Transcript of Most Surprising NBA Player Leaps With Tim Legler, Plus NFL Holiday Picks With Joe House

The Bill Simmons podcast, presented by the Ringer podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables episode on Monday night. It was me and Van Lathen and Chris Ryan talking about F1, a 2025 movie that we did in 2025, second one of the year. We also did Sinners earlier in the year. I think there's only five movies we've done in the same year they came out in the nine-year history of the rewatchable. We did Get Out, we did Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, we did Top Gun Maverick. There might have been one other one. So this is the fifth of the sixth one. But I really love F1. I think it's a great sports movie. It's a genre that has increasingly not churned out the high, high-end sports movies. I was thinking about this because Any Given Sunday was on Pluto. Yeah, I was checking on Pluto. I'm not going to apologize. Any Given Sunday was on, and I was thinking about that incredible run of late '90s, basically from '94 all the way through the late '90s into the early 2000s when just awesome iconic sports movies. We're just not making them in the same way anymore.

If we're making them, they're either a small scale or we've run out of ideas for them. I don't know what's going on. But anyway, really enjoyed F1. Enjoyed Brad Pitt. Enjoyed everything. I'm not even a racing guy, but we covered all the angles in that one. You could check out, though, obviously with Christmas on Thursday, We're scaling back big time on the content on the Ringer this week. But this is the last podcast for this week. You can check out all of our other podcasts that we have because everybody went at least once, I think. We'll have enough to keep you warm over the holidays. Anyway, coming up on this podcast, Tim Legler. We had a lot of NBA stuff to cover. He hasn't been on in a few weeks. We spent a little time talking about contenders, but a lot of time talking about players that have gone up a level this season. I also threw myself exteria at him that I have about this season that I came up with last night. He's on, and then Joe House is back to do Ringer 107 with me. Ringer 107 is Ben and Chambles. Basically, looking at the playoffs at this point, hoping we could turn it around.

But some fun games to talk about. Basketball, then football. That's the podcast. We'll take a break. Bring him Pearl Jam. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a countdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting help you need, State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right. Happy holidays to our guy Tim Legler. Doing a Christmas. What Christmas game are you doing?

Houston Rockets at Lakers. It's the prime time, 8: 00 PM Eastern, man. I'm really looking forward to it. And Bill, I'm just looking forward to calling a game. Even though Christmas is always affecting family time, we get that. But I haven't called a game. The ESPN, ABC, have not had any games since Thanksgiving Eve.

Wow. What have you been doing with yourself?

A lot of pods, a lot of I'm still watching games, a lot of pod. But hey, listen, it's not the worst thing. My life will disappear later in the year when the playoffs get here. So I say goodbye to my family for a while. So I'm just a lot of family time, but still watching, obviously, and doing a lot of this stuff, man, because There's a lot of really interesting stuff in the league right now.

Well, I hope all the Lakers are playing in that game, but I'm dubious. I want to start here. How many contenders do we actually have right now? So if I did this, I did this two weeks ago on my pod, and I said, Okay, see, Denver, Houston, maybe the Spurs, maybe the Knicks. But it was really three, then maybe two. But now I look at it two weeks later, and I think Detroit has a real case now with the way they've still been holding up their play. Minnesota, especially with the OKC win the other night. There's a couple other teams, but how many is the exact number for you now? Because I think you can make a case for seven. Does that sound right?

I'm adding. I would have Detroit New York from the Eastern Conference, obviously Oklahoma City. Then I would include Denver, Houston, Minnesota. I don't think you can rule out the Lakers necessarily, man. I don't know that... Look, I don't know that any of these teams And then did I say Minnesota or San Antonio?

San Antonio will be this.

So we have the same seven. Maybe I have one more. Do you have the Lakers in there?

I don't. I have four teams after that that I just wrote down, but I wouldn't put them in now if my life depended on it. And by the way, one of those teams is the Boston Celtics. Just full transparency.

Yeah, no, that's fine. I get that, too. I understand. Listen, that's been, I think, one of the better stories in the league is what they've done. Them and Philly, I think both of those teams, what they've been able to do with Boston not having Tatum and really just, I think, holes in their roster. To be able to do what they've done. And in Philadelphia, the uncertainty of when Embiid is going to play. You didn't have Paul George at the start of the year. And when Embiid does play. It's a totally different style you adapt to. And those two teams are third and fourth in the Eastern Conference. I did not, for the life of me, see that coming. If you told me Embiid was missing the amount of time he's missed in Paul George, there's no way I have Philly probably in the top eight in the East. Boston, I thought at best, they were going to probably be in that five, six, seven area. So both of those teams have overachieved because they've been carried by a couple of guys offensively. But I get why you'd include Boston in that. Why not? Particularly if these reports are that Tatum is going to come back in March and he might be back for a month before the playoffs would start.

Yeah, they absolutely probably should be included to win the East, at least. I don't know if any of these teams legitimately are beating Oklahoma sitting in a seven-game series? No. So the real question is, who could be the last team standing against them in the West? And who could be the last team standing from the Eastern Conference? That's really what we're talking about.

Yeah, you're comparing it almost to last year. Nobody would add Indiana as a contender, but all of a sudden, they were in the finals. And it didn't make sense as it was happening, and then it happened. Yeah, the four I had that I just don't know. Boston, who's 33 to one to win the title right now. The Lakers, 22 to one. The Cavs, 21. Orlando, 35 to one. And I think the Cavs in Orlando is a classic, let's wait and see here, two months. I'm more concerned for the Cavs than Orlando. And I think with the Cavs, they've only had their top four and four of the 29 games. But there's a general malaise, and there's just red flags going off, plus the fact that they can't fix their roster. Orlando, we know we have. They fit in Bane. They're going to get healthier as the year goes along. And I think they're a safer bet. But I mean, the Cavs, can you figure it out at all?

What's going on?

And I think to answer your question, the criteria I use when you hear the word contender for me is, can you realistically see this team? Like, either In the Western conference, that would mean in the conference finals. Yes. And if you're in the East, can you realistically see them in the NBA finals? I think that's the question. And that's why for me, what I've seen out of Cleveland is really disturbing. Now, I I know that they've had health issues like a lot of teams, but there's something, there's a flatness about them and a lack of defensive presence that concerns me. I think Orlando, for the most part, has a toughness that they play with most nights. They haven't been healthy either. They missed Bancaro for a while, comes back. Now, you don't have Wagner. Bane struggled big time early. I think he was almost like, Yeah, a new place. It's always weird for a guy that's a high volume shot taker, trying fit into this team. He's found his stride. So he's answered a lot of what they needed from a year ago. They just haven't had their top guys on the court for any sustained stretch with Wagner and Bancaro, last year included, till the second half of the year.

So I'm actually thinking they've got to run in them.

But Cleveland could say that, too. Cleveland could say that, too. The difference is, Orlando seems to have fight, regardless of who's out there or not. And Cleveland, it comes and goes. And that's the part that's concerning.

And I think I would differentiate the two of them this way. Here's why I would put them in different categories. Relative to what I thought their ceiling was and what I saw it at them last year, I think Orlando is closer to that. They got a better chance to hit that. Cleveland is not the same. They were absolutely unstoppable offensively last year. And the nights this year, when their offense has clicked, their defense hasn't been close to good enough. I don't know exactly everything that's going on. Health played a factor, but it's more than that. It's more than that when you watch them. Last year, teams absolutely had no chance to try to slow them down or defend them. The way that they moved the ball, the way they shot the ball, they ran you out of buildings with these huge runs. And a lot of times, they would take place in the first half. They'd go up 15, 20 points early second quarter. That was a regular night for them. You're not seeing that as much this year. I think they're much further from what they were at their best a year ago compared to the Magic.

Well, it feels like Detroit took their mojo and their identity and everything. Last year, Cleveland, I forget how many games they won, but it was 16, 17. It was over 15. And that's when you know you're a really good team and you can put together streaks. This Cleveland team that we have now I don't think it would win four in a row. But when I think of the finals, though, I feel like you have to play defense. I need a top 10 player. I'm just starting there. Even if you look at Indiana last year, which didn't make sense as was happening, but by the end of the year, it felt like Caliburton was a top 10, 12 guy in the league. They had a good coach. They could defend. They had a style that made sense when you watched it. And the East was just weird and flawed and strange. And the series where they beat the Cavs in five, that was just a weird series in general. Giannis got hurt. There were reasons for it. I still feel like you need that top 10 to 12 guy. So when you mention the Lakers, even though their record is way better than I think what the eye test is for them, and especially if they have one injury to anybody, it feels like they're just a completely different team.

But they still have the star power. I wouldn't want to see them in a series. I went to Lakers Clipper Saturday Night Likes. No Reeves. Luca gets her at the beginning of the third quarter. Kawhi and LeBron, I'm not going to say they don't like each other, but there is a competitive dislike when they're on the court together. It really was on at one point. Lebron turned it on for about 10 minutes, and he pulled the Lakers back to eight. I swear to God, he looked like LeBron again. We're all sitting there going, this is unbelievable. He's in his 40s now. We were like, how is he still doing this? And then they missed some shots. The moment fated away. But just watching that, I was like, All right, I'm not ruling these guys out yet.

Yeah, I watched a good chunk of that game and I was thinking the same thing. And that's one of the reasons that it just belies what we all know about biomechanics and physiology for professional athletes, what he's doing. I It's one thing to have good scoring nights at his age. That even is unprecedented at his age. But even you get into your late 30s, if you're a player on that level, you're still going to have nights where you score the ball well. What should not happen is that you look like one of the fastest guys on the floor. When I watch him, I go, how does that make any sense whatsoever? How is it possible? He can still look like the best athlete on the for stretches of games north of 40 this many years into the league. The other night, I think, reminded you of that. And that's why for the Lakers, and I know a lot of people that want to hate on the Lakers, and they look at this team and their defense is so bad some nights, and you go, I don't include them in the mix. I go, How can you really dismiss a team with those three guys if they're all healthy?

Because there's not a team in this league that has three guys on that level that can command a defense and control a defense the way they can with their passing scoring. Nobody has three of them on that level. And a guy like Luka, who's been, for the most part throughout his career, pretty good big game player, LeBron, obviously. Can you really completely dismiss them? So That's why they're going to hang around and be included.

And trade possibilities with them, too, with all the expirings they have. Even last night, Draymon melted down again. Poor Steve Kerr. He just needs a full-time therapist, marriage counselor, just to deal with the But Draymon melts down again. And the difference this time around versus when he was at the level he was at, I just don't think he's quite at the same level anymore. So you have the same up and down emotional stuff But you're not backing up with the same play. He's shooting under 40% legs. He's like 39. 8. His two-point stuff is just gone. The free throw, he doesn't get to the line. His turnovers are the highest they've ever been. And offensively, he's just an after I thought in a league where the centers have gotten bigger, every night, there's a Schengen, there's a Robert Williams and Clingon together. The league just has more size. And last time was the first night, I was like, I wonder if they would trade him. I I wonder if there was a Rui Hachimura and a contract for Draymon, just like, let's just mix this up and go in a different direction. Or with Sabona sitting out there for the Kings, could that be a Draymon, Kamenga and Picks and let's just try to get a guy.

Did your mind go there last night? Because this is yet again another Draymon saga.

My mind's gone there for years, Bill, with regard to this story for years. And last night, people hit me up today about it, and I didn't see the game, but I went and watched what happened. I watched the interaction. I don't know exactly. It's hard to tell everything that was said. But Steve Kerr is a fiery guy. And so obviously this thing really escalated in that huddle. Moses Moody gets up at one point. He's trying to get in between them. It looked to me to calm Draymon down more than anything. I will tell you this. In the years that I played in the league and all the years I've covered the league, I saw guys get thrown out of huddles. I saw guys get thrown off the bench and sent to the locker room. I saw guys get thrown out of practice. I never saw a guy, by his own volition, get up and walk to the locker during the game. So at the time, you're not sure. You can't tell. Did Kerr throw him out of the huddle? And then you find out Kerr says no. And Draymond said the same thing. And then you know it's true because later Kerr was asked, Well, when he came back to the bench early fourth quarter, whenever it was, were you going to put it back in the game?

He said, No, absolutely not. It was the quickest answer. No. He left the team. He left the huddle. He went to the locker room. No, he was not going back in the game. I personally haven't seen it. Now, maybe it has happened. I don't know over time that it happened. Certainly not when my eyeballs saw it. That, to me, is pretty big. That's a pretty big thing. You walk away from the team in a five-point game when your team is a 500 team, every one of these matter, and you just get up and leave because you say, Oh, I just thought it'd be better if I cool down and separate myself from the situation. It's really unchartet territory in a lot of ways. You don't see this. And that's why I'm curious to see what the Does this move the needle at all for them when you combine it with some of his offensive issues he's had this year, which is a low point for him in his career, combined with this stuff? And are the dividends with the winning and the leadership and the defense, is all that stuff still outweying all of that?

Because there was a time that no matter what the offense was, it was good enough. And the emotional outburst, okay, because he was giving you world-class playmaking, IQ, and defense. Now How you go, is that stuff still on that level to offset the offense plus this? I think it's probably right about that point where it feels like almost a wash. So what would they do? I still doubt they would I never do it and ever move them.

Oh, I don't doubt it. I think they would. I think they would. And if I'm another team... The reason this initially came up was we're talking about the Lakers, a team that when they put their best three guys together, have a lot of trouble on defense. And the net ratings with LeBron and Reeves and Luka together just hasn't been good. It makes sense. You have three of the five guys you have out there and their defensive liabilities. Lebron is not a defensive liability if he's going all out, but I think it's hard for him to go out for two straight hours. You put Drayman on that team, reinvigorated with, I can't believe they traded me. I'm going to triple down and be a maniac. And that's what the Lakers need. So I don't know. That one struck out to me. And then just the with the way that their rookie center has evolved, who I think is a gem. I mean, congrats to them. But I think Sabonis is expendable to them. I want to talk about that later. But I think Sabonis is on the table, and he should be a fear of the Kings.

You stink Anyway, why wouldn't you trade him?

Let me follow up first on what you said about Draymond. I completely agree with you, by the way. I think it would be that final adrenaline push from Draymond. If something like that were to go down, I do think he's a guy that's going to help somebody win games. There's no doubt. When it's been the totality of how long it's going on in Golden State and you reach this point, you look up your 500 team, you're at the end of the Curry era. You don't look like a team that can contend. Would you be willing to do it? I still don't think they would. But if they did, I do think there's something more there still for Draymond Green with something to prove if he were to go to a team that was playing for something and what he could add. I Yeah, you're talking about one of them more competitive- You're talking about one of that, I think he ends up in Golden State the rest of the year.

Well, you're talking about one of the most competitive non-superstars we've had this century. And if they did trade him, the fire that would be lit under him. The bigger question for me is, they're not on my contender list. They're not on yours either. They do need to do something. They only have a couple of contracts. They're paying Butler almost 55 million. Curry's, they're not trading. So it really moves down to like, Kominga plus contracts And it just gets easier if it's with the way the apron is for Kominga and J. I like the fit for the Lakers. Obviously, he has a long relationship with LeBron and the clutch factor, which I don't even know matters anymore with the Lakers. But that one jumped out to me. And then could the Warriors turn contracts and pics into one more premium guy? And if you were them, does that even matter? Has the ship sailed? Can you say the ship sailed when you have Steph Curry, you can't sail the ship as long as he's on the team, right?

Totally agree with that. He can't. Curry, there's not been this big time discernible drop off in what he's capable of. There's just not enough on that team to where now you can load up on him in a different way than you were ever able to defensively. You don't have to worry about the counters that they run and over committing to him the way they would make you pay in the past. This team doesn't do it to that extent. Even Jimmy Butler, when it ends up with Jimmy Butler's hands, that feels a lot different if you run to it, Steph coming off a dribble handoff and the ball ends up back in Jimmy's hands. That's a lot different than what it used to look like when that ball ended up with Clay Thompson. And a quick release three in the way that they would just punish you if you tried to play on the top side of Steph or you didn't communicate the switches or the downscreens properly and all that running he does. They punished you in a way they don't as much. And so no, it's just not enough. Curry, to me, would still have that in him if he had enough around him.

If you had to go and figure out a way to bring in a guy, like we're talking on that level, that's a needle mover for them, you would have a serious depth issue, most likely with this team. But if you had Jimmy Butler, you had Steph Curry, you added another star player to the mix, very difficult to just dismiss Steph Curry's chances if he had one more guy I like that.

I like this a bonus idea just because the offense that he brings in the playmaking and the way his hoops IQ offensively, I think fits in with who they are and what they do. When we were texting about stuff to talk about today, and we have a segment coming up that I'm excited about, but you mentioned how we're heading the dog days right now and how this gets dangerous for a bunch of reasons. One, the trade deadline is coming up. Your name gets thrown around. No matter what team you're, all of a sudden you're on Hoops Hype, you're on NBA Today with Shams. I'm hearing... You're in the rumor mill, you're on Twitter. There's Reddit boards making up fake trades about you. Ten teams are just completely unhappy. Five teams are probably happy they suck. Another seven are like, Could we be good? Maybe not. Who knows? And then you have the seven, eight contenders. What is it like when you're on a team like this during the dog days? What danger signs and what can go wrong as you hit the holidays and the trade deadlines coming up?

It's tough because what happens is you get to this time of the year, the adrenaline from the newness of the season is gone. That's worn off now. Teams are starting to find out what they really are when you've played a third of the season. You start to have a better idea, are you on the outside looking in or not? And that adrenaline you were getting from just the freshness when every guy in the thinks they're going to crack it and everybody thinks their role is going to be expanded and everybody's excited. Now everything has sunk in. The reality for every player and every team is sunk in. The adrenaline that you then get for the playoffs, that's too far off in the future. So this middle third of the season, these are the toughest games. Not to mention, in fact, a lot of these road games are in really cold places. Oh, yeah. All that stuff. I remember when I was playing in the league, being in Washington, and then middle of the winter, you'd get that two-game trip to Miami, Orlando. It was like, Oh, my God. Thank God. You come out of the hotel and your joints felt good.

You went to shoot around, and it was this lightness in the air because it was warm and you felt good. It was fun. You wanted to go play pickup ball. This is great. A lot of these cities is not, man. You're bundled up getting off the bus.

So Minnesota doesn't have that.

Right, exactly. A lot A lot of cities in the league check that box. So that's there all the time. The injury and fatigue is there, and you're still a couple of months away from the horizon when the real meaningful stuff comes. So this is the toughest time of the year. And this is when, because of it, there can be lulls with teams that change the way front offices view certain guys that weren't really going to be involved in being moved. This is the tough of the year when there could be this lull from a production standpoint, or your team starts losing games because all the things I just mentioned pile up, and now they make a move that was not foreseen. I think that that's the danger that you run into in this 15 to 20 game stretch we're about to start.

And there's the adrenaline rush if you do make a move. It's like, Hey, we're different.

No doubt about it.

Look at us. The Celtics are in a unique situation just because they have this Tatum come back looming. So it's like, you have the playoffs far away, but then you're also like, Hey, we're hanging tough here. We're the three-seed, and we might get the guy who was third in MVP last year back. Spurs, I think, is another one that I don't... It's been so rare for them to have all their guys. And Wemby was out, he's back. Now you see as they try to figure out with Castle and Harper, with Wemby and Fox, just having those four guys playing together for a month straight, I think, is a huge win for them. Houston's the one I'm watching from I don't want to say a malaise standpoint, but just a... And you're getting them on Christmas. And we're taping this before the Tuesday games today, but they lost three OT games in the last week. Their net rating, all their rebounding stuff like that, we don't need to make the cases for why they're great. They almost have too many options at crunch time, where sometimes I feel like they're too heavy on going as Schengen.

When you have Durant there, you have Sheppard who's been lights out. Thompson feels like he can beat anybody one-on-one. You got Jibari in the corner. I think they're almost trying to figure out, what we have more offense than we realized, what are we? So what are they?

Well, here's the thing that they're dealing with right now. They've got to be better at end of offense. Actually, it's even starting before the end of the game. What teams have been doing lately to the Rockets? Kevin Durant is getting hit with these blitzes at half-court, even when there's not a ball screen. He's coming over half-court and teams are... It almost looks at first like they're morphing into some a zone, and then that second guy on top just runs up, and they're forcing him to give the ball up over half court. It's happened throughout the game, but it's particularly been prevalent in the fourth quarters of these games, and they have not handled it well. I don't like their identity offensively in close games. One thing I said when they got Durant, obviously, they needed the offensive firepower. This was an elite defensive team, an elite rebounding team. They didn't have enough. They didn't have guys you trusted down the stretch. And Shin Gun, as good as he is, is not a guy that got every answer to be your guy down the stretch of fourth quarters, like some of the stars in this league.

He's not a Jokić. He's not a Shay. He's not a Tatum. He's not a curry. He's not on that level offensively. So they got by with their defense rebounding. Where's the offense coming from? They get Kevin Durant. I didn't want them to be just all about Durant late in games. Give them the ball and just let them go. That's how they're going to play offensive. It's not good enough in this league, not against the Oklahoma City Thunder, which was the team they were comparing themselves to. Well, now you're finding teams are just getting the ball out of his hands, and they're not worried about what's happening on the back end of that with how Houston is making them pay for that. That's their big riddle to solve. I'm going to do a heavy dive on the last couple of games before I do the Christmas night game to see when that surfaces in that game, which if I know JJ Redick, it's going to because he's been watching their results as well, what is the problem with why they're not able to capitalize more on those possessions and why their end of game offense hasn't been very good.

The New Orleans game was the one that stands out to me. Blowing a lead against a team like that. Look, they've won five straight games. They're playing better, but it's the Pelicans. And you've got almost a 20-point lead in that game in the second half. You've got to close that game. You can't lose that game. And it really was about their offense letting them down. And so that's to me, what I'm looking at with them right now. They don't have a great identity offensively down the stretch of games, Bill, and they don't know how to play out of teams blitzing the rent and giving it up and how to make you pay because there's not enough shooting on the floor most times. And maybe the Ahmed Thompson factor isn't quite what they thought it would be with that leap. So that's really been their biggest issue. Teams are figuring them out a little bit in that way. They've got to have an answer for that now.

Yeah, the shooting piece is the thing that jumps out to me because I feel like when I watch them, I like when Sheppard's out for them and when he's out there in crunch time for them. I just think he solves issues. Then they also get fast breaks when he's out there. And when they don't, they just seem like they slow down. But I swear, I see the same thing with you with how clumsy the crunch time is. And yet I like all their options. I feel like there's stuff they haven't explored. They never have Sheppard come up and set pics at the top of the key. Do a little high screen with Durant. Use him as a screener the same way some teams use their best guards. It seems like they fall in this habit of like, Shit, all right, Schengen, and they just dump it to him, which I don't think can work in a playoff series for two weeks. It's too easy to stop. So they'll figure it out.

Yeah, they don't have, in my opinion, enough motion off of their entry to Schengen or to Rants.

Everybody stands.

It turns into a lot of standing and watching. For Ammon, that means he's going They'll probably slash or get a lob or get on the offensive glass. It's crazy because they shoot the second-highest percentage in the league from the three. But the reason that is because they take fewer than anybody. They're so selective in their shots. Now, to their credit, they're taking shots that they can make that's good. In some ways, refreshing that they're not taking 45, 53s like a lot of teams is like. That's fine. They're taking 30, which is a very low number in this league. They shoot a high percentage, but it feels like they don't move off the ball or keep weak sides occupied at all when the ball gets dumped into Shingun or they're letting Durant go into his thing. And so offensively, at times, it bogs down to the point where they look guardable. It feels like they got more talent than that.

What team would you have wanted to come off the bench for and play 15 minutes as you watch all these teams? I just have to ask because we're in an era now where a team shoot 45 threes a game. Is there a dream team for you when you watch it?

Take your pick. I mean, there's a ton of teams that you know that when there's not a shot on the court that can be taken, that anybody would frown at, it's like nirvana. Cleveland would be a team I would think of. There is no three-point shot that any of their spot-up shooter guys can take that anybody, even Bats and I had. I know this because I'll be sitting there courtside sometimes, calling a game, and a shot will be taken three 20 seconds into the shot clock, heavily contested, off one pass. And my eyes immediately divert to the coaching staff in that situation. And no one reacts to it at all. I'm going, wow. So I guess it's just, yeah, just live with everything. So there's a lot of teams in this league that I can't imagine the mental freedom that a lot of guys have that played a similar style game to me.

You would enjoy the Simon's role on the Celtics when he's trying to basically carry offense when Jalen's out and one of the guards is out. And like, Simon's just... No shot is bad. Just take all of them. We're going to take a break, and then we're going to play a little game called Guys who are even better than you think. I like it. All right, here's the task, Tim Legar. Guys who are even better than you think. Here's the premise. These might be people people aren't talking about enough, which is an I've never used sports media thing where people aren't talking about blank. Usually, we're talking a little bit. Or people who are actually really good, but we don't even understand how good they are or actually what is happening beyond even a level you might have expected. So I made a whole list. I asked you to make a whole list. Let's just go back and forth. Who was the first guy, given the parameters of this that you thought of?

Jalen Johnson. He's the first guy for me.

He's on my list as well.

He's blowing me away right now with how easy he's making this look. This guy is not just putting up 22, 8, and 6 nights. This guy is having 35, 13, and 9 nights. You're talking about the numbers that you see a Jokuj put up or a Luca put up. He's doing that damn near every night. Now, he had an opportunity to get extended freedom when Trey was hurt, but it hasn't stopped since Trey came back. It's his team. And the thing, I was actually watching him the other night and I was thinking to myself, man, does this guy's smoothness hurt him? Because it's so effortless that it almost looks like there's a lack of intensity because it's that easy for him. I don't think there is a lack of intensity.

You know what that, Ryan? I just think he got talented. I just think he got talented. It's a little T-Mack-ish because I agree with you. Everything is so smooth. It almost seems like he's not going all out, but he is going all out because his muscles just move differently. He's averaging 24, 11, and 8 right now.

That's insane, man. I think if you take away the first month of the season, those numbers are significantly higher than that. He's had stretches of 10 games where he's been averaging over 30 points a game, double-digit rebounds, and almost 10 assists. These are the numbers reserved for the true top-tier alphas in this league, and has been doing that pretty much all year for Atlanta. So he was the first guy I thought of. And it's crazy because he took a big leap last year, and I'm going, well, you talk about the most improved player and stuff like that. Typically, it doesn't go to guys like this who already arrived at a certain level last year, and now they just take it. Like, those guys usually get excluded. But to me, he's so much better than he was last year. I don't think it's blasphemous to throw him into that conversation.

Yeah. Like, six Two weeks ago when the Yannis Trade stuff started, and I was saying how I thought Atlanta was the team that made the most sense because of the pics, the assets, the expirings. But I was saying Jalen Johnson can't be in it. I'm not trading Yannis unless I get to also keep Jalen Johnson because then I have these two guys together. And some people are pushing back, especially the Bucks fans that I know are like, well, we're getting Jalen Johnson in Yannis Trade. That's ridiculous. I'm like, I don't think they're trading Jalen Johnson. Six weeks later, untouchable. Like, If I'm them and you're like, you could have Yannis for Jalen Johnson, obviously, you'd have to have a seven-hour meeting about it. But I would much rather have the younger guy who keeps ascending and try to figure out a way to also bring Giannis into it versus making him the centerpiece. I just don't think there's a world where they trade him at this point.

I totally agree because of the explosion in his offense over the last 18 months. There's no telling what the ultimate ceiling is. When you have a guy that young, that talented who's doing it this easily, you really don't even know how much more there is to grow. So the uncertainty of that is so risky to give up on and send somewhere else because even though Yannis is obviously a more known commodity right now, you also know 100% what his ceiling is. You don't have any idea what J. Johnson's ceiling is. So that would be, to me, a really risky, dangerous thing. And again, to your point, I'm not considering I'm trying to acquire them unless I can figure out a way to pair them together because I want something special. I don't want just this one in, one out type situation. We got this in, but we lost all this. Are you going to feel like you're in the same boat where you were? Even though Yannis, I agree, he's on a different level right now, I couldn't give up on all that upside without knowing. I would lose sleep over that as a GM knowing I moved a guy like that that's grown this much in a year and a half.

He's only 24 years old. Yannis, who's had been dinged with some injuries the last couple of years. It was a lot of miles on him already. You need Johnson with Yannis, and that's the only reason to do it. So I still feel like that's the honest trade that makes sense. Everybody seems to feel like it's going to be till the summer. But when you see the Bucks are 11 and 18, plus they have that New Orleans pick, plus they have some other stuff, who knows? My first guy, you're going to laugh. Nicole Jokuj. I just want to I'm going to talk about the stats because we're used to it now. It's been a whole decade of this. But right now, he's averaging a 29, 12, and 11. He's shooting 61%, but 41% from three. He has a 34. 9 PR, which is like two and a half points higher than his usual. He's leading the NBA in rebounds and assists, which I didn't realize until today. Did you know that?

Yeah, I did know that. It's been going on for a while because it came up with a one day, a researcher sent me a note because we were talking about him on some segment, and it was like, he'd be the first one ever to do it.

Ever.

If he could pull this off.

By the way, he's leading Kade by one and a half assists, and he's leading Towns by a half a rebound. He's also only five guys ever have gone 25 plus points a game and 60% field goals. But I was like, I thought Wilt did it. And it's like, no, Wilt led the league in assists that one year. He also led the league in rebounds that one year. He led the league in points, but he never did the assist rebounds at the same So you just look at the basketball reference and you watch the six years as he just keep somehow getting better. And I actually think it doesn't get enough attention.

Well, Bill, I was fortunate enough last year, and my buddy Dave Pash and I talked about this in the moment right after the game, back at the hotel, have a glass of wine. The next day, we were continuing to talk. We were the two guys honored with calling the 30-20-20 Oh, my God. That Yoke has had last year.

Yeah.

30, 20, 20. And it was one of those nights, and you get this sometimes in the league, where the social media reaction from other star players over that performance. It was incomprehensible that someone could do that, to have that statistical impact in any given game. You can't believe you actually saw it. And we were the two guys that were able to call that game. So, yeah, for me, I don't know that he's better than I think he is. It doesn't sound like he's better than you think he is, but I still think you're probably right. There's probably a large portion of people that don't genuinely understand what this guy is doing on a nightly basis, which is still shocking to think he could have the year he had last year and not win the MVP. Shay deserved it, too. I had no problem.

Shay's probably going to win it this year. If they go 75 and seven, Shay's going to win.

I've been saying for the last two weeks, listen, the guy's numbers are better. They potentially could break the record for wins in a season. They didn't substantially improve their team from a personnel standpoint. So they're running it back. He's every bit as good. How can you guarantee you get another MVP? No matter what Jokuj does is, well, let's do something historically great. Let's be an all-time great team. And they're on their way to do that. So to me, I think it's going to be very difficult for Jokuj, particularly if there's another 10, 12, 15 game gap between OKC and everybody else in the West. It's going to be very difficult for Jokuj to be able to get one. You're going to talk about two of the great 8-ish years in the history of this league, if this happens, to not win an MVP.

Back to back. My guy Larry Bird, his best year ever was 87, didn't win the MVP. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it's the narrative, sometimes it's how your team's doing. All right, your next guy, who is it?

The next guy I would go to off this list, I'm going to go with A. J. Mitchell. I'm going with A. J. Mitchell because right now he's been like, Okay, wow, A. J. Mitchell. People are noticing this guard on the Oklahoma City Thunder that got a chance to play because Jalen Williams was out. I'm watching a guy that at some point, and I don't know when it's going to happen, because if he stays in Oklahoma City a long time, it's not going to happen there. Because of those two guards and how young those two players are, SGA and Jalen Williams. Maybe it's somewhere else a few years down the road. I think this guy legitimately has all-star potential.

So you feel like 2021 Jalen Brunson-ish.

Yeah, I do. Now look, will he top out at 27, 28 points a game and be in the MVP discussion? I don't know, but I'm not going to rule it out because Jalen Brunson so blew out the ceiling on what I thought he was as a player. I probably missed his ceiling more than any player I've ever covered, Jalen Brunson. I thought Jalen Brunson was going to be a 15-point-a-game guy on a mediocre team or a really good backup guard on a contender, but not an MVP guy that can get on any night 30, 40 points. Just whenever he feels like it, I never thought he was this. So I'm not going to say A. J. Mitchell It can't become that. But yes, it's got that feel to it. Backing up two great players. In Brunson's case, it was Jokić. It was, I'm sorry, Luka. In this case, it's SGA. Jalen Williams as the off guard. I think this guy, potentially, when he gets his own team, puts the ball on his hip and is running the show, I think A. J. Mitchell is potentially going to become a star. When that happens, I don't know.

And what would have to change substantially for him? Probably a lot to get those numbers that I'm talking about, but I think he's capable of it.

I 100% agree. I hate when we just agree all podcast, but I 100% agree with that one. My next guy. I got to go home or pick. I can't believe how good Jalen Brown has been offensively this year. I had already decided on him as a player, and I was a Jalen defender. I thought I knew who he was. I thought he He maxed out whatever his ceiling was probably two years ago during the playoff run. There were some flaws that were just going to be there that we lived with, and that's just who he was going to be. We knew he was probably going to score a little more this year without Tatum. But I thought it was going to be more high volume threes. I thought his field goal percentage was going to go down. First of all, I think it's him or Jalen Johnson for best forward in the league right now. I just think if you're talking about pure forwards, I don't count Yannis as a center. I'm not counting him as a forward. The one-on-one stuff this year has been so sophisticated. He did it again against Indiana last night.

I know Indiana stinks, but Indiana was trying. He was going against Siakam. He was going against a team that's well-coached and knows how to help out. He has this whole bag of moves now. He's got that... One of the last times you were here, we talked about he's got this move where it seems like he's going to drive with his right-hand in the basket and he stops and does this He's a little crossover, 12-footer. He's got this almost like Brunson-esque, pound you down, plays off you, and then has this extra footwork now where he'll take this extra step and do these spin layups. I love how he's playing. I think he's been more unselfish than ever. He's averaging 29 a game, 29, 6, and 5, shooting 50%, and his free throws are up legs. 7. 6 free throws. He was never a big free throw guy. He was always like a settle for threes, don't go to the basket guy, and I just think he's been awesome. I can't believe it. This is not a small sample size. This is now one-third of the season.

I love this one because I think, here's what I'm saying from him. First of all, it's very rare that a player in his 10th year can find another level offensively than what you thought you knew. I think what you're seeing is there's no deference at all on the court. When he's playing with Jason Tatum, there is a level of deference that takes place that can affect his nights. And if Tatum gets cooking on a certain night, particularly if it's early in the game, that can affect Jalen Brown's night to a certain extent. And just to The fact that he's there, and you got one eye knowing where Jason Tatum is because of his level and his profile and the shadow he cast in the league, we'll take Jason Tatum off the court right now for Jalen Brown, and everyone defers to him. He doesn't get that feeling that often because he hasn't had to do it. For me to be able to take it to this level with the opportunity that's presented really has impressed me. Second-highest field goal percentage in a season of his career, 50 % more free throw attempts per game than his highest single season.

So take whatever season you want in his career, the highest free throw attempts per game, he's shooting basically two and a half more free throws a game than that. I think it's his career high in assists. So his playmaking has been there as well. And it shows you, man, you know what? This guy had a lot more in his bag than you really thought because he didn't have to demonstrate it every night because he had Jason Tate him as the ultimate crutch to lean on during stretches of games and stretches of seasons. And that's not the case. It's his show, and he's showing you what he's capable of doing. So I totally agree with you. And I think he entirely Maxi. I've got to get a lot of talk right now for what they've done with those two teams to keep them positioned where they are with all the uncertainty and injuries that those teams have dealt with, delivering every single night as the targeted guy for defenses, and they're still find out a way to get to 30 pretty much every night.

I think both of them should be in conversation for first two more NBA. And it's probably like a nine-guy list, but I think both of them should be in there. The thing with Jalen, he had time to prepare for this because Tatum got hurt in the beginning of May. And you know, all right, I'm going to be the guy next year. How do I get better? And I think he took so much shit over the last couple of years for, can't dribble with his left, loses the ball too much, settles for threes, doesn't hit big free throws at the end of the games. Oh, now that Tatum's gone, watch how bad Jalen is going to be. And I think all that stuff really helped him. He came in, he fixed every flaw that he had. He can go with his left a little bit. He does have this crossover now. Teams poke at him to try to steal the ball, and they don't get it anymore. The last thing I'd mention, he has gone toe to toe with the best guys in the league and match their offense, which I think is the last... This is what Kate started to do last year.

If you're going to just swim in the pools against the better teams and the best teams, you still at some point need a guy. You're like, Oh, shit. It's 1: 04, 1: 04, 4 minutes left. Where are we going? This is now a yin-yen game. Who's my guy? You saw it with Edwards on OKC on Friday. Edwards thought he was the alpha on the court. He's insane, but he really believed it, and he beat OKC, and he made the biggest shot. Jalen thinks he belongs on the court with all these dudes. He's like, Who am I playing tonight? Oh, we got Max tonight. Oh, it's Luca tonight. He thinks he's on the level with all those guys, and this year, he's played like he is. So that attitude, I think, is one of the reasons they've been really good. Who's your next guy?

Next guy I'll go with is Reid Sheppard. And here's the thing. I really liked him coming out. I was a believer. I saw him initially in Summer League, and I was super impressed. I called his first Vegas Summer League game last year. The first time we saw him in a Rockets uniform. I was so impressed in that game because I had not seen him in person. What you pick up on in person is this guy's athletic ability. He has tremendous elevation on his mid-range because he doesn't look very big. He's actually listed bigger than he looks when you see him on the course.

Have you stood next to him?

I have, yeah.

So are we talking like 5'11? No, he's bigger than that. 6 feet?

But he's bigger than that. But When you look at him moving out on the court against some of the longer arm guards and stuff that he's playing against, he looks like one of those smaller guys. He almost looks Mark Price-ish to me. And I was watching him and I'm going, Well, how does he get stuff off in the middle of the floor? This was a point, by the way, he wasn't really making threes. In summer league, he wasn't making threes last year at a high rate. So it was like, how was he even scoring? Well, he's scoring because the mid-range was he was more comfortable with before the three-point shooting at the NBA level because he gets off the ground. I have frozen it on touch screens to take a look at deep defenders that were right there, and they both jump at the same time. And he's given up three inches to a guy with with a long reach, and he just goes up where his foot is basically at knee level from the guy that's jumping to contest because his bounce is so good, he can get that shot off. And that is what triggered what we're seeing now.

He was going to that more often early in the year because he still wasn't making threes. And that kept his confidence up until the deep shot started to fall. And once that started to fall, this guy now has become one of the most important players on their team. You knew Van Vliet was out. The opportunity was going to be there. It didn't look like he was going to jump on it early in the year. He's jumped all over it now. I don't know where Houston would be without what Reid Shippard is giving them from a shooting standpoint, in front of just a bench production standpoint. Point now.

Yeah, when Van Biet got hurt, the best, best case scenario for Houston was that Reid Sheppard could play some minutes and be serviceable or better. I think he's been above that. I really like him. I agree with you. The Mark Price thing stands out when you watch them, not just because they're both white guys, but just he has this '80s, '90s style that I think has gone away because we've moved more toward these Donovan Mitchell type zero guards, guys who have the ball a lot, but they're not these pure point guards that we grew up with. I just think he's one of... I like watching him on fast breaks. He's one of those guys. He knows what to do and where to go and who to make the extra pass to and when to give the ball up.

I want to make one more quick point on him because I lived this in some way, in some regards. It's amazing how when he was struggling to make shots early, like his rookie year and even the very beginning this year, but most of all of last season, all of a sudden, because you're not making shots, some of the stuff defensively gets overly scrutinized because the ball's not going in on the other end. Now, he's making shots, and now he's getting a lot of credit for lateral quickness. He's really scrappy with his hands. He's always been that. He's really good at raking on guys. He's just got very quick and very good anticipation defensively. So it's funny how the ball starts going on the other end. All of a sudden, the narrative completely changes. Even though you're exactly the same player in terms of your defensive competitiveness, now all of a sudden, it's becoming something they talk about as a strength of yours when before it was this obvious weakness because the ball wasn't going in. So give him credit because that's not an easy thing to change the narrative on. And he has done that because he's been so good offensively for them.

He's also, and I say this as a compliment, he's a little bit of a dick.

Oh, no, he's got a swagger, man.

He's feisty and there's a little... I always thought I always write about John Stockton, like what an asshole he was. And he would just set these cheap pics and he would trip people. And he was just scrappy because he had to be. He was one of the smallest guys out there.

Yeah, he got a shot blocked the other night by Bruce Brown on a pull-up jumper. And Brown blocked on a baseline and knocked it into the crowd and started Wolfing at him. And at this point, Reid Shepper was already... They came off the bench. I think he hit his first three threes. So he's already rolling. And Bruce Brown blocks his shot and has all this stuff to say to him. And you could see him smirking and going back at him. And I was sitting there. I was like, I wish I had a thought bubble right now, what's coming out of his mouth right now? Because to get challenged like that, when you're starting to play well, you You're feeling yourself a little bit. You're not going to take that. He went right back at him. He ended up having in that game, he had 28 points.

He was awesome.

He was incredible.

Pritchard had, not to compare him to another white guy, but it's the same thing. You're the undersized white guard. People are going to make runs at you. They're going to talk shit to you. And especially if you're not hitting shots, all the warts just seem bigger. Pritchard developed the same thing. He talks as much shit as anybody, and he's super confident, and he's an irrational You're a confidence guy, and you have to be.

I actually thought that's who you were going to say when you led it with... We were talking about guys that are better than you think, and you said this is like a home or take. I thought you were going to say him.

You thought it was going to be Pritchard. I did.

I thought you were going to say him because it seemed like it would lend itself to this conversation. Can I tell you something about him? The first time I saw him in person, I called a game last year in Phoenix, and I was like, this dude's sneakers make a different noise than everybody else's sneakers on the court. The speed with which his feet move and that's squey sound, you broke it down with some headphones and listened to it. You're like, that doesn't sound like anybody else's feet because his feet are moving so quick. He's way quicker than I thought he was when I saw him in person. And I love that whole story with him and what he's turned himself into. And again, you look at where Boston is without Tatum, and Jalen Brown deserves certainly most of the credit. Missoula should get a lot, too. Then it would be Payton Pritchard, man, right there as the next guy stepping in now as a starter and playing as well as he has.

I have two picks here. I'll go with... Since we're on a white guy run. I don't understand this Colin Gillespie thing. Oh, man. I just don't understand it. I looked at his basketball reference. He was on Denver two years ago. Did you even know?

Yeah.

I got- Wait, did you- He played 23 games for them.

Did you and I not Can we talk about this earlier when I was on with you about my background with Colin Gillespie?

I don't remember your background with Colin Gillespie. I don't think we've talked about it.

I coached AAU for seven years, and my team was based in South Jersey, and my son was on that team, and it started out, they were 10 years old with mostly local kids, and the better local kids that came through my camp. That's where I handpicked these kids. So you start playing local tournaments in the Philly area. And he was with a program called the Northeast Sting in northeast Philadelphia. And his story in high school is incredible. No scholarship offers going into his senior year. Outplay as a kid going to Kentucky in the Catholic League playoff. He was 43 points against a kid, Croate Green, who's going to Kentucky. And his dream was to get one scholarship offer from Delaware. The way the narrative was, he ends up, Jay Wright sees the game, offers him. He goes on to become Biggie's player of the year twice, and now he's in the league. But here's the thing, we played that team 10 times, and it was started as the Northeast thing. Then we I started playing them on the Under Armor circuit. It was higher-level stuff. I kept seeing this white guard that I just loved his game.

They were never able to beat us. I think we were probably 10-0 against his AAU team over the course of his youth career. The guy goes on to do what he's doing now. So, yeah, I knew where he was. I was following his career from day one. In fact, the first time I saw him in a game last year, he came running across the court. I came in to shake my hand because he remembered those battles when I was coaching against him. I told him how happy was for his success, and I always admired his game. Do you know that this year, Colin Gillespie has scored 90 more points this season, a third of the way in, than he has in his NBA career to this point, total?

I would have believed even a higher number I don't understand why he didn't play last year on a team that desperately needed a point card and somebody would give a shit. And he was basically buried on that team.

He was tough as nails, man. That kid has so much confidence and belief in himself. And it's the typical Villanova. Brunson had it. They belong in the bright lights. They like that moment because he's been on the floor for Phoenix a lot in the fourth quarter. Oh, yeah. And he's made plays defensively, too, because he's got great instincts defensively. So he's come up with timely steals or a deflection or whatever. Maybe he's never in the wrong place. If it's his turn to trap or rotate. But then on the other end, he's made big shots.

Yeah, they trust him.

It's an incredible story.

They trust him running offense, too. Yeah, he's over 40% on threes. He's just jumped out over and over again trying to figure out what was going on with this weird Suns team that just played well and really gives a shit.

Yeah, I saw him for the first time. He was 13 years old, and now here he is, an impact player for one of the surprise teams in the league.

Unbelievable. Well, I do think he fits into a theme that started last season and has carried over to this season. Effort. As weird as that sounds, these These teams and players that just really seem to care, game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half. And now that we've moved to this league where there's more full-court pressure, people picking stuff up at half-court, you need these agitator perimeter guys. The Celtics have a slew of them. But Phoenix, I look at the team they have, it didn't make sense before the year. I went under on their wins 31 and a half. They just have a bunch of card-nosed dudes that actually care and want to mix it up and roll their sleeves up and really fight And I think that hurts these teams, like these Cleveland teams that are just in a fog waiting for the playoffs to start. And they don't want to get in fights with these teams. They don't want to battle. They don't want to roll up their sleeves. And then all of a sudden, they're down 12, they're down 15. But To me, he typifies that. And I think there's other guys like that.

I think Knipple has been like that. Jordan Walsh on the Celtics when he was playing was another one who's just like, he just really gives a shit. Hugo, I always call him Hugo. Hugo on the Celtics now, he's just a maniac. And I just feel like we've had more and more maniacs in the league. I don't know. I can't think of a reason either.

No, I think you're hitting on something. I think now teams are now identifying the value added to what you're doing.

Like energy.

With energy, with guys that are willing to push themselves to the limit in terms of fatigue and stamina and continue to... What you're talking about, the ball pressure off the floor, that's definitely been something that's increased in the league last couple of years. The other thing that you see on a nightly basis on the teams, right, and you notice it, when you can force the initial pass to the wing, like that first entry pass to start your offense, when that can be denied and pushed out to 38 feet on the catch, 30 feet on the catch, it's amazing what that ends up doing to your possession and the timing of the next action that teams are trying to run. So now coaches are rewarding guys that want to do that. They're not just going to be back there lazily, let the guy pop out, catch it right at the three-point line, where now all of the timing and the cuts are the way the coach drew it up. When you force that first catch out on the floor, everything is off from that point. Denying ball reversals to the top of the key, that's a big one.

If you can force the ball reversal out to 30 plus feet, it's amazing how much more difficult it is to score with what the next action was supposed to be on the weak side of the floor. Fighting guys in the post for position, not just conceding it, let them catch it and like, Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm getting a double team and then waving for help. Now, how about you fight that guy first? Do not let him catch it where he wants it. Front him. Do everything you can to not let the ball come in easily. It wears on the guy. It also creates timing issues. It wears the clock down. For teams offensively. All that stuff, it seems like now is being rewarded with guys that otherwise might not have been able to crack the rotation.

Yeah, I wonder if it would change the concept of team building. Like, okay, see, everything you just laid out, this is one of the things OKC is the best at, not to mention all the talent they have, all the great shots they get, but they just make it so hard for other teams offensively. And then I look like Detroit is another one where it's just hard to play them. They're pain in the ass. I look at a team like the Clippers, and I have my LA friends like, oh, my God, what's wrong with the Clippers? They're going to turn it down. You can feel it when you go to the games. They don't have enough of these crazy energy guys. Their energy is super low. They have all these guys who have accomplished a bunch stuff. It's an older team. You just feel the energy sag, and they go against the wrong team. It's almost you're watching going, the other team is trying harder. Maybe they aren't, but it feels that way. They just don't want to mix it up like that. They don't want to roll their sleeves up. I can't remember who was up, but I wanted to mention Kaleil Ware on Miami, who's turned into a 12, 11 guy, and I wanted your take on this.

I just like him. I mean, he's playing 24 minutes a game, 25 minutes a game, put up double doubles. If you redrafted 24 and Castle was first, I think Castle has to be first. I don't even think it's an argument, right?

Yes.

Then I gave you Sahr, Ware, or Sheppard as the next three in some order, what would your order be? Man. Castle first, Saur, Ware, Shepher. You have the second pick based on what you've seen for the last year and a third.

Man, That is tough because I do think Alex Sarr has offensive capabilities that Kalele Ware is never going to have. It's really intriguing because he's so long. Actually, there's nights when he's really impactful. Eventually, now, look, he's on a team that No one's paying attention to. It's not winning. It's a different environment. I'd love to see him on a competitive team, and maybe he'll get that at some point in his career sooner than later. The overall package there is more significant than where. Now, where on a A certain team, if you want to plug a guy in with what he does well, he can be a massive difference maker, as I think he is in Miami. But in terms of the two players, Saur, probably for me, has a little bit more upside than what he can be. He's shown me a lot this year. I thought the first half of last season, I was like, Oh, man, they might have missed this pick altogether. And man, did he have a great second half of the year. And then he committed to go to Summer League, which I was shocked by. Guys, typically, he was all rookie team.

You're thinking he's not going to want to go to Vegas. They said he volunteered to do it. He wanted to go out there and play with those guys. It's told me something about him and who he is and how bad he probably wants to be better. I probably would lean there. And look, Reece Sheppard is a really nice player. One day, maybe he's going to be starting point guard on the team and doing things, but I'm not quite 100% sure yet. Is it this perfect situation he's in now to do what he does or what is ultimately his real ceiling on a team that's really good? I'm not exactly sure. Alex Sahr is intriguing in me because of the length and the skillset.

I had the same order. I think Sahr is the highest ceiling still. There's stuff, and I saw him in person in November, but there's stuff with him where it's like, That's unusual. There's not a lot of guys that do that. Sheppard, I would probably have over where because I like the ceiling with Sheppard. Where he is right now at age 20, I'm just trying to imagine him at age 27 when he's got full confidence. I think he's a possible All-Star. I'm not sure where's an All-Star, but he's perfect for this. Can you put up double doubles? Can you play with your hands up? Can you protect the rim? All that stuff. All right, you got one more guy. Who do you have?

Let's go with Denny Abdi. This dude, when he got drafted, people didn't know much about him. Lottery pick, goes to Washington. Kind of watch him early on. You're like, he's got a nice all-around game, but didn't do anything great. To do what he's doing now and to put up these stat lines. Look, Portland's a pretty competitive team. The Western conference, they'd have a lot more wins if they were in the East. No question. They're playing Eastern conference teams all the time. Look at the Western conference of what you're dealing with. Their win totals aren't as good as they would be if they were in the East, but they're still like, you got to come to play when you're playing against the Blazers.

And this guy now-It's another roll up the sleeves team, right?

No doubt.

And he's probably the starting five on that team.

Completely is. And for people that Probably you haven't that are listening to this, that love the league, but maybe you're not really watching the Blazers, which I would understand. You're not really paying attention to the Blazers. They've played themselves in the 10th place, which might not sound like much, but that's play in territory. Didn't look at their roster before the year and think that was going to happen. This dude is averaging just under 26, seven boards, six and a half assists, 47 % from the field, 37 from the 380 from the line. And he's like a triple double threat a lot of nights with not the generic kind, not 12, 11, and 10. This is a guy that's going to get those 28 point triple doubles. His all-around game has really blown away my expectations for him based on what I saw in Washington. It was just an obvious case of, give this guy more freedom. The talent is there. Let him go play through some mistakes, and you've got something really nice. It's crazy when this happens, though, Bill, because it's almost like you're going, well, the talent evaluators in Washington were right. Actually, they were right, but they didn't even give it enough time to know that.

And then he's in Portland. Because the guy is taking it to another level. But so it was there all along.

It seems even worse than that, though. It seems worse because it seems like they traded him partly because they wanted a fully tank, and he was a little too good to be part of the mission. And Portland smartly identified it and grabbed him. But I think the Wizards fans, Joe Haas, who comes on this part all the time, huge Wizards fan. He was that. Abdi was really good. I don't think he thought he was going to do 26, five and six. He's not only an All-Star, I think he has to be in the All-Star team, but he's at least in the fringe all-MBA conversation. I can't believe how good it is. If you're 26, 7, and 7 for a third of the season, I know the numbers are a little inflated these days, but that's real. Well, that leads me to Michael Porter Jr, who I just wanted to mention. It's only 23 games. He's on a bad team. He's averaging almost 26 a night, and he's in the 50, 40, 90 vicinity, and he's averaging almost 4,3s a game. And look, I don't know. We knew there was more there. We knew in Denver, he was being used the way he was going to We thought he was overpaid.

I still probably think he is despite the stats. He's had some toe to toe with the best player on the floor for the other team games where he seems to be pretty confident he belongs in that. What I talked about with Jalen Brown earlier, he killed the Celtics a couple of weeks ago. Killed them. Singlehandedly, it's probably their second worst loss of the year. And he's had a couple of those where he's just like, Yeah, I'm Michael Porter Jr. I'm putting up 30. He's an intriguing I don't know if he's a trade asset, if he's a building block, or what is he, but I think he's probably added four wins to their total that they didn't think they were going to have. They wanted to be terrible, and they're not terrible. They're not good, but he's fucked it up for them.

He's done way more than I thought he was going to. Me, too. I wasn't a negative Michael Porter guy at all. I just thought there was a casualness about him that probably hurt him. And with what they did in Denver, the way that they played on But certain nights, if it wasn't flowing toward him, he would get a little bit aloof.

A checkout.

A checkout a little bit. I think Michael Malone, at times, I think was probably in his own head. If he didn't say it publicly, he was questioning his toughness a little bit some nights. So the irony is when they made the trade, I said, Well, this is an upgrade. Cam Johnson is an upgrade for them because I trusted his energy more. I He trusted his ability to play within a role and be good at that every night rather than the fluctuations when some nights Michael Porter would get it going early in Denver, and he was a totally different player than the nights when he was an afterthought for them offensively. Now you're looking at his defense. Now you're looking at his energy because he wasn't getting shots. I thought, Cam Johnson is going to have nights where he doesn't get a shot for a quarter, and he's still going to play hard as he can. I thought it was an upgrade.

I I'm still not sure. And they shaved a lot of money, too. They shaved 20 million, I think, or something close to that. So it was a no-brainer.

No doubt. And look, Denver's having a hell of a year. And maybe ultimately, he is a better fit for them for some of the reasons I stated, particularly If Jamal Murray is going to have the year he's having, maybe you need a guy that's going to be less consistent with his shot volume, but still play hard and have a... He's got a really positive energy and vibe about him, Cam Johnson, no matter what's going on. Michael Porter Jr, he just has a different vibe about him. So maybe it still is for the best that they made the move, but give Michael Porter Jr all the credit in a row. I have a question for you because I've been thinking about this. Is there any part of Michael Porter Jr do you think that's having just this year for now, just a little bit more fun? There's no question. Even though they're 819 and they're not playing for anything, and he's not going to contend. Denver, who knows, Denver could end up in the conference finals or the finals, and you could be part of that. He's already won a ring. But do you think maybe because he's won a ring, he's like, Hey, I tasted that.

But this is fun. I'm the guy now, the ball's ending up. Everybody's looking for me. I'm a magnet for the ball. Some part of him is probably really enjoying the hell out of this at 27 years old, just to get numbers.

Go get numbers. Well, he was also... He was one of the biggest high school recruits of a stretch there. He was supposed to be- Number one in his for two years in a row. Yeah. I think there's a sense of like, never happened for that guy. And now he's shown like, Well, never happened to me. But I was also on a team where I never had a ball. You could make a case for it. He won the title is the key thing for me. If he had to win a title, I'd be like, I don't know. It's fun to be on a winning team. But he won the title. Now he's proving, A, that he could, again, small sample size, but he's at least shown it. B, I think he's a really intriguing trade asset. I wonder if the Warriors have had a meeting about him. Be like, Hey, could we turn Kominga and some other stuff and a pick into Porter? What does that do for us?

What? I really believe in just conversations that I'm having. I think the guy has completely changed his draft, I'm sorry, trade status in terms of attractability to teams, attractiveness. This guy now is like... Because I think people thought, Okay, I knew what Michael Porter was. The fact that he can do this offensively, even though it's a team that's not winning a lot of games, I do think now there's probably more teams that would look at him that are those middle-of-the-road playoff teams and go, Man, that would be nice to add that scoring punch. The question always gets back to what are you willing to give up for him?

I was thinking Milwaukee with him because I know Doc likes him. When Doc was coming on my podcast, he always thought Porter was underrated for Denver. He liked that he rebounded. All right. So I apologize to not mentioning Tyrese Maxi. Sorry. You asked, how do we decide most improved player? I just wanted to cover this quick. Because I don't think Abdi is eligible for me, even though he's one of the favorites. Here's why. He did this for the last two months of last season. We already saw this. And it was the same reason I didn't vote for Cade last year was a different reason, which is like, well, Cade was the first pick in the draft. He's supposed to get better every year, which is, I think, the case for Maxi not being in there. I don't really know how we decide this, and it seems like it's up to the voter, and we both have votes. But I feel like Porter could potentially be in this most improved player thing. It's like, well, look at it. He's really improved. It's like, Is he? He just got more shots, more higher usage rate. He's on a team that needs him.

If you went from not playing to playing like Gillespie, I'm I'm not sure that counts either. So what is the criteria? What's the number one thing for you?

So for me, guys fall in the different categories with this, and it all depends on what you prioritize the most. I hear what your point about Avdi. Maybe you say the same thing as then about Jalen Johnson. Because he showed you some of this last year, and you're like, okay, here's what it really comes down to, Bill. Because for some of these guys, it's not really that they're improved that much in terms of their game. It's really the word It should be for some of these guys, Most improved opportunity because that's what's changed for Michael Porter Jr. That's what's changed for A. J. Mitchell, who is a guy that's probably going to get a lot of votes for this award because he was not really on your radar with the Thunder last year, and now he's a major component and will be all year. This guy is going to play 20 plus minutes all postseason for this team.

Can you improve from not playing at all to playing? I'm going to say no.

What do you mean by that? You're saying you don't think a guy that was just hanging on to an NBA career to now be in a guy like Gillespie, for instance, why would he be disqualified?

I'm not saying disqualified. I'm just saying when I think about this in my head, it should almost be a separate award that they should call the Where the fuck did you come from? Award. And it's like, Oh, this year it's Colin Gillespie. Where did you come from? What happened?

That's where they should. Maybe they should name it.

That should just be a different award. I When I think of this award, I look at Jalen Duren, who right now in FanDuel has the fourth best odds, plus 700. I look at him like he had the exact same minutes last year. They needed the exact same things from him last year, but I'm watching him this year and he's a different guy. He's just went up a level. He is now... Whatever center he's going against, I feel like he's toe to toe. They can run offense with him at the end of games with him and Cade, and it's devastating. His personality has evolved where he's this real leader and intimidating presence. I don't think he was that way last year in the same way. To me, that's the guy I'm looking at for a candidate. But you could also say, Jalen Johnson is now one of the 15 best players in the league. He should win.

Yeah, no, I agree. So that's for me is first thing I'm going to ask myself is, have they gone to a completely different shelf in the hierarchy in the league. So that's the first thing. They have to... And some people might, for some of these guys, say, well, yeah, but if you really then go deep dive into what they were doing last year, you're going to realize, no, they really aren't. They've already shown you this. Now they're doing it consistently more often, maybe. And so that would maybe be what people are looking for. I wrote down 10 guys without really, really, really diving in. Just off the top of my head, going down the lead. And I'm going to blow through them real quick because we've covered a lot of them today, but there's a few others we haven't yet. I have Jelen Johnson written down as a guy that's probably going to get consideration for this. Aj Mitchell, Reid Sheppard, should. Because Reid Sheppard got an opportunity last year as the third pick in the draft. You're going to give that guy an opportunity. He didn't look quite ready for it.

I think he- But that goes into if you're a second-year guy, you should be better than you were as a first year. That's why I got confused with this award. It's like, I would expect you to be better this year. You've been in for a year, too.

That's a very good point. And that's why a lot of people will exclude guys from this. I look at him and go, he's so much better than he was, though, because last year, he didn't look sure of himself. And the opportunity was there for him to grab the backup point guard minutes for that team. They wanted him to get it. He wasn't ready. And you know what I will say? When I met with Eimear Udoka, like halfway through the season, I called a Rockets game. At that point, Reid Shepper was pretty much out of the rotation. He had so many glowingly positive things to say about him. I knew he was going to be okay. You can tell when a coach, you ask them about a young player, and it's like, you could just tell by their response, even if they don't say it, you could just tell that they don't believe this guy is going to... He did not give me that indication. So that made me think, this guy is going to be fine. There's something they're seeing that is not translated to the games yet. Now, he's done it six times last year, double figures all He's done it 18 times.

So there you go. But you make a good point.

All right. So who else to drive in the list? Here we go.

Colin Gillespie, I think, has to be in there. Avdi, I mentioned. Jalen Duren, I have on this list. You mentioned we We talked about Alex Sahr. I think he could be a guy. These next few, I think, are really interesting ones. Nakeel Alexander Walker. Look at what he has done with an increased opportunity to score the ball in Atlanta that he didn't get in Minnesota. Minnesota It was guard the ball, one of the best on ball defenders, pressure up the floor, loved you for that. On those nights, you made shots great. But we don't really need you to do that. It's not a big deal. You're not judged by that. Now, he goes to Atlanta, and all of a sudden, it's a different type of offense. Trey Young is not out there. And this dude's getting 20 regularly. Him and Jalen Johnson are getting 50 points combined a lot of nights. I put him down. Ryan Rollins from Milwaukee was a guy I thought probably deserves some of this because he looks really natural as a lead guard for them with an increased opportunity. And then Keante George was the last one I wrote down in Utah.

Now, here's the thing about him. His efficiency isn't much different. He's just taking higher volume, but the guy had like 4, 30-point games in a five-game stretch.

You catch him on the right night, and it looks like he's going to be a five-time All-Star.

Man, a dude got talent. He ooos his talent. I think he drives them crazy a little bit with some of his decision-making, but the guy's got massive talent, and they're better than they were. At least they're trying to win games now a little bit more often. So I've noticed him a little bit more than I did a year ago. So that was my 10-guys list. That's a good list.

Can I add one more? Sure. Kevin Love hasn't done anything for the last four years. Sixteen rebounds the other night. Let's throw him back on. There you go. Is there any other late 30s guy want a new word? This Christmas Day fan duel is letting you once again pass the leg to your families and friends with a fun new way to bet. If you open Pass the Leg in the FanDuel Sportsbook app, you can begin by creating a unique link for all the NFL games on Christmas Day. What an early Christmas present this is. Add your legs, invite and share with your friends. Once your friends are finished adding their legs, add the group parlay to your Bet slip, and you're ready to go. Use your Pass the Leg PBT to boost your winnings and just get after it. Here's what I would do for the Christmas games. Cowboys, Commanders, Chris Rodriguez, plus 120 anytime, TD score. It's been coming on late. I just think this game is going to have a lot of points. I like that one. Lions at Vikings, Jamir Gibbs, Anytime, minus 195 for a TD. He didn't have a good week last week.

I could just see him unleashing Holy Hell this week and all the teams that got eliminated last week in fantasy because he was on their team. Get mad all over again. Yeah. Then last but not least, Broncos at Chiefs. Let's go nuts with this. Broncos defense against whoever the heck is cute being for the Chiefs. Bronco's defense to score a countdown plus 5: 50 at any point in the game. I love it. Throw that in with some easy bets and you're ready to go. Head to FanDuel. Start passing the leg right now. I had two more Quick things for you. I told you I had a Celtics thing I wanted to throw at you. I say this very hesitantly and carefully. They remind me a lot of the Pacers last year. If you actually look at the blueprint and what they're doing, because I watch every Celtics game, really trying to figure out. First of all, I've loved this season. It's just amazing to watch a team lose their best guy. Jacobi and Chris Vernon were talking a couple of weeks ago on the mismatch pod about the Scottie Pippen season without MJ, when the infrastructure stayed the same and Scottie rose up much like Jalen's doing this year, and they just somehow won 55 games Jordan.

It was incredible. So here's the Pacers' comparison. They're built around guards. The guards are creating most of the offense, most of the opportunities, the shooting, they control the pace. They always have two out there. Simons can come in and he can still create a shot. So they're always in a position with their guards where they can create something, which is where the Pacers were last year. They have an awesome forward. The Pacers had Siakam last year. I think Jalen is an even better offensive option than Siakam was. But they have one forward that they know can get a shot and can, if you space out for them, can probably get a good 12 to 15 footer. They have some rim protection in Kata, which the Pacers had Turner. And then they just have all these wings that just try and play defense and know how to switch, and they come in waves, and the whole team tries really hard. The bench can come in, and they really remind me of that Pacers team. I know the one thing that's different is Kata can't shoot threes like Turner did. They don't have an incredible playmaker like Halliburton, but Brown's better than Siaka, but I think it's the same blueprint.

They're really well-coached, good infrastructure, and the 1811 makes sense to me watching it. So that's my case.

I like that a lot. I get the same vibe watching them offensively that I did get from the Pacers a year ago. It's pretty incredible what they've been able to... You think about it, the last two teams that represent the East in the finals, both lost their best player. Look at the difference in results. Indiana had some other injuries, but they still had Siakam just about every night. Matherin has been out there. Nemhar has been out there. T. J. Mcdonald, these guys, and then Miles Turner is not there, obviously. But look at their season and look at what the Celtics have been able to do. I have a question for you as a follow-up. As a guy that's unapologetic, love your team, do you have even an improved respect factor for Joe Mizzula than you had prior to this year?

He won me over last year. But what I love about this year's team is it's like coming out of his brain and his pores. You basically, if you don't try, you're not playing. He sat Garza for a couple of weeks, and Garza had a weird little stretch where he wasn't good. But Garza creeped back in. And he creeped back in because he's playing like his life depends on the game. And if the Celtics lose, he's going to be murdered after the game. He had a play. He got an offensive rebound. He dove over two guys and tipped it back. He was a strong safety trying to break up a Hale Mary or something. So you have him, and then you have Hugo, which is like I honestly, I think Mazula created him in a lab. I think he went to Spain and just created his version of Frankenstein. Hugo is a maniac, and I think he's plus 78 the last three games, and you feel it when you watch it. He's flying around. He just had 17 coffees. Other teams hate playing against him. They hate him. Is he taking on this cult status now with the Boston crowd?

It's beyond. Yeah, Jordan Walsh had it for a little bit, and then Hugo just grabbed it. But the combo them together, they always have one guy in the game who's a wing, who can guard anyone on the other team, and who tries at an A plus level. It's been really fun to watch. So now you start thinking about this Tatum come back, Let's say he plays 25 minutes a game. Those minutes are coming from like, Shierman and some Hauser that you're just going to upgrade to Jason Tatum, that even if he's on a little bit of cruise control, still the three-point shooting, the rebound in the defense, they're going to be better with Tatum. And I think this last week was the first time, I think, Celtic fans started to look at each other and go, we're in the three-seed.

No, they're in the mix.

Tatum could be coming back in March. What's going on here?

They're in the mix. And this was what the storyline going in we all knew was the path was created. It's the potentials there for a number of teams. Boston didn't seem like they were one of them, but I think they're looking at the top and going to Pistons and the Knicks. Like, yeah, we're okay playing those teams.

We're going to be okay.

If we get a seven-game series with them, they've been one of the really surprising stories, especially the way the year started for them. It's for them to have flipped it around the way they have, man. It's just so impressive. And by the way, Christmas Day games are coming up. We talked about at the very beginning, I got the Houston Lakers game in that eight o'clock game. There's five games that day. I wish you could flex them. I'd keep my match up that I'm calling, that I'm part of that crew. Calling that game, I'd keep that one.

I want that game as the 8: 00 game. You flex Cleveland out, put the Celtics in?

Let me ask you a question. No, I almost don't. Because here's the thing that's crazy. Only two of the 10 teams are from the Eastern Conference. There's only two Eastern Conference teams represented on Christmas Day, and that is Cleveland and the Knicks. Now, first of all, I'd rather watch Detroit Knicks at noon. That's the one I wanted, especially since... Me, too. They haven't played yet this year. And they had that incredible series last year. That's the game at the Garden, at noon on Christmas, two teams that practically got to fight every game in the playoff this year. You give me that to start my Christmas Day game. I got a weird one for you.

So we're fighting at the tables later, but Detroit and the Knicks start us off, and then we can fight with our family after.

At noon, you're still like, maybe these kids are still open in presence and people are talking a lot. And so you got one eye on the game. And all of a sudden, you're looking up and they're eight minutes in and somebody's being thrown into the crowd and you're like, wait a second. And it changes everything for the Christmas Day games, right? Here's another thing, though. Did you know this? San Antonio is playing Oklahoma City on Christmas night. They just played in the Emirates Cup. San Antonio beat them. Do you know that they're also playing on the December 23rd? They're playing back to back games.

Oh, it's a baseball series? Wow. Yeah, opposite buildings.

It's a home and home. But it does not take a little the edge off the Christmas Day game. They're playing on Tuesday.

Counter. I could watch those teams play 20 times.

I hear you. But for me, I wanted that to be- To have a little more weight. Yeah, especially since San Antonio just beat them and you're like, You know Oklahoma City is going to I want to get this back.

Yeah, but I don't think they knew San Antonio was going to be San Antonio when they schedule that game.

You're 100% right.

What was that over and over? 44? Nobody knew they were going to be a contender. Nobody knew Harper was going to look like this and Castle was going to go up a level.

There's only two other teams that I would put in this category of, Gosh, Boston-Philly would be fun, man, because they're fun to watch. Maxi and Brown are like a show. That would be fun. It's a decent rivalry, those two teams. So you got Dallas and Golden State, Christmas Day.

Yeah, it's a tough one.

I want to see Cooper Flag, and they're playing a little bit better. Golden State's 500 team. Could you ever not want Steph Curry on Christmas Day? You need Steph. You have Steph Curry. So you get Dallas because you don't want an East Coast team versus West Coast team. So that took Philly and Boston out of the mix. Detroit, to me, is the team that got slighted in this. They're number one seating the East, and they're sitting home Christmas Day.

Well, it's tough because Cleveland won 64 last year, so you can't not have them. I know. But yeah, you're right. I watched the Dallas game last night. I really enjoy watching Dallas. Now that Davis is back and looking like Davis again, I think they're fun. Then New Orleans has been... Charlotte was the League Pass MVP of the first quarter, and now New Orleans has grabbed the reins, and it's just the most fascinating League Pass team possible.

By the way, how about Con Kdippel, fastest guy to 100 made threes in This is the best season ever.

Also, I think he's 27. I think they need to investigate this more.

I agree. What are you listening to?

Is anyone lied about their age before in the NBA?

He looks like the game could end. He could throw in a suit and go do someone's taxes. Something's fishy about it. I totally agree with that. Just his body type, everything about him.

The way he moves, he knows how to switch already. He's always in the right spots.

But he's got 100 made threes in however many games they've made.

Yeah, like 24 games.

24 games. It took Steph Curry 58 games to get 100 threes.

Wow. Well, I'm going to end with Steph Curry. Then you could go spend time with your family. Are we at the point where Curry to Charlotte, we should just do it? Can the league intervene? Can this just be... I don't want to upset warrior fans. I don't want to trade Steph Curry before Christmas. But he grew up there. His dad's there. There's shots of him on the court as a kid. He always joked about ending his career there. I don't think this Warriors team has any chance. We just saw Draymond to blow up last night. Can we just do the LaMelo and a bunch of pics and send Curry back to Charlotte and let's just go? Let's do this.

The only people that might object to that are their parents because Seth just got there to go- Seth can be in the trade.

We'll put him in the- The whole family will go.

You have to include Seth if that's going to happen.

That's fine. They're both Currys.

But think about what you're saying now. You're talking about Splash Brothers 2. 0 with Curry and Knippel. That's the new version of that?

Curry and Knippel, Brandon Miller. Bridges is there. We'll try to get them a center.

Lamelo is one of the funnest guys in the league to watch.

Yeah. Well, no, I'm saying LaMelo is in the trade.

The word is- Trade LaMelo. I got out for Curry. I got you.

Lamelo and Picks and other stuff for Curry. It'll never happen. But I was just like, if there Is there ever a time to get the Charlotte bandwagon going for the Curry.

Do you think that Draymon Green's reaction to LaMelo Ball would be a little different than his reaction to Steph Curry? It could be tough.

Well, Draymon is probably out, too. But there is a blow it up scenario with Golden State. If they were like, Hey, maybe we shouldn't pay $400 million a year for this team. But I don't think he's ever leaving. I just wanted to...

This felt like the moment right here. Honestly, I don't want him to. I don't either. I wanted to be one of those ones where you don't have journey going into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Steve Perry's not there. I don't want that. I want them to finish- Are you still upset about that? I am. I hate when it ends that way, man. You accomplish all this greatness together, and then at the end, no one's talking to each other. Like the '90s Bulls teams. It's like, look at what you guys did together, and now you all hate each other.

I think the '90s Bulls is more upsetting than Journey, and I'm upset by Journey. But the '90s Bulls, Pippin doesn't talk to anybody anymore. It sounds... These guys won six titles. They have a 10-part documentary about them. They had the most famous hat that he's had.

At least Journey did go find Arnel Paneda, which is probably the greatest replication of Steve Perry's voice you could possibly imagine. Continually found the guy on YouTube into the Philippines or something. And he ends up being now the lead for Journey for however long. But we digress.

We could talk 80s- I love that you went full name for him.

Any time you want to do a show in 80s rock music, we can go.

It sounds like you're ready. Last thoughts on the Commanders before we go on holidays?

I finally got over my month-long anger, real, real, legitimate anger at what I perceived as a team that quit playing football. I was just so disgusted. All the injuries piled up, but then they just stopped tackling altogether. I was just like, How can they do this to the fan base? You get your season ticket renewal, they jack you up 20% based on this year. You're just like, What? I was so mad. I finally went back. I missed three straight home games that I normally would have gone to to see the Eagles Commanders. Last Sunday, I went to the game. I was back in the stadium. It felt good. I just want the season over as fast as possible.

Were you wearing a Chris Rodriguez's jersey? What was going on?

I know. I was so mad that I I did not wear a jersey. And in fact, I did have a sweatshirt, but I covered it with a coat because it was really cold. It was 38 degrees. So I covered it with a coat. I was not fanned out. I was not celebrating first downs like I normally do. I wasn't doing any of that stuff. I just sat there. And I I have an Eagles fan with me, a buddy of mine, to the game, which I would never consider wanting to do something like that, but I didn't care. I want the season over. I don't want any more wins. I don't know why they beat the Giants a couple of weeks ago. I don't understand what they're doing. Just get the best pick you can at this point.

Yeah, I think that's probably I just hope it's one year where it was this fluky thing with everyone being hurt.

I hope we're back next year again in the mix.

He'll be fine. It's an old team that ended up having a lot of injuries, which was predictable. But the Daniels thing is probably more concerning because you have this RG3 shadow from that whole era. It's hard not to think about.

He's had four injuries in a year and a half to miss time. Four. It's like, man, So I'm nervous about that for sure. I'm just hoping that, okay, we win four games, get a high pick, and let's move on, get everybody healthy in the offseason, reinvent certain positions. And I just hope they're back relevant again. They don't take the playoffs every year, but you can't give me NFC Championship game to this. You can't do that. That's not right for the fan base, the loyalists like myself.

We'll see you on Christmas. I hope you get a great game. I look forward to watching it. Happy holidays. Same. Thanks, as always, for coming up.

Absolutely. Appreciate it, Bill. Happy holidays.

All right, Joe House is here shortly before one of his favorite days of the year, Christmas, which is the second most you eat other than Thanksgiving.

Well, you The nice thing about where Christmas falls on the calendar this year is that today is my favorite day. It's Christmas Adam today. Tomorrow's Christmas Eve, and then we have Christmas. I just got back from a lunch of giant ice raw bar platter of Chesapeake Bay oysters, spice shrimp with some delicious Old Bay, and maybe a couple of frozen. Maybe a couple.

I was going to say, you seem like you're not sick anymore and you have your energy back.

Tis the season, brother.

Tis the season. So you've decided you have enough white blood cells in your body again to just start drinking during the day.

Just day drinking. That's what Christmas is for.

Well, Christmas Christmas is also for comebacks. Just everyone's getting an isolated Meringer 107. This is now the worst regular season I think I've had. Not Sheil.

Sheil was cooking.

What did Sheil do? Five and zero. Oh, my God. Sheil's in second. I almost went O and five. Sheil's in second. I need to win 10 straight just to finish with 500. I'm already focused on the playoffs. I'm already thinking ahead. Playoffs are all that matters. I like the Chiefs.

Why didn't you take the Titans last week? That was one of my favorite bets of the week.

Because Schrager was guessing for you, and he talked me out of the Titans.

Come on. I gave out the Titans. I gave out the Saints plus Shuck over 275. That was a plus.

You did that on Sunday. We're making the pics on Thursday.

Nobody asked me. I love the States last week.

I should have asked you.

It's okay. You're allowed.

I was so disgruntled with pics and everything. I passed the point of caring, but now I care because we have to get ready for playoffs again.

Well, Well, this is miserable because week 17 and week 18 have nothing but incredible variants all over.

I had an awesome gambling week in real life last week.

Yeah, me too. Great one.

Happy. Then I gave some of it back last night with a Colts underteased. They underlossed with five minutes into the game. I don't know what happened on the Colts defense. Then on the flip side, I don't know what to make of the Niners offense because they now look like the 99 rims.

Respectfully, again, Ringer Gambling Show, first part of Monday, I gave out the San Francisco Money Line parlayed with the Colts over 20 and a half. That only paid out plus 280. That was a plus 280 parlay that I gave out to all of America first part of Monday, because I thought there was a great chance the Colts would be able to move the ball against that San Francisco defense.

I did, too. That's why I took them plus five and a half. I didn't realize they give up 48.

We also talked about the Seattle had six scoring drives against this Colts defense. The difference is they were all field goals. Half of those were touch downs. That game wouldn't have been close.

Yeah, that's a good point.

San Francisco has been absolutely cooking since purry came back. Four and no straight up, four and no against the spread going into last night. Every win by double digits. Well, let's just make it five in a row. Five and no against the spread, five and no straight up, five straight games by double digits.

And we might be taking them again this week. Might be. I like for Oze House. Maybe this is where we needed to go for the pics. This could be the last thing that saves it. Drunk House just needed to come back. Drunk House got sick. I'm right here, baby. Drunk House couldn't be Drunk House. Now you're back.

Old-fashioned, it's for Oze. It's the season.

We have three Christmas games that include- Negroni with Ryan.

Go ahead.

Negroni with Ryan. We have Washington, your favorite team, plus seven against Dallas, who now has somehow the worst DBOA defense in the league. They passed the Bengals this week.

They passed Washington.

The Bengals were in historical conversations for having the worst DBO defense of all time. And by week 17, they had been passed by the Cowboys. And I thought your team looked pretty good last week for a bad team.

That was going to be really fun coming down the stretch until Marriott got hurt. As soon as he went out, I was like, Oh, fuck, this is a double-digit loss.

If Marriott didn't get hurt, maybe.

They can move the ball against that eagles's defense, and they were moving the ball against the eagles's defense.

So who is the quarterback this week for the Washington team?

I believe it is going to be Jeff Driskill, spelled with a K. D-r-i-s-k-e-l.

Say no more. Cross it off.

I already have bets. The line was six and a half. Dallas, six and a half. I jumped all over. I got every bit of that I could.

That's a complete stay away from it.

No, I understand, but they're going to beat Washington's ass.

And yet Dallas isn't good, so who knows? Next one, Vikings, Lions, Vikings plus seven in that game. And Brozmer is probably playing because JJ McCarthy got hurt. Brozmer wasn't bad last week. Brozmer? Brozmer?

Brozmer. I think it's Bro. It's Brozmer with a bro.

The bro wasn't bad last week.

The bro, that's what we're calling them.

You know who's going to make them look good? He helped serve. It's a defense that stinks.

They stink. Holy cow. They picked my pocket last week.

I I think this line is a little high.

I agree with you.

I don't want to stay away from the first two Christmas games. This is Netflix, right? This is our friends at Netflix.

They are our friends. We would never steer them wrong. Let's get involved here.

They're going to have to rig one of these games to make them exciting. So why not this one? Vikings plus seven. I watched that whole Vikings Giants game last week because I had the Vikings in a five-team money line parlay that Baker Mayfield ended up sodomizing. But the Vikings plus seven with the ability to run the ball, with the ability to blitz a Detroit team that has no offensive line.

Yes.

It feels like a closer game than seven.

I mean, division game, Vikings at home. The Vikings, very quietly, their defense has been very steady over the last six weeks or so. It should have been my wise wager on Sunday. I I like them against the Giants. I think that they can win.

That barely won, though.

It barely won. I know. Bare won. But the defense won the game for them. And ultimately, this number is too fat. What world are we living in where the lions deserve a full breakdown? That team, that's a clown show over there.

Well, the other thing is they can't block. Cannot. And it just seems like a nice matchup for the Vikings. This feels a little square to me, But I think it's just because of Brozma, right? That's the only reason why.

Jonathan Greener is not playing. He's out for the rest of the season. He is the Viking's top pass rusher. So that would be part of why you would be- Everybody's missing two guys at this point.

I also really like the Broncos in the third game, which is going to be on Amazon. They're minus 12 and a half against the Chiefs as we do this. The Chiefs have Chris OlaDucan. What's his name?

Ola Ola Candy?

Ola Michael Ola Candy is the quarterback for the Chiefs.

Michael Chris OlaDucan Ola Candy.

The Chiefs showed us how they plan on handling the rest of the season by not winning or competing.

Let me ask you this on that very point. Is this the farewell game for Kelsey?

Where's it going?

To make five babies with Taylor Swift. She might already have two of them right now.

They might not be a Week 18, Kelsey, you're saying? So he just plays this one and this is why he says he's retiring after the game.

Isn't this their last home game?

Yeah, he'll play in Week 18. What does it matter?

But I'm saying for his home crowd, this could be The Fairwell game for both Kelsi. What's the announcement? Are they going to do a deal with Arrowhead Stadium? Are they going to keep one of the venerated stadiums in all of professional football, or are they going to move to fucking Kansas?

I thought they First of all, I researched this. It doesn't seem like a big deal that they're moving. It's Missouri and Kansas. They share Kansas City. Not a big deal.

It's Arrowhead Stadium.

It's the oldest stadium in the league. They had to get rid of it.

Like, oh, they're moving from It'll be a Green Bay. Oh, we're moving from Lambo 20 minutes away.

All right, bite your tongue. Arrowhead is not Lambo.

Brother.

When we were growing up, we were like, Hey, someday we got to go to a game at Arrowhead. Come on.

It's fine. It's achieving It's quite a bit. I mean, a lot of things have happened there over the last- That's fine.

Everything ends. We lost Sullivan Stadium once upon a time, the New England Patriots. We? Yeah, the Patriots fans. And the best game ever played in Sullivan Stadium was the last game ever, the snow game.

This is what I'm getting at.

Yeah. What if? You think there's going to be a motion? What if?

It's a what if?

What are you talking about?

Twelve and a half. It It was my favorite bet last week was the Titans on the Money Line, Titans at home against that completely decimated Chief.

I had it. What if I parlayed Denver at six and a half and took the under to 43 and a half and bet that these teams could not get to 44 points if they had seven quarters?

That part is fine. You would just be worried about Denver getting it because Denver was embarrassed. Denver was moving the ball. Yeah, they were embarrassed by the way that the Jaguars panced them last week.

It sounds like this is the stay away. I mean, we could also just I think the Broncos minus 12 and a half and think it's a sad game.

The Chief's last game is at Vegas. This is their last... It's not that he's playing. This is a Christmas game in primetime on Prime Video, Kelsey and Arrowhead, possibly the farewell for both of them. I don't want to get in front of that.

Do you think they rig it? Do you think the NFL calls it in?

They have injuries on defense, and that's really the reason why you would be like, go ahead and just lay the points. But I don't know, man.

The NFL tried to call in the Ravens pats game, and Drake may had other ideas. They boned us at nine calls.

No, and Harbaugh. Holy cow. How can that guy come back? How can that guy possibly come back next year?

What's the scenario? I don't understand why Derrick Henry didn't play.

Do we have Derrick Henry on our team? Is he even on our team?

He had the series off.

How did they not give his resignation letter already?

Ravens packers, Ravens plus two and a half. Ironically, the Ravens. Green Bay is in if Detroit loses. We just had to look up before we came on who the packer's third string quarterback was, and his name is Clayton Toon.

Toon. Mr. Toon's The Ravens are very proud of him.

The Ravens, I got to be honest, slightly hampered Lamar versus Hunt. I'm not sure there's a major difference. It's not like going from Mahomes to who's the third string guy in the Chiefs again?

Dune.

Chris Oduke.

Ola Candy.

Chris Oduke, Ola Candy? Yeah. There's a parlay possibility here. Ravens plus four and a half with the under 54 and a half. It's a night game at Lambo. Where are they at? This game has 55 points.

Not betting any more money on the Ravens. The Ravens can go fuck themselves. The way they ended that game, remember, we've only had two shenanigan games out of the Hot Trash Ravens this season. The very first game of the season against Buffalo when they were up by 15 points with seven minutes left. And then the hot trash, let's find a way. How can we lose this football game? Let's invent it. Over the last 10 minutes when we're up 10 points against the Patriots with our goddamn season on the line, all we have to do is win this football game. We're up 10 with 10 minutes left, and then we can rest week 17, everybody get healthy, and go win the division week 18. Can we go do that? No, no chance. We're clowns. We're jokers.

You left out the part they were going against 2010 Aaron Rodgers combined with John O'Hee and Drake May.

You left out that part. Say whatever you want. A beat-up Patriots offensive line Yeah, it didn't matter.

Jake May got pressured 47% of the time.

Patrius missing the middle of their defense. Is that exploitable? No. Not by the Ravens. Keaton Mitchell. Make sure we have a rotation. You got to get Keaton Mitchell all of his touches in the fourth quarter.

Derrick Henry is old. They're trying to arrest him.

They did. He's going to get a lot of rest this offseason when they're not in the playoffs.

I'm marking down Ravens plus four and a half with under 45 and a half as a part of it. You go nuts.

I want no part of it.

Jags He's in a Texan's Colts. Here's the scenario. Colts are alive. They have to win twice. They have to hope Houston loses twice. Jaguars win the AFC South with a win and a Texans loss. Colts are out if Houston wins. And Colts Texan is playing week 18. That's why we mentioned that.

Right. It's not that they're hoping that Houston loses twice. They could beat Houston. That's how they have to do it. They have to beat Houston in week 18.

Well, they're going to know on Sunday because on Saturday, the Chargers host the Texans. And if the Chargers win that game, nothing the Colts do matter. But I don't even know, does Phil Rivers say like, Okay, guys, I'll see you later. I got the Chargers in the playoff. I'm good. That was my goal. But Jags are minus five and a half against the Colts. You can do a A little parlay action with that one. You could go Jags minus one and a half and the over 41 and a half works in the contest rules. But we'll do chargers, Texans first. I watched every play of that Texans game Sunday because I had my fantasy season relying on C. J. Stroud and Nico Collins. They had so much trouble moving the ball against Vegas and a good pass rush. They can't run the ball because Woody Marks is hurt and they just have no other threats. Stroud was legitimately We saw and I talked about it on Sunday. Now they're playing this chargers team that all they do is play really good defense. They can run the ball now, two running backs. Herbert has been great for a month, and they win every week.

So A, why am I taking the Texans in that game when they're playing a better version of the Raiders? So they barely won last week. B, chargers can just put shit away with this. And then C, if Houston loses, that keeps Jag's Colts alive, which I think the NFL likes when that happens. Just starting that out there, too.

Fair point. Here's my concern. I don't think Houston prepared for that Vegas game as though it was a potential playoff game for them. I think that they did a game plan that was the old, just enough, the old Milton Burrell.

I thought that as watching, I was getting mad. They're just trying not to do anything, basically.

First of all, we want confirmation about Woody Marks. How's he looking for that game on Saturday? But more importantly, the thing that concerns me is Houston has a defense that is equal to or superior to the Eagles. And the way that the Eagles played the chargers in LA, I expect to see something that is very close, very Very close. Seven sacks, 70 % pressure. And the Chargers won that game because they let Jalen Hertz just go ahead and beat himself and take the Eagles completely out of that game. That defense for Houston can take away every single thing that the Chargers want to do. Their pressure, to me, is superior to what the eagles are capable of bringing.

I would have agreed with you until I watched the Raiders.

I know.

Have open guys in the game. I understand. I get it. And run the ball and have explosive plays. And I thought the only case for it is that Houston was just looking ahead to the week later and that's it because they were bad. They were bad on both sides, and I thought they deserved to lose.

Oh, they could have lost. They definitely could have.

Yeah, they definitely... They blew everybody's 10-point teases if you did those. They barely covered the Houston money line stuff that everybody had. So it sounds like, well, then Jags, Colts. I don't know if the Jags lose again this season. I think they have the eye of the Tiger. I don't want to even think about going against them until the playoffs. It sounds like you like the Texans more than the Chargers.

I think I do. I have so much respect for the Chargers.

I'm tired of going against the Chargers. I understand. I just feel like they stick it to me every time.

They were underdogs in all three games. They were underdogs against the Eagles. They were underdogs against the Chiefs. They were underdogs against Dallas. And all they do is come out and play really, really, really impressive defense. Their defense has been outstanding for the past month.

Herbert was really good last week, too.

That's the toughest mother effort. A lot of people, including us, have had a lot of fun at his expense. But that's one tough big boy. He has been playing big boy football now. Taking the hits. Part of the handicap for why I thought the Eagles had a nice chance, that left hand was all banged up. Him going down on it. He can't run. It doesn't matter. He just takes it. He takes it like a man. I'm just been so impressed.

I still might take the chargers as one of my picks. It's okay. I really cooled off on Houston after last week. Sure. Understood. It might be an overreaction.

Completely understandable.

I was really unimpressed. I get it. I don't think Vegas is good.

I'm not arguing with you. I am not arguing with you. I understand.

Panthers, Seahawks. Panthers plus seven and a half at home against the Seahawks. We're this line of the week. What would you make of it?

Seahawks roll. The Panthers are every other week, and their season comes down to week 18. They have to beat Tampa again. That's it. That's why Tampa is favorite to win the division. That's why the Panthers handle Tampa. No problem whatsoever. I love Seattle here.

Well, so there's a world where the Dolphins beat the Bucks, the Panthers could actually win the division this week if they somehow beat Seattle. I think the line is a little too high, but it also makes me suspicious. Why is the line so high? Why should we trust Seattle on the road on grass in same Donald's own haunt Carolina.

Seattle has been awesome on the road. I think that they have covered nearly every game for two years. They've only lost twice on the road in two. It's an awesome team under Mike McDonald, an awesome road team.

So Niners The bears, Niners minus three against the bears. If Green Bay lose the Saturday night, the bears quench the NFC South. And the bears have now had six come from behind wins in the last two minutes, which has only happened zero times since 1970. The Niners are looking really good. The bear should have lost last week. If the bears had lost last week, if they just lose 16 to nine, what's the line for this game?

That's a great question.

Four and a half, five. It's minus four, four and a half. Getting an onside kick give them an extra point and a half.

Romeo Dobbs did it. He gave it to him.

Is there some recency bias with how good the Niners looked? And now your peak of the market with the Niners?

Five weeks. Is that recency bias? One of the most efficient offenses in the NFL.

I like Niners minus three.

Me too. We're in lockstep on this. Okay.

What game did I not mention that you like?

I think the Eagles have something up their sleeve. They still have an outside chance at the two seed. It's a long shot. But if this bears team loses, the bears will know the outcome of eagles bills on Monday night.

I think that's the eagles team. So that's in Buffalo, and the eagles are plus one and a half.

They're getting back both Jalen Carter and most importantly, Lane Johnson. Lane Johnson is definitely going to play. And Bills are beat up. They came out of that Cleveland game. Allen's got something going on with an ankle or a foot. Allen's hurt.

He has a bad ankle. Yeah.

Whatever that thing is. Jordan Poeyer, it seems like he's going to be out. This EGLEs team The defense has been outstanding for the most part, other than the second half against Dallas. They've been very, very stout. This is a game where this is a state your class game. Eagles went out. They still have a chance at that two seed. It's not that they need the bears to lose both, but that's conceivable. Bears have two tough games left.

I thought the I thought the Bills defense was alarming last week against Cleveland. If Cleveland was any good at all, they would have won the game. They just couldn't really put it together. But they were getting explosive plays with guys you never heard of. It's still really hard for the Bills to move the ball without the explosive plays. They're just putting so much pressure on Cook. I feel like the Eagles should be able to take Cook out, right? Yes. Kind of shrink the field, make Allen try to beat them over the top. I like the Eagles as well. I think that's a good point about, are we sure Carter and Lane Johnson are coming back?

Lane Johnson is definitely back.

Okay. All right. Well, we have five unless there's another game you like.

No, I'm happy. I wanted to make sure we got the The Eagles and the Niners were my two favorite.

Eagles and the Niners. Well, that's great because I didn't know that, and I really like the Niners. Okay. So we have today's Ringer 107 brought to you by Fandil, hoping to change our luck this week. It's been a pretty gruesome year. I still feel good about the playoff, though. I mean, cheers to us. Listen, I'm going to keep my process the way it's always been. Sometimes it's not... And by the way, if people want to go against us every week, great. I just hope people get picks either way. First one, Christmas Day, Vikings plus seven against the Lions who have no offensive line and no defense. We don't really care who the quarterback for Minnesota is. Minnesota's defense can carry this one. Ugly game, probably a little under. I think the Vikings could actually win, and so does Joe House. It's impossible. It's a money line play.

It's a money line play.

But we're going to take the plus seven and we get a countdown. That's the first one. Second one, Parley. House didn't love this one, but I like the fact that Clayton 2 might play for the packers in this game. Saturday night, Ravens. If they played Derrick Henry with seven minutes left, did they just beat the pats and we feel great about them? Probably.

Who can say? Ask Coach Harbaugh.

Parley, Ravens plus four and a half. Under 54 and a half. Let's go 55 points combined to beat this with Clayton Toon or Malik Willis, maybe Tyler Hunt. I don't see 55 points.

3-base defense is excellent.

It's fine. I don't see 55.

It's your pick, not mine.

Yeah, I think it's a three-point game. I'm getting four and a half. I might win, and I don't think it's high scoring. There's two. I'm deliberately defying house on this one. This is one of my picks, Chargers minus 1. 5 against the Texans.

It's a fifty-fifty game. I'm not going to say anything disrespectful about the chargers.

I was one of the leaders of the Texans defense is awesome being. I didn't like how they looked at all against the Raiders last week. I don't like that they're giving up plays Up and down the field and big plays. I just wanted a little more. Chargers minus one and a half. All their offensive weapons are back. They've learned how to play without their tackles. Herbert has gone up a level. I like Carbaugh over the Texans coaching staff in close games.

Fine.

We've seen Harbaugh do this.

Understandable.

I think they can run the ball. If the Chargers win this, the Texans keep the Colts alive. If the Colts can somehow beat the Jaguars, we would have a Colts Houston game that means something. People are starting to get worried about there being no week 18 game that has any sauce.

I mean, Panthers Bucks is going to be there.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Does that game have sauce? We watched that game last Sunday. Did you enjoy it?

It's the worst sauce that's out there. I can't even come up with a bad sauce because I love sauces.

It's the Mr. G's Special Sauce. Remember we were Jersey Shore that time with Jacko? We went to Mr. G's and they had the omelet with the Mr. G's Special Sauce, and we made like a million jokes about Mr. G.

Did anyone eat it? I don't remember.

I was scared. I didn't know how Mr. G was depleting his sauce. All right, so that's pick three. Niners minus three bears We're both aligned on this one. And by the way, if Green Bay loses on Saturday, the Bears quinch this NFC South. We'd have the one seat to maybe play for. Not that realistic, but that line probably goes up. And then last but not least, we both like the Eagles Buffalo against Buffalo team that barely hung on against Cleveland last week. The Eagles might be getting some guys back house. Carter, Lane Johnson. Yeah.

Could this be the game where the...

Could this be the Eagles tease everyone and thinking they're back and the NFC runs through them? Maybe.

Maybe. No, this is a game, it lines up the same way where we watched the Eagles go into Green Bay, and it's just this super low scoring. Their defense dominates. It's like that game.

It'll be interesting to see if the Eagles can force Josh Allen to not be in a fun game. That was today's Ringer 107 brought to you by Fandil. Odds subject to change. Any NBA thoughts you want to throw in before we go? I just did 90 minutes of legwork.

Whatever the line is for that Cleveland. I like the Knicks on the money line.

Oh, you want to do a Christmas game?

I got a couple of thoughts. A couple of games that I got circled, like the over.

So you don't want to take the dysfunctional calves on Christmas? Dysfunctional family calves?

I did give out, again, on the Monday show, the line for the Charlotte Hornets in Cleveland. Cleveland was laying nine and a half. I said, Please, everybody, run right now. It's middle of the day Monday. I know you're busy Christmas shopping. Get to the sportsbook, grab the nine and a half. That's a big fat winner. Of course, it was a big fat winner right out there. Charlotte lost by seven. Not 10, though. That's a winner.

They were down the whole game, too. Yeah. So we have next minus six. We have OKC minus 11 and a half against San Antonio. That's too rich.

Too many points.

Dallas plus 235 against Golden State. The Rockets minus 180 against the Lakers. I have no idea who's playing for the Lakers. And then Minnesota plus 158 against Denver. You want to do a little five-teamer just for fun?

Yeah, it's Christmas.

Maybe we'll change our luck.

It's Christmas. Let's see what we can do here.

Okay. So next money line?

Great. On board with that.

Okc money line?

That's fine.

They have- You don't want to do the OKC money line?

That line is seven, by the way. What number did you say that was?

For what?

Oklahoma City in San Antonio.

I have eleven and a half on Thursday. The Tuesday line is seven.

Yeah, the Tuesday line is seven. Yeah, I got it.

All right. Okc minus 560. Dallas plus 235 or Golden State minus 290? Will Dre might even be on the team on Christmas?

Steph Curry going to come out on Christmas. Well, I mean, here's the problem. We're doing this Tuesday. Who the hell knows who's going to play in any of these games?

I like Dallas. We're going to take Dallas plus seven and a half?

Okay, that's fine. I'm good with that.

Rockets, Lakers, Rockets Money Line?

You know what I prefer with that one? It's 228 and a half, the total. I think that's a fly over, a super fly over 228 and a half. Okay.

I'm going to do the Rockets minus 180 as well.

Okay.

Well, let's do Money Lines. The overs are too hard. Okay, fine. Do the minus, do 28 on your own time.

All right.

I'll do it. Minnesota, Denver. Denver minus 5, Denver minus 188. And Anthony Andrews, never afraid of Denver at any point. No. Kind of like Minnesota.

Interesting. So we would put two dogs into this five-legger, huh? Minnesota and Dallas. That gets us. That's a giant parlay.

That gets us. That's a giant parlay. Dallas plus seven and a half, Houston Money Line, Minnesota money line. Wow, that's a big ass number. The giant. That gets us. Wow. $100 to win 1,233?

It's plus- Better than 10 to 1.

Better than 12 to 1 odds.

12 to 1.

Yeah. Nix, OKC, Dallas plus seven and a half, Houston, Minnesota money line.

I mean, I like it based on what we've seen thus far this season.

Is there anyone you don't feel great about out of those five? I mean, that. That you throw out Dallas? You want to do the Golden State money instead?

That would be my preference, but that's okay. I don't mind. This is how you get it juiced up. And I understand Dallas is playing hard. They just don't have enough scoring at the end of games.

Golden State. If it's Golden State money, that's plus 839. I like the Dallas plus seven and a half.

You do both.

All right. Let's see. Maybe Fando will throw that on their Christmas thing for us. There you go.

They can make a little tree and put these. These are the ordinance hanging down.

House, go back to your rosé. Make sure there's a picture. See if you can make yourself sick.

It's the frozen, not the rosé. It's frozen. Christmas season.

Yeah. Frozen. Christmas season. Yeah. Frosé, that was the same thing. You almost got me in marital trouble.

It's a trial separation.

I drank it all. You broke my Frosé machine when you was listening. I didn't break it. I just drank it all.

It It was broken.

It was gone.

It emptied it. Then I went to bed at nine o'clock like an adult.

Good luck with the gambling. Happy holidays. Let's go. Happy holidays.

Great seeing with you. Great seeing with you. Good job by us.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Legs. Thanks to House. Thanks to Eduardo. Thanks to Gehow. Don't forget rewatchables. Three up in the last week and a half. High Fidelity, SureThing, and then F1. So enough content for me, at least, I think, to keep everybody busy over the holidays, not to mention all the other stuff you're watching and consuming. Have a great holiday. Thanks for all the support in 2025. Enjoy your fans. I hope you stay safe, and I will see you on Sunday night with Cousin Sal. Must be 21 plus in President Select States for a Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 Gamble or visit rg-help. Com. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg. Org/chat-in-connect or md-gamblinghelp. Org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema. Org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8 Hope, N-Y or text Hope, N-Y in New.