Transcript of Danny McBride Returns

Hi, my name is Danny McBride, and I feel thrilling about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

Wait, thrilling? You feel thrilling?

Thrilling, not thrilled to be here.

That's so cool. The way you said it has nothing to do with me.

It sounds to me like plausible deniability about it.

Yes.

Fall is here. Hear the yell.

Back to school.

Ring the bell. Brand new shoes.

Walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. It's not just me that does this podcast. I am the beneficiary of having very strong, powerful, independent voices joining me. One of those is Sona Movsesian. Hello, Sona, and welcome. Hi. Hello. And how can I welcome you when you already are welcome and you are an integral part of this whole.

What are you doing?

Matt Gourley, good to see you as well. And I thank you for your service. No one gets there alone. So here we are together on Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Who are you? And I am—

What? Sorry, who are you?

My name is Conan O'Brien.

No, you're not.

And I'm someone who's just filled with gratitude.

No, you're not.

Glad to be here.

Have you been body snatched?

I was body snatched. I was very tired last night, and I fell asleep next to a strange new plant I found. Oh, no! And when I woke up this morning, there there was a decayed, beady-eyed carcass next to me.

Yeah.

And then my body felt refreshed and new.

I like this. Whatever it is.

I do too. If you ever got body snatched, I feel like we'd all know, like, right away.

Yeah.

And it would just be you being nice to us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or not doing bits, just being normal.

That's right. That's how you would know. I would just be, hello, Sona, how are you? And how's your family?

And you'd be interested in the answer, and you would wait for a response.

You know what would be funny? The minute I— if there were body snatchers out there, if I came in and all I would have to do is say, "Hi, Sona, how are you?" And you would shoot me in the head with a shotgun.

Yes! Yes, I would!

And you'd be right.

Yes, I would. 100%. I would know immediately.

I remember there was an episode of The Simpsons back in my time where I think it was one of the Halloween episodes. There's zombies that are taking over Springfield, and Homer's shooting zombies left and right. And then Flanders pops up in a window, and Homer shoots his head off. And someone says, "Um, how did you know that he was a zombie?" And he went, "He was a zombie?" I just always love that joke. That he blew Flanders' head off, not even thinking about him being a zombie or not. "You shot zombie Flanders." "Flanders was a zombie?" Uh, anyway, um, no, I'm, uh, I just wanted to give credit where credit's due, and I think this is a village.

He's still going.

I know, it's really unsettling.

What have you done with—

I want to talk about something, which is I always have ink on my hands. I don't know if that comes up on the podcast, but I don't think it has. I write a lot with, uh, pens and I'm constantly doodling and I always have a pen in my hand and I'm constantly writing notes in a journal or on a scrap of paper. And, uh, lately I've been using this fountain pen that Jeff Ross got me, uh, for my birthday, which is really nice and I use it all the time and, but it does bleed a little bit of ink and I'm constantly—

Does it squirt?

What's that?

Does it squirt?

Like a novelty?

No, I'm not. I'm not doing anything.

It doesn't. No, no. It's just that when you're working around bottles of ink and stuff like that, and I kind of like it. All my life I've been—

It's like an actual fountain pen.

Like there's liquid.

Yeah, it's really nice. And I'm not— this is not an ad.

It's—

I think it's an Aurora. It's an Aurora. It's really nice. It's a good pen. And he got it for me and I really like it. And thanks again, Jeff. And let me try that. I use it all the time. But look at my hands. And I noticed when we were in— we were just shooting a travel show, Sona, and you were with me, or in all of my different travels, I'm always about to go on camera and I see that there's ink over my right hand everywhere. And I just look like a little sprite.

First of all, feel how warm this is. What have you been doing with this pen?

Well, I keep it in a safe place.

Why is it leaking so much? No, it's not leaking. It's not leaking.

You guys gotta diss the Aurora pen. It's just that Sometimes. No, no, no.

You got to—

God, you're not— just look.

See, I'm writing with the pen incorrectly. No, see, whatever you're— you went like this.

And with a fountain pen, you need to come at it with an angle. You were coming at it straight down, and that's just stupid.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was writing, huh? Yeah, well, I know he's— I think he's—

well, I always hold it and I flip it around in my hand.

Oh, okay.

And I always do that with pens.

Why are pens like that better than normal pens?

I'm not— well, they're beautiful looking.

Yeah, they are.

And, um, it's just kind of nice. I've always been a little bit— even when I was a kid, I told you I loved pens, paper. I wanted office supplies. Yeah, I mean, what a freaky kid. I wasn't asking for a baseball glove. I wanted a little stamp that said "void." I wanted ledgers. I wanted ledgers. I wanted— did you get them? Um, yeah, my parents were very nice to me. They were— they would indulge me. But I remember thinking, all I want to do is be able to sign forms and then stamp them and then put them in a pneumatic tube, like in the 1920s.

Or Home Depot in the '90s.

Yeah, exactly. So I just, I was always into that.

That's okay.

That's okay. But anyway, I'm just getting a little self-conscious now that, you know, I go to these nice events or events where I'm supposed to be on camera, and sometimes I look at the picture later on and there's just, it looks like I've crawled out of a grave.

Oh yeah.

I think you're doing it wrong.

What?

I think you're just writing incorrectly.

You know what you need is like— No, this from the person who— I'm not going to talk about the angle with which you attack the page.

I was about to say there's no ink on my finger, but there is.

There is.

You need some of that powder that like Shakespeare would throw on it after they write, you know, that soaks it up.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was just sand back in the day.

I don't know.

Do you have a quill?

I don't have a quill. I've never had a quill.

Okay.

But—

I feel like you're a quill guy. I feel like you're very quillesque. You're a real quill guy. You've seen my blotters over the years.

I would just fill them with what?

Little—

So many doodles. We kept them all. They were on your desk.

Yeah, we have them.

And then when they would fill up, I would replace them and then you would just doodle away.

Just blanket them. And you could probably tell my mood if you looked at like, oh, well, here's a blotter from 1997.

Yeah.

You could probably tell what was going on in my life.

Well, even right now in your journal, you've written in some kind of hieroglyphics.

Yeah, I write. Does that mean anything? No, I just try and create little languages and I, I like, uh, making lines. But anyway, that's what I got is that I'm covered in ink all the time now. Mm-hmm. And I need to, um, I need to, I need to clean up my shit a little bit here.

Did you?

Yes, go ahead.

I, I've completely stopped using pens and paper. I'm, I'm, I'm past that. I got a Kindle Scribe. Yep. That I've started to, to doodle on, which is great. Yeah.

So I don't—

so are you trying to get a free one? Why would you bring this up? No, I'm just saying, I, if you need a solve, you can move into the digital age instead of going back to—

no, no, no, no, no, no. It's better for paper.

Move forward. You can You can email yourself notes. It's great. I, um, no offense, no offense, but I like the tactile nature. This is tactile. Listen, I'm very suspicious, Blay, and for good reason, that you mentioned it's a Kindle Scribe because we can take that out. Because we don't have to take it out. We're going to leave it in because based on your past behavior, I think you're going to try and write that off now. No, I think you are. No, no, no, no, no.

You know what?

I was gone for that.

And Blay, we got to talk, man.

Can I— you know what?

If we brought that up again, I need to—

I need to apologize.

Pause. We're going to continue this in the segment after the interview.

It will be actually part 4 of Blay's tax saga, tax evasion scandal.

And by the way, Blay is guilty of the same thing that put Capone in prison.

Okay, take us to the intro.

Okay, but yes, today is a hilarious writer, producer, and actor behind such shows as Eastbound and Down, Vice Principals, and The Righteous Gemstones. He now has a new book titled Thrilling Tales of Modern Men. Very excited he's back on the podcast. Danny McBride, welcome. Danny, as you know, I'm a massive fan of yours, have been since day one.

Well, the feeling is mutual, and I'm just thrilled that you're here.

And we have a lot of stuff to talk about, and we'll talk more in depth about it in a little bit. But you wrote a book of short stories called Thrilling Tales of Modern Men. And you write so well, and the stories are great. And I'm very proud of you and also jealous because I like to write. I haven't gotten my shit together to do something like this. And this is fantastic. And then the thing I'm most jealous of is the first quote. You get you know, known people to write a nice quote on the back. Yours is from Sturgill Simpson. And I love Sturgill Simpson.

Oh, he's the best.

And so much so that I have a band on the side, and I play Sturgill Simpson. And I've said to people, "I'd like to get to know Sturgill Simpson." And people said, "He was on your show." And I'm like, "I know, but it's not the same." Like, I wish Sturgill Simpson was my friend. He's such a good writer, such a good singer-songwriter.

Well, I can make that happen. And I could negotiate that meeting.

I'm pretty sure.

You really could? I could. Yeah.

It's going to end up with me, a suitcase of cash in a parking lot late at night where the deal goes down.

We'll meet you around the world somewhere at one of your destinations for your show.

I would love to hang with both of you at the same time. But this book, we will talk about it. But I want to start on some other stuff first, which is, who the fuck do you think you are?

Let me tell you.

Come here. Let me tell you something. I don't like you, and I don't like your comedy. I don't like you. I like your Southern ways. I'm from Boston, see? You know, I was thinking about you, reading up about you, and one of the things that we really have in common was how important Saturday morning cartoons were to us and sort of our comedic outlook. You were watching— first of all, you took it really seriously. I remember my brothers and I did too. We would study the Saturday morning lineup. Because it would refresh. It was a big thing back in the day. Now I think new shows come and go all the time. But if you're like me, I'm older than you, but I remembered in the summer you'd start reading about the shows that were going to come out in the fall, what the schedule and the lineup was going to be. You'd circle the ones that were interesting to you in the TV Guide. They'd be, you know, you'd talk about it and then you— we were there Saturday morning. I would, like, get up and have coffee.

Oh, me too. Yeah.

I was like, why?

Pounding it.

I got coffee and a couple of cigarettes.

I got to make it to Smurfs.

Yeah. And then I would watch these shows with real interest. Yeah. So you were watching— probably the thing that influenced me the most was not a new show. It was Warner Brothers cartoons. The, you know, Looney Tunes characters, they influenced my comedy timing, everything. And you were into Daffy Duck?

I was into Donald Duck.

Donald Duck?

Yeah. I like—

I don't respect that.

I like how, I like how angry he was. He was always so pissed off and it was just such a funny, uh, so funny against someone like Mickey who just literally never loses his temper.

Okay.

And then he's just buddies with the angriest guy who's ever existed.

All right, well I got that wrong. So now we're talking about Daffy Duck is very cool too. I I love Donald Duck because— I mean, Daffy Duck, because he's— he really is disturbingly insane.

Yeah, he is. He can pull his beak off and put it around the back of his head sometimes.

But I mean, just— he needs to be medicated. He needs to go to McLean Hospital in Massachusetts. And we're all laughing, but it's like, no, no, no, he's— we know what this is now.

If he was on TV now, he would get the care that he needs.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so you like Donald Duck. Donald Duck is so pissed.

Oh, so pissed.

Yeah.

And everything, the whole universe is always shitting on him all the time.

Yes.

He just has a little blue shirt on, just walking around pissed off.

That awful blue shirt and no pants.

And no pants. No pants.

Maybe I think that's why he's pissed.

Yeah, it probably is.

Walk around with no pants for a while and you'll He'll just be an angry guy. Bus seats hot. Not that hot. It is when you have no pants. Uh, so you watch that and you watched—

my lineup was, uh, the Dungeons Dragons cartoon show. That was awesome. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think of what else came in. The Littles. Do you— I don't know if you're—

I think you and I might be the same age.

I was born in '76.

'73.

Yeah.

So yeah, The Littles.

You were a little too old to be watching The Littles. Let's be honest. No, I was almost aging out. I was a late-birder.

And what I bloomed into was disturbing.

I just have to admit, I was watching Saved by the Bell when I was 45 years old.

Those kids were hot.

Those girls are pretty! Dude, you're 45! You're here in an electronics store watching Saved by the Bell on 9 televisions. You've been here every morning.

Um, yeah, the Littles were awesome though.

What are the Littles? I don't even know what that is.

Their, their theme song was literally, we are the Littles. Uh, they just said their name and they were just tiny people that lived in someone else's house. Normal people, normal-sized people, but they would like make their beds and stuff out of like matchboxes and they would like design things like that, you know, were full size, but they would use it to their advantage.

Cutesy animated. They kind of all look like elves almost.

Yeah, somebody should, somebody should remake that. Then you mentioned Shirt Tails. I remember that, that was such a strange concept for a show, which was just animals who their shirts said stuff, right?

That was it.

Wait, what?

That was the concept. Animals that wear clothing. That wear shirts. They wear shirts and their shirts say things?

Yeah, I think they change depending on their emotions and stuff, right?

I believe so.

So the shirts are like a mood ring, but they have words on them.

And they might not have worn pants. They might have been—

Yeah. Oh, there we go.

And see, again, the trend of no pants.

Yep.

Just shirts.

You know what? I walked through a mall wearing a shirt that said, "Hug me," with no pants. Not one person hugged me.

Because you're busy watching Simpsons.

Yeah, I guess the security guard, it's kind of a hug when they pull you to the ground.

Yeah, that counts.

That counts.

That's what they were doing.

So you're growing up, that's important to you. You're raised Baptist.

Yeah. Yep.

And your mom used to perform at the church. She would write out, like, skits and do the scripts and make puppets, and she would do a little show.

Yeah.

That must have influenced you.

It definitely did. Uh, yeah, I mean, I remember I was like surprised when she even took it on. Like, you know, we just went to church, then suddenly my mom is stepping up into this position where she's going to do puppet shows in front of the whole church, right? I was like, how are you gonna do this, Mom? You know about puppets? You know how to do puppet stuff? She does. Uh, but yeah, they would— she would kind of like drum up these like 2 to 3 page little, uh, scripts, and then she would— it was her It was my dad sometimes, and then it would be other people from the church playing some of the other characters. And it was just like the children's sermon before the big sermon. They would, uh, you know, so it'd be something, you know, thou shalt not steal or whatever, and it's just a little skit about a kid who steals like lunch money at school and why you shouldn't do it, right? But it was, you know, I think what was cool about it was the idea of being able to see something created and then like a few days later performed in front of people.

And then, you know, my— from my point of view, I'm not doing the puppets. I'm not— I don't have anything— I don't have anything to do with it. I'm just sitting there watching the process. Like, I'm seeing her in our kitchen writing these scripts and like, you know, running the lines. And then a few days later, I'm at church like looking around, watching people watch it and respond to it. And, you know, I just thought it was cool. I think that was like the beginning of me sort of like even understanding like, oh, this is like something you could do. You can— you can write things in your kitchen and people might respond to it.

Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. Were you quite religious then when you were a kid, when you were a Baptist?

I wouldn't say I was religious. I think I spent most of my time doodling on the minister's face in the program or just imagining what else was going on.

I think we went to the same. I think whatever religion you are, I'm that religion.

Yeah.

But it's funny because now that I stopped going probably in middle school, but we went all the time. But then you look back and like, oh, it was actually kind of awesome that for an hour you had to just be forced to sit there and be quiet. While, you know, I think my imagination would run wild during that time.

Me too. I was Catholic, so I went to Catholic Mass.

But you guys had to stand up and sit down a lot more than we stand up and sit down. We could just be lazy. We could just sit there every now and then clap along to a song.

Yeah. No, we had to stand up and sit down a lot. But there's still a lot of time to look around. I would just look around St. Lawrence's Church and like, I would look up and just imagine all kinds of insane things because you're not allowed— you weren't on a tablet. They didn't have tablets then. And you just— you had to— you were trapped with your mind.

Yeah.

And I wasn't thinking about the stuff I was supposed to be thinking about. You said that your— you have said that your parents got divorced, and that also probably had an effect on whatever you questioning.

Yeah.

Baptist thing.

Yeah. I just saw it as, you know, I don't think it was exclusive to like the Baptist church, but it was at that time in the '80s, it was sort of like, you know, people weren't getting divorced as much. Much, and especially at the church, I think. So it was just— we, after it kind of happened, I felt like my mom didn't really feel like welcome there as much. And so then she would drop me and my sister off, and we're like, well, we're only going because you were going. We ain't trying to go to this thing.

You walk in, you peek, the car's left, and then you guys go out the back door.

Yeah.

And you know, the cool thing about that church I went to is called Salem Baptist Church. It was in, uh, Spotsylvania, Virginia. But it was actually a church that was around during the Civil War. So Um, it was just kind of wild to go to some little church that was like, oh, this was like standing.

Was it the same Spotsylvania?

Yeah.

As the battle?

Yeah. Yep. Same one. Yeah. A lot of, lot of Civil War action in my hometown.

Yeah.

Lots.

Those are, those are, those are nasty battles too.

That were, that, that area too had some of the nastiest battles. Like, I think it is, it's known as the bloodiest ground in all of North America because of how many, uh, battles were there. But the gnarliest one, I think, is that Battle of Wilderness that was there. And that's like this insane battle that happened over the course of a few days in the forest. The forest was on fire and guys were literally just like hatcheting each other. I mean, it was like— it was awful. It was insane. And yeah, it's, uh, killer. I used to go there all the time and just enjoy myself. Watch, think about that, that brutality.

Yeah, good times.

So great.

Now it's a great memory. That's a good— that's a good first first date. I've talked about this on the podcast, but I'm a, you know, history buff and a Civil War guy. And I remember my wife and I— it's— people think it was our honeymoon. It was not. It was after we got married, but just shortly after, like a couple of months later. I had a week off from the late night show.

Honeymoon, isn't that—

no, we had our honeymoon and then we came back from it. But then maybe 2 months later, I had a week off and she said, let's take a trip. And I said, yeah, 'Let's drive down through Georgia and visit the different towns in Georgia.' And, you know, she liked it. And then the next thing you know, I'm saying— she said, 'Where are we going to now?' And I said, 'Andersonville.' Oh. And she said, 'What's that?' And I said, 'That's the giant prisoner of war camp where the Confederates kept all the Union troops, didn't feed them, and they all died of diarrhea.' And she said, 'We're going to Atlanta to the Four Seasons Hotel.' And we're gonna drink Appletinis and get our diarrhea there. So we did that instead.

But I think you had a great idea.

I think I had a great idea.

Think of all—

looking at a field, think of all the diarrhea. I do think one of the things that made The Righteous Gemstones just just so great was you knew your subject. You understood these people. And also, I always sense there's affection there too. Like, I don't think it works to make a comedy about people if you just think they're stupid and loathsome.

Totally.

And that's not what you did. You had a real understanding and affection for these people. And found them ridiculous, but also understood them at the same time. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. And I think we were— that is what we were trying to do. And I think we extended to a lot of the stuff from even, you know, Eastbound to Vice Principals. It's sort of, you know, we know that we're not dealing with, like, the best examples of mankind. And— but I think that it's fun to treat them still with a little bit of empathy and even giving them enough depth. So, you know, there's layers there. I think it— I think when comedy is— written where there is such a disdain for what you're joking about, it could kind of become boring. I think it becomes more unexpected if you're confused as the audience of where you even kind of sit with this person.

Yeah, I think— I mean, I talk about this now. I do think it's very tricky. You always have to have a blend in comedy. If you're just thinking about the comedy, and obviously we're very divided right now in this country, and people are yelling at each other a lot, and very vitriolic. And I think sometimes that, I don't know, it just makes comedy— if you want to talk about it or portray it in any way, the only way to do it is to show some nuance and empathy for a different point of view. But that's not what a lot of people are interested in. Yeah, that makes sense.

It totally makes sense. Then the thing is, when everyone is kind of like on both sides are angry about the same exact stuff, it also just makes any comment you're making sort of feel redundant. Like people, it's like well-traveled paths, you know. So I do think when you can find that nuance, you you probably have a better shot of actually, like, making people think if it's not something that they've been shouted out about over and over again.

The, um, what's interesting, and I think it's interesting to me, is that you, you came to be known through comedy and hugely successful in comedy, but you've also carved out time to do these other things. You, you, uh, were a huge force behind the Halloween franchise, the reboots. And it's so fascinating to me because I've always thought there's a weird— like, sometimes people say, or I've said, many people have said it, there's a symbiosis between comedy and music. Like, a lot of comedians also love music, and there's some kind of weird parallel. I also think there's something going on between comedy and horror. They're very different. But also, there are things about them that aren't that different because it's all about surprise.

Exactly. I think you're— with both of them, you're structuring an experience. You know, you're— with a joke, you'll, you know, you obviously want to pace things out so that the punchline gets the biggest laugh. And I think it's the same way with those scares. You think about how, you know, we'll make them a little scared here and then we'll let them off the hook here and then boom, we'll hit them here. So I think there is a little bit of that. That is similar, is the architecture of trying to make sure you get the result that you're going for.

Also, I mean, if you look at Jordan Peele, his work, if you look at Obsession, if you look at Weapons, a lot of these people got their chops in comedy. And then when I was watching Weapons last year, and one of the reasons that I really wanted to do something with it on the Oscars was, that character of Aunt Gladys is, to me, a comedy character. And there's so much of the movie that's kind of funny at the same time. And it's that— That's that razor-thin line between this is hilarious and this is horrifying. And many times when I've been trying to be funny in my career, I've been horrifying.

But—

And if I tried to be funny to, you know, frighten any guy, I think they would just start laughing. So, but there's something going on there. And so, it must have been a great creative outlet for you. Clearly, it was.

It was a lot of fun. You know, that was— Jason Blum had come to David Green about adapting that. And, you know, David Green and I have gone to college. We went to college together. We've known each other for a really, really long time. And, you know, he came to me and was like, "I think I might do this. Would you want to help me?" I was like, no way, we should— you shouldn't relaunch Halloween. It's a terrible idea. I, I love Halloween. Don't do that.

Yeah.

Uh, but then as we were thinking about it, I was like, well, I mean, if someone's going to, why don't we give it a shot and let's see if we could. And, uh, yeah, it was honestly, it was like unreal. It was so funny to be sitting there like writing on that script and you're just writing, you know, the Shape walks into the room, you know, you're gonna—

I was formed in that movie. My babysitter made me watch it when I was 5 with the lights out and And so to, like, do away with all those sequels that in their own way I love, but to come back the way you guys did with the 2018 one, oh man, it was like closure for me.

It was.

Thank you.

The whole experience was awesome. Not only getting to do that, but even, you know, we had to go through steps of approval to do it. Like, David and I had to go to John Carpenter's house and pitch him what we wanted to do. And it was sort of like, I've never really been nervous about pitching an idea ever. I mean, it's just like, oh, they don't like it, they don't like it. But suddenly, as we're like knocking on his door, it's like, "Oh God, I think I'll be crushed if he doesn't like what this idea is. This is insane." And so we, you know, I'm meeting him and pitching him this idea of like, "We have an idea of what we want to do with something you've made." It was all of a sudden like, "What are the balls of us? What are we thinking?

We should never have this idea." It was awesome.

And then, you know, once we got his approval, we sent it to Jamie Lee Curtis to— because obviously it wouldn't work without her in it. And, uh, yeah, when she called back and was like, "Yeah, I want to do this," I mean, Green and I are just looking at each other like, "What is going on?" I mean, it was insane. And when it premiered at TIFF, I think it might have been the most proud I've ever been of anything that we've done. I mean, I was so nervous of what that reception was going to be for that one because I'm there with them. I'm a fan of this. It meant a lot. And I just really wanted it to work for the other fans. And I remember watching that and just my stomach was in knots. I wasn't eating for like 2 days leading up to it. Leading up to it, and we're sitting there, and when it got to the last half where they're like in the house with them and everybody in the theater's like cheering and applauding, I was just like, oh God, yes, yes, I'm gonna live! It was, it was awesome.

It was so much fun.

Yeah, I also think writing how someone gets killed—

yeah—

would be kind of fascinating because there is a real art to it, you know, just you If a character just gets killed, well, that's, you know, gets shot, it's boring. It's trying to think of these inventive ways that are sometimes 50% comedy.

Yeah.

The way someone, you know, and you watch these movies as they're competing with each other to do it in a more interesting way.

There's the scene at the rest stop when Michael Myers comes in and just drops teeth on the ground from— It's harrowing.

Well, yeah, I was— I think that idea about the teeth dropping, it might have even— I, I might be remembering it wrong, but I feel like it was, uh, our location, our buddy who works in locations who had that idea. And so that's the other thing is you're working on, uh, you know, if you're on a comedy, sometimes you'll get jokes from, right, people saying like, oh, you should say this, like, oh, it's not bad. When people suggest things like he should drop the teeth, you're like, great idea, but also So keep an eye on this dude.

That is fucked up. Yeah, yeah. Where'd you come up with that idea? Uh, uh, uh, sometimes— I don't know, I don't want to talk about it. I mean, I want to take the credit, but yeah. Um, that's fantastic. Yeah, I, I, uh, It just occurred to me that it would be, I don't know, it'd be really funny to shoot a short thing where it's you going to John Carpenter's house to pitch him, and he doesn't really like the idea, but you hang around. And then you use all the tropes from horror movies. Like, he goes into the kitchen at night and opens the refrigerator door, and then when he shuts it, you're right there. And you're like, "I just really think if I told you I don't want to do it!" The pitch. Yeah, it's just— It's called The Pitch.

Season of The Pitch.

Yeah, season of the pitch.

And you just keep— I don't let it go.

Yeah, you don't let it—

I become his dog.

Yeah, it's all the— exactly, it's all this stuff that has been used a million times. I'm always amazed now when people use some of those tropes that have been used way too many times and they don't put a spin on it. Yeah, really?

That's what we're talking about. Widow's Bay, there's a, there's a slasher episode and a moment with a shotgun that you wish you'd seen in slasher movies for decades, and you finally see it, and it's wonderful.

Widow's Bay is They're—

I mean, I can't wait to see it. Everyone I know loves it. And here's what I have on my list.

Here's what I— they're doing something new on that show, which is it's not a comedy. It's horror, and there's comedy, but they've got this ratio. It's like they invented this cocktail that's kind of perfect. And I don't think anyone's done quite that yet.

That's great.

And they do— I think one of the real brilliant things about the show is they'll get the tension up to this highest pitch, and then they'll always deflate it in this kind of humiliating way, but then get the pitch right back again. And without giving anything away, but there's just one point where there's a demon, and the main character, Matthew Rhys, has gone in, to, to talk to the demon. And this other woman says, "You got to go in there and talk to the demon." So he goes in, and he's starting to talk to the demon, and it's like knife's edge tense. And then the door just opens, and she goes, "I forgot my purse." And the demon and Matthew Rhys wait a second while she gets her purse, and she backs out. You're like, "Who the fuck does that? Who does that?" It's great. Anyway, I don't know why we're plugging this show that neither one of us is involved in. But Widow's Bay, you're a genius. Uh, killer. I just have to give a shout-out. Katie Dippold is the mind behind Widow's Bay. I think she's brilliant, and she's a former intern on our show.

And she's brilliant. She's done a ton of other work, but I think Widow's Bay is her masterpiece. And also, while we're talking about other people's work, I think Hyundai makes an incredible car.

Oh boy.

They've come a long way. Oh boy. Let's talk about this book because Thrilling Tales of Modern Men. I know that this is a theme you've worked on for a while in your work over the years, which is men kind of trying to confront maybe a world that's passed them by, or men who feel Well, you're, you're going to describe it better than I am.

No, no, you keep going. I want to hear how you describe it. No, you're, you're, you're totally right.

Men like me who are masculine and never lose. Uh, I'm gonna do— oh, actually, I can read from a New York Times review.

Oh, okay.

This is shit, it says. No, I'm kidding. Elementary. It's a very interesting—

I haven't read that one yet.

No, no, this is the New York Times. What a piece of shit. Shitty, shitty, shitty shit. What the hell?

My mom wrote that.

I thought this was in my toilet, but it was— no, it's a book. No, New York Times review, uh, some of the stories fit neatly into the canon of wounded protagonists who lash out. Others tip toward a quieter emotional depth, uh, albeit laced with obscenity and the occasional violent outburst. They're all undeniably the work of a storyteller interested in entertaining while also poking at what At What Makes Men Tick and Then Go Boom, which is—

yeah, I'd buy that book.

You'd write that?

I don't have to because—

I don't have to because you gave me one for free. Um, not for free.

I need—

I need the Venmo.

Yeah, it's coming, it's coming, because I'm real good with tech. Um, but this comes out of like— you're very— you're so good. And I'm going back to even if, you know, your first work, uh, Foot Fist Way, and through everything you've done at— and also, you know, Donald Duck, like people who are, uh, you know, assertive male characters that are also pissed off and frustrated because things aren't working out.

Yeah.

And that seems to be this area that you love exploring, and now you've got this really terrific book of short stories that tackles that.

Yeah, it's just, you know, it's an extension, I feel like, like what you were saying about the, the work I've done in TV. Like, this kind of came to me because I really just wanted to Could I do that and deliver that same experience, that same vibe, the same level of, uh, storytelling? Could I do it in a totally different format? And that was kind of why I entered this. And, you know, even the way the stories are sort of structured, like they start in essence with like a cold open and the title of the story like comes up later in the story.

Yeah.

And, uh, so it was kind of a way of me sort of trying to translate what I— I mean, I've written at this point like over 80 episodes of TV.

Yeah.

Uh, and so it trains your brain to work in a certain way when it comes to storytelling. And I was just trying to use some of the stuff I learned doing that to just put it into a totally new endeavor.

Also, it feels too like if you're writing episodic television, as you have, you know, brilliantly over the years, you've got these characters, you want to get multiple seasons, and you set up your own rules, and you set up who your, you know, protagonists are and your side characters, and then that's what you've got to work with over and over and over and over again. And with a project like this, you can have an idea, explore it in a short story.

Totally.

And then pivot, say, "Okay, I'm done with that. Now it's gonna be about a robot. Now it's gonna be about a magician who's suspended in a box in a mall and gets in over his head. Now it's gonna be about a sitcom actor who takes revenge on the coyote that killed his pet." Like, you're working in a shorter form, but you can go nuts, which is great.

You can go nuts. And, you know, Gemstones, I was writing on that for, you know, 7 years, basically. And it was so much fun. And it was fun writing for all those characters. And that world that we established was a ton of fun. And it's weird, you know, like, when you've worked that long on something, once it's over, it is like almost like a breakup. It's like getting over a relationship or something that I wanted to write more. But I felt like, "I ain't trying to get into anything too serious. I just need— I need to get in and out. I just need some short stories." You know? I felt like I couldn't, like, commit myself to telling a story that was gonna take that much time, you know? And so, the idea was like, "I think there's just a lot of stories I want to tell." And this allowed that to happen, where you didn't have to think of the story of like, "Well, will this have legs for 4 years? Will this, you know, when you tell this one episode, it has to connect to 6 other episodes that tell a story?" It's like you could enter it it, start it, and take it to completion in one sitting.

And, um, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. And I think after writing so much TV, it was, uh, yeah, it was just sort of a, a cleanse that I needed.

Well, uh, now is this— what is your process? I know it sounds like a boring question, but to me it's fascinating. Do you, do you write these stories here and there? Did you sit down to write a collection of short stories?

You know, I started— the— I think there's only like maybe 1 or 2 of them that are from this. But how I even began even writing in this format was when we were writing Vice Principals. It was— we wrote both of those seasons in 1 year. So it was 1 solid year of just working on that morning, noon, and night. And it was the— I was about, I think about 5 months in, I was feeling that thing of like, oh, I love these guys, but fuck, I have to do more with these guys.

You're locked in a room mentally with these few characters.

And you're just trying— it becomes a puzzle figuring it all out. And I was just sort of like, the idea of anything else felt appealing. So I just start— I start this thing where in the morning before I'd go into the writer's room, I would just freehand write like anything I wanted, and I would just get to about 3 or 4 pages and I would stop it. And I had no ambitions for what any of it would be. It didn't have to be anything. I didn't have to continue the same story, just whatever idea I wanted to, I would just let myself write that. And I did that for the rest of that year. I ended up filling up like 4 books full of just all this stuff, and I put it away and didn't go back to any of it. And it really did kind of help my brain as I was writing Vice Principals, to help me exercise different ideas and get things out and kind of stay excited when I would go into the writer's room. And then I guess it was around 2020, I just, like, pulled those books out and looked at them for the first time.

Like, was there anything in here that was, like, worth anything? And most of it sucked. But there were a few things that, that just kind of got my imagination going, where I was like, oh, it'd kind of been interesting if this thing continued, or if I wrote more on this, I would do this with it. And so that was kind of the beginning of it. I pulled out of those books probably about out maybe like 8 to 10 of the little kind of like snippets of stories and then started focusing on expanding those things. And then as I did that, I ended up getting rid of most of them. I kept like 1 or 2, uh, and then I just kind of was like, I want to do this, I want to try to like create a book that I put this sort of level of thought into. And, um, yeah, and then that just became, you know, I was kind of teaching myself how to do it. Um, I thought the big difference between doing this and then writing a script is with the script there's always someone else really talented is going to come in to make it better, you know, whether it's like, yeah, an actor is going to come in or the DP is going to make it look cool.

And it was kind of interesting to have it where you're like, oh, I'm just writing this, and then I really need to go— I need to do all that stuff myself. I need to make sure that this is translated to people the way I'm imagining.

Yeah, Ernest Hemingway didn't say, well, that's what I got, punch it up.

Yeah, give it a little juice.

The font will be really nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's one— let's focus on this one story, Institute of Men, because it's a fascinating idea. Do you want to talk about it a little bit?

It's, um, it's a story about a guy who, uh, is getting self-conscious about his, his hairline is receding, he's losing his hair, and, uh, he's worried a co-worker of his thinks that he has Gollum-esque features and that if he loses his hair, it really could be bad for him, you know. Uh, so he, uh, He starts to, uh, he's like looking for a solution, and he kind of sees this ad for this place called the Institute of Men, and he decides to sign up. And then he goes to this place, and it's a little unorthodox there. There's some strange questions they ask him, and it's a very odd procedure that he has to kind of sign away to. And then it's one of those monkey paw situations. He gets hair, but there's a price that comes with the hair.

But I also love this— what— there's little things in it that remind me of some of the sort of comedy/horror things we've been talking about. About where, you know, he has to fill out— you know, when you're getting— gonna get a medical procedure, you have to fill out a questionnaire, and the questions are just really— yeah, they're not things that you would normally see on a medical questionnaire.

It should have been the first red flag. Yeah, they're, they're asking him things like how many friends he has and the last time he cried.

When was the last time he cried?

Yeah, when have you been in a fight?

And it's so funny because I've had ideas over the years for little strange things that's like, it's not a comedy sketch, it's just a concept. It's kind of freaky, but I'd like to expand on it more and write it out. But, um, you know, I've never— I don't know, never— I've never done it. It's, it's why— I mean, I've been a massive fan of yours, and then when you did this, I was like, well, this man, this man, this man did the thing that I have never been able to do.

If an idiot like me could do it, Conan, that's—

that is not how I— that is not That's not how I think about it. But it's really exceptional. And also, it has to just feel— to have a book on the shelf. I mean, there are a lot of celebrity famous people toss off books, and that's not what this is. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. No, I worked as hard on this as I would on any of the shows I've worked on. I mean, I was, like, living and breathing it. For the last year. And, you know, the craziest part about it is like you, you finish it and then you turn in and then it's like the rewriting it where it's like, you know, you rewrite an episode of TV, it's 30 pages, like, I can get through this in a day or two. You get the notes and you look at it like, this is like a 400-page document. I got to rewrite this. Where the hell do I even start? I don't even know if I could read this fucking thing in a month, you know? But then you do. You get down into it where you do just start. It just happens. I just— I went away. And just left my computer on and just sort of like would just pace back and forth. Like, just approach it sentence at a time, Danny. Like, don't get intimidated by the, by the weight of it. And then it does start to strip away. You do start to like, you're like Neo in The Matrix.

You're like, get rid of that, put that in, change that. You can just start doing it. Yeah.

I've never had that.

I'll show you.

I've never been Neo in that. I'm Keanu in Point Break. That's who I am. I am. Uh, so what is— okay, this— what are you working on now? Because this, this project is done, and I hate to say, okay, what else you got? You know what have you done for me lately?

I've been working on something I'm pretty excited about. You know, I, I approached Paramount last year about, uh, trying to relaunch GI Joe for them as a feature. Yeah, talk about cartoons, dog.

Uh, this is Yes.

Uh, and so, uh, yeah, the guys I write Gemstones with, uh, Jeff Bradley and John Cacciuri, we jammed, uh, we, we jammed out this script that Paramount's excited about, and we're gonna try to— that's what we're trying to make next year.

Wow.

You can't say anything, huh?

I can't say. You know what, it's not a comedy. It's like a grounded action movie.

Oh my God.

Um, you know, in the comics there's, uh, this town Springfield that is like secretly Cobra lives there. I have that original comic. Yeah, I loved it. And so our, our story takes place there.

And, um, I realize that Matt's gonna follow you home.

Yeah, you gotcha.

Make sure you watch the gate close behind you when you get home. But don't, don't just assume that no one's walking in after you.

But don't worry, I'll be dressed like Duke from G.I. Joe.

You're gonna go to shut the refrigerator tonight. That's always there.

That was like the Halloween thing of like feeling like insane writing The Shape. This was like, I— when I'm like right in the climax of it and we're sitting here and I'm putting things like Cobra Commander and Snake Eyes fighting, I just had to like stop and like go downstairs to my wife and I'm like, this is nuts. I used to do this when I was a kid. Every day I would make these guys fight each other and now I'm writing that shit.

You're living my life. I'm so excited.

Wow.

Tears of blood from that gorilla. Yeah. I do think that, and I chalk it up to pure luck, but there are so many times now where I'm doing something, I realize this is how goofed around as a kid.

Yeah.

And now I'm doing it and people are saying, "And cut. Nicely done." I'm not getting yelled at.

Yeah.

They're not telling you to clean up your toys.

Yeah.

They're paying you handsomely.

Yeah.

That's all fine. Let's get back to G.I.

Joe.

Yeah.

Walton Goggins. I have to ask you about Walton Goggins because I know him a bit and he's been here. He's just a fascinating creature.

He really is.

And I mean, you must have, the second you saw him do anything, thought like, "Oh, I gotta know that guy." 100%. Because he's such a— he's like a— Walton Goggins is a character you would create. I mean, the person Walton Goggins. Yeah.

The universe pushed us together. I love him so much. He's one of my best friends. And yeah, I mean, since the very first time we worked together on Vice Principals, him and I have just had such a fast friendship. And, you know, we went to— we took our families to Greece together last year.

Just hilarious.

Yeah, he's just so funny and so good.

He was here to do the podcast. I don't know if you remember this, but he got here a little bit early, and then one of his people said, "Walton's very tired. He's going to take a power nap for 5 minutes." And he went into that little office where you were sitting, that little green room with the couches and the sliding door that goes outside. And I walk by, and he's— asleep on the couch, but he looked like Dracula sleeping in his casket. He was like, like this, and his eyes were closed, and he slept really hard for exactly 5 minutes.

Wow.

And then came in here and he gave us a full blast of the Goggins.

I love it.

He gave us full Goggins.

Full metal Goggins.

Full metal Goggins.

Yeah.

When We went to Greece last year. It's like, you know, I mean, he is— he's a force. And it was awesome walking around Greece. Everyone, uh, recognized him. He had such a stellar year with White Lotus, and everyone was coming up. And Walton was dressed for it. I mean, what— we would go out and Walton is like in full white linens. And then, you know, I'm there with my kids, they're wearing like Crocs, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We'll take this photo. We'll take the photo for you. We go to these beach clubs and like everyone in his family are just like finely dressed and just look like they're off a magazine. I just got my little redneck kids in me sitting here with bad suntans.

So he's like Aristotle Onassis and Jackie Onassis walking around Greece off the yacht, and then you guys like, you know, Randy Quaid in, you know, Vacation, just like, wait for me. You're like, I'm gonna get them Duke boys. Wow. Uh, I wish I could have— again, I would just want to shoot that. We just want to see the B-roll of you guys walking around having a killer time. Unbelievable. Well, I, uh, this has been a huge shot in the arm. I didn't even need a shot in the arm today, but I was— we're— I do this sometimes. I'll be driving in and I think, hey, I get to see Danny McBride today, and I love his book, and So happy for him. And I just love talking to you and getting any time to hang with you. And I will take you up on your promise to just the three of us, you, me, Sturgill Simpson.

I'll coordinate it.

I'll pay for the meal. You guys pick the Outback Steakhouse.

I'd love that.

And we'll go there. And if Goggin wants to drop by at some point, we'll bring him too.

That'll—

he might— we might have to change what we're wearing if he comes.

We're gonna have to up our game, you know. Well, Danny, thank you, uh, for dropping in, and congrats on the book. I love it. Thrilling Tales of Modern Men.

Awesome. Thank you.

This won't air.

Great, that's fine.

Here we are. We're talking about Blay's tax saga. This is part 4 in maybe an ongoing series, and hopefully it doesn't— hopefully it ends well.

Blay, along with his mother, are part of a criminal gang where Blay was able to write off his various nerd collections of swords, lightsabers, Darth Vader helmets, whatever you— whatever else he can think of, uh, he was writing them off because he was bringing them up on the podcast. And if the Internal Revenue Service is listening, and I think they should be, um, I think he should be investigated. And now, you were a stranger to all of this, Matt.

I added—

because you were out on a, I think, a 9-month paternity leave, which is fine.

Well, we began with conception.

Yeah.

And then ended with delivery.

Ended with her, uh, starting at a very good college in the Northeast. Yeah. But now you— so you have a fresh approach to all this. We haven't heard your opinion. So you speak. You listened to what Blay was up to, and what'd you think?

Well, God, you know I love you, Blay.

Oh no.

And this only comes out of concern.

Oh boy.

You know it's not going to be good when you hear that stuff.

Jesus.

I'm just concerned that you're doing things backwards. That, you know what I mean? That you're coming on and saying that I should should, after you've purchased these, like, oh, I'm gonna mention them now, as opposed to having an actual solid reason for bringing them on the show, which I think would justify a write-off.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Well, how can I bring them up if I don't already own them?

Well, I think they have to be organically—

this was organic. He talked about the pens.

No one needed to mention— he doesn't need to mention the brand.

Why'd you say— is it called— what's it called again? No, it's called—

it's called the—

it's called the Kindle Scribe. Yeah, uh, by Amazon.

Okay. Oh boy.

I find it suspicious when you give lots of labels. You give a lot of, this is how, what, what is, what it's called, this is where it's available, I think it's a really reasonable price, get yours now, um, uh, click to proceed to cart. Uh, you said what kind of pen you had. You said it's an Aurora pen and it's really nice. That you didn't you say the kind of pen? I did say that, but I think he's writing it off. How is that different? I don't— maybe you want an Aurora pen. It's a gift. No, I'm not just writing it off, but I think the difference is if I was just saying like, oh, I was taking out the trash last night.

Hefty trash bags. Uh, and they are good trash bags.

Okay.

The first—

let's play. You know the difference. Play. Oder killing. Play.

Play.

You know the difference, which is I just said this is a nice pen. It's an Aurora. I'm not expecting anything from Aurora. Were they to give me something, which would be very nice if I got a free pen from Aurora, I would accept it, but I would never mention it on air. No, I know. Although I might, I probably would, Aurora. But anyway, that's not what I would— very good pens. It's just a pen that I use and it's a pen that I have right now on camera.

Even though you can't write with it in normally. Uh, well, you have to write on an angle. No offense, Aurora, but what the fuck?

Also, it's squirting everywhere.

You're right, throw that thing into a hefty trash bag.

Squirting all over the place.

When I watched how you tried to write with this, I was appalled. Because listen, you're, uh, you just came right down straight. It was a 90-degree angle. Uh, it was completely perpendicular. Uh, and I felt— I was like, oh my God, goodness. And 11-year-old me was appalled.

Oh no.

Yeah, that is not how one holds a pen and pen.

The one with the— the one who wants the stamp, that, that 11-year-old version of you.

All I wanted was a void stamp.

Oh, I really wish I could, you know, impress that 11-year-old version of you.

Will you go out with me, stamp-loving kid?

Hey, you like stamps?

A rubber stamp. It's really fun, and you get to, like, with real authority say, "Void!" Uh, oh no. Remit. I wanted a remit stamp. Um, Sona.

What? What? Me? No, Bley, remember?

You just—

I get it, I get it.

Oh yeah, Roars are great.

No, I just want to give you— Yeah, uh, quick. All I want to do is a quick shut up, and then onward to Bley.

Bley, I just don't want to see anything something happen to you. That's all I can—

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

I, I do want to see something happen to you. I would be delighted if you and your mother, who does your taxes for reasons that still escape me, even though she's not a tax person, she gets you on the phone and then she calls—

what is it?

She's good at TurboTax.

She calls TurboTax and, you know, calls TurboTax. I'm doing your part for you.

TurboTax.

Who calls TurboTax? I did that for you as a gift to you. Thank you very much.

Anyway, Wait, who calls TurboTax?

I'm just showing you that I can do your role on this podcast too. But if you know, you say it correctly. Hubba bubba bubba. Hubba bubba bubba. I won that argument with my hubba bubba bubba.

You're writing it correctly. Is it an English word?

Wait, you mentioned all the products. Buy Amazon, readily available. I think it's a good price. I know what you're up to. I see what you're doing. And you leaned in and you also still do the thing we've talked to you about, which is you put your mouth over the mic like you're eating a giant kielbasa and you shout into it.

You need to grab it. He's grabbing it too. He grabs it.

What are you grabbing about? What are you grabbing?

Because Eduardo and I share it.

No one likes you. We share a mic. Separating. Eduardo is not having this. No, I was just saying we share a mic, so I, I need to grab the mic to pull it over to me. And why are you yelling? I don't know. I'm trying to take, can I just, in defense, the reason why I say what it is is not to write things off. I'm not gonna write this off. It's in case people are like, oh, that's pretty cool. Where can I get that? That's pretty, I like that. I like that product. I would like to buy it also. Uh-oh. So that's where your role here is on the, on the podcast is to direct people towards items that are in your life that they might also want.

You need an affiliate link where you get a percentage.

You know what? We could have an affiliate link for the podcast to make a little extra dough on this. You know, can I say something? I like paper. Yes. And I like the idea that, and, and I'm never gonna be someone that wants to doodle and then press a button and it goes into the cloud.

Okay.

Because guess what? You think you're saving paper. But now server farms have to handle my doodles? And we're burning valuable energy. We're burning fossil fuels. Yes. So that somewhere a server farm can hang on to my little guy that's going, "Bibble babble dibble." But you could lose your doodles.

And this is—

my notes are being saved forever. Yeah, that's important. And you know what? It's important that your thoughts are saved, Blay, for all of time. Well, I've never said anything that's more ridiculous. We're going to end there. But Blay, I've got my eye on you. I think you're up to no good. And if the IRS is listening, his name is Aaron and Blair.

That's the thing though, is the IRS has been gutted, so you're probably—

oh, we can all just—

and you know what, the worst criminals like Blair are going to get away with murder.

Yeah, it's like tax Fury Road right now.

Just go for it. Go for it. Well, if that's the message of our podcast today, it's if you're thinking of cheating on your taxes, just go for it. Do it.

Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Sethian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leão. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Erin Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production Production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get 3 free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com/Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.