Transcript of Mom's Car: Dakota Fanning & Jake Johnson

Hello, I'm Dax. This is Aaron. Welcome to Mom's Cart. Today we have Dakota Fanning and Jake Johnson. Friend of the pod, Jake Johnson. First time for Dakota Fanning. Of course, Dakota is an award-winning actor. I Am Sam, Ripley, War of the Worlds, my very favorite, what's the— Man on Fire. Man on Fire.

She's so good.

Jake Johnson's a prick. What can I say? He's also an actor. We're Here to Help podcast. So funny, I've been on it. New Girl, The Dink, Safety Not Guaranteed. And the movie that we swear to God is so good, The Sun Never Sets.

So good.

You'll hear how much we loved it. Please enjoy Dakota Fanning and Jake Johnson. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking the dress code at the new restaurant, showing up in sandals and getting turned away at the door, no fun at all. Yeah, checking first is always a good move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Uber Eats. Boom, boom, boom. In need of groceries? Uber Eats has you covered. From last-minute ingredients to weekly essentials, get groceries delivered in as little as 25 minutes with Uber Eats. Get groceries delivered with Uber Eats. Terms apply. See app for details. Now let's get into the show. Oh, look at this.

Here we go.

Here we go.

Oh, Uber Eats time. Let's go.

Can you now say the delivery service?

Yeah. Okay, okay, okay.

Yes.

God, you know your shit, don't you? I do, I do. I'm so flattered. Were you flattered when she said she's gonna be first? Oh, you want to do a double?

Fuck yes!

Yay!

We gotta buy a Dakota. Okay, normally I would save this to the end, but I'm gonna get right into our review of the film.

Oh, okay.

The movie being The Sun Never Sets with you two. We sit down last night to watch it after a very romantic dinner at All Time.

Just you two?

Yeah, we got that crazy steak thing.

Yeah, what a nice night for you guys.

Oh, it was incredible. Oh, it was candlelit. We sit on the sidewalk. And then we come back, we turn it on, and the first act, I'm a little bit like, is this like— this is gonna be sad? Where are we at? Of course, to set it up, which is— you set it up.

My character plays a guy who moved to Anchorage based off Joe Swanberg's real life, but not the Anchorage part, but the married with 2 kids and goes through a divorce. I move up there, I hate it there, but it was one of those pandemic moves where I had to be there for the kids.

Yep.

I start dating a younger, cooler woman, played by Dakota, with the rules of, we're never going to get married, we're never going to have kids.

Your rules.

Yes, but set between them. We talked about that from the beginning, of this is just what it is, but we do love each other. She's essentially like a stepmom, and they have this whole—

Your kids love her.

Love me. Life is working.

Life is working for both of them.

Except your parameters sort of come down.

You have a girlfriend who gets pregnant.

I have a girlfriend played by Debby Ryan who gets pregnant. She's sort of putting the pressure on me of, don't you— like, this is kind of what you wanted. Are you sure that you don't want this still? I claim that I don't.

She's right at that point of life, and this was something Joe in real life, you know, goes through because he does feel if somebody has that moment taken from them, they have resentment forever.

Yes, of course.

So you go like, well, I was with you during those years, but now I've realized I've missed something that you have, and now I hate you for it.

And let's be real about this. When I consider Kristin leaving me, which could happen for numerous reasons, and I think about having Having to date someone again. One of the many reasons I wouldn't want to have kids with someone ever again is like the enthusiasm and excitement that you have for child number 1 is so special.

Agreed.

And you don't even have it for child number 2, for your own kid. Meet at curbside, 4425. Oh.

Look inside my—

Where is 4425? This is half of the show is us trying to figure out what fucking address we're at. This is great though. Meet on the curb is fun 'cause I thought—

'Cause then you see the person. Yes.

And I thought we could do the show and some people would be excited to meet me and everyone's leaving. So I've not gotten to meet virtually anyone. So the whole premise of the show unraveled in the first episode. Totally.

I should just say, all these things that you're saying, I already know them all.

Yeah.

Okay.

All these stories.

You go to the fan fest. All my opinions.

You're a fan.

All those, I know them.

It might be a fun game for you, Jake, to ask me a question and let Dakota answer it. And see if I can answer it.

When did Dax lose his virginity?

12? Yes!

Boom! Holy fuck, Nicole! What was Dax's first car that he fell in love with?

Oh, I don't know.

I don't know this.

I'm a little specific. He's probably said it, but I didn't absorb that one.

Okay, so back to you. So if Kristen, you know, my issue would be like, I would feel very bad for a new partner that I wouldn't be able to give them the enthusiasm they would deserve, 'cause I just don't think you can replicate it.

Yeah, I agree.

Suffice to say, what's your genius plan then, your character's genius plan, genius plan, Jake, to deal with this sis?

Jack's plan in this situation is for Wendy to go out and spend the summer and date other people.

Okay.

To see what's out there in Anchorage so that she can have kind of a rough summer with kind of, you know, goofy guys. And the character of that guy Brad is the perfect example.

Oh, good.

And so Jack's thought is he's gonna have Wendy date other people and then basically come home and say, I won't have resentment for you later. I saw it's not you holding me back.

This is what I want. Yeah, you're very confident. By the way, I'm identifying with you. I'm like, this is a kind of stupid plan I might have.

That's what I loved about the idea.

Yeah, you seem like you're really generous.

He gets to win.

Yes, in all ways. He gets what he wants.

He's going to get her back, and he's so generous and confident and cool. So, Joe Swanberg in real life did this. Oh, he did this?

I was gonna say, it felt so like it had to have happened to somebody involved in creating it. And then your character, additionally, not only the kids and the marriage, but also you are whimsical and you still want to be on adventures and you want to buy this boat and maybe explore.

I do. And also, you know, I mean, it's set in Alaska, it's set in Anchorage. Everyone there is outdoorsy, hiking all the time, taking little planes, getting on a boat, driving here, camping there. I mean, that's part of it.

Or in blackouts. Those are the two options. Super outdoorsy or stage 9 alcoholism.

And fist fighting in bars. At 6 PM.

Yeah, yeah. Never gotten almost more fights than Anchorage. 100%.

So she's definitely still wanting to do all of that and wanting a partner who will do that with her. That's not who Jake's character is at all. He's super open about it. She accepts it. So basically, on her adventure to go out and see what's out there, she runs into her ex-boyfriend Chuck, who's played by Corey Michael Smith.

Great turn. You're like, yeah, who's she gonna meet that she's gonna have this connection with? And then, of course— And then Corey comes.

Anyone.

Who you have unsettled business with is going to have some crazy power over you for the rest of your life. Very plausible.

Yes.

So from Erin and I's point of view, what we're going through is like, okay, it's a relationship, she wants a child, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's the plan. We're both still just kind of like, okay, okay, okay. When you meet the ex-boyfriend and now that thing is happening, the conversation on the couch between you two— We lost it. We were screaming laughing watching a man get hoisted by his own batard.

Genius.

Yeah. And your fucking 180 in 4 sentences. The fact that you're screaming, I want to have a baby with you more than anything.

And Dakota on that couch, the way Wendy is, she's so— the status has changed.

Yes.

And she's now not like— even when I offer her the wine and she's like, I don't want any. It's like, I know, I come into like my stupid little slacks where I'm like, You can't keep coming here. Have some wine. We're about to have sex. It's gonna be great.

He's like, actually, no, I'm about to leave.

And then he's like, wait, no, you're supposed to drink wine and be charmed. I knew how this night was going.

What a great story, though. Oh my God.

It's a load of—

Yeah, so what else did you think?

What else did you think? Neither of us had slept in 24 hours, and we got to it really late. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jess was like, you better stay awake at least for some of it, 'cause I'm prone to falling asleep anyway, even if I'm rested.

You get drowsy?

And man, we loved it. Oh my God. We were screaming laughing. Be right back.

Okay.

Have you ever eaten here?

No.

No, nor I. I, I don't like fish, but you already know that.

I do.

We would have the weirdest first date. I would literally be like thinking, what on earth has Ted in 8 years, 1,200 episodes, what could possibly be left about me?

You know it all.

Look how handsome Weakley is.

Oh, he's so sweet.

Isn't he?

Yes.

Isn't he the greatest person on planet Earth? He's the greatest.

Yes.

I'm so in love with them. And going so long, you know?

Yeah.

More than 40 years of being in love.

So nice.

And how about you, Dakota? I do.

So I was homeschooled until I was in 9th grade, and then I started going to—

Campbell Hall.

Campbell Hall, yes. And so my friends are all from that time, and we're all still friends, so— except for the Burkholders. Those are all— those are older friends than Campbell Hall, 'cause Max and Elle did a movie together when they were 4.

I'm sorry, I missed the part.

Where's your best friend from?

Well, I'm born in Georgia originally, moved to LA when I was 6 and started acting. Yeah. And then I was homeschooled until 9th grade, and then I went to school here, regular school.

Do you think you're missing anything sociologically that you would've learned in that period of interacting with other little kids?

I think I missed the part where kids are the meanest to each other.

You did.

Yeah, I did.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, the stories of 7th and 8th grade that my friends have, I'm like, I'm really glad I passed.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It was fun for us, and it seems that no one else enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you loved 7th grade.

Oh, it was the best year of my whole life. I'm having a great life, and I'd still live that one on repeat if I could.

Totally.

But that's how I feel about high school. Like, I loved every single second of it.

That's cool.

I loved it. Going to Campbell Hall in LA, like, there was no weirdness that I was an actor. Everybody's parent was some— you know, there was a parent who was somebody, or somebody knew somebody.

You weren't a freak.

No, there wasn't any of that. And it's all my best friends to this day.

How were you dealing with— I even found as an adult, like, I did Without a Paddle, right? And that was my first movie. And I had the most amazing connective experience of my life with 2 dudes I had never met. And at the end of it, Lillard, who'd already done 30 movies, he goes, I just want you to know, we're never gonna see each other again. And I was like, what are you saying? We're brothers!

I would— I will say, I think because I was so young and like doing these movies, like a lot of the people really did stay a part of my life in various ways. But, um, I did a movie with Kurt Russell, who I know you also know, and we became really close and we still are. to this day, but I could go 5 years and not see him, and then see him, and then we're in a corner talking for the whole night and whatever. But he told me when we did the movie together, because we had just developed this really special bond—

I'm so in love with him, as you know.

I'm— I mean, he's just the greatest. But he taught me that. He was like, I want you to understand, it's not gonna be this way ever again. You know what I mean? We might go years where we don't see each other, But I want you to always know that I love you.

It's real. I love you.

And I'm always here for you. What a cool thing to say.

Yeah. Oh, I love it.

And just because we don't keep in touch all the time, all the time, all the time, does not take away how special our relationship is.

Yes.

Yeah. Looking back, I always remembered that.

Because I just imagine it'd be a little hard for me to compute when I was in elementary school if I was best friends with someone and then they were gone. I don't know. But maybe it wouldn't be. I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, it was fine.

I enjoyed it.

I don't know.

Now the weird thing about Kurt, I didn't know you guys were bros like that, but I gotta say, numerous times when we were watching the movie last night, I was like, she looks a lot like Kate.

Yes, yes, I do.

Yeah.

And I know Kate pretty well too.

Yeah, you were in her short she made when I was dating her. I remember being in the editing room all throughout that whole thing.

Yeah, I've always been told. I've always been told that.

Yeah. So for him, even probably to fall in love with you.

I think he saw me as a little mini Kate. He got to kind of have that little special thing with another little girl who looked just like her. And I mean, there's just the— Goldie's unbelievable. Kate's unbelievable. It's just such a great family.

Okay, since we're talking about your early work, there's really just— 'cause I promised you I wasn't gonna dig. The movie that I can't believe your performance in, I couldn't then and I still can't wrap my head around it, is Man on Fire. Oh, the best. Fuck!

Fuck!

My crazy fans! Oh my God, your little face in the swimming pool and the schmutz thing. And you know to go, and you're a good little trooper. I know.

Oh, I know.

I want to know, like, Jake, you've obviously seen Man on Fire, right? How old were you?

9.

9?

Yeah.

It's among the best acting I've ever seen in my whole life.

Thank you.

Thank you. And I want to know, is it easier to be that good when you're younger and harder when you're older? Like, I'm always curious about that.

I don't approach it any differently than I did when I was that age. I try to keep the— at the end of the day, it's just using your imagination.

Do you not get more self-conscious as an adult, though?

You do, but I really try to stay away from that.

That was another thing I really observed is your lack of vanity in this movie.

Yeah, yeah.

Not that you didn't look fantastic, but you're not in harem makeup.

No, not really, no. And so I do try to keep a perspective of, like, you know, the way that you observe yourself is not the way that other people observe you. You know, like, when I laugh really loud, my nose crinkles up and, like, you know, I get like a little double chin sometimes, like, and I see a picture, I'll be like, oh my God. And then I've had other people be like, oh my God, when you laugh so loud, like when you really laugh and your nose crinkles up, like, oh, I love when you do that. And I'm like, okay, there we go. I mean, you know what I mean? So you just can't hold on too tightly to those things because you're not able to see yourself.

What about teenagers?

Still fine.

You never didn't do it in some sense.

I never didn't do it. Yeah. I think because I was homeschooled until 9th grade. I showed up to the first day of 9th grade in a plaid— the uniform, no one would really wear the plaid skirt that much. I showed up in the plaid skirt and I had a rolling backpack.

Oh no, a rolling backpack. Nerd.

I had a rolling backpack.

Yeah, plaid skirt's fine with me. The rolling backpack is a big no-no.

Little 50-year-old woman at the airport.

But by the way, I did not give a fuck that people might have thought that was embarrassing. I was like, this is what I want. It had my name on it. I really didn't care at all. Again, I didn't have those traumatizing years of being like, oh, thinking about every move you make and being made fun of for it or whatever. I was homeschooled by the same teacher from 2nd grade to when I went to school. And so I think it gave me a unique bit of confidence and esteem.

Lack of self-consciousness.

And lack of self-consciousness. And I kept that I wore that rolling backpack the whole first year, and then we switched it up the next year.

You formed some friends and they're like, please, Dakota, please, it's for our group. We like it. We can't have— yeah, we can't have that shit.

Hey, take that on vacation this summer and then leave it wherever you go on vacation.

I wore it to my last day of senior year.

Oh, I like that. Still to this day, when I do something, I hear the voices of the kids in my school going, You fucking pussy. You know, like, if I'm sharing about something emotional, it's like I hear them going like, oh, you need so much fucking attention, don't you? Like, those— the chorus, my shadow, is really these guys we grew up with. We just could not be masculine enough. It was impossible. Do you have that, Jake?

Uh, yeah, I have— those voices are more a couple of my uncles.

Okay.

That were— it wasn't ever meant to be mean. That's what uncles do. Yes, but it was more like— I had one Uncle Paul who I adored, Saw a live show, a 2-person show I'd written that I was traveling the country with.

Uh-huh.

And he had just finished a big shift as a fireman where he was on for, you know, whatever it is, the 30 hours.

Yeah.

And he watched it, and it's a 2-person show. There was like a dance, an improvised dance we do that was supposed to be comedic.

That's gonna be rough for him.

There was like an old-timey bit that we didn't fully have figured out, but it was like me with like a little umbrella. It was just— there were some hits and misses.

Sure, sure.

And at the end, he walked over and he said, don't do anything I wouldn't do, but it's too late for that. And I went like, again, thank you so much for coming. I was like— my buddy Billy was like, what'd he say? I was like, it wasn't warm.

It must be right here.

Okay.

All right. See you in a sec.

So part of Uber Eats is just picking up— you pick up like 4 or 5 or 9?

Yeah, you go to 5 and drop it off.

That's right. It's just people who want to get rid of their food.

Also, it's kind of crazy. Out of curiosity, we didn't look at what the first woman's having delivered.

I know. I feel like that's— you're not supposed to.

She told me what it was.

Oh, she did?

What is it?

So she owns a business, and she She made a jacket herself, and then somehow this jacket's going somewhere that will be shipped. I'm not sure why there's an intermediary, but yeah.

She's a jacket maker.

What's in there, your wallet?

No, drinks.

Oh, okay.

Perfect.

Yeah. Okay, another moment you guys have to know about. This has happened to me twice this year. So did you guys happen to see The Invite? Yes.

No, I haven't yet.

I have, yes.

Okay. And you already know this, unfortunately.

Yeah, yeah, that's okay.

But there's a moment where Penélope Cruz, who is just— she's so powerful as a psychic. You know? And she looks at Seth Rogen, and she's like, I want you to take me into that room. And the way she said it, I literally, in an embarrassed moment— 'cause we were in a screening with journalists— and I go, oh, yeah. I, like, I clung it. I was like, yes, I'll go with you. I don't care about my family or my parents.

Right now, Cher's going like this. This is why. Got him.

Got him. Here's the clip. Okay, so, yeah, you guys have this fight. It's going sideways, and then— And it fucking heats up in this way that's so real. And when you guys started fucking kissing, we were like, yes! Fucking get it going! What was it like being in Alask— how long were you guys in Alaska?

We were there for like a month.

Okay.

During what month?

May, June.

Oh, perfect.

It was a perfect time to be there.

It was a perfect time. Really, the sun never set.

Yes.

I just started feeling weird.

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

From the smells in the car? In Alaska.

No, no, no, in Alaska.

Oh, Alaska!

That was so sweet. That was such dad facts. I got whirly. That just showed our dynamic. When you see me as a 9-year-old boy outta nowhere during the thing, I go, I feel weird. Yeah.

I'm alone.

What can we do?

Let's get him outta the car. Get some water. Eat some food. Eat some food.

I wish I was that open with my feelings. Oh my God.

That's so funny.

970. 970.

Fedora.

Leave at 406. Beautiful, that's the one. And this is this. Okay, love you guys.

Bye! Did you leave it at the door?

I did.

Oh man.

So Jake, you've had a kind of a monster year. I keep noticing that The Dink is like number one movie. I'm so happy for you.

Yeah, it's been a nice run. It's a— well, it's a really fun movie and it's really light. And I honestly— and even though it's tonally so different, it's what I like about The Sun Never Sets too.

For me too, it was like, I am somebody who I was single and dating, and you can get really cynical and depressed by the state of how that goes sometimes.

Do you use apps?

I had one stint on an app, and then I talked shit about it on a talk show, and I felt like I had to delete it after that because I would've been a hypocrite.

Oh, I don't know. You can be a hypocrite in love.

It was like a disaster.

It was a disaster. It was a disaster. Did you get at all addicted? I just imagine being—

Oh, I got totally addicted to it. Yeah, yeah.

Yes, totally.

And then they're like, you can unlock more. Like, and I— but I wouldn't unlock more. I would wait. Then you have to wait for it to fill back up again.

It was like, so the addiction of it is just you see all the options, all the options who are on this app, I suppose. But you can either just— the addiction part of it goes, you go like, sure, I would, I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. And then if the I would's right back, it's that rush, I guess. Okay.

Yeah, the ma—

like matching, that becomes the fun, like casino slot shit.

And then I just like wouldn't text back. Like, then they would send me a message and I wouldn't And then I was like, why am I doing this? Like, I don't want to do this.

Again, sadly, we're kind of hardwired to attempt to get the best we can. Yeah, right. You want the best option that's available to you in anything, whatever that is. Yeah, I would imagine I'd be like, oh yeah, she's so cute, and look, she went to this school, that's cool. I wonder, is there someone better than that? Let me just take a peek.

I mean, it's just, it's like, I don't— I ultimately just kind of— it didn't feel like it It was, for me, it felt like a game, too much of a game. But point being, it's very easy to get down about that. And I do think with this movie, what I liked about it is that, at least when I watch it, it doesn't feel like a cynical take on relationships and dating.

It's not cynical at all. But I will say, Erin and I, at the end of it, we both collectively just looked at each other and we're like, yeah, we're the worst, man. This whole like, dude, we're terrible. Like the whole, it's not my thing. Yeah, we're like, we don't want to do one thing that's not our thing.

Yeah.

Oh, sometimes we're guilty of it.

That's so exactly right.

Exactly relatable. Stay tuned for more Mom's Car. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking which floor of the airport parking garage you parked on before your trip, it's 5 days later and now you're rolling your suitcase through a parking garage that all looks the same, clicking your key fob, hoping to hear Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Uber Eats. Do you love cooking but dislike having to find parking and wandering aisles trying to remember if you're actually out of certain ingredients? Because same. The good news is you can skip the grocery run and have what you need delivered in as little as 25 minutes with Uber Eats. Shop fresh produce, pantry essentials, and all that everyday good stuff from your favorite grocery stores. Whether you're stocking up for the week, grabbing a few essentials, or getting ingredients for tonight's dinner, Uber Eats makes grocery shopping easy.

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You want these Cokes? Yeah.

What's— oh, is that— It's the big boy.

Oh, good.

You want help? Yeah, come with me. All right, here you go. You could double the odds of us getting recognized right now.

So far to order hamburgers from.

Yeah.

She needed it.

She needed it.

Of all the hamburger joints in all the world.

The things that I've done that are too close and too far. Like, I can't even.

You have no judgment.

No judgment.

We one time delivered ice cream to people like 40 minutes away or something.

I've done that. I've done that.

I'm like, here's your glass of milk.

You're gonna— there's a place. Has anybody ever been to Brewster's? Is there a Brewster's where you are in Tennessee? Brewster's is an ice cream place that I grew up with in Georgia, and they're on the East Coast, and there's one in La Cañada.

Oh, okay.

And it has my favorite I have a favorite flavor of ice cream ever, which is cotton candy.

Oh, you like cotton candy?

I don't like it from everywhere.

Okay.

I only like it from Brewster's.

It's a very child order.

Yes.

Cotton candy.

But it is my favorite, and I have gotten it delivered from the Brewster's in La Cañada. But my favorite thing is Dairy Queen. So when you do talk about Dairy Queen, that's like soft serve is my favorite. Like Dairy Queen is my absolute favorite.

What's your order at Dairy Queen?

Um, I mean, sometimes I'll just get like just a cup of vanilla, like really plain. Like I'd love The soft serve, like a really big one, or hot fudge, and I make them put it on the bottom too.

Uh-huh, okay, great. Never a Blizzard?

I don't get the Blizzards.

Mine is a hot fudge sundae with extra hot fudge, small, and then the banana split Blizzard. And then this year, which was so exciting, is now they're adding Fruity Pebbles to Blizzards. So fucking banana split plus Fruity Pebbles and Heath bar. Oh my God.

I don't eat fruit, so I don't do banana splits.

You don't eat fruit at all?

No.

'Cause you have an allergy?

Nope.

No, you just don't like the taste of it.

I don't like the texture.

You're so weird. I like it. That was the part of Alaska.

That would— Jake would just ask me, like, what about this? And I'd be like, I don't like it.

I just want you guys to clock that this guy is opening and closing his door a ton. Oh, what's he doing? Exciting. And I— who knows what's next? He might barrel roll out the side at some point, but he— you'll see, he's gonna have his door open here pretty shortly. You won't have to wait long, I promise. The door's coming. Oh, I bet I know what's going on. Was it locking? Fucking hot as hell in there. He doesn't have AC.

Oh, yeah.

And he's getting more air.

Yeah.

As soon as he slows down, he pops the door open. This is great. I one time had a cab ride, my favorite cab ride of my life. I don't think the brakes were not working, but his chosen method to slow down is as he was approaching the stoplight, he'd be using some brake, but then he'd put it in neutral. And then as he got really close, he'd pop it in reverse and give it a little gas in the back.

What a fucking jerk.

And I'm like, this guy's using reverse as a brake, 'cause why not? It's not his car, it's the fucking cab.

Yeah.

And I could have driven cross-country with this guy. Like, I wanna see if he slows down on the highway by sliding it into reverse. Oh, he's doing it. Yeah, he's got it. Okay, great. Oh, I bet the window doesn't go down either. Maybe the windows don't go down either.

The window doesn't go down.

And he's got his girl with him.

And he's texting.

On his phone, he's texting.

And he's shooting dope.

He's doing everything but driving. I've said that to people.

to be doing everything but driving.

That's shocking.

But, uh, Dakota, you're, you're truly outrageously good in this. I mean, the entire movie really is on your shoulders in that, do we believe this emotional ride or not? And you're so phenomenal. And Jake said, when I invited him on a couple days ago, he said, you have to watch the movie because it's very important to me that you see how good Dakota is. And he was dead on. That's nice.

I think it's a really special performance.

Thank you.

It was so good that I bailed on Jake when you were shooting pool with the guy.

Yeah.

I was like—

Let's go.

That's what she should be doing. But I came back.

Yeah.

By the way, that would happen while we were filming.

That would happen while we were filming. And that's also the magic of Joe's process is that things are— nothing's set in stone.

No. It can go anywhere.

This movie could have gone in any direction.

That's right.

You know? It's a movie that— is meant to remind you of the stomachaches of those situations. Because I did feel that stomachache tension at times that I haven't felt in life in a while. Where you're like, oh, that thing that I thought was, for lack of a better word, mine, is not. And you just go like, oh, it's so— like, it's what makes love so brutal. And even if you're in a long-term relationship, you think it's forever.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden you realize, like, oh, everything could change.

And you just go, Like, oh, well, and social scientists have known, behavioral economics know that we have a loss bias, right? So if you watch people bet and you phrase something in a way that they're gonna lose, they will do illogical betting, right? They'll do illogical trading.

Well, explain what that means. I don't get it.

So like, if you position like you have a 50% chance of winning this, okay, and then you do the experiment versus you go, you have a 50% chance of losing that. Just them hearing the word losing versus— now it's all the same, right? Yeah. It's 50%. But people will overwhelmingly not participate in something that they have a 50% chance of losing. But they will participate overwhelmingly if they have a 50% chance of winning. And then they get way more complex than that. But you can see people's behavior become quite illogical based on this loss bias. So it's like, that's what's happening. You have this person— how many times have you broken up with somebody and you were so certain, and then you're driving home from their apartment and you're like, oh my God, I think that might be the love of my life. It's just like, I've lost it.

Yes, totally.

I have no sense of how I feel about the person.

Yeah.

So I want to air this experience you and I had, Jake, and I'm mostly curious if you've repeated it as many times as I have. So the last time we did one of our hikes— and for people who don't know, um, our friendship is hikes. We, we always do hikes together. And then last year we decided, like, let's fucking walk all the way over the mountain and then end it at Capital Grille and have, like, a king's fucking lunch.

I can't wait for our next one.

Oh, me too. It was like a 3.5-hour hike.

So fun.

We start the hike. This is the part I tell to everyone. We start the hike, and within 12 minutes of walking, we have 60 different conversations going. And I go, hold on, hold on. We're like, we are fucking all over the map.

Jumping around.

And then you said, you just looked at me and you go, dude, let's fucking ADHD out on this. Let's not police ourselves at all. And it was like this weird, like, should we? Like, it was a commitment. Commitment. And I go, yeah, let's let it rip. And we were like, well, space, relationships, um, taxes, fucking gay rights, anything, anything in the universe, brother, all at once.

That's a dark gray. Thoughts on it? That's right.

We never stopped talking for 3 and a half hours. It was so chaotic and it was euphoric.

Yeah.

And I've never had that explicit conversation with somebody where we go, let's put the pedal to the metal on this ADHD thing. Have you repeated that? Was that as impact— do you remember that?

I do remember it, but no, I didn't. I haven't repeated it because I felt like that's just part of our walks now. Yeah, but like, it's funny doing this because I, I'm constantly getting myself to just literally while you're talking mid-sentence at times, I'm like, I just want to scream, interrupt you. Because when we hike, we are allowed to act in such animal behavior that you'll be like, oh, you know, I was just thinking about something about Nashville and I want to learn literally go like, puparisa, what kind of— or you see a red shirt on somebody and you go like, oh, really? What I want to get into is those crop top shirts in this new era without the stomachs for them.

Yeah.

And it's like, what world?

The guy opened his door like, forget what I don't know. You're about to tell me about being molested.

Oh my God.

This guy's opened his door.

And then, but you're allowed to go from that to cricket being the newest. Like, you just go like, oh my God. But I've had many times in this conversation where I've been looking out the window and had to go, don't talk.

That's why I love this. It's like, there's so much going on. We're delivering food, there's cameras to operate, I'm driving. I'm also trying to like have some arc to this.

I have been leaning into letting the ADHD rip these days.

So it's funny because I'm always on the inside of the ADHD explosion, but my daughter is pretty ADHD and she has a best friend who's the most ADHD, and I watch them out the window hanging out in the backyard, and I'm like, how are they hearing each other? They're both talking as fast and as loud as they can at the same time, but they are getting it.

Yeah, it's mania.

It's just— It looks crazy if you're not on the inside of it. Dakota, do you have any— have you self-diagnosed any conditions based on your Instagram algorithm?

Listen, I see all of them.

They're all there for the taking.

I think that I actually don't think that I have I don't have any of them. I think that I— but I've observed that now I'm like watching TV and doing something on my phone at the same time, and I'm like, okay, that is a little something that is one of the, you know.

It was an accidental blessing watching the movie last night, which is I couldn't get— of course, all these screen links, they're impossible to get working, right?

I know, I know.

So it wouldn't work on my app, and so ultimately I gotta put it on my phone and then I gotta throw it. I think I just passed our thing. I gotta throw it.

And then you can't— you have to AirPlay. You can't be on your phone.

It was now this big on my huge theater screen. I was trying so hard. But what that did is, like, normally I would have my notes open to write down shit I want to remember to say about the movie when I talk to you, but I couldn't have that open 'cause it was screen mirroring.

But one thing I like about you, Dakota, going to the other thing, is I don't think Dakota's buying into this era as much as I would expect a woman in her early 30s to be buying into stuff, such as, like, the million diagnoses and that. Dakota's got some old school to her.

Yeah. Well, her best friend's Kurt Russell. She's gonna have some shit. Libertarian views.

It was— it's a, it's a really refreshing hang, especially it's like a 48-year-old dude where I'd go like, you know, I'm not in AA or anything like that, but I'd go like, I'm not drinking tonight. And she'd be like, oh, why? And she's like, are you in recovery? I'd go, no. Then she'd go, then why not? She's like, what is with all these men going, I'm not having a drink tonight? She's like, where'd I ball?

I was going on dates and it became like a joke that every time I would go on a date with a guy and they would would go like, oh, I quit drinking. I was like, oh, okay, like, are you, you know, problematic?

Like, I do think about these diagnoses though, in terms of the ADHD and all this madness. Yeah, that if I did all the tests as a kid, I think I would have been diagnosed with everything. They might have put me in a cage if I got tested the way kids are being tested right now.

Well, you'd be heavily medicated, probably.

Oh sure, they would euthanize me.

I think the hesitation to it, like, A, yes, people are diagnosing themselves with shit they don't have. They've not been diagnosed by Great. True. And I think the main concern is, like, everyone's just gonna be using all this as a huge excuse all the time.

That's exactly right. That's the fear.

And I get it. That's Monica's fear. Like, we argue about this all the time.

Yeah.

And I'm like, it's not about an excuse. It's about, like, oh, I have this thing, so what things am I gonna be more prone to experience? Like the rejection sensitivity. Okay. So if I'm feeling that rejection, I go, well, that's that fucking stupid thing that's just a part of ADHD. It just helps you right-size it. these moments. And then also you go, oh, it turns out people, they do better if they use this thing. Or if you have the time thing, like, there's ways, there's tools out there. It's like, I don't want to know about it so I can tell people, like, sorry, I'm 3 hours late, I have ADHD. Sorry you didn't get your fucking— your hamburgers or your fish. I just want to know, for me, like, are there hacks? And then as someone who has a kid that seems to trend that way, is there any hacks that I can help her with?

But here's the other side that I'm sure Monica You guys have fought about a bunch.

Yeah.

Argued about, and Dakota knows both opinions on it. I was doing my podcast, and we had a caller call in who was chronically late.

Mm-hmm.

And Gareth and I, you know, just decided to roast her.

Sure. Okay, sure. You have that freedom on your show, and I'm a little envious of it.

Yes, but that's what it is.

You know, it's—

you call in, and we try to give you advice. We do the best we can, but nothing is planned. So when I heard somebody's late— lateness drives me nuts. Now, a couple minutes here and there, fine.

Uh-huh.

But 40 minutes late? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're like, whoa. And the backlash of— I think the term they were using was like time blindness. Time blindness.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where I'm like, it's a little extreme, but I'm like, I read that.

They were like, you gotta think, man, she's time blind. And I'm like, wait, time blind? Like, like, so if you're really bad at time, like, then— so I get it, you're really bad at it, but then you've got to figure it out. Then you've got to do more alarms. You got like— agreed. My dad was colorblind, right? So that doesn't mean you get to go like, well, I'm allowed to just fuck up colors or blow through red lights because they weren't green. You're like, I get it, but then you need to figure out how we see colors so we can all communicate and live together.

I agree, I agree. But it's like, okay, so what's the best technique for people? The way I heard, like Trevor Noah, right? He's an incredibly intelligent person and he identifies as having ADHD and he has that time blindness.

He does.

And the way he described it, which I buy, he's like, when you tell me something's at 4 o'clock, it's not now. And everything for me is either now or not now. And I'm like, that's wild. And I kind of understand that. And guess what? I kind of observe it in my wife.

Oh, that's interesting.

Which is like, there's now and not now. Those are the categories she can juggle. And that's interesting. And yeah, there's ways around that or ways to combat it.

But I think that is a hard thing you deal with, but you're still not allowed to be late.

No, agreed. It's like none of it should be in—

Yeah, it's interesting. You gotta set an alarm now, and then one a minute from now, which is not now, then 5 minutes from now.

Yeah. And then an hour from now. Isn't it great that's how their clocks were? It just said like, now. And now.

I've heard about 2 people now that don't have thoughts in their head or pictures in their head.

No way!

Can't imagine anything. No, no, like it's a thing.

Oh, what do you mean?

They can't like visualize anything in their mind. There's no loop in their mind, which is like so unimaginable. 'Cause that's my whole life.

So they can't— they— if you say like, we're thinking about doing—

They're like, I know what an apple is, but I cannot get an apple into my brain. So what an apple looks like— I know it's round, I know it's like red, but I can't— like, I don't see— when I say apple, I don't see an apple in my brain.

What about the face blindness?

And that's— yes, I feel like I weirdly have touch of it.

One touch of face blindness.

Of face blindness. One touch of face blindness.

I don't have it at all, but I was having dinner with a guy who had it. It's the first time I ever heard about it. I said, like, so when I say Mickey Mouse, can you picture Mickey Mouse in your head? And he's like, no, but I know his ears. Or— That's what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about. That's what these people have. Weird!

Right? And this guy was a producer. I'm like, you're dealing with people that you should definitely recognize. And he's like, I gotta do, like, I can do hair. Like, I can kind of memorize hair. But there was a 60 Minutes on face blindness that I happened to watch. And I will say they did this cool thing, which is they put 10 faces on the screen and they were upside down. They were pointing out how actually how tenuous our grasp on facial recognition is.

Right.

And when they put them upside down, I could get like 3 of the 10.

Crazy.

And guys, it was Oprah, Tom Cruise. It was like the 10 most famous people in the world. And then I a little bit went like, oh, it's not as— you think of it as so easy. But yeah, if you flip them upside down, you can't get it.

I have pretty bad eyesight. Like, I have a pretty strong prescription, but I didn't wear contacts for a long time, and I would just kind of take my glasses on and off. So I think for many years I would go around like kind of not really being able to see, like Monica does.

Yes, right. Yes, yes. She misses everything. Yeah.

And so I would question like, is it— is that that person? Like, you know, it would— it was sort of because I couldn't totally see. And then I think I've even carried it with me A bit as I now wear contacts and can see normally.

Were you not wearing glasses because you didn't like how you looked in them, or you didn't want to deal with losing them or carrying them?

No, I didn't mind how I looked or anything like that, but I got used to everything being a little bit blurred that when I would put them on outside, like on a day like today, I was like, this is too much.

This is way too much.

I was like, it's way too bright, it's too clear. I was like, oh my God. So that took some— that took some getting used to. Real turning for me was I had met Shaquille O'Neal a few times.

Uh-huh.

Great start of a story.

And I was at an event, and it was not a huge room, and he wasn't that far from me. And I was with my agent, Hanley, and I said, I was like, Hanley, is that Shaq? And he was like—

If you're asking, you're crazy. Yeah.

He was like, yes, it is. And what's going on? And I was like, I can't tell.

Totally.

That's how bad it had gotten.

I could see the shape.

but I was confirming that it was Shaq.

You could only see the 7'3 of it all.

Yes!

I was just like, wait, that's Shaq, right? And he was like, are you okay?

You need to get your eyes checked.

And so I was like, it's time to be wearing some sort of glasses or contacts full-time.

I can safely say you're the only human being in the last 20 years who's confused about whether— I know! I remember one time we were on the grid at the Austin Grand Prix, the Formula 1 race, and we are at one end. I mean, we are literally 3 1,300 feet away, and I can see everyone in the audience who's now staring at grid row because you've got the drivers there, you've got celebrities down there, and then everyone's attention is just way down there. And then I look 1,300 feet away and I say to Kristen, oh yeah, Shaquille O'Neal's here. And I'm like, this motherfucker can't hide from a quarter mile away in a sea of people.

I knew it was him. I was just making sure.

But that's got to be the hardest part about being a big NBA player.

Yeah.

Like, there's no escape ever. No.

No hiding. Vince Vaughn too. No hiding. Yeah, he'll never have a perfect baseball hat on. Crazy. And how tall— we were together recently in Miami with Vince Vaughn, to be clear, with Vince Vaughn, and he is what, 6'5? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so distinct. Yeah, but totally, it's as if he's 7'2. Yeah, right. Yeah, we're walking because Dax is like 6'3, right? I'm— I don't know, I say 6'4. Yeah, I say I'm 6'4, but I'm like 5'10. Yeah, Vince's— his head was a head above everyone's.

Everyone sees him.

Well, we went out to dinner with him because the guy was shooting Bad Monkey, and we were there first at the restaurant, and then when we were leaving, he's like, oh, are you guys gonna walk? And we're like, yeah, we walked here and we're gonna walk back. It was like a mile and a half walk or something. He goes, oh, I love— I love walking. Can I walk with you guys? And, and at the time, that didn't make sense, that whole exchange. Like, I love walking, can I walk with you guys? And then, yeah, we walked a mile and a half with him. And when I say 100% of people on, on planet Earth know who Vince Vaughn is, 100%. 100% of people were walking by. And when he peeled off, I let out this gasp of air, and I said to Aaron, I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky I never got that famous. I am just the right amount of famous.

So his was—

Get a restaurant. I got the table that you needed to get. And then only 1 in 20 people on the walk home knew who I was. And I was just like, dude, that's, um, I don't know what he goes through. That's so claustrophobic. And yeah, the man can't walk. If he was by himself, he'd just get murdered by all the attention. I got a lot of gratitude.

He was on a run for a period when I was first coming up.

Was he one of your guys or no?

Oh, to such a degree.

Yeah, same. Oh, in Chicago.

Yeah, but Vince Vaughn's swingers, then the way he was doing comedies like Old School.

Yeah.

The way he was riffing, the tone he had where he was such a dick and so funny.

And hot. That was a weird— like, yeah, like we were in a paradigm where all comedians that were white in movies had to be schlubby and goofy and no one liked them. That was the gimmick. And you're like, oh, this dude fucks.

Yeah.

And he's funny as hell and gorgeous.

Like, those guys always end up like Chevy Chase then, where they're like—

They all tune into being good looking.

Yeah, but they're just— it's like, it's fine. But for me, it was like, it was never the speed that I also thought was really funny.

Yeah.

When Vince Vaughn got cooking, I'd be like, you know, a guy like Will Ferrell, who's obviously so funny.

Yes.

I'm like, man, you could throw Vince Vaughn in Maid and he's awesome. In Swingers, he's awesome. Next to Will Ferrell, where they're doing an ice skating movie He's awesome.

Uh-huh. Yeah.

It was like everything I liked. Like, who are actors that you saw that you're like, that's somebody who's doing it in a way I like?

There was always like a reference point to Jodie Foster just because she also started so young and then continued. And it's definitely somebody that I look to of, you know, having a similar path as me.

Who did you like want to be? Like, who did— like, I look at things, I'm like, God, if I was young.

Cameron Diaz.

Oh, great, great, great, great, great, great.

Yeah, I loved—

That's how I felt about Vince Vaughn.

Yeah, just thought she was my best friend's wedding. Oh my God.

And by the way, same thing as Vince, she's like hysterical and fucking gorgeous.

It's so pretty, so good. Like, My Best Friend's Wedding is still like one of my favorite movies in the whole world.

And she'll look goofy. She does.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, when I was— I wanted to—

I wanted to be I never would have guessed that.

And you know, she bought weed off of Snoop Dogg in high school.

Yes. Yeah, I remember the first time I met her.

Where was it?

It was, um, at the SAG Awards when I was nominated for IMC. We were both nominated in the same category for IMC. I was like 7.

That's cool.

And I remember meeting her.

Um, it'd be so weird to be nominated against your hero. I know.

I was like, oh my God, I love you.

I was working with Sean Penn.

I mean, that was my first movie, you know.

It was in a big part opposite a wild guy. Yes.

He stayed in character a lot of the time and would not stick to the script and would really, like, improvise a lot. And it was definitely my first lesson of, like, oh, being an actor is not just learning your lines. You have to listen. You know what I mean? Like, it was like right away, I was like, oh.

I have to be here.

I have to be here. I had to respond.

What an amazing thing to learn as a kid. You're working against one of the veteran actors actors who's a little method and improvising. One of the hard things I have about working with certain kids is I never want to do something that's a negative experience for them, but I don't feel that way with adults. Where if I'm doing a scene and I'm going to improvise and they get lost, I'm like, then you're in the wrong job, homeboy. But if it's a 10-year-old kid, my real thought is like, you're in the wrong job, homeboy.

You're 10.

But to be at that age and be aware enough to That's what this game is.

Yes.

And in order to play it, if he's asking me a question, I can't look off camera and go, what's this fucking guy talking about? Yeah, no.

There's things you don't think of when you're working with kids. Like, for Zathura, we did the table read, and the little boy, Jonah Bobo, who's so fucking cute, at the table read, he never looked at his script once, right? And I remember saying to his mom, wow, he's already off book. And she goes, he can't read.

That's what you're all talking about. That's incredible.

Yeah, it never crossed my mind. He had to memorize the whole movie for the table read.

I'm gonna start looking around, though, at certain actors who are memorized and be like, I bet you can't read. You're not looking at the script enough, honey. You can't read.

I had to do a table read for I Am Sam before I got the part. I had to sit there with everyone. Michelle was talking to me about it the other day, Michelle Pfeiffer, 'cause she was there. And she was like, you just sat there by yourself, on your own, in the chair with your scripts? That's crazy. She was like, you were so little, it was crazy.

That's crazy.

Yep.

Do you feel like you've got a shorthand when you're in scenes with little kids?

It's interesting because I definitely do. I think for me, I feel like I can recognize pretty quickly whether this is—

For them or not?

For them or not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Because I know what it feels like for it to be really for you.

Yes.

Totally right. Listen, whether people believe me or not, I love kids. that I've had, and I wouldn't trade a second of it. Like, getting to do what I know was what I was meant to do for so long has just given me, like, so many memories and esteem and, like, so much. There's obviously been, you know, difficult things, of course, but I wouldn't trade it. So I think I can definitely tell when it's for someone or not.

Yeah.

Totally.

By the way, at any age.

Yeah.

Totally. But you can also feel it with an adult where, you know, like, this used to be me. It used to be for you. It's not for you anymore.

You thought this was gonna be something different than it is.

That's exactly right.

And I don't think you actually like what it is because it's not all those things that you thought it was.

You love the fantasy of this, but you don't love the job.

And so for me, with younger actors that I'm working with, if I can sense that somebody would rather be doing something else, I'm like, then you should go do something else. And then you work with kids who you're like, oh, you really—

You're good at this.

Yeah, totally.

And that's great.

I've probably already told you this story, Jake, but, um, and he, he would not mind me saying this, but, um, I was directing Tom Arnold in Hit and Run, and like, I'm listening to him on his mic between takes, you know. He's like, I fucking want to fucking— where is it? He's got to like throw a ball through the back of a van window or whatever the thing's going on. And we're so close, I, I walk up to him, we're in between takes, and I go, how long have you hated action? And he goes, a long time, buddy. A long time.

So funny.

A long time.

Well, that, that's true.

Again, this is not like some phony way of bringing it back to the movie, but that's what this movie did do for me, where it was like the bare-bones experience of making a movie just with people who are there because they want to be there.

Um, last career question for you, Dakota. Because I doubt any of us in this car will have the experience. Once Upon a Time is Erin and I. Erin and I have watched Once Upon a Time probably 7 times together. Oh, we love it. It's so fucking good.

Oh, my God.

What was your character? She was at the ranch.

Squeaky. Squeaky.

Yes.

Squeaky Fromme.

Well, yeah, what's the Tarantino experience?

Oh, my God. I mean, it was like a real dream for me to work with him.

Yeah.

Had to audition, and I had written him a note, and then he asked me to audition. I mean, I was more nervous than I had ever been doing anything. Like, literally shaking like a leaf. I mean, I was so nervous, but really prepared. I mean, like, hardcore prepared. More than I, like, ever have for anything for this part.

I think there's a good chance he's gonna be watching it this week.

Oh, good! Oh, good! I walked into the audition, and he reads the scene with you.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And that honestly actually put me so at ease, 'cause then it was like we were making—

The thing.

The thing. It wasn't like I was being sat— people were sitting and judging me, whatever. Anyway, so we had this, like, great scene, experience in the audition. And then I got the part, and I think it was the happiest I'd ever been to get anything in my life.

Oh, that's lovely.

And, um, it was the greatest version of making a movie. He is somebody that, like, loves making movies, loves the tradition of it, the celebration of it, the camaraderie of it. Like, he's just so— he was like, yeah, I'd like to do another take because I just like making movies with you. You know, like little stuff, like little things like that where you're just like, he just loves it. And so getting to be around Being a part of that was, yeah, really special.

Yeah.

Not only would I work for free, obviously, for him, I would pay a very handsome fee to be on that. I would pay. Yeah. Me too.

Me too.

I would have done anything.

Guys, thank you.

Thank you.

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