Transcript of Kylie on Inevitable Minivan Future, Online Clapbacks & Body Neutrality with Drew Afualo | Ep. 4

Not going to lie, I've hit the time in pregnancy where your body starts sleep training you. I have been up between the hours of two and four for the last two weeks. I'm running on nothing. I'm on E, guys. So take everything I say with a grain of salt. Let's get this podcast started. Welcome back to Not Going to Lie, a wave Original, brought to you by Duncan. If you missed me this past week, just know the feeling is mutual, but I'm back, and I'll never leave you guys again, except for when I go on maternity leave. Or should we record episode Zen, too? Wouldn't that be funny? With black circles under my eyes and just trying to keep my eyelids open. I'm going to need some toothpicks to prie these eyelids open. Right now, it's a brand new year, but I'm your same old host, Kylie Kelsey. Lifelong, Philadelphia, current pregnant person. You can't see it. It's down there. She popped. And a huge fan, huge, of the Transformers film franchise. I love it. As always, make sure you follow us on social media at NGL with Kylie, and subscribe to Not Going to Lie on YouTube.

We're posting clips throughout the week, including some never before seen moments on what we like to call More Shit Mondays. Shocker, it comes out on Monday. Coming up on today's episode, I'll be joined by one of my favorite content creators, Drew Affawalo. We're going to talk about our mutual love-hate relationship with comment sections, clapping back online, and changing the narrative when it comes to body image. But before we get to all of that, I know it's the new year, but no surprise here. I'm not big on resolutions. To be honest, Queen Emma wrote this rundown and included the fact that I am not a resolution person just on the vibe. And Emma nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. I'm not a resolution person. I don't know if it's my short attention span or the fact that I like to just tackle life as it comes along, but I can't plan for a whole year. And for the short term resolutions, that's what Lent is for. We're lucky I can do something for 40 days. I figured I could still get into the spirit, though, by giving you guys my official list of ins and outs for 2025.

And yes, I know this was a trend from last year, but I didn't have a podcast last year. And also everyone knows that moms are at least a couple of weeks behind. So just cut me some slack. And I'll kick it off on a positive note with my top ins for 2025. Number one, As much as it pains me to say, minivans. I said what I said. And for the people, my friends, who are hearing this, I don't need a wellness check, although I have told you before that that is what it would take if I ever said I was getting a minivan. Here's the problem. I'm about to have four car seats. Four. In one car. We're going to do a little three-year commitment, guys. We're going to do three years, we're going to grind it out, and then we're going to pretend it never happened. For those of you who are minivan lovers, like my husband, and think that I'm going to get a minivan, and then I'm going to stick with a minivan, well, we'll just have to wait and see. Number two, Shirley Temples. Shirley Temples will always be in, 2025 and then forever.

I'm not talking about a dirty Shirley. I want to make that abundantly clear. Don't you dare taint my Shirley Temple with a shot of anything. Not a single thing. Shirley Temple are one of the most delightful, refreshing. I'm not even a soda person, but I love a Shirley Temple. If I go somewhere and there is a full bar, you can guarantee I am getting a Shirley Temple. I don't make them at home. It's like a special treat when you go somewhere. I love a Shirley Temple. Shirley Temples are in. 2025, Shirley Temples. In number three, I think might be the most obvious, women's sports. 2024 was an outstanding year of people rallying behind not only female athletes, but women's sports in general. Some of the most watched programming for women's sports ever. Record setting. And so you know what? I say we carry it into 2025. And then set more records, keep Keep tuning in. Keep supporting these female athletes. Keep driving the narrative that these strong women athletes are exactly what should be on our TV screens and on our phones and in the public eye, And to the women athletes who are doing exactly that, you guys are nailing it.

Great work. Keep it up because I got three, almost four little ladies who are going to have eyes on you. So I need you to keep it going. Let's keep supporting women's sports. Number four, the same type of mascara I've been using since 2007. That's right. I've been using the same brand of mascara since high school. I don't plan on changing my ways anytime soon. In 2025, she stays. For those of you wondering, I do have it right here because our show every single week has involved me putting on my mascara. Number five, read receipts turned on. I did say read receipts. I understand that a younger demographic calls them read receipts. I'm sticking with read receipts. I use it as a personal check. Anyone in my life has received the warning of If I do not text you back and I have read your text message, I need you to text me again. Because in my brain, I answered. I'm fully on board with letting people know that I've seen your text message, because if I was supposed to answer, I need you to tell me again. That's it for ins. Let's move on to outs.

The first one, not going to shock you. Number one, the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, they're literally out, not even in playoff contention anymore. And if you are a fellow Birds fan, we can all just smile and nod, smile and nod. Number two, cybertrucks. It looks like a dumpster on wheels. I have driven one. It's not even a smooth ride, guys. So, yeah, no. Those can stay in 2024. Number three, Cocomelon. I know that there is a very... This one is controversial. I think this might be the most controversial one. I know that there is a huge population of people who swear by Cocomelon. But if you ask my kids if they are allowed to watch Cocomelon, they will tell you no. Because we don't cocomelen in our house. I'm not here to tell you what to do with your kids. If you guys watch cocomelen, all you. But I'm going to put my two cents in. I think we should leave in 2024. All I'm saying is, go, Ms. Rachel. Anyway, number four, any baby clothes that are not zippered. And diving even further into that, the zipper should go both ways. With 2025 bringing the fourth Kelsey Girl, we've done the newborn phase three other times at this point.

I know how deeply enraged an infant gets when you change their diaper. And if you can manage that, even the tiniest amount by not exposing their entire chest to the cold air, we're doing zippers, guys. We're doing zippers up and down. And for those of you who are not moms or not moms, yet, if you ever need to purchase a baby gift, up and down. That means one zip comes from the top, and then there's still another zipper at the foot because then you can unzip it from the foot, let their little leggies out, do a diaper change, put them back in, zip them right back up. The snaps at 3:00 AM, sick joke. I don't know who snaps that baby back up and nails the alignment on the first try. At 3:00 AM, we're lucky my one eye was open for that baby change. That baby change happened with one eye. You think that I'm going to align snaps? Not me. It will not be me. So zippies, guys. Zippers all day, both directions. Number five of the outs for 2025, giving a fuck. I said it, and I meant it. We got to say, giving a fuck, it's not the vibe, guys.

If something doesn't make you better or enrich your life or enrich the life of others, that's to go. I don't give a flying fuck. And I mean that from deep in my heart. Because giving a fuck is out in 2025, and I hope other people can get on board with that. That does it for my 2025 ins and outs. Let us know how I did, and maybe what your ins and outs are for 2025. You can tag us @nglwithkiley, with your favorites and any additions. I'm not shy about my Duncan obsession. I'd shout it from the rooftops if I could, and it turns out the apple fritter doesn't fall far from the tree because my kids are also huge fans of Duncan runs. I rarely take the girls with me, but when I get back with that box, they are locked in. They know exactly what's happening, and I will get shaken down until each of them has their chocolate, frost, sprinkled donut right in their hand. Do I have one that only eats the Frosting off? Yes. But one of these days, she's going to eat the whole donut, and I'm going to keep buying them until she does.

Whether you're headed out solo to try some of my favorites, like the butter, pecan, ice coffee or glazed donuts, or those apple fritters, don't sleep on them. Or you just want to take the whole family to try, you can head to your local Duncan today. Order ahead of time on the Duncan app or order in person at your local Duncan location. Moving on, it's now time to bring on my guest. She's a content creator, New York Times best-selling author and podcast host with over 8 million followers on TikTok. She also shares my greatest passions for uplifting other women and a well-deserved clap back. Drew, thank you so much for joining us on Not Going to Lie today.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be a part of the Kelsey universe, period.

Oh, gosh. Isn't it horrible? First of all, I'm not going to lie, it's so nice to see your whole face because every so often you'll pop on a Bye, Bye, Bye, For You page, and it's just the top half first, and then you get into it. There is something so iconic about how how we get to basically laugh together. Whenever you laugh in your clapbacks, I'm like, this is absolute gold. Right.

That's me pavloving everyone. My laugh elicits a laugh.

It is perfection. Thank you. I still remember the first couple of times I saw you on TikTok, and hearing not only how you absolutely It tore people limb from limb, just absolutely violated them. But did it in such an eloquent and articulate way that it just was like one of those where you're like, How can you not be obsessed with this? How can you not just want to keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling your entire... Like a doom scroll of your entire feed? I am just so impressed with the fact that not only the way that you stand up for yourself, but the way you stand up for others, it is someone who is about to have their fourth daughter. It is such a breath of fresh air to see the generation of women that are coming through right now who are willing to say, Fuck you.

Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. That's so sweet. Congratulations, by the way.

Thank you.

You're your fourth baby.

Thank you. We're just raising an army of women. It's fine. Period.

Get into it. I'm at the helm. I'm at the front. I'll leave from the front. That's it.

That's what we need. While I'm listing all your accolades, here's one more. You were just on the cover of the Forbes 30 Under 30 Content Creators. First of all, what is it like to still be under 30? Because I swear to God, I'm 24. I'm actually 32. But my brain is like, you're 24 forever.

Right. That's fair. That's easy. I feel like you can start You're scanning backwards whenever you want. Perfect. I did get in under the wire, that's for sure, because I'm 29. But yeah, it was an honor. It was crazy. I've worked with Forbes a couple of times now. It's really cool and very rewarding, given what I do in the niche that I have to be rewarded and accolued like Forbes 30 Under 30. I think that's fucking awesome, to be quite honest with you.

Now, when you first posted your viral red flags TikTok, Did you have a feeling that that was going to hit the way it did?

Honestly, no. When that one first took off, I was a little... I was just overwhelmed because, like I said, I'm 29, so I grew up on the Internet for the most part. I remember the era of YouTubers and Vine and all of that. I had no concept of how to deal with that because I was so aggressively normal before this happened to me. I had no way of knowing what it was going to turn into, literally at all. I just was having a good time. I was having a silly, goofy time. It looks like everyone else was having a goofy time with me, so it worked out.

Everyone was on the ride with you. Right.

They were enjoying it.

I will say, specifically, the Wolf of Wall Street reference- Period. Was one of those where you're just like, I've never thought of that.

Yeah, that one's a huge- But holy shit, that Hicks.

Yeah, that's a huge one. I dare you to pound your chest to me. I dare you.

For real. They're like, sell me this pen. They're big, big fans of that. Do it. That one, I think the wearing a backwards hat in the pool is a big hit. And being a big, big fan of Tom braided. Just specifically Tom braided, not Pats or Bucks. No. Specifically Tom braided. Yeah, he's got problems. That was, I think, the first time I made one that was so specifically niche because jokes like that make me laugh, and I think that's what resonated with people.

Now, Now, you are also a podcast host with two hit shows. Yes. Can we talk about the names of your podcast? Because I've shared how hard it was for me to decide on a name for this show. Right. Yeah. So you have a show with your sister. You co-host with your sister called Two Idiot Girls. Yes.

Yes, I do.

And how did you guys come to that?

For that name, I forget where the joke came from, but my sister and I, anytime we would do anything remotely silly or just like, Oh, my God, why would I ever do that? Anytime we would do anything like that, we'd be like, Idiot girl. That's what we would just tell each other. I would tell myself that we would tell each other that. It's to be funny. We would call each other idiot girls all the time. We're like, Well, there's two of us. There you go. Then we looked it up. Does anyone else have it? No? Perfect. We decided it years ago, and now we're married to it It's fine. It worked out, I think.

I love seeing you and your sister on your podcast because I only have one sister. To see you guys, that giggle that takes over or you say stuff under your breath to each other. It's like, it is the most sisterly connection. Totally. I think watching it gives me comfort in that. Oh, that's sweet. My sister and I would be going back and forth in the same Why. Yeah. And then you have a podcast, a hit podcast as well, called The Comment Section.

Yes.

You've wasted many. Yes. Many. Right. Many dudes in your comments over the years. Do you have any favorites that stick out?

Oh, man, that's a great question. Yeah, some of my highlight reels in my head. Once I made one about a guy and I said he said that he looked like he had the suds. I said he looked like he was being held together by prayer. I truly made myself laugh so hard, I started crying, which is not... That sounds like me jerking myself off. Whatever. I don't give a fuck. This shit was funny. I said he looked like the ferryman on the river's sticks, which that's a real niche joke. Anyone who knows anything about Greek gods, they ate that joke up, but that one got lost in the shuffle a little bit. But someone in the comments of that video said that it's giving part of the crew, part of the ship, which is like a Pirates of the Caravan reference. Dog, I latched so fucking hard. I still think about that to this day. That's one of my faves. This is a fun topical one. Once this dude, he attacked me for no reason, made a whole long video, said awful shit about me. Story as old as time itself. I just shot in the dark, just based off what he looks like, that's typically what I do.

But I said he looked like an O-line man at a D3 school who doesn't play. That's a very funny sports joke. My audience doesn't always get sports jokes, but some of them do. That one- Outstanding. Spun him out. You get that joke. It's hilarious. What's crazy about that joke is that he spun out. He made 15 videos about me after. He was so angry. But in the video, my My fiancé ended up looking him up. He really was an O-lineman at a D3 school and had no stats recorded for that year. I said, I shot in the dark and I hit your bitch ass, didn't I? Yeah. When I tell you, quit playing with me. When I tell you, quit playing with me, I mean that shit. I shot in the dark completely and I hit him. That's also one of my best ones, I think. I have a whole rolodex, but yeah, this is some of my tops.

The idea of nailing that so spot on.

Right. That's what I'm saying.

With such a niche... That niche...

Precision. Wow. Right. Tanya. Outstanding. I feel like I've told men before, the insults they levy at me are so low hanging fruit. It's always fat and ugly. It's fat ugly in 50,000 different fonts. It's just that in a million different ways. I've told people before, if you really want to stick it to a man when you insult him, you got to get up here. You got to get real specific. Deep. So deeply specific. Instead of saying, Oh, I bet it's small. I always tell people, you could say something like, You look like you wear a size 8 shoe. Very specific.

We still get there. Yeah, exactly. We still get there. But it is something that I'm sure they've looked down at their feet and been like, Shit.

Yeah, exactly. It's things they care about so deeply. Women care about a lot of things like that, too, but women don't typically think of that when they're insulting men. So I was like, Don't worry, you all. Trust me when I say it. It doesn't sound that mean, but it's going to live up here.

This is actually the perfect segue into a segment that we would like to call Coach Me Up. Okay.

T, let's do it.

So I have I have been known to respond to comments on occasion. Specifically, one that hit a little hard was one I did on TikTok, where I just called out some article titles in some tabloids where I was like, You're wrong, and you look dumb. I did not quite get into it in the level that you have again, dissected people with precision. But I'm just wondering if maybe you can help me out here because- Totally. Just like with sports, I feel like the 90% of this is a mental game. Like you said, you got to get deep in there. I do find that most of the time, specifically in the comment section, when people want to bring in let's be honest, they're bullshit. It often is based on... You didn't have to say that.

You could have just kept scrolling, but you came in here specifically to drag someone else down.

Yeah, totally. Just for your own personal gain. The fact that people still do it in your comment section is one of the most Most appalling... Just say you're a moron without saying you're a moron. Right.

Or new. I was like, You logged on to TikTok. Com this morning, probably, and barely found me. It's the first...

Opened an account today.

That's okay.

My favorite are the fact that you have an army of people around you that all of your followers will be like, You got to see this shit. Because I I do think my algorithm has correctly structured that I don't get the nonsense that people then tag you in. When I see you've stitched a video, I'm like, This is great. I've never seen this video before. And the minute they open their mouths, I'm like, you got on the Internet. You were like, this is what people need to hear.

The arrogance, truly. I wish I... If I could just harness It's just an ounce of it, I could take over the world. You know what I mean? The arrogance and the confidence.

The audacity. Right, exactly. It's mind boggling. So how do you decide when you read comments or get tagged in a video, how do you decide what's the vetting process for responding to someone or a video?

I mean, at this point, I feel like in the beginning, it was just if it was getting a lot of attention and it was tagging me a lot, I I would do it no matter what. Now I feel like I've cleaned the streets a little too good, so they do hide from me pretty well now, which doesn't stop people from finding them. Like you said, I always compare myself to Varus in Game of Thrones. I got birds everywhere, bitch, and they'd be singing to me. I always say they'll drop them at my altar, like an offering, and then I come and I collect. Now I feel like I just choose based off what makes me laugh, specifically. Because it's always the same shit. It's nothing new, it's nothing different. It's always like, Has anyone ever thought about... It's the most basic line of misogynist thinking ever heard in existence. The amount of men I've seen in 2024 say shit I've heard fucking 20 years ago, let alone two. I started getting bored. Now, unless I have just an absolute banger of a joke, I'll just ignore it. Most times. But if I have an absolute banger, I'm like, Yeah, I'm going to stitch this one.

Even though... If I got a really good one up here, I'm like, I'm going to fire this one-off for sure. It always does well because I can tell when it's going to do well. But now I think I just pick based off what I want to laugh at. I know my audience will laugh, too, because they have the same humor I do, and they know me well enough by now. But yeah, that's how I pick now. In the beginning, it was a free-for-all. Now, I'm a little more specific.

Okay. Do you ever worry about giving these people more attention when you respond? Because I know that you've made multiple TikToks about how you will stitch people, and then suddenly the video disappears and you were like, Oh, you didn't want to say it with your whole chest. You wanted to sit, but, Oh, sit back down. That's cute. That was cute. You tried.

Well, yeah, exactly.

But do you ever think like the D3O lineman, now he's coming with more nonsense, do you ever worry about that, or do you just hold faith that your 8 million plus followers are going to be like, We knew you were going to get that one?

I think it just depends, I think, because I do exercise quite a bit of discernment when stitching people because there are some things that I think are truly so awful that they don't deserve to be platformed at all. No one should ever have to look. It's discerning between a man who truly thinks he's God's gift to this Earth and someone who's a fucking grifter. Now, I think I don't ever worry about it giving them attention because I don't stitch anything unless I truly know they thought I was never going to see it or they thought they really were going to hurt my feelings, which is hilarious. Like, Oh, yeah, you're the guy. Believe it, believe me, you, you're not the guy to get me. The one...

Again, a perfect segue. My producer, Queen Emma, she has pulled a couple of comments that we've gotten over the last couple of weeks. Perfect. Specifically, and these are not nearly as egregious as some of the things that you have come for. But one of the most common questions recently associated with, not going to lie, has been, who the fuck is Kylie, Kelsey?

If it helps, they say that shit about me, too. So if it helps. They say it about me, too.

My reaction to this is I can't get over the fact that you actually typed this into Twitter. When you could have typed it into Google. And also you typed my name, so now you know what you're going to get. More Kylie-Kelsey content.

Sometimes men will comment on my videos and they'll say, well, the fuck is this ugly bitch on my timeline? And I say, Well, the fact that you comment, I'll see you again. I'll see you in a little bit. I'll see you in a couple of scrolls, twin. I'll see you in a little.

That is the part that has blown my mind. The other comment that has been a common occurrence, which Queen Emma also pulled is, So tired of anything, Kelsey. This lady is not good, very amateur episode, which I've been fucking saying about my own. First of all, I already said that.

It's old. Also, every podcaster in the history of time is an amateur when they start because there's no podcasting school and there's no license, clearly, because we have the worst men in the world buying microphones and saying things into them that everybody has heard for centuries. So everybody's an amateur. Hello.

Yes. This is a while ago, I had talked to my producers about, do we do a segment on algorithms and explain to people that if you engage with the content and if you write my name and shit, you're just going to keep getting me on your timeline.

I can't even tell you many men who talk shit on me still. I have said before, I'm like, I will continue to live our relationship of a symbiotic. You will never stop being awful, and I'll never stop fucking you up and being successful off of it. So it's a win-win for me.

Well, look what the cat dragged in. Me. Don't Duncan Kylie. Duncan Kylie is shockingly similar to regular Kylie. She's just extra prepared to hit you with 32 years worth of butter pecan-infused wisdom. And she only shows up for two one-minute segments in the episode, so enjoy her while you can. I've talked to you guys about my pregnancy cravings before. This time around, it's been mostly aversions, but I did crave vanilla frost donuts when I was pregnant with Ellie. This baby seems to be partial to a glazed donut, and I don't blame her. Once I have my baby, there absolutely will be a moment where the switch flips and I head right back to my full calf, butter, PCAM, where I belong. In the meantime, Duncan has plenty of decaffinated options. And as I've shared with you guys before, you can always order my favorite drink, Half Caffe, which is my current situation. Whether your craving is pregnancy-related or just a regular old craving, you can find what you're looking for at your local Duncan. Now, as someone I personally have struggled with in my life, no longer really do, because I've come to the point of really not giving a fuck.

Period.

Love that.

I am 5'11.

To get into it.

I've always been taller than most guys.

A big bitch, period. I love that.

Here's the thing. I, first of all, love the way that you talk about body positivity, the The fact that you post workout content and just the fact that you prioritize your health, your strength, and also you say it first. The self-identifying factor I felt was a turning point in my life, where my dad is 6'9. If I went anywhere with my family, I always felt normal size. My dad was I can go anywhere with my family. It's funny because I would be with my husband and his fellow offensive lineman, I'd be like, Oh, this is... I feel normal size.

Right, exactly. You said, I'm so small. Look at me. I'm so petite.

I'm a small girl. Look at me.

I'm so petite. Look at me. Yeah, hell yeah. I'm dainty.

But I will tell you before any other situation, high school, I went into high school, I'm pretty sure I was already 5, 10 as a freshman. Let me tell you something, the boys were not. The boys were not 5, 10. And specifically, I got ruthlessly bullied by a couple people, one of which the worst of them, I would say, or one of the worst of them was a guy who's in So it was always like, you're huge, you're a man. And it was always like... And it took me until probably my senior year to be like, Oh.

Yeah.

Oh. You're mad that you're not my size.

Yeah, for real. You're like, You got damn right. So I would lower my voice if I were you. You're right. I'm a full-grown man, bitch. I would lower your voice if I were you.

Speak up when you talk to me because I can't hear you from up here. Exactly. It's coming in mousy, okay? What are some things that are important to you, specifically, about that body positivity, the way you talk about yourself? Yeah. And how has that How did that shape you in your life?

I'm happy to hear it. You're a big bitch like me. I'm 6 feet tall. I was 5'4 when I was 10. So your dad's big as fuck. My dad's big, too. My dad is 6'6. My dad's 6'6, my mom's 5'3. So my mom is this big.

My mom's 5'2.

There you go. Look at us. Then my older sister is 5'4, and I'm 6 feet. Then my younger brother is 6'1, 6'2. I relate so heavily to you saying I've always felt like this was a normal size. Me too. I knew I was tall when I started going to school, obviously, and when I really hit my growth spurt because I was 5'4 when I was 10, so it was like fifth grade, sixth grade, I was 5'4. Then when I went into seventh and eighth grade, I grew four inches in a year. So I was 5'8 when I was in eighth grade. They were like, Who's this grown man coming to the middle school? It's me. I've always been big as fuck. I've always been much larger, not just in height, but also just I'm a thick girl, too. I've always been a big body Benz. When I went to high school, my freshman year of high school, I grew again. I was 5'9 when I was 14. I remember I tore my ACL that year, so I tore everything in my knee. Then I got an MRI and then X-rays and all that shit. I remember my doctor at the time was like, Oh, it looks like your growth plates are pretty clothes, you shouldn't be growing anymore.

I said, Do you fucking promise? Do you promise? Promise me. Promise me I'm not going to grow anymore. Because I was so sick of being tall at the time. I never cared in middle school. But then when I got to high school, obviously, I'm like, I I'm bigger than everyone, including most teachers. I'm like, Hello. I'm so huge. My sister has been 5'4 since the sixth grade, so she's way shorter than me. I never really cared in terms of friends, but obviously, when you're unpacking your internalized misogyny and you're going through puberty and all of that stuff, men being much shorter than me. I remember a couple of guys said they wanted to take me to prom when I was a sophomore, but they said I was too tall. I think what helped me was my family. My mom would tell me a lot. She's like, You're never going to look like other girls like that, but that's okay. The way you look is not bad. Everybody looks different and everybody is beautiful in their own ways. I I'm like, Whatever, mom, you don't get it. But now I feel really grateful for how tall I am.

I love being tall. Now I never don't wear platforms. I wear platforms all the time. I think I really unpacked it when I was in college, too, when I was working through my internalized misogyny. As far as body neutrality is typically what I like to practice now, which is I want to feel grateful for my body as it is and what it does for me, but I don't want to feel anything about it that's good or bad. I just want to feel gratitude towards it. That's what I've been practicing as an adult now, because bodies are so temporary. Beauty is fickle. It fades with time, and it's so subjective. I feel like that was a huge catalyst for me, unpacking my internalized fat phobia. To not be afraid. Afraid, fat is not a bad word. Fat is not a denigrating word. Sociologically, we've given that word a lot of power and a lot of negativity, where fat is nothing more than an adjective. It's a descriptor. It's neither good nor I think me making that a pillar in my platform has really helped my audience understand that when men levy shit like that against you, it doesn't mean anything.

Now, the idea of body neutrality, you speak about that in your book, Loud?

Yes. I love the idea of looking at a word like fat and saying, Yeah, it is.

It's an adjective. It's it's a word. Because I do think that through my experience with people taking issue with my size, they've always tried to use words that when directed towards a woman who's supposed to be dainty, who's supposed to be fragile, who's supposed to be this delicate something. You're going to look at me and be like, You're huge. Yeah, I fucking am.

Yeah, and so is this wallet. Get into it, bitch.

What are you talking? Yes, I'm huge. I'm big. There was a period of time where I was like, Don't call me big. I would be like, I'm not big, I'm tall. I'm not big, I'm My thighs aren't big, I'm strong. There was this whole idea that I had to switch the narrative of not allowing those words to hold the weight that they expected them to hold with me. Yeah, totally. And I just think it's so amazing that you're not only writing books explaining to people how to handle this, but also that you've dove into your own experiences to be able to work through it and to Again, a mom of almost four girls. I just appreciate that you're having these conversations and that you are normalizing the idea of not allowing other people to determine your self-worth. Totally. Because anyone can look at you and an opinion about how you look or what you bring to the table. But at the end of the day, as long as you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of the night and say, Am I kind? Am I a good person? Those types of things.

Who gives a fuck if you tower over every kid in your class? Amen. I cannot thank you enough for chatting with me today. Oh my gosh, of course. And doing all of the things that you're doing. Thank you. I am forever cheering on and double tapping so that you get the engagement from someone who wants to keep you on there for you, Paige, and timeline.

Same. And I'll do the same.

I appreciate it. I am so excited to see what's next for you. And thank you again.

Oh, my gosh. This has been so much fun. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. This has been so much fun. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I do really quickly want to give you your flowers, too. I think it's incredible what you're doing. I think your husband is fantastic and a Hall of Famer. I think what he's done for the sport has been incredible. But more importantly, having someone like you by his side, I think is incredible. It is really hard to be the wife of a football player and let alone raise a family. Trust me, I know. I want to give you your flowers. I think you're incredible and fantastic. I think you entering the podcasting space, it can only be good. There's only good things that can come from it. I think you're wonderful. I think you keep his ass in line, and that's period. That's on fucking period. He's in a house full of women? Yeah, I love to hear it.

Isn't that so great?

Girl, I love it. It's truly the best thing ever. I think having someone like you as their mom is incredible. I think mothers are just superheroes. You have truly conquer death four times, which is crazy. I think that's incredible. I think you're amazing and so admirable. I'm honored to have been on. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much again to Drew for joining me. Once again, these episodes are capped at 45 minutes, so you'll be able to find even more clips from our conversation on more Shit Mondays on my YouTube channel. And that does it for episode four of Not Going to Lie. I'll be back next Thursday with a brand new episode. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Follow the show on all social media @nglwithkiley. Not Going to Lie is a wave original brought to you by Duncan. Thank you guys for tuning in..