Transcript of Wahoo's Founder on AI, Failure, and 38 Years of Grind | Coffeez Ep. 307

One, two! Hi, how are you?

Good, good, good.

I'm Meredith. Welcome to Coffee with Joe Chalabi.

So you're gonna be my coffee?

I'm your coffee girl.

Yeah, well, I like a little almond latte, ice.

Ice?

Yes, perfect.

This is the best place. You get coffee.

We also get chocolate.

Oh my goodness.

Everyone gets chocolate.

Cheers.

Cheers.

Here, I have a chip.

Yes.

Thank you.

So Wing, I have a question. Yes. How many times have people asked you, why did you open a taco place instead of a wing place?

You know, that's a great question. It's just that I like tacos way more than I like wings.

I agree.

Well, good to have you. Thank you.

Awesome. I'll show you to Joe.

All right.

Hey, hey, hey, what's up? Welcome back.

I love it, I love it. I got my coffee right here.

All right.

All right.

All right, perfect.

Boom. Cheers, my friend.

Cheers.

It's been a couple years since we've had you on the show. Has anything changed with your morning routine since I asked you last?

Surfing more, swimming more, because I'm getting ready for a big event this year.

What are you swimming for?

Well, I got to get in shape. You're already in shape.

I'm in pretty good shape, but you got to be in swimming shape is different, right? Surfing, yes, but there is an annual event that happens every September. It's the Ben Carlson, oh, paddle from Catalina to Newport. It's a 30-mile— so just think of it, yeah, on your surfboard, on a paddleboard. So my thing is I'll be the oldest guy to paddle the event this year.

Wow.

So paddle out, you're doing the paddle out?

Yeah, so 30 miles, so it's about 7 hours give or take. So it's a marathon on the water.

That's incredible. When is that?

It'll be September 19th.

That'd be a cool event to do.

So if you're in shape, come on in. You can join me and we'll tag— we gotta practice though.

Yeah, how often do you practice?

I swim about 4 to 5 days a week right now. I'm so—

I'm there.

I'm in pretty good shape right now.

Swim shape and paddleboard shape are different.

It's not. As long as your shoulders are juiced up and ready and greased up, you can do it. Yeah, but yeah, you got to get on your paddle, but more important, you got to keep those shoulders moving.

Yeah, exactly. You know, Wing, it's been such a pleasure. Last time we got to connect, uh, we've been obviously at some events together. We got to do, uh, the California Love Drop, which was a huge blessing. I'd like to participate in, of course, in an event like that again. California Love Drop is a—

yeah.

And, and something I really admire about you is your heart is just a heart of gold. Your heart is always in the right place. You always want to serve You always want to do God's work and just be a light to people, and you have been a light, and it shows in what you've done and what you've built and the Wahoo's organization.

Yeah, no, it's been great. Like I said, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have done well, and my job is to go out and spread the love and share with the guys that don't have quite as good as we do.

That's right. Yeah. Now, uh, what's new with, uh, with Wahoo's? Have you expanded more stores? I'm seeing more in like, uh, airports.

Yeah, so actually the airport's been a little delayed. It was supposed to have been open by May of this this year. So we're about 4 months behind. So it's now a little construction delay, will be ready to open in October. So we're super excited to be at the Orange County Airport.

Nice. Been seeing that sign for a while.

And in the meantime, Austin, Texas has done really well. We came back about a year and a half ago in Lakeway, which is what we call it the Newport Beach of, you know, Austin, Texas. And now we're going ready to go into downtown. So, uh, it should be just as we speak, it should be getting ready to open right now.

You know, Wayne Wing, at your age, you're still just in ultra grind mode. You're, you know, something young, 50-something young.

Yeah, 50-something young, yes.

And you just have this perpetual drive to always just get better and continue to dominate in your field in an ultra competitive business. What is it that really drives that motivation for you?

You know, it's when people come to you, even when I'm in a competitor's restaurant, somebody will come up and say, "My God, I love Waldo's." And I'm like, "We're at a pizza place, so let's maybe enjoy the pizza while we're here." But I mean, it's nice, right? So the people that, you know, basically can tell me stories about them eating, their kids, their grandparents, so both generations. So it's a multi-generation thing for me. So the fact that I've been at it for 38 years and people still relatively speaking, never come up to me and says, man, you suck, you know. So that day I'm hoping never happens, right? So that's what keeps me motivated, because I want to make sure I'm on top of everything, everybody's following the recipes and putting out the best product we can.

Now I brought you here because there's something that's really nostalgic to me. I'm going to tell you the story. When I was 14 years old, my first job ever was selling ice cream. At Thrifty's. And, you know, at 14 or no, you were allowed to work actually at 14 years old.

At 14, you can.

Back in my day, you can't do that anymore. Some bunch of laws.

16 now.

But whatever. But, you know, one of the things I like to do a lot when I was giving out, when I was scooping ice cream, I would hook up everybody. Everybody would get an extra free scoop.

Yeah.

So that ended up getting me fired. But it was a— it was a cool learning lesson. You know, it was a cool learning lesson. And that nostalgia of Thrifty's ice cream and the joy that it brought to me and always getting free ice cream and giving people free ice cream and the joy I brought to people. But now Thrifty's, as you know, it's gone. And I heard through the grapevine that, you know, my boy might be buying it.

Well, so here's what happened. So I got a call. I mean, first I saw that somebody bought it, right? And I heard rumors that, you know, Monster Energy Drink bought it, right? So I'm friends with Hilton and Rodney, the basically the majority owners of the company. And we've been friends for a long time. So we were chit-chatting And they're kind of going, yeah, but we're not going to talk about it anymore. I'm like, okay, whatever, right? So I kept asking the guys at Monster, when we're going to get ice cream? Because I saw a freezer in their warehouse, Thrifty's ice cream freezer, but there was nothing in it. So a month or two go by.

And so after about 3 or 4 months, I'm like, I forgot about it.

Then I get a phone call from Hilton. He goes, hey, my son-in-law Donnie is running the company. I'm like, okay, so the rumor is true. You guys bought it out of bankruptcy, blah, blah, blah. But The stores, the actually pharmacies basically are still shut down, but the ice cream factory never stopped making ice cream. So it's the same place since the '70s in El Monte. And he goes, Wayne, we need to basically do what we used to do together with Monster. 'Cause I am the original retailer for Monster in the world. We did all the events with them and we still do quite a bit. They says, can we do that with ice cream? I'm like, oh my God, it'd be totally fun. So we did an event with Vans, a video premiere for Steve Caballero last fall, and people were coming in to get their burritos and tacos. And at the end of the line, there's Thrifty's ice cream. And people are like, oh my God. And everybody has a story, not quite as good as yours, giving away, but everything starts with it. I remember buying it for a nickel, a scoop, or 10 cents, 25 cents, whatever the price was.

But everybody has that nostalgic memory of it.

It was always an affordable treat.

It's an affordable treat. That's the key.

And you kept it affordable.

Yes. So for me, it's like, well, can we start doing events? So we started taking it to our events. And, you know, because after you eat something spicy, there's nothing like eating something icy, you know, sweet, and, you know, whatever.

Delicious.

And it was amazing. So we've done multiple events. As we're speaking right now, we're getting ready to bring them to the Summer X Games, you know, again, in Sacramento next week where people are going to be, you know, again, eating our tacos and then maybe have some ice cream afterwards. And again, it's just one of those combinations, right, that you need something sweet after you eat something spicy, right? And it is amazing. And here's the things that I learned because I always thought, and I don't know if when you were working, there's probably about maybe a dozen flavors.

Yeah.

How many flavors do you think there are?

I don't know. Now with Baskin-Robbins, you know, 31 flavors, I'm sure there's 100 flavors.

There's 90 flavors, which I've never seen any of them until we did an event, the Strawberry Festival, a couple of weeks ago. And I thought, okay, there's going to bring— I said, just bring strawberry ice cream because it's the Strawberry Festival at Garden Grove. And there's 5 flavors. I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, there's strawberry cheesecake, there's strawberry banana, And I'm like, there's strawberry chocolate chip. And I'm like, what is all this? He goes, well, because we have a lot more that you don't know because it's sold to restaurants. So you never see it unless you see the, you know, the mint chocolate chip, the chocolate, whatever. There's basically the core, like, dozen flavors. And then there's all these other ones that you never see. And here I am going, oh my God. So now getting the opportunity to go and tour the plant, which we got to go sometime. Cause if you work there, I'm telling you the nostalgia associated with Thrifty's.

I mean, I'm all in. I'm at, I'm actually wondering if they're taking extra investors. I mean, what's the story with Thrifty's? You know, I'd be a big advocate and a big partner, you know, strictly.

Let me ask those guys because as far as I know, they bought it straight up. There's no financing involved. They bought it for cash. But the coolest thing is when you're eating ice cream straight out of the assembly line, it's more like custard than ice cream. Because it hasn't frozen yet, and it's like somewhere between custard and soft syrup, and it is delicious.

You know, now everything's like gelato, and it's like $9 a little tiny scoop, and I'm like, gosh, you know, as thrifties were pennies, you know, and they were— they brought the same joy.

Yes.

You know, and actually it was more joy because I would have to walk up a hill and down a hill to get to the thrifties, you know, and it was like laborious to get that ice cream. You know, now they're getting driven to get their gelato. Like, come on, no struggle.

And like you said, a family of 4, you know, relatively speaking, is almost the same price as 1 person at a gelato place. 4 people can have ice cream at Thrifty's.

Oh, a family of 4 back in my day would be $2.

Exactly.

1 little tiny scoop of gelato was $7. So actually it's a family of 16 that can have—

and it's really good ice cream.

It's great ice cream.

Yeah.

But the one that got me off, because we were talking about your favorite flavors, Right, and we'll get to your favorite. But I didn't realize that when you go to an Asian restaurant in California and you get a scoop of green tea ice cream at the end, it's Thrifty's. I had no idea they made that.

They're like the Niagara Waters ice cream, pretty much.

They make all the stuff and nobody knows. So when you're getting a pie à la mode, 90% of the time that vanilla will be from them.

Yeah, well, that's good to know. And now we know everything's Thrifty's ice cream.

Yeah.

So what is happening with Thrifty's? What is your involvement?

We're going to try to help them expand into the stadiums and to the events and more important, bring them into our store. So right now we're in the middle of, you know, finding space. It looks like two of our locations. We're going to test it out because we're going to see, because labor is a big issue for everybody in the restaurant industry. So if we can have a little ding by the ice cream counter so nobody has to be there full time. But as soon as you hear that ding, that means somebody wants a scoop, just like Thrifty's.

Yeah.

So if we're going to use that model, I think it'll work.

Now, last time we spoke, we mentioned labor on our podcast and how expensive labor was— has gotten for you, especially post-COVID.

Yep.

Now, with obviously AI emerging, um, have you implemented AI strategies to really bring down your labor costs?

We haven't yet. We've been talking about it to where a— we would humanize the experience by using like a tablet or a kiosk or something like that.

Still haven't implemented those?

We haven't because we haven't found the the right software to use it. We know it exists, but again, it's not exactly inexpensive to do this. Yeah, but the idea that, you know, quote unquote, like if somebody came to your business and instead of talking to a machine, you would pop up in an AI, you know, augmented reality format, and you would welcome, hey, good to see you again, can I help you with whatever, right? So that's the idea. So we know the technology exists.

Oh, that's out right now? I haven't seen that. I just see kiosks and you can just like—

it exists, but again, it's the expense. So if somebody would, you know, spend a little bit more— imagine you swiping your credit card down and my 3D image augmented reality pops out of this thing. Hey Joe, great to see you again.

But it's the old adage, which is not that old, but it's— you can call it an old adage because it'll be new now. Uh, it's new now but it'll be old shortly. It's AI is costing more than human labor right now.

Yes.

I mean, that's a reality that we're facing.

Oh, it's crazy how expensive. And people don't know. And all these guys at the end of the month when they get their bills, they're like, oh my God.

Yeah, I could have hired 20 people for this.

Exactly.

And I spent $80 grand to replace one person.

Because they don't realize that every time you ask a question, the clock's ticking.

Yeah. And the thing is, you're making an investment into AI. How much of a strategic investment is Wahoo's putting into AI right now in their current ecosystem?

In the current ecosystem, we're using it more for PR because we can create videos, which we already did. And again, testing it out through my friend Josh, we were able to use two versions of it. One, you know, me and you in real person, and then one creating through AI. And it turns out that, you know, the AI version, people think it's funnier. It's cute because people love cartoons, right? So when you have something that's more user-friendly, people like to share because they think it's cute. Oh, there's an AI version of Wing, a cartoon, right? People love it. So we tested it out with a couple of events recently, and the traffic that we generated through the promotion was way more than we anticipated. So in a typical, I call it direct mail piece, at 1 or 2%, we ended up getting close to 10%. Wow. Which is again, relatively speaking.

So that's the only aspect you're using it right now?

Right now, because it's again, relatively inexpensive to do it, right? Because the same to create a video than it is to create an iVideo.

Yeah.

So again, not a lot of money yet, but the results seem to be better.

Now, do you think it'll drive down the cost of like food or labor or the real hard expenses, rents? I mean, any, anything where it really helped where the significant bottom line numbers? Or is it just helping with marketing?

I think right now marketing is the first thing that we're testing. The next thing would be, like I said, in-store. Instead of having, let's say, 3 or 4 cashiers, if you can get one of them down, and as long as the AI proposition replacing that one person is cost-effective, right? So that's where we're at in that moment right now is deciding where is that, you know, break-even, right? And everybody's trying it. And when you hear my friends that have other operations, right, other fast food concepts saying that whenever they get somebody that's over 60, you know, in their store and they look like a deer in the headlights going, ah, because they don't know how to order and there's nobody human to help them. So unless a young person behind them goes, hey, excuse me, let me show you how to, you know, run through the menu. So sometimes the technology is ahead of the population, right? So we just got to, again, find that sweet spot where everything meets.

Well, I think where the solution is having that augmented AI human Yep. To really help them walk through, or I just take their order.

Yeah, just take your order for now. But again, so the idea that you can have 100% one or the other doesn't work. A combination is where we're going to end up at. But finding the sweet spot of the number of employees to the number of kiosks is where— because remember, those kiosks aren't cheap and they have a tendency to go down and they have a tendency to break down.

So who's your tech guy on staff to fix that? Yeah, so that's again, who's gonna be a six-figure earner?

There you go. Yeah, so there's always that quarter million dollars for your tech guy to fix the kiosk. Breaks.

Exactly.

So there you go. And again, who told me this was a good idea?

Joe, you said AI was going to mitigate my costs.

Exactly.

But even in your industry, right, at the end of the day, we're actually using it for, for, for marketing primarily.

Yeah, it would be the, the biggest variable.

Yeah.

And then our investors are using it for like underwriting. We're using it for some of our systems.

Yeah.

You know, we're having various chatbots for customer service.

Yep.

So the customer service element, but you don't need a hotline for Wahoo.

No, no, no, not yet. Yeah, because the answers, you know, questions are relatively, hey, I got my chicken instead of beef, whatever.

Yeah, unless, yeah, yeah, actually you do need that for taking phone orders.

Yeah, we do.

And again, that's one of the, the things that people still like to either order online, which they don't need to talk to anybody, but they kind of like getting to know the person at the store, the managers and the cashiers, because it's, believe it or not, A lot of our regulars feel more comfortable knowing that the person at the other end knows exactly the way they like their food to be done. So AI can't really do that yet. Yeah. But once you're kind of in the system, it'll remember. So that's the good part about AI.

And there's empathetic AI where they will be able to develop like an emotional relevance and understanding of that one person. And then they'll be able to be like, hey John, how are your kids? I heard they had a baseball game the other day.

Yeah, you know, but again, it's, it's all coming, right? And it's a matter of factors again, but you, you want it to be more personal. Yeah, than just a robot.

You also have humanoid robots kind of coming into market. Yeah, any, any—

it's getting better.

Yeah, those guys are— those guys could be a good resource.

Yeah. So again, cost at the end of the day, like, oh my God, how much money to program that thing.

That's right. That's right. Now, what do you really find the most joy in right now? Is it building a Wahoo's? Is it coming up with a new concept, a new business? Is it, you know, California Love Drop, your philanthropy, philanthropy projects? What is the most joy for you out of all those things?

You know, it's a combination. You know, it's always fun right now. Like doing wedding rehearsals. How exciting is it for me to be in that league where, you know, in the old days it would be at a hotel, it'd be a full, you know, 5-star catering company. And somebody that grew up eating our food goes, hey, I would love it if you guys did that for me. And I'm like, okay, you want tacos for your rehearsal or this? So like, again, because it is a monumental, like a date, you know, like significant, you know, happening in your life. It's— this is not just a graduation party, it's a major milestone. So for us to be a part of that experience, that excites me. I mean, the other day we did a baby shower, right? And again, we're welcoming somebody to the new— our world. And for us to be a part of that, it's like, you know, and again, such a blessing. These are those moments where I'm like, we're doing baby showers, we're doing weddings, we're doing— so these things excite me from the food perspective, right? And the fact that next week we get to go to the Summer X Games and we'll doing food for all the athletes.

So again, they could have anything they want at that level, and I happen to be the number one choice to be the food for the athletes. So that—

you've always been the number one choice for the X Games.

So yeah, I mean, it's always been fun.

Yeah, you've always been— that would be cool if you were the number one choice for FIFA.

But right now I'm literally negotiating about possibly doing something at the US Open of Tennis.

That'd be cool, you know what I mean?

So these excite me, man, because again, the brands are like, why not bring something from California all the way to New York?

You know, nothing is cooler than, you know, surf culture. Yeah, right, surf beach culture in Newport, Southern California. And you have really embodied that surf beach vibe.

Yep.

And even down to what you're wearing right now, I mean, like, literally you're just as California— like, you rock that style and You know, when you think surf beach culture, you think Wahoos, you think Wing.

Yes.

You know, you got stickers made of your imagery. You know, it's pretty crazy.

No, it is really fun. And to branch out to like, we're doing a pickleball tournament this weekend.

So new sports, huge.

Yeah.

So all not very dangerous.

Exactly. And again, but it's the whole active lifestyle and people are, you know, fashionable in everything and partnering up with old and new brands like K-Swiss, Bill Clothing, all these new brands and old brands. They're like, hey, why not be a part of the whole experience?

Yeah.

So again, you keep hearing experiential marketing and all that. That's what people want. Well, I just want to be a part of that vibe and what's happening. And the same thing, Warped Tours came, came back last year. And so in July, we had the Warped Tour in Long Beach to be doing those events again that we used to do 30 years ago. I mean, how fun is that? And again, I don't know half of the punk bands that are playing there, but the fact that they want us to be there is exciting.

But they all know you.

They know us. Yes.

They all know you. So like right now, it's, you know, if you were to go back, if you were 25 years old, it's 2026 now. Knowing what you know about the restaurant business, what business would you start right now?

You know, what I do do now is things with your hands.

Okay, right?

I.e., if you're in Newport Beach and you can work on a Mercedes, a Porsche that's pre-computer chip, you name your price. Because guess what? You can't just plug in that computer into your current— it goes, what is that noise? You either know what that noise is or you don't.

Well, a 3D printer could kind of do— no, yeah.

So if you have an old car doesn't have a computer chip in it. Yeah, you have to know what that noise is, and only the guys that work on those cars— so to me, that guy is priceless because most people in Newport have an old Porsche or Mercedes or Bugatti, anything that's old that doesn't have a chip. A computer can't tell you how to— what's wrong with it. You got to know it. And once you have one of those guys, that is kind of like your surgeon. You don't want to lose them. You don't want to let anybody else work on your car because that's the only guy you can trust to fix your car because they know. And I— the reason I know that is if you have a Harley, you better have your Harley mechanic on speed dial if you have an old bike, because I used to have one of those and I had my guy on speed dial because anytime something went wrong, my guy could come over and 2 seconds, he knew exactly what was wrong with it. Because you have to look at it. You can't just— you hear it and you know what's wrong, but you can't just attach it to something.

Oh yeah, the cylinder or this. You have to know it.

So mechanics are priceless right now because, you know, that means their prices are going up.

Oh, they're going through the sky.

They said—

I—

some of the, some of the guys I've read interviews and I've seen interviews where they're like, yeah, plumbers are going to cost more.

Oh my God.

Yeah, they're going to cost a fortune soon.

Plumbers, electrician.

Yeah.

The trade that we used to make fun of, the blue collars, right? Well, guess what? If you want your tree cut down, you just can't call the internet because, hey, somebody physically has to come and cut it down. Somebody has to lay the cement. Somebody's got to put your pool in, your tennis court. So I— my buddy of mine that builds all the tennis courts, he makes a fortune because people— I'm the best guy. And if you want a basketball, a pickleball, a tennis court in your backyard, You're gonna have to call me and you're gonna have to pay whatever I charge you, pretty much. Yeah. So that's— so I would say the trade, you can't order on the internet. AI is not going to build it for you. You, you need a physical person there.

What happens when the humanoid robots take that job?

Uh, it'd be interesting to see if, again, they can anticipate, because there are certain things that they can't. They're going to learn, but at a certain point, again, they could be like—

we, we see the threat of of that happening, like plumbers, electricians, AC guys, all those guys. But, you know, I know that the humanoids are trying to figure that out too.

Everybody is. But at the end of the day, if you can teach the robot to do it, you're still going to have a job. Yeah, because the robot can only learn from somebody that's already done it.

Okay, right.

They, they don't know what they don't know until you teach it, right?

So it's great. The trades are right now going to be a hot commodity until humanoids take that over.

Yeah.

But again, which is coming after AI.

Yes.

And then what else? Oh, the car thing too.

That's true, cars, you know. So anything that we can build— food is not that far behind, right? Because you can teach, you know, a robot how to cook. But at the end of the day, who comes up with the recipe and the whole thing? Humans still have to anticipate, right? But again, if you can tell a robot what to do, it can do it. But it takes commands. It doesn't have creativity. And this is where we still have an advantage, the creative part.

Yeah, it's crazy because you started in this industry way before AI or robots. Like, you were like before the Jetsons were even talking about it. Exactly.

Yeah, but I've seen it. I mean, I went to an event where they had like a wok and it looked like a cement mixer, but like smaller, right? But just think of a thing that just swirls food. So you threw the ingredients in and you threw the sauces in and literally tossed the food around. The problem with that is if you don't throw the ingredients in the right order, right? So it does take a human to understand, and this is the recipe, right? Because you got to throw the protein before the vegetables. So there is a sequence into how the items get in and how the sauces get in. So one little screw-up and the food doesn't taste that good, right?

Now let me ask you, um, What is like one opportunity that everyone should be in right now?

I think right now it's so much easier to launch a product on social media, right? You got an idea, it doesn't take a lot of money to test out your idea, right? So whatever that may be, whether it's a physical item, a service, whatever it is, throw it out on the internet. But I'm watching shows with little kids doing all kinds of amazing things. Whether it's in a farm scenario, whether they're cooking something, or they're showing how to build a toy. Remember all these things? So kids are able to make a lot of money at a relatively young age by just being able to share their ideas, right? So I think the internet opens a lot of doors for a lot of different people. So you don't have to have a college degree, you don't have to have a storefront. So a lot of less overhead to launch a new business. And if it gets some traction, then you could choose to go to a brick-and-mortar, or you can just use to expand our online presence. So I see a lot of people doing things online that I don't think it would ever work in, in the old, you know, brick-and-mortar world, right?

So whatever that may be. So I see a lot of new companies and how fast they're taking off because you don't have to go across the country and across the world to look for retailers to sell your idea. You can just do it yourself, right? So whether it's a service or a product, doing it online is way, way faster and a lot less risky and expensive.

I mean, the amount you can scale from your— the comfort of your own home with no inventory. Now, it would— like dropshipping, you don't have to buy anything. You're just like, I'll just use this guy, I'll drop ship and just use my address and, yeah, you know, creatively market it. Crazy, the world of industries and the amount of money that's being generated as a result now. Yeah, that's what's causing, I think, a big uproot in inflation just because money is so easy to make now.

Oh, it is. Yeah. So there's a lot of great ideas out there. So you can spend a couple of days instead of 2 to 3 years to find out it didn't work.

Right.

So it's much faster to success, much quicker to failure as well.

Now, we've seen like costs really kind of go up as a result. We've seen inflation. Last time you and I talked, we were in a different economic environment.

Way different. Yeah.

So how much has inflation hit your, your menu?

It has caused the issue for us is people that are on a fixed income, right? I'm pretty sure that from 2 years ago to today, if you just did your normal cost of living, right, let's just use a good number, 10%, right, which is probably way higher than most, right? So if you were making $30,000 whatever, you could assume you're making what, $36,000 today? Okay, but the problem with that is gas prices recently went up 50%. Yeah, so all of a sudden you still have to get to work. So where do I cut?

So the obvious is things that I don't really need, like I'll just starve myself, I don't need Wahoos, or I can brown bag it, right?

So these are the things. So everybody in my category saw a little, you know, 10 to 20% decrease in traffic because the fact that people still need to get to work, but they're gonna opt out to, you know, brown bag it instead of going out to eat for lunch. Or you might wait an extra 2 to 4 weeks to get your hair cut. You might wait 2 to 3 more weeks to get your nails done. So everything that you would count on a monthly or 6 weeks, whatever, everything got pushed out.

Well, Supercuts rolled out a monthly membership. I mean, I'm on a monthly membership for my car wash. I'm a monthly member for Supercuts.

Exactly. So the people that figured out the subscription models, right, where they can still make money, they can count on that, right?

Yeah.

Because you don't feel guilty because you already paid for it.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But it's already fixed into my budget.

Yeah, it's already in.

I'm not like I need a budget, but I still live like I'm on a budget.

No, but you know, but the idea is the people that say, well, this is not in my budget anymore. So what is that?

Is it a haircut?

Is it, you know, think of all the things. Because I can tell you, the women on the clock, they're still going to get their Botox, they're still going to get the things that they want and they feel they need, right? But so there's the need and the want. So do I need it or do I want it, right? So that's where the people on fixed income—

Meredith, what do you have to cut off?

I would like to say I went to trade school for cosmetology, and one thing we learned is women will always pay for their beauty. Like he said, like, they always get their hair done, they always get their nails done. Like, AI is never taking that job.

Very good.

And then did infla— did inflation hit your, your, uh, lifestyle at all?

Um, I get tipped more because my checks are higher.

That's—

it works for me. But I also don't eat at the restaurants I work at, so—

yeah. And you could— they probably give you free food, but you're like, I ain't eating this stuff.

Yeah.

No, I always take the free food. It's like I don't have to go grocery shopping because I work in restaurants, you know.

Good move, good move.

Yeah, so there's certain things, like I said, certain trades got affected, some didn't, right?

So it all depends where you are in the spectrum of service.

Now, do you think that AI is going to be used as a tool in restaurant— as a restaurateur, or do you think it's going to be, uh, an opportunity in the business, or do you think it's going to be more of a threat to the business?

It depends on how you see it, right? Because everything that changes Change is always like a threat because am I going to lose my job? Is it going to replace somebody, right? But you got to welcome changes. And how do you embrace it? By seeing how it can help your business. So at the end of the day, I don't have the exact answer because a lot of people are threatened, especially the hourly employees, right? But they got to remember that there is still the need for the human interaction. That's what this is called hospitality. AI can't do that for you. It can. You can teach it to say hello to your customers. But there's a difference between saying hello and that smile on a really, you know, like welcoming somebody back. So I'm pretty sure none of us humans are going to become friends with an AI person. But we're always going to be friends with our favorite hair salon, our favorite bartender, our favorite waiter, our favorite host. Because that smiley, that face, that interaction, the human connection is what we want when we go out. So we go out to places, jokingly, where everybody knows our name, right?

It's true.

We want to feel welcome. We want to basically go to a friend's house. So you end up frequenting restaurants, businesses that people know you, and they know what you like, they know what you don't like, but more important, they treat you like a friend.

I have two things to mention on that. Like, Gen Z or Gen Alpha, these new generations who are not so assimilated to this vibe, right? Like, we— me and you want to go to our friend's house.

Yes, yes.

Me and you want to go feel like we're welcome at home. But Gen Alpha just wants to go to a place and play video games with their friends on Roblox virtually.

Yes.

So they have a virtual or a parasocial relationship with MrBeast. They don't know MrBeast, but they're like, they know through content, right? They love it. So like the parasocial element and the virtual realities that these kids live in, you say that and it's true, but is it true for the next generation? And how are you like, how do we combat that in the restaurant world? It's like they just, they're gonna order Wahoos through Uber Eats. There's no parasocial relation. There's no relationship there. They don't know you. They don't need a smile from you. They just carry on.

I agree with you. They're so, they hate talking to people.

Yeah.

They hate interacting with humans. They're much more comfortable yelling and friendly, whatever, interacting with their phone or computer, whatever that may be, right? Kiosk. And you're 100% right. But at the end of the day, right, they're going to end up having to go to work in a real scenario. So once they kind of get out of their years of just, you know, hiding behind the curtain, right, they're going to realize that they're going to work for humans. As far as I know, your boss is still going to be a human being for now.

Unless they get a job in like a virtual metaverse.

Yeah, but yeah. So in that case, right, they're going to go, why do we need you? Right?

Because we're in the metaverse. So everything's going to be machines. So at a certain point, you're going to have to learn those soft skill sets. Yeah. And that's the one thing this generation doesn't have. They don't know how to deal with conflict. Because as soon as somebody yells at them, they're like, oh my God, I got to get out of here, you know, because they don't know what to do. Because computers, phones, they don't talk back to you. They don't yell at you.

Yeah, right. Humans do. Yeah.

So as soon as they figured out that the majority of people that control this world still is older than them, they better learn those soft skills, the interaction with humans. And that's when they're going to realize, oh my God, I should have been doing that a long time ago. Instead of hiding behind my phone.

So I have a question as a father. We got a kid the same age, older kids, and you still have young ones like me. How are you teaching those soft skills to your kids who are actively on Roblox talking to their friends, which you're yelling to someone who's never going to yell back?

It's like I said, it's very hard because they don't understand, you know, because they're like, well, why do I, why do I have to listen to this person? Why do I? Because In our days, it was expected that your coach would literally undress you, chew you up and down. Yeah. You do that today to a 10-year-old. Oh my God.

That coach is never going to— he'll be imprisoned.

Exactly.

You can't, you know, whatever you're, you know, whatever doing to your— our kid.

But my generation goes, that's how we talk to the kids. You got to toughen them up.

I got a football coach for my 6-year-old. I found him by the grace of God. Like, And he just, he treats, it's like old school football coach.

Exactly.

Like makes them run lines. Exactly. He calls them, they run ladders. They, you know, he yells at them. I'm like, thank you.

Where's this guy?

He's like a saint.

Exactly.

I'm like, this is what the kids need. First coach I ever had. And when I found him, like, you know, I literally, it was politics to keep my kid on the team. Like, oh, you know, he has a division of my company. Like he's not gonna cut my kid.

Exactly.

Like I gotta keep my kid. Under that rule. Yes. Right. Because it's, it's even the coaches are soft now.

Yeah, they're super soft because again, there's always one parent there that maybe didn't play sports. They didn't realize that that's what happens in the practice field.

Yeah.

It's toughen them up. And I literally across the board, you even touch a kid and oh my God, that's grounds to get fired. I'm like, you got to be kidding me.

Yeah.

You know, we used to get literally picked up by your neck and go, do you understand what we're trying to win here? Right.

Yeah.

And we're like, okay, coach, we got it.

We got it. Now it's a pansy generation.

Yes, yes, yes. So they need a little toughened up, you know, a little reality, right? Because we're— nobody's there trying to hurt you. They're just trying to make sure you understand that we're here to win a game, not just have fun, you know.

I, I do suffer with this a lot. I— and, you know, I even have this conversation with my kids even today. I was like, you know, how many push-ups does your coach make you do in, in Muay Thai yesterday? And this is my 6 and 4-year-old. Which I'm, you know, that's why I have Muay Thai today after the basketball camp. Like, you're gonna go there and they don't play around. Like, you're gonna mess around, they're gonna make you do push-ups. You know, you keep doing push-ups, then kick you out of the class. Like, that sort of, uh, strict culture in sports is non-existent. So when I find something that exists like that, which I'm going to recommend to you, it's right by our house, both our houses, uh, Giga Kick Muay Thai for the kid, the 10-year-old, uh, you know, they're, they're they're serious, you know. They're like, you mess around, you're gonna get kicked out. You mess around, you can do push-ups. Like, that's right, we don't care, you know. No, no, no, I'll kick you in the stomach. Like, yeah, they'll do it. Like, thank God. Do it.

Beat them up.

Beat them up. It's okay to get hit. But I— again, it's like the coaching, the softness, and again, the whole giving everybody a ribbon for just showing up. I'm like, oh my God, you're not teaching them reality, you know.

Yeah, participation trophies are the biggest joke ever.

Absolutely.

We're still the only country that I think that does it. And I'm like, come on. And I think the old— like, if you play soccer in other countries, not in America, most of it is done in the streets, right? In the dirt, whatever, because it's just a ball in a net. There's really no marking, like, here's the out-of-bounds, whatever. There's not like beautiful grass fields like we have here, you know. In most countries, there is no such thing because nobody can afford it. You know, so you basically learn, and it's survival, the playground rules. It's the survival gets to stay on, right? So we need a little bit more of that instead of like, hey, everybody can play. Nah, maybe you should be doing something else if you can't play, right? So I'm all for, yes, we want participation, but at a certain level, you can't have participation in winning. They don't exactly live next to each other, right? Yeah, winning is winning, and the best players have to play. Right. But at a certain time, because maybe this isn't the sport for you, right? But you got to figure that out. I mean, I can't get out there.

So I, you know, I don't want to yell at the coaches. I don't want to yell at the kids, you know, but at the same time, I'm like, God, I mean, something's got to give.

Something's definitely got to give. Yeah. And I think, you know, we are slowly learning and being able to implement these, like me as a father, like trying to bring old school back to new school. Yeah. Now let me ask you, this is, you know, if, if Wahoo's were to launch today.

Oh my God.

Okay. And you had zero locations.

Yeah.

Do you think social media alone could build your brand?

I believe it, depending on who I'm targeting. Right. But social media is the most cost-effective word of mouth out there because it doesn't cost you much. Right. So if you can get the right people on social media to talk about you, and it doesn't cost money, right? So it amplifies. So instead of having one person tell 3 people to tell 3 people, whatever, one person could tell 1,000. So it's a much faster way to amplify, but it's also much faster to die.

Yeah, so we have that, that donut shop on the beach in Newport that went viral, you know, the one right on the boardwalk.

Yep.

And it's got a line every day, every day wrapped around the building, and It's literally just general donuts, but it doesn't matter. But it doesn't matter. It went viral on TikTok. Yeah, it went viral. And everybody from every, every college student from everywhere drives like 50 miles to get this ham and cheese donut that's thrown in the microwave.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's not even like toasted. It's like, doesn't matter. Totally gross.

Yeah.

But people love it because they saw it and they're like, okay, you know, they're going to try it.

We got to get Wahoos to go viral like that. So there's like viral virality makes business. Is pop.

Yeah, and we are basically in the middle of all that right now. We got some great guys, you know, my buddy Josh. Yeah, influencers that we're going to team up with and create some great content because the magazine days are basically done. Uh, TV and radio is mostly for the old generation as well, traditional we call it. So social is the only way to capture the younger generation.

Yeah, and I feel like if you were to bring back the old guerrilla marketing.

Yes.

That you did that put Wahoos on the map, the stickers and all that. There's still a place for that outside of getting fined by the city, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, there's still, there's still, you know, that branding was legit and it worked.

And most recently, uh, last summer, a buddy of mine was going on the Good Morning America show in New York City, and he basically said, you got to give me a sticker. And I'm like, why? So I got him a sticker. And the next thing I know, he sends me the video. He was the DJ for Sublime, and there he is on Good Morning national TV, and there's the Wahoo sticker on the board. And I'm like, holy moly, that's what he wanted the sticker for. So now it resides on his DJ board and it's seen all over the world. And he always sends me pictures. He just played Petco Park in front of 50,000 people, and there's our little sticker right there on the board.

Yeah, I mean, that's an iconic sticker.

So everything helps. Again, no right or wrong. And as long as people see the image and they basically say, I like Sublime, therefore maybe I'll like Wahoo, right? So it's always the affiliation.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, for me, and the way I track, uh, our marketing is I don't look at like conversions like nobody— everybody else. I just look at eyeballs. How many eyeballs am I generating a day? Yeah, I like to average about 1 to 1.5 million views a day. That's my— like, how many of them bought loans? I don't know. I mean, how many of them got loans? I don't know. How many of them joined the company? I don't know. But I know that I'm generating and I'm hitting my barometer.

Yes. And you— we know that there's a certain conversion rate off of that, right?

Yeah.

So as long as you're getting that 1.2 every day, you're going to get X on the back side. It is what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm not like chasing the conversions because that's that number. I don't even know how to gauge it.

Yeah.

You know, like, but, you know, as long as, you know, I'm hitting those numbers, I'm going to convert.

Yeah.

Every single month. Now, you've made a lot of mistakes. I think we kind of covered one of your biggest mistakes. I don't know if you've had a bigger mistake. What's the biggest mistake you've had since you've launched?

You know, I would say, you know, there's a couple of things that kind of like the ones that kind of upset you a little bit is, you know, being trustworthy, you know, of the people that say who they are, you know, in providing the service they're going to do for you. Right. So you take it at face value. So what you learn from that is referrals. So anymore these days, and I tell everybody out there, if you're talking to mechanic, the plumber, electrician, whatever it is that they're going to do for you, an ad agency, talk to the people they're doing business with, find out how they're like, what kind of results you're really going to get, because everybody's going to go, of course I get X, 'X' ROI on every transaction, you know, they're going to go, 'Wow, that seems to be awfully high for that kind of service,' right? So then they don't get their references and talk to them behind the scenes, goes, 'Hey, what is this guy like? Is this a guy that lives by his word?' Basically say, 'Hey, I'm going to do it for $10,000, I'm going to do it for $2.

What is the metric here? And does he deliver? Does he under? Does he over?' And I like to work with guys that overdeliver, right? Because then at the end of the day, they always want to make sure you're happy. And a guy that wants to make sure you're happy, you're only going to be happy if they overdeliver. So if you're constantly overdelivering— because on my side, I always want to overdeliver as well because I want to get that referral for the next gig. So those are the guys that I look for. But yeah, you, you learn the hard way. There are some guys that will tell you that they're the best of the best, and you find out they're the worst of the worst, right? So it's a hard lesson to learn. But through the referrals, you're going to find out who they really are.

You do overdeliver. One thing I noticed about you, like, you get in the trenches, you do the work. Like, you will be the head chef.

Yes.

Like, you don't care. Like, you know, there is no job at Wahoo that you're not— you're too good for.

Yep.

You get in the weeds.

I get in the weeds.

Every good CEO gets right in the weeds and does the janitor's job, does the cook's job. And actually, you actually still do the cook's job. You still— that still brings you joy.

Well, when we came to your event, I'm out there cooking because I want to make sure Everything is perfect.

And I'm like, dude, Wing of Wahoos is making the tuna. Yeah. Like, we got to go get the tuna. That was your signature tuna from Hawaii.

That was pretty good.

Yeah.

This is straight up from Hawaii.

That's right.

I'm like, this is the best tuna I've ever had.

Yeah. We're going to have some poke. We're going to make some poke.

Yeah.

And we got to do that again.

Yeah, we got it. We're bringing it back. We got to do another event. And, you know, you're always such a good spirit. It's not just the food. It's the vibe with the food. I think a lot of the success of Wahoo's is because of you and the vibe that you brought with the food, because food is a shared experience.

Yep. Yeah.

And you want to be around happy people. You don't want to be there with a grumpy guy that goes, oh my God, it's Friday night, I'm stuck here behind the grill. It's Friday night, I'm happy to be behind the grill. See, that's the difference. Yeah.

What is it that makes you just such a joyful guy? What do you think it is that like inspires you to be so happy and want to be behind the, you know, the grill cooking for people? And, you know, where is that joy coming from?

Well, just again, the satisfaction of delivering a great experience, right? And the fact is you never know who they're related to, right? And recently, you know, there was a young kid that approached me and wanted to, you know, say, "Hey, I think my dad knows you," da da da, whatever it was. And I'm like, "Hey, let's go grab lunch and talk." And in the conversation, we find out that he's connected to a bunch of celebrities that I thought, wow, this would be a great— again, together we can do some really fun stuff. And again, without dropping any major names, but we're talking major celebrity guys. And in my head, I'm like, have I never taken the chance to go spend time with this kid? I would have never known who else he works with. And that's where a lot of people don't understand, like, the idea that you're ever going to go to a bar because you're going to meet somebody, the odds of you meeting that person is about zero and none. But the fact that you're going to go there to have a good time and make sure your friends are having a good time, when you're in that energy, that energy attracts people to you.

And then all of a sudden, guys, girls will be looking at— goes, wow, that guy's really cool, he's having a great time, I need to know who that guy is. And all of a sudden you meet people because you just put out a good vibe and it naturally comes back to you. But when you're putting that negative vibe out there, nobody goes, oh, that guy's like— I'm not going to go near that guy.

Nobody wants to be around Negative Nancy.

No, no, not at all. And so the people that you end up meeting and attracting, everybody rises together. So the possibility of doing more fun stuff just keeps happening because you are a fun person.

Now, um, Do you have a mistake that you could recall that just cost you a fortune?

There's been a few, but I would say, you know, if I had to put on one thing, right, promoters in general, because they actually don't have anything tangible, they're just a promoter, right? So you tend to learn early on that if you were promised whatever product whatever service you were promised on a promoter end, try to get it on the front end of the transaction. Because once the event is over, the ability to collect on any of those services are about zero and none, because all the leverage is gone because you already delivered your part of it.

Yeah.

And it's too late for them to do anything about theirs.

And they don't, they don't hold their word on it.

And they're like, I'm sorry, uh, things happen, uh, we didn't make enough money, whatever happened.

You're screwed and You're screwed and you're like, oh my God, and you promised your family, your friends to be able to do something and now you're stuck, right? So things like that. So you again learn early on and there's been a few instances with Promoter when we did college trips and it goes, okay, you know, we're going to get 10 tickets, everybody's going to go to, you know, on this trip. And when the time came to the event, I'm sorry, we only have 2 tickets and you're like, where's the rest of the 8 people going to go? Well, I'm sorry. That's all they have to say. And I'm like, well, sorry, this is not going to get these 8 people to wherever they want to go, right? And it's too late because it's happening. So if my job is— I should have gotten those 10 tickets the day we signed the contract to make sure my whole team is going to go, right? So you learn that and goes, okay, you learn these lessons, right? You get what you want on the front end. And I would say that's maybe 10% of the people, right?

But it just hopefully never happens to you in a way where it's meaningful that you promised your wife, your neighbor, your employee that they were going to get to do something if they did their part. And now they're sitting there going, what happened? Right? And they're like, I'm sorry. That's all they have to say. And I'm like, what is that going to do for us right now? Right? Nothing. So you learn and then you go, hmm, make a mental note.

Yeah.

Next time I talk to you, Meredith, you're in the restaurant business.

Anytime anything sketch like that happened to you?

Sketch, you know, in the restaurant business, you know, anybody ever left you hanging, hang to dry, I call it, right? They said, oh yeah, yeah, come over and, and, and come over and get this, right? And you come over and goes, oh yeah, by the way, that would be $100. And I'm like, I would have never came over here if you're going to charge me $100. Like, if you would have told me, right, to come by and get a new suntan, or, oh, we're going to do the tattoo for you because we're going to do a matching one on the other side. And then you get on the table, goes, well, that's gonna be $5,000. You're like, uh, uh, uh, right?

Yeah. Um, one time, not in a restaurant or anything, but one time a guy was like, oh, let me come over and cook you dinner. And then after he texted me, he's like, so that steak was $37, just so you know. I thought you're making this for me.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Uh, where'd you meet that guy? Don't go on that.

Don't go back there, because there's a big difference between come come over and get something and come over and buy something. Yeah, they're too big, right? So in my world, I know the difference, right? And you know who the guys are that literally come over here, you need a pair of sunglasses, come over here, come. And the next thing you know, goes, well, that'll be $300. I'm like, I, I didn't need the sunglasses for $300, right?

Yeah, you're like, I thought this was free, but okay.

Yeah, because, oh, we're going to trade services. I was going to make you cocktails and you're going to make me dinner, right? So there's that quid for a crow, right? It's okay, but you know what you're going to give, you know what you're going to get. The communication sometimes comes across as like, oh yeah, you're such a great girl and I'm going to do this for you, and by the way, here's the bill for it, right?

Well, this time he was parking in my apartment building's parking lot for like a couple days. He just needed his car there to go to San Diego. He's like, I'll make you dinner. So I was like, sure, exchange for it, exchange, and then try to get me to pay. I didn't pay though. You just kept your car here.

I know, exactly.

Yeah, that's those pansy guys we keep talking about, you know, that raising a generation where just like nobody— they're talking to their phone.

I know, but the idea is there are people out there, and, and to me, I'm perfectly— we're all big people, right? It's $100, $100, but let me know that on the front end so I can make that decision, right?

Or not.

I say, hey, do I really need that? Okay, you know what, $100 is a great deal because I've been looking at it. Everybody else was going to be $200 to $300. So $100, a great deal, right? And I always joke about there is no free lunches, right? So I always say, hey, what else can I do for you? Right? And so that way I don't feel like I'm taking advantage of anybody or any more than I want to be taken advantage of. Right? So there's always like, hey, what's the give and the get, right? So everybody's on the same page. Everything's above the board. And are we trading? Are we bartering?

Are we referring?

What are we doing here? What is the give and the get? Right? And it's perfectly okay. We're all adults and we understand there's no free lunches, right? But the idea that somebody's gonna go, oh yeah, let me hook you up. Oh, by the way, here's the $100— or is it $37.50, right?

I'm always aware of the guys that tell you, I'm gonna let me hook you up. Yeah. Now, Wing, I want to ask you, what do you think the biggest opportunity is that people are missing right now?

The biggest opportunity right now is the human thing, the networking. Because you can have the best idea, the best intention, but going at it by yourself because you don't think you need anybody and you don't think you want to share, right? It's crazy. Because guess what? 100% of nothing is nothing. 10% of a million bucks is a nice chunk of change. So the idea that you can work with other people, and yes, you still take a chance they might steal your idea, right? But the odds of creating this team helps you amplify and get to success a lot quicker or to failure a lot quicker, either way, right? So the idea that you can network with people that can help you grow your business, grow your idea, execute, whatever that means, right? I think it's still a big opportunity that not a lot of people understand.

I could be first— I'm a firsthand witness to how important that is to you. Because when I go to a masterminds event, you're there. You're still going to every masterminds. You're still like collaborating with people. You firmly believe in the power of human connection.

Yes.

And you live it and you do it. And you're an incredible genius networker. You know, you're still charming. You're still always going to network events. You're still like, making people laugh. You're still— you believe in that human connection.

I do, yeah. Because at the end of the day, when you get to the top of Mount Everest by yourself and there's nobody there to see that you got to the top, it means nothing, right? It's just like when you go surf by yourself and you got the best wave of your life, but you turn around and nobody saw it. I don't care what you tell your friends, To them, it never happened because nobody was there to share with you the experience, right? So the whole idea that you can bring everybody for the ride and you're there when the team won, when whatever happened, you can celebrate with other people. The concerts, whatever that is, because, oh my God, that was the best show ever. But if nobody was there, it's like, yeah, Joe, he's selfish, he just didn't want to bother inviting us. And all of a sudden you're there by yourself and there's no celebration. And life is about celebration, these moments, but you can only celebrate it with people that were there.

That's right, that's right. And hopefully more people keep that vibe alive. Now, um, what's the best piece of advice you would give a young entrepreneur right now?

I tell them, you may not know what you want to do for the rest of your life, but start eliminating the ones that you don't want to do. It's way quicker. I don't like this, I don't like that. Okay, great. Start checking them off until you figure out this. Hmm, I really like this. Now how do I make money doing this, right? So get rid of all the luggage, all the excess. Figure out what you don't want to do way quicker that you don't like. And then I like this. Is there a possibility that I can make a living doing this? And that's where you're going to find the happiness, because we all talked about if you love what you do, it doesn't feel like work.

Yeah. And that's what keeps you so resilient and so, you know, so happy all the time. It's like you really love what you do. You're in the weeds. You're going to these masterminds events. You're cooking the food. I mean, the founder of Wahoo's Taco cooking the food. That sounds like a movie.

It is. It's a great life. I mean, and I get to do it with some of the most amazing people on this planet. So for me, people say, hey, I would get to know these celebrities or these musicians. I'm like, you're out of your mind. I'm way out of their league. But the fact that I have a passion for my craft, they have a passion for their craft, that's where we meet in the middle. Because they're like, hey, at the end of the concert, be nothing like having great food, or at the beginning of the concert, right? And that's where we come together.

It's a beautiful thing. Now, get you some more coffee, Wayne?

Sure.

Wing, if you were to put a special message on a billboard today that you wanted to tell the world, what would it say?

Get your shit together.

Let's go! That's a great billboard. I like that. I like that. We have a special surprise. Okay, we have a special guest calling in. His name is Dominic DeAngelis. He's an upcoming chef, and his dream is to open a restaurant like every chef wants to. And he wants to be a restaurateur just like you.

Okay.

But he wants to get some practical advice, so he's going to ask you some questions and see if we can help him out.

All right, sounds good. Let's do it.

Hey Dom, I'm Joe Shelby. I'm your host here for the show. Thanks for calling in.

Of course, Joe. Thank you.

All right, so go ahead. You got Wing Lam, the legend himself. You got his attention.

Yes. How we doing? Um, hey, this is this is great because as someone that wants to open their own restaurant very soon, I have some questions.

So yeah, fire away. Let's see. Let's start at the top. First, well, go ahead. You start or I'll start. Whatever you want to do. Yeah.

Yeah. So basically, I, I became a private chef 6 years ago. Pretty new to this, but I always was around food in my Italian household. And that was my love for it. But I pivoted careers and, you know, it's been— it hasn't been easy, but it's like it's going in the right direction finally. And I think it's time to open my first, you know, brick and mortar, as they, as they say. So, yeah, I was just, I was just wondering. So like, because I have so many questions, like mine isn't going to be a restaurant. Restaurant. I think they call it a fast casual high-end luxe.

Okay, that's like the right term.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, but yeah, I was wondering, you know, what, what's like the hard— what was the hardest part about like opening your first restaurant that nobody warned you about?

Uh, I would say that, uh, having been in the restaurant my entire life before opening my own was the amount of work outside of making food, right? So payroll, insurance, advertising, all the other functions besides making food that you don't think about, that consumes a huge— so for every hour of, you know, restaurant operation, you probably got about a half hour worth of paperwork, I call it, right? So that's one thing. So somewhere in your group, you need to have an accountant type, an HR type, and, you know, like basically an insurance, you know, like a lawyer kind of, you know, just to make sure that you're not going to get sued, right? So you got to have the human business part of the business in line, which most restaurant guys never think about. And that, you know, and that can make or break you literally really quickly, because if you're not managing your cash flow and following all the rules— taxes, payroll, all that other, you know, the functions, right?

It's a big thing. Okay, okay.

Um, that's true. Yeah, you're gonna have a whole team. Um, so if you were to build like a fast casual restaurant brand today, if you started from scratch, what would be your first move?

The first thing that I would think about beside— because I already know the back of the, the rest of the paperwork, right? Uh, because unlike most restaurant chefs, I actually have a finance degree from college. So I'm a bean counter, right? So my— all my decisions, believe it or not, as crazy as they may sound, there's a financial upside and downside risk that I know. Right. So it sounds crazy because people are like, hey, you're doing an event. I'm like, yes, but I'm getting paid to do an event. There's a difference between just going out and handing out free tacos on the street corner and getting paid to hand out free tacos on the street corner.

Okay.

So that's one. So if you are able to create stories around social media, right. Give people a reason to come to you because what are you doing differently in your end of town that's different than all the other restaurants that are similar to you, right? So I don't know if you're going to do Italian, Mexican, Caribbean. I don't know what kind of food you're going to do, but whatever that is, it doesn't matter to me. But all it matters is how much different are you than everybody else that's providing something similar. Right? So if you can then tell that on social media, people are going to go, oh my God, look at this, I've never seen anything like this, right? So that gives people a reason to try it, right? But then you got to be able to follow up with it because is it going to be different? Yes. But now after they try it, why would they come back? Because it was so much better and different than anything out there, right? So that's the key because it doesn't require a lot of money, but if you got to have some people that can influence the rest of the population to come into your restaurant, your ad strategy needs to be on point because right now in this social media world, like, you, you got to build your personal brand.

Your, your food has to have a brand. You have to have a personal brand. So your marketing is the crux of everything now.

Yeah.

And earlier on our show, we were talking about how social media could really make or break you, your business, and your social media playbook has to just be like, you know, where are you launching? You have to have that ready and dialed and on point before you even launch your restaurant.

Yep. And, and I would say, you know, what the one thing I tell all businesses, not just restaurant people, specifically guys that like dentist accountants, people that study a specific skill set, a chef, right? Nobody fails because they're bad at what they do. It's like, no, no restaurant closes because they have bad food. In relative terms, all restaurants have really good food. The reason they fail, they can't get people in the doors.

Yeah, yeah, marketing, the—

yeah, marketing and branding. What, what is your food type, by the way, that you're gonna launch? For fast cash?

So, so I, it's, let's just say it's a sandwich shop.

Um, it's a type of sandwich shop. Like, I'll give you an example. Our friend Ike from Ike's Sandwiches did a great job and he did a great job in what the sandwiches are good, but he did a great job building his personal brand.

Oh yeah. I've been to several LA parties and he has his sandwiches there and he has his, his cutouts.

So one thing that Ike does really well, which he, uh, he talked about earlier, um, uh, Wing did, was networking, building his brand and networking. And Wing said one of the most powerful things is networking because it doesn't really cost anything. Wing till this very day is at every Masterminds event. And you know, also that every Masterminds event, Ike, Ike's there. So we, we know him really well, but I'm giving him as an example because he built a personal brand. Around him and his sandwiches.

I'm definitely going to be the outgoing person in the business.

Yeah, because you got to be. You got to be. Networking is a big part of your success because, you know, when you get with all the other masterminds in the industry, they're going to give you insights that you never even thought existed. I'm not even a restaurateur. I just know what I know from talking to Wing and being a consumer, right? Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, and a brand enthusiast.

There's another sandwich guy in our end of town that you gotta look at, and I, I've been busting his chops for, I want to say, probably maybe almost 20 years. And you can Google it, it's called Sessions. Yeah, Matt. So the same thing, I used to joke with him that it goes, you haven't made it until you drive a branded vehicle. So he made it his mission to get a little Sprinter van that was branded with Sessions on it. And then he drives to my house and goes, you see, I made it. I'm like, okay, you know. And his shtick is he makes great sandwiches, but he does a lot with the lifeguards, right? Because his original store is literally 5 minutes from my house at the beach. So he constantly does stuff with the lifeguards, and that's his little shtick, like after surfing, before surfing, you know. Very much like what I did with Wahoo. The difference was he was much closer to the ocean. He's a block away from the ocean where I'm more of about a mile away. And state. And yeah, he's in different—

yeah, he's in the—

but what Matt's talent was, he didn't mention Matt was a promoter. That was his gift. Oh yeah, he was a promoter. So were you.

Yeah.

You know, you guys promoted first. So that's a gift. You got to be a major promoter. That's a major advertiser. That's, that's how you make it. There's no— you can have a crappy sandwich and still make it. And there's all types of use cases like that, especially in like, you know, Yeah, desserts. Yeah, you got all types of crappy food and crappy desserts that are just famous. Yeah, just because they got great promotions.

Great promotion.

We're talking to investors, and I just don't know if I'm gonna go that route yet, or before get it, you know, a standalone store, maybe, maybe a food truck to try it out. But I don't know if that's the right move. Maybe I should just go right into the store.

Order.

I would say that the, not the reason not to go into a store is because of the overhead. You're going to be stuck for at least a 5-year lease that you don't want to be involved in. I would say even before a food truck, cause the food truck is going to still cost you about $100 grand anyway. I would get into, you know, like you were doing before, privateer, start getting people to order, you know, especially offices and just become more, instead of a private chef, more of a private caterer. And get that going and then build that. And then all of a sudden start a store.

Hey, I appreciate the call in. We got to run. We got a hard stop in a couple of minutes, but we'll get, we'll get your info. We'll stay in touch with you.

Thank you guys. Thank you guys.

Great talking to you.

Great meeting you.

We have a fun segment. You're going to love this segment.

All right.

What do I get to do?

Something you've never done before on air. Okay. We are going to blindfold you right now and I promise we won't do anything bad to you. Okay, these are nice blindfolds.

You look very nice.

Yeah, look at this. This is quite chic.

He's gonna take a bite and he's gonna have to guess which one is Wahoo's taco.

Oh, I'm not that good.

Okay, there's 3 tacos in front of you. You're gonna take a bite of each one and then tell me.

I have each one. I'm about to make a mess right now.

Here, hold on, you're all catawampus.

Here you go.

You can stay there.

Sauce?

There is sauces. That one? Yeah. Okay, here's, here's the first one. Put your hands over.

There you go.

Okay, let's go. I did have a lot of fish off earlier, so I'm not—

You don't have to guess now, just eat all of them.

Yeah. Oh, Okay, this one is number 2.

They all look pretty good.

Yeah, you have an advantage, you get to see them first.

It's okay.

That one was pretty good though. And you had to do beer battered, like how am I gonna know? That's definitely not it.

Oh, you don't like that one.

That's wahoo. No, no.

Yeah. Oh no, not you.

You almost put in your coffee cup.

You're dipping your taco in coffee. Which one do you think is the—

the third one.

Nope.

Oh, then it was the first one.

Yep.

You take your blindfold off.

Those are all really good though. They're all really good.

Yeah, except the second one. Okay, that was like— it was good, but it was like—

but you get—

I'll—

but we're gonna switch them up so we can—

yeah, I can't see.

They're all good though. Excellent.

But at the end of the day, they're all good fish tacos.

They're all good.

Yeah.

Okay, here we go.

All right, there we go.

Shuffle it around so it's not first, second, third.

Okay, put your hands out. This one's going to be the first taco.

He's so into the tacos.

This chef, he makes me hungry just watching him eat.

Okay, number 2.

Number 2? That's it?

Wow, that's it. Good job, Wayne.

You know your tacos.

I know my tacos.

The legend.

I mean, I got it right in the second try, so that was cool. Where was the third one from?

Got it from Rubio's, Wahoo's, and Coastal, uh, Grill Fish Taco.

Okay, so the Coastal Grill Fish Taco was the third one because Rubio's, we know that flavor.

Yeah, yeah, boring. Yeah, the last one was pretty good. Yeah, mine was good.

Yeah, yeah.

Which taco do you think tastes the freshest?

You know, it's one of those things about tacos. I never put anybody down because I love tacos. Yeah, so whether they're my competitors or mine, I tell everybody, just go out and eat fish tacos, they're great.

God bless you for your answer. Um, which taco would you order again other than yours?

I probably ordered the last one.

Yeah, that's the coastal fish taco.

Yeah, that was pretty good.

That was a good one. Yeah. And, uh, you obviously know which, which taco is, uh, Wahoo's. Any, any, would you critique Wahoo's at all? Like, what would you do to make it better?

Uh, nothing. I mean, I, like I said Simple fish with a little bit of, you know, slaw on top, a little bit of the cream sauce.

It's perfect.

It was amazing. Yeah. I love your tacos. Thank you. Now, Wing, what do you think makes a Wahoo's Taco unique?

The fact that we use wahoo. No other fish taco place in America, if not in the world, uses wahoo.

That's some of the best fish on the planet.

Yeah, it's the best fish on the planet. So we wild caught, we're the only ones that use it. We're the largest buyer of wahoo in America. That's the difference.

The best fish. And those of you who don't know what wahoo is, that is a hard fish to catch. Absolutely. Very hard fish to catch.

Hard to catch, hard to find.

Yeah, hard to find. You gotta go, you get them from Hawaii only?

No, we get it from Fiji.

Fiji, even better.

Even better.

Do you think I got a pretty sophisticated palate or I need to try some more tacos?

You need to eat some more tacos.

Wing, thank you so much for coming on today's show. Uh, if people want to learn more about what you're doing, or, you know, talk to you, or meet you, or get some counsel from you, how can they find you?

You can email me wing.lam@wahoos.com.

Wing.lam, guys, he gave you his email. Reach out to him.

Thanks.

Absolutely.

For jumping on today's show, it's always a pleasure. I look forward to having you back in a couple years, see what you're doing, making the Thrifties Empire global again. Absolutely. Bringing back low-cost ice cream. Let's go.

All right, let's do this.