Transcript of Megyn Kelly on the Totalitarian Absurdity of the Cornell 7 “Rape” Case

Megyn Kelly, thank you so much for doing this. I, I've experienced this story sort of in the periphery, and Kathy Hochul's involved, and it's this big thing, and I, I don't really know where to go to get an objective and honest accounting of the facts of it. So I'm grateful that you're on to explain it.

How—

what are the basic facts of this story?

Uh, the basic facts are that 4 men at Cornell in a fraternity called Chi Phi had a woman who's going by Jane Doe over on October 19th into 20th, 2024, and had sex with her. It began with just one man. Uh, their names are everywhere, so I'm saying their names now too because I'm one of the ones offering facts that are in their plus column. So I'll say the, the names, lest the narrative only be the bad facts about the names. And I've been wrestling very much with whether I should say her name too, which I also know I haven't yet. But in any event, um, Matt Ingalls is defendant number 1, who was friends with Jane Doe, invited her over to the fraternity, had her in. They danced for 3 to 5 minutes, and then he said, how about we do a threesome? And she had a crush on him. She— they had clearly had sex before, and she agreed. So he tapped a fraternity brother named John Newell on the back and said, want to do a threesome? Then John Newell said yes. The 3 of them went upstairs and attempted to have a, a group sex situation, but Matt Ingalls kept passing out.

He was blitzed, obviously, on something out of his mind. She would later allege that she showed up 10 drunks in— 10 drinks in and disclosed that. The men deny that. There's a phone recording that's been released where she tried to get him to say something incriminating, where he said, you told me you were sober. Uh, but in her lawsuit now, civil lawsuit, she's alleging she showed up 10, 10 drinks in. Okay. In any event, they attempted to have an interlude with Matt. It didn't work out because he kept falling asleep. With John, it did work out. They had sex. Then a 3rd man, member of the Chi Phi fraternity house, came into the room. His name is Gilio Lopes, and he would also wind up having sex with Jane Doe. All of the men say it was totally consensual, that actually at one point the 4th man who came in named, uh, Winston Lee specifically said, we, we don't have to do any of this, Jane, quote unquote Jane. And she said, We're all consenting adults, basically. Like, chill out, we're good. You know, I'm, I'm into it. So Giglio was the third man. He went in, they had sex, and he left.

And then a group of men came in, some small group. Um, we believe it was maybe a total of 3 others and saw her. And she alleges she hid underneath the sheets. But in any event, one or 2 of them may have then snorted drugs, ketamine, off of her naked body with her permission. with her permission. And she alleges that she was given ketamine by Matt and John in the first interlude. There's a dispute about whether that's true, but certainly in the second interlude, which was between John Newell, Jane Doe, and now Jillio Lopes, she alleges that— forgive me, it's graphic— John Newell asked her if she would snort ketamine off of his erect penis and that she did it. And she says she did it because she'd already done it once that night, ketamine, and she just figured, why not? You know, kind of in for a penny, in for a pound. That's my term. That interlude concluded. The men came in. A couple of them asked if they could snort ketamine off of her body. She says she allowed it. They did it and left. And then there is Winston Lee, who you gotta just, you know, it's like this Asian guy who's at Cornell who's like been shuffled into this room, who I think was probably scared shitless if I'm I'm being honest.

And the next thing he knows, she's offering him sex. That's what he says happened. She offered and he was like, oh, I don't— I wasn't picturing it leading there. Just thought I'd snort this ketamine off of you because I'm one of the guys. And she's like, no, let's do it. That's, that's his allegation. And she had sex with him. And Matt Ingalls came back to life, the guy who'd passed out and who was her friend and who she danced with. And he joined interlude number 3. And then she said, I'm tired and I want to go to sleep. They said, no problem. They all fell asleep. And Matt Ingalls drove her home to her roommates and her room in the Tri-Delt House. So that's— those are the basics. What happened right after—

First, let me just say, Cornell, I guess, includes itself in the Ivy League. I assume the value of an Ivy League degree has plummeted to zero at this point, if that's what it is, right?

These aren't like hashtag goals for any normal parent as they send their son or daughter off to school.

No.

We do know that Jane Doe is from the South. She's from the Deep South. She is a redhead. She is on the larger side, I'd say. I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just trying to give you a visual, like beefy, big-boned. I don't know what you would— not obese, but like on the larger size. You know, the men, the couple of them were on the rugby team. They look like your typical college dudes, but they are all minorities, which is an interesting twist in this case. Matt Ingalls, we just found out over the weekend, is from Dubai and is Muslim. John Newell is, I think, Black, or at a minimum mixed race. He has an Afro. Um, Julio Lopes is Portuguese. And Winston Lee is Asian. So it's a very interesting situation because the girl, the Jane Doe, is white and from a Southern family, and all of the young men are minorities, which may be the only thing that saves them now that they are in the clutches of Letecia James. So the, the event ends. In the days thereafter, there's a flurry of texting going on, all of which has Jane Doe affirming that this was consensual.

Jane Doe goes back to her tried-out sorority house, and she with her big sister and says, there's a rumor going around that I'm a slut. And then according to the transcript, laughs, unfortunately, it's true. This is Jane Doe, the alleged gang rape victim that's become, you know, the heroine to all the activists left right now. Then she interacts with the men via text and says directly, I really enjoyed my time with you, John, and with Matt. And at the end of the day, nothing we did was illegal. None of it was illegal. That's in writing. I mean, if you're a young man worried about getting accused, that's about as great a text as you can ever receive. Um, she is texting with Matt as well, like back and forth. She says, um, here, I've got it in front of me. She says, everyone needs to grow up because sexuality and sex and effing is changing and stuff like this is going to become more common. I'm also really open-minded though. And then to her alleged gang rapist, Matt Engel. She writes, I love you, King. This is the woman who's now the alleged gang rape victim.

This is what she wrote. And then what happened at the end of October? Recall the event was October 19th overnight to the 20th. Well, the Chi Phi Halloween bash happens every year, and everyone wants an invite, including Jane Doe. And according to the reports, she was, quote, eager, eager to go to that party with her gang rapists. She couldn't wait. She was thrilled. to go back with them in their presence. And the Chi Phi house— because news of this event was all over campus by this point, some people were saying a girl was gang raped— she forwarded that to Matt Ingalls with question marks saying, what's this? As if she had no idea what somebody was using that word. And he said, this is outrageous, I'm going to report these people. And other people said there was a slut. She was getting a reputation as a slut. One of her texts actually said to Ingalls, my reputation is destroyed. I'm utterly ashamed. Well, yeah. So the dynamic was exploding on campus, and the president of the fraternity ultimately decided Jane Doe should not come to the Chi Phi house on Halloween, that this would not be good for her or anyone, and made the colossally stupid decision to disinvite her.

And, uh, yeah, right?

Wait, can I just ask you to pause and just let our viewers know?

That's when it turned from a consensual event into an alleged rape. Go ahead.

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You are recounting this from memory, which I just have always thought you're the single best. sort of synthesizer of news stories I've ever met in my life, having spent a life in the news business. No, I have to say that because it's true. I've been— I don't know anyone who could do what you just did. So, okay, they disinvite her from the Halloween party. I agree, that doesn't sound like a smart move. What happens next?

So now it's a rape. Now she writes to her friend, quote unquote friend, Matt Ingalls. I knew, I knew it. I'm not— we're not friends. You know, they— the woman always gets the short end. And we later find out that all along, from the morning she got home on 10/20 to 10/3, which is when she officially declares herself a victim, the roommates and the friends have been in her ear.

Yeah.

This was a rape. This sounds like a rape. This wasn't consensual. And, you know, they're in her ear nattering along that she's a victim, which is a much better narrative than a slut.

Yes.

Who willingly, by her own— I'm choosing her word, that's not my word. Uh, so she changes it. She now goes for a rape kit, but of course it's been weeks, so there's not going to be much there. She now goes to Cornell campus police and wants to tell her story. And what happens next is very interesting. Pause there for one second, because in the interim, she tries to get 3 of the guys on tape with these phone calls. Um, saying, I, I remembered nothing and 90% of this was non-consensual. The complete 180 from what she's been saying. And of course the guys are like, whoa, whoa, what? You know, what's the purpose of this call? What, what's going on here? They don't know they're on— they're being taped, but she's trying to set up her case, either civil or criminal. So she goes in and speaks with the Cornell police, and what we will ultimately get as a result of that sit-down which I, I think happened over 2 days, was a 6-page, single-spaced typewritten statement typed by the Cornell policeman, but then reviewed by Jane Doe and signed under penalties of perjury. She understood that it would be a felony to lie in this document, and she handwrote 20-plus notes on the sides of the typewritten statement.

So she reviewed it carefully, and she had 3 victims' rights advocates with her throughout, throughout this whole process, when she went in for the interview and when she reviewed the statement. So she was well represented. She reviewed the statement, and the statement basically exonerated the men. So the campus police officer brings the statement to the local DA in Ithaca, New York, where Cornell is, Tompkins County. He's a Democrat. He reviews it, and he concludes, based on Jane Doe's own words, which he credited absolutely that no crime had been committed. And I'll walk you through why. But let me just tell you this. The law in New York State is that if you become voluntarily intoxicated— and by that I mean you chose to drink, you chose to do drugs, you were not slipped a Mickey when you weren't looking— and then you are intoxicated either by alcohol or drugs, you cannot then turn around and say that you were raped. because you were not capable of consenting. The only way you can say I was incapable of giving consent because of drugs or alcohol is if somebody else slipped them to you surreptitiously against your— like, you didn't know that it happened.

Not I handed you the beer and you drank it. I, the man. That's not— that's not what the law encompasses. It's I tricked you. I took advantage of you by secretly drugging you. That they will count as an intoxicated victim who's not able to consent. The exception to the rule is if I voluntarily drink or do drugs and I get to the point of, quote, physical helplessness. If I'm physically helpless, whether you intoxicated me or I intoxicated me, I can sue and I can bring charges, criminal charges. against you, which makes perfect sense, right? Like, if I drink myself to oblivion and I'm completely passed out and unable to communicate, they're not gonna give some guy a pass who got on top of me. Um, so that's the standard. If you just drank to the point where, you know, you're woozy and you're not yourself and you're really hammered or really high, and then you have sex, New York State does not recognize a crime, period. Unless you cross over to physical helplessness. That's where we are. And knowing all that, this DA looked at her statements, which now I am going to look at a document because it's important you know her words.

Her words. He hasn't released her 6-page statement, but he's released his own 9-page statement, which quotes liberally from her statement. The DA who's been under such fire and has now had the case taken away from him. And this is Jane Doe. I'm just going to read you a few things. describing how she got there. She and Matt Ingalls danced a little. He asked her how she'd feel about having a threesome with 2 male partners, him and another guy. Jane Doe, quote, agreed. This is— I'm quoting her when I say, quote, agreed due to how attracted she was to Ingalls on top of her drunken curiousness, is the word she used. She also, quote, remembered being excited Because she thought that Ingalls and this guy Newell wanting to have a threesome meant that they were gay, which for some reason excited this girl. So there is just no question that threesome number 1 was consensual. She walks through how she made decisions. Matt Newell passed out, or Matt Ingalls passed out. John Newell was dry heaving. She was managing these 2 completely wasted guys. There is a real question about whether they were capable of consenting.

If the law is you get hammered and you can't consent, it should apply to them too.

I was just thinking that exact same thing. Exactly.

She wasn't passing out. She wasn't in and out of consciousness. She wasn't dry heaving. They were. And yet she proceeded forward. Then comes threesome number 2. Okay. And in threesome number 2, she, she talks about how male number 2— this is John Newell— reached for the area near her vag several times. And each time he did, she would swat his hand away. She's recalling saying, no, I don't want that. And this guy, John Newell, obeying. You know, he took a shot. She said no. She's in control. He's seeing what she's okay with and what she's not. And she's drawing the line. In the middle of that interlude, old Matt Ingalls, the original friend who welcomed her into the house, wakes up. And now he would like to get back in on the action. And according to her, she says, uh, he asked whether he could make it a foursome. And that she refused because according to Jane Doe, she says, I knew that that would mean I'd have to have anal sex and I did not want that. So this is Jane Doe, who is not nowhere near physical helplessness according to her own recitation of the facts.

Then she gets the couple of guys who come in. According to them, she invited them to snort the ketamine off of her body, and she did ketamine at least once or twice with these guys. And according to her, she snorted it off of the, the man's unit because she says, I'd already done it once, so there I go. We get to episode 3, interlude 3, the third threesome. It involves man number 1, Matt, and Walter— I'm sorry, Winston Lee, who has testified that she invited him to have the threesome with her. Winston. And during that interlude, Tucker, this is how she describes it, that, um, She says— stand by— that she remembers male number 1, Matt, saying, let's do more ketamine. She remembers snorting more ketamine. She remembered feeling extremely high. She remembered Matt saying he wanted to have sex again because he wanted redemption from passing out earlier. She initially stated that she was tired. Just to be asking yourself whether this is somebody who is physically helpless. She initially stated— we know this from her, I'm reading from her statement— she was tired and she asked Matt, quote, this is sad, but she asked him, what happened to just you and me?

So this is a girl who wanted to date Matt and he was behaving like a complete cad. Conceited. Absolutely conceited. But illegal is a different question. Jane Doe could not remember how it started, but she then engaged in a threesome. She remembered that with Matt and with Winston Lee involving oral sex and vaginal sex. Again, how do we know that? From Jane Doe. She remembers how she had sex and with whom and where. She described her level of intoxication as 8 out of 10 at this point. How do we know that? Because she remembers it. She was able to describe it. The threesome, uh, continued until some point around 5:45 when she was tired and needed to turn in. At that point, both guys stopped the threesome with her. And that was the end of it until Matt drove her home. And then all the text messages after the fact. This is not a physically helpless person. The law has defined what physically helpless means, and it means passed out. It means unconscious, which she wasn't, which is what the DA saw. A woman who was in control, saying yes to some things and no to others.

who was snorting ketamine but was not forced in any way. Her lawyer now alleges forced. Her own statement to police does not allege that. It alleges she said, I'd already done it once, so why not? And even if the guys had said, you know, do it, Jane Doe, this still would not be a situation in which they would find her involuntarily intoxicated by her own statements. She had 10 beers when she showed up. She at least did the first round of ketamine on her own. That piece of this case is done. She is not going to be able to prove she was molested because she was involuntarily intoxicated. And that is why this case was not brought as a criminal matter. However, Jane Doe found herself a lawyer, Tucker. And this lawyer decided to file a civil claim. First, they went through the university kangaroo court, which everybody knows is a joke, and even that thing could only come to a decision to expel Matt Ingalls and John Newell, the first 2. By the way, she had written that that was the Andrew Lude she really enjoyed. Um, in any event, they got—

May I ask, on what grounds did they expel the boys but not her?

They— well, they, they accused the boys of sexually exploiting her. So they exploited her, but she didn't exploit them. And Matt Ingalls was smart enough during that Title IX kangaroo court to say, she molested me.

Yeah.

The evidence that she's given attests that I was in and out of consciousness.

Yes.

And she's attesting that she was performing oral sex. Now, there wasn't an exact lineup of those 2 events happening at the same time, so it wasn't dead to rights that she was doing that to him while he was asleep. It was that they were attempting to do this and he kept falling asleep. So unclear, but still more than she has about that interlude to prove an unwillingness on one of the parts of the parties. And they laughed him out of their kangaroo court. It's an absurdity because the rules have to apply both ways.

Of course.

They were all voluntarily getting high, all voluntarily drinking, and all voluntarily having sex. If she was too intoxicated to participate, so was he, very clearly. But Cornell wouldn't apply that rule. And so now her civil torts lawyer files a civil damages case against the boys. Now it's 7, the Cornell 7, because the 3, one of whom literally just wandered in and wandered out, is now being alleged to be a gang rapist. And 2 others who appear to have snorted ketamine off of her body with her consent, they've been lumped in. And then the original 4. are all gang rapists now. And in that document, the lawyer reveals the disgusting, vile, upsetting Snapchat discussion that went out on the fraternity's Snapchat thread that had 57 participants in all, but most were asleep. This was happening at 1:40 to 5:40 in the morning. So query why all 57 members of this fraternity have been labeled these enablers and complicit. You know, most guys are asleep at 4 in the morning, even fraternity guys. But there were some, including Matt Ingalls and John Newell, the first 2 who did get expelled, who wrote really vile things. John Newell tweeted out, free P-word.

Yeah.

He said it, wrote it upstairs. Matt Newell, who was supposed to be her friend, uh, texted or wrote, um, like, you can just walk in and whip it out. Then someone posted her picture. I'm thinking it was Matt. and followed that up with a caption that read, boys, come whip it out. Somebody else, not one of those 2, but somebody else queried, shop still open? And somebody wrote, yep. And multiple guys were writing, ki-fi, I love ki-fi, celebratory about the fact that there was this woman up there. But there is nothing on there that speaks to her inebriation, incapacity, or anything that would raise questions about consent. in any way. So there's no fruitful ground trying to defend the men's Snapchat conversation, none whatsoever. But that, that too does not render this illegal or speak in any way to consent. It is very possible that, to use her word again, a slut was upstairs giving it away and thought this was fun, thought, as she wrote, Attitudes about sex and sexuality and effing are changing, but I'm just really open-minded. Or thought, as she did, there's a rumor going around that I'm a slut. Unfortunately, it's true.

There is very much the possibility that that girl was upstairs and that men, understanding a crude woman like that was in their house, responded with equal and equally ugly crude behavior and talk.

Yes.

And they're using that messaging thread to tar them with rape, to, to get to non-consensual rape by 7. Um, again, whereas only 4 actually had sex with her. And now we're at a point where all their names are out there. Her name is not, even though, Tucker, No criminal charges have been brought, and she's filed a civil claim. She's asking for money damages, and we still are honoring the media tradition of not naming her. And I, for one, have been very much wrestling with this because it seems deeply wrong and immoral not to.

It—

to me, it seems deeply wrong and immoral. She is trying to have these guys locked up now in another proceeding because Letitia James has stepped in and reopened The criminal inquiry wrested the case away from the Ithaca DA. She wants these guys in jail for 20 years, and she wants to do all of this under the COVID of anonymity, notwithstanding all of those facts as I've just recited them to you.

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And you also have an obligation as an accuser to, to accuse publicly, not in a star chamber. So why would we play along with that?

This— I've been asking myself this question every day since I did confirm her identity. And, you know, the internet has had it for days.

Huh.

I, I actually have it. I mean, I, I know for sure what it is, um, from actual sources and reporting. But here's the thing. The law itself is anachronistic and sexist. The one— the policy that allows alleged rape or sexual assault victims to file a claim in civil court or to come forward as a rape victim anonymously. This is the only crime that we allow this for. Forget children. That's a different thing. They should remain anonymous.

Of course.

But there are a lot of men who would be deeply humiliated to file an assault claim.

Exactly.

Admitting that they had been held up at gunpoint and hadn't fought for themselves, had given over the wallet willingly, and had been effectively humiliated or beaten up by a smaller guy, et cetera. There are a lot of people who can be humiliated by crime who are not afforded the blanket of anonymity upon going for a money grab. That's civil court.

Well, I can say I've actually been there. I got held up at gunpoint as a pizza delivery boy in college. and by 2 guys, and I was totally ashamed that I was held up, and I never filed a police report, um, because I was embarrassed, you know?

Yeah.

Which I don't think would have done anything, but I know that feeling. Like, it's, it's shameful to be robbed. Um, so I don't understand why it would only apply— I mean, I don't think it should apply to anybody. If you're using a public court, then I think you have an obligation. You know, if you can't stand behind the accusation, don't make it.

Absolutely right, Tucker. And that's the thing, we treat women like— here's what's really upsetting about it, because it's like the rape advocates, you know, the rape victim advocates that will come forward and say like, no rape victims are gonna come forward if we change this rule. But here's the thing, that's because you keep telling them that it's incredibly shameful to be raped. These policies telegraph to them, you have shame if you've been raped, therefore you may file anonymously.

Exactly, exactly.

The messaging Should be, of course you're gonna name your— who you are. You have to if you wanna get involved in the court proceedings. And absolutely no one is going to shame you if you turn out to be an actual victim, or we're all going to pile on them as any good society would. But everyone understands if you are an actual rape victim, you have no shame. This whole process, however, will have to be about whether you are or you aren't. And you're entitled to no presumptions in that phase of this proceeding because freedom and lives hang in the balance.

Right.

No one gets a presumption. This is very wrong. We're already weighing the scales in favor of the accuser and against the accused. And we know by nearly 2027 America that that is a very dangerous thing to do.

Yeah, that's true.

Trust me, as somebody who cut her teeth on the fake Duke lacrosse rape case when I was a newbie at Fox. It's an extremely dangerous thing to do.

So what about the families?

We as a media group need to change this because, like, there's this one guy, this shit stirrer online, Michael Tracey. He published the name, and he— even this guy who loves upsetting people, he's irascible, he's not likable, he gets off on being contrarian. just awful.

All true.

Even he then undid his tweet because of what rained down on him for publishing it. So it's like, I really think like we need to get like a group of us and just publish it and just say we're doing it because it's what's right to do. The whole system needs to be changed, at least the media, because the media doesn't have to participate in this court anonymity thing. We do it as a courtesy. And this is not a courtesy. This is actually setting women back by doing this.

And what about not naming the men? I guess it's too late. They've all been named. But I mean, maybe— That's the problem, right?

So she named them. She and her vile lawyer named the men in her civil suit. So she knew damn well what she was doing, which is another reason why she should be named. She opened that can of worms. She could have named them anonymously, right? Males 1 through 7. She didn't. She put their names out there. And honestly, when I reported on this for the first couple of days, I was referring to them as male number 1, male number 2. And then I realized I'm one of the only people in the public eye reporting the facts that are actually good for them.

Yeah.

I better name them because they should have the good facts attached to their names too. Some of them actually, like Jillian Lopes, went back in there after the events and said, whatever this is, we're shutting it down. Like, everybody out. They didn't. actually wind up shutting it down, but he tried, as did another guy who's remained anonymous. But this whole thing has turned into a witch hunt. Now, Letitia James is out for blood. Kathy Hochul stepped in to, to take it away because the DA in Ithaca, under such pressure once those Snapchat messages came out, said, okay, I'll, I'll take it to a grand jury. I'll, I'll let a grand jury hear. Hochul and Tish James said, hell no, we're taking over. You can't be trusted. And Tish James, before that, went public on X and Facebook saying, I stand with survivors, including Jane Doe. Well, her job as a prosecutor is to seek justice, period, no matter what that means, including if it means no charges will be brought. You don't stand with anybody. What if we have another Crystal Mangum here?

Exactly.

Who's basically making up all allegations of non-consensual behavior. So their goose does appear to be cooked. Again, though, The only thing they have going for them, Tucker, is that they're minorities, and at least one of them appears to be Black or mixed race, which is Tish James's language. That actually could appeal to her in some sick way.

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Yeah, it's not. Except we're still at this point that I thought we'd made it past from even the MeToo era, where man hatred is just rampant. Forget we presume they're guilty and all that. What I am seeing around this story and why people need to care, whether they give a damn about Cornell 7— frankly, it should be the Cornell 8, given the allegations against her, or not— is the hatred for men.

Yeah.

By the media, elected Democrats, the female punditry class that's all over TikTok and other social media apps is overwhelming. I mean, it's genuinely scary to me as the mother of 3 children, 2 of whom are boys. Like, and now they want to change the law in New York as a result of this case so that you can— they call it a loophole that you can't claim you didn't give consent if you were drunk. It's not a loophole. It's by design. By design. Andrew Cuomo, sex pest Andrew Cuomo, back in 2000 tried to change it to say, let's let anybody who is drunk, you know, claim she's a victim of rape too. And the New York State Assembly said, we're not doing that. It passed the New York State Senate, his change that would, that would create that very, very loose law that would encompass any man who has sex with a drunk woman. And the Assembly held the line and said, we're not doing that. And for 6 years they've held the line, but now they're under enormous pressure. If this law changes in New York to say any drunk woman can say she didn't consent because she was drunk when she had sex, no sane family can allow their son to go to college anywhere in New York.

You absolutely cannot do that. It would be the most irresponsible thing ever, unless he's going to join the priesthood and there's zero chance of him having any sort of sexual contact with a woman during the ages of 18 to 22. And this is very dangerous what we're doing, and it's because there's a hatred for men out there. It's the thing that got Trump elected.

Yeah.

It's the same guys who feel betrayed by Trump because he didn't fulfill so many of the promises to them. And not to mention what he's done on Iran and so on. And I think so many of these guys just feel untethered now, Tucker, because they have— who do they have to look to for help out of this?

I couldn't agree more. But I wonder where that hatred, I think, is probably the biggest. I mean, we spend a lot of time on race hate, which is real and bad. And religious hate, same, real and bad. But there's no hate that defines American society more than the hate of men, particularly strong men. And I think it really has, like, almost every problem— the big problems we face could be traced to that. And the question is, where does it come from? And I always think that, like, women who are really angry at men probably pulled trains in some fraternity house. And women who behave like that are mistreated by men. There's no doubt. I mean, slutty behavior brings out the very worst in men. I'm not blaming the woman. I'm blaming both sides.

You teach people how to treat you.

It is a fact. That is a fact. I saw it in college. But maybe there's some other reason. But what do you think that's about? Because in a happy society, women and men need each other. They love each other. They respect each other. They can't really live without each other. They're one another's source of— main source of strength. Like, that's the model. And it's worked for Well, since the beginning of time. Why is it breaking down, do you think?

Well, I think it's a combination of modern feminism, which has told generations of young women that this is empowering, that to behave like an unbridled, testosterone-filled young male is their birthright and will make them equal and more empowered somehow. And too many women fell for that and learned the hard way that that's not at all the effect it will have on your life. At all. Yeah, just the opposite. And no man is going to think more highly of you or want to be with you more because you gave it up.

And women will judge you. Women are tough about sluttiness.

Absolutely.

I always notice that.

Absolutely right. But now we are in the call her daddy era where you've got the number 4 podcast in America being hosted by this woman who is literally encouraging women to do anal on the first date if that's what you want, girl. you go for it, which is absolutely foul. And this woman will be nowhere, nowhere when young women like Jane Doe go down that path and then wake up the next day having had sex with 4 different men and don't manage to get away with the narrative that, hahaha, I'm a slut. Yeah, because most normal people are looking at them like they're disgusting. And she has made the behavior of some—

She feels disgusting. She feels dirty. Like, She's misused her own body. I'm not judging. I'm sympathizing. But she feels horrible about herself. I mean, that's true.

Yes. Just— I mean, Bridget Phetasy is very outspoken about this. She used to write for Playboy. She's very open about— men love boobs, and here are my boobs. She's just like this sort of racy gal in her rhetoric. But she's written a bunch about this, and she came on my show a while ago talking about how she was what you'd call a slut and how she's got deep regrets about it. Deep regrets and urging people to reject this. But the second prong is the absence of God. You know, I mean, the move away from Christianity and the move away from no sex before marriage, or at least when you're in love. You know, if you're not married, at least try to be in love, please. If those guys and that gal that night had followed either of those, none of them would be in this trouble. And I think the more we've pushed religion out of the public square and the private, people are left untethered with no moral foundation to understand there is right and wrong, there's moral and immoral, and those choices matter. They will define you. And there's real thing like as sin.

And the last thing I wanna say is while the, you know, whatever wave feminism we're on now will tell you that equality means you can act like a man and all that, they still have these paternalistic demands that they make of the patriarchy that if you don't live up to, they're gonna castrate you.

Yeah.

Right? Like the anonymity of the accusers in court is one of them. That is, what is that? That's, that's there because they want the patriarchy to, to protect the weak and vulnerable women. That's, that's not equality. We don't, like, that's not equal. Even some of the women now looking at the men and saying, you had the obligation in that room to look out for her, which by the way, I totally agree with. They did. They should have. The men I know, the decent men I'm friends with, would never in a million years have allowed that to happen without stepping in there and saying, get out of here. We're getting her home right now. That every man I know would've done that. But these men didn't. And in their defense, they've been raised in this system which has told them, don't be paternalistic, don't open the door for a woman, that's aggressive, that's sexist. You know, don't, don't make a comment about her or how she's attractive in any way, shape, or form. She looks nice today. All of that is being a sexist pig. The only thing that's not sexist or paternalistic or part of the patriarchy is to treat her like a man, which is kind of what they were doing.

Like, she has agency, she has full accountability. We're here making our choices and she, she's here making hers. So it's a very confusing time, I think, for these young men. And that led to the toxic mix of that room inside Chi Phi that evening.

So I wonder how much attention has been paid to the role of Cornell as a school. So here you have a school that's created an environment that's so dark that students famously kill themselves, throw themselves into the gorges at Cornell. And women and men find themselves doing what you just described, degrading themselves, taking drugs. If this were a foster care, it would be shut down immediately by Child Protective Services. Why does Cornell get federal funding when they're presiding over what you just described?

Well, let me tell you, because Cornell passed the most important magical test it can pass. Which is, it's no accident those 4 guys were minorities.

Right?

Right.

That's what Cornell and a lot of these schools, most of these colleges have become about.

Of course.

How many diversity admissions can we get?

Excluding whites, period. Yeah, of course.

Excluding whites. That, that is the sole criterion that determines whether we are good or bad, worthy or not. And they've nailed it. They did a great job. They must be really proud. that 4 of their defendants are minorities. Like, that's a win in their weird, weird circles, right? Like, it's great that the victim was white and the perpetrators are all minority. Like, we've really done something special here. They— I just think there's no accounting for anything else. And I'll just say this too, Tucker. Cornell, yes, technically they're Ivy League. What do you have to do to get into Cornell or any of these top colleges, you have to ruin your first 17 years. Yeah, you have to.

That's right.

Do nothing other than study most— mostly things that will be utterly useless to you in life, that you do not need to know anything about. And you have to play their games in writing your applications and your essays and all that, and say that you value the things that leftists do, and then find out that at certain schools there's not— like Princeton, there's literally not one professor there who's a conservative or a Republican or even a right-leaning independent. That's, that's what you get the privilege of exposing yourself to once you get there after having played that game and given up your entire childhood. And then you get there and you know what? You're probably very, very stressed out and anxious and depressed, and a line of ketamine probably looks pretty good to you. That's, that's how it happens. So that Cornell does have a role in all of it because They foster it, they encourage it. That's exactly the kind of student they want.

But it's not just tuition-paying parents who are floating this, it's federal taxpayers who support Cornell. It would collapse without our tax dollars. So why would we continue to pay for something like that?

I mean, I think it's just our general fascination with how impressed we are with the Ivy Leagues, the American college system.

Yeah.

You know, it doesn't work like this in Europe.

No.

You, you go through school and if you want to go to university, it's very easy. You go off to university and you study some specialty and you get your degree and then you get a job.

Yeah.

Only here do we have this, like, obsession with these name brands, which really want to just make you a communist and alienate you from your parents. Most of them. And it's just something that's ingrained in the American society. I think it'd be very tough to break us of this.

Yeah.

But having said that, I do wanna make the point, it is absurd to run with the narrative that this kind of thing is rampant on college campuses, Cornell or anyplace else. Like, the leftists now want you to believe that there's a 35% rape rate at Cornell. More than one-third of the student body has been raped or sexually assaulted, which is a lie. If you look at the survey, and I was doing these stories back in 2004 at Fox, if you look at the surveys, they say Have you been raped or sexually assaulted during your time at Cornell? And then you look at the actual fine print and it's like an unwanted touching. Rape or sexually assaulted include an unwanted touching of any kind. Someone groping against your will, someone rubbing against you against your will. Well, hell, that was every night of my life when I was a cocktail waitress at Syracuse my sophomore year. I mean, I never considered myself a victim. It's a crowded bar where everyone's having a good time. It was fine. So it's just absurd. And as Heather MacDonald has been pointing out, in Detroit not so long ago, the entire crime rate, including murders and robberies, was 2.4%.

Exactly.

So, like, you want to tell me that Cornell has got a 35% rape rate? I don't think so. We're just raising a generation of wannabe victims.

Well, it's also our leadership class, including in the media, is so focused on Cornell. Because that's very much the heart of their world. Like, I got into Cornell, I'm now in the Ivy League. And, you know, they got into the ag school or whatever. But people are raped on, like, subway platforms and in parks and in the outer boroughs. And I don't think Letitia James or Kathy Hochul care at all. But at all, right? At all. So, like, I don't think that there's a special prosecutor for the last subway platform rape in the Bronx somehow.

Oh, I mean, talk to some of the lawyers who represented some of Harvey Weinstein's alleged victims about their experience with Letitia James's office and her personally. I know a lot of these lawyers. They have nothing but negative things to say about Chis James. She will only do what she thinks advances her own career, and she doesn't give two damns about any of these alleged victims? Are you going to be a stepping stool toward her race to the governorship or aren't you? Kathy Hochul, she's too dumb to really ascribe bad motives to. I mean, she's just like—

I think that's true.

Let's be honest. Yeah, right. The woman walked around for 3 years with a gold necklace that read Vaxxed Tucker in extra large font. I know, like, like, like she was a member of the Bloods.

Well, she was.

That's right.

No, you're—

we can't—

you're so right. You're so right. I don't— again, I just don't— I— there's— I've never met anybody in 35 years in the news business who can summarize and analyze a news story cold like you can. I just think it's amazing, and I'm grateful you did because now I feel like I actually understood what happened in that story. So thank you very much, Megyn Kelly.

You're welcome. It's great to see you.

Great to see you. Thanks.