Transcript of Your Payments Are Keeping You Middle Class

This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. So excited that you're with us, 888-825. 5225 is the phone number. 888-825. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by the absolutely incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. We got a great studio audience today. I got to just say, the studio is packed.

They're lively, a lively bunch.

Yeah, they look very excited to be alive, and that's always exciting. They're here. They always give us a little extra juice, so we want to say thank you to all of you who are here. Let's get right to it. It's time to coach some people up. Carly is going to start us off in St. Louis, Missouri. Carly, how can we help today?

I recently purchased a home, well, within five years ago with my ex-boyfriend now, and we are separated. He has for a screening order against me, and I'm not sure where to go at this point. I have violated it a few times. I'm trying to get my belongings Okay. And I know I've been trying to seek a partition suit or going on a route for what my rights are. And we have a dog together. Okay. That's the most important part, really.

So you're in the relationship, you bought the house together. Are both of your names on the deed?

They are, yes.

Okay. And he's the one still living in the house, and you are the one who no longer lives in house, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

You're legally not allowed to go to the house, or you're just not allowed to go to the house when he's there?

I am not allowed. Actually, that's a really good question. I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to go to the house at all.

Listen, I'm going to ask the question that inquiring minds want to know. What did you do to get their restraining order?

Can we ask? I wasn't going to do it.

He lied. He just did a deposition, and he lied.

So you didn't He didn't do anything.

He said that you did what?

He didn't do anything. He lied. He lied. He's on a deposition, and I contacted the judge, and he lied. The problem is I'm not an attorney me. I told the attorney this. I talk to law enforcement. I've contacted them at least 10 times. They don't want to get involved, or if they do, and they're a nice police officer, they tell me what to do and say, Hey, you need to tell the judge, contact with the judge, but the judge can only do so much when I email them. I've lost my job, I've lost everything, and the only thing I have left is really my house and my dog. Really, I don't care when they close. 95% of the house, it's a very large home. I don't even care about that.

Where are you living now?

With my parents.

I'm so sorry. You have a place to be. You're not homeless, correct? No. Okay. Sweetheart, we are so sorry for you. You've got a lot going on here.

I have a lot of little trouble because of this, and I can't get a job now.

Because of the restraining order?

Because I broke it.

So this is now like off.

This is tough.

Okay. Yeah, this is tough. I'm sorry.

You can't get job because you broke the restraining order.

And he has filed property damage.

He filed property damage?

Well, personal property damage and theft.

Okay. Even though it's from my own home that I'm on the D and orange. It's insane. Sweetheart, we got to try to figure out what little we can do here today, and so I want to help. A couple of things. Did you call us today to figure out how to get out of this house?

Is that- I want to move on. I want to do something. I can't move on. I can't buy a house. It's a very expensive house.

What is the house worth?

It's worth about a million dollars.

Holy crap.

What do you two owe on it?

Like 340.

Okay. I'm just trying to take some liberty here to try to get us going forward where we can help. If you could sell it today, If you could somehow get him to agree to sell it and you got off of this loan and you started moving on and you guys came to some settlement, that would be your ideal situation on the house. Obviously, I know you want to get the dog, but I can't help with the dog. I'm trying to focus on what we can, and I'm so sorry. Is that what's your idea? Is that why you called us today?

I want to do something.

Have you talked to a lawyer?

You got to get a lawyer. I have. I am two or three lawyers. Okay.

What are they telling you? Just take a deep breath.

I don't know. Nobody knows anything. Nobody can help. I don't have any money.

Do your parents have any money?

No, they don't anymore. Everybody's just.

Let me bring this down. Let's talk about best and worst case scenario. Worst case scenario is you let this ride for a while, but since both of Both your names are on the deed, both your names are on the loan, the negative side of this is if for some reason he decides to stop paying the payment, your name is on it, right? And so it affects your credit.

Yeah, but he's not going to do that.

Yes, but you don't know that. I'm talking about the worst case scenario. He has 50 cars. Let me talk. I'm talking about the worst case scenario. You don't know what he's going to do, okay? So the worst case is anything that you guys have your names together on the debt, whether it's a car or a house, If the person who's been paying the bill stops paying the bill, it has the effect on either of you since both of your names are on it. That's the negative. The ideal scenario is, let's get our names off of this. Now, you're on a restraining order. You can't go onto the property. Let's honor that. Is there a way that you can contact him and say, I want to divvy up our assets and I want to split them. Are you open to that? And just find out, what has he said? Is he open to selling the property? Do you know that?

His attorney doesn't respond.

Okay. Not the attorney. Have you talked to him? Do you know or will he not talk to you?

I'm not allowed to contact him.

Okay.

All right.

I want to jump in. I can ask him tomorrow.

Okay. Here's what I think.

Or within the next couple of weeks.

Yeah. When you get a chance to whatever the arrangement is, because there's legalities here, find out what his sentiment is. If he's out to jack you, then, yeah, you're going to have to get a lawyer. Here's the If your lawyers aren't doing anything, fire them and get somebody who will. It sounds like you're not working with good attorneys, and so you can change that. You're overwhelmed, and you should be, but I'm here to grab you by your collar and shake you a little bit because- Please.

Can I jump in there and shake a little bit?

Yeah, shake.

Carly, I understand about the legality of the restraining order, but this idea, this notion that you can't work and make money right now, you're going to have to absolutely I reject that. That's not true. If I were you, if nothing else, you can babysit, you can walk dogs, you can do so many things, and you have the one benefit you got going for you right now is a place to be safe with mom and dad, with Very little expenses. Sweetheart, you've got to make money doing seven jobs. Quite frankly, your life is an absolute disaster. The best thing for you right now is to put all of your effort into working. You can't be in pain if you're working and busy, number one. Number two, the income, Jade, because she's got to fire her lawyer and get a legitimately decent lawyer who gets you in front of the judge, and we begin to unravel this thing. You need money so you can get a good lawyer and get in front of the judge. That's it. Those are the three things in your life right now. That's all you have time for. Do that, and you'll get out of this mess.

This is The Ramsey Show.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, Oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills in the middle.

How am I going to eat next week?

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. It's terrible. Life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

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Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, and you have joined the conversation about you here on The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225. It's hard to believe. I feel like it sounds like my dad right now. Okay, let's hear it. But where did the year go? I'm that guy who says that now.

I'm 100% 100%.

You know what I'm saying?

The fact that it's October?

Yeah. And the holidays are right around the corner. I was thinking was in the mall last weekend and ran into a Christmas decoration.

Yeah, that's early.

That's a whole other rant. It's a whole other rant. It is. But I Bring this up. You're probably wondering, where are you going with this, kid? Have your meds worn off or you got a point? You tell us. The point is, the holiday season is here, and that means everybody's budgets are going to be a little tight. We got all this pressure. We probably didn't plan for it. Some of us are in the baby steps out there that are listening and watching right now. They're going, What are we getting everybody for Christmas? It's time for a really great and relevant webinar. How about our Every Dollar free live training coming up Thursday, October 24th, 1 Eastern, 12 Central. You can register for free at ramsey solutions. Com/webinar. Click the link in the description of the podcast, or if you're on YouTube, we got a link there for you. Got over 100,000 people registered. That's bananas.

That's a lot.

How many? That's a lot of people. It's what it says.

Listen, wow.

Am I deceiving me or is this right? Over 100,000 people registered for this free live training. Oh, in the past.

Oh, okay. I was about to say these people are mining up.

This is what happens when you don't read the entire sentence and you have ADHD, folks. But it's over 100,000 people in the past. So this is a popular training. Again, it's coming up this Thursday. This is a lunch and learn. I don't know if you could do anything better with your lunchtime. So there you go. Ramsey solutions. Com/webinar this Thursday, October 24th, one Eastern 12:00 central time. All right, Columbus, Ohio is where we go now, and C. J. Is there. C. J, how can we help today?

Thank you guys for answering my call, first of all. But my question is, I bought a vehicle a couple of months back, a R. T. Durango. I love the vehicle, obviously, but I feel that it stops me from investing. I'm 21 years old, and I watch your guys' podcast relatively often. My biggest goal was, obviously, I want to start a Roth IRA, but I feel that the payment on my vehicle is like it gets in the way That's good.

What's that payment? Tell us.

625.

Yeah. Okay. I need to get my tons. Where are the tons?

Well, let's make it worse for Ken. He's going to have to go extra strength because what's your income? Every month?

I'm a union worker. It's different every month.

What's a good month and what's a bad month?

A good month is probably around 7,500 or eight grand. Okay. That's on the top end, but on the lower end, four grand. So minimum, I'm probably bringing home a thousand a month.

Okay.

Yikes. Yeah, it's definitely getting in the way, Jane. That payment's in the way.

It's 100% in the way. I'm glad that you're realizing that because we say it all the time here, The car payment is what keeps middle class, middle class. It's what keeps you broke, and it's what keeps you from getting ahead. Because that 625, let me tell you something, that's suspiciously close to what you're supposed to be investing every single month. So let's find out if you're at the point of an investing. You've been listening for a little while. We teach a series of baby steps, and investing is baby step four. Before you can invest, we talk about clearing out your debt, saving up 3-6 months of expenses. My question is, have you paid off all of your debt?

No. I have the loan on the vehicle. That's my only debt, is just the loan on the vehicle. That's it. But any other debt, yeah, it's paid off. I've watched you guys probably since I got out of high school, which obviously has only been three years. I have a decent emergency fund, and then I- How much? Because I got bored. How much? It was $8,000, which I was living at home at the time, so it was okay.

You said was.

Yeah. What's it now?

Nothing. Probably $1,000.

Well, is it nothing or is it $1,000? Because that's a big difference.

I don't have anything in it right now. All my money is in my savings. Or not my savings, I'm sorry, my checking.

Got you. Okay. So let's clarify this. Let's make it simple. Baby Step One, you need $1,000 of savings. Don't keep it in your checking account. Anytime you have savings, you want to keep it separate from where your month-to-month money goes because you don't want to, in quotes, accidentally spend it. You're going to take that $1,000, you're going to drop it in, I don't know, just a basic savings account or a high-yield savings account. Either one is fine, but you're going to get it out of your checking account. That's thing one. That money is there for an emergency. An emergency is something that is completely unexpected, completely necessary. I got to do this, and there's got to be a time constraint. I got to do this fast. If it's something that you got to do in three months, then it's not really that much of an emergency. It's got to filter. It's got to check those three boxes in order for you to pull from that fund. Now, we focus on the car. What What do you owe on the car?

Thirty-six thousand dollars.

Thirty-six thousand. If you were to sell it, what could you get?

It definitely holds negative equity right now because I just got it three, four months ago. I could probably get 27 or 28 out of it.

It dropped that much because of negative equity. Okay. And that's private sale, or are you looking at trade-in value?

That's trade-in value. I I think private sale, I might be able to push 29 or 30, but I don't think it's going to be.

Well, look it up.

Because I got it 430.

Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. Look it up on Kelly Blue Book and see exactly what you could get if you sold it on your own, private sale. That's your best option. Okay. Then either way, to your point, since you said, I want to get out of this car, if I were you, let's pretend you're actually $8,000 upside down, I'd probably go to my credit union and get a loan for it, and a little bit more so you buy something in cash. Maybe you spend five or six in cash. But at the end of the day, I'd rather have a loan for $16,000 than a loan for $36,000.

Agree? Right. That was my question. Yeah, that was my question, is how you guys would go about it, because I just feel like it weighs you down a little bit. Obviously, I have extra coming in every month still on top of the car payment. I can keep it if I wanted, but I feel like I could be so much better off if I just didn't pay on the car.

You're a smart guy.

Yeah, you're right. By the way, you do exactly what Jade said, exactly what she said. That's the answer to your question, because you're going to probably cut your payment in half, and all of a sudden, we have a much more manageable debt that we got to get rid of at 16,000. That's going to motivate you. It's going to give you a little bit of breathing room because that payment is going to come Obviously, that's the textbook answer. That's what you got to do. There's no wiggle room on this because every week, month that you delay this car keeps putting you in a bigger negative hole. This decision needs to be made today. We're trying to unload this car in the next week. Intensity.

The question is, if you did this, if you got off the phone today and did what we just told you to do, how quickly could you save up six months of expenses?

Very quickly. I have a significant other that helps me with utilities and rent. She all heard she's debt free and all that. I mean, we're obviously just dating, so funds aren't joined yet. But I do have somebody helping me with half expenses at home as well, which does help.

The other question I have is, what work are you doing?

Construction.

I don't know the rules where you are. Can you do side stuff or does the union prohibit that?

Certain ones do. Mine doesn't because I'm just a laborer.

Get after it, maybe.

But I have looked into getting my own side, get stuff like that.

Get after it.

I got to get I didn't figure it out.

No, you don't. Just get after it. You don't have to figure out anything. You have a skill, experience, you know your market, you got pretty decent on those good months. That's a really nice paycheck. But right now, you need to get out there and get that car paid off quickly and then get the six months emergency fund. I mean, this is just a function of you working really hard.

Can I tell you the opportunity cost? Here's why you're smart, because you figured out early, this 625 car payment is doing me and I need to get rid of it. If tomorrow you do what we said and you start investing that $625, tell us. By the time you're 65, you're going to have $5.9 million, which is suspiciously close to $6 million if you don't do anything else with your life except invest $625 a month. Mic drop.

You don't have to figure anything out. Jay just told you what to do.

He figured it out. That's how smart he is. I know.

But this is all about effort. Effort turns into $6 Wow. All right, quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Hey, folks, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, and Jade Warshaw is in studio with me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number for us to coach you up. She'll be leading on the budgeting and what to do with the debt calls. I'm going to lead on how to make more money, how to move up in your professional life so we can make more money, more freedom. That's the theme there. We'd love to hear from you. How about a question from the Ramsey Network app, Jade? You up for one of those?

Sounds good.

Let's do it. All right. This is from Anne. She writes, I'm engaged and my fiancée just bought an RV. You're ready for this? Hard Swallow. $240,000. But he's not sure how he's going to pay for operating it.

Yikes. What?

I'm concerned that he may take a loan out. So he'll not only have a monthly payment, but also all the expenses and upkeep that go along with owning an RV. My question is, how do I proceed? Because we plan to get married next year and we disagree on money issues. Yikes.

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big red flag.

Dude went and bought an RV.

I don't think I realized that RVs were this expensive.

Oh, man. Yeah.

That's a house. Oh, yeah. On wheels, basically. Oh, yeah.

Okay. But doesn't go up in value.

Right. Dropping like a rock. There we go. Dropping like a rock. Okay, you should be concerned. The fact that she's concerned that he's going to take a loan out makes sense. He took a loan out for the RV. So, yeah, he'll probably take a loan out for the upkeep. The biggest issue is they don't agree on the money issues. Ken, I don't know about you. I believe that money, it's one of those big overarching themes you've got to be aligned on. It's money, politics, religion, and how you see raising your kids and family, that thing.

I agree.

I agree. This is a big one. The best way, I think, to call this out is just to sit them down and say, Listen, here's what we've said our plans are together. We obviously plan to get married. I've started He's saying that you and I have different views on how we view money and how we view debt. Can you tell me a little bit more of how you see that playing out in the future? Maybe just set them up with some questions. Hey, in the future, when we want a car, what do you think What would you would do? Would we try to save up and pay cash, or do you think we would take out a loan? And just ask him, learn more about what he would say, and then you, once you've heard his response, then you come back and say, Okay, well, Here's my viewpoint. I think that if we were going to buy cars, I'd like to pay cash, and here's why. Then lay out your side and say, I just want to have a clear conversation and see, is there a way that we can get on the same page with this?

Because this feels It's not like it could cause problems down the line, and I don't want that for us. You just have to have a hard conversation.

Yeah, I agree with everything you said. I'd probably ratchet up the technique here.

Tell me. Yeah.

I'm going to go with the, he needs a text.

What do you mean?

I'm going to tell you.

You're going to text him the questions?

No, I'm going to text him and say, We need to talk.

Okay, now you know that. That strikes fear. If you didn't have bubbles in your tummy, when you receive that text, you will have bubbles.

You need bubbles. We need This is a bubbles-level conversation.

So you want to create uncomfortable going in?

He needs to know how serious it is. Okay. This is not a manipulative power play. It is a, We need to talk, it's time to define the relationship. Because she says in this question, I am really concerned that we don't see eye to eye. I think I agree with everything you said. I just would put some seriousness on it. It's not a threat.

Serious sauce.

It's not manipulation. I'm just saying it needs to be, I don't know that we should be talking about getting married. Or no, I don't know. We shouldn't be talking about getting married.

If we can't get this on point.

We've got to press pause on this because this will break us down the road. This has nothing to do with my feelings for you. I think it's that serious.

Okay.

I'm approaching this as if she were my daughter.

Okay. But let me push on this a little bit.

There we go. This is why people show up.

Let me push on this a little bit. Okay. I Who would be afraid because love goggles can make you change parts of yourself.

This is embarrassing, but give me a real quick 15 second on what love goggles means. I think I know, but I'm not sure I've ever used it.

Love goggles are, you see them and Everything's perfect because you've got these... You don't notice their back hair. You don't notice the little things that after you get married, you'll start to notice. Okay.

You think she's got love goggles? She did. She doesn't now.

No, she doesn't. But my point is, if he has love goggles on, if she makes it feel like an ultimatum, then he might change some of his answers in order to get what he wants. I'm not saying maliciously or in a diabolical way. I'm just saying that sometimes- You think it feels the pressure? Yes, because the truth is, you are your best self when you're in your dating phase. You're on your best behavior. He could be like, Oh, yeah, honey, we don't have to do that.

You think my approach, help How is my approach not...

How does she then make it serious? Because I think if she makes it... I think if she just makes it a conversation and we're talking, she's more likely to get the real answer. But if she puts the stress of, We need to talk. We need to define this relationship, then he could feel the need to be like, Well, okay, yeah, no debt. No debt. That's fine. But that may not be really where his heart is.

I know. Okay, so let's say I go with your approach. I'm not there yet. Okay, fair enough. Let's say she has that conversation and then there's no real outcome.

Then I think she can ratchet it up. I think I would start a little more casual.

You're okay with my- You're okay with my-a little more casual. If you like my plan, you just aren't ready to push that button yet.

We're on level two, and you were coming in hot on media I am high.

That's fair. Listen, I can now say, I understand that, but you know what? I was truly coming at it from-If it's your daughter. If it's my daughter and she's having this conversation, she says, Dad, what would you do? I went, Dad. I pushed the dad button, Jade, thank you for pulling me off of it a little bit.

If it was my daughter, I'd be like, Let me go talk to her.

Okay. Hello. You just took me and said, Hold my beer, and I'm going to kick the door down. All right. Very good. But you get my point. I would say this. I think you said it well, and I want to park it here. Okay. Can we park it?

Yeah, that's a good plan.

Because here's why. You nailed it on the things that caused marriages to splinter and unfortunately break. You gave a whole list. Kids, faith, politics, money. Yeah. Excuse me. To that point, we have a lot of new people that are joining this program all the time. Yes. I'm parking it here because I think it's important that we share with people why this actually happens. There are deep-seated habits that come from beliefs, the environment, on all of those issues. You could pick any of this. We're only talking money right now.

Yeah.

But when you have two completely different value sets, and you mentioned love goggles, let's just talk about money goggles. Okay. If the two sets of goggles in a way you see money are so different, it literally can cause chaos in your relationship. True or false? Is that too strong of a statement?

No, I think that's exactly right.

How does it cause chaos?

Well, think about it. One is, let's Let's filter it through the question. She is a person obviously a little bit more frugal. She sounds like she's debt averse. She sounds like she understands the value of keeping your income every month. And that might be because all of that belief is because of how she's experienced the world up until this point. Then he's the opposite. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that his beliefs are based on how he's experienced the world up until this point. When you want somebody to change what they believe based on how they've experienced the world, that is a hard fought fight. Very hard. That is a hard fought fight. Yeah.

It's their default mode.

It's their default mode. It's not just as simple as, Well, change. Well, I got to go back in and I got to figure out how do I feel about this. What does that mean about me? Because I've always operated like this because of this. It's not just a surface level request. That's right. Hey, I don't want to use debt anymore. Oh, okay, no problem. It's never that. That's why I say when it comes to these money issues, issues, we do say, Ken, sometimes it might sound a little bit flippant, get on the same page with your money. The point is, it's not a light switch that you just flip up or flip down one day. It's a journey.

I agree. I would say on all of those issues, I think all those issues should come up in premarital counseling. Can I just put that out there? But I certainly believe money ought to. Just press pause. Don't get married until you get on the same page with this stuff. I think you save yourself a ton of stress and everything else. My goodness, it's that important. Just a little relationship thing. We talk about this. Relationships and money, folks, you just cannot untie those. They are tied together, whether you like it or not. Really good stuff. All right, quick break. Don't move. More calls. They're all lined up, folks. We're going to get to them. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Colman. Jade Warshaw is in studio with me, 888-825-5225. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to coach you up. Let's go to Brandon in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Brandon How can we help today?

I just enrolled in an HSA this year, and I'm wondering if it makes sense. I had a couple of hospital visits pop up this year, and I'm anticipating the same thing next year. Even with the compounding interest, if I'm spending thousands of dollars each year, does it make sense to still hold on to the HSA?

Well, it depends. I mean, When you do know that you're going to have qualified medical expenses, it could make sense to pay for them through the HSA. In that way, you're not taxed on that money. That could make sense for you. You're thinking about it more through the lens of your actual health purchases, you're not thinking about it as an investment vehicle, which a lot of our callers do, correct?

Well, no, I am looking at it as an investment vehicle. I'd like to have it in retirement.

Oh, okay. Well, in that case, an HSA is a great idea. If you know that you don't go to the doctor much, if you're willing to have that higher deductible because maybe you know that you're not going to meet it, that could be great for you. Then, of course, if you're thinking about it as a retirement vehicle, that's great, but it would not be my first choice. It would be what I would do, maybe tertiary to a 401k or a Roth IRA, and then I'd go in and do an HSA. Have you already maxed out those other options?

I have not.

Okay.

So yeah, for that- I've just been paying for everything out of pocket so far.

Okay. If we're looking at it through the lens of strictly investing, yeah, I'm starting with a 401k. If I have it through my work, start with that. If there's no match, you start with a Roth IRA first. Now, for the use of, Hey, I want to filter some of my actual health expenses through this, then yeah, you could fund it up to the point of, yeah, I know that I'm going to spend, I don't know, $3,000 on health care this year, so I'm going to put that in there, and then I'm going to use that HSA to then pay for those expenses. You could 100% do that, but I would not overfund it to the point of investing. Does that make sense?

Yeah. It's set up weird where I have to have $2,000 in the regular HSA, and then everything above and beyond I can invest.

Yes. If you know, Hey, at this point, the $2,000 that are in there, I'm actually going to use that on health care costs this year, and this is a great funnel for it. Yeah, I'm all for that. But as far as you overfunding it to the point that you can then invest the rest, I would not do that until I've overfunded my 401k and Roth IRA. Makes sense?

Yeah. I'm giving the max up to the match for the 401k, and I'm slated to max out the Roth IRA There, Ray.

Okay, great. Good for you. If you do all three of those, you are what's known as winning at life. That's amazing. Yeah, congratulations.

Thanks for the call. Yeah, good call. By the way, speaking of winning at life, you dropped tertiary out there. I want to just give a little shout out to that. It's a great word. Tertiary? Yeah, that's a word, by the way. You figure out how to use that right. Drop that in a sentence this week. You get a good brand at work. There you go. Just call that out. Thanks for the call, I appreciate. I was impressed. Tertiary. I appreciate that. Yeah, very nice. Word of the day. Connor's up next in Boston. Connor, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Love you guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on?

All right. My wife and I just got married. We're in the process of combining our finances, and I basically have a retirement question. My question is, should we convert the money that we have in our traditional 401(k)s into Roth, or should we just, from this point forward, put money into the Roth 401(k) option?

Okay. What Baby Step are you in?

We're in Baby Step 3B. We're currently renting, and we're going to be renting for the next couple of years because we're not going to be in the city that we're in long term.

Yeah.

I mean- How much do you have? Can I ask you a quick? Yeah, go ahead. How much do you have in your 401k?

Yeah. So across my wife and my accounts, we have about 220,000 in there. Our household income is about the same.

Okay, good. Okay, good.

Very good. Typically, we would wait until baby step six to make a rollover like that, because the truth is you're going to be on the hook for some taxes associated with that, obviously. And with the goals that you have up until this point, in this case, it's saving for a down payment, it could really eat into that goal that you have. For this matter, from this point on, I would do Roth style. That's what I would invest in. But I probably would wait to roll it over until you're ready to fit the tax bill and that it's not going to put a dent in your other very important goals. Yeah, you could wait till Baby Step 6 to do that.

Okay, great.

Thank you very much. Absolutely. Love that call. They're rocking. Love hearing that. Spokane, Washington, near your birthplace?

Isn't that right? The city we're at. Hey, before we go to Spokane, let me go back to that because somebody might be like, Why do they want to do that? What's the purpose? Okay. Yeah, good call. Their 401k that they have now, they have not paid taxes on that money. What they're trying to set themselves up for is a situation that when they get into retirement, they can pull money and not have to pay taxes on it. If you do a Roth account, you're paying the taxes upfront so that when you're 59 and a half and older, you can pull money from that and you're not taxed on it. Most people would like to carry that burden now instead of waiting for later. That's the purpose of that. Whenever you attempt to move that money that you have not yet paid taxes on it, well, then you will have to pay taxes on it. Okay.

No, good explanation. I'm glad you did that. All Randy's up in Spokane, Washington. Randy, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hey, I was recently let go in my mid-fifties from an executive position making more as a 200 grand a year. Since I'm completely debt-free, everything, and I have a pretty good nest egg set aside investment-wise, I'm thinking about making a career change. But to start out, I'd be making maybe 50 a year the first couple of years. But later on, it goes up. But it's something that gets me out of the corporate stress and the hassle. I don't have to move. It's right down the road from my house that's completely paid for. Does that sound weird?

No, it doesn't sound weird, given what you just experienced. When you lose a job like that, that is a real shot. We know from psychology that it's the equivalent of losing a loved one. So number one, I'm sorry that happened to you. Number two, it's not weird for you to be thinking through this. Mike, my first question comes down to the transition phase. So financially, can you make ends meet making this pivot to the $50,000 a year deal? And then how long would you have to live in that situation?

Yeah, so I'm cash flowing it all out, and I have access to about a quarter million dollars in cash outside my 401k investments, Ross, all that. So my thought is that while I learn this I'm on this new career path, maybe I pay myself three grand a month out of that month of cash that I have. And we just a little bit more simple than what we were doing before.

Right. That's 36,000. Jade and I are keeping track of the money. Would that then get you to a place where we've got margin if you used 36,000 of the 250 that you got set aside?

That's what my spreadsheets tell me.

Now, I'm just curious, what is this new path?

Being a surveyor, a licensed surveyor.

Okay. How much would… Excuse me, is that a government Is that like a county level, state level, or is it private?

No, it's actually a little private company that they have their own little firm and run a little business.

All right. So 50,000 a year for how long before it goes up, and then what does it go up to?

Probably the first couple of years. Then as you get more experience and you're running your own jobs and everything, it gets in to 70, 80, 20 grand a year. At that point, it's just me and my wife.

You've got in your investment This situation, you started off the call saying your investment situation is good. In this situation, I'm okay with this. I just wouldn't limit myself just to the 50,000. I'd be doing some other stuff in the meantime because I really don't want to use any of that 250 I've set aside. That would be my vice. If you love it and you could make that change, then I'm okay with it. It's not my favorite idea, but not a bad idea. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we coach you to win in your life, specifically winning in your money or with your money, winning in your work and winning in your relationships. The phone number for you to get coached up today is 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Colmageade-Warshaw is with me, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225. We'll start it off in the Motor City, Detroit, Michigan. Sarah is on the line. Sarah, how can we help?

Hello?

Hi. How are you?

Hi. Good. How are you doing?

Good.

What can we help Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. I love you guys. You guys are absolutely amazing and helped me so far. The challenge I'm facing now is I have $300,000 with a debt, and I can't see a way out. I'm working three jobs, and it just doesn't seem to work. Wow.

We'll break it down for Jade here. Start off with your income through the three different jobs. Give us a range, and then walk her through your debt.

My salary position, I bring in 80. I'm sorry. My salary I bring in 80, and then I net 55 to take out tax insurance. Then I have a second job that I gross 40, but then I'm an independent contractor, so I have to take out taxes and stuff. I net about 30,000 to 35,000. Then I have another part-time job that brings in about 600 bucks a month.

Okay.

So 72 on the 85. You're somewhere in that 92, 93 range with those numbers, is that right?

Net? Yeah. I mean, that sounds amazing, but that's…

Yeah. Yeah, but you can do something with that. Dr. Jade is in today, so it's going to be okay.

I'm going to pretend like you didn't say that.

The debt doctor, no?

Okay, I'll take that. The debt doctor. You didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know where you were going. Sarah, now that I know where he's going- You can do surgery on this. I can help you. There you go. You're bringing in almost $8,000 a month, which ain't too shabby, but you've got $300,000 of debt. Walk us through this debt.

It's all student loans.

Okay. Private? Federal?

I have $12,000 of private. I will have those, hopefully, paid off by December. The rest, the 300,000 is all government.

What was it for? I'm just curious.

I went to law school.

Are we practicing law?

Yes.

That's the number one amount of money you gave us? What law are you doing?

Yeah, I do estate planning, probate stuff.

Gosh, it feels like we've got a path to be making a whole lot more than that. Am I right, or are you feeling like you're capped out, and why?

No, you hit the nail on the head. I've been looking on Indeed and stuff, and that's actually I have an average pay for where I live. It's hard to deal with because I do feel that I should earn more, but it's about average.

Is there anything keeping you tied to the Detroit area?

On family, yeah.

Okay.

All right, one other silly question, Jaden, and I'll get out of the way. I am curious with what you've done so far. Is there a pivot or some type of additional legal work that you could do that would add to your income based on your current qualification or specialization?

I got my real estate license about a year and a half ago, so that's my second job.

Yeah, I'm talking just the legal field right now.

Well, the reason why I got a different type of job is I'm really burn out practicing law, so I'm trying to expand on other things. That's why I got my real estate license to help bring in more money, but that's extremely part-time. But I really want to try to pivot out of practicing.

I get it. But I'm going to, and again, I'm about to hand it to you, Jay. No problem. But you got $300,000 in law school debt. I don't think you get the burn out yet. I think that the greatest opportunity for you to make money money is through your law, your legal work. You just don't have time to sell houses. That's a full-time deal. It's either or. It's like you go all in on selling homes, and if you do that, then there's no limit to what you can make. But I'm just going to make that point. You got to bring in some more income here because 300,000 is doable. I'm going to hand it over to Jade. Jade Walker through the process here.

Okay, so the loans, did you consolidate them or are they single? Singular. They're single. Okay, good. They're single. That's good. Okay, so as trite as this may sound, all we're doing is listing them from smallest to largest, and we're paying minimum payments on all of them. Hopefully, I don't know, are you enrolled in any of the assistance plans? Are you in save plan or anything like that?

The income-driven payment, I've been on that for about 13 years.

Okay. Is it going to run out or do you still have time to be on it?

I mean, honestly, I try to reenroll, and it takes months and months to get an answer. So I don't know. I'm in limbo right now.

Okay. What's your current payment for the lot of them?

I don't pay anything.

Okay, good. So here's what we do. The fact that your minimum payments are zero is a good thing for you right now, because that means you can put the full strength of your income on the smallest debt and knock it out fast. I wish there was a way to tell you that there was an easy button here. There's just not. And if you've listened to show for any bit of time, you know my husband and I had 280, okay? At the time, we weren't making to combined what you're making now. There's a part of this that you have to just ride that income until the debt is gone. Once you have maxed out your money for your time, and I don't know that you have yet, I agree with Ken, I think that you can do more to max out your time and get better money for it. But once Once you do hit that point, there is a point where you just go, Okay, this is what I'm making, and this is how long it's going to take. As I've said many times before, you got to ride that horse to the Old Town Road.

That's what you got to do. When it's done, it's done. No, please.

That song is going to be in my head now all day, and I'm having you to thank for that.

I'm torn because I actually make more money selling real estate in half the amount of time versus my salary position. Of course, I get that paycheck every two weeks.

Well, what does that transition look like? Because that's what I'm getting at. If you get after it and you can double, triple your income, then this is a game changer.

Key word is consistently. If you can do that consistently, then that's a great sign.

It's almost like, what would have to be true for you to change your schedule, stock some money up or something to be able to then go, All right, I'm dropping one of these jobs. My gosh, you got more jobs than you know what to do with right now. We got to create some margin time-wise, which means we got to have some margin money-wise, right, Jay? Do you track it with me? I'm tracking with you. What would it take for her to get to a place to where she can now go all in on real estate, and that's going to take a little bit of time to build that pipeline up?

Yeah. We're always looking for you to be able to replace whatever your income was at its best, right? If you can do that consistently with real estate, I say more power to you. The weird thing about real estate, though, is of its nature, it tends to be up and down.

What's the market like in Detroit area?

It's slow. I get consistent, at least for our two listings and closings, but it's a roller coaster.

To Jade's point, we got it to Jade's point. Got to factor that in. The market determines what's going on in some degree. You don't just- I'm going to tell you- have a shingle, and it's everybody wants to buy a house from.

I'm going to tell you, when you have this debt, there is something to be said for being able to count on. I know what's coming in, and I know doing with it. There's just that assembly line. Momentum. Yeah, assembly line that you can just, I'm cranking it out. I'm paying off the debt, and this is temporary. When the time comes, you'll do what you love.

I agree. Because of the market where it's at, I'm going to go with Jade's, decide what you can do and lock in on it. Then if something changes, then the timeline changes. But get that mindset for the climb. It's going to take me a while to climb this mountain, but I will get there. Appreciate the call. You got this. Stay encouraged. This is This is The Ramsey Show.

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Helping you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman alongside Jade Warshaw. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why ReFi private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally May, but they can hurt just the same. Why ReFi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Stop feeling the pain of defaulted private student loan debt. Go to whyrefi. Com/ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

That's right. Today's question comes from Dean in New Jersey. Hey, where can I Find accurate market research on the salary of my current position and positions I'm considering in my field? In making a case to my manager that I am underpaid or looking at other job opportunities in the industry. What website should I be looking at Or should I talk to others in the same role? Being respectful and coming to my boss with accurate numbers is important for me for obvious reasons.

Well, to avoid coming across like I endorse any site, I'm not going to give specific names, but this is very easy to look up. I would be looking at job sites, the well-known job sites that are all over the place. Can I say Glassdoor, Indeed? Yeah, that's where I would go. Linkedin? Yeah, just pull up the research. What you want to do, though, is be very, very specific. I love how you just jumped right into that. That was Fantastic. But what I would do in this situation is I would make sure that I'm also doing the second thing that he asked. It's yes and yes. I would absolutely be talking to people in your area, in your field, with similar skill and experience, so that you get a real-time situation. Now, here's the deal. Not all these people are going to tell you what they make.

That's what I was going to ask, Ken.

Again, you could say to them, if they want to tell you their situation, you say, Hey, I'm just curious, based on my skill and experience, what do you think is, give me a range of what you think is market-based value. Then they will talk to you about that because then you can say, Give me a range, and they may say, and I'm making this up, 60 to 75. Because what you're asking for is, give me a range, give me a low to a high.

What's the interval of that range that you're looking for? Because you don't want them to give you a $30,000 spread, right?

No, that's why I said that. That's high. You want to say, Give me a low, and then you're asking questions, and you can come up with your own number. But between the two things, the research and the feedback that you're getting, you can come up with a pretty good number. Now, the key thing that I want to talk about is not so much the number, because you can go out and get a number all you want to. But companies have budgets, and this decision is rarely made directly by your superior. It is very rare that you're just going to go to your superior and it's all in their hands. You know your situation in this case, Dean. In that case, what you're going to have to do is you can say, Okay, I want to get to this number. But realistically, can my superior get me that number? The answer is probably not, which means you've got to do as much as you can to help your superior make the case on your behalf. What you're going to do is you're going to go get real market research that is viable. You can verify it.

You go in and go, Hey, I want to get here. I understand that may or may not happen right away, but I'd really like to discuss a growth plan. I never want somebody to go in and go, I just want to get to this number. What you want to do is say, Hey, I want to talk growth, and so I want to talk about what I can do to get better. Give me some areas where I can upskill. Give me some areas where I have some blind spots.

What if you already are there?

Well, if you're already there, then you don't have to have that conversation.

I'm saying on the skills, but not on the money.

Well, in that case, again, the growth plan is the way I'd want to talk about it because now I want more responsibility.

I see. Okay.

Because you're never going, Just give me more money.

I see.

You got to give the leader a narrative.

Yes, got it.

If in fact, that I'm right, and this is my supposition that it's rare that the boss goes in and you go and they go, All right, let me crack. Let me move some numbers around. I'll get back to you tomorrow.

It doesn't happen. It doesn't work like that.

In In that case, we want to create a narrative where it shows some hunger, some humility. I want more responsibility. With more responsibility, can we measure that and those results? Then can we tie that to comp? Love it. That's different than saying, Hey, I did some market research. I'd like a raise.

Yeah, you can't come in guns of blazing.

That's my take. In this same conversation, it's just we're not putting that leader in the defensive posture because then that never works out. That's my rule of thumb. I'm With it. Back to the phones we go, 888-825-5225. Amy's on the line in San Francisco. Amy, how can we help?

Oh, hi. I called because I don't know what, I guess, my moral and My expectations are as a daughter. I'm a middle child, and I know that my parents gave my two sisters $40,000 more than me. But I also know that from past experiences, that I'll be the one that's more expected to be there for them when they get older and when my aunt gets older and when my grandma is older, too, because I'm close by. But I just can't help to feel it's unfair that I have to work harder because if I had the same amount of money, I would just be investing in it and not have to work as hard as someone that got significantly more than me.

40k more for what? Are you talking about 40K more for what? Is this inheritance? Is this college? Why was this given out?

It was for whatever we needed. My little sister used it for her down payment for our home. I used it for down payment on my studio, and then my sister, I think she invested it in stock.

But you're saying they got more money than you?

Yeah. What did you get total?

Sixty.

What did they get? Sixty, and they got 100? Yeah. You're the middle child, and you feel in some type of way.

Was this the same time?

I do. No, it was different times. That's the thing. My little sister, her historically has made more, so she able to buy a home sooner than me and my big sister. She got that money first, obviously, my mom. Then my big sister and I got 60,000 in the same time. Then I know she got another 40,000. Then I remember, I found it just a hearing conversation. Like, Oh, then I'm doing my 40,000. That stinks.

I know what's- That stinks. Did you ask?

Well, let me ask you this. When you received the monies, did your parents say, And you're going to get this, and they're going to get that? Was there any conversation from the parents, or you found out about what they got through the grapevine, basically?

I think I found out through the grapevine. She never sat us all down and said, I'm going to give you each 100,000. It was like, Oh, my little sister got her 100, and then I found out my big sister got her full. And then when I asked for- Listen, hold on.

Amy, you are a laced potato chip. You are so salty. And I get it.

First of all, I I understand. I get what you're laying down. We only have about two minutes. Because I want to address what you said. I didn't hear a direct question in there, so I want to make sure that we… I think I know where you're going with this, but what's the question?

My question is, I feel like when they grow older, I'm the one that needs to take care more of them because I live in San Francisco. No. But I need to feel that way.

That's not your problem. I I thought that's what it was because you said that earlier. I'll be quick. I want Jay to jump in. There's two things going on here. One I'm sure of, the other I think. The one I'm sure of is your parents exercise poor judgment. I don't care what their reasons are. I think they're very nice people, but they just exercise poor judgment because of how this thing has played out. Also, whatever is going on, I believe you that when you say they make you feel like you're going to have to be the one that takes care. That's the thing I'm sure of. That sucks, and that's not on you, and you got to shed that. The thing that I think is going on, and this will be my transition to hand it to Jade for her take, I think you're codependent, and I think that you've built up some of this in your mind, too. You're the one that has to take care of them because you're more responsible than the other sisters. The studio audience is agreeing with me, which tells me I might be I think you're on the money.

But you got to release both.

You got to release both. Yeah, they can put something on you or you can put something on yourself about what the future holds, but what actually happens is up to you. And your obligation is to you and your family. And if your parents had the money to give you all $240,000, then they should be able to take care of themselves. And if your sisters were gifted $100,000, they should be able to take care of themselves. And that's the truth. The rest, like Ken said, you're going to have to let it go because that resentment in your heart is sickness to your body, so you got to let it go.

Maybe watch the movie frozen tonight and sing the song from a different perspective. Might help. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman alongside the budget queen herself. Did you like that? I like the debt doctor. Jade Warshaw, the debt doctor? Okay, we can just print it. We can keep going. Are you? Okay. But speaking of which, One of the things we've been doing lately on the show, and this is so practical, we've got Philip on the line in Little Rock, Arkansas. Let's bring him on. Philip, how are you?

I'm doing well, sir. How are you doing?

Good. Are you ready for a budget breakdown with Dr. Warshaw over here? Yes, sir. All right. Take it away.

Sorry, that took that to the next level.

That's what I do.

Okay. So, Philip, let me just set it up for the audience because what we asked is for people to send us their budget because starting a budget for the first time can be tough, and you don't know all the factors to it. And so we wanted to give people a little leg up here. And so, Philip, you sent us the budget, 32 years old, Little Rock, Arkansas. You're single, yeah? It's just you? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And so what do you do for a living?

I'm an actual school teacher, band director, to be exact.

Okay. So band director, you're making 51,000 a year? Yes. But you're taking home 3,191?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. So your goals that you told me, you said, Okay, my goal is I want to save 3-6 months of expenses. I want to get out of debt, and I want to purchase a car. But it looks like there's a decent amount of debt that's standing in your way. According to my screen, you've got 69,580 $89 in all one student loan. Is that right?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. So that being said, I was able to take a look at your budget, and we're going to go through some areas where we think that you can find some savings in some ways that we think that you can get your head and your money around this student loan.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, so let's go through this. First off, did I ask you, are you investing at all? Not at the moment, no, ma'am. Okay, not investing. And can I ask you about your tax return? Because those are the areas where we're usually able to free up a little bit of money. When you get your tax refund every year, what does it look like?

Sometimes, I think a max I've got was like, 1,200 It's a good one.

I love it. Okay. So I would say there might be some room in there that if you adjust your withholding, you can get that money back in your paycheck because the idea is for you to break even. Maybe you pay $100, right? As opposed to be getting back money because that's money you could have had throughout the whole rest of your budget, $100 a month. That's something. That's the first thing I do. I'd probably check out my withholding there and make that adjustment. But let's go through this budget here, and they're going to bring it up on the screen. So your rent is looking good. $535 for rent. Electricity, fine. Internet looks good. Gas looks good. Let's look at groceries. $120 for groceries?

What are you eating Not much.

No. I do a lot of cooking because I'm dating. And so my lady, she likes to cook. So I would do a lot of cooking for her.

Yeah, but to Jade's point, what are you cooking? That's only A hundred and twenty bucks. You got some meat in the freezer?

Yes, sir.

But don't get that Dollar Store meat because that's sketchy. Okay.

Dollar Store meat? And the commercial break. I need more information on that. They sell it.

Okay. Groceries, 120. You are killing it. That's amazing. Restaurants, $40. If you really wanted to go ham on this, you would knock that back.

I don't know what that means.

It just means to really go hard.

I actually hardly eat out. When I do eat out- He's just cooking for his lady. Yeah, I do more cooking than anything.

Okay, good. Keep doing that. Phone bill, $80. Again, can't get much better than that. You're currently paying $0 on your student loans. I'm guessing you're on a save plan, something like that. I love that you're giving. Then there's $2,000 in your emergency fund over here, which is pretty good. That also shows me another thing you could do. We say $1,000 while you're in debt is enough, and so you could immediately throw that additional thousand onto your debt. My question about the student loan, did you consolidate it into one?

No, ma'am. Actually, this student loan is not my first payment is not due to December 2025. So I wanted to get ahead on the game, get a plan started so I can go ahead and get that out because I want to get that out in two years. So I want to get ahead of the game. But no, that's all one loan.

So the way to get ahead. I mean, currently with your existing income and with the fact that you've got $1,800. So if you look at the top of the budget there all the way up here, his margin is showing $1,831 of margin. I mean, you and I do the math on that and say, If you do that on the student loan, it's going to take you quite a while to pay it off, right? And so the key is we got to bring in some margin. So are you doing anything as a side hustle?

No, I'm actually been putting in, get some second jobs working so I can go in and knock this out. Okay. But no.

Well, if I were you, I suggest everyone do a side hustle. They need to be making at least $500 extra a month. But for a guy like you, if If you can find a way to bring in basically another, like you said, part-time job, if you can pull in $2,500 a month, if you can pull in $3,000 a month doing another second job, that is going to cut this down to a two-year window for you.

What do you do or what have you done? Tell us a little bit about your professional background.

Well, I recently got certified because I've been teaching school for a little minute, been on and off in different places. With Amazon, I used to work at Amazon. I originally left Amazon to go teach school, and that's where it's been from there. After college, it's been getting into the school system.

Okay. What were you doing at Amazon?

At Amazon, I was in a store section. I was in a store there. Then I moved up to learning ambassador. Okay.

What were you making?

That was, I think, what, 40, 30 Thirty-something- And you're a full-time teacher right now in the public school system? Yes, sir.

Okay. What are you making? I missed that. I'm sorry.

51,826.

Yeah. I wonder if the tutoring or… I'm just trying to give you some ideation here on… I like Jade's suggestion here. What would have to be true, or in other words, we could say this way, what could you do to make an additional couple grand a month? I'm wondering if tutoring or something some type of training, instruction. You got all this background as a teacher. I wonder if you could get some part-time hours doing some type of training or something. I would just be looking in that direction. You're an instructor, and to the extent that you could get some of that contract work, That's where you could stack up some decent money.

That makes sense. Yes, sir.

Let's look at this in terms of real numbers. I'm just trying to do some rough math over here. Right now, with your margin, $1,831 a month, over the course of the year, that's almost $22,000 that you would pay off from this debt, which means you'd be debt-free in about three years. But if you do what Ken and I are saying, if you added $2,500 to your budget, that would give you $4,331 of margin. Over the course of the year, that's $52,000. You see where I'm tracking? Yes, ma'am. This is huge. I'm not saying tomorrow you're going to wake up with $2,500 of margin, but let's start 500, $1,000, $2,000, and let's stair-step this up to get to where you want to get because suddenly, that's not a big pill to swallow anymore.

No, it's very It's very doable. Are you feeling that momentum?

Yes, sir. I've been feeling that for a minute. I've been back and forth to talk with my pastor about things. I'm like, Pastor, I'm ready. I'm ready to go. Got to get there.

I know. That's right. And what did your pastor say?

He said, Well, yeah. You're a single guy.

He said, Faith without actions is dead. Go do it.

Wow. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. That's right. I think Jade did a wonderful job. Phillip, we're very excited for you. I think this is all about intentionality, and I'd add some intensity into this. I think you could be making more money. I'm with Jade on that. That would be my number one. Let's go, Philip. Cheer. Let's go make some more money and speed this timeline up. That's right.

That's what I like about that. He's got three A tax of homework, and these are probably homeworks that apply for you, too. If you've got additional money sitting in savings that's above $1,000, you need to put it towards your debt. Number two, you need to check out your withholding. If you're getting a tax refund, that's money that could be back into your monthly cash flow. And then finally, are you side hustling? 40% of Americans are side hustling because they know we need this extra money in our budget. And so that includes you to America. Look out there and see what you can get. Try to put $500, $1,000, $2,000 back in your budget and see what it does.

And don't forget another piece of advice she just dropped in there earlier, stay away from the Dollar Store meet. I need to learn more. This is the Ramsey Show. I know you work hard for your money. And the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And EveryDollars is the budgeting app that I use personally because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little President face and telling it exactly where you want it to Just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, EveryDollars walks you through the entire budgeting journey so you always know your next right step. Download EveryDollars for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So excited that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm joined by Jade Warshaw. You learn something new every day. So learning a lot. Learning a lot on today's show. Thanks to Jade. She's getting me to be more and more cultural I'm truly relevant. Apparently, I'm very irrelevant, which I'm increasingly aware of.

That's all right, Ken.

That's what I'm here for.

That's why you're there. I need to hang out with cool people like you. So there we go. Hey, folks, time is running out to book your cabin on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. Setting sale March 22 through 29, 2025. Anybody in the lobby going on the cruise? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? Oh, yes, several people. Oh, wow. Several people. Oh, fantastic. Well, this is fun. This is not your average cruise. It's a premium Caribbean cruise. Jersey Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. Holland, America's new Staten Dames ship. Incredible restaurants, great content, including all of the Ramsey personalities. You got the pools, the hot tubs, the fitness center, and pickleball courts, where I will be the resident, whatever, cheerleader- Pickleman. Instructor. Oh, jeez. It's going to be a lot of fun. You don't want to miss this. Ramseysolutions. Com/cruise. It's going to sell out ramseysolutions. Com/cruise. We'd love to see you there. I'll tell these fine folks that are in the lobby right now, I'm going to have some cruise outfits, if you know what I'm saying. I'm going to have the top-siders, I think, the preppy sailor look, maybe a couple of times.

You're giving me Gilligan's Island.

I'll wear a Gilligan hat.

Skipper vibes.

Yeah. No, not Skipper. Gilligan's more my speed.

Really? The red shirt with the white collar?

No, I had to put that little, the bucket hat, I think I could pull.

Okay. I was about to say.

I think I could pull the bucket hat off. We'll see. It depends if the hair is long or not at that point. All right. All right. We'd love to see you on the crew. It's going to be fun. Now, Dave, on the skipper hat, that's what people want to see, him rolling around the deck with a skipper hat on. Oh, gosh.

I'm not going to say what I want to say. Let's move on.

Well, I don't think I want to now. I feel like, okay, during the break, and then I'll decide if we can bring that back. Okay. We'll run it by James as well. Annie is up in Boston, Massachusetts. Annie, how can we help?

Hi. I have an unusual question. Recently, my husband inherited some money, and we started calling it our money, but when it came time to decide where this should go, he, let's say, put his foot down and decided that it should be invested as opposed to paying down our mortgage. How much The total that would have eventually invested was about $140,000. We are on technically step six, looking to be a debt-free. Our kids are all set with their 529s, and there's money set aside elsewhere. We're contributing to our 401(k)s and our Roth.

How much do you guys have invested, or how much did you have invested? Let me stop for a second. Have you already invested the 140, or is this just something he said, This is what we're going to do?

We did it.

You already did it?

It's in there. I disagreed. I wanted to pay down the mortgage, and I'm just struggling with that. I get it.

We'll get to that in a second. Let me just ask- He made that without me.

Can you tell me what that looked like when you said he put his foot down? What did that look like? Did that look like him going and doing that without telling you?

Tell us how that happened. No, we definitely did it joint me. I'm not a fighter. I said, I'd really love to put it towards the mortgage, and he said, Well, I'd really love to invest it. Then we looked at each other and he goes, So we're investing it, right? That was that? He trumped me a little bit.

How long ago was that?

This was about two weeks ago.

All right, so real quick, before we get into that.

The accounts set up and everything's good.

Hold on one second. All right, so here's what I want to know. We'll get into that in a second because this is a relationship issue, not a money issue. But I'm just curious. How much was in the retirement accounts before you put the 140 in?

There is a separate investment account that we started. In his 401k, his retirement account, he has about 450,000. I have about 250,000. We're just at different contribution rates, and he's a little bit older than me. That's great.

How old is he and how old are you?

He is 53, and I am 46.

Okay. You guys were at about 600,000 in your separate accounts, and now we created a separate investment fund with the 140 in it. Is that correct? Correct.

That's both of our names on it.

How much is left on the house?

About 300,000.

Well, Jade, the reason I'm asking all these things is I just think all we can provide here is perspective, number one, because this is a relationship issue. You guys are in great shape. I can see. I will say this. I can see why he did what he did. I can, too. I can also see why you wanted him to put it on the house. You're almost cutting it in a half.

Financially speaking, nothing is broken because this decision was made. No, not at all. That's right. If you guys I put it towards the house, yes, that's in keeping with the baby steps, and that's what I would have advised you to do. By investing it, nothing broke. You guys are in a great situation. To Ken's point, this is a relational thing. It didn't sound malicious the way you talked about it. It felt a little dismissive. But if I might add, I think it was dismissive on both ends. I think that he dismissed you when you initially brought it up, but I also think you dismissed yourself if you didn't bring it up again more intently. Certainly. For that reason, I do think it's… But let's figure out what's at the core of both of those sides.

I agree. Maybe it's because technically, The inheritance was to him. I almost felt as if, Okay, well, his opinion should matter just a little bit more than mine.

I could see that. I could totally understand that.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I can't say.

I'm not saying that's right, but I can understand your way of thinking.

Is he opposed to paying the house off?

No, but I don't think he understands. I have a different urgency. He wants to retire in eight years, and I'm only making two extra… I sound like a snob when I say this, and I'm very sorry. I'm only making two extra payments on our mortgage every year. I feel like we could do more to pay off the mortgage so that I wouldn't have a mortgage.

I think that's the conversation. When I say that this is a relational thing, I agree with Jade. I think you got to go back to him and go, Hey... Well, first, well, two things. Number one, I think I I love that you called us, and I love that you admitted that you're resenting him right now. I think that's important that you're expressing those feelings, and I'm guessing you've expressed that to him, and I think you should. I really think you should say, Hey, I'm struggling with this, and I'm resenting you, and I don't want to. I think we got to get together, whether that's with a therapist or a pastor, or if you two have a great relationship. This is just a chill conversation. It's not a big fight because as Jade said so beautifully, nothing's broken here. Other than feelings are hurt. I think most of the feelings are on your side, and I think you got to address that. Here's what I would do. I would say, I understand what you did. I need to get this out, but I want you to understand why I'm resenting and what's What's going on underneath this.

I'm not going to resent you anymore, but I need you to know that I'm fearful. I'm fearful with this mortgage hanging over our head and not being gone eight years from now when you plan to retire. Can we please talk through this? I just need you to know why I'm feeling what I'm feeling. Jay, do you agree? I think that's the approach here.

Yeah, 100%. I think Ken covered it. Just based on the way you're talking about it, I do think that you probably stepped lightly, maybe a little too lightly. I got it. The truth is you are in a marriage, what's his is yours, and what's yours is his, and you both get to make this decision together. That is the truth. In a healthy marriage, that is the way that should work. That's a good point. Are you going anywhere, Annie?

You going anywhere. Are you going to leave him? No. Is he going to leave you? No. Okay. I know you're chuckling, but do you know why I asked that question? That's the perspective you got to take off this call. We're in this for the long haul.

Yeah, this is just a little hiccup.

We're going to be okay.

But there was no wrong answer, right?

No. No.

No. No. No by the two of you when you have that conversation.

Thank you for the call, Annie. You're a good lady. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.