Transcript of Ian Carroll on America’s Deadliest Mass Shooting and Unanswered Questions They Don’t Want You to Ask

Ian Carroll, I have wanted to meet you. I'm grateful you're here.

Thank you. Thanks, man.

I just want to understand one story. I want to know what we know about the biggest mass shooting in American history in Las Vegas, 2017. I spent a full year looking into it, got nowhere, other than increasingly skeptical of the story we were told. But I really don't. There's a lot I don't know. Will you lay out what we do know? Yeah.

I mean, first, the most important thing to highlight is that I'd bet that a lot of people, when you started that sentence, don't know what the most deadly mass shooting in American history is. That's their point. Because I think that most Americans have forgotten about the Las Vegas shooting because it just got poofed right out of the news after a week, and they just never brought it up again, basically. Then there was actually this information poured in to try to stop journalists and investigators and regular citizens from uncovering basic truths, from getting basic disclosure.

Can you be specific? What does that mean, disinformation poured in?

I think we'll get there in the story. But before we start the story, it's important to give myself context in that I wasn't there and I wasn't researching at the time. The actual work of what we do know was done by a bunch of citizen journalists, a bunch of really incredible researchers at the time, which I'm going to try to shout out as we go through it because I I didn't do any of the original research. I came in long after the fact and did my research and found all of their work.

You have a talent for synthesizing.

I mean, that's what I try to do is I'm good at getting eyes on stories. A lot of the best researchers and journalists are just good at the information itself, at the journalism. That's exactly right. We need these different people in these different lanes to help each other out and work together in order to get the story done, but then also get it out to as many people as possible. This one is so important, as I think we'll talk through here, not just in that it's the most deadly mass shooting in American history, but in that it has very direct political and geopolitical implications for what's happening today on the world stage, depending what theory you subscribe to about what really happened. But the basics of what happened is we're told that Steven Paddock, this disgruntled 60-something real estate guy, ex-gun guy, thought he was a hotshot but was failing at life. He was slipping in his mental health. He had a gambling problem. All these little explanations they give after the fact. He wound up going to Las Vegas. There's so many places here where I'm going to have to say, First, they told us this, and then they told us this, and then they told us this.

First, they said he checked into the hotel the day before the shooting, but it was later revised because it was obvious that he had checked in five or six days before the shooting on the 25th of September. He checks in, and over a series of days, he lugs up I think, 22 bags of weapons and ammunition to his hotel room, the suite 32135. He had two suites, 32135 and 32136 that we were joining. He rent it alone with no one else on the room, though we later learned that that wasn't true. And he stocks it with all these weapons, which were mostly all AR platforms with bump stocks. Very important that you know they were bump stocks because that's evil and makes no sense. And then there's this country music concert concert on October first, down outside of the Mandalay Bay, across the street in this big parking lot with thousands of attendees. And we'll circle back to this endlessly, I think, as we unpack what really happened and what people really discovered about it. But there's some stuff with the security guard that gets an alert about the doors or about what's going on in the room, and he winds up up there and gets shot at through the doors.

Initially, we were told that that happened after the shooting, then it was revised to before, then it was during the shooting. There's some security guard stuff in the hallway. But what the public found experienced was there at this Jason Aldeen concert, and at 10: 05 in the evening, a couple of distinct pops ring out over the concert that we have on footage. We have footage of all sorts of shit around this story. You can hear the pops, individual pop, pop, pop, pop things. Then about a minute later at 10: 06, automatic gunfire just starts cracking in the night, and people start to run, they start to scatter. Jason Aldeen still doesn't realize what's going on because the concert is super loud, and he's got his monitors going and all this stuff. Even though most of the eyewitnesses that were there claimed that the first shots sounded like they were coming from the stage. They sounded like they were very close, is what witnesses described. They sounded like they were coming at them from right there at the stage. By the second volley, which came a little less than a minute later, Jason Aldeen realizes that he gets pulled off stage and everyone's scattering.

Then over the course of about 9 to 10 minutes, 12 volleys of automatic gunfire ring out in the night, and are captured on body cams, they're captured on cell phone videos. They're captured on various recordings. You can hear them all across the Las Vegas Strip. Then the official story is that Steven Paddock barricaded in his room up on the 32nd floor of the Bay, who he's knocked out a window so he can shoot through the window. He's actually knocked out a window in both of these suites, and he's running back and forth between them and shooting his bolt-action rifle and then shooting his bump-stock ARs and spraying this concert with bullets. He allegedly shot more than a thousand rounds from that room, used multiple ARs, even though one would have done the trick. Then, allegedly, he just got bored or sick it and just committed suicide. With no cops at the door, with no reason to stop, with no real explanation for why he stopped, he just stopped, shot himself in the head with a revolver, and that was the end of the shooting. No other shooting took place. No other gunmen were there. No other things happened that night at all.

That's the official narrative. Just this one guy with no motive, no manifesto, no explanation of why. Just did that and then checked out. In the meantime, the concert's tripping out. There's all sorts of other things that are definitively happening all across the Las Vegas Strip, in the air, at the airport, at the other casinos, which we'll get to. But the police response to the alleged lone gunman is this security guard that had come up and had gotten shot at, he had discovered that the door to that floor from the stairwell was bolted shut. He had gone down, gone up the elevator, and then at that point had gotten shot at through the door. We found out that there was cameras set up outside the room, so someone had visibility outside the room. The cops get up into the stairwell right by this guy's room, and they are within a minute or two of the shooting ending, they're outside the stairwell door that's barricaded, and they're just waiting there. They wind up waiting there, allegedly for SWAT teams to show up, so they can bust through that door. Then over an hour after the shooting has ended, and he's allegedly shot himself, finally, the SWAT, which we'll get to, has busted through this stairwell door, and they're on the floor, and then they reach his hotel room door.

We have one body cam of this that is very suspicious, and he's dead there on the floor, and they secure the room, and it's all over. But immediately, the The public was completely not with that explanation because everyone that had been there had experienced something completely different than that. Everything that was coming out from the LVMPD, Las Vegas Metro Police Department, they Their stories had been strange during the night. Things that had obviously happened, things that were recorded on body cams, things that had been witnessed all across the Las Vegas Strip were completely absent from what they were telling people had happened. Every single person that was there had heard the gunfire that was clearly not the firing of AR platforms. It was clearly some... I'm not the weapons expert on this, but there's lots of them there. It was a country music concert, and the consensus was that it sounded like belt-fed machine guns of some sort. When you watch the video footage, which is available online, and we'll talk about some cool resources online, the video footage very clearly can be heard that this is something else. But you can also hear that there's multiple guns fired at once.

You can hear that some of these machine guns are in different locations while they're simultaneously firing, just from the way they sound. You can hear lots of different stuff going on just in those 12 volleys of automatic gunfire. But just to tease out the audience on how many things we're going to have to talk about to get to the bottom of this, we have, for example, at midnight, more than an hour and a half after this guy has allegedly shot himself in the head. We have at least nine different police body cams that are public on the internet right now that you can go watch, where all nine of them at 11: 59, I think it is, all of them in different locations around the strip record seven to five volleys of automatic gunfire somewhere down by the Bellagio. I say 7: 00 to 5: 00 because some of their body cams capture the later five, and some of them capture an earlier two as well. In between there, you can hear the police dispatch saying, We got reports of shots at Bellagio, shots at Bellagio. Then all throughout the night, there's all sorts of body cam footage talking about, We've got a suspect at Tropicana.

We got a gunman at Tropicana. We've got someone at Bellagio. We got someone in the Mirage. There's basically something is happening at various times throughout the night, generally in a northward pattern at almost every casino on the strip. Some of them are far more corroborated than others. Like the Bellagio, there is dozens and dozens and dozens of 911 calls. There's body cam footage with stuff like I just described. There's stuff happening in the casinos that clearly doesn't line up with one lone gunman in one window that's been dead for an hour, two hours by the time these reports are coming in. Then there's stuff that happens at the airport, and there's lots of stuff that happens at the airport. But the simple tease of that is that we actually have the audio from the control tower, air traffic control tower saying, I think it's about an What would it be? It's not an hour. It's at 10: 35. Paddock allegedly kills himself somewhere around 10: 16 to 10: 18. At 10: 35, air traffic control says, We have an active shooter on the runway. On the runway? On the runway. We have a release- On the airport runway?

On the airport runway. At McCaren, at the main- At McCaren, yeah.

Wow. Although they renamed it, but yeah, at McCaren Airport. The Harry Reid. Yeah, which is right there next to the concert. It's two blocks over.

Yeah, that's an in-town airport, but it's a huge airport.

Huge airport. At the time, there is a police helicopter circling over top, looking at trying to figure out what's going on at the airport because something big happened at the airport. But the footage that we eventually, that journalists got released, feels very doctored because it's pointing at one weird angle and it's spiraling around. So you only get very small glimpses of what's on the runway, but you do see several groups of people walking around on the runway, and it's in infrared. And there's a couple of these groups of people that look they're wearing black things. They have black things, which in infrared is steel, is no heat. So guns, body armor, those sorts of things would show up in black. So there's visual of stuff happening on the runway. There's air traffic control saying, We have an active shooter on the runway. And then one minute later, someone comes onto that radio call and says, I want you to kill the lights on this runway and that runway. Kill the lights? Yeah, turn off the lights. And they turned off the lights at the airport for a certain amount of time. We don't know exactly- And that's recorded.

How long it's recorded. It's on audio.

Why? Christmas Christmas is here. That means you're eating a lot. We are. It's a tough time to get on the scale because the meals keep coming and so does the weight gain. But what if there was a way to eat like you want to eat without getting really fat over Christmas week? This is an ongoing concern in my house. A snack that tastes excellent and is healthy. Well, it exists. It's called masa chips. It's part of a growing movement to revive real food, the kind your grandparents eat before snacks were designed in labs. How do they do it? Well, We'll tell you because it's very simple. Masa chips are made from three ingredients. Only three. Organic corn, sea salt, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow. That's it. This is not some weird Franken cocktail like most big chip brands. Masa chips taste delicious and you feel way better after. You're not bloated, you don't feel mindless. It doesn't take you out of the game for hours. If you want to pick a flavor, we recommend lime. My producer is literally eating a bag right off camera right now. Ready to give it a try? Masachips. Com/tucker.

Use the code Tucker for 25% off your first order, or just click the link in the video description, or scan the QR code. If you don't want to order online, you could also buy masa chips at your local Sprouts Supermarket. Stop by and pick up a bag. They're awesome. If you thought you had a man with a gun somewhere at night, why would you turn off the lights?

Well, the only reason that I would think of, the most obvious reason that think of is because you also are doing things there that will benefit you to have the darkness to get away or to finish what you're doing or something. We're going to come back to all that because there's what we were told happened, and then there's what we have evidence did happen, and then there's theories of how could you possibly explain all of that in a rational way that would actually fit it all together. Because right now, the public has this experience with Charlie Kirk's assassination, unfortunately, where when a crime is committed, obviously, the actual explanation will explain all the facts. Some of them might be weird coincidences, some of them might just be crazy circumstances But the actual explanation of what really did happen really does explain every single fact about a situation. That's just the nature of reality. You know what I mean? When you know the real explanation, everything fits. It It can be bizarre, it can be anomalous sometimes, but it has to be that real explanation will suddenly click into place.

In other words, the facts have to drive the explanation rather than the explanation driving the fact.

Bingo. When it comes to Vegas, there's actually... After Citizens, Journalists, Media pushed so hard, they sued, they went through years of fighting to get the most basic stuff released, like autopsies, body cam footage, audios, police reports and such about what had happened, things that very much should have been public and forthcoming that weren't. They had to sue the LVMPD. They had to sue the coroner personally in order to get the autopsy of Steven Paddock released. I think he eventually wound up paying $32,000 or something like that. After all that stuff got released, we actually have quite a bit, a huge body of evidence. It would take the average person months to acquaint themselves with all of this stuff, which is why I gave that disclaimer at the start that I wasn't there and I wasn't one of the researchers at the start, and I had to try to become acquainted with the story after the fact, which is a monumental task. I'm leaning on the shoulders of all these people that did all this incredible work to try to uncover this and then to theorize about what really happened. There's still a certain you're never going to get back when you look backwards at these kinds of things because so much gets covered up.

That's right. So much requires you to have been there or to have talked to the witnesses, whatever it is. That's correct. Whatever it is. And, surprise, a number of the witnesses that were most vocal about the fact that there was more than one shooter actually died. Strange deaths in the weeks following, like people that were taking to Twitter or Facebook and being very vocal about their testimony that, No, I guarantee you it was more than one shooter. I know it was more than one shooter. Multiple different people that were doing that died in things like car crashes or of weird medical conditions. Actually? Yeah. I don't know the number of exactly how many because those are harder to trace down and confirm. But I know for a fact, for example, there was a couple that died in a car wreck that had been there and had survived. I think it was the husband that had been pretty vocal online about how there was more than one shooter, and they're both in a car wreck and they die. There's another woman that had been extremely extremely vocal and had one of the most viral multiple shooter testimonies that I think that she died of a health thing.

One of them died of a random robbery shooting thing. Those things are harder and harder to confirm because there's not as much reporting about a single random person's death. It's like a nobody, so to speak. By then, the apparent cover-up was in very much full swing. But it's pretty well confirmed that at least a handful of survivors that were vocal about the story being wrong happened to die. Maybe that's just all coincidences, but there's no coincidental explanation for the number of things that don't fit that narrative that night. Now we've covered the official narrative. Lone gunman, no explanation. And that is their official explanation, is that there was no why. They never figured out why. And that it ended by 10: 16 or 10: 18, and that was it. And nothing else is true. So after the fact, I come to this story, trying to learn about it. And I spend a number of days digging through various people's documentaries and various people's YouTube channels, and various people's reporting about it, sifting through all the old material. And I wind up, I stumbled across this website called vegasshootingmapmap. Com. I don't know who made vegasshootingmap.

Com, but whoever they are, they are a hero. Because what they did is they made a website using Google's Map tools to build a archived map that is actually overlaid over Google Maps that has little pins for every single piece of original, documented, not literally every piece, but hundreds and hundreds of 911 calls actually sourced. Click it, and then you're at the 911 call listening to the audio, timestamped for when the first volley is, when the second volley is, when the third volley is, or it's a reported shooting at Tropicana, and you can listen to the audio of this 911 call. It's this invaluable resource of calls and autopsies, the death reports, police body cam footage, cell phone videos. I don't know who made it.

That is an enormous task.

It's unbelievable.

Well, this country's 250th birthday is right around the corner, and our friends at Black Rifle Coffee are celebrating the right way with bold roast made by veterans who love this country and live its values every day of the year. Black Rifle makes coffee for people to get up early and work until late. We drink it late, by the way. Best at night. It tastes great, especially after their atomic llama formula. During this time of year. Cinnamon and brown sugar. It's awesome for winter. Whether you're hosting family, out in the woods, filling stockings for Christmas, this is the coffee that stands for something real, essential, and American. In 2025, Black Rifle supported groups like Folds of Honor, Team Red, White and and organizations that serve veterans and their families. And in 2026, they're going even bigger. We support them. We know them. They've taken a lot of unfair criticism, but they are great and sincere guys. We can vouch for that. Visit blackrifflecauffy. Com/tucker. Use the code tucker for 30% off your purchase or your first coffee club order, or grab Black Rifle at Walmart or your local grocery store. It's everywhere because it's awesome. Black Rifle coffee, veteran-founded, American-roasted.

This is America's coffee.

Yeah, the amount of effort that went into making it, it might have been multiple people. I've asked around a little bit, and I've never gotten an answer as to who made it.

Can you say the name of the site again in case people were interested?

Vegasshootingmapmap. Com. Vegas shooting map. Now, whenever I type V-E-G into my web browser, it suggests Vegas shooting map because I've been there so many times. For me, when I stumbled across that, that's a gold mine. Because any story that's been covered up, any story that you suspect foul play in the reporting or in the mainstream narrative, the first thing you have to do is hone in on what are the documented primary source facts that we can read and understand and see and hear. Then I just started sifting through and I started watching body camps, and I started listening to 911 calls, and I started re-piecing it together for myself because I found there's a number of really great reporters that I'll credit throughout here, like John Cohen and Jason Goodman and Mindy Robinson and yourself. You did some on it, too. Alex Jones did some on it.

I got nothing, but it didn't smell right.

Well, you at least spoke You at least were someone that was in that mainstream media space that was not buying it because it was just... It stank. There's all these people that have made media that synthesizes it and made media that speculates and takes it much, much further, especially into the Saudi angle that we'll talk about. But for me, I was like, I need to start with understanding the information and see if I can arrive at a similar factual understanding of when I look at the original evidence without these narratives on it, do I arrive at a similar conclusion version. Immediately, it only takes you five clicks on random pieces of evidence on that map to realize that it's clearly not a lone gunman in the Mandalay Bay. Because how would I have this massive cluster of 911 calls coming from the Bellagio, which is I don't know, like half a mile to a mile up the Strip. It's like a giant block and a half. If you've ever been to Vegas, Vegas is a crazy place of gigantic monolithic buildings of sin that it stretches on and on and on. The Bellagio way up on the northern end of the Strip, and the Mandalay Bay is the Southernmost building.

Most of these calls come in an hour and more after Paddock has allegedly killed himself. We're talking people that work there. We're talking security guards. We're talking victims, people alleging that they've seen the shooter, describing the shooter, and it happens in multiple waves. Then a lot of them are clustered around, for example, those nine body cams that capture audio of multiple bursts of automatic fire while we're getting 911 One calls from the Bellagio saying that there's active shooters at the Bellagio, while the police dispatcher is saying, We've got a shooter at the Bellagio. When you dig into this primary source evidence, you very quickly realize that this is not just Paddock, it's not a lone gunman. Once I familiarize myself with that, then I expanded out to like, Okay, so then what did the people that did all this work? What did they conclude? What was their understanding of this evidence, and where did they take a possible explanation? That's where it gets It's really interesting, and we don't know for sure, but I think there's actually a pretty solid lead. Whatever it is, it's still at play in the modern information space. Because anytime you have one of these shootings or false flag events or anything that gets covered up on this scale, if you buy the mainstream narrative, all bets are off.

There's no facts there. There's no understanding of reality there. If you buy the mainstream narrative about 9/11, you have no level of understanding of even how many buildings fell or why they fell, let alone who could have brought these towers down the way they came down, who could have guarded these hijackers the way that they were guarded all the way there, funded it, et cetera. But once you realize that the mainstream narrative on one of these events is for sure not the whole story, then you actually open up to a whole world of... Almost any explanation is possible. If it's a shooting and you don't even know who perpetrated it, you don't even know how many shooters there were, you don't even really know what guns were used, and there's no forthcoming information from the authorities, well, then journalists have a monumental task ahead of them to, A, uncover the evidence, and B, try to fit any possible motive and perpetrator to the crime. I think that's the most interesting question in the Las Vegas one in my mind, is who has the motive to do such a horrible thing?

It depends what the goal was.

Exactly. Why are we doing this? Because if it's loan a gunman Paddock, I mean, A, he can't do the things that we actually have evidence happened. But even if it's just a lone gunman, why are you shooting down into a crowd of people? Even a crazed shooter has a motive, and you can trace that through their life. But when you realize that, well, no, that's not all that happened. There was spraying of bullets down into this crowd. But then there were shootings happening at all these other hotels, at least at some of them. Even if some of these reports are fake, they can't all be fake. Then there's things happening at the airport that are strange, that there's some shooting happening at the airport. It's like, is this a gang war between the Italian mob and the Jewish mob? Is this a CIA operation that went wrong? Is it a Jason Bourne movie that then they're covering up the tracks of Jason Bourne's killing spree? Is this a Mossad operation? Any of those things would need to fit the facts. You can try to... In lieu of enough facts, you can always try to You can try to fit a perpetrator to the facts and invent explanations that will work.

But when the crime, for me, what kept sticking in my mind is how heinous the crime against these festival goers was. It just did not seem to match the other stuff that was happening that night. Because we don't have random women shot in the face in the Tropicana and in New York, New York, and in the Bellagio. At least, we don't know of that. If that happened, it was all covered up. There was shooting reported in all those places, all these other hotels, all down the strip at the airport and everything. There are victims that are dead in other places. Mostly, there's over near the airport and a few hotels in the direction of the airport, coupled down by the Tropicana. Who are dead? Yeah. You have to sift through it really carefully because some of them, I think, were confirmed to be festival goers that were hit and injured and escaping and then died of their injuries further out. They can be represented as having died over there when technically they were shot at the festival, but not all of them. Even at the festival, there's most Some of the deaths happened right in the middle of the festival grounds, but there's a cluster of about six bodies that died at the far north-eastern side of the festival grounds, so the opposite side of the Mandalay Bay, where the shooter allegedly was.

They were across a barrier. They were on the other side of a barrier that obscured line of sight. They were not visible to the Mandalay Bay. There's a cluster of four of them along a fence line there, and then two in a parking lot, like right next door, that died right there. That very much looked like they were shot right there. Not that they escaped there.

Would that be for He was shooting 223, primarily, but also 308.

Yeah, they had multiple calibers in the room.

Would that be out of range for the gun?

Hey, I'm not the gun guy, but it certainly is... There's no world where that's the shots that were taken. Some of the rifles he allegedly shot with didn't even have scopes on them. He had rifles that did have scopes, but he also had rifles that didn't have scopes. Then he had rifles that had bump stocks, and he had some rifles that didn't have bump stocks. They alleged, the official story is that he switched back and forth between different rifles. Some of them he reloaded, and some of them he didn't. Some of them had scopes, and some of them didn't. He fired some of the ones that didn't have scopes at this massive range down into this crowd. We have a video from a police body cam right after the shooting, walking through this crowd with all this tragedy around them. He's talking to someone, whether it's a medic or... I'm not sure exactly who he's talking to, but they're commenting back and forth in a conversation about how many direct center headshots there are, how many people seem to have been executed. The people in the crowd, almost all of them believe that there were shooters on the ground, that there were shooters coming into the event venue from the entrances and shooting into the crowd from the ground.

Then journalists picked up on this and started researching it. I believe John Cohen did a lot of work on getting the autopsy data actually released, and then analyzing and realizing that a bunch of these people were shot at parallel to ground traject, meaning that the shooter would have to be on the ground, because if you're up in a hotel, in a hotel window at the 32nd floor, the bullets will hit the ground. They'll be coming down. There are a lot of people that were shot at that angle, and we'll talk about helicopters in a second. But there are a number of people that were shot parallel to the ground. It's like, were they all bullets that ricocheted off the ground and then went off and hit someone at a near parallel to ground angle? I doubt it. Then there was autopsies found where people were shot directly down from above, straight down through them. As researchers started to pull on these various threads- Through the top of the head. From the air above them. It didn't take until those autopsies came out. It was the very first day that people were already alleging that they believe there was helicopters shooting at them.

There's helicopters in the videos. You can see the helicopters in the videos. The witnesses talk about helicopters having been there in the air. A lot of them say that they suspect that the helicopters were shooting, that they felt like the helicopters were shooting at them. But then when you read the official story, the police reports, no mention of helicopters at all. None of that at all. It's just the lone gunman. Then when you look at the flight radar data from that night, there are a lot of suspicious helicopters that take off and land from and at the two helicopter operators in the airport there, Sundance and... I'm blanking on the one, Maverick. Sundance and Maverick. But there's also helicopters. John Cullen. Do you know who John Cullen is? John Cullen. Yeah, we're going to reference John Cullen's work a lot tonight because he's this deeply autistic type of researcher that just has a YouTube channel that very few people have ever heard of. But he's the sheriff with the glasses. He's a very funny guy. But he just went after this story for years and years. He's the type of detail-oriented person that would get the baseline.

I'll watch every Sunday's flight patterns for six weeks so I can get the baseline. Then I'll track every single flight that went out this night so that I can understand what's in the air. Then I'll look at every single footage and oriented on the map and get the lay with the time. Then I'll know that I know if I'm seeing a flight that's on the flight patterns or if it's this thing in the air that we're seeing in this footage is not documented. He went through all this work extensively to very thoroughly prove that there are many birds in the air that night that are not on the flight radar at all, and they seem to have flashing coming from them. They very much seem to be involved in what's going on. There's a lot of videos that are on that map I was referring to, that as you watch, some of them are body cam and some of them are cell phone videos. You can see these helicopters flying around behind the Mandalay Bay and back around and around behind the Mandalay Bay and back around. You can see little flashes coming, peppering the night sky from in between the two hotels that are there, clearly out in the sky, as though there was gunfire coming from an airborne craft of some sort.

That got a lot of people thinking of who would that be and how would that happen? How would you get helicopters into one of the most busy Metropolitan air spaces in the world? That's like, this is an extremely surveilled place. I mean, not to mention the surveillance that we should have of all these shooters in all these hotels, right?

Well, some Americans have become cut off from the things that once kept us grounded. Our land, the skills that tied our families to nature.

Told you he's getting his next spot.

And to remind us, we made a new six-part series, American Game: tales from the Wild. We follow the sportsmen who are keeping these ancient traditions alive. We follow a it may have to seal into the mountains of Texas. Donald Trump Jr. Crossed the ridges of Lanai.

That's what we call from going from zero to hero.

And wander with me through the quiet woods of Maine. I have just three dog commands. And then as I direct the dogs. Find the bird. Find the bird. And then dead bird, obviously, which I don't use as much as I'd like to. We cast for Steelhead on the Deschutes River in Oregon. That's the first one I've caught in a while. Tracked mule deer in the Utah high country. Spearfish in the waters off Montauk chasing striped bass and bluefin tuna. See you on the other side. It's called American Game: tales from the Wild Outdoor Series. Watch it at tuckercarlson. Com. Las Vegas leads the world for CCT TV, doesn't it? Yeah.

And so none of that ever came out. None of it ever came out. Here's the thing, which you know more about than me. Mgm owns 80% of the strip or whatever. I'm exaggerating, I think, but MGM owns a huge number of these casinos that are not named MGM. There is footage of this occurring in one instance, but there's testimony of it happening left and right of a hotel employee that was working that night that was told that was basically forced to sign an NDA that says, You're not allowed to talk about what happened last night. Nothing happened last night. Your lips are sealed. It very much was a blanket gag order on all employees of these hotels. None of the hotels gave out any footage. They all just locked everything down. They even fought the police on the story to make the story become something that would not make them look bad. An example of that is this security guy that I was saying got shot at that we're going to come back to. Yes. I remember this. Jesús Campos, Jose Campos?

Yes, Jose Campos.

Jose Campos. The first version of his story was that he came up, the door was bolted. He went down, he came up the elevator, and then it was after the shooting had ended, he gets shot at through this door and then escapes. Then that didn't really square for whatever reason, and the police changed the story to like, Oh, no, actually, that was three minutes before the shooting started that he got shot at through the door. That must have been why Steven Paddock went crazy all at once is because he realized he was running out of time. Yes. They're like, That's our narrative. That's going to work. But then MGM was like, Well, F you, because that makes us look like idiots. Because then what are we What are we doing here? Then we would have had advanced notice. If our security guy got shot at three minutes before the shooting started, we didn't have any response. So that's not going to work. And so MGM actually got mad at the police, and the police changed their story again to be, No, actually, Jose Campos got shot at about 40 seconds after the shooting started during the shooting volleys.

That's the third and final version of the official story of Jose Campos. And Jose Campos put out a statement that was something like, I do not contest that statement. That was his official statement, very much canned, and then just like, poof, he was gone. Obviously- Wait, didn't he wind up in Mexico? Yeah, there was a thing where he was going to test- I think he drove his car to Mexico. Yeah. I think it was that he was going to do a bunch of news stories, and he was lined up for a bunch of news hits, and then he just like, actually, he went to Mexico, who knows? But then he got brought back and did Ellen. That's what it was, right? Yes. He got brought back to do Ellen. Ellen sponsored by the casinos because he had all the slot machines. The ultimate deep stater, Allan. He did one Allan interview where Allan fed him all of his lines, and then he disappeared, and that became the narrative for him.

Has he ever emerged to tell a story?

Not that I know of. To be fair, I haven't done enough digging into his story yet. To be fair, I feel like I could spend another year digging into this, and I still would only be approaching the expertise that some of these other guys have about it because they did devote years and years to this. There's just so much to learn and to look at because it's such a crazy event with so many pieces of evidence. Campos is this one, really interesting one, that exposes a lot of elements of what was going on here in that you had the hotel's interests in their reputation, their money, whatever was going on. You have the way that hotel employees were a part of this thing but then had to represent after the thing. You have the police narrative involved in his story. You have a really important detail just in that, A, let's think it through. If the sounds that we all hear in those videos, this is happening inside of that hotel room, and you can hear it all across the Las Vegas Strip, it's like, these are deafening sounds, obviously. If Jose is in the hallway right outside of that door, you damn well better believe he remembers if that was happening when he got shot at.

Someone opens up with automatic weapons.

It resonates. Yeah. It's not like Campos doesn't remember. He thought there were It's not like he changed his story because he didn't know if there was this cacophony of automatic gunfire happening across the door. Obviously, that is a shifting narrative to meet various needs of whatever the narrative builders need. But the nature of him getting shot through that door is interesting. Once you start to put away the mainstream narrative and just look at all the information as it is and try to figure out what the hell was this and what went on here, and we'll have to rewind at the beginning to unpack that because there's a lot of facts that we haven't even talked about yet that become very important. But trying to figure out what happened with him and why he got shot through the door at that moment, and maybe even when he did get shot through the door, that's interesting because it involves the fact that there was cameras rigged up outside the door, facing into the hallway to surveil the hallway to protect whatever was happening inside the room. They weren't recording video, but they were live. You know what I mean?

So whoever was watching their feeds could see the other side, could see the hallway. As a security guard approaches this door whenever he approached it, I mean, based upon the fact that the first testimony was that it was not when gunfire was happening actively, I would assume that he approached the door when there was no automatic gunfire happening actively. But I don't know. But whoever's in the room doing whatever they're doing, and it was guaranteed it was definitely more than one person, and we can talk about the door locks in a minute, they see a security guard on these cameras, and their response is to shoot a round fire through the doorway at him to get him to go away or to kill him, whatever. That's really weird. That's really interesting because obviously it implies that whatever's happening in the room, you need him to not come in. You need him to not knock. Obviously, there's something happening in the room that needs to be finished before the heat comes. But we have pretty strong evidence at this point that Paddock was dead by then. Paddock was not a part of this. Whatever was happening in the room, it's like, what was happening in the room?

What were you doing that needed to be finished before the heat came to that room? Because they had taken the time to put this tiny little L bracket, this little metal L bracket on the stairwell door, so people couldn't come up the stairs onto the floor right next to their room. But it was like a little Home Depot thing. It was not the thing you need the SWAT team to bust down. They'd rigged up these cameras. Then it's like, okay, your brain, if you don't take the mainstream narrative at all, it's like, what is this? Is this a heist? Is this a casino heist or something? Which is not what I think it was. But it's just if you start to ask, what could that be that's happening in that room? Is it like Ocean's Eleven and they need to protect part of their heist or something until they get away with the jewels? It's like maybe that starts to explain a piece of this. But that's what I mean by when you look at the original evidence and you try to square it with an explanation that fits it all, it starts to get pretty fascinating and pretty weird.

In order to do that, we have to rewind past Campos back to the start because we know for a fact that Paddock wasn't alone in that room, and we know for almost complete certain fact that he was dead before any of this even happened. Any of the shooting happened. Yeah, before any of the shooting happened. And just to- We do? Wet our whistle on that. We do? Yeah. We don't know it for fact, fact, fact. But the actual official photo of Paddock dead in the room, overhead, looking down at him with the blood stains. There's very clearly two blood stains. It's very clearly a dry blood stain that's been dried into the carpet that is one color, and then a fresh glistening red blood stain that is much smaller and fresher and redder over top of it. And there's blood on his chest in that photo for some reason. Although if you commit suicide, shoot yourself in the head, there's no reason why you would have a giant singular blood stain on your chest. No. Really quickly, while we're in this room here at that moment, let's unpack some of the other things that very much just debunk this regular narrative that are hard evidence that you can view for yourself.

The SWAT team that they were waiting for to breach his room, they never came. Although Las Vegas has one of the largest SWAT teams in America, one of the largest SWAT teams in the world, they never came. The actual team that breached his room, we have one body cam that shows it, and they put out a report saying who was in the breaching party. It was one SWAT officer. I think it was two canine officers whose dogs they left back in the cars, and then a bunch of other police officers that just hodgepodgeed in there. And that becomes very important later when you start to ask where the fuck were the SWAT officers, what were the SWAT doing? Because they were doing something. But the story is that they're waiting for the SWAT team. And the mainstream media at first tried to run with this crazy... Cnn actually has a clip that I can give to you where the next day or two days later, CNN tells a fantasy about how the SWAT team busted down the door, and Paddock tried to fight his way through them, and they had a gun battle, and Paddock shot one of the SWAT guys in the leg.

What? And he got out into the hall before Are they neutralized them. Yeah, they just literally made up fantasy on CNN Live. I have the recording. I'll give it to you. Obviously, none of that happened at all. We know now from eventual release of files, documents, and a body cam that it was only one SWAT guy and all these other police officers. We have this body cam from Officer Bitzke that they had to fight to get released. We only have one because they told everyone to turn their body cams off. That happened multiple times throughout the night. I've got the clips, then I can share them with you. They are on that map that I was telling people about so other people can go and find them for themselves, too, where a bunch of officers are around, about to do something. There's a couple of instances throughout the night where this happens, where then they are like, All right, body cams off, body cams off, body cams off, and they're all going around and turning off their body cams. For whatever reason, I'm not sure if we ever found out why, it's possible we did, Bitzko didn't turn his off.

Officer Bitzko's body cam, he's one of the canine officers, that does exist. We do have body cam footage of the breach. They breached the door, and one of them accidentally shoots three rounds. They're just tripping out. Even though the official story is like Paddock wasn't alive. He was already dead on the ground. He had been dead there for an hour. There's no reason to shoot his rifle, but they were just hyped up, I guess. They breached the door. Three rounds go off really fast, which is a nothing. Then they enter the room. When they enter the room, they're looking for the window where this guy shot out of. You can watch it on the body cam. They go to the windows and they pull the curtains back and they're like, No, I have no broken window. No, it's not broken. No, no window. They pull the other curtains back and they're looking. They all are like, There's no broken window. There's no window. They're standing, right? We have crime scene photos showing the floor with the hammer that he allegedly used to break this window open because Las Vegas has crazy glass that you can't just break.

He allegedly brought this special hammer that'll break that glass. We have a photo of that hammer with broken glass all over the floor with just shell casings, shell casings, shell casings, because there's a thousand fucking shell casings in this room at this point, plus 4,000 unspent rounds that he just got bored and didn't want to shoot and just checked out. In the photo, we see the ground next to the curtain of the window with the hammer, with all this broken glass and all these shell casings. But in the body cam footage of them going into his room, when that photo, it should already be exactly like the photo shows us, They can't find the window, and they're not stepping on any broken glass or any shell casings at all. They're looking for it, they can't find it. There's six officers looking for this window, they can't find it.

How long did it take for that body cam footage to come out after the shooting?

I don't know exactly, but I believe it was months and months and months. It might have been a year or more.

I think that's right.

Because it was never supposed to come out. It was never even supposed to exist.

But all coverage, as you said at the very outset, all coverage of the shooting had just died and never spoken.

Yeah, it lasted four or five days. You can see graphs. People have charted the number of stories about it, and it's just like everyone's talking about it for two days and then just gone, completely gone. Then YouTube started banning accounts for talking about it. Come on. All the different social media agencies started banning accounts for it. I have screenshots of things that are... On what grounds? Because, well, the grounds was spreading dangerous conspiracy theories and misinformation, but there had happened to have been a active shooter drill that was done in the area the week before or something like that, the day before. I think it was the day before. They've been recruiting crisis actors for this active shooter drill that was being run in the area, which if you learn enough about these kinds of events, you realize that drillss are a huge red flag. But I believe what was done is that then they accused these conspiracy theorists of basically doing the Sandy Hook thing, and they strawmanned the journalism that was happening to say, You're claiming that no one died, and that's so evil because you're saying that they're all crisis actors, and so we're going to ban you.

That's not what anyone was saying. No one was saying that no one died. No one was saying that it was all crisis actors. But they finagled the one thing into the other thing into the other thing to say, Well, there was an active shooter drill, so it was all legit, and you're all saying it was fake, which they weren't. And so you're banned. And so a bunch of channels got taken down. A bunch of journalists got banned off of platforms, and they did their best to shut it all down. But people didn't stop. People just kept digging and digging.

That is crazy. Yeah.

So they breached. They can't find the window. About a minute later, they breached the other room. And this is another impossibility with the official story. Paddock rents these two suites. One is like the master suite because those towers, they're like these three-pronged towers, and you can rent this suite that's at the end of the tower where you have the 180-degrees windows of the whole of the tower, and he rents the one facing out towards this event. But he also rent it. Well, it's not exactly facing towards, it's next to. Then he also rented the room right next door, and they're adjoining. There's a door that connects the two. The official story is that the windows in both rooms were broken out and that he was shooting through the one room with his bolt-action rifle to try to blow up the fuel tanks over at the airport, and he failed to do so. But he was in the other room shooting his bolt-action rifle. Then he was running back to the other room with his ARs and rapid fire bump-stocking with his bump-stock that never jammed. That's the official story. But then the police get in there and the side room is bolted from the other side, and he's the only one that's there.

There's no one else in the rooms, apparently. The way they say that is because his room was bolted from the inside, the side room, but the side room was also bolted, and they had to breach it with explosive breaching charges. You can see on camera.

So he was magic is what you're saying?

He was magic, right? Because you can't bolt your side room from the other side while you're in a mass shooting spree and then wind up in your room and shoot yourself in the head. You can't do it. There's all these little things that- Physics intervenes. Exactly. That physics and just reality intervenes once the evidence started to come out. They've never really acknowledged any of that. That's all just- They've never acknowledged it.

No.

I mean, how could you? There's no acknowledging to be done. By the way, by then, Lombardo was busy being chief of police in La Jaina, if I'm not mistaken.

You're not mistaken.

He was at his next important job.

Where is he now?

I don't know. That's a good question. Someone should track him down and maybe move far away from him. That's the room. Just the room, just the footage of that, just that is enough to say it's all horse shit. You have to go back to square one and start over with what actually did happen.

No one who put out that story, no official in charge, either Clark County Sheriff's, LVMPD, FBI, no one has ever explained how Steven Paddock could have locked himself out- To my knowledge. Of his adjoining suite.

But they also don't explain how the locks appear to have been tampered with. There's a a whole bunch of weird locks. I forget his name. I have him sourced in my notes. He got the door logs from the hotel. I don't know if he had a source at the hotel or something, but he got the official because Las Vegas is prevails everything. They have logs of the locks of every single room, of when it's closed, when it's open, whether it was open from the inside or the outside, the deadbolt status. They have the time recorded and everything. There's a shot by a witness earlier in the day, at like 3: 00 in the afternoon, 3: 30 in the afternoon, which is maybe related, but it's a different story. But then throughout the day there, in the afternoon, the deadbolt start doing really weird things where it's like, open, close, open, close, open, close. Then at one point, what does it do? The door is opened from the inside, logged, and then the next log is deadbolt, unlocked. Meaning that after After some weird deadbolt stuff has been happening, then at a certain point, it displays something that's physically impossible, which is that the door was opened before it was unlocked, and then it was unlocked, which would imply, based on, this is what other researchers gathered at the time, and I would agree, based on what I've seen of the evidence that they pulled out, is that that means that you have just hacked the key card system so that you can maybe remotely be unlocking and locking these doors, or you have some altered access to these rooms.

That would start to explain how the locks could be locked from the inside with no one in there. Because if you throw away the garbage Steven Paddock story, you still have to explain how you wound up with two suites with a dead man inside with the bolts locked from the inside and no broken windows.

On either side?

Yeah, on either side. Well, actually, that's a I believe we aren't entirely clear because we have some helicopter footage, we have some body cam footage, and we have this bullshit narrative. I believe that the window in the other suite was broken out. I think that we have that on the helicopter footage, and I think you can see it. It's a little hard to make it out and some of the photos taken from the ground that night, but there are some HD photos where you can make out that it looks like there is a broken window in the other room. But it's Paddock's room where the majority of the gunfire allegedly came from. That's where you see this police entrance where they can't find the window that's broken out and all that.

I guess the picture that emerges is one in which the facts not only don't support the narrative, the story, but they're completely at odds. It's not a close call. It's not like, Oh, did I see someone in the grass? I'm not sure.

Let's look at the- It's not like Butler where you have to get 10 miles to the report and to be like, Wait, what is with these cell phones?

This is just transparently fraudulent.

Yeah, right in the in the original video evidence, you can see the helicopters in the original footage that people put out from their cell phones. You can hear in the original evidence that was all over the internet that night, you can just hear the gun fire and know that it's not ARs with bump stocks. It's just not. Then you can obviously hear all the testimony from all the people of all of these other things that happened that night that are complete lies. They're all made up. It's just people hearing echoes two hours later.

Why wouldn't... This is why I went out to Las Vegas twice in 2017, but then just got caught up in life.

It's always more stories.

Yeah, short attention span. I'm not making excuses, but I didn't realize that the corpus of counter evidence was so enormous. It certainly merits an FBI investigation.

It certainly does. But here's the thing is, I think they know everything that happened.

But was there ever an official FBI investigation?

Well, yeah. It depends on how you define it. The FBI was involved in the original investigation, and I believe that the FBI did rule on a certain element of this. Then the LVMPD put out their own report as well, and they put out a behavioral analysis of Paddock a year later or something like that.

I remember his... Well, two things, but the FBI signed off on the totally absurd official conclusion. They did.

I believe so. A, B, his brother, I remember, got busted for the Kitty Porn. Yeah, I don't actually know much about that.

I don't either, but I just, having lived in DC my whole life, I associate- It was a while after the fact, right? Yeah. It's like a joke in Washington, the kiddieporn. I mean, Kitty Porn is disgusting, and I couldn't be more opposed to it. I hate pornography in general. But Kitty Porn specifically has a reputation in DC, not among ignorant people, but among people who pay attention as the hallmark of a manufacturer's story. Like, Oh, he got arrested for kiddie porn. He can't talk or whatever. As soon as I heard that, I was like…

George Zinn at Charlie Kire, assassination. Very much like George Zinn.

People are laughing about that. I know. Oh, of course. The guy's busted for kiddie porn. Of course.

Shut him up. Get him away from the stuff.

Look, I have no specific evidence about George Zinn or about Steven Paddock's brother, but that is a very well-known... It's a joke. It's a cliché.

And especially when it's just so coincidental. That it's like, yeah, there are sickos out there, but is it Is it always that the brother or associated the witness, are they always the ones? Are they the sickos?

They're always in the kiddie porn, and you can't talk to them.

You bring us back to an interesting place here where once you throw the narrative out, you're like, All right, where do you even start with this. For me, where you start is Steven Paddock. It's like, Who is this guy? Who is he really? I need to do even more in this. Back when I got into this story, there was just a million directions, and I didn't go far down him. I was doing that again more recently a little bit because who is Steven Paddock? Why the fuck would he even have been there? Because it is factual that he did have all these guns in the room. It is factual that he did rent the room, and he was there. The picture emerges a little more when you look into his backstory, which is the basics, is that he was 60-ish years old at this point. Back in the '80s, into the late '80s, he had worked at a defense contractor that was a predecessor to, I believe it was Lockheed Martin. It's not like he was some commando shooting guns, as far as I'm aware. I think he was in some office element of this defense contractor after.

Then he... I forget if he hopped directly into real estate. I think he had one intermediary where he was doing, not sales, but he was still adjacent to the defense industry, of the '80s. Then he got into real estate, and then allegedly, he developed a gambling problem. He had a networth of several million dollars, allegedly, but then he allegedly gambled it down over time. There was a lot of dispute over whether he was making lots of money gambling or not. I remember that. Yeah, right? But that little detail about him having worked in the defense industry in the past and then going into the nondescript real estate, that's It's not suspicious on its face. Lots of people change careers over time. But it is a little interesting that a guy that used to work, and I don't have any proof of what I'm about to say. This is just conjecture based upon that. But it's interesting that a guy that used to work in the defense contracting industry back in his prime years, in his 30s, then he goes into a nondescript industry where your income can be fluid and things, you can be traveling, you can be in property, all these things.

Then he winds up with what It looks like an awful lot like a deep statey an arms deal thing, an arms deal that's involved in this absolute mass shooting. That does give me pause and question of, was he a private citizen that was stock? Because we'll get into the evidence that he thought he was doing an arm sale in a little bit. But I believe that he thought he was going to sell those guns. I think that's why he had them all there. That comes down to the three women that were on the room with him. But the moment that you realize that you're being lied to about him being the shooter, you need an explanation for why the hell is he there with all these fucking guns? Because I've been to Vegas, and I didn't bring a whole arsenal of weapons with me and a whole arsenal of loaded magazines as well.

Right. I mean, you don't bring six rifles to go deer hunting. How many rifles did he have?

I believe it was 25. Well, it was 25 weapons in the room, I believe, was the final count. Might have been 24 in the room. He had one revolver and one bolt-action rifle, and then all the rest were AR platforms. Then he also had a whole bunch of weapons at his other two houses as well. He had 25 other guns at his other houses, and he just bought a bunch for this.

And he was knowledgeable about guns. I remember that.

Yeah, exactly.

But who were the three women and why do we think he was planning to sell them?

Well, at first, they didn't exist. But then investigative journalists, Doug and Doug and Doug, and they found out that there were three other women on the hotel reservation, officially. Their names were on the hotel reservation. The hotel knew they were there. I believe that they were checked into the side suite, basically, is my assumption. I don't know if that was proven or not, but the side suite was booked with Steven Paddock's girlfriend's credit card, Mary Lou Danley. These three women, I have their names written down. We know their first names because their first names were said, I believe it was on one of the police body cameras that was eventually released during the night, but we don't know their last names. Witnesses described having allegedly seen them gambling that day or the day before with women that looked to be of Hispanic descent or Central-South American descent. Their names match. Maybe they were some Latina women. He had tannerite in his car is a key piece of this. He had 50 pounds of Tannarite in car, which is usually used when you want to make things go boom, not like, I'm going to blow up a building, but like, We're going to go shoot in the desert and have a great time.

Fifty pounds is a lot of tannerite.

It's a lot of Tannarite.

Tannarite is- But he also had a lot of guns. Ammonium nitrate It's a gun, right? Yeah. You can buy it in gun stores, and it detonates not with fire, but with velocity, with force. So you hit it with a rifle round and it explodes, and it's powerful. Fifty pounds is enough take your house out.

We don't really know why he had that or what he was doing with it. But my understanding is that tannerite can be used for lots of things, but it is often used to stage a fun gun shooting moment.

I've never seen it used for anything other than that. It's dangerous, I mean, for sure. I've had some problems with it. It's definitely powerful.

The tannerite, a lot of people speculated, and I tend to defer to their speculation about it because I have never shot Tana Wright. I don't know about it. People speculated that given these multiple points of information, is that maybe one line of reasoning would be that he thought he was selling a bunch of weapons to someone rich. This is not something that's fact-based, we know for sure. But we do know that three women, first name only, that we're not supposed to talk about, were registered to this room as well. And We do know that he had the room full of guns, and we do know that he didn't do the shooting. At least I feel pretty confident that I know that. Then it's like, well, why the hell would you have a room full of guns? It is not uncommon to sell guns in Las Vegas. I mean, go to Shot Show. One possible explanation that might start to put some of those pieces into place is maybe he met some beautiful girls that knew a guy, something along those lines, that was like, Hey, I know this really rich guy that wants to buy some guns, and you know guns, right?

Maybe he got honeypotted. Maybe it was some operation targeting him to recruit him for this thing. Because you don't have to just explain it from Steven Paddock's brain of why is this maybe arm sale happening, but you have to explain it from the big picture explanation of why did whatever organization orchestrated all of this, why did they get Steven Paddock into that room to do that thing? I leaned towards, speculatively, that he was probably selected as a patsy for being some vulnerable, unimportant guy that was down on his luck a little bit maybe and wanted to make some money selling guns. Maybe he was more involved. Maybe he had some intelligence connections. I don't know. But I suspect that he was basically recruited by some hot girls to sell some guns to someone rich or something along those general lines. And so he's bringing all these guns to Vegas, or he's stock in his room with all these guns to go out and shoot in the desert the next day, maybe. He didn't bring the Tannarite up to his room. He left the Tannaride in the car. But If you went to Vegas, you probably wouldn't leave an arsenal of guns in your car.

No. You would want those secured in your room. And he has all these magazines loaded. All these magazines are loaded. And that would make sense if he's trying to do a mass shooting. But the moment that you realize that the evidence just does not support him doing the mass shooting, then it's like, well, why are the magazines all loaded? Why is this arsenal here ready like this? And if you were going to go shoot in the desert, that would be a thing you would do. You would load a bunch of magazines. We don't know exactly why those pieces fit together, but that's one of the most common theories, is that these three women that were on the room with him, in the side suite, probably, that they Probably had some middleman connection because how do women usually get used to it?

Do we see any motive? I mean, did the authorities ever give us a hint of a motive? Because to murder strangers- No, they objectively said, We have no idea what the motive was.

They said that out loud. Yeah, exactly. Totally. You can watch our favorite sheriff. He has a couple of different versions of the quote of, We figured out the what, the when, the where, the who. The one thing we don't know is the why.

But the why is the one thing that matters. Exactly. That's so often a theme that runs through these things. When there is a clearly articulated motive as in a manifesto, sometimes it's suppressed. Osama bin Laden's manifesto was suppressed. It's still being. It's still being suppressed.

Even though it went viral on TikTok recently.

Right. I do think it's essential to know he used a weapon. Of course he did. He killed people. I know. But why? I've got a million weapons. I would never kill anybody. What's the difference between me and him? That's the thing you need to know.

You bring up Osama bin a lot, and right as it's a good time to start talking about the Saudi angle on this thing, which is super interesting. Because you're right, the why for Steven Paddock is nonexistent, and that's the official narrative, is that there's no idea why.

Can I just give the context to the political context? This is less than a year after Trump's election. This is a Jason Aldeen concert. These are Trump voters. Jason Aldean is not a political activist, but he's open about his politics and they're Trump-aligned. He's also a great guy, I will say. These are Trump voters who get killed. At the time, less than year after Trump's election, all anyone's talking about is Trump. People are extremely exercised about it. It's hard to ignore that.

I think it's impossible to ignore it. But Here's where we get into these, there's different theories, and they all hold certain amounts of weight and merit, but most of them have a hole in that they explain this piece, but none of that pieces. They explain this thing, but not that. One possible narrative is it's like a government false flag to get gun control. It's just like, do a mass shooting, construct a mass shooting incident, and then more gun control. And there's a similar compelling concept of more mass surveillance. Vegas is a really compelling place to put experimental mass surveillance technology because you get the whole world comes to Vegas, you get all sorts of different genetic compositions of people that flood in, and it's all private property where you can do your thing. Two parallel story lines of a false flag to bring in more of the gun control or more of the surveillance or both. That would be a reasonable- Can I just ask you a part for a second?

I thought about this at the time, trying to think through what is this. The gun control is almost always the first thing Democrats call for. When there's a mass shooting, they leverage the death of other people for a policy aim. Of course, always famously, Sandy Hook and the rest, they didn't do it that much after this.

No, they shut the hell up real fast.

Exactly. I noticed that at the time.

Real fast. They did try to bring in more mass surveillance technology in Las Vegas. They brought in more body scanners and stuff. They tried to do this big new techno thing in Vegas. I didn't even know that. But it basically failed because no one's going to walk through the airport scanner. They actually installed some of these Lido scanners in Vegas the following years. But no one's going to walk through that every time they're trying to get into their hotel or go to the casino floor and all this shit. It's like, that's just not good for business. So ultimately, that initiative basically backfired, at least in those big overt measures. But I don't know what increased biometric scanning and cameras and surveillance technology got sold to all those casinos after the fact. We know that Las Vegas is one of the most surveilled places on the planet, and it was that night, too, despite the fact that we have none of the footage, we have none of that surveillance. But that's where it's like, it would It makes sense to be like, if you're a conspiracy theorist, it's like, Oh, it's a gun control, a false flag.

But then they're not going to push the gun control. Furthermore, why are you going to false flag, like, attack all the concert goers and then have this further engaged conflict of multiple pull suspected gunmen all across the Las Vegas Strip, over at the airport, mysterious helicopters that we know are up there. It doesn't explain any of that at all. No, it doesn't. You would just literally, if it was about gun control, you would actually just have a Steven Paddock type character get a rifle and walk into the crowd and start shooting. That's where it's like, Okay, we need to square all these weird pieces, and how do we square all of these weird pieces? You might think about things like a heist gone wrong or a this A lot of the other versions that are more like the average person might come up with them because you see movies. If you just glance at all the evidence, you might be like, Oh, it's like if Oceans 11 got really messed up in real life. But it's not because in Oceans 11, there's no reason to murder 60 concertgoers with automatic gunfire, probably coming from helicopters.

That would never be a part of a heist. You would never do that. Furthermore, how would you convince any American, no matter How slimy. How would you even convince Hillary Clinton and Anthony Wiener? If they got into the helicopter together, are they going to shoot automatic gunfire into 60 civilians out of the helicopter? I don't think so. Probably not. Let's be real. I know we don't like them, but you need to square- That's a big step. Who the hell would shoot all of these concert goers? And how do you square the concert shooting with whatever else was happening? And this is where I stumbled across the work largely of John Cullen, and Jason Goodman got big into this as well, and a bunch of other people did, too. Mindy Robinson mentioned a bit in her documentary, and many, many more that I'm not mentioning right now. But John and Jason, they really dug into this for a long time, for many, many years, and they teased out this narrative over time. When I first stumbled across it, I didn't have the depth of understanding or the context of political awareness and intel agency history to really understand what they meant.

I heard it as the baseline, and we'll tease this out a fair bit, I think, but the baseline of the theory is like, Muhammad bin Salmon, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, is in Vegas for the night or whatever. He's staying at his cousin's hotel, which is the upper floors of the Mandalay Bay, the Four Seasons. Al-walid bin Talal owned 45% of that hotel chain at the time. He's staying in the hotel. It was an assassination attempt on him. We'll dig this out a lot to try to understand what we do and don't know about it and let people make their own minds. But at the first encounter countering of it, when I thought about it, I was like, so that would explain an assassination attempt on someone like bin Salmon might explain all this gunfire across the strip where there's an evacuation happening and there's operatives running around and there's Because all those shootings in all these hotels where there's no civilian victims, really, to note, that, to me, implies two armed forces fighting each other. You know what I mean? Just basic logic is if you have a bunch of gunfire going off all across a city and no civilians are getting shot, then it's because you have people with guns shooting at people with guns, I would assume.

It's like, okay, that explains maybe that stuff. Maybe it explains the airport stuff. Maybe it explains an evacuation. It explains helicopters turning off their transponders and hovering over the Mandalay Bay, which we saw them do and didn't see them do, so to speak. It explains a lot of these pieces, but it's like, But how does that explain shooting up the concert. At first, it was like, Are they shooting up the concert to trigger his evacuation protocol? That doesn't make sense. I don't get it. It's because I didn't understand the historical context of Saudi Arabia and of Wahhabism and of Al Qaeda and of the power struggle that had been raging in Saudi Arabia for years at that point and had really intensified right at that moment. I still don't understand it because it's so freaking complicated. But once you look at Saudi Arabia and their history, their royal structure, their political structure, and the political seismic shift that has happened around the Solomon Line, right now, that piece starts to click into place. Because when you look at something so horrid as the Las Vegas shooting, who is going to shoot 20-year-old girls in the face with just reckless abandon like that.

That is the definition of a terrorist attack. If you don't know anything about the incident, how do you even come up with a perpetrator that could ever bring themselves to do such a thing? It's like, is it North Korea? Is it Is it Russia? Is it Iran? Who hates American people that much?

The American brain can only explain that by attributing it to a crazed lone gunman who's seized by mental illness or something. But the American brain cannot fathom any organized group of people doing something like that.

Certainly not our own. You can be the craziest conspiracy theorist with literally wrapped in tinfoil sitting in your own microwave, but you still can't... It is still not a legitimate argument to say that a CIA officer is going to get onto that helicopter and shoot a minigun at civilian Americans. I don't believe that. Not a chance.

And if I start believing that, I'm leaving. No.

Even the most horrendous... Even Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton, take your pick of the most vile people in American history, they're not going to do that. It's like, who would? When you look at the history of Saudi Arabia and the warring factions of their religious and political ideology and the Wahhabism hardliners that very much are aligned beside Al Qaeda and that are where Al Qaeda, fractioned off from, and you know this far more than me, that is very much an ideology that is perfectly okay with killing Western young people with reckless abandon.

The interesting thing is that MBS, Mahmoud bin Salmon, then the Crown Prince, still technically the Crown Prince, but the man who runs Saudi, I mean, he's just crushed them.

He's changed everything.

Since then, just crushed them. But specifically, he's gone after- Specific people.

Those people. Let's unpack this a little bit.

Wait, before we go further, just the key question, do we know that he was in Vegas that day?

No, we do not. There's this one video that that question hinges around because people started to talk about this theory in the months following this and in the years following it. This video emerged and went viral. I have questions over whether this was orchestrated in order to discredit the theory, as often happens, where when a theory that we're not supposed to talk about gains power and steam and traction, people start talking about it, you release something that is supposed to be a piece of that theory that is easily disproveable. This video goes viral.

I'm watching that right now.

Exactly, right? This video goes viral of this evacuation that happens that night, where there's these two guys surrounded by armed police officers, clearly clearing the area, evacuating out of one of the hotels, and someone gets it on a cell phone camera. The two guys that are not police officers, that are not armed, one of them is wearing red shoes and a white baseball jersey, and he's carrying a little bag that looks like an important Las Vegas-y money or something bag. The other guy's in a suit. The idea is, is this guy in the white jersey, Muhammad bin Salmon? Which is at first, what are you talking about? Dressed like that? I don't think so. But who knows? Maybe it was constructed to be like, he's in disguise. The short version is we know for a fact that that was not Muhammad bin Salmon. He was one of the chiefs of security at that hotel, and he posted online. I was like, No, that's me. These are my shoes. I'm a sneakerhead. Here's all the corroboration you could ever need. That's me. I was called into work because I live nearby. Because they had not yet cleared that building, I came in with that team as they cleared the building.

Then you can see in the video, right at the end of the video, the cops keep going straight, and him and the guy in the suit, they veer off to the right towards something. They have a little dialog where it's like, Hey, you go to the offices? And they go to their offices to start working on the crazy security situation that they're in the middle of. And so that video is not at all related. It has nothing to do with it. But it got fed into the narrative right at this critical moment where I suspect that it was supposed to discredit this, muddy the waters of this question of was bin Salmon in Las Vegas at that time? I have not even begun the surface of the research that these other folks have done over years of trying to verify where he was that night. The best that anyone has gotten, as far as I've seen, is that there's a hole in his schedule where no one knows where he was. We know that he was other places before, and we know he was other places after, but that specific little window of time, a couple of days around Las Vegas, around October first, 2017, no verification of where he was at all.

We do not know. Ibn Sadh that founded the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, he had a bunch of sons, and it's been his sons ever since. The king of Saudi Arabia has been getting older and older and older because as one has abdicated or been overtaken or whatever, it's just been like, first they were in their 30s, and now they're in their 40s, and now they're in their 60s, and now they're in their 70s. Now King Salmon took office. I said office because I'm American. He took the throne in his '80s. The last three kings of Saudi Arabia, King Fahd, King Abdullah, and King Solomon, super relevant to the current power struggle that's happening. King Fahd was '82 to 2005. I'm no expert on religion, on Islam, on Saudi American politics, but it's not hard to figure out that King Fod was pretty hardliner, and a lot of these guys are pretty damn hardliner. This Wahhabism, this very, very conservative religious government that they run. King Fahd, he oversaw a whole bunch of terrorism. Let's not forget that, yeah, there's a lot of things that happen on 9/11 that I don't think the official narrative accounts for, but we do know for a fact that Saudi Arabia was very involved.

Saudi Arabia represented, what was it, 17? What was it?

17 of 19, I think.

I think it was less than 17. I think it was 15 or 16 out of 19. But it was a significant number.

Overwhelming majority, yeah.

Majority the hijackers, whatever role they really played, whatever conspiracy theory you want to be on. Then Saudi Arabia also was involved in the intelligence around it. They were baked in. When you get deeper into the CIA's analysis, postmortem analysis of what happened, Saudi Arabia stonewalled the hell out of them. Osam bin Laden was born out of this Saudi Wahhabi-ist mindset, and he took it in this direction towards politics, away from just religious perspective and towards political violence and political movement, born out of America getting in there and doing what we always do. There's all sorts of depth there that I don't understand, but you don't have to understand all the depth of it to know that has an interesting relationship with that era, because regardless of how involved he was during that era, Osam bin Laden was creating and growing Al Qaeda and doing whatever it is you think Al Qaeda was involved in, not just in 9/11, but in all these other terror attacks, too. These hardliners, these brother-kings, there's this divide that emerges in more recent times with King Solomon and his son, Muhammad bin Salmon. There's other people that are aligned with them, but they're obviously the two figureheads of this of this newer Saudi Arabia, they are very different.

Muhammad bin Salmon, especially. But King Solomon has been very much more progressive, and Muhammad bin Salmon is very much like, he wants to give women's rights, and he's throwing giant music festivals, and he's trying to move their investments away from just oil. They're allowing alcohol. Exactly. They're doing all these things that from the hardliner's perspective, you're destroying the faith. You're destroying the nation, you're destroying the kingdom.

In the regional context, he's been radical, for sure.

There's a lot articles, news articles from the Middle East predating the Las Vegas shooting. In the in the years and months, there's some of them that are two years ahead of that where it's princes because there's thousands of these princes, but some of them are very important and some of them are lesser important. And there were very important princes basically creating manifesto-level texts saying, We need to stop these fucking weaklings from taking over and destroying the kingdom. And basically calling on these hardliners to get together and kick these guys out and deal with them. And there is a history of political violence back in, I think it was the '60s, was the first time that the king was assassinated, and he was assassinated by his nephew, I believe it was, I believe it was, his cousin.

I think that's correct.

Ever since, even before that, but ever since, it has very much been this Game of Thrones place where you have a kingdom that has religion baked in, it has this oil wealth, and it has this history growing of political of infighting for the throne, vying for the throne.

It's high-stake stuff, for sure.

Very high-stakes. As you approach the Las Vegas shooting, and this is stuff that John Cullen and Jason Goodman dug a ton into, and you can go to John Cullen's YouTube channel and dig back through it all because he did it all in these one hour long podcasts and exposés that takes a long time to get through. But he very much lays out his version of the theory, and he's not the only one, but he's the most deep into this theory. I very much think it's the most likely. I think it's the most fleshed out and logical theory, all the way from explaining why we saw terrorism that night, but also why we saw these other things. But also it fits into this historical perspective of what was actually happening in Saudi Arabia at the time that we as Americans aren't aware of because the secession had just shifted. King Solomon, not Muhammad bin Salmon, King Solomon was on the throne. He took the throne, what was it, in 2015, I believe. Yeah, 2015, Solomon takes the throne, and he changes the succession. I believe it was earlier in 2017. It was maybe six months or so before the Vegas shooting.

He changes it from one of these hardliner guys to his son, Bin Salman, Muhammad Bin Salman. It's very confusing with these names. If you're American, you're not to Arab names. But then the moment that Bin Salman gets in there, there is reporting about his actions. You have to triangulate it from watching what he does, but he immediately starts to consolidate power. One of the examples is he moves to dismantle their intelligence apparatus and move it under the jurisdiction of their defense department, which he's the head of. The guy that was in charge of the intelligence apparatus at the time was one of these hardliners from one of these other family lineages. It's things like that where he's kicking people out of their positions, he's changing around who's in charge of positions, and he's trying to take away power from these various hardliners that have had it out for him for years and do not want this shift to take place. He's replaced a guy that doesn't want him there, and now he's the Crown Prince. He's going to take the throne, and his dad might abdicate at any time. His dad is in his 80s.

At any moment, he could either die or get sick or just decide that he's over it, and his son is now the king. So bin Salmon is not a dumb ass, and he knows that he needs to do something about all these opposing family members that are actively trying to take him out. They've been talking about trying to take him out for a long time. What I just explained about the head of intelligence and the nature of the power of the intelligence networks, that's just one piece of what he's doing here. He's doing that for months leading up to the 2017 to the date of October first, when this shooting happens. When the Las Vegas shooting happens, it's right in the middle of this building of tension, this shifting of power that we think is over there. It's over in Saudi Arabia, obviously. It's understandable that that would be happening in Saudi Arabia, so we have a burden of proof to explain why would this be happening in Las Vegas. I don't know if we've met that burden of proof in the way the theory has developed over the years of people digging into this and trying to piece it apart.

But Al-Walid bin Talal, one of the richest of all of the Saudi princes, he's like, I guess it's changed over the years, but we're talking like a multi-multi-billionaire. In 2017, he was like the 40-somethingth richest person in the world by Forbes or whoever, something like $16 or $17 billion networth, if I remember correctly. He is like the Saudi Bill Gates, is the way a lot of people are referred to him. He owned a 45% stake in the Four Seasons hotel chain. The Four Seasons hotel chain owns, well, they cooperate the top, I think, six floors of the Mandalay Bay above where Paddock was, allegedly where Paddock room was. The theory started to dig into, people started to look at this like, well, so we have a faction, this Wahhabi hardliner faction, that we know would willingly kill massive numbers of Americans for whatever reason, even if it's just incidental to something else, they would be happy to kill Americans. It's not like every Saudi Arabian person is this way. That's not what's being claimed by anyone. It's that there are people with legitimate terroristic ideologies in those factions.

They're very opposed to MBS.

They're very opposed to MBS. To them, it's an existential threat. They need to... And they're not quiet about that. They have been talking about that for two years and more. And the clock is ticking because MBS's dad is going to abdicate and MBS is going to take the throne. And MBS knows this. And so in the months leading into this shooting, MBS is actually going after them. He's seizing some of their money. He's restricting their travel. He's reallocating power and consolidating power very actively and overtly. Not like we have to assume this was happening. We know that those things were happening. And so their clock is ticking, and their window of power and freedom is closing because they're getting their travel restricted. They're getting their elements of power being taken from them. And So you actually are looking at a faction that is willing to do the thing we see being done with motive to do it in the time frame that we see it done in. Then we have this window of lack of information of where was MBS at the time, and we don't know. We talked about that video that was probably just misinformation fed in.

We do not know if he was in Las Vegas at the time. No one has shown anything to prove that he was or wasn't. It is worth noting that his brother, his son, KBS. Is KBS his or his brother, Khalid bin Salmon. He was the ambassador to America. I think he's his younger brother. I think that's correct. Khalid bin Salmon, I think is his name. He was the ambassador to the United States for Saudi Arabia, and he is very much in the same faction. So various people think that this has to do with MBS. Some people think it has to do with his brother Khalid bin Salmon. But we don't really know if they're there or not. But right after this mass shooting happens, and whatever the hell it was, bin Salmon goes on this what was called the Saudi perch, and it includes the Night of a Thousand Swords. It's this mythical night where he... My understanding is that he invites all of the Crown Princes in for something like... It was like, what was it? They were going to unveil something or he had this weird event planned. Oh, it was that they were going to give a citizenship to an AI robot named Sophia.

It's this very bizarre little side quest where he's like, We're going to be the first nation to give citizenship to a robot, is my understanding here. It's this big, and everybody come here, and we're going to have this big party thing. Then he locks them all in a hotel. The Ritz Carleton, really. The Ritz Carleton. There's all this lore and legend around it that you have to sort through to figure out what really happened and what is storytelling. But what really did happen is that over that night and then the weeks and months following, he seized billions and billions and billions of dollars of assets from all of these hardliner guys, all these guys that are aligned with these people that had been slighted, people that he had stepped in their places of, people that would hate him and want him dead. It totaled up to almost $200 billion confirmed that he has seized from all these different people over this year or two time frame here after the shooting. A couple of die in mysterious things like helicopter crashes. Some of them are... For example, there's this... I guess it's a story, but it's corroborated by a bunch of reporting and journalism.

I think it's intentionally leaked out because he wants, bin Salmon wants everyone to know this story, that he takes Al-Walid bin Talal, the guy that owns the Four Seasons hotel, the richest of all of these hardliner princes that is against him. He strings him up by his feet, and he actually gets Blackwater guys, apparently, military contractors from Blackwater, American military contractors over there, and they torture him. They hang him up by his feet, and they torture him for who knows how long, maybe days, beating him and all this stuff and humiliating him. And we don't really know what comes of it, but his assets are stripped. Basically, his power is neutered, and that's done to a number of people. But there's a lot of lore around what was done to bin Talal, and there's a lot of theorizing by American journalists around this Las Vegas shooting that bin Talal might have been the big money and the big guy behind a big element of the planning of this thing. Because the theory starts to be maybe it was an assassination attempt on bin Salmon or his brother. We don't know for sure, but what we do know is there was an assassination attempt later that year.

I think it was in, or I guess it would have been the next year. It was in June of 2018, I believe, and it was at the palace in Riyadh. There's video footage of it. Once again, it's one of these moments where actually it's like automatic gunfire going off and I don't know if there's explosions, but it's like, and they stormed the palace and tried to kill Muhammad bin Salmon. Actually, it's pretty well speculated that he actually got shot at some point in that assassination attempt because he disappeared from the public for eight weeks or 12 weeks or something like that. You start to put these pieces of this puzzle together, just the contextual stuff around it, where we don't know for sure that he was there that night, and we don't really have evidence of anything super concrete Saudi there until we talk about the helicopters. But we do have context for this war over immense power and wealth, and we do have context for why they might be there in this hotel, this location. We do have context for there are assassination attempts happening on his life, obviously by those factions. Then a year to the day, almost to the hour, maybe, After the Las Vegas shooting happens, Jamal Khashoggi gets chopped up into little pieces over in the embassy.

That was a year to the day?

To the day. Was it in 2018 or was it after that? Was it 2019 2020?

I don't recall. I think it was around 2018.

I think it was '18. But what I'm remembering is, specifically, John Collins's reporting on this because this is one of the things that he zeroed in on, that people then were like, Whoa. Because when you account for the time zone difference from where he was. Was he in Turkey? I think it was. He was in Istanbul. In Istanbul, right? When you account for the time difference, it's pretty damn close to actually... Because he got chopped up, I believe it was on October second. But when you account for the time difference, it was actually the night of October first, the exact anniversary of this shooting, this possible assassination attempt. It's like, Okay, well, what does Jamal Khashoggi have to do with this? Well, the Khashoggi family is this deep power family in Saudi Arabia. Anan Khashoggi, famously, was one of the world's most powerful arms traffickers that did business with Jeffrey Epstein and sold Trump his boat and all these things. But they were tied in much more significantly politically than that. Jamal, specifically, before he was a journalist working for the Washington Post, he was actually working for the head of Saudi intelligence, I guess, doing journalism for him.

Then you actually go further back, and some of these guys dug up reporting and photographs, news reporting with photographs that he was actually in the Mujdat al-Din hanging out, holding a rocket launcher, way back in the day.

Well, he certainly supported those elements. There's no doubt about it, even though it was life didn't mirror their beliefs. But there's no... I don't know the answer, but there's no question that he was not murdered because of his Washington Post columns.

Exactly. It was so stupid.

And so the question becomes- He was critical of MBS, the Washington Post, like they care. Exactly. No, there's more than that.

Then you start to ask yourself, the question is, why was he murdered? Not just murdered, but why was he murdered so brutally and intentionally in a place that was a public spectacle? It looks like it's to send a message. It very much looks like it's to send a message. You start to wonder, okay, well, when he does the Night of the Thousands' swords, when he confiscates all these people's wealth. He strings Bin Talal up by his feet and beats him and then seems to intentionally let that story get out. Then this really public murder of this other guy that's aligned with those factions happens on the one year anniversary of this event, you start to see this triangulation of vengeance of something there. This is obviously speculation to connect all of these things, but this context matters because, again, 60 people were murdered, and there is an explanation, and it's obviously not the mainstream narrative, but then you have to explain how did 60 people die and why. There's a reason for everything. Even if it's an asteroid, just boom, random, collision, there's still an explanation for why it happened. You need to find a scenario that actually is reality, that does fit with the facts that are true, that explains the horrific thing that we saw.

You're starting to see the reason why this theory took so much root and why so many people are interested in it, myself included, is that it explains how you could do something so horrible to innocent American civilians, but it also explains all the other weird operations. Not that we know for sure what happened in all those hotels, but that you start to understand why you would have reports of armed gunmen in tactical gear over there and over there and over there at the airport, why you have these weird helicopters going on.

Okay, so the helicopters. I said, just to recap super quick, the story you're telling is remarkable, by the way. It does seem to fit all kinds of disparate pieces together into what appears It's not like a coherent hole, but you don't know. I said, do we know that MBS or his brother or any of his relatives were in town that day? No, we don't. But you said there's the question of the helicopters, which I think you've already made a compelling case we're involved in the shooting. What do you mean? What helicopters?

We know that there are helicopters in the air that don't show up on the transponder data, and we know that there's weird transponder data on helicopters that came from the Maverick and Sundance helicopter tour operators and all that. But the question is, even before you have seen John Cohen's research on the fact that there's some helicopters that never have transponders on that aren't on any of the flight radar data, as in there's literal ghost helicopters there that seem to be shooting. Before you even know that, if you're speculating that there's some foreign assassination attempt in there and there's helicopters involved, it's like, Well, where the hell did they get the helicopters? How do you get helicopters halfway around the world from Saudi Arabia? You can't just fly over the ocean in a helicopter and go shoot someone. And so these guys started to look into it. And this is directly taken from the research of John Cohen and Jason Goodman, who did amazing work on this stuff. We all owe them a great debt on this because they started to look. Where are their helicopters around? And they stumbled across a thing called Operation Red Dawn.

It turns out that for the entire month of August, the month before, well, one whole month before the shooting, this hotel called the W in Las Vegas was rented out for the Saudi Royal Air Force because they were bringing their guys over to actually do a giant training operation, a joint training operation in this thing called Operation Red Dawn in the desert outside of Las Vegas. Simultaneous to that, Saudi Arabia had done this gigantic weapons deal with American defense contractors, I mean, America, because you have to go through our government in order to do those contracts, as you know. They had bought a whole bunch of military hardware from various defense contractors, and that included a whole bunch of helicopters from Boeing. There's this new helicopter that had just been designed by Boeing called the AH-6i that was just finishing its first run of production, and it had not been delivered to anyone else yet in the world. You can look these things up. They're these compact, they're like combat stealth reconnaissance helicopters designed to be extremely mobile, extremely small. You can fold the rotors up and pack them into a shipping container on a truck, and they can just slide right into a truck back.

But they also can have mini guns on them. They are extremely stealthy. They're very quiet. They're very small. They have just two seats in them. They are a a really specific type of helicopter that was just getting finished in 2017. They were delivering their first shipment in 2017, and they were actually there at this Operation, Operation Red Dawn, where the entire Saudi Royal Air Force was in the Las Vegas area just a month before the shooting goes down, two to one month before the shooting goes down. People did all sorts of digging into the description of the helicopters from victims and the what these helicopters look like. They've got this giant camera bulb on the bottom. But the fact is that it's like, oh, wait a minute. There's literally Saudi helicopters stationed right over there in the desert just to hop away from Vegas for this giant operation where the Saudi Royal Air Force, has literally been on location just before this thing goes down. And those helicopters are specifically a helicopter. You couldn't do this with a Black Hawk, for example. But you could pack one of those helicopters into a box truck and drive it off into the desert and just park it there.

And no one would ever know there's a helicopter parked there because it's inside of a box. And then you can just take it out, unfold the rotors, and you're off. Amazing. And so it's like, Wait a minute. What? Because, again, you have to remind yourself that in journalism, in the pursuit of truth, you have to find true circumstances, which you can evidence, hopefully corroborate as well by multiple sources, that explains what you're seeing. What we saw is we have footage of helicopters, we have reports of helicopters, and we have flight transponder data that seems to indicate at least some helicopter activity that's suspicious from the airfield, but pretty good evidence that there's helicopters that aren't even transpondered on. When you hear that gunfire, it's like, Oh, that would explain why the gunfire sounds like belt-fed machine guns, because that's what's on these kinds of helicopters. That would explain why we see these flying things coming around behind the Mandalay Bay and going with little lights in the back, like off in the darkness. That would explain why there's trajectories of fire that are coming down directly from overhead on some of these people. Yes. That would explain why...

It would start to fit into a narrative where at the helicopters that we do know were on the transponder data, there's a couple of groups of them. There's one group of three that takes off earlier in the night. They take off from by the helicopter operator, and they fly over to the Mandalay Bay and hover over top of it, and they turn their transponders off. Their transponders are off for the entire shooting, and then their transponders turn back on after the shooting is over, and they fly over and join this group of eight that are taking off in the minutes after the shooting and flying north away from the strip. We know that? Yeah. You can go and watch all the footage people record. Multiple people corroborated it and recorded it from Flight Radar 24 at the time. Now, transponder data is only historically kept for up to three years, I think. And Flight Radar 24 has the widest time horizon. If you pay the $500 membership, you can get, I think, three years of data. So it's long gone now from public access. But many, many different journalists published video footage of this transponder data, corroborated between each other.

And yeah, we know that lots of weird helicopter stuff happened on the transponder data. Then that's where John Cohen took it one step further and triangulated everything and realized that he pretty well proved that even aside from that, we have helicopters that aren't those ones. At times when we know where all those ones are, and I still see a helicopter in this footage right now that has flashing what looks like gunfire. We also have a plane on that transponder footage that is flying under the call sign of a Southwest Boeing 747, and it flies over the airport and then does a right turn the way a helicopter would and then flies over the Mandalay Bay, or I guess it was the Delano, not the Mandalay Bay for this one. Then it hovers over the Delano for a while, and then it goes off. It's under the call sign of a Southwest passenger plane like a Boeing 747 that also was somewhere else at the top.

But it's a helicopter.

It's obviously a helicopter. Just by the way it flies, it's obviously a helicopter because it- It's a fixed-wing aircraft, don't hover. Yeah. They tend to fall out of the sky when they try. The Boeing you fly around America on, that one can't hover. But this one could. This one, though it was apparent, it was labeled as this Southwest Airlines passenger plane. It flew and took a hard right turn at speed over top of the airport and then went and hovered over the Delano and then went and took off. We have all this weird shit going on in the air. It starts to corroborate the idea that helicopters are involved, and there appears to be more than one thing of helicopters going on because you can't explain helicopter shooting civilians from helicopters that are taking off from Sundance, and I always forget the other one, from these tour operators. Maverick and Sundance are very much a part of the community there. They run tours all over Vegas every single day. Their helicopters are known at the airport. The air traffic control knows them. They talk to them all the time. We do have some weird shit going on with air traffic control.

We do have the audio of air traffic control. And air traffic control didn't even know that the shooting was happened until several minutes after it had finished. And we have the audio of it. It's almost tragic. As the shooting is happening, they're just directing traffic like normal. And then as the shooting is finishing, right around 10: 14, 10: 15, 10: 16, air traffic control starts asking the helicopter operators, because there's these tour operators that are apparently launching tour helicopters at the time. It's like, Hey, Sundance or Maverick, can you see what's happening over at that concert over there? What's going on? I see a lot of police lights and stuff, and they're chatting back and forth. It was like, Yeah, I think the concert just got out. But unbeknownst to them, 60 people are dead on the ground, and the shooting is already fully happened, and everything is... At least that part of everything is done. Then they start to get... In the next eight minutes, they start to realize what the hell is going on. Then air traffic control starts rerouting everybody and starts trying deal with it, keeping the runways clear. Then it's like the 30 minutes later where air traffic control comes through and says, We have an active shooter on the runway.

Then they ask to turn the lights off. That's where it became like, if helicopters were shooting people, you need to figure out where those helicopters came from because they almost certainly didn't come from these tour helicopter operators, where we haven't even talked about the shooting that happened in those hangers, by the way.

That was shooting in the hangers?

Multiple people reported shootings in those hangers, and in other hangers in the airport as well. But we can come back to that.

Wait, do we know anything about those shootings?

All we know is that there were three different 911 calls that came in sequentially that were from relatives and friends of people that were in the hangers because apparently, the people in the hangers were trying to call 911 and couldn't get through almost as though they were being jammed or something like that, somehow got comms out or something. It was a boyfriend of a girl that was in there. It was reported that there was a woman down who had been shot. We don't know if she died or not. We don't have an autopsy from any woman that died in those hangers. But it was that a woman had been shot and that there were gunmen in the hangers somewhere, and there was a bunch of civilians trying to hide from them, trying to run and hide from that gunman.

Is this during the shooting at Mandalay Bay?

Those calls all come after the shooting at Mandalay Bay.

A woman down. Okay, so it's not like... I mean, this whole time I'm thinking, well, maybe it's just the echo of the shots fired into the Jason L.

No, no, no. We have a woman down in that hangar We have guns picked up in the street and handed to police officers in other parts of the city. We have- Long guns? No, pistols. There are magazines that are found in other parts of the city. Around the concert venue, there's AR magazines. There's a magazine found out in front of the Tropicana. There's a bunch of casings found in the parking lot of the Tropicana. I've got all sorts of video footage of this stuff that I'll give to you, and you can splice in wherever you want. Then people can go on to that map that I talked about. The vast majority of what I'm referring to is on that map, and you can actually click on it and see the footage original for yourselves. Then there's also all the gunfire that was recorded after the fact and the chatter of of armed suspects, gunmen in all sorts of places being observed. We know very well that there were lots of other things happening, but we don't have a lot of other bodies, except for this woman in the helicopter hangar that was allegedly shot. We don't know if she died.

We don't know about her?

I don't know anything about her. I don't think that we ever got any answers on that.

This is the craziest story ever. The craziest part is how people just let it go and didn't... The biggest mass shooting in American history, we never talked about it. No one ever followed up on any of this stuff. No federal agency ever said, Wait a second, we're going to cut off highway funding unless you answer these questions.

Well, what did happen after it, which is where we were there, is that MBS goes on this purge of his political opposition in Saudi Arabia. The next time that Trump flew to Saudi Arabia, he got the sword dance welcome, right? Do you remember that? I do. Yeah. That is not a thing you just give out to Donald Trump because you like him. That is a whole different level of respect in Saudi Arabia, is my understanding. That's where we get that photo of Trump with his hand on the globe with the other Saudi guys is from that trip. Also, simultaneous to that, Mahab bin Salmon invested what appears to be $2 billion with a fund started by Jared Kushner in the year following this shooting, which is an interesting choice. I mean, it's not a completely unthinkable choice, but a lot of alignments start to happen. Trump has been very pro-MBS for a long time, and Al-Walid, this other guy who owned the Four Seasons and got strung up by his feet, he's hated Trump for a long time. Actually, there's archived tweets of his that are like, Trump, you're a fucking idiot. Why would you do this?

Kind of stuff. After this shooting in Vegas, you start to see deep alignments strengthened between Trump's government and bin Salmon and bin Salmon's government. Bin Salmon is rounding up his political opposition. He's modernizing Saudi Arabia. He's trying to turn them away from just oil and this old Wahhabi-ish way of thinking. It's obvious, from an American national defense and national security standpoint, that's one of the most obvious things you could ever desire is for Saudi Arabia to stop being sympathetic to Al Qaeda-style terrorism. Because there are factions in Saudi Arabia that are still very much like, no, F the infidels. Certainly not all of them.

For sure. But you never thought you would see it in Saudi Arabia because it's the seat of their religion, because Mecca, Medina, the top two holy places are in the country. Seed of their religion and power. Right. It was believed that government didn't have latitude to become more pro-western because every Muslim has to go to Mecca.

Exactly. It's an interesting moment in the political shifting of the Middle East.

It's a world-changing moment.

That's as the Middle East is rising in wealth through not all the best means. There's a whole other episode to do about the genocide in Sudan and the gold being smuggled to the UAE, which is atrocious. But you can see it feels like a currency shift is coming, and it feels like the Middle East rising into their modern incarnation. There's no question about that. It feels like all these things are happening.

But may I just ask one thing just to... I mean, it's an amazing explanation, true or not, but the piece that's missing in my mind is why, if you wanted to murder Mohammed bin Salmon, would you shoot up a Jason Aldeen concert?

That is a good question. That's the question that first got me hung up on this whole theory. I don't really know. It's still the most endearing mystery of the whole thing to me in that we've aligned on a story that has a perpetrator that we know is perfectly, morally capable of doing so. Essentially, we're saying the most extreme jihaddi terrorist factions from that That is possible, but that still doesn't explain why it would be a part of the plan. Different people come to different theories here, and none of them really satisfy me. One is that we have They have rounds that were fired at the fuel tanks at the airport. So across from the Mandalay Bay, across diagonally ahead of it is the concert, but across directly is the airport beyond the concert. And there's these giant white fuel tanks, these giant metal white fuel tanks over there that got shot by a bolt-action fire. The police story is that one of them penetrated but didn't ignite. But they say that officially, eight rounds fired at the fuel tanks. I don't know how they know 8, specifically. Two of them hit the fuel tanks, didn't ignite.

There's a certain fraction of people that think that the goal was to ignite those fuel tanks and basically explode them, which to me speaks to distraction or chaos caused pandemonium as some part of a plan. There's a lot of reasons why you might want pandemonium in something like this, but it's hard to say what that means. But In that theorizing, you could then say, Okay, well, if the tanks don't ignite, then just shoot the concertgoers. That'll cause pandemonium. That's never really satisfied my question or curiosity.

The idea that it was a diversion makes sense. I mean, of course.

It does make sense to have it as a diversion.

But do we have any evidence? If the Crown Prince was in the hotel, he likely would have been above Steven Paddock in the Four Seasons portion of the hotel. Do we have any evidence that anything weird was going on there?

Not to my knowledge, other than the fact that we have helicopters that took off from the tour operator, three of them early on before everything started, that go fly over top of the Mandalay Bay and then turn their transponders off, and they're off for the entire duration of the shooting. Don't really know what happens there. We have helicopters that appear to be shooting that are circling around the Mandalay Bay in the footage. Much later, we have reports of an armed gunman. First, it's a possible suspect on the fourth floor of the Mandalay Bay. We're talking like an hour to an hour and a half later. Then just shortly after that first call, I'm pretty sure this one was reported by police, not like a 911 call, but on police radio. I could be wrong about that. Is it first it's a suspect, and then it escalates, and a few minutes later, it's like, We have an armed gunman on the fourth floor of Mandalay Bay, and then we have no follow-up on that. We have no context of what happened there, whether that was real or not. We don't know. But other than that, there's actually a serious lack of anything happening in the Mandalay Bay.

There is the explosive breaching of the police team getting in there, the one SWAT guy with his team breaching into Paddock's room. That's a question. We don't know. But other than that, there's not a whole lot of reported activity. One thing that I believe it was Colin again that noticed this is in the photos of the room, he noticed that there were loaded AK47 magazines, AK-style magazines, but there was no AKs in the room.

And they were loaded with 7. 62 by 39.

Yeah, they were full. They were completely filled. As though you had had a case that you were going to go shoot in the desert, whatever the actual explanation for why Paddock thought he was there, whatever that was. He speculates speculates. I don't have a better explanation, but John Cohen speculates that the shot that we hear earlier in the day that was reported by someone on the floor, they said it was like 3: 30 or so. Someone reported that they heard a shot in the Mandalay Bay, a single shot. He speculates that that's when Steven Paddock was killed, that they opened his door, whether they've already manipulated the key cards or they just knock and walk in and shoot him. I don't know. But he speculates that that's when Paddock was actually killed. But if you're playing out this narrative to try to make that make sense, if you are Saudi hit squads and you walk into this room of paddocks filled with all these weapons, you're going to pick up the one you're familiar with. That would make sense in my mind. It would.

I should have asked this earlier. Has the hotel ever released all the relevant surveillance footage?

Not a single ounce of it. No. Even though there endless surveillance footage, obviously.

Of course. Every- It's not that they didn't release footage that disproved people.

It's not that there was 911 calls and people were conspiracy, theorizing. It was like, something happened in the Bellagio. So they released footage that showed nothing happened in the Bellagio. That's not what happened. They didn't release anything at all. That's incredible. Yeah. And they put gag orders on all of their employees, and everything, it was just this chill on everything. I actually don't remember. At the time, I'm trying to remember if this guy was-Publicly traded. Yeah, this guy got into politics. The CEO of MGM, he sold off... Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Man, this is the thing about this story. There's so many details that are like, what the fuck? The CEO of MGM, I should almost refer to my notes, he sold off 80% of his MGM stock six months before the shooting happened. I'm probably going to get the numbers wrong. It was a lot of money. But the number 80% I feel pretty damn confident about. He sold a shitload of his MGM stock in the months leading into this shooting. I think it was six months before. He, later on, was chosen to be the head of the COVID Task Force in Las Vegas, if I remember correctly.

There's a lot of insider stuff like that. Perfect. Okay, what the hell is going on?

Has anyone ever asked the US government, the Saudi government, about any of this?

Other than journalists online, podcasters that have posed the question, John John Cohen is very fond of posing the question. Mindy Robinson made a documentary where she rhetorically posed the question very angrily of, What the fuck is this, guys? Are we ever going to get answers? Are you ever going to answer for this? Obviously, there's no response to any of that as as far as I've ever seen. I don't think anyone has ever really posed the question. I think that you could explain it as a conspiracy theorist of, They're not going to tell us about 9/11, so why would they? But the thing that's really interesting in my mind about this Saudi theory, which is very much just a theory, is that it does explain why it would be geopolitically relevant and sensitive to this day. Oh, for sure. Because then you're actually talking about US-Saudi relations right now with the soon to be king of Saudi Arabia. You're talking about Trump's family relationships because Trump was the President at that time and he was fresh in, and I'm sure that he had something to do with. If that's what happened, I'm sure that Trump had something to do with the response and the security and whatever happened.

But then you're also talking about US-Israel relations because bin Salmon's relationship with Israel is very different than this more hardliner, old-school factions relationship with Israel. There's all of these relationships that shift around Trump's presidency in the United States and his relationship to bin Salman and bin Salman's ascendancy in Saudi and their relationship to everyone else in the Middle East, which is so critical. It's like, well, that does start to explain in my mind why it might not just be that they're covering it up because they're embarrassed and don't want to tell you, but they might actually have this like Trump card, so to speak, of national security. There's a legitimate reason why we're covering this up, so everybody shut your mouths. Because it's hard. How do you cover something so vast?

Even though those would be the victims in this attempted murder, if in fact, that's what it was, I have seen that before where people are on the wrong side of an act of violence or the victims of it, but they don't want to talk about it.

Well, not especially when you're a king of a kingdom so powerful. You don't want to expose a weakness. You don't want to... And also- I've seen that. You certainly don't want to expose, let alone the, what is it, methods, techniques, and the things that intelligence agencies don't want to ever give away. It's like the way we do covert operations and covert extractions and all that. But even beyond giving away state secrets like that, it's like You also don't want to expose all of the collateral damage that was caused in the wake of this thing. Oh, no. Right. Exactly. Because inevitably, let's just imagine that Muhammad bin Salmon, they tried to kill him in Vegas, and he was the good guy in the story, even though that is not what's being said here. Life is all shades of gray. But there's almost no version of that story where a civilian isn't killed because of his team as well, and an American isn't killed because the SWAT team wasn't there to do that because they were over they are doing that, which, by the way, where the fuck was the SWAT team? Now that we've gone through all of this narrative and evidence just teasing out, and then we come back to, where was the SWAT team?

It makes a lot more sense, I bet, in the audience's mind. For me, this was how my own digging into it happened, because I came into this naive, and I look at all this journalism, and early on, I stumbled across the body cam footage of them breaching the room. It doesn't really stick out to me that there's only one SWAT guy with them, even though I acknowledged it. But it was like, That's weird. But then, after this snaking journey through trying to learn all these other elements of what was going on, and you start to learn about the airport, and you learn about the other hotels, and you learn about the possible extraction of a king, Then it's like, Okay, so where was the SWAT team?

The possible extraction of the king, do we have any suggestion that that happened?

No, we do not know. Honestly, now that I'm mentioning it, and I'm thinking it through right now, one of the only... I'm not saying this is concrete evidence. I'm actually saying the opposite, because one of the most concrete pieces of evidence is that the SWAT team was not at the place where they should have been. They should have been at Steven Paddock's door. This is one of the most decorated, experienced, and well-funded one of the biggest SWAT teams in America. They had one guy. They had one shooter in one room that they should have been breaching. But when you actually look at the true story, there's all these other things happening that might have needed their attention more. But my understanding is that SWAT is actually used for protection of high-level dignitaries, used for extraction of high-level... That's the thing that I could imagine them actually being diverted to, right? For sure. Because if this event was this more complex thing of some sort, they're not going to send them to Steven Paddock's room. Actually, that's the last place you want to send your SWAT team, right? Especially once the shooting from Paddock's room has stopped, because if you're already getting reports of something going on at the airport, or if what we're talking about is happening at all, then you're probably getting reports directly from this, whoever high-level dignitary or person that's trying to be assassinated.

There's probably deeper levels of intel being fed to whoever makes the decision of where the SWAT team goes. Of course. You suddenly have a pretty obvious explanation of the SWAT team wasn't there because something more important was happening. We know the SWAT team wasn't at the concert. We don't have evidence of the SWAT team being at the hotels. I don't have any evidence of them being at the airport, although we don't really have enough evidence to say whether they were or not at the airport. But where were they? Because that actually, I think, is one of the biggest pieces of this puzzle.

He would have secret service as well. You said about 60 people were killed, over I know were shot.

Yeah, I think it was 400 plus were wounded in total.

That's a lot of survivors. That's a lot of families of the murdered. Have any of them raised these questions?

A lot of them did early on, and I think a lot of them still do. But a lot of people, I think, feel voiceless, and in a lot of ways are voiceless. If no one's going to go to you, if the media is not going to investigate it, if there's never going to be a federal investigation, then they have no recourse. What wound up happening was independent media started going to them.

So there was no in the... I mean, I was in the fabled mainstream media at the time. I don't remember anyone really pushing on this very hard. Do you know of anyone?

As far as I'm aware, you're the one that pushed the hardest.

It wasn't that hard.

Oh, yeah.

We did get hassled by the police in Las Vegas, which was striking because-Weird. Yeah, you work at Fox News, basically pro-cop. All the cops know that. I've never had any problem with any cop. They're always so nice. And I think the only time I've ever had in the last 20 years anyway, I've ever had a hostility from the police was in Las Vegas, and they tried to block us from our camera position, which was in a vacant lot. I'll never forget this. It was at night, and they tried to make us I thought, that's it. I remember saying to the producer, Man, we've never gotten that treatment.

Interesting. Was it on any specific lot? Yeah, it was a camera shot.

I was doing a standup facing the area where the shooting took place.

They just weren't about it?

No, and they were weird about it, too. Really weird about it and hostile. That was just so striking because, again, if you ask Anyone who works at Fox, you see cops, and they're just so nice because everyone hates cops, except the Fox news anchors. That's their view anyway. I never experienced that before.

It was weird. The whole government just shut up about it, and the mainstream media. It was like three days later, the story just died. Most horrific mass shooting in American history. And those victims, a lot of them are still alive, but they're paralyzed. A lot of them have brain damage. A lot of them lost limbs or eyes or things like that. It's a It's still tragedy, and it's easy to get into conspiracy land only with it. And I do think it's important to try to uncover what really happened, obviously, to try to dig out what the hell is this. But it's easy to lose sight of the fact that that was hundreds of Americans, and then by extension, thousands of Americans, thousands and thousands of Americans, whose lives will never be the same because of that, who lost family members, lost loved ones. It's really sad on that map that I was telling you about, Vegas shooting map. They have death reports of all the victims pinned onto the map, and it gives you their age, their name, their profession. And in some cases, it gives you a little description of who they were and what their life was like and what they were doing.

It's just so sad to read because a lot of them was there with her boyfriend to celebrate their anniversary, was a kindergarten teacher, or things like that. That's where it really hits home, where it's like, you need an explanation that explains why something so evil would happen. I think that's the enduring question that keeps the investigation open. But it's also the enduring question that makes it so that it wasn't solved by just these basic explanations. Because we easily debunked the mainstream narrative. But then there was lots of other half baked versions of maybe it's this, maybe it's this, but none of them explained how evil it was, and none of them explained the scope and scale of what it was. To this day, there's no one proven theory. I've just laid out what is the most explored, and I think by my standard, the most credible version of a theory. A lot of people are pretty much on that theory at this point, that they think that that's the one that is a version of true. But it's not the only theory, and it's far from proven, that's for sure. It wouldn't be... I mean, there's a thing.

You asked, has there ever been any investigation? I'm sure the government already knows. Of course. That's the reason why you get the cover up of this magnitude is because they know. They know what happened. That's obvious.

Whenever there's not an investigation, it's not because no one's interested. We've seen that a lot. In fact, we've seen it so much that you wonder at what point it's just impossible to have a functioning justice system because nobody believes anything.

Yeah. It's just over and over again, when something happens, we feel like we're not like Charlie Kirk is months ago now. To this day, I think the most Americans still feel like we don't have an honest set of answers. Whether you believe it was Tyler Robinson or you believe it was some version of some other conspiracy, I think that a lot of people feel very underwhelmed by the way it was handled by cash, the way it was handled by every government official involved. That should have been the most basic one.

I didn't want to talk about this because I know everyone involved very well, and I feel emotional about it, and I'm going out day after tomorrow to speak at turning point at Charlie's request. The hostility that I... I don't know what that was. The onus is on the government to prove it was a loan gunman. That's up to them, not up to me.

That's their job.

I'm not accusing anybody. I don't know exactly what happened. There is a lot of evidence that Tyler Robinson was involved, at least from what I read. If those text messages are real and the murder weapon is... I'm willing to believe anything, but I do think it's up to them to prove it to us. Here's what I don't understand. There's been an enormous amount of rage people with different views getting mad at each other. There's been almost no pressure on federal law enforcement to cough up the freaking facts and to tell a story that makes sense, that's got internal coherence, that like, Oh, that makes sense. I get it.

Exactly.

There's no pressure on them. Even the question of motive. Again, I want to believe it was a lone gunman who was a tranny or something. I want to believe that.

That's a lot better of an answer, a lot more A hundred %. I want that.

By the way, I'm a middle-aged man. I'm a normie. I don't want to believe anything other than what they tell me, but they've made it impossible for me. But I don't understand the motive. They're like, Well, transgenderism, which obviously I'm opposed to. But okay, was he transgender? Was he on hormones? How do you go from being this seemingly normal person to murdering a stranger with almost a dead certainty, you'll be, pun it, you'll spend life in prison or be executed for it. That's a lot. That's a deep commitment, okay? I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Of course it does. But how did it happen in this case?

Yeah, and tell us the facts, right? Yeah. It's like, Shut up. It's a parallel to the Las Vegas in the sense that just one piece of evidence, in the case of Charlie Kirk, it's one piece of evidence. In the case of Las Vegas, it's like 5 trillion.

Well, the Las Vegas thing, the story is just like...

Well, what I was going to say is that the video is we know they have it. In Vegas, we know that there's surveillance footage of the entire city. We know that every hotel has footage of everything that happened, and we know that they could release it, and we could see these alleged gunmen. We could see these fake 911 calls. In Charlie's case, we know that the camera that they release footage of, of this guy running across the roof, that camera sees the whole roof. That camera sees the shooting position clearly. I went there myself. And so it's like, if you have the video of the shooter running to get off the roof, you have the video of him taking the shot. And so it's these little things where you don't take that step to release the evidence that is so in our faces, to just give a little bit of trust to the public to clarify things. It's like, why don't you take this step for trust? Because like you're saying, it's their job to prove these things. It's their job to- It's not up to you or me.

I mean, I've stayed out of it. Mostly, I've really tried my hardest to stay out of it, but I feel emotional about it. But you're watching the Trump coalition turn against itself, eat itself. Okay, I mean, there are legitimate disagreements, of course. I'm always for that. But no calls for the FBI or the authorities in Utah or the college. There's no pressure on them. What is that?

Well, you wouldn't want to taint a jury pool.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

It's dumb.

Do you know what crimes I've covered? I was a police reporter. The first thing that happens is the authorities call you up and they tell you this is exactly what this They tell you their story. That taint a jury pool? Yeah, it does. In favor of conviction. I've been around this for over 30 years. I'm not an expert in anything, but I've certainly seen law enforcement respond to a crime a lot. I've never heard anybody say anything like this. It doesn't make any sense. What does it even mean?

To me, being younger and newer in this thing, having more naiveté, it's hard growing I'm the quintessential 9/11 generation. I was 7, 8, 9. What was it? 2001, I would have been 9 when 9/11 happened. To me, with my life experience, it's just hard not to be like, when you see the government act this way, it's because they're covering up one of these things that I don't know what they are.

By the way, when I act that way, I'm covering something up. When you do two, that's a human thing. If I'm hiding something, if I'm lying about something, there's a reason. I'm not doing it unless I'm some total sociopathic path freak. I'm not doing it for fun. I'm doing it because I'm trying to conceal something.

Exactly. I think that we've always had them throughout history. We had them in Vietnam. We had them long before that. They've been everywhere in history. But I don't know if it's information increasing the frequency that they feel like they're happening at, or if it's corruption increasing as the empire late stages itself. But it just feels like we're in this era now where every couple of years we get another one that is so big, it's hard to imagine a bigger one, and then boom, COVID hits, right? It's like, what could even be weirder than that? And it's like, I'm not saying that one is more important than the other, but I think it's just striking that over and over there's always more gigantic world events that feel viscerally like cover-ups, where there's no reason for there to be a cover up of the assassination of someone like Charlie, especially when Trump, who Charlie got into power, is in power. When that's their... And it's not like it's Trump's job to solve the crime. It's just that you would hope that he has a coalition in place and that his government and his FBI and his people, that they should have no greater motivation ever than to solve this crime.

But what about all of the people who knew Charlie or who are sad, every American, why are they turning against each other and not against the authorities- Isn't that wild? Whose job it is? I would always think this about the race crap. It's like, Blacks should hate Whites. Whites should be afraid of Blacks. Okay, got it. No one ever mentions private equity. It did feel like a fight amongst yourselves scenario, and this does, too.

I think it's exactly what happened during COVID. Obviously, I have a big bias here, and people should only listen to me about Charlie Kirk through my bias around my reporting on it. But to me, it looks like the same mass formation psychosis that happened during COVID. It's just that that was better at targeting the left because it was like collectivism of collectively we're going to protect all the sick people. And leftists are, never mind. This one is targeting the right because they shot our guy and we loved Charlie. And these these damn leftists hate us. And we've got our leftist tranny guy, and we hate. And they're whipping it up on that. And all the news is perishing the same thing and all of the, not going to name any names, but all the talking heads on social media that are not independent, they're all saying the exact same narrative. And so you get this spiraling narrative that is building this us and that.

I don't even know what the narrative is. I'm happy to buy into your dumb narrative. Just tell me what it is. As I said, my preference is for an easy to understand, non-sinister or less sinister explanation that involves one guy. But if you're telling me the trainee did this, actually, the trainee seems to be in federal protection right now with no charges against him, even though by the text messages they released, he knew about it and didn't go to authorities. So how is he not an accessory? Why Why is he under protection? What's this? So we can testify we have the text messages. You don't need... What? Shouldn't a guy who knew about the crime but didn't report it, who lived with the gunman, shouldn't he be charged with something? What about the people who predicted this on the internet before it happened? Where are they? Okay, so I don't really even know what story are you telling me. I don't even get it.

Right.

Sorry, I'm upset.

No, I totally hear it. I think it's a rage that a lot of Americans feel, and they look for outlet because some people see this piece that didn't make sense, and some people see that piece that didn't make sense, and others just feel a weird vibe from it.

Was the shooter transgender? No. Is that what they're saying? No. Okay, then what does that have to do with it all?

The story is that he became gay for the transgender guy. But it's just like it doesn't have anything to do with it unless you can prove with the facts that he actually had the motive, the means, the weapon, the location he was there.

But what was the motive that Charlie had said bad things I mean, look.

A few times. I know that people were...

The left hated Charlie, fact. They celebrated his death, fact. But to kill somebody you've never met, it's a pretty abstract thing to do.

It's a huge leap. And to plan it out and to go through with it.

A hundred %. So you're either completely deranged or your ideological motivation is so profound, you're a suicide bomber, basically, because you know that you're going to die because of your murder. So that's just such a big step. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm just saying, tell me how.

Tell me how the 4. 0 student that nearly aced his ACT became that.

It's insane. Then the rage of even asking that question, it's like, and I never say this, but I just will say it. I knew Charlie really well, not just green room friends. I knew him really well and loved him. I know for a fact that his whole life was testament to this. He was for inquiry, honest questions. People are like, Oh, just asking questions? Charlie be like, Yeah, just asking questions, as is my birthright. Yeah.

As an American citizen. Yeah, you think?

What you're saying is that mass formation psychology clearly has taken hold among a bunch of people where it's like they just can't think clearly.

Well, I don't think that it takes hold by accident. I think that it's the thing that only happens when you have a massive propaganda campaign and basically a state-sponsored operation to control the information space is what it looks like.

Well, there's definitely I mean, there's definitely some of that flat out we know because I'm watching it and I'm not going to... Whatever. I'm going to just shut up now because I know too many people involved and I love them all, honestly.

It's like with the Vegas shooting, with a lot of these things, it can get swept under the rug. It can get put away. With Vegas, they managed to just stop talking about it. A lot of independent journalists were loud, but there's a lot of other stuff going on, and none of them really We had massive platforms. We weren't in the era of the internet we are in today yet. It was enough to just sweep it under the rug. They never had to build some big, complex alternative narrative and flood the zone and have Shills doing Charlie's is just a different thing. It's like each time, with COVID, we got our own slice of what is weird going on here. With Vegas, we got our own slice of a cover up, right? Different suspicious crimes that aren't explained require different cover ups. It's like everyone has their own opinion about what's going on with Charlie. I have mine for sure. But the people are getting wise to this it's not adding up thing. It shouldn't be a mystery. When you have a regular crime in your town and you get a regular sheriff to come and explain the crime and show you the evidence, and you get a regular court trial about it, I don't think that's usually some grand mystery of, I think that the local sheriff is covering up the fact that this robbery happened.

It's like, No, it's just like, you've got evidence, you've got photos, it is what it is. But there's these certain moments in history where, not because everyone's wanting everything to always be this way, but because sometimes the facts don't line up. They just don't line up with what we're told at all. And Vegas is one of the most, most intensely powerful, tragic, violent, and deadly of all of them. It's one of the ones where the facts line up less than any other. I totally agree.

It's one of the most enduring- I'm actually shocked by this conversation. As someone with a passing familiarity with it, I thought, but I just didn't realize how absurd the story is. It's absurd.

The crazy part is how much there actually is right there open source. Just vagasshootingmapmap. Com that I was telling you about, just that one web page has just hours and hours and hours of stuff immediately disprove the mainstream narrative. It's just there on the internet.

That's COVID. It was all there. I mean, vaccinating people you knew got COVID. What? I remember this was happening. Not that I knew a lot of vaccinating people. I tried not to spend time with I was always uncomfortable around the vaccinated. But I did know some, and they all had COVID, and I'm like, this is clearly a lie. Then every day, you'd be, how many times? They never got over because they still have COVID. But then you'd watch on TV, safe and effective. You can't get COVID. It's like, how can they say that? I just sat like a dog with my jaw open. Like, what is this? Am I watching this? I got to ask you one last question. I've never seen anybody, it's about you. I've never seen anybody come to prominence faster ever in our world. That's led to a lot of speculation that you're a CIA officer in disguise.

Or I'm like Massad.

Yeah, Masad. I hadn't even seen that. But yeah, probably Massad, I guess. My personal explanation is just an amazing explainer and a diligent researcher, and you're really interested in what's true. Those are the three qualities that make a successful person in our world. However, it's worth asking, how the hell did you get so famous so fast? Where did you come from and how did you decide to do this?

I've told this story a few different times, but I'll never get used It's wild. It's bizarre to go from the life I had three years ago to the life I live right now. But it was a combination of luck and skill and timing, I think, as far as I can tell, in that I did study the social media landscape to try to figure out how to get into it because I wanted to get into it. At first, I thought I was going to get into it with ultra running content because I thought, you need to do something unique that's really special. And I thought, well, ultra running is cool and unique. But ultimately, that's not. That's this weird ego mindset that is not the way to do anything in life, least of all beyond the Internet. And so in doing that for about a year- Sorry, can you explain what that means? Just that there's a lot of dudes, especially, women have the It's not a problem, but it presents differently, I think. There's a lot of dudes with ego on the Internet trying to show off how freaking cool they are, and you should subscribe because they're cool.

And that is a hollow reason to follow someone, and it's a hollow way to build an audience, and it's a hollow way to build your platform, your job, and your life. Because inherently, it's a dog-eat-dog world where everyone is just out for themselves. It's a world where everyone that's doing it for those reasons is just going to try to do what's going to make them look the coolest and be the best. And inherently, you're not the coolest. No, exactly. You're not the coolest. You're just a dude.

We're all absurd, actually.

And fortunately, by the time I was... Because I had worked in kitchens, I'd worked in education and teaching, I'd traveled and done travel work. I'd done all all sorts of stuff throughout my life. And by the time in my early 30s, I was wanting to get into this, largely because of COVID, because I was like, Fuck working in kitchens. I'm done with that. And I used to be a teacher.

What is she doing in kitchens?

Line cooking, kitchen managing. I love cooking on the line. So cooking everything from breakfast cooking to pizza to fine dining.

Are you a good cook?

Yeah, yeah. Really good cook. I mean, I've got like eight or nine years of experience cooking all sorts of different genres, some really amazing coworkers and chefs. Actually? Oh, yeah, I worked at a hand thrown pizza place for a long time.

How did you stay so thin?

I have Crohn's disease. Oh, yeah. It helps. Then that's actually where the ultra running was a really interesting thing is that for me, nutrition and health and food has always, ever since I figured out what was going on with my health, nutrition, health, and food has been a huge part of my life. No choice. I'm just getting right. I had no choice, thank God, because then once I got my health right, I was like, whoa, it feels amazing to feel regular and amazing. Then I just dove into fitness and running and all these things. And so by the time, COVID had clearly woken me up to, I don't want a dead-end job, and I don't want to work in kitchens, and I don't want to live this life anymore. And I used to be a teacher. I was raised by teachers. I'm supposed to be like, my spark is for learning and for sharing learning, because teaching is not really teaching. Teaching is sharing the experience of learning. Exactly. It's sharing the spark. And I know that, and I knew that. And I knew that learning Everything happens where people pay attention, not where teachers tell people to pay attention.

Exactly. If you really want to change or inspire kids or teach kids, you got to be where they're looking, which is in here. I knew that four years ago when I had stopped my last teaching gig, I guess it was three. But I was scared to take the leap. And somewhere during COVID, eventually, it was just like, whatever I'm into, fine, let's start. I started in running content, but it was wrong, and I knew it was wrong. But I learned a lot, and I studied the industry while I was doing it. And then eventually, I shut that down. I was like, I want... Because if you're going to do this, it's going to be your day job, right? And so if my day job is to make ultra running content and be really cool and stuff, then I have to go on an adventure every week. I have to go do some new crazy athletic accomplishment every week to try to be cool on the internet, which is a horrible thing to do with your life. It turns all of your fun adventures into work. Exactly. It's a bad business model if you're just thinking about a business model.

And it's like, well, I should be doing information for a million reasons. And I flipped and switched. Right away, I had some skills that were really applicable, and I had a lot of luck along the way of people that I met and people that saw my stuff and people that enjoyed my content. But I had really good timing, too, where I started on TikTok right when the censorship wasn't too bad and they were pushing longer videos. And then I got onto X right as Diddy was happening, and then Candice found my Diddy reporting and boosted me there. And then I intentionally got onto YouTube after Trump was elected so that I wouldn't be throttled by old YouTube policies. At least that was my theory. So I've had a mixture of factors, but ultimately, I don't know, man. It's been crazy. It's been a wild ride.

Yeah. I mean, you went from anonymous to famous, like faster than- It was uncomfortable.

It's the thing where, fortunately, I don't have... I can only imagine if you had some weird fucked up life in your past, and then suddenly you are famous and you're like, Oh, gosh. Because, fortunately, I was just a hippie that ran around in the woods and had taught kids. It's like, cool, whatever. I'm perfectly proud of my life. I have no issue with my life at all. No felony record or anything. Yeah, exactly. Nothing. No criminal record, nothing crazy. But it still is a weird shift of how your privacy is. What does your family think? How do you keep your family safe from the public eye in general, too? It's just a crazy transition. It's crazy to transition from being able to say whatever I wanted when I was first starting, because the whole point was to just... I started the first TikTok account called cancel this clothing Company, as in cancel me, I'm going to say some crazy shit. I'm just a conspiracy theist. I'm just going to do tinfoil. But I was always actually just trying to do evidence-based, trying to figure out what the hell is going on out here. I knew that you need permission in yourself to go anywhere in order to figure it out.

It's like growing up on 9/11, it's like, Well, what the hell happened there? It really teaches you. You have to be willing to listen to crazy theories and digest crazy ideas. Maybe they're not true, but you got to make sure they're not. I had thought that I had started this whole thing just saying whatever I wanted, doing whatever I wanted. As I grew really, really fast, it's like, holy shit, there's a lot of weight and gravity in what we do here. We are in a really charged and important time. I try to hold both those truths at once now somehow. So important. Because you can't acquiesce to the gravity of the situation and then stiffen up and become calcified and just stay within your lines and be careful all the time. Because sometimes you have to say audacious things, and sometimes unbelievable things are what's really happening.

You have to think audacious things. Exactly. If you don't allow yourself, if you live in a mental prison, you're going to miss things.

You got to stay authentic, too. It's like if you let the scope of the task or the scope of the audience or whatever limits you and constrain you, suddenly you're not authentic. You're not doing what you're really doing. But also, you got to be careful to not be authentic in a way that you will regret, which I actually love. My favorite thing about this industry and about this world, this job, is that social media in general, and I think I'm a huge proponent that other people start making things online. Not everyone should, but there's a lot of people that are just scared to start, but they're on Twitter anonymously contributing listening to the conversation. I'm like, Dude, make a video. It's way easier for us to interact with you. It's way easier for us to understand you. The reason why I think this industry is so wonderful is because it's your whole human self is here in this because you're communicating things. You're not just communicating facts and information of a journalist. You're also communicating how to live, who are you? What's going on here? What do you believe? People choose what conversations to be a part of, but ultimately, who you are while you do this journey is immensely connected to how good you are at the job, right?

And how well you can be your message, and how well you figure out the facts. And you can go anywhere you want. I set up my platform in a way where I can go make running content if I want, or I can go to a burger joint and eat a burger and support a family-owned burger restaurant. It's like, I just launched an app that'll let me support family and founder-owned businesses and stuff. And it's like, I can do anything I want here. And The only limiting factor is if I'm whole and healthy and happy and true to myself. There's really no other job like that. Teaching is like that, and that how you show up in the classroom is like, you're doing this full human experience with other humans interfacing with them. That's one of the coolest things about teaching. In some ways, this is very similar. But making pizzas isn't like that. Delivering food isn't like that. I've done them both. Yeah, it's fun. I highly recommend that everyone do some honest, real restaurant work, blue collar work, construction work, all that stuff. It's so freaking good.

No, I was forced to do it, but just on principle, growing up. I was a pizza delivery boy. I was a factory worker.

Yeah, I had a lot of fun delivery food.

Worked to the gas station. Yeah, dishwasher. But no, I completely agree with that. Where will you be starting research next?

I am pretty dedicated to sticking I've been sticking with the Charlie thing for a while until we figured it out, but that's not your question.

Well, that is my question. I mean, so that's where your energy is focused right now.

I firmly believe that... Here's my perspective and my bias, just to qualify what I said before. I'm sure people already know this, but I believe that what happened there was not what we were told. Just like, as with Las Vegas, the moment that what you're told is not true, a million other things immediately come into play because why the fuck are you lying about it? And then why? So what is this? Because suddenly, if it's even slightly not true, we're looking at a cover-up, plus we're looking at a different perpetrator. We're looking at something else here. And so when I look at Charlie Kirk's murder, I see what looks like a cover-up, and I see that that's not true for many reasons. But then I can't square any other version of the story that is not one of the most important political moments in our time right now in terms of the political factions involved, in terms of the shifting geopolitical relationships in the world, in terms of what's going to be happening to my people in America today and now in the unity or disunity that we might experience over the next 10 years here and beyond.

When I think about what's the most important story that I can devote my time to figuring out right now to hopefully ensure a better America for my children to grow up in, it's Charlie Kirk. I don't know. I don't really believe that we're really going to ever get an answer, which is unfortunately a hallmark of these types of things. But I'm damn well going to spend my time to try. And that doesn't mean I'm going to exclude everything else. For example, I'm actually, now that you brought this Vegas shooting back up, I've gotten inspired where I want to go back and learn a shitload more about that and dig even deeper and get more familiar with that, because that will inform the other thing, and then that will inform the other thing. So I'm very much focused on what happened to Charlie Kirk and watching this trial play and watching the spider webbing branches of that play out. But I'm also trying to shift back to, I would mention this app, so I'm shifting back to focus on corporate corruption in America as well, because in a lot of ways, the big tinfoily, like 9/11 things, they're fun.

But how your food is being poisoned and how the corporations are being incentivized to basically shit all over us and take all of our money, those sorts of things affect our day-to-day lives. Private equity affects real people every day in America. That's a very much more grounded thing that I'm trying to focus on. Then the other thing is... Well, actually, I shouldn't really talk about that story yet, but I have a friend that is on a story that is a financial thing that we'll look into later.

Carol, thank you for spending all this time.

It's been a pleasure, man. I feel like we could have talked about it.

I was about to say I've been a longtime fan, but you've only been here three years, but I am a fan. I think you're brave and really interesting and thank you.

It was an honor. Thanks.