Transcript of Don't Let Other People Sway Your Money Decisions

What up? What's going on, America? This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend, number one best selling author, Rachel Cruz. We're talking about your wealth, and we're talking about relationships, talking about work that you love. We're talking about everything. Today's It's a big day. It's the first day of a long weekend retreat here we have at Ramsey called Money and Marriage. The studios packed.

What an audience. It's awesome. Good to see everybody. So fun. I think we have a total of, is it 800 couples coming this weekend?

I don't remember. There's a bajillion people here. Yeah, so it'll be- It's sold out a year ago, and I'm excited about it. You and I have been off the road for a while, except doing private stuff. I'm excited to be back on stage and having a good time.

It's going to be so fun.

I'm so, so excited. Okay, let's go out to Fayetteville, North Carolina, I'm going to talk to Mara. Hey, what's up, Mara? Hi. How are you doing?

How are you guys doing?

We're doing great. We're running a scam. It's called a podcast YouTube show. It's amazing. You should get this job. It's awesome. What's up?

I was calling to get some advice on my financial situation. Basically, I'm going to try to keep it short, I'm an over-the-road truck driver. I'm an owner-operator. When I got into trucking as an owner, back I'm like 21. Everything was good as far as that was concerned. I was just living and spending and not living on a budget and just the money was just rolling in and everything was great. I thought I was doing good. Then things shifted. I had to have three surgeries in a little over a year, and that had me taking time off work and blowing through my savings. What I'm finding is a very popular thing of thinking, Oh, if I pay off all my credit cards in the same a month, that's a good thing. So that quickly went into me not being able to pay off the balances and accumulating more credit card debt and things like that. Anyway, I got into a really tough spot. I used to work at a bankruptcy law firm, and I reached out to the girls that I know that still work there, and they were telling me that, yes, they looked at my situation.

They were like, Yeah, you can absolutely file, but they're requiring, I I guess a trustee is requiring that anybody with a car note over, I think she said, six or $700, they were going to require you to surrender your car. They wouldn't let you keep it if it's higher than that number.

Hold on. Why are you thinking about declaring bankruptcy? How bad is it?

Well, because I was overwhelmed and I thought I couldn't get out of this hole. But that's the funny… Well, it's not funny. But that's the thing. You guys just started showing up on my Facebook feed. I never even searched you, but somehow, here you guys come.

We're a cult, dude. We'll find you. We'll find.

Or Jesus will. Or Jesus will.

Yeah. We've got Kool-Aid that we pass out through the internet.

Okay, Samara, real quick so we can help you because we got a few minutes. Okay, give me a list of your debts, because now you're thinking, Oh, gosh, the only way I can get out of this is bankruptcy, but now you're thinking maybe you can do it. I'm going to run it down. Okay, go.

Medical bills, like 50 grand. Okay. Credit card, 15,000.

Okay.

No mortgage. And Then the car, I owe like 36 on the car.

Okay, and that's it.

That's my debt. Because I've seen the show, my take home income is like 60,000.

Okay. Trucking slowed way, way, way down, right?

Very, very much, yes. I made the mistake of adjusting my life for how it was then instead of thinking how it could go.

It's all good. You found us on the internet We're going to change it, right?

So you have no savings. You blew through your savings just to keep in to me. Is that right? Pretty much, yeah. Okay. Are you behind on anything right now?

Yeah. I got to a place where I just stopped. I was like, I'm going to just file bankruptcy. Okay.

Has it gone into collections, the credit cards? Some of them, yeah. Okay. How many credit cards is the 15,000?

Let's just say maybe eight.

Okay. And some of them have gone to collections, not all. How's the medical debt? What's the status on that?

They have me on a payment arrangement. Are you current on that or are you behind on that one? No, I'm current on the medical bill.

Okay. Then last question. For your car, you owe 36. Do you know how much it's worth? Have you Kelly Blue booked it?

Yeah. My Kelly Blue book said it's between 25 and 29, just depending on how you sell it.

Yeah. All right, perfect. Okay, so first thing is get rid of the car. It's too much car for your income, and so you can't afford this car. Bankruptcy, I would take off the table for sure, Mara. You're not even close. You'll probably have to take a loan for the difference and add a couple of thousand more on that loan so you can get just a beater car for five grand, four grand to get you around. And that'll help. And do a private sale because hopefully, maybe you can even get 30 out of it, right? So maybe you're looking at a 10 a grand car note or 10 grand loan versus a 36. And then these credit cards, I would call each of the collection, the ones that are in collections, and I would talk to them and be honest about your situation. Just say, Hey, I don't have a ton, but I'm working extra. I'm trying to get X amount. And as you do your own math about you're going to get an extra job to help get some of this cleared up. Tell them like, Hey, I think I can get you... If one of the cards has three grand on it, just say, I can get $1,728 by this date.

Try to get a very specific number to them because some of them will settle for pennies on the dollar, some of these, and get that in writing. But I would work that credit. I would work that 15,000 down if you can, just through negotiations. Get rid of the car. And then that 50 grand that's left, that's going to be the mountain to climb. But I would stay current on it. But again, you're making 60 right now. And I would try to, man, I'd try to make 2,000 extra a I mean, I would do... Are you on the road a lot with trucking, though? What's your lifestyle situation? Yeah.

I'm literally on the road right now. I had to pull over to move the car.

Okay, yeah.

Are you over the road? Are you in town?

No, I'm over the road. I'm doing a load to Michigan right now, or North Carolina.

When you get back, do you turn around and flip it and head out again, or do you have some downtime?

Well, I'm an owner operator, so I can do how I want to.

I can do what we want. Okay. Yeah, exactly. I heard you mention this a few times. Rachel laid out a plan. We're not doing bankruptcy here, okay? We're not trying to hack our way through this, but you're going to have to change the way you live. Yeah. You're going to have to change the way you see the world. Right now, you're going to have two years of this sucks, okay? Okay. If you'll commit right now, how old are you? I'm 39. All right. I want you to write a letter today to 41-year-old you. Tell 41-year-old you what you decided to do today as a 39-year-old so that 41-year-old you could breathe.

Okay?

I'm going to give you Financial Peace University. I'm going to give you all the classes for free. I'm going to give you every dollar app for a year so you can start tracking every freaking penny. Listen, it's going to be how you spend money on the road. It's going to be how you take an extra job. You're going to work when you're tired. You're going to go, and you're going to go, you're going to go, you're going to Oh, okay? You're going to pretend these stupid credit cards don't exist because they do. You're going to call the companies like Rachel said, and you're going to stare down this dragon piece by piece by piece, okay? Yeah. Is that cool?

I got it. You got I've answered my question.

You can do it, Mara. It's going to be hard. I mean, this is a totally from a 39-year-old shifting the way you view it and handle money, and it's not going to be fine, Mara. We always say you can wander your way into debt, but you cannot wander your way out. So it's going to be an intense, probably two years. But on the other side of this, I'm like, it's going to be so hopeful for you. So we're excited.

You're going to be 41, whether you want to or not. The question is, do you want to be 41 and not owe anybody anything, or you want to be 41 and still chasing ghosts? This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. October is the season for wearing costumes and masks, but let's be honest. A lot of us hide our true selves behind a mask and costumes all the time. We We do this at work, we do this with our friends, with our families, we even do this with ourselves. I've been there multiple times in my life when I'm not being my true self, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest with yourself so you can take off the costumes and take off the mask and learn to live an authentic life. If you're considering therapy, I want you to contact Betterhelp. Betterhelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist.

Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no extra cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. Com/delonie. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz on our Money and Marriage Weekend. Let's go out to New Orleans, Louisiana, and talk to Kari. What's up, Kari? How are we doing?

Hello. Excuse me, I'm a little nervous.

Hey, I'm nervous, too. I'm not very good at this. We'll just be nervous together. What's up?

Let me tell you what's going on. My mother, who's 80 years old, she lost her husband three years ago, which is my stepdad, and they were not ever in a financial great place. He tried to get on disability a few times and never wanted to hold down a job. My mom worked underneath the table a lot, and she took care of elderly people. Well, he passed away, left her nothing, and their house is reverse mortgage, which is the worst. Fast forward, my sister moves in with her and pays it for all the utilities and everything, her and her husband, and they moved down where my mom was to be close to their grandkids. Now her husband found a job far away in South Carolina, and now my mom is left with all the utilities and stuff again. Originally, when When my stepdad passed away, she was going to move in with my sister in San Antonio, my brother close to her, or she can even move in with me. I'm moving closer to her in about five months. So this was always an option. This is what she was going to do because we knew she couldn't afford the house.

A couple of few weeks ago, I had both of my sisters on FaceTime, and they asked me if I was able to pitch in for my mom to live in her home because she really didn't want to leave her house. Me and my husband have been on your baby steps. We stopped investing. We paid off our credit card. We will pay off his car in April and then his student loans. We are so focused. We don't go out to eat, and we are so excited about it. And then we got this call. So I liberated with my husband. He's like, Kerry, it's a reverse mortgage. Why would we throw in money into it when your mom has options? And this was the plan anyway, because she cannot make it by herself. My mom is 80. She's in great shape. She works out twice a day. She's on no meds. She will live probably a long life. However, when I went back with my sisters with the reverse mortgage and throwing money away, they were like, Okay, well, what if you do it for five or six months? And my husband was still like, We can do whatever you want, Kari, but I don't think She has a good idea.

She has ways of being living, but just not in her home. The home is falling apart. So I feel bad because I'm the daughter that said no, and now I feel her rift.

Yeah.

The rift is going to- And my brother My brother who's 60 didn't get asked to pay some of the money every month because he is not great himself, but he does have a home that's paid for, that he was inherited, that she can stay, but it's just small. Of course, he's never a part of the equation because he's never had the money to help. I said no, and my husband makes great money.

Having your heart broken is real, okay? Yes. Trying to search about this fault and this person should have, and I can't believe it, all of that is a distraction from just how much it hurts to find your mom in this situation, to find you and your husband in your own personal situation, the fact that your sisters are trying to clamor and change the plant to last me. All this is just and you got permission to feel bad. My rule of thumb in these situations is always, always, always choose guilt over resentment every time. If you start paying money against If it was a plan you already have established, and like I said, if it was five months and it was going to clear my mom and my mom was going to be okay, I'd be all in. If it's five months and we're having this conversation again in five months and again in five months, then I'm making the problem worse long term.

Right. And there's no guarantee there. I don't know what happens in three or five months.

Well, none of us do, but I'm less worried about that. Here's the deal. If you pay this money, every time your sister calls you and you see her name come up on your phone, you're going to get pissed. Every time your mom texts you, you're going to get mad, and they don't deserve that. That would be because you didn't hold your boundary, not because they exist. That's resentment. That's not fair to them.

My mom would never... She doesn't even bring it up. She's never asked me for anything. She's not that type. She's letting my sisters do it. She's very sweet, gentle lady.

Yeah, but it sounds like she's also- That's why that's what makes it even worse. She's parenting from the one down position. That's the nerd word in counseling, where there's the one up position, which is when you beat your chest like dads do, and they're like, Hey, in my house. There's that. But then there's the one down, which is like, Oh, okay, I guess I just won't eat. There's some pine cones in the backyard. I'll just eat those. It's like, All right, mom, where you want to eat? It's that.

Or even worse, she is sweet and kind, and the sisters are feeling they have to... Either she's not doing anything in the situation, so the sisters are like, We have to be the parents in it.

She's like, I don't want to call. I don't want to call Carrie. Can you just call her for me? Anyway, you set your boundary.

Right. I have to stick with my husband in our plan. Like, this is my house. I have two kids, and we're never going out. We're just trying to be honing in on our- Well, you can't save somebody else when you're drowning.

So there is a realness and reality to making sure that your household is taken care of, right? If this was all reversed and you had $3 million in the bank and you're like, Golly, should we help mom out? You know what I mean? Yes. Help your mom out. We're totally different. You have consumer debt. You guys are shifting the way that you're doing it. You're making progress within your own family to be able then to help people. But right now, it doesn't make sense. Kari, do you have numbers on the house situation? I'm just curious.

Well, it's only going to be $3.50 a piece from each one of us.

Well, I mean, her- That's why- I'm asking like the more- No, but there is no mortgage because it's a reverse mortgage. So how much does she take out?

It's her insurance. Yes. It's her insurance and her utilities and so forth. And so and forth. My mom has little bitty credit card bills that I told her she needs to get out of like small things.

I'm like, Mom, you're the last one. Yeah, but with the reverse mortgage, she took money out on the equity. Do you know when they applied for their- I don't because my step...

No, because my stepfather took care of all that, and my mom is just one of the people who just signs the papers. She just goes along with it.

Because something is probably owed at some level of all of this.

Oh, for sure. Because if she leaves the house, she's going to have to just leave the house and let them get it back. That's right.

It's going to be their house. She's already signed Yes, right.

She's already signed it away. It's been done. The house is falling apart, literally.

Well, listen, Kari, it's heartbreaking when you and your husband turn a corner and you all start making plans. Yes. And someone in your family is hurting, and they don't care about what you think. They just want your money.

They just want your time. I think it's more like my sister has been feeling sorry for my mom.

The sister is coming in and rescuing.

The sister is coming in and rescuing. They see my husband graduated from college. He just got his master's, and he's getting a promotion, and they see us doing well. They think because my husband makes a certain amount and we're doing well, I think they think, Okay, well, they got it. Well, we blew money for the longest, and we're just now getting our stuff together, and now we're honing in and we have a plan.

Kari, listen, you don't owe anyone an explanation, period. You're right. You don't. The person I think you're wrestling with is you. Yes. If you've drawn a line that you don't believe in- That's all I had. Listen, if you drew a line that you don't believe in, address that. But if you believe in this, it's okay to feel guilty. It's okay to feel upset. It's okay for it to all be hard. I get that. But you don't owe anybody an explanation. A simple, Hey, guys, we're not in a place to do it right now. We just aren't. We're digging out of a huge hole. End of story. The conversation is over.

Yes. And they get to choose to- My sister, she was mad at me, and she was like, Well, I have some resentment, but I'm not going to go backwards. I haven't heard from other sisters.

I know, but, Kari, she's been mad at you your whole life, right?

True that.

Yes. She's been mad at you forever. This isn't any different. She's been mad at you since she took her Michael Jackson record from our kids or whatever. I don't know. That's just who she is. Yes. So you can't live your life trying to make her happy. You know why? Because that finish line will always move. You're right. Your mom has never asked for your financial help. She's never gone to. No.

She's never going to ask. My mom will love me unconditionally.

Do you know, Carrie, if your mom... Does she have any money? Is she really truly surviving?

Oh, absolutely. Truly, from paycheck to paycheck. Yes.

But paycheck her whole life. But paycheck to paycheck. Yes. But does she have money? She's not working.

No, she's not working.

Did her husband leave in America?

She's getting some Social Security. He has it. He was absolutely... He just drained her down even more.

It was like he was working. Okay, so the only income she's getting apart from family is Social Security. Is that correct? That's it. He didn't leave a life insurance policy or anything? No. Okay. And I'm curious, do you know the numbers of what the Social Security check is and what she needs to live off of?

I literally think it's like she makes like 13 or 14 a month.

Okay. And I would be curious for bills. And I wonder, too, Kari, if some of this... I don't know if this would be helpful. Maybe this is how I function. It's like a lot of the details aren't there, knowing exactly what is she getting in, what bills actually need to be paid, how much are the exact amounts? Some of that may help you in all of this because you could get through a carry and think like, oh.

It's $50.

Yeah, it really is not as big of a deal as my sisters are even making it out to be, right? So I think the drama is there because of the family dynamics, too. So I would get some hard numbers just for your own peace of mind, if that helps at all.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi. Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally May, but they hurt just the same. Whyrefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. So stop feeling the pain of default defaulted private student loan debt. Go to whyrefi. Com/ramsey. That's Y, the letter Y, R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey, and this may not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Toby in Wisconsin. He said, I have a question about tough conversations. I'm about to propose, and I would like to be sure that we have covered all the tough money conversations when it comes to money. What are some topics to make sure I should cover or good questions to ask?

Well, I would just say right off the bat, you're not going to cover all of anything before you're married. I thought I had it all figured out.

We went to premarital counseling. We're like, check. Done. We did it, and now we're ready.

And then it's like, I'm a quarter century in. My wife said something the other day, and I looked at her and just got quiet and I said, Who are you? I don't know you, right? But great question. Yes. I love the optimism that you're going to get all the questions done before you get married.

Okay, so on the money side, going tactical, and this is for all of you listening and watching that maybe you're in a similar situation. When you're going into, especially in marriage, knowing all the money information that you can ahead of time is required, right? So how much you make, how much your future fiancé makes, debt level, investments, if there are other accounts, credit card, retirement. I mean, anything that's out there money-wise, it should be free reign to be able to talk and know everything, because when you get married, ideally, it all comes together as one, right? So that's on the more tactical numbers side, knowing just that basic information, which a lot of couples don't.

Run a credit report because the number of times people call and they're like, He didn't know he had this other $30,000 in student loans or whatever. That's fair. Then you run a credit report and compare them. Yeah, that's fair, too. That gets everything on the table. Yes.

And then there's more of the emotional bigger questions, the value system conversation. We get a question a lot of, should I marry someone that has debt? I'm like, yes. Of course. Yes. As long as you both are in agreement on how you want to live life with money. It's not if they have debt or not. It's, Hey, do you guys want to be on the same page when it comes to the subject of debts? Talk about that. I would talk about goals in life. What are things that you want to do? One of them, maybe you want to travel the world. The other one, he wants to own a home in the next four years or whatever it is. Some of these more goal-oriented questions. Just talk about that, which hopefully those things are in the middle of other conversations that you're having about life because that is money. Money is a tool in life that you use to do the things that you want to do. So hopefully, you guys know most of that going in of what you want your life to look like.

I think underneath those things or right next to them, I think creating a rhythm that you don't have one conversation and forget it. I think I'm always talking to parents. You don't have a sex conversation. It's an ethos in your house where your kids know they can ask you any question anytime, and their bodies aren't weird. It's like that. You don't have a money conversation. Let this begin setting up a rhythm where maybe when you're engaged once a month, you're like, Hey, let's talk about our month, our week. Then you get married, you want to do that every two weeks or every week. Let's start a rhythm where we're constantly coming back to the table to have this conversation and commit to being very open-handed. What am I mean by that is this. My wife knew when we got married, I always wanted to end up in the woods. I want to buy a place in the woods where nobody can see us so that when the world catches fire, we're going to be okay. See? Prepper.

This is where John and I, we know. We know what's going to happen.

But here's the thing. After four years of being in the woods, my wife was like, she wanted this. She wanted to sell Signal, right? And she wanted it to take less than an hour to get to the grocery store.

Sheila, unbelievable.

It's ridiculous, right? And I wanted water all the time, not just when it rained, right? And so we recently We kept our place, but we moved to the city. I'd aggrieve that. But had it been locked down, it would have been a fight. But we are very open-handed about, I really want this. I'm going to try this. I want to experiment with this. If it doesn't work out, it's okay in our house to say we changed our mind, right? Yes. This is a fun experiment that I think all engaged couples should do. I call it the Friends Experiment. There were some old articles about the show Friends. When they actually went through and said, Okay, this apartment in Manhattan would cost this, this couch. They went and ran the numbers.

But Monica technically got it from her grandmother, so it was under rent control. There's reasons. They had reasons.

Yeah, but then Rachel would go work retail, right?

And then they'd go to a coffee shop at 2:00 PM, they're all hanging out.

They're all hanging out. Here's the thing. I think it'd be fun to get on a Pinterest board. If you're like me, you don't know what that is, just ask a person you're going to marry. Create a fantasy. If we could have any house anywhere and then actually run what that actually cost in real life. I think it'll be both depressing, but it will also level you back to reality. Then you all can be happy with the world you have now and maybe have this thing out there you want to go chase one day. But it keeps everybody from being like, I thought we're going to be a Tahoe family. We're a Corolla family right now. We might be a used Tahoe family one day, but we're not there yet, and it helps level everything back.

Yeah, that's good. Then I would also say, Tobi, with the money, specifically, since you asked about that, I think it can be so easy, especially if you're getting married later in life and you have your rhythm and the way you do money, to feel like the way I do it is right. And if something is different than that, then that's wrong. And learning that when you get married, there is strengths and weaknesses your spouse brings the relationship, right? And so we all have this ability, when you get married, to actually learn. So have the curiosity mindset, too, because I would say if Tobi is writing into the Ramsey show, Tobi is probably the one that's hardcore with money, I'm going to say. So again, have your values, but just know, okay, if my fiancée is different when it comes to money, that doesn't mean she's wrong. She actually can bring something to my life that's great.

On On my honeymoon, I looked over, and it's not that story, James. It's okay. On my honeymoon, I looked over and my wife was brushing her teeth, and I said these exact words.

Is that how you brush your teeth?

Hey, you're doing that wrong.

Stop it. Oh, my gosh.

Because here's why. Here's why. My wife is part-time serial killer. She took her toothbrush and put toothpaste on it and then just jabbed it directly into her mouth.

She didn't put water.

She didn't put water on it like a person who loves Jesus and babies and puppies. I looked at her and was like, Hey, you're doing this wrong. She said something along the lines of, Oh, God, this is going to be a long forever. Oh, crap. But here, it was like, Okay, there's multiple ways to brush your teeth, right? There's multiple ways to do things in life. I think what you're saying is so perfect, Rachel. You have a way, and your spouse is going to have a way, and what matters is what you all agree on moving forward. Hey, and all of this and more just turned into a pitch. I didn't even mean for it, too. But here we are. There is a money in marriage date night. It's next week, right? Next Tuesday. Yes. Next Tuesday, there's a live event hosted by me and Rachel Cruz.

Specific date is October 29th.

29th. Yes, yes, yes. If you're listening to this in any day, that's not right this second. We're going to be talking about real topics like goal setting, budgeting, working through every season of life as a team, your marriage. It is a live stream event. We have an entire second floor here full of people who are here for an in-person retreat this weekend. This will be a money in marriage event that you can have in the comfort of your own house. It's also going to be a live Q&A, and Rachel and I will answer your questions. October 29th, get your tickets at ramsey solutions. Com/events. The total is 49 bucks, and you can click the link in the description if you're listening to this on the YouTube or the podcast.

This is a great option for all of you listening that, again, you're not here in Nashville. We have another money in marriage. In February. Yeah, the Valentine's weekend in February, that we're going to do this same type of event. But if you are early on in the baby steps, if you guys have the ability to get away for two or three nights to Nashville. This is the next best thing because John and I, as we set up content and stuff for this event, want to set you guys up as a couple when you watch this to continue these conversations, right? So even a one-night event can be the starting point of like, Hey, we want to work towards something better when it comes to our money and our marriage. So make sure to check it out, you guys, again. October 29th, a live event via the internet. John and myself. Tickets are $49. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/events and hang out with us next Tuesday night.

And as always, we'll give you some questions to ask each other, and we will commit to making it weird for everybody. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Let's go out to Edmonton and talk to Alberta. Edmonton, Alberta, where they play hockey instead of the footballs, and talk to nick. What's up, nick? Hey, nick.

How's it going?

Hey, what's up, man?

Not too much. I just don't know what to do in this situation. I'm 18 I'm turning 19 in February. I have a $5,000 car payment, and I work at a light duty mechanic shop. My mom and dad don't want me to live with them anymore. They'd like me to move out of the nest. I was just wondering, would it be worth putting down payment on a home and just rent no bedrooms while living in it? Or should I get a rental area and rent with a friend or something? I don't want to screw myself over in the future with loans and stuff.

Yeah, I tell you- I know I have to pay for my schooling. When you said a $5,000 car loan, do you owe five grand on the note? Or are you paying $5,000 a month? Surely you're not.

It's $224 every month.

That's what I'm paying. But the total is five grand. The total is five grand?

Yeah, that's what I have left to pay. I had it out for 15,000, and I paid 10,000 down within a whole entire year. Okay.

Good for you, nick. How much do you make a year? How much are you making working?

That's the struggle. I don't know because while I've only been at the shop for three months and I just passed my probation, and also I get a flat rate, so I don't get paid per hour. I get paid per job. I could have an oil change. It takes 20 minutes, so I only get to pay for 20. But if it takes me 30, I'm not getting paid for the other 10. So it depends on how fast I am and how efficient I am at my job.

Okay, so the last month, what did you make? What did you bring home last month?

It's just over two grand. I think it was $2,200. Okay.

And do you see that being consistent month over month, or do you think now, since you passed the probation period, all of that, do you foresee it going up another good amount?

It should go up, I'm hoping for sure.

Yeah.

Because I know they're going to raise it up, but I don't really know how flabbergish it works too much. I'm just learning how to do it still. But yeah, I don't want to move out. I'd like to live at home and save up my money.

Why are they kicking you out?

Yeah. What's the conversation with your parents like?

Well, they're not fully kicking me out, but they're just mentioning it that I should probably think about leaving sooner or later.

That's kicking you out, bro. They're kicking you out. They're doing it slow and kind, but they're kicking you out. How come? They just want their house back? They want you to fly? Is time for you to get out of the nest? Or are you drinking too much? Why do they want you out of there?

I don't have any habits. I don't spend my money. I just save it up. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I don't do any of that. I think they're just They're wanting me to be on my own, probably for- Cool. I don't know. No, it's great. I don't know how parents are. They're great.

Yeah, I'm one. My 14-year-old rolls his eyes at me, too, man. It's just part of it.

What I would do, nick, is I would first sit down and get a timeline of what their expectations are and what's reality for you. You've turned 18, you have a job, you're not making a lot. I mean, it'll come out to 20 grand a year at your current rate after taxes and stuff. So you're not making a lot to sustain a lifestyle. So I would be curious for them. It's October, just to say, Hey, Mom and Dad, I want to have more of a clear conversation with you on your expectations because I want to be respectful. I'm an adult now, and I understand I'm 18 and I can move out. But I want to know what you all are thinking. Because that'll at least give you a timeline if they're like... Because if it's this weird period of like, Oh, no, nick, as long as it's next summer or something, then you're like, Okay, we have a date. So I would get a date with your parents. Here's when they want you to move out. And then, I mean, they get to set it. I guess it's their house. But what you're going to have to realize, nick, is that you're going to probably have to up this income.

So whether it's that you're making more in the job that you currently have or maybe getting a second job after because I do not want you buying a house. But renting is obviously the best option after moving out. And if you can get friends, yeah, and get a rental house and get a couple of bedrooms filled, and you guys can Split the rent three or four different ways. That's ideal just to lower that expense. But as of now, you're not making a ton to live on your own. I would have that conversation with them, too.

Part of turning 18, man, is not the most fun, but you need to also have this direct conversation with your employer, too. There's a mindset shift that happens when you're 17 and you get hired on and put you on probation and you get to work. The whole thing is set up as you should count your lucky stars that they picked you. But I want you to flip that around now. If you've been pulling your weight and doing good work and you're certified now, you're 18 years old, you come to the table and say, I'm happy to be here. I need some structure, meaning I need to know how much money I'm going to make. I need to know what the comp schedule is, what the comp plan is. If it's just me working 20 minutes by 20 minutes, and I don't have any input on marketing, it's not like even a barber who does a great job and they get to bring clients back. It's just you're wholly dependent. I'm not going to live that life. That's a tough life to live, 20 minutes by 20 minutes, depending on what car just rolls into the garage.

You should sit down and say, Hey, I've passed my stuff. I want to talk about what a long-term plan is because I want to be here and I appreciate the risk you took on me. I just need some guarantee on what this thing is going to look like. Then you have to make a big boy, grown-up, grown man decision now. Do I want to stay here? But at Rachel's point, dude, 20 grand a year? You can't live in Canada with that money. You can't live anywhere, right?

Yeah.

Rachel's right on, sit down with your parents and say, Hey, I'm getting the hints. Do you want me out right now? Is this three months? Can I have six months to save up so that I can put six months down on a lease or something like that? But you're in a hundred % No place to buy a house yet, man. Not until you are way more subtle and you can put down 10, 15, 20% down on a home in cash. That's after you've paid off your car, you don't owe anybody any money, and you got an emergency fund so that when the cars stop coming in the Bay, you can still pay your bills every month. You're just getting rolling, brother. But have those hard conversations with your parents and with your employer, and be good to go there. By the way, don't hate on your parents. They want to see you fly, and that conversation is a hard one to have, and they're probably trying to soft play it and be nice. If you don't have the direct conversation now, Rachel, there's going to come a day when they snap and they're like, You're out this weekend, and that will be too quick for you.

It'll just be a mess. Just be the adult here and go sit down and say, Let's map out a nexus strategy. I love that.

Yeah, for sure. To bring, I don't know, I think I would be impressed if my son came and was like, Hey, can I know what the average What you're paying for lights and water? Even knowing what it takes to run a household and ask those questions and build out a mock budget and be like, Okay, here's when I'm short a month. If I were to go rent somewhere, and let's say I got three roommates, on average, I'm looking around this, with utilities, car payment, food. This is probably what I need to live off of a month. You can start making a plan and ask your parents those questions about what they pay for utilities and that thing. I feel like that would be a very mature type planning, and I think they probably would appreciate it, maybe buy you an extra week or two to live at home.

Here's the thing. Let's say my son graduates and he just starts working at a local shop, and all of a sudden, six months after high school graduation, he's not going to college and he's still home. He's just going to work every day and sitting on the dinner table. I'm more of a direct guy, so we would have more of a direct conversation. But if he came and sat down and said, Hey, I've got a seven-month plan. Here's how much I'm making. I want to contribute 200 bucks, not a lot, but I want to contribute some to the water electricity now, and I need seven months. By seven months, I'll have this much money. Dude, I would be so proud of him. I would want to support him in every way possible and help him get launched out great.

Yeah, in situations like this, it's the lack of communication is where the messiness, I feel, always comes into play. And to know that we are more on this, or I'll say I am, I'm more on the side of fly and be free. I think that you can stay somewhere and save money and mathematically, financially, that's really wise. But for you as a person, when you're being taken care of by mom and dad for too long into your 20s, you know what I mean? In all of that, there's just something to be said about being on your own. There's a character thing there that happens. You grow up faster when you do that. So I'm more on that side. But again, under the circumstances of there are seasons for different things. People go through different events at different times, and parents can be there to help their grown children in different ways. But it's the communication. That's right. That's always going to be the number one. So nick, I would tighten that up with your parents, and that'll give you more of security of knowing.

And there's going to be a woman that drives in to get her oil changed, and she's going to say, Can I come pick you up? And you be like, Yeah, from my mom's house. You're going to want to get your own place. You're going to want to get your own place. That's the first hour of the Ramsey Show in the Books. We'll be back shortly right here on the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome, welcome. It's The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz, and we are taking your calls live Live on your relationships, your money, building wealth, work that you love. Rachel, we've been doing this for how long? I say we. Dave's been doing this for 30 years. The great and powerful Dave Ramsey and the rest of us have joined Dave and the Daveettes.

We have joined- I'd say the last seven. Yeah, for a while. Five, seven years.

Taking your calls on everything going on in your life, your money, your relationships, your work, all of it. We're taking your calls live. No net. 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Again, I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Call us from all over the planet. Let's go to Oklahoma City and talk to Violet. Violet, Violet. What's up, Oklahoma?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call, guys. Of course.

What's going on?

I just found Dave Ramsey and you guys about two weeks ago. I'm excited to get into it. But how do I even begin start working the baby steps when my husband has a cognitive decline and will continue to decline with no cure?

Tell me about it.

My husband has Huntington's disease. How far? For people who don't know, he's stage two right now, so he still can drive. I have guardianship over him. He's 55, actually, his late onset.

I'm sorry, pilot.

For people who don't know, that's like having Alzheimer's, ALS, Parkinson's, and some doctors say schizophrenia as well.

All together.

Yeah, it's tough. I'm so sorry. I'm assuming you've set up all the necessary power of attorneys, and you've got the accounts in your name and all that stuff.

Yeah, I have an account in my name. We didn't do power of attorney. He was conserved when we lived in California, and then when I moved to Oklahoma, we just got guardians. I didn't know, should I be having power of attorney as well as guardians?

I would sit down with an I had an attorney yesterday and map it out. And an estate planning attorney. I think the thing that I hear catches most people off guard that I've sat with over the years is, especially on any stage, and you got cancer, you got this challenge. You've got any thing that is progressive. They say it's progressive, and maybe you got five years. Progressive, maybe you got 10 years. Progressive, maybe you have 18 months. The challenge is one month, two months, three months goes by, and it's easy to drop your shoulders and to settle in, Okay, I've got 36 months left like this. What's not taken into an account is there comes a moment when everything falls off a cliff. If you don't have that stuff set up now, trying to deal with it when this thing starts sliding, when he needs in-home care, when he is unsafe, these things as they progress, who knows how it's going to unwind? Getting these things in writing. I would sit with an attorney, an estate planning attorney, and map out everything, whether you need a... I don't even go through all the legal stuff right now, but sit down with an attorney today or tomorrow and get that stuff squared up.

You have to stare the sunshine in the face on this when it will feel surreal that you're having this conversation because this man's been a part of your life for a long time, right?

Yes, 13 years.

Okay. I'm so sorry. What's the ongoing medical care? Like, Money-wise, do you have good insurance, or what is that looking like for you?

No. We were living in California below poverty level, and I said, I don't want to live here anymore. We got to go somewhere else. We sold everything we owned, packed up two cars with two kids, and moved to Oklahoma. How long ago was that? Started. It was stressful, but now I'm in a job where I'm making $40,000 a year, so I can only go up from there. He's not working right now. Sure.

Has he filed for SSI?

He actually doesn't qualify for SSI anymore because I make too much money. So we cut him off after a certain point. I've tried talking to him. Maybe we should do legal separation, but he doesn't want to do that, which I completely understand.

Yeah, I would appeal, and I would appeal, and I would appeal, and I would appeal again, and again, and again, and again. And your attorney can help you with that.

Yeah. He has to have so much work credits, and he just doesn't have them. So I have him set up right now. He's going through a program here. He's seeking employment for disabled adults, so that's going to help him and us as we're going through.

How old are your kids, Violet?

Twelve and nine.

Okay, So financially, real quick, because we have a couple of minutes with you. Where are you guys at? So tell me, I know you're income. Not well. And then debt-wise, how much do you guys have in debt?

Debt-wise, we're only 12,000.

Okay. What's it on? We own our cars.

We don't. Good. And that's just credit cards.

Okay. And you're using the credit cards to basically live above Poverty Line in California? Was it to sustain a level of living? Pretty much, yeah. Okay. Are you guys in a place with your income and living in Oklahoma that you're able to... Are you able to live paycheck to paycheck, or are you dipping into the credit cards monthly to keep afloat?

No, we're living paycheck to paycheck. We're making minimum payments on everything, so we're not behind on anything. But there's extra spending with somebody who he has to have this, this, and this.

Oh, for sure.

That money that can be going to this. Sure. I need money for this. I'm like, You really don't. Have the extra. So Kind of excited. He's like, Okay, I want to get out of debt. Do I just keep doing having the separate bank accounts? There's one with mine in his name and then one with his name so that I can funnel money from him when he needs it.

Everybody's got to be above board on this. Is he able to be a co-manager of the money of the household right now?

From his mental capacity state.

Yes or no. I mean, he'll be something, Oh, I want that.

Listen, the most important thing is that he has a safe place to live and that you and his kids are safe. If he has… Golly, If he is unable to- We have our four walls. Yeah, I know, but it's a couple of expenses away if you'll share an account and he just has an impulse purchase, not blaming him, but he's not well. He makes an impulse purchase. It's not his fault. Huh?

Yes.

Right. It's not his fault. That's how I look at everything.

At some point, you have to protect yourself. If he can hear that conversation, amazing. If he can't, then maybe you put $25 in his account and you are managing on the side, okay?

That's what I'm wondering to do.

That's what I want to do, and I think that's best.

I'm never about division. We're always about sharing money, but this is a very special situation.

If you've just come on to us for the last two weeks and you've binged and looked up any videos about married couples, 99% of the time we say, Combine accounts, combine accounts, combine accounts. We have a whole marriage weekend. We're going to talk about combine accounts, be on the same page. But there are reasons not to. If there's addiction involved, if there is abuse, and in this case, I would say if the other- It's cognitive capacity. Other spouse mentally cannot handle that, then for Sure. I mean, there's common sense that plays into all of this, right? That's right. I think for you to be the one that is really, and I even hate to say that, but it's terrible, but the adult in the situation. That's right. Because, sadly, with what he has, it's going to continue to progress the opposite way. Just to put you guys in a great position, if you hold on the line, Violet, Christian is going to pick up, and we want to gift you Financial Peace University in every dollar for a year and also get signed up with a financial a financial coach and have an hour session on me and John.

We'll pay for it. But to sit down with actually someone to look over some of your numbers, because I also think that there's, from a medical standpoint, things I want to make sure are covered within the trust because there's some complications there. So we'll get you an hour with a financial coach to go over some of that.

We'll be thinking about you. Call us anytime, Viola. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Hi.

How's it going?

I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance policy that I've been holding on to since 2012. Now I'm thinking, hearing Dave and you guys, I'm hearing that the hole is garbage and that I should switch the term. But I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that. I just don't really know what to do with the life insurance policy It's basically from here on out.

Okay. Have you looked into what the payout will be if you dissolve it?

So since the cash value is eight grand.

Okay.

Of your money back to you? That drives me crazy.

Yeah. And have you looked into term at all to make sure that you… I mean, are you healthy, Jessica? You could probably get another insured. Yeah. Okay.

I'm going to be 39 now. I'm going to be 40 next year, so I'm like, do I hold on to it? I have two little ones. My husband's a primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is the contingent. I'm like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I could switch it from hold a term. Of course, they said, no, you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us. I'm I don't know what the tax implications are, anything, or if it be worth it to do that, or if I should just hold on to. Because it looks like it's gotten like $1,500 in the last year.

Yeah, but it's your money.

According to the statements that- Right.

So the way- That's your- Yeah, they take your money, you overpay them, they invest that money, they take a piece of the investment return, and then they call you and you're like, Look what you have.

And it's a crappy return anyways. So, yeah. So no, I would cancel it regardless of what Whatever the fees and tax implication is. I don't know what taxes are when you cash it out. It may be income. It may be like a capital thing.

It's 8,000 bucks. It's not very much money.

Yeah. I would pay the taxes on it.

Yeah, it's only $55 a month, so I've been ignoring it for all this time. How much are you paying? Wait, I'm listening to you guys. I'm like, All right, I need to do something about this.

Yeah. How much are you paying a month for it?

Fifty-five.

Fifty-five?

Yeah. I'm a state worker. I make around 50 a year. Oh, sorry. I was really missing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, 55 bucks.

Okay, got you, got you. Okay, yeah. So what I would do- I don't want to be robbed slowly by the insurance company either. Yeah, and that's what it ends up being. When you're pairing an investment and insurance together, you're always going to get a crappy product, usually on both sides, but for sure on the investment side. So yeah, I would cancel it for sure today. Well, before you cancel it, I should say, make sure you have term in place, because I do want you to have life insurance. You guys have two little kids. So I would still have life insurance. And so you do work. Is that what you said outside the home? Yeah. Okay. So I would get a policy 10-12 times your annual income, and that's around the policy that you would need. And I would go to Xander. You can go to Xander. Com or give them a call. Xander Insurance. And they're great because they're an insurance broker, so they're going to shop all different companies to get you the best deal versus this one you call, I don't know, State Farm, and it's just State Farm or whatever. You'll be able to get all different kinds of quotes.

And so that's what I would do. And then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first. And the day that goes into place, the term policy, then I would call Whole Life, cancel it, get your eight grand to move on.

Got you. All right. And then Okay, so you said 10 to 12 months or my- Ten to twelve times- My life insurance policy.

Ten to twelve times- Oh, 10-12 times. Your annual income. That's right.

If you make 50 grand, yeah, I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand, It should not cost you very much money a year. Okay. It won't be a huge cost. By the way, this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was maybe 40 or 41- Yeah, I understand. I did the exact thing you're doing. I called Xander and got my insurance, moved over to them with term, and it's fantastic.

Got you. Okay, awesome. I just want to say also, God bless you guys, and thank you for the work that you do.

Oh, thank you so much. You're super Rachel, I hear that a lot on what's the taxes going to be. It's eight grand. Let's pay the taxes and move on with your life.

For whatever it is, yeah.

If you have $8 million, well, let's start worrying about the tax implications.

Totally, yeah. When you start looking at $55 a month, and it may feel like, Oh, that's no big deal. But over time, what it adds up, and then what you end up paying for terms, a fraction of that anyways. That's right. And always, again, the rule of thumb is your insurance and your investment should never be mixed because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, even in an index fund or Vanguard or the market, right? Yeah, in any other place, you're going to get a better rate of return. And a lot of these, too, it's that slow leak that they just continue just to take and take. And if it goes up, it just goes up. You know what I mean? It doesn't feel clean the whole life. There's some entanglements there that are not great.

There's mixed priorities there, right. Let's go out to Spokane, Washington, and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's happening?

Hi, guys. How are you?

Awesome. We're running a scam called a YouTube show on a podcast. What are you up to?

I love it. I watch you guys all the time.

Very cool. What's up?

Not much. I was just hoping to get your guys' advice. We are pretty good, but we're not as good as we could be. I feel like we're still struggling month to month, paycheck to paycheck, and How do we get ahead? How do we start invest saving? We have three kids. I homeschool. We're a one-income household, and the economy is killing us. Here's the hard truth.

You and me and your spouse and my wife and Rachel and Winston, all of us go home as a family and we make choices. That's not how it was set up for us. We all grew up and they were like, Dude, if you just go to college or just do this, then you can do this and this and this and this and this. Sometimes the dream of, We want mom to stay at home. Awesome. We want to not get into the schools. We want to homeschool kids. Cool. But we can't eat. Or we're just floating month to month to month. It's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say, Okay, the price of milk is bananas right now. The price of bananas is bananas right now, right? It is.

My two youngest are not school-age, so if I went back to work, we'd have to pay for daycare.

I don't think you're saying go back to work.

I'm not saying you go back to work. I'm saying everybody makes choices.

Elizabeth But I want to know, financially, where are you guys at? Do you guys have consumer debt?

No. We have credit cards. We don't use them. They're zero balance. We own our cars and all our vehicles.

How much does your husband make a year.

About 65. Okay.

And are you guys on a written plan, like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly here's the amount we have to spend? No. Okay. I think- No. Okay. So I think the budget is probably- I know I need to do that. Yeah, no, it's fine. I mean, I think that's going to help a lot. And if you stay on the line after this call, Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year. Because I think the budget, it's one of those places, Elizabeth, that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them, then suddenly you're like, Oh, there's our margin. There's our margin. It's not getting eaten up by that extra fast food run that we're going to go do or out to eat or whatever. It is amazing when you do plan out and stick to that plan. It's going to take about three months for you guys to get it to work. So remember that, 90 days. Give yourself a lot of grace between now and Christmas. But I want that to be your homework to say, Okay, we're going to sit down and do this.

And then out of that and finding some margin, and you'll look back on your accounts and your checking account last month and be like, Oh, my gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions we never use. When you actually start getting in the weeds of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface. And even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there, that adds up. I mean, that will get you some margin. Do you guys have an emergency fund?

Hold on a second. There you go.

That's fine. Okay.

Elizabeth, I would- I messed up the phone, too. There you go.

Do you guys have an emergency fund, Elizabeth? Do you have any savings?

We do not have a specific emergency fund. We've got a decent amount in our checking account.

Okay. So what I would do is open up a high yield savings, and I would move 3-6 months of expenses out of your checking out to that, and then that's not touched. So that's your emergency fund. If you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get that 3-6 months, do it. And then from there, I would start investing 15% of your income into retirement and start that going. That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA. You guys can up.

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here, and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fortworth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramseysolutions. Com/tour.

Welcome, welcome, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We have two amazing people staring at us on the debt-free stage.

Jared and Kaitlyn, and Kaitlyn and I are twins.

Did you all call each other and plan this? Yeah, look at this.

The exact same jumpsuit. Marshall's? No, maybe not. No. It's not. It's $30. Rachel.

No, you just got outpurchased. Outpurchased. Rachel's like, mine- Mine was probably 75 % off. Mine was $750.

No, it was not. Okay, we're here for you guys. You all, you're on the debt-free scream stage because-We're debt-free. You're debt-free. Congratulations. Where are you guys from?

Dripping Springs, Texas, about 30 minutes west of Austin.

By Austin. I know where Dipping Spring 512. I know where that is. It's beautiful.

There we go. That's awesome. Okay, how much did you guys pay off?

$158,244 in 34 months.

Oh, my gosh. In 34 months. Making what money during that time? 120 to 170. Okay, well done, you guys. Okay, so what happened 34 months ago where you were like, Okay, over two years ago, you said something's got to change. What happened?

Well, we got married, and we were thinking that we have no business trying to, and this is a personal conviction for me, but no business trying to start a family taking care of our past when we can be investing in our children's future.

That That was a goal for us, and that was something that we love our parents and all the support we've had, but we wanted to... It's really big for me to make it one step better for my kids, make it a little bit easier for them. We want to start investing before they hit the ground.

Okay, so you guys, were you just married around two years ago then?

Yeah, we got married in April of '21.

Okay, perfect. Then you're looking at this debt. What was the $150? What debt was it? Just two cars and some student loans. Okay, the student loans.

Hey, are Jared, are you from that area?

Not originally. I'm from the Fresno, California, originally.

Are you really? Yes, sir. Because you have a Texas swoon about you.

I'm the Texan.

But I mean, I'm just imagining being In your seating this tall drink of water comes in and sits down in his cowboy boots and he says, I want to invest in our children's future. I think I would have married him, too.

We actually met two-stepping.

Of course, you know what? Of course, she It's great. Golly, man. I feel like I'm getting warm in here.

Oh, man. Okay, so now that it's paid off, when you look back, what all did you do that really helped this journey? Because that's a lot of money to pay off in right at two years. We actually started the journey Monday after our wedding. Unfortunately, Jared got laid off a few weeks. How many weeks was it before? It was about eight weeks before we got married. Okay. Before we got married.

Yikes.

Yeah, but he got a new job starting Monday after, so we decided not to go on our honeymoon and put the honeymoon money aside. Wow. Put it towards debt and keep rolling. Now we're debt-free, and then we're now saving up to go on our honeymoon. On our honeymoon. However many years later.

Hold on, I thought you were rad, dude, but you got laid off and you just went and found another job? I got laid off on a Friday after that freeze that came through the state. I I started work the next Monday. When all the Texans found out they weren't connected to a grid. If you could run a chainsaw, you had plenty of work to do. My friends were sending pictures of themselves getting drinking water from snow on their grill. So we did. I just threw it in four and went back to work and landed a job pretty soon there after that and just got after it.

Wow, that's amazing, you guys.

They don't make guys like this anymore, Kaylen.

No, they don't.

Man.

Okay, so for you guys, what was the hardest part? Because I I'm saying two years. It was more like three, close to three. What were the things that were just, man, that you just hated so much in this process?

I think for me personally, and I can speak for her, although she's going to say what she wants to say. That's how she rolls.

Good man, right? It's good. You should.

I think it was adopting that mindset. Just this was not in our hand, like you said, Dr. John, but it was in our lap for me, specifically, the government promised me that I was going to have an aviation contract and two and a half years into that and a year of being on medical review, that didn't end up happening.

That's how I went from personally zero debt. I was out of state two semesters. I went from a full ride scholarship with the Navy and to to 30 grand, and then might as well finish out the degree, so 45 grand.

I think it was just for me, though, meeting her. We got to share a lot of this, and that's what's a beautiful part of marriage is I got to share some of my tenacity, and she got to share some of her patience with me. Together, adhering that to the budget and just letting God take the wheel and keeping our foots on the gas, I mean, Lord's going to get you where you need to go. Hey, I think I'm going to... Are you all coming to the Money & Marriage Retreat this weekend? We are. We're thrilled to see you. I think you need to keynote that, brother, because I can't... I mean, you just said it better than I could have said it. That's incredible.

Well, I listened to you yesterday in the vineyard, Dr. John, so I appreciate you. You have a vineyard? That's what I do. I'm a wine grape farmer.

You're like a movie character, man.

It's like a Hallmark movie character.

Good gosh. I'm in the vineyard farmer. I'm a glorified farmer.

It's a vineyard manager.

That is what it is. Can your wife get any secret magic deals at Marshall's? Yeah. Yesterday, and I, fortunately, with some of my Navy training, was able to iron this bad boy in the hotel before we got here.

Okay, look at that.

See? The only part of your story that rings a little false to me is when you said that the government made a promise and they didn't come through. They never do that. They always keep their promise. Precisely. Precisely. All right, Kaylyn, what was this like for you? What was the biggest... I imagine, Honey, I lost my job, and you saying, Okay, I'm in this. We're going to do this together. I got a new job. Yay. And it's Monday. Yeah. Walk us through that.

Well, it's actually a great story. We had my wedding dress in tow. We We're dropping his friend off at the San Antonio airport. The day after our wedding, we actually went to his new job site at a new vineyard, and my wedding dress was a dress in the back, and we were like, Here we are. Wow. Just a lot of hard work. For me, what I struggled with the most is the comparison trap that we all fall in. Through the years, that was one thing that I still held on to that was really hard. But just even getting on this stage is going to be really It's really freeing for me, so we can't wait to see what happens next. It's so great. It's a pretty big deal. How does it feel, you guys standing here completely debt free, versus almost three years ago, you're getting married, starting a new job with $150,000 in debt? What'sskipping your honeymoon. What's the contrast? Skipping your money moon. What's the contrast of you guys three years ago versus today?

It's complete freedom, liberation.So.

Good.peace..

That's the biggest part. It's the peace. It's like, Okay, something happens tomorrow. Who cares? We're good for three, six months, whatever.

So good.

Then now, whatever future kids you may be blessed with, we'll never know that struggle, right? That was the goal.

Mission accomplished. I love that. Okay, where's the honeymoon going to be? Where's the honeymoon going to be? Do you know? We're going to try to go to New Zealand and Australia at the end of the year.

Yes.

Go drink some Sauvian blanc.

Vineyard guy. Yeah, that's what he's talking about. Oh, so good, you guys. We are rooting for you. Absolutely incredible. I just thought like He's like, The notebook aren't real.

Then here's this couple right here. Jeez, Louise. You all are amazing.

I know. Incredible, incredible. It says something about you all that you're starting a brand new chapter from a relational standpoint, and then you're starting a brand new money chapter. I mean, do Doing new things all at once, I guess, may be easier. I don't know. You just dive right in and go. But, man, not a lot of people can hold that level of change because shifting your money perspective, that's a big ship to turn, especially if you had been on one path for so long like you guys had been.

It took me about 20 years of being married before I realized, Oh, yeah, my wife's different than me, and that's a good thing. You already know I'm fired up, and she's patient, and we work together that way. You can appreciate those differences instead of going to war with them every morning. Good for you guys. You all are inspirational and just amazing.

Great.

I just want to thank you all for the incredible wise advice and inputs that you put into our lives because we're able to not lead our life group, and We thank you, and you've started a generation.

I appreciate that.

You guys did it. You guys did it.

Jared and Kaitlyn from Austin, Texas, paid off... How much is it?

150,000 in 34 months, making 120 to 170. Count it down. Count it down. Let it rip.

Glory to God.

We're dead free. That's how it's done, America. You can do it, too. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show.

I think we'd all agree that it's a lot harder to run a race if you don't know where the finish line is. But nearly half of all Americans have no idea how much money they'll need to retire with dignity. If you're ready to stop hoping for the best and start planning for your future, then check out the SmartVestor program. A SmartVestor pro can teach you everything you need to know to get in the driver's seat of your own financial future. Connect with a pro at ramseysolutions. Com/smartvesta.

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All right, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. All right, listen, if you listen to The Ramsey Show or if you listen to my other show, The Dr. John Deloney Show, and especially on that show, we take a lot of calls, Rachel, about relationships, sex, intimacy, the whole thing. And so after several years of putting out questions for humans, more and more and more and more and more Here we are, the Questions for Humans, more and more and more and more and more and more and more people are asking, Hey, can we have the Intimacy Deck? Can we talk about like- Have those questions. Those conversations. After a couple of years, finally, here we are, the Questions for Humans Intimacy Deck. These are questions about, yes, about sex and intimacy, but it goes way deeper than that. Man, everyone who's written back in who's got these things, you're going to learn something unexpected. You're going to laugh. You're learn some things maybe aren't so funny, but you're going to learn and you're going to learn. You're going to build emotional intimacy, have fun. Here's the most important thing, connected quality time together. I don't know any married people, actually very few, who don't need Mom Assistance, asking some of those deeper, harder questions.

It's easy to point to the deck and be like, Hey, it's not me. It's the card. What's the answer to the card? That's it. Tell me. You are worth a marriage. It's incredible. Get Questions for Human's Intimacy Edition today. And by the way, we've made third editions, all brand new questions for couples, for friends, for parents and kids. That's all new questions. So you can get all this at ramsey solutions. Com/store. You can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

And I'll say this. We went to Chick-fil-A, and they have a ripped-off version of this, John. They have a... Yeah, and it's my kid's favorite part. Of course it is. And I was like, Oh, man, I need to get John's card to our family. So for the parenting ones, I'm going to pick up a pack.

Okay, but don't-Not that. I got confused.

Not the intimacy. No, no.

The question for human intimacy is not good for your kids.

No, I don't know. That's not the one we're going to say. That would make dinner super weird. I'm just saying the concept of the cards and asking these questions. Winston and I love doing it together. I'm saying our kids, they love it. They love asking us questions off these Chick-fil-A cards, which yours, I'm sure, a whole lot better.

I remember leaving. I had a deck of parents and kids I left in the car on accident. I was just getting them from work to the house. And Josephine, my daughter, pulled them out, and still to this day, she'll grab one out. Even if it's the same question, what I found is with kids, a year later, the answer is different. So fun. And it just makes it fun. It's so great. I love it. So ramsey solutions. Com com/store. All right, let's go out to Des Moines, Des Moines, Iowa, and talk to Kelly. What's up, Kelly? Yes. What up? How are you guys? I mean, could not be better. We're doing great. How about you?

I'm doing all right. Thank you.

If you were doing great, you wouldn't be calling us.

What's up?

I'm calling because my husband and I, I'll give you some details. Happily married for 10 years. We've been together for 18. His mom has been having some health issues the last couple of years. A couple of years ago, we downsized her to a smaller home, everything all on one level. Things have been going great until last year. We got a phone call from the bank when we were on vacation that they were concerned about the amount of money exiting her account. When we get back home, we found out that over the course of about nine months, she had given away over $150,000 in scams. Oh, shit. And there's no recourse. The money is gone. It's gone. It was fraudulent. It was all on her own doing. Yikes. And so, thankfully, the home that we downsized her to is in our name. And thank goodness, because we are pretty confident that the person scamming her would have consensured her to get a second mortgage on the property. Yeah. We've had a lot of conversations over the last year and a half about the amount of times that she has fallen and gotten hurt. And the reason that I think she even fell victim to these scams is that she's very lonely.

She has been living on her own for over 30 years. We just felt, how can we sit back and watch her be lonely and depressed and have these health issues? We felt it on our hearts to welcome her into our home. The home that we are currently in is very small. It is our pre-marriage home, and we have dramatically outgrown it. We identified and purchased a new home that we closed on last week. Part of the financial intention of all of this was that the current home we are in, we own free and clear. The home that she is in, that is in our name, we also own free and clear. We were getting a bridge loan, able to move into the new home and sell both of those properties, therefore then owning the new home completely debt-free. Right. Yeah. Since We have closed on the new home nine days ago.

A week ago. Okay.

She has started exhibiting some behaviors that I have never seen out of her in 18 years. She has become very angry, very demanding, and I hate to say, even almost entitled about the new home. It has just been giving me all sorts of red flags about, I I don't know if I can do this anymore.

How old is she, Kelly?

She will be 73 in a couple months.

Has your husband sat down and laid out the ground rules for moving into your house?

We did sit down with her two nights ago, and I was very candid about that I thought I was ready for this, that we have discussed this for about a year and a half, and all of a sudden, I'm feeling a big wave of regret, and I feel like I may have over-promised something that I don't know that I can deliver on anymore. She admitted that part of why she is recently very angry with us is because we have had to take over her finances. Sure. Because she continually was making poor choices. She's very, very angry with us that we have not allowed her to obtain a new credit or debit card. Sure.

Are you all have some financial power of attorney?

Yes, my husband does.

Okay. Does she have some diagnosis that makes that possible, or does she sign it over to you?

We had the financial power of attorney in place when we purchased the home that she is in in 2021.

I know, but she would have had to sign that over as an adult. What keeps her from going to just get her credit card?

Part of what we did She was putting the rails on things, and she was present with all of this. We froze her credit at all three credit bureaus. First, she had two credit cards. Then when we dug into it, we found she had four. Well, no, she had eight. They were all full of fraudulent charges.

Here's how it all this stills down. She's a 73-year-old woman, and she's an adult. If she's got early onset dementia, she's got some mental health challenges or cognitive decline challenges, and you all had to step in to help, then part of stepping into help is just knowing that no adult likes that help. There's just going to be some push back, very similar to when you're parenting a young child. You're doing the right thing, and it just comes with blowback.

But can I ask, does she have that, Kelly, or is she just- But it sounds like you all came in and said, If you're going to live in my house, then here's the rules, and she is really not liking Well, she has been without a debit or credit card for coming up on a year now.

So do you give her an allowance?

We're in a small enough community that the vast majority of places that she shops at still take a personal check. She's still able to get all of her groceries, car service. Okay.

So my thing, Kelly, is I don't want you guys to have this level of parenting over a 73-year-old who mentally is stable. She doesn't want your help. She's fallen for scams, but it's not because of John's point that she has some mental decline. She's a 73-year-old who doesn't make wise decisions, and there's only to a point that you guys can control that, Kelly. There's something to be said about letting her have to experience to a degree of pain. I don't know if you can control the mother-in-law for so long.

At the end of the day, it sounds like she's going to be with you regardless. And so I think sitting down and having that direct conversation, do you want to take your money back? But you're going to be living with us. You're going to be living under our rules because you don't have a budget and you keep falling for these scams, or we're going to continue to love you, and it's going to be frustrating, but we can get through this together. Thanks for the call. I know that's a mess. Hey, everybody, head over to the Ramsey Network app. If you're watching this on YouTube or podcast, the show is about to end. If you are listening on radio, just keep plugging in. Go to Ramsey Network app. You can download it now in your app store.

Hey, you're still here?

What are you doing?

You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store download the app for free.

Yep, you heard me right, for free.

Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom.

All right, I'm getting out of here.

Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.