Transcript of JFK, UFOs, Atlantis and Mind Control: The Man Who Put World Famous Conspiracies to the Ultimate Test

Well, it's been 63 years since President John F. Kennedy was murdered, and we still don't know the full story, or even— The outline of the full story! Why don't we know that? Why can't we know that? And that's not the only thing we don't know. All over the world, for example, there are huge stone structures built thousands of years ago. We're told that primitive people built them with primitive tools. Really? Have you looked at them? A modern stonemason couldn't do that with modern tools. Why is no one interested in finding out how these things were made?

Yeah.

So you've gone through and reassessed, and with some rigor, I would say, logical rigor and science, a bunch of different stories, theories that are, you know, kind of ever-present in a lot of people's minds. And I just want to go through some of them and ask what you've learned. And some of these, especially the first one, the JFK assassination, it's like kind of hard to think about what you could add to that, but I think you have added something to it. So what has surprised you or struck you about that story as you've looked at it?

Well, I mean, I didn't realize there was this alternative motive theory that Jeff Cook Shank, who are our shadow figure, the way the show works, a shadow figure is someone that has a theory.

Yeah.

Or a conspiracy, a theory of a conspiracy or mystery. That's who the shadow figure is. So in this one is Jeff Cook Shank, and we didn't want to do a show where we had the theory and we investigated our own theory. We wanted to talk to people that had these theories. But my frustration has been, as a fan of these topics like ancient aliens and things like that, has been watching these shows and seeing historians and experts and college professors getting on cameras and changing from face to face and you're just talking about it. I'm like, well, somebody go get a shovel and dig a hole.

Exactly.

Like, somebody go do it.

It's unsatisfying.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I could do that. I could get a group of special operations guys who have investigative spirit. They're highly intelligent, highly capable. We have all the modern technology and ability to do that. We could go investigate these things. And so let's talk to these people that have these theories and either prove them or debunk them or find out more information for them. And so Jeff Cook Shank in the JFK episode is an Australian intelligence officer, his whole career in Australian intelligence. And he also, as part of his job, was investigating the JFK assassination.

Yes.

And so he had his own theories of why. I mean, there's tons of reasons why someone would have wanted to kill JFK. You know, Robert Kennedy putting the mafia in jail, us attempting to assassinate Fidel Castro, JFK allowing a coup in South Vietnam, Russia, like all different kinds of reasons that could have happened. But one that Jeff Cook Shank presented was his beef, JFK's personal beef with Alan Dulles, Director Dulles of the CIA.

Yeah.

With all the nuclear, like the world's on the edge of a nuclear war. And Kennedy's worried about that because there's a program called Project Palladium that, by the way, this is going to come back later, Lee Harvey Oswald was part of in the '50s. And Project Palladium was the spoofing of Russian radio defense system, radar defense systems. So we were like kind of probing their radar defense systems. At the same time, the U.S. military is doing things like these different operations.

The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald, who was arrested for the murder, then of course famously killed by nightclub owner Jack Ruby two days later, but the fact that he was involved in Project Palladium, is that one of those weird coincidences? Do we think it's relevant?

Well, I mean, it goes to the fact that they think he it could have been a weird coincidence, right? But it also he was part of the there's some CIA folks that said that they were following a lookalike in Mexico to pin the assassination of Fidel Castro on Oswald. And so if he was part of that, then they think that it eventually shifted from killing Castro to killing JFK.

Why wouldn't the President of the United States be able to get access to information in the branch of government he controls?

Well, I mean, that's been kind of UAP. I mean, I don't think President Trump has access.

No.

To these programs right now. I think there's a secret segment at part of the government that has worked outside of congressional control for quite some time. And if you look at something like the Majestic 12, which is if you know what the Majestic 12 is, I'm sure you do. For those listening, President Truman started the Majestic 12 to investigate UAP activity. It was briefed to Eisenhower, but no one sense, including JFK, who he wanted access to this information about this Majestic 12 or MJ 12. And so I think JFK was probably the first President that this was kept from.

Why would a President put up with that? I know we're going far afield here.

Yeah, yeah.

That's not self-government. If the guy who's been elected by the population to run the country can't see information in the government he controls, then how is it a democracy?

It's not. It's not. I mean, we there are certainly from what I've I know you've done extensive amount of research in this too, but from what I've researched as well, I mean, this has been an issue for many Presidents. Many Presidents, when they personally get in the White House, and I mean, if I was President, the first thing I want to see is I want to see I want to see the grays. I want to see the aliens. I want to see the aircraft. I want to see these things. And they've been stonewalled to see these things. And including members of Congress right now. I mean, right now you have members of Congress like Burleson and Burchette who are trying to go see these sites and they're not getting access to see these sites.

That just means it's a separate government.

It's a separate government. Exactly.

Right. There's a country.

And by the way, we could go way into this, but there's money being siphoned off to fund these programs.

Of course.

A tremendous amount. When you have an imbalance in budgets like we have, right, it'd be pretty easy to siphon off money to run these programs.

Yeah. Well, I know the rigorous annual audits they undergo must find those imbalances.

That's true.

Yeah, right. Okay. So sorry. Back to the Kennedy assassination. So is Cook Shank's belief that Oswald acted alone?

No. He believes that he was part of a CIA assassination team. Now, whether that was official or rogue, he doesn't really make claim to that. But he does believe this is the same assassination team that was being used and trained to assassinate Fidel Castro. Again, they were in Mexico having a Lee Harvey Oswald lookalike filming him going to Soviet different Soviet embassies and different locations to really plot to for him to be the Patsy for a Fidel Castro assassination.

Well, he believes there was a team. And he believes there was two points of trajectory for redundancy.

Yeah.

Which, you know, if you had that kind of target, you'd want. If it's a real assassination attempt, not just some crazy person, you would want some redundancies.

Yep.

And so that any type of military operation, you would have that. And so he believes that whether it was Oswald or someone else was in the Texas Book Depository building, sixth floor, and had that trajectory of shots. Now, you know, I personally believe that Oswald was one of the shooters. Was there two shooters in the Book Depository building? I don't know. There was at least one there. But we also believe a different trajectory that there was one in the trajectory of the Grassi Null. Cook Shank believed that specifically there was someone hiding in the storm drain of the Grassi Null.

We're going to play a clip of what you just described.

Yeah. It was time to see how hard it would be to replicate what the government says Oswald did. Shoot at Kennedy three times, allegedly hitting him twice with a bolt action rifle while traveling in a moving vehicle.

All right, spotter, talk to me.

Hey, we got a target in the vehicle, 12 o'clock, 100 yards.

Roger, that 12 o'clock, 100 yards.

Six miles per hour, quarter value, hold slight left, when ready.

Six miles per hour, quarter value, holding left. Shooter's ready.

Shooter ready. Stand by. Starting winch.

Hold right shoulder. Nice. Headshot. Shoot with chair or no?

All right.

I think you should say, oh, no.

Kind of morbid.

Looks like a.

Am I wrong?

Looks like a good.

It was a good hit?

Yeah.

Yeah, it blew it apart.

Yeah.

It was the bottom right of the skull.

So Mark nailed it. Three shots, eight seconds. The only thing to consider is Mark did have Dennis as a spotter. Supposedly Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

So what do we learn?

So we learned that the Warren Commission, by the way, which was a 1964 Warren Commission, was the investigation of the JFK assassination. By the way, in 2023, they did a Gallup poll and 65% of Americans don't buy that story. No surprise there. But.

I'd love to meet the 35 who do.

Who do, yeah. They go along with everything, right? But one of the things specifically that our shooters disagree with, our snipers disagree with, was some of the forensics and the autopsy, that this was a rear entry wound and a rear lower head entry wound and the exit wound was from the front right skull.

Yes.

We believe that to be from assessment that that was actually reverse, that the entry wound was in the front of the skull and exited out of the back. This has been debated beyond us, right? So since we believe that, that aligned with what Cook Shank's theory was, so we reshot it. First thing we wanted to see was could Oswald successfully pull off eight shots, three shots in eight seconds? We believed he could. And we were able to do that pretty easily. Sixth floor, 60 to 90 yards was the assessment of how far it was, a moving vehicle.

Using the Carcano rifle the same.

We used the Carcano rifle. And another was the magic bullet theory. We wanted to see, you know, could that bullet actually go through JFK and enter the governor? Now you're talking about going through soft tissue of the neck, coming out of JFK's front of his neck, going into the governor, going through his body, going through his wrist, and then lodging in his knee. Could that bullet actually do that? I could say right away, definitively, yes. There's nothing magic about that bullet. You have a 7.5 millimeter bullet, full metal jacket, moving at 2,000 feet per second in excess of 2,000 feet per second.

How far was the storm drain from the vehicle-ish?

Ish, 10 to 15 feet.

Close.

If you imagine just a vehicle driving in the lane next to the storm drain, that's it. And if you're sitting in that storm drain, which is, it's like an urban area storm drain.

Yeah.

It's a very small window. And you had to be waiting.

Pill bottles.

Yeah. Yeah. So you had to be waiting for it to happen. And you probably were queued or he would have heard other shots, right? The shooter would have either been queued by radio or he would have heard other shots as signal shots. And he knew the vehicle was coming. And when it hit, I think we all conclusively knew when it hit because it hit so precise to what the forensics and autopsy show, like right in the exact same spot. And we had positioned that dummy to have that same leaning angle as JFK was holding his neck. And so we believe to be, we believe that Cook Shank's maybe not motive of why it happened, but the theory of a shooter in the storm drain for that third and final fatal shot was 100% correct.

Yeah.

12 or so years ago. What happened to it?

Well, yeah, I don't think we still know even after my episode. But Ashton Forbes is a theorist, and that's who we interview on Malaysia Flight 370. He has a really interesting theory. And that theory is that a government program intercepts Malaysia Flight 370 using orb technology.

Is that Kushner finds himself in a position in the White House with no statutory authority.

And it sounds crazy. However, if the video, which the video's in debate, if the video that he shows is real, then certainly it's plausible, right? You see, so first of all, on the flight, you have 20 semiconductor. Usually when a plane goes down, you're like, who's on the plane? Like you want to know, like that plane went down, who's on this plane? 20 semiconductor engineers that are part of a government program flying from Malaysia to Beijing. So there's a little bit of motive there.

Is that a fact?

That's his claim. His claim, I haven't seen a report. This is his claim that the cell phones are pinging in both locations and that the family members, there's statements from the family members that the cell phones continue to ring for up to a week. So when you call a phone, if it's in the bottom of the ocean, it's not going to ring. It's going to go right to voicemail. But if you call a phone and it's still in service, it's going to ring and go to voicemail. And so family members claim those phones ring for up to a week. And so his claim is that some sort of teleporting technology and these orbs were able to capture that plane and move it to a different location.

What happened to the rest of the people on the plane?

We never heard from them again. This has been searched like for years for debris. And there's been small parts of debris. Some people say it was placed there, but certainly not in finding the aircraft. And there's no evidence where the aircraft would have went.

I don't know what I think. I'm skeptical, though, of that theory.

Yeah, that actually is one of the ones I'm slightly skeptical about as well. The video is very much in question. Ashton Forbes spends his life defending this video. We did have a Hollywood producer come on and look at the video and say that the video was not doctored because of the way the orbs go through the chemtrail and the smoke in the back of the chemtrail, the smoke in the back of the aircraft. He said they couldn't have been doctored because of that. However, we couldn't test that. I don't have an orb weapon system to test.

Yes.

But we could test was the fire theory. And we didn't believe that there was a real fire on an aircraft. We believed that it was a diversion to put on. There was really, the official claim is there was a lithium battery. But if there's lithium battery fire, it wouldn't have made it.

Yeah, and you'd think that if the plane was on fire, there'd be some kind of mayday from the pilot.

Yeah.

Of which there's no record.

That's right.

Is Atlantis a real place?

I believe the proverbial city of Atlantis is a real place. Episode three is probably one of my favorite episodes. I love the ocean. I love diving. And I love the idea of the pre-diluvial or anti-diluvial world before the flood. I believe everything, by the way, in my search for all these mysteries and conspiracies. I'm a Christian like you. And so everything for me begins in a garden. It begins at creation. And as you look at, as I look at our world, the war and division and all these things going on in the world today, I think it all begins there.

Yes.

So it's a very, many people take this book seriously. But it doesn't contradict the gospel. In fact, for me reading it, it actually really helps me understand the spiritual war that we're all engaged in very well. And it helps me understand things like the flood and understanding the flood being an act of mercy and not an act of harshness. So I really think the Book of Enoch really helps me understand my perspective on this. But when you think about that, the Book of Enoch and Genesis 6, it gives you a glimpse into the pre-diluvial world.

Yes.

If you don't understand what the world was like before the flood, you really have no way to make sense of some of these things. And if you go in the Book of Enoch, when it talks about the watchers, who are the 200 angels overwatching Earth, they descend onto the Earth at Mount Hermon, and they want to take human wives to copulate and make offspring, which we know to be the giants, Nephilim, and take those wives. They had to trade a dowry to the fathers of those women and trade.

So for people who don't follow this, I think what you're saying is that our view, the conventional view of history, which is linear, we start off in the caves, hunting and gathering, then agriculture's invented, and then millennia later, the steam engine, and now we're at AI. But it's all kind of like that.

Right.

That's not really real.

I don't think so. I don't think we've.

And because there's archaeological evidence that no one has sufficiently explained using that model.

Right. Yeah. And one of my favorite people to follow in this is Tim Abreino. He wrote a book called The Birthright. It's incredible, by the way. Everyone should read it if you're interested in this. And everyone should be interested in this because it is our history. You can't deny, like you said, that the fact that the guys in the pyramids have structures below that no one can explain. I mean, you can't explain even the megalith structures throughout America. So we have to know where they come from. We have to be able to understand where they come from. And I don't believe.

Because if the people who built them based on radiocarbon dating, we think we know, well, they're certainly ancient. We know that.

Right.

And so we don't believe that people who lived at the period when these were built had the technology to build what they clearly built.

No. I've stood in front of the megalith structures of Machu Picchu. When you stand there looking at 300-ton rock that's carved with such precision, it's like, they ain't going to build this. Maybe they built stuff on top of it, but they ain't going to build this. Like some primitive little mountain tribal person didn't build this. There has to be a pre-existing, they had help from someone. And they probably did it with pre-existing technology. I don't believe, by the way, we've, and you said this, I don't believe we've evolved. I think we've devolved.

Well, a lot of those structures, Machu Picchu is a great example, but the megaliths in Jordan, the mounds in Illinois, like, but some of the stonework, we don't, there are no masons today who could build it.

No.

So like, what does that tell you? In 2026, no, with modern tools, you couldn't build that.

Right.

So no one's explained to any of this stuff. I'm just amazed by how incurious official institutions are in this. Like how can National Geographic or the Smithsonian, like if I'm the editor of National Geographic, I'm, I don't know, I'm assigning piece after piece. Like how were the pyramids built? How did they get the stones 300 feet in the air? Like how did that happen? No one even asks. And it's considered wrong to ask.

Like you said, even curious. And even in a church world, which I'm very much in the Christian church world, it seems to be like pushed back against to talk about some of this stuff.

Why?

I don't know. It's very peculiar. I think the answer why is because there's a spiritual part of a spiritual war and an influence to don't go there. We don't want to go there because there's answers there. Anytime someone tells you, it's my experience, and I think probably yours too, anytime somebody tells you, don't go there, don't ask there, it's because there's an answer there.

Well, of course.

And I think there's an answer there. There's an answer in our history and the pre-diluvial world to understand how many of these things are on this Earth and how they were built. And I believe there was ancient technologies that existed before the flood that the flood wiped out. And we see that the megalithic structures are the remnants of that. And I believe Atlantis, the proverbial lost city of Atlantis, is one of those things. And there's a lot that goes into it that suggests it's in the Bermuda Triangle region.

So Atlantis in myth, lore, history is a sunken island.

It's a sunken island. Yeah. And it's only about, but the Bimini Road, which is where we go to, is only about 20 feet deep. So not very sunken. It's 20 feet deep. Tides change and the world changes, especially if you go beyond a flood, right?

Right. So once the glaciers melted 14,000 years ago, of course they were holding a lot of the Earth's water. And so sea levels rose dramatically when they melted.

Yeah. So yeah. So I think, and look, every, take Christianity out of it, every theological group throughout history points to a global cataclysm, a flood. And so it's not restricted to Christians. We all believe that a flood took place.

Of course. Gilgamesh talks about it. Yeah. No, right.

So a flood did take place. And this beyond that cataclysm, our history was, some of this history was erased. And so even if you go into like Greek mythology, Atlantis ties to Greek mythology, all of it kind of points to the same thing. And I think Greek mythology is probably a offshoot of the stories of the watchers. And so I believe Atlantis was probably a real place. The proverbial lost city of Atlantis was a real place. I believe that it was occupied by angels, fallen angels. And I believe that there was advanced technologies that were there.

In the Bahamas.

In the Bahamas. Now people say that it's, the dispute to it is that it's naturally occurring features through erosion that makes it look like it's megalithic structures under the, so as we spoke to our, in fact, Tim Abreino, who just mentioned our shadow figure on this, this was Tim Abreino. And he tells a just beautiful story leading up to the proverbial lost city of Atlantis and why he believes that it could be in the Bermuda Triangle and near the Bimini Islands, the Bahamas. And so we go there to investigate.

Right angles do not exist in nature.

They don't. Especially when they're consistently right angles. You have multiple right angles making squares, rectangles. Any geometrical patterns don't exist in nature. Particularly pillowing, which would be the pouring of stone. When you pour stone, as it settles, it pillows at the bottom. And then if you're taking multiple different stones and you want them to be level, where you're going to put some structure underneath it to shem it to make it the same level. And so those kind of things that aren't naturally occurring in nature. So these are the things we're looking for.

So based on your investigation into this, there's no question in your mind that this road was constructed. This is not naturally occurring.

Yeah. I can't speak for all of Bimini because there's like lots of stones there, but the stones that we looked at were certainly not naturally occurring in nature. The right angles, the shemming, the pillowing, the drill holes, this is not something that naturally occurs in nature. And so I'm certain from what I've seen and the stones that we looked at, those were man-made.

So once you discover something like this, are there teams of archaeologists from America's preeminent universities who descend on the site to find out more?

I hope so. That's why we came to TCN to learn about it.

Yeah, but of course the answer is no, right?

No one seems to care. And this is profound. Like, I don't know why, like, look, we're a group of former special, we're not geologists, we're not archaeologists, I'm not a historian. We're a group of special operations guys that's super curious about this and went out and looked.

But you're definitely curious about it. I'm totally ignorant. I have no special knowledge of any kind, really about anything, but I'm just curious and I just don't understand why people who are in the business of digging up ancient ruins, archaeologists who are in the business of writing about those ruins, historians, why they're not leaping on this stuff and why they're so reflexively opposed to all of it.

One of the things we were joking about is what they actually care about is when they see a bunch of Neanderthals flipping over, flipping over rocks that they would normally have rushes at. We're on the bottom ocean flipping these rocks over.

So if your theory that Genesis 3 and the Book of Enoch are not just folklore, but are describing physical reality, if that's true, if you're right, then there would be actual physical giants. I mean, that's what those accounts describe. Giants. Men of renown, I think Genesis 3 refers to them.

Men of old, men of renown.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These were successful, the most successful people of the time were actually not fully human. They were half-breeds. That's what the Bible says. That's what Christianity and Judaism believe as a matter of doctrine. So there would be like archaeological evidence of giants, right?

Well.

Is there?

Every time, from my research, and this is something I've been very interested in, and those who I have spoken to who have spent their life researching this, every time there is evidence of giants, it goes to the Smithsonian and never be seen again, which is quite strange.

No, they've denied it. Not that that means much, but do you think that's true? The Smithsonian has suppressed archaeological evidence for whatever reason.

I've spoke to several people. Even beyond the physical evidence that we have today, if we believe the Bible and believe every part of the Bible, the Bible talks about giants. It talks about Goliath and talks about other giants in the Bible. So you can't believe part of the Bible and not believe all of it. So I believe it cover to cover. So I believe giants did exist. I believe that, I believe the modern day stories are true as well. I believe the giant of Candahor is a true story. In fact, Tim Abreino interviewed the pilot in private that flew him out.

For those of us who are not familiar with the giant of Candahor, Candahor, Afghanistan.

Candahor, Afghanistan, that was a story.

You've been to Afghanistan?

I've been to Afghanistan a few times.

Eight tours in Afghanistan?

Yeah, I've been to Afghanistan eight times and I went back for the evacuations. And yeah, so I have some time in Afghanistan. However, I didn't see any giants there. But the story of some Marines getting this gunfight with this giant and.

This is in the 2000s during GWAT.

During GWAT. And a team goes back and actually a team goes back because these Marines didn't come back out. A team goes back and actually kill this giant. And it's brought into a facility and a US aircraft flies the body back.

Wait, the idea is the US Marines fought a giant around 2001 in Afghanistan.

Around 2001 in Afghanistan. That's the story. I haven't talked to any, personally talked to any service members that were involved in that. However, a team went back to go in and see what happened with these Marines and they end up getting in a gunfight and kill this, kill this giant. And then this giant was flown back to the United States by a US Air Force aircraft. I think it was a C-17 aircraft, if I remember correctly. And Tim Abreino interviewed the pilot. So I've had a personal conversation with Tim Abreino who interviewed the pilot.

And the pilot confirmed there was a dead giant on board.

Has not publicly confirmed it, but too, Tim Abreino has confirmed it. And so for him to tell me that he had this interview, personal interview with the pilot that flew this giant out, I believe him. And so I believe the modern day, there is modern day giants that exist. There's some parts of the world. In fact, I won't say where, but Tim Abreino and I are actually going to go investigate a place that has some current firsthand sightings. And it's a very, very, very remote part of the world.

I was just thinking that exact same thing.

Yeah.

I mean, there are game cameras everywhere.

Everywhere, right? Why would you? So that's what I believe. Now, maybe it's just so segment and so small and they're in remote parts of the world, but I do believe, again, you sound crazy for saying this, but I do believe, I would have said it was crazy a few years ago, but after interviewing these, just talking to people I've talked to, I believe there's something to it. And the Bible talks about, and it doesn't talk about it once. So if the giants were drowned off in the flood, how'd they reappear after the flood? That's a big question. I mean, did somehow God make a mistake, which God does make mistakes, by the way, and someone on that boat on the ark was infected and the bloodline was infected?

Should we be on guard against this? Should we be worried about it on the lookout?

Yeah, of course. I mean, the Bible says for us to be on guard, right? Because our enemy, the devil, roars around like a roaring lion looking to devour us. Like we should be on guard every day. I mean, I think one of the biggest strategies of the enemy of Satan is for us to be off guard, for us not to be concerned about these things, for us to believe he doesn't exist and evil doesn't exist. And so what better way to take advantage of your foe than to not even know you're a threat?

I think close watchers of the world are pretty convinced that evil exists.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But people are naive. People are naive to the threat. And look, you cannot believe you're in a spiritual war. I mean, certainly cannot believe it. Most people don't. But we are. You cannot believe there's oxygen in this room we're breathing it. We're in a spiritual war. And there is a real enemy, Satan, and it began in the garden and it's here today. And it may sound like fairy tale lore to people, but it's real. And like you said, you could turn on whatever news station you want to turn on and just scroll your feed on your social media and you're going to see the world is, and it's a broken place.

It scares me for the world. As a believer who's really reconciled a lot of this, it doesn't, because I know the end of the story, right? I know the end of Genesis. I know the end of Genesis 15 is that we're going to crush the head of the serpent. And the end of the book, we win. But that's a happy ending, but there's a lot of pain that happens in the process of that in a war, right? There's a lot of casualties of war. Any war you look at, there's a lot of casualties of war. And right now we're seeing a world in a casualty of war. So it burns my heart for everyone who's not aware that we're in this war, who doesn't take part in a victory in the end by.

One of the manifestations of spiritual war appears to be war.

For sure. For certain. Yeah. Turning a brethren against brethren, nation against nation, and we killing each other. Look, we were talking about Ukraine today and I spent tremendous amount of time both in Afghanistan and Ukraine. And one of the most horrible things I've seen in my lifetime has been the civilian deaths in Ukraine by a war out of greed from politicians around the world and certainly influenced by evil, by spiritual evil. And I would guess 2 million people in Ukraine.

2 million?

I would guess 2 million people between Russia and Ukraine that have died in this war. Over the greed of people, because of the influence, because of the spiritual influences on them.

Do you think that's a, wow, you think it's a real number? 2 million?

I think so. Yeah. No, we're never going to know for sure. They're not going to tell us. But I do believe that's probably the most accurate estimate. And look at the period of time. This is four years.

Yeah, almost five.

Yeah. Yeah. That 2 million people would be killed. And no one seems to know or care.

No one cares. And if you ask even partisans on any side of it, how many people have died? They're not even, they can't be bothered to find out.

No, because if you admit that number, you have to, then you have to address it, right? I believe you're a politician.

Yeah. And if you've been pushing this stuff and if you don't care at all about the slaughter of people, then you sort of reveal who you are. How much time have you spent in war zones?

Well, I've been to Afghanistan eight times. And I was a force recovery. I was a DOD contractor. I went to what's called a JSOC task force. And so I went to Afghanistan eight times in that capacity. And I've been to, outside of that, I've probably been to 20 trips to different conflicted zones around the world doing humanitarian rescue operations.

How much did that damage you?

Well, I mean, when I came home from Afghanistan, like many of our service members today, I dealt with debilitating panic attacks, anxiety, depression. I had a point in 2010 to where I was dealing with such debilitating panic attacks that I had attempted to take my life. I was extremely, extremely depressed. Felt like I had no purpose moving forward. And came to this point of hopelessness that maybe my family would be sad without me, but they'd be better off. And unfortunately, that same hopeless thought finds a home in the hearts of over 20.

There's nothing sadder than suicide.

There's nothing. I mean, it leaves a wake of destruction. They say one in three children were impaired to commit suicide or do it as well. So it's a generational thing.

And you see that. I've seen that.

Yeah. And so for me, there's a lot of things I did in my own recovery after my suicide attempt. But nothing has been more profound for me than the restoration of my faith through a relationship with Jesus. And you met Steve Toth. You've had him on your show. Steve Toth sat across from me just like we're sitting across now. I had written a plan of how I was going to fix my life. I slid it over to him. He didn't even read it because he's a really impatient man. And he just told me, he said, "If this plan doesn't have anything to do with relationship with Christ, I'm not going to help. Waste your time. I'm not going to let you waste mine." And in that moment, I tried everything. I've been on medications.

How do you save someone from himself?

I think when we deal with people that are, because most of the, you know the perfect, it's very self-destructive tendencies because of shame, guilt, sense of abandonment, sense of failure, all these different things that people deal with, you have to save them from themselves. And I think the biggest thing is on a peer level, coming on a peer level and being able to connect with someone at a peer level. Peer level support is, there's nothing like it. Anybody that's dealt with addictions knows that only someone that, only an addict can help an addict, right?

And how was that working for him? Pretty well?

He stayed. Well, it obviously wasn't working well for him because he was at our program, right? But he stayed and at the end of the week.

Not a lot of success stories.

Well, it's a success at the end because he gives his life to Christ and now he's a missionary, doing missionary work in Africa somewhere.

Really?

Yeah. So it's like he didn't come for the evangelical side of it, but when you realize my life's a mess, but there is actually a handbook, I just haven't read it and applied it to my life. When I do, it tends to work out better.

So these are all people who have worked for the US government at one point.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we do first responders as well, so local government as well, yeah.

And they've all been gravely damaged by it.

And the governments, local and federal, had no real answer. And I've been on the hill quite some time at the VA. And still to this day, I've done so much with the VA and even was the chairman of Office of Faith-Based Programs for Veteran Affairs under President Trump. And they still have not conceded to making programs like Mighty Oaks available institutionally through the government. They use us, but they won't make it available.

Well, they definitely use you. It's been 20 years since people started saying out loud, "Hey, the VA, when you show up at the VA and you're damaged physically or psychologically from serving your country in a war zone, they just hand you a bunch of pills." And a lot of those pills are killing people. That was 20 years ago people started saying that. And they're still doing it.

They're still doing it. Look, when a veteran comes and expresses symptoms of anxiety, depression, they don't do a simple blood work test to see if their cortisol levels respect and their hormones level pushed down, their testosterone is pushed down, they just automatically give them SSRI. It could be a very temporary thing that could be solved if they just look at the blood work, but they just instant SSRI. And by the way, when you get put on an SSRI, unless you choose at some point to have intervention into that process, it's for life. You don't just get off of an SSRI after you've been on it for a period of time.

And we don't even have guidelines yet from HHS on weaning from SSRIs. There's been basically, there are people now, one of whom is a good friend of mine, who are working on that, but we still don't have them. And it's been, I don't know, it's been 30 years at least that we've known that SSRIs have been horrible.

When I got off and I weaned off for about a year, it took another year before I would feel like my brain was vibrating at times.

How long were you on them?

Probably like 10 years.

What were the side effects?

I mean, I think the side effects were numbing. I felt very emotionally numb. I would really be in conflict with this because I've always been a very compassionate person, have empathy and compassion. I felt like just numb all the time.

You felt less empathy and compassion for other people?

Very much. So yeah.

Really? And you noticed it?

I noticed it. Yeah. It's very much out of character for me. And when I say 10 years, I was on and off. I get off and I'd feel like I had to go back on because I'd feel anxiety ramping up. And I was terrified of panic attacks.

The scariest thing there.

The fear of panic attacks had pushed me back on. And so eventually, I was able to finally get off. But even after I was completely off for like a year, I still felt this vibrating, like my brain was vibrating from what I attributed to a symptom of getting off SSRIs. And this is pretty common that people talk about the same type of physiological feeling.

If SSRIs worked, the suicide rate would be going down.

But they don't. I think they go up. In fact, one of the warnings on SSRIs is it increases suicide ideations.

So if this is a drug that we give people who are suicidal, but it increases the chance they'll kill themselves, what is that?

What's the point, right?

Yeah. So speaking of government misdeeds, I want to end on this because I think it's really, really interesting. So there have been, I mean, for my whole life in journalism, 35 years, I've gotten letters from people I assumed were schizophrenics saying something. They all say the same thing. The government is sending me messages in my brain and telling me what to think. And I've never one time taken that seriously.

It's my favorite episode on Shadow Figures.

Should I take it seriously?

You absolutely should. So in episode seven of Shadow Figures, as you make the, we're making this show, I thought, I looked at what we were doing and I'm like, this is the one that I'm like, we're going to waste money and waste time at doing this. And it was the most compelling thing to me personally of the show. So we looked at a Project Blue Beam scenario, which Project Blue Beam would be deceiving mankind into maybe like a fake alien invasion or something to bring everyone together to gain control of a population of people. And so there's many things, many scenarios.

What did you do?

So we put them in a separate room and we had them writing down between them a thought. And then we would tell them what that thought was because we had someone witnessing it that we were communicating through the sound to. And then once we convinced them of that, then we put them in this chair with their partner next to them so that the partner could see that nothing strange was happening. And we shot the laser at them. So we had this one female police officer, we shot the laser at her talking to her, but her partner couldn't hear it.

What are the mechanics of it?

So it's a high frequency, I couldn't get the specifics, but it's a high frequency ultrasonic laser that shoots out this ultrasonic sound and it's vibration. So it comes out so much, if you imagine that shock bone conductor, and that vibrates, but it's actually doing it through the sound. So vibration of that sound. So it works the same way, but you're not hearing it through your ears. You're hearing it inside your head.

Okay. So you don't perceive it as a voice. You perceive it as something that's taking place inside your head.

Inside your head. Yeah.

So it's not like you turn to find out where it came from.

No, no, no. It's not like that. It kind of like it almost feels audible because you hear it audibly, but you hear it audibly in your head, not through your ear canal because it's not coming through your ear canal. It's coming through.

At what distance can you do this?

You could do it at least, he said with the equipment we had, we could do it at least 200 yards. We were doing it at.

200 yards?

Yeah. We were doing it, we were doing it at about 25 yards in the tests. But he said with his equipment, you could do it like now, again, this is radio shack level equipment. Imagine what a government could do.

Does the government use this?

Of course they do. If we were able to do it, of course they have the ability to do that. I have no evidence of that. But why wouldn't we? At first, I was like, "This is incredible." And then I thought for a second, I'm like, "This is terrifying." The level of influence that you could have over an individual or a group of people or a mass group of people to be able to do that is terrifying.

Well, yeah, it's one thing to convince someone. It's another thing to control someone to the point where he thinks he thought of it himself.

Yeah.

Like that's true conviction.

That makes someone go crazy. You could drive someone nuts doing this.

And then they'd write me letters. My text is public, so it's like they probably text me all the time.

Yeah. So yeah, it was of all the episodes we've done, that one, it's our episode seven, which we call it the Project Blue Beam episode. It was.

So you're doing all these episodes and you're learning about every single story that you investigate, but we don't have conclusive answers to any of this. Do you think that at some point we will? Do you think that in the end this will all be revealed? What's your personal view of that?

Well, I mean, I think in the end of the age, beyond this life, everything will be revealed to us. But in our lifetime on this earth, I don't think so. I think there's going to be so much obstruction to truth. I think there's many things that are going to continue to be hidden to us from us to the end of this age. I certainly want to keep digging. We did Shadow Figures. It is our first season. There's so much more I want to do. I want to go to Turkey and look at the megalithic sites there.

There's a Black Pyramid in Antarctica?

Yes. It looks like the tip of this pyramid.

Well, this is on Google Maps.

What's that?

This is on Google Maps, I think. You can look it up.

Yeah, you can look it up. And it's, well, it isn't. No one's allowed to go there. So we want to go there.

Says who?

Says all the, I mean, multiple governments of the world control Antarctica and prohibit permission to go there. Why? No one knows, but why can't we go? Who cares if you go across a piece of ice?

Yeah, what are they going to do about it?

What's in Antarctica that, what's in Antarctica that, again, back to what we said earlier, if somebody's trying to stop you from accessing something, it's probably because there's some answers there.

Well, certainly the truth is the only thing that ever gets suppressed.

That's right.

They don't care about misinformation. They care about information.

Yeah. So I mean, the Black Pyramid, there's other things in Antarctica I'd love to see. I mean, the guys at pyramids have so many mysteries to them. There's a lot that's doing this season. I mean, each of these episodes, we don't have any, we don't come, just to spoiler, we don't get a conclusive evidence of anything in these episodes. We test a theory in each one. And so there's lots of unanswered questions. And I certainly want to want those answers.

Man. Chad, thank you for doing this. Thanks for the episodes and thank you for this conversation.

Oh, thanks so much, Tucker. Thanks for partnering with us. And this is amazing to get this out to the people.

I am curious and I just want to keep reminding myself and say out loud, I don't know the answer to any question really, or many questions, but I think it's worth pursuing the truth regardless.

That's right.

Thank you.

Thank you.