Transcript of What is the UNFORGIVABLE Sin? (EXPLAINED) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Whenever Jesus says that there is one sin that cannot be forgiven, you should pay attention.

If you don't care, that might be a bad sign.

Jesus is better at rescuing and restoring you than you are at sinning and falling.

Jesus knew every sin that you would ever commit before you even lived. He knew what he was getting into when he purchased you on the cross.

Well, hey, Live Free Nation, before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Pointe. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend, and now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. This is a bonus episode. My name is Carlos Arazo, and I'm here today with the one and only, the unique Epistle Missile, Chad G.

Paulsee. Paul Cunningham. What's going on, man?

It's good to be back with you, man. I think some people were worried that we were not gonna be friends after last week's special Q&A on, on magic and movies and stuff like that.

You made it so soft, man. I was—

It was so relaxed. The second that was over, people should know the first things out of your and our mouth was, oh dude, that was tame compared to sometimes how you and I can be. But anyways, we're still friends, still brothers in Christ.

You know, for the most part. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

But just for people who maybe just—

I'm not bitter or anything. You know, I know you might be a little bit. That's okay. You put some good licks

on me But hey, a couple of things with that.

What did you say? What'd you say?

Good licks. Like good shots or punches.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

That's probably a Southern expression.

I've never heard that one before. Okay.

Okay. But now a couple of things for people who may have missed last week's episode. We're kind of doing a test drive right now of 4 weeks of Carlos and I doing some midweek Q&As. Some of these are evergreen questions that people always ask us. Others are questions that people may have sent us us in, into us. Um, some of these are going to be long. Like that last week was like an hour because it's very nuanced and people can land on different spots on it.

Yeah. And somebody was right and the other person was wrong. Go ahead.

Exactly. We won't say which was which. Other episodes like this one are going to be a little tighter. There's, there's a direct answer to the question. So we just want these to be helpful and help answer questions that people are asking.

That's right, man. So before we start, first of all, if, uh, let us know if this is helpful. Yeah. Uh, obviously to be able to pull this off, we have to do a little more homework. Yeah. And we wanna be prepared whenever we have an opportunity to, obviously we value the fact that we get to be in your, whatever, as you're driving in your living room, whatever it is. So if you could do this, that would be really helpful. If you can go on YouTube or Spotify, let us know in the comment section if this is helpful or not. Um, if you have additional suggestions for a future question for like a quick little deep dive, we'd love to hear from you. So let us know in the comment section. So here, here's where we're going today. Um, Paul, The Bible says that every sin can be forgiven.

Amen.

Except one.

Oh crap.

So question for today is, what is the unforgivable sin? And what does it mean to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

Okay.

That's what we're gonna be asking.

Okay, good.

So, uh, here's where we're gonna go real quick. Um, so we're gonna go 3 things the unforgivable sin is not.

Yep.

We're gonna be, uh, Jesus is using the term here, blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. We're gonna be answering what, what exactly does that even mean?

Yeah.

Um, We're gonna transition to a couple of questions that were submitted and sent our way regarding people asking about some of their personal struggles and how this applies to this particular question. And we're gonna be addressing how to address a sin stronghold in your life. And we're gonna be wrapping with pastoral thoughts. So, uh, that's

good. Well, hey, real fast on this. Now, I actually would love for you to read the passage that is coming from. There's multiple places in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. I want to read, have you read the one in Mark. Um, man, I get this question a lot. Yeah. I think we did a brief thing on a podcast before on it, but that's because we get this question a whole lot. 'Cause people read this and like, well, what does that mean? And then often what'll happen is people will just be so worried. Have they committed the unforgivable sin? And so therefore they're lost. And I wanna go ahead and give a quick pastoral word.

And by the way, that's how it should be. Whenever Jesus says that there is one sin that cannot be forgiven, you should pay attention.

If you don't care, that might be a bad sign.

You'd be like, well, I would like to know which sin that is.

But that being said, I'm gonna go ahead and give some counsel 'cause we're gonna get to pastoral forward at the end. If you're worried that you've committed the unforgivable sin, you don't need to worry about that. And I'll explain why in a little bit. But that being said, why don't you actually read the passage from the book of Mark and where Jesus says these words?

Yeah. So it's interesting, Paul, actually there are 3 gospels that tell this story, uh, the same one, and it's Matthew, Mark, and Luke. And so I'm gonna read it from the book of Mark. Let me give you a little bit of context before. So, uh, what you're seeing in this context, in this passage is Jesus is healing. Uh, he heals a blind and a mute demon-possessed man. And that point, the crowds are looking at it and they're amazed, and they start asking questions like, man, could this be the Son of David? Could this be the Messiah? But then the Pharisees are also there in the crowd, and the Pharisees and the scribes, they accuse Jesus of casting out demons by Beelzebub when they see Jesus do this. Uh, Beelzebub is the prince of demons. We can answer that here in a second. But after that, Jesus says something along the lines of, hey, uh, a kingdom that is divided against itself cannot stand. Hmm. And that if Jesus is casting out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom has come amongst them. And then he issues this warning. So Mark 3:28, this is what it says.

This is Jesus speaking. Truly I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of men and whatever blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.

All right. So let's now, having read the text, let's talk about 3 things that this is not. And then we will give really crystal clear clarity on what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and therefore the unforgivable sin, is. So 3 things the unforgivable sin is not. Number one, committing a really bad sin. So like going off and murdering someone, committing adultery, not saying anyone should do these things, but some people think, oh—

Those are still sins.

Those are still sins, and they are not things we should do. But some people think, oh, maybe that's the unforgivable sin, is a really big bad sin. Why would that not be the case? Why is that not what the unforgivable unforgivable sin.

Yeah. So, uh, just to emphasize, so committing a really bad sin is not the unforgivable sin. Okay. So first of all, when you read this passage, you have to realize, uh, Jesus begins the famous unforgivable sin passage by emphasizing how extensive forgiveness is. Um, including he even says forgiveness for blasphemies. So let me— we just read Mark. Let me just read Matthew. Matthew 12:31. Therefore I tell you, this is Jesus, uh, speaking, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people. Like This is the whole point of the gospel.

Yes.

That forgiveness is extensive, that his grace is extensive. So if somebody's here listening to this, here's what you need to know. The gospel says your sin is actually worse than you realize. It is so bad Jesus actually had to die and shed his blood on a cross because of that sin. That's right. So it's worse, but at the same time, his grace is much greater. It's much, much greater than you could ever hope. And so Jesus gives up his life because he loves you that much. And in Christ, because of his blood and because of what he did on the cross, you are embraced, you are covered, you are forgiven, you are accepted, you are redeemed, and you are now a son and a daughter of God. So that, that's one thing that you need to— you have to start there. Um, also, Paul, in this passage, Jesus also, he, he says even, uh, the sin of blasphemy can be forgiven. So he specifies, it seems like there's a, a particular kind of blasphemy, uh, that is, uh, this, this different than the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Uh, blasphemy would be, uh, speaking about God in a way that insults, slanders, or dishonors God.

Yeah. to make it clear, blasphemy is a very bad sin.

Yes. Yeah. We're not saying you should go and do these things.

It's, uh, these are terrible sins. Uh, but you know what's interesting too? Do you know who else blasphemed?

I think I know who you're talking about.

The Apostle Paul.

Yeah.

1 Timothy chapter 1, verse 13. He says, though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. The Apostle Paul says, hey, actually I was one of those guys. Um, but I was forgiven. If you keep reading in that same verse, he says, but I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief. And so again, to your point, even quote unquote, some of the quote unquote worst sinners or worst sins like blasphemy, they can be forgiven. So keep going.

Yeah. And like with the Apostle Paul, what I love about his story, this is a guy, he persecuted the church and he even was a part of putting Christians to death. So he was a murderer.

He called himself the chief of sinners.

Yeah, in this text, he actually says like this, saying and trustworthy, deserving of full acceptance, that Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. In the context, the point that he's saying is, hey, if Jesus could save me and all the awful things I've done, he can save you too. I love, I think it was Spurgeon, Charles Spurgeon, great British preacher from the 1800s, who gave this analogy. It's like, man, the worst that you've done and all of your sins combined, it's the idea of like, hey, you need grace and forgiveness for that, but there is more grace and mercy in Jesus than there is sin in you. And so he gives this analogy. It's almost like, imagine taking a cup and taking it to a river and filling up that cup. Your cup is full of grace, but the river has no idea that any water is missing. That's how much grace there is in Jesus. Wow, that's good. And so Jesus's grace is more than enough to forgive of any sins, including the really, really bad sins. So that's one thing that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not.

Another thing is it's not asserting something false about the Holy Spirit. So blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not simply asserting something false about the Holy Spirit. Why would we say that, Carlos?

Yeah. So saying something that is not true about the Holy Spirit doesn't mean it's the unforgivable sin. No. Um, although it matters, by the way. Yes, it really matters. Uh, getting your theology, uh, of the Holy Spirit wrong doesn't necessarily mean it's an unforgivable sin, although obviously your theology matters. The— this, this one also happens with, especially with unbelievers. And I know this because I remember even growing up with my non-Christian friends, it would— this would happen all the time. Being offensive to the Holy Spirit careless about the Holy Spirit or scoffing or mocking things of the Holy Spirit, especially when, again, when you're talking about somebody who doesn't even know Jesus yet, that's not necessarily an unforgivable sin. In Acts chapter 2 at Pentecost, the Bible says some people were mocking Spirit-filled disciples, accusing them of being drunk and making fun of what the Holy Spirit is doing. And several verses later, Peter calls the crowd to repent. Yes. And the Bible says around 3,000 people were saved. And so again, those are sins.

Yes.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that they've done something that is unforgivable.

That's the key is we're not saying these aren't sins and these aren't serious. What we're saying is these are not unforgivable sins. I love that you pointed out the very people who falsely attributed something about the Holy Spirit were the people who were verses later saved by the Holy Spirit. Very, very big thing. One final thing that the blasphemy of the Spirit is not, then we will finally tell you simply what it is. But one another thing is not, is simply anyone who rejects Christ. Why would we we say that that is not the blasphemy of the Spirit? It's simply anyone who rejects Christ. Why is that not an unforgivable sin?

Yeah, because that's probably the story of a lot of Christians today.

That's exactly right.

For many years in their life, they opposed Christ, they rejected Christ, and at some point, by the grace of God, they were saved. Another one of my favorite examples of this, even of somebody who followed Jesus closely and failed miserably after, in the Bible, in Matthew 26, the Bible says Peter denied Jesus 3 times. And if you read that story carefully, you know, we hear about this, we're like, oh yeah, Yeah, we remember that, bro. That's a huge deal.

Kind of a big deal.

Peter knowingly spoke falsely about Jesus. He's like, I got nothing to do with Jesus. He, he— the Bible says he even invoked a curse on himself and swore, I do not know that man. You know what that sounds like? Rejection of Christ.

Yes.

And yet Jesus forgave him and restored him and commissioned him and used him mightily to make a difference in the kingdom of God. So to your point.

Yeah. And I've heard it said before, like a study has been done where it takes at least 7 times of sharing the gospel with someone before that person generally responds positively. And that's on average. So there could be many more. So that means that there were at least 6 times, if not more, where initially they rejected Christ or were indifferent to him. And so again, we're not saying that anyone who rejects Christ, that's not a bad thing. We're saying that that is not unforgivable because Unforgivable, because otherwise it's like, well, you had your one chance and again, and you blew it. That's not the case here. That's not the case here.

Okay. So Paul, what is then, you said what is not, so what is the unforgivable sin?

I'm going to give a clear answer here in a minute, because I actually think it's in the text. We stopped a verse short of where I think we get the clear answer. But what I want to do is also use this as an opportunity to help teach people of how do we read the Bible? And so we do want to give a clear, easy answer, but I'm also always like, hey, I think the analogy that even John Piper once used is like, hey, I could just give you a meal or I could teach you how to cook, and then you can also learn how to prepare your own meal. Wow. So we are going to give an answer, but I also want to say, hey, here's a simple way of how to do this when you get to tough questions like these. There's many principles of being a good Bible reader and interpreter, but 2 that I think are appropriate here. Number one, we don't read a verse or a couple of verses in isolation in the Bible, but we read them together with other verses. So for example, it does say that whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but he is guilty of an eternal sin.

And yet Matthew 11:28, Jesus says, come to me all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. John 6:37 says, whoever comes to me, I will never cast out. What it doesn't say is, oh, but I guess if you've committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit— Whoops. Oh, whoops. And I'm going somewhere with this, but just stick with me. Romans 10:13 says, for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Now, those don't invalidate what Jesus also said here, but we got to read these in conversation with each other. So I think this is a really simple way to think about this, is that if it says whoever comes to me, I will never What we should not imagine happening is, oh, you commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which we'll talk about what it is again here in just about a minute or two. We're going to get there. I promise.

Dude, the suspense is just—

The suspense is killing us, killing us. What I don't want people to imagine is, oh, you do that and then later you feel bad about it and you come to Jesus and he's like, too bad, bro. You committed the one sin I'm not willing to forgive. We shouldn't imagine people coming to God and begging for forgiveness and him saying, No. Instead, I think we got something else going on here. Second, a good key for interpreting scripture is to read it in its entire context. You gave us some of the background, but here's a key part in Mark that happens right after. So it says, whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. Verse 34. And anytime you see a word like that in scripture, you got to like, this is an old cheesy pastor thing. Say it. Say it. But if you see the word, For or therefore, it is there for a reason. And so you have to, okay, what is happening here? Whenever you see the word for, it is explaining what happened before it. So it says, for they were saying he has an unclean spirit.

So right there we get the answer of what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. As you had said earlier, these scribes were seeing all these miracles that Jesus was doing. And so they say, hey, you're actually casting out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, which we see also in the same text is Satan. Because Jesus is like, dude, are you saying that Satan cast out Satan? Like, Jesus is really saying, like, so let me get this straight. Your logic is, is that Satan has empowered me to cast himself out. Why in the world would he do that? Unlike the Apostle Paul, who says that he acted in ignorance, Jesus is looking at them and saying, hey guys, you see the truth, but you're so against me that you're willing to attribute what I'm doing, which by the way, the Gospels say is done by the power of the Holy Spirit. You're willing to say that what I'm doing, which is done by the power of the Holy Spirit, is actually done by demonic spirits. These guys were so far gone that in order to reject Jesus, they are willing to attribute the work of God to the work of Satan.

That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So

I'll say it again. Yeah, go ahead.

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin, is where you make a active and specific, and I would say a decisive— it's not just simply saying this out loud flippantly. It is a decisive choice that you declare the person and work of Jesus as being demonic in origin. That's the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And so here's what I would say is we shouldn't imagine again that these people are later going to come and say, I'm sorry, and Jesus is like, nope, sorry, too bad.

Why not?

The idea is that they are simply so far gone, where else do they have to turn to? That they think that he is literally evil and that he is Satan himself, and they're rejecting the Holy Spirit's testimony about him, they are so far gone, they're never going to come to him. They're never going to come.

Their hearts are so hardened.

And again, these specific people, not all Pharisees and scribes were like this. We see in the book of Acts that some scribes and Pharisees and priests came to Jesus. He's talking to a specific group of people. Interesting. So now let's go back to the initial pastoral word that I gave. I said, hey, if you're worried that you've committed this sin, you actually have nothing to be worried about. And this is why, is if you have committed the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and you actually think that Jesus is demonic, you would not care about offending him. The very fact that you're worried that you have committed the sin is evidence that you have not committed this sin. So here's like, the only unforgivable sin is unforgiven sin. The only unforgivable sin Is unforgiven sin. As you've said earlier, Jesus came and he died on the cross in order to forgive us of all of our sins. Why is this the unforgivable sin? Because the people who commit the sin are never going to come to Jesus to have their sins forgiven. Carlos, does that make sense?

It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, if somebody's like, well, okay, then attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan, that is the unforgivable sin. If somebody were to do it in a way that I guess comes from the heart in a way that their heart has hardened. You're saying that that's it, that that heart has— it's kind of like a point of no return is what you're saying.

Yeah. And there's places in scripture where it talks about how God sometimes hands people over to their sin and he allows them to be hardened in it. I think that's the picture we got to get here is that these particular people were so hardened that they thought that what Jesus was doing was actually by the power of Satan. They're so far gone. They're never, ever going to come to Jesus for forgiveness. And that's why it's unforgivable. He hands them over to their sin and allows them to live in it.

That makes sense, man.

Now, with this being said, I hope that gives some clarity to people. I know we had to wait a few minutes to get there. Again, we did that because I wanted to show people it. We could have just given an easy answer that took us 1 or 2 minutes. We wanted to show you how do you actually read the Bible well? So even what you were doing, Carlos, when I was asking you, what is it not? You were going to other places in scripture to help us understand that.

Can I ask you something though?

Yeah, please do.

Because I feel like some people define it like, oh, it's an ongoing thing against, uh, God or against the Holy Spirit. It's an ongoing rebellion against it. Yeah.

That's why I said decisive.

Yeah.

So when I said decisive, I mean, it is like, hey, you have made your stand. You think that Jesus is like, again, not that you see, you don't, it's not simply that you don't believe he's the Messiah. You think he's demonic. You think Jesus is satanic. And I hope you, even people hear that.

That's so specific.

That is so specific. And that is so extreme that it's not that we don't need to be mindful of it at all. It's just, I hope this helps people understand that your average ordinary Christian, you're not in danger of having committed this.

Yeah.

You're not in danger of having committed this sin. Now, that being said, what's interesting about this, Carlos, and this is where we want to go to some pastoral words and pastoral advice, because oftentimes I'll get messages about this sin in conjunction with Christians struggling with ongoing sin in their lives. In fact, I've got a few messages. I'm not going to read them word for word, but I'll sometimes get messages on Instagram and Facebook. And by the way, for those of you who send it, I'm terrible sometimes at responding. these in very, in very time-sensitive ways.

So Paul's got nothing to do, guys.

I apologize for that. I try to prioritize scrolling

TikTok

every day, family and my church. That I definitely do not do. So sorry for anyone who sends stuff.

And by the way, when Paul scrolls TikTok, it's, uh, it's theology. It's like, you know, old theologians, very boring, uh,

feed. It's, it's guys like

Carlos Serrano, Jonathan Edwards, you know, uh, transcripts being read by somebody in a university with a PhD or something like that.

Is there something wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with it. It's, I'm just saying, I'm just painting a picture for people to understand when I say scrolling TikTok.

I'm starting to feel a little ashamed and a little convicted there.

You're getting a little too close to home. No, I'm not. It's a flex. It's a flex.

Any good ways? All right. So I've got some messages from people. I think I've got one on Facebook that goes something like this. Hey, Pastor Paul, I hope it's okay to ask this. I've been a Christian for a while, but I still struggle with sin in so many areas. It feels like I make progress for a little bit and then end up right back in the same pattern. It's not just one thing, it's all kinds of things. It says, I know we're saved by grace, but the fact that I keep struggling makes me wonder if I'm really saved at all. Another person on Instagram sent me a message. So this is, sorry, this is kind of a heavy message. I've been stuck in the same sin for a long time. Keep promising God I'll stop, but then I fall back into it again. I sometimes wonder if I've committed the unforgivable sin. So people will be struggling with sin thinking, okay, am I actually saved? Or hey, maybe the fact that I keep struggling with this specific sin or sin in general, maybe that's a sign that I've committed the unforgivable sin. So like, Carlos, we've already established that the unforgivable sin isn't this.

It is literally attributing the work of God and Jesus to the work of Satan. But that being said, I do think it'd be helpful to help maybe give some counsel to people out there that are struggling with maybe in general with sin in their lives, or maybe it's a specific stronghold in their lives. Carlos, what would you say in terms of just any pastoral counsel to someone who may be not using those exact words that those people use, but maybe has that general feeling? What are some pastoral words that you'd give to people?

Dude, first of all, to the people that are writing these, and I get some of these once in a while, Well, um, let me, let me say this, uh, that I really, uh, the posture of the heart of these men and women reaching out, uh, with, with this message is something that, uh, man, uh, man, it's, uh, that the kingdom of God belongs to people with a heart like that. Yeah. Let me say what I mean. Um, Psalm 51:17 says, the sacrifices of God, in other words, what God is looking for, um, are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. And I love this so much because, um, again, when God sees a heart that is Broken and says, man, God, I need you so much. I'm so undeserving of you. Um, and there's so much grace. It's like the heart of the heart of the Father saying, let me just embrace you. Isaiah 66:2 says, all these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the Lord. But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word.

Basically what I'm seeing when I read these messages, that's the fear of God.

Yeah.

That's the fear of God saying, I'm so undeserving of a holy and righteous and good God. And so let me start there. Here's another thing that I would say. This is something that a lot of Christians subtly believe, but it is completely false. And I'm gonna tell you what I mean. The life of a Christian is not marked by never failing. It is marked by what happens when you fall.

Amen.

So this is very practical. Proverbs 24:16, the godly may trip 7 times, but they will get up again. So notice that the verse does not say that those who know Jesus, they never fall. Um, on the contrary, it actually says they fall quite a bit.

Yeah.

It says that those who do know Jesus, they do fall. But what makes them different is that they get back up and they keep their eyes fixed on Jesus. Um, and they keep learning from Jesus. They keep walking with Jesus. They're not putting their faith in their own capacity. They're putting their faith ultimately in the power of the Holy Spirit working through them. So when you read something like this, you need to understand this is not a license to sin. This is power to overcome your sin. So especially if you're struggling with one specific habit or something that's a hidden habit or something that's keeping you stuck in your walk with Jesus, you feel like you keep stumbling over the same thing. You need to understand that the disciple, the life of a disciple, that journey may look like a series of falling down and getting back up. Yeah. Falling down and getting back up. But as you keep doing that, you need to understand that God is working inside of you and shaping you to become more like Jesus. If so, again, if somebody's listening to this right now, and, and you just fell perhaps today, or you said, God, I'm not, I'm not going to do this again, and you just stumble one more time.

Okay, you fell. By the grace and the power of God in your life and the Holy Spirit working within you, you get up and you keep walking. And let me tell you why, and you alluded to this before, Paul. Jesus is better at rescuing and restoring you than you are at sinning and falling.

That's good.

You need to ask God, God, would you give me the faith, the bold faith to believe that the grace of Jesus is stronger than the power of sin in my life?

Yeah. A couple of things really. Now, if you got more, continue. I just wanted to double-click on a few things you said. What we're not saying is that you should have an attitude of, oh, I don't care. I'm going to keep doing whatever I want. That's not what we're talking about here whatsoever. The point is, is that, man, when you do fall down, you do feel a sense of good godly guilt that then motivates you to run to Jesus, And then you get back up and you keep moving forward. And just a practical thing I'll tell people is when you're living with your own sin and with your own junk, you usually can't see the progress you're making day by day, but others actually might see it because you have to live with it every day. You don't see it. Others do. I got to experience this in a practical way, not with sin, but just with my body weight. I think 15 years ago, my first year of marriage, Carlos, I gained £60. It was just really busy, really unhealthy. It was us. No, it was not that. It wasn't us. whatsoever, unless that muscle was fossilized fat.

That was not the case though, man. I gained a lot of weight in a little time, in about a year. And part of that is, by the way, I didn't notice it. It just kind of crept up and crept up and crept up. It does. So by the way, the opposite can be true too. But then I remember I watched a video of myself and I was like, oh my goodness, I've gained so much weight. And so then we did a fitness competition for the staff in our church and I lost £65 in 80 days. It was nuts. And by the way, for the low price of $20, I can tell you how. And I'm joking.

This is not an advertisement.

advertisement for that. Although I'm sure now I'm going to get messages of asking people like, no, but really, how'd you do that?

I'm sure they will.

Another message for another time. But here's what's interesting is I lost a lot of weight in even less time than I gained it. But I'm going to tell you though, I really couldn't see it day by day.

That's right.

I couldn't see it. It still felt like on day 20 or 30, when I think at that point I was dropping £5 a week. So at that point I was probably about 15 to £20 down. I didn't see it because I was living with myself every day. And so usually it It was snapshots of pictures over time, or people would come up like, dude, you've lost so much weight in the last couple of weeks. The reason I'm just saying this for encouragement is sometimes the reason people feel the way that they felt and those messages I read is because you live with yourself every day and you don't see it. So I will say this is part of why it's important to be in community because other people might be able to say, hey, actually, dude, I've seen a lot of progress in you. So just keep going. I want to double-click on those things.

Anything else that you would say? That's what I got. All

right. Here's a few things I'd say. And really this is a different way of saying what you already said. I was to give 4 things. I'll give these 4 things. Number one, I think people need to have a realistic understanding of what the Christian life is and what following Jesus is. I love the show. I don't watch it as much anymore, but I used to love the show Fixer Upper or any kind of show that's like that, where you take a fixer-upper house and then they buy it and they fix it up and it looks so much better and it blows people's minds. Well, here's the idea is that the first thing I would tell you is this, is they don't fix the home up first before they buy it. Instead, the people buying it know what they're getting into. So just know that Jesus knew every sin that you would ever commit before you even lived, and he died on the cross for it.

Oh, that's so good.

He knew what he was getting into when he purchased you on the cross. So that's the first thing I would say.

And he still did.

And he still did. And number 2 with that is he realized, hey, he was purchasing a fixer-upper. Now you're not a project to him. You're a person he loves. Right. But I will say, he knew that there was a work he wanted to do that started the day you were saved. And it's not going to be complete until the day you either go to heaven or the day that Jesus comes back to earth. There's that scene at the end of Fixer Upper where they peel back this thing and the couple who bought the house, they get to see it and there's this wow transformation moment. That's not going to happen until literally the day we die or the day Jesus comes back. And in between then—

Move that bus.

Yeah. And in between then, guess what? You're a work in progress and I am too. And there's times where I imagine in the show Fixer Upper, usually we see snapshots. I'm guessing if you went day after day, it doesn't feel like a lot of work is being done, but it is slowly. Slowly but surely. But man, that is the Christian life until the day we die. And what I love in that analogy is that there's almost in every episode, there's a time in the middle of the episode where we're like, oh wow, we found something new. We didn't even realize it was there before. Now Jesus did, but guess who didn't? You. So there's going to be things in our Christian walk where, hey, there's going to be stuff he's unearthing and he's not doing that to shame us. He's actually doing that to fix us and to make us who he saved and created us to be. So number one, we just need to have a realistic picture of guess what? The rest of our lives is going to be Jesus working on us because he loves us. That's right. Number 2, I think I'd say focus as much, if not more, on your Savior than your sin.

That's good.

I'll say that again. Focus more on your Savior than on your sin. The point is not simply not to sin. The point is that you would actually fall more in love with your Savior, with Jesus Christ. I remember reading this book called Future Grace by John Piper, and I didn't make it past the first page of the introduction the first time I read it. And it's because I read this line where he said, sin is what you do when you're not satisfied with God. I read that line, Carlos, and I was like, I'm done. I'm done for the rest of the day.

Yeah.

Because it's not simply about me not sinning. It's actually about me delighting in and loving my Savior and my God. Maybe let's use an analogy for like this. In my relationship with my wife, it'd probably be a better use of my time to focus on falling in love with her than simply not cheating on her. Because I could not cheat on her, but that doesn't mean I'm in love with her. Meanwhile, if I focus on simply falling more deeply in love with her, I am actually steel walling myself against cheating on her. It doesn't mean, by the way, I shouldn't take precautions against doing that. It just means that I cannot do certain things, but it doesn't mean I have an active love for my wife.

It does. And every person that's been in love or married or in a healthy Godly relationship, they'll tell you this. When you do fall in love with somebody, you change.

Yes.

You do what it takes. You fight for your family. You fight for your marriage. You change. And again, not because you're trying to avoid something, you're— because you're pursuing someone.

That's good. And that leads great into my next question. And I was going to ask is this, and I got 2 more things, but the next one's going to be a question. Are you truly willing to do whatever it takes to kill your sin? So on the one hand, do focus more on your Savior than your sin, but you get this idea in scripture that we should be actively killing our sins. I forget now what the Puritan was going to kill 'Cause it can come to me later.

I can't believe you can't remember that.

I know. I can't believe it. But he said, be killing sin or sin will be killing you.

Okay.

And even Jesus at one point basically said, man, if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. Now he was using hyperbole there. I don't think people should actually go and do that. But the point is, it's like, I'll talk to guys, like, I'll just be real about this. Guys who maybe have like—

Dude, it was John Owen.

Yeah. John Owen. Come on.

See, I knew it. Come on, bro. It's early. I'm gonna give you a pass for that one.

I hope that was— well, I know that wasn't the unforgivable sin, but it kind of feels like that when I'm in that moment. I can't believe I didn't remember that was a John Owen quote. Listen, he does No.

I thought, what is it? Is he American?

John Owen is not a Dutch name.

Oh, I'm thinking Henry Nowen is what I'm thinking.

Henry Nouwen, yeah.

He's Dutch, right?

Yeah, but he wasn't a Puritan.

Okay.

Anyways, we're getting really theological nerdy right now.

I felt a little judgmental though.

Okay, I need to repent. But again, there's more grace in Jesus than there's sin in me. Anyways, the point is, is that Jesus was using hyperbole to say, hey, do whatever it takes to get rid of your sin. And so I'll often talk to guys sometimes who frankly are dealing with lust and they're looking at stuff on their phones and they're looking looking at stuff on their computers. And I'll look at them and say, hey, would you be willing to give up your smartphone in order to kill this once and for all? Now, I'm not saying this is what everyone should do, but I'm basically, I just sometimes ask the question the first time I meet with them really to say, hey, are you truly willing to do whatever it takes to master and kill whatever the particular sin you're struggling with is? A final thing I would say is this, this is just some practical counsel. The most powerful sin in your life is probably the one you haven't confessed yet. I'll say that again. The most powerful sin in your life is probably the one you haven't confessed yet. Now that might be to God because you're living in shame.

And I'll just tell you right now, again, Jesus knew what he was signing up for you. I mean, what he was signing up for when he died for you. He saw every sin you'd ever commit. And so he actually, this sounds bad, but he expects worse of you than you do from yourself.

Hmm.

He saw all your failures and flaws and he died for you anyways. And so some of it might be that when you sin, you're like, oh, I can't reveal this to God. I can't confess it. He already knows that the best thing you could do is to confess it to him. Psalm 51, what you said earlier. But I'd also say is this also means confessing it to others. And I don't mean that necessarily if you've done something to them, I just mean that you're only as sick as your secrets. I heard Pastor Chris Hodges say that yesterday. You're only as sick as your secrets. Yeah. Also, I've heard this said before, the devil plays in darkness. In my experience, the sins that have the strongest stronghold on my life are the ones that other people don't know about. And so just as a practical admonition is that if you're struggling with a particular sin, I would encourage you, if you don't have it yet, find some community. community that you can be honest about that. Now they can affirm you in your sin, but they can help you conquer your sin by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit.

That's great, man.

The last word, man.

Man, let me just wrap with this. Um, you know, it's just that first of all, everything you just heard is great, Paul. Um, you know, I think if somebody's like, man, it feels like a, it feels like a sin stronghold in my life, what do I do with it? Um, so let me just read the verse here. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 says, for though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war. That's important. We are not waging war according to the the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy— what? Strongholds. We have divine— I'm gonna say it one more time— we have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God and take every thought captive to obey Christ. So as you do everything that Paul just said, um, you need to understand, uh, warfare, the spiritual warfare that you're in To demolish a sin stronghold starts in the battlefield of your mind, and so super quick. Here's what you need to do as well: if you're wrestling with a specific sin or a stronghold in your life, you need to identify because this this warfare happens primarily in the battlefield of your mind.

You need to identify the lie that you're believing. So perhaps it could be man, I am too far gone from the grace and forgiveness of Jesus. I'm too stuck in my sin. I don't think I have. God's done with me at this point. That right there, that's a lie. You have to identify the lie. Number 2, you gotta replace it with what is true. What is true in this case, if that is the lie, Romans chapter 8 says, therefore now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. That is who you are. You are a son and a daughter of God. That is what's true. Number 3, you need divine power. The verse says that what destroys stronghold is not try really hard.

Mm-hmm.

Or, you know, find the next hack or whatever, or listen to the other podcast and that's gonna help you. It says, You need divine power to destroy a stronghold in your life. You need the power of the Holy Spirit working through you. Um, the grace of Jesus is stronger than the power of sin in your life. And, and number 4, I just wanna emphasize what you said, Paul, man, you need to be surrounded by community. Yeah. If you read this verse on how to demolish a stronghold in your life, it says, we are waging war. We destroy arguments. We take every thought captive. Most Christians are trying to destroy a sin stronghold in their life by saying, I, I'm trying, I, I'm working really hard. It's gonna cost. Or, you know, and so you, who, who, who do you have around you that's helping you? Who are you fighting with? Who's the we that you can say, man, we are praying for each other and we are holding each other accountable. And we are, whenever I'm weak, I got somebody to lift my hands up and help me with this. So again, you need the power of God inside of you, but you also need the people of God around you.

That's good. That is so good. I think it'd be good for us to pray for people right now.

Pastor Paul, would you please pray for us?

I will do. Oh God, we thank you. Thank you for your word and how amazing he is, God. We thank you for the clarity you can give us. And what I want to do, pray for people maybe who up to today were so concerned that they had committed the unforgivable sin. God, I want to pray for those people that now that we've shown what the Bible says, Lord, they don't have to live in fear of that. God, I do pray that you would do a powerful work in people's lives who have come to know you. So many of us, Lord, so many people struggling with guilt and condemnation, like that they can't live up to a standard. Help them to Remember, you came and you lived the perfect life they couldn't live, and you lived up to that standard for them. But I do pray now, Holy Spirit, that you would work a powerful work of transformation in people's lives, that, Lord, that they would become more and more of what you created and saved them to be, Lord. By the power of your Holy Spirit and by good Christian community, may you tear down the strongholds that are in our lives so that we became more of what you created and saved us to be.

Amen. It is your name we pray. Amen.

Amen. Live free, brother.

Live free.

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