Transcript of "Hugh Grant"

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Hey, guys. I'm off to the supermarket to do some grocery shopping and I thought you guys would like to know what's on my list. Here we go. Ready? Yogurt, granola, tomato sauce, ketchup, dried fruit, baked beans, nut butter, chocolate milk, cereal bars, bread, condiments, salad dressings, protein bars, candy tea, crackers, energy drinks, canned fruit, juice, coffee, soda, ice cream, barbecue sauce and cakes. Welcome to Smart List.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

L. I had a great day yesterday. Yesterday was. Remember the. We were talking about the. My heart, you know.

Oh, yeah. Did you get a new one yesterday?

No, I didn't get a new one, but I went and ate lunch by myself. I had really bad sushi. Then I went and got. I bought two books and I had an ice cream cone on the way home. I was like, this is it.

This is solo. This is solo.

This is by myself.

This is to make your heart better.

Yeah, it was. And then I went to the bookstore. Hey, by the way, do bookstores make you want to poop a little bit?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

No.

Something about just standing on your feet that long. I think gravity takes over.

No, but it's like some. The coziness of a bookstore. The coziness of like a pharmacy, you know? No. Or like a. Like a. Or like a gift shop.

Sorry. Coziness.

No.

Yeah, yeah.

There was a comparison between a bookstore and a pharmacy.

Well, yeah, just like the coat, like the quietness of it and the coziness of it. It really gets my stomach going.

This hypochondriac finds pharmacies comforting and cozy.

So JB Bookstore is a place where. Okay.

Which seems like a perfect segue to go into something we should talk about just for two seconds. Smartless Media is now doing a new show called Clueless.

Yes, I've heard about this.

Yes. You both were on an episode, actually. Our first episode.

Yeah.

And it's out.

So this is not a podcast starring Alicia Silverstone, right?

No, this is. That is correct. It stars the host. The host is Elliot Kalin. He's the former head writer of the Daily show with Jon Stewart, mystery science theater 3000. A bunch of great stuff. He's so funny. And I'm a permanent contestant.

You're the Clueless part of it. He's the clue full part.

That's exactly right. It's like 10 to 12 minute episodes of just puzzle podcasts. And it's super fun.

You can little sprints.

Yeah. You can like try to solve it while you're driving or listening to the show. And it's only 10 minutes and it's super fun.

Will, how long do you take playing wordle each day? Will?

Yeah.

What does it take for you to get through wordle?

Pretty quick.

Pretty quick because you usually bust real fast, right?

I sure don't. Well, I would stack. I would stack my wordle in timing and also success rate against yours any day.

No, no, you're definitely smarter than me.

Anyway, so Clueless is coming up. It's great. You should listen to it.

It takes no longer than the average person would take to solve wordle if you're super bright like Will Arnett.

I mean, it's fun. It's fun. It's fun.

It's a super fun show. Super fun games. And it premieres Monday, November 18th, and I'm on every episode and I play with family and friends. And you guys were kind enough to do the first episode.

A lot of fun. It was.

Yeah, I liked it a lot.

It was.

It's all for Smartless Media, which is fun. And that's our little Pl.

Check it out, bros. Yeah, yeah.

And. And gals. Hey, listen, speaking of checking out.

Yeah.

You know what I like to check out?

Oh, here he comes.

Are the films of our guest today.

You're like, oh, well.

And I don't think that I'm alone because I read somewhere that I think that our guests films have grossed north of $4 billion worldwide.

Wow, that's strong.

That's a very strong number. And what's even stronger about it, I.

Hope this person had a nice definition.

Well, I wonder if they did. What's even Stronger about it is, Tracy.

That'S a profit participation is.

Is the fact that they're so varied in the types of films they are. And some of them are sort of what you would consider sort of indie type films, Some of them what you would consider to be sort of comedies. Some are what you might consider to be romantic comedies, some you might consider to be just straight up dramas. Some would be period pieces. Everything. Everything. And in addition to the financial reward, our guest has also been rewarded with loads of nominations and wins for SAGs and Golden Globes and BAFTAs and Emmys.

It's a smarty.

I mean, this person or he. He.

He's a smarty. He's smarty.

He has been such a part of the film landscape for so long. I know that I imagine he's embarrassed by my intro, but he shouldn't be because he has done everything. He's taught us about love. Actually, he's taught us about what it's supposed to be about a boy. He's done it all. And now he has a new horror film called Heretic. You guys, it's. It's Hugh Grant.

Who?

I do not know.

The one and only Hugh Grant.

Look at this guy.

Do I take this?

Yes, take it off.

Oh, hell, look at this guy.

No, no, not the shirt, not the shirt.

It's a silver fox, guys. We got a silver fox on today.

It is the one and only Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant. Welcome to Smartless.

It's very nice of you to have.

Good morning.

Yeah, this is really cool. I only met you once on the street of New York City and I said, Hugh Grant. You said hello. That's it.

In a dismissive.

No, you were very nice, cold kind of way.

No, no, I'm not a very nice man.

Oh, that's.

We're all the same.

That's entirely untrue, I'm sure.

So did Sean yell it too loud and everyone then stopped and wanted to take a picture?

No, you're. No, you're.

I don't know, I was probably a bit hungover and grumpy.

There you go.

No, no.

Did I have a child with me? I've got millions and that always makes me unpleasant.

Get in, get in line.

How many kids do you have?

Well, we think it's five, but I had them much too old in life, you know. I started when I was 52 and now, you know, I.

Your first kid, you were 52? Wow.

Yeah, no, I'm 64, you know, and the youngest is six and I. I need a long stint in A sanatorium or an abbey I often look at.

Yeah.

The abbey that Maria lives in in the Sound of Music.

Yeah.

And wish I lived there.

What about one of those old, like, really old monasteries that they built at tops of mountains that are accessible by just like a very narrow path?

I'm frightened of monks. Okay. I don't mind nuns.

Yeah, yeah.

Are you in Los Angeles right now?

I've just arrived last night.

Yeah.

Bang the drum for my film from London.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How is that flying this way? Is it harder coming this way than it is going the other?

It's brutal both ways. I find I can't. I can't do it anymore. I think that's another age thing. I woke up hours ago, very, very hungry. And it felt like my heart is made of Play doh. Do you have Play doh? Yeah, we have play dough.

Yeah, of course. I used to eat it.

Sean's got a doctor for you.

I've got some upstairs. Hugh, you should know this, that Sean, two, three nights ago, woke up in the middle of the night with a heart issue, drove himself to Cedars Sinai, didn't wake up his husband. Drove himself to Cedars Sinai. They brought the paddles out, they put them under. They paddled them. He drove home an hour later, he woke up to use the B bathroom again and drove himself back to Cedars. And got paddled again.

Yeah. And then dinner that night.

So you're jet lagged by comparison. And I'm not saying this to make you feel bad.

Well, no, you are. And I.

It's working.

I feel humiliated.

But by God, you look fucking great.

Yeah.

Yeah, you do.

No, I don't.

You do. I'm telling you, you do.

You've managed to keep it going.

All this, you know, what I forgot to bring because I'm a bad packer. Underwear. So I'm talking to you commando this morning. I feel exciting.

I had a stint with that. I. I went a couple years with that.

Yeah, let's not go down that, Jason.

Because we know I'm not interested in going down.

Well, the details on it are not. Are a little sorted. Let's.

I used to wear boxers in college. I just didn't. I thought, because I was supposed to and I was just like, it's dumb. I don't. I don't get useless.

That's miserable experience that don't provide any, like, worth at all.

I like to be cupped.

Yeah, exactly.

You like to be cupped. That's good. Yeah, he likes to be cupped. And Jay, how do you go now, do you not wear any undergarments?

No, no, no. I'm into the boxer briefs now.

Okay.

It's a semi. Semi. Semi cup.

Yeah, same.

Okay.

I think that's the answer.

So, Hugh, we can listen and feel free to say no. We can send somebody over with a variety if you'd like.

No, I've already asked a concierge in the hotel to provide some. He looked surprised. I'll go shopping.

Hugh Grant, honestly, you know, I do feel. I'm sorry to say you're one of those sort of film stars that I feel like, because I've seen you in so many films, I feel like, oh, yeah, well, it's Hugh Grant, whom I know from earlier, and there is that sort of familiarity that we have through roles and you have done so many different. And now I think I'm safe to say you're doing something that is completely new now. You're doing this sort of horror film, if you will, for lack of a better word. Right.

Oh, yeah, I love it.

No, that is correct. We can call it horror, or we can call it psychological thriller, perhaps, for people who are frightened of horror films like me, but we can also call.

It one of the last remaining viable genres for theatrical distribution.

Yes. Why is that? Explain that. That to me.

I. I'll bet you it's because people like to have the scare be a shared experience, because a scare at home might be a little too scary and being in True, you know, but you would think that comedy would be the same way, right? You want the. You want the shared experience of the laugh. But comedies have yet to come back.

I know, and. And I sort of brought that up, actually, to our friend Jason Blum, who makes a lot of horror films from. Yeah, Blum House. And I said. And I said that, jb, I said, well, why don't we make a comedy? And he said, no, there's no money. And.

Yeah, I don't get it.

Yeah, yeah, I don't get it either.

I understand wanting to be home alone. If you're going to be crying, you don't want to cry next to a stranger. But I do like laughing with strangers. I like being scared with strangers.

Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, Hugh. Hugh comments.

It's very. It's very sad. No one's sadder than me. My local cinema just closed down after 30. I mean, I've been going there for 30 years. It's been going for 100 years. It's just awful.

Yeah.

To me, I can't understand the instinct of someone who says, I think I'LL just hit home, sit at home and stream. That seems so utterly sad.

It is nice to not have to leave the house.

I mean, I couldn't disagree with you more. My only object in life is to get out of the house.

Well, you. You've got. You've got those kids running around making noise.

Hang on, jb. Hugh, this is. I want to get into this. I'm so glad you're saying because you're talking to these two are two people who would. And by the way, a lot of Angelenos who are sort of in the same our age and who kind of do what we do are equally as boring as these two. No, you're not. You're not agoraphor. But you have zero ambition and are way too comfortable in your fucking plush lives and you're not interested in anything other than yourselves. So, Hugh, it's entirely true. Hugh, talk to me a little bit about getting out of the house. What is it you like to do so much?

I've always regarded home as hell. I think homes are hell.

Of a biography.

Home, hell, home.

The guy who dresses me on films wants my autobiography to be called Coffee in the Custard. And I think that is better, actually. Well, yeah. Holmes, I don't get it. That's why I don't understand why everyone wants to work from home. I cannot imagine anything more dreary or depressing.

Hugh, are you currently married?

Yeah, I'm married to a terrifying giant Swede.

We're going to launch a new podcast from Smartless Media called Telling It Like It Is, starring Hugh Grant.

I could. Hugh, this. This is absolutely delightful and surprising and obviously we don't. I don't know. You tell us a little bit.

Tell us a little bit about this cat. You're married to this terrifying person who's in your life.

Yeah, well, actually, she's magnificent.

Yes.

And as are the kids. We know. You jest.

Yeah, no, I should point that out. No, she's great. To my great surprise, while I was being pretty drunk for a few years In London about 13 years ago, the bar I used to hang out at, there was this hot Swede at the other end of the bar. And it was hard. She's. She's an athlete. She was very nearly a pro tennis player, but she's just too angry. Anyway, we got closer and closer, and then we started breeding, and then. And now we're married. I love that she's very much the man in the family. She comes from the northern part of Sweden. I mean, Swedish men. I Think are quite masculine anyway. But when they come from the north, where everyone lives among the trees, they're really seriously masculine. And men are not supposed to talk. If you talk, it's a bit girly, no, it's true. Her brothers, I've never heard them say a word for yes and no. They just suck their teeth. They go, that's northern Swedish for yes. Or an oh, look at this.

Oh, look. Oh, the food's coming for you.

Yeah, I got some coffee. Thank God.

Yeah, you got some.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, get that in.

Well, yeah, the Swedes do that. Correct me if I'm wrong. They do that thing where they talk to the phone, where they go, that's right.

Yes. Yes, that's it.

That's a yes. That's an agreeable breath.

I've spent some time in Stockholm over the years. I've been there a few times, and I quite like Sweden. I always say that Sweden is kind of like Canada with much better architecture and it's. And the people are really great, but they're also very blunt in that way that a lot of the sort of the Nordic people can be. And I always find. Because every time I went there, you know, I'd go and I'd see people, relatives or friends, and they'd say, oh, look at you, you look quite fat. And I'm like. And I'm like, well, thank you. It's great to see you too. My, you are tired. You are very tired. And I can tell by your face looks terrible.

That's absolutely correct. I don't allow my wife to go on any of the group chats with the schools because she offends everyone instantly.

With remarks exactly like, wait, Hugh, did you ever. Speaking of the. The. The character, how you just described your wife, did you find it difficult to give up control as a man? When you met her, like you had before you met her, were you, like, more in control of, or did you believe you were in control of more? And then when you met her, you're like, yeah, I guess I could hand this off to her. This is fine.

I seem to be quite happy in my pussy role. I just can't believe she likes me. I mean, you know, I'm a bit chatty compared to Swedish men, and I, you know, she catches me watching the Sound of Music in the afternoons.

I love it. We'd get along great.

Yeah.

God, I love the visual.

She also has a long list of things that she says are unshackable in a man. And they're really tough, like Having tea instead of coffee, Driving an electric car.

Yeah, so far.

Check, check for me.

Yeah, exactly. I wish I could remember the other ones. They're good.

So those are things that deem you ineligible for her pleasure.

Yeah, that's correct.

So you're a coffee man. Full combustion engine.

So all three children are adopted.

So what does she see in you? Man?

I know, it's a mystery. And she was married before to a very butch ski champion instructor or something and now there was an ugly moment when I was filming this film Heretic in Canada when I went for a walk one day we were filming in Vancouver, I went for a walk on Whistler Mountain nearby.

Beautiful.

And I told my wife on the phone and there was a bit of a silence and then it turned out that her ex husband lives on Whistler mountain.

No way.

I'm not very good in nature and I did get into slight difficulties that day and I had this nightmare scenario in which her ex husband rescues me, carries me down the mountain over his shoulder. That would have been a low point.

He rescues you because he lives in the trees? Because he's living close to the bone on the land, he's sort of hauling logs through waist deep snow.

Yeah, well that's him.

And we will be right back.

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And now back to the show.

Hugh. Let's go way back. Let's go way back to. So I think for a lot of people, certainly in this country and in Canada as well, I'm going to speak to my fellow Canadians. We sort of came to know you, I think, through Four Weddings and a Funeral was the thing where we went. Everybody went, oh, this guy is amazing. But truth be told, it wasn't your first film. You'd made quite a few films before.

Yeah, I had a career before Four Weddings, but it was a bit lame. I specialized in really low quality miniseries like Judith Crancy's Till We Meet Again. I was always, for some reason in these miniseries, I was always a champagne baron, an evil champagne baron. I did hundreds of those parts and I used to sell the family reserves of the best champagne to the Nazis and then get horsewhipped out of the house by Michael York.

Horse whipped out of the house, yes.

Another alternate title for the biography, Having.

Raped my half sister, Courtney Cox.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

Jesus Christ. This has taken a turn for the.

Better that I can and keep going.

And I'd love to see this.

Oh, there was another one where I was, you know, there's a. There's a brand of champagne called Charles. Anyway, I was him and.

What do you mean?

Well, I played him. I played him. It was partly sponsored by the champagne makers themselves. It was not a high point in television history, I don't think.

Okay.

And I made the mistake of doing a French accent. I didn't have great lines. I remember I had to say things like, you must listen to the champagne. There is laughter in the bubbles, you know, with lines like that.

Oh, God. How long, how long have you been a professional actor earning a paycheck?

Well, 40 years.

Yeah.

Wow. Isn't that amazing?

And it start. And before you were earning a paycheck, you were learning, I'm guessing. Was there much training? Was there?

No.

How early did the bug bite you?

You can tell.

Maybe it was not great training. No, you're fine.

Actually, I never, I never trained it with the whole thing started by mistake. I had left university. I was heading off to do another degree in a different subject, which I didn't really want to do. Which is what?

Which is what?

Well, I was highly pretentious. I'd just done a degree in English literature.

Thank you.

I was off to do a history of art masters. And anyway, as I. In the summer, when that was about to happen, someone said, come and watch this amateur film that I had played a small part in while a student at Oxford, and I thought I might as well. I was showing BAFTA in Piccadilly that night and I went there on my bicycle and I watched it. It was not a good film, I was not good in it. But at that time in England, it was very much the vogue for actors to be hoity toity posh. It was the time of Chariots of Fire and Brideshead Revisited and things like that. So agents said to me, would you like to be an actor? We'd like to represent you. And I said, no, thank you very much, and went back to prepare for a world in the history of art. And then I suddenly thought, actually, I've got no money, so maybe I should do that for a year and then I'll go and do my other degree. So I rang them back, I said, yeah, look, I'll do. I'll do this for a bit. And I.

I got jobs, but I was so bad, I thought, I can't leave it at that. I'll do one more and try and be better. And that has gone on for 40 years.

Isn't that interesting? Because. Yeah, because. Because you're English, like we all revere, and you. It's just.

It's.

You just assume that you've had all this training as most.

Well, well, I was going to say, yeah, and there are so many, of course, there are so many English actors who, who work over here and who as Englishmen or. Or pose as Americans. But there is always that thing about, you know, having gone to drama school, having gone to, you know, RADA or whatever. And I wonder if growing up in that environment. Now, of course you were coming out of Oxford, but growing up and a lot of your peers who were coming out of these school kind of a. I don't know, was there a thing about that? Was that. Was that something that they. That those people. I'm not asking you to speak ill of your friends, but was. Was there a kind of a thing about that where they kind of did. Where they lorded that over.

Were the ones who'd been to drama school?

Yeah.

Well, when I did this acting, I was nervous of them because I thought they must know stuff I don't know. And I did read books about, you know, the voice and the body, and I did tragic drills in the park by myself. But no, really awful, awful. I did one where you had to. Said, you must run backwards with your arms spread out, shouting, ha. From your diaphragm. And I was in the theater up in Nottingham in north of England at the time, and I went to the local park and I did these things. And then I remember looking over at some local kids who were saying, look, he's doing it again. What a wanker.

There he goes again.

Yeah, in many ways they were right.

Do you remember what the big switch and change was when you went back to do it again and do it better and not be quite as bad an actor as you say you were? Do you remember, did you do anything on purpose that pushed you more towards the higher quality performance? Was there one thing?

Well, you. You all know this. It's only about parts. It's just about how good the part is really. And in the end, the script for Weddings and a Funeral came across my desk and I auditioned and they really didn't want me. The guy who wrote it, Richard Curtis, really didn't want me, thought I was all wrong, but the man who directed it did, and that seemed to help. Although I must say, I never really felt I got that part. You know, you get that feeling, don't you? And you think I'm being rather good. I'm absolutely in character. I never felt that with.

How do you mean? How do you mean?

I couldn't hear him. I have to hear them and I couldn't hear him. Well, I couldn't anyway, off the page it helped after I finally met Richard Curtis, who wrote it. Who is that guy? And so in some ways I'm just doing an imitation of him in that film.

Do you ever sit back? Because, I mean, we've all seen so much of your work. Do you absorb how do you get a moment of how being proud of yourself and like taking it all in and being like. I mean, you don't seem the type, but like, my wish for you is that you accept it, you know, accept all the great work you've done.

Well, it's night of you. I've got better. And that's. That is a mystery. It's part again, I think it's partly parts. When I got too old and ugly to do romantic comedies and started being offered these weirdo parts, it suited me best.

Now you're. Now you're killing people. We're running down the street.

And you know, I have another weird. I have two theories about it. One is I learned really much too late in my career that you have to mean it, you have to think it. There's a whole other script behind the script, which is all about thoughts and feelings. And prior to that, I'd always just Thought I just need to land this funny line, right timing. And that's, that's not the way to be good. So. Meaning it was one thing, but the other thing was I. I have a weird theory that it was having children. I think I. I was a dried up, middle aged, golf addicted Englishman. Then I had children and suddenly I had heart and I, I think, had more layers or something.

Wait a second, now you're speaking our language. Jason and I are. We're in two hours, we're teeing off, and if you ever are in town and you want to play with us. Hugh.

Hugh just said, can I come?

I just asked.

Okay.

No, I can't today. You'll be glad to.

We need a fourth.

We need a fourth if you can play tomorrow.

So, Hugh, talk a little bit about, you know, when you say jokingly you said, you know, too old, too ugly to do the rom com parts anymore, but, you know, talk a bit about sort of the half serious part of that where, you know, your looks still are incredible. But that was a large part of what we knew and loved about you, was this incredibly handsome, dashing man providing the lead in all of these films, which I'd like to still see you do, considering your incredible looks maintaining here. But, like, was that something that got in your way? Like some sort of, you know, famously beautiful actresses of our time have often mentioned that, you know, they weren't taken seriously because they were so gorgeous. I mean, you know, was that ever something that you thought, well, you know, I want to be taken seriously as an actor, but people are hiring me for my looks. Was that ever something that was a problem?

Well, I entirely lost faith that I could do anything else. I believed my critics, really. But I see now maybe I was wrong because at the very beginning, if I had any talent, it was for doing strange characters and silly voices and things, outlandish things that were nothing like me. And I had this comedy group that was actually quite successful, the London and Edinburgh sort of fringe circuit, which was all character stuff, you know, silly characters.

What kind of year was it? What started?

That would be mid-80s.

Okay.

And yeah, we used to perform in pubs with people like Mike Myers. He was next on the wall. Yeah, and that was fun. And. And actually, just after I made Four Weddings, I shot another film with the same director before Four Weddings was actually released, which was, you know, I was a nicotine stained, predatory, evil, twisted, unpleasant theater director. And I was pretty good. And I wish that at least I'd kept that other strand of my career going through all those years and years of romcoms. Not that I hasten to add. Not that I hate the romantic comedies. I'm proud of them. It's nice to have made films that actually entertain people. And they're much harder than people think and in some cases much better, I think, than the sneers think. My wife's good on this. She was watching, I think, Love actually the other day, because we like to watch one of my films every night. I make all the children watch them. If they don't watch them, they don't get fed. And she said, quite correctly, she said, what's good about this film is that it's about pain. And those, the good romantic comedies I did were really about pain.

It's about humor, dealing with pain, the pain, unrequited love, et cetera.

And so do you feel that perhaps, but for the massive success of the more sort of commercial efforts that you made, the rom com stuff, that you would have maybe had a better chance at being received as a, as a. As a thespian? It's, you know, sometimes, you know, our great directors get stuck in that too. You know, they're incredibly sophisticated, but then they direct some big popcorn success and.

Now they're that director where they're shackled by financial success.

Right, yeah, exactly. Greed plays a big part in this.

Yeah.

Greed and laziness. And they've played, those two, have played a huge part in my career.

Well, but you're being falsely modest here, but do you think that. Would you have made different decisions earlier on to balance out more of the output, like chosen some weird characters alongside the others?

Yes, yes. Well, I still had some confidence coming off this other weird film I did before Four Weddings and then another one called Restoration, which was not a very successful film with Robert Downey, but I played a kind of freakish cameo in that and I was pretty good, I thought, and I should have at least kept that going.

Well, are you looking forward to now this stage of you know, maybe like saying, well, well, check out what's been under this all this time. And here comes some more interesting parts from.

Yeah, well, I suppose that's what I've been doing for the last seven or eight years.

Yeah, I was going to say that it seems like you've kind of been on that track a little bit. Yeah. And you've been sort of mixing it up.

Yeah, I have mixed it up.

Yeah. I'm so late to the party. But the Undoing is a perfect example that you were so great in that with Nicole Kidman and, and I loved that series because I'm a big fan of thrillers and stuff like that, so that was incredible. I loved that series.

Oh, that's nice of you. Yeah. Not easy, but very well directed, that thing. Very well. By Susanna Beer Danish. You know, that whole Scandinav thing she brought. She made that. What it was, I think really cool. I think so, yeah. I mean, I was gonna say, I don't want to spoil it, but it's ancient history now to be that charming guy, the ideal husband. He's a cancer doctor for kids, loving to his child, loving to his wife. Marvelous. Then it turns out he's an absolute savage psychopath.

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

You know. You know, it's funny, Hugh, you seem to have like this very sort of, I gotta say, kind of refreshing and very. I don't even know what to say. Sort of honest, this sort of, sort of self appraisal that you're doing. And maybe it's because. And I will say I do share with you as now that I'm north of 50, 54, I spend a lot of time. I don't take as many things as seriously as I used to when I was a young man, certainly when I was a young actor, certainly my career, I didn't have the career that you did in film. In fact, I always joked that if it wasn't for bad films, I wouldn't have made one. But you seem to have this very sort of healthy self deprecating thing. And it's not even self deprecating. I think it's. It's obviously very funny, but it's also. I wonder how much of it for you is cathartic to just kind of let it all go and not be serious about it. Is that a conscious decision? I quite like it. And you're encouraging me to do it more about myself.

Well, I don't know. I mean, I feel actors can sometimes get a little pious or reverent about what they're doing. And I've never. I've never been able to go down that alley. I do in the end think we're in the entertainment business. And if you're not entertaining people, what are you doing? What are you doing? It's a bit of a. It's a bit masturbation.

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Sean, you want to speak to that?

Yeah, thank you. No, I totally agree. I always thought that, like, if you. Exactly what you just said, like there's a lane to pick where you make great things that speak to your heart and that are true for you and that you want to make, and that's called art. And in some form, it's all art. But if nobody's watching you make that art, it's like if a tree falls in the forest, you know, like, then what are you doing?

I know, but that's not right either. I take back everything I just said, okay. Because if you don't have the people trying new stuff.

No, I know. There's a balancing act.

It's a balancing. And the problem is, I think under the umbrella of art comes an awful lot of pretentious dross that deserves to die in the forest, but also some absolute gems and artistry that actually genuinely gets me going. On the plane last night, I watched Zone of Interest, and you. You cannot get.

Yeah, that's incredible.

More incredible filmmaking in every aspect than that film.

It's incredible.

And that clearly is not made for, you know.

Right. The masses.

What you might call entertainment or money, but it's, you know, incredible.

Sean. Sean and Scotty, you guys don't. Because you. It's not part of the mcu, as we'd call it. Right. The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Sean and his husband can often be found with sort of children's lightsabers battling on the front lawn.

Spocky, I like to call it the.

Front lines, but, yeah, no, we're big sci fi fans, but I know what you mean. I think the goal then, if you're making the thing, something like Zone of interest, and it does find an audience that's as it has. I believe that's the real win, is when you're making.

Well, because it's illuminating. It's illuminating, right? I mean, not only is it great art, there's also a message, but it's illuminating and exposing people to art sometimes. Jason, as you say, making the medicine go down earlier, I hate even calling it medicine, because it is. But also getting into conversations about what is art and what is not art is a very slippery slope into douchebaggery.

Right, right, right. For sure.

For sure.

And I think what sometimes has got lost, or perhaps has got lost, is that it was possible to make big, successful box office films that were smart. I used to have a deal with Castle Rock Pictures, and Rob Reiner, who was the kind of boss of that, always said there are $200 million movies in this country. One of them's moronic, and the other is very bright. And you can make big, successful films that are intelligent, smart, you know, groundbreaking. And he did lots of them, you know, and I think it's sad that that's got lost, that that doesn't seem to exist so much anymore. Or maybe it's. It's moved over to Netflix or something.

We'll be right back.

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And now back to the show.

Now, what about junkets? Now you like the older you get. For my sister Tracy, who doesn't junket is a press tour for any project working on and I bet you that's.

What Hughes in town for Hughes in town to answer a bunch of questions about this new movie coming out. And it's part of sort of, yeah, you got to bang the drum, light your hair on fire.

And not only, not only that, let's discuss the worst part, which is the back to back junket days when you sit in a room and then they trot.

I was about to go downstairs and start that.

And you do and they say, okay, so today it's 35 and tomorrow it's 41 in a row. And I know you're listening at home and you're saying, hey, fuck you. I stare at a wall all day and then I drive home. But this is equ. Is mind numbing, I assure you.

Yeah, my qu. Yeah. To that point my question is just like the. What we were talking about before. The older you get, you kind of have. Don't you have the power to say, guys, I'm going to do like three today and that's it. Or I don't know.

Yes, you do, I suppose. But you feel a bit of an asshole if you do that.

Yeah.

Because you come to love the filmmakers, don't you? You love your. You know, everyone's put themselves out there and it's a terrifying moment when you're about to present something to the public and to just walk away and say, I'm too grand to talk to the media is a bit wanky.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

But what happens in the scenario where you've seen the film and you're like, oh boy, oh, this has come together. This did not work yet. You still have to go out and champion it. Is that difficult?

Well, traditionally at that point, I Like to get arrested and then.

Brilliant.

Then you're kind of out of the.

Loop, you know, very smart plan.

You're n a. Yeah.

Tech. Not avail la.

But this one, I imagine this one you're excited to talk about. You're in one of those really cool new. That love this new. I guess it's not a new genre but it's a, it's a, it's a tilt on the genre of horror films where they've really, over the last, what, five or ten years become much more cinematic. Like these are really, really well made films. They're beautiful and they're challenging and I would imagine this is, this is one of those. Did you, did you have a great time doing it? Are you happy with the end product?

I am very happy with the end product. And you're right. Well, part of the reason I did it was because it was a 24 and yeah, it's not often in life that you get something as surprising and uplifting as what they've done for cinema with just sheer balls and courage and good taste, creating film after film that's. That's fresh and new and often utterly fucking terrifying. I'm still getting over mid summer. You ever see that film?

No. I want to see that. I haven't seen it.

Oh my God.

Well, it's kind of like what you said. What Rob Reiner said is, you know, like, why can't you have something that is artistically sound but also so enjoyable and so satisfying and delivers so thoroughly that it makes a whole lot of money, sells a bunch of popcorn at the same time.

And that's the dream scenario. Exactly, yeah.

That's. The Bullseye Heretic has got that.

Well, it's definitely very smart. I mean it's, it's, it's fascinating. There's. I'm a character who makes a lot of quite long speeches in it about religion. And they were genuinely fascinating to me, these two weirdos who wrote and directed it, Scott and Brian, who also wrote, for instance, A Quiet Place. They're interesting guys. They, they did years of research to come up with the arguments I make in this film. And I think they are really quite startling and fascinating. And so, yeah, I enjoyed all that part of it. And it's filmy. I am obsessed with films being filmy and not just like big format tv. So it's got incredible production design, incredible photography and it's daring because traditionally, as you know, films tend to try and keep their dialog quite pithy and short. This is very dialog heavy.

And how are you at learning your lines.

Well, worse and worse. You know, the older I get, the more I drink. But I now start weeks and weeks early, and I go for walks every day, going through every single line over and over again. Because I think that I have a theory that they're like dance steps and that the more you repeat your dance steps, the more you can't forget them on the day. And then on the day, you can have other thoughts and other feelings and do what actors are supposed to do.

Yeah, because it's in your skin.

Yeah, it's in your skin. And I hate seeing in my eyes or any other actor's eyes. I think he's just looking for his next line there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you record? Sorry. Go ahead, Sean.

As I said, Jason has the opposite. He can look at something and memorize it in five seconds.

He's very good at that.

I don't understand it.

I don't understand it that great. But it's. I do. It's sort of a self preservation thing. I find if I. If I wish I could do what you do, Hugh, But I find if the more I do that, the more I sort of nail in a way I'm going to do that line, the more and more I talk about it and rehearse it, then I'm less flexible on the day when I see what the other actor is doing and I actually have to change a little bit.

Yes, yes.

It's harder for me if I'm really nailed down with the lines.

You're right. So I worked in the theater once with a very good director who used to say, don't nail. You're nesting your lines in rehearsal, you know, and that was brilliant. You don't want to nest. But at the same time, I've worked with actors, as I say, where they're just struggling for their lines the whole time. That's all that's going on in their eyes.

We used to sort of 20 years ago when Jason and I were doing a television show called Arrested Development, and we used to constantly be getting rewrites at the last second. And so we'd have our sides with us on set. We'd be looking at them and we'd blah, blah, blah, and just trying to jam it in, jam it in. They'd be like, rolling, okay, here we go, guys. Everybody's up in front of them. We're just looking, looking, looking. And one of the sets was this living room of this house, and we jam our sides between the cushions. So years later, do you remember this, Jay Years later, we went and we did a few more seasons of the show for Netflix, like, whatever it was, eight, 10 years later. And they had all the old sets. They preserved them somewhere out in, I don't know, in the desert where they keep sets of old television shows. And they brought the original stuff. And we sit, we go to rehearse. The first day, we're sitting on the couch and I reach. I think there's no chance. I reach between the cushions and there are all these sides that had been jammed in there years earlier from the last second, jamming them in.

Isn't that funny? Hey. Well, Hugh, you know, you sound like you are. You're a big film fan as far as the way things are shot and designed and whatnot. Have you, with all your set experience, have you ever flirted with director? Is that an interest to you?

It is of interest. There's lots of it, which is of interest. The bit that would get me down.

Is the work.

A year or two years on the same story. I've produced films in the past and, you know, by the end of the year and a half, you just think, I don't care anymore. Just get it out. You know when you're in a Foley session about which footsteps for the postman coming up the stairs.

True.

But Jason, you love that kind of intricacy stuff.

Well, he loves the postman approaching.

I do. I actually, yeah. We're coming up with the sound of. What? What does it sound. What is the sound of a body hitting the ground? I did that on Ozark once. It was from 40 stories. And now we've got this other one and this new one where it's just three stories and it's going to be a different sound and I'm going to find that. Yeah, exactly.

How did you get the 40 story one?

It's just.

Did you actually throw someone out?

No, that was. That was something that we thought about doing, actually, like throwing a big bag of something out. But yeah, anyway, it was just louder than the three story one. But I do anticipate that process being becoming a bit tiresome. At some point. I'm going to gas and I'm going to be like, yeah, you know what? It's just the acting part for a while now. You think so perhaps.

It's also very, very hard to see the story. I find after a year or a.

Year and a half, to lose your objectivity.

Yeah. To produce one of those films. We used to call, you know, the cleaning lady in the editing room and just say, come and watch this film and then suddenly you could see it, you see it through someone else's eyes. But yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't see what other people.

What about, what about writing, Hugh? Have you done any writing or any film writing? Any other kind of writing?

Well, increasingly I, I ginger up my dialog. Not on every film, but on some of them. A lot, A lot. It may be up to 80% is scribbled by me.

Oh, really? Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

And then how do you navigate that tricky process of not offending anyone? Ask. Well, yeah, and like you gotta kind of pitch that to the director and, or the writer or the other actors. And then what if they say, yeah, no, I like it the other way. And then you're like, yeah, but I'm the one talking and I don't want to sound like an idiot. So here, here's the better dialog.

I agree.

It's a little window.

I'm a master of that particular labyrinth though. And I also am fully aware that nine times out of ten when an actor says, I got some ideas it's going to be, and yeah, yeah, you don't want to hear it and you dread it. And then, you know, sometimes the director will have to say, now let's do one of yours. Just which, you know, is going to end up on the cutting room floor just to keep him happy.

Yeah, I imagine, I don't know you, but I imagine that diplomacy is, is one of your strong suits.

I, I flat out genius at that.

Yeah, yeah, that, that comes across would.

Help you with directing.

Yeah, it would actually help you with directing because that's all it is, isn't it? I mean, it's a lot of it.

Hugh, when you come to, when you come to la, what are the things you look forward to doing? Or as you say, when you just quote, get out of the house, what are the things you look forward to?

Well, I was a golf addict for 12 years, so I used to get the guys together and go and golf in the very old days in the Judith Krantz till we meet again days. I used to go to Rancho Park. I bet you never played there.

Of course we have, we have.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

They used to announce your name through a loudspeaker.

They still do, they still do.

And you team up with three guys you never met.

Yeah, yeah.

More rounds played on that golf course than anywhere in the country.

And tell you what, if you like a seven hour round, Rancho is your place.

So you've kicked, have you kicked the habit Having kids runs counter to it.

Yeah. That killed everything. And also I got the shanks.

Did you?

Yeah, I got the shanks, or the Tom Hanks, as we call them in rhyming slang, worse than anybody's ever had them.

What are the shanks?

That's when the ball goes far right instead of straight or far.

It's almost impossible to achieve if you try to do it, but it's where the head of the club meets the shaft of the club. And so the ball goes humiliatingly, the hosel.

You know, there's a very. Quite famously, Ian Baker Finch, who. Who won the Open and who's now a broadcaster here in America. Golf broadcaster. And. And he's, by the way, very good golf broadcaster. And he still plays. We actually saw him last year playing. I mean, not professionally. He doesn't play professionally because he won the Open. He was sort of at the top of the game and he got the shanks. Yeah. And he. And he couldn't hit a fairway, and he couldn't. And it's so.

Shanks are not nothing.

Yeah.

Well done.

I once lost. I lost a ball chipping from off the green on live television. I was in a big Pro Am in Scotland, and all I had was the tiniest chip up onto this green, one of those courses in Scotland, shanked it, went into one of those little streams and was taken out to sea, lost. That's probably when I gave up gold.

Jason, Jason, Jason. One time at a Pro Am at Pebble beach, two year, two, three years ago, playing a couple groups ahead of me. Was in a bunker on the third hole, and he thinned one. He hit it thin out of the bunker and it went straight into the windshield of a car.

Oh, that's magnificent.

And I just dove in the bunker and just got outside.

He ducked, walked away and went to the next hole.

That's shameful.

I know.

Would you like to know my most shameful moment like that?

Please.

Yeah.

Took my dad and my brother to play golf in northern France, and there was one course we wanted to play on. It wasn't open, but they said we, because we got our big tournament today, but we will open it especially for you, Mr. Grant. Monsieur Grant. In fact, come early. We'll cook you a special breakfast and we'll take you to the first tee. As long as you get off before the tournament, everything's fine. So we turn up, they cook us a lovely breakfast, they drive us to the first tea round. About the third hole, I'm already in a rage. I had terrible golf Rage I've had. I got the shanks with some chip and threw my wedge as far as I could over a kind of hill by the side of the third green, into the bushes, thought, right, I never want to see that funky thing again. Then realized over that hill was not the bushes, but was in fact the first green. And I go over the top of the hill, and there is my wedge embedded like a tomahawk in the middle of the green, right next to the hole. And the competition has now started with their best players coming up the green and the guy who'd cooked us breakfast sitting in a buggy right by the green.

Hello there. Yeah.

Yeah.

Some crazy man stole my wedge and threw it over this hill. I'm so glad I found it.

Yeah.

Did you ever get to. Did you ever get to be a single digit?

I did. I got to 6.7. That my zenith.

Nice.

Yeah, but you're lower than that. I can tell from your face.

No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. I can't play to that at all.

Hugh, are you with your. Any of your family, your kids, your wife? Did they travel with you, or are you solo?

No, thank God. Yeah, actually, my wife. My wife is coming out tomorrow.

Oh, that's fun.

Yeah.

Will you guys go out to eat? Will you guys go out to like.

Yes, yes.

We miss concerts.

Yeah, no, not concerts. No, we'll go. We'll go out for scandi. Drinking dinners.

Okay, good.

Wonderful. And I still have friends here, remarkably. Especially my old Castle Rock friends.

I'll bet.

Doing golf with them. Doing.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, good.

Last thing I want to ask you, Hugh, and then we're going to let you go. And I know you're busy and you're exhausted and this is a drag, but where do you see the next five? Because you're making all these changes and doing all these. If you had it your way, what are the next five years for?

Well, the fantasy, which is the same fantasy I've had for 40 years, is that I finally knock it on the head and write my novel or possibly a wonderful script. But I can't seem to get over that hurdle. I sit down and I terrified of failure, but I have pages and pages and pages of ideas and notes, and that would be really nice because also, I think, right. In the last few years, it's become less enjoyable to be recognizable in the street than. Well, it's just harder now. I find it hard.

The camera, because everybody's got a camera.

Thing is tough, particularly with children and.

Yeah, yeah.

So it Would be nice to gently disappear.

I would be first in line to read your book, and I think they would. I imagine it'd be quite good, so.

And I would be second in line to listen to it.

Yeah.

Audio, for sure.

Well, you can do the audio book.

Sean and Jason will listen to it, but please do. Please do write that book. I think it would. I imagine you'd have a lot to.

Say, so you've been very nice to me. Thank you.

Huge fan.

Massive. Massive fan, man. Massive fan. For a long time in.

Well, I looked at your three names and thought, I'm frightened of all three of you because they're all brilliant.

You're very sweet.

Then I googled this podcast because I don't know much about podcasts, nor do we. It's gigantic. You're the richest people I've ever met.

I mean, there's plenty more.

Yeah, there's plenty more.

Yeah, yeah. Do you do.

Do you do concerts? You know, and you sort of.

We did a tour.

We did a tour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we went to. We went everywhere, actually. We were going to come to London last. This time last year, but we.

Yeah, we may end up doing a European version of it one of these days. But, yeah, we love going out there on the road.

If we come to London and we. Even if we. Would you. Would you agree now? And. And we won't hold you to it. To jump on stage and say hello, if we do a show in London.

Yes, I do that. Yes. Can we play. We'll play golf at Sunningdale.

Oh, that'd be crazy.

Oh, Sunningdale.

Yes, that would be great. We. Jason and I had said. We talked about the London trip and the tour, and we said, well, we're gonna have two dates in London and then we'll bring our clubs and then we'll. We'll also do a date in Dublin, so we'll play in Ireland as well. We had planned it all.

Yeah.

I played in my golf story, which I've told a long, long time ago here fast. I played in Dublin with my brother Kevin, and this is a true, true story. I hit it. I don't know what's shank or what's shanked again. When you hit the brush kind of goes.

Goes bad.

Yeah. So I hit it. I shanked and it hit a. And I hit it really hard. It hit a tree, bounced off, and smack. Hit me in the neck. My own ball.

No.

Hit me in my own neck. I swear to God, it was horrible.

It was the universe saying, get the out of here.

Yeah. And we didn't have. Yeah, exactly. And I did. We didn't have a little cart. Cart. We just had to walk everywhere. I was like, God, why is this?

We never play with that cart.

We never walked 75 mile walk. I don't know.

Yeah, it's a nice walk. Why you walk in a garden and you get to play a game at the same time.

Yeah, for sure.

Hugh, thank you so much, Grant.

Continued success, man. I hope you get to do exactly what you want to do. You deserve it and we deserve to hear about it and thank you for your time and get some rest, sir.

It was nice to meet you all.

Thank you. It was a pleasure to meet you.

And I can't wait for Heretic.

Yeah, thanks.

Thanks. Yeah, nice to meet you. All right. Good luck with the film. Thanks you.

See you.

All right.

Bye, pal.

See you guys.

Bye.

Wow, is he funny.

I love how dry and candid and me too. Honest, refreshing. Reminds me, what's that Brian Cox quote? I'm too old, too rich and too famous to give a. Isn't that what he said? Yeah, it was very, very refreshing. What? I've always been a fan of his. Never met him. Never really heard or seen an extended interview with him. So that was really nice.

Yeah, me neither. Yeah, it's one of those. I don't feel like I know a.

Lot about him, but I love his career trajectory too.

Yeah, he's made like 100 movies too.

Yeah, he's made so many movies and he's made. And he's made kids movie. Didn't he make. I'm going to. God, I should have looked this up. I mean, terrible. He made that the film. What? There was Paddington, right?

Yeah.

Paddington was a great movie. Well done.

Great. Remember that?

That was a long time ago. Gosh, I. I wonder like. Oh, here comes, you know, back Bridget.

Jones, by the way. Bridget Jones. All the Bridget Jones films. Nodding Hill. He made all those, all those movies with Richard Curtis that Richard Curtis wrote. Talking about the fact that Richard Curtis did not want him for Four Weddings, who had written it. And then they went on to work together and have like a wonderful working relationship. Yeah, and I wanted to get into that, but he was being too self deprecating and funny about his life to interrupt him.

Yeah, but I've always been a fan of thrillers and stuff like that. And he's got. What's it called? Heretic.

Oh my God.

Heretic. Yeah. I can't wait to get a ticket for that. Or not get a ticket, but. Bye.

It's so. Honestly, here's the thing. Here's the thing, Sean. No, it's too lazy.

Just hang up on him, Sean.

It's not clever. It's not clever. It's just lazy fucking. By Smart Less Smart less Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant, Terry and Rob Armjarf. Smart Less.

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