Transcript of The 4 BIGGEST LIES About Money That Christians Believe | Live Free with Josh Howerton

The key question a Christian has to ask is not how much may I possess, but who or what possesses me.

Greed makes you believe a lie that if you only had just a little bit more, then you'll be happy. Not true. That's a lie. It'll make you miserable.

Prosperity gospel, God wants you to own more. Poverty gospel, God wants you to own less. The biblical gospel is that God wants to own you.

Reload it. What's up, dude?

Reload it? What does that even mean? It's good to be here with you, bro.

Ever since you went to Israel, you're not the same. No, I'm not the same. It's just like you got a little software upgrade or something. That's right. That's right. In my mind, it's, uh, I get to be with Chad GPC Reloaded.

Come on. Well, hey, a couple things. Number one, it's good to have you back, bro.

It's good to be back, bro.

How was Universal?

Uh, you're funny, by the way. Uh, man, I just want to clarify a couple things, uh, now that we're here. Yeah. One, uh, I was not at Universal.

No, you were not.

engaging with unholy spirits. I was not doing that. I was actually at a men's gathering worshiping Jesus and seeking the Holy Spirit is what I was doing.

Yes, you were. And I think I kind of made it a little clear I was joking. Was I not clear enough in the last episode?

Dude, I went for a walk literally on Monday and somebody's like, my neighbor's like, hey, I heard you went to Universal. I'm like, what?

I thought I was clear. I thought that was a joke. My bad, bro.

Anyways. Another thing I want to say. Um, so I don't know if it was last episode or the one before, but you said something about like, You're giving me licks or something. Uh, I just want to clarify. Hold on. What?

You know, getting licks in.

Yeah. I just want to clarify. I don't know what that means. And I want nothing to do with that. I don't want anything to do with licking nothing. Whatever you said.

Oh, whatever you were— that was the Harry Potter episode.

Not— don't want any of that.

That was the Harry Potter episode, which that was— we're doing some midweek Q&A episodes, which by the way, it's been cool to see the response, very encouraging response. We're going to be doing some more of those in the future. But yeah, I talked about getting licks in because you were going to get some. That's like, that's the idea of like, I think like you, that's like embodied Boxing, or even like if you got a spanking. So basically I was saying you were gonna—

Hey, Paul, you know what, bro? Is this getting awkward for you? No, it's not awkward for me. I just, I'm just clarifying.

I don't want anything to do with it. You just don't like the phrase.

No, I just don't want anything to do with that. Whatever, whatever that means. I don't know. I don't

know. I love this. This is making you feel so awkward.

People, people in the comments were like, where is he from? I don't know who said that.

I don't know. Anyways, okay. I was born and raised in, in rural, rural Louisiana.

I'm just kidding. Go

ahead. Okay, Mr. Worldwide over here. I'm kidding. You and people. Hey, we gotta talk about the Bible. We do. Well, hey, before we get there, man, where's Pastor Josh? Where's Pastor Josh at?

Oh dude, Pastor Josh is not at Universal.

No, he is not. No, he is not.

He was actually— he'll be here.

Yes.

Because we have an interview coming up with Pastor Louie Giglio.

Yes.

And bro, it's a great conversation.

It was incredible. Yes, man. Just to encourage people. Yeah, Pastor Josh was just left, but because it was just an incredible conversation and it was so amazing that we decided, hey, you and I are going to handle the ground war. We're going to get into the Bible, as you said. a second ago and help people apply it to their lives. You're going to give us the topics here in just a minute. But we thought, you know what, because it was so amazing, let's just separate it and have it be its own episode that'll be coming out this Wednesday.

This Wednesday, Pastor Josh Howerton with Pastor Louie Giglio. Conversation on a bunch of different things that are— we got to figure out.

And if you don't know who Louie Giglio is, he is just simply one of the honestly most amazing leaders of our generation. I was just able to thank him just for the move that he and his wife, Shelley, have been able to lead called Passion. Started as Passion Conferences, and then also then eventually became Passion City Church and has impacted literally generations of college students. It's an incredible, incredible conversation. Encourage people back this Wednesday. But hey, we're here today, man, and we're diving in more into, into the Breach Sermon Series and diving into— what are some of the topics we're in today?

Yeah, so today we're gonna talk about Matthew 6:33. Paul, this is probably one of the most misunderstood Bible verses, probably from the whole Bible. Like, people will use this verse and, you know, here's what we want to do. We're going to do like a little Bible study. This is how it's going to feel. Uh, we're going to be asking one, we're going to be reading that verse, Matthew 6:33. We're going to be asking, what is the kingdom of God? Um, does God want you and I to be rich? What about people that are not rich? And does that mean that they do not— if somebody is not rich or wealthy, does that mean that they don't have God's blessing? Uh, we're going to differentiate between what some people would call the prosperity theology and the poverty theology.

Because real quick on that, there's other people who would say that actually the poor are more blessed and are better, whereas rich people are—

Because there's Bible verses, right, Paul? So like the Bible says something about poor being blessed. Uh, and how difficult it is for somebody that is rich to enter the kingdom of God. So I wanna ask you about that.

Yeah.

Because I got ChatGPT here and I can, uh, and we're gonna be landing the plane with practical ways to seek first the kingdom of God in our day-to-day life. So we're gonna get really practical.

Yes, we are.

Um, hey man, we are excited because as you mentioned as well, we, uh, we are in our sermon series, a very special one called Into the Breach, as we move as a church to a season of faith and generosity in our church. And so, um, we are doing this, uh, devotional for 21 days. So if somebody, this is like a thing our church, if you want access to it, we have physical booklets. But if you are joining online, you can go to lakepoint.church/itbonline. And I believe, uh, this Wednesday we have a special gathering in our church called Encounter Advance Commitment Night. And this is going to be a special evening of worship, prayer, and responding to the vision God has for us. So, uh, bro, we're excited about that. In person only. Yep. So

we're not live streaming this. Not going to live stream this one, I believe.

I don't believe we are.

Well, and real fast, because especially if people have missed the last couple of weeks, like, oh, like, what is Into the Breach? What does it mean? A breach is a break in a wall. And so we are coming from Isaiah, which talks to us where there's a prophecy given about how you will be called the repairers of the breach. So we believe that there are broken down places in our lives and our world that we believe in this next couple of years, God is calling us as Lake Pointe Church to step into. So one of the things I've loved, Pastor Josh's sermons last couple of weeks, a big thing he's emphasized is, hey, what's broken down in your life and where has the enemy broken in that God wants to repair in the season? But another question we're asking as a church is, hey, what is God calling us to go into in our surrounding area here in DFW, but also around the world? And so as part of this, it's a 2-year discipleship initiative where we're really asking everybody to be all in with us and to do whatever God is calling you as an individual to do, begin personally, but also is what we're stepping into as a church.

And here's a few things we're stepping into. We're going to plant some additional campuses around the DFW area. That's not to build our kingdom. It's a part of building the kingdom. the kingdom of God and seeing more people come to know Jesus and be discipled. We're going to get to translate the Bible into a language that has never been— the New Testament has never been translated into. So there's a group of people in the world that have never heard the Word of God in their native language. And by the grace of God, we're going to be a part of helping that happen.

And we get to be a part of that process.

And we get to be a part of it. We get to be a part of it.

So that a whole people group speaking one particular language for the first time in history can read the Bible, read the New Testament.

It's crazy. It's like even like, you know, the classic, like John 3:16, for God so loved the world that he sent his one and only Son. That's right, man. There's people in the world have never heard that in their native language, and God is calling us to be a part of that. Well, special needs ministry stuff, a lot of different stuff. And so what's going to be happening at Encounter is, in addition to this being a night of worship and prayer and consecration, we're asking people who come in person with us to bring whatever they feel like God is calling them to commit to financially. And we're just saying, hey, prayerfully consider this over the next week. And then when you come on that Wednesday, man, in addition to coming ready to encounter God, come ready to make some kind of a commitment to whatever you feel like God is calling you into.

Man, here's what I would say, man. I don't think people realize the length churches sometimes go to, to make sure that we have financial integrity. Mm-hmm. 'Cause it matters. Here's what we do at Lake Pointe. Like people don't know this, but our finances are actually overseen with strong checks and balances under our CFO and our certified CPA accounting professional team. We have lay elders who are not paid by the church who oversee finances. We have a budget that's presented to and voted on by the church members at our annual business meeting every single year. You and I are there. Um, our financials are given oversight by a board of lay finance team members comprised of non-paid members of the church that review financials throughout the year. And in addition to that, every year Lake Point voluntarily commissions an independent external audit from a third party and more. And so all this to say, um, we take it very seriously. It is a responsibility by the grace of God to steward what God has entrusted us in this season.

Yes. And the reason you're sharing that is because, man, as we are asking people to really prayerfully consider what God is calling them into and, and to give generously and take a big step of faith, we want to reassure And so we want to assure people that we're not taking their money and lining our own pockets, that we're actually doing this responsibly. And that, man, if God is going to call you to take that next big step, we want to help steward that step well. So to your point, we've put in some financial things in place to make sure we have accountability, to make sure we're doing that. So you just wanted to give that to help people understand that, hey, as you're praying about whatever commitment God is calling you into, we're going to take that commitment seriously and handle it well.

That's good, man.

Yeah.

All

right, you ready to dive in?

Let's dive in.

Okay, man.

All right, I can't ask you what didn't make it into the sermon because, you know, You did.

Well, hold on before we go there. Um, oh, can I share a little something? So please, here's something we get. Uh, so people will— I love, Paul, that we're getting in this season, by the grace of God, uh, Live Free Nation is growing. Yeah. And one of my favorite things to see is when, uh, we get a lot of people saying, hey, I'm a brand new Christian and I'm just starting to read my Bible, or I'm a brand new Christian and I'm literally just learning the basics of our faith. And so one, it's really encouraging to hear. Like, people don't even realize how encouraging that is because we talk about this in the lobby with with, with people that come visit all the time. Um, and then people from our church, um, we, we are so encouraged. But here, here's— we try to do a little something to help people, you know. And so let me, let me do a little something that might be helpful. I wish somebody had taught me this, uh, when I was a younger Christian. So what I'm about to do right now is I want to show you how every commandment and everything the Bible calls a sin is actually a warning from God to not hurt yourself.

So in other words, when God says don't, what he is saying is don't hurt yourself. Yeah. You need to see this in scripture because it'll change the way you read the Bible. So let me give you several examples. So let me start, for example, sex before marriage. So it is a scientific fact right now that sex creates a neurochemical bond with another person, not just physically but emotionally. And what that means is basically sex is not just the union of 2 bodies, it is the union of 2 souls. And so when you read scripture and it says, hey, that's not you, That's not what God wants for your life. What God is saying, you don't want that kind of bond with somebody that you barely know. Yeah. Another way of saying this is a condom can protect your body, but it will not protect your heart. And so God says, hey, I love you. Don't, don't, don't go there. Here's another one, lying. When you lie, you eventually destroy the trust of the people around you, especially the people that are closer to you. And what happens is one lie will always lead to another lie and another lie and another lie.

And you end up living a life that is a fake version of yourself. Here's another one, envy. And by the way, envy, you see this literally everywhere on social media, probably more than people realize. Envy is resenting God's goodness in someone else's life while ignoring God's goodness in your life. And again, when you refuse to let that go, you end up living a life of, not of gratitude and joy, but ultimately one of anger and bitterness. Yeah. Here's another one, pride. Pride will, especially in the context of relationships, will make a person care more about being right than making the relationship right. And so pride, what it does is you become incapable of learning and apologizing and growing. Gossip. That's a— gossip is probably one of the worst things out there. Gossip just destroys relationships. Yep. And by the way, if somebody is gossiping to you about other people, Chances are they're also gossiping about you to other people behind your back. Exactly. And so, uh, it is— it destroys relationships. Here's another one: unforgiveness. Um, this one is also a little tougher because when you're in that spot where you have to forgive somebody, you're probably already in pain and in hurt.

Um, but when you refuse to forgive, unforgiveness makes you a prisoner of your past and a slave to bitterness, resentment, and pain. And God says, No, don't. That's not you. Greed makes you believe a lie that if you only had just a little bit more, then you'll be happy. Not true. That's a lie. It'll make you miserable. And finally, lust. We live in a culture that is saturated by lust. Lust just destroys your ability to experience true intimacy in any relationship. Yeah. And this is why our culture struggles so much with marriage. intimacy and relationships. And so God says again, God says, hey, don't hurt yourself. And so here's the point. Deuteronomy 10:12 says, observe the Lord's commands and decrees that I am giving you today because they are for your own good.

It's so good.

And so again, when God forbids something, it's not because he hates you and he's trying to rob something from you. It's because he loves you and he's trying to protect you and he's trying to give you life. And so when he says don't, he's not trying to keep you from enjoying life. He's actually trying to teach you how to truly live it. And so, man, I hope that's helpful. That helped me when I first saw it, and it'll change the way you read the Bible.

Oh, it's so good, because I think some people, especially if you're a new Bible reader, and you're reading all these different commands, you know, God can kind of sound like a killjoy. Sure. Like, but I've heard it said before that he's not a killjoy. He's actually trying to kill the things that would kill your joy and to keep you from the things that would kill your joy. That's it. And so, I love also later after he gives all these commands, he says to the people, I give you 2 ways, the way of life or the way of death. Choose life that you may live. And so instead of viewing all these commands as burdens, see them as blessings. Instead of seeing them as things that— all this, the good things that are trying to— God is trying to keep you from, actually it's because he has something so much better for you that is on the other side of obedience. So it's good, man. You ready to jump in?

Matthew chapter 6. You got a Bible right here? Matthew chapter 6, verse 33. Let me just read the text and, uh, let me just start with, uh, with what it says. Uh, but first But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Let's talk about, um, the context of this chapter. Paul, what is the context of this chapter?

Well, dude, I, I've always known it, but it's come alive in a really special way recently. As you said, when we went to Israel. So let me give some just like contextual context in terms of the, the reading, but then we actually can look at some pictures to kind of get more of a physical setting for that. So Jesus here, this is right in the middle of the Sermon on the Mount. This is where he's giving a very extended teaching on what it looks like to live life in the kingdom of God, which we're going to double-click on here in a little bit and talk about what that means and why it really, really matters, because it does. But yeah, so it's really an extended kind of segment on what that life looks like. And so it's called the Sermon on the Mount, and really it's probably better a sermon on a hill. And we actually, you and I got to go to this, but it's called the Mount of Beatitudes. Yeah. I think we actually got a picture. First picture you can find honestly just online. This is more of an aerial view. So you have here a church that's on the top of, it says a mount, but really It's just a really, really tall hill.

But to give—

We were literally there.

We were there, because I'll show another picture here in just a second of we were on the edge of a fence. So this is overlooking the Sea of Galilee. And to kind of help people understand, so for a long time when I would read the story, I'm like, oh, like Jesus walked a long way to get here, because it did talk about how people traveled far. And some people did. But actually, Jesus lived— after he left Nazareth, he lived in Capernaum, which this became his hometown and is basically his base of ministry for a long time. Capernaum is only a 2 or 3 mile walk from here. And so this boy morning, by the grace of God, he gave me the diligence to get up and go on a little short run. And basically I ran about a couple of miles. So that's the idea of like, hey, Jesus simply walked a couple miles down the road and then walked up a hill and then people gathered to him. And what would've happened is he would've been at the top and everyone else would've been below. I think actually in our next picture, um, I took a picture.

If you kind of look at, if you're looking at a picture, if you're looking at YouTube or maybe the video on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, if you look to the far right side and it's looking down a hill, grass is a little dry. That's where people believe that the people would have been standing looking up as he's on the mountainside. I've got one more picture. It was fenced off so we couldn't get close, but this is really looking down at where Jesus would have been looking. So you can kind of imagine he goes up on the mountainside, on the hillside, people are coming to him and he begins to tell them of what life in the kingdom of God looks like. I actually think you took a video to give people a little bit more context of the Sermon on the Mount and why it matters in the Bible, right?

That's right. So usually there's a lot of people in these places, but whenever we got the opportunity to go, there was There's like literally nobody there except the caretaker of the place.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I did, I took a little video, uh, here. Let me, let's play it, Tranny. I'm standing on the Mount of Beatitudes right now, which is where Jesus delivers the Sermon on the Mount. Now think about this, this place right here is where Jesus delivered some of the most impactful teachings that literally, literally changed history. Love your enemies, turn the other cheek, you are the light of the world, do not worry about tomorrow. Our Father in heaven, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and so many more. Now, tradition says this is the mountain right here that Jesus was on because we know He was in Galilee. And this right here is the Sea of Galilee. Matthew 5:1 says, seeing the crowds, He went up on the mountain. The pilgrim Egeria, writing in the late 4th century, described this hill right here near the Sea of Galilee associated with the Beatitudes, which means Christians were aware of this place around the year 381 AD. Interestingly enough, Matthew gives us 3 entire chapters and 107 verses to tell us what Jesus preached on this sermon given right on this mountain. And what most people don't know is that Matthew, who is primarily addressing a Jewish audience, is presenting Jesus as a new and greater Moses.

In Exodus 19:20, Moses ascends Mount Sinai to receive the law from God. In Matthew 5:1, Jesus ascends a mountain to proclaim the fulfillment in a deeper meaning of the law. In Exodus 18:13, Moses, the Bible says, sat to judge the people and resolve disputes, which, by the way, sitting was the posture of a judge or a teacher who was settling a spiritual or legal matter. Then in Matthew 5:1, Jesus sat on the mountain and He was assuming the role of a new Moses, giving a new Torah, which is the law of the kingdom.

Hmm.

Moses had received the Ten Commandments, which are external laws written on stone. Jesus here was giving the Beatitudes, which are internal truths written not in stone but in your heart. Now check this out. Moses came down the mountain with the law of God written on stone. Jesus came down the mountain showing us what the law of God actually looks like when it is written on the human heart.

Dude, good job, man.

Hey, man.

Good job.

I just learned everything from you.

Oh, stop it. Well, even to make some different connections to some things you said and some other things in the book of Matthew, it's like you mentioned how on the law and on the mountain Moses received the Ten Commandments. Make that connection to there's some places in the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus has said, you have heard it said, do not commit adultery, which we find in the law. find where? In the 10 Commandments. But he says to you, hey, he then says, man, don't even lust after a person. You have heard it said, do not murder. Again, one of the 10 Commandments, but he deepens it. And so, he's not making obsolete, he's deepening it and making it, to your point, interior. Another thing in Matthew you said in terms of he's the new Moses, how many books are in the Torah?

5.

5. How many major addresses does Jesus give in the book of Matthew?

5.

They're trying— one of the things Matthew is trying to show is that this is the new Moses, because Moses at one point said that if there would arise another prophet like him after him, And guess what Matthew is trying to say? Yes, this is that dude. Jesus is that dude.

Again, the Bible's amazing. Does Matthew quote— I can't remember if Matthew quotes the actual verse in the Old Testament where Moses says that.

I think this is the actual one, but it's like, he's basically just trying to say, hey, this is that dude. Again, we'd love to give you these connections. There's so much to show you. Oh, there's so much in there. But, um, that being said, you want to dive into like specifically Matthew 6:33?

Okay, so Matthew chapter 6, again, Sermon on the Mount. And then, uh, Jesus is basically saying, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. So, uh, well, I wanna talk about the kingdom of God. Yeah. And I wanna bring some clarity as to what exactly does that mean. Let me just give you, Paul, real quick, um, 5 things about the kingdom of God that most Christians don't know. So number one, the kingdom of God was actually prophesied in the Old Testament hundreds of years before Jesus. And by the way, we're about to explain what exactly that means. So let me, we'll go there here in just a second. So, um, the Old Testament in the book of Daniel chapter 2, Daniel predicts that one day God will establish a kingdom that Daniel says will never be destroyed. Um, Daniel chapter 7 actually describes someone like the Son of Man receiving an everlasting dominion over all peoples and nations. Now, which was interesting because if you fast forward around 500 to 600 years, here comes Jesus and Paul. What was Jesus's favorite title to call himself or refer to himself?

Son of Man.

He liked to say, or he liked to refer to himself as the Son of Man. Again, it's a prophetic title from the Book of Daniel saying, hey, that guy that the Old Testament prophet, uh, prophesied about, that's me. So again, Old Testament expectation that at some point God would bring in a kingdom that will never end, number one. Number 2, Jesus talks about the kingdom of God more than anybody else in the Bible and speaks about it more than almost anything else, uh, considering everything else that he spoke about. So Jesus talks about faith, salvation, money, possessions, love, relationships, forgiveness, But the topic that stood out the most, the kingdom of God.

That's good.

Which means, again, big deal, because across the 4 gospels, the phrases kingdom of God, and you mentioned it, kingdom of heaven, actually occur around 100 times combined. And again, the interesting thing is it's not so much Jesus just here kind of preaching about what happens when you die and how we get to heaven. It's more, he comes and he says, hey, which by the way, that is something that is part of what Jesus teaches us. says, but he also came and proclaimed the kingdom of God is already here. He uses phrases like, hey, the kingdom of God is at hand, it has come upon you, it is in the midst of you. We're just going to talk about what that means here in just a second. Um, number 3, Jesus's first sermon was about— guess what? The kingdom of God. Uh, Mark chapter 1, verse 14. Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee proclaiming the gospel— that just means good news— of God and saying, the time is fulfilled. And the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. And by the way, this is a big deal. This is like if, uh, let's say a new president is, uh, inaugurated and he's giving his first speech, whatever his first speech is about, it's probably an important thing.

It's setting the tone.

Um, when there's a new CEO in a company and he, again, he's given a first talk, it, it, you have to pay attention to it because again, it basically defines who he is, what he's doing, and where we're going. So number 4, the book of Acts begins and ends with the kingdom of God. So it's not just the gospels. You should go to the book of Acts, uh, birth of the church. And you, it starts in Acts chapter 1, verse 3. It says, he, as in Jesus, presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during 40 days and speaking about the kingdom of God. The kingdom. You go to the end of the book of Acts, Acts 28, verse 30. He, the Apostle Paul, lived there 2 whole years at his own expense and welcomed all who came to him, proclaiming the kingdom of God. proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance. Number 5, the Bible— this is interesting. This is really interesting actually, cuz it also, it helps you read the gospels in this context. Yep. It, it changes it.

The Bible says Satan also has a kingdom. Hmm. In the gospels, Jesus actually himself talks about Satan having a kingdom. And it is interesting, amongst other things, Jesus explicitly presents casting out demons as evidence that the kingdom of God has arrived. arrived. And so again, it's as if like the kingdom of God is invading the kingdom of Satan, the kingdom of darkness. And this is why Jesus, when he said, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it— if you think about it, gates, the whole purpose is— the whole purpose of gates is to keep something out. But Jesus is saying, hey, uh, my church will get in there. The kingdom of God is here and it is invading a kingdom of darkness.

And real, just real fast, I know you gotta— you got a 5th one, so I don't want to distract you, but I always So good point. Like a lot of times people imagine it's like, oh, we're trying to like just repel the attacks they make against us, which by the way, there is some things for that, like Ephesians 6. Uh, but that's the idea is like you march on gates. They don't march on you. And so we're actually called to be a part of what God is doing on planet Earth. And we're called to do damage to the kingdom of darkness on behalf of the kingdom of God.

You know where that is?

What's that?

Into the breach.

Come on. Exactly. Come on.

Let's go, dude. Come on. So last one, uh, and before I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you here in just a second to actually explain what the kingdom of God is. Um, the Bible— so we saw, you know, again, Old Testament prophesies. Yeah. Jesus talks about it. Acts, uh, begins and ends with it. Um, so it's an important thing. And then the Bible actually ends with the ultimate fulfillment of the kingdom of God. So Revelation chapter 11 announces that the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and his Messiah. So we get a little bit of a glimpse of the kingdom of God being fully established forever, which means again And if you keep reading in that verse, there is no more death, no more mourning, crying, or pain. And ultimately that's where our hope is as Christians, that ultimately the kingdom of God will be fully established. And again, if it is important to Jesus in the whole Bible, it should be important to us. So Paul, what is the kingdom of God?

You just did all those things. Like, wait, like, so what is it?

So what is it?

Well, you know, it's so interesting because as you said, um, man, this dominates Jesus's teaching and it's prophesied in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, man, we see it finally fulfilled. And yet I would say it's one of the most neglected ideas by Christians today. And I think a lot of your average ordinary Christians just simply don't know what this is talking about. And so to kind of break it down to an elementary level, I want to really just break down the phrase. And instead of kingdom of God, I want to use another phrase that is used interchangeably, that is the kingdom of heaven. So let's just think about a kingdom. Well, what is a kingdom? Well, a kingdom is a place or a realm that has a king and what he says goes and he rules. He's in charge and others are not. And he has a will for his kingdom and he has a specific way he wants his kingdom and his realm to function. Now, let's talk about heaven. What is heaven? Heaven is the place where everything is exactly the way King God wants it to be. So, heaven is the place where everything is exactly the way he wants it to be.

Now, let's leave heaven for a second and come to earth. Is everything on earth the way God wants it to be?

Definitely not.

No. Now, he is still King of the earth, by the way. You've got, in a sense, he's got a— there's a competing kingdom that Satan has, but guess what? God is the creator and sustainer of the universe. So, he is the ultimate King. It's simply that this earth is in rebellion against the rightful King. So things on earth are not the way they should be, but things in heaven are the way they should be. And so the idea, as you said earlier so well, when it says the kingdom of God is at hand and it's in your midst, and even think earlier, and we're in Matthew 6, earlier in Matthew 6 is the Lord's Prayer. And what does he say? Your kingdom come, your will be done. Where? On earth as it is in heaven. Yeah. So as you said, a lot of Christians have made the gospel simply this: believe in Jesus so you can go to heaven when you die. Which, by the way, is amazing. We should look forward to that. I think you and I are actually going to do a bonus episode soon on what happens when you die. That's right.

We're going to address, hey, what does happen when you die? We'll hit that maybe in a couple of weeks. By the way, so it's amazing, but that's actually not just it, man. Jesus did for sure die so that you can go to heaven when you die, but he didn't just die for that. Actually, the message of the kingdom is that before you go to heaven when you die, you can begin living the life of heaven on earth now before you die. And if I love— there's a great book, I brought it with me. If I can encourage people to read a book, usually like, hey, Israel, you recommend books? This is my top 5. I will say it is dense. It's a little bit of a slog. A little thicker. Yeah. You got to chew on this. It's worth it. This is called The Divine Conspiracy by a guy named Dallas Willard. Book revolutionized my life. And I loved what he talks about in this is he says, man, the kingdom of God and learning to live in it is basically saying it's learning to live the heaven kind of life now.

Bro.

It's basically— Say that one more time, because I think we need to digest it a little bit more. Discipleship is learning to live the heaven kind of life now. So let's make this practical. I don't have to simply wait to go to heaven to begin experiencing it increasingly, never perfectly, but increasingly here. So like, man, if heaven is the place where everything is the way it should be, well, dude, do I want my marriage to be the way God wants it to be? Because earlier you said that, man, like the ways of God are life. And he's actually trying to keep us from the thing that'll kill our joy. That's right. Do I want my marriage to be everything God wants it to be? Because then it could be the best marriage ever. Yes. So actually when I'm learning to do discipleship and I'm learning to do marriage Jesus's way, I'm basically getting to live the heaven kind of life now in my marriage. Man, do I want my job and the way I'm functioning my job to be amazing? And do I want joy? Yeah. You know how I do that is I'll learn basically how to live the heaven kind of life in my job.

and so forth. So basically wrapping it up, in the kingdom there's a king, that's Jesus. Heaven is everywhere, is a place where everything is the way he wants it to be. The kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven invading earth is basically just saying increasingly we want to see earth become more and more a place where God— where it is the way God wants it to be. Anything you want to double-click on there?

I think that's great. You know, and I love, by the way, I agree with you. That's The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard, is one of my favorite books. It's a little head, you know, a little thicker.

Yeah.

Um, slow read, but you gotta take, you gotta take your time, but it's worth it.

Yeah.

Because of what you just said. And it's so true. I think this has been one of the things like, you know, again, growing up in church, um, people think that Christianity is only about what happens when you die. And that's just, it's just not true. You know, people will say, uh, well, man, I accepted Jesus Christ into my heart. Um, that's important. Have you accepted Jesus Christ into your marriage?

That's right.

Have you accepted Jesus Christ into your finances? Yeah. Uh, into your public life, into your job, into your career, into your ambitions, Um, why does that matter? Because, um, Jesus is, uh, he's— he is Lord. He's not just a Savior, he's also Lord. That's good. Um, and so, uh, when you— when you realize that, that Jesus is Lord of every single aspect of your life, um, your whole life will change. And this is why Jesus teaches us to pray, let your kingdom come.

Yes.

And let your will be done on earth, in my family, in my marriage, with my children, whatever messed up part of my Life, um, needs, uh, redemption. That's right. That's exactly where, uh, heaven's kingdom wants to be at.

Yep, here and now. And like, let me put it this way, so many people approach life like the DMV. And, and here's what I mean is like the DMV— I don't know if you— when was the last time you were at the DMV?

Oh dude, it's been a minute. Thank God.

It's been, it's been a minute. By the way, if you're, if you're a DMV worker or listen to us, we love you. We know it's not you. It's because it's the same everywhere.

It's not you, it's me.

It's the same everywhere. But usually it's not some of those It's not a joyful experience, but it's like, all right, I go, I get my ticket, I'm waiting for the appointment. Then I just sit there and wait miserably in a room. And it's not— is it a place of joy?

Generally, no.

No. And so, so many Christians treat life basically like the DMV. It's like, man, when I get saved, I get my ticket to heaven. And then now I just got to wait miserably here on earth. And I'm like, oh, there's so much more that God wants for you. For sure, he's got an amazing future ahead of you in heaven. But man, at the end of the day, Well, we can begin experiencing that life now. And why wouldn't I want to see it now in my life and in the world around me? And to what you said earlier, that's what Into the Breach is about. It's saying, hey, what are the broken-down places that look a little bit more like hell in my life and more like hell on earth? We want to see the heaven— we want to see the life of heaven come and invade that and repair it and restore it. That's what Into the Breach is about, man.

That's right, man. That's right. Well, that's good. So, uh, so that's the first part.

That's the first part of the verse. Because we said Hey, seek first his kingdom. We've talked about his kingdom. And then it says—

wait, wait, actually, hold on. Before we— no, no, you're good. Before we, uh, before we transition to that part, yeah, uh, dude, I want to interrupt this, uh, show, this show, because, uh, we forgot to celebrate something really important.

What?

Uh, so Trinity, our Live Free producer, actually just got engaged recently.

Yes, she did.

So, uh, shout out to Trinity. Trinity, everybody's clapping. And so, man, I feel like I participated. I think I basically approved Trinity's fiancé to be hired at Lake Pointe at some point.

So really, she has you to thank.

So, I mean, I feel like kind of— I mean, I kind of did it basically, you know. So Trinity, you're welcome. And that's a joke, by the way.

I'm so glad you remembered that, dude. I would have completely forgot.

Also, it happened here in the studio.

No way.

No, that's a joke. He fooled me. Uh, oh man, we should have got Paul. But anyways, shout out. Hey, we're all celebrating here with Trinity. Come on, Trinity. Um, so I would ask her to come and say hi, but she probably would not like that.

Yeah, that's a good gift to ask you, not her.

Okay, she says she agrees.

That's good, man.

Trinity's our Gen Z representative.

That's right, man.

Anytime I have a question about Gen Z, I just ask Trinity.

Just ask her.

And one day, one day I said, my fellow Gen Z, uh, people, and she looked at me and she said, fellow? Like, excuse me? She's like, she's right.

That's exactly right. Okay. But yeah, so jumping back. So yeah, so the first part of the verse is, man, seek first the kingdom kingdom of God. We've established that. The second part is, and then all these things will be added as well. When they're like, okay, well, what are all these things? As you, I think you alluded to earlier, this verse is in the context of an extended teaching that Jesus does on wealth and on possessions. That's right. Earlier in Matthew 6, he says, hey, you cannot serve both God and money. Those are 2 competing masters. He talks about generosity. He talks about, hey, like life does not consist in the abundance of possessions. And basically it's like, hey, don't worry about what you eat or drink or what you wear. And all basically it comes in that extended teaching. And so all these things are things like what you wear. Yeah. And your money and your clothes. And so he says, hey, seek first the kingdom and all these things will be added to you as well, which this is the other part of the confusion that I think you were referring to comes, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, before we dive into that, I just want to clarify, because you explained to us what is the kingdom of God, man, heaven coming to earth, the reality of a life with God, uh, in our lives today, like in my family, the, the, the parts of my life that are broken, the presence of God comes in and brings healing and restoration and redemption. And so to seek first the kingdom is to seek a life of discipleship with Jesus. Yeah. Jesus is saying, hey, above everything else, what you gotta seek first is basically like you pursue a relationship with Jesus. You learn how to be like Jesus, how to let him invade your family and change who you are from the inside out. The whole point of the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount is that we don't just believe in behavior modification. We believe in heart transformation. That's good. And so we seek those things first as Christians. That's what we're all about. Yeah. And then the second part that you're explaining is, and all these things will be added to you. Like you said, Paul, the context of the whole chapter is about money.

Yeah. Which is interesting because, you know, we hear that verse, but we don't think like that's what Jesus is talking about. But it's money, it's possessions, it's anxiety about provision. And it's also basically what we prioritize baptized in life. So again, if you just read before that verse, it's, uh, this is what Jesus is saying. Hey, don't store up treasures on earth, store up treasures in heaven. You cannot serve both God and money.

Yep.

Do not obsess over money and material needs. Yeah. And then he says, hey, seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added. So let me, let me start by saying, maybe what does that part does not mean? So seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will Here's what it does not mean. It doesn't mean that if you seek God first, God now owes you everything you want. Hmm. You cannot say, hey, well, I'm, I'm now doing the whole church thing and I'm reading my Bible and I'm doing my part. And I still don't have the lifestyle that I always wanted or the car that I always wanted or the house. That's literally not the point of what Jesus is saying. Actually, right before Jesus says, hey, actually do not focus on stacking things on earth. That's not what we're about. So that's not what it means. Number 2, he's not talking about about all your wants. Uh, everything will be added does not mean that everything you want, uh, God will give you. Actually, Jesus is specifically referring here to your needs. So food, drink, clothing, which means God doesn't always give you what you want, but he is always faithful to give you what you need.

Yes.

Um, it doesn't mean also that if you devote yourself to God and seek him first, then you don't have to work. By the way, this is for our younger generations listening. Um, it doesn't mean that you do not have to work to go This is for Trinity's generation right here. Shout out Gen Z. That's a joke. I'm kidding. She's like, what's going on today? This, this, but, but I do, I do think there is a generational thing happening here. It doesn't mean that you don't have to work hard to go get the things that you are supposed to have for yourself and for your family. Again, it says seek first. It doesn't say seek only.

And just to connect the dots, even if, if, if you're listening to this, I'd encourage you maybe even to go back and read this whole section on your own in Matthew. is just a few verses earlier, it talks about how, man, God provides for the birds of the air. Basically, he's actually making an comparison. It's like, if he provides for the birds of the air, how much more is he going to provide for you? Because he's the birds' creator, but if you're a Christian, he's your Father. That's right. And so he's going to take care of you too. But using that analogy is interesting because it says he provides for the birds. So does that mean, Carlos, that birds just literally sit there on the branches and he just drops food down into their mouth from the sky?

And then complain that food has not been dropped yet.

That's right. No, no, they still got to do work. They still got to fly around, find the food. for them, but the way they access what he's provided is still to do work.

That's it, man. Yeah, yeah. And also, man, I think ultimately this verse, the whole point is Jesus is contrasting 2 kinds of seeking. So if the verse before, Matthew 6:32, Jesus basically says, hey, that the Gentiles, people that don't have God as a Father, they're actually seeking desperately and anxiously material necessities.

Yeah.

The following verse, Matthew 6:33, which is our verse that we're reading right now, Jesus Jesus says to his disciples, hey, that's not who you are. You need to seek first the kingdom of God and God will provide your material needs. So the question is not whether we have material needs. We do. We do. We do have needs.

Earlier in the Sermon on the Mount, he literally says part of the prayer is give us this day our daily bread.

That's right. That's right.

Yeah. Keep going.

Which is interesting because in that, in the prayer, let your kingdom come and let your will be done. The kingdom comes first.

Exactly.

And after comes and give us our daily bread.

It's an example of different priorities.

So the question is not whether you have material needs. We all do. The question is what What are you seeking first?

Yeah.

What in your heart, ultimately, what are you ultimately pursuing as a priority in your life? That's the question. That's good. And so, uh, one thing I do want to tackle, Paul, speaking of generational things, um, we have a— we have it— we live in a very interesting culture today.

Yeah.

And here's what— there seems to be a general, um, belief in our culture today that, uh, when it comes to money and, and, and basically if somebody is a good person or a bad person. So generally speaking, there is a belief today that we want to tackle that, that is, uh, against what the Bible says. And I want to make sure that it's clear. Um, people today, some people seem to believe that if you have money and wealth, you're bad. And, uh, there's this idea of like, oh man, if you're, if you're wealthy or if you're probably evil and you're greedy and, you know, all rich people are bad and billionaires shouldn't exist. Um, actually—

People who think that, by the way, do you know what they want? More money.

Yeah.

Uh, sorry, just wanted to point that out, but keep going.

I finished reading, uh, Walter Isaacson's biography of Elon Musk. And in the book, Elon, uh, basically shares how, uh, Elon's son, who was born Savior but now identifies as Vivian, uh, at some point, uh, uh, Vivian, or Elon's son, came out saying, hey, he, he believes that rich people are evil. Uh, and that's ironic. That's, that's hard because obviously Elon, uh, has a lot of money. Yeah. And so, and he has a very difficult relationship with, uh, his son. So here's the implication: if you think if having money and wealth makes you a bad person or makes you an evil person, then the implication— first of all, that's not true. Number 2, the implication would be then if you don't have a lot of money, then you're probably a good person.

Yeah.

Or you're probably a humble person or a hardworking person, and you're just an oppressed person, victim of the system. So that view right there, Paul, that's more of a reflection of what people call critical theory. And it's everywhere in our culture today. We don't do critical theory. We do Christian theory. theology. That's good. And so here's what the Bible actually says when it comes to this conversation. The Bible actually gives us 4 different categories of people when it comes to wealth and faith. So here's a graph for you because I'm trying to be more like Chad GPT. Here, here's the first part. The first category of, of, of people that the Bible talks about when it comes to wealth and faith is wealthy and godly. This is a, a person that has a lot of wealth and they're faithful to God. So contrary to popular belief, just because you're wealthy, it does not mean you're evil. No, someone can be wealthy and work really hard, and perhaps they're gifted at creating wealth, and they live in a way that is honoring to God, that is generous, joyful, faithful. We have people like that in our church.

Yeah, uh, friends, friends of us. So in the Bible, you see this as well. Abraham, Job, Joseph of Arimathea— righteous, godly men and women in the Bible, uh, that were wealthy.

Yeah, God blessed them with wealth.

Praise God. Wealthy and godly. Number 2, second category, is somebody can be wealthy and ungodly. So, um, somebody can be wealthy and at the same time also live in sin, rebelling against God. You can be greedy, selfish, living for yourself. Example, the Bible talks about the rich fool in Luke 12. Again, there were also religious rich people that were corrupt. Uh, you can be wealthy and ungodly. Number 3, someone can be poor and godly. Um, somebody— uh, let's show the next one. So somebody does not have to have lots of to live a life that is honoring to God. Dude, I'm— this is a little bit of my, um, where I come from. I was born and raised in El Salvador. Some of the godliest people I know don't have a lot of material wealth.

Yeah.

And, uh, but when I see their life, they are spiritually wealthy, uh, emotionally wealthy. They're happy. One of the happiest, some of the happiest people I know. Um, they're mighty in prayer.

Yeah.

Uh, empowered by the Holy Spirit. Spirit, but they don't have material wealth. They don't have a lot.

You know who's a great model for this? Jesus.

Yeah, that's right.

And I say this because in a minute we're going to talk about a couple of like ditches that Christians can fall into. One I'll go ahead and name is what's called prosperity theology. And it's the idea of, man, if you have faith and you're righteous, like God will give you wealth. And if you don't have wealth, that means that you are either not righteous or don't have enough faith. And the issue with that is any theology that would exclude the Son of God from being blessed is probably a theology, you know, you shouldn't believe because no one ever more righteous than Jesus. No one ever had more faith than Jesus. And yet he literally said the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

Yeah. That sounds like he does not have material wealth.

No, no. And so I just wanted to point that out for people. I just want to point that out.

So again, you can be poor when it comes to material possessions and be godly and be used by God and be faithful to God and be honoring to God and also be generous. The poor widow in Mark chapter 12, Mark 12, Jesus says, look at her. That's generosity right there. Not necessarily because she gave a lot, but because of what she had, she gave the most.

That's exactly right.

Uh, last one, last category, you can be poor and ungodly. Um, somebody, uh, you don't have to have wealth, and just because you don't have wealth doesn't mean you're holy.

Yeah.

Um, it is possible to not have a lot and still be lazy.

Yep.

Uh, it's, it's possible to be a poor steward. So some people complain, well, I, you know, it's not fair that, you have more than me, um, it is a possibility that they've been a better steward than me.

Yeah.

And this is why they have more than you.

Exactly.

Uh, you can be— you cannot have a lot of material wealth and also, uh, be— the Book of Proverbs talks about lazy people, the sluggard, never working hard. All you do is complain. Envious, they seek to destroy what other people have built out of jealousy and anger and resentment and bitterness. Again, we talked about envy at the beginning of Yeah. Again, so poor and ungodly. So those are the 4 categories of people when it comes to wealth and faith that the Bible presents.

And the point that you're making, go back to 6:33, then maybe we can, I can lay out a few, go back around those ditches that I mentioned a minute ago. It's basically, you're saying, it's like saying, hey, first seek the kingdom of God. Let that be the biggest priority in your life. Because in our society, it's very similar today where basically what Jesus is saying is, hey, like material possessions and desires should not be the organizing principle of your life. It doesn't mean you don't need to work. It doesn't mean you don't have a job. to provide for your family. It just means that the point of your life is not to go make more money to get more stuff so you can be more happy. That's the point. Instead, man is to seek first the kingdom. But your point is, is that, hey, and as you're doing that, it doesn't mean that you're automatically going to be very wealthy or very poor. That point is, man, whether you have a lot of money or a little money, you can both be a godly person or an ungodly person. That's right. The key difference between those groups is not how much money they have, but are you seeking the kingdom of God as the first priority in your life?

Is that pretty much what you're saying?

100%.

Now maybe let's dive in and really distinguish between what some would call the prosperity gospel or theology and the poverty gospel or theology.

That's right. It's connected.

Hey, and really what you've seen now is I'd say over the last 30 to 40 years, these both kind of go in vogue and out of vogue, and you kind of have 2 competing camps. I would say prosperity theology and gospel came on pretty hard in the '80s and '90s and early 2000s. And then you had a wave in the late '90s, early 2000s of kind of the opposite, which is a poverty gospel or theology. And if you're wondering—

What year did you say the poverty gospel?

I'd say, don't— I don't need— are you tempting me to start naming names right now? I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I didn't name prosperity gospel names. I'm not going to do the other. Late '90s, early— late '90s, early 2000s is when that— you kind of began to see a little bit more of a wave of that happening.

I was reading some books in college, bro, that I think— I don't think it's fair to call them poverty gospel. No, no. But it kind of—

But people, what always happens is sometimes people take an aspect of the truth, which is good, and then take it to an extreme. I think that's maybe what happened with some of the stuff there. But so basically, if I could boil it down as this, and these are 2 ditches we want to avoid as Christians. The prosperity gospel would say, God wants you to own more. And if you're faithful, and if you have enough faith, he will let you own more and he will bless you with more. So the prosperity gospel says, God wants you to own more. The poverty gospel says that God wants you to own less, that actually if you're righteous, it's not that you'll have more, it's that you should have less.

This is really helpful. Keep going.

So again, the kind of prosperity gospel, God wants you to own more. Poverty gospel, God wants you to own less. The biblical gospel and biblical theology is that God wants to own you. So it's not God wants you to own more. And it's not that he initially wants you to own less. It's that he wants to own you.

Yeah.

That actually, like scripture says, that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to purchase you. Actually, I love it because it says to redeem you from the kingdom of darkness and to bring you into the kingdom of God, into the kingdom of light, it says in Colossians. And so the idea of him owning you is not a bad thing. It's actually a good thing. He purchased you. He redeemed you. But because of that, man, he owns everything. Every part of you. So Christianity is neither a gospel of prosperity or poverty. It's not about getting rich or getting rid of everything. It's the good news that Jesus has bought every part of you, your body, your soul, your future, your property, everything. And now everything is entrusted to you, but it actually belongs to him.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

100%.

And so the key question a Christian has to ask is not how much may I possess, but who or what possesses me? Again, it's not how much I can possess, but who or what possesses me? That's the key question. And so now with that being said, I do think we need to give a few more principles around, I would call it a biblical theology of possessions and wealth. Yeah. Because just being honest with you, we're here in America, in the West, wealthiest nation in the world, wealthiest nation in history. And there's some people that would hear what I've just said, man, right on. and they would agree with me, but you wouldn't know it if you looked at their banking account. Hmm. That they were like, oh yeah, God owns me. But that yet, that hasn't yet shown up. And I say it because, man, in Matthew 6, Jesus says, not where your heart is, your treasure is. He says, where your treasure is, your heart is. So in other words, Jesus says, if I look at your bank account, I can tell where your heart is. And I will be able to tell if the kingdom of God is actually first in your heart or not.

So I do think with that thing being said about, it's not about how much you own, it's about who or what owns you. I do think we need to to give just some parameters around the possessions and kind of a biblical theology of it. I'm going to boil these down to 4 points. Number 1, everything belongs to God. Everything belongs to God. Psalm 24:1 says, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. So in other words, he says, everything on the earth is God's, including you and all that you possess. So it's not that you don't owe God some of what you have. He lets you steward some of what he has. Mm-hmm. So let me say it again. It's not that, oh, I'm a Christian. I guess I owe 10% of what I have to God. It's like, no, no, no, I gotta be good. It's already his.

Everything is his.

Everything is his. He lets you steward some of what is his on earth. So it's a huge difference. So number one, everything belongs to God. Number 2, possessions are not inherently evil. You just laid out so many people that have material possessions, but also the Bible gives us verses like 1 Timothy. It says, everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving. Deuteronomy 8:18, you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth. Ecclesiastes 5:19, everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions. Notice who gives it. God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them and to accept his lot and rejoice in his toil. This is the gift of God. So he literally says that he gives some people wealth and possessions, not just all people, everything he gives, whether you have a lot or a little, he gives it to you to enjoy. So possessions are not inherently evil. Number 2. Yeah.

Also, you know, in Luke 16, Jesus connects good stewardship of your possessions with faithfulness. Which literally it means that if God has entrusted you with something and you are not being a faithful steward with those possessions, um, you can't be a faithful follower of Jesus.

Exactly. And we're going to get to that in point number 4. No, no, you're good. That's a really big one. So number 1, everything belongs to God because that number 2 possessions then are not inherently evil, but here's a very important part, very important point. Number 3, neither are possessions entirely neutral. So they're not inherently evil, but they're also not entirely neutral because man, if you actually read Jesus's teachings, on possessions and money, like around 2/3 of them are warnings or teachings about the danger of wealth and possessions. And so, I like to think of wealth and possessions as this, is that it is a tool and it is a thing. It's not actually evil, but it's almost like there are some substances on earth that are radioactive or that are dangerous. So, if you're going to use them, you have to handle them properly and with caution.

It can be a blessing, but it also can be dangerous.

Exactly. And so, I don't want to be— but man, they're not inherently evil, but they're also not entirely neutral. There's things that we got to know that when we have to handle them cautiously, or they can lead us into a life that God doesn't want for us. Yeah.

I will say this. I mean, it is, it is true. I mean, when you read the book of, I believe that was last week in Matthew 19:23, after the rich young ruler, right after the rich young ruler leaves, Jesus explicitly says that it is harder for somebody that is wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. And that's not, you know, people think like, oh, you know, shout out to Elon Musk or Bill Gates. Bro, we are rich.

We are.

Like, compared to in history, when you compare like the way you and I and most Americans live our lifestyle on a day-to-day basis with AC and vehicles and like everything in our fridges with food inside that go bad because we had too much food. Yes. Um, we are rich. Yeah. And so Jesus is saying, when you start putting your faith in your bank account, in how much money you've made, in what you have and what you don't have, and, and it's harder for you to ultimately say, man, I just want to— I just want to follow you. And we, we become comfortable.

Yep.

Uh, Jesus is saying, hey, that's a warning.

It's a warning. And so the thing—

hold on, I got to say this, uh, because, uh, but the good news is that he says, man, what's impossible for man, it's possible to God.

That's exactly right. I was actually about to say it.

And right after, right after, uh, guess who gets saved?

Who?

Zacchaeus, who was also rich.

Who was also rich.

So anyway, so go ahead and continue.

And then after he got saved, it affected how he used his money. It's a both/and. So again, I want to be clear. It's not that they're inherently evil, but they're also not entirely neutral. You've got to be aware, to your point, that because we live in the wealthiest nation of all time, and even just beyond, even if you live in another place, definitely more wealthy than previous generations, you just got to be aware of the effect that it can have on your soul. Now, final point is then, is, hey, if it's not inherently evil, but it's also not entirely neutral, then what do we— How do we view our possessions and our wealth? They are gifts from God meant to be used for God. I'll say that again. Possessions and money are gifts from God meant to be used for God and his purposes. Luke 16:9, I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of wealth so that when it fails, they may receive you into eternal dwellings. Matthew 6:19-21, do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures I love the way Randy Alcorn puts it.

He wrote a great book, by the way, on money. I forget the name of it off the top of my head, but I read it way back in the day. He says this, God entrusts me with his money, not to build my kingdom on earth, but to build his kingdom in heaven. So money is— everything belongs to God. Possessions and wealth are not inherently evil, but they're also not entirely neutral. And because of that, the best way to use your wealth and possessions is to see that they're gifts from God meant to be used for God and his purposes.

That's great.

All right, man.

That's good, man.

So I think let's maybe transition, because man, we gave some stuff on the idea of the kingdom of God. We gave some stuff around, hey, avoid prosperity theology and poverty theology. Instead, just ask yourself this question. It's not, does God want me to own more or less? It's, does he own me? And does that reflect in the way that I actually spend my money and use my possessions? But I think it may be good to end this podcast on, and again, be back here on Wednesday for that amazing interview with Louie Giglio. About how do you, how do you do that? Because man, it sounds, it sounds so simple. Oh, seek first the kingdom of God. But then I think a lot of people are like, yeah, but like, what does that actually look like? Or even like going back to that idea of the kingdom of God and of heaven is like, man, we want to see like, like more and more, I want to live the life of heaven on earth and I want to see that happen around me. But then it's like, okay, but how do I do that? So Carlos, maybe like, let's just give some people some practical tips of how they can actually seek first the kingdom and see it come more fully in their life.

Yeah. Let me, let me give you some, uh, and we can, we can popcorn if you want. Uh, this is like the easiest one, and somebody might hear this and be like, well, that's kind of like obvious. Well, like, yeah, but are you doing it? It's like— and I, I'm saying that for myself even. Like, it sounds obvious, but like, it's just, man, uh, how do you seek him first? Uh, first thing in the morning, seek God.

That's good.

It's just as simple as that, you know? And you can say— I've had conversations where people are like, well, I'm just not a morning person. Honestly, man, like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, the Bible explicitly shows us, uh, a pattern of seeking God in the morning.

Yeah.

Uh, Mark 1:35, and rising very early in the morning while it was still dark, Jesus departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed.

Yeah.

Um, you know, let me just ask you, uh, does that look like your routine in the morning? Yeah. Um, David prayed in the morning. Psalm 143:8, let me hear in the morning of your steadfast love, for in you I trust. Make me known— make me know the way I should go, for to you I lift up my soul. Um, for me, honestly, what I have found, if I don't pray or find time to be alone with God in the morning, dude, it's like 99% harder. It's so much harder to do it later in the day. It's just so much— it's hard. Maybe some people can pull it off and great. Yeah. It's just so much harder for me to do it. So one easy way, man, I just want the first thing in my mind, the before my screens, I want to go to scripture. The first thing I do, I want to spend time with God. Uh, whatever that time looks like for you this season. Um, and, and it's my, it's my, uh, intention to put him first in my time and in my schedule every single day by the grace of God.

That's good. Uh, keep going. Let me, let me think. I wasn't planning on this, but as you're talking, it just gave me this idea. It's like, Carlos and I, I'll have to explain it for people that are just listening to this. If I throw the book this way, and if my hand is pointed this way to my left, to your right, where's this book going?

To your left.

When it starts to come out of my hand, it's going to go this way because it's pointed this way. And so when it starts to come out, wherever my hand is pointed, it's going to go left. If I point it this way to my right, Where's it going?

You're right.

It's going to go— the point of that is that, man, how you start your day is the trajectory and the aim of that day. There you go. And so however you start is usually where, and where it's pointed is where it's going to go. It's not that you can't change course in the middle of the day, by the way, but it is just to say the best way to start your day in terms of prioritizing and putting God first is to actually put him first and prioritize him at the beginning of the day. That will set the trajectory and the aim for your day. With that, I'll even give you a little tip that I occasionally do with my kids. kids is just, man, a simple prayer. It's just basically like a lot of part of what you're talking about is a quiet time and Bible study and intense prayer, which by the way is awesome. We've done episodes on that. But a good—

Hey, Brad, why are you hating on my prayer time? I'm not.

I'm not. I'm saying I just want to give people in addition to that, a thing that sometimes I'll pray in the car at the beginning of the day for my kids and for myself is I'll say, God, we've got a lot of things to do today. Because I don't go into the day as a blank slate of, okay, God, what do you want me to do at 9 o'clock? And like, man, part of being a good steward of the time he gives you is managing it well. I've got meetings and I've got things on the calendar, yada, yada. My kids go to school, it's part of what they do every day. But one of the things that I like to do is to say, hey God, I've got a lot of things to do today, but what do you want me to do today? Now it could be something different than what's on my calendar, but it's also a knowledge that, hey, when I'm in that meeting, what do you want my posture to be?

Yeah.

And even sometimes in addition to praying that in the morning, I'll look at my calendar before I go into a meeting or before I go into something, before I go into this podcast, my God, I've got a thought of how I want to contribute to this or what I'm going to do here, but what do you want me to do? And what I'm doing in that moment is I'm realizing that, hey, I'm committing this I'm giving this time to God and I'm saying, God, this is in your hands. It's not about me and my will. It's about you and your will. I want your kingdom to come on earth. Whatever it is I'm doing, would you let me know how I can best be a part of that? It's a way of orienting my day and putting it in his hands and taking it out of my hands. That's great. Um, what else you got? I've got, I've got really just one big thing I was gonna hit. What else you got?

Uh, I mean, I, I'd say the rhythms in your life that are part of your spiritual disciplines, man, you put them first, right? Like, this would be probably one that's a little a little harder perhaps for people with kids and in the season of life, uh, when, you know, everybody's busy with everything. Um, for example, your community, your life group.

Yeah.

Uh, you could say, man, I would love to be a part of a life group. I'd love to do Rooted, but I'm just a little too busy with my season or whatever. Um, there's never going to be a perfect time.

Yeah.

Uh, where you have every— all day, have nothing to do. And so you eventually, you make room for the things that are most important in your life. Yeah. Um, that's how you seek the kingdom first, which means that there's going to be some things that you're going to have to shove down second, third, and fourth because you're trying to prioritize the most important things. Um, again, the, the— this is something that you'll hear Pastor Josh say often— the mark of a Spirit-filled Christian is not emotion, it's rearranged priorities. And so at some point— and I've done this too, Paul— where, you know, uh, ministry can be busy, and if you're in ministry, it's not easy to, to be a part of a group and, and, and go through the, the, the rhythms yourself. Uh, and I've gotten convicted many seasons where I'm just kind of falling, I'm, I'm too quote unquote busy. And it's like, hey, uh, it's as if God says, uh, Carlos, um, thank you for doing ministry for me. I really appreciate it. Uh, I love your heart. Um, but like, I'm above ministry. Yeah. I'm above your work. And so, and so the question is, um, does Does your schedule, does your agenda, do the activities in this season reflect the priorities of your heart?

And if so, man, you gotta prioritize church, spiritual disciplines, prayer, worship together, life group, community, amongst other things.

It's good, man. Yeah. I'm gonna give one. It's gonna seem counterintuitive and you may even call me a heretic. So just— Maybe. Just kidding. Just go with me for a second.

We'll find out.

If it wasn't for our discussion on Harry Potter, you're gonna have the ammo now. But when I talk to people about, man, how do you seek the kingdom first? And really a different way of putting it is like, how do you put God first? And I actually tell people, it's like, the way you put God first is you stop trying to put God first. It sounds really weird, but just follow me for a second.

I'm going to give you 60 seconds before I call your hair crazy.

Because I had this thing when I was in high school, went to a Christian high school, and our coaches would do this and other people would do this thing. They'd say, guys, you got to have your priorities in order. God first, family second, school third, yada, yada, yada. Football would then be fourth before friends and so on and so forth. And by the way, that sounds amazing. In a sense, it is true because it just said seek first. The idea of God should be number one, but then the older I got, I began to think, okay, that sounds great, but what does that even practically look like? So does that mean, Carlos, if our listeners don't do that quiet time in the morning, are they cool just to call in sick and be like, hey boss, didn't have much time to read the word and get into prayer. I'm going to take off this morning and do that. Probably not a good thing for them to do. And not a practical thing for them to do. Does that mean that if my relationship with God is struggling, I'm cool to go and tell my family, hey guys, I really just got to have a week to myself.

And hey wife, you just take care of everything while I'm gone. Now occasionally you may need to have that, but in general, no. I just find it sounds great, but how do you actually do that? And so there was this idea that I heard a while back and it really revolutionized the way I came at this, which was, man, the way to actually put God first in your life is to make him the center of every piece of your life. Yeah. So it's not how do I make God God first before my marriage, it's how do I put Jesus in the center of my marriage? It's not how do I put God before my kids? It's actually how do I actually make him the center of how I raise my kids? It's not how do I put God before my job or before my possessions? It's actually how do I make him the center of my job and the center of my possessions? Yeah. So instead of it trying to put him first above those things, it's actually saying, hey man, with my possessions, with my family, with my marriage, God, how would you have me manage these things that you've entrusted to me.

It's like, hey, you've called me to be a husband. You've called me to be a father. You've called me to be an employee. How would you have me do that? Going back to our conversation on the kingdom of heaven. Hey God, if I were living the heaven kind of life now, when it came to my marriage, what would that look like for me as a husband?

Great question.

And then go do that.

And you should be asking that.

And you should be asking that. So like, if I were just to give a practical thing is for sure. And again, the point of this, just to make sure and give clarity, I want people to put God first and I want them to seek the kingdom of God first. But I think the practical way to do that Yeah. Is actually think through the different big elements of your life. And just, I would honestly ask people, like, man, maybe take an hour of the next week, look at the different big elements of your life and simply ask this question for each of them. Like, what would it look like if I increasingly made Jesus the center of that? What would that practically look like? Maybe identify one practical thing for each of those and then take a step. Don't list 20 things for each of them and think you can do all 20 of all of them. Just write a few of them for each and then just take a step. step in each. And I believe that the more you make him the center of every part of your life, he will be first in your life.

Yeah. In your marriage, relationship with your kids, community, finances, work, private and public life.

All those things. Yeah. Think of all the big areas and just ask, man, what would it look like for me to live life as if Jesus was the center of that part of my life? Take a step in each and then you'll begin to see some progress, man.

Well, let me, uh, let me wrap with that. You got anything else before we land the plane?

Great stuff, man.

Dude, I love what you said about, you know, when we talk about the kingdom of God, man, here's what you need to keep in mind. We have a king and his name is Jesus.

Yeah.

He is not just a teacher. He is a king. And so now again, you got to consider this. Jesus is not just a good teacher or a good example or a good man. Jesus is king. Jesus had no servants, yet they called him master. He had no university degree, yet they called him teacher. He had no medicine, yet they called him healer. Uh, the king that you and I have, Paul, uh, he commanded no earthly army, yet legions of angels were at his disposal. He wrote no books, yet more books have been written about him than anybody else in history. He had no political office, yet he holds all authority in heaven and on earth. If you think about it, earthly kings are born in palaces. Jesus was born in a manger. Earthly kings wear crowns of gold. He wore an, uh, he wore a crown of thorns, and yet he is crowned with glory, the Bible says. Earthly kings send others to die for them. This King came to die for us. Um, the author of life— this is crazy— the author of life was willing to taste death. And so our King, the King we serve, the King who is Lord of our lives, he was rejected by his own people, and yet One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess from every tribe, tongue, and nation that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That's what the Bible says. And so, um, we serve a unique King and he is good and we can trust him and he is worthy of all, not just part of your life, but of all. And so this is why, by the grace of God, we seek his kingdom first.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Would you pray for us? I

would love to. We just want to stop right now, Jesus, and say you are the King of the universe, that every square inch of it belongs to you. And God, even as Carlos was speaking, I just felt convicted about a thought I've had before, that everything in the physical universe does exactly what you want it to. That in the Old Testament, when, when you wanted the Red That's right. That in the New Testament, when you walked on the water, you walked on it and it stood firm beneath you because it did what you wanted it to do. That the Old Testament says that the wind blows where you want it to, that the grass grows because you want it to, that the mountains raise up to the exact height because you wanted them to. Everything in the physical universe does exactly what you want it to do, except for one thing, us. Yes. And it just blows me away that we are also the one thing in the universe, in the physical universe, that you had the audacity as the King to come down and die for. And we just want to thank you. I just want to thank you that you are that kind of King.

And God, I pray now, though, that in light of that, and because of what you have done for us, Lord, that we would now not just sit around and wait to get to heaven when we die, but we would long to see it come more and more on earth while we live in every part of our lives, God. So may that be true in the way we handle our possessions and money. Would you help us to see our possessions the way you see them and the way they are and help us to steward them as gifts from you to be used for you? And God, I pray that in every part of our lives, you would be the center and that you would be first so that we would get to experience heaven now and that we would get to see more and more breaches filled in our world to experience it as well. In your name we pray. Amen. Amen.

Amen. Live free, brother.

Live free.