Transcript of Maye Vs. Stafford, Week 18 Picks & the 21 Best 21st Century Sports Movies With Peter Schrager, Joe House, and Sean Fennessey

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We are also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a rewatchables on Monday. It was my 50 most rewatchable movies of the 21st century. It was my list. There were a lot of caveats to it, including they were just movies I had seen the most times because of family, wife, because I liked having just a movie on in the background as I was working, whatever it was, it was my most rewatchable movies. Needless to say, people had some opinions on it, but I loved it. Anyway, you can check that out on the rewatchables on Spotify, on YouTube, wherever you get your pods. We have another episode coming. I think we have two next week. Stay tuned for two. I think we're going to do a mailbag episode on Monday and then a movie episode on Wednesday. So be ready for that. Coming up on this podcast, we're going to do Week 18 Picks, Joe House, Peter Schrager. We're going to talk about the MVP and a whole bunch of NFL stuff heading into the long weekend because I think most people have Friday off.

And then special segment just recorded today with Sean Fentacy, my 21 best sports movies of the 21st century. This was not me personally. These are the movies I genuinely feel like are the 21 best movies, sports movies of the 21st century. As you know, I love sports movies, care about them, have writing about them my entire career back when I used to write and have a lot of thoughts. Sean helped me basically react off the top 21 and then came up with a key save for the list. So stay tuned for that. Anyway, this is a very fun podcast. Hope you had a great New Year's Eve. I did as well. I don't know if my wife has showered yet. She's in rough shape. Shout out to her for surviving last night. Anyway, Pearl Jam is coming up in a second. We're going to take a break, and then Peter Schrager and Joe has. The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fanduel. Fanduel has got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live. They have your way. Go check out your way. You can build the bet that fits your play, your way.

Plus, don't miss out on the NFL Playoffs, one of my favorite times of the year, all month long. Download the Fanduel app or head to fanduel. Com/bs to get started. Get ready for the play. Let's go. Must be 21 plus, President Select States, 18 plus in DC, Kentucky, and Wyoming. Get in a game promo, call 1-100 Gamble, or visit rg-help. Com. Call 888-789-777, or visit ccpg. Org/chat in Connecticut. All right, we're recording late New Year's Day afternoon. There's probably some college football blowout happening right now. We apologize. We can't comment on that. Joe House is here as always trying to figure out our week 18 pick, some other stuff. Peter Schrager demanded to join us. He's in Tampa Bay in a hotel room. You wanted to be on. Explain why. Why did you have the eye of the Tiger?

We had such a good experience two weeks ago, but the pang in my stomach and in my heart was no Joe House. I said it there when we were doing the pod after Ram Seahawks, no Joe House. Well, we go on. We have a great pod. Maybe my favorite pod with you is ever done Just about every text I got was, it was good, but no Joe House. This week with MVP voting being done midnight on Sunday and Coach of the Year voting and a full slate and me being in lovely for the Panthers Bucaneers. I'll be the sideline reporter. I begged you, can I get more air time? And you were so kind to open up the door just a slipper. And here we are.

Always available. So you don't have an MVP vote?

I recused myself.

You did. Why did you do that?

Did you still have one for NBA?

Yeah, I love having one. Zack got rid of his, and I call him a wuss about it every year. I love the responsibility. It's great.

It became too annoying. I had a Hall of I was a Hall of Fame alternate voter, and I would get from family members. It was just a lot. The MVP thing, once I came over to NFL Network, I was like, it's just my ego satiated. I didn't need to do it. So now I could talk freely. I could throw in any hot take and no one's accusing me of bias or anything.

Well, House, you don't have a vote. I don't have a vote.

I think it's wise. It's probably for the best that I don't have a vote.

But it's the same thing as the NBA. I mean, it's like, and I'm not knocking any of the voters, but people think this is some... It's not an algorithm. It's not based on stats.

It's literally guys like me and guys like Kyle Brandt.

And I think Diana has one. It's not... And it's really a narrative-based thing where everyone puts work into it, but it's not like it's just such a science. They could go any way, man.

Well, I think, House, I think you would agree with this. It feels like the NBA IA MVP matters more. I think to the history of the sport, how we remember things, how we remember seasons. Nfl, maybe it's just a blind spot for me, but, Katie has a bunch of them. I couldn't tell you whether he has five, six, eight. I think he has three. Three? That's it? Okay. Manning has a bunch. Rogers has a bunch. It's just a little different. Whereas an NBA, I know Kobe had his MVP season was '08, Shaq Do you feel the same way, house?

I understand the point that you're making, but I think it's still pretty important in the NFL.

It does help. I agree. I think it is important. But from the history standpoint, do you feel like it matters in the same way?

I do.

I absolutely do.

It still tells us.

I'll admit I'm wrong then. It tells us a lot.

I will tell you this. You could define the season and you could remember the year. Exactly. For example, Monday, I was in Atlanta for Rams versus Falcons, and I I head over to the Rams Hotel in the morning just to say what's up to those guys. Matt Ryan's there. My son's with me. He's nine years old. What do I identify Matt Ryan as? Not the guy who lost a Super Bowl, not the guy... That's fair. That's a former MVP.

Mvp, Matt Ryan. That's right.

Yeah, that's fair. I'm an MBA hole. I guess it's just a blind spot for me because you think with Lamar, he's got his two, right? It's a big part of the case, and there's some... I don't even think it's rampant speculation at this point. It seems like there's some serious Lamar Raven stuff. I thought that piece in the Baltimore Sun last week was pretty illuminating and had a lot of breadcrumbs coming from the Ravens organization sign. But you think like, just saying Lamar Jackson is available versus two-time MVP, Lamar Jackson is available. It does feel like it has more weight. Did you believe that story? Do you believe there's real problems there, Shreggs?

Mike Preston has been working in Baltimore for 30 years and is a respected columnist. That was the first negative piece on Lamar that we've gotten since Lamar has gotten there, especially from the Baltimore media. So I think everyone's pointing the finger at everyone, but I believe that organization is fully behind Lamar Jackson as their quarterback.

So you don't think he's available this spring?

I do not.

What do you think, House?

Why would he be available? How can you do any better than Lamar fucking Jackson? What are we talking about? There's eight good quarterbacks in the entire NFL and four that are MVP level, and he's one of them. The whole thing is nonsense to me. It seems incredible. Did his leg fall off in the meantime?

There is some running QB stuff that I think, if you look at the history of this, we have... I feel that, by the way, the same way about Victor Wendell and tall basketball players. There's some stuff with the history of the... When you think about running QBs, the hits that they just take, the wear and tear of that position.

You're saying like a Ralph Samson There's a similar comparison. Kareem is the most successful tall guy we've ever had.

But there's been a lot of tall guys who their careers were ended up short. It's like a very tall building that you have to worry about.

You can do this with running quarterbacks in the NFL. You can talk about how Michael Vick eventually went off a cliff. You can talk about Dante Culpepper, famously, falling off a cliff. The question will be whether Lamar can be a pocket passer.

I would say Cam Newton. I'm just talking about the accumulation of hits, which I think for quarterbacks, running backs, tight ends. But you could say that would be the case for Sacks, too, right, Treg? If somebody took a bunch of big Sacks. Stafford is an outlier in this respect. I don't understand why all the hits he took in the Lions, the fact that he's still kicking, it's pretty crazy.

Yeah, but then there's David Carr and there's those guys that got the shit kicked out of them early. Jim Plunket. Going way back. It eventually takes its toll. One more thing on the MVP. I don't know if the MVP MBA is like this, but you have to fill out a ballot one to five, and you rank them. And your first place is five points, your second place is three points, your third place, whatever. So it goes down. So even if a guy gets a lot of first-place votes. If there's a guy who's just swept all the second place votes, that guy might be the MVP, which makes it interesting because first team all pro could be very different than MVP, which is a head scratcher in itself. Same voters.

This has happened a couple of times in the NBA, most famously with Charles Barkley, I think in 1990, where he had the most first-place votes, but I think he finished third.

Who got it? Magic?

Yeah, Magic got it because he had the totality of the votes, I think. But it was the same thing where he just was on more of the ballots. I don't mind it. So it's relatively the same, though, the way they count it. House, you have no dog in this race. Drake May, after the Matthew Stafford fall in a park game on Monday night, Drake May was minus 700 on Fandall at one point. Now, he's minus 340. And he's going to win the MVP unless they lose to Miami, I think is how this plays out. Do you think Drake May is the MVP, House?

I disagree with you. I don't think he's going to win the MVP. I don't think it's a fate accompli. I think it's going to be razor thin. And I do want to take advantage of this moment that we have with Schregs to give us, let's illuminate exactly what we're talking about here. He hinted at it a tiny bit there. It is voters. It's mostly media folks, right, Pete?

Yeah, mostly media folks.

You just call him Pete. Nobody's ever called him Pete. He's not a Pete. We're boys.

We're boys. We're boys. I feel like I can go a lot away with Schreg here.

This is Pete Sampers, Pete Schrager.

He's four sitting here together. It's a great Happy New Year, 2022.

He didn't.

Usually, you do PS or you have some... I'll get there. Anyway, go ahead, Max.

But let's shed some light on this because I do think that the voting constituency is important to... I mean, in the first place, the betting odds. This market is insane to me. The idea that the implied probability of Drake May at minus 340 is well north of 80 %, and Matthew Stafford in the whatever, 15. I don't think those probabilities line up in any way, shape, or form, because you said this your own self. It's a narrative vote. Who has... Bill Simmons just made the case. Who's taken more hits in his career and still playing at an absolute near MVP level? Matthew Stafford. If this is going to be an award where we recognize in a year where nobody's really distinguished themselves a career achievement, then that's Matthew Stafford, because Drake May is going to have his turn. He's going to have his chances down the road. When you do the strength of schedule stuff and you see it all over the Twitter machine, When you do that, even when you put common opponents, performance versus common opponents, it's a lot closer- You mean like when Drake may beat the Falcons and Matthew Stafford didn't?

We talked about stuff like that?

You mean the miss extra point that the Falcons, the buffoonery, out of the Falcons, the worst special teams in all of football? Yes, that is one difference.

I never remember a strength of schedule being this important to an MVP race before because there's nothing else you can ding Drake may on other than, Oh, you haven't played enough people. It's not his fault. First of all, how many actual good defenses are there, Schrake? Well, you got Denver, Houston, and Seattle.

Those are your three good defenses.

And maybe Philly, Philly South, right? Yeah, Philly is pretty good. So he hasn't played those four teams. But other than that, if he played San Francisco, guess what? Drake May would have put up awesome stats against San Francisco. If he had played... Pick all the playoff teams, there's a bunch of them that he would have had really good stats on. You go through the advanced metrics. It's so convincing for May. It's almost like you have to look twice because the other piece that everybody forgets, this is what I was texting you about Schraggs, not to sound like a Boston homer. I honestly think this is crazy. His legs.

The rushing.

May has over 400 rushing yards. He's rushed for four TDs. He's rushed for 35 first downs. He's kept plays alive. I sent you all these EPA stats where Pats have the number one offense by EPA. May is at the top in every category or in the top three in EPA. And then you look at protection protection. The Rams are top three. The Pats offensive line is 26. Mays had to scramble on 10% of his plays. Stafford had to scramble on 2%. Mays is running for his life in a lot of these games. He's threading the needle on these long bombs. He's had 12 of the greatest throws I've seen in the history of the Patriots this season. Matthew Stafford has Puka Nakuwa, the best receiver in the league, who catches five-yard passes and runs for 60. He's had Devante Adams for most of the season. He's a much better offensive line. He plays in Dorsi as Sean McVay. What are we talking about? If you switch these two guys, if you switch them on different teams, are you telling me Drake May would have worse stats than Matthew Stafford? Are people really think this?

House nailed it when he first said the thing about the betting odds and the lines and the odds makers. Throw that shit out the window. They have no insight on this. None. They can speculate. But I will tell you this, Monday night, I'm in Atlanta and I'm doing the rounds, whatever. I'm kissing babies, doing my thing. And some fan comes up to me and is like, Schrake's Matthew Stafford minus 450 for the MVP It is before the game. And he goes, How much should I put on it? I go, Whatever. I move on. At halftime, after three interceptions and being down 21-0, he was second in the odds to Drake May, who is now the favorite. That's how how turbulent this is. Now, I would also add- Because Matthew Stafford sucked in the game.

He was terrible.

And that was in a small game.

And by the way, not a small game.

I'm going to give it to you because of the narrative part. So why I mentioned that thing with narrative. We're all journalists or it's Boomer Esias and Troy Akemen. It's people in media who are voting on this thing. We love a story. And as much as you're giving the EPA numbers and you're saying strength of schedule shouldn't matter, it never has, we're looking for a story. So for Stafford, two primetime games in a row, his team lost. In a game where it was a easy slam dunk, going to Atlanta, his home, he's got all these friends from UGA, pretty comfortable setting, indoors, 21-nothing at the half, looked awful. Offensive line was a nightmare, but he got sacked a bunch of times through the three picks. The voters right there are like, Oh, it doesn't feel right in a big spot to say he's the most valuable player. Now, Drake May has only played really two big games, and he won one of them on Sunday night before anyone was even attuned to any of this stuff. Then when they're up 21-nothing in a game that everyone's watching, no fault to his own, he dropped the ball.

They have nothing to gain the two of them the next two weeks, the next week. So Africa, they're for 6,000 yards against the Cardinals. That's true.

The Pats have something to gain this week because the Miami game is sneaky and they got to lock down the two seed.

Yes, they have the two seed. But the one seed with Trey Lance starting is probably going to go to Denver. So I don't think they have anything more that Drake may can do. And the stats last week against Freddie Cook and the Jets, they look great on paper, but the voters aren't blown away. The guy that I'm going to insert right here because it's not a two-horse race, and on FanDuel or DraftKings or one of them, it was 500 to one last week, is the running back out of San Francisco, Christian McCafree, who in two back to back primetime games has been unbelievable.

He's 500 to one on FanDuel.

Five hundred to one. So I'm telling you now, don't believe any... If he against that defense in Seattle in a third straight primetime game goes for 200 yards, has two touch downs- We're going to lose House.

House is going to leave the pod so he can go bet on this.

I have another screen.

Remember this narrative. Everyone in America is going to be watching that Seattle-San Francisco game. Nobody in America is watching Arizona-Rams. The last taste they have in their mouth, whether you think it's fair or not, is a three interception game against the Falcons. For poor Drake May, the schedule thing matters in that. It's like, yeah, that's been the story all season, but he didn't really do any slam dunk stuff to us in the big spots. In the one big spot, they go up a 21-point lead.

I have a massive counter to everything Schrake said, but I need half His take on everything Schrake said first.

I agree with everything that he just said.

I do think- Fuck you, House.

I don't have a rebuttal. The problem for Drake May is they just played one of the easiest schedules in the last 30 years.

How's that It's not.

It's not about fault. It's a narrative award. That's all.

You guys are jerks.

If you pump it into an algorithm and all this stuff, you might say it's a no-brainer, but you could also say it's a no-brainer for Stafford. The fact of the matter is there is a small window for door number three, and we haven't given this award to a running back since 2012. If you're comparing Saquon to McCaffee, last year Saquon, Saquon season was better. But Lamar and Josh Allen had historic seasons. Do you think Drake May... I know it's been a great story. Do you think it's an all-time historic season from a quarterback?

Well, I've watched every snap of Drake May's career. His team was terrible last year. It couldn't have been worse. It couldn't have been worse coached. The offensive line was bad. He had no weapons at all. He dragged them to 4-13. I don't know how they went four games. Going to this season, look at the receivers and the weapons he has compared to the Rams. Everybody's like, Well, he has Stefan Diggs. Guess who doesn't play every down? Stefan Diggs. Stefan Diggs runs, I think, 22 routes a game because he was hurt last year. They've been really careful about how they use him. So his one weapon, the most reliable guy he has, isn't on the field? Maybe 50% of the game. Nobody else he has you care about other than maybe Hunter Henry. Henderson was the running back who didn't do anything for two months and then finally came on. Ramondre felt like he was going to get waived six weeks into the season. Then the offensive line has been really rough. Then he lost his left tackle.

He lost Campbell.

He lost his right tackle. All he's done is just carry the team and been incredible week after week. I don't know why that doesn't matter. When you talk about narrative, Schregs, we've had this narrative with the young QB turning into a guy.

Mahomes, Lamar.

Yeah, second year. Mahomes at Lamar in 19.

Dan Moreno, second year.

Rogers, 2011, although that team was awesome that year.

Kurt Warner, 2000 or '99.

When we've had the, I'm now here. I'm now one of the guys that sometimes has been rewarded with the MVP But the bigger thing to me that I can't believe isn't part of this, the Rams are fucking six seed. The MVP always comes from the one seed or the two seed. We've established that. Shield did his MVP pod before that. He did another one halfway through the air in Ringer NFL. It's like, you have to pick the pool of candidates who will either be the one or the two seed because that's who usually wins. If the Pats are a two seed and Stafford is a six seed, then what are we arguing about? His schedule was tougher and he threw for more passing touch downs because he's pooking the cool on his team. And Devante Adams, this is what we use for the NBA. House and I have used this forever. Switch the players. What happens? What happens if Stafford is on the Patriots? What happens? With the offensive line have without the weapons with the new offensive coordinator. Does he do as well as Drake May did? I don't think he does.

I mean, the argument could also be pushed back to you and say that last year's Patriots were awful. They also spent more money than any team did in the history of free agency this offseason.

Yeah, finally. We didn't spend money for 20 years.

It's not like it's the same roster. It's not bearing.

They're getting Trayvon Diggs. They didn't spend money on anything. Kraft, hey, do you have another 500,000, Bob? No, I don't. Sorry.

The keg is tapped.

No, I- I just made myself a coffee, so I'm fucking flying right now.

I see what I'm fired up, too.

I just walked off a plane. I got a lot of caffeine going through right there.

I wanted to ask Shregg this. If indeed, the McAfree thread rises to the four, who does that hurt more? Does it hurt Drake Mays candidacy or does it hurt Stafford? We have a third-party candidate who's going to siphon away some votes. That's good. We both None of us here think that McAfree is going to win. I can't imagine.

Running backs. When was the last running back that one?

2012. Adrian Peterson.

It was Adrian Peterson, right.

I think that impacts... If the Niners win, and we're going to do pics in a second, the Niners win on Saturday night. Saturday night, right?

Yeah, Saturday night.

With everyone watching, stand-alone game.

I personally think that should flip Coach of the Year. Vrabel is the favorite right now. Vrabel has been amazing. He took a shit team that was really even worse than 4-13 and turned them into what he turned them into this year and completely changed it. What Shana Han did with that San Francisco situation is just bonkers. Un Unbelievable.

Bonkers.

This is where I even have money on Vrabel. I think if they win the one seat, I think Shana Han should win Coach of the Year. This is like, Vrabel has done one of the best coaching jobs I've ever seen of any Boston team from a first-year guy. I'd I just can't believe the Niners are even in this. It's impossible.

I had the Niners two weeks ago in Indianapolis, and I had breakfast with Robert Salah at the Team Hotel beforehand.

What a fucking name drop from Pete.

Pete. Sneaky Pete.

Doing it again.

For Pete's sake.

For Pete's sake, here's a name drop.

Did you throw that one at the producers yet?

I've been trying. I've been pushing. I think- Sneaky Pete's good.

Anyway, I got to go.

Anyway, we need a sound, something from a radio when I do a name drop. Sneaky P.

Yeah.

He was like, so proud of these guys. Then I'm like, yeah, no Warner, no Bosa, no Mikhel Johnson, who is their rookie. I'm like, I don't know a single player on their defense.

They have Kean White, who we gave to them for a conditional seventh-round pick. He plays every down.

It's not me insulting. Like, Bryce Huff is their top pass rusher.

Yeah.

That's not an insult to him. It is completely the truly no-name defense. They're not exactly the 2000 Ravens or the 76 dealers. But when they have to, they make a stop. They did that with the D-Winters pick six, and Then, of course, last week with Caleb, where I hated the hook and ladder call because it eats up all the clock, and then all of a sudden, they're scrambling. But either way, that Niners team has been so ravaged by injuries that I think it has to go to shame.

They were on backup defensive backs on top of all the best guys they lost. That guy, Williams, I bet on him for defensive rookie of the year before the year.

Did I say Johnson? I meant Williams, yeah, or whoever.

Well, whatever. Then you have offensive line injuries. You have the quarterback switcheroo. You have some of the close games they've won. How much money have you lost on the Niners this year?

I actually haven't been once or the other with the Niners.

You've been afraid of the Niners? Yeah. You have wearing them.

I haven't been jumping in there too much.

But, Bill, I think there might be seven worthy contenders. It's not a two-horse race in that conversation. How do you tell Ben Johnson that, No, you're not in this?

For Coach of the Year? Yeah.

Liam Cohen, the Jaguars.

I would have Liam Cohen third right now.

First-year coach, first-year offensive coordinator, first-year defensive coordinator, first-year GM.

I thought rehabilitated a guy that we need to give it up on.

Rehabilitated. Save that man's career. Save Trevor Lawrence's career.

Mike McDonald in Seattle, if they're the one seed, after firing the offensive coordinator after one year and bringing in Sam Darnold, suddenly they're the one seed. Sean Payton has an argument, too, with that Russell Wilson salary cap hanging over that team, and they're the one seed. It's a great year. I mean, any other year, there's usually two coaches, and it's the team that came from nowhere to win. This year, I think they're six or seven. Demeco Ryan has an argument. It's a good year for it.

Well, also a great year for the new Coach Theory House, one of our future staples. We had Jags, Pats.

Don't tell Jets fans that.

No, what was the third one? There was Jags, Pats, Chicago. That was the premise for I love the Pats every over. I like the Chicago overs. The Jags were the one I couldn't get behind because of Lawrence. And the Lawrence that we've seen the last couple of weeks. We'll see this week. We'll talk about it when we get to the pics. This Jaguar is Tennessee The game is pulsating as a stay away to me. Throw in every parlay, you feel great. Oh, yeah, and the Jag's money line. And then, Kam Ward hits somebody for a 78-yard countdown. Lawrence throws a pick six. It's 14-nothing. It's just Something that scares me. I think you made a really good case for McCaffrey. Just because of the quarterbacks not grabbing us. Because they're the one seed. Yeah. Also, what he was doing in that last game where he's clearly not 100% either. He's It's going to be what? Isn't he over 400 touches house? Four hundred touches? Yeah. That's like 400 plus touches is nuts.

And I'm approaching a thousand receiving yards. It doesn't seem like he's going to quite get there, but he's holding. He's got 890. Yeah.

I said it's like what we were talking about with the Lamar thing. When you're up on the 400 touches for a running back, whoever, it's just not a long shelf life after that. I remember when Aaron Schatz wrote about that, he called it the Curse of 370 about runningbacks. That's cool. And the running back that he wrote it about, I can't remember who it was. It was like priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, somebody. He wrote the piece and the guy's career died in a year. It was like, We think this is the number. I feel that same way about these quarterbacks that take big hits and then McCaffrey. He's not going to be playing football in three years, do you think?

We'll see if he's healthy. I'm watching Derek Henry still run for 200 something yards.

He's a physical freak. Can we compare anyone to Derek Henry?

Jim Brown.

I played Madden with my son, who now can just kick the shit out of me in Madden. I'm actually going to have to go... It's like Rocky III. I'm going to have to go back in the lab, get the eye of the tiger back. He put Derek Henry in a shotgun and just ran direct QB drives with Henry. He was stiff harming Robert Spalane, who's slower in the video game than he is in real life somehow, and was just cackling as he kicked my ass. I'm like, Derek Henry is eternal as a video game guy, much less a football guy. All right, so you have McCafree. What's your ranking right now? You don't have a vote, so you could tell us. One, two, three.

I'd probably go Stafford, May, McAfree.

I can't believe the staff. What would you have, house?

Same. Same.

Stafford's numbers are astounding. You need both Baltimore- He's Pukunaku and Devante Adams.

How does that not truck strength of schedule?

Bs. You need Baltimore and Carolina to win so that the Patriots have three wins over winning teams. Right now, they have one win over a winning team this season. One win- Except we play who's in front of us. I understand that.

I hate the strength of schedule stuff, too, Bill, but it's literally the easiest strength of schedule in the league. And Stafford has the hardest strength of schedule of all the playoff teams in the league. I hate that it's becoming... It's like the 17th tiebreaker, but they're neck and neck.

But that's where we are. Here's the thing. I get confused with strength of schedule versus defenses you've played, I think, are two different arguments. That's fair. There's only four defenses that have mattered this year. How many of them has he actually... Did the Rams play Denver? They did. No, they didn't.

No, but they played the Texans.

They played the Texans. They played not a huge production game. He played the Eagles. He played the Eagles pretty early. He put up 26 on them. If he wins the MVP as a six seed, that would be different than anything that's happened with the MVP that I can remember.

What about if he's a five seed because that's still in play?

The wild card guys don't usually win. They don't. Whatever. Here's my last case for my Drake May argument. It's like third and 70 on Monday night, and they have to run a player where somebody catches it out of bounds. I know. Stafford throws it. Pukunaku is so good. He saved it. He almost makes the greatest catch in the history of football. And actually makes the catch but didn't get a second foot in. This is who he gets to throw to every week.

Bill, the play before Xavier Smith was open and Stafford missed him.

Yeah. I think Stafford has been good. I would have voted for him two weeks ago. I even thought maybe last week I would have voted for him. I know.

All right. I might change my vote. You lost it. I might. Honestly, I might. You made a great case.

I just think the switch to teams, how does the guy do, I think matters in this. The fact that May can move around and Stafford can't. You can't say Stafford throws the ball better than May. You can't. If you watch May all year, you can't say anyone's throwing the ball better than him this year.

His completion numbers are insane.

He's completed 72 He's 1% of his passes, but he's also nailing deep throws, and he's throwing the guys that mostly aren't really open.

Stafford also had two awful halves. I mean, that Falcon half in the first half against the Panthers was horrendous. It's hard for me to say It's an MVP season. I'm with you. It's hard. It's so difficult. I'm so glad I don't have a vote. But I also hope that the voters put as much time and thought into it as the three of us are right now, because I don't know if they do.

Yeah, this is going to be a two-hour pod now.

You know what really annoys me? House pretending he cares about the history of the NFL MVP. House, who won the 1997 NBA MVP?

You know it. '97. It was the year after MJ left. I don't know.

Karl Malone. House doesn't remember. Yeah, Karl Malone won. Who won the 1997 NFL MVP? Nobody knows. I'll tell you right now.

Fahrf. I could do it.

Yeah, Fahrf. I could do it. Ask me NBA, ask me NFL. Who won in 2002?

What, NFL?

Yeah, NFL MVP, 2002.

Manning.

Rich Gannon. That's the thing with the NFL MVP has some stinkers. Come on. Let's be fair. I'll do respect to Rich Gannon, but come on.

We have Steve Nash on back to back MVP.

Matt Ryan with the MVP. There.

Back to back, Steve Nash. Shaq was in the fucking league. Let me just remind everybody.

Yeah, that was tough. All right, we'll take a break and then we'll do pics. Schrags, I thought of another name for your Running ESPN segment. Schrags to Riches. Dude, I love it. We'll be your name, but two riches, and it'll be like you as a rich guy and then a poor guy, just like a pauper.

Pauper on the street.

Schrags to riches. We need two riches.

They already have a Rich Eisen. Can you get Rich Paul?

There's two riches right there. But A bunch of riches. The best one, what was the one we said was the best one?

Peter's Principles.

No, there was another one. What was the one where you're doing this?

For Pete's sake. For Pete's sake. Can Alabama play defense?

It's like you've been moss. For Pete's sake. For Pete's sake. Where's Christian McCaffery in the MVP odds, guys? 501 for Pete's sake.

Why didn't Miggy Rojas? His moment, win moment of the year.

What are we doing? Before we do Picks, any other topics you want to hit? Yes.

I just watched this Indiana team kick the shit out of Alabama 38 to three on the road.

I wanted to- I had money in the house.

I want to present two-prong question to you. One, what is the comp for what this Signetti has done with the Indiana program? Is there one? And two, if you're an NFL team, are you not breaking down the doors to get this Signetti as your next head coach if you're one of these teams that are looking to hire a culture center?

There's three culture center college coaches right now, right? We're moving Lane Kiffin because he just took the job. Lanning? Lanning. Notre Dame guy, and then Indiana guy.

Freeman's going back for sure. Those are three.

Freeman's already reupped and did some new contract. But those would be the three guys you would go after.

Indiana signed Signetty to an eight-year deal. But the money to me is when NFL coldens call and these guys listen.

Well, it's interesting that there's no kick-ass candidate this year. There's not. Because even last year, it was basically, you knew the Vrabel sweepstakes were coming.

Well, Ben Johnson and Vrabel were huge names.

You knew Ben Johnson was coming.

This I'll tell you because I talk to these folks. The four names you're going to get are Jesse Minter, the defensive coordinator for the Chargers, Jeff Hathly, the defensive coordinator for the for the packers. Chris Shula, defensive coordinator of the Rams. These are the hot names. Then, of course, you'll get other guys that have coached before or whatever. You'll go through it. But this is not last year where it's Ben Johnson lighting up the league and it's variable, and it's the whole thing. So this is the perfect year for a team to think outside the box and say, You know what? Fuck it. I just watched this Indiana coach in two years bring this team from the most decrepit program in sports to one of the best coached, most disciplined teams. I'm going to go young here. I would throw the bag at him.

Well, I would have said Atlanta was going to have a job open, but Rahim's fighting to keep the job. He's one of the teams we're in to cover. Reims.

No.

Reims is in control of the NFC South.

He might be able to keep it. Here's my question. My question is, who is the last great from college directly into the pros to make an impact on the professional team?

Harbaugh. Harbaugh almost doesn't count because he was the NFL quarterback.

Chip went to the playoffs his first year, but he wasn't sensational after that.

Well, he was sensational this year as the Raiders offensive coordinator, but it's a different use of sensational. Somebody hired him again. Northwestern hired him. Didn't they watch him work with his magic with Vegas? Yeah, to me, it's apples and oranges. The best one ever with this was Spurrier, who took over house this time. I forget what year that was. 2001. We knew it was done when it talked about how he worked from 8: 00 to 4: 00. So you could go play. And he wanted to go play golf. He had me out of the facility by 4: 00. We were like, This guy's fucked. He brought in work. He's gone again. He's going to work at 60 hours a day. It's over.

Very relatable. I understand where Steve's coming from.

I'm an 8: 00 to 4 guy. With the comparison with Signetic, the name that I thought of, and I bring it to you because you guys are obviously sports aficionados, and Bill, especially, you as a connect guy. Jim Calhoun with Yukon is what I came up with.

Or Gino, I guess, would be the other one if Gino had done the crossover.

Bill Snyder at Kansas State.

From a women's program, the NBA. Out of nowhere. I remember, how's that another one? Leonard Hamilton, they hired for the From where? University of Miami or somewhere?

He ended up at Florida State with a tremendous run, a year after year of super competitive teams at Florida State. He just turned out to be a college guy. Jimmy Johnson is pretty good.

Oh, shit.

I'm thinking about those.

Yeah, they're going way back. I think for NFL, I would rather take a chance on a guy who's two or three years too young than do a college guy. That's your Chris Shula argument. I think there's a higher success. Now, there's always Raheem Morris at Tampa where he was too young. He was 30.

Yeah.

But there's some other examples of getting the guy early, and you'd rather be early than late because at least you know it's a 15, 6 an hour job. What do you think is the best job that's going to be available, though? Out of all the jobs.

Well, we have to first decide which ones are available because I think there's a couple of wild cards right now. I think we know the Giants and we know the Titans. I have no assurance that Atlanta is going to be available. I have no assurance that Mike McDaniel is coming back to the Dolphins. And I have no assurance It's that Pete Carroll is out.

Well, yeah, that Pete Carroll and then Stefansky, I think, is a wild card, too. Yeah.

So out of those teams of the maybes. And then if Tampa loses, people here, I'm reading the local newspaper when I was coming down here. I I don't even think of Todd Bowles, where people are like, How could you lose this season? That's a total wild card. If the Glazers decide, You know what? Let's start a new. We got Baker, whatever.

If Todd Bowles loses this game on Saturday, that's got to be it for him.

He's won four straight division titles.

I know, but you lose eight of nine to end the year with a pretty talented roster. I don't know. What do you think, House? How does he come back after that?

To me, it's not an if. I don't think about Tampa this weekend as an if they lose.

You think no chance, huh?

Oh, House.

They haven't covered in nine games. I mean, what evidence is there?

It looks like the vibes look bad, Shregg. You're there. Your feet's on the ground.

Well, we had our meeting with the Bucaneers today on via Zoom. And obviously, you're going to get the optimistic team. But Baker said, I don't know if I'm revealing anything. It's like there's rules against what you can share. So here I am. Baker said, he's like, We've had control of our own destiny since week one. Suddenly, we don't. So today's vibe at practice was good. It was loose. It was like, Fuck it. Let's just go and let's go do our thing. The pressure of losing that, finally, they've lost that. Carolina now controls their own destiny. So they're going to play loose. They're going to play Lucey hoping to get back Kalanja Kantze, hoping Tristan Wurfs plays. And if you know either one of those guys, if they're hoping, I imagine they're both going to be on the field. That's a better team than they had last week.

I think Baker is like, House will get this because he's an actual hockey fan. When the hockey playoffs, the series ends and the team gets eliminated, it's like, Brad Marshan was playing with a torun labrum and five broken ribs.

You'll find that out after.

And a herniated disk in his back. It's just all these injuries you didn't know. I can't wait to find out what Baker's injuries were. He has at least two. There might be something wrong with both of his shoulders, and there's something wrong with one of his legs. He can't move anymore and he's not accurate anymore.

I don't want to be a dick, but the gentle response to Baker is it's not suddenly. You're two and eight over your last 10 games. It didn't happen all of a sudden. There were many, many, many winnable games in there.

They were six and two.

They were six and two, and they They beat the 49ers, the Texans, and they beat Seattle in Seattle. Can you imagine? They're missing the playoffs. It's crazy.

I want to get to the pics, but when we're talking about the coaching vacancies, let's just assume more jobs are going to be available than you think. Last year, Vrabel, who I think could have had his pick, was like, I want to coach Drake May. I think he even used the Jets as a little bit of a straw man because he was trying to get Kraft to get to the right place. He was using a lot of people behind the scenes to hopefully get Kraft to see the light, and he did, and it worked out great. What do you think is the best job that might be available? Because I think it's probably Baltimore. Wow. If the Ravens lose on Sunday night or if they get killed in round one and they decide to stick with Lamar, something's got to change. Harba has been there forever. You could argue new coach, he could see it differently. I would say Baltimore. Would you say somebody Anybody else?

I know you're going to say this is the bias in me, but there's a team with an elite pass rush, a franchise quarterback, and a left tackle on the roster in New York with elite neighbors at wide receiver. Where you can argue that you step into that and the roster is there and you can be a lot further along than some of these other teams that have salary capital.

Another top four pick.

Another top four pick, maybe a top two pick. Giants is, and it's It's that logo and it's that market. People do gravitate towards that.

I mean, Arbol, for the Giants, makes sense to me. It does. I honestly... Pete, you know this. I'm calling you Pete because this is...

I can't believe this.

I've never been called Pete in my life.

Your boy, Cliff Kingsbury.

First time with Pete.

Maine. I don't know about Cliff Kingsbury here in Washington. I don't know that that's a lifetime. They didn't sign them to a lifetime contract.

Did you see the stat? Washington, The schedule makers gave them eight standalone games this year, 0-8 in those games.

I watched.

David, when they do the schedule, and by the way, I would even say this with my own team, although I think we're set up a little better than Washington was because Washington had an old roster. There were some predictable pieces about it. But they should take into account the year after when you went from the super easy schedule to... My dad and I were talking about the path schedule next year the other day, and we were like, Oh, my God. That's right. The check is coming. It sure is. For everything that happened. Cincinnati is mildly interesting, but they've won their last four, and they're cheap. I can't see them paying two coaches.

I think they'll keep it. They kept Marvin Lewis all those years. I want to go back. Cliff, If you were saying out, you would say he'd be a head coaching candidate, or you would say that what?

The offensive- Because there's no head coaching candidates.

Atlanta is an incredible situation. Atlanta is amazing on both sides of the ball.

Holy shit, that's a good team. I couldn't agree with Housemore. I think that's the perfect team.

Because they have a fuck ton of talent. If they could play any special teams whatsoever.

They're the stupidest. How are they not a 10 and 6 team right now? Who's your quarterback? They have so much talent. Who's your quarterback? And they traded next year's first-round pick for another passer.

They don't have a first-round pick, so who's your quarterback?

Malik Willis. Lamar Jackson.

You guys are the best. Two great answers.

I agree. I think Atlanta has a ton of talent.

They're very good on both sides of the ball.

It's ridiculous that they're not going to be the winners of the NFC South. I can't believe they're not going to win it.

They don't get a lot of credit as a fervent fan base. That place was rocking. If they just had a team that could... I mean, it was amazing those years when they were going with Julio and Matt Ryan and all that. That place was on fire on Monday night. Gosh, if Lamar was their quarterback and Bijan in the backfield, are you serious?

When my team played them, first of all, they were way scarier. To me, they felt like an 11-win team when we were playing them. They beat Buffalo. Jake London, we couldn't stop. Was terrified of Robinson. It's just hard to believe. You watched him last week at the Rams. I was scared of that game all week because I had had the Rams in a money. I ended up doing a giant hedge the other way, but it felt like just a live spot for Atlanta. And yet they went full Atlanta in the game. The game was over. All of a sudden, it wasn't. All of a sudden, it seemed like they were going to blow it. It was classic. I have seven games to discuss for Ringer 107, and I'm just going to list the games. And if there's a game missing, tell me. Bucks Panthers, Falcon Saints, Seahawks 49ers, Ravens Stalers. We have to talk about those four. I want to talk about Bengals' Browns because I have some hard thoughts on that. Vikings packers and Chiefs Raiders were the seven I was looking at for picks. Is there anything else house?

I wonder about the bills just because- So Alan's sitting.

I don't know what the Jets motivations are. Mitch Trubisky.

Doesn't it matter to the bills, though? Wouldn't they prefer- I think they can go from 5 to 6, right?

Or seven.

Yeah, wouldn't they... It's a question.

I'll put it- But it's a high line, though, so I don't know even what you do with it.

Let me tease it. That's one thing you could do.

I know, but we can't do that for Rina 107. Before we even get into it, week one, my old colleague and dear friend Kyle Brandt on Good Morning Football used to say, Week one is a liar.

Stay away no matter what. You don't know what the hell we're getting. Stay away. I think week 18 is a liar as well. You have no idea what teams with nothing to gain are going to come out and play with their hats on fire like the dolphins did to the Patriots all those years and those meaningless... You don't know. But I like to find teams that have something to play for and play in those parameters. I don't know what the hell to do with Chiefs Raiders.

Well, so the case you just laid out is actually the case for this game because we do know what one of the teams wants to do. That is lose with the Raiders. That's right. The Chiefs are five and a half. It's in Vegas. The Raiders points the last eight weeks. They scored seven, 16, 10, 14, 17, zero, 21 in the Houston game, which included a pick six, and then 10 against the Giants. My question is, is it just Casey Moneyline parled with an under 42 and a half, thinking the Raiders can't score more 10 points and the Chiefs have Michael Ola with Kandy as their quarterback? Chris Ola Doken. Is that just a game we should be looking at, knowing that Vegas is not going to try to win the game? They do not want to win.

I don't want to have anything to do with it, to be honest with you. I really don't. How many chief starters on defense are going to stay?

That's fine. We'll cross it off. You've also seen these games.

I remember the Jets-Rams a couple of years ago where the The team has nothing to play for but the number one pick, but the players don't play that way.

Yeah, but they keep sitting all the players that could impact the game. I know. They must have cut a deal with Pete, the other Pete. The other Pete? Not Pete Schrager. Pete Carroll. Yeah, they must have cut a deal. We're going to get rid of the rest of these games. Please, let's lose. We'll get Mendoza next year. And you could say- We'll spend some money. You can stay. And maybe they'll double cross them.

I don't think Tom braided wants that.

Vikings, Packers. Packers locked in in the seven seed starting Clayton Toon.

Yep.

Had to sign Desmond-Ritter.

Yes. Vikings laying seven and a half. Let's go. They're one-four straight. Can lock down nine, nine and eight for the year.

Let's go get it. That's one. That's one.

Love. Shrake, are the packers playing anybody in this game? No. Their defense has been ravaged to the bone, and they're not going to try to play any of those guys on defense, I would imagine, with a playoff game coming up the next week.

They just signed Trayvon Diggs, didn't they?

They did. I can't imagine.

He didn't tell you in the football field this week.

I can't imagine he's going to be picking any two passes off.

My Cowboys fan friends seem to think he was genuinely terrible for the Cowboys this year.

Is that true? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff, apparently. I don't know all the details, but there was off the field and on the field.

Okay.

Love the Vikings. Who's playing quarterback?

I'm going to bold the Vikings. Do we know?

Is JJ playing or is it- Our guy is a bro. Is it Brozmer?

He's my man, Brozmer.

All right. Bengals, We're on the same side of this one, too. I know already.

Let me hear.

First of all, Cleveland, I saw this in Aaron Schatz's thing. Cleveland now has the ninth-worst DBOI offense of all time, and they have the 10th-worst special teams of all time. Let's go. Then you have pretty frisky at home, not always reliable, but frisky and on the road, one of the worst road teams in a while. You have no Harold fan in this game house. He was like their one target. Since he waited DVOA, which they do that it favors the second part of the year, the last two-thirds, they're 17th. They looked good last week. This feels like a run it up. Let's try to end the season with good vibes.

Fuck it. You know what sucks is, yes, we are absolutely positively betting the bangles. I'd lay a half, make it 10 and a half. I don't give a fuck. We're laying all the points.

I can even make it 13 and a half.

Fine. Whatever you want. Let's alt-spread.

What happens if they go up 10-nothing? The Browns, how are they going to score?

No chance. Zero chance. Yeah, we're alt-spreading the hell out of that with my real pocketbook. But here's what I hate. Here's what I hate. The beginning of next season, when we're sitting and looking at how the Bengals finish the season, especially-Oh, they won eight games? Their defense got much better. From week 10 till now-It is.

It's noticeable when you watch. They actually have a little bit of a They're in a fast rush now. They stopped the run. They're different.

I agree.

I don't know the time.

Since 2021, they have won by 20 points, two games in a row.

They had that crazy Baltimore 24-nothing loss. Where I actually thought their defense played pretty good, and Burrow single-handedly killed the game for them. He was sad. He was sad, listen to Smith's Burrow. He's happy now. Now he's happy again. Chase Brown has some incentive stuff in this game. There's some money incentive stuffs on the bangle side that you got to watch for? Yeah. All right. I'm going to mark that one. We're in lockstep.

Alt spread.

Ravens Stealers.

Where do you...

It feels like a stay away, but it's also a playoff game, and I feel like cowards if we're not bidding it. It's Ravens three and a half in Pittsburgh. Winner gets the four seed. Lamar playing. Lamar definitely playing. Yes. The thing for me, House, is the no Metcalf piece and how impudent the Steeler's offense looked without Metcalf. It was like nothing in the red zone works anymore. Plus, they lost the giant tight end. He broke his arm.

That's right.

So nothing in the red zone works for them anymore. They don't get the Rodgers third to nine bailout, wrong shoulder throws to Metcalf anymore. That's just out of the offense. And all you have to do is basically stop the run. And what are they going to do? Schrigs, I don't see a case here for the Steelers. Here's the Okay, let's hear it. Well, they're underdogs, which is always dangerous. Home underdogs.

Rodgers fucking lives for these moments. Whether you think he's clutching these games or not, he's not going to lay an egg here. They're in the Same exact situation before they played Baltimore the last time, came out swimming from the jump, and Baltimore didn't have an answer. This is the season on the line. It's Tomlin, it's everything. Last week was horrendous. Down the stretch, Here's what kills you down the stretch. In February, you go to the combine, you spend $100,000 sending your entire staff there to do scouting. In March, you do free agency. April, you do the draft, you get Rodgers and May. They signed Valdes Scantling a week ago, and he's getting the pass for three straight plays at the end of the game.

It's like they were running the Metcalf plays for him.

They thought he was Metcalf, and he hasn't been on the team, and he hasn't been playing football. Now, it's like, all right, take a breath. We're home. T. J. Watt We'll see if he plays. The hope is he's back.

After he got stabbed. After he got stabbed.

Tyron Taylor style. Here's the other part of it. It's such a wide open AFC, and I know you're saying the Patriots, and we're talking about the Broncos and the Texans. It's like, I could see the pep talk before the game. Roger is looking around the quarterback room of the rest of the AFC and seeing Drake May and Bo Nicks and Trevor Lawrence and saying, Are you fucking kidding me? Get me in that dance and let's I'll see what we can do. I've been there. All this stuff could be moot if Derrick Henry runs for 200 yards and Lamar is running all over them. But I like the stealers in this one.

Well, you're supposed to because in the first place, when the line in this series is three points or more, and it's three and a half right now, the underdog is 24, 5, and 3 against the spread. On top of that, as an underdog against the Ravens, Mike Tomlin, 14, 4, and 2 against the spread when the line is three or more. So you're supposed to like the stealers here. Man, does it hurt? I don't like any aspect of it.

Might be a stay away. Can I read you the receivers the stealers had last week?

Give me some Scottie Miller. Give it to me.

Freyermouth led the team, three catches for 63. Scottie Miller was three for 25. Valdes Scantling, three for 21 with nine targets. Three for 21. Jay Smith?

Johnu.

Oh, that's Johnu Smith. Forgot he played.

Did Adam Thielen get one?

Washington, two for 15. Then he broke his arm. He's gone for the year. Adam Thielen, two for 14 with five targets. Then Gainewell, three for 12. Are you serious? How are they going to move the ball?

For Pete's sake. For Pete's sake.

So, House, can I at least offer you a life raft with not having to go against the Stealers as a home dog?

Let me hear how you're doing.

Ravens Money Line, under 50 and a half points, gets us eligible for Ringer 107 stuff. They would have to score 51 points to beat us. The Stealers team that has no receivers and a Ravens team that's just going to run the ball with Lamar Jackson. I'm not even sure I want to do that.

I But I'm just...

The other way we go is Baltimore Money Line over 32 and a half if you think the game can get to 33 points.

I don't want to do a combination because we just did this. We just did Baltimore. We did. We got host. Yeah. Fuck ourselves. How How are Malik Willis and Snoop Hunt going to score 50 points? Well, I guess.

Highest scoring game of the season. Yeah, exactly. So maybe it's a stay away. Yeah. I saw Schrags on ESPN in his For Pete's Sake segment doing the Don't Count Out Aaron Rodgers for Pete's sake.

It's true.

His MVP last year.

Well, the thing is, if they get in, so Rodgers is in the locker, I'm like, Oh, if this win this game, then we're home. We get Netcap back next week. Home, probably on Monday night. We can beat every wild card in the league. Let's go. There's a case where everyone has money on the Ravens, everybody. It's the classic January Lamar.

Can I request something?

Just thinker, followed by what happens in the future.

Can I get Chris Collinsworth from you after a crazy Aaron Rodgers' shutdown pass in the fourth quarter? Bill, can I get the impression?

Adam Thielen should have been out of the league five years ago, Mike. Here he is catching back shoulder balls in the end zone. All right, we could stay away. Seahawks minus one and a half in San Francisco. Winner gets the one seed. They played in week one. It was San Francisco 17, Seattle 13. And in the sports movie version of this game, Mike McCarthy watches the video of him being a coward.

Mike McDonald.

Mike McDonald. Sorry, Mike McCarthy. Mike McDonald watches the video of him cowering out and kicking the field goal when he shouldn't have, when he should have just gone for the fucking fourth of 1 kill and cost him the game. Now he has a chance to avenge it. I just want to point out, San Francisco has the 27th ranked defense in DBOA. I know we talked about them a earlier. But if there's ever a team to light the wick on Sam Darnold's candle, it's this Niners defense. Sam Darnold has been under siege a couple of games against good defenses. Now, finally, some space and being able to see things and they'll be able to run the ball. They have a really good defense, which San Francisco has not faced in a while. I am leaning pretty hard Seattle here, Schrake's.

Nobody has played quarterback better the last two weeks in the NFL than Brock Purdy. I get it. This offense is as good as- To throw a pick six. It's as good as anybody has put on the field the last few weeks. Seattle is traveling all the way back from Carolina. They have a short week, have to play Saturday night on the road. There's a lot of things to like about San Francisco.

Do you feel like San Francisco has a home field advantage in that weird Santa Clara Stadium? Yes.

That place was rocking last I've never seen a football game there. No, and it's not Candlestick, trust me. It's not. But it's also not MetLife where you walk in and you feel like you're at a dentists office. I would say the carrot at the end of this thing is the first team ever to be the number one seat and have a Super Bowl at home. It's like, if we just can win this game, we don't have to sleep in another bed other than our own the entire way and we could be Super Bowl champions. That's the message there right now. Get through this game one win at a time, but cheese.

House would be the opposite. House would be like, I'd love to be the I'm just on the road for a month. This is great. I love living in a hotel rooms.

Four straight. That's four different hotel locations.

First of all, I don't think anyone needs a carrot in this game. It's for the number one seat. You have to play in round one.

I'm not trying to guess incentives.

I'd also add Clint Kubiak, former Shana Han disciple, Sam Darnold, Shana Han had him for the year.

Shana and Revival. Rehabilitated them. Yeah, rehabilitated them a little bit.

There might be a... I mean, you could say that, okay, that means they're going to be okay, or the Niners know what the pros and the cons are of that team.

Can I add one thing here? Mccafree looked fucking banged up by the end of that last game.

That is such an X factor. I totally agree with this.

To me, that's the number one reason I wanted to take Seattle. That did not seem like the guy who wanted a 35-touch workload in this game. So what do you think, House?

The plank with the stretches where you try and get your hamstrings into your glutes. He's on the sideline doing that in the end of the third quarter. The poor man. I felt so bad.

House and I are old guys. We know all the old guy bad back moves. We have done all of them.

To hit me in the heart, I am pretty strong on Seattle here. I really think that this defense that can put pressure on without blitzing and drop guys back into the middle of the field. Brock Purdy lives in the middle of the field. We just watched, and he's going to have Kittle back. But Man, every time they need third and third and sixth, second, he goes right to the middle of the field, and he is incredible at it. But if you look at the defenses, the success rate of the defenses, since he came back from injury, all they've done is beat up on questionable defenses. The two best defenses that they played were Cleveland, who they took care of with Cleveland being buffoons, and Carolina, who also had their own version of of buffoonery. And there were not incredible yards per play numbers or success numbers for the San Francisco offense against those defenses. This is an entirely different level of defense. And Mike McDonald now, with his ability to put pressure on, especially with Trent Williams. The news doesn't seem good. If he's out, then give me Seattle all day.

You see, if Kido playing hurt, we're probably playing. You have McCaffee playing hurt. If Trent Williams is probably not playing, you have a defense that... I'm looking at the bears last week. They gave up 38 points to the bears. And by the way, it should have been 45. Caleb Williams gacked that last throw. He did. The guy was open.

Good defense, though.

One of those touch downs was a pick six. It was 31, they gave up.

But still, they could have had if they score in that last drive, they would have had basically six scoring drives, five offensive touch downs. Yes. Yes. There were guys open all over. Luther Bird, and by the end of that game, you thought he was Jerry Rice.

He was crying.

You have Seattle who can go. They can go big, they can go smaller, they can control the ball. I don't want to bet on Darnold in a playoff game when he's going against an awesome defense. I'm just telling you now, I'm not doing that. Me either. That is a cross-off for me. No, sir. But when he's going against a flimsy defense, I don't mind Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold's put up big stats against bad defenses. And I just think with the health strikes, I think you're getting outvoted on this one. All right.

Winning in last year, if they win against Detroit in a big spot, Sam Darnold's team gets the one seat and gets a week off and then could just rest everybody. And you remember what happened on that Sunday night to Detroit? I am a Sam Darnold fan, and I think he is... I mean, look at his wins the last two years. This guy can play.

But Purdy in these games- We're getting the Darnold redemption.

Rock Purdy is a robot in these games. He is from another planet. He's Terminator 2. I don't know, man. I look at the quarterbacks, I look at the coaches. I look at the big game experience. Give me San Francisco at home.

It's pretty good. All right. We'll see who's right because Haas and I are jumping on Seattle. Jumping on them. Atlanta and the Saints.

Such a fun game. Two best teams in the NFC South.

Unbelievable.

If Atlanta wins, Carolina quinches the NFC South. Now, Carolina and Tampa, that's the last game we're going to talk about. I love the Falcons in this game. I love them before they scratched Alabe. When they scratched Alabe, I You're going to be kidding me because I've actually watched a lot of the Saints house, and I have quietly been betting Saints games, and mostly in the Saints. They lost Bayley, who was actually really coming on for them. Then everything moved to Alabe, who all of a sudden looked like a top five guy again. Now he's out. There are no weapons anymore. Tyler Shuck, it's like, I didn't know how he was doing it to begin with. Then this Atlanta team, this would just be the most Atlanta game ever to beat the Saints. By the way, with the Saints, they proved what they want to prove. They have hope for next year. It actually makes sense for them not to care about this game. I love Falcons by three. This is a classic Falcons game house.

What do you think? Shreggs, I want you to help us because the only thing that concerns me is that Shuck has played his way It's a legitimately into the offensive rookie of the year conversation.

He's winning it. It's over. He won.

Wow. Okay. Who would you want it? Who would be the alternative? Well, there you go. Who would be the alternative? It's Ted.

No, it's Shuck.

I'm just telling you, I'll look at the market while we're talking this through.

I thought they were their co-favorites right now.

Right. That's what I mean. But Schregs is telling us- By the way, I left that one case for Atlanta Schregs.

They're not their first-run pick.

No, I know. They There's no tanking here. And their coach is below.

They literally have nothing to play for. And their coach is trying to keep his job. And they love him.

To me, this is a smash spot. And they love him. The players love him because he's the nicest guy in the world.

Yeah. I also think they have way more talent than the Saints as good as House's own buddy, Chase Young has been.

You made a great point, though. They've proven what they wanted to. I could see them saying, All right, that was awesome.

Here we go. There also is a big difference between a fourth-place schedule going into 2026, 2027, and a third-place schedule. That's not to be dismissed out of hand. There's a bunch of injuries. You keep seeing defensive guys for the Saints on the injury list. We're doing this on Thursday night, so we'll have to see how that plays out because the defense has quietly been the thing. They've covered five straight games and one, four outright.

And they've been good in second half and stuff, too. Yeah, they shut down draughts. So I'm looking at the stats from last week. They beat Tennessee by eight. Olavia was eight for 119 at 11 targets. The next guy was Juan Johnson had four targets. Pettus had three. Austin Jr. With five. Matta Veo with two? They got no guys left. If Atlanta can't win this game, give me a break. The other thing, it's just the most NFC South thing ever. If Tampa beat Carolina and then got knocked out by Atlanta. It's just like- No, I think it's the other way around.

It's just hilarious. They need Atlanta to lose, right?

Who?

Tampa needs Atlanta to lose. Yes. But it would be hilarious if Tampa won and then Atlanta won and they got knocked out even though they won. But I think the Carolina Bucks game, I know where house is going.

Wait, are we messing that up? I'm sorry. I have to make sure.

No, we're not messing up. If Atlanta wins, Carolina quinches the NFC South, no matter what happens in Carolina. Yeah, that's right.

Every Bucaneers fan is a Tyler Shuck fan. Yes, that's right. That's what I said to myself to get this right.

Bucs minus three Panthers is the last one. This is an I'm so stupid game because no matter what happens, if you're on the wrong side after this game, you tell yourself how stupid you are. Bucs, we covered all this stuff with them. We saw this game in week 16, Carolina 23, Tampa 20. It felt like Tampa should have won the whole game, and they just kept doing dumb shit. Carolina kept having drives. And then, as House loves to point out, House's favorite zigzag team, the Carolina Panthers. Good week, seven. Good, bad. Win, loss, win, loss, win. They've done this for almost three months. House, you love this when this happens.

Every one of their wins, they have eight wins this season, has come as an underdog. What are they this week? An underdog. It's time to play the Carolina Panthers.

It's an even week. They're unstable in even weeks. Yeah, look, this isn't either team could win, you might as well grab the points would be. Also with the Bucks, because I started the week and even started this podcast, you probably could have talked me into the Bucks. But as we laid out how awful they've been for two straight months and how we don't know if Baker Mayfield is healthy. It just this would be an on feel stupid game if you lay minus three with them.

They just lost to Quinn fucking yours. What are we talking about? Their playoff life was on the line. Their destiny was in their own hands. Their defense has It's been horrendous for 10 weeks.

Their defensive backfield, which was the strength of those teams with braided in the last couple of years with Baker, their defensive backfield is just completely ravaged with injury now. I would add this from the Tampa side of it, just having talked to Bulls and those guys.

Okay, let's listen.

Let me just say.

Oh, he did, and I talked to Bowles.

On a production meeting call. That's official.

That's not now. Sneaky Pete. Sneaky Pete. I just talked to Bowles. Here on Sneaky Pete.

They've got Mike Evans. They've got Tristan Wurfs. They've got Baker Mayfield. They've got Levante David. These guys are like who have been there and done that and to just completely shit the bed and let this season go to waste. There is pride in that room. If this is Levante David's last game, there's something to rally around there.

There's just this- But why didn't they rally the last five weeks?

I know. Exactly.

Back against the wall? I don't know.

Why didn't that happen last week?

All right. I tried.

Why didn't that happen in week 16 when they played Carolina?

They should have been very proud to beat Carolina.

Exactly. That's why this is such a great game because you can totally talk yourself into either one. By the way, I don't really want to take Carolina. What's so crazy is- I don't feel great about it. I don't trust Bryce Young.

Remember Abuka was the rookie of the year? He was the only guy healthy. Everyone's healthy on that receiver's room. Now they got Bucky Irving, they got Tucker, they got... Everyone's healthy on offense, and they've completely gone into the waste baskets.

17 points against Miami, 20 points against Carolina.

Here's my only other favorite this game house. When they played two weeks ago, Tampa had the ball for almost 35 minutes. Carolina had the ball for 25 minutes. Tampa rushed for 169 yards. Do they just run the ball down Carolina's throats and just tell Baker, Don't be crazy here. That'd be my fear. This is why this is an I'm so stupid game. Carolina only ran for 101 yards in that game, which if you're going to make the case for Carolina, they're going to be able to run the ball. Mcmillon's back this week, right?

Yeah.

It's an even week. It's an even week.

Well, let me ask this.

And Tampa has proven that home field advantage means nothing to them because they keep losing games at home.

Should we just stay away? Because these are two stupid teams. We've just established that neither one of them is the best team in the NFC South, but they're playing- If we stay away from this, then that means we have to either take Ravens stealers or chiefs raiders.

Why are you afraid? That means we just have to take the chiefs minus five and a half.

Why don't you like Houston? What are you afraid of with Houston? They still have a chance to win the AFC South, and they're playing at the same time as Jackson.

It's the Jags.

Yeah. Now, the Jags have Tennessee. Houston will be looking and seeing the Jags up 21 points.

You just laid the case why I'm afraid of them because in the second half, they could just not give a shit about the game.

But they are also playing with Riley Leonard. Riley Leonard is traveling to Houston to play football against the Houston Texans.

I get it. The Colts have a lot of good dudes, though. They still have talent on offense. I just worry about Houston at halftime going, call off the dogs, time to see what we got. Let's save everybody. Fair enough.

The only other one I was honestly looking at was the Dolphins.

Schrake has a point.

Dolphins plus 11. 5 in New England with... I don't know. I just think that line's way too high.

I agree with you, but the Patriots keep covering those big lines. I'm not messing around with it.

This is unrelated to the games this week, but it is something I've thought through. The Texans right now would most likely be the five seed.

The four seed would most likely be the winner of the...

It is the Raven stealers winner.

It's the stealers hosting somebody.

Or the Ravens.

Or the Ravens.

Now, the 4-5 matchup is traditionally the wild card Monday night game. I I don't think back-to-back weeks, ESPN is going to get Carolina or Tampa as their Monday, as they're on their slate. They have it this week, which leads me to Texans Ravens on Monday, Texans Ravens or Texans stealers. I tell you this three-minute soliloquy, I think the Shakeys game with the Texans is in trouble, guys.

Oh, no. Did you tell Sal? I have not told Sal.

I don't think they're playing on Saturday afternoon this year, guys.

All right, I'm going to have to make an executive call with one of the pics. You're allowed. I think we're right to stay away from Carolina. I have to roll that. I know. Thank God. It's such a stupid game. All right, today's Ringer 107 presented by FanDuel. Here's what we're going to do. We've agreed on four of these pics, and then I'm audibly on the fifth one. Seahawks Minus one and a half in San Francisco. Schrags made a very strong, enticing case for the four Niners. That was overruled by House and I. Thank you. Because we think the Niners are too banged up. We like the Sam Darnold against the Fuinsey defense and the Seahawks D We just think they're a worthy win seed. By the way, incredible DBOA team, Seattle. San Francisco, 27th DBOA defense. So that's one. House and I both love the bangles in a smash spot against the Browns, minus seven and a half against one of the worst offenses in the history of the league, now playing without Harold Fanon. And the Bengals just pouring on, trying to confuse us for next July as we're looking at their division odds.

House, is this your favorite game?

I really love it, yes.

Okay. Next one, Vikings minus seven and a half at home against the packers. And Schrigs' guy, Clayton, too.

Let's go.

Minnesota could lock down nine and eight for the season. They could lock down a five-game winning streak. They could talk themselves into, Oh, if this hadn't happened and this hadn't happened, blah, blah, blah, maybe we would have won 11 games. If they had a professional quarterback. Right. And Green Bay locked in to seven. They don't care. This is a, let's not get anyone hurt. Let's get the fuck out of Dodge game. So that is one, two, three. Oh, and then we have Falcon Saints. Falcons minus three.

Can you imagine? It's going to come down to a Falcons game, the most perplexing, maddening, vexing team in the NFL this season.

The Saints have just run out of playmakers. Kudos to them for a spirited second half effort, but they have nobody left for Taylor Shuck to do anything with. Falcons, this would be the most classic thing ever. If Tampa wins, and then the Falcons knock them out of the playoffs, but don't win the NFC South. Falcons minus three, that's our fourth one. And then our fifth one. We're going to do the Baltimore money line in a parlay that House hates. Ravens minus three and a half against the Steelers. I don't trust it. Steelers home underdog house laid out all the case. I just think the Ravens have a better team. And you take D. K. Metcalf out. I have no idea how the Steelers moved ball. Schrigs warned us. He begged us. Baged. Told us to listen him. Technically not listening or not listening to him because we're not doing the minus three five. We're doing Baltimore money. House, you pick over 32 and a half or under 50 and a half.

I don't want responsibility for this. Which one you pick? I mean, it's a 13 to 10 game.

It's a 13 to All right, so we're going Ravens money line under 50 and a half points. How is this game going to have 51 points?

How do any of these games do this.

Malik Willis, New Puntly last week. You know.

Exactly.

Those are the Ringer 107 picks for week 18. All lines are lines that could potentially change on Fandil. I wanted to mention What was your favorite pick, Schreg? Cincinnati?

I like the Cincinnati. I feel good. They're vibing the right way. I think Cleveland had their moment last week, beat the Stealers.

Their Super Bowl.

Yeah.

They'll get the sack, too. Joe B will go down for miles.

They'll get the sack. As an aside, I am getting text from everyone in my life that this rewatchables top 50 movies of the 2000s that you just sprung on your two co-hosts.

21st century, not 2000s. 21st The blind podcast.

You just blindly dropped on these two cinophiles of yours was arguably your greatest podcast episode.

Oh, wow.

In maybe a decade.

This is like people enjoyed it.

There's a lot of talk online that you are right now in the zone, like a Steph Curry zone the last few months.

Oh, shit. There you go. Is there HTH rumors yet?

No, this is heat check Bill Simmons. I know you don't respond to the Reddit thing, but they tag me and everything.

Jesus.

The pendulum has completely swung back that they're all in on Simmons.

They're all in on Simmons. I gave up sugar. 2026 can be my best year.

They don't know that we went to Germany two weeks ago.

Yeah, we went. How can I keep flying in Germany and getting the- Sneaky Germany. Was it blood spinning?

Blood spinning, yes.

That's my next move. That same reddit feed said that I had a splitting image with Lena Dunham last time I was on the podcast, which I don't know how to take that.

That's pretty good.

I just don't like the meanness.

On these Internet threads. This is funny. That is funny.

That's a pretty good book.

I like it, too. Wait, when does your no sugar, when does all that start?

It started five days ago. Why do you think I've been on fire this whole podcast?

What did you eat after all the drinking yesterday? What do you mean? Almonds? You were on a bar crawl. What did you eat at the end of the bar crawl? You didn't have almonds, motherfucker?

No, we ate some stuff. But no dessert? Nothing. No dessert is fine. What about two slices? I I have a margarita last night, which I think has sugar in it.

Is it a Skinny Girl?

Yeah, that definitely has sugar in it. Skinny Girl. It was not Skinny Girl. It's good. House, you're just jealous. I am not jealous.

I was doing great for four years.

I was so focused on eating and being careful. House came out in the summer of 2017. We had launched House of Carbs, the food podcast we had with House. I know it. House wanted to go to all these LA spots, and House was I gained five pounds in four days with House. Beautiful. Including, we went to that pastrami place. Oh, so goddamn good. We went to the Patty Mel place. All of a sudden, I went off the wagon. It was like the guy in the Sopranos who started gambling again. That was friends with Christopher Maltasante.

Not the guy who was working in the Sporting Goods store?

No, that's another guy who went off the wagon. But yeah, house like, I was doing so well. And then house was like, Well, we got to get a milkshake. Well, if we're getting the pastrami, we got to put cheese on it. And then I just have never... I've always been focused, but never quite the same. So I have to not get Manny Mart.

Do you feel like you're in the zone right now, podcast? I don't want to jinks it like a perfect game, but you've been in the zone. You've been fucking hot lately, dude.

I just think there's been good stuff to talk about. The thing Fentany and I have coming up in the second, we do the 21 best sports movies of the 21st century. It's just good topic. It's going to be pretty good. Good content. A lot of good stuff. I'm going to listen. Plus in 2026, football playoffs, the basketball has been great. We got Winter Olympics. I care about the hockey. Have you been following the rosters for the hockey?

Adam Fox, my guy from the Rangers, did not get put on Team USA.

They left off Conor Bedard, Team Canada. I was like, whoa.

Wow.

He's on pace for like 100 points.

Poor Connor. What did he do?

Marshan's on there, but it's like that. That's going to be incredible. Then we got World Cup. We got basketball play-ups.

World Cup is going to be insane.

We got WMBA lockout. I don't know. Hopefully, they'll fix it. No, it's like we'll have labor stuff to talk about. This year is going to have everything. Plus, Lamar Jackson getting traded in the Falcon. Drake May going for a second MVP.

Kirk Signetti, the coach of the Giants.

Have you talked to House at all about how the Wizards passed up Cedric Howard to take Trey Johnson?

Don't do that. That's not appropriate. And Dara Queen. Dara Queen was available. Was he?

The local guy. He literally grew up in the DMV. Should have taken Danny Wolf.

My guy on the Nets, my favorite player in the league.

I like him. He's sweet.

I got trash talk by Jimmy Butler. I called him Whiteboy over and over again.

He's better, Jimmy. What did he do? I mean, that's literally true. How's that an insult?

The Nets are in a panic trying to trade Michael Porter right now because he's ruining their draft pick. Yeah, he's too good to be in the Nets. He's unbelievable. We've had a career renaissance. All right, guys. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Great to see you. What a way to start '26. I hope we win all of our bets. Shanks, maybe for the playoffs, maybe you could just pop on.

I would love to. Hey, you know me. I am a total glutton for the punishment I get online when I come on this podcast. Every time my name drop, I cannot wait to join.

Sneaky Pete.

Thanks, guys. All right, we're recording this on New Year's Day. We just finished the first quarter of the century. Sean Fentasey is here. Pops on the rewatchables from time to time, pops on this podcast from time to time. Host of Big Picture, just did his 25 best movies of the 21st century. Always complicated with the 2000. 2000 doesn't count. It's not part of the century. People get mad about that, but it's just not the case.

Well, we did a pod on the rewatchables as well for your favorite, your most rewatchable movies of the century, and you shared that rule, but then you did pick proof of life.

I know I fucked up. I thought it came out in 2003.

It was December of 2000, so it was right in the cutoff line.

No, I would have bumped it. Well, Zodiac can go right in spot because we forgot to put in Zodiac. So you had Social Network at number one, which is what I was figuring because we've talked about that movie a lot over the years. But if you had consulted me, which you didn't, you did the one filmmaker movie for the list, that's it, you couldn't get two. So what was the big regret of did anyone qualify for They Should Have Had Two Movies on the List if you were doing it, if you had a two-movie rule?

I think part of the reason we did that was because I personally would have put five PTA movies on there. If I was being honest about what were my favorite movies, PTA, Fincher, Tarantino, like Nolan, Wes Anderson. There's a handful of people for Amanda, Sofia Coppola, who are our favorite filmmakers comprise a lot of our favorite movies. So we did the one filmmaker thing. As with all Ringer projects, universal- Polarizing? No, universal acclaim. We've been told we're the greatest podcasters of all time. Everybody Everyone's really proud of our work. We're being celebrated today at the Rose Parade. We were on a float. I don't know if you saw a 25 for 25 float, and they were really cheering us on like, big picture, big picture.

So it was great. Congratulations. Everybody just really appreciates these lists, and they don't get mad at all.

They do.

People are really mad at a couple of things that might most... Even though I explained the premise over and over again in the beginning, and people were still furious that movies just go with it and a lot like Love were on there. So Limitless, I stand by it at number 16, even though it drew orborious laughter from both you and Chris.

In the moment, it was extremely funny because you were naming a lot of movies that we know you love that are sentimental favorites. And then you were also naming all-time classics, Dark Knight. So yeah, Limitless is in that weird nether zone of just like, Bill, it's 3: 30 on a Tuesday afternoon, and he just puts on TNT, and Limitless is there, and it's like a warm bath for you.

There it is. Yeah, he just started taking the pills. I'm waiting for basketball to come on. I'm ready to roll. One thing I was thinking with the century from not a rewatchable standpoint, but from a best movie standpoint. I feel like five movies, anyone can have their own list. The one that surprised me that wasn't on your list was Brokeback because I felt like the five movies from the first quarter that I just feel like would be on most people's lists are Social Network, Dark Dark Knight, There Will be Blood, No Country, and Brokeback. Then everyone else's list is probably going to look different, but I feel like most lists would have that. Those were the five for me that I think as I thought back. Then you start getting into the spotlight Zodiac, Opp and then it becomes a little more personal preference. But then it really Social Network, Dark Knight, and There Will be Blood are probably the three because I think There will be blood had the, as you talked about on the pod, it has the best performance of the 21st century. Then Social Network is called Culturally, maybe the most significant.

And then Dark Knight is the most ambitious from IP.

We blinked at the last minute and flipped Dark Knight for Oppenheimer because of the one director rule. But I think they were neck and neck the whole time. We didn't do Brokeback. I psyched myself out on that one because Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is the other Ang Lee movie, and they're like 50/50 to me. Those are two really big movies for me. Amanda and I didn't really get too deep into that conversation, but You guys just did Brokeback on the pod. That's just a classic movie. It's just an amazing film. I don't know. It's tough. You're right that there's some films that feel totally canonical, but also we're in our own bubbles. We're in our own... To me, the social network, the age that I am, the people who were involved in it, what it meant to what my career was going to become, feel so important. Other people see that movie and they're like, this is a biopic about a dickhead. It's not that important. It is what it is.

Now, that's the Steve Cohen story. Hey, hey, hey.

We're in the bedside today. We don't know that yet.

We're not positive yet.

Let's see if Kyle Tucker or Cody Bellinger come to New York, then we can say that.

I think one of the things when I think of best movies, it's a combination of, was this a great movie But also could this reach a bunch of people, I think is the sweet spot, which is why Social Network was so interesting because it was such an awesome movie, but it also could appeal to almost everybody and was also rewatchable. It checked every... And it was well It was perfectly written and perfectly executed. It was one of the first rewatchables we did. I think we did that in the first year.

Yeah, it was. I think it was a huge hit. It made $250 million, and it was at a time... It's only 15 years ago, but that feels unusual for a docudrama to make that much money. The rewatchable thing, we felt that immediately going back for this project because the second I put it on, I was locked in. Just put my phone in the other room. Just totally focused on it and engaged, even though I've seen it dozens of times. But that's a hard needle to thread. This is a great and important film that is also fun. It's really challenging.

Yeah, because I thought Fantom thread was great, but I don't think it has the same legs because I don't think it was for everybody. It's a weird rewatchable movie, but it's just impeccable. It's impeccably done. It's perfectly acted. It's really unique and original. There's no movie like it, but it got lost as the years passed.

But you think just go with it just inches above it, right?

Just in terms of it. It's a family movie. You'll be watching it with your kid. How old is your kid now? She's four. Almost five? She's four, yeah. She's four and a half. Are you going to be five? Yeah. Age seven? Watch what happens. Dana Day-Lewis, the actor of the first quarter of the century? I think so. Is he the number one? I think he is, right?

Who do you think is the star of the century? I guess the easy answer is Leo, but we talked about that a bit, too. Denzel has a case, Cruise has a case, Damon. There's a couple of people who had incredible 25 years.

I would say Yes, street ped. You'd probably have to break it down with Oscar nominations, box office, batting average, I think would be big. So it's probably Leo from a batting average standpoint. I think so. Every single movie that he put out, either made money, had an audience, was well done with a good director. He didn't have a lot of those clunkers. What was that Jennifer Lawrence, Darren Arnavsky movie, Mother? Mother. Is that what it was called? He doesn't have a mother in the 25 years. It's just all either Bangers or really interesting choices or Shutter Island. There's no weirdo movie for him. Everything had some purpose.

They all made a lot of money, too. I mean, even Revolutionary Road is probably the smallest movie he made this century. I think it still made $80 million or something because it was a reunion with Kate Winslet after Titanic. So, yeah, I think he's probably the biggest. For the future, I mean, it's Timmy's time, man. It's happening.

It's happening. Yeah, it's happening. I mean, he's awesome in that movie. Yeah. And that movie is a hit. Which you just covered. Movies are a hit. People like great performances. They do. I was thinking for actress, it's probably Streep and Kate Winslet and Emma Stone are probably the three that would be in the combo from success, box office, number of good projects they were in. But they all had different errors. It was almost like basketball. Whereas Leo was all the way through remained about as relevant and where I lost it.

Yeah, none of them, none of those three were consistent box office killers. We did a Cate Blanchard episode, I think earlier this year. She's made a ton of movies, most of which most people haven't seen. But when she's good, when Tar comes along, right, you're like, well, this is clearly the best actor in the universe when that movie happened. But she picks a lot of artistic projects in smaller films. It's a lot harder to say on the actress side.

Well, you're here to talk about sports movies with me. I love I wrote about them a lot when my fingers worked, when I was in Page 2 and even at Grantland. It was part of when I was trying to figure out what my column would be for Page 2 in 2001, trying to figure out how do I be a national column list because there was really no roadmap for it. And it was like, well, I'll do culture stuff. I'll do Running Diaries. I'll talk about fantasy football. I'll talk a lot about pop culture. And then sports movies, I'm going to try to be like Roger Ebert every time there's a sports movie. I did I love reviews of summer catch, terrible movies.

I remember, man. I was reading them. I was reading them and I was like, no one else is writing about these movies in more than 250-word capsule reviews.

But then occasionally, there are some really good ones. And I obviously developed a lot of opinions. It's something I care about, something we cover a ton on the rewatchables. We've now done all four Rockies. Amc Rocky Marathon on tomorrow, by the way. So I asked you to come on. I sent you the alphabetical version of my 21 best movies of the 21st century, which goes from to 2025. You do not know what the actual order is, but I wanted you to at least be a little prepared. Some caveats here. The rewatchables list was like, these are just the movies I saw the most. I have no explanation for it. Some of them have to do with my family, my wife, just what was on, what are comfort movies. That's a different list. These are just the best sports movies, in my opinion. Ineligible, all the 2000 movies, which include Love and Basketball, Remember the Titans, The Replacements, Bring It On in '61, which is a really good HBO movie that I'm throwing in there, directed by Billy Crystal. All right. Honorable mention. And you stop me if any of these were like, whoa, he didn't put this on?

What the fuck? Sea Biscuit, Million Dollar Baby.

Keep going.

I hate Million Dollar Baby. I don't really like it either. I know it did well in the Oscars, but I just I can't believe people weren't more upset about the last 15 minutes. It's just so dark and awful.

It is very well made, but it's impossible to get away from that feeling that you had when she just falls and hits the ring chair and Breaks her neck. You're just like, What the fuck, Clint?

Then she's in tubes for 10 minutes. Then he suffocates her to death. Spoiler alert, I don't care. Came out 20 years ago. It's the most depressing movie I think anyone's ever made about sports.

It is a very weird movie. Off by list. It was a very weird movie in the time. I remember it specifically because it came out really late in the year and it didn't play fall festivals or anything. It came out around Christmas and it was a big hit. It did really well. It was like, You got to see it. You got to see it. It came in really late in the Oscars door. But now it's like it lives forever as the best picture winner from that year. I think Clint won best director that year, too. It's like a fine sports drama with a painful twist.

If we ever do five-year Oscars, that's one of the first ones we have to redo. We've always talked about the five-year row for Oscars. That's one where I just don't think that one wins again. And there were other good ones that year, right? What did it win? '04? It was the '05 ceremony for '04?

I think that's right. Is it right after Lord of the Rings? Yeah. I mean, this is not the greatest year in the world. It's the Aviator Finding Neverland, Ray, and Sideways for the other colonies.

Well, now, if you did that again, Sideways win. Sideways would win, yeah. Okay. Keeping going here. Bend It Like Beckham, which I don't know if you've seen, and it's a good movie. It came in a time where there weren't a lot of girls' sports movies. It's a movie I've watched with my daughter. It's a soccer movie. It just has some major sports flaws. The lead of the movie, not Cary Knightley, the other one, is just not good at soccer.

Parminder D'Hongro, yeah.

It just jumps out in every scene, and they have to do these cuts. It's almost like when they have a lifetime TV movie or a bad cable movie or something, and there's a high school soccer scene, and it's like they have to cut it together because none of the actors... I just have never gone over it. I couldn't put it on the list. Goon is a movie I like, but I've only seen once. It has a huge fan base. They made a sequel. It's fine. I think it outpunched, it's outkicked its coverage.

I think you underrate this one. I think you underrate this one. I've told you this before. I think this is the one on your honorable mentions that I'm like, this is the one that I think is... And I'm not even a hockey guy, as you know, but I think it's really funny and really involving. I think it's good.

I think you're right. I already have regrets. Coach Carter, a movie I've seen at least five times. It's a half hour too long. I really enjoy it, though. It's a high school basketball movie. Movie is Sam Jackson. If it's on, it gets sucked in. Big fan is the one with Pat and Oswald as a crazed... Was he an Eagles fan?

No, Giants.

Giants fan who hated the Eagles. I like that movie. It's dark. Invincible with Mark Wahlberg. Just throwing it because it's got a bonkers Elizabeth Banks performance. She just lights out in that movie. She's playing like a Philly blonde bartender. It's definitely a captain on the Chris Ryan, Throw Your Life Away All Stars.

I don't think I've seen this movie. I think I just saw Mark Wahlberg as a Philadelphia Eagle, and I was like, I would sooner drown myself. There's no chance I'm watching this.

Well, it's one of those based on a true stories, and it ends with him blocking a punt and running in for a countdown, which I'm positive didn't happen. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's one of those. I wanted to mention The Hammer with Adam Carola, my friend Hinch, but that movie's good. Go check it out. If it's ever on cable, Carola plays a boxer. Yeah, it's a boxing movie. That's a very fun movie. It's a good one. The Blind Side, which has a great Sandra Bullock performance, is a ridiculous movie and is now when we do on the rewatchables, dramas that have turned into Comedy's Month, I think The Blind Side will be on it, but I've seen it multiple times.

I seem to recall thinking it was pretty funny the day it came out, but that's just me. Yeah.

Win-win? Paul Giamani? Yeah, quality wrestling movie. High School wrestling movie. Yeah, not quite enough wrestling in it, but I like this movie, The Fire Inside, which was a recent boxing movie that we both liked.

A little underrated, I think. It came and went around Christmas last year, but if people haven't seen it, it's a pretty good film.

Yeah, I think it's worth watching. Finding Forrester, I guess technically is a basketball movie.

You're the man now, Bill.

Another drama that's now a comedy, but is a surprisingly fun rewatch. Then last one, Grid Iron Gang, which I wrote a column when came out about this is just what Hollywood's giving us now, comparing Grid Iron Gang and The Wire. Hollywood wants to give us this. Meanwhile, over here is The Wire. Please watch The Wire, not this. But it's still a solid movie. Anyway, toughest cuts. I have five. Ford versus Ferrari. Where do we stand on this movie now? It came out a few years ago.

It's Elite, and it's shocking that it's not on your list.

I haven't spent enough time with it yet, and it probably should be on the list.

It's extremely good. Now, I know that there are other racing movies that we have to consider for your list. It would be weird to put several motor sports films on a list for...

That was part of my thinking.

You're not a motor sports guy, right? It's obviously gotten a lot more popular given the rise.

We talked about this in the F1 rewatchables. I'm not a F1 or motor sports anything guy But I love the movies about those sports. Always Deliver. I think they have the highest batting average of any sport.

They were also really an interesting portal for movies in the '60s and '70s, too. There was winning and Grand Prix and Bobby Deerfield. They were great star part movies. Ford versus Ferrari is a double star part. It's Bale and Damon, both in the disguise at the center of this movie. I think it's really good. You should check it out again.

Yeah, I almost had it. I kept moving stuff around. If I did a top 25, it would have been on there. Two for the money probably wouldn't have made it either way. But from a rewatchable comedy gambling standpoint, we just did it on rewatchables. It's hilarious. It's the of a sports movie. It's just turn your brain off and go for an hour and a half. That's sometimes what you want. So next one, Borg versus McEnroe with Shia La Buff as McEnroe. I don't know if you've seen this one.

I have.

It's excellent. I don't know how rewatchable it is because it's almost like you'd wonder, would the documentary of this just have been better? But I think it's really well done.

I know you have a really big relationship to tennis from this time, too. So I wonder if the amount that you know about the matches and their rivalry and the way that that will play out. Who played Borg? Was it a Swedish actor?

Yeah.

I remember seeing it and thinking it was fine, but that's interesting that you had a hard time cutting that one.

Hustle, Adam Sandler The Sandman. Quality. Good movie. I just liked it. Anthony Edwards is great. I haven't spent enough time with it. There's a chance five years from now, it might move into the top 21, but for now, it's on toughest cuts. And then Blades of Glory was another one that I I think I have a couple of other comedies over it. I didn't want to have too many comedies, but that was a tough one for me. A movie you like, I think.

I do. There's a trilogy of Will Farrell's sports comedies from the 21st century, and you got to... Everybody has their favorites, but I think there's one that is superior.

Yeah, I probably could have thrown SemiPro and Honorable Mention. I'm going to do that right now, even though we've already done that part of the podcast.

I think it's the least of the three.

Yeah, it's still watchable, though. It's fun, yeah. But yeah, it goes a few times. I have some casting questions. It's right in that, how hard can we go for the hard R era where it's like they might have been better off just going PG 13. Farrell is really funny in it, but it feels like at that point, he was playing the same character in a lot of different movies. I don't know. Maybe it's aged better for some people. Okay. We're going to take... Go ahead.

Do you want me to share any other that you left off or do you want to wait till we get to the end?

Oh, let's do that now because then we can take a break. I Let me give you your fantasy's left off list. Let's go.

The Ironclaw. Now, I know you have some issues with it. But I think if you pulled the universe of recent sports movies, that would be pretty high. I was a very big fan of it. It's not perfect, but I thought it was very effective.

I thought it was well done. I had just huge issues with how they bent the facts. I thought they leaned way too hard in this is a true story, and then just completely left shit out to the point that I was enraged as somebody who actually knew the story that they were doing. I could never get over the guy from the Bear as Kerry Von Eric. I thought that was one of the craziest casting decisions of all time. Honestly, it's just bonkers. It's like if we were doing the Victor Wimbenyama story and we cast somebody who was like 511, it's like, What are we doing? Kerry Von Eric The whole thing was he was this larger than life, kick-ass dude who could go against Hogan and whoever, and they cast the guy from the bear. It's just unbelievable that they did that.

I'll never get over that. And Jermia L. White is like, roughly 5'5. He is not a tall man.

He was too short to be Bruce Springsteen. Much less Cary Bon Eric. Good actor. But come on. What are we doing?

I think if you remove your intellectual relationship to that wrestling history, then the movie maybe works better for you.

And didn't they merge together, two deaths in a one death? That was another one. There was an extra brother. They just got rid of.

They just cut one death out. I mean, that's just how crazy that story is, though. They just completely left one brother, an entire brother out of the movie who also died. I don't know. I was absolutely hammered by that movie.

That's why I was left off. All right, keep going.

There were two... Well, okay, one, I know you hate this movie, but I would a million % put Challenges on. I think Challenges is great. I know you and Wesley tore it apart. I couldn't stand it. I never thought you would put it on your list, but For me, I think that's a really great... I thought that was an interesting modern take on a sports movie. It was like, this is we're moving the ball forward. It's like broadcast news, but in tennis.

That was how I thought that movie. I thought the ending was maybe the worst ending of any sports movie I've ever seen. Also, To be fair, a couple of years later, Challenges walked so Heated Rivalry could run.

There's a lot going on there. There's definitely some continuation in terms of... I haven't really gotten it. I only watched the first episode of Heated Rivalry. I got to keep going on that.

I've skipped it, but my hungover New Year's Day wife is currently They're ripping through it right now. I don't know if she showered yet. Anyway, keep going.

Then there's two from this year.

Okay.

One, I don't know if you've seen yet, is called Eephus, which is a movie about a rec league baseball team, which is a really solid movie, an indie film that came out, directed by Carson Lund, which I liked quite a bit, and it's making a lot of the year-end list for the movie fans.

I was okay with it. I liked it. I didn't love it. Maybe I wasn't in the right mood for it.

It's more of a hang. It's not It's like a propulsive narrative movie. And then Marty Supreme.

Oh, fuck. You're right.

I mean, is this not the best sports movie since what? I know you have a few more recent films that we will talk about.

No, you're right. Marty Supreme should be on here. Oh, you screwed me up. I was going through. I had all these lists forever, and I forgot to add the one that came out on December 25th. You're right. It got it under the wire.

It's pretty good. I I think it's a very effective sports movie, too, because when you're engaged in the sports movie aspect of it, the ping pong matches, that to me feels like watching a Rocky when I was a kid.

All right. You know what? I have some bad news for one of the top 20 ones.

You're going to cut one?

Yeah. I got to put Marty Supreme in. It's such a good call. I can't believe I missed that. I'm glad we're doing this in real-time. Listen, we're not perfect. No. Everyone makes mistakes. No. Admitting your mistakes and moving forward are some of the best things you do. Marty Supreme came out on Christmas Day, 2025. It should be on the list.

This is why I'm here on the pod, just to say this shit.

Well, draft A. I'm sorry. Oh, no. Draft A? It would have been fight here to cut Mariko because it could have been like the Ralph Cox thing. It's just like, wait, I thought I was going to the Olympics. Draft Day, sadly, is going to have to get cut. A movie that probably shouldn't have been in the top 21 to begin with, but it's so enjoyable. Coster's last great sports movie. It's got Chadwick Bosman playing out. What's he playing? Alvin Mac? I can't remember the name of the linebacker. Is it Vontay Mac?

It's Vontay Mac.

It's got Jennifer Garner, Inexplicably, as owner's daughter. Love it. I can't even remember that, but I like that movie. I've watched it a bunch of times. It's not good, though, and I'm happy cutting it out.

I think it's absolutely terrible, but it's enjoyable to watch. Late period, Ivan Reitman.

Well, now it's out. Okay, we're going to take a break.

Hold on. I have to ask you an important question before you go to the break. Why 21 Movies?

Because 21st century, 21 for 21.

Okay.

I don't know.

So one for each century?

I can cut one more and just make it a top 20. You want to do that?

It's your list. I'm just asking questions.

There was a reason why I did the 21 because I wanted to do a pyramid graphic for my sports movie pyramid. There it is. It was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and it was 21 movies. I thought that better.

It all makes sense now.

Okay, we'll take a break and do the top 21. All right, the top 21 with some important help from Sean Fentacy, who reminded me that Marty Supreme was eligible. So Draft Day, sadly, got bounced, as did all the 2000s movies. We just went through all the honorable mention. Coming in at number 21, Dodgeball, a movie we've done on the rewatchables. I was not on the episode. We let the fantasy boys handle that one. Very funny movie. I think culturally, it's had a nice tale. People like the distiller piece in this, and it just feels like it's lived on. It's always on a streaming service or on cable, and it's just had a nice shelf life.

It's Bill Simmons' history core as well with the Ocho joke. I feel like it's connected to your mythology. For me, peak Bateman. Some people might say Ozark, REST of Development. It's great. Bateman is elite in that movie.

I remember writing a column about it. I didn't like it as much the first time as I did probably the fifth time, but I remember writing a column about it. I saw it in Hollywood, and it felt like everybody was high. People were just dying laughing. But as the years have passed, I get it. All right, so that's 21. Number 20 is The fighter. Came out in 2010. It was a Boxing Passion Project movie, which it seems like every male actor has had, except Leo and maybe one other one in the last 30 years.

The Rock had one this Christian Bale, Mark Wauberg, Your Girl, Amy Adams. She's fine in this movie.

She's great. I think this is probably my favorite Amy Adams movie. Deep, Massachusetts, set in Lowell. We have the deep south. This is like Massachusetts. Lowell is like deep Massachusetts. You're just everyone's got an accent. Everyone has the, you think you're better than me, look to them. And they do a really good job of just hitting Massachusetts in the right way. This is when it shifted in the last 15 years of, if you're going to make a movie in Massachusetts, use some locals. Make sure your actors really know how to sound like they're from Massachusetts and act like it. And this is part of the renaissance, Sean.

I have two questions about this movie for you. One, do you think Bale passes the Massachusetts test?

He's good. This is another one where he lost a lot of weight.

He did. Because he's basically a drug dude.

The big issue for me with this movie, and I it in the last year is that they never really messed with the Goddy War trilogy in it, which I never understood. Just felt like the easiest IP. I remember seeing it for the first time being so confused that they never dove in there. But it's a very well-acted, well-done sports movie. Probably This might be David O'Russell's last good movie.

Yes. It's possible.

It's been a fucking drought for him.

I'm way more down on this movie than you are. This is like, to me... Well, let me ask you this. If the movie was set in Boise, Idaho, instead of Lowell, Massachusetts, would you like it?

It's a fair question. I think when it came out, it was very well received.

It was. Oscar nominations. It was a hit.

I think the acting is so good. I don't think you could have a list like this and leave this movie out, End Million Dollar Baby. I feel like I had to have one. That's why I had a 20.

You've got other boxing movies on here, though, that are better.

I know, but this is the prestige sports movie. I feel like I had a page three, but that's fair. Number 19, King Richard. This is a weird one because I think this movie has a completely different tale if the Will Smith Oscars thing doesn't happen. This was like his moment. Finally, it happened for him. I think if he doesn't slap Chris Rock, this movie is just remembered differently. It's probably on TV more. It's just gone. It's a great point.

Yeah, you're right. There's not a lot of legacy around the movie itself. And there wasn't as much at the time because it came out during COVID and it was part of Project Popcorn and went straight to streaming and all that. I saw it at a film I saw it at Telluride. And it was like raptures. It was like, this is Will Smith's best performance. It's his time.

The daughters were great. His wife's great.

This movie's good. Yeah. Archnie Ellis's Taylor is great in this movie. I came on the big picture and broke this down with you.

I It was really big picture stages. I don't remember. What was it? 2020?

It was '20 or '21. I can't remember.

Yeah, somewhere in there.

But between the slap and the fact that it was a streaming movie, ultimately, it's what it felt like. It feels smaller, but it's really Really well made.

Number 18, Talladega Nights, The Legend of Ricky Bobby. Just a really good sports comedy that has- Little low?

Little low for this?

Might be a little low, except I mean, the stuff that's coming here, I don't know. This is hard. It's 21 years of sports movies. Sasha baron Cohen is great in this movie. We haven't done it yet on rewatchables, but I think he would win the movie.

I think you're right. Is he Is he sponsored by Perrier? I think he is.

He's really good. This movie is really fun, and they did a nice job of actually diving into Nascar and using all the sponsors. Nascar embraced it very smartly, and it caught Will Farrell and all these guys at the right time. It's just really good.

How would you power rank Anchorman, Step Brothers, and this movie?

Exactly how you just said it. Yeah.

Okay. Me too.

Next one, The Rooky. That's number 17, a movie that's gotten a little lost in the shuffle. It was this stretch from maybe '97 to 2005, where we had these adult Disney sports movies. You always knew what you were getting when you saw the poster and what star they picked. Some of them were good. Some of them weren't as good. You would have your Glory Road with Josh Lucas, which was not good. You would have the Rooky with Dennis Quaid, which was excellent. I think this was, other than Miracle, probably the most successfully executed after I remember the Titans, which I think crushed that blueprint the best, but not eligible for this list. But the rookie, really good Dennis Quaid. He cements his legacy as Sports Movie Hall of Famer, first ballot, which I think he didn't even really need it, but he was like, Fuck it?

No, this is a really good performance based on a true story. And to your point, it's not just that this era of Disney original sports movies is over. It's like Disney doesn't even really make original movies anymore. Remember when they would pretty consistently, was this Was this released under Buena Vista or Touchstone? I can't remember what the sublabel was, but there was a time when you would get five or six movies a year like this from Disney, and now that's also all straight to streaming.

Yeah, this is quite an era, and they all made money. That's why they kept going and through Grid Iron Gang and Invincible. They kept going for 10 years. They'd spend 15 on it, they'd make 30, they'd make 40. Sometimes like Blind Side would just crush. But you just had to make sure you got your one star, you had a good story, and you go through. I wrote a piece in '09 or maybe 2010 about... Because you could feel sports movies starting to die, and we were moving to another era, and I didn't know what was coming. But I was wondering if documentaries were ruining sports movies in some ways, that as documentaries were getting better, was that going to be bad for sports movies. I think the next 15 years proved that that might have been true. We also might have run out of ideas, is the other thing.

Well, sports documentaries are getting shittier, so maybe we'll tip back to sports movies.

That's what we're hoping. We've There's no question. Sports documentaries have gotten way worse.

But continuing our now decades long conversation about movie stars, this is something that there's not a lane for Glenn Powell or Austin Butler to make movies like this. Chadwick Bosman did get his sports movie. A handful of these guys got their sports movies. But once you remove this from the menu for what you can do as a young star, you lose something pretty significant.

It's weird because the blueprint, they were still trying even in the 2000s. Josh Lucas It was like a lot of guys now. It's like, Could he be a guy? Maybe. Here's a bit. And then he wasn't.

No. He's a guy who is the voice of car commercials during football games.

Right. We have a lot of Josh Lucas's now. It seems like he's been in some good stuff. Next one, number 16, Air, the Michael Jordan shoe movie, which he's not in, directed by Affleck. It's a really good Matt Damon performance. My favorite part of this movie is the V. O. Davis performance as Jordan's mom is just great. It's just this movie is a really fun hang. You didn't like it as much as I did.

No, but I do like it. I don't think it's a bad pick here at all. I think it's really good. It is really more of a movie about the world of marketing more so than sports, like athletics. It doesn't mean that it's not a sports movie because it clearly is because you have to know what this milieu is to get the movie and get all its nuances. It's just... It can't decide to me whether it wants to be really funny or really serious. And Affleck's performance is hilarious as Phil Knight, but it's happening in a different movie than the rest of the movie where Matt Damon is giving this really sincere performance and Viola Davis is really sincere, but it is a fun watch.

They did a good job of capturing the mid '80s, even with the declarations in the office. I remember just appreciating stuff with that. You're right, Affleck won the Judd Nelson, New Jack City You're in a different movie. Number 15, Hardball, a movie that was hilarious in the theater for all the wrong reasons. When I saw it, I think with Jacko, right after 9/11, it was one of those where it was like, let's go to the theater.

It's one of the craziest things I've ever heard, though.

Yeah, let's go to the theater. We're both bummed out. But this movie is aged perfectly. We already did a rewatch. Well, it was G Baby's Death, I think, is maybe the most iconic sports movie death of any of these movies. On this list? Yeah, on any sports movie in this century.

Okay. Not like Apollo Creed?

No.

Okay.

No, Apollo dying in Rock and forth.

Brian Song. There's a few.

Although So, Apollo's death did lead to the end of the Cold War. So maybe he died. G-babe died for nothing. That's a really good point. Apollo at least had something good come out of it.

What's more tragic, G-Babe's death or the fall of the Berlin Wall?

It's dead even. This movie is very enjoyable. I also love, and I've seen it a few times, and my kids like it, that Diane Lane just being in this movie is hilarious. She can't believe she's in the movie the entire time. You have no idea why she's attracted to Keanu. John Hawks is great as a scumbag. Anyway, this is a good sports movie. Number 14, Ali, a movie we have not done on the rewatchables.

This is a great movie. It's coming.

It's on the rewatchables 2026 level. It's weird. It's a movie that could never decide what it was. It tries to basically hit why Ali was so important, but then it's compressing years together. It spends a lot of time of him trying to not be in the champ, but then all of a sudden, we skip through fights. But you weren't in two and a half hours. You couldn't cover everything. I think the first 10 minutes in the last 15 minutes of this movie are genuinely great.

I think there are several chill-inducing moments throughout the movie, and it is man trying to do something a little different than what he usually does, which I really appreciate. I have thought in the past that if man and Will Smith made a pact to make a new 90-minute Ali film every four years, you might have gotten-Oh, like a boyhood thing? Yeah, that you might have gotten a slightly better version of this movie because there are times when it seems like Smith is too old. There are times when it seems like he's too young. He's in incredible shape in the film, but he's also trying to capture somebody who's uncaptureable. It's just like the Elvis movie where it's just like, you're not Elvis, man. The icon of icon, that person who is so inimitable. But Smith is good. You've now got two Will Smith movies on your list, which is quite fascinating. I know.

This came out in 2001. I was writing for Page 2 at the time and wrote a big review about it. Ali was still so fresh. The '70s were only two and a half decades earlier than that. So it was really tough for Will Smith to compete with that. But he did feel like Ali in a couple of scenes. He had that one when he's yelling at the reporters, and he just becomes Ali. I think as the years have passed, then we have less of a memory of Ali, or at least there's new generations that don't really remember involved. That's probably better for this movie. It's really good. And it's Michael Mann, and That's why it'll be on the rewatchables this year. Number 13, Damned United.

Never seen it.

Yeah. Michael Sheen. Just an awesome soccer movie. This would be my one if you listened to anything on this list that you had I hadn't heard of. You're like, What's that one? Let me mark that down. This one's great. It's like a rags to riches English soccer movie. A Chris Ryan favorite?

I know among the soccer heads, it's a big movie. I have an allergy to the filmmaker Tom Hooper, who made The King's Speech and Les Mis and cats. And this is one of his movies.

It's a very well done movie. Number 12, Everybody Wants Some. Your guy, LinkLater. Yeah, fucking great movie. We've not done this on rewatch yet either. This is where we all bought Glenn Powell stock. We had it for basically... When was this? 2016. We had it from the beginning of The Ringer. We were like, Glenn Powell circled him.

Then he was in a rom-com. Was it 14? I think it was 14. I think it was still in the Grandland days.

One or the other. This movie's great. It's weirdly not a Dazed & Confused sequel, but operates as a Dazed & Confused sequel.

Oh, no, you're right. It's 16. It's March of '16, right before we launched.

High School to College, Dazed & Confused High School, 1976. This is around '79 to '80, I think. Really well cast. There's some really good people that went on to do some good things, including Zoe Deutz. I forget the lead guy, I don't think made it.

Yeah, Blake Jenner. He was involved in some controversies.

Yeah, this was the peak for him.

Incredible, Wyatt Russell in that movie. Wyatt Russell is outside standing as the 33-year-old guy trying to join the baseball team. Oh, yeah. That's my favorite part of the movie.

This movie's great. The wrestler number 11. Used to be number 10 until Sean reminded me Marty Supreme was eligible. This was Mickey Works, big comeback movie. Aronovsky, just killing it. It tapped into, if you liked wrestling at all, it hit this theme that was really important. I think it hit way close to home for a lot of either dead Dead Weddler families or wrestlers that were still alive or wrest that were in the business that were headed for this. Risa Tomei is great in it, but this is just an excellent sports movie.

I love this one, too. I hold this movie against the fighter a little bit, where I felt like it was using a similar tone and approach. Even though the stories are different, it felt like he was gloming on to some of Aronowski's style in this movie, but I really like it. Interesting. And Rourke is great. Rourke, he worked again a little bit more, but it wasn't the massive comeback that We were promised. He didn't make 10 award-winning films after this either. It's a great document. Also, you got to think about the shape he got himself into for this movie at the age he was. It's crazy.

The steroids, all that stuff. All right, we're into the top 10. Number 10, Miracle. We did this on the rewatchables as well. Great Kurt Russell's Speeches. This also made the 50 Most Rewatchables list. I did not like the idea of them making this movie because this was the most important sports moment of my life, not in Boston. But I thought it held up. It's a fun one to watch with the kids or people who don't know what the story was. It's an eternal movie. It'll be on 50 years from now.

I thought this would be in your top five.

Yeah. I just had someone's higher. Was it in your top five?

No, but it's up there. I mean, it's the platonic ideal of a movie that feels like came out when you were 11, even though it didn't. You know what I mean? It just gives you that feeling of sports sentimentality, emotionality, where it just hits you when the moments happen. Kerr Russell is phenomenal in the movie, too. I like it a lot.

Sugar is my number nine. This movie is just awesome. I'm not even going to tell people about it. They should just watch it.

Baseball movie.

It's a baseball movie, and there's never been a movie quite like it. It It feels like a documentary, but it's not. It's just a really unusual movie. It's really good. It came and went. I don't even think it did that well.

It was a small indie. I think it was a Sundance film. The same filmmakers who made Half Nelson and Mississippi Grind, another sports movie. They also made that movie, too. I think if you're a baseball fan and you see that there's just Latino players dominate the sport now, and you don't necessarily think about the roads that they have to travel to get to Major League Baseball. It's a really good insight into what some of them have to experience.

Number 8, Marty Supreme. Oh, no, that's number 8.

Number 8. Nice. It's a good spot.

Number 8, Marty Supreme.

Was draft day at number 8?

No. I'd bumped the wrestler from the top 10 for this. We'll see if it gets higher. Haven't spent enough time with it. I've only seen it once. It has this Chalamet performance that if you're looking at all the sports movies of this list, has to be in the running for a best one. All the actors, all The lead actors are pretty good. As I spend more time in this movie, I'm going to know whether the supporting stuff and some of the gimmicky casting stuff, I wonder how I feel about it five years from now. It was fun the first time, five years from now, and be like, Why is this person in?

I've seen it twice, and all that stuff held up perfectly well to me because I think it just makes the movie feel a little bit more real. I will say to your point about it being a sports movie, so I lean watched it the other night and I was doing something else, but I told her, call me in during the two big ping-pong matches because I want to watch them again. The last one, especially, I feel like it's just a lot of fun and really effective at this stuff that we're talking about.

Well, it's one of those sports movie lessons in general, where if you're going to do it, you have to almost be a psycho about the sports scenes. And Safty, you talked about it with him when you did the pot. He was just a psycho about ping pong. Really cared, really wanted to get every aspect of it right. And most of the movies that end up lasting as sports movies, they go the extra mile. They do. Not throwing shit together. That's why Bend It Like Beckham, which would have been on here if they had gotten the soccer stuff better than making. Anyway, go see Marty Supreme. Really good 2025 new IP Out of Nowhere movie.

Do you think that with all this consolidation in Hollywood, there will be finally an opportunity for the sports consultancy business that you've been trying to develop over the years?

But waiting forever. Waiting forever. Nobody's come. Even this one, I was waiting to have a ping pong nitpick, even though I don't know anything about ping pong, but I thought they handled everything really well.

I don't know anything about ping pong. There may be several guys on ping pong read it right now who are just like, Marty Supreme is bullshit.

Nobody has that grip.

Number 7, Warrior, did this on the rewatchables. It's weird that there haven't been more really great MMA movies when we figure MMA is 30 years old now at this point, and we've had so many box of movies, and we're still coming out with boxing movies, and we're coming out with boxing movies with Sydney Sweeney as a boxer, and yet we've had barely any MMA movies. We had the Smasher Machine this year, which did not make this list and did not make honorable mention either.

What about never Never Back Down. Was that in contention?

Who was in that one?

There have been nine of them. The original one, who wasn't the first Never Back Down?

Never Back Down sounds so familiar.

Was that this century? Is it Sean Farris? Is that the guy? Yeah, Sean If Jiam and Hansu's in it, Amber Heard. Remember this in 2008? There's also been nine sequels. You never seen these?

I probably saw it once, but in my prep, did not make it.

They're terrible, but they're entertaining.

Where has Tom Hardy and Joel Edgerton. We covered this when we did the rewatchables about it. A really crazy nick Nulte, who's just on the alcohol scale, it's like a 10 out of 10, even for him, who's played alcohol in other movies. Edgerton's really good. And Edgerton's had one of those... He's like a Matthew Stafford type career, where it's like, I just wish he'd been on more 11 and 5 and 12 and 4 teams. And then he's in Train Dreams. He's fucking incredible in that movie. And there's years where he might have won the Oscar for that. It's not going to be this year. No, it's two competitive. He's fantastic. He picked the wrong year to have that movie.

He's a guy who I've always had a little bit of an issue connecting to. But I think in this movie and in Train Dreams, he's asked to do the same thing, which is really tacitern, quiet. He doesn't have to give big emotional speeches. He doesn't have a lot of dialog. It's all about his presence and him being emotionally open but not talking. This movie would be in my top three. This is one of my favorites. I think it's amazing. I think Gavin O'Connor is a great director.

I had a lot of trouble with these last seven in the order. Just said this was really the cutoff for me. Number six, Rush. I probably like this movie the most.

You do.

Ron Howard, Chris Humsworth. I think this is the best he's ever been. Daniel Bruhl. Still have his stock somewhere. I think it's in my closet. Always like that guy. He's great.

And Glories Bastards, he's a great actor.

I wrote along, I think this might have been the last sports movie column I ever wrote was for Grantland in the end of 2014. I wrote a long piece about this movie because I loved it and I really connected with it. But it's an F1 movie. It's a movie that I think is because it's in the past, some of these movies are just timeless. This one's set in the '70s, and it's just you can just go and go forever. I love this movie. I love this movie, too. I know you don't like it as much, The Way Back.

No, I I like it. I'm on board with this. Same director as warrior. I prefer warrior to The Way Back, but it's really good. I know you love Affleck's performance in it.

I love this movie. I love the choice that they make. If you haven't seen it, sorry, I'm spoiling it. It feels like the big game is the ending and it's not, and it just goes... Which is just such a zag. But I think this is the best Afflex ever been in a movie.

It's really interesting because I feel like... Would you say that addiction and recovery movies are something that you typically enjoy?

No.

I don't feel like I hear you talk about movies like that too often.

No. There's something... I think part of the problem, this is in a Gavin O'Connor movie, by the way, and it was written by Brad Inglesby. That's a pretty good combo. Yeah, your boy. Came out right after COVID started. It was supposed to come out in the movies, I think a month after COVID, and then It just became one of the first VOD test case when the infrastructure wasn't really ready for it. It came and went a little bit, but I feel like it's having a moment again. It's always on a streamer, it's on cable, it's around. I think one of the things I liked about this one, I like sometimes the movies when the real life bleeds over into the character. I feel like Affleck was having so many issues in his own life that it just feels like there was an overlap that made it an unusual watch in a good way.

Yeah, I love that feeling when you feel like there's some reflection of the person's real life. That's a Marty Supreme thing, where it's like, Shalameh is trying to be the best, and then you can feel that in the movie. Affleck has never been nominated for an acting Oscar in his career.

And even this movie- This one's outrageous. I mean, this is actually makes you wonder, is there some weird bias against certain actors and actresses?

Well, even just they dated it for March when it came out in the same month as COVID. And it wasn't taken seriously by the to make an awards push for it. If it had come out in October, maybe everybody might have thought about it a little bit differently. But yeah, it's definitely overlooked.

Yes, so best... This was Anthony Hopkins as the father Riz Ahmed in Sound of Metal, Bozeman, Gary Oldman in Mank, your movie, and Steve Youn in Minari. Affle could have snuck in there, I feel like.

I just don't understand I understand that Anthony Hopkins went. I think the father's so overrated. I've said this a million times. I know you liked it. I didn't get it at all.

I only saw it once. I did like it. All right, Mount Rushmore, Final Four, 21st century. F1, just did on the rewatchables.

You love this. I loved it.

I loved it. You liked it more the second time. I talked to my dad. My stepmother had to go to New York for a family thing. He was by himself two days ago. He's like, I need to write a movie tonight. I was like, You should watch F1 again. He's like, I never saw F1. I was like, What? You would love F1. How have you not seen F1? Oh, my God. I was so mad. So he saw it that night. We talked the next day and he was like, F1 was awesome. He was like, I thought you were kidding. It's just, it could have been number three in my list, but I put it at four.

I'm very pro. I liked it a lot. I think it's a great popcorn movie. I always think Joe Kuzinski is so creative at how he captures these worlds that he goes into. I will say one of my challenges is that I popped it in a couple of nights ago, the 4K. 4k looks fucking incredible, by the way. I popped it in, and one of my challenges with the movie is it never really gets over the pump of the first 10 minutes for me. When he's in the NASCAR race and a whole lot of love is playing and the fireworks go off. The first time I saw it, I was like, holy shit, this is going to be the best movie of the year. This is amazing what they're doing. And that was his NASCAR, it wasn't even F1 racing. So I Because I never could get back up to my excitement around that stuff, and because I don't really know anything about F1, I don't follow it at all, I found myself a little, not disoriented because they narrate through every race what's actually happening, but I just didn't have as much connection to it.

But there's no doubt, it's amazingly well made. And Pit, just really flexing the movie star muscle in the movie.

Important Pit movie for the catalog, which we talked when we did the pot about it. Kind of needed it. This is one for the '60s. It was like his Tom braided, Tampa Bay Super Bowl, which I know meant a lot to you.

Well, it did because then I got to say it wasn't Belichick, it was braided. Then forevermore, I got to know that it wasn't Belichick. Yeah.

All right. Number three, Friday Night Lights. Did this one on rewatch. We've done all these on rewatchables. Friday Night Lights, number three. We did it last year, and I just forgot how awesome it was and also how overshattered it became by the TV show. Actually, the TV show existed. This movie would be talked about even more reverentially. It's the best high school football movie, I think, ever. I don't even know who it's competing. It's all the right moves and stuff like that. But it's the best. It's got one of the two best locker room speeches ever. It's Billy Bob in this movie and Pacino in Every Given Sunday are in the finals. It does a great sag at the end where they lose, but that's what happened in real life. Then the way it was cut in '03, where these fast cuts and it was a little hard, but now it's like that just fits into the way we watch everything these days. It actually feels a little more current than it used to.

Great cast. The rare porting over Connie Britain from the movie to the TV show. Love to see that.

I was thinking of you as I was watching the family McDonald, which you ignored my text about.

Oh, I was busy. Sorry. I haven't gotten into it, but I'm the biggest I've heard this guy around.

You were the number brothers, McDonald and guy. Yeah, I mean, Long Island. They brought the band back.

Yeah, I mean, Long Island, Irish brothers who are like hate each other but love each other. Yeah.

Surprisingly good movie. A couple of people didn't make the cut for the... I mean, John Mahoney is dead, but one of the other brothers just isn't in it.

Mcglone is there, though.

Mcglone, but the third brother is not in it. They just talk about him. He's like, he's not in the room.

Maybe I'll fire it up tonight. I don't know. Haven't seen brothers since we've fallen sober in like 40 years.

Connie was available and ready to come back. Great career for her. Number two. I thought that I had the seven. I knew what they were, and I knew what the top four was. But then the top two, I kept switching back and forth. Number two is Creed. It was number one. It was number two, it was number one, it was number two. I finally put it at two because Moneyball is number one. But I think these are the two best sports movies of the quarter century. I don't really think it's argumentable. I'll accept other arguments, but these are the two that if anyone's making a list and they're not in your top 10, it's just an invalidated list. They're important for different reasons. Creed had the degree difficulty of, Wait, you were doing this again? What's going on? Kugler, Fruitvale, that guy's going to direct. Stallone's going to be in it. What are we doing? And then it was the fucking best. And I'm so glad it happened. But just the odds of it were almost insurmountable. And then Moneyball, very similar. They're making a movie out of the Moneyball book? How the fuck are they going to do that?

And then they had 40 scripts for it. Oh, wait. Oh, Brad Pitt. Oh, I heard it's good. And then it's like, whoa, that movie is fucking awesome. You told a story when we did the 50 rewatchables about how you did a big picture blind screening and the music played up and the crowd just started applauding. So Moneyball, I think, has resonated in its own way, and so has Creed. Creed's had two sequels. But I think it's Moneyball one, Creed 2. What do you think?

Such a tricky one because we had Moneyball on our list, and that's a real shared passion for Amanda and I. She loves that movie, too. But when we rewatched Creed for the live show, I did feel like, damn, this 28-year-old kid made this movie. How old was Googler when he made that movie. And he is just able to summon that classical storytelling thing where the way you get invested in those characters that you otherwise just should have no relationship to. Because even though it's based in a world that we already know, it's a whole new layout for Adonis. And also the fight scenes are legit interesting and new and feel different. That's a huge plus in that film's because it just like, there have been so many boxing movies. You've got boxing movies on this list. Very rarely you see a boxing movie. You feel like you're seeing it a little bit differently. And I feel like he pulls that off there. Plus, MBJ, him and MBJ, just being Scorsese and De Niro for us, I think it's really exciting. The idea of getting another 30 years of these guys making movies together is really cool.

And it's obviously the second time that they work together. But it feels like them syncing up in a way that was very mainstream that a lot of people get excited about. So it's legacy. I think it's going to be real strong because Sanders isn't going to be the last time they work together. He really sees him as his guy, his avatar for his storytelling. So that makes the movie really, really powerful. Moneyball is cool. It's really fun. It's really smart. It's really insightful. It's bizarrely emotional, considering the subject matter.

But I don't know.

Just talking about Creed makes me want to watch Creed.

So you go Creed One Moneyball, too. It's a really hard one.

It's a tricky one. They're both great for different reasons. Moneyball is not a movie about getting over the pump and winning it all. It's a different film. It's more about an exploration of process and how sometimes, even if you have the right answers, you don't get an A plus on the test.

So that's why there are a couple of reasons I like them as the final two for this 25-year run, because sports movies basically start with the longest yard in 74, even though they're making them for a million years. It's the first modern sports movie. It's like 26 years of sports movies. Now you look at the final two that are left. Creed is a typical sports movie sequel, but it's not. It belongs to this new era. But Moneyball is about where sports went in the 21st century. I was thinking about that piece of it that this is a movie that just wouldn't have existed. It's almost like a jigsaw puzzle, putting it together movie, combined with capturing some movement that would go on to transform how we watched, followed, and how teams were put together, every single piece about sports. And then it's a really awesome movie. And it's accessible to people like my wife who would normally not care about it. So I feel like the degree of difficulty was probably a little bit higher, but I still can't believe how high the degree of difficulty for Creed was. So it's a good last two.

Moneyball is 100% right that it is totally sees the future about how we think about sports and how you're sighting DVOA and expected points per play. On NFL pods now, all because of that Michael Lewis book and the way that the film elevated its status among mainstream non-hardcore sports fans. But there's also so many other things that happened with Moneyball where it was supposed to be Steven Soderberg. They were really close to production. It didn't happen for whatever reason. It goes to Bennett Miller. It becomes an Aaron Sorkin script. It becomes a much more romantic and traditional movie because of the Sorkin script. I think it would have been a much more experimental and confrontational, almost documentary style. Soderberg wanted to make it like Reds, but for baseball, where he had the real people in it and there was into-camera interviews. It never would have been on this list if he had done that unless he nailed it, unless he made something we've never seen before and it worked. But it just seemed like it was a very high bar. They're both great. I think they're both incredibly worthy of number one.

Well, that's the other thing with this movie. It comes out in 2011. I was peripherally involved with that early wave of the Sloan conference, all that stuff, when people are trying to figure out how to use these new wave stats. It wasn't accessible at all. And as you just said, the movie really made it accessible in a way that it wasn't accessible before. And it saw the future of team building, even though it was about the '03 3A's. It lays down this blueprint that now seems really obvious when you watch in 2025, but it was not obvious to normal people, I don't think, in 2011. No, I mean... And then it became obvious.

Sports, baseball sportscasters who are the most crotchety old-school figures in the world have to know what OPS Plus is now because of this movie. They have to use that data to communicate with their audience that cares about the games. That's pretty profound, the way that it shifted. Obviously, the Lewis book is the most significant part of that. But without that book, this movie doesn't become a Brad Pitt level awareness thing. Yeah. Creed, though. Creed is just like the hang glider movie, though, where once it starts, you're just like, wow, I'm off the mountain for hours.

Yeah, and the same thing where it has a couple of really, really, really memorable scenes, which is the last piece of a sports movie. Am I getting chills? Do I have a couple of hook scenes that I'm always going to remember? Is it about something? You look at the last four, Moneyball, Creed, Friday Night Lights, F1, all capture something that belonged to these first 25 years, too. Friday Night Lights becomes a TV show where IP now starts to become confusing with movies and TV, and we don't know Really, what's a documentary? What's a movie? What's a TV show? It's almost like part of trying to figure out what IP is. F1 is the sport that took off this year, other than MMA, which I think started. But it took off this last 10 years in a way that no other sport did. It became this mainstream huge sport. Yeah. Creed, boxing, all the traditional sports movie recipe, but tied to this different era and the money ball tied to where sports are going. So pretty interesting top four.

Wait till my biopic of Jim Pickle, the creator of Pickleball, comes out, then you're going to have to add it to your list.

I did sports consulting. He does not want to work on that one. Pickleball is almost dead. It's like 90% gone. What's your beach, man? That's what people It's what I'm hearing on the streets.

The streets? I told you. You do walk a lot. I guess you would probably be running into ex-pickleball enthusiast.

The noise stuff is going to kill Pickleball. Oh, how much noise it makes. That's what's really happening. The neighborhoods are starting to rebel against pickleball.

What happened? Did you like... Did some guy pick a fight with you the first time you ever played pickleball? No, I just didn't like it. What happened?

I cannot like certain things.

Well, I agree, but you got to be in your bonnet on this one.

I just think people should play tennis.

Okay. All right.

Just play tennis. Run around. What if you got a bad hit? Try to get a break of sweat. Then don't play sports anymore. Just watch TV.

Then just quietly die on the couch.

Sean Fentacy, what's your best prediction for this year?

Pain.

Good ending. Thanks, Sean.

Thanks, Bill.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Schrigs and House. Thanks to Fentacy. Thanks to Gehauen and Eduardo. As always, I will be back on Sunday night live with Cousin Sal the last time we would be live on YouTube with the Sunday Night podcast. So get ready for that. Should be a fascinating week 18 with the NFL. We'll see what happens. See you on Sunday Must be 21 plus on President's Select States for a Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 Gamble or visit rg-help. Com. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg. Org/chat-in-connect. Or md-gamblinghelp. Org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp-line-ma. Org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8 Hope-Ny or text Hope-Ny in Hope, N-Y or text Hope, N-Y in New York.