Transcript of Devil Wears MAGA

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Ready? One, two, three.

Patriots, gay triets, they triets, black triets, brown triets, and the people who don't support them can fuck off. Fuck off. That's right. You guys, it is a big time in the big city. We have a big time guest, Jen Saki with MSNBC, but I think it's going to be MS Now. It is.

I think you should do jazz hands.

Jazz Hands. Jazz Hands. I think Rachael Madau should go, Welcome to MS Now. Yes.

And anyone who doesn't like it can fuck off. Should we start there?

That's exactly.

We welcome you. Even If you don't like it yet, please come like it. I know.

I'm excited about it, though.

I am, too. The rebrand. I'm very excited.

I think it's an opportunity for a feeling of at least getting away from all the capitulators.

It's funny you say that. I've been thinking about how it feels like a healthy divorce. When you look at the other side and you're like, I'm ready to move out now, and I'm ready to move into our space. And I'm really excited about the reporters who are coming to MS now, who are already with us. People who have... Carol and Ken have broken, I don't know, it feels like a story every day, and they're part of what we're going to be doing. And a lot of what we do is storytell and not bullshit, and just tell people what's happening. And that's exciting to be a part of and to be our own world of it.

I've been on CNN, and then I was on the MSNBC Weekend, and people ask me what the difference is. And the difference is this. When you're on CNN, you have to walk in and have regressive conversations. You have to argue about decided facts and people saying that, No, that isn't a fact. This is the truth. And when I was on MSNBC, I was on, by the way, is so attractive in person, Amen. Oh, holding? Yeah. Yeah.

You know his wife is like a model? But yes, he's very interesting.

Yeah, I follow him on Instagram. They are gorgeous.

And he's so nice. It's just so nice.

Yeah, he's fantastic. And smart, all the things. But I was on his show, and it was just so refreshing because the facts are just assumed, and then you can get into the nuance of conversation, policy, grievances, whatever. But on other networks, it's like this is so regressive that we're debating a fact.

Let's not debate the sky's blue. The sky's blue, right? I don't think we have to have another side of, was it the pros and cons of LaTisha James being indicted? There are no pros. There are no pros. There are many cons. Here are all the things with it. That is one of the things I so appreciate. I remember when I started, I can't remember. It may have been Ari Melber, actually, who has done a lot of interesting reporting on criminal justice reform and things. And he said to me, One of the things that's really exciting is that you can decide to do an eight-minute package on criminal justice reform and talk to people who are experts. And you don't have to feel like you have to present a hundred sides of the issue. You're trying to inform the audience with information and nuance and a depth of details that you don't have the luxury of doing even on a range of networks and a range of mediums right now.

Well, what have you had it with? That's the number one thing we got to talk about.

I love this. I've had it with so many things right now. First of all, I'm just going to start with the political one because here we are. I have had it with Little Mike Johnson. Oh, cannot stand him. And taller John Thune, don't forget to have had it with him, who pretend like they are powerless observers of the shutdown of anything you can do in Washington. Little Mike Johnson is second in line to the presidency. He's the most powerful person in Congress. There are many things you can do to end the shutdown, to pay military troops, to make sure people have health care subsidies. And John Thune is walking around. He he's a new addition to my Have Had It group, is walking around like, I don't know.

We've neglected him. We have neglected him. I have totally neglected him because his silence is really causing a lot of problems.

Yeah, Yeah, and he behaves as if, I guess we'll see what happens. You're the leader of the Senate.

Have you ever seen this many emasculated men that are so terrified of so many things in your life? Can you imagine being a conservative and navigating a remote control? Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, Bad Bunny. A Cracker Barrel commercial, a Drag Queen, a gay person, a Black person, a Spanish-speaking person. I mean, these people are so terrified all the time, yet they want to talk about how masculine they are.

And it's like, Bitch, please. Bitch, please. That's the tell, isn't it?

Little dick energy on steroids.

It's really... That is such a... Because I feel like Donald Trump himself, just to go back to that guy, has Remember that game, Battleship? We used to play that. Yes, I loved it. He's got a game of Battleship and little military figures that he's moving around. And it would be funny, except it's not funny because it's a horror show. But that is what this is about. This is like, I am weak and small, so I'm going to play battleship over here, and I'm going to tell the military what they're going to do, and I'm going to send them into cities because I need to feel bigger.

Right. Well, and I get Pete Hegset, who's a complete fucking moron, completely not qualified to do what he's doing, and he's running the battleship. And that scares me. For national security, everything else, I feel like our enemies are looking saying, These bozos couldn't stop a clock.

Our enemies are taking the dub. It's fantastic for them. This is a W for all. They don't have to do anything. China, Russia, they can just sit back and go, Have at it.

This is such a good point. I spent a couple of years at the State Department, and when you have foreign leaders come visit, and they do this in other capitals too, you get all this briefing materials of what is the coverage of them in their countries? What are their strengths? What are their weaknesses? What are their vulnerabilities? Imagine what that packet of information it looks like for a briefing when somebody's going to meet with Trump. It's like, flatter him.

Flatter him. Tell me he has big hands.

Say he's physically looking good and his hands are big. A golfer. Yeah, he's a great golfer. And what else do you say about him? And then maybe you'll get what you want from him. I mean, that's the briefing they're getting. Jay Johnson, who's the former Secretary of Homeland Security, made this point on my show last night, which is it's like the United States, usually when you're traveling with Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense or the President. We're imperfect. We have a long history of being imperfect. But usually go to other countries and you say, If you don't improve your human rights, if you don't treat the media with respect, if you don't treat freedom of speech and express them with respect, we're going to have to have a conversation about the money we provide to you. You have these conversations. Now, how do we go into other countries and have conversations about how they treat the media, how they treat freedom of expression, how they treat the right to gather, all of these issues that we are now grappling with in our own country.

What about the inverse of that? We talk a lot about corporate capitulation, university capitulation, all of the Republican Congress, the national security guys. But what about our allies? Are they capitulating, in a sense, by going along when they meet with the United States of America, like Jay Carnie was in the oval? And while they are piling on a fuse of praise to this malignant, narcissist dictator, We're not on the verge of an authoritarian takeover. We're right in the middle of it. Are our allies capitulating by kissing his ass and not saying, We're not going to do deals with you if you are denying people due process. You are on human rights watchlist. Our relationship is different. What do you think, having been at the State Department, about that look at it? It's very Neville Chamberlain-esque, in my opinion, of our allies to go along with Yes.

Yeah. And you want that Hugh Grant moment. Remember that Hugh Grant moment where he says, We are not a small country. We are whatever he says? I think, I don't know yet. And I think they're making this calculation clearly in their own strategy meeting. Some of them, Just go flatter him, and it will help us get what we want, right? Maybe we can get him back on board with being on the right side of the war in Ukraine, which is a crazy thing, but that's where we are. Maybe it will help him. It will help him push push him back from pushing all these tariffs. That hasn't worked yet in most regards, but I think they're calculating. If we can just flatter him a little bit, we'll treat him like they treat him like a child a bit, right? Does that work? I don't think we know yet, but that seems to be the calculation.

Well, and people in his administration have really... Like JD Vans, who we refer to as Lil Smoky, short for smoky-eye sociopath. So Lil Smoky has said- It is a very smoky-eye. It is not going to lie. He said some very disparaging things about Europe. And of course, Elon Musk is with that far-right German Party, and then he's meddling in UK politics. And it feels like there is this desire from dark forces. This is my theory, and you can tell me what you think about it. Trump has the cult. He keeps it together. Our allies and adversaries know how to flatter him, but also the people within the White House know how to flatter him. What are his number one things? Are his Decorating and Arts and Crafts projects? He's building an arch. We've seen the oval office. He's got his ball room. He's selling watches. He has his online thrift shop. The watches. The watches. And all of the people that work for him, particularly when you get to Steven Miller and then JD Vance, and then you just peel back who they're associated with. People that would never get into politics, that think they're better than that, like I'm talking Peter Thiel and other oligarchs.

And I feel like they are really trying to concentrate the power in the executive, because biology is going to catch up with Trump. None of these guys can win a general election. The cult will completely fall apart. So they have to consolidate in the executive, go full tilt, authoritarian, so that Little Smoky can come in and execute this crazy plan that these weirdos, Peter Thiel and this guy named Curtis Yarvin, have that they have decided we no longer should have a democracy.

I think the little Manchurian candidate, JD Vance, Wants to be President more than anything else. I always wonder what's going on in the mind of his wife. Are you okay? Please blink four times. We'll come over here. We'll save you. And that he's willing to do anything to get there. And your whole iteration you just outlined, he's scarier in certain ways. He's smarter. In some ways. And he's young. And ambitious. And ambitious. And agile in the sense that he is a chameleon who makes He gets himself into whatever he thinks the audience wants to hear from him. Now, what's also true, though, is JD Vance is not... He's in some ways good-ish on paper, if you like what he believes in, I don't know. But I don't know that he can take the whole movement with him.

No way.

I don't think so either.

He's no-ris.

He's got no-ris, right? He just is a little odd. Totally. Trump's odd in a different way. I'm skeptical of that. So, yeah, Everything going on right now, and I think we have to be very clear-eyed about this, is about trying to manipulate the public around elections. So even pre-JD Vance ascension or attempt for JD Vance to ascend, We're looking at the midterm elections next year. J. B. Pritzler has called this out. Gavin Newsom has called this out. These troops in the streets, these attempts to manipulate the elections by doing these mid middle of the process, redistricting. This is all about making it harder to participate in the process, making it harder for Democrats and for people who want to support these candidates, and even just people who want to check on the power of Trump to participate. That's what this is all about. So that's just the lead up to taking greater and greater and greater control. And even taking the military underneath his wing, taking the press, which they're completely reshaping the whole press room and who covers the President. All of this is consolidation of power and consolidation of information to the public.

And that's what it's about, is maintaining power.

And then you have Fox News that's got all the boomers that don't get on social media. Okay, so here's my We've been talking about this, the press corps that goes to those ridiculous propagandists press secretary, which I want to get to, but this is on this point. Is there going to be a time that the press says, We're not doing this. We are not covering this President or this press secretary because all they do is lie. And so you can have Peter Ducey, you can have whoever the podcaster of the day is, Benny Johnson can get in there and just go for it. Is that something we can see? Because I don't see another avenue to getting the truth out unless there's some type of pushback from the press, which we're seeing the Pentagon press do more than I've seen the White House press do.

It's a very good question. Here's the challenge of that. I would say Peter Ducey, bless his heart, is not as bad as Benny Johnson. This is the work we're living in. It's like the rank order of options. Is that if the Associated Press and the Washington Post, and the New York Times and the New York Times and ABC News say, You know what? We're walking out of this White House briefing room. That's the best thing that could ever happen to Donald Trump and Caroline Levet, because that's what they're trying to reshape without saying they're doing it. And And in that room, and this is what I find to be so challenging, is the things that are happening behind the scenes that you can't always see or know unless you've lived it. And I think this is true in law firms, in the Department of Justice and places, too, is that in that briefing room, the Benny Johnsons of the world are slowly but surely taking over more and more of the questions in the briefing, right? And having a greater and greater presence in these press pools where you have a smaller group of reporters in the oval office.

And sometimes, Trump and a foreign leader will take 45 minutes of questions. And it's Benny Johnson and Little Benny Johnson, whoever that may be. And yes, maybe there's one or two other real reporters. But the problem is they're taking up so much real estate. So if all these other reporters leave, that's all the real estate. And then you know what we have, we have what the Kremlin press corps is. And that's the challenge. So if you're these reporters, I don't know what the answer is and what you do. There's still very smart people in there. They're just getting overtaken in terms of space and real estate by people the White House select. Text to say things like, Donald Trump looks so good in his workout. What is his workout? That was literally a question one day. It's crazy. Yeah.

Okay. So I'm going to tell you what a big nerd I am.

We're all nerds. It's a safe place.

So I get on social media And then when I would get home after work, I would watch your press conferences when you work for Biden. Oh my God.

God bless you. Thank you.

Just to see, okay, what's the real story before I got into the meat of it? Because I was like, okay, what's the White House saying? Because I'm getting all this disruption. And I think that it's precious for the United States to have a representative of the President to come out and talk about policy. You had a stack of books this tall. I couldn't even believe all the crap you went through. Now, I am enraged every time I see Caroline Levent, who prays before she goes out there and lies her fat ass off. So she goes out there and lies, and it's propaganda after propaganda. Is there no check on that? I guess there's no law that the press secretary has to be honest. But when she acts like, I can't even believe you would insinuate Donald Trump would make money off of the presidency as the Trump watches are going. So is there no rules or anything? I guess they don't care about rules. But does that break your heart to see what it's been turned into?

It does. And I say this as, obviously, I work in Democratic politics for 20 something years. I'm not shy about my views. But even for people who, like Dana Dina Perino, or dare I say even Sean Spicer, I don't know if I should use them as an example. It's a very different briefing room now than it was then. Dina Perino is probably a better example of this, right? I disagree with Bush on a bazillion things, right? But You had to go in there and answer questions from the same type of reporters, often the same reporters I had to answer questions from. And this is a part of how the United States is unique as a democracy, is that you do have a person who goes out there at the White House and answers questions, even on days. And believe me, there are some days before you walk out into that room, you're like, Oh, shit. There's no information. That's not the reporter's fault. It's like, There's nothing I can offer, and they're going to just yell at me for 45 minutes. It's sad because there aren't so many people who have ever done that job.

And what it feels like it is diminishing the job. It is diminishing the role of the press secretary, the honor of being in that job, which is speaking on behalf of the United States of America, which sometimes it's edgy, a lot of times it's not. Sometimes Sometimes people think it's boring, but it's important. And this is really changing what it is and what the expectations are around it. And that is sad for the White House. It's sad for the institution. It's sad for anyone who's had that job. And it really takes it away as something that the American people can rely on as at least a source of information.

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One thing that I think he's really good at, Trump, and Republicans in general, is they are- Is he?

I don't know.

I'm not sure. They are constantly promoting what they're doing. And Biden, in my opinion, he knew how to govern, loads of experience, knew how to reach across the aisle, knew how to get shit done. But there wasn't a lot of marketing that accompanied the successes that he had. And because everything has changed, and it's the really weird thing being a Democrat, because when Obama was in office, we had all the young techy people and controlled social media. Well, that narrative has really switched. And now I feel like we're the conservative party, not in the sense of our values, but in the sense that people are not progressing forward within the Democratic Party. They are sticking to the status quo like I've never seen the party do. In that regard, if we get to midterms and if we ever get a Democratic President, having been the press secretary, what do you think, and now what the American public is used to, obviously, honesty is first, but don't you think the Dems need to razzle, dazzle and permacampaign their presidency? Because now the public is primed for that. We can't just go back to Well, today the President did.

I'm not saying you did that, but it's going to have to be more entertaining. Would you not agree?

Totally. I mean, Democrats, God bless their hearts, some are better than others are holding on to, remember the running CD Discman? Yes. Yes. But not in In a cool, vintage, ironic way. It's interesting. When I started my job as the press secretary, well, I'll go back a little before that. When Donald Trump won the first time, and we all thought Hillary Clinton was going to win, and we had binders ready for the people we knew who were working for Hillary Clinton because I was Obama's communications director, and I was there at the time, we would have suggested them, the good gentlemen, what they wanted to change all sorts of things about the briefing room, the way engagement with the press works, because It's been archaic for a very long time. And there's not enough thought put into what the thought should really be about is how do you reach the broad public out there that doesn't press refresh on whitehouse. Gov. And that's key. That should be the guide because the American public is your constituency. And the briefing room is only a part of it, of course. I know you're not just asking about that, but I think it's about rethinking the modes of communication, how you use your own platforms.

I I love Joe Biden extremely deeply, which I know I don't have to say to both of you. He was never going to be a natural TikTok person. There were reasons we didn't have TikTok because of national security concerns. Frankly, I think everybody running for president and who want to be leaders should have TikTok or whatever the new iteration of it is. It's always evolving and should really think about not, do I feel good? Because my written piece was in the Washington Post, which, by the way, nobody reads.

I also I don't think that all departments of government should have social media. A hundred %. I think that in order to... I think you've got to govern smart, govern honestly, and govern with style, and govern with an entertainment lens as well, because that is what our culture has become. Good, bad, or indifferent, you have to evolve to it. The problem with Democrats, and the reason why I keep saying the word conservative, and I think I want to say more preservative, they want to preserve these systems, is that shockingly, the Conservatives that I thought were just crusty old white people have morphed into this young group of misogynists that really know how to navigate social media and the media landscape. Then We have the Democrats who are preserving. The biggest problem for Democrats for me right now and in the past is we operate under what I call assumption politics. We assume everybody's going to do the right thing. That's a good way of describing it. We assume nobody's going to vote for Trump. We're so We assume that people know that Caroline Levet is lying. We assume that everybody knows that Antifa is not real.

It is an idea. We assume these things. And in that assumption comes hubris to where then you cannot plainly speak to constituents. And this is the problem. When Democrats don't do this, really bad actors fill the void. Right now, Marjorie Taylor-Green is filling that void. She is seeing Seeing the curtains on kanks. That's what we call Trump, short for kankles.

I'm tracking.

I'm a listener. She sees the curtains on kinks, and she is teeing up, and now she's talking about health care. She's talking about America seems to have Israel first policies. Why do they have health care? Why do they have higher education? And we don't. Well, we live in Oklahoma. And so that shit, that is going to hit hard. And then Democrats are explaining more nuances about those issues. And Marjorie Taylor Green is, as she does all of this, she was on CNN last night. Spitting facts sounds like a normal fucking person. And then I went to her Twitter. And last night, just because she has to pacify the crazies, she's like, by the way, Antifa was at January sixth. I mean, within a two-hour span.

It's like a different universe.

But the point is, those vacuums get filled by these very crafty manipulative grifters on the right, Benny Johnson, Marjorie Taylor-Green, JD Vance, Lil Smoky. I mean, They fill these vacuums that Democrats don't fill.

I a thousand % agree. And I think part of it, this is just a small part of it, but the preservation is such a good way of describing it. There's still this, what is presidential? What is governmental? What does a senator do? Get the fuck out of here. Who cares? It doesn't matter. You're trying to reach people. And guess what? Most people are not sitting on their couch wearing a suit watching you. So it's like people just have to become a little bit more relaxed, let go of the talking points, which it's funny because in part of my transition from being a communications ex-person to being on television is we would have officials on, and I would finish an interview and I'd say, We can't have that person on again. They literally read a list of talking points, right? And there is a letting go and a being a little freer and not being so preservationist with how you talk about things, the words you use to talk about things. Just talk like a human being with a heart. That's it. That's what Democrats care about. Right now, the government shutdown, they want to protect health care.

That's it. They want to make sure you're not paying more for health care. That's the whole thing. So just talk about it like a human being Stop being so overly formalized and strict with yourself about it.

It's a really good example. We recently had Cory Booker on, and I asked him, Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal? And he wouldn't answer it. And he filibustered after every answer. And after the interview, I thought- The ICC thinks he is.

You could just say that.

I said that. We did. But I thought, would Donald Trump ever fucking blink about just saying it? No. He would never fucking blink. And we're playing two different games here. We have these preservationist Democrats that are preserving the status quo, which left us to this moment. And let me just say, I like Cory Booker. His heart's in the right place. He's a fabulous senator. He's a good voice for the Democratic Party. But we're at the stage in this authoritarian takeover, where it's like, Stop with the status quo. Stop with your donors. It has left all of us vulnerable. Everybody's hurting. The first Democrat that steps up, whether it's Hakeim Booker and says, I'm not taking APAC anymore. I'm rolling up my sleeves. I'm going to fight for this country. Everybody would embrace and love that person immediately. You see it with the grand platinum that's running. You see it with Zora and Mom Donnie here. People That's what they liked about Trump. They thought, mistakingly, Well, he's a billionaire. He can't get bought. Nobody can own him. But that's what he projected. And so I just am really worried about a lot of the Democrats still playing It feels like conservative politics now.

The Democratic Party, the establishment, feels conservative to me. And so now I'm like more... I find myself going more left, more leftist, because the Democratic Party, they I just want to preserve all of the assumption politics and the bullshit answers. Of course, Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal. Fucking say it, for God's sake, Cory. It just drove me crazy.

It's not hard. Yeah. It's interesting. I think some of it is just a people in comfort in their own skin. I think Cory Booker is very comfortable in his own skin. Totally. He's super likable. He's super likable.

And I think he's a good senator. I do.

Very much. But sometimes I think it's a thinking too much about what you think. I agree. Barack Obama, I worked for him for 10 years. He used to say, not perfect, okay, but he was a pretty good President. That really good.

He was good.

He used to say, and he would say, give this advice now, I think, to people running for office. Start with what you think. Don't start with what the polling says. Don't start with what the talking points say that are given to you by the DNC or wherever it is. First of all, no offense to the DNC, burn the talking points in the ground. Start with what What is your view? Personally, you're a leader, you're educated, you're informed, and just say that. It sounds simple, but a lot of people don't do that. Graham Platner is very interesting because I think he just says what he thinks, and people can't figure out him Because they're like, How can he be somebody who says he can speak to Trump voters, but he also has these views? And I'm like, He just says what he thinks. Most people are not checking boxes on one particular line of views. Nobody you talk to at the bus stop or the hardware store is like, Oh, yeah, I meet all of those requirements. They might have views that are slightly contradictory because that's human beings. It's like simple advice, but to anyone who may run for president, all 147 of you, I hope you just start.

Now is the time to sit in a room with people you trust and say, What do you think about this? What do you think about Israel? What do you think about Ukraine? What do you think about any range of issues? Trans rights, all these things you're going to be asked about. What do you think? Then figure out how to talk about it.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that the The reason that people like Trump is because he comes across as this plain-spoken person. And then I think people in America worship capitalism and worship wealth. But when you get to the grand platiners, and even AOC has had triple Trumpers that also voted for her. Zora is getting triple Trumpers that are also voting for him. I guarantee you Platner will. I think what all of that is, is a pushback on corporate politicians. And when you get to Republicans and a lot of the Democrats that take a lot of corporate donations for the person that gets up, goes and works, suffers to pay their health insurance, watch his will of fortune, maybe hits Jesse Waters, maybe watches some porn, goes to sleep, rinse, repeat every day. They're looking for somebody who isn't beholden. I don't know that they particularly know how to articulate exactly what that is, but you can feel and see authenticity, and you know it. And so when a politician cannot answer a yes or no question, like do you think Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal? When he can't answer it, then you know he definitely thinks he's a war criminal.

But he's caught up somewhere and compromised somewhere that he can't say it. And then you sniff that out. And then the stereotype, all politicians are the same, whether they're MAGA or liberal, then they all get chunked into that. And I think people on the Coast, and I think people in the Democratic Party always like, Well, the polling shows this, and then the polling shows that. That's what they don't get. They don't know how to just speak to people. It's too controlled. The talking points are so controlled, and people sniff it out.

I know you didn't ask me for another I've had it, but I'm just going to offer another I've had it.

No, we need more.

Well, no, no. I mean, I've had it with the phrase kitchen table issues. First of all, who says that? No one.

Ram Emmanuel is the only person I know that consistently says it. And I got in a huge fight with him.

Well, I mean, there are more than just Ram Emmanuel who says that, but it sounds like it was a phrase created in a lab. I'm sure I've slipped into that word, phrasing, because it's everywhere. But nobody in any community in the country sits around and says, I wish my person in for office would talk about kitchen table issues. Issues we speak about at the kitchen table. It's like, what is that? I agree with you. That's such a good hat. That is in every set of talking points that's anywhere. It's like, what is the kitchen table issue? Or it's like there's lots of different iterations of economic populism. It's like nobody is sitting anywhere saying, I wish somebody running would be like, I'm more an economic populace.

Here's the kitchen table issues. God, that senator is so full of shit. I wish they would just speak the truth. God, did they not get it? Of course they don't get it. That's more the kitchen table issues. It's not like people are sitting around the kitchen table and talking about, Here's our punch list. The grievances that Americans have, it is all linked to the affordability crisis and the fact that wages have gone up so high for one %, two percenters, and have stagnated. I mean, it's basically everything that fucking Bernie said, back when he ran against Hillary, and I voted for Hillary. But as a person that's watched this idiot, fucking moron win twice, I go back to Bernie's message, and he was spot on. That was something that was really penetrating to all parts of people affordability. And the way that we do capitalism in this country is simply not sustainable. It needs to be regulated. Wages need to go up. A more FDR-style way to preserve capitalism with a much larger social safety net. And I just think the kitchen table issues right now are people are sniffing out bullshit, and they're sick of scripted politicians.

Totally. I mean, yeah, the Bernie message, and this is, I think, one of my epiphany is post-election when I was going through my own therapy session as we all were. Why I did even a podcast myself was like, I don't know what the hell just happened. But is that the Democratic Party was not talking to a huge swath of the public that didn't feel heard about their struggles with affordability, with the cost of everything. And it's the cost of living, it's the cost of housing, it's the cost of health care, it's the cost of everything. Nate Cohn, sorry, I'm going to pick on him for a second. I'm not going to apologize. I don't care. Wrote this piece the other day about how Democrats are fighting an old battle about health care. I'm like, I'm sorry. Is the health care system perfect and it's affordable for everybody? Because it's That's what we're talking about. We're talking about the hot book of this is just it's a little bit discussions in a lab that are not about real discussions people are having. And some of the terminology used falls into that category, too.

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Yes.

Oh, my God. Welcome to Had It or Hit It. I would hit it. Had It. Had It. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. Jen Saki. Had It or Hit It, Generational Warfare. Meaning like Gen Z versus millennials.

Had It.

I had it, too. Are you millennial Gen X? I'm Gen X. Okay, we're Gen X, too.

Are you're Gen X?

First of all, I'm the same age as Brenda car, and I want everybody watching me now. Oh, my gosh.

I saw that the other day.

To look up Brenda Carr. He looks so old. And I really had a moment of feeling good about myself. I'm also older than Emile Bovey, who darkness does not age you well, is my theory there. And Steven Miller, also him. So my young friends, all of them.

What do you think is going on with Jesse Waters? I don't know if you're on TV, so you don't need to see it.

I think he's gay.

Well, obviously.

But- His hair? I love to. His hair is good.

He has good hair. He does have good hair. In person, it's He's died in person. It's two died. But he is constantly talking about Steven Miller's sexual crouise.

Oh, wait.

Is he the one who did the thing about him being a matador?

Matador. He's a sexual matador.

This week alone, he's like- He said that AOC is dying to have sex with him, that he is a man's man. It's the gayest- It's so gross. I'm an interior designer when I'm not a podcaster, so I have always had lots and lots of gay male friends. I'm at happiest among gay men. And through all of my times, drag shows, going to gay bars, hanging out with the gay guys, I have never heard people talk about men. I haven't heard men talk about other men as much as I have MAGA men talk about men. There's just something so homosocial about the whole entire movement that is so bizarre. And then Jesse Waters, we saw him at the D&C, and we were so excited to be there. And we're standing like, we're back, you were probably there reporting, and he comes by, and it is priceless. To shave away. I was like, Oh, my God.

And he thought he was hot.

I have never met him in person, and I don't watch his show because it's during my show. And also because I like to have mental health. But this is, broadly speaking, this is like a sadness, I feel. If I can have some empathy for a lot of people who feel so embedded into the conservative GOP world, it's like they can't be themselves. It is. It's sad.

Typically, I'm sad about it if people are doing that in a passive way. If somebody lives in a red town or red city, and they were raised religiously, and they live a double life, but in a very passive way, I have the most empathy for that. Then I can even- But these people are mean snakes.

These people are- And living secret lives.

Maybe we don't know. These people are, during the day, they wake up and they're demonizing gay people, demonizing trans people, demonizing drag queens, banning books. And then at night, it's a Grinder and eat Nass. I mean, you know what I mean? So fuck them. I say out all of them that do that. There you go. But typically, I have so much empathy. Us living in Oklahoma, I had so many gay friends that just coming out of the closet was just It was brutal. Brutal for them. It was really painful. Their families, their friends, so much judgment.

Okay.

Had it or hit it, TikTok dances.

Had it.

I can't dance, so Me neither.

And I always say, we just hired a wonderful new social media person. I'm like, I'll do anything, but nobody wants to see me dance. Nobody wants to see me in a makeup chair, particularly. It's like, I'm just going to nerd out. And if people want to watch it, great. Otherwise, Yeah, I've had it. Some of them are funny. I mean, some of them, when people make it funny, they're in on the joke. That's funny. But yeah, I've otherwise had it.

Okay. Had it or hit it, Harvard.

Had it.

Had it. Yeah.

Don't care. I I don't care. You have a huge endowment. I don't love, of course, Trump and others attacking institutions, but I've had it. They gave up.

They gave up. Yeah.

Okay. Had it or hit it, Bad Bunny.

Oh, hit it.

Yeah, me too.

I'm obsessed with this story. Did you see, because we talked about little Mike Johnson a little bit, which I just always call him because- We call him Moses Mike.

Okay. Because he said God woke him up in the middle of the night, said, Hey, little guy, wake up. You're Moses.

So we call him Moses Mike. So there's that. So someone asked him, did you see this? Someone asked him about Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl the other day, a couple of days ago. And he said, I just don't think it's a good idea. And the reporter said, Why not? And he said, I don't think he has a very big following. I'd prefer someone like, wait for it, Lee Greenwood.

I thought fell over dead when I heard that.

It's my favorite thing that's happened this week, perhaps.

This is what makes me want to get this microphone and bang it over Democrats' head and go, It is a fucking lay up. All the cool people are Democrats. All the cool celebrities are Democrats. Take this thing, what Moses Mike did, and just fucking run his pipsqueak ass through the meat grinder. But it just gets lost. And I think that we're at such a disadvantage because I've been reading a lot about how organized and funded the right wing off of Fox News, the network of all of the... You've seen that diagram with the bubbles? Yeah. That's all funded by billionaires. And they send these right wingers, little young right wingers, free of charge through the social media school that they pay for, and they get them ready. So if a Democrat messed up like that, they would disseminate it through the right wing, all of those. And this is off of Fox, even. And it just would get ripped on TikTok. It would find algorithms and everything. And the Democrats just do not have that structure at all. And they've taken for granted mainstream media, which now Now, a lot of it is so compromised.

I mean, like that Barry Weiss or whatever, she's taking over CBS. It's just crazy.

It's so true. You know Kara Swisher? She's the best. Yes, I love her. She's the best. Always says what's on her mind. It's the greatest. And her podcast is great. Democrats who are progressive lean or what have you, who have platforms, don't support each other, really. Don't support each other on platforms by having each other on the different platforms, by lifting up work of each other's platform. So there's that. And the other piece is, I remember a couple of weeks ago, months ago, it's all the space time continuum is a little confusing, where there was this story that was so scandalous about how an outside group was paying creators to create content.

Chorus or something like that.

Whatever it is. And I'm like, that was a little clunky and messy, but I'm like, you know what? I hope there are billionaire democratic donors who are going to pay some creators to create content, not in a way that should be repeating the D&C talking points, but should be free-wielding you, 22-year-olds, who are really good at talking about health care in a personal way, but don't have the means to do it and expand what you're doing. Let's fund you and give you money so you can do it. I think that's a good thing, and that doesn't exist as much on the Democratic side either, and I hope it does over the coming years.

Yeah, I agree. Somebody asked us. I think we were interviewed by The Guardian, and this girl came to Oklahoma City, and she asked what we thought about that because everybody was so mad about it. And I go, I'm not super mad about that. I don't see If they are shilling 100% for the preservation politics that drive me crazy about Democrats- That's not effective anyway.

It's that strategy.

I oppose that. But in general, I see every other left-leaning or pro-democracy, let me even say that, podcast or YouTube channel, not as a competitor, but as an ally. And when you think about when you go to suburbs, when you see all of the chain restaurants, they're all put there together on purpose because everybody goes there to that one area to eat. Their cars just start driving there. The same thing with all of us on this side, the more of us and the more we collaborate, the better. I see no one as a competitor and everyone as an ally. That's from Ben, my sailor, to Hassan Piper. We have to have a huge, gigantic tent. And if we all agree on everything, we would be a fucking cult.

We'd be boring. We shouldn't agree. Lawrence O'Donnell said this to me once because he said something once, and I just like, on some set, and I was like, I totally disagree with that in the moment. At the end, I was like, I'm sorry, I just bit your head off. And he goes, No, it's good. It's fine. We disagree on all sorts of things. It's such a good point. It's funny. And also, I consume a lot of people's content. When I told somebody in the hallway, one of Chris Hayes' producers, that I was coming here to do this today, and he was like, Oh, you learned about them from us. And I was like, No. I was like, I am a listener outside of I know that you've appeared on Chris to just show because he's right before me, so I see what's on his show. I was like, No, I knew about them before, or I don't know, maybe around the same time, but probably before. It's a funny thing. But yeah, it's such a good point. I think this goes back to your preservation question is point, which is such a good one. You also have to let these people be free and create content in their own style and way.

And misstep. Democrats need to embrace missteps, apologize and move on the way the Republicans do it. And I always think about what was this Al Franken. I always think about Al Franken.

Doesn't it seem so silly now.

I always think about that. And I think Democrats, whether you're a politician, work for somebody in their office, you work for the government, or you are a podcaster or a journalist or whatever, if you misstep, own it, say you're sorry, and move the fuck on. Exactly. Unless it's just something cancelable, which those things do exist. But generally, sometimes we'll say something because we're bullshit artists. We sit here and bullshit all day, and sometimes I'm like, I was thinking about what I said the other day, and I think I was wrong. I think this, the evolution of conversation Democrats need to embrace.

And if you don't operate like that, you're boring. Because Because you're so worried about what you're going to say all the time and how you say it. And then you sound scripted and boring.

All right, last one. Had it or hit it. I've had it podcast.

Hit it, obviously. I'm a child of a therapist, so I can say you guys are like a form of therapy to so many people, me included. I try to listen to Lawrence O'Donnell's show on the way home, but I give myself license on some days. I love to listen to you guys on the way home because It's just like you're unwinding. I also listen to Kylie Kelly's podcast, which is also great. Oh, yeah. I know so many people feel that way because it's like you feel like you need a community of people where you can just say the thing right now and feel scared and frustrated frustrated and worried about your neighbor. One of the things I love that you guys do is you really lift up other voices and lift up... You're not just talking about white women, right? You're not just staring at each other talking about white women, which we could talk about that earlier.

The most disappointing demographic.

The struggles of the wealthy white woman.

Wealthy white women and why they vote the wrong way. Next episode, you talk about the issues impacting so many people in communities that need a voice, and that's so powerful. So thank you for what you do.

Thank you. And thank you for coming on. Tell our listeners about your new podcast.

Oh, thank you. So we did a first season of The Blueprint last year, which was really the day after the election. I woke up with hair sticking up and black eye makeup. I actually was anchoring till 6: 00 in the morning, so I don't even know. And I was like, I need to talk to people about what just happened and what it means now. We really need to self-reflect. Everybody's a part of it. Me going on television every day and saying fascism, authoritarianism, is that the right thing or not? What do we need to learn? That's what the first season was really about. This season is about looking forward. We're not going to genuflect on 2024. There are some things, maybe if people bring them up. But I'm interested in what I'm going to do is talk to people who are not afraid to say the thing and don't agree necessarily. There are big debates in the Democratic... We've been talking about them, right? Yes. I mean, it's like, what about purity tests? Good, bad, right? Generational change. Is it the true everywhere there needs to be a younger person or not true, some other places?

What are the issues that should on? What should you talk about? What shouldn't you? So that's what the focus is, and I'm really excited about it. It launches next week.

I'm super exciting.

I'm super exciting. You guys are one of my first episodes.

Yes. So you guys, listeners, cross over, cross from I've Had It to Blueprint with Jen Saki. All right, pums, tell them.

We will see you next Tuesday and Thursday.

I'll tell you what I've had it with.

Let's hear it. I've had it with that. Listen up, patriots, gaytriots, innatriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called iHip News. It's Monday through Friday, every day, 15 to 20 minutes hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America, always served with a side of petty grievances.

We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcast and YouTube.

Please go rate, subscribe, and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind, pumps. Pumps, what does an angel say? Caca. A little bit more enthusiasm. Caca. That's it. That's the patriotism that this country means right there.