Transcript of #608 - Jim Norton

Today's guest is his first time on the podcast. He's a legendary standup comedian and host. He helped give me my start in and getting on the airwaves. He has a new special on YouTube called Unconceivable and his own podcast called Jim Norton can't save you. Today's guest is the one of one Mr. Jim Norton. Well, I was just telling you we can get started. You want to.

Yeah, whatever you want.

Yeah, yeah, I was just telling you that I feel like, yeah, you can move it around.

All right. Just let me know if I'm off mic a little bit. I'm obsessed with that too, with sound. Like when I'm interviewing somebody, if they're like they're off mic, I'm like, get the on them. How do you know?

Oh, I feel horrible. The other day I did and I did somebody's podcast and I chewed gum the whole time.

We've had that. Yeah, it happens.

But the fact that I did like I do it for a living, like.

How did I do that?

It every day, it still haunts me a little bit.

You chewed the gum?

Yeah. Just feel. Because I'm like, you know, we came, they came and we all put our time in, you know, just to be there and do it. And I frickin just like, you know, sometimes you show up and you just, you do the most bush league thing.

I'd like to ask them, did you notice it while it was happening and did you want to say something? Because we've had like we had Marin on one time and he was eating like oatmeal or something the whole time or chewing something. And the fans were furious and we're like, why didn't we just say something when he was eating? Sometimes when you're hosting you don't tell the person like, you're chewing gum, stop chewing gum.

Yeah, he should feel embarrassed.

You feel embarrassed.

Yeah.

But he still should have told you.

I mean, I've had instances where somebody whose mouth will be very dry. Oh, you know what I'm talking about.

Yes. That fucking sticky fruit roll up sound. Yeah.

And you know, all you can think of is the listeners being like this.

Dry, this pasty mouthed idiot. Yeah.

This fire survivor showing up and it's so true. Like it. But you can't sit over there and like baby bird, somebody some water.

But you want to say to them like, you want some water and then they don't. They're like, no. It's like when someone's breath stinks, you know, like you want piece of common noise. No, I'm good. You know, you're not good. Yeah, but so you know, we're trying to be courteous.

Yeah. You want me to pressure wash your face for a second? Like that's another thing you could offer them.

But you see, like how you just said that now I'm making sure I'm opening my water. People have to be self aware too. Like anybody who's doing something if. If your mouth is pasty and dry and sticky and sounds like shit, you should be aware of it. You have ears. Yeah. Yeah.

And then that you just realize, oh, that person is offline. They are just not. They don't know what's going in. Or sometimes it'll be. A woman's lipstick is a little thick and it kind of just crack.

Yes. A little pop. Yeah. That stuff drives me crazy. I pick up on. And I sniffle a lot. I fucking like, I'm. I. I'm a noisy, uncomfortable to be around. Fucking like, I get it. So I have no right to tell other people, but like, I'm always clear. Clear my throat. It's really horrible.

Yeah, well, as we get older too, it's just like, you're just like kind of a. You're just hoping that every now and then you. You're a little bit of the semblance of what you once were.

Yeah. Oh, no, I've given up on that. I. I've thrown in the towel. I will never again be what I once was. And I was only mediocre to begin with. So I went from mediocre to kind of shitty. But it's funny, like, I'm so self conscious about how I look. And my wife is like, oh, you look fine. And I got a text from Gutfeld the other night, a random text. He's like, hey, man, I saw you on that Kill Tony thing. That's a good look for you. That's a good weight for you, like. And so people are telling me I look okay, but I'm like, I don't feel okay. I feel fat and just mushy and my neck is fat. I just dropped 20 pounds.

Oh, you want to drop? Well, it's funny because I saw you last time, I was like, man, Jim, you kind of look. I feel like you have looked better as you gotten older, kind of as you've grown more an adult.

Thank you. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I look back on my old pictures. I'm not impressed with them either. So I can't go. Like, I want to get back to Those days, it's like, rush. Rush back to what? You know what I mean?

Do you ever feel like. Because sometimes comedians are so uncomfortable, and I was just. I was watching you have a. You have a new special that's on YouTube. Inconceivable, right. And it's so funny because I've thought of things being inconceivable before, but to go as far to be, like, unconceivable, like, I should never even have been, like, contemplated, fuck, that's intense, dude. Because I think at the depth of some comedians and artists and not. Not trying to sound like, like, we're special, but we're fucked up. There's something a little wrong with a lot of people in the world.

Yeah.

And we choose to try to put it out there sometimes. All artists do. Even strippers. I think they do that in their way. But, like. Like, there's something like, God, I should never even have done been here.

Well, the reason I named it that, honestly, people thought I. I up and spelled it wrong, but I didn't. It's unconceivable on purpose. It's an old way of saying it. It's actually technically correct in the English language. But it was also, like, a nod to my wife, who is, you know, cannot conceive, obviously. So it was awesome.

Gotten that far through it.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

It was part of about 20 minutes in.

Oh, okay. Yeah, Yeah. I talk about her. It was. It was part. Part of. It's about her being not able to conceive. That was kind of why I called it unconceivable.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I thought. I guess I just took that somewhere in it just because you've always kind of operated on the fringes of, like, depravity or what's okay in the world sort of in your own space. Is that okay to say that?

Oh, yeah. It's 100% accurate. But if it was about me and my existence, I would have called it. Should have been a load and a sock. That's what I would have named it. Yeah.

It should have been a practice round. Yeah. I should have been. Like, I should. Yeah. Like, I should not have been in the gun.

No, no, no. My father should have wiped me out of his belly button with a Dunkin Donuts napkin. Sh.

Remember the Dunkin Donuts, dude, you turned me onto that.

Yeah, the.

The iced coffee. Cold coffee.

Cold. What do they call cold coffee? Yeah. Her name is Edna Faust. And I remember we loved them, so the joy we got from them.

You Gave me that joy, dude. And I've showed that over the years. We've had people sitting here and I'm like, you gotta see this.

Because the thing that's amazing about Edna is, is was her. Her deductive reasoning was that she knew that like iced coffee, a cold coffee, like she's just watch go through the clues as to what to call it is why I love her so much.

Yeah, drop it real quick because I also want to tell you, Dutch came to one of my shows one time.

You met Dutch?

I met him, Dutch and Smith. What's his last.

Dutch. What do you.

Smith. There you go.

A coffee shop in Shamokin is closed following an arson over the weekend. Definitely going to miss it. No doubt about it. A teenager is charged with stolen inside the restaurant on Saturday night. Shamokin police officer Ray Psycho says no one was hurt, but the place has extensive damage. Psycho says the fire was started inside the women's bathroom. The toilet paper dispenser was lit on fire and within about a minute the entire place was filled up with smoke.

The mother did explain that she's recently been put on new medication, but as far as for what reason, we're unsure right now.

The 13 committed to setting the fire is currently at a juvenile detention center. Many people who live in Shamokin are upset that Dunkin Donuts is closed. Now I have to rely on myself to go to maybe a turkey or.

Something where I don't like their donuts. I rather the donuts at Dunkin Donuts.

And I'm kind of dealing with it.

But I really miss Dunkin Donuts.

I go there every day.

I get a chicken, bacon, croissant, coffee, powerade. If I'm dehydrated. I sit there all the time. If I have any, like, legal work.

That I need to do, I go there, I meet with my attorneys there. I'm gonna miss that place when it eventually that don't open up. And a lot of my friends go in there, get the cold coffee. What iced coffee, I guess it's called. Oh, there she goes. She figures it out. She makes she knows. Edna Faust, unsolved mystery. She gets to it. And Dutch Smith doing his legal work. I mean there really is. And by the way, I hate to bum the podcast vibe out, but the first woman at Turkey held Donuts, she passed away. No, I'm almost positive we did a deep dive on her. And I do think that unfortunately she is no longer with us.

God, she seemed like the most healthy of the three of them.

I thought she did too. She was definitely the one I was. If I had to be attracted to one of the three, it would have been. Faust was a close second.

Yeah, you could play Faust in like a biopic one day.

I would love to. Brian Dennehy right now has her, but I think.

Oh, but Dutch Smith came out to a show, dude, he's doing great now, so. But that was amazing, bro. But yeah, you put me onto this and I. And I've like shared it with so many people over the years, so thank you.

Dude, it was such a bizarre. I remember he was on with myself and was on Opie and Jim and I think that was the show. And yeah, we would play all these weird clips and once in a while you find one. It's like, that's a gem. Yeah, that's a gem. But I never heard. I never had any follow about Edna Faust. I'm dying to know how she is because I think she's the best.

Yeah, let's put it. We'll put it out on all call. Hopefully somebody can send something in, man. And we'll see if we can get a little follow up. The Faust over there outside of Turkey Hill and Dunkin Donuts and Shamokin, they've.

Rebuilt it, by the way.

Oh, they have.

I have. We did follow up. They have rebuilt the Dunkin Donuts and it's a big thing in Shamokin. I was gonna stop in there going to a gig one time, but I'm like, no, I can't. I just, I. I cared while I was on the air and then as soon as I was in the car. Shemon, I'm not stopping.

Yeah, it is funny how you make little plans like, oh, I gotta be. And then things come along. You're like, nah, let's just keep hitting. Stay on the road.

Stay on the road. It was fun in theory. It was fun to think about and to talk about. But now that I'm going to be 25 minutes out of my way that way and then 25 minutes on my way there, I'm not doing this. Yeah, them.

Yeah, them. Yeah, them. Dude, I. Yeah. So unconceivable was your wife. Because your wife can't conceive you're married now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

And do you feel like you kind of g. Like, what was it like? Is like that was your first marriage.

My. Yeah. Hope my first and hopefully my only. Yeah. I only did it because we. When she came into the. She was having a hard time. So we did a 90 day fiance visa to get her in. So we got married 90 days after she came in. Otherwise I would have just dated. But it's okay. You fight different when you're married because you can't just go. You get out like you're there. So you got to resolve it faster.

Let's go back to your corner kind of.

Got to go back to your corner kind of. I used to have three and four. Like, I would fight with girlfriends and then they would leave and then for three or four days I would just have hookers come over. Like, it really was an ugly scene. And this is a lot, a lot easier, A lot cleaner. Yeah.

Does this feel easier? Kind of like, does it feel like you kind of escape? Because, I mean, I got like a lot of, I think, commitment issues and stuff like that. And I just feel like, man, at some point I got to escape. Like, not use marriages and escape. But I would love to not be kind of trapped just in this stupid circle that I get in sometimes.

Yeah, it's like, it's almost like it's. It's a lonely spiral too. Like, I forget, like, whenever I get pissed at her, I'm like, yeah, but I was really depressed when I was single. Like, I wasn't happy when I was single. I was miserable. I hated being alive. So if I fight with her and I'm like, this kind of sucks. I'm like, yeah, but it's not. Not. It's me. I'm the problem. Because if I'm single, I'm even worse than I am right now. So, no, I don't want to. I like being married. I just. Sometimes when you think I'm married, you're like, life is over. But I'd prefer this. Yeah. Yeah.

At least you have someone to be there with you in your life. You're like. And you kind of have a donkey to pin the tail. And you're like, yeah, the white.

Yeah, her. What is she? What?

Yeah.

If there's things are wrong, my wife. It's also a good excuse though, like, ah, nah, my wife's not feeling well. I gotta go home and see my wife. Like, there's little built in things that are kind of advantages that I. I didn't see. And I'm glad I did it because if I didn't do it, I would still be running in the same. That's why I fattened up. Because I literally am not doing the same things I used to do on the road to get like those little mini highs you get, you know, Now I'm just in the hotel Room alone. And what do you do? You order food at 2 o' clock in the morning instead of having somebody come over. Yeah, it's not as fun.

So your. And your wife is. Your wife is trans?

Yes.

Transgender.

Yes.

Transgender, yes. Okay. And so what does transgender mean exactly? Because people use the term all the time, and sorry to go to, like, such rudimentary stuff, but it means a man and a woman.

Yeah. Like you born in a male body. And, you know, they have never. They can't say exactly medically what makes a person transgender. That's why there's so much arguing about. It's up to speculation. Some people like, ah, you're just a crazy guy in a dress. And other people like, no, you're. You're born this way. But they can't tell you medically exactly what it is in the brain. But, yeah, she definitely was born in a male body, but if you talk to her for five minutes, you know, that's a woman's brain. But I don't. I would lose the argument in court. I don't have the argument in court. You know, she definitely does not have a vagina. Yeah. You know. No, she's not at all.

Okay, you look. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It's not even a penis. It's a. Oh, yeah, definitely. Wow.

Were you able to discern over time why you liked something so unique? Kind of like, is that a way to ask it?

Yeah, you ask whatever you want. I mean, I. I don't know. Like, it's one of those things where, when it comes to sexuality and attraction, what makes a person like what they like? I don't have the answer to that. It's. It's a. It's a. It's a pull. It's like you. You don't choose what direction you're going to get pulled in. Sometimes, like, for me, attraction has never been, like, I'm going to go over there and, like, that it's going to be. Something hits me and I kind of like, lock into it and I feel it and it pulls me that way, you know?

I mean, but I kind of.

In a way. Yeah, kind of. Yes, yes. But the living art one that you can really just, you know, slap against your face. Yeah. Art you can sit on.

Dang. Do you ever go places now?

Do you have.

Say, if you are dating someone who's trans, do they ask questions like, why do you prefer this? Or is that like, something you kind of have to make clear to them a certain way so that they feel okay?

Is that a. I think it's like any other relationship. It's like, in bed, sexually, like. Or not fudgeing or that type of stuff.

No, I think even just like, on a personal person to person basis, like, do I seem like a trophy to you, or do I seem like something like a novelty or like a nice piece of jewelry to, like, you know, this artistic collection piece? Or do I. Do you really love me because of who I am?

Yes. And I think that any. Any person. Any person has to, like, you know, as a guy with money, you have to wonder, hey, does this woman like me because of who I am or because I have money? And with her, she could be like, is it because I'm transgender that he wants a transgender? I think that. But with any person, you kind of like, you just. You know what somebody's motives are after a while. Yeah. And if you're with someone as a trophy, like, if I'm just like, hey. I mean, we've been on and off for, like, I mean, back together since 2019, so six years. And we were a year and a half before then. So by this point, after seven or eight years, you know what a person, like, I was like, well, does she like me? Does she like me because I have money? But there's a lot of guys that have money, and there's a lot of trans people. So if that's all we wanted, we could easily go out and find somebody else who fit that criteria. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. She's beautiful.

Well, thank you.

Yeah. And you see, you guys have lived together, huh?

We live together. I put her up. She. Immigration was very slow. It was just one of those things where she had something she had to get fixed, and we did. We did it right. But it's just, you know, it's a slow process. So while she was waiting, I moved her to Montreal, and I would drive up and see her, and I wound up spending the whole pandemic there. I drove up, so if they're going to close the Canadian border. So I drove up one day after the radio show, and I just stayed for 15 months. I was out of the US for 15 months. It was crazy doing the radio show from there, just live. It's my first time living with anyone, and it was in the pandemic in a one bedroom in Montreal.

Oh, my God.

I'm like, if we can do this, I can make this work. Like, if we can. Because Canada was even panicky more than the US about COVID You know, 8 o' clock curfew. You know, they were really crazy up there about it. So I'm like, if we can make it through this, we can be okay, you know, in New York and having our lives together.

So was that kind of a moment for you? Were like, okay, this is a big thing that I was able to do. And that gave you the. Because other, like, sometimes I'm a question, like, how do I get to those next places? I think when you're kind of like, you know, I'm not 40s, I'm single, so it's like, you're like, will I ever get there? You know, what's really gonna change? Was that, like, a thing that really made it kind of different for you?

Yeah, that. That made it like, okay, this is a real thing. Like, I had never done that with any. Anybody in the States, but we were forced to, because if I came back to the States once the border was closed, I would not have been allowed back into Canada. So I had to choose between, like, being in New York or my life with her, like, leaving her alone up there for. We didn't know for how long. So it was kind of like a loaded gun to your head, like, you're here, or it's over. And doing that. I was just so grateful to be with her and so, like, grateful to actually have a chance. It was like a test run. You got to do a test run and see, like, do I want to be with this person? And we got along, like, way better than I would have thought. And so life here is fairly easy compared to that.

Wow.

But easy in a married way. Like, everything people told me about marriage is true. Yeah. Yeah. Sucks. I mean, you know, you got to answer to somebody. Somebody's in your space. Somebody is like, the shit I hang on the walls. Like, I don't like answering to a person. Nobody does. No.

Well, I think it's one of the reasons, especially, like, with comedy, you just work for yourself. It's just you up there. There's nobody that's. Tell the crowd tells you it's fine. I'll accept it from a group. I'm not taking it from one person.

Yeah.

You know, it's like. It's a total space of complete control.

Yeah. And it's very, like. I like the fact, too, that, like, when you're with someone. Can we talk about our lives on stage? So, like, I've been with women who got so angry at me for the things I said about our personal life, and she. She doesn't care at all, which I love. She loves the stuff I talk about, like, our personal life. No matter how. How embarrassing it is or how personal it is or how intimate, she doesn't care. She's like, great. Do whatever you want to do. She doesn't give a. Yeah, I guess.

If you're cuddling up at night. I mean, both. There's. People have wieners in the bed.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have a wiener, you know? Yeah, you don't. You don't spend 100 grand on immigration lawyers for a dick smaller than yours.

Oh, damn. That's a good point. Oh, yeah. Tara fed Trump, huh?

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, she'll like that. A lot of people get mad. Why does he talk about her genitals? Shut up. Up.

Do you notice other men? Like, if you're around other guys, do you think there's, like, a lot of curious guys who are into that universe that are afraid to talk about it?

Yeah. They ask questions. I never mind, though. Like, I'm not again. And that's why I joke about her the way I do, because she's unbendable with that. She doesn't care, and I don't. I couldn't have married a fragile personality.

No, not you. No. You've always been very your own way and, like, aggressively your own way, but also in a kind of.

Of.

I'm okay with where I'm at.

Yes.

You've never been in this apologetic way about yourself.

No. And you can't win. Like, you know, I want. You want people to be respectful to your. Your partner when you introduce them, and everybody's been nice, and you don't want people to be dicks, But I don't care what people think. Like, you. You can't live your life and care what other people think. I have fun with her. She's my favorite person. Like, she's the person I should have married. Like. And do I get guys that are kind of curious? Yes. And I get a tremendous amount of messages from people who are like, hey, man, I'm really glad you talked about that, because I. And I don't talk about it in some serious. Like, nobody wants to be scolded. Nobody wants to be fudgeing, lectured. Yeah. Just be with whoever you like. Like, you know, I mean, and if you're worried about what other people think and you live your life for other people, you're a weak motherfucker. And then just deal with that fact about yourself.

Yeah. I've had moments in my life where I, like, didn't have certain girlfriends, I think, because I thought some of my friends wouldn't be impressed with them.

Maybe We've all been there. Yeah.

You know, it just bumps down when I look back at it at certain moments, and not like in a self pity type of way, like, I'm like. But it. When I look back, I'm like, man, I wish I'd. Because in some ways, I am my own person. But in ways like that, I think I. I don't know, I had some. I had some tough times with it, kind of.

But growing up, I think it's kind of common too. I mean, you know, I'm a guy in my 50s now, saying this, like, you know, I mean, coming up, when you're a real young guy, it's a little bit different. We're more worried about what other people are going to say about us and more like, what if the, like, you know, that whole. That whole tidal wave of disapproval from people, what are they gonna say? And after a while, you're like, I've been through it so many times, I just don't care.

Yes.

Like, you know, but I've had fighters even ask me, like, like, hey, bro, does she. Like, like. But asking legitimate, not trying to. Asking questions that they'd be afraid to ask publicly because they. People would think it was rude, but they're things that they wanted to know.

Yeah.

And I never mind answering that stuff. Yeah. It's not some giant sacred subject. You know, you just talk about it like you talk about anything else, you.

Know, it's so funny. I always think, like, I know you love the UFC and you and Matt. Sarah.

Matt, Sarah. Yeah.

I've had a show for about a decade now.

About eight or nine years.

Yeah.

UFC Unfiltered. Danny just called me one day. He goes, hey, we're doing a podcast. Matt's gonna do it. You wanna do it? I'm like, okay. He goes, all right. And that's how it was done.

So cool.

It was just a phone call, and I think it was 2016 we started.

And did he fight? He fought George St. Pierre a couple times, didn't he?

He took the title from St. Pierre. He's the last guy to beat St. Pierre. And then George beat him in the rematch and took the title back. But Matt. Matt is probably the most exactly how you think he's going to be guy I've ever known. He's 100% genuine. Like, there's no bullshit with Matt Serra. Like, if he likes you, he loves you. And if he doesn't like you, he can't pretend he's. He's one of those guys. Like, he can't pretend he likes somebody he doesn't like. I love him. I time with him. He's really funny.

That's awesome.

Very grounded guy. And fighters respect him. Like, when fighters call in because he's a legend, I mean, he did the impossible. It's the biggest underdog story in UFC history. So when they. When they come in, they all love talking to Matt. Like, you know, I mean, I'm just kind of there. Yeah. Like, they'll go, yeah, you. And then. But Matt, you know, so it's kind of humiliating every week. If you've ever worked with a legend, it's like, really, like, wow. I mean, like, you see the respect he gets from fighters. I'm happy to see. See it.

One thing that amazes me about ufc, like, I think I. There's a. There's a. Like, a symbioticness between. I feel like, fighters, comedians, strippers, even, like, of trying to show yourself to, like, trying to show something about you to be seen. Right. That's a little bit abnormal. Do you. Do you think that makes any sense? A little bit, like. Because I also feel like I relate to some of those people, like, on some kind of a.

A.

A level of, like, we're just trying to be seen somehow. I just. I just. For me, it's that way anyway. You know, like, sometimes it's, like, fight would. Do you think, like, a kid, a young kid, really wants to be out there punching his brains out, or he's just trying to get seen by, like, somebody in his life or some.

You know, I don't know what motivates people to fight. Like, some people, like, come out of poverty, and it's just. They see they can do it, and it's a way to make a living. And other people, maybe they just realize they're athletic and they fall into it and they start wrestling? I don't. Honestly, it's a good question. I don't know. I would equate, like, what you said about strippers and comics. Like, there's something about showing people something that most people keep private and wanting them to like it and putting it out there in a way where they can like it and they can relate to that. I definitely see a tie into, like, how do I expose this thing in myself or this humiliating factor or this insecurity and get people to look at it and kind of laugh and then go, okay, like, you know, you want people to laugh.

Right.

I don't want people in the crowd going, good point, Jim. You know, no one gives a shit about that Fucking embarrassing. You know, the applause break doesn't mean anything. Like you want people, they have to laugh. It's first and foremost.

You know, you almost got an applause break last night. Do you feel that one moment or was like two claps away from an applause break?

Oh, did I didn't even notice it. Yeah, I did not even notice it. I just, I plow straight through and I very rarely get applause breaks, you know what I mean? Maybe because I moved to.

I never do either. But then sometimes you see guys. Yeah. I mean, like watching Louie yesterday too. He get. But he's on, so he goes into so much. Oh, you're so bizarre. By the end of some of his stories, you're so deep.

It's like, what a great brain. Like watching him. We've been out on the road and we got a bunch more dates coming up and just watching his brain work. Like each bit is crafted. Like some of these things are such ludicrous thoughts and then they just wind up. The crowd agrees the thought and they go into this strange area. It's so much fun to watch, like, how creative a stand up can be. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. And it's so inspiring watching both you guys, man. There's moments where I'm watching the people in the crowd and a lot of times it feels like it's a guy and they usually are holding their girl pretty close. It's kind of like they convince the girl. Oh, it's gonna. We're gonna have a great time. You're gonna love these guys. And they, they're doing extra. Like, I'm gonna put my arm around my girl. Makes sure she knows we're here together tonight night. Even though he can feel them, like maybe really some disdain at some of these.

Oh, yeah.

Some of the material.

I feel people pull back sometimes, which is. You know what I mean? I. I talk about certain things. I. I feel people. But that's. That's what it is. It is what it is. You know, I don't. One thing I avoid doing. Like, I never preach politics on. It's so boring to lecture the audience.

Oh, I agree.

Oh, my God. I don't need to convince them of anything.

Yeah.

Like, I want them to have a good time and hopefully see it. My point, Even if they don't agree with it, I want them to know why I got there and that's it. Like, you can't try to change. No one's gonna walk out of my show. Educated. Yeah. My job. I blink a lot. I dropped out of high school. No one's coming to me to teach him a lesson.

Ice coffee. Cold coffee.

Cold coffee.

Dude, you had the one. I don't know if it was in. In unconceivable or if it was on stage last night. It was about, oh, the military and the. Some of them aren't mentally well.

That was last night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're like, that's who we want over there. You think, I want the fucking.

I don't want mentally with what you would consider mentally healthy. I don't want that. You had the nervous college kid creeping around with his little gun.

Yeah, I want the fucking completely deranged person.

The crazier you think somebody is, the more likely I want them to be sent over with a fucking weapon. Yeah, you do. You face that. Like, but a lot of it's common sense pushback against where, like, I think progressives were very crazy. And I also think some of it's bigotry. Like, people look at it like it's just one thing. It's like anything in life. It's. There's, there's. Look at this, then you look at that, and then you look at that. Everything is an individual thing to be looked at. There's not one answer that covers all of it.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'll have people ask me about, how could I, you know, how could I probably lean more conservative in the last election, but then also be a. A Palestine advocate? You know, it's like, I don't see how any of those things are connected. Like, I, I would never attach myself to one specific. Like, so I'm this way. That seems crazy to me.

It's because people are dumb and they masquerade as these real brave truth tellers. But a lot of people are very frightened of pushback from the group that they belong to. So they do everything in lockstep with the group they belong to.

That's true.

You can have mixed feelings about things. Like, you can, you can be an advocate for Palestine and then you can also, like, AOC and you can vote for Trump. Like, you. You can have mixed feelings about things. People just want to say, you're. You're here or you're there, but that's their own fear of being left out alone. They're afraid of being isolated. So they need the group. They're joiners, but they're masquerading as brave truth tellers. It's annoying.

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. You know, I do this thing where I'll be at the grocery store and I'LL just, I'll talk to the butcher like he's my therapist. You know, he'll be back there. He's just, you know, chopping up a chicken, brisket or whatever. And I'll be like, I need help. Dang it, I need help. As fun as it is to kind of just toss your problems on anybody when you're looking for actual help about relationships or anxiety or depression or other clinical issues, regular folks may not have all the right answers, but you can get guidance from licensed therapists online with Better Help. BetterHelp has been helping people find their therapist match for over 10 years and have a 4.9 rating out of 1.72 million client session reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp right now, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com T H E O that's betterhelp.com Theo is pornography causing a problem in your life? Do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and having trouble stopping?

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Cut that out.

Sorry. That's what she said too.

Probably.

That cut that off. That's where I was trying to go. It's almost there.

Yeah, I messed it up. Yeah, that's okay. If she wanted to, she could.

If you.

I'd miss her. Yeah. Yeah.

Dude. Do you think we are getting more like. Do you think we're getting more, I don't want to say depraved, but it's more in one view. It would be depraved if you looked at like these evangelical type of views or like, you know, like people that came over on the Mayflower, like sexually, they'd see us probably as more depraved.

Sure.

But do you feel like we're just evolving or just adjusting into different, more sexual norms?

Yeah, I think so. And it's also like the depravity. Like I don't believe people's bulls. Like I don't believe the people, some of them, sure. But the majority of the ones who are scolding and going, oh, it's terror. How could you do that? And then you realize it in D.C. these prostitutes are going, do you know how many of these senators I. Or how many of these congressmen I like? So I don't, I don't buy any of it. Like there are people who live that way. But as far as, again, a moral lecture or, or a sexual acceptability lecture from some, I just, I don't believe any of them and I don't respect any of their opinions. But yeah, I think we are more open than we used to be. Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, what's considered the norm now is, is different. I mean, back in the Mayflower days, if you were fucking gay, they'd probably hit you with a rod. I don't know what they'd do. But it wasn't good. They weren't happy to see you.

But I bet they had. I bet there was low key, a lot of support for gay men on those boats because you're on the ship.

For a long time in high stockings. I mean, come on, you're going to tell me, you're going to tell me Miles Standish didn't get his asshole played with? I hope that was his name.

It had to have been, dude, but yeah, you're telling me you're out there drinking. How many women were on the Mayflower? Let's take a Gantt because that's going to help.

I'm going to guess very few. Or none. Or none. I think that's a great point. How many women are on the Mayflower? Probably none of it. Probably all men.

The number of women. Most sources agree that 18 adult women began the Mayflower journey. Only four or five women were still alive by the spring of 1621.

Oh my God. I guess there was a long line outside each door.

Yeah. Can you imagine that, though?

Yeah.

Hiding pregnancy. Three of the women, Elizabeth Hopkins, Susanna White. White and Mary Allerton were pregnant during the voyage.

And the crazy part is there's no way to prove whose baby it was back then until it's born and you look at it and go, oh, yeah, it should be. Because There was no DNA testing. There was no. So 10 guys, you and one of them get you pregnant. Oh, oh, well, God.

Can you imagine, though? Guys would just be trying to get you drunk so that they could then go approach your wife. Or they would just be trying to get somebody else like some other guy. Get them and another man so drunk that they could just pretend that they weren't gay for a little while.

For a little while. Yeah. Oh, and have sex with the. The woman. Yeah.

Or no. Or no. Jerk off the man or have sex with the man, but just be like, oh, Susanna just keeps saying a woman's name during it or something.

Oh, and pretend like by that point you hope that you wouldn't like. Because if you're a guy, he's got to know that you're enjoying it and vice versa. You hope that you wouldn't have to be. Be thinking about a woman just to convince yourself you might be like, what's going on here?

You know, like there's some, I'm sure, like astute white males or whatever who are like, you know, in some of these, you know, who are probably getting money from apac or whatever, who were definitely sl. You know, who are like banging a guy and be like, what's happening here? This is, you know, like a tremors from an earth.

Yeah. Man.

The windows or something. You. Yeah.

What's going on there? Yeah, yeah, no, I understand what's going on.

I'm gonna come in this job.

Yeah. Oh, my God, how did this happen? I must have fallen veto. Yeah. But yes, in a way you're right because I remember it's fun. When I was a kid, when I first started jerking off, you know, I would always try to think of girls, but sometimes I would think of boys. And if I thought of a boy, I was so filled with shame that when I came, I would throw a woman in there. Like, I would like press the button. The last slide would be a girl's face. Like, oh, I just drank. You know, it was such self delusion, like.

Right.

But yeah, that. In that way you're right. It's all about shame and how to. How to stave off the shame you feel about whatever it is.

Yeah. And our society does adjust so much of that and. But it is interesting. Like, you know, I go to recovery meetings. I'm in SLA recovery and stuff like that. And so. And it's interesting because a lot of it's. Intimacy disorders, porn addiction. Like, there's so many things. Like, you know, a lot of my. I'd be like, call me or stay away. Like, that was like, I would want some, like, a woman to be close to me, but then when they got close to me, I didn't want them to. You know, just like a lot of like. Like just. Just anarchy.

It's being addicted to the hunt as well. It's being addicted to the. The lead up to something happening. And then when it's happening, you're right, you're like, get away. Okay, now. Because the lead up was the high. The lead up of the thing. And now that you're here, okay, now it's time for the next drug run, so to speak. Yeah, I definitely get that.

Yeah, maybe that's what it was.

Sometimes for me, it was like I would literally look at hookers all night. I would ride around for hours listening to Art bell on.

On NPR.

No, he was on 770 or 660.

Was it Rushlam Ball?

No, no. Art Bell was a guy. He was like, in Pahrumph, Nevada, and he was like, very big into, like, UFOs. And.

Oh, yeah, that's that guy.

He was the best.

Oh, and he passed away.

He did die. But I would ride around the Meatpacking District and look at prostitutes for hours. I would do the Comedy Cellar and then ride around. But the ritual for me was looking and talking. And most times I wouldn't pick up. I would just ride around and look and be in that space. So a lot of times it' the whole idea of doing something even more than doing it. Like, sometimes you do it, but other times it's just the idea of it.

Oh, dude. Yeah. Would there be certain things, like during the interview process, like with the. When you chat with them, we just kind of say. And you. Every now and then you just hear a certain thing and you're like, I'll spend more time with this person.

Oh, well, when I would talk to them, yeah. You know, if I was attracted to them, sure. But if I thought they might be a cop, I was so ritualistic. Like, they would have to approach the left side of my window. Like, there was weird ritualistic things that had to be clicked. Like any addiction, right? There's this weird. This box is checked, that box is checked, and then I can proceed. But if it didn't happen, it would One box wasn't checked. It would wreck the whole experience. But yeah, that. That whole. That. That's addiction is so crazy. Sex is harder. Like porn. I still struggle with porn. I have a hard time. I go into it, I come out of it.

It's.

It's hard.

I know. I just hate the way that I feel after I notice finally. I hate the way I feel the next day after watching. And I just feel a little bit like. Like dissolved. I feel like a. Yeah, like a. Like the day before, I was kind of a bit of a Rubik's cube and all the color that were matching on the sides and everything. And then the next day, I just feel kind of broken. And it takes a day for me to get my energy back organized, kind of.

That's a good way to put it. Dissolved. That's a. That's a really good way to put it. Like, you feel like, kind of like it's. It's a collapsed feeling, like. And dissolve is the perfect way. You don't feel strong and whole. You know? And it's not a moral thing. It's just. It's all that weird chemicals from, like, you. Your own drug administrator.

Yeah.

Like, when. You know what I mean, I'm sitting there, it's not attractive. It's just me twiddling my nips. Fucking chimp. And. Oh.

If you had to watch a video of yourself jerking off over all the years, you'd be like, somebody shut this guy down. Somebody put this kid out of his misery.

Yeah. What is he doing? This is long. Yeah. And unpleasant. It'd be like the director's cut of Apocalypse Now. We, like. I get why they took that stuff out. We didn't need the fucking dinner with the French people sucked. Yeah. If I had. If you had to watch yourself. Jerk. Especially if you could add up all the time. Yeah. The amount of hours or weeks or months, whatever.

You quit immediately.

I bet you'd quit immediately. And it is wasted time.

Oh, yeah.

It really is.

Oh, the waste. And. But I would do the same thing. Like, if I would look at, like, I would get high on cocaine. I would look at hookers online.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And I would, like, just be looking. I would look at the photo and I would be like, ah. You know, and then I would. Would barter. I was like, just poor. And I would barter. And then you're. And then. But then when someone would come over, I would often take the money, put it out of the door, give it to them, and have them go home. I was too Nervous to have somebody like, yeah, in my presence. One time a lady came over and she had, she said that she had to get a brain tumor taken out or something. I was like, well, you know, and I just sat with her for a little while and talked about, Talked about some stuff and then just. She just went home.

Yeah. Sometimes when you, you also realize, like, they're real people, and then you realize, like, why am I doing this? Like, I used to love talking to women after. Like, I used to love the conversation afterwards. Like, after sex or whatever, we just sit and chat, or if I would drop them off, we would talk. And I realized it was just. It's a lot of loneliness. Like, you're just lonely and you don't know how else to, to, to meet somebody. I, I didn't know how to go out and talk to people. So that was a way of meeting people that I don't miss. Like being married. The one thing I, I, I like, Like, I can just call my wife and talk to, like, you know, I mean, like, we actually, it's, It's a nice, stable thing to have in your life. Like a person who you really like and loving somebody. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, you have to like them, too. It's not enough to love somebody. Like, you have to like talking to them. Yeah. And you have to enjoy. And we have our dumb dog, and I'll just be on FaceTime with her and the dog, and I'm like, this is the life I want.

The dog shits all over it makes me furious. But it's still a nice life. Yeah. You know, I mean, compared to what was going on before, which was very lonely and isolated.

Yeah, it does. It's just interesting. You get kind of, like, trapped in patterns over time. And when you're a comedian, it feels like you're, you don't ever have to grow or. I don't know if it's a comedian. I don't know. I've struggled at certain points in my life to grow up. You know, I didn't realize for years that I hadn't been growing up really. I was kind of trapped, I think, for, in like, a child's ways a lot of times. But they were working out okay because we're in comedy, and it's like, you don't have a ton of responsibility. It's all on you. You have to show up. You know, it's like, you know, it felt almost like a kid could do it and.

But also, there's something about that that is good too. Like, because Our impression of somebody growing up and getting older was like, you know, you go up, you retire, you get the gold watch, and then you go into a home and you're finished. Like, there was a. A process, and there was a definitive end at the end of the tunnel. But when you always feel like I don't have to grow up and follow that pattern, you always feel like I don't know what's ahead of me. Like, you don't see the end.

Wait, say that part again. I want to hear it.

You don't feel like you can always see the end. You don't know what's ahead because you're not following the pattern of people growing up.

So it makes everything more exciting.

More exciting. Yeah. And you feel like there's an endless amount of time. I don't know which direction this is going to go in. That's the terrifying part of doing things the way like your parents do it, is that you see A, B, C, D. But if you're kind of stuck between A and B in some way, you have no idea where you're headed. And it still feels like the end is not directly in front of me.

And that makes you also continue to feel young, because it. It's that same feeling that you always had when you were young.

Yeah, it's kind of. It is. It's a way. And I think it's a healthy way to be. I don't think it's crazy. As long as you're paying your bills and you're. You're decent to the person that you're with. Like, you know, it's a fun life. Like, we. We fought to not have a boss, to not have a retirement age like that. This is the dream life. This is what I wanted to do. Sometimes I'll be in a hotel, mad, and I'm like, shut up, you fucking asshole. How many of your friends have to get up and go to a warehouse on Tuesday morning and you're mad you have to drive to Asheville. Shut up. Yeah, like you. I mean, this is like what you wanted and you got it. So even with great jobs, there's annoying parts of it.

Yeah, that's the truth. And it's fun. It's fun. You're gonna get to go to Asheville. That place is amazing, dude. I remember the first time. That's one of true. The blessings I think of having and worked in this job is like. Like, I got to go to lacrosse. Wisconsin, dude. Blew my mind.

What is it?

It's a town in Wisconsin, and it's like this beautiful like hill, like kind of small mountain right on the edge of it. And it's just amazing, man. It's like we were right there like the weekend before Halloween. So you had like all the kids being like brought home from their parents after school and their costumes and the leaves are all fall. It just looked like you couldn't. It was like the perfect place to grow up is what it looked like.

Do you want kids? Kids?

Yeah, I want to have kids.

You do? Yeah.

I just think I would like to do it. I would like. I think it'll help me, like, just not think about me, you know, you start to get exhausted of yourself.

Yes. And they say that's the one. That's the thing. Kids open up that thing. And I know that by not having kids. And I've never wanted kids. I don't feel like really. No, never.

Does Nikki want him?

She would love to adopt. She would love to adopt.

I could see you getting something cool.

I could see me dying and then her doing that, which is great. I told her, like, when I drop dead, do what you want something my stupid Kiss posters and get yourself a kid. But I've never wanted it. I don't feel like I don't dislike kids, but I don't feel it. But when I hear somebody who wants them like that, it does supposedly open up a part of you. And everyone I know who has kids says it like it's a good thing. And you start thinking about something other than yourself. And your purpose is other than yourself. Yeah, for me it's. I haven't had that. So maybe that's why I'm half miserable. Fucking idiot. Just in my 50s. These on Japanese Kiss poster auction. Auction sites. Like a idiot. Instead of worrying about my kids soccer game, you know, I mean, maybe that's. Maybe you're right. That's. It's probably. It opens up. That part's healthier.

Going back to like if you had. If you were able to. If you're. Is there part of you, like, because you said that if I died, then my wife could go ahead and get. If she wants to get kids and that's fine. Is there a little part of you that's like, that still feels like having a family in a weird way? Like at least I was able to help and support somebody and create an environment for them to have a family, like in a weird way. Does that make any sense?

No, but it's not. When you say it, it sounds really nice, but it's never occurred to me. Like again, I. I feel like with my wife and a small dog, it's such a different life than I ever had. Like, it's a hundred percent different that I feel like that's my family.

Okay, got it.

But you're right, like, I am facilitating for someone to have them if she wants them, because I tell her, I'll be dead long before you. Like, so do what you want. When I'm dead, I don't care. Sell my shit and, you know, find some young fucking Latin guy and, you know, have a great life. And she would believe me while they were still powdering my face in the casket getting fucked.

Dude, they should put a tattoo of you on the guy's back, though. That would be kind of nice.

Or on his stomach so she really has to look at it when they're intense, intimate. No, she'll do what she wants. I, I just never wanted it, man. I don't have anything against it. I respect it. All my friends who do it are happy they did it. I watched Bobby Kelly go, like, from being a single guy and then, you know, long term relationship, son loves, he loves his life like that. Like, it's just not for me. Like, I see it and I'm happy for my friends, but I don't envy it.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Like, when I'm around children, I never go like that instinct in me is never. And it doesn't pull me in that direction. Even around my nephews who I love very much. I would love them and hang out with them, but it never made me want to go have a kid.

Got it.

But I don't know, maybe that's selfish, right? Maybe I'm a selfish. Maybe.

Maybe it's selfish though also to have them. Like, I wouldn't have them just in order to get me out of my own ego jail. That happens sometimes. I mean, I know it's like, like, yeah, I would like to be able to have, like. I think part of me is like, I would like to be able to create a safe experience for a child in the world because I don't, I don't know if I felt like I had that A lot of times I felt like I want to try in my best to fill in some of those holes that I didn't have to because I think our lineage kind of deserves that somewhat. And, and I think since I really love, love that childhood stuff and a lot of, like, the emotional side of it, I think I could probably service that pretty well.

Right.

So I would like to like, respectfully try My hand at that. With a woman who is a very loving mom, who wants to be a mom, and with a kid who's willing to, you know, be, you know, just be my son or daughter.

Well, you would actually like, you know, because you have this. Like you said, we don't grow up. There's a lot of time to have fun with a kid, too. Like, you know what I mean? Like, in our life, it does afford us a lot of things that most people can't do. Like, you can book a gig on the road. If you want to go to Hawaii, you book Hawaii. And you could bring your fam. Like, most people can't do that.

Right.

They have to schedule it around. Like, I'm not doing radio for the first time in 20 years, and it's so weird not having a schedule. It's so weird not going, okay, well, Labor Day, Memorial Day. Like, this is when we get off this. When we don't get off. To just be able to go on the road and do what I want to do is a very foreign feeling. I love it. It's nice. And having a kid, you could do that. You could just book a place not to be. You know, having a kid and having a radio show with the same thing.

But you. Yeah. I don't know. You got to get up early.

Yeah, you're right. It kind of sucks. You kind of don't want to look at the people you're talking to. Yeah, maybe. Exactly. Having a kid, it's like any other partnership.

The food sucks.

The food sucks. Yeah. The hours are kind of annoying. You got to wake up when you don't want to wake up. You're cranky through most of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Your partner's there. Them, you know, it's like.

Yeah. Because they made it in before I did. You're like, you're happy to be here, aren't you? You? Yeah, but I do. I do kind of miss it a little bit. Like, I miss the structure of it, but I also like not having it.

Oh, it was so much fun when you guys had. I mean, I only got to go when it was open, actually. I came when it was Jim and Sam, too.

Okay.

But I never got to go when Anthony was there.

Yeah.

But it was fun. Like, I mean, that was, like, some of the first times I ever got to be in a place where, like, people got to hear my voice that were, like, paying attention.

Yeah.

Like, we talked to Bobby Kennedy on that show, which was on you guys show, which was crazy because he and I became friends years later. Which was why Wild.

Was he in studio? Like, I think he was in studio with us, wasn't he? Like, for some reason. Did Robert Kennedy just call in?

Called in.

Oh, it was a phone call. I thought I saw a picture of.

All of us together and I'd never heard of him. And I thought he'd been, like, electrocuted or, you know, or people were him while he was talking or whatever. Like, I didn't know what was going on.

Those are really bizarre reasons for the voice. Yeah. Wait, is that him right there?

Oh, never mind.

I thought I saw that. That's my cell. I can't. I don't have my glasses. And Florentine and Opie and. Yeah, and that's Robert Kennedy. I did. I didn't remember that. Look at how skinny I was. No, I. I know back then I. I look like a weird photoshopped version of what I am now.

You look almost feminine there. A little bit. Kind of like a white Charlemagne kind of.

That is funny. And he would hate that.

He knows I think he's a handsome.

No, no, no. But nobody wants to be Jim Norton. To be like, yeah. Kind of resemble Jim Norton, but that. You're right. It is like a little. My. My wife hates me like that. Like, she's like, you look like a little twink. You look sick. I don't like it. She like, you're not a small, you're a medium. She makes me. She never wants me to be like that again, but that's how I want to be. And it does look kind of sickly. Like, when I see that, like, my neck, my head, like. And I was so depressed at that point in my life, so I wasn't even half happy.

You seemed like you were doing great. And then Daryl Strawberry. That's the day I came in. So. Coked up.

Were you coked up that day?

Oh, bro, that's. That started my. That. That. That day I made a story for Ari Shafir's show. And that story, like, that story, like, is when people started paying attention to my comedy.

Oh, really?

Yeah. I ended up on an attacks cap driving a taxicab high on cocaine. The driver had picked me up. There was a girl in the cab. We're dropping her off. She kind of rejected me. I didn't, like, make like. I just like, she was laying in my lap. I was trying to, like, give her a kiss, you know, because it feel like she was flirting. She laid in my lap and like, of course. So I like, you know, whatever. And I didn't get be aggressive. But she like, was like, what are you doing? And so then I felt some rejection. She. She got dropped off where she was going. It was just me and the driver and I was like, let's go get some coke. You know, where we get some cocaine. And then it was like, next two hours later, I'm driving. He has a hooker. He's bought hookers for us. He's in the back of the taxi. We're up in like Washington.

Washington Heights.

Washington Heights, Yep. And I. I have to be at the radio station the next morning at like 6:30. I get dropped off at my hotel at 5:50, right? It's a couple blocks away. I shower and I walk over there. Dude. And it was the scariest walk ever because every moment of the walk was so scary. And I just was like rattled, right? And I got inside and I sat on the show. I couldn't even talk.

I don't remember.

Daryl Strawberry was the guest and I'd always thought he was like this drug addict. And here he was, pure as a driven snow, sober.

He's clean and sober. I think he still is. I hope he still is. But yeah, he came. Joe Torres told the story about him about the plane going in. That was really bad turbulence and everyone was panicking, but Daryl was reading his Bible in the back. So like he turned around and like has this sober life life. And it's weird being up around somebody that's sober. Oh, it's uncomfortable.

And I'd always thought he was this way. And I'd always thought I was kind of like toeing the line and do, you know, straight. And then it was this moment where everything. And that's when I got in a recovery rooms after that.

Really?

Yeah, yeah. That was literally the two days after that show.

Like, you know, the Opie and Anthony show was. It was a different thing. Like it was, you know, and Opie and I did what we could. It's hard to follow the Opie and Anthony show. Like, you know, I mean, it's, it's a hard act to follow, especially when it was uprooted without any one of us wanting it to be uprooted. But man, I look back at that show and I'm really glad I was a part of that. Like there was some really funny on that show. Great comics coming through, everyone being vicious to each other. Like, you know what I mean? It was a really. There was a lot of fun times on that show.

God, that was so fun. You got. It felt like the luckiest place in the World. There was no better call you could get at the time in the country, I don't think, think than to go on to that show. And some people didn't even recognize it. And that's fine them. But to go in there and sit in there with guys. Destefano, Sherrod, Small, Pete Davidson, Mark Norman would be in there just like everybody. Vic Henley, like, yeah. Greg, Florence. Oh, Jim.

Oh, Jim. Florentin. Yeah, yeah.

Just all those guys, man, that was magical.

It was fun and it was a good. You would see your friends. I mean, the last time I saw Patrice, I remember he was on, he was on, was on O and A, and he was coming in one day and they're like, hey, Patrice is coming in either Thursday or Friday. And we were just having an after show meeting. They're like, do you have any preference? And I remember going, hey, let's do Thursday because I'm traveling. Friday, I won't be here. I wanted to see him and he came in and he did the show. That was the last time I saw him. Like, so it's like you saw people that you would not have been likely to see. Yeah, coming through friends that were on the road. You would always get to see them. Because I'd come in the studio that I miss a lot being in the center of that, like, you know what I mean? And you know, everyone headlines. So you don't see your friends anymore. You probably go years without seeing guys that you like.

Totally.

But, you know, there I would see guys come, come through and yeah, man, I, I, I really, I love those days a lot.

It was special.

Yeah, I felt like it was.

You got to go to. You went to Ozzy's last show?

Yeah, me and Jim Florentine. Who? Florentine got me my first paid gig in comedy. He's my oldest friend in comedy. And we knew Sabbath was doing one more show, so we went to London, in Birmingham, booked a couple gigs just to pay for the trip. Yeah, and we did get to go to the show. I was, I'm so happy we went.

Yeah, yeah.

We said hello to Ozzy briefly at the end. Again, he's very frail at that point. Point he was in a wheelchair. But we still got to say hello. And I'm really happy we got to say hi at least. And hey, I love the show. It's great. Yeah, it was, it was an unbelievable trip. We went to the Black Sabbath house. We did a video where the, you know. You ever see the original Black Sabbath album cover? There's a A woman in front of a. This. This ominous house. And we went there and we actually went up and looked inside. It was. It was a really. It was like, you know, again with your. Your dumb friend. It's like, we should have done this 40 years ago. Yeah. Like, the fact that we did this in our late 50s. We should both be pushed into a ditch. Idiots.

Oh, dude.

Yeah.

Well, there's also. You get into. On the road, did you get to see Jack or Kelly or.

Yes, I saw both of them backstage.

That's awesome.

I don't know. Kelly, she's a sweetheart and she. She actually, you know, she told me she was getting married and she was very sweet and Jack is always great. And it's funny, the day Ozzy died, I was supposed to be in LA doing Jack's podcast. I was going out after Sabbath to LA for a day to do the podcast. And the day before, whatever, they canceled. They're like, yeah, Ozzy. Ozzy died. So, you know, it sucks. Nobody was expecting it this soon. Did you.

Do you feel like. Like, as you get older and people like. Like heroes start to kind of disappear? What is that? Kind of like you.

You do see, it's almost like I look at us like we're on a production line. Like, you know what I mean? Like, going this way, and the more of them that drop off, the end, you're like, oh, my turn is coming, like. But I also am grateful. Like, it makes you grateful. Like, you get to know people, you get to meet people you love. Who's the biggest hero you've met since you've been doing standup that you actually got to talk to?

That's a good question. Or even the first question, probably Chris Rock, I think, really, like, for comedic hero, for sure. Like, getting to meet him was pretty. I thought was pretty special. Chris Pratt, I really liked getting to meet just because I think there's something really special about him. Like, I think he's a great entertainer, but I. There's something, I think, really special about him.

Are you shocked when they're fans of yours, too? Like, if you had anybody that you.

Love who likes Jason Momoa, like, the other day I was walking through somewhere and this big arm comes out and just pulls me in. It was just like two different areas passed and there was an open door in between.

Yeah.

And I was just like, oh, my God, it's. And I thought I said, it's the guy from Shark Tank. Right. I fucked up. And he just started laughing. He's like. And he said, whatever. Show it was. Or whatever, but he was just really nice and, like.

And he likes your show, and he.

Just said, hey, man, I'm. I just want to let you know that I'm a fan of yours. And. Yeah. Yeah. Things like that, especially, like, if it's sometimes, like, a male figure, I think it, like. Like, I didn't have a lot of that when I was a kid. I didn't have, like, any male ever, like, being like, you know, I'm a fan of yours, or, like, I like what you. You know, I just didn't have any of that energy in my life. And so, like, even little moments like that, like, to me, are big, you know? Even Dustin Poirier, he and I becoming friends over the years.

Oh, I love him. I've never. He's one of the few guys in the UFC I haven't met. I love Dustin. Yeah.

I mean, he kind of changed my life in some ways of, like, just, of, like, you know. You know, like, just checking in, what's up, you know, just little things like that. You know, it makes you. I don't know, like, having, like, a tough figure that. That's, like, you know, I'm looking out for you.

Just something.

Little thing like that, even though it's not even. It just kind of. It.

It.

It. It attaches itself to an old place in me that was missing part of a magnet. Yeah.

Yeah. 100.

And when those click, it, like, makes you feel something.

There's a weird thing, too, when you have figures like that in your life who are checking in on you. There's like, a weird sense of, like, accountability in a way. Like, even though you're not. You're just friends, but you still don't want your friend to say, hey, how you doing? And you, like, you want to at least be doing something good, and your friends can keep you somewhat accountable. Like, you know, I mean, and not in the way that, you know, people use it now. Like, you got to be accountable for sad, right? That shitty online gotcha nonsense these children are doing. But I mean, like. Like, when. When you're personally just feeling like, I don't want to let this guy down, have him think I'm an asshole.

Right? I'm gonna get out of bed today, or I'm gonna go do this extra thing. Just little things like that that keep people inspired, and then I think we all do that for each other in some ways, you know? Like, I'll get that feeling sometimes, like, I'm just gonna rattle this off to this person, even if they don't hit me back. That's fine.

That's right.

Just let them know, hey, man, I'm thinking about you, just letting you know, you know, I think you're great, or I care about you, or you're doing great today. Just little things like that, you know? And I think sometimes my brother's like, well, those are things you really wish that people would say to you. And I'm like, that's fine. But I think the feeling I get is that I want to share it with somebody else. So it's. It's still okay, right?

100%. And you're right. And the older you get, and the more people that d. The more people like that die of natural overdose, suicide. I mean, we've all, you know, sure, those things happen, but when they start just dying of, like, heart issues or things that, like, are people things, you're like, oh. So you start telling people you love them more and, like, hey, man, I miss you. Like, I'm not afraid to tell guys, hey, I miss you. Because, like, there's one day you're gonna be like, I wish I could say that to this person. So I say it like, you know what I mean? And I. When Patrice died, he's just an example. There's nothing in our relationship that went unstable. Said, like, there's nothing. I wish. Oh, man, I wish he. Like, we had a complete relationship. You know what I mean? Like, with. And you make sure that with your close friends, you have complete relationships. So there's nothing that you go like, oh, my God, for the rest of my life, I'm gonna wish that they knew that I felt this way. Do you know what I mean? Like, and that's really important to me now is, like, these complete relationships.

Like, if Bobby. Not to jinx Bobby, but if Bobby or Anthony or one of my dropped it, I would. I would. They. They know how I feel, right? We. We know. It's. It's not like it went unsaid.

Do you ever think over time, like, did you think, like, you were missing relationships like that when you were younger? Like, were you missing, like, some. Like, do you think people could be, like, missing a connection with, like, a male figure and then that gets com. That gets. That creates gay curiosity in somebody over time? Does that make any sense to you?

Sure. I mean, what. What creates curiosity in anybody? I don't know. Like, that could be one thing that causes it. Like, because you're craving that connection, and all of a sudden you're like, well, there's a sexual component to this Too where I want to connect and I think it's sexual. I don't know exactly what, like I said, what makes me have a pull right towards something. But there are things like that I think can influence it. Like if you don't have any male figures in your life and you get close to a male figure, you may love that person and then not know, like, wow, is this love? Like, I want to lay down with this person or is this a healthy normal? Yeah, yeah, I love you, man. Like, why do you have gay curiosity?

I think there will know the. Well, there was time in my life where I like, didn't. Like, I was just definitely like a late bloomer with a lot of like. Like intimacy of any type.

Sure.

You know, like, I were like, I was just talking about this the other day with a friend, but it was like, even now if a woman like looks at me, it's like. Or says something nice. I got. Got to change the subject. I just. It's hard for me to be in that moment.

Right.

It's hard for me to be right here and. But yeah, growing up I just felt like I didn't get a lot of like, I didn't have like a strong brotherly or fatherly connection. And so like, when I started to get relationships like that with friends later on, I think it was a part of me for a little bit. It was like, oh, is this like a gay. Like, because I was so desperate for those relationships, so part of me, it had a wager in my head head like, is this a gay thing or is this just a friend thing? And then I had to learn how much can you just be a friend to somebody without kind of over not seeming into a like a homosexual like space or sexual space, but just like into where it's awkward for them because you're trying to be too much of a friend because you just have never had that sort of friendship.

Yeah, I mean, but there is a. It's a feeling that there's a definitive like, emotion. Like, if I love one of my friends, I'm like Bobby or any of these guys a Voss. Rotten Voss who? I love Colin. I love these guys. I mean, I really love them and I can hug them and tell them I love you, but there's a moat between that and wanting to peck them on the neck. There is a definitive line. And that's what people a lot of times don't like. Like any guys who are freaked out by my lifestyle. Like, that's fucking grow. Like most guys have to understand like the Idea of me having sex with you is as disgusting to me as it is to you. Like, it makes me nauseous to think about it. Like any, if any of my friends think I want to jerk off with them, they're very delusional. I don't. None of them. I don't care if they're built like Rogan. None of them would I jerk off with.

Yeah. Glazing that ham brother.

None them. Of one of them. So it's like there is a, there is a line between love and really connecting with a friend and feeling intimate with a buddy. Yeah. Which I'm glad as an adult male I'm allowing myself to do. Like, I'm not afraid of that and, and, and feeling sexual. They're completely different. Yeah. Things for me. But you know that. So. Yeah. There can be a different. You can love somebody without having any of that stuff.

Yeah. And I think you just hear so much like, you know, when you're young, it's like there's, there was always so many like, like, you can't say this around a dude or something. A lot of that's kind of changed over the years. Especially me. I'm a pretty emotional dude. And so I like thinking about emotions and I like, you know, I like kind of examining that stuff. But yeah, I think there was probably, there was probably some times where I was like, is this. Am I like. And also I was having so much trouble like, communicating with women. So it also to see, well, maybe I'm gay man. You know, maybe I'm gay man. And I. But then I, I never felt an attraction to men. And so it was like, like. But I think some of that's pretty normal. I'm amazed at a lot of my friends as I get older that date trans. Prefer to date trans women.

Yeah. You, you'll find a lot of people that.

It's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a lot more than I ever expected.

Yeah. And it's part of people think like what. It's this new thing. But a lot of it is you people are just not hiding anymore.

Right.

Or they're just not as afraid of it or they're more aware of it because there's more people who are trans now and there's more like, you know, with, with, with sur estrogen and like, oh, wow, that person looks great. Like there's so many things people do. It's just, it's a part of the culture and it's not going to go away. Like, I know Some people I understand. Nobody wants an ideology beaten over their head. I get. Yeah. Nobody wants to be told how to feel. I don't scold people if they don't agree with me, I don't care.

Yeah.

I have plenty of people I know who I respect and like would find my lifestyle awful. It's always funny because I do a lot of Gutfeld episodes, and when I.

Go on to come there one time. He's a nice guy.

He's a great guy. He really. He's a genuine. And he's really funny. Funny and he's fair.

And Jamie Lisso's on there sometimes, huh?

Jamie's great on that show.

Love Jamie.

Tyrus is really great at what. He's just a very naturally funny, good talker.

Tyrus is a big guy. And he's mixed, right?

He's mixed. He's mixed.

He lives in the town that I'm from in Louisiana.

Oh, he is from Louisiana. That's right. He goes home all the time.

That's cool. I saw him at the gym one time.

He's inspired me in a way because he lost so much weight recently. Like, it made me get back to the gym. I'm like. And I know for him it's been a struggle, struggle. And I'm like, he's doing it. He's putting up videos of himself, boxing. I'm like, just getting the gym dude.

He looks like all of the Lion King in one person.

He's in a respectable way, very intimidating. And Cat, I don't want to leave Kat Timpa. She's hilarious. It's a great show. So anyway, I do that and they go on the road. A lot of those fans don't know me except from that show. It's so I. Nothing I like more than watching the joy just drained from their face when they realize who they've paid to see.

Yeah.

But I, you know, more people, I guess now are more comfortable being themselves because you also. It's. It's like, you know, I mean, I was. When I was a kid, I was. I'm older than you, so in the 70s, I got called a. All the time. I got beaten up and chased by older kids for doing little sexual things with boys. The word gets out. He's a like. And it was nasty. So. Wow. It's nice that people aren't being treated that way anymore.

I didn't know that you had had that kind of stuff happen. And. Well, I. I think kids got called that. Like, I certainly got called just for being, like, being smart in A neighborhood where it was uncomfortable to know.

Yeah.

You know, like, I wish it was.

For that reason, but. No, that's not why they called me that. I was nose deep on a belly button. I earned it.

Hey, some people call it penis. Some people call it long pussy. You know, that's a new term for.

It, a long pussy.

Like, let's just say she's got a long pussy, you know, but dude.

Yeah.

People are such perverts now. Who even. But then also, it is crazy because there has been this energy that we've all been following this, like, astute level of our government and this. But then now you realize, oh, these half. These guys are damn pedophiles running around, around skeeting on, you know, kids off the coast of wherever. It's like, what's going on?

I. That's why I don't believe any of it. Like, they're talking about what the marriage and the sanctity of marriage. And then you find out that person's divorced. It's like, man, I don't. I don't want to hear you weigh in. If you're divorced, shut the fuck up about who can get married because you didn't do it. Right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't believe any of it. It's just like, I don't believe progressions. When they're talking about, know, being so pious and the purity checks they put everyone through. It's like, you're full of shit too. All your friends are white. Shut up. Yeah, like, you know, I mean, I don't.

That shit. When people are saying that have never lived in the south of how things should be in the South. Fuck you come down, live in our neighborhoods for a little bit, see what the shit is like, you know, it's the same sometimes with the border stuff. I don't know what it's like to live on the border in Brownsville, Texas. I don't know what people's lives are like, right there. I don't know the fears people have when they put their kids to sleep at night. I don't know the fears people have who are trying to come over over who are trying to get their. Give their kids a place where they can go to sleep at night. Like, I don't know what that's like. So, like, I have thoughts about it sometimes, but to really be like, so definitive, and it's crazy to me.

Well, you. Yeah, and because you. You dealing with the immigration, with. With Nikki, which, again, we did it legally and it's a Long. The immigration system should be sped up. Like it should be a 24 hour system that's always got people working because it's like your life is ticking away and you're waiting and they're sending paperwork through the US mail. It's like, Jesus Christ. Like these are like, which is just a trap.

The mail is basically like handing a letter to a black guy and hoping he takes it where it's supposed to go.

Yeah, just. Here you go. Please bring that to, to the, to the government. This is the request for evidence. Here it is. When there's so much more. It's a government. Anything with the government is not going to be efficient. So immigration, they really should streamline it more and more and make it. And hire more people like that. Because I understand why people hop the fence, but I don't agree with it because we did it legally. Like, but I'm lucky I could afford a lawyer. Like a lot of people can't afford attorneys. So I kind of go back and forth with it.

Well, it's nuanced, you know. And people get up so, so upset about the ICE thing. But here's what I think people don't understand. We're headed to a, a surveillance state, I believe in America.

Yeah.

Like they're doing this like their Palantir as this new deal. They're the same ones that are like, like owning all these drones and operating a lot of these drones in Gaza and stuff.

Their company, right, Palantir.

Yeah, allegedly. That are sniping children. I mean we had a doctor and he said bullets would come straight down it like from above, like a succinct shot. So that's the same company. Like we're. You won't be able to be in like hypothetically or on paper, illegal person in America in two years. I don't think because the, the, the, the, the radar will go off. Like the, the facial recognition will, will go. You can't do it. So they're getting all the paperwork organized now. They're just taking inventory right now. And I know it's painful with the fate.

You're right. The facial recognition, like, I don't mind it at the airport. Like, I know some people won't let them take the picture. But I show up at the airport sometimes and I did just take a picture of my, my, my stupid face and I just walk through. I love it. Anything that makes my life easier. And I know that so many civil libertarians are come tell me to go fuck myself. You're right. Fine. I don't care. I mean, I'm 57. I just like going on a plane fast. Yeah.

Oh, I wish things were different a lot of times. But also, here we are. Right. It's like, I can wish things were different. I can romanticize that we're still before 9 11. But that's not where we are right now. We're in this place. But I. I believe that's why all the stuff with ice. So people sometimes are so. Like they shouldn't be doing. I know. I understand. People have different feelings, but there's no other way to get to where we're headed. Headed by them getting everybody on the books.

And I would like to get people like criminals, once you commit a crime, get out. Like.

Yeah. Or hang. I'm. I'm fine with hangings. I'm fine with executions for some people.

Yeah.

Not everybody.

No, no, no. But those who really misbehave.

Yeah.

Although it's funny, I've turned against the death penalty. Like, have you? But not. They always say it's cruel and unusual punishment. There's. There's a. There's a line in injustice role where he's talking about something. He goes, in theory it's great, but in practice it sucks. I think in theory the death penalty is allowable. Like, I don't think it's cruel and unusual. I think people who hurt children and kill children, I'm all for their fucking heads being mushed between two giant pieces of metal. I just don't trust the system enough and I don't trust prosecutors enough to back off. Like, there's so many times that they care more about the record of the office than they do the actual truth point. So that's the only reason that's turned against it. It's nothing to do with it being. I. I think it's a perfectly allowable thing, but our system isn't perfect.

That's a good point.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like when a coach runs up the score at the end of the game. Like, how do you know that that that prosecutor's office isn't just trying to run up the score? Because maybe they're trying to make their office look better with so many deals and they're going to sell to a bigger company.

Yeah.

You just never know. That's a great point.

And they don't want to pay lawsuits. So there's. I just don't trust the integrity. Integrity of the people who will look bad if it's overturned. Yeah. And you look back, there's enough prosecutorial misconduct. We're like, ah, not technicality. Not where a guy had bloody underpants in his house, but the search warrant had the wrong date on it. Like, I'm not talking about technical. Yeah, but there are people who legitimately didn't commit the crime. And then you see, like, evidence that wasn't given to their attorneys.

Like, yeah, it happens a lot.

I just can't get around a lot of poor people too much more than rich people. That's a good point, too. Like, so if everyone got the same level of legal representation, it's not what happens though. Yeah, I don't think it's racial. I think it's, it's money. Like, if you have enough money for great lawyers, you have enough money for great lawyers.

Yeah.

But if you don't, you get some guy that's overworked who's doing it, you know, because he has to do it pro bono. You're not going to get the level of experts and all these people that can refute evidence. So whatever. That's how I feel about it. But I do think that emotionally I agree with it. Like, you know, I mean, I get why people. Yeah.

What's. Also, it starts to. You start to think, is there bad DNA in the universe?

Sure. You're looking at it. Yeah.

This is a, this is Dahmer's petri dish over here.

Five foot six of bad DNA.

Did you guys ever get to. Did you guys ever get to interview O.J. simpson? Did you guys ever interview a murderer?

Did we ever. I don't, I don't know if he ever. I've interviewed Frank Lucas, who was in. Who was the Moxley.

That wasn't that guy.

No, it was American Gangster. That Denzel played him. But there's a moment where he went up and shot somebody, so he might qualify. I'm dying to interview Sammy the Bull. I'm dying to talk to him because I, I. This podcast is fascinating. You know who one of the best guys we ever talked to was? It was this giant cop from Milwaukee. His name was something Kennedy. He was 6 foot 7, and he was the cop who debriefed Jeffrey Dahmer. When they arrested Dahmer and they brought Dahmer to the station house. He's the cop, the detective that Dahmer first talked to. And he said at first he didn't believe him because he was like, yeah, I killed all these people. And then he said he got a call from the scene and like, yeah, with the refrigerator, we found heads. And then he had to go Back over it. Yeah.

Patrick Kennedy.

Patrick Kennedy, yeah. He died, unfortunately.

He looks young.

He was a giant, six foot seven, beast of a man. Very nice guy. But he. And he admitted that when Dahmer died, he got emotional because he had gotten to know him, and he goes. He kind of got a little bit. He cried. He said, when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed, because he was a bad guy, but he's still, you know, whatever. When you know someone, you know him. But a murderer, that's a good. I don't know.

But never O.J. huh?

Never talked to O.J. i corresponded with him once. I sent him a DM trying to get him on the radio show, and he did respond to me, but we never got him on. This was after he got out of jail for. In the Vegas thing.

My buddy has a story where they were in New York one night, and they were doing some cocaine. And this was after the murders, and. And somebody was like, oh, I don't have a key on me. And O.J. pulled a knife out of his jacket, and they did it off of the knife. He.

Jimmy did the lock.

No, he. They just.

Oh, the coke. The coke.

They were doing the cocaine, and they pulled the knife out and they did the. They. And they were all looking at him like it was fucking crazy that he would do that.

Why would you carry that? And the only thing crazier than that is me acting like someone's aunt. What? They couldn't get in the house. What an asshole. How did you. I missed the point of that. I apologize. I'm stupid. I'm a stupid man. You talk about doing coke, and I'm like, what, did they jimmy the lock? Oh, fucking blithering old idiots. I'm an old man. Yeah, that's. That's a very bizarre. Maybe O.J. had to @ that point, though, because, you know, people had such strong feelings about that. Maybe he was afraid somebody was gonna jump out and take a shot at him or attack him. I never met him.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we had a chance to meet him when he was doing podcasts and he was getting paid for them for a while.

Yeah. Yeah.

And we didn't buy. We didn't go into that.

I would love to. I met Kevorkian once, but Ron Bennington, I think, interviewed him, and he was there. So I took a picture with Dr. Kevorkian, but I would love to have gotten to talk to him, but I never got to talk to him, unfortunately, some of them. He's just like, fuck.

Did you guys Have Trump on your show Sometimes.

He called in a couple of times. Matt and I, for UFC Unfiltered, interviewed Trump. It was before he got the nomination for the. We knew he was going to get it, but it was, like, immediate. But Biden was president, and he.

We.

They. They reached out to us. They're like, do you want to interview President Trump? We're like, yeah. So we went to Vegas and we did it in the. The Trump Hotel. And he was really great. Like, it was a sports interview. Because Dana's like, I don't want this to be politics. This is not a political show. We talked to him for about 40 minutes about boxing and stuff. Boxing, MMA. Because Trump was a great friend to the UFC. He was a tremendous asset to the UFC long before they had what they have now.

Dana speaks about that a lot.

His brain, dude. His brain. Whether people love him politically or not doesn't matter. I sat in the room with him. His brain was really sharp. People thought we had cue cards set up because his answers were so on the money. And he remembered every fighter, and he remembered every fight, and people like, these guys had cue cards set up, and he was very sharp. So. And he was nice to my wife when I introduced him. So I. I had a great, great time talking to him.

Yeah, you can't.

Not. Anybody who wins the presidency has some form of charisma.

Oh, yeah. I'm always. People like, you had that, dude. What are you talking about? Do you know the street I grew up on? If I didn't interview a president and I had the chance?

Yeah.

If I didn't sit with people, whether I agree with them or don't agree with them, like, how the. Am I supposed to know anything about them or get any feeling as a human as to what they may or may not be like or how they operate at the. Like, I would sit down with the devil, probably, and at least see if I could get a feel for some of his future plans.

Absolutely. And then just. I would keep looking at his little cloven feet. Where do you get your shoes from, Dev? But, yeah, who. Who would want to sit with the like again?

And he was mine.

I would. I would. I would show the same respect to Biden or Camel and any. Any of them I talked to, I would be respectful to and have a nice conversation with. There's this weird line where people. How could you talk to Trump? Shut up.

Yeah, shut the fuck up. You don't have the chance to talk to any of these people. And I don't mean that in A negative way, but fuck you.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with whoever wants to interview somebody. Why should just the. The quote unquote press have access to people if they're willing to come on and talk? Why wouldn't you talk to me? But then I do.

Some of those guys interviewed Netanyahu and I did not like that, though.

Oh, you didn't see. Had that kind of feeling.

Yep. I'm just thinking that out loud. So. So I guess there's a part of me that doesn't really feel that way.

But if you didn't. There's a difference between not liking something.

And I wouldn't interview him.

And vocal. You wouldn't, would you? Maybe you could interview and ask him tough questions.

I think I would probably try to ask him stuff that really means something to me.

Sure. And that's fair. Like that they know that if you're Netanyahu or you're Trump or you're Biden, you know that when you go into an interview, part of it might be this guy asking you questions from. From a belief system that is not yours. So you might hear things you don't like. But yeah, that'd be the best thing to do is to interview him and ask him shift that he might not want to answer, but that you want to know the answer to.

Do you think that's better than not interviewing somebody?

It's personal preference. I mean, I don't think you're wrong to not want to talk to somebody. I think if you go, nah, I'd rather not. I think that's perfectly fair. But I think that part of the thing too is when you're sitting in the room with somebody, no matter who they are, even if you hate them them, there is sometimes something about them that you connect to and like, and it becomes harder to hate them again. It doesn't have to be a politician. I've met people like Lauren Boebart. I don't know her. I don't agree with her politics. And I met her once and she was very nice, this kid Rock's girl.

Not his girlfriend, is it?

I don't know. I met her. She was at a Kill Tony event. But she was so nice and I enjoyed chatting with her. And it's like, even if I don't agree with her, I don't have the same feelings about her that are bad. Like, you know what I mean? Because I've met her and she was nice.

Oh, for sure.

It's harder for me to look at her like just this person who's got no real feelings and no real connection to anything.

Oh, yeah, she got them bumpers on her, too.

She is quite attractive. Yeah. Yeah. She looks great. I got zero vibes offer. But, I mean, she was, you know, as I shouldn't have.

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

But she was nice. So when you meet somebody, sometimes you think you know what they're going to be like, and they wind up impressing you and you're like, it's harder for me to dislike. Right. But although Netanyahu is. That's such a controversial issue. I'm not saying you would like the guy, but. You know what I mean? Sitting across from him, you may feel differently or you may hate him more.

Right? Yeah. There is something about sitting across from somebody. You're at least sitting across from them. There is some connection of, like, spatial energy of. Of something like that. Of, like. Because you. I think it is human to want to find some commonality with people.

Yeah. You want to find something that. That. That you kind of like. It's funny, we were interviewing one time, Ben Kingsley, and I remember talking to.

Is he.

He was in, like. He was in the. Just. He's an actor. He was in. I think. Did he play Gandhi? He might have played Gandhi. He's been in everything.

I mean, Kingsley.

Yeah, he's. He's been. Did he play Gandhi? I could be. He's a very famous actor. He had a great, great. Yeah, he was Gandhi. He's been around.

I was in a Peter Billingsley. That's who I'm thinking of.

Who's Peter Billingsley? I know that name, too.

He is the guy who kissed that pipe and he got tongue stuck on it.

Oh, in the.

In the Christmas Story.

Yes, yes. But we were just talking to Ben Kingsley.

Okay.

No, no, I just remember talking to him, and he was answering me. And I remember thinking, in any other circumstance, this guy wouldn't spit on me. Like, he would never talk to me.

Right.

At a party or at a premiere. But in this weird setting, I'm like, so, what about. And he's like. Well. And he's, like, giving a real answer. And it's such an odd, odd thing, interviewing somebody. Like people that normally would never acknowledge you now have to listen to you and actually think about how to answer your question. It's a weird psychology. And I remember that just struck me when I was talking to him because our worlds are so different. Like, he would never talk to me in real life.

Got it.

And I've never talked to him again.

Right. I see what you're saying, I can't.

Think of someone I wouldn't interview, but maybe if it was brought up in front of me, I might say, no. Yeah, I can't think of anyone.

I think I would just. I start to realize that some people will just use you.

You.

They. And you don't realize it. Like, I used to think, like, everybody just wants to come and they want to have a conversation and stuff. You can learn something about each other, but then some people just want to you, like, they'll use you to get their message out there. And I think I didn't realize sometimes that that's how things work.

Yes.

And so I think I've noticed that more over time. So maybe that would keep me out of certain conversations. You know, it depends. Maybe like with Yahoo.

You afraid that he would just use you to message?

I. I feel like his group is so calculated that they would be able to do it in a way that I wouldn't even maybe see it, you know, I don't know.

I think that all. Anyone in public life, especially in, like official politicians, congressmen, they all do this thing where they have talking points and they, they're very. They're masters at veering back to a talking point. And when they're bad at it, we hate them. Sometimes they're good at it and you don't realize they're doing it. But most times we're savvy enough to go, what do you fucking. To like, look, you know, you'll be like, yeah, but what about where they did find the dead prostitute in your closet? No, I know, but the thing with the economy is. And they're right back to talking about their. Like, you didn't answer the fucking question. That's why so many of them are so hateable. Because I think we've gotten a little bit better at seeing it now for sure. When they're back on their talking points. Yeah. And that's why, that's why I love the interview that we did with Trump, because it was just. It really was just a conversation about sports. And I would love to. I wish I had told him how much I love that he talked to Kim Jong Un. I didn't get to say that to him.

I wish I had. I just forgot shot afterwards. But we were saying our goodbyes and he was taking pictures with everybody. And I wish I had told him, like, I love that he went to North Korea and tried. Like, I love that he made an effort with that little short, weird guy and be cool. Huh?

You think UN is cool or what?

If you're a Chicago Bull. Yeah. Like, if you played for the Bulls. He's awesome, right? You know, if you're. If your uncle is in the military and made a questionable decision, you're executed. I imagine there's a downside to it. Depends on who you are.

Yeah. Dude, he looks cool.

Dude, he looks interesting to be like, here's what I would think with him. I would be afraid that I'd be in North Korea and there's a language barrier, and he would want to toast with alcohol, and I would try to tell him, like, I'm an alcoholic, so I'd have to refuse the drink. And that would start a whole you insulted the leader thing. Yeah.

You wouldn't know. I think sometimes, whenever you insulted them, I think that would be kind of. Yeah, something like that could be really mis. Mis. Skewed or something, you know, fascinates me.

The Sultan of Brunei, really, who owns, like, the Beverly Hilton. Like, that's like. That's a guy who lives that. That'd be a fun guy to know because he.

I might go to Dubai, Abu Dhabi for UFC in October.

Who's fighting for November?

I don't know what the card is.

I see what all the events, like, even if I'm home watching. I'm on the road. They always pant. You. You're always there early. I love you. Always there early. Yeah.

Well, I just get to see, like, you know, Chris Weidman was fighting on his retirement fight, I think was fighting on the. I suppose the main. It might have even been the first fight of the main card or something. But, like, I mean, there's just so many great fights. I just can't believe that people aren't there. These are, like, guys that are going in there and women that are giving it there. I mean, it's like, where are you?

I wish I scheduled better because they just announced, I think, Jack, Dalla, Madeleina, and. And Makachev at the. In the Garden in November. And I immediately look at my schedule. Schedule. I'm in Oregon, and I'm like, nothing against Oregon.

No. But it just hurts.

Yeah. I probably didn't say it right.

Yeah.

Oregon or the. You dumb state is. I'm coming.

What? Oh, you know what one of my favorite conversations was it ever had, honestly? It was with Louie. It was whenever we chose because we didn't know each other at all.

Right. Right.

And we la. Like, we just laughed and got to know each other, and then after that, we became closer. But that was one of my favorite podcasts ever Probably.

He loves you. And it's funny, your name came up while we, we were traveling and he's like, he's a really great guy. He just raved about you. I didn't know that he, you were going to be talking to him or I was going to be even. You were going to be seeing him this week. It was a nice surprise. Yeah. He's a special guy. He is. And he's, it'd be hard to be.

Him, I feel like, because he has so many thoughts and he's so able to like look around the corner of thoughts and possibilities. Like, I mean really to like ex. Like, it almost feels like it'd be scary to be him. He doesn't make any sense.

No, 100% because his brain operates so well. Like it's such an interesting and unique brain. Like he helped me fix a joke that I wound up doing in the special. He saw me doing it at the seller. He's like, you might want to say it like this. And I did. And it fixed it. It was better. Like, so when you have a guy like that, like he just sees something and he lasers in on it. And the material is so good, his new hour is so good. And he's changing the order every night, trying this, trying that, you know, yeah, he's, he's brilliant. Man, that word is overused on people. But he truly is brilliant.

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I did. Central Jersey.

Did you get to ever meet James J. Braddock or not? Who's James J. Braddock, the Cinderella Man.

Never met him. Where's he from in Jersey?

We may miss Bergen.

No, but that's not that far from me.

Joey Diaz used to shovel his driveway.

Is he dead or alive?

Joey's alive, but this.

No, I know Joey.

Yeah.

Yeah.

James, your Braddock is dead.

But if I didn't know Joey Diaz, that would be sucked. If he was dead, I was like, oh, sorry. I just talked to him.

Yeah, Braddock did that. Cinderella Man's the best. You've seen that?

I have. Have I seen that? I don't think I have.

Wow.

I don't think I have, no. And I was 6 when he died. I was. I was born in 68.

Oh, yeah. I didn't realize he died that early. Oh, you and Nikki got to watch. Put on some condoms and watch this thing.

Dude, condoms, Forget it. Not before, during, or after our marriage will ever use one of those bull. Those things when it be winded.

But, oh, this is my favorite movie. I just watched Silver Linings Playbook again. That movie's so good.

That was very good. Yeah. De Niro and Bradley Cooper.

I always watched Irish. The Irish. Mickey Ward movie, the Fighter.

I don't know if I saw that.

Oh, it's so good.

I think we've interviewed Mickey Ward, though, but I don't remember. I could see that. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he's still alive, right? He's out. I don't know what he was promoting. UFC guys, by the way, are the nicest of all the athletes to interview.

So funny.

I've interviewed. Boxers tend to be a little standoffish, a little too cool for the room. You keep the sunglasses on. But UFC 5, there's a humility to them. And Rogan said it's because, like, they get tapped a lot in the gym. When you're training, you're being submitted and you're submitting. So there's a humility there that you keep, because there's always somebody kind of getting the better of you, and maybe that's what it is. I don't know. But I like those guys. But the best.

I think that makes sense. Oh, yes. Getting to be around some of those guys. Dude, I accidentally called. I called one of the fighters stupid meal chicken. It was not him.

Oh, no.

And I asked a woman, I asked two UFC employees. I was. Is that Steve? Like, yes, that's him. And I went over to say, and it wasn't. It was Johnic.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And at. It was just scary for a minute.

Would you say hey, Stipe.

Yeah. I was like, hey, how's the retirement going? And I think he didn't want to. You know, if guy's not retired, he probably want to hear that. And I kind of, like, tickled him a little because I know Steepe a little, and it was just tough. But, you know, you win some, you lose some. He did give me a nice look later on that made me feel a little bit better. But just, you got to be care, like.

Yeah.

It's funny like. Like, it's almost like whenever you get too. Like, you're, like, around a pit bull for a little while at a party, like, oh, now we're buddies.

Yeah.

You just want to be a little careful sometimes around those guys.

You want to be a little bit careful because you never know what past trauma you remind them of in a minute when you do something. I had. I was in LA one time many years ago, and. And I walked up and it was. Patrick Swayze was coming out of a restaurant. So I walked up.

Was he handsome? Handsome?

Very. And I go, dude, I love you. Can we take a picture? I'm like, I'm such a. I'm such a fan, Patrick. And he goes, I'm not Patrick. And it was David Keith, and he was with a date. Whoa. That was embarrassing. That was embarrassing. I thought it was Swayze. It wasn't.

Oh, that is heavy. I could see that a little bit.

That was years ago. That looks like Robert Wool, actually. Oh, did I up? I just got nervous.

It was Keith David. You mean.

Oh, David Keith is one's black, one's white. Oh, David Keith. Sorry, did I say Keith David?

Click on Keith David.

Keith David's black.

If it was him.

Yeah, he was in Platoon. Mr. Swayze. Yeah. No, no, David Keith is white. He was in An Officer and a Gentleman. Dave. Keith is a great actor. Oh, yeah. I just panicked.

Oh, for sure.

I was just nervous. Keith David I met in an airport one time in lax, the coolest guy in history. He's wearing, like, a completely white suit and white coat with a white hat. Guy's just awesome. Yeah, he was also in that. That Michael Douglas was the movie Platoon. No, Spartacus. It was a drug movie where the girl. Requiem for a Dream, I think he.

Was in that movie was interesting.

Yeah. I think Jared Leto was in that, and he was really. Keith David is tremendous, but in Plat Tune, you know.

Yeah. That was a different time.

Yeah. That's embarrassing. I relate to that. It's humiliating.

Yeah. I'm trying to think. I know there's been something like that that I've had, but I think sometimes I just can't. I think sometimes my brain just shuts down.

Do you ever panic around people like that, like, where, like, my brain is not working, and I'm just, like, lost. And I'm like, I know I. I should be more comfortable, like. But they're famous or whatever it is.

Oh, yeah. Johnny Depp came to the Comedy Store one night, and it's still like, a moment of lore because it was like, Doug Stanhope brought him.

Yep.

And they were in the green room at the. In the main room, and everybody was in there. And I was like. I got there, and they're like, don't tell anybody Johnny Depp's here. And I knew when they were telling me, I was like, they've told everybody if they're telling me. And so I go back in there, and then all you notice, like, you don't even know who else is in the room. It was like, 50 people in this little room. And John. And then, like, I got to. Somehow got to say. I said, hello, Mr. Johnny Depp. And then I had nothing else to say, and it was very uncomfortable. And I realized I was just there for me, kind of. And I just got out of there.

Yeah. It's embarrassing because you want to say something, but sometimes a person's famous, and I like their work, but I don't have anything to say to them, like, hey, I admire your work. And that's kind of. You know, where do you go from there if you have nothing legitimate to say? And I. I've done that. I've humiliated myself.

But they got to be used to it, too. They're like. And some of them will be helpful to you. They'll kind of ask you something to put you back on your feet, you know, Know. Or someone will shake you and be like, you're not a son or whatever, you know, like, no one's ever shaken.

Me and said that. I've. I've tried to say that in the mirror, and I just w up laughing.

Jim has a crash chest dummy. Just. It's like one of those battling dummies, but he just uses. Give it uplifting, positive, semi homosexual, like.

You're straight, Jim. Yeah. Now you're not. Get back in there, Jim.

You're straight.

You can do it. You. It's not scary. It doesn't have teeth. Yeah. No, I. Oh, by. Here's my Johnny Depp story I was at. I got invited to. It was Ozzy's actual 70th birthday party. I got to go to that wow. In the US and it was at his house in Beverly Hills and it was amazing. There was a lot of great people there. And Johnny Depp was walking around and I was talking to him and he was very nice and I talked to him three or four different times. We took a picture and then I realized it was a Johnny Depp impersonator. Stupid. No show biz. Jim Norton, like my aunt again, I fell for was a Johnny Depp. 20 years younger than Johnny Depp, by the way. And I fucking fell for it. Hook, line and sinker all night.

You're over there.

I do it. I'm like Johnny Depp. I A picture I've gotten. Dice got me on the road years ago. We were on the road in like late 90s. He goes, that's Charlie Daniels. So I took a picture with this guy. It was just some hayseed in a cowboy hat. Oh, they got me so good. They got me. One time we were in the airport was an Opie and Anthony trip. We were going somewhere and one of the Jonas Brothers was talking to his dad. They were traveling. One of the. And I'm not a fan of the Jonas Brothers and I don't know their names, but I'm like, I got it. I'll take a picture with them. So I walk over and I just start Talking to this 15 year old kid and his dad and I. And I almost wanted to take a picture, if you don't mind. And I look and they're all laughing and I realize it's just some kid with his dad. I creepily approach some 15 year old. They're sitting in the airport eating lunch and some old blinking pederast looking guy wants a photo with this boy. Ice cough. Oh my God.

Cold coffee. And the Faust head. Is this nothing better than her head movements? Oh my God, she looks like the cop in Dog Day Afternoon. But yeah, that was. I've gotten, I've gotten. Got a few times like that thinking it's a celebrity. It's humiliating, but. But I deserve it.

Yeah. And we all need stuff like that, man. It's the stuff like that that, that just keeps you alive. I feel like.

Yeah. And when you get one of your friends and like I do, I do like the ability to like just go like you're an idiot. It's funny.

Yeah. Laugh at yourself. And what better thing to hit on a kid and also realize you're not a pedophile, Right?

Well, I wasn't, I didn't, I didn't Think he was cute. I just wanted a picture. I wasn't hitting on him. I didn't say to him, son, if you need to go to the restroom, may I escort? No, I was just trying to take a picture while they ate lunch, some kiosk at the airport. And the father, they looked at me like, what? And then I just happened to see Anthony and the rest of the guys laughing. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, they got me. I'm like, sorry. I just don't want to have a camera out. Jerk off.

Oh, my God, dude.

Yeah.

Oh, I don't know why. That's.

What.

That's. For some reason, just so perfect. That was one thing I was nice about before. Like, social media and everything. Like, like everything was possible. Nobody, in a moment's notice, you'd be like, that's not them. Or, this isn't possible. You could lie to people, but you couldn't lie to. But you could make stuff up. There was so much room for creativity and possibility and everything, because everybody didn't have all of the, like, hypothetical answers at the, at the, at their wing.

All information. Yeah, but looking at. Yeah, Like, I could have just Googled them and then seen. I, I, I imagine I could have at that point, either. I was just so thought it'd be so much fun to get a picture with one of the Jones bonus brothers. Yeah, I get pictures of people. I don't give a. I stopped doing that now as I'm older, but for a long time, I did it. It was fun.

And we had so many celebrities coming through your world, too, at one point.

There were a lot. Yeah.

I mean, that show was crazy to be in that lobby in that big building in New York, like, especially for young comics. You go there and there's, like, it looks like outer space when you get there downstairs the first time, if you haven't been in there, and it's those glass. Like, something turns green and it opens it up. But first you have to go talk to somebody who's usually a diversity hire. I'm gonna say it in a suit over there. Downstairs. And they would call up to somebody magically, somewhere. You would get the thumbs up. They give you a little barcode. And now you're like, the doors open and then bing. And it just. The elevator, like, almost is like, come in here. And then you. And then you go so high till your ears pop and you get out and, like, Evander Holyfield is in the lobby, or like, Doja Cat dad or Katy Perry. Everybody's waiting to go into some little enclave to get their voice out to the world. It was crazy.

It was crazy. And, and Stern was right down the hall too, so he would always have huge. Oh, Yeah, I nailed McCartney coming out of his studio one time I got a picture with McCartney. That was a big one. Pele. I got like, I've got. If they weren't there for my show, I still would. If they're in the lobby, I'm like, it's fair game. And usually they would take it, you know, because you're in that. It's kind of a cool closed environment. But yeah, that would, that was one. That was one. That's a good shot with us too. I've always hated how my dumb neck looks, but yeah, because I was doing it for a selfie and then McCarty goes, Let my guy do it. So I handed it to his security guy. He was actually very nice. And yeah, that's a great, a great shot.

That's a pretty good picture, man. It's very risky handing it to someone else too, because you have no control over what they're going to do.

No control. But because, because Paul suggested it, I knew the guy would do like, do as he was at, like, got it. It wasn't like I just handed it to some guy and I'm like, quickly. Yeah. You know, he asked the guy and he probably knew, like, let me just get this weird egg headed kid out of here and go about my day.

Yeah, this is a special needs adult.

It really. Yeah, it is. I, I don't look particularly mentally healthy there. Or handsome.

Did you feel like you were handsome when you were a kid or not?

Never really. No. I look back now, I was like, oh, was a cute little boy. I look back, I was like, yeah, when I was, I was, I, I get why a lot of the older kids saw my face and deserved that. We should hump that. I, I got it. I got, I got it.

Was there a lot of predators in your neighborhood and.

No, we were all in the same age group. There was maybe a couple, but no, we were, I, I, my, my therapist tells me I was molested, but I was like, yeah, I was kind of volunteering for it. I was there for it, for it. You know what I mean? Like, I was. Yeah, I don't think so.

I was hanging out on the mistletoe type of.

Yeah, I was, I was, I was in on it, you know. Oh, that's me at 17.

That's you.

That's me at 17.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. Young, Young urban gym with A lot of attitude.

Wow. I did not see this. You look like somebody that would work for Neil Brennan, you know what I'm saying? You look like a black. Like, definitely like a young wigger type of child.

Yeah, that. That. That hat really, really should have been removed from my head. White with the clockwork orange shirt. I didn't know what I wanted to be.

It's a. Yeah, yeah. You're doing a lot of things here.

That's why when I see people with these identity crisis, like, with. With the When. Especially when they're, like, political about or whatever. I understand the identity crisis. We all have them.

Yeah.

In time. And eventually you grow into who you are.

Oh, yeah, dude. I was doing the black thing for. As a while, for a kid. I did the, like, the Nirvana thing. Stone Temple Pilots, you know, I did all. All the things Marilyn Manson. I went down a lot of different roads. The religious, you know, like, different things. Just like, you were like, yeah, you're trying on.

You're trying stuff on. Like. And that was. I was into, like, the little white kid who thinks he's black. I was doing that long before it was fashionable, like in. In the 80s, like, you know, when. When Adidas still had fat laces and that was considered. Yeah, but then you grow out of it, and then you just kind of. Somebody said one time, like, instead of looking for who you are, just get rid of all the. That you're not. And whoever you are just shows up. And that kind of made sense. Like, just stop looking for it and just live and you'll find. But I see so many people in life now looking for an identity. That's what so much of the stuff is public, you know what I mean? People that are so adamant, always talk, always talking about the same thing. Always talking about the same thing. You're like, you want an identity. You just. You're looking to. You want a. A little prefab identity. Like, a little.

And do you think there's a way that we can get to know, like, so one of the things you just said is, like, get rid of the things that you're not. Right, sure. Like, yeah. How do we find our identity more? Because I wonder if we used to be better at that. I feel like if we used to have more of communication with, like, our parents, you know, like back in, like, almost like caveman time, something was there, something more that your identity was kind of shaped with just being able to survive. Right. And now we have this all this other, like, this. All this other fucking ornamentation that helps us get a reflection of ourselves. I just wonder if it was different Earth. How do, how do we find our identity better? I wonder.

Well, there's also no. There was less pressure then because now immediately everybody weighs in. So there's this pressure to weigh in so we don't drown. Like we want to just be above the above sea level. We just want to survive and be noticed and be alive. So there's no time for it. It's almost like that's why people have these again, these almost like big. Like when you see a house being driven down the street on the back of a flatbed, like that prefab, pre built house. That's how people are with politics and with social issues. There's no time to go looking for nuance. And it's like, okay, that's my, that's my. That's. That's who I am, right? And that's, that's what I'm associated with. Everybody's so afraid of being run over by all of it. So I think just don't, don't listen to what everybody else is saying. I don't give a shit what other people think about stuff. I don't begrudge them, but I don't care. Like, I have plenty of friends whose politics I totally disagree with. I don't give a fuck.

Did you always have a. Did you have a tough time when you were young, like finding your, like deciding, I'm going to make my own choice for myself. Can you bring me one more water, Trevin? We'll finish up in a couple minutes.

That's fine. I have to piss.

I didn't believe we've been going this long.

How long have the time?

Probably two hours.

What?

You want to pee really fast?

Can I? Yeah. Because I'm loving this chat.

There's a bathroom right behind that curtain.

Oh, okay. Awesome, dude.

One thing I noticed about having a pee, dude, is as I get older, that kind of is not fun. But here's what I notice is some of these underpants pants, the stuff on them is too tight. So all night your bladder has to pee. Even with just a little bit of liquid in it.

It's pressing all night. You're absolutely right. And also the fact getting fatter doesn't help. Like when I fly, I. I hate that feeling. Pressing on my bladder. I'll fly. Always wear sweatpants and no underwear when I fly. And it's not to be creepy. It's because this way I feel like I'm not as confined as I was. I I piss kind of constantly. So the fact that I can go for however long we've been talking without peeing. Every time I do Rogan, I gotta pee at least twice.

Oh, yeah. It's so hard in there.

Yeah. But I'll always just go, I gotta piss. And usually he does too. So it's not a big deal. But, like, sometimes you just talk right through it. You're like, I have to go to the bathroom. What am I doing?

Oh, and like, when you're riding the bag, when you're sleeping at night, you have to pee and you don't get up.

Yep.

That mesmerizing dark thing you do. You're like, I'm just gonna lay here.

Have you ever wet the bed is adult?

Oh, no. As a kid, I went to bed. Oh, I went to bed. I was probably 27.

I went once. Last time I did. I know I've done it more recently than that. I've done it since. My wife has been there too. A few times I've wet the bed.

Yeah.

But I don't care. I don't feel bad. Sam used to think I was crazy, but I'm like, it happens once in a while.

You sleep every night and you pee every day. You don't think they're gonna cross paths once in a while?

Yeah. Like two ships passing in the. Once in a while, they meat.

You think it's crazy.

Yeah. Once in a while you're asleep and you have to piss and you're like, I'm no. And you dream about being in a pool. You dream about being in the ocean and you wake up and there's urine on you. And I go right back to sleep. I'll throw a towel on it. Of course.

Yeah.

I'm not an animal.

I'll put a little sawdust on it.

A little something, and I'll lay into it. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. But I remember as a kid, I was so scared going to bed that I had to do all these checks and balances in my room because I didn't realize why I wet the bed for so long. Long. And it wasn't like, about six months ago, I was remembering. Oh, dude. Well, when you went to bed every night, you would have to, like, look and open a door, look in a closet, look at a certain way, lean something against the door on the inside. Then on the outside, you'd have to, like, look at certain, like, I. It was. It was no joke. It was probably a 13 minute process every night.

Were you afraid of.

I was just afraid of, like, people Getting in from outdoors, I was afraid of, like, killers, murders, these hypothetical kind of boogie men, you know, and we lived in, like, a kind of scary neighborhood. So I was just. I was just scared of all that. And. But I remember, like, dude, no wonder you slept in crazy fr. I would fall asleep like this or something. Couldn't cut my throat. I remember.

Really?

And it was so funny. I didn't for. I forgot about this, but for years I did that. And I was like, dude, no wonder.

With your hands, you sleep like that.

I would sleep like that because I didn't want something to cut my throat. I wanted to cut my hand first so I would know.

Right, right. Yeah, of course.

And I don't know what. What made me so scared.

Although if somebody was. Had the wherewithal to get in with a knife, they could have just taken a feather and tickled your nose and then you would have went like that, and then they could have just sliced the jugular. There's ways around that.

Yeah. I didn't think ahead.

Do you sleep on your back? I can't sleep on my back.

No. That's crazy.

Oh, you lay on your side.

Like, I'll lay on my side.

Yeah. Okay.

That I can do that, I feel like, is okay. I want to talk about Kill Tony. You've been labeled by some as one of the best Kill Tony guests, which is kind of rare because they hate everybody, kind of.

They do, yeah. They're. They're like old ONA fans too. They're just animals.

Yeah, they're animals.

They hate everyone. But I think I. I love doing that show.

Like you, You. You did the Garden?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. It was like a five or six minute standup set.

That's cool. It's tough to do there.

It is a different energy, man. And I. I did it last year, but they. They didn't film it for. They just kind of shot it for clips. But when you're doing the panel, I would rat, like at the mothership. I've done the panel a lot and I. I always like to give the. If I can give the comics a bit of advice. I try to. Because a lot of those guys are really terrible and a lot of them are really good, but they're just raw. And as a new comic, man, I was so fucking easily wounded that if someone made it seem like I really had nothing, I probably would have quit. So I always try to fuck around, and if I can say something that helps them, I try to.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

I think I remember now when you said that, I remember, like, one of the first nights I ever did comedy, maybe the third or fourth time, like, I started like down in New Orleans and Mark Norman was there, Dane Foshe, a couple. Some. Some local guys, Scotland Green, some different comedians down there and. But I remember the bartender said, hey, man, you did a good job. And just something like that little kept me coming back for the next two months, you know.

Yeah. Because somebody who. Who's in the know somebody who's in that scene recognized it and went, you're right. The bartender in a comedy club or in a comedy scene, they see every. Everybody. Yeah. So when they like you, you're like, all right, I must be doing something right. Because they see everyone who comes. There was a guy named Rob at Rascals. He was a bartender and he always liked me. And he was always like, yeah, you're really funny, man. And that gave me confidence back then because every comic came through there and the fact that Rob thought I was funny meant something. You know what I mean? Like, that's like when other comics respect you.

Oh, yeah.

You feel like I'm doing something right because the guys that are the hardest to make last half or the most critical about it, like what I'm doing. Yeah.

One night I was coming off stage and Bill Burr said something. I had to go on before him at the Dolby Theater. And I was so nervous. I'd never even been on a theater but stage before. And I did pretty good, right. Just went good and I was coming off and he's like, pretty good, man. You know, some. Some little. Even just getting him to. Even. Even if he just spit on my back, it would have, you know.

Yeah.

If he didn't come on one of my lay would have been like that.

Thank you. He's just multiple MIGs today. Yeah.

Have they had the audience stopped cheering, Clarice? But yeah, it would have been perfect, dude. But yeah, just. It's so funny. Little things like that. What do you think about Kill Tony and that whole, like, when you see that, what do you think about. Do you see it as a phenomenon? Like, do you see it as like a chain? Like, what do you think about it?

I think it's great because it gives a lot the people who badmouth it. It's like. It's really. It's honest. It's like these young guys are getting up on stage, some are brand new, and you're watching this minute process. Very hard to be funny in a minute.

So hard.

And I love the fact that Because Tony is so fast. Like, he really is quick. Like lightning fucking fast. And when he plays with people, sometimes they'll be terrible on stage, but they'll win him over in the interview. So he gives you a shot. You have a fair shot at kill Tony. No one can interrupt you a minute. And during the interview, if you have a comics brain and, and you're funny, you'll be acknowledged as being funny even if your set wasn't good. I don't feel like there's any bias. Like, hey, we're going to get this guy because he thinks this, or we're going to choose that guy because he thinks that.

I agree.

I think there's a very. It's a very honest formula. I love doing it and I just have a fun time when I do it. It's so pressure free and it's just fun to around and riff. It's like radio. Like, I love doing that show. Yeah.

And you get to be around other guys. Like you're saying, you know, you just get to be around another group of like comics. You're all together. There's the blind guy, there's the. Chris Rogers is doing art. You know, it's like. Or the black guy. They took his eyes out for being black or whatever. Which is. It's like, come on, dude. Those times have changed. But okay. And then Tony is. In a weird way, it's so perfect because Tony's almost always. He's kind of the bad guy. Right. He's the wizard, but he's also the bad guy.

Right.

Like so, you know, he's like. Because he's so, like, he can be so just cutting.

Yes.

That in the end, he's almost always the bad guy. And yeah, some of those people are setting themselves up for complete failure. Some of them just want a moment of that pain of being up there. And some of them, they're getting up there to try it and it's. It probably gets a lot of those bugs out of their. Just the nerves out of their system.

Yeah. If you could survive in that, it's a huge stage. Even if you're just doing the mothership, you still know how many people are going to see it. And he's a sniper. Like, you know what I mean? He picks up on everything. But if you're good, if he thinks you're funny, he'll. He won't like go, let me go trash this guy, because I have to. He'll acknowledge you as being funny and have a good time talking to you. So I think if you Go into it with that and, you know, like, hey, it can go either way. I think you're going to have a good time. But I couldn't have done it six months in. I would have been terrible horrified to do that show six months in.

Oh, it'd have been so crazy. And that just shows you that times are different somehow. I think with people seeing clips of things, the. The. The psychology of society changes and how people are able to be something. And I, like, when I was coming up, I couldn't just. I don't think gone and done that and known that. That many people could see it. It would have been way too scary.

Yeah, it would have been terrifying. But the balls on, like, because they see guys, like all these guys that are coming through. They're all doing well.

Yeah.

The ones that have kind of come through, you know, Cam Patterson is doing great.

He just made snl.

He did. Okay. I had heard that, but I didn't want to say it. I didn't know if they announced it yet.

He just took it. Please.

Good for Cam. Good. Yeah, I heard that last week. Good for him.

Tommy Brennan, Jeremy Culhane, Cam Patterson and Veronica Slow. Slowikowska.

Oh, that's great. Good. Yeah. I'm happy that they. That was official. I congratulate them. I'm like. I won't say, Ari, Maddie is very funny. Christina. Mariani. Lucas.

Mariani is very funny, too. Yeah.

Lucas, there's very. A good group of people there. And I know I'm Fiona Collie. I'm forgetting some people, so I apologize.

But the owner's from here, I think. Isn't she. She redheaded?

Yes. I don't know where she's from.

Is she. Does she seem like she's, like, in a wheelchair or whatever?

That. I did get that impression.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very definitively got that impression. When she reeled in. I was. Wasn't. I say she didn't seem like it. That. That, like, right now I seem like I'm in a wheelchair because I'm sitting here. But when somebody wheels in, you can say without reservation that person's in a wheelchair.

Just.

That was.

And blessings. Fiona. She should be on snl.

She's great.

She and I have actually worked together on the same show a few times. So I just. Yeah, I. Yeah, same. Yeah, definitely.

I like that whole crew. And they're all. They're all nice. Like. Yeah. You see them on the events now. They're getting real followings. So many of them. So it's. It's nice to see these, these young comics doing really well. And some, some people, I don't want anybody would begrudge those guys. It's like there's room for everybody.

Like, that's what Rogan always says. And that's one thing that I admire about him the most. He always says that there's room for everybody. There's room for all of us to lift each other up.

Yeah. Like, I'm not afraid of my spot. And like we all, as we get older, you feel like I suck, I'm worthless. Like it's, it's, it's just a part of what made me a comic to begin with. I mean, if I had great self esteem, I would not have gotten into this line of work. That, that part of me has remained the same. But as far as on other people or trying to keep other people down because of what they say or their belief, it's just such a weak thing to do. It's like, who the cares? Like, I, I don't care what other guys are talking about on stage, as long as you're not stealing material.

Yeah.

Whatever point of view you're talking about. Good. Make it funny.

Yeah, I don't even have time to think about that.

No, but guys do. You do the joke from the wrong angle. And people like, whoa. And I like because, and it's dishonest when people criticize that. It's not like, hey, I'm old and I can't handle young people being. It's that I think it's dishonest and, and like attacking other comics for material. Points of view is a way for you to climb. Socially. It's become one more way to climb the ladder.

Ladder.

It's not based. These purity tests are just one more way for people to climb the ladder. They give you a purity test, you fail, they climb a little higher because they gave the test. It's nonsense.

But that ladder has fallen so far down in society. I think people are just like, whatever that whole system was for so long is disappearing so much. You know, I think that's why it's like. Yeah, I don't know, people just make their own choices now. Like, who's going to listen to some article or some, you know, it's like, like I believe we're on a space where more and more it feels like people would make their own choices, but maybe not.

You hope so. I mean, and I've never, like, I, I never. No one changes my mind. Like, I, I think for myself. Like, everyone can say what they want because I I think for myself, like, people will say things about. Like when he says that they'll come after Rogan, what he says is dangerous. And I'm like, well, have you listened to him? And they're like, yeah. Did he change your mind? No. Well, then why don't you give everybody that credit? Like, people give themselves the ability to. To. To go through information intelligently, but they think the rest of the public are a bunch of blithering tards who can't do it.

Yeah.

And it's like, no, you're not the only one who can sift through information.

And some people don't operate, but do not make their decisions from information based on the analysis of the information. They base it on how the information makes them feel. And I don't think that those people are necessarily. One is necessarily more right than the other other. Sometimes.

Yeah. And it's hard to kind of, like, just tune it all out. I tried to. I. Like, there was years I didn't check at mentions on Twitter. Like, I just don't. I don't give a. What everybody's talking about. What's this? What does he say about that?

Gives a. I don't have time to.

Yeah, I don't. I really don't. I don't care.

Yeah.

It's not interesting to me.

Yeah.

Like, you know, if it's a friend and I'm talking to him, sure. But do I care who other people vote for? Like, it is of no relevance to me whatsoever. I don't know how people. And, like, if you say something good about Trump, but there's policies he has that I very much disagree with. But, like, you say anything good about, like, he's a. How could you? It's like, shut up.

Right.

Take your little identity hat off. Just be a person. Have a conversation.

What do you think about this stuff? Like, in D.C. they just had where they. They want to clean up some of these cities, and they're using the National Guard, which I've always thought is like, you know, police are in this tough space where everybody's filming them, and it's like, it feels like they need more support somehow. A lot of cities have become overrun with crime. Trump's use of National Guard in Los Angeles was illegal. Judge rules.

Yeah, I know. Brandon Johnson in Chicago is not for it. He's the worst mayor in the country. Is he awful?

Chicago's mayor pushes back as Trump administration readies immigration crackdown. Let's see what they say. Chicago's mayor's limited house. How much a city's police department can cooperate with federal immigration agents in response to threats from the Trump administration to ramp up immigration enforcement operations in the city. So it's just about immigration.

And like they did, I don't know, they, they didn't want National Guard helping with immigration. Like, they didn't want to help National Guard with immigration or troops. But if they're just doing it to control crime, it's like crime is. It's a mess.

I agree.

As long as they're not interfering with. With people's comings and goings, if they're just patrolling the streets and giving the police some assistance. You know, most of the people who are against these policies, a lot of them don't live in those neighborhoods. A lot of them can leave their house without being fucking worried about being robbed by somebody selling drugs. So I think if it keeps people safer, as long as you're not infringing on their right to do anything. Yeah, but, you know, I have a real salt. Look, here's the reality. The most important thing Trump has done is he is. He is honoring kids. This at the Kennedy Center. And I'm going to tell you, there's nothing that has made me happier than any politician has ever done.

Is he really doing that?

Gene, Peter, Ace and Paul, the original four members are being honored at the Kennedy Center. Nothing has made me happier than that. I love him. I love that he did that. I would hug him.

I mean, he does a lot of interesting stuff, man. And I hope that some of his plans for the country and stuff are good, you know, like, I hope we see a lot of the things that he, you know, kind of tried to campaign on. And I think it's just really interesting when guys. Guys campaign and then when they get in office, I bet things are way different and we don't know what those things are like, you know, But I hope that he has a lot of long term, like, beneficial things for the everyday American.

You know, I bet you Obama was very disappointed, like, because he was like a young, not too tainted by politics guy, but, like, he was still a relatively young guy.

Yeah, I voted for him.

And he had all these hopes and dreams and then you get into it and you're like, oh, this is. There's a lot of muck and glue and things. I bet you that his idealism somehow got squashed a little bit when he saw how it really worked from being deep in it. And these things that you think you're going to fix, you can't.

Yeah. What does it say here what affected Trump's crackdown on crime in Washington, D.C. led to a significant drop in reported violent crime and property crime. It also generated controversy, strains on the legal system, and a dramatic increase in immigration related arrests. Violent crime fell by about 49% compared to the same period the previous year, with overall property crimes and car theft also down by 30 to 40%. I wonder if they're just using this as a ruse, though, for ICE and immigration.

Yeah, I don't know. I think that there's a genuine desire in cities that have really high crime rates to bring it down.

Down, please.

I think people's biggest concern is they want to be able to leave the house. People care about abortion, they care about all this, but people want to be able to leave the house and go to work without being hit over the head with a pipe. Like, you know, I mean, there is, there is a really basic desire to want to get in your car without it being stolen at gunpoint. Like these things that we take for granted so many times. Violent crime, to me, because it's such a, an avoidable thing.

So avoidable.

It's so avoidable. So if he's using these forces the way he says he's using them, I have no problem with it. And I don't want to see, look, illegal immigrants who are housekeepers, who are just out working, who are, whatever they're doing, like they're out building houses, they're out.

I have no problem contributing, being, being some, some great members of America.

There are people who just want a better life. Like those people. I don't want to see kicked out. I know they're here illegally, but I still have empathy for someone doing that. But as soon as you commit crimes and like you commit a violent, a felony or even an assault out. Yeah. I mean, that's it. There should be no second chance. I mean, if you're lucky enough to be here, don't commit violent crimes. I mean, I don't think that's crazy.

Yeah. And especially if as a regular citizen here, if you commit a violent crime, that you're held to a certain standard, you know.

Yeah. You're going to jail.

Yeah.

You're not being released immediately. Yeah.

I think there's a lot of holes. It's, it's tough. I don't know, man. You know, and we just try our best and you try your best just to show up for yourself every day and your new wife and.

Yeah. Not be a bad boy on the road.

Yeah.

Talking to her.

Is that tough?

It is, because, again, but it's not like there's one specific thing. It's tough because it's. Addiction is selfish. And like, it's, it's about, it's about getting high and it's about feeling that rush. So, so many times you want to do things just to get away from yourself.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I, I, I. I'm not happy with how I look.

I'm happy I'm gonna jerk off or I'm gonna. Yeah, yeah.

And I do that too much. I mean, I really do. I mean, up and down the east coast, there are towels that probably should not be used by another person. My apologies to any guest who's drying off and your back gets scraped up because the towel is too, too rough. That's my bed.

It's tough times out there.

Yeah, it really is tough times, but it's. It's not, you know, what do they say? I'm not the man I could be or should be, but I'm not the man I was like, you know, my life is better now. I'm happily married. I mean, despite being annoyed at times of being married. I, I love the fact that my wife enjoys when I joke about us on stage. She's not sensitive about, like, you know, I mean, I, I just.

Right. You can be free in your relationship.

Yeah, she loves it.

And we all send videos of, like, jerking off and stuff like that.

Or.

No. Do people do that?

No, I mean, some nude photos and videos. But that's cool. We live together and, like, that's the one thing when you're married that perverted stuff.

Right.

Sometimes. Because you can hook up whenever you want.

Right.

But if I asked her for a video jerk at all, she'd probably send it to me. She has in the past.

That's nice.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll ask her.

Eddie Money showed me some pictures of his new wife one time on a plane.

Nude.

Pretty nude.

Whoa. I like Eddie Money. He's dead now, unfortunately.

Dude. He said he hit a can of Huff one time so hard that one of his legs quit working.

Really?

Yeah.

He was a fascinating guy. He overdosed. Survived a lot of stuff. Was his wife look good naked?

Pretty good.

I'll show you my wife's pain this if you want me. She wouldn't care. She wouldn't care.

Oh, dude. Maybe just do a drawing of it for me.

Okay.

All right. You think?

All right.

Just showing. I'll kind of go like this a little. All right.

I won't show it on camera just because.

Just show it to me. I don't want to See all of it at once.

Oh, yeah, yeah. She's. I can't show it all on camera because she's a lady. She wouldn't care for that. No lady wants to penis shown completely on camera.

Oh, for sure, dude. I don't even want to fucking look at it.

I won't show it to you if you don't know.

I'm okay. I, like.

Let me see.

Hold on.

You can. I won't just. I won't just hit you with it.

Yeah. This won't surprise you. Don't be like, let me find an.

Acceptable photo that she would be. That she would be proud of. Okay, now that she wouldn't like that. That's a video. I'll find one for you.

Yeah. Take your time. I'm gonna think about something else for just a minute.

All right. You want to see?

Yeah, hold on.

Okay.

Yeah. Whoa, brother.

What?

Oh, my God, Jim. Your wife has that.

That's my lady. That's my best gal.

Wow, that is a. That is a tall.

She's a tall lady. She's a tall lady.

Oh, that thing's in 4H, huh?

Yeah.

Oh, you got to spray some Roundup on that.

Yeah. God.

Yeah. You got to get back home.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes I need a break. You know what I mean? Your body collects and you're like, I mean, I'll take a little break. You know, Bro, you could freaking scratch.

You could file your nails down that day.

Yeah. Oh, but it's. But it's funny. It's like. It really is. That's the main difference in the relationship. It's like, compared to other women I've dated as a person, there's no difference. Like, our life is the same as anybody's life. Thank God she has a sense of humor. I love that she has a sense of humor. I love that she. You have to have that. Yeah. But some don't. I've dated people who would get mad if I talked about certain things, and I've even gone out with trans girls that would be very mad at me just doing that. So.

Yeah. At least she has a good sense of humor, Man.

If she didn't, I wouldn't have done that. Like, I'm around, but, yeah, that's cr.

I mean. Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, I would never even look at some guy's wiener. But it's a woman's wiener.

Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on. People look at that differently, too. Like, there's a lot of people that are very anti that label being put On. On trans women. But I. I think that, you know, know, if you. If you spend any time with my wife, it's just. It's not a man's brain. And people are like, dude, just admit it. You're gay. We don't care. I understand why people say that.

Yeah.

And I. I really do. Like, I get it. And again, I couldn't prove the point in court because it. My. My partner has a penis. Like, there's no way around that.

Yeah.

You know, unless you have a long way to. Time to walk or a small ladder.

But, you know, that seemed like a woman's wiener to me.

Well, yes, that's how I look at it. I mean, but. But I understand why people say, just admit you're good. But it's. There's a difference. And I can't describe the difference, but I understand the difference internally. If I was a homosexual at this age, I would tell people, I don't give a. Like, if.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I. It's not a. That I'm running away from saying something that people think I should say. You know, sometimes I miss vaginas. I mean, I like them.

Yeah.

But.

But hey, here we are. Are.

Here we are. And happy.

And happy. There you go, brother. Oh, yeah. That thing is a damn. God, that thing's a damn lunchable. You got going on.

Yeah, yeah. You got to respect it.

It's a real meal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone's got to respect that. Like, even somebody who's not into that lifestyle would go, you know what? Round of applause. You know.

Yes, sir. Yeah. Unconceivable. Is. Is on YouTube now. And always, thanks for all the information, Entertainment man. Thanks for welcoming me on your show. Thank you. And giving me a chance to just. Just get to ever even be on a radio show and make it fun and. Or on a podcast. You guys were kind of in that early realm. It was kind of a hodgepodge in there.

It was. It was. Yeah. I mean, podcasting. I remember Mark. Myron used to. Occasionally when he was in town, if he needed a studio to interview someone, he would use our productions to. Like, we were there at the very, very beginning and good luck. I didn't see it coming. I mean, I knew it was going to be popular, and I had a radio contract. Contract. But I didn't. I wish I had jumped on it earlier.

Yeah.

But I wasn't allowed to. I had a exclusivity contract. But whatever. Who gives a. Jim. Yeah.

Well, you've been. I think you've done the best job of being Jim Norton, man. From an outsider perspective, it's been interesting. You're. I think you're an inspiration for people to try and figure out how to best be themselves. I know it's a journey for everybody, but I think it's cool, man. I think it's interesting. You seem like kind of like a person that's kind of brave in the world. World.

Well, I appreciate that, but I. It really is. And. And none of my. I haven't lost any friends over my life, like, you know what I mean? Like, whoever doesn't, like, I wouldn't. There's no one I wouldn't cut loose.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? I have my friends. I have no shame in that part of my life and who I love, like.

Oh, yeah, it doesn't seem like it at all.

It's. It's a fun life, so I'm very lucky. I appreciate you having me on, man. I love what you do.

Yeah. I gotta come do yours before the end of the year.

Yeah, I would love that. I would really love that.

We'll make it happen, man. Thanks, Jim Norton. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Theo. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones but it's going to take a little.