh, cool. I scored a 104 points this weekend. That's not what he's about, but I don't know if he has a choice. I wanna save it you know, if it's 47, 48 wins is kind of a cutoff for me. But if you're a 6 seed or a 7 seed, I think it gets tough if there's some some real candidates.

I think Tatum's a candidate. I SGA is absolutely a candidate. Jacob's, I think that thing that would really clinch it for SGA having an argument, maybe even becoming a favorite, is if OKC just becomes like a 65 win team, which I think is in play as hard as the west is. It seems like an accident when they lose. I'm always surprised when they lose.

Right?

I I think 65 might be a little high, but I think they're gonna run away with the number 1 seed in the Western Conference, which is obviously the the stronger conference. And,

they're 19:05 right

now for the record. I try to stay away from the MVP stuff, you know what I mean? This day on December. And then in early December? Yeah.

Yeah. But, I, what Jokic has done has been very impressive. And what he did this weekend, as you mentioned, I'm sure he's like, I don't want to do I don't want to take 39 shots in a basketball game. He's like, That's tough. You were

like that, Jakobes. When you were taking a lot of shots, you were never happy.

I know.

I know.

You wanna do no looks, and you wanted to do good entry passes and just play team basketball. That's like Jokic.

Exactly. Exactly.

Hey. What did he do this weekend? Lose to the Wizards? Is that what caught your eye?

Lost to the Wizards. Lost to the Wizards and beat the Hawks. Yeah. He scored a 104 points.

That's true.

Killed the Hawks.

It is crazy. It is crazy how how little he has around him.

The What really jumped out at me about those 2 games was the Westbrook Jokic connection. Like, Westbrook was just feeding him. Westbrook was like, the best player on the planet is on my team.

Yeah.

Let me just get him in a position to score. It was really impressive. I was impressed by Westbrook this weekend.

Yeah. Because Murray is kinda like Jokic's basketball wife. And with Westbrook now, he's kinda flirting with the office with the office assistant who just kinda moved into the office. And it's like, woah, Jokic Jokic just went to get coffee with Westbrook. Does Murray know about this?

That's how it's been. That second game. The the SGA thing, I always say this every year. It's just crazy to me after going to some of those games when he was a rookie that this is the guy he is now. That he's in a game with Luca where he just completely obliterates Luca and Luca's team.

They have no answer for him. If I'm if I'm Dallas Kirk, who's my guy that's gonna be guarding SGA if I'm seeing them in round 2 or round 3? Who's my stopper for SGA?

You know, I think PJ Washington is a huge part of that

equation. Yeah.

And I don't know if if that's the correct answer, but it's not gonna be Kyrie, and it's not gonna be Luka. I think we all know that. And then they have the big and you know, I think PJ would be my my answer. But, dude, who can guard this guy? Nobody can guard this guy.

So Dallas, I think, beat them last year, on both sides of the ball. And I think that it was really PJ, who, if you look back at the stats from that series, did

a lot on

both sides.

Yeah. He made it a lot of threes and yeah.

So I think I'm hard I can't talk myself into what I saw from Dallas beating Oklahoma City, but I have very, very, very big recency bias right now because of what we just watched. Yeah. I think if I zoomed back out, 7 game series yeah. If PJ is gonna be 20 and 10, like, kinda like he was I think he was 18 and 8 in that series, and shooting threes and playing great defense, and they have their bigs, and Luka and Kyrie, obviously, at the end of games, they could they could win 4 games against that team if ever they broke their way.

Last year, they were too small, and they almost won the series anyway, OKC. And it came down to that play in the corner when SGA, the the foul when he played perfect defense, and they lucked out with that 1. But they also didn't have Hartenstein last year, and Chet got overpowered in that series and just

Or Caruso. And Caruso was great tonight. He was great tonight.

A different team, and they yet they almost beat them last year. So I'm feeling great if I'm okay. See, the other thing and who knows? Like, Shams wrote this piece today about, you know, could Jimmy Butler get traded? Zach LaVine.

I know Jacoby has some thoughts on it. I'm like, OKC to me is the perfect type of team that could make trades because they have all these movable contracts, cheap contracts. They can add stuff together. They're they're not getting crushed by the apron. They have a 1,000,000 picks they could trade.

I am so confused by the trade rules, and I've read everything. And you as you guys know, I'm the trade mister Shane Picasso. Like, I take this seriously. I am just absolutely flummoxed by these rules. And even that thing today I read where it's like, yeah, Jimmy Butler.

It's like, I'm not sure anybody can add Jimmy Butler. I from what I understand about these rules, it feels like they made him too hard, Jacoby. And I'm gonna be useless at the trade deadline. I don't like it.

Zach LaVine and Jimmy Butler, I don't think will be traded. And I think to to bring Jimmy Butler, you have to match the salary. So you're giving up, whatever, $40,000,000 worth of players to bring in Jimmy Butler who wants a new contract. Yeah. And has a $52,000,000 player option that he might exercise.

It just seems like, who is Jimmy Butler away from contending? And if you're the Thunder, you're gonna add a player later. Chet Holmgren, your your 3rd best player and your 2nd big. Like, if you were the Thunder, why would you ever even think about picking up a phone call from Miami?

Well, you're

not doing that. Golden State's the team. I think it would be Golden State. Just I know Are

they doing Beller away from contending?

Well, I think Schaumb's put in he had the Texas teams. San Antonio would be super interesting for that, but I think they would have to resign him, and I don't know if that's on their timetable. But Golden State, I think, has real urgency with, you know, I I'm not just a body language guy, but I'm also the trade detective. And I did notice this weekend, they're all of a sudden, they're pushing Kuminga. They're they're putting in the starting lineup.

Draymond Green's like, you can have my spot. When has Draymond Green ever been this stagnant, miss? Just there's a lot of red flags where I was like, What are you guys doing? Are you Almost feels like you're trying to showcase Kuminga for somebody. No.

No. Take my spot. Draymond Green, the guy who punched Jordan Poole. Now he's mister magnanimous. Take my spot.

I don't know. It's something that feels like the team because they're on a specific window with Curry. Right? If you feel like you can contend for a title with Curry at age 36, he's already wearing down over the fry 1st 5, 6 weeks. Butler makes sense for them.

Kirk, you're nodding.

Yeah. I think they've been sort of showcasing players all year. I think it helps explain why Steve Kerr's been playing 12 players a night because the oh, look at all these guys. Like, you could read into it, and I think they're 1 player short of So

you're saying they're like the farmer's market? Yeah. Come on over. We got pistachios.

We got Kyle

Anderson. Over here. Organic. There's some chicken. Got chicken out here.

Free salad?

Yeah.

It's a full chicken, some fruit.

Yeah. Farm farm raised, Kyle Anderson over here. But I but I think, then but Jimmy Butler to Houston intrigues me too because of something you said earlier, Bill, which is, like, who's their guy at the end of the game? We don't have that guy. Yeah.

And and Jimmy's from Texas. You could see Eme talking himself into Jimmy Butler. I'm not sold on it. The other thing that I would say is the trade machine Picasso is coming into hard times. This new CBA

I don't like that.

Has pretty much cut the number of teams that could make a trade into half, if not more, because so many teams are limited into what kinds of trades, the financial rules, what they can and can't send out or take back are so, punitive or prohibitive that just the trade market itself has shrunk. And I think that's going to sort of limit the amount of Picasso ing you can do, between December 15th February.

I think it's gonna, like, really, really harm it. But so, selfishly, I'm mad because I love making up fake trades, and they're just gonna be super unrealistic. But Jacobs, there's this flip side to it where I kinda like it, where guys who are in situations they might not love. It like, to me, it's like if if we're driving, you know, like, say Jacoby or dry you have your 3 kids in the car, and you're like, we're driving all the way to to, Washington DC, and we're not stopping. But your kids are like, dad, can we stop?

Can we can we get something? Can we stop? Stop. And they just wear you down and you eventually stop. This all these apron rules are basically like the kids are trapped in the car for the entire ride now.

Like, if you're bringing an Ingram, it's like, I wanna get off. Can we stop? You're like, can't. Sorry. Can't trade.

Nobody wants it. Until you

get to Uncle House's house. That gets Uncle House's house.

But everyone's trapped in the car and you kinda have to make the best of it and this is what the NBA used to be like. You're like, hey. You're stuck on your team.

It's also like the Jimmy Butler, thing from Shams earlier this morning was like, Oh, here are the teams that he wants to go to. I mean, it's like, cool. Right. It's kinda like the NFL. It's like, Go find yourself a trade.

Go ahead. Find 1. Right. Just because you want to go to those teams doesn't mean there's a deal between us and those teams. And to put that out publicly, it's like it almost feels like they don't really understand the implications of the new CBA.

It's not happening.

Jim, that's a great point, dude. Like, the the whole trade demand ecosystem, the whole the whole the whole science of the trade demand from the player's perspective has to get updated too, because you can't just say, oh, I wanna trade and make me make sure it's the phoenix or whatever.

But look at Zach LaVine's situation. Like, he's playing well for Zach LaVine. Like, he's 22, 5, and 5. I've watched a couple games where in the Q4, like, he's, you know, as as good as he's ever looked. And he could've checked out or been like, well, I'm gonna nurse an injury until you guys trade me, but he's not gonna get traded, so he might as well make the best of it.

It's it's a little reminds me of what happened in football. Or in football, there's, like, never trades. Right? Nobody's like, we traded our left tackle today for somebody's starting outside linebacker. It's just everybody's kinda stuck on their team until the end of the year.

And I maybe that's what basketball is becoming, which is bad for podcast content, but it's maybe better for basketball. Right?

I think so. And I think there's 1 there's 1 more layer of it, which is, like, the the the Moneyball era of of pro basketball is so intense. Like, we know so much about how bad bad contracts are, particularly in this new CBA, that those were the contracts the teams used to be able, hey, take this guy. Maybe you can deal with the contract for a year or 2 and win a title. No.

Like, I was trying to think of who the best team with a terrible contract is, and there aren't many. And so it's like, okay. Do you want this LaVine deal or this Beal deal? The answer to that question is smaller than ever, not to mention the point we already made. The rules to get that player in a trade are more sort of strict than ever.

So, yeah, I think we're in a brand new era, and it is bad for podcast content.

It might be Jamal Murray. Like, his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. Well, if he's gonna look like he's looked I mean, there's some other ones like Nurkic. I'm sure Phoenix would be dying to trade him in 5 seconds. Right?

But, yeah, if you look at the the best 3 teams, the Celtics, OKC, and Cleveland, none of them really have, like, the, oh, man. I wish we didn't have this contract guy. All the contracts are pretty good. But I also feel like seems like people knew this era was coming, and the smarter teams were very careful. Even that OKC deal for Hartenstein, they overpaid him for 3 years based on what his market was.

But it's actually a smart deal. That's how they got him, and it's not gonna kill them down the road. Unlike how Juan Sotto's gonna kill the Yankees, in the last 5 years of his deal when he's just destroying them for 60,000,000 a year. Or the Mets. I met the Mets.

Let's take a break. I have some NBA Cup questions for you, big picture, whether we actually like this or not. That's next. The NBA season is flying in FanDuel's America's number 1 sportsbook. Once you catch all the action right now, FanDuel giving everyone 3 months of NBA League Pass.

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Jacobs, it's year 2. Here's my case for maybe it doesn't work. I didn't want the Celtics to make the quarter finals or semifinals and have to play the 2 extra games. I wanted the rest for them. So that tells me fundamentally, maybe this doesn't a 100% work, that I wanted my team not to make it.

Okay. That's a fair point and I totally understand that thinking. I think the cup works but I'll address your question and I'll say this. How upset are the Mavs right now after being on the road for like a month, they're having everyone be sick and they're like, Oh, we don't have to go to Vegas? And we get, what, 7 days off in the middle of the year to sort of get healthy and and Like, I I think the Mavs are on the plane and be like, Yeah, it kinda sucks.

I wish we won. But, I don't know. Like, I don't think they're like really bummed tonight.

Yeah. It looks like a 100,000 we didn't get.

Yeah. But it's 4 teams. To me, it's 4 teams like the Hawks, the Rockets, and the Thunder. Like, I think that it's really for up and coming teams to get sort of like 1 and you're done experience. So I don't think it's broken, but I think there are certain teams like the Celtics coming off a championship, like, what we get we get to win the the Emirates Cup.

Like, no, I'm good. I'll take the time off.

What do you think, Kirk?

I think it's working, but I think those are valid points. In fact, I talked to 1 Western Conference executive who's like, oh, I'm kinda glad we don't have to go play at Oklahoma City tonight and maybe play Houston and Vegas, and like, I I think I'd much rather have the time off or these lesser opponents. I think the league has something. I also think it's really cool that we had these 2 games tonight, and the whole league was watching them. And I wish we had more of that, that sort of community feel where it's not just like league pass overload, where these games are meaningful in December.

Like, let's not forget, like, this time of year is really hard. I do think, and I think we talked about this last time, they should use the divisions for the groups and just bring some spice and meaning back to those groupings of teams. I think there's some little stuff. I'm glad we have it, but I think it is fair to say that some teams are kinda not not disappointed they're not going to Vegas this weekend.

I know Embiid's disappointed. He wanted to get those 2 extra games in. I like the NBA Cup, but I think that's the criticism. I was thinking, should there be a couple other things that you win if you win beyond, like, just the money? Like, what if you could get unaproned for the rest of the season?

I don't know why the players would care about that, but the fans, I think, would be, like, the Phoenix Suns all of a sudden. I'd be like, wait. We're we're out of the lock, separate apron for 3 months? It's like a get out of jail free card for the apron. What if you guaranteed the 6 playoff spot?

That's what I think they should do.

You can't fall lower than 6 if you win.

You gotta move it later this season then. Because, like, if you're locked into 6, like, what what are we doing?

Well, you could you could think about the season a little differently. It's an advantage. Right? You know you don't have to be in the playing game. You know you're going no lower than 6.

You can rest guys a little differently. Like, it's a real advantage for the season, I think, would be the appeal. But then if you're a team like Atlanta or even Houston, who's probably gonna be a top 6 team anyway, but I I think that would be pretty or Orlando who's losing their entire team to torn obliques. Like, you you kinda want the the 6 seed. I like that.

The other 1, the, that's that's really it. Those are the you could do a draft pick thing, but I don't know why the players on the team would care. It's like, oh, we've locked down the 15th pick.

It It'd be no. It would be like an insignificant draft pick. And it'd be like you get, like, an extra second rounder or something. It's like, okay. Great.

Yeah. Would Jacobs we both have the reality background. You, once upon a time, were the czar of reality TV. Is there a reality thing we could steal for this? Like, you win and you get to use that power to fuck over another team in some way that you could say?

I thought about it in that

And you use it by you get your cross, and it's like, the Celtics now lose in game 7 at home, and you just, like, stick them with some sort of terrible competitive disadvantage.

Do, like like a rule changes. Like, TJ would just come out at halftime and be like, alright, guys. Here here are the 4 point shots in these 3 circles.

Yeah. No corner threes.

I think they should use it as a testing ground for, like, rule changes. Like, I think that'd be kinda fun. If they're just like, no 3 point line and and not a 4 point line or there's no corner threes. I think that'd be fun. And I understand, like, there are reasons you couldn't do that but just while we're spitballing, I think sort of experimenting about rule changes or court changes you've been considering in these games because they are different, it could be a playground for that.

Yeah. To quit the Elam Ending. Wait. 1 more thing on that. Just to quit, I the Elam Ending would be great.

And I know they got rid of it from the all star game, Bill, but, like, tonight, the end of that, first game was, like, 25 minutes. The last Yeah. 2 or 3 minutes, and it bled into the 2nd game. It's like, what are we doing doing this free throw free throw thing? Like, just

let somebody win. NBA cup, quarter finals, semis, and finals are all elimending. We just hit a certain score and the game's over? I'm not that bad.

I mean, every pickup game we've ever played ends with a bucket, dude. And then we watch these free throw contests. The the worst 1 I saw this year was Celtics Cavs, and it was, like, 30 minutes. And it was back and forth, back and forth. And now because I I I always say this, the foul the team that's ahead is now fouling a lot of the time, so it's just adding to it.

We yeah. So I'm a big elamending guy, but I like Jacobi's idea. Make it feel special. Do something else. Elamending is the best I got for that 1.

Jacobi, would SGA be fun to play

with? Absolutely.

Fun to be play pickup with? Okay.

Because he's

Especially because he's doing

it like unassisted basket. So he it's not 1 of the situations where you don't feel needed.

I know. But but, like, here's the thing. But if you're, like, in a pickup game and you're down 6, you want SGA on your team so you stay on the court. You know

what I mean?

It's like, you like, you always you always associate guys you wanna play pickup with, guys that move the ball and get teammates involved and sort of, like, put

the ball on the spot.

And and yeah. But, like, but you have SGA just to stay on the court. Like, that's why he's good to play pickup.

Yeah. We had when we played, we had that 1 guy who was the stay on the court guy where we knew we would we basically just have to rebound and play defense, and he was gonna score 9 of the 11 points. I can't remember what his name was.

Jaylen Rose. I think it was Jaylen Rose.

Yeah. Jaylen. Jaylen. Jaylen was unfair.

He was unfair to play, to play it. Let's talk about, the other game and whether we believe in Milwaukee Bucks yet. I thought they played really well against the Celtics on Friday in a game that was about as intense as you get in December. There's no love lost between those 2 teams, Kirk Goldsberry. There's some Giannis, Jalen stuff.

There's some Giannis Al Horford stuff, I felt like. Tatum has a little bird in his saddle against him. I don't feel like anybody really likes playing against Dame that much. I always feel like people get annoyed by him. But that was a really intense game on Friday, but the Celts won.

But what struck me was I thought the Bucks hung with them and could've won the game. And now that Green and Prince have been getting them 3 point shooting, now that Portis, who looked like he was gonna be out of the league 1st month of the season, now he's back. Now they have Middleton back. Giannis is averaging at 32, 126. I still don't feel like they're at that top echelon and maybe not even in the second echelon, But they're at least lingering because of Giannis now.

Right? Is that would you would Yeah. I don't think they're lurking, but I would go lingering for them. Is that fair?

I think they're 11 and 3 in their last 14 games after starting 2 and 8. And what you just said, 1 of the sort of deep cut takes is, like, yeah, AJ Green, Gary Trent, Torian Prince, Bobby Portis, they're getting really efficient 3 point shooting from those dudes. And then Giannis stopped shooting threes. He stopped shooting threes. Today, he shot his first 3 in 6 games, I think.

He shot another 1 at the end of the game, but he'd gone 5 games without shooting a 3. He's attacking the rim, and then they're surrounding him with shooting. Tonight, they played a a smaller lineup. They took Brook out, and they put these aforementioned shooters. Khris Middleton's back in the in lineups.

Damian, obviously. Spacing starts at the rim. Giannis pressures the rim better than anybody in the league right now, and he can make passes. If they can make those shots, they're very good. The Bucks were always supposed to be this good.

The other thing weird was they were 218. Do I trust them to be better than the Boston Celtics? No. But it looks like they've righted the ship and look like they're a viable Eastern Conference contender now, because Giannis is putting up scoring title numbers, and they they're getting this 3 point shooting from the supporting cast, and and now they're they're whole. So they have Khris, Damian, and and Giannis.

They were supposed to be good.

I'm a little worried about the Lopez piece of it. He looked really old in the Celtic game, and I thought he was the biggest reason they lost. And it feels like there's a there's a Giannis, Portis, Shooters, and Dame. And whether Middleton's in that or not, we'll find out. But that seems to be probably their probably their most successful lineup, which is weird because Lopez was so essential to what they did.

I don't know Jacob's. I still don't feel like the Giannis Dame thing is perfect, And maybe it will never be, but I I it almost feels like Dame. Like, it's like, hey. Giannis isn't gonna play tonight, Dame. You're gonna have to take a lot of shots.

Like, I don't feel like he's shedding tears. You know what I mean? I don't feel like they've totally figured out yet, but they're kinda scotch taping it and duct taping it together now.

Body Language Doctor doesn't love that duo as much as I wanted to when he signed. But we always, like, I think people are critical of Dame. It's like, he scores 25.7 points a game and gets 7.5 assists a game. Like

And he's like 37% from 3. Yeah.

Like is that so bad? Like is that what are we being critical of really? And and you know, Derry Bird and Taurean Prince is shooting 54% from 3 on like 3.6 attempts or something. Like, it's not, it's not fake. Like, they're surrounding 2 of the biggest offensive weapons in the league with shooting.

Defensively, we can just pass over that. They're not stopping anybody.

It's just Yeah. When for, like, tate them against the Bucs, he's like, this is awesome. Sorry, Kirk. I interrupted you.

No. I was just saying when they were great when they won it all, they were great on defense. Like, this was a defensive juggernaut too with Brook and and Giannis protecting the paint, and then, you know, Drew and Chris, and the role players all seeming like, you know, these younger Thunder, Rockets teams that we're seeing, the more yeah. They were a great defense, and I don't see that happening. And for that reason, I'm out, to to to quote Mark Cuban on their ability to compete with Boston and maybe even Cleveland at the very top of the Eastern Conference.

Are you a believer? Eme said this, like, 3 weeks ago about he's like, if you look at all the teams that have won a title or made the finals, they're all, like, top 5 defense.

Yeah. And I think he's right.

I I I actually think it's that simple.

Yeah. And even tonight, Suggs had Dame in front of him and he dribbled between his legs like 4 times then just like shot a 3. And I was like, Suggs, that's Dane Lillard. Just put your shoulder down and go past him. In a key point, I was really disappointed in that particular possession because I think there's a reason that when Dame is guarding somebody that there's no screener.

There's a reason.

Right. Well, and then when he when Dame wasn't on him, he was getting the switch but, They were asking a lot from Suggs in that game. In fact, this is a good time to bring in Steve Sarutti for 2 seconds because, we have a very important Orlando Magic question. So at halftime, were you were you on Expedia or wherever looking for Vegas Hartford to Vegas tickets? Were you thinking about it?

You were, weren't you?

I definitely was. And it was like it was like I saw Gladiator 2 on Friday,

and I had really

low I had really low expectations for it, and I really enjoyed it. I I liked the movie. I don't know if we if it needed to be made. It was kind of the same as the first 1 just with, like, a new thing. I had really low expectations tonight.

Didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if we hit 90 points because I'm just don't know where the scoring comes from. And then, yeah, like, that first quarter happens, and I'm like, I'm in. This team's this team, they were gonna win the game. And, like, you get the halftime.

They kind of you know, I think they're down 1 at halftime, but anything's on the table. It just sucked because that Suggs injury in the Q3, they were, I think, down 1 at the time. He He goes out for a couple minutes. I think he comes back in. They're down 8, and they have to climb back the rest of the game to get there.

But without that, like, at the end of the day, the guys, like, when they're fully healthy, like, I think they're capable of beating anybody. They're capable of beating anybody. Yeah. It's not I'm not saying they'd be favored against any of these teams, but they are capable of beating anybody.

My friend, Sean Grandy, who is the radio guy for the Celtics, who's, I think, a good basketball kind of thinker with this stuff, he's Orlando is the team he's afraid of for the Celtics when they get everybody back because he thinks they're defensive upside. And they don't have Isaac tonight either.

Yep.

He thinks their defensive ceiling is the high like, some people would say it's Tibbs and Knicks, but I I just think it's gonna be too easy to get point. The Knicks are in weird position where it's their offense is probably gonna be more dangerous than their defense in the playoffs. But I think Orlando, so the case for them would be the defense giving Franz all those reps without Paolo, and now Suggs turning into, like, Russell Westbrook 2017 late, like, just doing everything on the on the on the magic. Jacoby, are you buying Sugg stock yet?

I bought a lot of Sugg stock, preseason because of defense. I didn't see this Suggs, but it is, I don't know. Gonzaga Suggs. It just seems like Paolo's playing so well, and then Franz steps up and plays so well, and then Franz is out, and now Suggs steps up and plays so if if Suggs has legit hurt hand, it's gonna be like, Mo Wagner scores 30 and 12 and 10. It's like, what is happening?

It just seems like someone on that team is gonna play like an all star no matter what happens.

Anthony Black is next if Suggs goes down. Yeah. I was nervous. You gotta get some k tape or whatever. Get his obliques taped up we can't get out.

There's some oblique, like, you know, like, you know, the epidemic breaking out in Orlando. But, yeah, when his thumb got her, I was, you gotta be kidding me. Because that's the thing about the NBA Cup. It was, like, cool. Like, this is fun and all.

But, like, if we're really gonna lose Suggs for extended period of time, like, pass on on the NBA Cup.

Well, the the other piece with the Orlando that's been interesting with these guys going out is I don't know. They took the they took the training wheels off Anthony Black a little bit. Yep. He got what's what's the what's the hairdo he's rocking these days? He he moves some hair to cuff around.

Yeah. And he's got there's, like, a little bun in the back. Totally different player.

Totally different player. I was

I was shot. New guy. Like, I I

didn't know who it was. Who's that? I got Anthony Black.

But there's a lot of stuff to like with him. And I don't really know what his ceiling is, and I'm sure when we get to, like, game 4 of a playoff series and he's in the corner, teams are gonna be like, go ahead. Take that. But, the fact that he's not a bust feels like a win, Sarutis.

So was kind of an uncharacteristic game from him. He's he was weirdly bad defensively tonight. He that he got lost, like, a couple of times, but he actually scored way more than you think he was, had assists, rebounds, and a lot of that was just, like, you know, because they just need an extra ball handler. I would say too, like, I'm not nervous. Like, the panic meter is not going off, but, like, $22,000,000 a year, like, KCP, 7 points, kinda kinda kinda hoping for more than that in in a situation where, you know, you kinda need a veteran to step up.

But, honestly, like, all these young guys, like, even like, Tristan Silva, like, he's he started tonight, he started a lot of games since Franz and and Paolo have been out, and he's been fine. And I really like the 2 big lineup. But when Wendell playing the 4, kind of an like, it's it's it can't really work whenever when they're fully healthy. But in this version of the team without Isaac, he's actually really good at getting those spots, like, kinda top of the key, throwing those lob passes, like, being a facilitator. I think he had the best plus, plus, minus on the Magic tonight.

He was awesome.

Kirk, what do you see for the Magic?

Yes. Rudy should be thrilled, man. I was talking to Vince Carter and Jayla when we were watching this game, and we're like, holy crap. Like, these guys are gonna be a problem, and I'm with Sean Grandy. I don't think anybody wants to play this team in the playoffs.

I'm not saying they would beat the Celtics, but they're a pain in the ass to score on.

Yeah.

And and like Oklahoma City, they're a pain in the ass to pass on and get rebounds on. I love the 2 big lineup. I love that it's Moe and Goga and Wendell. Like, they're playing bigger than almost any and Da Silva too when he's at the 3. They're just big.

And, yeah, the biggest point here is they didn't have 3 or 4 of their normal rotation pieces. Gary Harris, Jonathan Isaac, but obviously

Gary Harris.

Feels familiar. Paolo and Franz who, you know, torn oblique club, like

Yeah.

Stand up, like and as a holder of SuggsCoin for years now, you guys should be thrilled. I know you didn't get the result tonight, but it looks like you're built for war for a long time, and you're the Orlando Magic. You guys should be thrilled.

And 2 2 games you didn't have to play. It's not like the NBA Cup was gonna do anything for you. It's 2 more games where nobody's getting hurt. Right? Oh, Cody's got time out.

I I I hold on. This is this is just too much, like, too much for me. They don't have a player that can hit a 3 point shot in 2024. They don't have 1. So can we just, like, address that?

They don't have a player that can hit a 3 point shot.

It's tough. 30 they're 30th in, 3 point shooting, 31%. They're 28th in corner threes.

Is that so scared to play them? I'm so scared to play them in the playoffs. Like, I'm

a big

shooting team in the league.

But Paolo, Suggs, and Franz are

all fine. They're all fine. Do that to Sarutti. He's got,

like these guys have torn obliques. I'm just kidding. We're just kidding on there. Shooting. See this team in the playoffs.

Like, I don't really I can't see this team in the playoffs. Like, I really

can't see this. Their defense is hard.

But I think those corner threes come from good movement elsewhere. Corner threes are created when their best offensive players are doing other shit somewhere else on the court. Those guys aren't playing, particularly their best offensive player. And now Franz isn't playing, who's also great at offense. So those are like indicator species.

Yes. There are 3 point shooting personnel Jacoby does lack. KCP is underwhelming, but some of these are sort of byproducts of the offense itself just not having its alpha and beta creators.

Oh, like how you use the alpha and beta. So Rudy, did you know where your oblique was 5 weeks ago?

No idea. I thought it was a leg injury. But I

get it beyond

part of your hip? Where did you think it was on your body?

I thought it was, like, an inner quad thing. I don't know.

Jacob, did you know what it was?

Yeah. Because they're called love handles. They're that's all you have to do. It's for us for athletes, they're called obliques. For us, they're called love handles.

That's what they're Right under right

under your real are your obliques. It's a love handle injury that is sweeping through the Magic locker room. Love handles.

I wonder if they even knew how to diagnose this in, like, the eighties. Like, like, Bob McAdoo had a torn oblique for an entire year and had no idea because he's like, ah, my side hurts. They're like, Bob, take some aspirin.

Slept on. Yeah.

But how did 2 guy I I know everyone's asking this, but it is fucking weird. How did 2 guys get the same injury? It's like a haunted house.

I don't understand it. The the I

guess, Ron said he didn't even he doesn't even know when he did it. He they they

he doesn't know that there's any point in the game. Plays, and he couldn't even know what the play was.

So maybe he doesn't even know where his oblique is either. He's like, what's her?

Really weird. Rank your 3 your 3 teams you're afraid of in the east. Boston, obviously, 1. Who's 2?

Cleveland and I guess I'm I guess I'm buying the Milwaukee's the Milwaukee Kool Aid or

Over the Knicks?

Oh, please.

Oh, die easy Knicks fan, Dave Jacoby, is upset.

No. And this maybe this is a little bit of a you just kicked our ass the other night and scared the crap out of me because if we had lost that game by 37, we would have been out of the NBA Cup. That would been 1 of the most embarrassing of my life.

It was very much on

the table

in the 3rd quarter. Yeah.

And against and against Tibbs, that's the 1 guy you don't wanna be against. But, I don't know. I I'm still I mean, the cap Brunson thing is, like, incredible offensively right now, but they're not the same team defensively. And I I just I'm a little I'm a little worried about the playoff thing with the playoff cat defensively. How's that gonna look?

What's the Mitchell Robinson minutes? Like, I don't know. I'm just, like I'm with Bill too, the Bridges thing. Listen. We're picking Harris.

They're they were good they're a good team, obviously, but I I I don't know. There's something about this Knicks team I'm not ready to fully go all in on.

Kirk, were you seeing 25 and 13 with 46% 3 point shooting from Towns this year? Was that in your bingo card?

Dude, Yeah. He is incredible. I didn't know that Tom Thibodeau was an offensive genius until this year.

I think Just found that out.

Yeah. Yeah. I just learned that. 2513, though, I think I would've I would've put him around there. The 45, 46% number from 3 point is crazy, dude.

I thought it was gonna go the other way. I thought it was gonna be like, oh, they they gotta figure out how to get in the ball more because there haven't been enough instead, it's like this him and Brunson as a combo. I've been crazy. And then it seems like the Knicks fans really like them too. That's the other thing that I think was up in the air.

They're gonna get Precious, and they're gonna get, Mitch Robinson back. And we don't I don't think we've seen what their defense really could be.

Yeah.

But I'm with Sarutobi. I definitely go Celtics, Cavs, Knicks, then I go Bucks. But I do think the Knicks' offense deserves respect. They can they can score against anybody, in a variety of ways. It's just like their their shooting is great, and then Brunson and Cat.

I do love the geometry, to borrow Jalen's basketball geometry phrase. I love what the Knicks have, spacing the court right now.

Yeah. I think I'd give a slight edge to, the Bucks because of just how crazy Giannis is this year. Yeah. It just seems like anytime he wants to go downhill and get he turns so my daughter went to the game on Friday because my dad got a COVID shot. And I don't know.

First of all, why did he get a COVID shot? What? Question. Second Wait. What?

And he's like, no.

He's like,

no. He's like, no. He's like,

no. He's like, nobody dead. It's 2024. What are you doing? So he got a COVID shot, and then go figure, him and my stepmom both felt like crap the next day.

So my daughter got to go with their boyfriend, and she hadn't seen Giannis in person. And it was so she called me after, and she was like, dad, is he, like, the best player of all time? Like, how where does he what? Fat guy is gonna have a 104 points this weekend, 2 games. But I think we've been watching the Giannis thing for so long, we forget just fundamentally how insane it is that he could just basically get to wherever he wants no matter what the defense is.

Middleton is the thing with them. I I to me, it's a 3 a 3 b thing, and I wanna know where we are with Middleton, in March. And then Orlando's kinda lurking as the who knows team. Miami, it's interesting. I and I don't I don't think they have any chance to move up into this ladder, but they do seem like they've figured out something over the last 2 weeks with their team.

Like, Hero carries the offense for 3 quarters. Butler kinda takes over late. Bam's having a really weird season. Like, all his field goal stuff and stuff around the rim is terrible. It's really, like, uncharacteristic.

But I'd for some reason, I I could see them maybe upsetting somebody in 1 round, but not more than that. And that's really it. I don't even know who else we would have in the east. Suri, you seem you seem, like, serenely confident, just focused on March April.

It just sucked. The Franz injury sucks because it takes away, like, the potential all star, the potential most improved. Like, all that stuff is kinda not

there anymore. The Supermax though, which is good for you.

I guess

That could've been, like, kinda, a salary cap nightmare to have 2 Supermax contracts.

I need I need to say this. To the people who this summer were criticizing the Jalen Suggs deal, oh, what was it? 5 years, a $150,000,000 for a guy that scores 12 points.

Who criticize that?

Yeah. Who is that?

People. People. Yes. Yes. And a lot of lot of lot of our

our friends

4 champs? Order. Maybe some Raptors fans were still a little upset about how that how that draft. By the way, the 2021 draft is my favorite draft in recent history. It's incredible.

Like, go down the list of just every, like, week, I feel like you change the order of what guys you want. Yeah. Obviously, Franz, Suggs,

what

do we got? Cade Mobley, Sang Kyun, Jalen Green, Barnes. Jalen Johnson was in that draft. Yeah.

Unbelievable draft.

Pay Suggs. The man's worth the money. He's 1 of the best winners in the league. He does things that other guys like, he is he is the ultimate winning player and whatever you need him do. And you saw it tonight.

Like, he doesn't he doesn't need to be a 30 point a game score, but he was tonight.

I think he's a 3rd guy on a championship team and maybe even potentially has the the ceiling of being a second guy if he was with somebody incredible. Right? Like, being, like, the Jamal Murray Yep. Drew Holiday spot if you get to play next to a Giannis or Jokic. Alright.

Thanks for stopping in, Sarutic.

Thanks, guys.

Appreciate you, Sarutic.

Congrats on your on your, heroic effort tonight.

Yeah. Hopefully, we'll see you in, in in April, May.

Before we go, Jacoby, you wanna talk about Embiid?

I do.

What do

you got?

What the fuck is going on? Just, like, what is going on? Like, I my questions for you, Bill, are what is the plan? Do his teammates like him? And all I hear about is like, how little he communicates with the team about his availability.

How he's late all the time. Like, Verno knew some guy who said he'd missed the team busses like the day after the report came out that he was late. It's just all like he's become, in the last 3 years, he's turned from 1 of the most likable stars in the league to someone who I'd I'd like less and less and less every every 3 months. And we're there right now.

So here's why I've landed Goldsberry. I I to me, remember we said that joke about Twitter like you when Twitter was really, like, a place a lot of people went to that you just wish you could have certain stories and just not even see them, that you could meet the story. If the story was happening, you just wouldn't even know about it. That's how I feel about Embiid might play tonight. Embiid's not gonna play tonight.

Embiid's gonna rest tonight. Embiid has some swelling again. Embiid's feeling better. I just I I'm just out. I'm tapping out.

I can't do it. And the chronic swelling was the most disturbing part of that story, I thought, this weekend. They it's not even like he re injured or anything. It was like, yeah. It's maintenance because he has chronic swelling.

What does chronic swelling mean? None of it sounds good. Goldsboro, you were you were at San Antonio when this was going on with Kawhi. It was a little different. There was more mystery, and Kawhi was younger.

He wasn't 7 foot 3 carrying a bunch of weight, but this just has a stranglehold over your franchise after a certain point. Right?

Yeah. That's a perfect word. It really is just like a black cloud or a stranglehold. I'd actually compare it to Tim. A lot of people forget that Tim Duncan had a really bad knee his entire career.

Yeah.

And the scourge that is known as load management has a lot to do with Tim Duncan's knee and Gregg Popovich and the staff really making sure that they could get everything. And then but that also meant that Tim had to be very serious about his nutrition and his sleep and all this other stuff. And I think as Joel enters sort of the later stage of his career, if he wants to keep playing at this level, he has to be more serious, more professional, not just about being on time to the bus, but taking care of his body. Like, the reason LeBron is LeBron at this age is because he was really careful about his body and respected that stuff. And, unfortunately, this is what it looks like when somebody doesn't do that kind of thing, in my opinion.

And I'm not quite sure where this is going. I do think Philadelphia has reasons to be more optimistic than the last time we talked about these guys on the podcast. Mhmm. I still think the east, what we just went through, is like, oh, may maybe Miami's the 5 seed. Unfortunately, there needs to be 8 playoff teams in the Eastern Conference, and I think Philadelphia will get 1 of those slots.

And so I think they could be pretty patient here. I just agree with what you guys are saying. This is really troubling. Like, the lack of communication, the lack of clarity, the weird Timmy Bon Temp's quotes from this week, It's depressing. I don't even know if it's injured.

It's just inflammation. These are bad signs, guys.

Yeah. This happened to the Celtics in o 9 with KG. I don't know if you remember. KG got hurt. They were, like, 31 and 5.

They had some crazy record. And it was like, KG's coming back, and then it was just, is he coming back? And then it was like, team not sure. Still feeling pain. Nobody's saying anything, and it just turns into this that, like you said, a black cloud where you don't know game to game we tweak.

What's weird is that I guess he looked pretty good in that Bulls game. I didn't watch it. I just saw the highlights.

I watched the game. He it was it was weird. He, like, he started out terribly. Like, he was he was, like, 0 for 7 or something. It was, like, and everything was short.

Like, that Memphis game was the same thing where everything was short. And he has this brace, like, his full leg brace on, and they started to get warmed up. And they're spamming this, like, they're they're spamming this high pick and roll with him and Maxey, and Maxey would just give him a pocket pass and he would just shoot from like 16 feet and Buscevic just didn't do anything about it. And even if Buscevic was on him, he would just jab step and then shoot over him. And he was like, I don't have the numbers for him, he's like 8 for 10 from like around the foul line.

Yeah.

Which is where, in my opinion, when he was best, when actually Doc was coached, he would just like operate from the foul line, but he would do a lot of distributing and, like, driving. But they really it's just like it got to the point when, like, the 3rd quarter, he was just absolutely wet from the mid range. Like, he scored, like, a like, a ton of points after starting starting over 7, looking like he might as well just, like, go back on the bench.

Yeah. It's like it's like when you see, like in a sports movie, there's, like, the the fat old washed up guy who wanders on the court and just starts hitting like 20 footers. It just seems like Khabib. He's so skilled from 18, 19 feet. It doesn't matter.

They had him play for a month. All of a sudden, he could just hit 9 straight 20 footers. But, you know, not to be a party pooper, but, you know, they're in this stretch. They were calling it, Hollinger called it NBA the NBA biweek, basically, where everybody has, like, 1 or 2 games over the course of 8 days. And they're playing Chicago, then they have all this rest so he can have a game.

He's playing Vucevic. He's playing the bulls who are a bottom 5 defensive team. And he can go out there, get a good run, get his points, not have to worry about playing the next day. I it's hard to feel optimistic after that is my point. Like, I wanna see what their schedule starts to get harder.

I think at the end of the year, they've got did they have a road trip? Is he gonna be on the road trip? Is he gonna play? Then there's the part that you mentioned about the teammates being asked about it. What do you think about Joel?

How much do you guys miss Joel? I it's just day after day, and, you know, it's not awesome, especially when you're competing against teams like OKC where it's like everybody's young and hungry, and they're all doing the postgame press conferences together. And they're and they're hanging out. They're ready to go. So I don't know how it plays out.

I'll tell you this though, the extension. Yeah. That's just a wow.

No. That's a that's a that is a very debilitating contract. And we talked about this earlier. It's like you don't see a lot of good teams with this new cap bill with any bad contracts, let alone a max contract with a guy who's not playing

That hasn't even kicked in from the extension part yet.

A 100%. It's like how do you build a team when you have that much sort of money locked up in in a player that may or may not even be able to to play most nights?

Jacoby, who's your favorite rookie?

My favorite rookie? Yeah. In terms of, like, to watch or like I would want on my team. Because, I mean, my favorite rookie is obviously Jared McCain, just like as a vibe. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Because he's so much fun and just sort of like so himself off the court. But, I am also on Reese's Shea Island. Like, what?

I wish

he made

threes. He's like 28% from 3 but everything else is theirs. It's like 20. Fluid. I know.

Like that team of Johnson, Daniels, Rhys O'Shea. It's like, Trey or no Trey, that is a core that I really, really like. I'm much higher in Atlanta than I should be and I'll admit that. But I I feel the same about Reese's shade. Like, I've I've watched he had a huge game.

I forget who he was against. It was early in the season. He had, like, 30 points or something. I was like, this dude looks like a number 1 pick in the NBA draft.

He's good. He knows what he's doing. I had over under bet I had over bets for them before the season when I was in Denver last week. I doubled down because the over was still too low. Because I think that's a over 500 team.

I think my favorite rookie is Castle. Yes.

Good point.

For what he he's gonna do, I think, this year, I think they're gonna have real trouble keeping him out of the lineup, and there's a chance, like, he's their 2nd best player by the end of the year. I just like him. I like how hard he plays. He seems like the kind of guy OKC would have. Just like a really, really, really gives a shit 2 way guy.

He can't really shoot yet, but, I thought he's my favorite guy heading in the draft. I thought he's the guy I would have taken number 1 if I was Atlanta. And everything I've seen from him, I'd I'd would not waver on that 1. I wanna see more Reid Shepherd is the 1 I think I'm the most interested by because I don't think Van Vliet's had a good season, and the shooting stats back it up. Like, they're not good.

And I wonder you know, I know they have, like, I forget if it's a player option or a team option next year, but it Reid Sheppard within 2 years will probably be running that team. But I almost that's 1 of those where you want, like, you know, Van Bly to have some very minor injury for 3 days or 3 games just to kinda see Reid Sheppard get to drive the car out of the garage a couple times. He's 1 I it's weird. I like this draft more than I thought, Kirk. Mhmm.

I

there's a lot of guys that are not superstars, but there's a lot of guys where I'm like, I kinda like that guy. Even Clinging on Portland. I like Zack Eady. There's a bunch of them.

I'm gonna come back to you on Eady because I need to know how how the, surf has been over at Eady Island if if the, if the seawalls are holding up. But I wanna know yes. Steven Castle is the is the answer for me, and it's not close. And I know I'm I'm obviously close to the Spurs. They are very excited about all the stuff he does.

I love the description of a thunder like player. He is Yeah. That kind of dog in him stereotype, but he does the stuff that doesn't show up in the box score. They love this guy. He's adding sort of an edge to their group.

I think Jeremy Sohan is kinda like that too, and I think it could help them. You know, they're they're destined to build a great defense in San Antonio, and I think he could be part of that. Yeah. Like like Lew Dort, another potentially great defender, he needed to get a shot, and Lewis figured that out. So I feel like Castle could could get a little of that.

Dalton Knecht obviously needs to be mentioned. I know he's older, but I think he's been fantastic given where they got him in the draft. I'm still on Ricochet Island. I'm not giving up on that anytime soon. But for me and I'll I'll say Reid Shephard, I think, is gonna be great in this league for a long time.

But I'm going Castle has really won me over in the last few weeks specifically. But tell me, Bill, Zack Eady, was he everything you dreamed of, or are you a little bit let down at this point in the season?

Well, I think Memphis is so deep Yeah. That I I thought he would actually be this important, like, weird, just kind of, you know, throw a cannonball in the pool just to shake it up kinda thing, but they don't need it. They just have too many good bench guys. Their bench is crazy. And the fact that Aldama is actually good

now, like Aldama. Yeah. You can't take minutes away from Huff and Aldama would be crazy. Those guys are just available. He's just not available right now.

We haven't seen him so much.

Yeah. True. Yeah. That's Sar, That's probably the worst possible situation for a guy like that. It's like your team's gonna just be awful, and you're just gonna learn some bad habits, but too early to, to say we talk about him.

I mean, 1 other thing with Memphis, like, another reason that Eadie's probably not even gonna play that much is that Brandon Clark has, I I was so impressed with him in the Boston game, but just it feels like he's got his explosiveness back. And he's a really unique player, like that crazy, undersized energy guy that always seems to be on good teams. So, yeah, I like the draft. We'll see with Dillingham. That was the other 1 that I was super duper intrigued by, but it feels like they phased him out a little bit because they're trying to get their defense going.

So we'll see what happens with that. Who's your most disappointing team, Jacoby? Indiana?

I mean, that's you're leading the witness, so I'm gonna try to go with another team.

Are you gonna zag on me? That's fine.

Yeah. I'm trying to. But, I mean, obviously the most disappointing team is the Sixers but I think there's a reason for that, just availability. Like, I think the Sixers, you know, I think the Sixers will turn around and end up being a playoff team. Let's not forget they were in the plan last year and ended up in like a really good series against the Knicks.

But, it has to be the Pacers and Halliburton. Remember this time last year, at the during the in season tournament, it was called at the time, they were the belle of the ball. And Halliburton was this like rising superstar. They put him in this stupid commercial with Rosario Dawson and he's not even a factor whatsoever and his like home road stuff is really strange. I don't think I've seen anything like that.

But, yeah, I would say the Pacers because it's it's, really, you know, the expectations were at a point where they're just not reaching.

It's probably Tommy Alter's fault. Who's your most disappointing team, Kirk?

Oh, this one's for Chris Vernon. The Memphis Grizzlies. I've been very disappointed. What do you no. I'm just kidding.

The The Caspergillus. Didn't hear

it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I would say the Minnesota Timberwolves because I thought I I hand up.

I thought the Randle trade was good. Dante DiVincenzo too. It hasn't worked. It has not worked. They went from having a very strong identity with great defense and good offense to not really having an identity and looking like a middle of a pack team in the Western Conference, when most of us thought they were going up a level, not down a level in this exact season, Bill.

So for me, I think the Pacers have a very strong claim to this cons conference finalists, but I will say Minnesota because I really want Anthony Edwards to be the face of American superstars in the next 5, 10 years. I love everything about him. So I've been particularly disappointed with that team's performance after what they did last year.

Those are 2 great choices. Congratulations to both of you, but the answer is the Phoenix Suns.

They don't have KD.

Okay. What do you

want them to do?

Yep. They don't have KD. Make excuses for big shot Bob Sarver. They're 13 and 11.

1 and 9 without KD.

Okay. But guess what? They traded all their 1st round picks. They traded McHale Bridges. They traded Cam Johnson.

They traded Deandre Ayton. They traded all their 2nd round picks. They traded everything to have basically a 3 guy team, and 1 of the 3 guys has been in the league since 2007 and has a bunch of injuries and has gotten hurt twice. And I don't know why I fell for it. It made me mad.

They were 1 of my favorite overs. I picked them to win the division. I thought they were gonna be a 50 plus win team, and I forgot the fact that they're built around this guy who's been in the league for 18 years, asking him to be their rim protector, their crunch time score, to put do 30 a game, 9 rebounds a game, make 50% of your shots and 45% of your threes, do everything. And it's like, oh, guess what? He lasted a month before he got hurt twice.

And I'm just mad at myself more than anything. But you have to be disappointing when you trade literally a decade of stuff for the team you have in your 13 and 11. So that's my answer.

Did they

when they'd made the Beal trade, were you like, that's great? Well Like, no 1 liked that trade.

Yeah. Especially now with all the apron stuff that happened. That trade looks even a 100 times worse. Like, you would much rather have the flexibility now. But when you just consider all the assets they sent out for the team that they have now, and it's all hinging on, well, when Durant's healthy, might not happen.

You know? He's 7 foot 1, and he's had a lot of lower below the hip injuries at this point, and they put a huge burden on him in playing big minutes. And I would just be nervous about his sense.

Yeah. I can see it.

Counterpoint. You don't wanna draw them in the 1st round of the playoffs. Because they're let's let's imagine that KD plays well, gets back. They're gonna climb in the standings. Like, right now, I think they're 10th or whatever.

They're they're gonna climb in the standings and then you see them in the 1st round and you're like, Man, Booker and KD can get on a heater. You know? Like, it feels a little bit like, they're basically the Sixers.

But counter, does everybody have 2 good guys at this point?

No. No. The Rockets have 0. They're 1 of the best teams in the league.

But they can play defense though. Yes. Yeah. I guess for for me, Kirk, with Phoenix, like, that you know, there's always gonna be now that Nurkic is pretty much unplayable, so leaning on Plumlee now as their center and Thijs Jones, these are like bench guys. These are guys that would be, like, 10th or 11th players on the Celtics or the Thunder, and these are 2 of their crunch time guys.

Yeah. It goes back to our theme earlier. It's like there's not a lot of old and overpaid great teams in the NBA right now. And

No.

They're they're best players older as you pointed out. Devin Booker's certainly not old. He I'm not mad at his contract. The Beal deal to me sticks out, like a sore thumb on their cap sheet. Nerk, like, you have to have pretty much a perfect roster.

And I I I I kind of agree with you. Doesn't everybody have at least 1 superstar that we're talking about winning at all? Yeah. Pretty much. I think that is fair.

And to me, the differentiating stuff is now lower down on your depth chart, and that's where this team is just really not great. And I don't think they'll ever be able to play defense well enough to keep up with the top teams in the west. But I keep going back to that Bradley Beal decision because that was a lot of depth they traded, essentially, for 1 other player that might have sort of a repetitive role next to Devon and Kevin.

70 +1000000 for Bradley Beal and Nurkic and Bobo. Is Bobo still on the team?

Yeah. That smells like new owner decisions.

Guys, thanks for staying up with me. It's a pleasure seeing you. Great seeing you in your weird weird, undisclosed New York City location at 1 in the morning. I don't know where you are. Be careful walking home, Jacobes.

Kirk, great to see you. We even though we were your sloppy seconds tonight, I had a great time talking to you guys. I will see you soon, I'm sure. Thanks for coming up. Alright.

We're taping this part out on Monday. I did a rewatchables taping with, with Kyle Brandt, who we haven't been together in a long time Yeah. Really since, Super Bowl with the Giants and the Pats that I never really talked about. Craig Corlbeck is here too. Let's talk football.

There's no

reason for this. We just heard the mics on.

Come

on. Sal brought up last night on the podcast about whether if you were granted, it's it's like a generic talk show segment, but I really it really got my brain turning about Josh Allen versus Mahomes. Mhmm. Mahomes, the resume versus what we're actually watching week to week, game to game. Like, the shit that he's doing, the shit when they're down 35 to 13 against the, Rams.

And you're just like, not turning this off. Nope. I feel like Josh can bring this back.

Yeah.

You've been on the Bills thing forever. Yeah. So is anything different this year, or is is are the are the toys better for him? Is it just the experience? What is it?

What's different?

Between the ears. It's, like, the happiest he's ever been in his life. And I mean I mean, like, in all different ways.

Is that a Stefon Diggs sub tweet? A little bit. Yeah.

It's funny to think about it. Like, can you ever remember the last Bills loss? It's been so long before the Rams game. Yeah. They lost to the Texans that night, and the take was like, wow.

Diggs got over on the Bills. And there was this viral moment of Diggs, like, side eyeing him, and we haven't heard from Diggs since he got hurt. And Allan's taken over the world. But, loves his offensive coordinator, never more comfortable, loves the guys in the room. And I don't think this is irrelevant.

Like, he's engaged to a a movie star and a pop star, and his personal life is out of control, like, over the hill over the moon. Amazing. And he has a good run game and a good offensive line. Like, what do you want as a quarterback? My line's awesome.

My running backs are awesome. I have, like, a really cool girl that I'm with, and, like, my receivers are cool guys. And I know they're not Calvin Johnson, but, like, they make plays for me. I think he's so happy and so confident. I think it's great.

Yeah. We joked last week on the Fantasy pod that last week was Josh Allen's Apex Mountain. Right? Engaged to Hailey Steinfeld, had the big night game whole thing. Yeah.

Literally, a week later week later, he already beat it. Even though he lost to the Rams, I would say his now this is his Apex Mountain. He had the greatest day in Fantasy Football history, basically. 52 points, and he locked up the MVP. You think it's done?

Yeah.

I think he did. Yeah.

And I can't count out Lamar yet for some reason, but I think it's like, FanDuel would say it's done. It's like he's like a minus 500 fan.

In a

regular year, LaMar, there's

LaMar fatigue. He's already got it a couple times.

Yeah.

And I I listen. I was I want Saquon to win the batter. Just be cool. He would have to have the perfect campaign. Like, he'd have to break the Dixon record.

He'd have to have the touchdown, write everything. Allen just took

it away. I'm not sure it can be Saquon. I just it's hard. 2 years ago, the Eagles made the Super Bowl with Miles Sanders.

Yeah. And

so it's like, I just

I'm out. I did this last week. I'm out on the Saquon. I just I just think, like

I want it to. It would be cool, but

I don't

think they can

do it. This is the dumbest way to think about it, but I also think it's the best way to think about it. When somebody gets hurt, what happens to the line? Mhmm. Like, if Josh Allen got hurt, the Bills line moves by 9 points.

If Barkley gets hurt, the Eagles line moves by, like, 2 and a half points.

Again, they were, like, the best team in the league with Miles Sanders too.

Yeah. So that's what I hate that it has to be a quarterback I know. Pretty much every year unless the guy's having the most amazing season ever or there's no, like, awesome quarterback. But for the most part, this this is the it's like saying, like, no. The pilot's not the MVP of this airplane.

It's actually the 3rd flight attendant. Got those peanuts. She's killing it. It's like, you know who's the MVP? The fucking pilot because we're crashing if the if the pilot does make out.

But I I think as the Allen thing, especially as it pertains to Mahone, my concern is that that Rams game, 20 years from now, when, like, you tell your kids, your grandkids about Josh Allen, like, that's the Josh Allen experience. He's unbelievably cool superhero action star, and the Bills lose.

Right. And they have the dopey play with the QB sneak where they waste the time out of the era. What are you doing?

Like, is is he I just worry that he's, like, Dominique Wilkins or something. Like, just so awesome, incredible talent. What did it amount to? He's even said it. He's like he said it.

I'm sick of winning t shirts. He has a whole stack of t shirts that are, like, division champ t shirts. And he's like, I wanna get them out of my closet. I don't want these anymore. That's what he's known for at this point.

Because if they lose in the playoffs if they lose in the playoff this year to the Chiefs, what do you think if you're a Bills fan? Like, this Chiefs team sucks. We can't even beat this 1.

It's Right. It's a big game playoff here. That's why it would be the Steelers that they lose to.

It might be. I know you're big on the Steelers. Right?

I am. I I I'd I'm stunned that the Steelers have not gotten more credit this year. I don't get it. I don't know what else they have to do.

I'm holding my breath a little bit. They have a

really tough

This is tough. I'm just

being super careful.

This is a tough 4 game stretch they're heading into. And and it's been pretty easy the last 4 weeks. Now they're Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals. Bengals? No.

Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals. It it's a tough stretch. But

they're playing Christmas night too.

Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm.

The Josh thing, the way you laid it out, really makes me think of Peyton Manning first half of the 2000.

Mhmm.

Where he had reached this point where he's the best regular season quarterback. He was the guy who would take 1st in fantasy, all that stuff, but he never felt like he was actually gonna win. And then they end up winning in o 6 partly because the Pats choked away a 21 to 3 halftime line.

In the dome. In the dome. Marlon Jackson interception sealed it, and it was like, holy shit. They beat Brady. And that's this is my test for the Chiefs right now.

So we're picking away at all of them, and they barely win, and all their numbers are terrible, and the offense, like, looks legitimately bad except for 1 drive every game. Let's say they get the 1 seed, they get the buy. The division run, you're watching on your couch, and the Chiefs lose to Pittsburgh or Baltimore or Houston or something like that. Are you surprised? Because I'm shocked.

I I I believe I'll fall off my chair if they lose the division run, even as bad as they've been. That's my respect for them. I agree completely. It's every week.

Shocked? I'd be shocked if the Chiefs lost. I I I was like, oh, you know, if if the Bills play the Chiefs again in the playoffs, this is what we see every year. The Bills beat Mahomes in the regular season, Mahomes beat talent in the Bulls. It's it's the same thing every single year.

The problem for the Chiefs is sometimes you can pass the point of no return with weapons. Because and I said this last time in the pod, like, this did happen to Brady a couple of times where, like, o 6, he was awesome, and we just had nobody. We had Lawrence Maroney, a starting running back, and Rashay Caldwell, and Jabar Gaffney, and Ben Watson. It was like, we just didn't have enough weapons. When we needed 3rd downs, there was that 1 guy to get open.

There was that awesome running back. I don't think the Chiefs' weapons are that bad, but there's been some Brady seasons where he was better than the team. And I wonder with Mahomes' I think it took a lot of hits on Sunday night. Money.

It's so weird. I feel like last year was the year the Chiefs were supposed to lose, and then the criticisms were down. What did they go? 11 and 6? And it was like, yeah.

You know, this is what we were saying. You you can't do this again. Not with these weapons.

Yeah. The Raiders killed them on Christmas. Yes.

It was like a super weird year.

Should they have lost? And Allen missed that 1 third of digs. There was 1 other play. Like, if you really watch that game closely, it was kind of amazing the Bills didn't win that game.

Yeah. I don't think anybody knows what to do now. Now that they come out of this weird 11 6 year where they shouldn't have won the Super Bowl, but they did. And now they're 12 and 1, and they've well, they've won 16 straight games that were 1 score. Yeah.

It's the most improbable run. I mean, can you think of it anything like this in the last 20, 30 years in the NFL?

No. There there were some weird Patriot years wondering, like, how we were doing it week after week. But this is different because they're almost adding this degree of difficulty to the wins. And I I'm not a lucky person with football. I'd I've never really bought into that because, clearly, they're good.

Clearly, like, the plays that he was making yesterday, especially in the last drive, that 3rd and 15 was crazy.

So cool. Yeah.

Right? The 3rd and 7, you know he's gonna get it. So that that's its own skill. I thought what would concern me if I was them was was, the charges I thought were really physical with them in the second half in a way that I don't remember seeing with the Chiefs. Yes.

But you always felt like the Chiefs were gonna lose. It was because they, you know, they dropped the key third down pass or something. I I thought the chargers were, like, pushing them back.

Without their best running back.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, the chargers are built like Michigan.

And without their best receiver.

No. Definitely. I think the chargers are gonna win a playoff game. I I I like them still. I'm not jumping ship on the chargers.

Yeah. Without the best receiver, without the best running, like, they play great defense So they'll be

a 6 seed. Right? It's about whatever behind Baltimore, Pittsburgh. Yeah. Mhmm.

But 6 seed would put them probably against either Buffalo or Pittsburgh.

Yeah. And I I don't like that match. I don't like the chargers. But the distinction, I think, with with the Chiefs' weapons is, like, I think there's having players that are just kinda average, and but then there's having players who are just kind of average the way they're playing, who are made guys. Like Jandre Hopkins and Kelsey, even Junior, those are guys who've been around, who've been in playoff games, who've won.

Those are the guys who are like, oh, shit. We turned on the division run. Kelsey had 9 catches and 2 touchdowns. They're like, they've done it. It's not average players who just suck and have never done it.

These guys are all a friend of ours.

You know what

I mean?

They can turn it on.

Well, that's why they're gonna win. That's why I'm so cautious with the Chiefs because of the Kelsey keeping him in the garage with the tarpon thing. Yeah. Like, they're just clearly doing that. Yeah.

I we didn't see him for 2 hours in the game yesterday. And you know in Fantasy, like, people are still paying for him in Fantasy.

Yeah. He was still fringe first guy who went off the board in drafts. It was like him and Laporta.

But then you watch Bowers. Although the Tampa was able to take him out a little yesterday, and Bowers is just, like, Gronk crossed with Kelsey, crossed with, like, a sports movie tight end. Yes. He's open all the times. He's just crushing everybody.

And Kelsey could probably do that in January in round 2, but I don't think they're using that skill now.

Mm-mm.

So I don't know. If I had to rank them, I I I honestly think Pittsburgh's the safest bet out of the 3. Mhmm. Because the defense

More than Buffalo? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I think they could beat Buffalo in Buffalo because they can get some explosive plays, but I think Buffalo has a better chance of beating KC. Because the thing with KC that I can't wrap, I feel like if you can get 24 and up on them, points wise Uh-huh. You're probably beating them. Right? Buffalo beat them 30, 21.

Yeah. But Pittsburgh is more likely to play the 18 to 16 Uh-huh. 19 to 16 type Kansas City game, which is better for KC. So I do feel like there's some rock, paper, scissors.

Yeah. I think Arthur Smith and and Russ are really starting to work well, especially last week without Pickens, which I do think Tomlin held Pickens. I think Pickens could have played in that game. I think they knew they had this gauntlet coming up. Mhmm.

They held them against the Browns. 100% agree.

They were at home. I think that was a very smart move to

the bottom.

Beat Jameis.

There were more open guys in that game than there have been all season for Pittsburgh. So I do think Arthur Smith and Russ are really starting to gel. I just worry that in January, they're in Buffalo. They need to score 35 to beat the Bills. Mhmm.

They're doing too high. They're taking off all the top end stuff for Russ. You really gotta rely on, like, Najee Harris having a good game running the ball. And then if it's not Pickens, it gets real thin real quick. Yeah.

I'm a

little worried. I almost wonder if, like, they could muck it up with the Chiefs and win a game like 1970. Mhmm. That's where I feel it.

Yeah. But Kyle knows the the way to beat the Bills is what the Rams did yesterday.

Mhmm.

You're just Blake Crawford. Yard runs. I don't know. 4 yard runs. Yes.

7 yard run. 7 yard pass, 3 yard run. 5 yard You had Stafford chipping away chipping away chipping away.

Lock a punt. You get it like you have this

big play. Yeah. Big defensive play.

And then Jesus Christ, Nakua and Cooper were just doing anything they wanted.

They looked bad.

I mean, Stafford, Nakua and Puka is, like, the highest degree of difficulty offense in the league. Like, it is so hard, but they do it because they're so good. And I'm like, I I don't I I will But what were you able to run for?

The running game, I thought, was the most interesting part of that. Mhmm.

Because

They did. Buffalo, I wouldn't say they're like a giant defense.

No. Not really.

Just like you can push them backwards.

They thought that okay. So Matt Milano's back now. Like, he was their heart and soul of their defense. He's back there gonna stop it. And Sheryl Bernard's amazing in the middle, but, like, they did this Blake Coram thing that we haven't seen a lot of them this year, and then obviously, Kyron.

My my I I have a little bit of a spicy take on the Bills, Rams thing is I actually think that loss was good for the Bills. And I'll tell you why. Like, everybody was just on their nuts across the whole country because they did a lateral play and they won in snow and they're the best team ever. They go across the country. They get their ass whooped a little bit.

Now they play the lions, which is 1 of the biggest games of the regular season. I think they need to have their shit humbled a little bit, just a little bit. They were such a darling for about 3 or 4 days, and then they weren't that good. And I think that get that loss out of the way now maybe and have a little bit of a wake up call. I actually was not shocked that they lost that game because McVay is amazing.

And when Kupp and Nakua are out there for the Rams this year, the Rams are 6 and 2. Like, they're a very, very good team, and their defense is, like, super young, super doesn't give a crap. I'll hit Josh Allen late, talk shit to him, don't care. Like, the Rams are if if I had to pick a team that holy shit on team that's in the Super Bowl, I'd pick the Rams as, like, the holy shit team.

Your holy shit team.

My holy shit team is the Rams. Like, that is a dark horse, Cinderella, all that. Like, they have the quarterback. I think they have the best coach in football, and they have this crazy young defense who doesn't know if they're not supposed to be that good yet. They're my holy shit Super Bowl team.

I think the holy shit team has to be AFC. Okay. Just for me. But I like that pick. But I think

Like, the chargers would be a holy shit.

Yeah. Detroit Philly talent pedigree That's good. Is gonna be real especially if you have to go into Detroit round 2, round 3 and try to take those guys. Whereas the AFC, I don't really love any team, and I could I feel the best about Pittsburgh. I certainly wouldn't feel, like, awesome about Russell Wilson winning 3 straight playoff games.

You know?

Yeah. And if this is the year to go against So my

my holy shit playoff team would actually be the chargers.

Mhmm.

Because I'm

with you on that.

They can block, and they can chase the passer. Mhmm. And once we get into January, if you can just do those 2 things, make a couple plays, not turn the ball over, and win a couple ugly games, that's what the Chiefs did last year. You know? I was really impressed by their mystery.

I think they're Those chargers in a loss? I thought they, I thought they really handled the Chiefs defensive line. I was surprised. And Mhmm. Like, Herbert misses wide open touchdown.

Right? Palmer. Yeah. He missed another guy, like, 35 yards down the field. Their running backs are among the worst in the league without Dobbins.

Yeah. Gus Edwards and Vidal. Like, come on.

They're overachieving this year. Like, it's impressive already what Harbaugh has done. These are 1. Yeah. This was supposed to be kind of like, alright.

We'll get our line, and we build from the inside out, see what we got. We'll see what we have in Ladd McConkie. He's already 1 of the better rookie wide receivers in the league.

You know what's funny? We talk about football all the time, and we always look for these angles on what makes the team special Yeah. Who's gonna be the sleeper. This was the 1st year where I was like, all I care about are coaches and QBs.

Smart.

I did all my over unders, and I was like, if you have a coach or a QB, I don't I'm not like, I'm not even gonna worry that the chargers don't have receivers. I'm going over. I'm picking them to make the playoffs. They harbon her Herbert.

Doesn't matter.

That should be enough.

Yes.

Whereas, like, flip side, I don't know. Vegas, I don't understand their quarterback situation. Oh, I don't know where we're getting the I'm out. And I wonder sometimes is football just that simple? Is it all about the QB and the coach and the rest of it is, like, periphery?

Yeah. In retrospect, looking at Rodgers and Salah, it's like I you know, not that I I like Robert Salah.

You're big on them Craig. Yeah. I think everybody was a little bit great. That was

my big mistake. I had the Jets over Buffalo in the division. That was my biggest regret.

But my big thing

Rodgers is washed. Like, he's you know, if you knew he's gonna be the 41 year old Wash Rodgers, I wouldn't have picked that.

I know. My big thing in Fantasy this year is, like, try to eliminate, as much randomness as you can. Like, only bet on things you can depend on that you know are gonna happen.

Pitching quarterback. And then

I just was completely blind to the Jets, like a 40 year old quarterback coming off a torn Achilles. I had the biggest miss.

I got so happy by all the Buffalo dead cap space stuff and transition year. I just they they snookered me. I think they snookered themselves.

I don't even know if they expected this. Yeah. I really do think it was alright. This will be a year, and we'll lose in the wild card or whatever, but just Allen's been that good and the offense has been that good. Can I give you, like, a surprised, disgruntled team right now?

Yeah. I'm kinda with you. Like, I have a couple friends, and they're Philly guys, and they're, like, beside themselves right now. They hate this team. They're like, we're gonna lose.

We're gonna go 1 and done. Oh, wow. They're panicking.

But, like, 6 days ago, everybody was thinking Detroit's defense is so banged up. Philly, the season parted for Philly. That's how I was feeling.

The Eagles have won 9 in a row. Yeah. And they're like, nope. Hertz doesn't have it. There's not their their kicker keeps missing.

That freaks people out. Mhmm. He can't make 1 from 50 plus. He hasn't made 1 all year after this game, this last game. The problem is alright.

They barely beat the Panthers, and people have to update their expectations of the Panthers. The Panthers aren't the Panthers till September. They're actually kinda good. They're frisky. Like, they almost beat the Chiefs.

Like, they're they're exactly frisky. They did

a they had a 98 yard drive almost to win a game with 3 minutes left.

I mean, Bryce Young won that game. Leggett dropped it.

I know. Leggett dropped it. And so Eagles fans are like, we saw like, first of all, the Panthers are pretty good. But then right after the game, AJ Brown, after a win, the 9th in a row, they're like, AJ, what do you

think you need to work?

And he's passing. We gotta get better at passing. Jesus. AJ, you won 9 in a like, there's some issues with Hertz, and I think there's Eagles fans still don't totally believe in him. Just my friends.

I I think he's a really good player, but there's my friends. And I think

also really believe in Serianna either. Right?

So for QB, coach quarterback. And, also, I think AJ Brown is, like, tired of the Saquon shit. Like, we passed the ball the least in the whole team. They're they're ranked last in the league in pass attempts. They run it.

They have an MVP running back. I don't know if he's liking that either.

This reminds me of I was talking to

an MVP. They're 9 in a row they've won, and they're, like, they're so they're pissed.

Are they waiting for the collapse? Because remember, the Eagles were, like, 10 and 1 last year, but it was the weirdest Super Bowl hangover where everybody was miserable, but they were 10 and 1.

No. They're supposed to be good.

Their defense is awesome. It's amazing. They retooled immediately.

This was a theory I heard about the Nuggets. You made me think of about, like, AJ Brown being pissed. They yeah. Like, that was, like, why isn't Jamal Murray playing better? It's like, because Jokic does everything I this person I know who was was saying how, NBA it was just a theory.

It's like those guys are tired of just being, like, Jokic's towel boys, and, everything's Jokic Jokic. Oh, what a miracle it must be to play with Jokic. Oh, he gets all the stats. And, like, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Junior is, where's mine? I won you too.

Because they already won a title.

So AJ Brown's like enough with the backwards hurdle. We get it. Enough with the sequin shit.

Enough with the tush pass.

I don't know. It's probably easier when when the star is the quarterback. When it's running back, it probably rubs AJ Brown the wrong way. He's like, I'm just as good as that guy. I look.

I can't play quarterback, but

It's true.

It's a running back? Really?

It's true.

I mean, counter, is there a wide receiver who's gruntled?

I know. We have

a lot of disgruntled receivers. Do we have gruntled receivers?

Jefferson always seems pretty gruntled. Yeah. Even when he wasn't putting up numbers.

Yeah. He seemed happy for Addison.

Huge contract. Huge. Plays indoors. Like, everybody loves him. I think Jefferson's gruntled.

Do you buy Minnesota yet? I know that's been a we we for 3 months, all of us who do podcasts and content Yeah. Were all just assuming this was your classic Viking season where the stats say they should have been 9 and 8, and they went 14

to 3. But every week. Let's have a Sam Darnold conversation. I I it's nuts. So my background in Sam Darnold is okay.

We're supposed to be the number 1 overall pick, fell a little bit, Baker rises up and steal it. From that point, every single coach slash guru, all the McVays and Shanahans and, like, Jordan Palmer types, they all swear that Sam's the man. Oh, Darnell's incredible. Darnell's got it. And as a fan, you're like, he mostly sucks every time we see him.

It just feels like, when someone keeps recommending the show, you gotta watch the show. It's so good. It's so good. And you're like, it's not that good. They're like, watch another episode.

I probably

watched another episode. Shits creek

for me. Yeah. Keep no. You gotta watch another I mean, dude, I'm on 3 seasons in. I don't like the show.

It's a sitcom. Yeah. The show is finally amazing. And all those coaches were like, he's amazing. And yet, they may just cut Baitland this year.

Well,

I was gonna ask.

It says I don't know.

What do they have to do in the playoffs where it becomes a problem for the Minnesota front office thinking, well, now what?

I say to Sal.

NFC championship, what what happens now?

I said Assad on Sunday's pot. I don't know how they let him go at this point. Like, when you have a quarterback that you're built your team's built around these 2 awesome receivers that you have. Right? Yep.

You have a quarterback who's clearly clicking with them in a real way, who's made big plays over and over again down the stretch. Why do I have to start JJ McCarthy next year? Why can't I just trade JJ McCarthy? He's the 8th he was 7th or 8th what was he? 7th?

7th pick. Mhmm.

I don't know how he was. Top 10.

I know he's coming off a torn ACL.

Yeah. But you loved him.

But you think, like, I'm trading him for a high second, and I get to pay Sam Darnold.

Mhmm.

I

think when Sal and I went through all the teams that need quarterbacks, there's probably 4 legitimate plus maybe Seattle if they don't pay Gino, maybe Purdy. Sure. Just 6 total. Yeah. I just think if I'm Vegas, I'm paying them.

They're like the anti Chiefs because no matter how bad the Chiefs look, I think to myself, I'm I'm still gonna bet on the homes.

No. How not good the

Vikings look? Doesn't matter how good the Vikings look. I'm like, hey, in the playoffs, I'm gonna bet against Shane.

Yeah. We did $1,000,000 picks Thursday, and the house was, like, imploring me to put the Vikings in a in a parlay. And I was just, like, it looks too easy. Something's wrong. I don't I don't it makes me nervous.

Nobody likes cousins. And we ended up doing it, And Falcon scored 7 nothing, and I'm texting. I was like, motherfucker. Why did I listen to you? You fucking dick.

They were good early. Listen, same organization, Vikings, few years back. They're in the NFC title game. Their quarterback is Case Keenum. Right.

Killing it. Making miracles. That's a fun day. He's like, oh my god, Keenum. Yeah.

Moved on. Went to Cousins. It was the right move.

Yeah. But here's the difference with Darnold. If you're just talking about what if I have a franchise quarterback, what do I want? Do I want size? Well, he has that escapability.

He has that cannon arm, has that is he pretty good down the stretch or when you need him to make some plays? He's done that all year.

Also, he doesn't say shit. It's like a model citizen, great reputation.

Teammates like him.

Yeah.

I don't know what he's missing. I watch quarterbacks for 10 to 11 hours every Sunday

Mhmm.

And most of them are bad. And he's actually pretty good.

The take is very insulting to to him. Here's the take. Okay. You have Jefferson and Addison and Aaron Jones and Hawkinson and KOC is your coach. Of course, you're succeeding.

Right. It's the it's the Brock party. Yeah.

We put somebody in there. It's the Brock party.

And you know

how it's gonna go

because when he leaves and signs a 4 year, 160,000,000 Daniel Jones contract somewhere else, he's not gonna be good because it's the Kevin O'Connell Yeah. System of making Josh Dobbs good for 3 weeks. And it seems like Kevin O'Connell is like the guru quarterback whisper now. And I just know Darnold is gonna go sign a deal with, like, God forbid,

the Giants or something Mhmm.

And be terrible. It's gonna happen.

And we've seen Cousins won 11 and 1 as the Vikings quarterback. And they won every and they get to the play, and they lost to Daniel Jones. So that's part of the reason why everyone's like, I don't know. Darnold is I feel like we've seen this seen this shit before. That's why you're saying no matter how much they win, you don't believe in them because they we could look up and they lose in the wild card round.

Like, what was

that for? About Baker last year, and then they signed him, and he's been good this year.

That's true.

I the best thing with Darnold is how young he is. What is he? Like

He's very young.

27. Right? So Yeah. I if I were them, I would try to sign him for, like, 100 for 4 years, something like that. Try to get him, like, 25 a year, and then try to trade JJ McCarthy.

Mhmm. But, supposedly, he heard his ACL again, so maybe he doesn't even have the same It just that to me, that feels like the disasters. Like, we had this guy. Mhmm. Now we let him go because JJ is ready.

And then what if JJ is not good? And these receivers are like, what the fuck?

I know.

But Donald had 40 touchdowns.

Imagine the other way, though. They they trade their their top 10 pick, JJ McCarthy, who goes off and has a great career, and the next year, Sam Donald turns back into a pumpkin, and it's like 1 of the worst front office moves of all time.

Yeah. To your point, though, let's say the Vikings are like, we love Sam, but we have a very bright future for JJ, and we wanna be in bench. What is the line that the Vikings get to where they're like, well, we're in the Super Bowl. We can't get rid of Sam Darnold now. Right.

Do they have to win it? I I think if you get I think you have to get to the Super Bowl. Because already, Case Keenan was in the title game with them. They've already been that a few years ago. I think if he gets to the Super Bowl, it's I guess you're coming back.

You know? As a fan, I was in a situation once with a guy by the name of Tom Brady Yeah. In 2001. Yeah. Blitzall gets hurt.

Brady keeps his job, and we're kinda like, is he gonna be the starter? And we'll be like, oh, let's see what happens. And all of a sudden, he won the Super Bowl Drew Tom Brady. Getting traded.

The first Tom Brady Sam Darnold comp. Yeah.

I just you never know. Yeah.

I like it.

The thing is Detroit Detroit's defense mess, and I don't see how it really gets better. Right? So at least there's a little bit of a hole there. Philly has all the chemistry stuff. Green Bay, I'm not sure I trust Jordan Love.

And just in general, I I wouldn't pencil them in. Like, Minnesota can play with all of these teams.

Those 3 teams in the North, they're 28 and 3 outside of the North. They beat everybody.

Like, those teams are probably 3 best teams of the week.

They're up there. They I think they have they're all top 5 teams. Who knows? They're 28 and 3 when they're not playing each other. So they kick the shit out of everybody.

I think the Lions' defense reputation is down right now because what we just saw. I think they'll be better. I think they'll be back. I still think they're gonna win the Super Bowl. I still think it's the Lions.

I would, at gunpoint, pick them as well, but I don't feel great about it. Maybe Pittsburgh,

you think, maybe? Or cheese.

No. I would still life depends on it. I'm still doing Lions KC.

Yeah.

But I just think right now, mid December. Is it mid December?

It is. Well yeah.

I think Pittsburgh is the most complete all around team right now. I don't know what that's gonna mean. Where are

you at with Russ? Isn't this weird for you to be saying that?

Every fucking week

I know.

Russ makes 3 40 yard plays or gets a pass interference. There's a play that moves the ball 35 to 50 yards, 3 times a game with him, and it happens every single week. And at some point, that's He looks cool. What they do.

Yeah. Where it's like

the Chiefs get none of those plays. The Chiefs had 1 30 yard play to Hopkins, and he dropped it. And it just seemed like a miracle that they almost completed it.

So bad.

Russ is cocky right now. He's doing this, like, you know Yeah.

He does. He's talking about

a lot

of stuff.

He gets down on 1 knee and, like, points to the side. Has he always done that? Or is that a new

I never saw it.

Yeah. He unveiled it.

He does a lot of, like, running over to the sideline and barking at the Mhmm. OC and shit like that.

Have you have have either of you have you done the Russ pop culture comp? Like, what what this is? Because, like, I was doing it the other day with Peter. I think it's it's it's Travolta. And The comeback.

Seattle was all of the seventies and eighties, and he's a superstar. He's the coolest rock star ever. Denver was look who's talking. It's pathetic. And then, like, 4 and 2, Mike Tomlin put him in, and it was just Pulp Fiction.

And, like, he is, like, the coolest guy ever now and can't miss. It's an amazing

I would go Lady Gaga.

You go you go Lady Gaga. What? Yes. Like, going on.

Really strong start.

Uh-huh.

Considered a diva pretty early on.

Yes.

Did some good stuff. Faded a little bit, and then A Star is Born was her Pittsburgh.

That's the 4 and 2 Pittsburgh.

But then if they're gonna end with Joker 2, that would be a bummer.

Oh, yeah. Craig, you should have bring the house down.

Next year.

But, I

mean, you root for Russ every week.

Yeah.

He's surprisingly good. There's just no other way to say it. He's been doing this now for 2 and a half months.

I'm enjoying it 1 weekdays. Plays.

Over and over and over again.

I'm not looking ahead. I'm not looking into the future. I'm just every every week, I'm having a good time and and,

I always would think that Tomlin wouldn't be here for the Russ theatrics that we used to see. Tomlin's good at that. Affected. Like, I guess he Yeah.

He's like weird. Tomlin looks weird.

Yeah.

I mean, he works with Pickens, who's ready to start it.

He's a Tony

Award. Fight and

did it every game. Yeah.

Let's go on

and on. Pickens is great.

The the other thing with Pittsburgh, their kicker Yeah. Is is there another kicker you feel better about during any playoff game in bad weather than Boswell? He's like the new Tucker. Oh, I Like, he lined up like a 54 yarder yesterday. He's like, he's making that.

He's

been that guy. He's been the best offensive player in the Steelers for the last 5 years. I think he leads the league in points.

Tomlin Boswell. Like, I I can't find the holes. It's really, like, who's gonna be that second receiver on 39?

I know.

But Mike Williams had a couple good plays yesterday.

Yeah. And Fryer Smith is like, they're they're really good. They they're amazing team. Is it like, the rust thing you see comebacks, like, they they suck. And you never see when someone's a superstar then sucks and then is a superstar again.

The only ones I can think of are Kurt Warner who went Saint Louis

Right. With Arizona.

And then the Giants, who was, like, just weird. And then Arizona's the Super Bowl again. And then even a slightly less version of that, Carson Palmer was with the Bengals. Good 1.

Was with the Raiders, and

I don't even remember that. And then he was with Arizona and was also in a title game. But the the the good shit and then good again is really hard to

pull off. Happens with quarterbacks because it feels like the wrong offensive line, the wrong coach, the wrong team, and they could just get the shit kicked out of them for 2 years and just completely lose their confidence. Right?

It's funny. Russ has never been paid the right amount based on what his talent is at the moment. Like, when he was on Seattle when he first got drafted, he kinda like started that Right.

That quarterback model thing. Yeah.

He was making like $700 a year and leaving them to Super Bowl. Then the Denver thing happens and he's making 40 $3,000,000 a year, and he's terrible.

Yes.

And

now he's a great again on Pittsburgh making $1,000,000 a year. I know Denver's still paying him, but, and then he'll probably I I think the plan is and I think this is what the Steelers envisioned the whole time. I think they are gonna definitely resign Russ.

No question. They just don't wanna pay more than 10 to 12, I'm guessing. They have a whole

thing.

We also might get Pittsburgh, Denver, the playoffs. That'd be pretty fun. You

talked about the comeback though with him and how unusual that is. The other thing that's unusual for me, I always feel like quarterbacks hit that point in no return. It just doesn't seem like they wanna get hit anymore Yeah. Which Rodgers was clearly the last 7, 8 weeks. It's like, that guy doesn't wanna get hit anymore.

Roger, Wilson last year to me just seemed like he didn't wanna get hit anymore. That's why when he's a free agent this this summer, I was just like, well, who cares? The guy doesn't you know, he's made enough money. He won a Super Bowl. He doesn't want it anymore.

I know.

But it seems like he's okay with getting hit again. So I don't know whether Tomlin I just think Tomlin Tomlin and Reed to me levitate over everybody else.

Coaches and quarterbacks. Yeah. When we do playoff picks to start the season, about 4 years ago, I learned this. I always pick Pittsburgh no matter what. Pick them this year to make them playoffs.

And everyone's like, you're an idiot. They're they have no quarterback. I'm like, I know. But just always pick Pittsburgh. They get in the playoffs.

Yeah. Always. And I pick McVay now too over here, the Rams. Just though it's the coach.

That was a that was another guy with the futures. I just did over on the Rams. Yeah. I I get that they only have 7 players. Just a minute.

Yep. Just pick them.

As long as they have the QB and 2 receivers, they can move the ball. But Yeah.

We always joke that McVay is the the chef on Chopped, and he's making bolognese out of mayonnaise and a pass.

Who's your holy shit team? I have the chargers.

Holy I I have the who do I say? The, the Rams.

You said the Rams.

Holy shit. This team is in the Super Bowl.

Can I can I have the holy shit? This team there's no way this team is gonna make the Super Bowl? And it's the Houston Texans.

Okay. Now You

hate the Texans.

Right? No. They're they're not good.

The Texans are definitely play a Saturday playoff game like they always do, and it'll be, like, 1 o'clock, and it'll

be Everyone's gonna pick whoever the other team is. Yeah.

Probably in

the Chargers. That Browns game last year. Everything's like black. Oh.

Yes. Slovak, I think, is super overrated. I think Stroud's in his own head, big brothering every quarterback at midfield, and it's completely failed on him.

Yeah. Stroud's had a tough second half of the season.

He's had a brother. Great guy,

I think.

The Ringer fantasy show hates hates Stroud, big brothering.

1 of them

Those who understand.

The Caleb moment? Caleb moment.

He's done

it multiple times. Yeah.

Who else

do you do? It's He did

he did it with Drake May too.

Yeah. 3 straight weeks after the Caleb thing, and then he finally got off of it.

And then I finally missed the Drake May 1.

Yeah. It's been he's been terrible.

He's he's weighing in with his big picture thoughts on everyone he plays against, and it's like, dude, you're in your 2nd year. Settle down. Yeah.

My I I might go with the charges as well, probably, I would say. Just because of their ability to, like, play cold weather, Herbert's so good. I the only thing with Herbert is I'm worried that he's gonna get hurt sometimes. Herbert is almost too good of a player. I kinda I I think he's kind of like the puka nakua of quarterbacks where I'm like, you actually play the game with too much honor.

You don't take you you don't go out of bounds ever.

Yeah. Right.

If there's a throw and Herbert needs to make it, he knows he's gonna get drilled, like, he will get drilled to make the throw.

Put a huge hit on him and that's just Yeah.

That leg hit. Was about it.

But he

had to step in to make the throw. So they're Don't worry about that.

They're 85, Baltimore's 85, Denver's 85 for the 5, 6, 7. So the key for the chargers would have to be to somehow get that 5 seed Mhmm. And try to play Houston. But I don't know how realistic that is with their schedule. But if they can somehow get what do they have left?

That Houston is just dog shit on this road.

Tampa Denver home.

Oh, another 3rd and 10 in Houston. Yeah.

A lot of times.

Tampa Denver at home for the chargers then at Pat's home Vegas. Like, they could sweep that.

Definitely.

And Baltimore, I think, is gonna have a lot of trouble sweeping because they had that weird Christmas situation.

Is it crazy we've talked to playoffs this long? We haven't even mentioned the Ravens. Like, they're

Oh, because we know they're gonna be there.

I know. But what are they gonna do when they get there? Like, I don't have them in the Super Bowl. Does anybody their their stocks

load up. Funny that people get mad about the January Lamar thing. It's like, okay. Because it when is it not gonna like, it's just until he doesn't do the January Lamar thing, that's the way it is. The Raven fans are very touchy about it.

Lamar media is weird. 2 of media is

the worst, though. The 2 of the fan base. The 2 people who think he was good yesterday, he was 23 for 37. No picks. It's like, alright.

I watched the game. Right. Like, I he had 10 terrible throws. Like, stop. I don't trust Tua.

Dolphins fans are frosty for sure.

No. My the the 2 when I think of a Tua play in my head, it's Tyreek Hill turning around to catch an under thrown DP.

Who's your fantasy MVP this year, Craig?

Fantasy MVP. We all over thought Saquon so much.

Yeah.

Him going in the sec and Derrick Henry, the 2 of them. Both of them going in the 2nd round, everybody was afraid of the new oh, the veteran on the new team thing.

Now it's gonna go the other way. Everyone's gonna overvalue it in next year's draft.

Yeah. The new new running back guy. Usual fantasy seasons in history because of what happened with McCaffrey. That was so strange.

That was cool. And we saw who just died of natural causes.

Also, just in general with fantasy, this is the healthiest running back season outside of McCaffrey, which that happened before the season kind of. In season injuries for running backs, this has been the healthiest season in forever, and I think there's definitely you know, it was always get a wide receiver in the 1st round for the last 5 years. Next year, it's gonna swing way back. Everyone's gonna be back in on getting all these running backs in the 1st round, and it will probably regress back to the mean and, like, guys will start getting hurt again.

I'm in the camp of, and I have I have 3 teams, 2 that did badly and 1 that's doing well. But I just I I just wanna have a good QB. That's all I care about. I feel like I can patch together everything else, but, like, anyone who has Lamar or Josh Allen or Burrow in any of these leagues, you're just like, fuck. That guy's probably gonna win.

That's why

you play fantasy. Because of that Allen game against the Rams. Yeah.

Right? A 100%. Just oh. The key point is is getting a guy who can move. I'm so done with pocket passers.

I drafted Goff, who's been good.

He's been solid. Goff. Like this too. Yeah.

He's so tough because you basically need 2 80 and 3 touchdowns that'll go off every single week just for him

to to

get by. Lamar, Josh

Matt Mahomes has turned into that too for a different reason.

As a fan as a quarterback.

Probably 1 of the

You can't start him?

He's the biggest bust at quarterback in Fanages. Yeah.

Before we go Yeah. New York, because you're in New York, Giants versus Jets, which team is more down which franchise fan base is more down in the dumps right now between those 2?

I think the Jets fans are a little in shock, whereas the Giants fans are like, mm-mm. Like, I when I run into people on the street and they're like, oh, you're on the football show, and I go, yeah. And the thing I always say to them wherever I am, like, oh, who's your team? Oh, you know, Cowboys, Texans. The Giants fans always go, nah.

Giants. Like, they're so apologetic.

That point where they're apologizing a while? No.

Yeah. It's just like, our show that we do on NFL Network started in 2016. Every single year, the Jets and Giants have sucked. They've always sucked. The only 1 that didn't suck was the Giants team when they went on the boat with the Odell thing.

Like, that's the only What about

the Danny Dimes playoff win in Minnesota?

That was a fever dream.

Yeah. But that was they were, like, 9 8 days or whatever. Yeah.

But so I think the Giants fans are like, we know we're terrible and we're embarrassed. I think the Jets fans were like they bought some lottery tickets, and before they won it, they, like, put a down payment on a mansion and a boat. And they're like, I'm gonna win this shit and then match 1 number on their lottery ticket. And I think so that I think their, like, their mental health is in question, and they're in shock. Sucks.

Yeah. It's tough because the Red Sox fans used to be like this too before we won the World Series where it's this rare combination of fatalism and thinking things aren't gonna go wrong, but then before the season, like, this crazy optimism. It's like, how are these 2 things the same? Where it's like March spring training in 2000, like, this is it. Here we go.

This year. Got a great rotation. The Vegas the the odds for the Boston team, they could always put them down because they knew all these dumbasses would come from Massachusetts and bet it. And the Jets were have those fans too that they actually think it's gonna work out. And then there's people like Fantasy who's like, this is gonna be a beautiful disaster.

Sean had the best sweep ever. Yeah. The 1 he keeps retweeting about, it was the day the Jets niners were gonna play. I love it. I just wanna go on record.

I think this will be a complete disaster. Everyone will be fired, and Rodgers will retire. And he's probably gonna be right. That like, the Jets season

It might have been the last great tweet.

It might it it was a great tweet. We talked about that on our show. We even brought up Fantasy's tweet. But this season for the Jets is not like a d or a d. It is an f.

It is as bad as it could go. Short of, like, a tragedy happened off the field. Like, it is an f.

But they basically had, what, 7 1 score games that they had the ball Yeah. In the last 3 minutes, but somehow didn't win any of them. And Roger? I don't know how they fixed it either.

Roger's tried his best. You know, he has that doc coming out in 2 weeks. Yeah.

In Igbo.

You can see he was trying I mean, he had his first 300 yard game as

a Jet this week. I he's on

the press tour. He's trying to get get viewers. Now what? A 3 and 11 Jets team we're gonna Yeah.

The funniest thing I watched that whole Jets Miami game because I had Miami in a parlay.

Okay.

Miami was terrible, the whole game. Like, they looked like they didn't wanna be there. Right. They looked like they were the team that was 3 and 10.

Rodgers looked good for the

like, into it. They were trying to win. They were moving the ball. They their offense was better. Mhmm.

And somehow Miami still won the game, and it was basically because the Jets, as usual, just fucked up completely with 3 minutes left. F. Pretty brutal. Yes. So what would you rate this season from, a plus to f minus?

For What's the grade

for the season so far through 14 weeks?

Oh, just as a whole? Yeah.

Just as a whole. For content, story lines, excitement, everything.

I think it's like a b plus because we have just some really good teams. Like, I mentioned that thing in the NFC North is fun. That Bills Rams game we just watched was amazing. That Lions game against the Packers was a 3431. Like, we've got some Rembrandts.

We've got some like, when you say, what's the game of the year? We have, like, 8 or 9 games of the year, and I like that the quarterbacks aren't hurt.

Like, I you know, like, that's really

what I care about. Allen's out there. Mahomes out there. Even Burrow and a losing team, like, you get to watch those guys. You don't have to turn on the Thursday nighter, and it's Taylor Heineke versus Mitch Trubisky.

I mean, we did lose Aidan O'Connell.

We lost Aidan, but I heard it's not as bad as we thought. Maybe they'll be coming back. Maybe

they'll be back.

But the end of Ava cast for Aidan O'Connell. Yeah.

What do what do you have for a grade?

Probably a minus. I See? I think it's been really fun. I mean, the Lions' storyline is amazing. I feel like everybody in in in America wants the Lions to win a Super Bowl.

Also, they're they're the rare public team that's actually really fun to watch every week. I genuinely enjoy watching their offense. When Ja'Marr Gibbs is in the game, I'm like, I don't even know I'm on a fantasy team. Ja'Marr Gibbs is in. Yeah.

You feel like you do.

The Goff storyline's great. The the weird 12 and 1 Chiefs is fun. Saquon going to the Eagles and then maybe breaking the rushing record is unbelievable. I think it's been really really fun year.

I would be at an a minus, but the Drake May thing puts me at a solid day. I'm just out of my mind about the how fun this Drake May thing's been. I can't believe he's this good right already. I just can't believe it.

It is really cool.

It's it's crazy that he's this far along and, you know, I've had terrible quarterbacks, and I've had the greatest quarterback ever. Like, you just I don't know if he's gonna be in even in the ballpark of somebody like Brady, but he's clearly a franchise guy. Like, worst case scenario, I feel like he could at least be like Herbert.

All you care about is you you got a guy.

We have a guy. Who knows what all you need for a guy?

Well, I can't believe I did the b plus then without mentioning I mean, I I think, like, they are huge. There's 2 massive blemishes on the season. The Jets, just complete disaster, and the Bears. I mean, the Bears are a massive disappointment from start to finish. If the Jets are an f, the Bears are worth

a plus. New coach, I thought you guys bumped back. Oh 0, no. That was the absolute.

To get the bump. Yeah. Like, the Saints got the bump with

that guy. The clogger bumped you back.

That niners Bears game Tom Brown. Maybe the worst game of the year. I mean, it was an unbelievably terrible pathetic game.

That was the only pick I lost, and it was over 5 minutes in the game.

You thought the Bears are gonna win? I they were covered.

I did. I was like, new coach bump.

Definitely.

They figured out Caleb just getting rid of the ball fast. They were way worse than

they were under Matt Eberfluss. So think about that. Like, they looked way worse. Like, they should brought Eberfluss back. They would have a better performance.

Well, it's like Eberflus leaves. The defense probably gets worse, and then you you you promote the guy running the offense, and now you have a

different person running the offense.

Right. Gets messy quick.

You you get suckered by that, though. Yeah. The locker room was so excited about the new guy, and they're gonna be ready to play. They were so bad in that game.

Well, that was like when Antonio Pierce got the job, and they were smoking cigars after the first win. And then within 9 months, Davonte Adams is like, get the fuck out of here. I'm glad you brought

that up. The cigars. Because, like, I have landed on this take, and I I'd say it all, never hire an interim coach. I don't care what happens. The interim coach is you get out of a miserable marriage.

You're just so pissed and there's so and you like, the next girlfriend you meet, you fucking marry her. You don't take her to Cabo. You marry her. It never works out. Have her fling.

Do it. Fine. Don't I mean

She made me to

the side of the rebound. Watch the states win a couple more games, and they're like, I don't know. This Darren Rizzie gets them to compete. Don't hire Darren Rizzie. Do respect him.

The only interim coach who actually should've been hired was Pit Boss Rich, the Raiders guy. Oh,

Tom Cabel?

Rich Brissuccia, whatever.

Oh, Visaccia. Yeah. Visaccia.

Team's coach.

Pit Boss Rich. Visaccia. He'd come in with, like, alright, guys. I'll be back in 20.

Damn right. Changing out 200. Derek Carr, they were in the playoffs that day.

Yeah. I like Pit Boss.

And then I use the special teams coach again. But, no, it's don't ever hire the interim coach. You're marrying the fling after the marriage. It's terrible.

My dream is Drake May, year 2. Yeah. Vrabel. Brian Daybell, offensive coordinator. Let's go.

Who do you do you wanna resign

head coach opening though, Bill.

What are you

talking about?

Well, I'm there there might be if we lose these last 4 games. The problem is we're gonna go to Arizona, and he's probably gonna throw for, like, 360 and beat Arizona. And then I know. Mayo keep his job.

Do you

want a tackle or a wide receiver in the draft? Thanks for asking. Mhmm. Because I've obviously studied a lot. My dad is now wading into, the draft waters as well.

Okay. Just finding out about this T Mac character, this wide receiver.

Sure.

It doesn't feel like they're gonna be a top they're gonna be a top 5 team, but there's no top 5 left tackle, which sets us up for the trade down, which I'd feel great about if we had an owner that wasn't 83 years old, and we had an actual GM and not an interim GM. Mhmm. But it feels like they have to trade back. I'm in the camp of I I would take Conter if we had the 3rd pick. Really?

If he's there.

He just seems like he's gonna be a superstar.

Uh-huh. Over

over 10. I'm gonna change my mind on this a 100 times, but, like, it just seems like sometimes these guys get in the draft, and everybody's just like, that guy's special. And he just seems like that guy's special guy. Mhmm. You could've said this about Marvin Harrison last year, though, and he hasn't turned it to be that special.

But there's no left tackle. This is the 1 draft where there's, like, no even, like, a Joe Alt.

Yeah. Probably not 1 worthy of a top 3 pick. No.

Who's the defensive line guy? There's, like, an awesome, like, defensive tackle. That's that's another 1. Like, when does it goes wrong to have, like, an awesome defensive tackle? Craig,

have you had have you had some takes on where Shador is gonna go? Because

I mean, he certainly feels like a Raider to me.

The Vegas the father son Vegas thing feels like

a Perfect.

But It's so Raiders y.

What if the Giants get the number 1 pick? Because the worst fit of all time is the Mara family and the Sanders family.

Oh my god.

Not at all.

But Yeah.

What if they get the number 1 pick and he's the guy? Raiders feels perfect. The Giants might get it, though.

Well, they almost screwed it up yesterday, and then the kicker missed.

There was a conspiracy theory that, Chador was tweeting, thank you, lord, every time the Raiders lost because he wanted to go to the Raiders. Uh-huh. It happened for 11 weeks, it was perfect. Even when they were on a buy, you saw this thing. Tweet it that week.

That's great.

But I the Raiders, I think, won, and then he tweeted it. And so it turns out not true. But for there was a while there where I was, like, Chador and Deion are angling to get to Vegas.

It is the most fun destination for those guys. Yeah. It's amazing. The team's a disaster every year anyway, so we might as well have this thing.

And Bowers is sitting right there now, like, he's on our already has a stud. And, like, let's just have a carnival. At Dion make Dion the coach. Why not? Have Shadrabe the quarterback.

It'd be great content. I'd be

I had somebody who knows stuff tell me about the Pats. Like, if that job did become available, they were like they said, you know, it's actually, like, a destination job now because because of Drake May. I was like, it's like, I need a cigarette.

6 to midnight, Bill. So just

give me you got a lighter. I just need a cigarette. I just wanna reflect this. But, I think with, Vegas, the fun part would just be having some sort of personality with that franchise.

Well, we had it in Pierce. Like, that's the guy. We smoked cigars. I won the Super Bowl. But he just looks miserable now because they hired the interim coach.

You don't do that.

I can't

do it. Can't do it.

I like your theory.

Thank you.

Alright. I'm going a, a minus, b plus. Kyle Brandt, great to see you as always.

Craig, well Thanks, Craig. Pleasure.

Alright. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacoby and Goldsberry. Thanks to Kyle and Craig. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerutti and Jesse Lopez.

Thanks to Gehao and Jack. Thanks to you guys for making it through our 2nd podcast of the week. I'm gonna have another 1 on Thursday. I'm gonna have an NBA 6 pack and a $1,000,000 picks. I'm gonna have a guest.

Stay tuned. Get ready to buckle up. I'll see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC. Gambling problem, call 100 gambler or visit rgdashhelp.com.

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