Transcript of Tucker Carlson Interviews Nick Fuentes

nick Fuentes. Thank you for doing this. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I wanted to meet you. I've heard about you.

I've heard about you.

Thank you. I want to understand what you believe, and I want to give you a chance in a minute to just lay it out, not what you're pivoting against, which are a lot of the same thing. I agree with you on some of the things you're pivoting against for sure. But what do you affirmatively believe? So I just want to stand back and let you explain it. But first, I want to understand how you got to where you are, how you nick Fuentes. So here's, this is my understanding of your life arc. And tell me if I'm wrong. You show up at Boston University. You grew up in a suburb of Chicago, working class, suburb of western suburb, and you show up at Boston University in the fall of 2016 at the height of the battle between Trump and Hillary. It's like this pivot point in history. And you show up with a MAGA hat and you have a Trump hat and you have basically off-the-shelf Republican views? Yes.

Describe the views that you had then, and then describe what happened. Yeah. So when I was in high school, I was very political. I was reading a lot of the libertarian stuff, Austrian school, Chicago school, economic-type literature, because that's what was popular at the time. If you went online in the mid, early 2010s, that's all the conservative content there really was. That was the most extremely online- Libertarian economics. Well, yeah, basically, the remnant of the Ron Paul Revolution, the Young Americans for Liberty, Prager U, which skews a A little more, I guess, conservative, but very basic small government, individualism, libertarian type stuff.

So you watch Prager U videos?

Oh, yeah. I was in the Prager Force.

What's that?

It's a Facebook group for college kids, and they promote the Prager U videos. Wow. That's for the college students and high school students.

So you really were a product of the moment?

Absolutely.

And how did you feel about Trump?

Well, initially, I didn't like Trump. When the primary started in 2015, I considered him to be a statist, which sounds so ridiculous now.

No, a lot of people thought that.

Yeah. I was a libertarian, so I saw him as a big government, 1990s liberal. When he He's asked about health care. He said, Well, we'll take care of everybody. I said, I'm a Rand Paul guy, Ted Cruz guy. Those were my people back in 2015. You liked Ted Cruz? I was a Cruise missile.

Does Cruz know that?

I don't think so, no. I I was actually on his campaign.

You were on the Ted Cruz campaign?

I don't know if I was on the campaign, but I door knocked in a little village in Chicago, in McKinley Park for Ted Cruz.

No way.

In the Illinois primary.

Did he write you a thank you note?

No, I didn't get a thank you. He lost, so I guess.

Yeah, he did in a very humiliating way. Wow, that's amazing. What happened?

I, like everybody else in 2016, went through this ideological awakening. First, I shifted to Trump. The first realization that I had is it started in 2016, actually, because the primaries started in '15, around April or May, I think, was the first announcement. I had very negative feelings about Trump, and like I said, pro-Ran Paul, pro-Cruise. When the actual Iowa caucus happened and the primaries began, I saw that Trump was dominating. Every night in the Super Tuesday, when they had all the big contests, one after the other. I remember the media was furious that he was winning one after the other. I remember thinking to myself, structurally, if I'm a libertarian or a conservative, and we want to change the country, we have to win elections. If you want to win elections, you have to bypass the media. I had this realization that the media was really standing in the way. They were the problem. I had this realization that all the Conservatives and Republicans up to that were afraid to take on the media. They, like Mitt Romney, would cower before them and were so apologetic and so weak. And so initially, I said, I actually don't ideologically agree with Trump at all.

But he will destroy the liberal media or at least their monopoly on thought and opinion, and then a breakthrough can occur. So that was the first hump. And I said, I could get behind Trump because he's a winner. He'll win for our side. That was the first big thing. Then as I listened to him more and more, his speeches and his rhetoric, I started to think about immigration.

Which you hadn't really considered before?

Never. The reason why is because I was from a 95% white suburb. So the diversity had not really reached my corner of Chicago yet. Me and my family, not so much my family, they grew up in the city, but growing up in the suburbs, I was insulated from that. So it was just not even... It's actually, you're going to love this. I don't know if I've ever even said this on an interview before. I was listening to Marc Levin's show. This goes to show how normy I was.

Actually?

I listen to him every day.

You listen to Marc Levin every day?

In high school, yes. Wow. I was a fan. I loved his show, and I actually liked how he was obnoxious and mean to his callers. Yeah. Vicious. I liked that. I thought that was funny. But I'll never forget one show, He goes live and he says, America is becoming a majority non-white country. Does anybody think that's a good idea? I was thinking to myself, yeah, that actually doesn't sound so good. I didn't really even think that America is becoming a majority a minority like that.

Wait, so you were radicalized on Race by Marc Levin?

Yes.

Are you making that up?

That's a real story. Amazing. He planted the seed, at least. Then I saw a graphic on 4chan or Twitter, and I'm sure you've seen something similar. It said, this is what the map looks like, the electoral map. If only men vote, if only women vote, if only Whites vote, if only non-whites vote. And it became very obvious what the electoral problem is. It's demographics. These immigrants are coming here. They're going to turn Texas blue like they turn California blue.

Yeah, I saw it happen.

Yeah. And you look at even the opinion polls. These people don't believe in free speech. They don't believe in the Constitution. The Second Amendment is libertarian. The things that are, and as American, things that are important to you. They don't believe, they don't understand these things. And so I said, that's another political obstacle. You've got the media, you've got immigration. So I'm thinking like, Well, we're going to vote for Ted Cruz. He's going to be the constitutionalist. We'll vote for Ann Paul. He'll be the libertarian. But what stands in the way of political power for us, it's the media and it's immigration. So I said, Well, we got to get Trump to beat the media, build the wall, deport the illegals. And once we set the country straight, then we can actually have our Constitutional Republic back. That was the idea. And that's the mindset that I had going into college.

Amazing. So then what happened?

So I go to college, and I'm just, at that point, a huge Trump supporter. And you got to understand, for me, for my generation, so I was 18. I turned 18 in August, 2016. And to us, Trump- That's amazing. Yeah. Well, because we're like the first generation that was influenced by Trump coming of age in that moment.

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That's transformative. For us, he was like the savior of Western civilization. We looked at him as like, and by we, I mean me and all the online kids, teenagers that supported him, we really believe the hype. Like, Teflon Don, he could go into any scenario and win. He was unstoppable, unflappable. Nobody could score points on him. He just seemed like, they said, you can't stump the Trump. He could not be stumped. And so he just had this aura of inevitability, of invincible. And I love that. And so I went to Boston University. I got on campus in September, and I was wearing my MAGA hat everywhere in the dining hall, walking down the street. And it's a city campus. You're walking down Commonwealth Avenue, and you're in the city of Boston, which is super liberal. And at that time, it's different than it was now. People were getting fired for wearing MAGA hats. People were getting punched in the face. It was like, Being a Trump supporter, it was out there actually back then. It was controversial. It was controversial everywhere, not even just in liberal Boston. But I was wearing my hat everywhere, and I was just getting accosted constantly.

In the dining people come up and yell in my face. Some Black girl in a hijab ran up to me and said, You know what you're supporting? You're racist. And I'm trying to get my pizza. I'm trying to get my oatmeal or whatever at the dining hall. This was happening constantly. I was going then on Twitter, and I had a small Twitter account with my real name and face, and I had maybe 200 followers, and I'm posting about my experiences. I caught the attention of a lot of people on campus for wearing the hat, for posting on Twitter, and they found my Twitter.

You've only been there like a month?

Less. Weeks. Maybe three weeks. This is starting to kick up. And I catch the attention of my peers, and they start going at me on Twitter and giving me death threats. We're going to kill you. How dare you? If I see you, I'm going to beat your ass, that thing. And this is my first experience with this. Now we're all desensitized to it, but that was my first run. And with this intensity from the left, So I find a police report, I get real nervous. When you're a student, you can't really avoid other people. You're in a dorm room, so you're vulnerable. Anyway, long story short. So one of these guys from the campus, Liberties, libertarian group, Young Americans for Liberty, he reaches out to me and says, Hey, I'm not going to say his name, but he goes, I go to a school in Boston. I'm from YAL, he said, and I'd like to set up a debate with you and one of these people that's been giving you a hard time on campus because they were doing a lot of events. He said, Is that something you're interested in? I said, Absolutely. And so he goes around and he asks some of the bigger people that are antagonizing me on Twitter, and everybody says no.

And he goes, Yeah, no one's going for it. I said, Well, can you try again? Can you? He finds one guy, and it turns out to be the student body president of the whole university. It'll be you. Yeah, the senior, this liberal douchebag progressive. He's the student body President of the student government there. We set up the debate. It was about a week before the actual elections. I think it was end of October, beginning of November. They hold it in this auditorium in the center of the campus, and 300 people show up. It turns into this huge... And they're all liberal. They all hate my guts. They're heckling me the whole time. They're yelling at me. We do this debate about Trump versus Hillary. As I'm there and I'm pro-Trump, and I say, I think Trump's I'm going to win. I'm straight up like, ripping the Ben Shapiro talking points. I'm saying, it's got everything to do with culture and nothing to do with race and diversity is a problem and all this. I decisively win the debate. It's like not even close. The debate wraps up and this girl, who I think I talked to her on Twitter once or twice, comes running up to the stage after the debate, and it's Cassie Dylan.

At this time, she's a fellow at Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro's company. Like I said, I barely knew her. She comes running up and she says, Oh, my gosh, I livestream this debate on Periscope on Twitter. She said, And 30,000 people watched it, and you have five job offers. You did incredible. I said, Wow, I don't know what to say. That's great.

She goes- You're 18 years old.

Yes. It's happening very quickly for me. She goes, Do you want to do a post-game interview after the debate? I said, Sure. She asked me about how I thought the debate went and what my views are and things like that. Very normal stuff. Then at the end, she says, I just got back from doing study abroad in Israel. She goes, and it was amazing. Would you ever take a trip to Israel? I said, No, I think I got everything I need right here in America. And she goes, Oh, okay. And she wraps up the interview, and that was a little bit of foreshadowing. And this begins a relationship, not a romantic relationship, but we We become friends and we start talking. And she's plugged in, like I said, a daily wire. She's talking to people at Right Side Broadcasting Network, the College Republicans. I start to develop this friendship with her. And over time, she lands me this show on Right Side Broadcasting Network. And in this time, I'm really starting to lean into America first. I'm becoming more pro-Trump as time goes on. And what really stood out to me was Trump's inaugural address in January 17.

So this was just a couple of months later. And in Trump's inaugural, he says, Famously, a new vision will govern our land. It's going to be only America first, America first. I said, That's me. That's what I believe. I'm an American Nationalist. Me too. Fully at this point, not even a conservative. There was one thing that happened just before that that really struck me as strange. I've told this story before. I'm not going to spend too much time on it, but suffice to say, Barack Obama in the lame duck period, so the Democrats lost the election. He's on his way out. There's a resolution in the Security Council condemning the settlements the settlements in the West Bank in Israel. Typically, the US Delegation will veto those resolutions, condemning Israel. Well, Obama's on his way out. He's got nothing to lose. So the US Delegation abstains from the resolution, and it passes. Fox News and all the pro-Israel Conservatives are calling him an anti-Semite. They're saying, He hates Jews. He's an anti-Semite. He hates Israel. I saw that, and it struck me as strange because it seemed hypocritical. It seemed like how when Conservatives would critique anything about race, we got called racist, or anything about feminism, we got called sexist.

All Obama did was uphold US policy on the West Bank that we've had since '67, which is we don't support the settlements. I said, How is it anti-Semitic to just be consistent on our US foreign policy? Like I said, which is a Republican-Democrat consensus. I got attacked for this. I wrote a big article about this. I tweeted about it. I tweeted to Ben Shapiro. I said, I've never seen anything on the Daily Wire that's actually critical of Israel. He quote tweets me. At this time, I have a thousand followers on Twitter. How old are you? I'm 18.

I'm a freshman. You're still a freshman in college? Mm-hmm.

This is even before I started my show. I don't know, I probably got 100 likes on this tweet. It wasn't a viral tweet. He quote tweets me and says, To accuse a Jew of dual loyalty is the surest sign of anti-Semitism. This is how it begins. I see this tweet, and by the way, that was on Christmas Eve in 2016.

He immediately called you an anti-Semite.

I'm driving to Christmas Eve Mass with my family, I see on Twitter, the notification comes up, Ben Shapiro quote tweets me, calling me an anti-Semite. I was like, What is this? Why is this guy attacking me? Because I don't have a platform at this time. I'm not an influential guy or anything. Then I put out another tweet, similar. I said something like, If you're China first, you should live in China. If you're Mexico first, you should live in Mexico. If you're Israel first, maybe you should go live in Israel. And again, he quote-tweets me and says, You're an anti-Semite.

That same night?

This was, I think, a couple of weeks later. Happened a little bit further down the line.

Were you surprised that he knew you were?

Yeah, I was. I was surprised at why he cared. Because I'm thinking, how does he even know who I am or what I'm about? And it turned out that Cassie Dylan, she had texted him earlier, and she wanted him to take me his wing. She texted him after that debate and said, You really like this guy. He's amazing. He did this great debate. She goes, But he's a little too pro-Trump. He's a little too Trumpy. He goes, I'll take a look. I guess the two of them were like, grooming me in a sense. They wanted me to go maybe and be a Daily Wire or maybe looking me as a potential conservative activist or influencer. And so they started paying attention to me. And the more critical of Israel I was, I started to get this really intense pushback from the both of them and from a lot of the people at Daily Wire.

Why do you think... So you're an 18-year-old college freshman, you're clearly talented and you're engaged, you're really interested, and you ask not crazy questions. Like, what is this? And rather than explain it, they just call you a racist, call you an anti-Semite. That's the first response. That seems like the least effective. Well, it turned out to be not very effective in your case, but that seems like the least effective thing you could do. Why do you think they did that?

Well, I think that you have to look at it not in retrospect, because hindsight is 2020. And so looking back, you could say they made a terrible mistake because look at what they provoked or what they catalyzed. But at that time, you got to consider, I'm 18 with no following, with no network. I'm coming from the suburbs of Chicago. My parents didn't go to college. I have no connection And so for them, it was very easy that if they detected that a promising young guy was going to become anti-Israel in the conservative movement, they could crush that person easily and grind them under the heel. So they were alerted, Oh, there's a precocious young guy that isn't on board with Israel. We'll keep an eye on him. And if he gets too vocal or popular, we'll cut him down, we'll crush him. Because at this time, as you know, in 2017, it's a very different time. 2016, '17, any criticism or dissent on the subject was a death sentence. You became radioactive, unhirable, blacklisted, and that's exactly what happened. And basically, from then on, it was just this escalating series of blacklisting, censorship, hit pieces, rumors to try to ostracize me from the movement.

While you're a college student? Yes. As a freshman, yeah.

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You will love it. So looking back with that 2020 hindsight, I mean, Ben Shapiro seems like a big part of your political evolution.

Yes.

You went from a fan/accolade to an opponent and then just pivoted against everything that he believes.

Yeah. Because it was this new dialectic that Trump forced, Trump planted the seed.

And the seed was America first. Yes. So once you accept that, a lot of the way we're doing things becomes impossible to support or justify.

Right. The contradiction becomes apparent. It gets moved to the center, and it becomes unignorable if you're consistent.

So what efforts did they make to make you go away?

So this is a couple of months down the line. First, they would try to dissuade me from asking questions. Because I was friends with a lot of the Daily Wire writers, not just Cassie Dylan, but many of them were Jewish. I would ask them point blank. I would say, so why do we give Israel all this money, $3. 8 billion per year? What is that for? They would say, Well, there's a really good answer for that, but you're asking it in the wrong way. You're asking it in an anti-Semitic way. I'd say, I'm asking for the proof. What's the argument there? So first it was the Hey, man, could you tone it down? Maybe just don't bring that up so much. But I was persistent because at this time, I was genuinely inquisitive. I wanted to know, is there an actual reason? I was actually expecting that there was a really good reason for all of it. The more that I read, the more that I dug into the subject, the more I found out there's a lot of these neocon Jewish types behind the Iraq war. There's the foreign aid complex, which is really unique.

There's APAC, which is this intense foreign lobby where it's bipartisan. It seems to be the only thing that the parties can agree on. It just made me burn more with curiosity. I just kept asking them, and eventually they said, You know what? We're not going to talk to you anymore. And these are my friends. I met them, went to Christmas parties with them, and all of them one day said, You're done. We're blocking you. We're never going to speak to you again. We're never going to have you on our show. I said, Wow, this seems like I'm struck by how impersonal this is. Here, I thought we're friends, we're all Conservatives. Maybe we disagree on one issue. Now I'm being canceled by the right. So I was shocked by this.

When was this?

This was February or March, 2017.

So you're still a freshman in college? Yes. Are you even paying attention to college at this point?

No, not at all. And my grades started to suffer because I was just really focused on this.

So That's pretty young to get canceled and pretty young to have friendships destroyed over politics. That's usually decades down the line. What did you do?

Well, I just became more emboldened. I took this story on my show. At this time, I was on RSPN, and I had this show, which I named after the inaugural. It's called America First. I would subtly bring up the Israel topic and say, This is something you're not allowed to talk about. This seems like an apparent contradiction. It's big problem. They escalated their attacks. Cassie Dylan would call my boss, who she was friends with, at RSPN every day for weeks, saying, You'll never believe what nick said on his show tonight. It's so racist. It's so bad. You got to take them off the air. It's going to make you look bad. I would then get word from my boss, Joe Seals. He was the founder at Right Side. He would call me up and say, I don't know what has gotten into Cassie. I thought you guys were friends, but she is calling me every day, hysterically, demanding that I fire you. I was like, wow. It just keeps getting worse. It starts with this like, they're very weird about the subject. Then they don't want to talk to me. Then they're trying to get me fired.

I'm thinking, okay, so clearly what I'm asking about, there's some truth there that they don't want.

I should have asked you this earlier. Did anyone, during the course of pre-cancelization, say to you, here's Here are the reasons. You're not asking the question correctly, but there are reasons that our foreign aid to Israel is so high. Here's what they are.

They did. But in a very general and vague way, as you know, it's never specific. They would say things like, well, there are partners in the Middle East. There are democracy in the Middle East. Just as very vague. It's rhetorical. I read the Israel lobby by Mir Scheimer and Stephen Walt, and they break it down very succinctly that there's no real strategic benefit. Actually, there's strategic liability. Eastern Mediterranean is not a strategically important region. The intelligence that Israel provides is not useful. Actually, it's detrimental because they frequently lie. The technology we give them, they pass along to the Chinese, which was a big scandal. I would give them all this and say, Yeah, that's not adding up. They would say, Yeah, well, you really just can't talk about that.

Your friend said that to you? Yes. Wow. Okay, so what happened to your job? The right side broadcasting gig.

Eventually, I got fired. I got kicked out.

Why?

Because one of these clips that Cassie Dylan had a problem with, she ran it up the flag pole. She took it to Media Matters, actually, which is a left-wing outfit. They're like a cancel mill.

Wait, the Daily Wire person took it to Media Matters? Yes. Are you sure?

I'm 99% sure.

What was the clip?

It was a clip, ironically, where I was talking about the travel ban, the so-called Muslim ban, and I was defending it. I said that the First Amendment does not protect foreign nationals. It doesn't protect Salafists, Wahhabis. I said, They're saying that there's a constitutional right for radical Muslims to come here. I said, how are they protected by the First Amendment? They're foreign nationals. The authorial intent of the First Amendment was actually not even to protect that to begin with. It's anti-christened, radical ideology. It's something, ironically, that probably Shapiro and Cassie would agree with, but they recognize the currency that a clip like that would have with the left, because the left could say, You're Islamophobic. You're racist.

So she brought that to the left saying, Look at this guy. It's not that he's anti-Israel, but he's anti-Muslim. Yes. That's very interesting. Yes. And so that clip appears in Media Matters, which at the time, I was subject of a lot of attacks from them at the time. And people listened to them.

Yeah.

Including on the right, they listened to them.

Yes.

So what happened?

I had to write an apology. My boss called me up and said, you need to apologize for what you said.

For being anti-Muslim? Yes.

I didn't write, I'm sorry, but I had to write something like, Well, I should have chosen my words more carefully, and this, that, and the other. And ultimately, then they fired me. Anyway. A couple of weeks later, Yeah.

And what was the pretext for that?

Well, they wanted to get in the White House press office. They wanted a press pass, and they said, The stuff you're saying on the show isn't a good look for Right Side. They're not going to let us into the White House if you're with us.

But the pressure in this scenario came exclusively from the Daily Wire? Yes.

Yes, and here's how I know why. My show got maybe be 100 live viewers every night.

Not a powerhouse show.

No. The Media Matters was not onto me. They were put onto me by people in the right that wanted me canceled.

Yeah. Well, That's interesting. Then what do you do? You're failing in school. Your show just got canceled. What's your plan now?

I dropped out. College? Yeah. I hated college, and it was very expensive. Even I had a substantial scholarship, but it was still expensive, and I didn't like it. So my plan was that I was going to go to a different college. I might work for a year, make some money. And eventually, I got the show back about a month later. They came back. And by popular demand from my 100 viewers who were very dedicated, Right Side offered me the show back. And so I took the show again over the summer. And then I applied for a job at the Leadership Institute. That was the next big saga.

But you didn't get that job?

No, I did not get the job. Why? Well, I was told because I knew people that worked there, that were field representatives there. It was a field representative job. I went out for a job training at the end of July, 2017. So after that second semester, and I applied for this field rep job. It was this two-week training. I go there, and on the first day of the whole thing, they go around the room of all the prospective applicants. It's like a big tryout, basically, for two weeks. And they wanted to get everybody to break the ice and know each other. So we did introductions. They said, Say your name, how old you are, and why you're a conservative. And at this time, people are not where, let's say, we are right now. They're not America first. They're not... Anything like... They're not talking about great replacement. That's not on the radar for them. So you go around the room and you hear stuff about small government, free markets, personal responsibility, that thing. And they get to me and I said, Well, I'm a conservative because we're losing our civilization because of mass immigration. America doesn't resemble America anymore.

France is no longer France. I said, And if we don't conserve the demographics, forget about the rest. That's what we need to conserve. I said that. I was told later on that at that moment, I was immediately disqualified by the people that were running the job training.

On what grounds?

I said that was too far right. That was too extreme.

Worrying about who lives in your country is far right?

Apparently.

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At this point, I'm realizing that something is deeply wrong here in the conservative movement. Because we were led to believe in those days of the campus culture wars and gamer gate and all that is that we're the marketplace of ideas, and we're about free speech and the rest of it. Here I am being like, nuked from orbit by Ben Shapiro as a kid. And for asking what I thought were reasonable questions, because I didn't come from some strange background. I come from a normal home. My parents are Catholic. They're married. We came from a relatively affluent suburb. I went to Lynes Township. That's a very affluent high school. In other words, I didn't wake up as the son of William Luther pierce. I wasn't like a skinhead or something. I was like a normal guy that was like, Yeah, country's too diverse. We're too pro-Israel. This is reasonable. I was just getting sandbagged for it and blacklisted. What's more, nobody cared. Because I remember going on Twitter and saying, Why isn't anyone sticking up for me? Where's Dave Rubin, the free speech warrior? Where's he on this one? Where's Shapiro? Where's all these people? In some way, they were all complicit in this.

I realized that the conservative movement was completely bankrupt in that way. Yeah, we were absolutely right. And I became very radical.

Well, let me just say, I'm so familiar with... I was much older when it happened to me and much more insulated. I was on a college student. I was like, 45. I was in a much better place to withstand the pressure. But I do think, and I want to... This is my main question to you is, when you get attacked, people call you names. They always call me racist, and I would always think to myself, I'm actually not. I would tell you if I was racist. I'm a little sexist, but I'm not racist. I never understood why they did that. Then I thought, maybe the point is to make me racist. Racist, where you get to a point where you're like, well, if you're going to slander me, then I'll just become the thing you're calling me. I do think that's a feature of human nature, don't you? If you stare too intently at the accusers, at the whatever Ben Shapier or Mark Levens or Ted Cruz or whoever it is calling you names, it distorts you and you actually change and become what they say you are. Have you thought that ever? Do you worry that that happened to you?

No, I don't think it I never did because I know who I am. I had a very firm grounding of what I'm about, which is that I was deeply Catholic, and I still am, deeply patriotic and pro-American. I don't consider myself, temperamentally, to be an angry or a hateful person. So I never, in other words, lost my center. They say this thing about you look into the abyss and the abyss stares back into you. That never really happened to me. I was frustrated. I was frustrated because I felt like I was being denied a level playing field opportunity, and it wasn't fair. I felt like I was right. And these people that were basically hypocrites, grifters, not really conservative, they were controlling the conversation. And as a consequence, they were controlling the Republican movement. I really perceive this as an urgent crisis, because if we wanted Trump to deliver America first, to realize it, the Trump movement had to transform the conservative movement to reflect the victory that Trump won.

I won't keep torturing you with biographical questions, but I do want to... You get your show gets canceled, you drop out of college, you have no money, you decide you want to work at the Leadership Institute, which is like a conservative think tank or some organization of long-standing in Arlington, Virginia. Can't get the job there because You're worried about immigration. It's all pretty amazing. Then where does that leave you? How did you succeed?

Well, I continued doing my show. I did it independently.

What does that mean? How do you do it? How do you do a show independently? How did you do it?

I started a YouTube channel, and I was in my parents' basement, and I put up a green screen. I got my computer, webcam, and I just started going live every night in the same way that I did at RSPN. I just did it on my own channel where I had creative control over it. And at that point, I basically mounted an attack on the conservative establishment from the outside. I realized that there's two ways you could play this. You could infiltrate the conservative movement. I could recant all my views and apologize and pretend to be one of them and bypass the gatekeepers, the sensors. I said, or I could be in the wilderness and I would be alone, and I would be radioactive. But I could challenge the credibility and legitimacy of the conservative movement and its claim to represent Conservatives. That was the mission was to to say, no, the immoveable standard is America first. I'm going to represent it, and the conservative movement is going to have to move to me. I will not move towards them. I thought, maybe I'll make money, and maybe I won't, but I'm going to try it for a couple of years, and I'll see how it goes.

But the side picture in your head was, enemy is conservative movement. Yes. Do you think that was a good choice?

Yes, absolutely.

Rather than, but why not Antifa were, I don't know, Anti-Defamation League, or there are a lot of institutions on George Soros. Why would it be their conservative establishment? Why did you think that was important?

Well, I took a page from Trump's playbook, which is that you have to, in the country, the left was hegemonic over all the institutions. You have this organized opposition to the left and the Democrats and all the left wing-controlled institutions. The organized opposition comes from movement conservatism, the Republican Party, Fox News, the constellation of conservative institutions. I said, The problem is, whether you go Democrat or you go Republican, you're just like getting the same thing. You're getting the establishment effectively. The opposition is basically controlled or moderated. It's not authentic opposition. It's not a true alternative. I said, We, and by we, I mean the true America first nationalists, we need to fight for the mantle the opposition. And then leading the opposition, then we can take the fight to the left as the Conservatives, as the Republicans, whatever. But first you have to win that internal battle among the audience that the Conservatives have, because that's really the problem is that they have usurped. The base is extremely conservative, extremely anti-left. But the Republican Party, like those that represent them, are not at all. A lot of them are atheists, a lot of them are gay, a lot of them are feminists.

And so I said, we need to rally, like Trump did, rally the base against the establishment and then take the fight to the left as the true alternative. And if you can win that, then you win the country. That was Trump's model.

What did you see as the most important gatekeepers that needed to be overturned, pushed aside in order to do this?

It was the Zionist Jews, like Dave Rubin, like Ben Shapiro, like Dennis Prager. It was the guys that were really controlling the media apparatus that seemed to me to be the biggest impediment.

Fox. Fox is not a Jewish business, though.

Well, Rupert Murdoch is an ally of Netanyahu, so He's aligned, and he owns the whole news Corp empire. Yeah, he's certainly a part of it also.

I mean, Dave Rubin, though, does he matter?

No, not really. Right.

I mean, Dave Rubin. I don't know. Do Did people watch Dave Rubin?

They did back then. I mean, because you got to consider, they were like the ascendant new media. They represented the next big thing.

I mean, and Ben Shapiro seems irrelevant to me now.

Now, but back then, for the young, he was huge.

No, I guess that's true. So maybe you won.

Oh, certainly.

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Those seem like the most sincere... Those seem like the only hope of the country to get away from this destructive, really self-destructive cycle. Why attack them?

Well, in short, they attack me first.

Yeah, but who cares?

Well, let's take Joe Kemp.

I mean, you attack me constantly. I'm like, I don't really give a shit.

I want to meet the You attack me first, too.

No, but what I'm saying is I'm not whining about it. I'm just saying so. You know what I mean?

Well, I don't say so because take Joe Kemp, for instance. I supported Joe Kent, and I talked to Joe Kent. I got introduced to him by Matt Brainerd. Matt Brainerd went to my conference in 2021. He bought a table.

Was he his campaign manager?

He was. Okay. Or he was a consultant, but he was on the campaign. You were on the campaign. Yeah. I met Matt Brainerd. He He liked me a lot. He loved my conference in February '21, which he bought a table at for his organization, Look At America. And in 2021, and by we, I mean, my nonprofit and myself and my team, we wanted to support America First candidates in the midterms, like you said, authentic opponents of- Me, too. Yeah.

That's how I found Joe Kent.

Yes. I met a lot of the people in that scene, like Ryan Gordusky, I know, was very supportive of Joe Kent and other people that are more private I don't want to name, but they put me on, not just to Joe Kent, but Patrick Witt in Georgia, Gibbs in Michigan, a lot of different people. Joe Kent was one of them. I had a phone call with Joe Kent, and I told him I had my assistant on the phone, too, who's Jewish, by the way, just because I want you to know I'm cool like that. I don't judge. I'm on the phone with Joe, and I said, Look, we support you, and we want to do everything we can to help you. We We want to have my followers knock on doors for you. We want to boost your social media. Anything that you need, we want to help you, I said, and we don't even want to be publicly associated, I said, because we know that that might hurt you. I said, The only thing that we ask in return is you can't disavow me if the media asks, and you can say whatever you need to say, but you can't disavow.

And he said, Yeah, I totally agree with you because if we start disavowing each other, then we're just going to eat each other alive, and the left wins. We're in agreement. And a couple of months later, Joe tweeted in support of me because I had been banned on all social media. I was on the no-fly list. So he said something on Twitter like, nick Fuentes shouldn't be banned. He should not be censored. A month after that, I put out on Twitter. I said, Joe Kent is one of the most impressive America First candidates that's running in '22. Well, fast forward a whole year later. I do my annual conference, AFPAC, in February February '22. Marjorie Taylor-Green attends. We had 1,200 people, and it got a lot of media attention. I'm driving home because I'm on the no-fly list at this time. I'm driving home from Florida.

Can I ask you to pause? By no fly list, you mean not extra scrutiny, but not allowed to fly in airplanes in the United States?

Not allowed to fly, yes.

How old were you?

I was 23.

Did you have any felony convictions? No. Okay. I'm I wasn't even aware that that could happen. How long were you not allowed to fly in airplanes in the United States?

One year.

That's really crazy. Yeah, I was- Sorry, I just wanted to get that up there.

No, yeah, it's brutal.

You can affirm that you were not allowed to fly in airplanes, period.

Yes, I have the letter from the TSA. I was on the do not board list.

Sorry, sorry to interrupt you.

No, it's crazy. Anyway, I'm driving home from Florida after my conference, and I get people start texting me. Joe Ken is on Twitter, and he says, I condemn nick Fuentes, especially his views on Israel. That's the tweet. I texted Joe, and I said, Seriously? Really? And he text me back and he says, We win by addition, not subtraction. I go, Well, you just subtracted me out of the movement. I said, Because I don't support you anymore. He goes back for seconds. He goes on Twitter and says, nick Fuentes and his focus on race and religion does not fit with my message of inclusive populism. Inclusive populism. That doesn't sound like authentic America first. That sounds like bullshit to me. I know he's your friend, but I don't know him that well. I'm not on the team.

Well, my read on Joe Kent was, he's totally sincere. He, like me, has always been committed to separating out foreign policy views from ethnicity, not because... Obviously, I'm denounced as an anti-Semite every day. I don't really care what ADL thinks of me, but my Christian faith tells me that there's no such thing as blood guilt, and virtue or sin is not inherited. It's not a feature of DNA. So every person must be assessed individually as God assesses each person individually. And that's like a foundational view. I always thought it's great to criticize and question our relationship with Israel because it's insane and it hurts us. We get nothing out of it. I completely agree with you there. But the second you're like, well, actually, it's the Jews. First of all, it's against my Christian faith. I just don't believe that and I never will, period. Second, then it becomes a way to discredit. That's when I was like, this guy's a fed. I was totally convinced you were a fed because I was like, here he's bear-hugging the one sincere guy who lost his wife in Syria thanks to these fucking crazy wars, Neocon wars.

And he's discredit. He's doing the David Duke. David Duke would always, every time I rolled out a new show, he would issue an endorsement of the show. I've never met the guy. What's that? Well, it's the feds, obviously. He's trying to destroy me by association. Whatever. You see the point?

Yeah, but so let me ask you this. So if I'm supporting Joe Kent, I'm David Duke bear-hugging. If I attack Joe I'm attacking the only sincere America first voices.

Look, I get it. I mean, I do get it, and I just want to say I love Joe Kent. Having been denounced by a lot of people I like, I know what that feels like. I definitely am sympathetic to that. It was denounced by someone last night. I hurt my feelings. You know what I mean? I'm not going to say what her name is, but I helped her. I liked her. It's like, why are you denouncing me? Why don't you call me? Yeah. Right? Yeah. I get that. I guess the two problem... But then on the other hand, one of my favorite people in the world is Glenn Greenwalt.

Yeah, I love Glenn.

What a good man. Glenn must have spent 10 years attacking me full-time. Tucker Carlson is da da da da da da. And he Some of his criticism was correct, actually. A tool of the neocons, endorsing these fucking wars. He was right, but he really hated me. And then when we started to agree on stuff, I was like, You know what? It's not about me. I don't care. I don't want personal peak or my hurt feelings to govern my behavior. I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm not lecturing you. I get it, but I feel like, Okay, he pissed you off. It's in a campaign. He's got 19 consultants. This kid's a Nazi. Be careful of him. I don't know. Let it go.

Well, and I totally agree with you, by the way. That's why I don't take it personally at all. I like you. I've said very positive things about you on my show as well. I don't care. I know, but I mean to say that my goal is America first. It's not about me. It's not about my personality. It's about winning for America. By winning, we want to see our vision realized. But with Joe, for me, it was very specific that He said, Inclusive populism. I really didn't like that because to me, there were a lot of similar phrases at this time, multiracial, working class populism, this stuff. I said, On some level, we do need to be exclusive, not inclusive. We do need to be right wing. We do need to be Christian. We do, on some level, need to be pro-white, not to the exclusion of everybody else, but recognizing that white people have a special heritage here as Americans. The reason I opposed him in '22 was not because I was mad, but it was to say, America first cannot backslide into this inclusive populism message, which I perceived to be more like GOP slop.

I'll tell you, when he ran again in '24, I did not oppose him. I did not oppose him, and I would have supported him if he had reached out or something like that, because for me, it was very political and professional I wanted to impose a cost. If you disavow someone because they criticize Israel, if you disavow someone for talking about white people in Christianity, I said, We can't let that slide. You understand why he did it. I On some level, I don't hold it against him in the sense that there is such a strong incentive. It's easy to say, I disavow all these crazy Christians and all these crazy white nationalists because it buys you wiggle room with people that are attacking you. It's easy to throw them under the bus and say, I'm one of the good guys. I said, It's too easy. We need to push in the other direction and say, You should feel less comfortable saying that people shouldn't talk about their race and religion. Maybe you think twice next time. I did it for a very specific reason.

I get that. What I do think is bad, just objectively bad and destructive, is the all Jews are guilty or all anybody is guilty of anything because that's just not true. We don't believe that as Christians. My hero in life is Paul because you call him Saint Paul, Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee, and meets Jesus and becomes It becomes this just incredible man, incredibly brave, smart, loving, everything you want to be as a man, he was. Jew.

Yeah.

God did that to him. It's like, I can't... I think that's an... I don't think it's like mushy liberal bullshit, which I hate. I hate all the language that you're describing. I get why it offends you because it's code for, I don't really believe what I'm saying. I have a PhD in the subject, so I know. But I also think there is a true, not just principle, but spiritual reality that we have to defend, which is God created every person as an individual, not as a group. No woman gave birth to a community. We hate that thinking, right? Collectivist thinking like that. That's identity politics. That's what Dave Rubin engages in. That's why Dave is just a child. You don't pay any attention to Dave because he's shallow. But we're not going to be that, right or no?

No, I completely agree with you. Not to be that guy and say that thing, but my best friend is a Jewish person. No, I know. But I guess here's my substantive disagreement, because as a Catholic, I could not agree more with you in what you're saying. I love all people, even the ones that don't like us. We have to love them all, and we have to recognize that- We're required to. Yes. Especially, Aquinas says, The Jews are a witnessed people, and so they actually have special protections under the law, according to Catholic philosophy. But I guess my substantive disagreement, which I've said on the show also, is the idea that neoconservatism and Israel has nothing to do with Jewishness, Jewish identity, the Jewish religion, because clearly, the state of Israel and the neocons are deeply motivated by that ethnic identity, and their allegiance to Israel proceeds from that. The the plan of greater Israel, the blood and soil nationalism of Israel. It stems from this ethno-religin, which is Judaism.

Well, this is just BLM, the new version. This is identity politics. They're engaging in identity politics. I mean, that's just so obvious to me. But the problem in your response, I mean, I get what you're saying, but the problem in your response is it does not apply to every individual.

No, and I would never say that.

Okay. Well, I just think it's important to say that, not to dodge the accusations against you. My best friends are Jewish. Okay, I agree. Embarrassing, even though it's probably true. It's true in my case, actually. But whatever. But because just that principle that we're all judged as individuals by what we do, our faith, the decisions that we make, the way we live our lives, and God will judge every one of us in that way, and that's how we're supposed to judge.

I think that's true. Yeah, and I totally agree. But I guess the disagreement is, you say identity politics like it's a bad thing. I think identity is a reality.

Identity is a reality. Absolutely. You just can't have a country of 350 million, this diverse, where it's just like warring ethnicities because then it's Rwanda soon. The people with the most force just kill the others. You can't have that here, right?

Yeah. But I I would say specifically as it pertains to, you, I think, have said it's the neocons, it's the neocons. I think that neoconservatism, where does it arise from? It arises from Jewish leftists who were mugged by reality when they saw the surprise attack in the Yam Kippur War.

Yeah, well, that's a lot of it for sure. But then how do you explain Huckabee, Ted Cruz, and there are a lot like that, John I mean, I've known them all. George W. Bush, Karl Rove. I mean, all people I know personally who I've seen be seized by this brain virus, and they're not Jewish. Most of them are self-described Christians. And then the Christian Zionists who are, well, Christian Zionists. Like, what is that? I can just say for myself, I dislike them more than anybody because what? Because it's Christian heresy, and I'm offended by that as a Christian. That's why. Why not? I'm pissed at the neocons. Very pissed. I've said that a million times. I've been mad since December of 2003 when I went to Iraq. I went and hasdled, or hasdled, asked straightforward questions to Ted Cruz because that seemed like there's a sitting senator who's serving for Israel by his own description. He seemed like a worthy target. I'm not going after MTG, who's the most see her. Why not go after Ted Cruz? I don't understand.

Well, again, with Marjorie, I was a friend of hers, and she spoke in my conference. Then the day after, she pretended like she didn't know me. And that was in 2022.

But it's a continuum. You said yourself, you showed up in college. One set of views, they evolve as you interact with reality, as the reality itself changes, as you learn things, you grow, whatever people change.

Well, and look, now that everyone agrees with me, I will graciously forgive them for being so hostile.

But why make it personal? Who cares?

It's not personal for me. Like with Marjorie, if she wanted to be aligned or whatever, I would totally be on board with her.

But where do you disagree with her?

I don't know because I don't know what her new views are. She's really only come around on Israel this year. I've been talking about this issue for 10 years. Right. Okay.

All right. You win.

But like- No, but it's not like that. It's a little It feels like BS to me that, and I've said this on Twitter the other day, it's like, I got treated like I didn't exist. Right. I got it. And canceled for 10 years for saying these things. And that's really where all this drama comes from. A time when there was this intense censorship and nobody was on board with this stuff. Again, Marjorie, she fired... One of my people was working in her office. She fired that guy because someone found out that a groiper was working in her office. And That guy got his life ruined. She pretended like she didn't know me and lied and said, I had no idea the conference I was speaking at. She knew exactly what it was. That's fine. But now that she's on the same page, there's this expectation like, Okay, well, why did you have a problem with her in the past? It's because she was on the other team in the past.

Yeah. Well, so was everybody. So were you. So what? Why not? It's got to be bigger than just us, right? I don't think, I'll speak for myself, I don't feel like I'm at war with the Neocons or Israel. It's much bigger than that. It's like you want to restore America to a place where your grandchildren would enjoy growing up. That's it.

Yeah. As far as Marjorie- It's not who cares.

You know what I mean? Like, okay, lots of people hurt my... If Dave Rubin called me tonight, which he would never do, though he has my cell, and said, I'm really sorry I called you Hitler. I didn't mean it. You're or raising lots of legitimate questions, which I think I agree with or I'm thinking about in a deeper way. I'd be like, great. I don't care.

Look, Tucker, that's why I'm sitting here. Because we had a contentious dialog for a long time. Well, I thought you were a fed. I thought you were a fed.

I was a fed? I'm not a fed. But whatever.

I don't care what people think. We showed each other a badge as we know we're.

No, but I thought you were a fed because I was like, why not? It's not cucking to say you're not talking about all Jews when you oppose a foreign policy position. It's not. There's nothing liberal about that. It's just true. That's the Christian position. Two, why are you attacking the best people and not the worst people?

Well, yeah. I mean, again, he disavowed me for my views on Israel and said, I talk too much about white people and Christianity. To me, that's like a sincere ideological disagreement. I get it. And same thing with Marjorie. Marjorie fired my guy. She disavowed about me. And you worked with Blumenthal on that article, but you called me on the phone, and we talked.

We settled it. Yeah. I was like, from my perspective, this is all so stupid inside baseball and whatever, but for the record, I was like, first of all, who is this kid? I'm working in Fox News. I'm aware there's an internet, but I'm more out of it than you may appreciate. And I'm like, out of nowhere, attacking this one. I had Joe Kent to my house. I did this interview with him, and I'm always in search of a sincere politician. I don't have to agree on everything, but I really believe sincerity is the whole game. If someone's heart is pure, he will be brave. I always have thought that, and it's turned out to be true. Marjorie is a perfect example. That's all that matters. If you're afraid inside, if you're weak inside, you will crumble when it matters. I really felt like, wow, Joe, don't agree with him on everything, of course. But I was like, this guy is really sincere. He's a good person. Then you show up and you're like, he's a CIA officer, and I'm going to... I mean, he was a CIA contractor, but really crushed the guy. It's like, why?

Of all people, you agree on 90% of stuff. That was my view. I was like, well, clearly, this kid's a I did.

Right. But you didn't know the whole story. I didn't. You're absolutely right. And look, and now that... I'm not trying to be combative. I think that- Go ahead.

You're my feelings.

No, I mean, here's what I'm trying to say is, now that Marjorie is in the right direction. I absolutely support everything she's saying. I've not been critical of her at all this year because I think that what she's doing is extremely courageous. I think you're right. She is sincere.

So it sounds like your, not to put words in your mouth, but just your life experience has left you so stung by the Republican establishment. You don't trust anybody. It sounds like.

Well, no. I mean, these people attacked me when the rules were different, and now they got better, and now I'm good with them. I mean, I'm willing to be good with them, but I think that I don't know if Marjorie still has a problem with me or not. I don't know.

I do know, though, and this is the last criticism I will level, and it's maybe not even your fault, but I do know that the coordinated attacks against totally reasonable questions about what's in America's interest and what's not, those are all coordinated by the Israeli government. It's all come to light now. They're against me. I've always thought I have the world's most moderate position on Israel. Don't hate Israel. Just don't want to get involved in their wars. Don't want to pay for this. Don't want to pay for abortion on demand in a foreign country. Sorry. When we're cutting food stamps on our own, that's outrageous. It's not America first. That's my view. Not embarrassed of it at all. They are totally determined to take me out, I think because I'm reasonable. Who would disagree with that? And call me all these names, the most dangerous anti-Semite. I'm not even an anti-Semite. And they're not doing that to you because, this is my view, and that's not necessarily your fault, but because they're like, Fuentes discredits the reasonable people because he's always banging on about the Jews, the Jews. And so he makes everyone else look like a Nazi.

And so it's like, he's playing a pretty valuable role in the same way that Israel has always funded extremism throughout the Middle East, including Hamas, because it discredits the reasonable people. That's a fact.

Yeah. Well, I would just say I disagree. I mean, because you said the other day, they like me. I don't know what you're talking about when you say that because- Well, I don't know. Let me just rebut that.

The ADL- But by the way, I'm not saying you have anything to do with this. I'm just saying I've noticed the phenomenon.

Totally. I just reject that because they have been messing with me for my entire adult life. The ADL. The ADL got me banned on YouTube. The SPLC posted my house on their website.

What do you mean posted your house?

They posted a photo of my house on their website.

How can they do that?

I guess that's a free speech thing.

The SPLC posted a picture of your house on their website? Yes. When?

In 2022.

Actually?

Yes. They wrote an article. They said, nick Fuentes bought a building in this city. They said, We interviewed his neighbors and property records reveal this and that. And on the front page, the picture for the article is my house where I live.

That's crazy. And then someone showed up with a gun and tried to kill you at that house? Yes.

So that's why you say, Well, they're not doing this to you. It's like the ZOA, the SPLC, the ADL, the Daily Wire, all these groups have been on me for years. So that's news to me if they're really endorsing my activities.

It could just be my perception. But I guess what I'm saying is, as someone who thinks his own views are completely reasonable, past every smell test, you could X-ray my soul. I don't think there's a lot of hate in there. And to the extent that they do make me feel hateful, the people who attack me, I do say prayers about it. We're not allowed to hate people as we forgive those who trespass against us. That's our core prayer. I just feel like it's the... I don't know. Am I being paranoid? I feel like going on about the Jews helps the Néocons.

That's what I'm saying. What about my views do you think are unreasonable, if yours are reasonable?

I think, again, I just I don't think it's cucky. I think it's reality to say that guilt is not inherited. Blood guilt is bad. One of the reasons that I'm mad about Gaza is because the Israeli position is Everyone who lives in Gaza is a terrorist because of how they were born, including the women and the children. That's not a Western view. That's an Eastern view. That's a non-Christian that's totally incompatible with Christianity and Western civilization. They say, or the defenders of Western civilization. Not with that attitude. You're not collective punishment. He's the enemy of Western civilization. I hate that attitude. It's genocidal. The current claims that I'm a cancer from Ben Shapiro, whatever. We need to be excised from the body of conservatism is a genocidal position that basically encourages violence, as they well know. The whole thing I hate. So anytime you say a whole group of people is responsible for the sins of some of its members, I'm out.

Yeah, But that's not my view. It's not.

Okay. Tell me your views. Rather than you're one of those people, one of the reasons I wanted to meet you is you're one of those people who is defined by clips. Yes. I'm one of those people also. Yes. I get it. I'm going to just shut up and you tell me what you actually believe. Yeah.

Well, and listen, I appreciate you saying that because that's just the reality of the media environment we're in. I don't expect you to know all my views. But as far as the Jews are concerned, I think that, like I said, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all those things that you talk about from Jewishness, ethnicity, religion, identity. Let me give you a perfect example. You say on your show that we need to treat Israel like any other country. I understand that in principle because Israel is another foreign country. But Israel is unlike every other country in the sense that because the Jewish people are in a diaspora all over the world, there are significant numbers of Jews in Europe, but also in the United States. Because of their unique heritage and story, which is that they're a stateless people, they're unassimilable, they resist assimilation for thousands of years, and I think that's a good thing. Now they have this territory in Israel. There's a deep religious affection the state. It's bound up in their identity, the story of the exodus from Egypt, the promise of the land, all these things. Let's say in the United States, for example, somebody like a Sheldon Adelson, he's not Israeli.

Is he an ideological neocon? Does he believe in the promise of democratic globalism. I don't think necessarily. His heart is in Israel, and it's because he is a proud Jewish person. I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a Jewish person in America, you're Again, it's not because they're born, but it's a rational self-interest politically to say, I'm a minority, I'm a religious ethnic minority. This is not really my home. My ancestral home is in Israel. There's a natural affinity that Jews have for Israel, and I would say on top of that, for the international Jewish community. They're extremely organized, and many of them are critical of Israel or Israel's current government or the project of Israel. But I guess what they have in common, unlike, let's say, Singapore, for example, is that they have this international community across borders, extremely organized, that is putting the interests of themselves before the interests of their home country. There's no other country that has a similar arrangement like that. No other country has a strong identity like that. This religious blood and soil conviction, this history of being in the diaspora stateless, wandering, persecuted, and in particular, the historic animosity between the Jewish people and the Europeans.

They hate the Romans because the Romans destroyed the temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes to the Arch of Titus and gives it the finger and takes a picture. We don't think like that as Americans and white people. We don't think about the Roman Empire in 2000 years ago. They do. I guess that's really... I I don't think that's me saying the Jews, the Jews, the Jews. I don't think that's me being hateful. I don't think that's me being collectivist. I think that's understanding that identity politics, whether you love it or hate it, whatever you feel about it, it's a reality that we live in a world of Jews and Christians, of Whites and Blacks. These identities mean something to us, and they mean things to each other, and we can't wish them away. It feels like White people and Christians are the only ones to do that.

There's no question about that, your last point, for sure. One of the reasons they do that is because they've been taught to hate themselves, of course, since the Second World War. Another reason is, however, the reality of a multi-ethnic country requires you to set aside community or group interests in favor of corporate interests, universal interests, national interests. And you have to do that or else it doesn't work. I agree those attitudes I mean, certainly in other parts of the world, people think this way, but you can't have that here. And so it's just important to remind everybody that, yeah, things may be generally true, but again, they're not always true. And there are people who just strongly disagree. And by the way, in this specific case of Israel, there are a ton of Orthodox who I know who are opposed to the state of Israel. They're more Jewish than Dave Rubin, a lot more, and yet they oppose it. Jeff Sacks is the most wonderful man, the most Jewish, most articulate critic of the state of Israel that I'm aware of. I don't know, that's just meaningful. If everything is inherited, Then there's no hope for the continuation of America.

Do you see that?

Yeah, and I don't think it's genetically inherited. What you're saying about putting aside the tribal interest for the corporate interest, that's absolutely the case. That's the only way the country is going to stay together. Exactly.

That's my concern.

I absolutely agree with you. I would say, though, that the main challenge to that, a big challenge to that, is organized jury in America. I don't think Bill Ackman is capable of that. I don't think Shal Nadelson is capable of that. I don't think Yoram Hzoni is capable of that, for that matter, and many other on the right and the left. I see it. I see Jewishness as the common denominator. You're right. It's not all Jewish people feel the same way. No one would say that, but that does seem to be the common denominator, and I just feel like it needs to be called out explicitly. I like what you said the other day. If you're serving in another country's military or have dual citizenship, you really can't be a part of this project.

Well, that's an easy one, but I am much more comfortable as a Christian and an American keeping it on that level because it's easy to just set universal rules that apply to everyone, not just the Jews or the Christians or the anybody, just like Americans, can only serve in the US military or they lose their passport. I mean, I don't know. That's not hard. I don't know. Why not just say that?

Say what?

That. Why not make every statement about how Americans ought to behave applicable to all Americans? It's the defense of universal values that will hold the country together and the emphasis on parochial group values that will break it apart inevitably.

Because this is a particular issue, and it's acute. Like I said, I think they are unique in that way. I think that's a unique issue, especially in the Republican Party, especially in the conservative scene.

How would you like this all to be resolved?

What I would like is for the US government to not be influenced by these kinds of foreign allegenses, not with money that comes from American citizens like Sheldon Adelson, not from foreign lobbyists. In terms of tangible things, I don't think we disagree on any of it, like registering APAC and FARA, banning dual citizenship. I'm basically in agreement.

I think 80% of the public agrees with those things. That's what gets me a little bit annoyed. It's like, these are like America First, the concept. It's the most popular, self-evidently true idea you could have. Don't let foreign powers, especially tiny ones far away control your country. Of course not. Everyone agrees with that on both sides. So the trick is not to let that idea get subverted.

Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think we agree on that.

But it's subverted when they're like, That's hate. No, that's hate. It's not hate.

Yeah. Well, and here's what I will say. I think that there is increasingly a contingent because what you're talking about exists. When you say that there are people that legitimately detract from this, there is legitimate racial hatred out there. Big time. And it's growing. I know. People on our side are afraid to talk about it because they know, like you said, they're going to get called a cuck or a Squish or whatever. I agree with you. The people that are detracting from that need to be called out. I think there should be no harbor for cruelty, hatred, prejudice, those kinds of things.

I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut. I really try not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing. But after January January sixth, then just finding out the number of FBI personnel in the crowd it's like, and I've just seen this, David Duke is a great example. Some of these are the Charlottesville rally. I had a bunch of feds there being like, We're white supremacists. We hate the Blacks. You've seen the N-word, whatever. It's like, that's not real. There is some of that going on, don't you think?

I think that there's a lot of sincere people.

For sure. I completely agree.

They're just numb skulls, and some of them They see the opening that there's a legitimate critique of this, and they see an opening to air out their grievances. They get a license to... They think it's okay now. I do think it's important to differentiate and say that fundamentally, I guess the word that I would use, I've been thinking about this a lot lately is reassurance, because I think there's a legitimate... There is a legitimate need to reassure people. And this is what I've been doing on these podcasts that we don't want to harm anybody. We don't want to kill anybody. We don't want to harm anybody. We just want to put America first. I guess, to the extent that I've been taken out of context over the years or things like that, I'm trying to set the record straight and say, and I appreciate you've given me this opportunity, these are my real views. I'm not one of those haters, let's say. Yeah.

Well, I think people should be allowed to describe what they think. I mean, that's a basic human autonomy question. If I were to know what you think, I should just ask you and let you talk. Right? Yeah. So who's going to be President? Who should be President next?

Who should be President? Well, yay, of course. Kanye.

You had dinner with Trump.

I did.

And Kanye. Yes. What did you think of that?

It was surreal because those are my two heroes. Those are my two number one heroes of all time. I've always been a Kanye West fan.

You like the music first? Yes.

The music, the fashion, everything. Really? Yes.

Do you wear those weird one-piece shoes?

I do. You actually do? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Like in public?

Yes. You don't think that's cool?

No, I do. I don't know what I think. I'll get you. I've worn the same clothes since high school. Don't ask me about clothes. I'm not good at that at all. That's hilarious. But you've always been a fan. Oh, yeah. A huge fan. Then you've described your love for Trump, since your childhood love for Trump. What was it like to find yourself a dinner with them.

It was funny because it was literally Thanksgiving dinner. It was three days before Thanksgiving. So not only was it dinner, but I'm having Thanksgiving dinner with Ye and Trump at the same table. And these are like my heroes. The way that it went was interesting. Ye is shy. He deeply admires Trump. He loves Trump. I like that about him because Ye really admires anybody that's an industrialist. He loves Bill builders, visionaries, architects. He's very into that. So he has a deep regard for Trump. And so at the beginning, it was a little awkward because he wouldn't talk, and he was shy.

Yey.

Yes, which is surprising, right? Because he's so outspoken. But Trump was trying to get him to talk, and it was a boomer moment because Trump was trying to get him to talk about opportunity zones. He was giving him the Black voter pitch, the Black Republican pitch. Really? Yeah. I was like, Dude, he's not that Republican, to say the least.

Fair.

At this point, I think people know that.

So what were you saying?

Well, so eventually, Trump didn't have a lot of luck with him, so he's fielding the table, and he's talking to me.

Trump does like other people to talk.

Yes. Well, he likes to talk, too. For sure. But he asks questions. Yeah, he does.

More than you would think.

Well, he's a great... He's a good guy, fundamentally. He's very warm guy. So he was asking everybody, what's up and who are you? And we got to talking. I guess it was going too well because I was being very complementary of Trump. And Ye was kicking me and saying, a couple of days prior, we were talking about if Trump and Ye wind up on the debate stage, what is that going to look like? And I was coaching Ye like, these are his weak areas. This is where we got to attack Trump. And so Ye was like, tell him what you were saying the other day, Tell him what you were saying the other day. Tell him what you were saying last night. And I was like, Dude, that's our playbook. We don't want to blow up our... And Trump was like, Go ahead. Don't be bashful. Tell me, what is it? And I said, You know what? I said, I think you're one of the greatest living Americans. I said, I'm a young guy. I said, I really have nothing to say other than thank you. I have nothing but gratitude for what you've done for the country.

I said, It's really not my place to give you advice or correct you. And he said, No, no, don't be bashful. Tell me. And the story that I brought up was this was really what sent me in the first Fox News debate in 2015 in the Republican primary. Yes. Red Bear, the first question said, raise your hand if you will not pledge to support the eventual nominee. Yes. And Trump raised his hand because that's what he was saying. He said, if I don't win, I'll run independent and I'll make Republicans lose. And so I brought that up and I told that story and I said, I feel like What was inspiring in '16 is that you were willing to let the Republican establishment lose. You were serious about blowing them up such that you are not going to say like Pat Buchana, who I respect, but Sam Francis acknowledged that was one of his great mistakes, was ultimately endorsing Bush. I said, It showed you were serious. You were playing to win because you said, I will let this Republican Party crash and burn. I want to run as the Republican, but if I I'll run independent.

I said, And that's how I knew you were serious, and that's how I knew you were the guy. I said, And I feel like lately, this is right after Ron McDaniel became the head of the RNC again. I was like, I feel like lately, you're just behind all these people. I said, We're not here for Kevin McCarthy. We're not here for Ronan McDaniel or Mitch McDonald. I said, We are here for you. We will die for you. We are loyal to you. I said, And when you did that, that showed you could win, and we rallied. I said, So I want to see more like that. I want to see you hit DeSantis, let's say, who was running against him. And he was like, Oh, okay. He goes, Oh, so you like that? It was right after he called them DeSanctimonius. I said, That was awesome. You should have kept hitting him. He's like, Oh, you like that? He goes, This guy's hard core. I like this guy. He was saying about me. I was trying to just get his mojo back and gas him up a little bit. That's how it went between me and him.

What was Ye saying at this point?

Well, he He was beaming with pride because Trump turns to him and says, Who is this guy? This guy's great. And he was like, right? And I was like, This is just this is amazing.

Do you call your parents from the parking lot?

Oh, yeah. You'll never believe.

I try never to think, how will this be perceived? It's better just to be as honest as you can be all the time. Honest people will respond, agree or disagree, but they'll feel your sincerity and your honesty. But there are always people who are going to it. I recounted basically the Christian gospel at Charlie Kirk's Memorial Service, and everyone's like, You're an anti-Semite. I literally didn't have one thought about Jewish people. I had nothing to do with that. It was whatever. But I was thinking about this conversation, which I'm sure I can't imagine in the ways that it will be distorted. But I do hope that people who want to learn what's happening and who you are will watch the whole thing. It's probably naive hope that it won't be reduced to whatever you're saying something naughty and me laughing and see they're both Nazis. I mean, you know that's going to happen, of course. But I'm willing to take that risk because I just think it's important to know you're clearly ascendant, you're enormously talented, you're more talented than I am, for sure, as a talker. There have been a lot of attempts to silence you and it hasn't worked.

So my calculation, I'll just be as blunt as I can be. It's like, I don't want to have Fuentes on. Everyone's going to be like, You, but you're a Nazi just like Fuentes. Okay. But then I'm I don't think Fuentes is going away. Ben Shapiro tried to strangle him in the crib in college, and now he's bigger than ever. It probably would just be worth hearing what nick Fuentes thinks. I just want to be transparent about my Are you seeing the motives here. Yeah. Those are my motives. Let me ask you, I referred earlier to the assassination attempt against you, and it's very fashionable among the permanent victim class. Every BLM leader was, Oh, People are trying to kill me, or Seth, whatever from the Babylon Bee. People are trying to kill me. And people use threats against them, which are daily for a lot of us, as a way to make themselves unassailable or immune from criticism or to attack their enemies. Your words inspired violence. What is stochastic terror? I can't even pronounce it. It's like some academic term, whatever. But you had a real assassination attempt, like an actual one, which got no publicity that I recall.

What happened?

Yeah, well, it was after the election last year. I put out this tweet and I said, your body, my choice on election night. Look, I'm not going to apologize for it, but I thought it was a week. It's a lame joke. It's the most obvious term phrase. Yeah, it's a college joke. That's funny. I had other good jokes that night, but that was the one that caught on because I just think it captured the imagination of liberals who were like, It's over for us, which it is, but in some ways. But so I put that out there. I didn't even vote for Trump, but I put that tweet out. Who did you vote for? I didn't vote at all. I just recused myself. But that's just what makes it ironic because I became in some ways emblematic of the election, even though I didn't participate. So it got 100 million impressions on Twitter. People were saying on the news that kids were saying it in school. It was on the news that in middle schools and high schools, the boys were saying that to the girls, your body, my choice. So it became this thing where it's like, he's creating this toxic environment for women.

So the Internet lost its mind, and people then started posting my address online because they were so unhappy with the tweet. And so on TikTok and on Twitter, a screenshot of my address, my phone number, all my personal information, it went viral. And when I say viral, I mean there were multiple tweets that got 20 million views with my whole readout, all my information.

Like your actual address, where you spend the night.

Yes. Where I live, where I do my show, all of it.

Damn. Did you know that?

Yeah. I started to see it. It's the election Tuesday, obviously. It was like Thursday that my address starts blowing up. I was going to do a show Friday, and someone shows up to my house, some weird-looking guy shows up to my house and just walks through the yard, walks through the gangway into the backyard, and is just circling my house and then goes away. We call the cops, me and my producer, and we said, Maybe we shouldn't do a show tonight. That weekend, we hired private security just for the weekend. 200 people- You didn't have security? No, I don't have security. Well, I didn't then.

Of any kind?

I didn't have cameras or anything, even. I had nothing. I was raw dogging it, which was not smart, maybe, but never had a problem like that.

I've always lived that way, too.

Yeah. But so that weekend, we hired a security guard just to park his car outside the house and monitor things. Literally 200 people came. To your house? Yes. Not all at once, but one after the other, driving by, yelling, walking by, throwing eggs, multiple people threw my house, ordering pizzas, ordering DoorDash, whatever, walking through the gangway. It was like a war zone. This security guard was yelling at people all night, and it went on all weekend. And then it went on throughout the next week and the next weekend. And it was bad. I got out of my house. I went to a hotel for a week while this was happening, waited for it to blow over.

Did you do your show from the hotel?

No, I took a week off.

Wow. Did you announce any of this in public?

No, I had to keep it very Why? I didn't want to track more of it. Because if you say, Oh, they're here, then people go, Oh, no. We got to keep up the pressure or turn it up. And people at that time were talking about burning my house down. On TikTok, there were viral videos of people saying, We're going to burn his house down. Then they doxed my parents' address. People were showing up to my parents' house. It got really bad. Eventually, it just blew over. About a month passed. At that time, so it was mid-December, mid-late December. It's actually funny. It was December 18th. I remember because that's an important date to me. What? It's Joseph Stalin's birthday. I'm a fan.

You're a fan of Stalin's? Mm-hmm.

I was an admirer. But we don't need to go into that.

Okay, let's get back. We'll circle back to that.

It was weird because the reason I mentioned that, it was almost like... Because I woke up that day and I was like, Oh, it's December 18th. And I was just very acutely aware of like, Today's a strange day. This is the day that the attempt happened. And so nothing had been happening for weeks at this point. So the elections, like what, November third, month and a half has passed. Nobody's coming to my house anymore, rarely. And I'm doing my show like normal, and I'm reaching the end of the show, and I see out of the corner of my eye, I get an alert from my ring doorbell camera that somebody's at the front door. And so I'm reading I'm going through my super chats. I'm going through live chat messages. You're on the air. Yeah, I'm live. I'm working through the messages, and I'm keeping an eye on it, and I see that this guy has a loaded gun, the guy's standing.

Start to laugh. Yeah. Well- You're live, and you see that there's a guy with a gun outside your door. Yes.

He's got a motorcycle helmet and a backpack. He's got a gun drawn, and he's knocking on the door, yelling. The thing is, I didn't want to tip him off that I knew he was there because I thought, I don't want him to get the drop on me or something. I just didn't want to give him any information about... Because I don't know if he's listening to my show, if I start freaking out or cancel the show, I don't know. Maybe he knows more about my movements inside. I keep the show going for a minute, and I wrap it up very quickly. I finish the show. My producer comes running in, and I say, Who is that? What's going on? And he goes, Oh, I called the cops. They're here. The guy's gone. I said, Okay, good. I start getting changed out of my suit, and I hear gunshots go off outside.

Damn. Yeah.

I literally jumped to the ground because I'm like, I don't know what's happening here. I step outside for a minute after the dust settles, and there's 10 cop cars all up and down the street, and they have the whole block locked down. Police tape everywhere. There's like a dozen cops. Like I said, the whole block is shut down. The alley is shut down, and they go, Get back inside. We have no idea what's going on. We have no idea what happened. They wouldn't let me or my producer leave until the morning. That's how late they were there. Finally, at the end of the night, after all the cops left, I came out in the very early morning.

Did no one come and explain any of this to you?

No, nobody said anything. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Finally, I go out in the morning and I ask the guy, Okay, what happened? He told me the story. It's what turns out that it's this young guy, he's 23 years old, white, nerd, short guy. He was at U of I, University of Illinois, in Urbana, Champagne, about two hours south of where I live. He killed three people earlier in the day. He went to his roommate's house, college roommate's house, killed his roommate, killed the sister, the guy's mother, got in his car, and drove directly to my house, parked outside my house, got out a 22 pistol, in an automatic crossbow. Weird choice. He knocked on the door, which is where I saw him. He went around the house. He tried the back door, tried the front door, and the cops pulled up. He took off running through the gangway, hopped the fence, ran into the neighbor's house. I guess he went into the neighbor's basement because the door was unlocked. He was hiding from the police. He shot two of their dogs, which is devastating. He runs back outside, and the cops see him. He shoots at the cops.

The cops shot him in the face, and he dies on the spot.

What was his motive?

They never told me. To this day, I have no idea.

There's no- They never told you?

No.

What contact did you have with the police after this?

They came by about a week later. Illinois State Police came to retrieve the ring camera footage of the whole incident. Incident. And so they had me download that onto a thumb drive. And that said, I never heard from the cops, never heard from the government. At all? No, nothing.

A guy comes to murder you. He's murdered three other people and two dogs. He gets shot to death, and no one bothers to tell you anything?

No, nothing.

Is it really a country at this point? No.

It's ridiculous.

So what was his motive? Do you have any idea?

I have no idea. So the story that I read online, because Obviously, the news followed up on this, and they said that... So he was like 5'5. I guess he was involved with drugs, actually, with his roommate. They sold drugs together, something like that. They had a falling out over the drug money or something like that. The roommate beat the shit out of him. So bad, he dropped out of school. He had this major falling out with the roommate, but they were close, had a big falling out. The shooter took him to small claims court over some money. I guess this guy was just in a downward spiral. He lost his job. He got in a hit and run crash and ran from the police. Then he was swearing at the cops when they showed up to arrest him. I guess his life just kept getting worse and worse and worse. Worse and worse, I assume he took it out on the roommate and popped off. I get it. Killed the whole family.

It's horrifying, but how do you fit into that?

This is just my opinion, speculation. This is like a month after Luigi Mangione, and the shooter at my house had on a motorcycle helmet and a costume. I think he was maybe a copycat of Luigi Mangione. He thought he was going to be a hero and assassinate some reviled political figure who was going viral at that time, being hated for that tweet. I think that might have been the motive, but that's pure speculation. I have no idea.

I mean, it's a well-documented fact that all kinds of bad actors use unstable people for political assassinations. It's happened. We know it's happened. Do you think this might be an example of that?

I don't think so, but it's certainly possible. The reason I say I don't think so.

It's funny. I think of you as conspiracy-minded, but you don't have a conspiracy in mind here.

No, because I really believe that when you look at all these things, and by these things, I mean these really disturbing instances of violence like Luigi Mangione or Charlie Kirk or these school shootings, there is something going on with these kids. It's nihilism. It's these people that are maybe mentally defective, extremely online. I think there's a real problem there. I don't doubt that sometimes these people are involved with maybe a foreign government or they're being groomed or put up to it by an operative. But I think to assume that it's always that ignores that there's a very real problem of nihilistic surrealist violence that comes from young people. This guy killed... It's a triple homicide out of nowhere, and then he tries to kill me. I think he just went crazy, but I could be wrong.

Describe the circumstances that have led to this violence? How does a normal kid, young man, go from being a normal young man to being a murderer?

I think that it has a lot to do. If you read through all these stories, they always have a few things in common, which is that, and people have pointed this out, this is not new, SSRIs are always a big one. Of course. But what that points to is a depressive streak. It's always somebody that is a loner, a socially dislocated or socially dysfunctional. They don't have many real life friends, engage in real life activities, slip through the cracks. That's always how it starts. Then they get into either they're medicated by a therapist with with SSRIs, or they self-medicate, which is extremely common with alcohol, weed, which is extremely potent now, and you could get THC from a vape pen. So it's very powerful, very accessible. When I was in high school, My stoner friends would have to go on a walk to the park and roll a joint. Now, with the vape, you can hit that anywhere, I guess. It's very discrete. They also do psychedelics. I think that's a huge part of it.

How is that a huge part of it?

I think that a lot of them get turned on. They'll do alcohol, marijuana, and then I think they get into psychedelics like LSD or MDMA. I think those things induce psychosis. These psychoactive drugs, whether it's marijuana by itself or it's LSD, I think they tend to induce psychosis and exacerbate those existing problems. Basically, what happens, I would say that is maybe the next step. Then the Another ingredient that's always there is although they don't have a social life in the real world, they have a social life on the internet. So they're deeply involved in obscure internet forums, Discord, gaming communities. Increasingly, ChatGPT is inducing psychosis. People talk to ChatGPT all day, all night. And you basically have between the three of these things, they go into a different world. Between the psychoactive substances, the make believe reality of the Internet, totally disconnected from the real world, I think they enter into this delusional state. And I think that's where that shooter in Minneapolis, I think that's what that was. I think if Tyler Robinson is found guilty, there's been some interesting screenshots about him and his transgender boyfriend. It's the same story there, if that's true.

I would imagine it was not dissimilar with the guy that showed up and tried to kill me. I think those are always the ingredients that produce that violence.

It's interesting. Your audience, as I imagine it, I've never seen any of your numbers. I don't even know how big your audience is. It seems big. To me, but I think of them as young men. That's the bulk of your audience, right? Yes. And yet here you are criticizing weed and video games and the internet, and you work on the internet. You are a creation. I mean, you wouldn't exist It's not the internet, of course. You didn't get a job at NBC News. What reaction do you get when you say, when you criticize weed gaming in the internet to young men?

A lot of them agree with it because they get it. Their life. A lot of them, that's their life. Their life is, and another thing we didn't even bring up is the porn thing, which is there also. This is their life. Weed, gaming, porn. I think they know it's bad. I think they know there's some sense of guilt. And so it's interesting. I would say it's maybe an 80/20 split, where 20% say, Oh, you're against weed? Not cool, man. It's just a plant. They're very defensive about it, about these addictions. And I think 80% say, I know I have a problem. I have a guilty conscience. I know it's bad. I know it's terrible.

Why are you against weed?

Because I think that it compromises the integrity of your mental faculties. I think there's something deeply wrong with that. I'm against alcohol, too. I think it's wrong to numb pain. I think pain is a part of life. I think sobriety should be experienced. I think that weed is even worse because I think that, one, it's very dangerous. There's a lot of numbers now out of California and Washington that people are going to the hospital for psychosis. People are going crazy because of it.

It's also more subtle, and therefore more insidious. You can't... I've done it. If you have a 12-pack for breakfast, everyone knows. But if you take a hit off the dab pen, nobody knows. So you can use it all the time.

Yeah. And it makes you a loser. It makes you lazy. People that are addicted to weed are not motivated, don't care about anything other than weed. There's an irony there where I used to hang out with a lot of Stoneers in high school. I never smoked weed, but all my friends did. They were so chill and relaxed and didn't care about anything. But if you criticized weed, they would freak out and get extremely defensive. Yes, I've noticed. If you that it's addictive, if you say it's a problem, they get very junky behavior. I've always hated it. I think it's disgusting.

What is porn exactly? Describe How available is porn? What is it? I know what porn is, but you said it's a huge factor in the lives of young men and a bad factor. Why?

Well, this is another thing where it's Reality distortion. That's the theme. Just like psychedelics distort reality, just like a internet society is a form of delusion, so is porn in the sense that a lot of people maybe don't realize, and we talked about this a little bit, people are getting turned on to porn when they're 10 years old. When you are going through puberty, when you're developing your sexual faculties, how could you stay away from that? Every kid has a phone, every kid has an iPad, and every iPad and phone is, if you know what it is, loaded up with porn. It's infinite, and it's ubiquitous, and you could get every It's the it you want whenever you want. It's in your pocket. Something that is almost never talked about is that this is a generation that's totally sexually dysfunctional, I think, because of pornography. Some people are able to cope with it. Some people don't have a problem, but I think a lot of people, and maybe even a small minority, have a serious problem with it. How does it make people sexually dysfunctional? I think that it's impossible for a real woman to compete with the availability and the novelty of pornography.

A real woman, without getting graphic, she's only one person, and maybe she wants to do something sexual, maybe she doesn't. Porn is you could have 100 different women in one sitting doing anything. That whatever niche or idiosyncratic thing a person might be into, it's there. I think that novelty, combined with that availability, it makes it so that when you think about courting a woman, juice isn't worth the squeeze. There's also a problem of erectile dysfunction, people that can't enjoy regular sex because it does not compare to the intensity, the novelty, and the availability of porn. It's hyper stimulation. I think that's sabotaging a lot of normal sexual relationships.

It seems like it's making a lot of people gay, too.

Yeah, and trans.

You think that's true?

A hundred %.

What is that?

I think that the novelty is a huge part of that. I think that if you are somebody that uses pornography multiple times per day, which many people do. Actually? Oh, absolutely.

That's a lot of jerking off.

It's a huge problem. If you're doing that multiple times a day, every day, for years, since you're a kid, well, eventually, you get bored and you want to move on to something more extreme. It operates, I think, similar to a drug. You have the same resistance to it that you would to a drug or a tolerance for it. You're always chasing that initial feeling the first time you used it or the first time you saw a certain thing. I think eventually, you just chase more taboo, more transgressive. I think maybe some people are more prone to that than other people going in this really extreme direction.

No, this is how Charlie Sheen got AIDS, actually. Yeah. Through just being jaded and looking for something more transgressive. That's just a fact.

There's something, too, about what it does when you look at it. Because people don't realize that it is a fundamentally different experience being involved in intercourse versus watching other people have intercourse. I think that actually does something to you.

Tell me, what do you mean?

I think that, for example, I think Steve Saylor has written about this, that there's multiple kinds of transsexuals. He says, A one transsexual is somebody that likes the idea of seeing themselves as a woman. It's autogynophilia. Yes. I think that one of the theories for that is you watch a man having sex with a woman that isn't you so much, you achieve an identity with the woman in a weird sick way. You almost identify with the woman. And so there's weird things that happen when you're watching that and having such strong emotional and sexual experiences with it.

That's fascinating. I've I've sensed for a long time, having had a lot of young male employees mention porn as a problem. The big porn companies give visibility to foreign intel services on the back-end. So that means people know what you're looking at. There's likely video and audio of you watching. That's such a deal killer for me. I'm not a huge expert on the topic, but I have always sensed this was a huge deal, but I've always been too embarrassed to do a show on it. But it sounds like you're describing something that's everywhere that affects everybody and that is, do you think it's related to the huge decline in actual sex and relationships in marriage, screwed up dating? All of this derives in part from porn, do you think?

I think it's a huge part of it. It's a huge factor. It's even on the other side, too. It's become so destigmatized for women to actually participate in porn. People don't even recognize that OnlyFans is a whole separate category. It's an innovation in the realm of pornography because you have what everyone considers, what everyone knows as porn, which is like of porn stars, dedicated career, sex workers having sex in a relatively controlled environment or something like that. But then you get OnlyFans, which is like Patreon for nudes or sex. Basically, there's now a very large subculture, much larger than people want to admit, of women who the moment they turn 18, that is what they do, is they make an OnlyFans account and they become an amateur porn star. It is completely casual. Because you could say that maybe 10 years ago, even at the heyday of internet porn, to be in porn, you got to be a porn star. That's your life, and that's your career, and that's who you are, and it's very shameful. With OnlyFans, it's like having a TikTok. It's like, here's my link tree, here's my Instagram account, here's my Facebook account, here's my YouTube, and here's my OnlyFans.

Why would any of this be legal?

I think that, well, there's, like you indicated, maybe there's an intelligence benefit to that. Maybe there's a political benefit to that.

I think that- Why wouldn't you arrest the people who run something like that?

They should be. If you had a Christian government.

Or how about just a government that cares about its people? I mean, is Iran a bigger threat or is OnlyFans? Iran is not turning my daughters to prostitution that I'm aware of.

Right.

I mean, that seems like one of the worst things that could happen to any society.

Oh, Absolutely.

How big is the support for that? If a candidate were to come out and say, We ought to arrest the guys who own MindGeek, which is the biggest, I think it's the biggest, porn supplier in the world or the guys who run OnlyFans, what would the reaction be among I don't know, people under 50?

I think there would be broad support for that. Really? I do, actually. Yes.

I hope someone will say that. Someone needs to. I hope someone arrests them right away.

Yeah.

That was actually one of- Seizes their assets and puts them in prison.

Seizes their Their bodies. It puts them in jail. Yeah.

The owners of that, people who are... I mean, talk about human trafficking. Oh, yeah. I thought we were against human trafficking.

Yeah.

But you think that young people, because you always think of young people as so liberal, but no, they wouldn't think that was crazy?

No, I think especially among young men, they know it's a problem. It's ruining their lives, and they know it.

What are the other factors that prevent... I'm sorry I called you gay, by the way, but I'm always... I think I'm just too old or something. I'm like, Why isn't anyone married? You tell me, why aren't people married?

Well, I mean, honestly, it's the women. The women are extremely liberal. No one talks about that. Increasingly, they do, especially after the last election, there's a 45-point difference between men and women. The men are extremely conservative, increasingly. The women are extremely liberal.

What are they liberal on what issues? What does that mean, liberal?

They're very feminist.

Like, actually?

Extremely feminist, yes.

I don't believe that, do they?

I think they do. Really? Absolutely, yes.

How could you believe that? If gender roles are a construct that none of this is inborn, you'd have to be an idiot to think that.

They like the idea of it. They like the... Because, of course, I think all women naturally want strong men. Of course, obviously. They naturally want a Chad. They want a tall, buff guy. But I think they like the idea of... None of them want to work either. None of them actually want to work.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Of course. That's obviously true. It's always been work outside the home. They don't have enough work at home. There's a lot to do. But no, I completely agree. So that's why I question, they're feminists in what sense? Yes.

They like these vague appeals to equality. We want a chance to work and we want respect. Ultimately, I think the whole political system is just based around women never being accountable for any of their choices. Ultimately, that's what abortion is. Yeah, of course. Because 99% of abortions are elective. So they say it's an unplanned pregnancy. You had sex out of wedlock with someone you didn't intend to kids with. So now we have to kill the kids in the womb. And these no-fault divorce laws. These women get married to guys maybe they never intend to stay with. And then when they're out, they're done. And they want child support, and they want half the stuff. And I think a lot of men are looking at women, and they're very liberal, they're overweight. They have a very high estimation of themselves. I think people call it hoflation. Hoflation? Yes. Their sense of their own looks and sexual value is very inflated. A lot of people are looking at these frumpy, obnoxious, loudmouth, liberal women who are also very promiscuous and saying, this is not actually appealing at all. I don't want to start a family with a person like this.

Sounds awful. Yeah, it is.

But if you believe in the patriarchy, as I fervently do, because it's just reality, we didn't choose the system. We were born into a system that is part of nature, can't get out of it. If you believe that that's true, which it is, then you think that men should lead. If it's going to be better, men should make it better because that's their job. You don't want to give them a pass, do you? It'd be like, it's all the girls suck.

I don't even blame it on the women because I think that it's the incentive structures. Women are allowed to do this by the legal system, by social norms. Technology is a big part of it. The attention that is available to women. Women go on Instagram and they get attention from thousands of men. So it's the incentives. But I would say that, because I hear this all the time, people say, Well, the men need to step up and be better and lead the women. Easier said than done.

I agree with that.

They're at war with the system, and not even just the system, but also society. Because let's say you find one of these so-called good girls who's Christian and traditional, but through osmosis, wherever you go, she's going to be in society. She's going to be on TikTok. She's going to be on Instagram. She's going to be talking to other women. And maybe she's one way when you meet and get married, but 10 years down the road, 15 years, 20 years down the road, people change. I think that women as the ultimate conformists, the ultimate enforcers of social norms, I think eventually the pressure from society gets to them, and a lot of them will go in a different direction.

It depends what husbands they have. I mean, if there's real leadership at home, I don't know a single happily married woman who's liberal. Not one. I know a lot of married women. I mean, I'm 56. All the women I know are married. And every happily married woman is non-liberal. I can't even imagine. There's no category for happily married, middle-aged liberal woman. There has never been one.

Right.

So maybe the job is to make a girl happy and all this nonsense ends.

Yeah, I don't know. I think that that could be a bottomless pit, too, because the one critique I have of the men is, and you're right about this, they enable this behavior.

Well, that's for sure.

It's an epidemic of simps who Especially with Christians, I've noticed this. This is why Andrew Tate has so much appeal, and the Christians are losing this conversation. Andrew Tate is a Muslim polygamist who is very chauvinistic, and you could even argue it as someone who has ran an OnlyFans site himself is not an observer, let's say, of Christian sexual morality. No. But men are going with him because he's putting women in their place. He's talking about patriarchy and women's place in a society like that. Whereas Christian men, Catholic, protestants alike, are both tone policing the men, and they worship their wives. They worship the women, put them on a pedestal, and they They get bossed around. They get henpecked by the women.

I think we're required to love our wives. I mean, all over the New Testament, husbands love your wives, wives respect your husbands. That seems like a very natural balance to me.

Yeah. I think that you have to love your wife as your wife. Yeah. A lot of men- As opposed to what?

Your mom?

Well, no. No, that doesn't- Like your buddy.

No.

Because I hear this all the time, and I hate this. Guys will say, I married my best friend. I think, she's your wife. She's not your best friend because there's a difference.

What is the difference?

I think that when you talk about your best friend, you're a peer, you're an equal, and I think your best friendships are with other men. I think that your wife ultimately is subordinate to you. She's your helpmate. Ultimately, as the man in the marriage and as the father, you have the final say over the household. She can give advice. It's not to say, I'm not a freak, where you say, Shut up, woman. I mean, of course, you discuss things with your wife and your wife gives input, but the authority rests with the man.

Of course. Of Of course. But God set up this amazing system where men are physically stronger. So of course, you could make your wife do whatever you wanted. You're bigger than she is. But he also instilled in men this desire to please your wife. That's a It's a very natural thing. You want your wife to be happy. Absolutely. The whole happy wife, happy life thing is completely real. It's like you can't get away from it. It's not like all of these things. It's not a choice. It's the biological reality that you live with, that you were born with. You want your wife to be happy, if she's unhappy, you're unhappy to a much greater extent than vice versa. I think men care about their wives being happy much more than wives care about their husbands being happy. Yes. I have noticed. That's compensation for their lack of physical power. That's my view of it. That's why it is this perfect balance. But somebody needs to be the final decision maker. I completely agree. When you give up that, when you abrogate that, there's no respect, there's unhappiness, and then there's infidelity.

Right. Well, that's the ingredient that's missing. The way I would put it very succinctly is men right now are the responsible party but have no authority, and that doesn't work.

No, it doesn't.

If the buck stops with you and you're to blame and you're the responsible one, then you also need to be able to have the final say and call the shots. And one without the other doesn't work. And I think that- I think that's really smart and absolutely right.

I do think, I just noticed this, that men who stay unmarried for too long become fragile. There's something about the give and take. There's something about living with, in fact, I think it's the key to life, someone you don't fully understand that broadens you, that keeps you always thinking, that makes you wiser, more patient, more thoughtful, more self-aware, and more flexible. And those are all good qualities. And the absence of that, in homosexuality or men who are single too long, they get very rigid. Have you ever noticed this? I like things the way I like them, and they just get like, no.

Oh, yeah. I certainly get what you mean by that.

Yeah, you don't want that.

Yeah. I would say that when you say you don't fully understand women, to me, I feel like women are very simple in terms of- Have you ever lived with one? No, I haven't lived with them. But I mean, and don't get me wrong, maybe it's difficult, but I feel like they're pretty simple.

We're all pretty simple. I mean, no one's more simple than I am, but we're all pretty simple. But what I mean is on a day to day, on the level of experience, you don't always understand what they're saying, because it's never about what they say it's about. Right. And men just tend to be doglike in their straightforwardness. I'm hungry, I'm horny, whatever it is.

I disagree. I feel like men are complicated. I feel like women are like, I'm hungry, I'm horny. I feel like men are very complicated.

Really? How?

Because men have different... Men are masters of the universe. Women are the universe. This is what Spengler says about them. And so I think that men have a deep connection to things like math and space, and they want to conquer the world. Things like this. And women, I feel like, are actually very primal and instinctual. They want security. Yes. They're of the terrestrial.

100 %. Never embarrassed by bodily functions. Men are so squamish. Yes. Women are not at all. They give birth. No, that is absolutely true. But I mean, in the way that women present their concerns, there's almost always something that's not being fully expressed. I got mad at you last night because I was pissed about something last year. That's not a male thing to do. You can't remember what happened last year. Right. But anyway, but whatever the point, men and women talk past each other constantly. They don't always know what the other one is saying. That frustration actually gives way to great beauty over time, I would say.

I don't know. I personally find women very frustrating when they are not expressing. I just view that as like- That's the beauty of it. See, the way I look at it is like, when you look at your favorite TV shows, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, it's like the wife is the villain because it's like the main character, if the wife could just get out of the way, would be running the show. And that's how I feel like, Ayn Rand, I agree with her about this. She said that the wife's role is like hero worship. The guy is the hero. The guy is supposed to be the entrepreneur, the conqueror, whatever. And the woman is really supposed to support the man's goals and be in his world. And I've felt that way. Man, that's the last thing successful men need is more power worship, more hero worship, more, you're so great.

You get that at work. You don't want that at home. You become an unbearable asshole. And then you fall prey to what destroys every successful man, which is hubris. You must take your sofa God. You need someone who's not interested in what you do at all, only interested in you. And that's how you become balanced and wise. That's how you know your own limits. Because the ass-kissing is what kills you. It's not... I mean, you had someone come to murder you at home. It doesn't seem to have affected you that much.

And if I were married, dude, she would never let me hear the end of it.

Well, that's probably true. But that's not what destroys men. It's not adversity that destroys men. It's comfort and flattery that destroys men. That's what happened at King David. It's what happens to them all. They're so great. You can never go wrong.

I just feel like we have I don't feel like we have an abundance of affection from women. You know what I mean? In terms of where the pendulum is at, I feel like the women are very unloving to the men. That's why they don't cook. Because that's the best way to express a love for a man. I said this on my show the other night. I'm like, the most beautiful words a woman could say is, I made you dinner. I made you cookies. Because that is an act of love. I think that, speaking as maybe from a different generation, the way that men feel now is like, women are not really providing too much. They expect so much from the men. They want the man to be rich and provide. They want the man to be fit and a real leader and a real man. They also want to split the chores with the man. They want the man to do half the laundry and half the dishes and things like that. And it's like, so what do you do all day? You're on TikTok, you're doomscrolling and eating Cheetos. What actually are you providing in the relationship?

Relationship. So I just feel like in terms of the deficit, it's like women are very emboldened. They're too, I think, assertive, always giving their opinions, always critiquing, always I think that they're very bold right now, and I think, and sarcastic. I think that's a big reason why they're not very attractive.

I get it. All I would say is that in a happy marriage, all of that goes away. There's no arguing about who does what. People fall seamlessly into the roles they were born into. They acknowledge those, they're not insecure about it at all. They express love in a whole bunch of different ways by serving each other. It's super easy. And all of that obnoxious, entitled, you don't make enough money, all that crap just disappears. Anyway, that's been my experience. So last question, where is all of this going in this country? Where are we in five years?

Not anywhere good. I'm really concerned. I'm not one of these doomsday sayers. There's a lot of people that forever... The sky is falling every day. But I really feel like the things that concern me the most, it's the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Seemed like we crossed a Rubicon there.

I agree with that.

Because he's just a conservative guy, relatively moderate, expressing his opinions. He's not the President. He's not a politician. It It wasn't just that he got shot. It was what happened afterward, which is that 100,000 liberals went on TikTok and celebrated. That shows that how can you integrate or harmonize with people that hate you that much? They see some. I understand that liberals thought he was a jerk, like maybe he was a little rude or something like that. He really wasn't. I mean, he was pretty patient, as patient as they got.

I just tried to fill in for him last week and immediately snapped at some kid and threatened beat him up and went crazy. I had said a prayer for patience, by the way, and I still couldn't handle it. Charlie Kirk was a remarkably even keeled, patient, decent man.

Yes. Whatever their perception of him was, to see him get his face blown up in front of everybody like that. The first reaction of someone in the crowd who is present, some guy with the beard jumps up and celebrates. Did you see this? No. Some liberal kid in the audience jumps up and says, All right.

I literally can't handle it. I'm so upset by it. I haven't looked at anything.

It's disgusting. I saw that and said, Yeah, there's no putting the genie back in the lamp here. That was one. The other thing I'm really worried about is what's happening at these ICE detention centers, where it's happening not far from where I live in Broadview, Illinois, where they set up an ICE detention facility. The administration is rounding these people up, which I support, but they're doing it in a very provocative way. They're broadcasting it. They're making hype edits on Twitter of these raids on apartment complexes, which I think are very cool, but it's somewhat provocative. Antifa is showing up. In order to protect ICE, the administration is putting DHS. Well, now they're protesting the DHS presence. The administration of the governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago are telling Chicago police don't help ICE, and they're encouraging the protesters. What I see there is a level of tension that just keeps increasing. There's leadership. There's civilian leadership on both sides, like the governor and mayor who are Democrats won't back down versus a Republican President. There's a security division, too. The police versus ICE, the police versus DHS. There's a constitutional question about the federal supremacy.

I see all the ingredients of a low-boil civil conflict, full-blown civil war. I'm not that guy, but I see all the ingredients there for that to happen. I'm deeply concerned about where that will go.

How would you handle it if you were in charge? If you're the President, what do you do about that?

I think, maybe this is controversial, but they have to crush the other side. Because you can do one or two things. You cannot challenge the left and let them do their thing. Or you can utterly confront them and defeat them and remove hope from the equation. If you resist, you will be arrested. We're just, this is an insurrection. There's 10 million people here illegally. We're getting them out. You're rioting. You're going to jail, too. It has to be crushed. But if you do anything less than that, if you do in the middle, all you're doing is antagonizing and feeding the other side. If they think there's a chance they can win, they will get bolder and stronger, and they'll start to rally. And that's when it's people think it's close or it's contentious, that's when it breathes. That's when oxygen is fed to this fire. So if I were Trump, I would say, screw 200 National Guard, like arrest the mayor of Chicago, like arrest the governor, shut it down, make it clear. Like Washington, bring in the troops and say the federal government is supreme. The immigration law is a the land. If you're not on board with that, you're going to jail.

If you attack ICE or box them in with your car, you're going to jail for a long time. Anything less than that, you might as well just not even bark up that tree at all.

nick Fuentes. Thank you very much.

Thank you. It's nice to meet you. Likewise.

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