Transcript of The Fall of the Chiefs (Maybe), SGA Superstar Tips, the Wildes-Greeny Feud, and Week 15 Picks

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But what is really behind it? With the podcast, Ticket to Anywhere, you look behind the scenes of the traffic. Schauspieler Maximilian Mund reist to his grandma, meets exciting people like Malte Zierden oder Linda Zervakes, and explains everything to bus and Bahn, and how they can get better. Experience an extraordinary audio experience around our everyday mobility. Now listen to Spotify or on zukunftnahverkehr. De/podcast. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday. One of the most fun ones we did this year, we did Shampoo with Cameron Crow and Sean fantasy. And Cameron Crow just told a bunch of stories about movies I love, like Singles and Jerry Maguire, and of course, Almost Famous, Say Anything. But we did it all through the context of the movie. It was a great podcast. Next week's Rewatchables, we recorded yesterday. It was four people. You heard me mention it with Rob Mahoney. We did High Fidelity. Twenty-five years since that movie came out. John Cusack, just a lot going on. The end of Gen X, we hit a lot of good topics with that one. So that is coming on Monday.

We're running out of Mondays for the rewatchables. We're heading into mid-December. We are not running out of music box documentaries. Jeff Buckley was last week, this week, Whizz-Kid. By the time you When the pod goes up, it'll probably already have been up on HBO, but it'll be on HBO Max. Really, really cool doc. You get to learn about the history of Afrobeats, and he's an incredible artist. This is a really well done. You will enjoy it and you will learn a lot. Go check that out on HBO. Coming up on this podcast, nick Wright. We've been circling each other for a long, long time, and we're going to argue now that Patrick Mahomes' career is over, we're going to argue about it on this podcast, plus a lot of other fun sports takes. Then a bruise battered Joe House, really fighting for his job here on the BS podcast. We cannot get good gambling pics. He's doing better on the Sunday show than he's doing on this show, and his job's on the line. I don't know what else to say. If it doesn't work out this week, I'm going to make other arrangements as we head into the playoff.

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All right. I wanted to wait until the Chief's dynasty and Patrick Mahomes. His career was over before I had this guy on, nick Wright. He hosts the show called First Things First with my buddy Kevin Wilds on FS1, among other things. Now the Chiefs are dead and you can finally come on. It's good to have you.

It's one way to look at it, or it only took four days into Rich Paul being at the Ringer for me to finally be on the show.

The clutch was a takeover. It's my God. That's it. I should have worn my brown clutch sweatshirt with the Chutsey Billups hat when it was getting arrained.

Well, that That was unfortunate for all involved.

I forgot about the clutch piece. That's funny. That's a good one.

Let me do the uncomfortable part that you'll be upset with me in the beginning. So despite the fact that many of your LeBron and basically all of your Mahomes takes have infuriated me, this is the one show that I always wanted to go on, and I've been very lucky that I had never been on, and I wanted to tell you God, it might have been 20 years ago, close to it, because we have a mutual... We both have a friend, Connor. I grew up with him. He's a with us, and you've known him forever. I compiled in Microsoft Excel, the archive of your NBA player trade value, all of them, year by year for all of it, to try to see what the overall Amari Stoudemire once was a six and then fell off, and tried to do a whole smart thing of, Could you then retroactively do it for previous eras with this is the template to see 1970s, 1970s, How does that compare to 2000-aught LeBron? Then I never had, back in the day, never had the gumption to actually ask Connor to send it to you, and I couldn't find it right now.

I am a long-time reader and admirer, and so it is fun to be on here, and I'll be able to finally debunk some of this Mahomes stuff. It's been so hard.

Oh, that's good. It's been so painful. We could actually start with NBA. Now you got me excited because that was on my docket. Okay. I was trying to figure out this SGA thing, which has been I've talked about him a bunch of times already this year on my show, and I feel like it's a story evolving in real-time where this guy... It's him and Jokaj levitating above everybody else. But there's this two-year thing that's in for him now where they won all these games last year, it looks like they're going to win 70 plus games this year and maybe even break some records. There's some streak records that are possibly in play. There's a season record in play. There's him for the decade where he's basically averaging 30 plus points a game for half a decade at this point. And now I was starting to think this the first week, I thought to myself, All right, what happens if they win 75 games? He averages 33 a game, and they win the title, and they go back to back. Where does he go in my brain? Is he immediately a top 30 player? If he got abducted by aliens the next day, is he still in top 30?

What is going on, basically, is the question I've been asking.

So this is Listen, you and I are similar in that we just say in regular conversation, Yeah, he's top 18. Forget round numbers. We're being precise here because it matters. And And I get very upset when our mutual dear friend, the legend, Zack Lo, I sent him four years ago a text because he just said almost flippantly, Kevin Durant, one of the 10 greatest players of all time, and I text him. I'm like, Zack, if you put pencil to paper, you would not agree with yourself there. The problem with top 10 is you only have 10. And so I think top... Sga, I find so interesting because I can't think of another domestic player that ended up being an all-time legend that through the first two years of his career, no one thought all-time legend was possible.

Do you understand what I mean? But you don't think rookie year Kobe, we can glorify now and go backwards, but I don't think anybody thought he was going to be one of the top 12 guys of all time after his rookie year. No. I mean, we hoped.

That's a fair point on Kobe, and maybe I'm grading the high school kids on a curve. Maybe I shouldn't. But it feels to me like most of the guys who now are swimming the waters that you're talking about SGA potentially getting to.

You're talking about the Duncan LeBron, the guys that have come in this century, basically.

Yes, or even guys that aren't in that pantheon but are Dwyane Wade and hell, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, in that 20s range. Those guys, during their rookie year, people were like, This guy is supposed to be an MVP. This guy and the guys who pop on us, Yannis and Jokić, the excuse is, They were international guys. It was a black box. I've never, and I know SGA is Canadian.

There's high school guys, same thing where it's like, All right. Year two, year three, huh?

Right. A guy getting this much better, year three to four, four to five, five to six, to where it's like, wait. If you would have asked me three years ago, it's not that long ago, will SGA ever be the best player in the league? I would have said, get fuck out of it. No. It was like, he might be seventh, which is amazing. But for the consistent improvement, and to your point, about if that team wins 70 plus, and it's like, do they have another consensus top 20 guy? Like, J Dub, maybe. But when you see how they play without him, it feels like they've got nine guys, 21 to 75.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It's tough for J Dub, and it's like, no, he's a top 15 guy. And then they go 23 and one, and he stopped playing. It's like, oh, maybe not.

And it's tough for Chad When it's like what he can be. And it's like, well, we've seen them with and without him. And so there isn't right now a comp for his career. And you were big last year on best guard seasons we've seen. And in real time, I was like, man, this feels like a little premature. But then he did what he did. And now I'm worried about NBA talk on the TV show because we're still all football. But I'm like, What is the conversation if every single person agrees, Yeah, unless there is catastrophic injury, this team's winning the championship. And that's how it feels right now about OKC.

I like how you spun that. So how does this affect you, nick Wright? Not the NBA.

Well, I mean, the NBA-Go ahead.

But it's funny because I was with Jacobi last night, and he was saying what you just said, multiplied by five. He was mad. He came over to watch the Cup games. And he was- The NBA Cup has risen to the place of- Well, we were having dinner. He was in town. Yeah, let's watch basketball. We're some food. He comes over. It's like, Okay, see, 95. Phoenix 52. And Jacobi was just like, I hate OKC. He does this on a show, too. These guys are ruining everything. Who wants to watch this? We should just split their team in half. He was doing that all day.

We dropped the take today that the rest of the NBA should be embarrassed. He's like, This is a little embarrassing for the rest of the league that this team is doing this. He's like, At least with the Steph KD Warriors, you understood it. It's like this was an unbelievable team that added Kevin Durant. I didn't really answer your question.

Wait, can I interrupt you on that? Please. I think part of the problem here When this has happened before with the great teams that we've had, at least in the last 35, 40 years. Mj, when this happened with the Bulls in the '95, '96 season, people were so excited to have him back. Yes. And so excited, especially after the Orlando series, the previous spring. So excited to see him reclaim his throne. And then that was really one of the first times we really cared about the wins record. I think that probably started with the 76ers in '83. I don't even think in the '80s, that was The Bulls team was the first time people were like, Oh, how many could they win? And it was the thing. And then the Warriors were compelling because all the drama and Durant and is this fair? But with OKC, they just really They're currently to put together this awesome team. They kill everybody. There's no backlash to it yet. It's fun to watch, when they have close games, but I don't think people know how to put it in context yet.

No, they have no controversial personalities. Nothing. The closest thing is like, Oh, their group interviews are corny. That didn't have any meat to it. Or people going after Shay as a fashionista, that had no meat to it. I really do think people could seize on the fact that Chad Holmgren seems to be on the record that he's never read a book. That, to me, I think has something to it.

Very small backlash, though.

Right. There's none of that. I think there's two other pieces to it. It is such a tactical and almost mechanical, not in a bad way, style. They're just like, Hey, we're going to play really efficient basketball and at all times have five monster defenders on the court, and you're just going to be like, Next game is probably going to be easier, and we're going to win. Our star player is this really one-of-one stylistic talent who also, and this was the only thing they came close to the backlash on, has figured out better than anyone ever how to game the system on the- The lunch. Right, which is His little lunch. Validating one thing. It's another thing. Sometimes you watch Shay, and again, he's going to be the MVP again, probably. But it's like, I don't think he went into that move with the hope of making a basket. I think he went that move with the hope of drawing a foul. I think people don't love that, but it doesn't matter because it's wildly effective and nobody seems to have an answer for it. I know you're holding out hope that Denver and Joker can do it.

And NBA history tells us that what can stop a team like this is what stopped the 16 Warriors. I know you have your suspension theories. What it really was is the greatest three-game stretch in the history of the league by an all-time great player.

You mean when they got bailed out by Adam Silver? What's the theory? The theory is that- Did he even hit LeBron on the ball? It's like it happened. So it's like a flick.

The theory is that LeBron James had 41 points and the Cavs won by double digits without Draymond. Then in the next game, LeBron James had 41 points and the Cavs won by double digits with Draymond.

The idea- That was in Cleveland.

Yeah, the games move places. Let me ask you this.

After game four, when the Warriors played, I think the best game of their- I didn't feel great about it. Yeah, and that was the whole, All right, let's see. It's an awesome game that I wish they showed more in Hardware Classics, but we were ending that game, it was like, wow, they shut the Cavs down. This is a wrap.

It sure did feel that way. And then, luckily, the greatest player in the history of the sport had the greatest three-game stretch in the history of the sport, and that wrapped things up.

Michael Jordan?

That's neither here nor there. The point that I'm... To me, the hope for Denver is analogous to maybe Joker can do a 2016 brawn, where it's like, The other team's way better, but I'm just going to carry, go on this supernova stretch.

What you would also need, SJ would have to be injured because Curry was banged up in the playoffs. Oh, my God. And SJ would have to release It's a terrible shoe, and we would need some suspension for game five. That would be the doppelganger.

The Curry was injured stuff. I'm going to- Well, he was. He was injured.

He played hurt. And then Bogot went down halfway through the series. That's how we ended up with Festus Azalea in game seven, trying to guard LeBron two times in a row.

That part did happen. But the Steph Curry protectionism, he's an all-time great player. Everybody knows it. But the Steph Curry protectionism him of, he can come back against Portland, set the all-time record in his first game back from the injury for points in overtime, literally bellowed to the crowd, I'm back. Had everyone, as you We're just saying four games into the series being like, this team is unstoppable. Steph's amazing about to win a championship, and then he doesn't play well in a game seven. It's like, Oh, Steph was injured. Give me a break. Give me a break.

I think the LeBron fans have done that with a couple of years, too. Here's the thing. This is going back to OKC.

Lebron broke his hand in 2018 and heroically hit him from everyone.

I forgot about that.

After the greatest game you've ever seen. Go ahead. Sorry.

We're talking about how OKC could be stopped. To me, the parallels. I mentioned this the other day with Mahoney. I want to dive into it because I'm interested in your take. The 07 pats, the streak, the pressure of that, playing a playoff game basically every week. They wore it down, and they really weren't even before that Super The playoffs, it wasn't the most inspiring.

That team peaked in week 12.

No question. I would say earlier. I thought they peaked the first half of the season.

I don't have the exact, but then you saw them holding on because remember, they almost lost that Ravens game. The Ravens They should have lost it. They should have lost it. They should have when they shouldn't have. But go ahead. Sorry.

It's an unimpressive chargers game, too, where they're playing Phil Rivers. He's got the torn ACL.

Phil Rivers also playing this week.

I know. I want to come to him later. But I'm wondering, with OKC, if there's a streak, because people love streaks. I thought the Miami- It wore down the 2013 heat. The 2013 heat, I thought, was one of the best moments of the 21st century for basketball. I was so into it. I loved it. Every game was a playoff game. When the Bulls beat them, it was significant. I wonder with this, okay, see, if they roll through the cup, if they get into the 20s with that streak, and now once you get to around 21, 22, people really start to care. You get to 25, you start passing some of the really memorable teams. Maybe the weight of that could sink them a little bit. I don't know.

Here's why it feels unlikely. Now, it should be said at this moment, in December of each of the last five years, four years, it has felt inevitable that the defending champion was going to win again. This time last year, it sure felt like Boston. Yeah, okay, see, then Boston is going to do it. And the year before to me felt like, yes, Denver is going to repeat. The only team that didn't feel like it was going to repeat was Golden State because that felt like a last hurrah type of thing. No question. And then the year before that, Milwaukee, I thought they were going to repeat up until the moment- Middleton got hurt. Chris Middleton got hurt. And none of those teams have even made the conference finals to defend their title. What feels different about this OKC team is two things. One is it feels like they can sustain the injury no matter who it's to, as long as it's not shit. Like anybody else- You could argue even with Shea, it might be like a 60-win team.

Well, that would be the most- Honestly, they just put Mitchell in there. They'd run more stuff through Jalen Williams. Their defense would still probably make them- Nothing would be- They'd win 75% of their games.

Nothing would be more confusing to the NBA ranking stuff that you were talking about at the start, and I'm not hoping for this, obviously. But if a week before the playoffs, Shay went out and it was done for the year and they won the title, that would be sneaky terrible. But for Shay, Right.

Would they be still favored? Probably not. But they'd be one of the three favorites in the West.

Yes, absolutely. I don't know. So the like, Oh, it's long seasons. Guy can go down. They seem immune to it. The fact that they are just to get to them in the West. One of these teams is going to have to play a war in round two feels like, man, how is it not going to happen?

It feels like we're headed for Denver, Houston, just hitting each other with two by fours for two solid weeks, and then the winner gets to play.

Okay, see. And it's also why the most interesting thing to me about the Western Conference playoff race, if you will, is there is massive incentive to be the three-seated or the two-seated. There is such a penalty if you're the four. That Lakers lost to that. I know the Lakers, you don't believe in them probably quite as much as I do, but that lost to the Spurs last night is low-key devastating. If you thought, And avoid OKC as long as possible. Being the four or five is a disaster.

It's just a disaster. Well, they've had the same. Rich talked about this on Monday on the pot about there's these young, long athletic teams that are just kryptonite for this Lakers group. They got killed by Atlanta earlier in the air. San Antonio yesterday. There's a certain type of team with a ton of energy that I think is going to be a problem for them on the schedule. But they're still a 50-win team. I guess the thing I want to figure out is how you balance with now that LeBron is back and you saw Reeves fall back a little bit and suddenly it doesn't look like Reeves anymore. Can you have those three guys? How do you make all three of them happy and get the right amount of production out of all three? And then how do you hide them on defense?

That's the other question. Listen, the defensive piece is, I don't think there's a fix to. They're just going to be a bad defensive team for the most part. I think you could add a piece, But that team's strength has to be, We're going to score 130. We're just going to be a monster offensively. I think that when LeBron first came back, Austin was still crushing. And the night LeBron's streak ended, Austin had 40. I do, and I know you probably think I'm biased on this, I do think LeBron, at this point, especially because the streak's over, is to a degree post stats in what he cares about. He has all the records. There's nothing else for him to chase in that. And because he missed all those games, because I do think he cares about all NBA stuff, but he's going to be ineligible.

He wasn't going to make it anyway.

Right. Well, I mean, again, he made it last year, but this year, he's going to be an element. It wasn't happening. Right. And so I do think he's going to be fine being Jack of all trades guy. And I think Reeves and Luca are really good offensive, really good one, two punch with LeBron filling in the blanks. I just don't know how they can guard anybody. I just don't know how they... And it feels like since Bron has been there, they haven't been able to guard point guards. And the year they had AD and Dwight and won the title, they were just so big, it was fine. But who can guard point guards on that team? I don't know.

And you're relying on DeAndre Ayton where it's gone pretty well for six weeks.

Shockingly well.

Yeah, but we know. We know what lurks inside. Yeah, I'm looking at my pyramid right now. If SGA went back to back, let's say they have a 25-game winning streak, they win between 70 and 74 games. Who It would be hard not to have him in the '20s with the resume he's had, with all the All-MBAs in a row. It's just that he would have to go down as the logical successor to the two guard chain, basically the best guard alive Championship belt goes to him for four years here.

Because I think our top 20 would... Maybe not... Obviously, the order is going to be different. But if I may, just real quick, just Bron, Kareem, Michael's everyone's top three. That's in stone.

It's an interesting order.

Well, that's the order I have it in, but I don't want to ask you about that right now.

That's fine. Magic. I would have Russell three, personally.

Oh, above Kareem?

Yeah, I go M. J. Lebron, Russell, Kareem. Okay. You know why? Because every time Bill Russell played in the playoffs, he won, except for the time he had a high ankle, spraying his foot almost came up his body. Or the other time, Wilt killed him in '67, but he was 11 for 13.

No, that's totally fair. I'm just trying to reverse engineer SGA because I want to- Those four have to start.

Yeah, you have to start with those four.

Magic Wilt, Duncan, Kobe. By the way, you're 100% right on Duncan over Kobe. It's the most frustrating argument, but that's fine. Bird. Bird after Kobe. Then is where at 9, or that's 9, at 10 is where it starts to be tricky because it's like, Hakeem, Shaq, Steph, Joker. Only one of those guys is a top 10 all-time player. Everyone can stop with the Yannis, Durant, Dr. Jay, who I love, Moses, who's the most underrated guy. We just told you nine, and only one. I don't know who you have highest of those four. I would assume you have Steph higher than Shaq and Hakeem, I struggle with that. I think Hakeem has become wildly underrated.

He has.

But again, SGA is not in that area. So let's just agree, those are the next four.

So 10, 11, 12, 13. My list is a little different. Tell me. I'm having a lot of trouble. Joker, how it plays out in the play-offs here, but just what he's done offensively now for seven years that has no parallel to basically anything in NBA history, it's tough not to nudge him toward that top 10.

But so you write, but...

And this is- To me, he's near Wilt at this point, but I do think he needs another title. Yeah, but you don't have him ahead of Larry Bird. No, but I do think Curry versus Kobe is a better argument that people I want to give it credit for. Kobe only won one MVP, and he won the two on his own. Steph on four, he won the one on his own, then the other three, I guess he could give him 15. But I just think it's a better argument that people give it credit for. Where Kobe wins it, I think, if you're going to give it to Kobe, is all those All-MBAs and everything else he did. Basically, after '08, he has this whole second prime that Steph hasn't really I totally had.

Listen, you and I are in lockstep on the... I think for the good and bad about Kobe. What is true on the con side of the ledger is he has a couple grizzly finals, and they're not always... And it's not just when he was a kid. His finals against the Pistons was a disaster. And it's not just the three-year smack dab in the middle of your prime where you miss the playoffs and then don't get out of round one. The blowing a three-one lead in round one in game seven, second half quitting is like a real thing. Now, he overcame it because of those titles. But does that offset enough of he was such a better defensive player than Steph? But that's a fair argument.

But you could argue with the... I mean, the case for Steph, if you're going to go deep on this, is the shooting and the threat of his shooting and how it affected the court and how the defense almost like having Tyree kill an offense where the whole secondary has to shift toward him and it opens up all this other stuff. That would be part of the Curry case. Also, he was an amazing teammate, and Kobe was up and down on that stuff. I think even the biggest Kobe fans would admit that. He had some rocky years there.

Yeah.

To say the least. Rocky years. I think that's fair. Yeah. He had his coach writing an entire book about what a pain in the ass he was. These are things that happen.

But if those are the 13, and then, to me, we get to the Dr. J, Moses, Durant, Yannis, Isaac, Thomas, Eric.

I have the 15. Okay. And then we move into this Oscar, KD, Kavalechek, Yannis, Dirk, Elgin, Julius, Pettit, Garnett, Malone, Barkley. Right. Sga now has a chance to sniff that.

So that's where I was trying to get to. Who is the best player that with a title, you would have SGA ahead of? So I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, with a title, do I have SGA ahead of John Stockton? Yes. With a title, do I have SGA ahead of David Robinson?

Well, you're talking like the Jason Kidd, Nash. It's a couple of those. People that just never won. Chris Paul, John Stockton. The other question you have to ask is, all right, let's say SGA's career ends this year. I did this exercise in my book. Would you rather have the eight SGA years? You get all of them. You could start a franchise with that, or you could have the 20 years of Chris Paul. What gives you a better chance to win the title?

Chris Paul, but I'm not quite Rosillo when it comes to Chris Paul, but I'm a big Chris Paul fan.

But I'm saying your goal is to win the title, and you could have the eight years SGA just had or Chris Paul's entire career, and that's your only goal. What's the answer? I think there's a real case for SGA. It's like at the peak SGA, if I could put a good team around him, I can win a title.

Here's the thing. That's the part that I'm not sure about in this regard. You do this all the time. I forget who you were just talking about it with. If you do their career 100 times, this was like a one percentile outcome. They got stone unlucky.

Well, LeBron is a good example of that. Who was the team that if the lottery that year, what was it? Memphis. With Jerry West. If he goes to Memphis with Jerry West, with the guys they had already. Yeah.

Pal Gasol.

Is he still there? Did they win nine titles?

But so my question is this, with SGA, is this OKC operation a 98th percentile outcome for him.

Yeah, but okay, this is a good exercise because you could say that about Duncan, went to the best possible San Antonio team. The one year they sucked where Robinson's there in a good infrastructure. You could say about Bird. Bird goes to a team with a bunch of Hall of Famers and a great GM, and then they make better trades. Definitely say it about Magic. Can't say it about Jordan.

Can't say it about Jordan. Can't say it about Brian.

Can't say it about LeBron.

Can't say it about Kareem in Milwaukee.

You can say it about Russell because he He goes to a team with Coosy and a whole bunch of other people right on our back.

You can say it about Kobe because Shaq's there, and so he gets the formative stuff.

Kobe had one of the best situations of any of them. He goes to a team that has the dominant center that than Hakema that decade.

This is one for your guy. You cannot say it about Steph. That franchise was a, You wrote a whole thing about what a disaster the Warriors were pre Steph.

The only thing for him that it actually might have been a good franchise is all the issues he had with his feet and ankles and whether he was with... Let's say he goes to the Timberwolves with David Kahn running Timberwolves and a shitty owner, and it's like, Oh, man, Steph's career is over now. They wouldn't have come up with one thing to save his anything. I do think the Warriors get credit for that or wherever being in California.

I hadn't thought about that, but that's a really good point.

In the '60s, his career is over in four years.

In the '60s, bro. In the '90s.

He's done. We're in Converse, he's done. We don't even know who he is.

Yeah. I think that we don't even have to go back that far. I think most... So that is For SGA, was this the ideal situation, or am I underselling him by saying that?

You're underselling one thing. He lights out at the end of these games to the that he's fucking Michael Myers. It's like, oh, it's a three-point game with four minutes left. You know it's going to happen. And he's got so much confidence. I also think he's been so good that now I find myself comparing other players to things he does. He's reached that last level. I was watching Dylan Harper the other day. Dylan Harper's footwork is so good for however old he is, 19 or 20.

But now you're comparing him to SGA.

And I'm like, Oh, his footwork is like Shay. I would have said Kobe three years ago, and now Shay is the default footwork guy. I think the one thing that he doesn't have that I don't know how to explain this or assess it is there's a charisma piece that's not totally there that Kobe always had, that MJ always had. And SGA, there's a small piece missing with how the fans resonate with him when they're at the game. And I don't know, you can't fix that.

Right. And there is in that same bucket is every legendary scoring guard, except for I Iverson has been above the rim, and he's not.

That's a good point.

And he's tall enough, obviously. Iverson literally wasn't tall enough. And the other guys who are, I guess Steph is a scoring guard, but Steph is a different style of player. All those other guys had a... It's why people have so long tried to force this Anthony Edwards face of the League thing. All that means is this guy fucking dunks on people and we like it. It's just that that is a fun piece of it. I don't know what you have on the docket. I want to make sure at some point- Can we take a break?

Yeah. That was a good segment. I thought we did a good first segment. Take a break, come back. You know what?

I'd give it a B plus, Bill.

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I think they're going to win this week, which will make them seven and seven. I have a whole... I don't know whether to give you the floor first or give... Actually, let me go. You play off me on this one. Sure. I'll try to get this to an A minus. What really happened to the Chiefs? My top 10 favorite excuses I've heard from Chiefs fans, in no particular It's in your order. Okay. Kelsey got old.

I mean, that objectively did happen.

That does not explain this. That objectively true. All right, so we're one for one with a good excuse.

I don't consider that an excuse. That It happened, but that doesn't explain this. So yes, he got old. That shouldn't have caused this. Go ahead.

Too much physical wear and tear on Mahomes because of his O-line and the fact that he's scrambling so much, and that's why he can no longer connect really on any deep balls at all.

I don't buy that. That feels like an excuse. Okay.

Mahomes can't connect on deep balls anymore. They're too easy to stop offensively. That's part of the problem. You don't have to worry about the deep.

That is a legitimate, fair criticism this year in particular.

And last year.

Right. I was going to say, I know the numbers were bad last year. I think last year, there was more of an explanation for it of people, the surrounding, supporting cast preventing it. This year, the offensive line up until this past week has been healthy and good. You have the right receivers out there. No, that's a fair... That is a fair check against him this season, I think.

This is a good one. I actually went on Chief's Reddit to see if I could find any Chief's excuses. I saw this one. From 2018 to 2024, they played 21 playoff games. Almost more than an entire season. They averaged 20 games a for seven years. One of the guys on this Chief's Reddit thread said, They need a break. They need a chance to refuel and reset. It was the thing that was written.

Listen, so here's the thing. There is a reason that only one team ever had a run like this of seasons this long that went on longer, and it only went on one season longer, the Patriots from 11 to 18. So I do think that that is definitionally true. Listen, there is also a reason that no team, only one team ever has been to four straight Super Bowl. I think it's maybe less the full seven years and more the last three years and the chase of the three-peat and the stomach punch of the that ended that I think really has had a knock-on effect this season. I do believe that. Go ahead.

I actually believe in that theory because I think that was... I watched it happen with the Warriors last decade where they're going to the five finals in a row, and I just felt like they were running on fumes. I watched it happen with my Patriots. Especially even the '03, '04, when they had the streak, and then '05, it was a lot of the same guys.

You get clocked by... So do you want to keep going through it, or can I now throw some stuff?

No, I have a couple more. Okay, go ahead. Just quickly.

And then I want to revisit it.

Salary cap, just super hard once Mahome becomes an expensive franchise guy.

That's an excuse. Everybody's got an expensive quarterback. That's good. Stop it.

Yeah, and plus the league now, I don't even know what the salary cap is. You just move money forward. It's like a Potsy scheme. Taylor Swift.

That's not it. Stop it. That's not it. Cardi B has been great for your Patriots.

Karma.

For what?

Just because some of the guys you've signed over the years, maybe the karma. I don't know.

I saw that one. Can I tell you something? That is Rich coming from a Pats fan. I don't want to hear about- We had a murdering tight-end. I don't want to hear about karma on that.

Arrogance. They green-lit a documentary, and the run wasn't even over yet. They did this giant documentary about how they're going to win three in a row.

The documentary was not about how they're going to win three in a row. It was about the Quest. The documentary was great. I don't know.

Last one. Andy Reid got old.

This is It's not been Andy's best season.

I don't think it has been Andy's best season at all.

No, I think. And that fourth and one call was the worst call of... They were going to win that Texans The Texans were done scoring.

All you had to do is just keep punting it to them, and they were going to give you run.

They were going to win. Okay, so now let me address some of the Chiefs darts you have thrown, and then we'll get to Patrick.

This is just rhetoric I'm hearing about the three-time Super Bowl champion, Kansas City Chiefs. Okay.

So first of all, some very odd and scary, for me, at least, similarities. Tom braided, in his seventh year as a starter, stepped on the field in the Super Bowl, trying to win his fourth ring, knowing, If we win this game, I am considered the undisputed goat, and this is considered the greatest team of all time. He lost the game in heartbreaking fashion, and then did not win a playoff game, one game, the next three years. Now, the first year of that was tragic. Week one, he gets his knee blown out. But year seven, going- By your guy. I know, by Bernard Pollard. I know.

We call him Bernard Carmel Pollard. We use his middle name like he's an assassin.

Year seven, going for a ring for trying to be the undisputed greatest team ever. Patrick, in year seven, was playing for Ring 4, trying to become the greatest, undisputed greatest team ever. If they pull off the three-peat, they lose that Super Bowl in a very different fashion. He doesn't get hurt the next year, but it looks like they're going to be out of the tournament in year eight. And that scares me about because you guys had a retool in the late 2000-auts. And so the first seven years, Katie to Patrick The way they played and the numbers are different, but the overall ledger is very similar. And then Tom had a little gap. And then what I think is the greatest run in NFL history, 11 to 18. So this is the question I have for you.

We almost had four retools, if you look at it. I think you're on your second one right now. Yes. Because I think the Tyreek Trade- The Tyreek Trade was a retool that fucking worked great.

Mahomes won MVP the first year, and they won the Super Bowl, then they won Super Bowl again. But now, you're right, this is a second retool. Go ahead. Sorry.

Yeah, we had the retool for the Pats was when they were like, Hey, we have Tom braided. Maybe we should get him some awesome receivers. And they got Walker Moss. That led basically to the second half of that decade. And then when they built around the tight ends, that was the third retool. And then the middle of the 2010s was, I don't know what was going on. We were He was winning.

So here's my... And this is not a rhetorical question. It's not a smart-ass question. Do you consider the Pats one sustained dynasty or two separate dynasties?

I think the braided Belichick together, it has to be considered one giant thing. But I think all the Pats fans think of it as these little different eras. They did it with defense, the first three Super Bulls. That's how they won. He was the third most important piece of it.

You're getting me close to where one of the things I want to get to. But I think you can make the argument you made. It's the same coach, same quarterback. It's one dynasty. The other one is there was '01 to '04, the defense-led Adam Binatari clutch portion of it.

Belichick. That was really like Belichick, but by far running circles around everybody else.

Then there is 2011 to 2018 when you made five Super Bowl's win three, peak Tom, and every single year, you played in the conference championship game. You know what I mean? And that was the apex to me of braided. And so since I view it as two separate things, I get very mad. It's irrational how mad I get when you just flippantly call the Chiefs a mini-dynasty. I'm like, If we're a mini-dynasty, then every everything but your stupid patriots is a mini-dynasty. Then the damn cowboys were a mini-dynasty. If five Super Bowl's in six years with three rings isn't a full-grown adult dynasty, then we're never having another one because I don't think we're going to get 20 years of the same coaching quarterback. You know what?

It's a really good note, and it was a little petty on my side.

Thank you. Wow. Wow. Thank you. Now, can I do the Patrick Mahomes still one day could be the goat argument?

In Dallas or Kansas City?

Why did Rich do that? Why is Rich trading him to the Cowboys? I didn't understand that.

I didn't either. I don't know. Maybe he had inside info.

So Do we agree that... Because you keep talking about Patrick missing the playoff as this stinging GOAT indictment.

It's not great.

Right. But Totally not caring that Tom missed the playoffs in a second after they won the first Super Bowl. With the argument being he wasn't Tom yet, right? Is that driver?

They still went nine and seven in the last game of the year. It's a really weird... If you go back and look at the standings, it was like all these nine and seven three-way ties. And so they played the last game. They won the last game of the year and needed some help and didn't get it.

But it was a weird year. If you're right that the Chiefs are going to beat the Chargers, they have the Titans and the Raiders are still on the schedule. That'll be nine wins no matter whether they beat Denver or not. It could be very similar to that. But the argument that Wilds makes, and I've heard other people make, is, yeah, but that's unfair to use against Tom because he wasn't Tom braided yet, which I acknowledge and I understand, but he gets full credit for the Super Bowl. So we shouldn't, when we're talking about the GOAT debate, say, because Patrick was instantly excellent, that hurts him in the case that he's better than Tom braided one day. That, logically, I don't follow.

Well, can we at least agree on this? Heading into that Philly game in the air was like, if he does this, it's a wrap. And Max and I talked about that last week when we were in the pod about these moments people have sometimes in their career, these little sliding door things where it's like, wow, if this happens, it's undeniable. That's why I was on Twitter today, and somebody just put on the last 45 seconds of game 6 of '98 with Jordan in Utah. Just that whole sequence of the 50 seconds, which every time I'm watching, it's so mesmerizing. You just watch this guy levitate above the game, basically. It's still the greatest thing I've ever seen an athlete do. It's like, All right, what happens if he misses the last shot and they lose in seven? It's just the sliding doors of that, we're talking about him differently. I think that was If Mahomes had beaten that crazy Philly team that was just better than them and more talented than them, if he'd done that, it would have been a wrap.

I still don't think you would have said he was the GOAT yet. I think you would have been like, Well, braided beat him twice in the playoffs.

I would have said we had co-GOATs. I think I don't think there would have been a co-GOAT possibility at that point.

I agree with you that in that moment, if it's Polymarket, going into that game, his chance of being known, ending his career as the GOAT, was it 76 %. And after the game, it dropped to 49. And as we sit here today, it feels like it's around 30.

But the difference between the two guys is that it feels like Mahomes was just better three years ago, just from the eye test. It just feels like he moved better, he threw the ball better, everything. Braided got better in his 30s. He just did. By the time we got to the Seattle Super Bowl, if you go back and you look at those last two drives, who he's playing with- It's unbelievable. It's out of control. But it's just like he couldn't have done that 10 years earlier, I don't think. He definitely got better in the 2010s.

I don't know. The Mahomes thing is so weird because it's hard to really pin down what we're saying. They trade Tyree Kill, and that next year, they're the highest scoring in the league. He has more yards than any quarterback in NFL history and was unbelievable. But it was all dink and dunk stuff. It wasn't deep bombs. It was just wildly efficient. They win the Super Bowl. The next year, everyone's like, This is the worst Chief's team yet. They actually have to go on the road in the playoffs. And in those playoffs, he has one of the greatest individual payoff runs in the history of the sport, going to Buffalo, going to Baltimore, coming back 10 down in the Super Bowl. And it's like, holy shit. Why would we doubt this guy again?

To the point that it was impossible to bet on him the next year. Correct. I'm doing playoff manifesto, and I'm just throwing out rules because I just don't want to bet against my host.

And then last year was super weird because he had these insane fourth quarter, third down clutch numbers. But every other number, it's like it's worse than a Trevor Lawrence or something. His stats last year were not good, but the team won every game. And everybody who watched the Chiefs was like, Yeah, Patrick's the reason why. But the numbers didn't back that up. I also don't know where actually, if he has a season of failure, which this could be, what that does to him moving moving forward in a positive way, I would think.

Well, is there the Rocky IV Log cabin scenario?

Correct.

Where you need to almost go to Russia and rebuild it, and you're just going with Duke and your wife and Paul, and that's it. You're rebuilding it.

Because I think he's wired that way. Because I do have one other chief's question. I just want to finish this Mahomes thought on the goat thing. Mahomes could still It will be the goat argument boils down to this. I think everyone agrees that through eight seasons, which is where Patrick is right now, his career outstrips Tom's through eight years. They both had three rings, but Patrick's been to five Super Bowl's time. It had been to four. Patrick has two MVPs. Tom has one. So up to this point in his career, he's ahead of the pace.

Yeah, I was thinking about when I was growing up, there was like Moreno, LA, people like that. The only one that you could put against his first eight years is Montana, who I don't even think started for two years. Correct.

That's the problem.

But Montana would be the doppelganger for the first eight years, and he's better than Montana because he played the whole time. Exactly. He missed the first year. That's it.

And so the problem for Patrick is this, if I'm being fair. He needs to be way ahead of Brady's pace at 10 years and 12 years because Because the odds that he's going to play 20... After year eight, Tom played 15 more years.

I know.

The part is he can't just be still like, Oh, mile marker 10, slightly ahead, because he's probably not going to run as long of a race. And Tom does have the playoff head-to-head, which sucks for me. It's great for you, but that's a hard one. So I just don't... I don't like when you say he's eliminated. It's out because of this, because it really wounds me. Now, can I ask you one other thing about the Chiefs?

I'm sorry, but he's eliminated.

He's not eliminated.

He never played a meaningless NFL game. Patrick hasn't either. He never started a meaningless NFL game.

Patrick has not yet either.

He has not yet. The best thing you have going for you is that Amazon bought that Christmas night game. There might be some ref greasing. You need Bezos. We need that game.

You need that So you think the Chiefs are going to beat the Chargers this weekend?

I still can't believe the Chargers beat the Eagles. Nobody can. I don't understand what happened in that game. The Chargers can't block They can't really do anything. And I don't understand how they have nine wins.

So I don't know if you have really run this scenario full in your head. But here is, and again, the Chiefs have been bad.

Is this a Chiefs going 10 and 7 making the playoff scenario?

It's very simple.

Okay. So, again, the hard part is they have to go 10 and 7, which means they have to win the charger game and beat Denver in Kansas City, by the way, on Christmas.

But their other two games are Titans Raiders. So if we assume they're going 10 and 7, two other things need to happen. The Philip Rivers cults need to lose at least twice. Fucking done. They play the Seahawks, the Niners, the Jags, and the Texans. They are not going three and one.

They are not. I agree with that. By the way, the Chiefs on Fandor plus 520 to make the playoffs, which I thought was high.

Well, so this is what I'm saying. So if we eliminate the Colts, because the Colts would have to go three and one to make it.

I'm good with eliminating the Colts.

And we are both saying we think the Chargers are going to lose this weekend to the Chiefs. For the Chiefs to make it at 10 and seven, they need the Chargers to lose in week 18 to Denver. They have to lose that game, which Denver is likely- Which Denver may need because they're trying to get the one seed.

I want to see things to your pats.

And then they just need the chargers to lose one of at Dallas or home for Houston.

But don't they have to finish above the chargers?

No. So this is what people have wrong.

Because they split.

The But the first tiebreaker is head to head. The second tiebreaker is divisional record. They would be tied in both of those. The third tiebreaker, if you're in the same division, is not conference record. It's common opponent, and the Chiefs have that. So at 10 and 7 with the Chargers- Oh, wow.

I mean, this seems doable. You've talked me into this. This would be amazing.

Again, if the chargers go 10 and 7 but beat Denver, meaning they lose Kansas City, Texas, Dallas, then they're out.

How are the Chargers going to be in Houston?

Exactly. If the Broncos need the game, how are they going to win in Denver?

So you need the Patriots to beat Buffalo this weekend, too.

I need the I need the Patriots to keep winning because I need Denver to be playing for something.

You need week 18 to matter for both sides.

I need week 18 Denver, and then we're aligned.

That's an interesting case. I'm telling you. Then maybe Mahomes doesn't get traded to Dallas.

Okay.

Then maybe- Can I pick a beef on one of your takes?

It's your show. You do whatever you want.

I saw the pox you're trying to put on Josh Allen.

What do you mean?

I saw what you did. I saw the quip came across my Twitter feed where you did the whole, It is all set up for Josh Allen. It's what it is. He has to win now. He does. This is lined up. If he doesn't win, it's a huge failure. I saw the whole thing you did.

I didn't say it's a huge failure.

It was a good take, but it was ridiculous.

What do you mean?

Bill. Because the bills aren't that good. Their top receiver catch output last week was two. They don't have a receiver who can catch the ball nine nats past the first downline. They're doing everything dink and dunk like you guys a couple of years ago. This is all Allen. If he gets them to the Super Bowl with the offense he has, this would be a miracle.

You're 100% right. It's all Allen. As much as I, to the marrow of my bones, hated and texted mutual friends about your preseason Josh Allen take, it has aged well. I give you credit there.

Age well is an understatement. It's aged amazingly. I put Josh over my homes, and it was the right call. I didn't feel great about it, but that's how I felt.

But here's what my take actually is. It It has nothing to with how good the team is. It is. It's actually a Patriot company. If you're Josh Allen, and you have been a legitimate contender for the last five years, and in those five years, you have been bounced in the playoffs four times by Patrick Mahomes and once by Joe Burrow, and in those years played good, close, but you have won playoff games against Lamar, and you have had a cakewalk of a division. Where every year it's like, we're going to have a home playoff game. Until this year. Right. And you go through that entire stretch and you don't make a Super Bowl. And then you have a season where Patrick, Josh, and and Lamar, I'm sorry, Patrick, Joe, and Lamar are not even in the playoffs.

And by the way, now- And Lamar has been replaced by an alien.

Right. I want to ask you about that. And you know Oh, shit. The division is about to be really hard because Drake May is awesome. You can't have a half decade of a terrible division and not break through, and then a payoff run where you're the only in their prime Hall of Fame quarterback in the whole tournament on your side of the bracket.

Yeah, but what do you do with the 13 seconds game in this argument, though? No, it's- He did everything he should have done in that game, and his coach screwed it up. And the special teams, everything. That's terrible by him.

I totally agree with you. I think you're miss... And it's probably means if somebody miss him- No, I see what you mean.

On paper, if he doesn't make it as the years pass, people will look at it and not remember all the details and all the little things that happen.

It's not even about... I want to make it clear. I'm not saying, Oh, it's a choke job if he doesn't make it or he didn't make it in the past because 13 second game, he was almost You framed it like it was a little bit of a joke job. No. What I'm saying is- It was a negative framing.

There was negative framing you did. It's a missed opportunity.

It is a missed opportunity. He'll never have a playoff again. I imagine that Joe Burrill, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes are not in. And this is likely the worst Drake may will ever be in his career.

Well, and also, listen, I love this Pats team. There's 19 different signs that they might have overachieved that this is peak Pats right now. Then you look at Denver, a team I don't think anyone's afraid of with a quarterback. I don't trust at all. You agree with me. We'll get to January.

The bills got to get to the Super Bowl.

But I don't like teams that don't get explosive plays. Basically, he's the explosive play. Yeah. But their receivers, I think, it's the worst it's ever been. Can we talk about- The Luca maps.

Can I ask you about Lamar real quick?

Or do you not want to? No, ask me.

Can somebody please report on whether or not Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh even talk to each other? This is the weirdest fucking story in the lead. So it is every Every time Lamar has suffered an injury in his career, John Harbaugh has had one timeline about when Lamar is going to play, and Lamar has had a totally different one. We were told three years ago, Oh, it's nothing close It was season ending. It was season ending. Then next year, we were told, We think he's going to be back in a week. It was season ending. This year, he was asked about why they had optimism after the buy. He's like, Well, we're going to have our quarterback back. The game comes after the buy. The quarterback is not back. He then finally does come back, and he has different random injuries that caused him to miss a day of practice, and by the way, plays the worst football of his career while a day of practice each week. The worst football of his career.

Did you see the next Gen stats? His MPH is way down this year. Yeah, he doesn't really-He's down to 12 miles an hour now. No, seriously, I read that today. He's going from 16 to 12.

By the way, passes the eye test. He doesn't run, and he's not as fast.

I think I could run 12.

The 12? That's a five-minute mile.

I think if I had a lot of coffee and maybe some cocaine, I think I could run 12.

But to finish it, this week, Lamar doesn't practice Wednesday. It's listed as no injury. Harbaugh, when he's asked about it, says, Yeah, I think when a player says they need the day, you trust the player. It doesn't cover for him at all.

Meanwhile-so you feel like we're in Kauai territory here a little bit, like 2018 Spurs, Kauai area?

I think it's... Harbaugh, over the last couple... Remember two off seasons ago? He's like, We believe Lamar Jackson. Is going to be not the best quarterback in the league, the greatest quarterback in the history of football. And then the following offseason, so last offseason, he was like, I want to make this clear. Forget running. As a pure passer of the football, Lamar is the greatest passer the league has ever seen. Doth protest too much, buddy. I think you're trying to fix a relationship, and Lamar, I think, is over at all. I think Lamar is checked out.

I would bet. If we were doing the fantasy draft of coaches, we don't think we'll be coaching the same team next year, I think he would be a very high pick, Harbaugh. And by the way, Sean McDermott, if this goes badly, I think he's on the list. I think Seriani is on the list. It's funny. There's a lot of high-profile coaches that who knows?

Would you do this? Who says no to this trade? Because you saw Joe Burrow say, If I keep playing, I need to be happy again.

So when House and I do picks, this I said, No, I'm just saying this made me want to take the Ravens, even though I don't even think they're good. It seemed like Burrow was having an existential crisis at the podium. I don't blame him because they spend the least amount of money of anyone other than maybe the Pats. They never are able to block. I don't know. I wouldn't want to be Joe Burrow in Cincinnati. I'd want to go somewhere else.

I have two- Are you talking Burrow for Lamar just straight up, like NBA style?

Jason K. That would be sick. Stefan Marbury style?

I don't think they would do it within the division. I think they're just going to fire the coach in Baltimore and keep the quarterback. Joe Burrow for Jalen Hertz in one first-round pick.

I'd want more if I was Cincinnati, considering people are wearing Taylor McKee jerseys in Philadelphia right now. That's fair.

But we're at least having the conversation, right? Hey, Jalen is going to be available.

The thing that's something... You can't even make football trades like that, which is, by the way, what the NBA has turned into now, where these stupid aprons have ruined all the fun trades we can make. Joe Burrow, if If Joe Burrow went to the Eagles, then God help us.

He's got these two receivers. God help us. The two other ones that involve draft picks are, because in the NFL, the most first-round you can trade is three, unless you have extra picks one year. You know who has an extra pick?

You mean like the Rams?

The Rams. If Stafford retires, I could see the Rams trading four firsts and three seconds for Joe Burrow.

Well, the Rams got that Falcon pick. That's what I'm saying. For the 26th last year, that's not like the eighth pick in the draft.

So I think the Rams would trade four first for Joe Burrow, and I think the Vikings would trade three first, three seconds, and JJ McCarthy, and Joe Burrow gets to be with college teammate Justin I just know he's not happy. It's year six, and he's saying, If I want to keep playing. That's terrifying.

I got to say, if I was a QB trying to look at my next 10 years, I would want to be warm weather endorse. I think braided was an anomaly. I think Mahomes has been an anomaly, but just in general, especially when you get to these December-January games. Tee Higgins, his head hits... It's just a concussion. You're playing on a concrete parking lot, basically. I have some quick questions before we go because I already kept you for an hour. Why do you think Kevin Wilds hates conflict so much? Do you think it's a childhood thing? What is it with him? Why does he just always want everyone to get along at all times, and then he's on a sports take show?

I, one time in passing, described our job as competitive sports debate, and Wilds had a record scratch, full stop moment, where he's like, Hold on. To be clear, that is not what we do. I'm like, Yes, it is. And he's like, No, it's just a good hang. You and I are trying to do different jobs, bro.

Having fun talking about sports in a polite way. Chatting.

Now, I don't know if you've noticed, a new Wilds has emerged.

Well, Confident Patriots Wild. Yeah, I noticed.

As the Chiefs have fallen and the Patriots have risen, we are really getting Peacock and Kevin Wilds, as he regularly says right before the show starts. Well, because Brewzer Ravens guy, I'm the Chief. I guess I'm going to have to carry the show again today, boys.

Right. As the only...

The only team that's good. All right, what else?

With the Wilds thing. I've known Wilds for almost 20 years. You did this whole thing about media rivals, like your weight class, your generation of sports media rivals. When did you do that?

I did that. That was the first domino in a thing that landed yesterday in the third studio.

Oh, the Pablo thing. Yeah. You talked I basically said that- About other people, your age range?

Yeah, I said, Anyone who does what I do or similar to what I do, that is my age or younger, I consider a rival. You want to vanquish them. I was doing it tongue in cheek, and I will vanquish them. I need to be, in my head, atop that. I've never really felt like I'm competing with you because I grew up reading you or whatever. I feel like you're competing with Colin and with Dan. You know what I mean? You're that generation. I know you and Colin do different things, but I do it like Colin, Levitar, Dan Patrick, to me, were all competing for the same turf. I had that for me.

I disagree. I don't feel like I compete with any of those guys.

Well, you're in a different way.

I don't even think about shit like that. I like how you're thinking of it, though. You're rising up. You're rising up the ranks. These other people are rising up the ranks, and you want to destroy them as you're rising up the ranks.

Correct. And I tried to convince Wilds.

Wilds needs a feud. That's what we're getting.

So there's an obvious one he should have. Can I guess? He has an obvious rival.

So age, range, Age range. Is it Peter Schrager?

No. Similar job as well.

Similar job. So like, ring master for a show. Mike Greenberg. Yes. Greeny. Yes.

I want Wilds to start occasionally just dropping little subtweets about Greeny.

I'm happy to do that on this podcast to try to see if I can get it going. That sounds great.

He will be so mad when he hears this because Wilds is like, I don't want a rival. He thinks I'm insane, the whole thing. And I'm like, Bro, Greeny is standing between you and the Emmy. I always try to stoke it, but he won't- He's in your way. It's like he's standing between you and what you've worked for, but he won't listen to me on it. It's like he's a Jets fan, you're a Pats fan. It all makes sense. You both really care about your hair. It makes sense.

Wait, before we go, this is my last question for you. What do you want for the rest of the 2020s with LeBron James? What would be your wish? What's the perfect way for it to play? One more season. It was your favorite player.

For this year to go, fine. Nothing crazy this year. I disagree with Rich. I think the ceiling is the conference finals, but they would have to get pretty lucky in the seating and all of it. I think people sometimes forget how great Luka is. That's more of a Luka take than a LeBron take. But for this year to not have anything crazy, LeBron to be healthy.

And then where's next year? What's your dream next year?

Cleveland or New York. One year.

It feels like Cleveland's the move.

New York would be pretty sick.

It's not like Cleveland's lights out right now. I mean, they're a mess. They'll be in that We got to shake things up. Maybe he goes in, plays for a minimum.

I guess my other dream would be that if somehow he rallies this year and once again makes an All-MBA team that Bill in Dringer 100 rankings going into this season. There's no way. Is going into the season.

Too many good players this year. No. Well, that's true. That's fair.

The guy was sixth in MVP voting last year. How many times do I have to hear about how Kevin Durant is better than LeBron James when he's never been better than LeBron James one year of his life from the guy that wrote the book of basketball. I got to listen to how LeBron is an injury risk. I'm like, I don't know, Durant is not healthy all that much. How about LeBron's problem with James. Every team Durant goes to is miserable, and I got to listen to how Durant's 12 and LeBron is competing. He's like, I don't know where to put LeBron. 24 felt good to me. Well, he got hurt. Is he better than Alex Caruso?

We do the rankings because he's 41. He's 41. We don't know if he can play 40 games.

Last year, he was awesome.

He was awesome last year. Yeah, we put him up. We put him like 11.

Thanks to the other people. You're right, it was dragging him down.

No, I had him high by the end. I voted for him, second-team All-MBA.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

I call it like it is. I voted for him for four MVPs.

Yeah, that means you cost him three.

What are the three? Were there three?

I've heard you do this.

No, there's only four. 2018 is his only other case. But then you have to just throw out the three weeks when he was throwing the tantrum and trying to get them to make trades. You just have to toss it away.

2018, there is a great argument.

There is. The year he finished- Oh, '11. The first Miami year, there's a retroactive argument. No question.

The The year Nash, he finished second in one of the Nash years.

Oh, yeah. So '06. '06, maybe. Yeah, there's a case. That Kobe should have won that year, though. Kobe should have, too.

But '06, they didn't even make the playoffs.

No, Kobe, that was the year they made the playoffs, and he averaged 35 a game, and it was fucking crazy. He should have won that year.

Oh, you're right. '05, they missed the playoffs. '06. Those would be the years that I- I thought it was interesting.

Lebron, it's not like he's unearthing a shitload of gems on that mind the game show. But him saying... No, I'm just saying I'm not- Him saying that 2018 was my peak is interesting.

Is that what you're about to say?

I thought that was... I actually had a couple of conversations about that with basketball friends. I was like, wow, I would have gone with that second Miami title year when they won the streak, when he was shooting 60% for half the year. He was the best defensive player in the league on top of But he was like, Adam, and he was 18.

That Miami year, he was the best defensive player in basketball. That's the argument there.

Well, on top of his shots, 60%. He was like, queen of the chess board. He was like, peak of his powers that year. It was unbelievable to watch him.

Eighteen, though, he had the... That 2018 playoff run- The playoff run is crazy. Is the greatest playoff run of his career.

The game seven, 48 minutes in Boston, the shit he was doing, the game when he played against Golden State.

You've said it, and I agree with you. I wasn't there, but you've said that that might be the greatest individual game you've ever seen. In person, yes. And so I think that was peak powers, Bron. Also, by the way, on the MVPs thing, did you not think he had a legit argument in 2020?

At the COVID year?

It was the COVID year. Yana Giannis won it. He finished second. The Lakers had the best record in the lead. He was unbelievable. But okay.

I think I voted for Giannis. He was in the mix, though. No question. All right. So the biggest thing we learned is that Mike Greenberg and Kevin Wilds need to feud.

Yeah.

I'm going to do my best. We haven't solved Mahomes. You gave me hope for a Chief's plus 580 play. That's what I was saying.

And if they make it, Bill, I'm telling you, part of the scenario is the Broncos have to beat the Chargers in week 18, which if that happens, the two seed probably will be New England. So if they make it, Chiefs pats round one in Foxborough. You're a nightmare.

Let's roll. Oh, my God. You're a nightmare. It'll be an amazing way to end the dynasty of the Chiefs, the mini-diversity.

Oh, the mini-diversity. Thanks for having me on, Bill.

All right, nick Wright, solid A minus. I thought you did a great job.

You know what? I just give myself a B plus.

Okay, great job. Good to see Hey, as you know, I'm a Patriots fan. Big game this weekend against the Bills. We need it. I'm going to make some predictions using FanDuel's odds that they have, some of the props for this. One of them is, will Drake may use his legs more against better competition. This would be the Mahomes model. I only scramble when I really need it in big games. 20. 5 rush yards, over. 100% over. Will the Bills continue to run effectively against my Patriots? I don't have Milton Williams. James Cooke, 80 plus 5 rushing yards. I'm going under on that. The pats have been good against the run. I know it's down a little bit since Williams left, but I still feel like they're going to move everybody up and make Allen throw the ball. Then last but not least, will Diggs have another revenge game against Buffalo? 47 and a half receiving yards. I would go way over on that because I think this is the game where you unleash Diggs. He plays way more snaps than he's played all year, and you're relying on him on any third down. A dark horse, anytime TD pick, it's always Hunter Henry in a big game.

That's always where Jake May seems to look when he really needs him. I would look at whatever his odds are. Usually, they're in the 200 to 300 range. He can bet all these, our Ringer 107 Picks and so much more on Fandil. Be sure to check all the available Betting markets before the Sunday games.. What? Just one thing. What are we looking at? Fallout is back in Staffel 2. Our favorite heroes fight through the brutal and bizarre inöde, to get to where everything started. New Vegas. Fast, free delivery, brilliant entertainment, and more is available at Prime. For only 8,99 € per month, become a Prime-mitglied. The content can be a commercial, a ongoing membership. More on amazon. De/prime. Achtung. Es folgt eine wichtige Botschaft ihres Mobilfunkanbieters. Ey, Mann. Es gibt Leute, die drücken immer noch zu viel Knete ab. Nein, nicht frisch. Lebara, ist der irgendwie smarter? Ja, smart. 50 Gigabit für nur 8,99. Wenig Knete. Ich zahle nicht mehr für weniger.

Nein, das wäre auch schön blöd.

Lebara, deine Knete, deine Nice. All right, Joe House is here. He's sick. He's tired. It's 5: 00 PM on a Thursday. I said at the top of the pod house, if we don't win our this week, you're getting fired as my conciliary. We're still going to do all the games. I'm just going to go rogue, not even involve you in the final five. This is it. Go ahead. You got to step up. You're like Lamar Jackson. I need to see something. Now, we've just had terrible luck It's getting to the point we're near the playoff. Something needs to change. We may need to bring back our Picks relationship person, Billy Gill.

Oh, that was pretty good. Or we could have Virno on and go four and one again. I forgot about that. All of our Picks, correct, and Berno, incorrect.

I just had nick right on for an hour and 15 minutes, and somehow we didn't talk about Phil Rivers. I haven't talked about Phil Rivers all week. I think this is one of the most unbelievable sports stories of all time. My head went right to, How can we bet against this? Not playing for five years, but he knows the offense. This is just absolutely ridiculous that he could just step onto the field with the speed of an NFL game. He's playing the Seahawks, unfortunately. A team that has either the best or second best defense in the league, depending on how you feel about Texans. I'd have them second. I can't think of a worse situation. Not only does he come back to play them, he's playing the Niners, the Jags, and then he's finishing at Houston. Are they trying to kill him? Why are they doing this?

Yeah, I mean, over and under on number of games that he completes. Do you think that he makes it out of this first game healthy?

Well, to go through those first three, and then you have to end with Houston, a team of freaking pitbulls. What a nightmare. It shows how desperate they are. It also shows you that we really only have about 40 capable quarterbacks alive who can play an NFL game, to the point that a team is like, instead of signing somebody on a practice squad who's going to get violated, maybe Phil Rivers will be better after not playing for five years. I did go back and look up his 2020 and some of my notes from that year, week by week, he He wasn't bad on those Colts teams and even was okay in the playoff game. I never had anything in my notes with the pods was sour anywhere else. It was like, Phil looks washed. It's over. It wasn't like the Matt Ryan situation, but it was five years ago. Your kid was 10 years old, five years ago.

I don't think he ever really lost arm strength. We'll have to check the next gen stats to see how many miles an hour he was throwing five years ago. But the thing that became the real issue was he couldn't move, and I don't think that got any better.

I don't think that got any better, house. My guess is, this is as we go to Ringer 107, we had another classic week. We have the bears. We think it's going to be a tight game. It's a one-score game. They're inside the 20 turnover. They don't cover by half point. Then we had the eagles, which maybe we should have known, but I just think that chargers team is so lousy. Not by a lot of fault of theirs. They've had so many injuries, but I just still can't believe the Eagles didn't finish that game. I watched the whole game, and I still don't really fully understand what happened.

By the time Sunday rolled around, I will say this, I could not figure out why we didn't pick the Rams at the Cardinals. Why didn't we pick the Rams? I laid on the Sunday show 23. 5 points at plus 470. That was one of my favorite bets of the week.

You know what? Maybe for Ringer 107 next year, we're going to have to have more gimmicky bets because we're both pretty good at those. I agree. Versus the straight-ups. Or maybe we just have to make better picks. It's one or the other. The Rivers say, no. So this defense he's going against. Since week seven, starting with the week seven games, how many first-half touch downs do you think Seattle has given up? Seven games.

Not very many.

Four. Two against the Rams.

Yes. Okay. There you go.

My guess is they're going to do the super conservative hand Off, hand off, hand off, play action. Hand off, hand off, hand off, play action. I don't think that's working in Seattle, especially when you look at the track record of these things. But it does make me like the under. I want to throw this to you, though. The Curse of Peyton Manning.

Oh, okay.

I don't know if I'm test driving this for you in the audience. Remember, Peyton Manning gets hurt and the Colts have a terrible season. Yes. They end up getting the number one pick and they get injured luck. Incredible. Peyton Manning, a hero in Indianapolis. Beloved. It's like, Oh, they'll just probably trade out of that pick. Trade down. Get Peyton Manning some weapons. What do they do? Peyton, thanks for everything. Send him packing. He goes to Denver and goes on a huge revenge tour, and they have Andrew Look. Since that happened, they get Look. He ends up getting banged up, retires. Jacobi Brisset, Phil Rivers, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, Garner Minchou, Anthony Richardson drafted top five. Danny Dimes, they finally struck oil. Blows out as Achilles. Now, they've turned back to 45-year-old Philip Rivers. I think it all goes back that Payton Manning decision and the rules of karma. Doing that to your best guy. I think they would- They got to look in the mirror a little bit, I think.

Don't you think they would do that over again to have Andrew luck?

I wouldn't if it was the Pats with braided? Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't have been cool with it. I get it. I understand. It's just, I don't know.

Pretty. All right.

So you made takes on this. How much What's your cold medication you're on right now? Should we just zip through these pics?

Quite a bit. No, I'll get some energy going here. I like a lot of pics this week.

Oh, please do. We're videotaping this, and it's running as a podcast. Well, I was looking Seahawks minus 13 9. 5, but we could take that to Seattle minus 6. 5 with the under of 48. 5 as a parlay. Great. Get us in the minus 120 and just make that at one of our pics. Sure.

Done. Say less. That's easy.

Is that game going to 49 points? Is there a scenario?

No. I mean, it would only be if Seattle ends up with a bunch of short fields and scores. Remember, Seattle a handful of times this season has come out in the first half and dropped like 35 points on the team before the first five drives.

Well, the Colts, Les Garner, Ward had a concussion. They do get bucked her back for the defensive line, but I can't imagine. My guess is the Colts are going to try to really slow this game down 40 seconds of play. I agree. Let's do nothing crazy. Field goals. Let's try to make Seattle make some plays on offense, and it'll just be one of those games that each team has the ball six times or something. All right, so Seattle minus six and a half, under 40 and a half. I only had one maybe game, and it's the Ravens and the bangles. It's Ravens in Cincinnati. Ravens minus two and a half. The Ravens had a five-game winning street, then they went to the Stealers by five. It's a win or go home for them. There's no Tee Higgins, and yet it's 18 degrees in Cincinnati. Joe Burrow has been good in the cold weather. Lamar has not been a huge fan over the years. Then Joe Burrow has the press conference this week that nick Wright and I just talked about, where he seemed like he was having a crisis on the podium about, I don't know why I'm doing this.

It was one of those where clearly he wasn't super happy from a football standpoint. I feel like it's a stay away, but I wanted to talk it out. Did you have some strong thoughts on this?

I would play the Ravens. The way that they lost the last two games to these bangles and then the stealers were both so heavily unlucky for them. I mean, the way the ball bounced with the turnovers against the bangles and the short fields that they gave- They likely play all that stuff. Then to to follow that up with basically a carbon copy against the stealers, turning the ball over and game-deciding plays, both times involving the refs. I mean, The ruffing call on the center turned into four more points for the stealers, and Isiah likely catching the ball, holding it for two steps, but not dancing a pirouette with it and doing the splits means that it's not a catch. Ravens lose.

I had the Ravens marked down as well as a minus two and a half. Maybe we'll use it.

Yeah. The red spot makes sense. The season's over if they don't win.

Just quickly, do any of these games... Did you had any of these games written down? Rams, Saints, Colts, Browns, Giants, Eagles, Jaguars, Texans, Niners, Cowboys. That's it. Any of those on your I did have Rams.

I think- Rams minus six and a half at home against the Lions. I thought it was five and a half, but in either way, it's fine. I think that they are capable of winning by margin. This is just a brutal situation for the Detroit defense. The Brian Branch injury, you can't overstate how meaningful that is. They are on their fourth string and fifth string safeties right now. Terry Arnold has been out for a bit. They don't get pressure anyhow. I think the- Is this going to be on the Sunday show?

Is this a Ram's 30 plus points?

It might be.

Is it going to be one of your picks?

It might be. There's two candidates for that where I'm going to alt-spread. I might do both. We'll see. Ram's is definitely one of them, especially the way They took care of business against the Cardinals.

All right. I'm taking Bill's pats off the board because I think the bills are the pick, and I don't want to pick the bills. We did that once in Ringer 107. I didn't feel good about it. 29 degrees with snow.

That's so fun. Let's just watch it and enjoy it.

Yeah, I just... It's going to be great. No Milton Williams. Buffalo needs it a little more than the Pats, but then the Pats are coming off a buy. No left tackle for the Pats. That makes me nervous. But the Bills have no explosive receivers. It was a pick-em all week. It ended Bills minus one and a half right now. It It feels like the game the Bills should win and will win. When you go back to the 23-20 Sunday night game, the Pats, even though they won, a lot of things went right in that game, and they barely won.

Yeah, it was three turnovers and 11 penalties on the Bills at home. Yeah, we're staying away. This one is just... If I had to bet it, I would just bet on Josh Allen, and that's it.

Dolphins, Stealers in Pittsburgh.

Interesting.

Stealers minus three. Pittsburgh's defense, 27 seventh EPA against the run. Miami has reinvented themselves as this power running team, although we don't know how healthy A-Chan is going to be. It's a Mink of Fitzpatrick revenge game. T. J. Watts probably out. Aaron Rodgers, who looked good last week would have to then do that two weeks in a row. The catch is it's a Monday night game and it's going to be 20 degrees and it's in cold weather. But then the zag on that, because normally it'd be two of cold weather done. The zag would be, Oh, you press the cough button. Wow, you really are sick. The zag would be, yeah, that's why you take the stealers. But that's actually stupid because they don't really rely on 2: 00 anymore. He barely has to do anything. They run, run, run, run. They don't want to ever have them screw anything up. So this is actually the perfect time to take 2: 00. And the line feels a little high to me, I got to be honest. I don't see any difference with these teams. This feels to me it should be tic-tac 1. 5.

Interesting.

I don't mind the Dolphins case. I think they've been pretty good the last couple of weeks.

I agree. And to your point, I sat down after we took the abysmal jets and tried to do the math on what It was just a bad read. Tua threw the ball 20 or 21 times for 125 yards, and the Dolphins ran the ball 41 times for 200 yards or whatever. And HN just had his way. I think that's not a bad blueprint for going up against the Steelers team.

Look, he did it in the Jets game. Sal and I talked about it. He had a screen pass from his own goal line that almost got picked off. It was just awful. Classic. I know he's going to do that. He's going against the Stewards team that has had a horseshoe in its ass for most of the year. Maybe it's one of those things where it's like, I can't believe we bet on two in 20 degree weather. What are we doing? But it's literally the only reason I can think of not to bet the Dolphins in this game, other than you continually pressing the Koff button and not knowing where we are at this point. It's very good. But I just feel like this is an either team could win game and we're getting a point and a half. I think the Dolphins are just better Which surprises me to say because I have all those unders that I had from before the season. I think half of them are probably going to lose at this point.

I want to do some research. I understand directionally what you're doing, and it's correct because the Dolphins were getting three and a half and it moved down to three. And at this stage of the week, for that to happen, that means it's sharp money. The public isn't betting on the Dolphins and the Steelers on Monday night football yet. So that, to me, means that we're thinking correctly about the handicap for this one. I just wonder, there are other games out there.

Well, you left out the part that we've lost on the Steelers one way or the I think seven times this year. Let's go back for more. We're four games under 500. Let's try to solve them. I have two more games. This is my second favorite game of the week, Packers, Broncos, Packers in Denver. Denver, I have them as six wins, zero losses, and seven either or games. Nobody has legitimately beaten them this year. If they're a professional wrestler, it'll be a lot of like, ref count outs, somebody interfered with the match, but they haven't actually been pinned. And I really think this is the week. To me, if you're going to go over or under regression for the Pats, regression on the Broncos, the over and under is one. And I think the bet probably is to say over on both, but I just think the packers are better. I don't think they care where they play. And I think they might have the best all-around team in the league right now. So they could They could do the thing where they score 14 points and we're furious at ourselves. I don't think so. I don't see it.

I think they're good. I just think they go in there and roll.

It's schematically a matchup that really favors the packers and really disfavors the Broncos. So the Broncos play single high safety, and they also play man coverage. Jordan Love has been extraordinary against those two defenses. And on the other side, packers love to play zone, and Bo Nicks gets lost in zone. I mean, we just watched Jalen Hertz, Yeah, good God, get lost in zone. I think it's similar. The only thing that gives me pause is each time the Broncos have played a team that is a step up in class. They've really been impressive. They beat Kansas City at home. They went to Houston and won. Now, they knocked out C. J. Stroud. They went Philly and won. The Dallas win was pretty legit. That's the only concern, but I'm with you. I'm prepared to play the packers here.

Those games you listed that were their best wins. Kc, team with a losing record. Philly, a team that's in a freefall. Houston, Stroud got hurt. They should have been Indianapolis during a time when Indianapolis was playing well.

Yeah.

I mean, you can do this game with the Patriots, too. To me, this is like a weight class game. I think the packers are heavyweights, and I think the Broncos are light heavyweights. It's literally- By the way, I think the Patriots might be light heavyweights, too, just for the record.

Well, I totally agree with you, which is why I did that exercise of going through their schedule. This is an uptick in class. How have they done when the class is up? But it's a different version. This packer team showing us, and I have no problem at all with them on the road.

Also, what the bears were trying to do them last week and did to some degree as they held Parsons for three straight hours, which I'm sure 50 of those clips got sent to the NFL League office. I actually think that should have been a slightly different game because the bears couldn't really throw the ball at all, and they were running, running, running. Then Every time they passed, it felt like Parsons was just getting mauled. All right, last game, Chiefs Chargers. Nick and I talked about this earlier. I already tipped our hand on this. 17 degrees. Chargers offensive line on the road. It's not even good at home. This is a classic Lombardi bad lines, don't travel game. Chargers have been under 49 points, their total games, in every game since week seven. The Chiefs have six wins this year by 13, 15, 13, 31, 21, and 3. Only one of those games went over 48. You could either do the parlay of Chiefs money under 48 and a half, which I think is a great bet, and I'm going to probably do. In real life, or you just smash the Chiefs at five and a half and think that they're going to get a lead.

The chargers aren't going to be able to block. The Chiefs need the game. Kc, it's going to be even It's hard to get a backdoor cover if you can't block, et cetera, et cetera. Just ride the Chiefs minus five and a half, which I think if we want to use that parlay option, we only have one in Ringer 107 on Seattle in the under to get that game in there, then it's just Chiefs, fuck it, Chiefs minus five and a half.

I much, much, much prefer that approach to this. Let's use the parlay on Seattle because I think the Chiefs are... This is a smash spot. This is another one where I'm going to play alt spreads. It's just a brutal spot for the chargers. Coming off an overtime Monday night game that was physical the whole time. You mentioned that the pressure rate that the Eagles were able to mount was nearly 70 They had seven sacs.

No, Jim. And Herbert has one hand.

And it's going to be freezing. As it is, this Chargers team has not been good on the road. They got since the offensive line injuries.

Also, a California team in cold weather is another fun one. Right.

Yeah. Smoked by Jacksonville. I don't think they covered against Tennessee. Barely won against Miami, lost to the Giants. Just not a good team on the road.

Is there a game we didn't mention that you think we should take? Because I'm ready to lock and ring our 107 right now.

No, the only other one that I'm inclined to dabble is probably Carolina.

I did look at that one.

For them, there's just Carolina and Baltimore are both in the same boat, which is it's revenge games. They're both on the road. For both of those teams, their playoff fortunes depend on them winning outright. So then, unsurprisingly, the line is the same in both games, basically.

I did take a test drive of Browns plus seven and a half in Chicago in a 10-degree game, and I couldn't get there. No, I did. I did stare at it for a split second.

That's too many points, but I don't want to bet it.

I also thought, I don't want to bet the Jets again after what happened last week.

Never again. That's it for the season.

But the Jaguars being favored by 13 and a half over anyone in the league gave me pause.

Do you know the last time they were favored by 11 points or more? Do you know this? I ran across this nugget in the research.

1998?

I mean, you're not that far off. It was 2007. The last time they were favored by 11 points or more.

Wow, I didn't even know their quarterback was. Jackson, Of course. There was a Vikings. Just that line's too high, too. There were a couple of lines where I'm like, wow, that's too high. Cowboys minus six and a half against the Vikings when we don't know if CeeD is playing. The Vikings are pretty much back defensively now and look good last week.

Three straight weeks of good defense.

I thought that line would go down and it didn't. I'll put it this way. I would never want to take Dallas minus six and a half, so I looked at that one as well. Lust auf besonders fine Weihnachten? Erlebe einzigartigen genuss with Reve Feine Welt. Diese Woche z. B. Reve Feine Welt Schweizer Käse Trüffel Traum, mild würzig, je 150 Gramm Packung, nur 3,49 Euro. Oder Reve Feine Welt italienischer Prosciutto Crudo, roher Schinken, mit Meersalz behandelt, mindestens 18 Monate gereift, je 100 Gramm Packung, nur 4,29 Euro. Festlich sparen mit Genuss. Reve, dein Markt. Dein altes Sofa zerfällt All right. Bring a 107 brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where we are not going to take either side of the Bill's Patriots game. I can't handle it emotionally. We're not going to take any game with House's commanders because he can't handle it emotionally.

No, no.

But We are going to take Seattle in a parlay minus six and a half under 48 and a half against 45-year-old Phil Rivers. Do I feel bad that it's an old guy that we're rooting against when we're two old guys and has to barely get through the podcast right now? No, I don't.

What are you talking about? You did make it.

There's one. Dolphins plus three against the Steelers. We are taking to a in cold weather in the ultimate zag. People said they never thought Simmons would ever do it, take two in cold weather, and especially with house as his conciliarium. But we said, Fuck it, we did it.

On Monday night, we're going to be so mad. The text to each other Monday night. This might be how you're going to fire me. It could be that. It'll be Monday night. You didn't stop me? Yes. We'll need it to go three and two, and you'll be like, You son of a bitch.

I like how we did it, though. We couldn't come up with a single reason to take the Stealers other than... The Stealers' favorite is always a disaster? Yeah. All right, so that's two. Packers minus two and a half against the Broncos. We felt like this was a heavyweight against light heavyweight. Yes. Chiefs, Chargers. Thought about a parlay here, but we're just going to... Chargers don't 100% need the game. Chiefs desperately need the game. Chiefs offensive line. They need it, but the Chiefs are like their season's over if they lose. But Thirteen degrees. Chargers can't block. Don't overthink it. Then last but not least, we begrudgingly landed on Ravens minus two and a half in Cincinnati, based on a lot of different reasons, including winner go home for Baltimore, bangle season over, no Tee Higgins, 18 Degrees, and since he would be the reason not to like this with Lamar. But maybe this is a smash game or it's Derek Henry being Derek Henry again.

Could happen.

I would just be surprised if the Bengals won this. Yeah. Hendrikson went on IRR this week. No Higgins.

They got their win. They got their win. The win that made everybody excited, reminded everybody that Joe Burrow was Joe Burrow. That was on Thanksgiving. That was their Super Bowl, and they almost validated it with a great effort against the Bills in Buffalo. But now, tough spot, division rival. They always split the Ravens and the bangles. So this is the Raven's turn.

That was the Ringer 107 presented by Fandil's Sportsbook. All lines subject to change. Speaking of Fandil's Sportsbook, I mentioned this to nick earlier house. The Oklahoma City odds dropping for the 74 wins.

Oh, my God.

Remember it was Plus 6: 70, we were texting about it. What do you think it is now?

Under 4: 00 to 1: 00.

Plus 2: 35.

Oh, my God. That's horrendous.

Plus 2: 35, You know why that is, though?

It's because it doesn't matter if guys get hurt.

We talked about if Shay just was out for the season tomorrow, would they still win 62 games? The answer might be yes.

I would definitely say yes.

I'm going to knock on wood. I hope that doesn't happen.

No, we don't want that to happen. We're not going to knock on wood, too.

There was a couple of streak things, too, including 29 plus games beating Golden State's 28. That's plus 450.

Oh, that's terrible.

Not great odds.

You got to give me a 10 to 1 on that, at least. It's only happened one effing time.

Them to beat the Lakers, 33, 12 to 1.

Okay, now you're talking. Now You're talking.

What is it now? It's 17.

Something like that.

Yeah, because their NBA Cup, they're minus 250 now for the cup. They were minus 135 for a couple of days, and it was the dumbest thing in the air. Nobody's beating them. Nobody's beating them in the planet.

Do these games count for the streak? The Cup games?

Good question, house.

I want to check with the sportsbook.

I thought the final game didn't count.

Right.

But it should. Yeah, that's an interesting conundrum. I like that. Anything else you're noticing in the NBA before we go? What have you guys been talking about in the Ringer Gamma show?

That Lakers performance. There's two performances where I wanted more out of Miami against Orlando and the Lakers against the Spurs. Now, glass half full and give Stefan Castle this huge tip of the hat that he deserves. He took the game over. But at Lakers, you have no chance if you're not going to play defense. They just don't get out there. They don't rotate. They should be athletic enough, but they're not.

The game was awful. I think there's just a certain type of team that's going to give them a lot of problems all season, those young athletic teams. Nick and I talked about that.

Have you been in the tree? Go ahead.

Did you, at any point during that game, think to yourself how the Wizards didn't take Castle? Even though most of the people at the Ringer thought he was the best bet to be the best part in that draft?

I honestly don't really think it was a big mistake taking Sahr because he is such a one-of-one in terms of the size and the ability to make an impact on both ends. One-of-one. I like this. Yeah. I think he might ultimately be- Alex Sahr is a one-of-one. He might ultimately be a very good defender. You can see how well he moves out on the perimeter.

I like Sartu. I think it's defensible.

Yeah, defensible. That's right.

With that said, I was pretty sure Castle was going to be the best guy in that draft.

I mean, what would he be doing on Washington? How would that help him?

He'd be one of your 19 guards. Right.

How would he get better? I want to know if you've been in the Trade Machine for Tyler Hero yet.

You started that. For what? For you?

No, for anybody. He came back, and Miami has looked bad. There's something, their offense has glitched.

They don't play- The call is always to Sacramento. That's my first call from the GM. He thinks it's Vivek there. Hey, you ever seen Tyler Hero play?

We've got a white guy that's a shooter.

There was a story. I never know what to believe with these stories that end up on Hoopsight, all these other places. But there was some bonus to the Bulls buzz somewhere. I don't know whether it was made up or what, but it was just so funny that Chicago and Sacramento making another trade. It's like the two teams that just don't know what to do. It's like these two people that keep hooking up when they know they're never going to date.

Wait a minute. What do you mean, wait a minute? I remember those days.

You do? A million years ago?

It was a long time ago, but I remember those days.

Would you try to trade Sabona? Tradeforce a bonus?

That's an awesome question. As you were describing it, I think he could really help a couple of teams. Honestly, no joke. I think he could help Miami.

Playing him with Bam?

Yeah. Yeah. Because Bam likes to get the ball at the free throw line. They run that offense with him at the top.

I thought- They get high, low. The most interesting one to me would be a Clipper's move. With Zubats in it. Zubats, Harden, you do that whole thing, and Sabonis becomes basically the Harden replacement as a focal point of the offense. That's just like, neither of us are going anywhere. What What do you think? One of those trades. The wild card team for Sabonis would be Golden State, which would not help their defense. Oh, wow. But it would be so interesting to watch him in a system like that. I do feel like there's a team for him that could unlock a lot of the stuff that I like when I watch him.

What about the Raptors? The thing that they've heard, as usual, a bunch of guys missing games.

I noticed It's the fans have gotten quiet.

Well, they're injured. I mean, R. J.

Barrett and quickly-Fans were loud. Fans were loud. It was a loud noises from Canada, and it's now eerily silent.

Well, because the guys are hurt. What do you want?

They still have Ingram. They still have Scottie Barnes.

I mean, you know.

It's not like they were in a bus crash. They missed a couple of guys. Everybody has injuries.

Those guys are pretty good.

I'll say this. I have a couple Even though I just did a long NBA podcast with Mahoney. The one thing I thought about watching that Tuesday, Raptors' next game, when they had their five, That's the safest bet in the East, right?

Yes.

I don't know if they're going to have their five in April or May. But if my life depended on it, so the Fandle agrees because they're plus 270. I don't know what's going on with Cavs. But I don't think they could beat any of the top three teams, which Mahoney and I discussed from the West. But I do think they're clearly the class of the East now because of whatever the hell happened in the Cavaliers.

Yeah. Cavs have a deal or two yet to make. They have to do something.

My team's down to 701 for the East.

This is part of the thesis for why did we all go over for Boston or at least two of the three of us went over? We did.

We had the right instincts with Boston and Indiana about the infrastructure and the guys who've been there, but Indiana just got immediately hurt 17 ways.

Well, Matherer got hurt immediately, and I was there.

That's just a loss bet. Yeah. That's just a loss bet. Mcconnell got hurt right before the season. Yeah, right. It'll be tough and got hurt.

That's a losing ticket. You say goodbye.

Yeah, that was too bad. Yeah. It feels starting to feel a little nixie coming out of the east. One of my questions, and this has been a big topic all does anybody say, Fuck it, and try to chase when OKC is looming at the end with a giant pickax. The other team I would have is Orlando. This cup game of Nix, Orlando, I I actually think that would be what I would bet on to be the East Finals. I like this. If you have any two matchups, I think that's the pick.

Orlando's played the Knicks tough, too. They went into Maths and Square Garden and beat their ass. They just out-toughed them. They Bane's pretty good in terms of- Bane has quieted the skeptics of all those picks that they gave up. He delivered an attitude. And then Orlando didn't know that they- Little Dylan Brooks.

He gave a little Dylan Brooks edge. Yeah. The problem is this team can't play 10 games in a row without somebody getting hurt. It's outrageous. Dating back to last year.

It's outrageous.

Did you hear Mahone and I talked about this because it was Zack's idea about just a hypothetical Palo for Giannis Trade, who would say no faster, was I thought, a really fun topic.

Who else does Milwaukee get in addition to Palo?

That's it. It's a one for one.

I don't know.

Do you want the brothers? I'll throw in the brothers.

It's not terrible.

It's actually... Do you want Thanasis and Alex? Three for one?

That's a package deal. There'd be no doubt.

I thought it was a fun hypothesis. It's interesting. I don't hate The one team at all, the ones with the assets, the one team that could chase, if they really wanted to, is Atlanta. They have a whole bunch of stuff they could do. Can we talk about Derrick Queen really quickly before we go? I'd love to. He's a DMV guy. You've known him since forever.

Baltimore high school area, and then played the University of Maryland.

Our boy Junior, who's one of the hottest AU coaches in the country. What's his high school now?

No, he coaches high school. He coaches Paul VI, which is nationally ranked every single year.

But But I thought he also did a club team, too, though, doesn't he?

No, he doesn't really do that.

Oh, he doesn't do that? All right, my bad, Junior.

Paul VI is a full-time job.

Right. So he, King, he's known forever.

He has. He was on that team with Cooper Flag.

He was a voice crying in the wilderness during the Queen Trade like, Hey, by the way, Queen's really good. I know they shouldn't have put protections on that pick, or they should have put protections on that pick. But yeah, have you seen Queen, though?

Of course, yes. Rooting for that kid. The only thing that was a question mark, there was a sentiment that he needed to grow up a tiny bit. But he's showing a level of professionalism in a situation where you really have to work hard.

Yeah, they have so many guys that I like. I think Murphy's a pro, too. They're pros in that team. We'll see what happens.

What are they going I think it's got to move that team.

Before we go, we got to talk about Bob Chesney going to UCLA.

Your guy.

Well, I wasn't ever going to say anything, but he talked about it in a radio show or something he did. He did? What did he say? About how I started the whole process. Wow. Gave you credit. Now I have to tell the story. He did. They fired whoever the coach was mid-September. My friend Casey, who's one of the people, the UCLA boosters in charge of trying to figure out who the next coach should be. He asked me, he's like, Any idea what we should do? Sent me some names, and I was like, How do you not get the James Madison coach? I started bombarding him with stuff from when he coached our beloved Holy Cross and how he completely transformed college football for us.

Yes.

As I'm doing, this is mid-September. As I'm doing that, James Madison just keeps winning and winning and winning.

True story.

Then I looked like a prophet. Maybe they would have found him out anyway. But as they're looking at this, James Madison is going up, and at some point, it got serious. But yeah.

Well, James Madison is now in the playoff.

James Madison is now a 12 seed in the playoff. Our guy Bob Chesney, who took Holy Cross to the semifinals.

He did that. Yeah, for sure. To Sean Foster. That's who UCLA fired. My single favorite thing so far from Chesney, in addition to him giving you credit, that's amazing, is he's already saying, Hey, USC, you're a little comfortable. I know that you think that you own college football in this town. Just get ready. I love that.

I'm really excited because obviously, I don't have a college football team other than Holy Cross, who punted on college football, except for when we had Bob Chesney So I feel like legally, I'm allowed to really adopt UCLA now, and I'm all in.

It's where you live, and it's your guy.

I've wanted an LA team. We test drove when we got the king season tickets. My kids got into that, but I couldn't not root for a Boston team. That got weird. I feel like this is pretty clean.

I agree. Right? We never... I root for Maryland because I grew up- You were for Maryland basketball, but- Yeah, the football- Three miles from the campus. And the football has been good I did four or five times over the last four years.

No, man. I might just throw myself into this UCLA, I think, though. Go for it. I really want this to work.

Who's going to stop you?

Yeah, he's giving me partial credit. But anyway, Bob Chesney, UCLA. Congrats. We'll see how it goes because they've tried to hire all these different coaches, and they've done the Chip Kelly route. They did the, Oh, here's an alumni who used to play for us. Now, it's Hey, maybe we should just get an awesome coach who wins all the games that he coaches.

An innovative coach. Just look at a couple of times, it's some of the offense, the schemes that he puts in place.

Yeah, and builds a culture around players. Anyway, I'm all in. Love it. Ucla, Welcome me aboard. Pass you one in. Are you going to root for him, too? Maybe.

We have to talk to Louis. It doesn't Louis root for you?

Louis is all in. I was telling Louis in mid-September that I was like, Hey, you got to watch what's happening James Madison because that might be your next coach.

Yeah. I bet he sent you a bunch of eggplant emojis.

Honestly, Louis is so far up Will Arnett's ass this whole holiday season. Just doing PR for Arnett and then Poler, and He's got Jimmy. I'm like a blip on his windshield. I'm like a bug that hits his windshield sometimes.

In view of what you just gave him, how much you improved his life. I mean, it's immeasurable when you have a great football team you root for.

He's like, I think he's 48, so he's the right age. Oh, yeah. It's like when the Pats just got Vrabel. He's like the right age, right time, perfect fit. I'm really excited. For the USLA fans, This is not a joke. Chesney changed. We had given up on football. We didn't care at all and never thought Holy Cross was going to care. He just went in and single-handedly transformed it. It was unbelievable. We went to the... That sent me Who do we play? South Dakota State or somebody. All the guys in that team were 300 pound offensive linemen. It was like a fucking pro team.

We competed for a half. We competed.

Yeah, we were hanging around. Anyway, congratulations, Coach.

Amazing. Great job. Coach.

House, I hope you feel better. Thank you, B. S. I hope you don't get fired if our pics suck.

You're the boss. Whatever you want to do, I'll be fine.

Good to see you as always. Good to see you.

See you.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Don't forget to listen to the rewatchables with Shampoo. High Fidelity coming on Monday. You have four days to watch that. Don't forget about the new Max & Rich podcast we launched, Game Over. They will have another one coming on Friday. I'm really happy we launched that one. I'm glad it's doing well as well. And don't forget about Music Box. Whizz-kid, it is up. Go check it out. That's it. Go, Patriots, please. For the love of God. Let's beat the bills. Must be 21 plus in President Select States for a Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 Gamble or visit rg-help. Com. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg. Org/chat-in-connectget or mdgamblinghelp. Org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp-line-ma. Org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8 Hope, N-Y or text Hope, N-Y in New York.