Transcript of "Ray Winstone" New

Um, hey guys, it's really good to see you today.

It's so great to see you, Sean.

Good to see you too.

Thank God you made it.

Thank you. I slept really well and I feel really good today. Hopefully it looks like it.

Do you remember your dreams?

I do. I remember my dreams. I remember—

What did you dream about last night?

I remember Amanda driving on my front lawn and driving over all the flowers and the things.

All the— Yeah, swear to God. There is one really important thing impressive decor in front of your house currently that I saw a picture of.

Right. And she drove through the entire thing and said she was having a really bad day. Can I come in and talk? And I'm like, sure. I swear to God, that was my dream last night.

Really? What kind of car was she driving?

Like a real— like a small Taurus. What is that? No, like a—

Oh, that's shitty.

Well—

F you, bro.

Well, anyway, welcome to SmartLess.

SmartLess. SmartLess. Smart lettuce.

Willie, where are you?

I'm in Napa.

You're in Napa?

What are you doing in Napa? Are you drinking wine?

No, I'm here for a, uh, I'm here for a wedding.

Oh, really? Oh wait, do you have an announcement to make?

Congratulations! No, again, I don't.

So are you—

anybody we know? Are you in the wedding?

Do you have to make a speech? No, I don't have to make a speech. No, no, no.

I'm just here. I'm just a guest. I'm a plus one.

All right.

Are you a fan of weddings?

Not really, for the most part. Are you?

Yeah, I'm not.

Why? Because you have to dance?

Well, here's the thing about weddings. They're fine, but especially if it's a weekend in the summer, if you invite me, it means that you don't like me. That's the way I look at it. Why? Because you want me to take a weekend. And if it's a destination wedding, Yeah, that's an insult.

Well, did you have to go to this one?

I did. Yeah. This isn't necessary. So I'm happy to be here, and I'm happy for these people. I do like these people, so I'm happy for them.

Yeah. But you are aware, though, that they don't like you.

I can feel the vibe is not great towards me.

Shaunie, when was the last wedding you went to? Remember when we were that age? When it was wedding age and it was like it was a few a year?

Yeah, yeah. I went this summer. I went to my niece's. Remember, it was really hot in Iowa. Was it Iowa? Yeah, it was Iowa. It was really, really hot. But yeah, I can't do it. I can't do the heat anymore. It's just— I can't do anything.

Oh, it's the heat. So, but if anybody asks you to a cold destination wedding, you're in?

I'll do it. I'll go. Yeah, I'll go.

And Sean, are you a dancer?

Well, not anymore, but I mean, you know, look at this body.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you'll get on the dance floor?

He can

dance. At a party? Not really anymore, but, but, but maybe.

No, Sean, you're being— he's being modest. If I put a gummy—

if I eat a gummy, yeah.

Really? And what about you, Will? Uh, will you get on a dance floor at a party?

Yeah, sure, man.

Really?

Yeah, of course.

That'll count as your cardio.

Yeah, it's not just that. It's just like, that's part of the thing. It's fun to, to dance and be involved and enjoy yourself. And I, I think that if you don't dance— and I'm— this is pointed directly at you, JB.

Yeah.

If you're too self-conscious, it's not about you, man. Yeah. And nobody's paying attention. It's fun. Let yourself go. It's one of those things. The joys of life.

Yeah, I got deep thoughts.

You're going to be on your deathbed and you're going to have your list of regrets. By the way, your list of regrets is long.

But I'll tell you what won't be. I won't be regretful that I'm holding a lot of water weight. I'll have wooden teeth and a nice bone structure.

Every time I see— JB and I were walking to Josh's 50th birthday the other day. We're walking through the parking lot. We see this old guy come out. He's hunched over and blah, blah, blah. And literally, we're like within a foot of him. And I go, that's you.

That's you now. You know, I said in the gym yesterday or the day before, do you guys—

What is this place? No,

no. I said, because I stopped working out. Like, I have a little trainer guy that helps me, and I stopped working out, like, after, like, 35 minutes or 40 minutes, right?

Sure.

You had enough after a half hour?

Yeah. And that's been my thing recently. Like, I don't need to do, like, a whole hour of working out, you know what I mean? Like, it's almost like, remember when people used to say, you got to finish your plate? Remember we grew up like, you got to finish your plate?

Yeah, of course.

And now it's like, you feel like that, but it's like, no, that actually is the thing that makes you fat, right? Well, working out, I don't think you need to work out an hour anymore. You know, it's like you work out until you're done working out, like a half hour.

Well, let's— 35 minutes. I mean,

because

I— are you trying to get results or are you just trying to get out of there? Like,

I mean, I don't know.

Is it because you're annoyed that you're starting to sweat? And you're afraid your clothes might get sweaty. It's like, I'm getting hot. Let's get out of here. That's a problem.

That might be it. That might be it.

I already got after it this morning. I already hit those kettlebells this morning, man.

Oh, did you? What was it today? Was you just blasting quads and just everything?

Just a full body. Engage the core, JB. You got to engage the core.

You got a gym there at the hotel?

You follow my workout account on Instagram?

You know, I got locked out. Imagine if I

started to work out. Fuck me, man. I tell you.

Uh-oh.

Speaking of working out, I wish I could have worked out to be as tough as this guy. I really, really do. Because this guy— and I want to be careful because I think physically he could end me through a podcast microphone. John Cena. No, he's pound for pound the most, I think, terrifying and terrifyingly talented man in all of history. of cinema, British cinema, world cinema. Benicio del Toro. He plays a gangster so convincingly that I— and layeredly, that I legit think that he is one. And I've convinced myself, even though I know he's just an incredibly talented actor. He's a threat. He was. Can I just say this? He was a threat. Put it this way. When he was growing up, he was, pound for pound, he— I don't know, he won like 80 out of 88 boxing matches when he was a kid.

Oh, geez.

He was a London schoolboy champion, welterweight, on 3 occasions. He's been an actor for over 50 years in the most amazing films that we love. He's worked with Martin Scorsese multiple times. He's worked with the guy, JB, that we were just talking about and going over the other day, we love so much, Jonathan Glazer, most notably in the most incredible performance for me in Sexy Beast. He's reprising his role in The Gentlemen that's out now on Netflix. You guys, it's none other than Ray Winstone.

Jesus, Ray Winstone. Oh, my goodness.

Wow.

Get out of here. Here's the reveal.

There he is! Look at him!

He's got the sunglasses on.

Oh my God, look at— hey,

how you doing, guys?

Good, good.

How are you?

Well, well, Mr.

Winstone.

Hello.

Yeah, I was telling you, I was telling your technicians, um, you know, flying. I've just flown back from London to Malta. I'm working in Malta.

Really?

And every time I seem to get on an airplane— I mean, I love driving, you know. Yeah. If I have to go somewhere, I usually drive if I can, you know.

Yes.

Yeah. But— and you can take what you like. You can, you know, you can have your own bags, you can have things. You don't even have to zip them closed. Through an airport, yeah, you're told you can't take that, you know. You've got too many fluids, you've got this, you've got that. They, you know, it's like a fucking punishment. Yeah. Getting on an airplane. So worse. And then at the end of it, when you get off the other end, they give you the flu. I always have the fucking flu. You know? Do you have the flu right now? Yeah, I mean, I got it last night. We got in and I was feeling a little bit rough after they opened the door, you know, and all the smell goes out the plane and everyone's firing for position and, uh, I just come over, you know, it just come over and it just makes you never want to fly again.

Yeah, yeah, I, I totally hear you. I totally agree. I love driving. Yeah. Oh, driving is the best. Yeah, I do too.

And can I just say, JB, what a coincidence, Ray, that you're in Malta because JB has some roots.

My grandmother's from Malta. Oh, really? Yeah, I was— yeah, I went there when I was a little kid. It's really— it's a really cool place and it's got major World War II significance. Yeah, Willie?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's got the— I think it's the Victoria Cross, wasn't it, for bravery? The island?

Oh, yeah.

'Cause of where it's placed in the Med, it's a very important part of the Second World War. Not only the Second World War, but the Crusades and everything. It goes back, the history goes back a hell of a long way.

My grandfather was in the British Air Force, and he met my grandmother there. She was a local there. And then they got married, and then she got on a boat with— pregnant on a boat back to England with my mother.

And then she got the flu.

Wow. And then got the flu. Got

the flu.

Jason always says, look at his fingers, they're great for pulling up nets.

Multi-fisherman hands. Multi-fisherman hands. You gotta have a little bit of fat on the fingers so they don't get cut in the nets, you know?

Yeah. Ray, have you ever— speaking of like air— I know what you mean about air flying, flying in a plane. Have you ever witnessed, like, it does seem like it's getting worse and worse. Have you ever been on an flight where it's just like chaos and people fight. I see those videos all the time, and that's my biggest fear.

It's on that Instagram. Yeah, you get them on there. You know, I was involved on one.

Oh, come on.

Gospel truth. This is gospel truth. And I was coming out to see a film called Kneel by Mouth that we made back in the day. Gary Oldman directed it, you know. I love it. And we was on an Air India flight Okay? Because it was the last flight you could get you can actually have a cigarette on, you know? Yeah. And, um, we were sitting there and this— and an Irish kid joined us. He said, could I come and sit down with you there and have a drink? I said, yeah, okay. We had a spare seat, he come and sat down. And there was a couple of kids opposite him sitting there. And, uh, during the flight the Irishman got very, very drunk, bless him. Yeah. You know? Yes. Shocker. And I went to the toilet and when I was on my way back He was fighting the other 2 kids across from us. No way. He lost the plot. Yeah, he completely lost the plot. And so I've, I've got hold of him and my other mates grabbed hold of the other 2 and we parted them and we got him down and said, now behave yourself, calm down.

Anyway, they took him away on the plane and put him in a jacket up the front.

No way.

That's crazy. And we were like treated like heroes because we saved the flight and then, yeah, free drinks.

And they didn't do an emergency landing?

No, no, we landed in New York, and when we got off in New York, I got arrested.

Did you?

No,

I got taken to the naughty boys room. Yeah, I know, you know, and I was actually put on the flight back to London.

No

way. Yeah, yeah.

No way.

When's the last time you got in a fistfight, Ray?

Uh, it's quite a few years ago now.

Yeah,

yeah. I did say to a kid on a, on a train once who was misbehaving, he was It was on one of our train systems out from Hertfordshire. And I said, listen, kid, I haven't had a fight for 10 years. I said, but for you, I will make a comeback.

Yeah, that would scare the shit out of me.

Jeez, man.

As you're taking your jacket off.

Uh, you don't get time to take your jacket off. You just gotta go. But I'm too old. I mean, I don't want to be rolling about in the mud, the blood, and the beer anymore, you know.

No, no, no. You know, Ray, I was going to say that, you know, we have a friend of ours who's been on the podcast, an old friend of mine. He's a retired professional ice hockey player. Oh, Christ. Great guy. Brendan Shanahan. Tough, tough guy. He holds the record for what they— a stat they called the Gordie Howe hat trick. Gordie Howe was a legendary hockey player. And the Gordie Howe hat trick means in a game you get an assist, a goal, and a fight. Right? And so he holds the record for the most Gordie Howe hat tricks. Brendan Shanahan.

My God, they're tough guys. They are tough guys.

Yeah. So he retired years ago. He's our age. He retired years ago. We're good friends. And he called. About a few months after he retired, he called me one day. It was kind of a Wednesday afternoon. He seemed kind of down and out. And I said, what's going on, Shannon? You okay? And he goes, nah, I don't know. He said, it just occurred to me that I'm probably never gonna fight again. And I said, listen, you're 42. You shouldn't be fighting anyway.

That's crazy.

It's probably true, you know?

I've always wished to be in a fight. Like, I'd never been in a fight, but in my brain, I'd be really good. But then I don't know, like, if it would actually happen, I don't know what I would do. Sure. You know how you're like, if I got robbed or something, I'd know exactly what to do because I've seen so many movies. But I don't know.

Yeah, it ends up on the ground pretty quick, doesn't it, Ray?

Yeah, it's first one in. Right. You know, and if you are the first one in and you get it wrong, you are in trouble.

Yeah.

And, Sean, let me tell you, you know, It may be in your head, but you really don't wanna do it. Yeah. Just leave it alone. Not now, yeah.

I did hear that the key— yeah, the key is to hit first and just don't stop, right?

Yeah, then run. Yeah, run. If they're not gonna die, run.

Most guys I know who are good fighters, who are tough guys, don't wanna get into a fight. Like, they do everything they can to avoid it. They sort of— that's the guy you're worried— the guy who's kinda like, yeah, let's go, let's go. No, it's the guy who says, fuck it. Nah, let's not. Nah, let's not. That's the guy I'm worried about.

Very true, Will.

Yeah,

I wouldn't be good.

No, no, no.

All right, so you're in Malta. You're about to start work. How do you like working away from home? Do you like this travel?

My wife loves it because she gets rid of me for a couple of months.

She doesn't come with you? Like, Malta seems like a good spot.

Yeah, she's here now, to be fair. The first 4 weeks, I was here on my own. you know, we've got a 94-year-old mum, you know, at home, so she needs looking after and she can't travel. So there's all that kind of stuff going on. But thank God we've got a big enough family we can kind of get on with that, you know. But I've always traveled with the family, you know. When the kids were younger, if I was working in the States or I was working in Europe, you take the kids with you and it's the greatest education in the world with them, you know. They meet people from all over the world.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Yeah, it's really cool.

Yeah. Do you, do you, um, you've got, uh How many kids do you got? You've got a few daughters, is that right, Ray?

I've got 3 daughters, yeah. I've got grandsons as well, so, you know, it's kind of balanced itself out. I mean, I don't know about you guys, if you've got kids. He's got daughters. Yeah.

I've got 3 boys. Jason's got 2 girls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I can't— I'm looking forward to being a grandfather because I was sort of— I'm looking forward to that infant stage again. Yeah. Because the first time around, I was just like, yeah, well, it's kind of okay.

You're just trying to get through it.

Yeah. But now in retrospect, I know how great it was once they started walking and talking, um, was really kind of cool, like after like 12 months. But now I'm like, no, I bet you there's some— there's something more in those 12 months that I, I need another, another crack at. So I, I can't—

You know what, Jase, though? You know, the thing is, when we were— when we had our kids, yeah, we were working.

Yeah.

And so it was true, you know, we missed a lot of that.

Yeah, yeah.

Missed a lot of them kids, right? That's them times, you know. And The thing about having a grandson, we can kind of sit back a little bit now. You know, we've done what we've had to do. And you've got time now with him. So it's kind of saying sorry, you know, in a way, but now I've got him. And when he gets on your nerves or she gets on your nerves, you can give her back.

Give her back.

Yeah, that's so nice. Yeah, my dad had that.

Go ahead, Shauny.

I was gonna say my dad had that philosophy when I was 5.

Just give them back.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Put your dent in it. What are you doing there in Malta? You said you spent— you've already done 4 weeks on it.

Yeah, we're doing a show called Danger Money for Amazon.

Yeah?

Oh, great.

Yeah, it's about an old SAS guy. You know all these films where you got men my age jumping out of bushes and karate chopping people and shooting everyone and— I mean, they're fabulous to watch. I love them. But we're kind of taking it the other way a bit. I mean, he's, he's an old boy who thinks, like Sean was saying, in his head he can still do it, you know?

Right, right.

And, uh, and he can to a certain degree, but it hurts. Yeah. You know, we suffer with rheumatism, you know, and we, you know, and that's— we get shingles and things like that. Shit like that. Yeah. I've just got over shingles, you know.

Oh my God, really?

You didn't get the vaccine? That's tough. You didn't get the vaccine?

No, no, I was, I was due to have it, but what happened with me was I stopped drinking about 2 and a half years ago. Yeah. And one day I just went, do you know what, I'm really fed up with this. I'm not enjoying it anymore. Okay, I'm telling the same stories, I'm talking about absolute bollocks. I need just to have a little break from this. So I stopped drinking and I started training.

Good for you.

Doing a bit of your stuff, Will, getting myself fit. on— not running, but on the walking machine, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I got me— so I lost 2 and a half stone. I felt fighting fit again, thought I'd throw a couple of right-handers. And then I got fucking shingles.

Oh God.

Yeah. The worst. By stopping drinking, looking after myself, stopped smoking, all the shit got rid of out of my life. Yeah. And then I fell ill with shingles. Well, if you've ever had it, it's the worst. Oh yeah.

Now why? What is it? What is it? What's this? What's the symptoms of shingles? Painful, right?

Is it— it's a— it's

Well, you feel like you've got a red-hot poker being stuck through your back, right? Yeah, you get lesions come up. Uh-huh. And my mother-in-law, Mum, 94, said to me, Raymond, I had it once around the midriff. She said, is it going all the way around your body? And I said, no, Mum, it's, it's not. It's only halfway, you know, across the back. She said, it's good. I said, why? What happens when it goes around all the way around? She said, you die.

Oh, geez. Thank you. Geez.

Yes, that's what—

Oh, my God.

Yes. Merry Christmas.

Yeah.

Absolutely brutal.

What's the treatment for it? Do they have—

You get some cream. You get cream for the lesions and all that sort of stuff. But it don't go away.

And how long did you have it?

It still creeps back on you. Well, since November, It kind of settled down in February when I started working because you had other things to think about.

Yeah.

And when I finished work, it came on again. Started another job, it went away. And now I'm— I was just feeling a bit in my back. Yeah, it's actually quite a while.

Yeah, maybe start drinking a little bit more, dude.

Yeah, maybe you need to pick up a few more chains.

I'm going out tonight for— I'm going out tonight for a meal and I'm going to do a bottle of red wine. There you go.

There you go.

Yeah, fuck it, why not, you know? I mean, God, the cigs are tough to give up, aren't they, man? I've just— that's been—

Yeah, you know, you know what I've done though? I got rid of the cigarettes. That was all right because all I do with that is I've got something to do with me hands, you know? Yeah, I'm not stealing anything when I've got a cigarette in me hand, so yeah, that's fine. But then I started smoking little cigars.

Yeah.

And the trouble with little cigars is you forget you're smoking a cigar and not a cigarette, and you take it down like a fucking cigarette.

Cigars, man.

We'll be right back.

And now back to the show.

Ray, I wanted to get back into— we talked about it and all this sort of fighting and boxing and stuff, but you did legit. You started— you were boxing before you were acting. Yeah. And I'm interested how you made that— well, first of all, how the I think your dad boxed a little bit too. Is that, is that right?

Yeah, listen, where, where we came from, I'm sure it's the same in New York, you know, around the Bronx and all that, as it is in Liverpool, Manchester, Coventry, you know, in, in England. And, uh, kids from a certain manner, you know, I lived near the docks, so you kind of— your sport was boxing, you know. Yeah. Where if you went to North London, it's probably more football, you know. And other sports. But so we boxed. And I guess it was a way— it goes back generational because you've got to learn to survive and you, you learn how to fight. Or what boxing actually teaches you is how to avoid it, actually. Uh-huh. Because you, you get an instinct for it. You get an instinct for where trouble's going to be. And, and you know how to conduct yourself. You know how to maneuver yourself away from those situations, you know. So really it was a, it was a great education in that way. Not only that, a boxing club— the great thing about boxing clubs is you get kids from all walks of life, you know, different, different religions, different color, you know, different beliefs.

But at a boxing club, it's all forgotten about. It's just pushed away. And yeah, you kind of get the feeling if the world was run like that, we wouldn't have any problems, you know. Yeah, right. We never had any problems at boxing clubs, you know.

And well, so, so then, so you're doing that and And then what's the thing that you go— what was the first— what gave you that first sort of inclination to start performing, acting? Like, was there one particular thing?

Well, I'd kind of done— I'd done a school— I went into a school play when I was about— I guess I was about 14 years of age. There was a girl in the play that I kind of fancied, you know. She was quite lovely. Yeah. And yeah, it's always the way, innit, boys? Let's face it. You go into a certain thing because You see someone and you think, oh, you know. I never thought about it before. I loved going to the cinema, loved watching films, you know. I used to go with my dad every Wednesday. He'd come home from the market and he'd pick me up and, you know, in the afternoon we'd go and watch a film. And always, you know. So, and I'd done this play called Emmy and the Detectives and I played the paperboy, you know, read all about it. Yeah. And I got a few laughs, you know what I'm saying. And I think my mum and dad saw that because I was a bit of a kid on the streets, you know. And they thought, you know, he's got something here, this kid, you know. And they put me and paid for it when, you know, money was— it was £900 a term.

And in those days, it was back in the '70s, it was a lot of money. Yeah. 3 terms a year. And my mum and dad were only working people, you know. And I think it was a way of keeping me off the streets, although I had the boxing club, which kind of done that. But, but to give me some, some another outlook on life in a way, because again, it was a place you met kids from all over the world, and you know, it was a great education in that way, you know.

Did you have brothers or sisters that were, uh, that were running around, um, uh, doing something similar?

My, my sister Laura, she's my youngest sister. Yeah, she's probably more talented than I am. I would, I would say so, but she never went into that. She's a mum, you know. She's got 3— she's got the 3 boys. And, uh, we're still, we're still very close. She lives down the road from me in London, you know, in Essex. And, uh, so yeah.

And when you would go with your dad to the cinema as a kid, do you remember, like, was there a film that you're like, oh my God, this changed my life?

Yeah, what was some of the early things?

Listen, we used to, we used to go and watch 633 Squadron, Beckett, you know, it was Peter O'Toole and Richard Burton. That was the films at the time. And you had You had the kitchen sink dramas coming through in the '60s, you know. Uh-huh.

Right.

I look back at Anger and Saturday Night, Sunday Morning. They were really stories about people from where we came from. All of a sudden we weren't just watching American movies or movies about the aristocracy. We were actually watching films about where we came from. You know, this is a great film. Saturday Night, Sunday Morning. Black and white movie. Albert Finney. and Rachel Roberts.

I love Albert Finney.

And, you know, it's about a working man in a northern town, but you, even as a Londoner, you can relate to it. Yeah. And it kind of opened the doors to say, you know, maybe I, I could be in something like that. Maybe I've got a voice about the social things that go on in my country, you know. And that's, I think, what interested me in films in the first place. Films like Kneel by My House, Films like Scum, they're all about how we live socially. And I think that's what kind of gave me the bug for it.

Yeah. Well, when you see these stories that aren't— like you said, they're not about aristocracy or all these— or American, they feel much more relatable in a way. And you think like, yeah, I could do— I could get into that.

You know, I remember watching The Raging Bull with my mate, me and my mate Tony Yates. We used to box together at the Repton Club. And any boxing film that was out, we'd have it, you know, we'd be there, you know. And although The Raging Bull is a boxing film, and it's probably one of the greatest films you could ever go and watch, you know, cinematically or in any other way, the way it's shot, the way it's acted, it's brilliant, you know.

Yeah.

But you kind of realize, I mean, after— I, I know I've been in films in London where they're saying, we've got to subtitle it, you know, for the American audience. And I went, why? You know, the thing about film is if you watch it, the first 5 minutes of a foreign film, you— if it's a good film, you'll start to understand it. Right. And you'll hear it. You'll hear it in your ear, you know. Uh, The Raging Bull, when they start talking in there, within 5 minutes you're tuned into it.

Yeah.

And you realize it's not just a— it's not a film about boxing, actually. It's about a film— it's a film about the way people live You know?

Yeah.

And it's, uh, you know, and that's what makes a great film.

Yeah.

You know, you can put a subject matter around it, you can put that in there. Sexy Beast is a, it's a love story. It's not against the movie. Yeah. It's a love story, you know. And that's kind of what you gotta get the vibe of great films, you know. That's what it should be.

I was gonna say that, Ray. I was gonna— and we were sort of jumping ahead to Sexy Beast, but I was gonna say Your performance in Sexy Beast, it's not a gangster film. It's not a mobster film. It is a— I mean, it's everything. It's a love story, and it's also this guy, Gal, he's studying with— not struggling with, but he's kind of— he's lived 2 lives, and now he's in this other part of his life, and he's sort of got to reconcile with his past. And if he can't put it to bed, then he can't continue in this new life. that he's finally achieved and all of this stuff. And it's a— I find it a— I've long maintained that that film should be shown at film school. You could just show that one semester and say, that's it. Just look at this film once every day.

He's a clever boy, Johnny. I mean, it was his first film as well to make. I mean, he's a very clever man. But that film for me is, you know, I mean, Don Logue's the nightmare comes into town. Yeah. But we know he's coming. But for me it also— because we never made up our mind who was doing what and what was anyone thinking about it. We just all let the audience do that, you know. But for me it was always— I think deep down inside Gary really wanted to do the robbery. He wanted to do the blank because that's in his blood, you know.

Yeah.

It's in his blood. And I think that the, the thing that kind of got in the way a bit was the love for Dee. because he has to protect her. So his excuse is, I'll do the robbery because I know I'm actually protecting Dee by doing the robbery. Bullshit. Yeah. I think, you know, when you're a good thief, when you're a good robber— I grew up with a really good mate of mine, Danny Jones. He won't mind me calling him by his name. We sat together at school, we grew up together, and he was one of the Hatton Garden old men. who'd done the robbery.

Wow.

He's actually just come out of prison again, you know. Oh wow. And I know Danny's story from being a kid, you know. Um, this family were hungry, you know, and the only way out was to go and do it. I'm not making excuses for him. He's a thief, you know. You get caught, you go to prison. That's it. But, you know, there's a mentality behind them, you know. You, you do something for a purpose, to feed someone, to feed your family. And then you kind of fall in love with doing it. And it's— the challenge is finding a way into that building without getting caught and getting out with the prize.

Yeah.

You know? Bruce Reynolds, who was a great train robber, I— you'd sit there, you'd sit there and have, um, a glass of red wine with Bruce, and Bruce would talk to you like that. He was talking like that. Lovely glasses he used to wear. But while he was talking to you, he'd be, he'd be looking at the room, what we call casing the joint. Right. You probably still do it. You'd probably call it that in America, you know. Casing the joint is he has to work out a way. It doesn't matter if he's sitting in your front room, he has to work out a way how you get in that room and out of that room without getting caught. Yeah. And it's, it's quite fascinating, you know. And that's what Gary is. That's what Garry is in a sense. I

was in college. I got arrested for stealing a turkey sandwich.

No.

Oh, man. You bastard.

Yeah. What kind of time did you do for that?

I had to go to— A turkey sandwich?

A turkey sandwich. I was hungry, like you said. I was starving. And I got arrested. And I went to the jail, and I had to get a friend to give me $100 to get out. I was 18, 17.

Now you know who your friends are. You see that? Sounds like you didn't case the joint, man. Yeah, I didn't case it.

I didn't case it.

You know, how was the turkey, by the way? Was it fresh? They took it out of the refrigerator.

They actually took it out of my hands. I was throwing the tomatoes out of them and the cops drove by and saw me throwing tomatoes because I don't like tomatoes on the sandwich. Yeah.

And if you had eaten the tomatoes, you would have got away with it.

Probably.

Yeah. Look at this.

There you go.

Yeah. The guy stood right—

the cop stood right in front of me. I talked about— I told this story already, but the cop stood right in front of me and I was so drunk and I looked up. I was like, what's, you know, what's up? And he's like, Well, we saw you steal that turkey sandwich because they had surveillance in the back, right? And, um, I was like, okay. So they put me in the car and then I do the drunk guy thing. I'm like, there's not enough other bad stuff going on campus, you gotta arrest the guy stealing the turkey sandwich? Like I was giving them lip. But like, you know, anyway, it's a non-story. But—

Sean, if you do that 3 times, you steal 3 turkey sandwiches, you know, in different days, Is that 3 strikes and out in America? You can go away for 30 years or something?

Good question. Good question.

Hey, Ray, when you started to get some, um, you know, when you kind of made a commitment to really pursue the acting stuff, you know, I would imagine there in England, there's a big culture for classically trained acting and theater and Shakespeare, et cetera, et cetera. Did you subscribe to that? Were you excited to explore that? Have you ever gone into that? Because it seems very much at odds with your working-class roots, maybe.

Yeah. You know, the biggest problem when I started was me, really, Jace. To be perfectly honest with you, I never felt like I should— me personally, that I should be in the arts. Me in the arts? What have I got? to do with the arts, you know. And so I kind of put that on myself without anyone doing it to me, you know. So I was— I wouldn't call myself an angry young man because that makes you sound like you're a rebel without a cause and all that cobblers, you know. Right. It wasn't that so much. It was that people had different conversations than I would have. You know, I'd be talking about something completely different to what they were on. You know, they'd be talking about the theater and how lovely, what a performance, and I'd be talking about a football match or, you know, Exactly. That's what I mean. That was me, you know. And so I kind of didn't really fit in. And I didn't really try to fit in, you know. It was okay. It was— and I was quite happy with myself with that, you know.

Sure. And your talent, your quality, your technique, or what I so love about you is that authenticity. And I never catch you acting. It just seems like you're just so natural and comfortable with it. Where did that come from? It sounds like it did not come from classical training that you kind of deconstructed and kind of made your own. You're just natural with it, yeah?

Well, I just had my own ideas, you know. And I remember doing a— you might have heard this story, I don't know. I don't mean to bore you, right? No, no, not at all. They used to do a lambda exam at college, you know, lambda exam. I mean, I thought to myself, what does that mean? If you get 10 out of 10 for the Lambert exam, does that get you a job? Right. I don't know, you know. Why would you take a fucking exam to be an actor?

Right, right. I've said that my whole life.

Surely you put a camera there and go and act, son. Are you any good or what? You know. Yeah, right. But we had to do this speech, was, um, Julius Caesar, you know. Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home? What tributaries follow him to Rome? And, and all that. And I see all these people doing the same thing, you know. Doing it very well. Yeah. You know, it was good, you know. And I just, I got this knack with Shakespeare, you know. Everyone writes books about what it means, but, you know, and I, I did a, uh, a, a play for TV set in Birmingham on an estate about Macbeth. And I, you know, I played the king. And I just had my own ideas about what to be or not to be means, you know, to be a Not to be— to be something or to be nothing. I don't know. Fuck. You know. And so I set this in a pub, this scene. Yeah. And it's about a geezer who actually is, you know, prayed— all the people around the man who have all gone, you know, we love this guy. And all of a sudden he gets done in.

And the new guy comes in and they all cheer for him. And that's what the scene's about. And I'd done it. And I got zero. Right? I'm not saying I've done it well, but I didn't even get one for imagination, you know, just trying to change it. And, you know, and I thought, there's 2 ways you can go there. There's 2 ways. You can either say, well, you know, maybe I'm not supposed to be in this business, you know, or you can go, fuck off.

Right.

I ain't having it. And I think where the boxing and all that comes in, when, you know, best form of defense is attack.

Yeah.

You know, when it's on you, you've got to step forward. So that was kind of my mentality, and it was probably a lucky day when that happened, you know. Just that thing of thinking— I'm a great believer if you don't know the rules, then you break them. And that's when you invent something. That's when you start doing something that's hopefully original. It's not always good and it doesn't always work, but when it does work it's fucking good, you know?

Yeah,

yeah. And that's kind of my mentality about it, you know? I mean, I've watched stuff I've done and thought I was— when I was doing it, I thought I was really good. I was really good today. And I've seen it back and it's terrible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. How do you get away with it? How'd you get away with it?

You know? Who was the first person that you worked with, actor, director, whoever it was, that you were like, holy shit, I think I'm in there now. Like, I think I've, quote unquote, made it?

Well, there's 2 I can go to, really. Alan Clarke was the first one. I'd done a film called Scum. And I wasn't an actor at the time, you know. He kind of found me and he taught me on set, you know, by manipulation, by finding senses in me. And he knew how to upset me. He knew how to calm me down. He knew how to give me a cuddle and all that. that sort of stuff. So, and the lucky thing for me was when I've worked with a director that's not so good, I can kind of call on that myself now. Yeah, yeah. You know, I kind of understand where that is. But it can also get in the way sometimes because you feel every part and every film you do, you have to play it real. It has to be spot on, you know. And it really fucks you about sometimes because the genre might be slightly different, you know, and you get that wrong. The other one, I think the best director for an actor I've ever worked with is Gary Oldman, really.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Really? I'll bet.

Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. I mean, it's so— that's from an actor's point of view, you know? So, yeah.

We'll be right back. And back to the show.

What was it like standing across from Ben Kingsley, watching him do that performance? Did you have any warning about the way he was going to be playing that character? Or did you— like, was there rehearsals? Was there a table read? Or was it just right there on the first day, you're standing there in front of that just machine gun of talent?

Yeah, 'cause that dynamic between you two was just electric. Yeah,

it was— I'll tell you a little thing, right? When we— when Sexy Beast come about, there was 3 films. It was Gangster Number One, Sexy Beast, and 44-Inch Chest. And I was supposed to do the 3 of them. Gangster Number One had a falling out with the producers and all that, so we couldn't do that. I had a choice of doing that or doing Sexy Beast, so I'd done Sexy Beast. But I was gonna play Don.

Oh wow.

I had the part of Don. I said Do you know what? I want to play Gary. I said, I don't— I, I've done Don, right? Can't fucking elsewhere. He's fucking, you know, he's a fucking nut and he just swats, right? And that's fine, I can do that standing on my head. But yeah, you know, Gary's the lover, he's the man. And the words are so beautiful in Sexy Beast, they're words you want to say, you know. Mm-hmm. You don't have to change a word. If you change a word, it doesn't work. You have to say the words that were on the page. That's very unusual, you know. So when Don was— I heard that Don was going to get played by Ben, who I absolutely love to death, I've got to tell you. But I thought, fucking hell, I've got Gandhi coming in, you know. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, better tighten up.

I've got to stand there and Gandhi's got to bully me. Oh, well, don't know how that's going to happen, you know. Fucking hell. All right, okay. But then he doesn't turn up because he's locked in on this other film. So we're in Spain shooting around him, you know, all the scenes about him coming. It's a bit like Jaws. You're waiting to see the shark, you know. And then he turns up and you know the rest.

Yeah.

Phenomenal. Absolutely. What he done with that character. There's people that you meet in your life that become very hard work to talk to. In fact, you're frightened to ask them a question. You know, how you been today? All right. Why? What do you want to know? That kind of— Right. You know, and we've all met people like that, you know. And you think they're fucking hard work. That's Don, but a million times more, you know. And I thought he was stunning in it, you know?

Yeah. Oh, incredible. Did you have, um, did you have a sense of, of, of the kind of director that Jonathan Glazer was, was, was about to become?

Yeah, I, I think as an artist, yeah, because we'd seen his commercials. He told you a story in 30 seconds. Yeah. The thing was, can he tell you a story in an hour and a half, 2 hours? That's the big thing. Stretch it out. the way he films and shoots something, we know it's going to be beautiful, you know. He's going to get it right. He's a genius. But how's he going to be with actors? Yeah. How's he going to be able to talk to us, you know, and sit us down and suss us out?

And how was that?

Within a week. Yeah, within a week he got that.

Yeah. Wow. He got it. His very first movie.

Yeah. And it was his first film. Yeah. You know, feature film.

Yeah.

Um, I think we had a lot of respect for him anyway. You know? Yeah, sure. So it was quite easy for him, you know? Yeah. The casting was great.

Yeah.

Casting was amazing. But as you know, like, with filming, you know, the tone is so important, right? And maintaining that tone consistently. Absolutely. Yeah. And especially in that film when you've got you and Ben and this incredible cast and keeping it in such a specific tone. And it either floats or it doesn't, you know?

Yeah. Do you know— do you know, it's a really good point. It's a good point, Will, because I kind of— it takes me back now. I kind of remember, because, because Don's was, do it, do it, do it. He had a pace about him and he had a turn on him, you know. And I remember thinking to myself, I'm not going to get into that rhythm. I think I'm talking on the offbeat. So if you both start talking at the same beat, if you like, like Shakespeare. Yeah, you know, if they do Shakespeare and it's, now is the winter of our discontent, everyone starts talking the same. It's like a poem. Yeah, you know, it's not like people talking. So I felt to make it kind of work, I've got to make mine the reality, and he's surreal.

Sure.

You know, and I like to think that everything that's going on is in my head, you know. with the rabbit and all that. It's the nightmare. Don turning up. This— it's like you're having a nightmare and then you're waking up to this fucking hell, you know? And so the way you talk, you can't put it on the same rhythm as him. You've got to have your own rhythm.

Yeah.

You know, and it disjoints it a bit, you know? Yeah, of course. I can't, Don. I can't.

But it became— yeah, like it became its own rhythm. The off-rhythm became its own rhythm. Yeah. And do you think— it occurs to me that, you know, you worked for a long time, you made a lot of films and a lot of TV shows, et cetera, before Sexy Beast, which was, I think, in 2000. And then I think it was almost one of those things, when that film comes out, everybody goes, hey, we've been sleeping on Ray Winstone. This guy is a heavyweight. And all of a sudden, you go on a run and you make a lot of films and you— You know, within a couple of years, you're working with Martin Scorsese, which you did a few times. Was that a— you know, when you made that film and you come out of that and the reception that Sexy Beast gets, is it one of those things like— and when everybody goes, hey, all of a sudden, in a way, it's a rediscovery of you, and you're like, yeah, I've been here all along. I know what I'm doing, you know?

Yeah, there is. But, you know, I don't know about you guys, but I kind of went through a few years where Well, I just kind of fell out of love with it all. And then maybe that was to do with— because I was enjoying myself too much, you know. I was having a party. Right. You know, and I loved life and I loved being there. The kind of the work always has come second, to be honest with you. You know, that's the work. It's what you do for a living, you know. But what comes with that, you know? Oh, you jet off to New Zealand, you do this, and you go to a nice restaurant, you have a bit of manjare. It's lovely. You know. So the work even to this day is still secondary. It's there for a purpose. You get to 70 years of age, you look back, you go, yeah, I ain't doing it now because I fucking love it. You know. I'm doing it now because I gotta. I gotta go to work. You know. This is what we do. And if I don't go to work, I'll probably die. Right.

But there was a time where I kind of, you know, I let it go. And the actual work suffered. You know, the quality of what I was doing I felt had suffered. And I thought to myself, you know, I don't really want to do this anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, because I'm not enjoying it and I'm not enjoying being here. I'm not enjoying, you know, drinking all the time. I'm not enjoying being down the pub and caning it with everyone else. I don't want to do that no more. So, and then you know what? And then you go and make a little British film, you know, which I've just done, you know, Going Under. 4 and a half weeks it took to film a major motion picture and loved every minute of it. And then all of a sudden you go, oh, well, that's what it's really all about. Yeah, right, right, right.

You know?

It's going to work. Everyone— you love everyone at work and it's quality.

Speaking about work though, I mean, sorry to ask such a pedestrian question, but like, you know, what did you do before? Like, was there any really weird job growing up that you were like, like doing it to make ends meet before you made some money acting?

Yeah, I mean, when, when you was a kid, my, my dad worked in, you know, all my uncles were either meat— worked in the meat market, fruit market, or the fish market, you know. Most of them anyway, dads and uncles and that. So we never went hungry, you know, there was always plenty of spillage going on, you know. Right, right. So there'd always be cartons of booze turning up and everyone was at it. It's 12 years after the Second World You know. Yeah. So everyone was on it, you know. So, and that's— you kind of learn to survive. And the only way you learn to survive is not sitting on your ass indoors. You go out and get something, whatever that is, you know. And so I've always been a good grafter, you know. I've always been up there. When I worked in, you know, Spitalfields Market when I was 14, you know, pulling barrows, that's what we've done, you know. Got it. And then we'd be out and about ducking and diving. That's fine. That's blinding. But I've seen that world and I've seen— I've been lucky enough to go to places in the world where you wouldn't go on holiday.

You go there because you're working or you're filming there, you know. And you meet people in these countries that are from these countries. You fall in love with them, you know. Yeah, yeah. And it's such an education. You know, I couldn't read when I was 11, you know.

Wow.

But through reading scripts, I can read now, just about. You know, I can read now. You You know. know, so, you know, what the business has done for me, if anything, it's educated me, you know?

Right. Has it, has it, has it, has all your success and all this luxury stuff, has it made you soft at all? Yeah,

I hope so. I really hope so.

No, I mean, like, do you think you could manage in the rough-and-scrabble sort of world that you started in? Do you go back there a lot, or are you still there? there.

Yeah. I mean, as I said, most of my friends come from where I was growing up, you know, and they still are, you know. And some of them, some, what, some of them was, some are cab drivers, you know, some work as porters or were in the fish market, you know. I got, that's what my mates do. And the beauty of that is when I finish work and I meet them for a drink, no one fucking talks about this business. Yeah. They might say I've seen a really good film. Should they film the I tell him, yeah, boss, boss, boss. You have a little rabbit about that, you know. But we talk about other things, you know.

Right.

Yeah, right. And it's great. You know, we don't sit down having a cigar saying, did you see that wonderful play last week?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know nothing wrong with that, but you know, at the same time, fuck me, that's not for me, you know.

Yeah.

Are you— you're a big, uh, you're a big West Ham fan, uh, supporter, is that right? Yeah. The Hammers. The Hammers. So, going on a bit of a tough run, they got relegated to the Championship for Tracy. We always say Sean's sister is Tracy, and then we always let her know, in case she doesn't know the reference, West Ham were a Premier League team that got relegated this year to the 2nd division, which is oddly enough called the Championship. It's misnamed. But I'm a big Liverpool supporter, you should know. But I feel your pain. I feel your pain.

You know, Will, there's a lot in common. with West Ham and Liverpool because they're both dock teams, you know, come out from around the docks and, you know, working-class people. And there's always been that kind of respect between West Ham and Liverpool in that way, funny enough.

Yeah. So wait, so West Ham's in the same division with, uh, with Rob's team, right? With Wrexham now. With Wrexham.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

What do you think about that? What do you think about Wrexham, how they've made this, this jump? What, once a year they're, they're, they're moving up a division, right?

Fantastic, innit? And you know what, it's livened it up a little bit. bit and all. They've done a good job there, the boys. Yeah, they really have, right? You know, and what they've done, they've brought the whole town together as well. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's not just about the football, it's about the community in that area. What they've done, it's quite a fantastic job.

All power to them.

Yeah, it's good, it's good. They're good guys. Rob, Rob is a good friend.

See, that's what football— football was originally that, you know. And you supported the team where you lived, where you were bred and born, where you came from. It's your manor. Right? And that's West Ham. I come out of West Ham, right? So that's why I support West Ham. For me, you know, you come out of Liverpool, you support Liverpool. Now it's such a modern game. Yeah. You know, it's about the players that play there for a short while that someone will support Manchester City, someone will put— support Liverpool or Manchester United, and they don't come from there. You know, it's kind of strange, that kind of, that kind of vibe. You know, I can understand it if you're watching it in America and you come from America. And then you like soccer, and then I can understand why you'd pick a team like Liverpool, you know? And that's me being nice, Will.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I come by it naturally because my good friend Chappie, he's been a Liverpool supporter forever. So I just kind of went with him because I didn't know much about it. Yeah, well, listen up.

You got to watch his back.

Before we let you go, Ray, because you've been so generous with your time, I wanted to ask you about— it now occurs to me, you mentioned watching Raging Bull. And really appreciating it as a film at the time and understanding that it's not just a boxing film, it's so much. And then you find yourself years later working with Martin Scorsese. Was that a surreal experience for you the first time you worked with him?

That's like playing in the cup final, Will.

Yeah.

You know, if— for me anyway, for the films that I grew up watching and watching his films from Mean Streets and all that, Johnny Fingers, all them films, the early ones that were kind of— he was kind of connected to with, with, uh, with the guys. And all the way through, to make an actual gangster film by Scorsese.

Yeah.

You know, was a bit of a blast for me.

Yeah.

Real blast, you know. And you kind of feel like you've reached the pinnacle there, you know, a little bit, you know. I mean, my— I was up for to play one of the policemen, you know. in it. And, uh, I went to see him at the Dorchester and I just said, I can't play a cop, I can't play a policeman, you know. I've got to be in a Marty Scorsese film, I've got to be a gangster. I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And we had a, we had a good chat, Marty. He's a very funny guy, a very nice man. And, um, I said, can't I play Mr. French? And he said, but Mr. French don't say anything. I said, well, that's how you find out about the guy, the gangster, because he's gotta have a mate, you know. I said, I'll just rabbit on around, you know, I'll just talk while they're doing their bits and all that. And he said, okay, Ken, yeah, we'll do that. And that's kind of how it came about. Yeah, of course. And I, you know, I absolutely loved him. And, uh, we didn't fall out, we kind of had a— I said my British humor Probably went down the wrong way, you know, when he, uh, he said to me, kid, you're going home. He said, just when I'm beginning to understand what you're talking about. And I said, I said, that's all right, Marty, I'll see you at the reshoots. Right. Uh-huh. Right? And it kind of— because Marty's known for going on and filming, it went down like a bag of shit, you know. It really didn't go down too well.

So You think, oh, there's millions of people in the fucking world, so I shouldn't worry about one.

So he wasn't kind of getting your humor or your style or whatever?

British humor is kind of very different from American humor. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know.

It's a little wittier.

That's a common phrase though. I've said that 1,000 times leaving a project.

You've got the morning school sighs.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's true. Yeah, often not the director of the film, yeah.

No.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably not.

Ray, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention— I did mention at the top, The Gentlemen season 2, this series that you have. Yeah, yeah. Just talk a little bit, if you will. It's out now on Netflix.

Well, I've seen one episode from season 2. The first season I thought was great. I loved it, you know? The chicken scene is my favorite scene I've ever seen on TV, you know? When he's in the chicken suit with the shooter and all that. It's very good. And, um, I've spoke to all the journalists here about what they've seen because I've just come off a junkie, you know.

Oh yeah.

And, um, all the journalists say it's better, if you believe journalists. Do we believe the journalists? Oh, they're the best. Yeah, yeah. Well, they say it's the— yeah, season 2 is better. So that's the vibe, you know. So good. It starts today anyway, so I shall probably watch it a bit of it later on.

Well, we will.

To see how it's going. Yeah, we will. But it's a great— it's great working with this little mob. They're a good little family. And working with Guy, you know, it changes every day. The scripts change. So you'll get a 4-page dialogue scene, you know, but masses of dialogue. Quite tricky. And you learn it. And then you go in the next day and he's thought about it and he said, here's the new one. You go, fuck this, you know, lovely. But it's better. When you read it, it's better.

Yeah.

And it's— as long as it's better, it's all right. 'Cause once you've learnt the first one, you can learn the second one, and away you go.

Well—

And it's— even with the actual film, the story you've read on the page ain't the story you're gonna watch when you see the final episode. It's— it changes. The film's made in the editing room, really. Mm-hmm. And it— but it's for the better. Yeah. You can't moan with that, you know? Yeah.

Well, it's a— it comes with a lot of— the auspices of it are pretty great. It's created by Guy Ritchie. It's you and Theo James and Giancarlo Esposito, some of the people, and Joely Richardson, Hugh Bonneville. I mean, it's packed with a lot of talent from— in every department on that show, so...

Yeah. Lovely.

Wish you a lot of luck with it, man. And, uh, it's just been such a joy to have you, Ray. I've been just such a massive fan for a long, long time, and, uh, really just, uh, just, you know, couldn't, uh, just love everything you do.

It's terrific.

You know what, guys, that's really kind of you. Thank you very much. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm honored to be on your show. I've seen some of the people you've had on there before, so it's, it's a real privilege for me. And it's nice to meet— to see faces that I see on the telly that I don't Back at

you. Yeah, pleasure.

Maybe one day we'll sit down and we'll have a glass of something. We'd love that.

Let's do it. Yeah, when you're done with Malta, go out there, reapply your sunblock.

Yes, I will do.

Yes. All right, sir. All right, pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much.

Have a good day. Thank you so much. What an honor.

Thank you very much. All

right. Cheers.

Cheers. All right, hope to hear from you, boys. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Oh man, what an absolute treat.

Yeah, yeah.

The Windstone.

Guys, what a treat.

He's like a guy you could just hang out and talk to for hours.

I was literally planning on watching Sexy Beast tomorrow night, so I'm all teed up now, ready to go.

That's great.

I'm such a fan. I didn't even get to talk to him about Quadrophenia, a film that I adore as well that he made.

Oh, I've never seen that. I gotta see that.

So good. All the music by The Who. Oh, it's a great movie.

I always find it, like, so Interesting when tough guys like that are such down-to-earth, sweetheart, normal— you know? 'Cause if you see him, you're like, holy shit, that guy's gonna beat the shit out of me. And then you talk to him, you're like, oh, he's like the sweet, normal, kind guy.

Got nothing to prove.

No, he doesn't. And he plays tough guys, but he's— exemplified in Sexy Beast, but a lot of his other roles, he brings so many layers to it. There's always real pathos to his character. Yeah, I wanna hang out with him. I know, I totally wanna hang out with him too. I feel like you could— He just drops these nuggets of sort of wisdom that he's kind of picked up along the way. And he's, as he mentioned, educated through doing what we do, and it's been an education for him. And it's an education hanging out with a guy like him.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And so many big movies. Probably the biggest one was The Departed, I think? Yeah, probably one of them. And I can't remember who directed— That was directed— Bye, Martin Scorsese!

Bye, lazy, but bye.

Bye! Bye! Smartless. Smartless.

Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbacoa. Michael Grant Terry and Rob Armjorff.

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